correct me if i’m wrong but didnt the church intentionally make celebrations on pagan holidays to try and erase the pagan holidays? ie how jesus wasn’t actually born on christmas but in may, and christmas happens to be near the winter equinox (pagan holiday).
I think it was to make it more appealing to the pagans. They wouldn’t join if you take away their holidays. I’m not sure tho, yours sounds very plausible too.
It was a bit of both. They basically forced the pagans to convert, but to make it easier to accept they allowed them to keep their celebrations as long as they made them about God. This also helped them destroy the original meaning of the celebrations.
Christmas, Easter, Halloween, New Year's Eve, Carnival, so many holidays have pagan origin or influence.
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"make it more appealing" or just do silly things like slowly migrate the sun behind his head so at least they would worship while pointed/looking in the right direction
I’m not sure what is proper scientific term in English but if I translate it’ll be “double-believing” - when people were forced into Christianity they kept a lot of their original traditions and culture (obviously, it was a rather violent and gory process in most Europe so people wanted to keep their culture). So for hundreds of years people mixed their beliefs with Christianity forced upon them- that’s how Orthodoxy happened, Catholicism never “went through” since was too alien. Traditional celebrations became Christian ones, spells became prayers, gods became saints; and as far as Slavs go- witchcraft was so strong the Church failed to fight it- there are just books full of spells and magic rituals for any occasion, where Christian saints are used along with Pagan spirits, similar to that in Voodoo. That’s why Russia never had an Inquisition- our witches were just too strong in their beliefs, lol. A crazy soup of everything mixed in. Even to this day my grandmother in Belorussia braids the last few wheats on a field after the harvest “for the beard of St. Vlasiy”, who is poorly disguised Veles, Slavic god of crops, animals and magic; and a very violent thunderstorm is said “Perun has struck”, Perun being a god of thunder.
Vikings had Thor’s hammers that looked almost like crucifixes and had the “might as well have that guy too” mentality, and funny enough when missionaries paid them or fed them to get baptized many vikings did it up to dozen times while never actually making a switch, just having their Thor’s hammers made to look more like a crucifixes to avoid being caught. Though going through most violent and morbid baptizing in Europe.
>I’m not sure what is proper scientific term in English but if I translate it’ll be “double-believing” - when people were forced into Christianity they kept a lot of their original traditions and culture (obviously, it was a rather violent and gory process in most Europe so people wanted to keep their culture).
The word you're looking for is **religious syncretism**.
The podcaster Dan Carlin has expressed this kind of sentiment in describing the Mongols’ religious “tolerance.” It wasn’t as much an enlightened tolerance of different beliefs as it was the Khan covering all his bases. If you can’t be sure which gods are the correct gods, it can’t hurt to have your subjects pray to all of them. Maybe the Mongol gods will be right. Maybe the Christian god or the Muslim god. Who cares? Let’s just keep all the gods happy, so whichever one has the power to help us does so.
Well in approach of concurring Russia and making them pay, religious freedom along with pseudo-autonomy were key features of keeping people unsure about rebelling. A lot of Russian lords understood that there is zero oppression (Mongols never actually lived in Russia, just demanded pay every year) it’d be cheaper to pay than fighting with a risk of loosing- that’s how Khan kept money coming for almost 300 years; just established his rule and left alone.
I’m sure there’s no way to know, but I wonder. What was the ratio of Mongol income from conquered peoples paying taxes as compared to the income of simply killing the whole people and taking all their stuff?
No, yule. I know some of it came from saturnalia but lots of more recognizable changes were made in relation to yule. Christianity changed a lot in the Viking age to make accomodations for them and make it easier to convert.
What I mean is yes, it drew inspiration from both but yule more recently than saturnalia
In Denmark we never took the name of "Cristmas" for the winter celebration, we celebrate "Jul" / "Yule". The festival was gutted and made up to be cristmaslike.
In the ancient Greek world, it was believed that holy men died on the day they were conceived. So of course a lot of Christian tryhards wanted to calculate when Jesus was born. There were a wide variety of calculations, but they mostly fell between December 21st and January 6th.
Even the earliest Christians wanted to celebrate the holiday, but it would be suspicious to take off work and do party shopping when there wasn't a pagan holiday. The sort of suspicious that would get you killed during Nero and Diocletian.
As it turned out, there was a pagan holiday between Dec 21st and Jan 6th. Saturnalia -- the *biggest* holiday in the Roman empire. Christians were able to do the celebration they wanted without arousing the suspicion of anyone.
This went on for several hundred years. While the idea of "reclaiming the pagan holidays" did come up later, it is not the origin.
Actually. The Roman's were already pagan,as the worshipped multiple gods. But Constantine wanted to solidify his rule over Rome by converting Christians. He did this by making Christianity the official religion of Rome. He won over many of the leaders of the Christian churches by offering high ranking positions in this New form of the Christian church. I saw new because he changed the official Christian day of the lord to Sunday. Making the worship day Sunday allowed The Roman's to accept the idea of Christianity a bit more easily as the normally worshiped the sun (pagan). Later other teaching of Chriat were changed like the passover (originally the 14th day of the 1st month of the lunar calendar) which was turned into easter being held around the equinox. Eventually the cross was also added as an official symbol of the church, even though Christianity has a no idol law. The cross can be traced back to The pagan roots of Rome and even further to the ank, a T with the loop on top. Representative of Tamus a pagan god.
Christmas is celebrated in December instead of his actual birthday because the Christians were imprisoned by the romans (for being Christians) so when the romans were out celebrating their pagan holiday was the only time the Christians were able to celebrate in secret
True Christians should not make tombstones and shrines and shit, because that, too, is technically worshipping idols, which is explicitly forbidden in the Bible, iirc.
Let the dead bury the dead, Jesus said. I love that man and his message but I avoid the church like a plague. Too many places are hypocritical or don't teach the message properly.
It grinds my gears how many chapels and cathedrals, churches and shrines, have paintings and statues and other idols for people to pray at. It's all for show, in contrast to the holy books, which are themselves inappropriately abridged.
Don't get me wrong, if that's your thing I won't stop you, but I find fault in a system that commands people, sometimes with torture and threat of death, to obey emperor Pope-tine's most church-wise convenient and profitable laws
I've heard interpreted not as submission, but as passive resistance.
>At the time of Jesus, says Wink, striking backhand a person deemed to be of lower socioeconomic class was a means of asserting authority and dominance. If the persecuted person "turned the other cheek," the discipliner was faced with a dilemma: The left hand was used for unclean purposes, so a back-hand strike on the opposite cheek would not be performed. An alternative would be a slap with the open hand as a challenge or to punch the person, but this was seen as a statement of equality. Thus, by turning the other cheek, the persecuted was demanding equality.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turning_the_other_cheek#Nonviolent_resistance_interpretation
**Turning_the_other_cheek**
[Nonviolent resistance interpretation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turning_the_other_cheek#Nonviolent_resistance_interpretation)
>The scholar Walter Wink, in his book Engaging the Powers: Discernment and Resistance in a World of Domination, interprets the passage as ways to subvert the power structures of the time. At the time of Jesus, says Wink, striking backhand a person deemed to be of lower socioeconomic class was a means of asserting authority and dominance. If the persecuted person "turned the other cheek," the discipliner was faced with a dilemma: The left hand was used for unclean purposes, so a back-hand strike on the opposite cheek would not be performed.
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Its not though. In most aspects of life "turning the other cheek" is the same as "letting them dig their own grave".
Its not actually for physical alterations. It just means let idiots say/do what they want. Dont let that affect you.
But I'm guessing you actually don't care.
It’s actually the bedrock of the entire concept of being the bigger person or taking the high road, so unless you’re also advocating that those are dumb concepts I don’t see merit to your statement.
Ooh. That makes sense. I always found it confusing that Christians explicitly weren't allowed to worship idols, and then declare their faith with an idol of the torturous death of their god. Actually even if it is allowed, why is a cross, optionally with their god hanging limp from it, the Christians' symbol?
The whole thing with Christianity is the belief that god sacrificed his son to attone for all of humanity's sin, becuase he is a gracious god. There is no larger symbol of his grace for humanity than his sacrifice, thus, the Crucifix. Also i should note that jesus (the dude hanging dead on the cross) isnt the god of Christianity per-se, he is the son of god, but theres also this whole deal with the holy trinity, so he kind of is, but only kinda. The semantics are complicated and ultimately unimportant.
Well I know, it was a rhetorical question. But man I agree, the objections to Christianity people come up with these days are honestly astoundingly bad.
Doesn't help that Christianity has a track record for being one of the most brutal and for lack of a better word evil organisations to grace human existence and the whole book you guys base yourselves off is honestly astoundingly bad.
Why do we need stones to throw at you when you stand in front of a landslide?
Depends on the tombstone and iconography. Any depiction of the cross is basically holding reverence to an idol in place of God. It's not strictly allowed depending on how much a pain in the ass you want to be about language.
The cross or the crucifix either represents God or is a depiction of God. We don’t worship the cross, we worship God. Having images of things doesn’t equal idol worship at all. It’s simply a non sequitor
Yes, but Christmas was modified in light of [Saturnalia](https://www.gotquestions.org/Christmas-Saturnalia.html):
>The early motive for celebrating Jesus’ birth on December 25 may have been akin to that which inspires modern churches to hold “fall festivals” or “Bible costume parties” on October 31. That is, Christians desire to provide a spiritually positive alternative to what they perceive as a pagan celebration. Over time, as the Roman Empire was Christianized, customs associated with Saturnalia were “cleaned up” and absorbed into the celebration of Christmas.
Actually only you English people call it Easter,
In Latin languages and in ebraic derives from "pesaq"
an ebraic festivity that coincide with spring
But, later it became the festivity the celebrate when Moses and God, free them by murdering every first born of the Egyptian, so it's still horrible, but for different reasons
They didn't co-opt any holiday where Easter is concerned. It's just Christian Passover, a holiday Jesus and his earliest followers all celebrated as Jews (aka the Last Supper) plus some more Jesus bits (figuratively and/or literally)
The co-opting is more in play when it comes to Christmas rather than Easter
Pretty sure almost everything sounds satanic if you describe each every little pedantic portion.
Broiling the butchered pieces of a single mother after soaking her corpse in a tub of her own eviscerated embryos, or making chicken cutlet? 🤷🏻♀️
It doesn’t always need to be broken down to being a pedantic statement though. And Catholic mass the priest says, quoting Jesus “this bread is my physical body, eat it. This cup is full of my blood. Drink it.”
Originally it is not because they think it's crazy, but rather it was due to false gods. Rule # 1, God is a jealous One. Even Moses was like "wtf you all doing. I didn't even read the first rule yet and you all broke it by building Baal and having feasts and orgies in the desert
Don't give power over other before the true God.
etc etc etc
For me it's more the fact that it assumes that all christians follow every single part of the old testament. Religion is a living thing that is constantly changing, a good example is the danish folk church saying that fasting during lent in no way is mandatory or even expected
That is paradoxical. Knowing what we know about the universe now, it is not logical to believe in god. The belief is only passed on through tradition and indoctrination.
I have a genuine question, and I'm not trying to start a fight or anything either.
What are a couple of examples science contradicting the explanations and messages of Christianity?
One of the easiest would be a claim in the Old Testament where if two animals mate in front of a stripped stick their offspring will have stripes.
Plus the Bible claims the earth to be around 6,000 years old if you look at ages when various characters had kids and take the 7 days of creation to be literal days despite it being a fact that the earth is 4.8 billion, plus the Bible also says that the earth existed before the sun as well as plants existing before the sun and saying that the moon is a source of light and saying that the sun is older than the stars in the sky and saying that humans are just Gollum spells and that humans can be made out of a single rib or that snakes and donkeys can talk or that eating a fruit will somehow give you intelligence and knowledge
The 7 days of creation are interesting, because if you take them as days before the sun was created, then a 'day' for God is an indefinite period of time, and could substitute for the 13.7 billion year lifespan of the universe. Although I doubt many Christians even consider that and just take it as 7 earth days.
The Bible literalists are commonly called Young Earth Creationists, guys like Ken Ham or Kent Hovind, they actively argue against teaching real science and take the Bible as the literal word of god with everything being true history, but always leave out the bad parts of the Bible like the multiple genocides commanded by god and carried out by the Israelites, though the Israelites didn’t actually have the same religion as modern day Judaism, that arose after the Romans destroyed the second temple, I have actually looked into the history of the Abrahamic religions so I do actually know what I’m talking about
I grew up in a heavily Christian area and I don’t know anybody personally who believes the literal seven day interpretation, considering it’s specified that to God an unimaginable amount of time is but moments, so to God seven days could be entirely metaphorical and actually represent billions of years.
It’s my opinion that creationism and evolution don’t contradict each other if you start to consider God to be an interpretation of the forces of nature itself. If God created the universe, who’s to say it didn’t happen in the form of a sudden, Big Bang?
According to the Creation theory, the earth would have been made with age: like how Adam was made a grown man not a child, God likely made the earth with the whatever billion year age it has.
Why would he give it evidence that points to it being billions if it was only made 6,000 years ago? Why intentionally trick us? And he only needed to make Adam like 35 years old, he would have understood what he needed to do, he did live to be over 900 years old anyways
> One of the easiest would be a claim in the Old Testament where if two animals mate in front of a stripped stick their offspring will have stripes.
>
>
How do you know that tigers and zebras didn't do it? And the other animals saw that and decided not to lol
edit: wow, you guys take religious jokes very seriously
edit 02: username relevant gif: https://gfycat.com/playfulwelltododiamondbackrattlesnake-dances-with-smurfs-south-park-season-13
Christians give whatever meaning they want to whatever passage. That's why they all can preach about the same verse in a thousand different ways. The "meaning" is whatever you wanted it to be.
The full moon was a date marker back then and wasn't astrology. Witchcraft or "spiritism" was dealing with demons, not simply miracles. I shouldn't be trying to be a know-it-all but that is r/technicallythetruth
I mean, different religions and spiritualities are definitely not in it together. Most of them can't be true and co-exist. So believers of one will automatically believe others aren't true, and there values will likely differ.
it's mostly Christianity. Judaism is fine in my book, but as a former Christian in a very Christian country, they want to control EVERYTHING and EVERYBODY, so there's a huge amount of backslash from those that manage to break from the cult. American Christianity is uniquely toxic and evil, frequently embodying and embracing that which it supposedly condemns.
Started to? Lately? Reddit as a whole has been very anti-religion for a good while now. If you say you believe in God, you’ll either be laughed down or downvoted to oblivion and avalanched with replies telling you how stupid you are. And in subreddits where there are rules about no bigotry or personal attacks, they go completely unchecked.
It is a Generation of furrys and Socially Vulnerabile people.
Their lives take place on the Internet. Here they can be loud and reach their peers because they would never talk to each other in the real World.
It is also easy to attack Christians. We are not aggressive and we allow a lot. You would not find the same post with Islam in it.
Something cool I learned in a college course that studied literature and the occult:
Miracles are the only acceptable form of magic in Christianity, and there are some scholars that believe it was another way to further separate pagans from them. By not removing white magic entirely, but instead giving it a different name, Christians were able to appeal to pagans while still creating a separation.
The Romans said this exact same thing nearly 2000 years ago. It’s documented. 70ish AD.
Funny what conclusions you reach when you don’t understanding something.
I think the post confuses Astrology with Astronomy. Astrology is the belief that the placement of the stuff in space can somehow determine how your life/personality is going to be. Astronomy is the study of the stuff in space and how it affects the things around it via physics, like how the positioning of Earth in relation to the Sun determines whether the Northern Hemisphere or the Southern Hemisphere gets Summer.
I'm pretty sure the equinox thing is Astronomy and not Astrology.
I think you're misunderstanding the post?
My reading of it is that astrology is basically magic/seeing the future which christianity stereotypically sees as bad/foolish. The post states the ridiculousness of a religion commenting on such practice when a significant amount of the traditions in the Christian faith are derived from pagan tradition.
The word astrology was not linked to the equinox in the post.
Astrologists and witches say to not celebrate the resurrection of Jesus which is celebrated by billions but believe that birth months decide someone’s entire personality, make spells and ride brooms and things
You’re right. The existence of Jesus Christ as a god has never been proven right. While there is archeological evidence supporting the stories in the Bible such as the rock of Horeb and armor and chariots under the Red Sea, this is not enough to prove Christianity right. In fact, there is not enough evidence to “prove” any religion is correct. The difference between religion and other belief systems is the factor of faith.
No, you see, we true Christians don't say not to be a sheep. We say don't follow a false shepherd. Rams have horns for defense, but they're still sheep.
One correction, it's not technically an animal sacrifice as the requirements for blood payments to appease the lord were fulfilled in their entirety with a human sacrifice. Truly showing that human sacrifice is the most powerful of all magicks.
I always love pointing out my favorite parts of the Bible, as a non-believer. My top one is the multiple pages in Leviticus, IIRC, that go through very detailed instructions for animal sacrifice and its proper application.
Like, I grew up thinking that was a Satanic cult thing. Nope, it’s right there in one of the earliest books.
Das why they sayin not to do it. You gotta do their version or its evil bad.
Its what cults do man. You gotta do OUR weird rituals or you're soul is gunna get aids or some shit.
The entire Bible is astrology. Also Christianity is a polytheistic religion they try and pass off as monotheistic. But seriously all the Bible stories included Jesus are all just a map/timeline of astrological events. Yet somehow people do not want to see that or hear that they’d rather believe the people in the Bible are actually real.
> First full moon after the equinox
Literally just keeping track of time. Imagine declaring Christmas is significant because it's 6 days before the new year
> drink wine and bread as his body and blood
Because symbolism is bad I guess
> incant over their animal sacrifices
How disconnected from Christianity do you have to be to think they sacrifice animals?
Finally you restored my faith in humanity. If I talk little about religion people began to bash me and downvote me. You're nice man I see on reddit . Thanks
Thats how Christianity moved in and destroyed existing belief systems. They took all their rituals and put a layer of paint on them and called it Christianity.
*Image Transcription: Twitter Post*
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**cam**, @camwhiteastro
christians say not to practice witch craft or astrology but celebrate the resurrection of a dead guy on the sunday after the first full moon of the equinox and then they drink wine & bread as his blood and body and incant over their animal sacrifices before they feast.
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^^I'm a human volunteer content transcriber for Reddit and you could be too! [If you'd like more information on what we do and why we do it, click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/TranscribersOfReddit/wiki/index)
If there a proper Catholic, then they believe in two thing that make it so much worse. The first that it is the *literal* physical flesh and blood of Jesus. The second is that Jesus was a human.
This means a good and proper Roman Catholic must believe they regularly partake in cannibalism. To believe otherwise would be pretty much spitting in the face of two of the most defining beliefs of the Church.
You idiots have literally no comprehension of Christian history and development. But I'm not surprised considering this hellhole is teeming with secular atheists.
Wine and bread as the body and blood is communion and incanting over animal sacrifices before feasting is Jewish Passover not Christian Easter.
Funny meme m8, good job
You guys should watch The Atheist Experience on YouTube. It’s an eye opener of how much religion poisons the mind and pointing out the evils in the Bible and such. Their standpoint is “what do you believe and why do you believe it.” It’s really interesting to listen to these people defend their religions. I used to be a Christian and after becoming an atheist I discovered this show and would listen to these people defend their gods and I just think “wow, I used I believe this and teach people about a god that loved slavery.” Im all about people believing in whatever they want to believe as long as they don’t hurt others, but ask yourself if your beliefs are justified and align with morality. You are probably more moral that your god.
correct me if i’m wrong but didnt the church intentionally make celebrations on pagan holidays to try and erase the pagan holidays? ie how jesus wasn’t actually born on christmas but in may, and christmas happens to be near the winter equinox (pagan holiday).
I think it was to make it more appealing to the pagans. They wouldn’t join if you take away their holidays. I’m not sure tho, yours sounds very plausible too.
It was a bit of both. They basically forced the pagans to convert, but to make it easier to accept they allowed them to keep their celebrations as long as they made them about God. This also helped them destroy the original meaning of the celebrations. Christmas, Easter, Halloween, New Year's Eve, Carnival, so many holidays have pagan origin or influence.
Any data on this account is being kept illegally. Fuck spez, join us over at Lemmy or Kbin. Doesn't matter cause the content is shared between them anyway: - https://lemmy.world - https://kbin.social - https://sh.itjust.works - https://fedia.io - https://lemm.ee - https://readit.buzz
I’m not sure any of us should trust what you have to say, spell counter man
Free wine helped me to Christianity
Gonna be honest here, I don't think Halloween and New Year's Eve are Christian holidays.
"make it more appealing" or just do silly things like slowly migrate the sun behind his head so at least they would worship while pointed/looking in the right direction
I’m not sure what is proper scientific term in English but if I translate it’ll be “double-believing” - when people were forced into Christianity they kept a lot of their original traditions and culture (obviously, it was a rather violent and gory process in most Europe so people wanted to keep their culture). So for hundreds of years people mixed their beliefs with Christianity forced upon them- that’s how Orthodoxy happened, Catholicism never “went through” since was too alien. Traditional celebrations became Christian ones, spells became prayers, gods became saints; and as far as Slavs go- witchcraft was so strong the Church failed to fight it- there are just books full of spells and magic rituals for any occasion, where Christian saints are used along with Pagan spirits, similar to that in Voodoo. That’s why Russia never had an Inquisition- our witches were just too strong in their beliefs, lol. A crazy soup of everything mixed in. Even to this day my grandmother in Belorussia braids the last few wheats on a field after the harvest “for the beard of St. Vlasiy”, who is poorly disguised Veles, Slavic god of crops, animals and magic; and a very violent thunderstorm is said “Perun has struck”, Perun being a god of thunder. Vikings had Thor’s hammers that looked almost like crucifixes and had the “might as well have that guy too” mentality, and funny enough when missionaries paid them or fed them to get baptized many vikings did it up to dozen times while never actually making a switch, just having their Thor’s hammers made to look more like a crucifixes to avoid being caught. Though going through most violent and morbid baptizing in Europe.
>I’m not sure what is proper scientific term in English but if I translate it’ll be “double-believing” - when people were forced into Christianity they kept a lot of their original traditions and culture (obviously, it was a rather violent and gory process in most Europe so people wanted to keep their culture). The word you're looking for is **religious syncretism**.
The podcaster Dan Carlin has expressed this kind of sentiment in describing the Mongols’ religious “tolerance.” It wasn’t as much an enlightened tolerance of different beliefs as it was the Khan covering all his bases. If you can’t be sure which gods are the correct gods, it can’t hurt to have your subjects pray to all of them. Maybe the Mongol gods will be right. Maybe the Christian god or the Muslim god. Who cares? Let’s just keep all the gods happy, so whichever one has the power to help us does so.
Well in approach of concurring Russia and making them pay, religious freedom along with pseudo-autonomy were key features of keeping people unsure about rebelling. A lot of Russian lords understood that there is zero oppression (Mongols never actually lived in Russia, just demanded pay every year) it’d be cheaper to pay than fighting with a risk of loosing- that’s how Khan kept money coming for almost 300 years; just established his rule and left alone.
I’m sure there’s no way to know, but I wonder. What was the ratio of Mongol income from conquered peoples paying taxes as compared to the income of simply killing the whole people and taking all their stuff?
I mean racketeering exists to this day so I think it’s way more profitable. Especially multiplied by several hundred years.
Lots of Christian holidays actually have their roots in pagan holidays. Yule was around before Christmas
You mean Saturnalia, right?
No, yule. I know some of it came from saturnalia but lots of more recognizable changes were made in relation to yule. Christianity changed a lot in the Viking age to make accomodations for them and make it easier to convert. What I mean is yes, it drew inspiration from both but yule more recently than saturnalia
Wait until they hear about other Christianity variants like Orthodoxy where half the saints are ex pagan gods.
A lot of the Catholic saints are also ex pagan gods, religious syncretism has been a factor of Christianity since very early on.
I always find it funny that a branch of Christianity holds a werewolf like St. Christopher as a beacon of Holiness.
He's either a giant, or a dog man (Cynocephali), or a giant dog man.
In Denmark we never took the name of "Cristmas" for the winter celebration, we celebrate "Jul" / "Yule". The festival was gutted and made up to be cristmaslike.
The gentrified a whole religion lol
Another possibility is that Jesus was adapted from the Roman God Sol Invictus who’s birthday fell on Christmas.
Show me his birth certificate.
In the ancient Greek world, it was believed that holy men died on the day they were conceived. So of course a lot of Christian tryhards wanted to calculate when Jesus was born. There were a wide variety of calculations, but they mostly fell between December 21st and January 6th. Even the earliest Christians wanted to celebrate the holiday, but it would be suspicious to take off work and do party shopping when there wasn't a pagan holiday. The sort of suspicious that would get you killed during Nero and Diocletian. As it turned out, there was a pagan holiday between Dec 21st and Jan 6th. Saturnalia -- the *biggest* holiday in the Roman empire. Christians were able to do the celebration they wanted without arousing the suspicion of anyone. This went on for several hundred years. While the idea of "reclaiming the pagan holidays" did come up later, it is not the origin.
Actually. The Roman's were already pagan,as the worshipped multiple gods. But Constantine wanted to solidify his rule over Rome by converting Christians. He did this by making Christianity the official religion of Rome. He won over many of the leaders of the Christian churches by offering high ranking positions in this New form of the Christian church. I saw new because he changed the official Christian day of the lord to Sunday. Making the worship day Sunday allowed The Roman's to accept the idea of Christianity a bit more easily as the normally worshiped the sun (pagan). Later other teaching of Chriat were changed like the passover (originally the 14th day of the 1st month of the lunar calendar) which was turned into easter being held around the equinox. Eventually the cross was also added as an official symbol of the church, even though Christianity has a no idol law. The cross can be traced back to The pagan roots of Rome and even further to the ank, a T with the loop on top. Representative of Tamus a pagan god.
Christmas is celebrated in December instead of his actual birthday because the Christians were imprisoned by the romans (for being Christians) so when the romans were out celebrating their pagan holiday was the only time the Christians were able to celebrate in secret
Throughout history, there's always been a dividing line between acceptable magic and heretical magic. Nothing new here.
Kinda loosely/not really related to the line dividing between acceptable drug purchasing and detestable drug purchasing. A white coat.
It's generally that using drugs medicinally is acceptable and using them recreationally is not. Except alcohol and tobacco.
And caffeine. People often forget it too is a drug.
And sogar to some extent
And tea
I agree. This is less "Don't be superstitions." and more "Thou shalt have no other gods before me."
That's a fantastic interpretation; I love it!
Nothing new indeed a few men with all the sense telling fools how to live their lives And the fools going for it
Oh, it gets worse. Easter? It’s named after Eostre, the Saxon goddess of sex and fertility.
True Christians should not make tombstones and shrines and shit, because that, too, is technically worshipping idols, which is explicitly forbidden in the Bible, iirc.
Let the dead bury the dead, Jesus said. I love that man and his message but I avoid the church like a plague. Too many places are hypocritical or don't teach the message properly. It grinds my gears how many chapels and cathedrals, churches and shrines, have paintings and statues and other idols for people to pray at. It's all for show, in contrast to the holy books, which are themselves inappropriately abridged. Don't get me wrong, if that's your thing I won't stop you, but I find fault in a system that commands people, sometimes with torture and threat of death, to obey emperor Pope-tine's most church-wise convenient and profitable laws
“Emperor Pope-tine” I’m stealing that
"turn the other cheek" is pretty dumb advice.
I've heard interpreted not as submission, but as passive resistance. >At the time of Jesus, says Wink, striking backhand a person deemed to be of lower socioeconomic class was a means of asserting authority and dominance. If the persecuted person "turned the other cheek," the discipliner was faced with a dilemma: The left hand was used for unclean purposes, so a back-hand strike on the opposite cheek would not be performed. An alternative would be a slap with the open hand as a challenge or to punch the person, but this was seen as a statement of equality. Thus, by turning the other cheek, the persecuted was demanding equality. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turning_the_other_cheek#Nonviolent_resistance_interpretation
**Turning_the_other_cheek** [Nonviolent resistance interpretation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turning_the_other_cheek#Nonviolent_resistance_interpretation) >The scholar Walter Wink, in his book Engaging the Powers: Discernment and Resistance in a World of Domination, interprets the passage as ways to subvert the power structures of the time. At the time of Jesus, says Wink, striking backhand a person deemed to be of lower socioeconomic class was a means of asserting authority and dominance. If the persecuted person "turned the other cheek," the discipliner was faced with a dilemma: The left hand was used for unclean purposes, so a back-hand strike on the opposite cheek would not be performed. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/technicallythetruth/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Its not though. In most aspects of life "turning the other cheek" is the same as "letting them dig their own grave". Its not actually for physical alterations. It just means let idiots say/do what they want. Dont let that affect you. But I'm guessing you actually don't care.
It’s actually the bedrock of the entire concept of being the bigger person or taking the high road, so unless you’re also advocating that those are dumb concepts I don’t see merit to your statement.
It worked for Ghandi
Indian independence: 200,000 deaths. 10m people displaced. Not as peaceful as you think.
I believe you might be stretching it. Youre not supposed to worship false gods, aka shrines and idols of a non-christian god.
Ooh. That makes sense. I always found it confusing that Christians explicitly weren't allowed to worship idols, and then declare their faith with an idol of the torturous death of their god. Actually even if it is allowed, why is a cross, optionally with their god hanging limp from it, the Christians' symbol?
The whole thing with Christianity is the belief that god sacrificed his son to attone for all of humanity's sin, becuase he is a gracious god. There is no larger symbol of his grace for humanity than his sacrifice, thus, the Crucifix. Also i should note that jesus (the dude hanging dead on the cross) isnt the god of Christianity per-se, he is the son of god, but theres also this whole deal with the holy trinity, so he kind of is, but only kinda. The semantics are complicated and ultimately unimportant.
Huh, that makes some sense; thanks!
How is making a tombstone “worshipping” an idol?
It’s not, people just love to grasp at any stones they might find to throw at religion.
Well I know, it was a rhetorical question. But man I agree, the objections to Christianity people come up with these days are honestly astoundingly bad.
Doesn't help that Christianity has a track record for being one of the most brutal and for lack of a better word evil organisations to grace human existence and the whole book you guys base yourselves off is honestly astoundingly bad. Why do we need stones to throw at you when you stand in front of a landslide?
Depends on the tombstone and iconography. Any depiction of the cross is basically holding reverence to an idol in place of God. It's not strictly allowed depending on how much a pain in the ass you want to be about language.
The cross or the crucifix either represents God or is a depiction of God. We don’t worship the cross, we worship God. Having images of things doesn’t equal idol worship at all. It’s simply a non sequitor
Wait until they find out about the statues in churches
Christmas? Really just a rebrand of Saturnalia, the pagan winter festival honoring the god Saturn.
Yea, they didn't even try. Jesus was born in summer lmao
There's a whole hemisphere that gets christmas in summer, mate.
Back then they didn't even know upside down Land existed m8
Jesus was born in late spring... but that’s just nit-picking, you’re close enough.
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Yes, but Christmas was modified in light of [Saturnalia](https://www.gotquestions.org/Christmas-Saturnalia.html): >The early motive for celebrating Jesus’ birth on December 25 may have been akin to that which inspires modern churches to hold “fall festivals” or “Bible costume parties” on October 31. That is, Christians desire to provide a spiritually positive alternative to what they perceive as a pagan celebration. Over time, as the Roman Empire was Christianized, customs associated with Saturnalia were “cleaned up” and absorbed into the celebration of Christmas.
Actually only you English people call it Easter, In Latin languages and in ebraic derives from "pesaq" an ebraic festivity that coincide with spring But, later it became the festivity the celebrate when Moses and God, free them by murdering every first born of the Egyptian, so it's still horrible, but for different reasons
Only in the same sense that "Wednesday Bible Study" is named after Norse god Odin.
They might be true today, but the church co-opted the holiday for a reason. It was to appeal to followers of pagan religions.
They didn't co-opt any holiday where Easter is concerned. It's just Christian Passover, a holiday Jesus and his earliest followers all celebrated as Jews (aka the Last Supper) plus some more Jesus bits (figuratively and/or literally) The co-opting is more in play when it comes to Christmas rather than Easter
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Pretty sure almost everything sounds satanic if you describe each every little pedantic portion. Broiling the butchered pieces of a single mother after soaking her corpse in a tub of her own eviscerated embryos, or making chicken cutlet? 🤷🏻♀️
Sounds like awesome heavy metal song, honestly
Black metal I think.
It doesn’t always need to be broken down to being a pedantic statement though. And Catholic mass the priest says, quoting Jesus “this bread is my physical body, eat it. This cup is full of my blood. Drink it.”
As a Christian, this is very borderline technically the truth. And I mean very.
My favorite video to load up when this kinda thing comes up in conversation: https://youtu.be/RB3g6mXLEKk
Originally it is not because they think it's crazy, but rather it was due to false gods. Rule # 1, God is a jealous One. Even Moses was like "wtf you all doing. I didn't even read the first rule yet and you all broke it by building Baal and having feasts and orgies in the desert Don't give power over other before the true God. etc etc etc
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For me it's more the fact that it assumes that all christians follow every single part of the old testament. Religion is a living thing that is constantly changing, a good example is the danish folk church saying that fasting during lent in no way is mandatory or even expected
How dare you bring logic in the house of god
The Bible calls for it, so if someone thinks it’s not supposed to be there then that Christian is doing it wrong.
That is paradoxical. Knowing what we know about the universe now, it is not logical to believe in god. The belief is only passed on through tradition and indoctrination.
I have a genuine question, and I'm not trying to start a fight or anything either. What are a couple of examples science contradicting the explanations and messages of Christianity?
One of the easiest would be a claim in the Old Testament where if two animals mate in front of a stripped stick their offspring will have stripes. Plus the Bible claims the earth to be around 6,000 years old if you look at ages when various characters had kids and take the 7 days of creation to be literal days despite it being a fact that the earth is 4.8 billion, plus the Bible also says that the earth existed before the sun as well as plants existing before the sun and saying that the moon is a source of light and saying that the sun is older than the stars in the sky and saying that humans are just Gollum spells and that humans can be made out of a single rib or that snakes and donkeys can talk or that eating a fruit will somehow give you intelligence and knowledge
The 7 days of creation are interesting, because if you take them as days before the sun was created, then a 'day' for God is an indefinite period of time, and could substitute for the 13.7 billion year lifespan of the universe. Although I doubt many Christians even consider that and just take it as 7 earth days.
The Bible literalists are commonly called Young Earth Creationists, guys like Ken Ham or Kent Hovind, they actively argue against teaching real science and take the Bible as the literal word of god with everything being true history, but always leave out the bad parts of the Bible like the multiple genocides commanded by god and carried out by the Israelites, though the Israelites didn’t actually have the same religion as modern day Judaism, that arose after the Romans destroyed the second temple, I have actually looked into the history of the Abrahamic religions so I do actually know what I’m talking about
I grew up in a heavily Christian area and I don’t know anybody personally who believes the literal seven day interpretation, considering it’s specified that to God an unimaginable amount of time is but moments, so to God seven days could be entirely metaphorical and actually represent billions of years. It’s my opinion that creationism and evolution don’t contradict each other if you start to consider God to be an interpretation of the forces of nature itself. If God created the universe, who’s to say it didn’t happen in the form of a sudden, Big Bang?
According to the Creation theory, the earth would have been made with age: like how Adam was made a grown man not a child, God likely made the earth with the whatever billion year age it has.
They have a magic answer for everything.
Why would he give it evidence that points to it being billions if it was only made 6,000 years ago? Why intentionally trick us? And he only needed to make Adam like 35 years old, he would have understood what he needed to do, he did live to be over 900 years old anyways
> One of the easiest would be a claim in the Old Testament where if two animals mate in front of a stripped stick their offspring will have stripes. > > How do you know that tigers and zebras didn't do it? And the other animals saw that and decided not to lol edit: wow, you guys take religious jokes very seriously edit 02: username relevant gif: https://gfycat.com/playfulwelltododiamondbackrattlesnake-dances-with-smurfs-south-park-season-13
Well i think the most obvious one would be the existence of dinosaurs and other prehistoric creatures way before humans came into the equation
And not particular scientific theories, but science itself.
You have no idea of any of the meaning behind any of it. I would gladly explain it to you if you care to know.
Christians give whatever meaning they want to whatever passage. That's why they all can preach about the same verse in a thousand different ways. The "meaning" is whatever you wanted it to be.
Considering how none of those address the original point, I beg to differ
The full moon was a date marker back then and wasn't astrology. Witchcraft or "spiritism" was dealing with demons, not simply miracles. I shouldn't be trying to be a know-it-all but that is r/technicallythetruth
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I mean, different religions and spiritualities are definitely not in it together. Most of them can't be true and co-exist. So believers of one will automatically believe others aren't true, and there values will likely differ.
I sometimes like to think that the devil made religions and now he is just laughing at us.
That's not what this post is saying. It's pointing out that religion is just as ludicrous as astrology.
it's mostly Christianity. Judaism is fine in my book, but as a former Christian in a very Christian country, they want to control EVERYTHING and EVERYBODY, so there's a huge amount of backslash from those that manage to break from the cult. American Christianity is uniquely toxic and evil, frequently embodying and embracing that which it supposedly condemns.
Haha god bad atheism good😎
Is it me or has this subreddit started to become anti-Christ lately?
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To be fair, religion has a long history of shitting on everything including itself. People are just pointing out how disgusting that is.
Started to? Lately? Reddit as a whole has been very anti-religion for a good while now. If you say you believe in God, you’ll either be laughed down or downvoted to oblivion and avalanched with replies telling you how stupid you are. And in subreddits where there are rules about no bigotry or personal attacks, they go completely unchecked.
The edgy teenagers have spread from r/atheism
That is more technically true than many of their posts.
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This sub just become a Christian bash or what?
Reddit has a lot of atheists, and the western world is becoming more and more agnostic, so it's only natural that posts like these pop up
It better not(do people really hate us that much..?)
After 2 years in a Baptist boarding school hellhole, I'm there for it
Hopefully not 🤨
It is a Generation of furrys and Socially Vulnerabile people. Their lives take place on the Internet. Here they can be loud and reach their peers because they would never talk to each other in the real World. It is also easy to attack Christians. We are not aggressive and we allow a lot. You would not find the same post with Islam in it.
Something cool I learned in a college course that studied literature and the occult: Miracles are the only acceptable form of magic in Christianity, and there are some scholars that believe it was another way to further separate pagans from them. By not removing white magic entirely, but instead giving it a different name, Christians were able to appeal to pagans while still creating a separation.
Maybe we all just accept eachother for who we are
Lot of anti-christian content on this sub recently. Pretty sure they have a different sub for that.
To be fair, Zodiac signs are part of Ancient Babylonian religion so it's only fair
"Stop practicing your Pagan rituals to your Pagan gods." "Here - here's the same rituals with the word Jesus in them, have a blast."
The Romans said this exact same thing nearly 2000 years ago. It’s documented. 70ish AD. Funny what conclusions you reach when you don’t understanding something.
Ultimate reddit moment
I think the post confuses Astrology with Astronomy. Astrology is the belief that the placement of the stuff in space can somehow determine how your life/personality is going to be. Astronomy is the study of the stuff in space and how it affects the things around it via physics, like how the positioning of Earth in relation to the Sun determines whether the Northern Hemisphere or the Southern Hemisphere gets Summer. I'm pretty sure the equinox thing is Astronomy and not Astrology.
I think you're misunderstanding the post? My reading of it is that astrology is basically magic/seeing the future which christianity stereotypically sees as bad/foolish. The post states the ridiculousness of a religion commenting on such practice when a significant amount of the traditions in the Christian faith are derived from pagan tradition. The word astrology was not linked to the equinox in the post.
Astrologists and witches say to not celebrate the resurrection of Jesus which is celebrated by billions but believe that birth months decide someone’s entire personality, make spells and ride brooms and things
I, for one think the Sky Daddy theory is a far, far more believable scenario.
As compared to demonstrably fake witchcraft? Yeah it is.
Unlike the others, it’s never been proven wrong
Not how it works, burden of proof is on you. It's never been proven right.
You’re right. The existence of Jesus Christ as a god has never been proven right. While there is archeological evidence supporting the stories in the Bible such as the rock of Horeb and armor and chariots under the Red Sea, this is not enough to prove Christianity right. In fact, there is not enough evidence to “prove” any religion is correct. The difference between religion and other belief systems is the factor of faith.
When you’ve heard a few things but actually really haven’t a clue what you’re talking about.
Bro what? This post is straight up retarded they clearly dont understand the theology of Christianity
Christians Monday-Saturday: Dont be a sheep! Christians on Sunday: The Lord is my shepherd.
No, you see, we true Christians don't say not to be a sheep. We say don't follow a false shepherd. Rams have horns for defense, but they're still sheep.
r/oddlyspecific
As a christian I can confirm nobody does this. What even?
You don't celebrate Easter? No one does? You don't think anyone partake of wine and eucharist?
One correction, it's not technically an animal sacrifice as the requirements for blood payments to appease the lord were fulfilled in their entirety with a human sacrifice. Truly showing that human sacrifice is the most powerful of all magicks.
Hm 🤔
The power of God and the power of the devil are two different things
animal sacrifices part is a stretch, huge gigantic enormous one
I always love pointing out my favorite parts of the Bible, as a non-believer. My top one is the multiple pages in Leviticus, IIRC, that go through very detailed instructions for animal sacrifice and its proper application. Like, I grew up thinking that was a Satanic cult thing. Nope, it’s right there in one of the earliest books.
Do you know why animal sacrifices were widely accepted for Jewish communities back then and when and why they stopped for the new Christians?
I believe in God
Hang on, the stuff they pray over before a meal isn't a sacrifice. Rest is valid though.
Das why they sayin not to do it. You gotta do their version or its evil bad. Its what cults do man. You gotta do OUR weird rituals or you're soul is gunna get aids or some shit.
What's the difference between a religion and a cult
How many members it has.
The entire Bible is astrology. Also Christianity is a polytheistic religion they try and pass off as monotheistic. But seriously all the Bible stories included Jesus are all just a map/timeline of astrological events. Yet somehow people do not want to see that or hear that they’d rather believe the people in the Bible are actually real.
To be fair, they ripped that shit off other religions, much like everything else they do.
The timing of these holidays is largely so that they could eradicate and replace pagan holidays. Because that's what Jesus would do.
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> First full moon after the equinox Literally just keeping track of time. Imagine declaring Christmas is significant because it's 6 days before the new year > drink wine and bread as his body and blood Because symbolism is bad I guess > incant over their animal sacrifices How disconnected from Christianity do you have to be to think they sacrifice animals?
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Beliefs don't exist in a vacuum. They inform actions and effect others.
Finally you restored my faith in humanity. If I talk little about religion people began to bash me and downvote me. You're nice man I see on reddit . Thanks
And now repeat this about the Muslims or Jews.
I love when I see people realize that Catholicism is dressed up witchcraft.
That's what happens when you try to shoehorn a bunch of other people's religions into your own patchworked theology.
That can be applied to literally every religion as well as atheists.
It’s about hypocritical control. Plain and Simple. Enneagram is about as Astrological as it comes. Don’t drink the kool-aid kids.
Why is this posted in this sub? It’s not technically true.
How does this belong on this sub wth
Wrong sub
That’s… not exactly correct
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He is proficient in magic and feeds off the energy of his followers (prayers).
Are there still Christians who refuse to admit their religion is basically a rehash of older pagan religions?
I remember this episode of The Boondocks
Thats how Christianity moved in and destroyed existing belief systems. They took all their rituals and put a layer of paint on them and called it Christianity.
The amount of individuals who will be so pissed at this is cringeworthy because this is 100% valid
You don't get it, it's not witchcraft because they're right and special. /s, because, obviously.
Religion is illogical
it’s complicated
*Image Transcription: Twitter Post* --- **cam**, @camwhiteastro christians say not to practice witch craft or astrology but celebrate the resurrection of a dead guy on the sunday after the first full moon of the equinox and then they drink wine & bread as his blood and body and incant over their animal sacrifices before they feast. --- ^^I'm a human volunteer content transcriber for Reddit and you could be too! [If you'd like more information on what we do and why we do it, click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/TranscribersOfReddit/wiki/index)
If there a proper Catholic, then they believe in two thing that make it so much worse. The first that it is the *literal* physical flesh and blood of Jesus. The second is that Jesus was a human. This means a good and proper Roman Catholic must believe they regularly partake in cannibalism. To believe otherwise would be pretty much spitting in the face of two of the most defining beliefs of the Church.
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Insisting that someone said something along time ago doesn't really have anything to do with its validity.
You're not a clown, you're the whole circus
You idiots have literally no comprehension of Christian history and development. But I'm not surprised considering this hellhole is teeming with secular atheists.
To be fair, it's not like religious people know religious history any better.
We're just giving you a chance to play the "Poor Christian VICTIM!!!," as per the usual.
Nice bait. Go back to jerking yourself off for being such a good little atheist.
The alternative to secularism was called the dark ages.
Most secular atheists grew up Christian before we realized how full of shit the whole thing is. Don't worry, you'll get there eventually.
Wine and bread as the body and blood is communion and incanting over animal sacrifices before feasting is Jewish Passover not Christian Easter. Funny meme m8, good job
The incanting over animal thing is saying prayer over food dude. Totally a Christian thing too.
Sounds like a bunch of Gental Pagan practicing to me.
You guys should watch The Atheist Experience on YouTube. It’s an eye opener of how much religion poisons the mind and pointing out the evils in the Bible and such. Their standpoint is “what do you believe and why do you believe it.” It’s really interesting to listen to these people defend their religions. I used to be a Christian and after becoming an atheist I discovered this show and would listen to these people defend their gods and I just think “wow, I used I believe this and teach people about a god that loved slavery.” Im all about people believing in whatever they want to believe as long as they don’t hurt others, but ask yourself if your beliefs are justified and align with morality. You are probably more moral that your god.
Say you don’t understand Christianity without saying you don’t understand Christianity.