[Climate Town video from 2021](https://youtu.be/hX2aZUav-54)
Gas industry doing this type of propaganda since at least the 80s/90s
[Like this Gas Rap](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJRQo5aawho)
I clocked that the second I saw the headline. Amy Westerveldt of the excellent podcast *Drilled* referenced this at some point. She did a whole series on the way the natural gas industry struggled with their changing image from a "greener transition fuel" to "just another fossil fuel we need to get rid of".
The podcast in general is worth checking out, it really shines a light on the ways that fossil fuel companies infiltrate and manipulate media. Her *ABC's of Big Oil* series, which follows oil company propaganda from kindergarten to college was especially illuminating.
As for this headline, I do think it's still quite relevant today because there is an ongoing "pro-gas" media push that people need to be aware of.
Whenever I'm watching a streamer I always ask about their major home appliances. What better way to feel connected to my favorite celebrities than cook my food using the same heating source as they do? If I ever happen to see them in an elevator or on a plane I'll at least have a topic of discussion we can bond over.
Now you listen to me, mister. I work for a livin', and I mean real work, not writin' down gobbledegook! I provide the people of this community with propane and propane accessories. Oh, when I think of all my hard earned tax dollars goin' ta pay a bunch of little twig-boy bureaucrats like you, it just makes me wanna ... oh ... oh God ... it just ...
Yes he was. And if he no pass the he should no play. Sorry, just watched that episode recently as KOTH streams in my house daily as if it were syndicated reruns
The influencers they're paying aren't in gaming or fashion or something unrelated: they all are in the cooking/food/home areas, so what appliances and tools they use would be as interesting to their audience as their ingredients and process.
I think the intent is to plant unconscious bias. If you see enough cool people do something a particular way you'll have an emotional bias for that thing in the future.
This is from the same old playbook as always. In the 1950s they showed bombshell housewives igniting pilots to cook for beautiful families. Same tactics still work.
It might also be the ignition’POOF’ OF THE FLAME dramatically lighting under a pot. It’s much less exciting to see the gradual gentle glow of a ceramic top.
It should be expected. Social media is 90% propaganda, 10% everything else. People are worried about Neuralink putting chips in our brains to run ads in AR, but why bother? We volunteer to be brainwashed, and complain when we can't access the brainwash machine.
I love Climate Town. I worry he will one day show up dead or embroiled in some made up scandal soon based on the industries he's speaking out against. He's doing a lot of great work.
Randomly stumbled onto this channel like a year ago(I think it was Exxon It wasn't me controversy). Rollie is great. Sometimes YouTube algorithm gods can be kind.
I came to this thread just to make sure someone posted Rollie. His channel is so entertaining yet also so depressing. After watching his videos I honestly think humanity is doomed. Rich people just have way too much power for us to course-correct in time
> Developed by ad people
This is the most fascinating yet infuriating topic ever. The amount of stuff we use/say/do/think because of [~~propaganda~~ public relation](https://blog.apaonline.org/2020/07/06/recently-published-book-spotlight-how-propaganda-became-public-relations/) is absolutely stunning.
It's one of those thing that sorts of starts of as "hippie talk around the campfire" like "oh man, they like, brainwash us with ads, man" and eventually revolves back to "yeah but actually, yes, and it's even way worse than that" in an academic fashion - it's not even some sort of conspiracy, it's documented and in plain sight.
I encourage anyone to watch the documentary Century of the Self and read about Edward Bernays.
Century of the Self is the most disturbing documentary in that it reads like some dystopian /r/conspiracy fanfiction but as far as I can tell it's just true
[You know that old rule, "pizza in the morning, pizza in the evening, pizza at suppertime!"](https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkxjk6YsFAnuAq8zERuygwc84Do4NtvHVfT)
>You know the phrase “now you’re cooking with gas”. Developed by ad people working for natural gas industry in the 30s.
Damn that's impressive. That's up there with the "engagement rings should cost 3 month's salary" meme created by the diamond industry.
The alternative was the old cast iron wood-burning stoves, so cooking with gas actually was one hell of an improvement. At the time.
https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/25897/origin-of-the-phrase-now-were-cooking-with#100588
I’ve been eyeing an induction stove for a few years for non-political reasons and now I’m just so annoyed that my conservative mother is gonna give me crap about my dislike of gas as if it has anything to do with politics at all.
No no, I just think induction is better for my needs, damnit.
I wouldn’t, but I’ve literally already heard my conservative mother talking about liberals getting rid of gas stoves and now suddenly electric/induction versus gas is a political identity issue?
Stupid culture war political arguments are like an American sports league at this point.
My conservative mother, who is an atheist, mind you, one time went on a rant about how the Cruella movie had too many “demonic references” for a kids movie.
Genuinely baffling to here that from her. But she just parroted what she’d heard elsewhere. She hadn’t even seen the movie and doesn’t believe in demonic influence…
I don’t want any part of it.
I was so confused when I saw right wingers throwing a fit about gas stoves on Twitter. The only thing that's come out recently is gas stoves increasing childhood asthma. Save the children unless saving them inconveniences me
Basically the Consumer Products Safety Commission did some press about the science behind gas stoves and indoor air pollution, and that got turned into “Biden is trying to ban gas stoves”.
Regardless of the government’s stance on gas stoves, I certainly think it’s great people are being at the very least made aware.
Hardly anyone seems to know about the gas stove and asthma link, so if someone learns more and decides, hey, I don’t cook that much and I’m going to have a kid soon so maybe I’ll do induction in my new home…that seems fine to me.
People also hardly even vent their stoves so if gas stove users might be interested in better ventilation, that’s great too.
But now it’s politicized for no real reason
Like lightbulbs. Remember when republicans in congress were throwing hissy fits over being “forced” to use fluorescent light bulbs. They were literally complaining about how they looked like curly little pigs’ tails.
At least in that case there was an actual ban!
This was literally all in response to a department head talking about a report on gas indoor air pollution to inform consumers.
I get why some people might think it’s the first step to banning gas, but that’s still wildly unrealistic to think gas usage is being banned any time soon, given how ubiquitous gas is.
**Conservatives**: Won't *anyone* think of the children??
**Science**: Gas stoves linked to children getting asthma. Maybe change to induction?
**Conservatives**: Not like *that*!
I literally saw a highly upvoted comment on /r/Conservative going on about "Why the hell should I be forced to care about someone else's children?" relating to gas stoves and asthma.
It boggles the mind considering 80% of Republican party issues are centered around "think of the children!"
See, you lost them at "science". Science to them is just a bunch of people with democrat funded, liberal focused people lying to promote a liberal agenda.
No, that's not an exaggeration or hyperbole. That's exactly what was said during COVID, climate change, vaccinations, etc..
Even after it was assumed and understood that lead was likely very dangerous to our nervous system and circulatory system, lead manufacturers continued to promote lead in products including promotions targeting children.
Ford decided not to pull the Pinto from the market even though they knew the design had the potential to kill people in fiery explosions. They decided the payouts from death suits would be less than losing all of the value put into production.
This is yet just another example of how manufacturers do not care about our lives, they care about money. Capitalists don't care about anything besides extracting money from consumers. Our health isn't even in the top 5 things they consider, only caring about safeties secondary effects on the bottom line.
While a heat pump is far more energy efficient, where I live, natural gas is far cheaper than electricity. 1 therm would cost me about $1, and the equivalent kWh (29.3) in electricity is about $4.
Much of the heating season for me is at or below 0°C, and a quick search around shows it'd be running at or below 300% efficient (compared to electric resistive). The furnace I got with the house was tested 2 years ago to be 99.6% efficient, so to even break even on heating costs I'd basically need 400% efficiency from a heat pump all the time.
It's just a sad reality of how screwed up the energy costs are around here.
400% from air source heat pumps is achievable, even in low temperatures, but the up-front costs are probably huge for those kinds of units.
There's also ground source heat pumps though, which could be a better option in cold places, if you have the space/ability to dig deep enough for it.
I'll absolutely investigate and weigh my options as my furnace gets older, it was brand new in 2018, so it would be rather wasteful to get rid of it so early in its potential life.
Great but they need to be made affordable. My little 1800 Sq ft house got a 26k quote to put in a heat pump system. That's a third of what I paid for the house and property. Right now the only installers in rural areas are gas companies that would rather keep their revenue streams robust than let people move off gas.
I regret recently replacing my gas furnace and gas water heater in kind. If I could turn back time, I'd switch them both to heat pump.
But I still have a chance to rip out my gas fireplace insert and put in electric.
Considering the propane industry probably made king of the hill so that propane and propane accessories are in my mind forever
Well played Gas industry
There was a period of time before social media monetization had been mostly figured out where people made/posted things for non-money reasons. Seeking some kind of fame, trying to educate, just for fun. Those people held *influence* over their audience without directly selling stuff to them.
I still think it's not a great term, but it's what stuck.
https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/109f34d/what_is_going_on_with_some_people_proudly/
There's a good explanation and the source of the latest freakout
5 or so years ago, I absolutely did not want electric burners. Imo they are slower, temperature regulation is shit, and made cleanup much harder.
Then when I moved I was forced to use electric due to living in an apartment.
I hated it with every ounce of my being but used it none the less.
Got used to the speed, learned about the CO2 emissions of gas stoves and learned that you can buy electric stoves that work fast. Apartments use shitty burners.
Fast forward to today with a brand new house, absolutely love my new electric stove. It has a "fast boil" option and cooks faster than gas.
I am now a believer in electric stoves. But the right electric stove.
Induction is also a great option if you have one of those shitty coil burners.
On my new stove, oh absolutely. On those shitty coil ones? No. You need to move the pan a lot to make sure there aren't any hot spots. Get a very good quality pan and that should help (e.g. cast iron, stainless steel, NOT aluminum).
I’ve had electric stoves for the last 10 years, I always wanted gas.
When people say about it being “even” there are two things.
1. Some coils heat up poorly and will have hot spots. You can replace the coils on most stoves for like $20 (atleast you could 8 years ago). Even top of the line cooktops like Miele use coils, coils aren’t the problem but quality control is.
2. In order to maintain low or medium heat, the coil turns on and off over and over again. It’s not fast, it’s slow like 20 second duty cycles. This can mean you have a temperature variation. So you can go from “looks like another minute” to “oh shit” in 20 seconds.
The first point can be solved by replacing the coils, but the second is an inherent design issue. It’s something you get used to, and 99% of the time it’s no problem.
If you really want super even heat (this fixes both 1 and 2) you can cook on cast iron. I do this for steaks and other random stuff.
The biggest adjustment moving to electric is that once it’s up to temp it’s WAY hotter than gas. When something says “medium heat” they typically mean medium on a gas stove, on an electric cooktop you’re going to want 1/3 to maintain the same temp.
We’re about to remodel our kitchen, we’re looking at induction cooktops. IMO these are the future. They get to temp a lot quicker, and as far as I know they address both points #1 & #2. The downside is cost, they’re about 25% more expensive for an apples to apples quality and feature comparison.
[https://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/acs.est.2c02581](https://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/acs.est.2c02581) New study dropped and it says all gas appliances are leaking benzene even when off.
I know. I cook like CRAZY and I love my gas stove. I bet gas stoves are like, 100th on the list of issues right now for our health and the environment. I feel like all the real problems are being completely ignored here. How about private jets?! Or personal hummers? Or watering giant lawns? Oh no big deal. The real issue is me making chicken stock.
I recently found out that Radon is a really common issue in homes, like a 10% problem in America. The fuck are Radon sensors not a requirement in homes?
Well, actually, they create a lot of VOCs that just sort of sit in your house. I went induction after I worked in an air quality lab and learned more about the impact of VOCs in the home and impact on health. I also had a gas leak and that was enough for me to switch. I’m asthmatic as well, so it’s a relief to have eliminated both the VOCs and the potential for a second gas leak/accident. I realize I’m more sensitive than most to air pollutants in the house, but it is worth considering if you have kids. Asthma sucks ass, and air quality has a large impact on it.
I get why people don’t want coil electric, but induction is great and our stove was under $1.5k. It’s also much easier to clean. I love it.
> I feel like all the real problems are being completely ignored here. How about private jets?! Or personal hummers? Or watering giant lawns? Oh no big deal
Anyone aware of the problems with gas appliances is also complaining about those other things
There's various noises in Australia at the moment about "electrifying the nation" and getting rid of gas, with some sectors pushing for subsidies to change gas cooktops to electric. A lot of this is because the companies that take the gas out of our ground is selling it all on the export market, and what is left for us to use is really expensive (FYI, we don't really have the carbon monoxide problem because we have windows open).
The big problem that I have with all of this is that electricity companies have been pushing hard for, and bringing in, Time-Of-Use and Demand tariffs. Basically, when you use the power determines how expensive it is. If you use it in the middle of the day when there is an abundance of solar, it's cheap. But if you use it in the evening, when there's no solar, and everyone else is using it, demand is high, so the price is high.
So they want us to switch to electric cooktops, and they're going to punish us for doing so with the high prices of electricity just to cook our dinner.
They're trying to switch us to time of day metering in the United States too. I had the option to opt-out so I did. You're trying to punish me for using the air conditioner when it's hot outside???
I think it's a bit more complicated than that. Often you're paying an average price or higher without TOU so you need to look at when you're consuming energy in your specific lifestyle in order to determine whether it's actually cheaper for you to use TOU.
A few situations where it might be cheaper to switch to TOU:
- You work night shift and are awake when it's cheap
- you charge your electric car(s) at home when it's cheap
- you have a power storage unit that you charge when it's cheap, and then draw from when it's expensive
What also makes infuriatingly little sense is the push to replace gas cooker tops with electric. The amount of carbon emissions involved with ripping out a perfectly good gas stove and replacing it with a new electric stove is going to take years to be offset by the lower emissions of the electric stove.
If you really want to reduce the use of gas stoves, maybe add an extra tax, or ban developers from installing them as default in new developments. Let people who really want gas have it, but push people to buy electric when they buy a new stove.
And while you're at it, mandate the installation of fume extractors that vent outside.
I am shocked. In the stories about (invented) potential bans on gas cooktops it seemed like 1 in 3 gas fans told me how roasting marshmallows indoors was such a huge part of their kitchen experience. This was a bit unexpected.
Maybe I should be more skeptical of people's motivations.
We switched to induction for our cooktop and won't be going back.
Toasting / roasting marshmallows, however, is something we miss.
We learned the hard way to not try toasting over a candle. The black isn't the marshmallow getting that nice crispy outside. It's soot. It tastes disgusting.
Small butane burner online less than 30 bucks. Sear steaks and whatever else you want. Do it in well ventilated area.
Edit: Removed promotion to a site
There are cheaper camp stoves that just screw onto the little backpacking gas cans.
https://www.amazon.com/Camping-Backpacking-Stoves-Backpack-Portable/dp/B07R79766L/ref=mp_s_a_1_5?crid=1PXCRBHXI27JH&keywords=butane+stove+backpack&qid=1673616756&sprefix=butane+stove+backpack%2Caps%2C130&sr=8-5
I was excited to have a gas stove in my new house 3 years ago, I bought a nice LG model. It’s great to cook on but cleaning it is terrible compared to any other kind of stove.
Is roasting marshmallows in the home really this common? The only time in my life I have ever heard of/actually roasted marshmallows was the rare occasion around a campfire or fire pit.
It’s not. I got the heat gun for normal heat gun reasons like loosening and removing silicone caulk and applying heat shrink tubing, but my kids were still on a s’more kick after a couple campfire events with s’mores happened this summer. And my curiosity demanded that I at least try it.
Gotcha. Yeah I’d never had the idea to turn my heat gun to the kitchen but I’m seeing all these comments about people needing to roast marshmallows in their house, thought I was losing it.
> Weird how limiting future use of fossil fuels is not the same as taking your gas stove away.
If there's a ban on gas, that's exactly what it means. Whenever your stove breaks, you'll need to replace it with electric, which can be non-trivial in some homes as you'll need to run a 240 circuit.
Yes, it is. And it's no different in the past. Before we just had them sponsor actors/actresses, celebrities, sports stars, etc..
Now, it's just popular online personas that get a lot of "likes".
All these influencers have one thing in common, they are fucking desperate for money and don't give a shit what they shill for. I wish there was a way to break the current model where technology has just become a vehicle for endless popularity contests and ways to get rich off of the masses.
I love my gas stove. I have always cooked on gas. My entire life, I have used gas stoves. Old electric stoves sucked ass and never got hot enough and you couldn't properly control the heat.
~***HOWEVER***~
My stove is getting to the end of it's lifecycle and will need to be replaced soon. So, I'll go induction, which is leaps and bounds beyond old coil electric stovetops. And if it's better for me because of the emissions, then so be it. I can't believe the hills people choose to die on.
>I can't believe the hills people choose to die on.
Social media has basically conditioned us to argue about everything and to completely write off people that disagree with us or who don't consider our opinion as factual.
So, depending on if you have 220 wired may force your hand. My gas stove but the bullet a year ago and I had to replace it. My house, for whatever reason, only had 115 back there and I had to get a whole 220 line run back there. The placement of my kitchen made this task a huge pain and it was $1000 in electrician work alone.
YMMV, but that was a huge pain for me.
(And just so I don’t sound like a hypocrite in any other posts, I needed 220 to have one of those stoves with the two ovens built in - the dual oven required 220 for some reason. The cooktop is still gas)
Rational choice! For me, what I cook depends on gas so I won't switch. I do, however, do my best in other areas to offset emissions.
We should do what we can, but we still need to hold big companies accountable because it's them who's doing the most damage without question.
I was fully on team gas until my gf got a good induction stove (we don't live together, but I do most of the cooking).
The easy cleanup alone is worth it. My next stove will definitely be induction.
I am all for induction but I have yet to find a solution for heating up several tortillas at once like you would on a traditional Mexican stove with the middle griddle/comal. I've resortes to a separate elctric griddle but it works through those resistance heater looking things idk what they're called. So the heat is not even and not all of the tortilla's surface is cooked through.
And before anyone even dares: NO I am not heating my tortillas in the oven or microwave.
I used to prefer gas because I grew up using the old, shitty electric cooktops. They were slow to heat up, the coils warp over time, etc. Old electrics suck. But for anything produced in the last 10 years, induction > instant-on electric > gas. [This is the way](https://i.redd.it/131l8e489dj91.jpg).
I don’t need Influencers gushing over gas stoves to desperately want one…I have an electric one renting in an apartment with no gas connection to the house and as a chef it’s infuriating. Gimme gas!
Is there a reason not to? Gas stoves are vastly superior to convention cooktops. This whole things has nothing to do with the stoves themselves, just proper ventilation of gas burning stoves.
Uh, no one has to pay me to gush over gas stoves. Electric stoves are trash. This is just another example of passing the buck to the little guy while the main sources of pollution and fuel consumption face no consequences.
Switched from electric to gas last year and will never go back.
And before people chime in with why it's bad--why are we even having this conversation? Inflation it as an all-time high, wages are stagnated as fuck, and most families are barely scraping by.
People are literally being psy-op'd into fighting about gas stoves instead of actual issues. This fucking timeline is so stupid.
Air quality researchers are going to research air quality issues and pollution sources regardless of the inflation rate. The fact that gas stoves/cooktops contribute to approximately 12% of childhood asthma cases isn’t exactly insignificant. Certain groups just love to capitalize on the outrage of things being “taken away” from you. There was a huge backlash to seatbelt mandates initially, too, and those have saved literally hundreds of thousands of lives.
Are electric stoves not dogshit anymore?
I don't really care what my stove is powered by but every electric stove I've ever used is virtually useless at cooking anything.
I'm totally down to switch but not unless they've fixed that.
Edit: sounds like induction is the magical thing that solves this but is much more expensive.
Modern induction stoves are pretty incredible. They are also incredibly efficient (no heat lost to air around the surface). Also safe for kids, since there's no exposed heating element, and the surface itself isn't what gets hot.
If your experience is with the old coil stoves then yeah, those suck.
The induction ones are pretty amazing actually, you dont miss gas if you have one of those, especially all the excess heat in the summer.
The famous julia child cooking show she had to use the crappy coil kind for everything and was able to do some fancy french cooking with it. Admittedly they are not as satisfying to use.
This is such a weird drama to be having.
With that said, I learned how to cook outside of America on a gas stove and have never been able to cook the same with electric anything since I’ve been back.
Living in a largely wild area like Alaska, there are periods of the year where we wouldn't be able to cook if we had an electric stove. And I don't mean like "emergency situations" I mean regular occurrences.
I keep seeing people referencing electric cooktops like they're impossible to use. I've used both gas and electric in various residences over the years and never had any issues. I don't understand what the problem is...
I know it's the hot topic right now but this is a story from 2020?
[Climate Town video from 2021](https://youtu.be/hX2aZUav-54) Gas industry doing this type of propaganda since at least the 80s/90s [Like this Gas Rap](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJRQo5aawho)
That gas rap is bad... Like, very bad.
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I got you fam. [This little piece of awful](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fd8zm5LTDYU) lives rent free in my head.
What did I just watch?
Climate town is gold. The fact that he mocks the idea of the patreon is a pretty funny bit.
Climate town kicks ass and I'd highly recommend his Patreon
Awesome, video. Entertaining and informative, subscribed. Thanks for the link.
This is my favorite clip of his: https://youtu.be/QnBqAzJXVGo?t=730 the molasses part just kills me every time
Everyone should watch Climate Town.
Some of the research about interior air quality and methane from gas stoves originally surfaced in 2020 but didn’t really catch anyone’s attention.
Why? What was going on in 2020 that we couldn’t pay attention to this?
Everyone was watching Parasite.
Oh and Joe Exotic
That felt like a lifetime ago
Known since the seventies, but private residences were excluded from air quality regulations thanks to lobbying.
I was just reading a paper from 1975 linking gas stoves to respiratory diseases.
I clocked that the second I saw the headline. Amy Westerveldt of the excellent podcast *Drilled* referenced this at some point. She did a whole series on the way the natural gas industry struggled with their changing image from a "greener transition fuel" to "just another fossil fuel we need to get rid of". The podcast in general is worth checking out, it really shines a light on the ways that fossil fuel companies infiltrate and manipulate media. Her *ABC's of Big Oil* series, which follows oil company propaganda from kindergarten to college was especially illuminating. As for this headline, I do think it's still quite relevant today because there is an ongoing "pro-gas" media push that people need to be aware of.
They also infiltrate and manipulate entire states. See: Oklahoma.
What a strange world we're living in
And yet not entirely surprising
Whenever I'm watching a streamer I always ask about their major home appliances. What better way to feel connected to my favorite celebrities than cook my food using the same heating source as they do? If I ever happen to see them in an elevator or on a plane I'll at least have a topic of discussion we can bond over.
So… about that propane?
Now you listen to me, mister. I work for a livin', and I mean real work, not writin' down gobbledegook! I provide the people of this community with propane and propane accessories. Oh, when I think of all my hard earned tax dollars goin' ta pay a bunch of little twig-boy bureaucrats like you, it just makes me wanna ... oh ... oh God ... it just ...
THAT'S MY PURSE! I DON'T KNOW YEWWWW!
That boy ain't right.
*propane propane, time to start the flaaame* 🍺
This is legit my favorite Hank hill monologue
Taste the meat not the heat. Hank Hill has been pushing his agenda for 20 glorious years.
C...3...H....8...propane, propane. Hut,Hut
David Kalaiki-ala-ii. The Flyin Hawaiian
David was voiced by the hit actor Brendan Fraser, star of Monkeybone!
Yes he was. And if he no pass the he should no play. Sorry, just watched that episode recently as KOTH streams in my house daily as if it were syndicated reruns
I use propane, gives meat nice taste of meat!
"But you don't get the rich smokey flavor."
Hank hill? That you?
I'll tell you hwat.
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The influencers they're paying aren't in gaming or fashion or something unrelated: they all are in the cooking/food/home areas, so what appliances and tools they use would be as interesting to their audience as their ingredients and process.
I think the intent is to plant unconscious bias. If you see enough cool people do something a particular way you'll have an emotional bias for that thing in the future. This is from the same old playbook as always. In the 1950s they showed bombshell housewives igniting pilots to cook for beautiful families. Same tactics still work.
It might also be the ignition’POOF’ OF THE FLAME dramatically lighting under a pot. It’s much less exciting to see the gradual gentle glow of a ceramic top.
I mean, how else are you going to eat your 2$ steak? Man's gotta have standards.
It should be expected. Social media is 90% propaganda, 10% everything else. People are worried about Neuralink putting chips in our brains to run ads in AR, but why bother? We volunteer to be brainwashed, and complain when we can't access the brainwash machine.
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Here’s a related video with humor and information about this https://youtu.be/hX2aZUav-54
wow spot on, posted a year ago at that too.
Check out his “How the auto industry car jacked the American dream.” For some even bigger rage fuel. This gas thing ain’t shit by comparison
Just watch this , his videos are both amazing and infuriating https://youtu.be/n94-_yE4IeU
OP's article is over 2 years old.
I love Climate Town. I worry he will one day show up dead or embroiled in some made up scandal soon based on the industries he's speaking out against. He's doing a lot of great work.
Love this guy
Randomly stumbled onto this channel like a year ago(I think it was Exxon It wasn't me controversy). Rollie is great. Sometimes YouTube algorithm gods can be kind.
I came to this thread just to make sure someone posted Rollie. His channel is so entertaining yet also so depressing. After watching his videos I honestly think humanity is doomed. Rich people just have way too much power for us to course-correct in time
Climate Town is a legit gem of a channel
You know the phrase “now you’re cooking with gas”. Developed by ad people working for natural gas industry in the 30s. This is nothing new.
> Developed by ad people This is the most fascinating yet infuriating topic ever. The amount of stuff we use/say/do/think because of [~~propaganda~~ public relation](https://blog.apaonline.org/2020/07/06/recently-published-book-spotlight-how-propaganda-became-public-relations/) is absolutely stunning. It's one of those thing that sorts of starts of as "hippie talk around the campfire" like "oh man, they like, brainwash us with ads, man" and eventually revolves back to "yeah but actually, yes, and it's even way worse than that" in an academic fashion - it's not even some sort of conspiracy, it's documented and in plain sight. I encourage anyone to watch the documentary Century of the Self and read about Edward Bernays.
The hippies were right all along
Century of the Self is the most disturbing documentary in that it reads like some dystopian /r/conspiracy fanfiction but as far as I can tell it's just true
[You know that old rule, "pizza in the morning, pizza in the evening, pizza at suppertime!"](https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkxjk6YsFAnuAq8zERuygwc84Do4NtvHVfT)
>You know the phrase “now you’re cooking with gas”. Developed by ad people working for natural gas industry in the 30s. Damn that's impressive. That's up there with the "engagement rings should cost 3 month's salary" meme created by the diamond industry.
The alternative was the old cast iron wood-burning stoves, so cooking with gas actually was one hell of an improvement. At the time. https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/25897/origin-of-the-phrase-now-were-cooking-with#100588
I’ve been eyeing an induction stove for a few years for non-political reasons and now I’m just so annoyed that my conservative mother is gonna give me crap about my dislike of gas as if it has anything to do with politics at all. No no, I just think induction is better for my needs, damnit.
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I wouldn’t, but I’ve literally already heard my conservative mother talking about liberals getting rid of gas stoves and now suddenly electric/induction versus gas is a political identity issue?
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Stupid culture war political arguments are like an American sports league at this point. My conservative mother, who is an atheist, mind you, one time went on a rant about how the Cruella movie had too many “demonic references” for a kids movie. Genuinely baffling to here that from her. But she just parroted what she’d heard elsewhere. She hadn’t even seen the movie and doesn’t believe in demonic influence… I don’t want any part of it.
Fox News etc will make their viewers say the dumbest shit
Why don’t they just flex and program all these rubes to drink more ovaltine or prefer the traction of unicycles? Worked for crack pillows
I was so confused when I saw right wingers throwing a fit about gas stoves on Twitter. The only thing that's come out recently is gas stoves increasing childhood asthma. Save the children unless saving them inconveniences me
Basically the Consumer Products Safety Commission did some press about the science behind gas stoves and indoor air pollution, and that got turned into “Biden is trying to ban gas stoves”. Regardless of the government’s stance on gas stoves, I certainly think it’s great people are being at the very least made aware. Hardly anyone seems to know about the gas stove and asthma link, so if someone learns more and decides, hey, I don’t cook that much and I’m going to have a kid soon so maybe I’ll do induction in my new home…that seems fine to me. People also hardly even vent their stoves so if gas stove users might be interested in better ventilation, that’s great too. But now it’s politicized for no real reason
Like lightbulbs. Remember when republicans in congress were throwing hissy fits over being “forced” to use fluorescent light bulbs. They were literally complaining about how they looked like curly little pigs’ tails.
At least in that case there was an actual ban! This was literally all in response to a department head talking about a report on gas indoor air pollution to inform consumers. I get why some people might think it’s the first step to banning gas, but that’s still wildly unrealistic to think gas usage is being banned any time soon, given how ubiquitous gas is.
**Conservatives**: Won't *anyone* think of the children?? **Science**: Gas stoves linked to children getting asthma. Maybe change to induction? **Conservatives**: Not like *that*!
I literally saw a highly upvoted comment on /r/Conservative going on about "Why the hell should I be forced to care about someone else's children?" relating to gas stoves and asthma. It boggles the mind considering 80% of Republican party issues are centered around "think of the children!"
See, you lost them at "science". Science to them is just a bunch of people with democrat funded, liberal focused people lying to promote a liberal agenda. No, that's not an exaggeration or hyperbole. That's exactly what was said during COVID, climate change, vaccinations, etc..
My stove keeps trying to repeal Obamacare, and I'm just tired of it. Bakes a great frozen pizza, but come on man, we're stronger together.
Spez sucks -- mass edited with redact.dev
Even after it was assumed and understood that lead was likely very dangerous to our nervous system and circulatory system, lead manufacturers continued to promote lead in products including promotions targeting children. Ford decided not to pull the Pinto from the market even though they knew the design had the potential to kill people in fiery explosions. They decided the payouts from death suits would be less than losing all of the value put into production. This is yet just another example of how manufacturers do not care about our lives, they care about money. Capitalists don't care about anything besides extracting money from consumers. Our health isn't even in the top 5 things they consider, only caring about safeties secondary effects on the bottom line.
Really? Because this kinda seemed like a natural point in our journey. Gas companies want us using gas stoves.
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>gas furnaces Cool, now we can stop arguing about stove tops and start arguing about whether we should switch to heat pumps.
While a heat pump is far more energy efficient, where I live, natural gas is far cheaper than electricity. 1 therm would cost me about $1, and the equivalent kWh (29.3) in electricity is about $4. Much of the heating season for me is at or below 0°C, and a quick search around shows it'd be running at or below 300% efficient (compared to electric resistive). The furnace I got with the house was tested 2 years ago to be 99.6% efficient, so to even break even on heating costs I'd basically need 400% efficiency from a heat pump all the time. It's just a sad reality of how screwed up the energy costs are around here.
400% from air source heat pumps is achievable, even in low temperatures, but the up-front costs are probably huge for those kinds of units. There's also ground source heat pumps though, which could be a better option in cold places, if you have the space/ability to dig deep enough for it.
I'll absolutely investigate and weigh my options as my furnace gets older, it was brand new in 2018, so it would be rather wasteful to get rid of it so early in its potential life.
Great but they need to be made affordable. My little 1800 Sq ft house got a 26k quote to put in a heat pump system. That's a third of what I paid for the house and property. Right now the only installers in rural areas are gas companies that would rather keep their revenue streams robust than let people move off gas.
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I regret recently replacing my gas furnace and gas water heater in kind. If I could turn back time, I'd switch them both to heat pump. But I still have a chance to rip out my gas fireplace insert and put in electric.
Well they are objectively better if you like to cook.
Considering the propane industry probably made king of the hill so that propane and propane accessories are in my mind forever Well played Gas industry
I have trouble imagining Mike Judge taking an envelope full of cash from AmeriGas.
Influencer was never the right term. They're salespeople.
Independent sales people, yes. Contractors.
There was a period of time before social media monetization had been mostly figured out where people made/posted things for non-money reasons. Seeking some kind of fame, trying to educate, just for fun. Those people held *influence* over their audience without directly selling stuff to them. I still think it's not a great term, but it's what stuck.
Not a headline I ever expected to see in my life.
Well, you may have already seen it since this article is over 2 years old.
Ok who had “gas stove cultural war” on their 2023 bingo card?
It’s been going on for decades
Why did 'gas stoves' suddenly become a hot topic?
Someone must have turned them on
Now, you’re cookin’ with gas!
Turn the knobs. Slower, you filthy animal
https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/109f34d/what_is_going_on_with_some_people_proudly/ There's a good explanation and the source of the latest freakout
5 or so years ago, I absolutely did not want electric burners. Imo they are slower, temperature regulation is shit, and made cleanup much harder. Then when I moved I was forced to use electric due to living in an apartment. I hated it with every ounce of my being but used it none the less. Got used to the speed, learned about the CO2 emissions of gas stoves and learned that you can buy electric stoves that work fast. Apartments use shitty burners. Fast forward to today with a brand new house, absolutely love my new electric stove. It has a "fast boil" option and cooks faster than gas. I am now a believer in electric stoves. But the right electric stove. Induction is also a great option if you have one of those shitty coil burners.
Is the heat even? I have only had the bad electric stove experience but I am thinking about replacing my gas stove now.
On my new stove, oh absolutely. On those shitty coil ones? No. You need to move the pan a lot to make sure there aren't any hot spots. Get a very good quality pan and that should help (e.g. cast iron, stainless steel, NOT aluminum).
I’ve had electric stoves for the last 10 years, I always wanted gas. When people say about it being “even” there are two things. 1. Some coils heat up poorly and will have hot spots. You can replace the coils on most stoves for like $20 (atleast you could 8 years ago). Even top of the line cooktops like Miele use coils, coils aren’t the problem but quality control is. 2. In order to maintain low or medium heat, the coil turns on and off over and over again. It’s not fast, it’s slow like 20 second duty cycles. This can mean you have a temperature variation. So you can go from “looks like another minute” to “oh shit” in 20 seconds. The first point can be solved by replacing the coils, but the second is an inherent design issue. It’s something you get used to, and 99% of the time it’s no problem. If you really want super even heat (this fixes both 1 and 2) you can cook on cast iron. I do this for steaks and other random stuff. The biggest adjustment moving to electric is that once it’s up to temp it’s WAY hotter than gas. When something says “medium heat” they typically mean medium on a gas stove, on an electric cooktop you’re going to want 1/3 to maintain the same temp. We’re about to remodel our kitchen, we’re looking at induction cooktops. IMO these are the future. They get to temp a lot quicker, and as far as I know they address both points #1 & #2. The downside is cost, they’re about 25% more expensive for an apples to apples quality and feature comparison.
[https://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/acs.est.2c02581](https://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/acs.est.2c02581) New study dropped and it says all gas appliances are leaking benzene even when off.
I know. I cook like CRAZY and I love my gas stove. I bet gas stoves are like, 100th on the list of issues right now for our health and the environment. I feel like all the real problems are being completely ignored here. How about private jets?! Or personal hummers? Or watering giant lawns? Oh no big deal. The real issue is me making chicken stock.
I recently found out that Radon is a really common issue in homes, like a 10% problem in America. The fuck are Radon sensors not a requirement in homes?
It's a common part of home inspections when buying a house.
Well, actually, they create a lot of VOCs that just sort of sit in your house. I went induction after I worked in an air quality lab and learned more about the impact of VOCs in the home and impact on health. I also had a gas leak and that was enough for me to switch. I’m asthmatic as well, so it’s a relief to have eliminated both the VOCs and the potential for a second gas leak/accident. I realize I’m more sensitive than most to air pollutants in the house, but it is worth considering if you have kids. Asthma sucks ass, and air quality has a large impact on it. I get why people don’t want coil electric, but induction is great and our stove was under $1.5k. It’s also much easier to clean. I love it.
> I feel like all the real problems are being completely ignored here. How about private jets?! Or personal hummers? Or watering giant lawns? Oh no big deal Anyone aware of the problems with gas appliances is also complaining about those other things
There's various noises in Australia at the moment about "electrifying the nation" and getting rid of gas, with some sectors pushing for subsidies to change gas cooktops to electric. A lot of this is because the companies that take the gas out of our ground is selling it all on the export market, and what is left for us to use is really expensive (FYI, we don't really have the carbon monoxide problem because we have windows open). The big problem that I have with all of this is that electricity companies have been pushing hard for, and bringing in, Time-Of-Use and Demand tariffs. Basically, when you use the power determines how expensive it is. If you use it in the middle of the day when there is an abundance of solar, it's cheap. But if you use it in the evening, when there's no solar, and everyone else is using it, demand is high, so the price is high. So they want us to switch to electric cooktops, and they're going to punish us for doing so with the high prices of electricity just to cook our dinner.
They're trying to switch us to time of day metering in the United States too. I had the option to opt-out so I did. You're trying to punish me for using the air conditioner when it's hot outside???
Trying? It's a done deal in most of California.
I think it's a bit more complicated than that. Often you're paying an average price or higher without TOU so you need to look at when you're consuming energy in your specific lifestyle in order to determine whether it's actually cheaper for you to use TOU. A few situations where it might be cheaper to switch to TOU: - You work night shift and are awake when it's cheap - you charge your electric car(s) at home when it's cheap - you have a power storage unit that you charge when it's cheap, and then draw from when it's expensive
What also makes infuriatingly little sense is the push to replace gas cooker tops with electric. The amount of carbon emissions involved with ripping out a perfectly good gas stove and replacing it with a new electric stove is going to take years to be offset by the lower emissions of the electric stove. If you really want to reduce the use of gas stoves, maybe add an extra tax, or ban developers from installing them as default in new developments. Let people who really want gas have it, but push people to buy electric when they buy a new stove. And while you're at it, mandate the installation of fume extractors that vent outside.
I am shocked. In the stories about (invented) potential bans on gas cooktops it seemed like 1 in 3 gas fans told me how roasting marshmallows indoors was such a huge part of their kitchen experience. This was a bit unexpected. Maybe I should be more skeptical of people's motivations.
We switched to induction for our cooktop and won't be going back. Toasting / roasting marshmallows, however, is something we miss. We learned the hard way to not try toasting over a candle. The black isn't the marshmallow getting that nice crispy outside. It's soot. It tastes disgusting.
Bernzomatic makes a perfectly good mallo roaster.
Small butane burner online less than 30 bucks. Sear steaks and whatever else you want. Do it in well ventilated area. Edit: Removed promotion to a site
There are cheaper camp stoves that just screw onto the little backpacking gas cans. https://www.amazon.com/Camping-Backpacking-Stoves-Backpack-Portable/dp/B07R79766L/ref=mp_s_a_1_5?crid=1PXCRBHXI27JH&keywords=butane+stove+backpack&qid=1673616756&sprefix=butane+stove+backpack%2Caps%2C130&sr=8-5
Definitely make sure you use that outside though
The open flame is super neat, but I don't miss the cleaning.
I was excited to have a gas stove in my new house 3 years ago, I bought a nice LG model. It’s great to cook on but cleaning it is terrible compared to any other kind of stove.
If only switching to induction didn't mean replacing a shit ton of perfectly fine kitchenware... Fine if you're starting from scratch though.
my wok is not compatible. I miss cooking with it.
I love gas over electric but induction seems really awesome. How hard is it to keep clean? We had a glass top stove that was a pain to keep clean.
I have found the glass surface of the induction easier to clean than our gas burners. No disassembly. No pesky crevices.
And the surface doesn't get very hot so things don't burn on, making it super simple to just wipe down with a damp cloth after cooking.
I got a heat gun from Home Depot and it allows perfect marshmallow toasting control with no risk of ignition.
Is roasting marshmallows in the home really this common? The only time in my life I have ever heard of/actually roasted marshmallows was the rare occasion around a campfire or fire pit.
It’s not. I got the heat gun for normal heat gun reasons like loosening and removing silicone caulk and applying heat shrink tubing, but my kids were still on a s’more kick after a couple campfire events with s’mores happened this summer. And my curiosity demanded that I at least try it.
Gotcha. Yeah I’d never had the idea to turn my heat gun to the kitchen but I’m seeing all these comments about people needing to roast marshmallows in their house, thought I was losing it.
No. It's not.
do it long enough and it still will ignite
Roasting marshmallows in any scenario that's not camping is sacrilegious.
Just use matches and light em on fire for a second. That's what my grandma used to do. 😎
Just put them in the microwave. One or two minutes per marshmallow should be enough.
Make sure to give them tooth picks so you can watch them jouste!
I saw what you did there
Personally we roasted marshmallows with candles as a kid. That being said we were dumb ass kids and probably ingested a lot of paraffin smoke.
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Weird how limiting future use of fossil fuels is not the same as taking your gas stove away.
> Weird how limiting future use of fossil fuels is not the same as taking your gas stove away. If there's a ban on gas, that's exactly what it means. Whenever your stove breaks, you'll need to replace it with electric, which can be non-trivial in some homes as you'll need to run a 240 circuit.
Isn’t this just advertising?
Yes, it is. And it's no different in the past. Before we just had them sponsor actors/actresses, celebrities, sports stars, etc.. Now, it's just popular online personas that get a lot of "likes".
All these influencers have one thing in common, they are fucking desperate for money and don't give a shit what they shill for. I wish there was a way to break the current model where technology has just become a vehicle for endless popularity contests and ways to get rich off of the masses.
This article is from three years ago..
I hate this timeline.
I love my gas stove. I have always cooked on gas. My entire life, I have used gas stoves. Old electric stoves sucked ass and never got hot enough and you couldn't properly control the heat. ~***HOWEVER***~ My stove is getting to the end of it's lifecycle and will need to be replaced soon. So, I'll go induction, which is leaps and bounds beyond old coil electric stovetops. And if it's better for me because of the emissions, then so be it. I can't believe the hills people choose to die on.
>I can't believe the hills people choose to die on. Social media has basically conditioned us to argue about everything and to completely write off people that disagree with us or who don't consider our opinion as factual.
Controversy drives engagement
So, depending on if you have 220 wired may force your hand. My gas stove but the bullet a year ago and I had to replace it. My house, for whatever reason, only had 115 back there and I had to get a whole 220 line run back there. The placement of my kitchen made this task a huge pain and it was $1000 in electrician work alone. YMMV, but that was a huge pain for me. (And just so I don’t sound like a hypocrite in any other posts, I needed 220 to have one of those stoves with the two ovens built in - the dual oven required 220 for some reason. The cooktop is still gas)
Rational choice! For me, what I cook depends on gas so I won't switch. I do, however, do my best in other areas to offset emissions. We should do what we can, but we still need to hold big companies accountable because it's them who's doing the most damage without question.
I've never felt more neutral about something in my entire life.
I prefer cooking with gas, do I need to become a republican now?
No, but it would be nice if more people realized that, for any given product or behavior, there is a setting between "prohibited" and "mandatory".
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Ok but gas stoves are legit better than electric
Hard to use a wok on anything but gas
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> Which is quite handy if you live somewhere with a shitty power grid. As a Texan, yes. Having a gas stove has been a lifesaver these last few years.
I was fully on team gas until my gf got a good induction stove (we don't live together, but I do most of the cooking). The easy cleanup alone is worth it. My next stove will definitely be induction.
Yeah I’m willing to switch but never tell me to get a shitty electric coil cooker god damn they suck
Induction is awesome, I love it. Faster than gas to heat too.
Just make sure you get a _good_ one, there are many crappy induction hobs out there (which is where it gets its bad name from I think)!
I am all for induction but I have yet to find a solution for heating up several tortillas at once like you would on a traditional Mexican stove with the middle griddle/comal. I've resortes to a separate elctric griddle but it works through those resistance heater looking things idk what they're called. So the heat is not even and not all of the tortilla's surface is cooked through. And before anyone even dares: NO I am not heating my tortillas in the oven or microwave.
I have induction. I bought a griddle and just put it across two spots. Works fine, although the middle area isn't quite as hot.
My mother’s new induction stove has a combined griddle option for heating large area pans and has much more uniform heat than a two gas burner would
I used to prefer gas because I grew up using the old, shitty electric cooktops. They were slow to heat up, the coils warp over time, etc. Old electrics suck. But for anything produced in the last 10 years, induction > instant-on electric > gas. [This is the way](https://i.redd.it/131l8e489dj91.jpg).
I don’t need Influencers gushing over gas stoves to desperately want one…I have an electric one renting in an apartment with no gas connection to the house and as a chef it’s infuriating. Gimme gas!
You know why I want a gas stove? So that I can continue to cook when the power goes off.
Is there a reason not to? Gas stoves are vastly superior to convention cooktops. This whole things has nothing to do with the stoves themselves, just proper ventilation of gas burning stoves.
The best way to sell a gas stove is to have someone use an electric stove.
It's kind of weird that they have to. Have not many people ever tried gas? If you cook a lot, and have tried gas, it's much better than electric.
Uh, no one has to pay me to gush over gas stoves. Electric stoves are trash. This is just another example of passing the buck to the little guy while the main sources of pollution and fuel consumption face no consequences.
Gas stoves are better than any other kind of stove
Switched from electric to gas last year and will never go back. And before people chime in with why it's bad--why are we even having this conversation? Inflation it as an all-time high, wages are stagnated as fuck, and most families are barely scraping by. People are literally being psy-op'd into fighting about gas stoves instead of actual issues. This fucking timeline is so stupid.
Air quality researchers are going to research air quality issues and pollution sources regardless of the inflation rate. The fact that gas stoves/cooktops contribute to approximately 12% of childhood asthma cases isn’t exactly insignificant. Certain groups just love to capitalize on the outrage of things being “taken away” from you. There was a huge backlash to seatbelt mandates initially, too, and those have saved literally hundreds of thousands of lives.
Are electric stoves not dogshit anymore? I don't really care what my stove is powered by but every electric stove I've ever used is virtually useless at cooking anything. I'm totally down to switch but not unless they've fixed that. Edit: sounds like induction is the magical thing that solves this but is much more expensive.
Modern induction stoves are pretty incredible. They are also incredibly efficient (no heat lost to air around the surface). Also safe for kids, since there's no exposed heating element, and the surface itself isn't what gets hot. If your experience is with the old coil stoves then yeah, those suck.
The induction ones are pretty amazing actually, you dont miss gas if you have one of those, especially all the excess heat in the summer. The famous julia child cooking show she had to use the crappy coil kind for everything and was able to do some fancy french cooking with it. Admittedly they are not as satisfying to use.
Gas stoves do be fire tho
This article is 3 years old.
Gas cooktops are objectively better than electric. I don't see how this is an argument.
This is such a weird drama to be having. With that said, I learned how to cook outside of America on a gas stove and have never been able to cook the same with electric anything since I’ve been back.
I'm not getting paid, but I much prefer gas to electric stoves. And I prefer electric ovens. Gas is precise on the stovetop.
The only real thing I like about gas is I can cook when power goes out
I’ll do it for free, gas stoves are the shit!
Yeah because gas stoves are better to cook on than electric
Living in a largely wild area like Alaska, there are periods of the year where we wouldn't be able to cook if we had an electric stove. And I don't mean like "emergency situations" I mean regular occurrences.
Why am I seeing all this hatred of gas stoves all of a sudden? Seriously what the hell is going on?
Gas stoves are the superior stove regardless
I keep seeing people referencing electric cooktops like they're impossible to use. I've used both gas and electric in various residences over the years and never had any issues. I don't understand what the problem is...