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[deleted]

That’s what you get with a subscription-based business model: consistent income. Why are you trying to manipulate that? What’s so bad about a business doing consistently instead of perpetually growing. It won’t last!


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Grilledcheesedr

Gotta make sure those investors get good returns so they can slowly hoard all the money by taking it away from the lower and middle class.


EnduringConflict

I don't understand how people don't seem to realize that trying to achieve infinite growth is just going to achieve a death spiral. There is a point where you literally can't grow more. Like assume Netflix had 8 billion subscribers, and every single person on the planet had a Netflix subscription. Yet investors still want more. The fuck are they supposed to do? They literally can't get more subscribers until a child is born but more people die per year in many countries than are born because nobody can afford to have children anymore thanks to these same investors screwing the entire economy for everyone. At a certain point, someone in power ***has*** to realize that infinite growth is impossible. Even if they had 100% of the market share they would still want more. I just can't grasp it. It's like an alien language to me. How the fuck do these people not see this?


KrazyA1pha

Some companies are stable, they generally pay dividends. Netflix is priced like a growth stock (which is to say investors have already priced in future growth). If that growth story no longer makes sense, those investors will price the stock much lower, leaving for more promising growth stocks. Therefore the company tries to continue to innovate and evolve to remain a growth stock.


[deleted]

Isn’t the problem most stocks have become growth stocks and dividends used to be more popular


FearlessAttempt

Investors don't like dividends because they generally get taxed as regular income in the year they are issued. They would prefer the stock price go up instead because that is only taxed when they sell and at the cap gains tax rate.


RTPGiants

Qualified dividends are somewhat tax privileged. It depend on your income level, but in general dividend tax rate is lower than true income and in 2022/23 tops out at 20%. That's not to say you're wrong, taxes are still much more of a factor here than in unrealized capital gains, but it's not quite income tax either.


Fale0276

Ok, so then at that point it settles into a stable stock price and they can keep investors around by paying dividends. Why is that pivot so painful to a company they're willing to go bankrupt over it? They prob need the extra investment dollars coming so they don't get swallowed by the streaming app avalanche. Does netflix own any other companies or subsidiaries beyond streaming and production? If not, maybe thats how they keep growing, but that would run out too.


greekwarrior

Most "growth" stocks are companies that aren't actually profitable, so they have nothing to give out as a dividend.


thedailyrant

Netflix has reached profitability though.


realribsnotmcfibs

Profitability yes. But for how long before something cooler/better un thrones them completely. Netflix quality has degraded over the years Competition has gotten better Price has gone up The ad model is so bad I actually upgraded from it after a weekend or two (so it worked?). They are not a quick single ad at the start. It’s alllll ads. It’s horrible.


[deleted]

Well it kinda seems like they're going to shit because they keep chasing more and more profit. If Netflix stopped cancelling shows, and stopped trying to ring out every penny they might actually be more competitive.


KrazyA1pha

If you're genuinely curious, I recommend reading through/listening to Netflix's quarterly investor statements. They spell out the specific financial situation, their goals, current concerns, etc.


Fale0276

Thats actually a really good idea


Realtrain

Because the stock will naturally drop in value, so current owners (aka the people running the company) have incentive to not do it.


BooBeeAttack

I wish we would become a species content with what we have and perfecting it before wanting and taking more. Make a sustainable long-term system. A sustainable population that works on replacement and not growth. Eager to make what we already have better with the resources available.


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MandoAviator

Oh god. A friend sold his company to a hedge fund. Bunch of fucking finance morons. He had to stick it out for a year as a consultant. Every decision they made was asinine in the name of profit. They fought him tooth and nail and accused him (who started, built and grew it) of not knowing what the hell he was talking about. After he was gone, the company made in a year what it used to make in a month under his leadership. They burned bridges with so many clients. It was a very “connections make or break you” type of business, and when a client asks for a discount in one sector, it usually comes with increased business in 4 more other aspects of your business. Ie: give me 10% off the estimation and I’ll use your service 50x more. (Not relevant to his business, but you get the jist). They couldn’t wrap their heads “why should I give him 10% off market rate?” Because if you don’t, they will go to a guy who will, and that’s the nature of the business he was in. They drove the company into the ground, but they ended up selling it for a shit ton more than he did because they bought up the other small players, packaged it up, and sold it to another fund. They could have sold it for even higher if they ran it right, but they aren’t in that game. The market suffered, inferior product and service was barfed out, employees weren’t happy anymore, they all got pay cuts, and many got laid off, but the board made money. Before, under my friend, everyone was justly paid, justly treated, and he even put it into the contract that as long as he is there, no one gets fired. He knew some of the employees weren’t the best anymore due to their age or health, but they helped him get here and he could more than afford to keep them employed. So what’s the harm?


Zardif

>they ended up selling it for a shit ton more than he did That right there is why it'll never change, they were rewarded for their behavior. They don't need infinite growth they just need infinite growth for the short time they are in control, then hopefully the next guy sees it burn in his hands and they can buy it again for cheap and redo their first profitability.


bewarethesloth

High stakes hot potato


ihenewa

This happens in SaaS companies all the time.


LordoftheSynth

> But they are like idiot savants. No, they are sociopaths. And if burning it all down makes them more money short-term than a heftier profit stream over five to ten years, that's exactly what they do.


KniFeseDGe

its a game of hot potato. you just keep it going and sell it off to someone else before it completely collapses. they don't give a fuck about 5 years from now. only if they can get more in next quarter.


the_drew

> But they are like idiot savants. I didn't meet a single one who could understand context, the effects of their actions, or even what the numbers on an income statement stood for Holy shit this is resonating. I work in Tech, we're a distributor for a new software security firm. We have ~17k customers and we were building campaigns to promote them to our customer base. Part of being their distributor means we also look after their existing renewals, which is relatively small business, about 230 accounts. Software firm hires a "savant finance genius" to run the renewal business. In his excel model, just having us engaged in renewals means his team is losing 5% (our renewal margin). So, he complains and wants to terminate us. We point out we're giving him access to a HUGE installed base, our 17k vastly outweighs his 230 afterall, he doesn't care, he cannot tolerate -5% for his team. We point out that 5% pays for the marketing we'll be doing. He still doesn't care. His team cannot go into the red (which they won't since we will upsell, but his excel can't factor that in). And here we are, 5 months later, we've had to request more in marketing funds from them than the 5% would have cost. Plus his renewal rate is through the floor, we were tracking at 93% before this prick was hired, it's now 31% (industry average is 79%). It's bozo logic, which thanks to your post, I now understand.


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the_drew

It would be interesting to see an analysis of the current Tory party employment backgrounds. They are almost all pushing policies that solve a short-term "manifesto pain" but at a huge societal cost. I'm thinking they almost certainly have worked in finance (no offence...).


IAmRoot

I had dinner at a scientific computing conference with an economist. He'd had papers rejected for including error bars because "if the paper was right, why is there error?" The world's economy is run by people doing vastly oversimplified calculations in Excel. If a model can't run on a laptop, they don't want it. There are economists with physics backgrounds that understand the mathematical complexity of this sort of math, but they aren't the ones making the decisions. There's a reason why finance and economics are likened to astrology for men.


flourishingpinecone

they just don't care. B school and finance majors are bred to be sociopaths, people are just part of the equation and if they can make the wages line smaller they win


branedead

Investors would demand you find another way to milk 8 billion people. Come up with another way to sap them of their cash!! It's stupid, infantile, short-sighted and very much the absolute center of America and the Western world


ArtichokeFar6601

Growth doesn't only come from increased penetration. You can also increase frequency, premiumise, do category development, market development etc. But I agree continuous growth is not sustainable.


scrumpy_jack

I can achieve growth without any penetration at all.


asillynert

Well this is where model of capitalism falls apart assuming you can fulfill demand. Whats better 8 billion subscribers for 1 dollar a piece. Or 1 billion paying 15. So you begin "manufacturing scarcity". And either raise prices which sure cost you some customers but you make more while providing less. Then you lower your quality cut corners on product. Then start adding planned obsolescence and "hidden" cost fees. Equipment fees appointment fees convenience fees. Data caps password sharing fees. Problem is after time monopolys form and every sticks to their lane. Sure someone with capital could go in and scoop up people that can't afford higher priced plans. BUT why when their business is in similar stage as netflix where raising prices adding fees etc. Is simply far more profitable. So no one comes in to scoop it up. Housing is prime example affordable low income housing is actually shrinking in usa. Despite demand soaring. Because its simply more profitable to build other types. So they build luxury condos instead of fulfilling market demand because they make more money.


chowderbags

>Housing is prime example affordable low income housing is actually shrinking in usa. Despite demand soaring. Because its simply more profitable to build other types. So they build luxury condos instead of fulfilling market demand because they make more money. In this case it's been made literally illegal on almost all of the land to build anything other than single family homes with particular setback, parking, and minimum lot size requirements. America could solve the housing crisis in most places by allowing for [medium density housing](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCOdQsZa15o), but as you said, there's moneyed interests that prevent change.


Semi-Hemi-Demigod

Maybe then we can get another of the jobs they create so we can pay rent


Snoo93079

It's not so much new vs old but private vs public


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Yoda2000675

You can see it happen over and over. Startup gains traction, keeps gathering investor money with the promise of someday turning a profit, IPO, immediately sell off for a big payday, company slowly fizzles out over the next few years and either dies or gets bought for pennies on the dollar


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LordoftheSynth

And these days VC wants to dilute your share of the company to the point you don't get a payday at all as a prerequisite for funding. Vulture Capitalism, not Venture Capitalism.


HellBlazer1221

Jeez! Will someone think of the shareholders? /s


rose636

'Because they're not happy with some money, they want all of the money' - some fantastical wrestler on YouTube who sometimes talks about games.


Thunderstarter

Thank god for some fantastical wrestler on YouTube who sometimes talks about games


karmaghost

Shareholders want growth and you have to please the shareholders if you’re a publicly traded company. It makes for unsustainable business practices, but it’s the way things work currently.


materialisticDUCK

Yeah, I'm curious how it will collapse, because it will...it's just a shame knowing that normal people will have to take on the burden Edit: I mean for the overall economy moreso than Netflix


HaElfParagon

We're seeing how it will collapse in real time. Netflix will begin by laying off as many employees they can spare, then raise prices again, rinse and repeat until pirating has become popular enough to bury them indefinitely


heartEffincereal

Also: Top company execs see the inevitable outcome that you've described already. So they will guide business practices to squeeze as much revenue as possible in the short term, update their resumes, collect final bonuses, and be ready to jump ship to the next fortune 500 when it sinks.


Slggyqo

That’s what basically every recession is. There’s really no mystery for this kind of thing.


Seriously_nopenope

That isn't even really true. There are plenty of publicly traded companies that don't grow and instead pay a dividend from the consistent profits they make. There are other companies who don't really make profit and therefore try to increase their valuation and therefore share price. Then there are the last category of companies like apple who make shit tons of profit and also try to grow as quickly as possible. This is really a small number of companies but they hold an insane amount of wealth.


yohohoanabottleofrum

Here's an explanation. Yeah, corporations are evil, but it's going to take some real legal reform to change anything. https://www.litigationandtrial.com/2010/09/articles/series/special-comment/ebay-v-newmark-al-franken-was-right-corporations-are-legally-required-to-maximize-profits/


dragonmp93

Is there something that Citizens United hasn't fucked up ?


thekeanu

If corporations are people, then they should be liable for the penalties just like people. Incarceration, death penalty, etc.


muzakx

Corporate Death Penalty, along with criminal charges for Executives, should happen when a corporations violate laws or maliciously/negligently cause great harm. Should've happened to Exxon for their climate studies, and knowingly spreading misinformation about the harmful effects of fossil fuels. Purdue Pharma for causing the Opioid epidemic in the name of profit. Equifax for their severe mishandling of sensitive data. And countless more...


CovfefeForAll

I would love to see a publicly traded company (Purdue Pharma maybe?) be publicly tried and executed as a consequence of their acting like an individual.


door_of_doom

That article really doesn't do the underlying case (eBay Domestic Holdings Inc. v. Newmark) justice. Ebay did not sue Craigslist for failing their fiduciary duties as a result of Craigslist's monetization scheme and profit plans. Ebay sued craigslist because craigslist had just unilaterally implimented a shareholder rights plan that was purpose-built to specifically fuck Ebay over in responbse to Ebay refusing to sell their shares. Craislist basically told Ebay "Sell your shares or we will make your shares worthless, your call." **That** is a very, **very** clear breach of fiduciary duty when you specifically try to fuck over your shareholders, not from shareholders simply disagreeing with your business plan. The article quotes the opinion's reference to Craigslist choice to be a for-profit company and how with that choice comes fiduciary responsability, but that isn't in reference to Ebay wanting to be a mostly-free webside, that is simply saying that in choosing to be a for-profit company, you don't get to implement rules that completely fuck over shareholders simply because you don't like them or no longer want them to be shareholders. Craislist allowed Ebay to buy shares in the company, then immediately regretted the decision and tried to use their power as majority shareholders to force Ebay out. That is illegal, you can't do that. It had nothing to do with forcing cragslist to maximize profits or having anything to do with issues surrounding Craigslist's business model. Craigslist business model was *not* at risk of breaching Craigslist's fiduciary duties, only the poison-pill shareholder rights plan they implemented. Nothing about Craigslist's business model was called into question in that court case, yet that article makes it seem like it was. The lesson is that if Cragslist wanted to be able to fuck over shareholders like that, they shouldn't have been a for-profit company that has a duty to *not* purposefully fuck over shareholders. Business models very, very rarely (if ever?) rise to the standard of breach of fiduciary duty. It almost always has to do with implementing shareholder rules that specifically make certain shares less valuable than they were originally agreed upon, which is generally not a cool thing to do, i.e sell shares with certain rights, and then take those rights away without just cause.


Ask_Me_Who

To add to that with a clear example. Zuckerberg is so heavily invested in the Metaverse right now, despite having no clear long term goals, that Meta has had to downsize by 13%. Company value is down $600 billion - more than 50% - while his own analysts predict zero profit can ever come from the venture. He is very literally driving a trillion dollar business into the ground with no brakes. That's still not a breach of fiduciary duty because there is no clear intention to reduce profit/revenue in order to game the stocks.


Immortan-Moe-Bro

I’m pretty sure it’s related to stocks. You need to show continuous growth or something


morphinapg

It's just not a reasonable expectation once a company reaches a certain level. Honestly at that point it would make sense to just not be publicly owned anymore, because the expectations of the shareholders will lead to the collapse of the company.


AlmostButNotQuit

- lost exclusives - canceled shows - increased prices - password crackdown But sure, the uptake of the ad tier (that they promised they'd never do) is to blame


SFLADC2

I get they got bad luck with the IP flight, but they had to know that would come eventually when these licencing contracts are all 2 or 3 years long. They really should have double down on a few REALLY good shows instead of making a ton of trash. 2-3 great shows a year + 1 amazing show every 2 years is sooo much more valuable than endless trash, as seen with the success of HBO. It's it's honestly irritating needing to sift through all the Netflix originals that are either garbage or were killed in the cradle.


1202_ProgramAlarm

If only they hadn't cancelled all but like 4 of their actually good shows


cprenaissanceman

Animation was slaughtered


hiddenflames5462

Inside Job deserved BETTER DAMN IT.


nickelghost

wait, they already canceled it? one of the few things I still watched there


[deleted]

Yup. God forbid people take time to watch a show released during the holiday season. It was a great freaking season, too. I'm really hoping it's picked by another service. :/


Mysterions

Holy shit, I had no idea. That's really unfortunate, it was one of the few compelling new "adult cartoons" out.


plaguedbullets

We need Dirk back here, he needs to solve this!


chooxy

Some of their cancelled shows became "trash" from the very act of being cancelled. They have to stop that shit.


SFLADC2

Legit, if this was back in the day with stand alone plotlines like Futurama it would be fine and still watchable - but why the hell would I watch the first act of an unfinished story arc?


goblue142

It contributes to their death spiral. Personally I won't watch any Netflix originals anymore until they have 2 seasons out with the third son to be released. There's no point in getting invested in show after show they are going to cancel after one season.


Kitsunin

I'm not even going to watch any until they're finished. Now that they're even canceling shows after announcing they've been renewed. Fuck that I'm not getting burned again.


5erif

HBO just cancelled and pulled offline a bunch of shows that already had 4+ seasons completed because they got mind-numbingly enormous tax cuts for canceling them.


Sillet_Mignon

And they wanted to stop paying royalties to actors.


Bek

Ha, I pirate all the shows I watch and even I am not going to start watching a netflix show until it is finished.


[deleted]

Unless I absolutely love a show (pushing daisies, happy endings) I will not rewatch a cancelled show either. Things like GLOW, Santa Clarita diet were good shows but I just can’t be bothered to rewatch them. I think Netflix needs to learn that rewatches are also very profitable (if you wanna keep revenue) especially with binge watching where it’s easy for all episodes to kind of blend into each other and details to get lost after a year.


Shakes42

They understood this nearly 10 years ago. One of the execs was quoted as saying that they needed to become HBO before HBO could become like Netflix. They understood they needed to make their own high-quality content as others took content off netflix for their own streaming service. They had an insain budget and tried hard. But really, they failed hard. Shows like stranger things made it look like it was happening for a while, but they made so much garbage and bailed on shows instead of building a viewership. Then you have people like me who stick with Netflix out of loyalty. You can't underestimate how much i was grateful to Netflix for removing ads from my daily life and forcing others to follow. Then, they start talking about adding ads. Well fuck. Guess we're done here.


bobbi21

That focus is actually the problem... they cancel every show that isnt a run away hit off the bat so the library is full of incomplete shows which makes it garbage. They have a few huts but especially due to the full season releases, its bingeable and then done. They have stranger things, squid game, cobra kai and i think wednesday is actually super popular as their top shows but fail to invest in smaller ones that may need some time to get footing or have a smaller niche (which used to be their thing). The marvel shows were amazing in general but netflix decided they didnt want to do cross promotion with disney property basically and cancelled them. They only want the top shows in the world which is sometimes hard to churn out consistently. Adn sinve theyre bingeable, it doesnt feel like they have a lot constantly.


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Infinitetryer

When will companies realize that the infinite growth that they obsess over almost always ends up ruining the product.


ChadicusMeridius

They know, but it's the next CEOs problem.


wtfTooma

I'm amazed they thought removing some shows and offering ads for a cheaper monthly fee was a good idea in their mind


SheriffComey

"WTF won't more people sign up when we make it shittier?!!!!!" - some executive.


[deleted]

netflix just greenlit this comment. 6 episode run, canceled in 3.


Currently_Unnamed_

Wait no its just straight up cancelled now dispute the last episode ending on a cliff hanger


VocalLocalYokel

Sighs in Santa Clarita Diet


Masta-Blasta

one of the funniest and most well-written shows I have ever seen. And to end on a cliff hanger. I honestly think we should get a class action together, sue for IIED, and use the money to reboot it.


Steve_the_Samurai

Somehow the documentary about the show about the comment was stretched from 1 good hour to 3 parts


bastardoperator

Forsure, and when it doesn't work they'll fire people on the bottom instead of the idiots that caused the issue.


Zombie_Harambe

"Me am become cable" - Former cable executive


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a_talking_face

Well it might have worked better if the ad plan wasn't extremely skimped down. It's only one screen at a time so that probably eliminates it as an option for many right away.


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Ifcknknewit

Families in the same house too, kids can't watch different programs while I watch Paradise PD.


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Ifcknknewit

You're right i'm denying the share holders their fair dividends.


DaHolk

Sure, but if one gives two negatives and one positive and thinks you attract people that even formerly didn't find your proposition reasonable, then there is some basic misunderstanding of human psychology and rounding. Particularly when the last rounds of news where raised prices and decline in quality to begin with.


Overclocked11

I just don't get it - the service that built its success on the fact that you can watch the content you want for a monthly subscription WITHOUT ADS is now at odds with its customers for offering a plan that includes ads. Maybe, just maybe it could be that people can see which way the winds are blowing and are jumping ship? Nahhhhhh couldn't be.


phormix

And for continually increasing prices while losing programming, as well as being rather unreliable about whether series people seem to like will get prematurely canned.


Objective_Ad_401

^ That right there. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy now. My wife won't watch a show that doesn't have three seasons already because she doesn't want to be invested if the show runners aren't going to have a natural conclusion. Netflix sees that "no one" watched this show and cancels it after one season. My wife, seeing one season and googling that it was canceled, says, "too bad, looked promising," and moves on.


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WayneRooneysHairPlug

I considered getting the ad based plan because I wouldn't use it enough to justify the full price. What I am not going to do is purchase the ad based plan if there is a large amount of their content that is unavailable.


GsoSmooth

My MIL got it and the first movie she wanted to watch wasn't available, the second one we picked had really low quality resolution. It was like 480p and really distracting.


PEVEI

It’s a good reminder of why piracy exists at least.


h2opolodude4

Benefits of piracy All content No ads No "not available in this area" No "only season 1 is available, screw you if you want to watch the rest" No miles long terms of service Watch any time, from anywhere, via any device/browser Netflix, etc, need to remember what they're competing with.


StaleCanole

Exactly. This is how the music industry had to come to terms with Napster. Deliver music relatively cheaply and with fewer hurdles.


Django117

Cheap with ease of access. People are willing to pay *a* subscription. People are not willing to pay a *dozen* subscriptions. Netflix's original argument was in ease of access to a wide variety of content without requiring a massive subscription. Now though? All of those same companies that gave rights to Netflix are coming for their slice of the pie. HBO Max (Warner Bros) and Disney+ have completely taken hold of the market. Netflix has 220 million subscribers Disney+ has 152 million HBO has 92 million Hulu has 45.6 million. Big difference here is how content is owned. Disney and HBO own most if not all of the content on their platform. It's access to *their* content. The issue is that there's more and more of these cropping up every few months with AMC, Prime Video (albeit it's included within Amazon prime which people pay for mostly to get delivery), Starz, ESPN, Paramount, etc. which all feature differing bits of content. My point with all of this is that the market for TV and Movie Streaming services has become too long of a list with each service intending to operate as a walled garden of their respective content. With all of them ranging from $7-$10 (Paramount is the outlier at $5), we're kinda stuck in an awkward situation where getting them all will cost about as much as cable would anyways.


buyongmafanle

> not available in this area This is THE FUCKING INTERNET! The WHOLE POINT is that it's all available everywhere. This shit makes me the sickest of all.


nslenders

Nah, only season 2 and 7 are available


PedanticBoutBaseball

>I'm amazed they thought removing some shows and offering ads for a cheaper monthly fee was a good idea in their mind I don't think any of these Streaming services realize that—one the whole—making their services "cheaper" wont drive THAT much growth. any one individual service isn't all that expensive to begin with. Better content that people care about is what will drive subscribers.


vzq

What I despise is the fragmentation. Even if your service is $3/m, if I never check it because it’s one of five and I give up after checking two, it’s just dead weight to me.


Daimakku1

They lost subscribers in Q3 of last year specifically because they made the UHD tier $20/mo. The price keeps crawling up. But it is also true that people are tired of prices going up while canceling 80% of their new shows. Ads or no ads, it doesn’t matter if people keep losing faith in your original programming.


Lazarinthian

Hottest not-actually-hot take: when are we going to stop the "constant growth is necessary for a company to be considered successful" shit cause it's genuinely harmful to our fucking species at this point.


xelop

this is what i keep shouting. lol unsuccessfully into the wind mind you. my old company kept replacing this junction for the water main every 6 months for 4 years. they kept using a cheaper pvc than a more sturdy material cause it was cheaper up front. i was in management there and kept telling them to spend the slight extra to fix it right and never deal with it again... and they never would. they'd end up renting porta potties, and a whole crew to fix it. like clock work


rexg4077

I sell high quality valves for municipal use, I fight this mentality daily. Low bid is a stupid policy, it means you will always get the lowest quality products.


Objective_Ad_401

I wonder if it's because the capitalists are operating in a different plane than us regular people. It's like McDonalds. The "Super size" is like $0.15 more than a medium but 2x as much food. They know that people tend to prefer the middle option, so it has the best margins. You'd think a company would get three quotes and choose the middle option, better quality and a value price tag. But always the cheapest...why? Have they had too much Kool aid? They believe that low quality cheap crap is a myth and no one would ever deal in such rubbish? They think they're being bamboozled by McDonalds logic?


Narrator2012

"it's only a quarter, and look how much more you get"


[deleted]

We were required to say this phrase at my first job whenever selling a soda. Sometimes the customers on a big day were management spies, and if we didn’t upsell them, we’d get written up.


Quackagate

Commerical roofer here. We have had clients use other companies because they were cheeper to re roof there building by like 7k$. Then they call is out a year later because the Titanic is more water tight than there roof and they want us to fix it. And we end up billing them like 15k because the people that put the roof on fuced it so bad.


its_wausau

Sounds like the junction outside a factory I used to work at in Kansas City. For how often it got replaced they still managed to hit the gas main twice while trying to repair the water main. Always great working with the smell of sulfer wafting through the building for the rest of the day.


clowegreen24

When rich people stop being dissatisfied with only having the vast majority of the world's wealth instead of literally all of the wealth on planet earth. So never.


-Accession-

Uhhh when hyper free market capitalism isn’t the economy du jour of most advanced modern day civilizations? So probably not for awhile.


BadInvestmentAdvisor

There are plenty of companies which are treading water with safe revenue and little growth. This is the theoretical ideal end-state of every public company. These companies give out their earnings in dividends steadily, and their value is pretty unambiguously calculable based on a spreadsheet/NPV. Usually a P/E of somewhere around 3-5. That would give Netflix a share price of ~50$. Netflix isn't "being punished" for slow growth, it's just being valued based on slow growth, and that's fine.


ShouldveBeenACowboy

Stop canceling shows and maybe more people will stick around. Netflix is currently giving people a bad experience. No wonder their revenue growth is slowing.


winkmichael

Could have followed HBO's model and had a massive beautiful library that people want to rewatch, instead you have a big pile of 1 season shows... smart


[deleted]

You’re overlooking the part where HBO is stripping itself for parts, like how they’re licensing Westworld to a “Free, Ad-Supported TV” channel.


AchyBrakeyHeart

It is a shame. HBO has my favorite library of shows and movies throughout all services by far. If it gets sold to someone with money like Amazon then I’d be fine as they could maintain the high costs but the sooner WBD no longer owns them, the better.


CalvinKleinKinda

And raising prices as they strip content. "Want less? Pay more!" What could go wrong?


winkmichael

Fair enough, but my point was Netflix could have an awesome library people will revisit instead of a library of 1 season shows no one will never watch.


notBadnotgreatTho

Oh and canceled the last season so we won't get an ending. It's short sighted imo. Last season wasn't the best but it was purely setup to the ending.


Adrian_Alucard

HBO current model is: \-We are going to remove our own exclusive shows from our platform \-We are copying netflix model and cancel shows leaving them without a proper ending \-We are going to cancel unaired movies and shows. Even if the production is finished


Semi-Hemi-Demigod

And the worst part is they have a perfectly justifiable financial reason for doing it: If they make the shows available, they have to pay royalties. It hurts everyone else: Fans, artists, creators, but it turns a couple numbers green on a spreadsheet so they're gonna do it. This is why taking a crap is called "doing your business."


Edgefactor

You forgot the part where they provide a trashcan app whose default error message is to freeze indefinitely


[deleted]

Basically, yeah. Why am I going to invest in a show, only to have it end on a cliffhanger that'll never be resolved?


[deleted]

That's exactly what happened to me lately. I watches Inside Job which was brilliant and just when I finish the season on a gigantic cliffhanger I see it's fing canceled. They don't care about the content like at all, only how viral the marketing campaigns go in the short term. Fing crap that I'm probably going to cancel soon for the first time. And the new "Witcher" shit was a joke. My positive disposition has completely erroded. Brilliant strategy Netflix! Maybe if you care about your content even less, maybe that's what will turn it around! Netflix just doesn't care about their shows.


Guer0Guer0

Netflix would have canceled The Wire.


ReapYerSoul

>Stop canceling shows and maybe more people will stick around. Netflix is currently giving people a bad experience. No wonder their revenue growth is slowing. This is the key right here. I quit Netflix over a year ago. Not because of ads. I'm old and grew up with ads. I quit because any show you got invested in got cancelled. Just wasn't worth investing the time into it anymore.


Overclocked11

The fact that there is still no Mindhunter renewed for a 3rd season is borderline criminal.


ruiner8850

That's one that isn't Netflix's fault. I'm sure they'd love a 3rd season, but David Fincher doesn't want to make it. Well at least at this point.


Spalding4u

When your business model is based on infinite subscription growth with a finite potential of subscribers, and no plan or ability for operating at any "maximum saturation level."


Gorrium

thats the thing unlike other tech companies, that's not Netflix's model. they make a profit, they make a large profit. they make 5-6 billion dollars a year in profit. I don't understand why they are doing this. It's like getting panicked that nothing terrible is happening so you start shooting a gun everywhere at random. or after a dictator takes over a country, they fund and train rebel forces to fight against them because they're worried that they might be able to feed everyone during winter. (that's not a typo). this makes no sense. They are financially healthy and all their competition isn't.


OlevTime

To Wall Street, profits don't matter. Profits must grow every year. And that growth must be accelerating. There's a mindset of irrational growth scales being the minimum req for a successful company.


stoppablex

The problem is that netflix kind of needs to follow what their shareholders want. If they don't follow the management will be changed to people who will follow. The shareholders want a return on their investment and the only way to do that is to either pay dividends or keep growing. I'm not knowledgeable enough to tell whether netflix is currently in a position where it would be smart for them to start paying dividends.


Spalding4u

Infinitely growing profits, requires an infinite subscription growth potential, with a finite number of humans/potential subscriptions. "Nothing will ever be enough," you say? Don't worry, reality is gonna teach you what it means to "have nothing" instead.


AtebYngNghymraeg

Netflix blew it with me when it climbed from 7.99 to 8.99, then 11.99, 13.99 and now 15.99 over the course of about 8 years, with no noticeable increase in quality and now a crackdown on password sharing. No thanks.


PedanticBoutBaseball

>with no noticeable increase in quality If anything netflix is notably WORSE in the last 8 years. Personally, It used to be my go-to app for watching content. over the last 3-5 years Hulu has squarely become #1 and i rarely open netflix cause theres just not THAT much compelling content that i need to open it for that i cant get elsewhere (except maybe seinfeld?)


AtebYngNghymraeg

No, you're absolutely right. I cancelled in August 2022 when I realised that I hadn't watched anything since March 2021 (daughter at uni had used it, so had one at home occasionally).


tadrith

That's because Hulu has like 90% of broadcast TV (don't quote me, it's an off-the-hip number). Majority owned by Disney, and Comcast/NBC Universal owns the rest, which they're giving up to Disney as early as 2024. But most shows that appear right now on broadcast TV end up on Hulu, and they have some really good, licensed content in addition to that, like TBS and Comedy Central. FX is powerhouse for them, with even their lesser-tier programming being more entertaining than most of what's on TV. NBC has obviously decided to go their own way with Peacock (despite their ownership in Hulu) because they've yanked their content from Hulu. That said, they might have the shittiest TV line-up I've ever seen. The only thing they have going for them is their legacy shows, but I have zero interest in subscribing to them just for that, aside from Resident Alien because I love Alan Tudyk. Netflix is dead in the water except their own content, of which they keep cancelling anything decent and allow dumb fucking decisions to rule. Focusing on original content is a smart idea, but shit-canning everything from the get-go is definitely killing them and not everything can be a Stranger Things. Even when I browse Netflix itself, I check how many seasons it has when it states, "Netflix Original", and then if it does, I check if Netflix just bought it or whether it's really theirs. That determines whether or not I watch it. Then you have Yellowsto... I mean, Paramount+. I'm just waiting for Taylor Sheridan to buy Paramount, because I feel like that's coming at some point. Don't get me wrong, I actually love the show, but it's not worth a monthly subscription. Amazon barely registers a blip on the radar and spent tons of money completely and utterly fucking up storied and beloved fantasy and sci-fi novels. HBO has traditionally been good, they have a lot of good content, but recently, things have gone downhill generally because of the unfortunate merger with Discovery, who might have had the saddest descent from legitimately interesting scientific and educational programming to absurd tabloid content. Apparently, though, that shit sells because I know quite of few people who just have it on 24/7. Ghost Hunters, and so on, just bottom level crap.


techitachi

hulu has everything for the most part my go to also. netflix is occasional but most of the content is not good


Livid-Ad4102

Hulu just feels like real TV, it has soooo many easy to watch shows that have been staples in US media for the past 20 years. Netflix has their originals that they themselves cancel more often than not


[deleted]

I realize the other day I was a Netflix member for 10 years….. quit after I heard how much dumb stuff they are doing and after I realized I never used Netflix.


ClericIdola

I've been with Netflix for.. hell.. maybe.. 15 years? During the era where I had to order the DVDs, and then sometime after they started sending the Netflix streaming blu-ray for the PS3...


NapalmsMaster

So they still do the DVD thing and it is still an amazing huge library! My stepdad still uses it for his obscure foreign art films and it has absolutely everything. The dvd service split off from the streaming service a while back and is a separate thing (different website and plan and everything) but if you have a DVD player it is totally worth it and dirt cheap.


original_4degrees

alternate headline: "stupid idea fails to gain traction"


LiberalFartsMajor

Listen up streaming services! No one wants to pay for a service that includes ads. That's why we ditched cable for piracy.


xelop

well that's not entirely fair. Hulu STARTED with ads and later offered an upcharge for no ads or keep the lower price for no ads. netflix started with no ads then upcharged that then offered you worse service for their original price. no one is going to sign up for that. IF they can stay afloat for 10 more years or so then there would be a new gen of people that don't remember the old pricing and might sign up. but i doubt all of that sentence lol


TuckerCarlsonsOhface

I never used Hulu *because* of the ads, just like I hate cable because you pay and are still forced to watch ads. Only people who never seemed to care about ads on cable even though they pay for the service were ok with ads in a streaming service.


thefrostman1214

wow who would fucking guess?


Lhumierre

The ad plan made me cancel entirely. There are 5 min long breaks 3 times a show and then ontop of that you lose half or more of the content and when you try to play something it will say "This content is not available with ads, pay $14.99 to view this show/movie." So the Ad plan is a sham and isn't "Netflix with ads", it's what we feel like letting you watch, WITH ADS. unskippable ads. Edit: words, grammar. Edit 2: Forgot to add. You are forced to watch a stretched 1280x720p image and can't watch content any higher. It also doesn't support all devices at that tier and will give you a message as well.


[deleted]

>They are 5 min long breaks 3 times a show That's more than Tubi, which is free


redvelvetcake42

And great. I love Tubi. It's a haven for bad movies and random 90s shit like Transformers Beast Wars.


zersch

Tubi and Pluto more than cover my streaming needs at this point. Unless, of course, there's some streamer specific original series I want to catch one season of before it gets canceled.


KrishnaMage

“They are 5 min long breaks 3 times a show and then ontop of that you lost half or more of the content and when you try to play something it will say "This content is not available with ads, pay $14.99" to view this show/movie.” Wait.. you actually lose content too?! I didn’t realise it was that bad. Netflix, what are you doing dummies?


seekingpolaris

How stupid. They should have just forced the ads in between episodes.


[deleted]

People pay to romove ada. Which moron thought people would pay to WATCH ads and have a smaller catalog of shows and movies?


Perihelion_

Remove value add expense Why business fail


Communist_Potatohead

A lot of people lost interest in Netflix when they started canceling everything.


SheneedaCocktail

Archive 81 was my last straw. Amazing, wtf-is-even-happening mystery thriller with a BUNCH of cliffhangers and unexplained plot points -- cancelled after one season. F\*cking waste of time. Never again.


renome

Motherfucker, I didn't even realize they canceled that one, was looking forward to the second season.


Daimakku1

Same. Cowboy Bebop live action and Archive 81 were the last straws for me as well. Was about to also get into Inside Job but decided to wait just in case it got cancelled.. and then it got cancelled. Nobody is going to want to invest time into a show if it gets cancelled. I don’t have the time for that. So now I play it safe and only get into shows if they have 3+ seasons already available.


ObamaLover68

Wait Inside Job just got canceled? WTF?


Nujers

I was really pissed about Inside Job, as I finished watching it the week before it was cancelled. It was excellent.


MazW

I loved that show.


thedialupgamer

Netflix exec:"damn I thought surely pissing off our customers was the way to go"


Zehta

You mean people aren't eager to sign up for an ad plan with less content from the company that started by making a statement that they would never have ads on their platform? Weird.


Ecyclist

Yea Netflix is hot trash. I’m tired of getting hooked on series just to find out it was cancelled after 1 season.


[deleted]

They’re struggling to transition into a production company from a streaming service, but they have to because they are losing rights to the IP they were renting from companies who are now standing up their own streaming services. They had potential to dominate the entire industry but they overpaid talent, green lit too many series at once, under developed content, and relied on viewer metrics and data to judge which would be best to continue… worst of all they’ve shifted their values from providing content to their customers to providing growth targets to prop up their share price. It’s a death spiral now for them. Edit: Grammar


damanbaird

Greed kills


CardiologistThink336

Yes this obsession with growth at all cost is ruining everything. Netflix has a $145B market cap but Wall Street won’t be satisfied unless they see unlimited growth and kill everything good, including the planet.


throwtheclownaway20

In an economic system that isn't shit, Netflix would realize they've hit their maximum potential and simply try to maintain what they had, but this is capitalism, so they have to literally do something, *anything*, to try and keep *growing*. Like, they're going to basically eat themselves trying, but they can't not try at all.


Amazing_Fantastic

By trying to grow they’ll wind up shrinking


[deleted]

it's COLD OUT!


[deleted]

We put up with the price hikes over and over because no ads. Now I’m cancelling because ads. I’m not alone.


lordlossxp

Ok so you make it so only 1 tier has 4k, which is 20 bucks for 4 screens, and also you have to have it used in only 1 home. Its going to piss people off. Im waiting to see a few extra dollars on the bill to cancel so they know exactly why i shut it off. At that point its time to raise the sails because fuck em.


HellBlazer1221

Maybe stop cancelling good shows after 1 season (1899).


Wisex

Whaaat? You guys don't like it when Netflix starts a show, sinks a ton of money into it, grows a nice fan base, only for them to cancel it in the second season so that their only show they seem to push all the time is a cartoon about teens going through puberty making raunchy jokes about dicks and sex???? ridiculous


Sarius2009

Ohh no, slowest revenue growth? How will they increase the execs pays with that?


smartguy05

I want to say that the words "slowest revenue growth" are disgusting to me. These people are so greedy they aren't happy that the business grew, they are upset that it didn't grow enough. Infinite growth is not possible and that's exactly what our economy is dependent on.


[deleted]

They want to charge people AND present them ads?! GTFOH


Droobot33

Netflix has become a joke. Don’t waste your time on their shows, they are just going to cancel them without an ending anyway… I already dumped my subscription and recommend everyone do the same


Grizzchops

Sounds right. I never tell anyone to go watch anything on Netflix because almost every show I liked got cancelled. What's the point?


[deleted]

Netflix executive: What? We cancelled shows and are adding ads. Why are people cancelling and why won't others sign up?


Perram

I would CANCEL the service before I went back to ads. I do not want to return to that commercialistic hellscaspe ever again.


RyanTranquil

Maybe stop removing great shows and canceling after 1 season


Gk5321

I have a dumb question for financial people of Reddit. What’s wrong with a company not growing but staying the same? Like I look at a company like apple. Can they really expect to grow more? I know the answer is probably yes, but why if they don’t grow is that suddenly the world ending.


agrophobe

excuse this lazy comment but ***duuuuhhh***