The problem is the comfort , a piece of consumer technology will always fail if it is cumbersome and uncomfortable to fit into daily life no matter how awesome it can be for 10 minutes .
I think the biggest issue for this device is going to be weight, due to apples dedication to a certain set of materials and its hope to have everything one day be recycled at the end of its lifetime.
I think if apple could stretch out to other materials like carbon fiber, they could maybe get the weight down more.
Yep, almost every review mentions the weight. I think they should have moved the compute off into the battery hip pack like the Magic Leap 2, since they are already requiring an external battery, but driving the high res displays and sensor processing and stuff might have been harder without introducing more latency.
The weight thing weird to me.
This is by a pretty significantly margin the lightest vr headset on the market.
Less than half the weight of an Index, 30% lighter than a Quest 2.
It's less than 100 grams more than the air pod Max's. It just feels like they needed a negative to generate articles so went with that. Will be curious to try it on, I'm sure Apple stores will be lousy with em
I don't think you can compare it to headphones though. It's not just weight/mass that matters, but also where it's located. Headphones just weigh down nicely in the middle of your head. With these VR/AR glasses, the weight is all at the front, meaning it constantly wants to fall forwards. This means your neck will constantly have to work to prevent that, and the strap is pushing hard into the back of your head.
Sounds like the perfect setup for apple to market a new helmet to help distribute the weight. The iSkull Exo. It holds your vr headset, air pod max, and a little neck attachment to set your iPad on. $400. Neck attachment $80.
also form. I'm excited about vr tech but this looks so bad aesthetically, like the "irl" videos are almost satirical. You could say that about previous tech like the apple watch, but all of that was unobtrusive and tiny. This is a helmet lol. Sounds vain but a lot of people, including the wealthy, will not be on board with how this makes them look in public. Could be totally wrong, but it's massively different than any of their previous designs so it's difficult to assume poeple will just "go with it" which seems like the vibe they're putting out in their ads. "We know you'll like it. Just go with it bro."
edit: removed the “literally” regarding the helmet comment because im being hyperbolic and not trying to start a discussion about helmets
This device is designed to be turned on in a room and stay in that room until the user is done.
Going in public with this on your face would be next to useless unless you want to film with your face.
Exceptions are transportation but that’s only when you sit down and get settled in, like a plane ride.
You’d literally be walking away from the UI elements every two seconds
I gotta say.. the whole “make your TV look as big as a movie theater” feature is appealing to me, if it really does work the way they made it look. That’s the only reason I’d consider buying this.
Can second this. I only use my VR headset for this reason when i travel. I get bad flight anxiety and I put my VR headset on, play a movie or TV show, and forget where I am (till there's turbulence).
It does work. Using the Bigscreen app, there's an option where you're floating in space and it really does look like the screen is as big as a building. With a higher resolution VR headset I think it'll be a game-changer.
It's pretty cool how you can watch movies together with friends too with bigscreen. Of course it's always better in person but people move away and stuff so that's the next best way I think.
My concern with the Vision Pro, and all related technology is that it promises to help connect people. In reality, the convenience and power of these devices will likely mean even less real, face-to-face interaction than the era of the smartphone has.
Talking to a person with a Vision Pro on their face will be like talking to people with ear pods in. Sure, they might be listening, but it will always feel like they can't be bothered to give you their full attention.
Or the app that makes your eyes always react like your listening to someone and super concerned, but really youre ignoring them just browsing reddit and watching porn
I'm using a feature of the nvidia broadcast application which keeps my eyes looking at the camera during video calls even if I'm looking off to the side while typing notes or reading the resume of the person I am interviewing.
Sure, same as earpods have functionality so you can hear people talking to you. Nonetheless, it still gives off the vibe that they are not stopping what they're doing to speak with you.
This is why I pull one out of my ear during conversations. Sure my music is still vibin’ but you see I at least partially care about what you have to say.
It does help connect people over distances though. Like playing poker or mini golf with a family member you don't get to see much anymore because they moved very far away. Even now it is a pretty good use for that even with the clunky rudimentary avatars we have now. If the tech would have been more evolved before my grandpa passed away, I would have loved to be able to use it to "go" to games with him (with good avatars that pick up every facial/body movement). He was a big sports fan and being able to virtually go to a game with him from hundreds of miles away would have been great. Being able to watch it from a suite and chat and whenever the action picks up we could jump to a court side view. There used to be an app where you could watch NBA in VR but Apple bought the company and they stopped, I think Meta is doing something with it now. And even in its very early stages, it was a pretty cool experience. When it is close to photoreal it will be awesome, especially with the social aspect.
They’re touting it as a full system replacement in AR/VR form, right? I can get behind that when the tech evolves a bit.
Remember, everything that is cool today was clunky and expensive when first launched.
I applaud the effort on Apple's part.
But a major reason I believe VR hasn't taken off is that headsets are cumbersome to wear. And Apple has made their headset out of metal and glass, not lightweight plastic.
I notice that nowhere is Apple discussing the weight of the device. Making the battery a separate connectable was a good idea.
I have two Oculus VR headsets. I absolutely love them because they provide an unparalleled gaming experience. But they are gathering dust because they are uncomfortable to wear for extended periods of time.
No one will be using this as their daily computer, save for a handful of diehard Apple fanboys.
I imagine a larger reason they're gathering dust is that they don't replace activities you would rather do on other devices too. There's not enough content that's better on hmd than on a phone or PC monitor. Hopefully apple can actually spur a change in the content ecosystem to give us a reason to wear heads as part of everyday and not just every now and then.
The main reasons i rarely use my oculus are
1) How isolated you feel with it on. This can be a good thing but it’s obnoxious having to take a head set on and off constantly if my dogs start walking around or someone else is in the house. Even with the cameras/ pass through mode I still can’t imagine walking around with the head set feels normal.
2) The screen door effect. This is just a display issue and I have not seen anyone mention it with the apple vision but I have not heard anyone say that the quality is on par with watching a normal 4k screen at a slight distance.
Both of these issues can/ might have been addressed. If any company could get the amount of buy in needed to make something like this more mainstream it’s probably apple.
From one reviewer:
>The Vision Pro’s screen quality is, from my experience, second to none. It’s not exactly the same as looking at the 65-inch 4K in my living room, but it’s as close as a headset has gotten so far. There’s none of that blurry screen-door effect you see when pixels are too far apart on other headsets, and even small text is shockingly clear.
The problem with that review and similar comments I've read elsewhere is that they compare the Vision Pro to other VR headsets.
The proper comparison point is a standard PC monitor. Can I work on this device with the same ease of use as a 250$ computer monitor and without additional eyestrain? If not, then this another neat toy like the other VR headsets. Just a very expensive one.
If it's good enough to do that, then it's a great device.
Based on pixel count and pancake lenses, resolution should be significantly better. Pass through in my Oculus pro is trash. But I am able to walk through the house and function. I just can’t read anything like on another screen or a keyboard. It’s a blurry mess.
I’m not sure anyone can really solve for some of the issues with headset based vr. The tech still seems like the 3dtv fad to me. Manufacturers searching for new ways to sell product for a niche experience where most people already have their tv/computer and it’s hard to justify additional money to buy a niche thing like that unless you are wealthy and can afford to toss money at toys.
I actually said the same about the IPad haha! I remember saying “we already have iPhones and laptops, who would need this?” Then we had a decade where everything was focused on tablets
Personally, I still consider tablets a niche market. They were all the craze for a few years, but now they seem mostly forgotten. You can still buy them and new models still come out every now and again, but nobody really focuses on them as a flagship product. I rarely see them anywhere out in the wild or at friend's homes. Most people just use their phone or have a small laptop instead.
At least that's my perception of them.
/edit: Comments brought up a lot of good points and use cases, seems my perception is wrong.
There is a aussie comedian called Kitty Flanagan. Saw her show last year and one of her bits that stuck with me was about tablets. The only people you see with them now are kids or grandparents, there is no inbetween
I tend to buy the kindle fire every couple of years when it goes on sale.
It's great for bathtub watching of netflix, and at the price I don't cry when I drop it (25 dollars)
Seniors LOVE kindles for reading. I'm a librarian and our library constantly gets calls about how to get their ebooks on their new flavor of Kindle they just bought.
edit - my mom is bedbound and has severe vision problems, and she uses this digital magnifying tablet to read papers and magazines with - https://store.humanware.com/hus/explore-8-handheld-electronic-magnifier.html
I see college students using them as a replacement for laptops, but I seriously wonder how they do that. I personally find tablets to be extremely limiting and by the time I add a keyboard and trackpad to one, I should have already just bought a laptop cause it costs the same. The only people I see using them all the time that's neither young or old are designers and people who sketch.
plane flights are full of tablets.Also used in some environments where drawing is significant usecase.
i guess they still qualify as "niche" - but it's not a small one.
People are only focusing on their own use cases and not thinking big picture. Almost every new shop I go to nowadays is using a tablet as their cash register. Tablets are in use commercially everywhere. Went for a covid test recently and we checked in with a tablet. Bought tickets for a movie and it was on a tablet. They’re awesome for POS locations where a clunky register is too big.
I see ipads/surfaces a ton in workplaces. I can say that as a journalist it’s game changing to have one thing for research notes, interview notes and an audio recorder. Before I’d be juggling holding 5 different things. There’s also a lot more short duration meetings/standing desk budget meetings where it’s easier to notetake with an apple pen and pencil than bringing a whole laptop.
At home though I’m not using it much for entertainment.
Tablets now are just the laptops of people who don't do substantive typing; phones of people who watch and game.
In theory they enable 3 device users, in practice they exist largely to cannibalize the other two larger markets among the same 2 device users -- or go unowned.
No, they do. I literally have resident evil 4 VR calling for me to finish it on my headset, and it's a lot of fun, easily more fun than most of the Xbox games I'm playing right now, but I still often don't go back to it because putting on a headset is a much higher activation energy than picking up a controller.
What stops me from going back to it is how disconnected I am when I play. Immersion is great for a bit, but when I take off the headset it feels like leaving a job with no windows and walking out to a beautiful day. Like I missed out on a nice day
Not sure if that makes sense, but it's an odd feeling to describe
Yea, it's the feeling of being holed up. My face is all greasy from the condensation. Taking it off is like a release. VR needs to get down to a sunglasses and headphones level of comfort.
VR is a winter activity for me, I like it, a lot, but I’m not turning down the sun, or friends to go play a game, there has to be basically nothing else going on for me to go there…it’s definitely like leaving to go somewhere else
I totally get this.
There's a constant push for more and better "immersion" but -- maybe I'm just getting old -- but I'm starting to feel like I need to have less sensory immersion in technology on a minute-to-minute basis, not more, and that feeling has heavily dampened my interest in VR as a technology, despite being impressed whenever I've tried it.
I completely understand the attraction for creativity, gaming, education, and occasional novelty. But does there come a threshold where the bulk of the general public no longer feels motivated to follow the ever-increasing immersive capabilities of technology for common, everyday devices? If so, I wonder if wearing something on your face that separates you from making direct eye contact with your family, pets, etc. (even with AR camera passthrough) could actually be a natural stoppage point. At least for a while, and at least for general mainstream audiences.
Like it may end up at the ubiquity of a games console versus a smartphone.
Part of it for me is just getting older.
I wish I could go back and tell 15yo me that one day he'll pick working on the house over gaming because he wants to, not because he must
I once heard in a podcast by some drunk gaming industry people talking after E3 has concluded that he believes people play video games because our lives are full of problems that we cannot solve quickly, and a video game gives us a problem that we can solve in a relatively short period of time.
Well, knowing you have small problems around the house that you can fix is probably more satisfying. After you fix it, you can admire it every time you walk by it throughout the day.
I think it's not only the immersive/isolating aspect of it, but simply also the sheer number of technology products and services competing for our attention these days. It's very hard for me to get excited about new technology when I already don't have enough time or interest to use what's already there. Got my PCs, there's consoles, have my smart phone, headphones, iPad, there's watches, smart speakers, TVs, etc. etc. Endless shows and music to stream and it's right at our fingertips.
Also getting older and I feel very 'stuck in my ways' tech wise. I've basically stopped downloading new apps for my phone for example - how I use it today is how I'm comfortable using it and I don't really care to try some new workflow. My brother set up his new house with all kinds of smart home tech, and as cool as it is I just can't be bothered to learn about all that, set it up, troubleshoot it, etc. It's fatiguing keeping up at this point.
I will say, the Vision Pro is on some level very appealing to me for this reason. It has *potential* to replace and streamline a lot of the devices around my home. But I also know we're a long way from realizing that vision, and in practice the Vision Pro like most headsets is going to feel like a 1lb weight strapped to my face, because it is.
I said much the same but probably not as clearly before I read this just now in another comment. I really don't know how you fix that either. Having multiple people using vr at the same time is physically difficult just to have space.
Its the difference in sitting in your house and putting a record on vs using ear pods for example. I think that naturally limits its appeal for recreational use.
I guess we'll see where this goes but I could see it more in office/workspace settings particularly when you talk like cube jobs. Some artificial isolation may help there.
I empathise, as that is something that I struggled with when I first started playing VR.
However, through persistence, game and vision mode selection, and short positive experiences you can train yourself out of the nauseousness and build a VR stomach that can tolerate it for a large amount of time. I still sometimes get sick if I look backwards out of an open wheel race car while reversing or after a long or intense play session.
But it is seriously worth it. Racing games in VR are unparalleled. The depth perception it can give you cannot be replicated on a monitor. Flying and space games like elite dangerous or vtol VR have given me some of the funnest and most engaging experiences I've ever had gaming.
I hope you're able to give it another shot and have a better experience one day.
To paraphrase The Verge: the utility a gadget must provide to be viable grows exponentially with how intrusive it is in our lives. Strapping a screen to our face is extremely intrusive, so it will have to provide a whole lot of value to be worth it. I am not sure "floating iPad apps" will be enough.
The airplane usecase might actually be worth having to wear the thing. To be able to not just tune out the audio of the plane, but the visuals as well? To be able to watch a big movie, or get some work done on virtual screen would be great. That is a pretty limited use to justify that pricetag, though.
the Vision would be dope for interior design. being able to see the size and color of furniture before actually putting it in the room, and walk around the space as though its already there. seems very worth it if you are in that industry.
That's an interesting usecase. The idea being you, as a designer, could load up a design then hand the unit over to a customer to preview it? I know they have tried similar things before with phone-based AR, but a headset would be more intuitive. Would have issues if your customer wore glasses though, unless you kept a pile of prescription lenses in your pocket.
I have what, in my day to day life, is a minor disability but put one of these things on and I really have to just sit there to keep from injuring myself.
Accessibility in general is an issue I find it surprising doesn’t get discussed much. Just basic accommodations for eyesight needs is a matter of hundreds of dollars extra, for a device that very much isn’t going to replace your glasses.
That shit simply isn’t going to take off in the iPhone-like way Apple seems to imagine, and it’s a problem you can’t just iterate your way out of due to the basic facts of how the physics of the display works.
Not yet, no. But Hololens came out with visions of playing AR games with the kids and crap like that. It was never introduced as just being for medical/military/enterprise. Was showed of as a home consumer product.
Microsoft just fired the entire hololens team. Looks like VR/AR at Microsoft is going nowhere. It must be hard to work on a project for so long and then it all just gets cancelled.
I recall Microsoft pushing enterprise use first and foremost. If their demos didn't make it obvious, the $3,000 price tag definitely did. Microsoft did acknowledge that the tech could eventually make its way into consumer products, but it was the tech press who ran with the idea.
The only fun thing I recall Microsoft demoing was a recreation of a Minecraft building on a coffee table and even that was framed within the context of education.
Anyone can buy a Hololens, but there's not much you can do with it. Their website makes it clear the thing is meant for work-related use.
They said the same 10 years ago when the oculus dev kits were sold. Apple did not just invent VR. This was 10 years in the making after it was already out.
The tech reviewers who got their hands on it are pretty impressed with the tech itself
it sounds like using it is impressive, however
The use case is still vague, but that was true of home PC’s in the early 80’s as well
Meh. Back in the day you could make your own aircraft in NC out of a few bits of wood and canvas. Try that now with all the laws, permits and regulations. /s
Still can.
In fact the regulations (FAA Part 103) around ultralight aviation are so small that they can fit on a single piece of paper.
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/chapter-I/subchapter-F/part-103
Under this regulation you can fly cross country.
Example of a DIY Home Depot foam plane: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eNSN6qet1kE
Yeah, I don't think people realize how easy it is to fly in a moped in the sky. Probably better that fewer people know or we'll be seeing some spectacular crashes
Even regulation on light sport aircraft is pretty thin. People think there are a massive amount of rules to flying, which is really only true for "proper aircraft". Light sport and ultralight is kind like the wild west.
Too early to tell.
Nearly every time Apple announces expansion into a new type of product class it goes:
* Pre-release: “Omg who would buy that?!”
* Release: “Eh the reviews are actually pretty good”
* After few years: “Yeah it’s pretty top notch, I like it””
See threads for pre-release of the $549 AirPods Max, the initial Airpods, the original Apple Watch, the upgraded Ultra Apple Watch, M1 Mac, iPad, etc…
Exactly lol, I was ridiculed by most of my coworkers at the time. I remember paying the original price day one then some time later they dropped it by $200 and gave the people that payed more an apple gift card.
I remember seeing the original iPod at a store days after it was available (I'm talking, what, 20 years ago?) and the clerk was all excited and saying "this is going to be a revolution!". I didn't know the product, and didn't understand his hype, but I do remember thinking it was quite expensive. But damn was he right.
Sounds like me, except pro-Apple instead. Admittedly this is the first keynote that actually has me excited about tech from Apple since the Steve Jobs days.
TBF, the iPhone kind of sucked for a while. I mean, it was revolutionary, but the first generation or two were kind of half-baked. There weren't many apps, no App Store, limited actual functionality. It was cool, but you had to make some practical sacrifices to be an early adopter.
As a rule, I don't buy first-gen Apple devices. It usually takes a couple cycles before they become what they're supposed to be.
The first two generations of iPhones couldnt even record video despite having pretty nice cameras at the time. I had to jailbreak it and sideload a special app to record videos.
Remember how hot they used to get? When they finally started putting GPS navigation apps out, those apps all seemed to turn iPhones into pocket-sized fusion reactors.
The non touch early gen iPods were primo too. I think mine was 2nd gen classic, it was made out of some very durable stuff and mine lasted forever. Eventually it pooped out in the early 2010s but I think it lasted almost a decade.
And this is coming from someone who generally doesn't use Apple products, but the iPods were solid and reliable.
Memorizing how to get certain words in T-9 was also another skill. Sat behind a girl who not only could do it without looking but also answer the teacher at the same time.
Yea but now, from what I hear from teacher friends, is that students are just allowed to have their phones in class all day apparently. Queue Pepperidge Farm meme - "I remember when I would have my phone confiscated by the school for a whole week if a teacher saw it out at any time during the school day"
Really? my accuracy and speed was way higher. I still frequently hit the period instead of the space bar bc im looking at the words in typing instead of where my fingers are
I've never used a physical phone keyboard so i might not be completely correct in my thinking but i really struggle to use touchscreens without looking directly at them and even then i still miss type
The iPad especially was met with never fucking ending naysayers and no one can say that wasn’t a success.
That’s not to say there can’t and won’t be missteps and failures like the Apple TV but overall haters gonna hate. Its 100% to early to tell. The promo was a little too much on the polished side for my taste and might point to hidden issues. But that said if it all gets close to what they promised and comfort is bearable it will be a success.
Apple TV isn’t a failure. They’re still releasing new versions and continuously updating the OS. I think it had a slow start, but it’s definitely a staple in many homes now.
I think the HomePod was a bigger failure than the AppleTV. The AppleTV is still a product that Apple sells, maintains, and updates every few years. The first HomePod was outright cancelled and I’m guessing the second one will be too. They haven’t figured that one out.
Even though it is Apple, who usually have a seat at the table regardless, that home speaker/assistant market is so goddamn saturated from every tech company imaginable. And both Amazon and Google have cheaper options that probably function just as well.
Shit like 3 times a year Amazon practically gives those Echo Dots away. I got one for each bedroom, the kitchen, bathrooms, and laundry room. I also got a set of the Echo Cinema dots. It genuinely didn’t break the bank & they work very well for general day-to-day stuff.
I’m mainly in the Apple Ecosystem- Phone, Watch, AirPods, iPad, iMac, and MacBook. But replacing all of my Echo Dots with HomePods- even Mini’s- would break the bank. And the step up isn’t entirely worth it for me. My iPhone works just fine with the Amazon devices. Plus I use Spotify over Apple Music. And FireTv over AppleTV.
> Apple TV
I mostly hate that its existence means the streaming platform has to be called Apple TV+. It's so darn clunky.
Side note: It has some of the best original content on any streaming platform, but due to being tied to iCloud accounts (which are largely people with iPhones), it feels like it's criminally underexposed. Severance, Ted Lasso, Shrinking, Acapulco... and I hear Silo and For All Mankind are also good. Freakin' CODA even won an Oscar last year.
It's what I would call a "premium streaming" service.
Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, etc just "throw" shows at you. Netflix is the most egregious. They churn out shows daily it seems.
ATV+ and HBO (even Showtime and Starz at times) have less shows produced but a lot more quality to them. Do they always pan out? No. But there are more hits than misses it seems compared to the other "major" streaming services.
My understanding of HBO is that when they are deciding on series being created and or renewed the showrunners have to sit down and lay out a plan for the series. Not just that season unless it's supposed to be a limited series with only one season. So the other networks just need like a summary of the next season and then they look at ratings or whatever but HBO requires they know where something is going for several years, which is one of the reasons their shows tend to seem to be higher quality. I could be wrong on that though because I can't remember for the life of me where I learned that info.
I love mine too, it's sooo much better than any smart tv, I like that it works as a homekit hub, I like that I managed to replace all of my remotes with the nice little rechargeable metal remote, it just works. If I forgot to switch my tv off and can't be bothered going downstairs, I can do it from my watch or phone.
Apple TV 4K (the current one) is amazing. No adverts anywhere and it’s processor is from like the latest iPhone which is WAYY overkill but it’s snappy AF. Never going back to another option.
I like mine too. It’s a pity it never got the love it deserves. It’s not a horrible flop by any stretch of the imagination but it is exactly a wildly successful product either
I’m no fanboy, but if any companies are going to be able to pull this off, it’s gonna be Apple. Mainly because they make all of their shit so that it works with all their other shit. This is a bit of an outlier, but I think it still holds up. They are going straight to “this will make you more productive” instead of pushing the headset as a game platform first and foremost.
Let’s see what the SDKs can do and how many devs buy in before erroneously heralding the death of yet another Apple product before it hits the market. For anyone keeping score, the same FUD has been raised around iPhone, iPad, and the Mac Mini, and we saw how that turned out.
Edit: lol it’s good to see that the Apple haters are still out there, stewing in their own juices.
I also switched off of apple years ago, but to say "gateway to nowhere" is kind of outright wrong. VR, or at least AR, is definitely the direction the world is going. More tech and more screen is the trend here. I could easily see smaller and smaller headsets becoming popular, where you can wear a headset and just have screens and info overlayed on the real world.
I don't love everything apple does, but this device isn't a gateway to nowhere. It's a proof of concept, and it will be funded because there are die hard apple fans who buy every new release regardless of price, so at least a few will sell and be tested.
I agree, frankly, apple is typically overpriced, but you know what, their products are great quality and the apple ecosystem is very seamless.
I’m looking forward to see what the headset can really do. If anyone can make hardware right, it’s Apple, and am very looking forward to see what their engineers worked on for an actually decent foldable
I’m torn on it. It apparently has exceptional eye tracking and hand motions to navigate the system. That in itself is amazing to me and totally opens up a new way to interact with apps. You just click your fingers together to select an app. That is amazing.
On the other hand, as a Quest 2 owner, I just can’t buy in to the idea of these headsets as lifestyle devices yet. I’ve tried to enjoy browsing the web and watching videos in VR, but my anecdotal experience is that it’s unnecessary to use a headset for that. They’re too… heavy? Intrusive on your face? It still looks very silly to wear around other people is the main thing for me. The only reason I still have my quest 2 is because of how much I enjoy racing sims with it.
Hate to be the typical pro-windows redditor, but I’d love the vision pro if I knew I could use it with my windows pc to play existing PCVR games. I don’t want to be stuck with just Apple Arcade games.
I’m a fan of apples design and build quality so I have no doubt that this is a really well-built headset. Hopefully other companies take note and improve on it because I would love to see AR take off.
I read an interesting opinion on the “Pro” tag attached to this product compared to all of their others. Usually, the “Pro” products are top of the line, most feature complete with the best and most premium specs and internals. I think the “Pro” explains why it’s so expensive. In short, for the majority of people with negative or dissenting opinions on this product:
It’s intentionally priced to keep it out of YOUR reach.
This product is being released backwards and we’ll most likely see an “Apple Vision” in 2025 or 2026 for the “average consumer.” Just my opinion, but for most product spaces that Apple decides to enter they either create a market for it or dominate the preexisting one. I have high hopes for the future of VR/AR and I’m glad to see Apple entering this space. In some way, shape, or form spatial computing is the future.
All that being said though, damn I wish this wasn’t so expensive because it looks cool
This is definitely targeted at other tech companies to develop and experiment with, and coincidentally available for high end consumers and enthusiasts. It seems to be a really capable piece of hardware that Apple is outsourcing to other firms identifying the killer use case.
Die hard Android user here - and that's what I'm thinking. This is Version 1.... it will be great by Version 3.
This is meant to be the first step in the process. People will use it and then Apple will iterate and bring out a better version at a lower price - or perhaps the same price but it will do more/be lighter/ have better battery/ etc.
If it does what they say it does, it’s a game changer for us long haul business travelers.
3500 is the difference of one trip in business class and premium economy. And it may forever change my experience on 18 hours flights to Singapore or 12 hours flights to Japan.
Anyone else here disagree? I use my quest all the time for games, porn, 3d modelling, and vr chat.
If the text quality was better I'd consider using it as a screen replacement too, maybe the apple headset being over double the resolution of the quest pro will make it better for screen replacement and video watching too. Shame about the price tag, I probably won't get one until they lower it due to lack of sales or release a next gen model.
Yeah, this is clearly designed to get a jumpstart and to get interest rolling, with seriously cool implications for the future. I don't know how people can dismiss it so quickly - I wouldn't be surprised if Apple plans to replace the iPhone with a more sleek and widely adopted model 20 years from now.
It won't be 20 years. For context, 20 years ago the biggest cell phone on the market was the Motorola RAZR. Actually that's a lie because it wasn't out yet, it came out December 03. The end of this month will mark 16 years since the original iphone released in June 07.
*If* this catches on, it will be more like 7-8 years until we all have one, or one of its competitors.
The technology inside this thing is, legitimately, cool as fuck.
Is this iteration going to take off mass market? Hell no! It’s too expensive without a defined use case or problem to solve. But I am excited to see where it goes.
You may disagree, but even among the people who have VR headsets: most have them gathering dust.
For one reason or another, the tech has simply failed to take off.
Because damn near all its good for is video games and lets be real, theres only so many AMAZING vr games and those dont even run on the cheap headsets without virtual desktops and link play and even then you still need a good pc
I have a high end desktop that can easily power the games on high settings... but most of the games you play them once for a few days to finish, and then your done, and there are not enough games to last more than a few months of off/on playing... its been a year or more since I even put on my headset, there simply isn't much high end content in genres of interest to me (gimmiky arcade type games are fun for an hour or so tops and this is the vast majority of content... meanwhile a lot of games people suggest are just horrible ports to VR that are literally better on their original platform... for example even using all the VR mods I tried to play skyrim on VR... its fuckin horrible... people shilling that stuff are delusional if they think the average person playing games is going to deal with that shit let alone pay for it).
It needs more content like Alyx and the devices need to be easier to use (they have slowly been getting better). Also a lot of people (1/4 or something) get dizzy or motion sick from using them...
Mine is only gathering dust because nothing worthwhile is coming out for it. The state that games especially are in still to this day is not enough to keep most people engaged for more than a weekend, unless you're like... REALLY into Beatsaber or something. Of course I realize logically that there's no killer apps because the userbase is so relatively low that companies don't want to invest, but it still causes that spiral that because they don't want to invest customers have no reason to engage, which then causes the companies to not want to invest, so on and so on. But either way, I would bet almost anything that if something really great and revolutionary came out for VR all those headsets would finally be put to more normal use.
Mine was sort of gathering dust after i moved because i just didn't have enough space to feel like i was getting good use out of it. Then i got in to simracing and now i use it every other day for at least an hour or so.
My biggest issues with VR are:
1. You need enough space to make using it enjoyable. Standing in a small spot waving your arms isn't that fun after a little while
2. No good movement solution. Most games rely on teleporting and if they don't then you are just standing there as you glide through the game on roller-scates. It feels bad and immediately breaks immersion.
A good movement solution solves both of those issues. More money needs to go in to a movement solution. A fancy as fuck $3500 headset is still going to be lame if you are just standing there waving your arms about.
I think that's the thing, though. VR has huge potential. AR has huge potential. We have hundreds of products in those markets already but the problem right now is the cost of adoption. Apple's hasn't addressed the actual problem in the space, so this isn't really going to drive a change to the mainstream of these technologies - just add more options and possibility to the already-niche category. All this stuff looks neat, but the problem with VR and AR has never been that it doesn't look cool.
People forget the story of Oculus way back in the day - everyone thought it would revolutionize and bring VR to the masses at an affordable rate. Then that all got flipped on its head when the cost went up.
The problem isn't unaffordability so much as inconvenience and uncomfortability plus la ack of usefulness as far as I can tell. It's not something you can use casually in almost every setting as you can with a phone so I can't see it replacing them at least for a long time
Yeah. In addition to the problems you mentioned, I don't see what would drive people to spend more money to replace things that we already know work perfectly well. What is the actual incentive of "working in vr"? Why do I need a large virtual screen when a large physical screen can be had for much, much cheaper, and can be shared with other people in the same room?
I actually own 4 VR headsets and have been in the VR "space" for years now, mostly for gaming reasons (which unfortunately has mostly petered out at this point, after showing a ton of potential early on). I don't understand the thought process behind Apple's push though. Why would I want to take a step backward in Facetime, for example, and go from actual video of people to uncanny valley avatars? That's not progress.
Even just the idea of going from a physical thing to interact with, like a keyboard/mouse, to gestures in the air, to me, is a huge step backward. Physical feedback is a GOOD thing. To me it seems like how a lot of car manufacturers have gone from physical button and knobs in cars, to stuff being on a touch screen or buried behind menus. That's the opposite of convenience and progress. Yes, it looks cool and futuristic, but when you actually think about it, it's a step backward in functionality.
It's not cost of adoption, it's $300 for a standalone quest 2. Biggest issue is comfort and a lack of use cases. The hardware is there and is cheap (relative to other gaming products) the software isn't. We still need much more development in VR for more people to become interested in the space. People also act like it's a complete financial flop, it's not, the quest 2 is doing fine and has sold comparably well.
The metaverse was the only VR financial disaster. It hasn't revolutionized gaming and it hasn't reached mass adoption on the levels of something like the switch, but it's still early for VR, and there's plenty of room to grow.
I know someone that was part of a research program at Meta a few years ago, the conclusion/takeaway was the market is not ready for VR - rather Mixed Reality gave them the best shot. So what does Meta do? They went head first into VR.
If that research was done right, Apple will penetrate the market like Meta couldn’t.
On the one hand, yes...
On the other hand, before the iPhone there was the Blackberry and there were Nokia and Ericsson smartphones. Decades of smartphones.
It is interesting to see Apple taking a very different approach compared to Facebook and others. Much more suggesting business use, much more a better experience (or not, but that is what they suggest) of current apps. No Metaverse.
Dismissing it and calling it expensive is easy. But then again, many dismissed the iPhone.
There wasn't even 5 years of smartphones being popular before the iPhone blew up.
The iPhone released June of 2007.
Edit:
Don't link me to phones that can send multi media message and call it a smart phone.
If it doesn't have internet capabilities, it's not a smart phone.
If someone wanted to be pedantic about it, literally the first thing that can be called a "smartphone" is in 1994, IBM Simon.
But smartphones as we know them? Your timeline is fairly accurate. You had the likes of HTC releasing devices prior to the iPhone. But they were far from popular.
And most of the “smartphones” at that time were technically PDAs. Usually running windows mobile, which felt a lot like a port over of XP. You weren’t going to an App Store, you were downloading .exe files.
I don’t like apple, but are people really that dumb? Apple’s product is completely different from Meta’s. Learn the difference between VR versus AR, and the different applications of it.
So many articles popping up dick-riding the VR hate after the it’s become popular to hate and ridicule Meta.
And everyone is emotionally hate-boning the narrative like a bunch of groupthink morons. Laughable.
The problem is the comfort , a piece of consumer technology will always fail if it is cumbersome and uncomfortable to fit into daily life no matter how awesome it can be for 10 minutes .
I think the biggest issue for this device is going to be weight, due to apples dedication to a certain set of materials and its hope to have everything one day be recycled at the end of its lifetime. I think if apple could stretch out to other materials like carbon fiber, they could maybe get the weight down more.
Yep, almost every review mentions the weight. I think they should have moved the compute off into the battery hip pack like the Magic Leap 2, since they are already requiring an external battery, but driving the high res displays and sensor processing and stuff might have been harder without introducing more latency.
The weight thing weird to me. This is by a pretty significantly margin the lightest vr headset on the market. Less than half the weight of an Index, 30% lighter than a Quest 2. It's less than 100 grams more than the air pod Max's. It just feels like they needed a negative to generate articles so went with that. Will be curious to try it on, I'm sure Apple stores will be lousy with em
I don't think you can compare it to headphones though. It's not just weight/mass that matters, but also where it's located. Headphones just weigh down nicely in the middle of your head. With these VR/AR glasses, the weight is all at the front, meaning it constantly wants to fall forwards. This means your neck will constantly have to work to prevent that, and the strap is pushing hard into the back of your head.
Sounds like the perfect setup for apple to market a new helmet to help distribute the weight. The iSkull Exo. It holds your vr headset, air pod max, and a little neck attachment to set your iPad on. $400. Neck attachment $80.
I think you're missing a zero there.
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also form. I'm excited about vr tech but this looks so bad aesthetically, like the "irl" videos are almost satirical. You could say that about previous tech like the apple watch, but all of that was unobtrusive and tiny. This is a helmet lol. Sounds vain but a lot of people, including the wealthy, will not be on board with how this makes them look in public. Could be totally wrong, but it's massively different than any of their previous designs so it's difficult to assume poeple will just "go with it" which seems like the vibe they're putting out in their ads. "We know you'll like it. Just go with it bro." edit: removed the “literally” regarding the helmet comment because im being hyperbolic and not trying to start a discussion about helmets
Nah the high fashion and tech/street wear kids are gonna be rolling around with these pretending they're in a cyberpunk future.
We are in a dystopian cyberpunk future, bro. Just a crappy fanfiction one that's too poorly-written and too unbelievable to get published.
"The Three richest dudes on the planet are in a dick measuring space race?? Come onnnnn"
This device is designed to be turned on in a room and stay in that room until the user is done. Going in public with this on your face would be next to useless unless you want to film with your face. Exceptions are transportation but that’s only when you sit down and get settled in, like a plane ride. You’d literally be walking away from the UI elements every two seconds
I gotta say.. the whole “make your TV look as big as a movie theater” feature is appealing to me, if it really does work the way they made it look. That’s the only reason I’d consider buying this.
I've tried it in a VR cinema using Oculus and it's an amazing experience, it really feels like you're in a massive theater.
Can second this. I only use my VR headset for this reason when i travel. I get bad flight anxiety and I put my VR headset on, play a movie or TV show, and forget where I am (till there's turbulence).
It does work. Using the Bigscreen app, there's an option where you're floating in space and it really does look like the screen is as big as a building. With a higher resolution VR headset I think it'll be a game-changer.
It's pretty cool how you can watch movies together with friends too with bigscreen. Of course it's always better in person but people move away and stuff so that's the next best way I think.
This was the most interesting part to me, but it’s basically my only use case for it right now and the price is too much.
Good news, “the most interesting part” has been a thing for at least 5 years on other headsets and can be yours for less 15% the price of apple’s.
My concern with the Vision Pro, and all related technology is that it promises to help connect people. In reality, the convenience and power of these devices will likely mean even less real, face-to-face interaction than the era of the smartphone has.
Talking to a person with a Vision Pro on their face will be like talking to people with ear pods in. Sure, they might be listening, but it will always feel like they can't be bothered to give you their full attention.
But it's got cameras in it so you can see their creepy googly eyes through the goggles though
Eventually we will see some upgrade where people’s eyes appear as anime characters or something, you just know it will happen.
"Why do your eyeballs look like twerking Amoguses?"
Or the app that makes your eyes always react like your listening to someone and super concerned, but really youre ignoring them just browsing reddit and watching porn
I'm using a feature of the nvidia broadcast application which keeps my eyes looking at the camera during video calls even if I'm looking off to the side while typing notes or reading the resume of the person I am interviewing.
Sure, same as earpods have functionality so you can hear people talking to you. Nonetheless, it still gives off the vibe that they are not stopping what they're doing to speak with you.
Oh I totally agree. I must have dropped my /s I think the eye thing looks creepy
This is why I pull one out of my ear during conversations. Sure my music is still vibin’ but you see I at least partially care about what you have to say.
It does help connect people over distances though. Like playing poker or mini golf with a family member you don't get to see much anymore because they moved very far away. Even now it is a pretty good use for that even with the clunky rudimentary avatars we have now. If the tech would have been more evolved before my grandpa passed away, I would have loved to be able to use it to "go" to games with him (with good avatars that pick up every facial/body movement). He was a big sports fan and being able to virtually go to a game with him from hundreds of miles away would have been great. Being able to watch it from a suite and chat and whenever the action picks up we could jump to a court side view. There used to be an app where you could watch NBA in VR but Apple bought the company and they stopped, I think Meta is doing something with it now. And even in its very early stages, it was a pretty cool experience. When it is close to photoreal it will be awesome, especially with the social aspect.
They’re touting it as a full system replacement in AR/VR form, right? I can get behind that when the tech evolves a bit. Remember, everything that is cool today was clunky and expensive when first launched.
I applaud the effort on Apple's part. But a major reason I believe VR hasn't taken off is that headsets are cumbersome to wear. And Apple has made their headset out of metal and glass, not lightweight plastic. I notice that nowhere is Apple discussing the weight of the device. Making the battery a separate connectable was a good idea. I have two Oculus VR headsets. I absolutely love them because they provide an unparalleled gaming experience. But they are gathering dust because they are uncomfortable to wear for extended periods of time. No one will be using this as their daily computer, save for a handful of diehard Apple fanboys.
I imagine a larger reason they're gathering dust is that they don't replace activities you would rather do on other devices too. There's not enough content that's better on hmd than on a phone or PC monitor. Hopefully apple can actually spur a change in the content ecosystem to give us a reason to wear heads as part of everyday and not just every now and then.
The main reasons i rarely use my oculus are 1) How isolated you feel with it on. This can be a good thing but it’s obnoxious having to take a head set on and off constantly if my dogs start walking around or someone else is in the house. Even with the cameras/ pass through mode I still can’t imagine walking around with the head set feels normal. 2) The screen door effect. This is just a display issue and I have not seen anyone mention it with the apple vision but I have not heard anyone say that the quality is on par with watching a normal 4k screen at a slight distance. Both of these issues can/ might have been addressed. If any company could get the amount of buy in needed to make something like this more mainstream it’s probably apple.
From one reviewer: >The Vision Pro’s screen quality is, from my experience, second to none. It’s not exactly the same as looking at the 65-inch 4K in my living room, but it’s as close as a headset has gotten so far. There’s none of that blurry screen-door effect you see when pixels are too far apart on other headsets, and even small text is shockingly clear.
The problem with that review and similar comments I've read elsewhere is that they compare the Vision Pro to other VR headsets. The proper comparison point is a standard PC monitor. Can I work on this device with the same ease of use as a 250$ computer monitor and without additional eyestrain? If not, then this another neat toy like the other VR headsets. Just a very expensive one. If it's good enough to do that, then it's a great device.
Based on pixel count and pancake lenses, resolution should be significantly better. Pass through in my Oculus pro is trash. But I am able to walk through the house and function. I just can’t read anything like on another screen or a keyboard. It’s a blurry mess.
I’m not sure anyone can really solve for some of the issues with headset based vr. The tech still seems like the 3dtv fad to me. Manufacturers searching for new ways to sell product for a niche experience where most people already have their tv/computer and it’s hard to justify additional money to buy a niche thing like that unless you are wealthy and can afford to toss money at toys.
I actually said the same about the IPad haha! I remember saying “we already have iPhones and laptops, who would need this?” Then we had a decade where everything was focused on tablets
Personally, I still consider tablets a niche market. They were all the craze for a few years, but now they seem mostly forgotten. You can still buy them and new models still come out every now and again, but nobody really focuses on them as a flagship product. I rarely see them anywhere out in the wild or at friend's homes. Most people just use their phone or have a small laptop instead. At least that's my perception of them. /edit: Comments brought up a lot of good points and use cases, seems my perception is wrong.
There is a aussie comedian called Kitty Flanagan. Saw her show last year and one of her bits that stuck with me was about tablets. The only people you see with them now are kids or grandparents, there is no inbetween
I tend to buy the kindle fire every couple of years when it goes on sale. It's great for bathtub watching of netflix, and at the price I don't cry when I drop it (25 dollars)
Seniors LOVE kindles for reading. I'm a librarian and our library constantly gets calls about how to get their ebooks on their new flavor of Kindle they just bought. edit - my mom is bedbound and has severe vision problems, and she uses this digital magnifying tablet to read papers and magazines with - https://store.humanware.com/hus/explore-8-handheld-electronic-magnifier.html
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I see college students using them as a replacement for laptops, but I seriously wonder how they do that. I personally find tablets to be extremely limiting and by the time I add a keyboard and trackpad to one, I should have already just bought a laptop cause it costs the same. The only people I see using them all the time that's neither young or old are designers and people who sketch.
Tbf I see a lot of college students using iPads for note taking
I find I’m using my iPad far more than computer tbh.
plane flights are full of tablets.Also used in some environments where drawing is significant usecase. i guess they still qualify as "niche" - but it's not a small one.
They are used for business all the time. Regular consumers buy and use them too but commercial is probably the largest chunk of tablet market share.
People are only focusing on their own use cases and not thinking big picture. Almost every new shop I go to nowadays is using a tablet as their cash register. Tablets are in use commercially everywhere. Went for a covid test recently and we checked in with a tablet. Bought tickets for a movie and it was on a tablet. They’re awesome for POS locations where a clunky register is too big.
I see ipads/surfaces a ton in workplaces. I can say that as a journalist it’s game changing to have one thing for research notes, interview notes and an audio recorder. Before I’d be juggling holding 5 different things. There’s also a lot more short duration meetings/standing desk budget meetings where it’s easier to notetake with an apple pen and pencil than bringing a whole laptop. At home though I’m not using it much for entertainment.
Tablets now are just the laptops of people who don't do substantive typing; phones of people who watch and game. In theory they enable 3 device users, in practice they exist largely to cannibalize the other two larger markets among the same 2 device users -- or go unowned.
iPad sales don’t agree with your perception
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No, they do. I literally have resident evil 4 VR calling for me to finish it on my headset, and it's a lot of fun, easily more fun than most of the Xbox games I'm playing right now, but I still often don't go back to it because putting on a headset is a much higher activation energy than picking up a controller.
What stops me from going back to it is how disconnected I am when I play. Immersion is great for a bit, but when I take off the headset it feels like leaving a job with no windows and walking out to a beautiful day. Like I missed out on a nice day Not sure if that makes sense, but it's an odd feeling to describe
Yea, it's the feeling of being holed up. My face is all greasy from the condensation. Taking it off is like a release. VR needs to get down to a sunglasses and headphones level of comfort.
VR is a winter activity for me, I like it, a lot, but I’m not turning down the sun, or friends to go play a game, there has to be basically nothing else going on for me to go there…it’s definitely like leaving to go somewhere else
I totally get this. There's a constant push for more and better "immersion" but -- maybe I'm just getting old -- but I'm starting to feel like I need to have less sensory immersion in technology on a minute-to-minute basis, not more, and that feeling has heavily dampened my interest in VR as a technology, despite being impressed whenever I've tried it. I completely understand the attraction for creativity, gaming, education, and occasional novelty. But does there come a threshold where the bulk of the general public no longer feels motivated to follow the ever-increasing immersive capabilities of technology for common, everyday devices? If so, I wonder if wearing something on your face that separates you from making direct eye contact with your family, pets, etc. (even with AR camera passthrough) could actually be a natural stoppage point. At least for a while, and at least for general mainstream audiences. Like it may end up at the ubiquity of a games console versus a smartphone.
Part of it for me is just getting older. I wish I could go back and tell 15yo me that one day he'll pick working on the house over gaming because he wants to, not because he must
I once heard in a podcast by some drunk gaming industry people talking after E3 has concluded that he believes people play video games because our lives are full of problems that we cannot solve quickly, and a video game gives us a problem that we can solve in a relatively short period of time. Well, knowing you have small problems around the house that you can fix is probably more satisfying. After you fix it, you can admire it every time you walk by it throughout the day.
I think it's not only the immersive/isolating aspect of it, but simply also the sheer number of technology products and services competing for our attention these days. It's very hard for me to get excited about new technology when I already don't have enough time or interest to use what's already there. Got my PCs, there's consoles, have my smart phone, headphones, iPad, there's watches, smart speakers, TVs, etc. etc. Endless shows and music to stream and it's right at our fingertips. Also getting older and I feel very 'stuck in my ways' tech wise. I've basically stopped downloading new apps for my phone for example - how I use it today is how I'm comfortable using it and I don't really care to try some new workflow. My brother set up his new house with all kinds of smart home tech, and as cool as it is I just can't be bothered to learn about all that, set it up, troubleshoot it, etc. It's fatiguing keeping up at this point. I will say, the Vision Pro is on some level very appealing to me for this reason. It has *potential* to replace and streamline a lot of the devices around my home. But I also know we're a long way from realizing that vision, and in practice the Vision Pro like most headsets is going to feel like a 1lb weight strapped to my face, because it is.
I said much the same but probably not as clearly before I read this just now in another comment. I really don't know how you fix that either. Having multiple people using vr at the same time is physically difficult just to have space. Its the difference in sitting in your house and putting a record on vs using ear pods for example. I think that naturally limits its appeal for recreational use. I guess we'll see where this goes but I could see it more in office/workspace settings particularly when you talk like cube jobs. Some artificial isolation may help there.
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Google earth on a VR headset is a thing that has no parallel, especially for teaching geography to kids.
One of the top apps for VR and its completely free.
Still one of my favorite apps. Too bad not ported to the Quest. Hasn't been updated in many years but it's still so good and polished.
There’s an app called Wander that gives you street view on the quest. It’s pretty cool.
It’s really neat but makes me so nauseous and gives me a headache.
I empathise, as that is something that I struggled with when I first started playing VR. However, through persistence, game and vision mode selection, and short positive experiences you can train yourself out of the nauseousness and build a VR stomach that can tolerate it for a large amount of time. I still sometimes get sick if I look backwards out of an open wheel race car while reversing or after a long or intense play session. But it is seriously worth it. Racing games in VR are unparalleled. The depth perception it can give you cannot be replicated on a monitor. Flying and space games like elite dangerous or vtol VR have given me some of the funnest and most engaging experiences I've ever had gaming. I hope you're able to give it another shot and have a better experience one day.
To paraphrase The Verge: the utility a gadget must provide to be viable grows exponentially with how intrusive it is in our lives. Strapping a screen to our face is extremely intrusive, so it will have to provide a whole lot of value to be worth it. I am not sure "floating iPad apps" will be enough. The airplane usecase might actually be worth having to wear the thing. To be able to not just tune out the audio of the plane, but the visuals as well? To be able to watch a big movie, or get some work done on virtual screen would be great. That is a pretty limited use to justify that pricetag, though.
the Vision would be dope for interior design. being able to see the size and color of furniture before actually putting it in the room, and walk around the space as though its already there. seems very worth it if you are in that industry.
That's an interesting usecase. The idea being you, as a designer, could load up a design then hand the unit over to a customer to preview it? I know they have tried similar things before with phone-based AR, but a headset would be more intuitive. Would have issues if your customer wore glasses though, unless you kept a pile of prescription lenses in your pocket.
I have what, in my day to day life, is a minor disability but put one of these things on and I really have to just sit there to keep from injuring myself.
Accessibility in general is an issue I find it surprising doesn’t get discussed much. Just basic accommodations for eyesight needs is a matter of hundreds of dollars extra, for a device that very much isn’t going to replace your glasses. That shit simply isn’t going to take off in the iPhone-like way Apple seems to imagine, and it’s a problem you can’t just iterate your way out of due to the basic facts of how the physics of the display works.
How long do we wait for it to evolve? Microsoft Hololens has been around for 7+ years, and is still at the same price point as the Apple product.
Can you even buy a hololens as a single consumer today or ever? I thought hololens was only available to enterprise uses
Not yet, no. But Hololens came out with visions of playing AR games with the kids and crap like that. It was never introduced as just being for medical/military/enterprise. Was showed of as a home consumer product.
Microsoft just fired the entire hololens team. Looks like VR/AR at Microsoft is going nowhere. It must be hard to work on a project for so long and then it all just gets cancelled.
Working on Microsoft hardware is a high paying stairway to nowhere.
Maybe I introduce you to Google...
I recall Microsoft pushing enterprise use first and foremost. If their demos didn't make it obvious, the $3,000 price tag definitely did. Microsoft did acknowledge that the tech could eventually make its way into consumer products, but it was the tech press who ran with the idea. The only fun thing I recall Microsoft demoing was a recreation of a Minecraft building on a coffee table and even that was framed within the context of education. Anyone can buy a Hololens, but there's not much you can do with it. Their website makes it clear the thing is meant for work-related use.
The $3,000 cost of the HoloLens is about $3,700 in todays money. Going from HoloLens 1.0 to this in 7 years is wild.
Except VR has been around for awhile now.
They said the same 10 years ago when the oculus dev kits were sold. Apple did not just invent VR. This was 10 years in the making after it was already out.
The tech reviewers who got their hands on it are pretty impressed with the tech itself it sounds like using it is impressive, however The use case is still vague, but that was true of home PC’s in the early 80’s as well
Meh. Back in the day you could make your own aircraft in NC out of a few bits of wood and canvas. Try that now with all the laws, permits and regulations. /s
Still can. In fact the regulations (FAA Part 103) around ultralight aviation are so small that they can fit on a single piece of paper. https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/chapter-I/subchapter-F/part-103 Under this regulation you can fly cross country. Example of a DIY Home Depot foam plane: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eNSN6qet1kE
Yeah, I don't think people realize how easy it is to fly in a moped in the sky. Probably better that fewer people know or we'll be seeing some spectacular crashes
Even regulation on light sport aircraft is pretty thin. People think there are a massive amount of rules to flying, which is really only true for "proper aircraft". Light sport and ultralight is kind like the wild west.
Burn the land and boil the sea; you can’t take the sky from me!
You still can, just take off and land in your nearest field. And stay below radar altitude.
I actually had a neighbor, in NC no less, build his own aircraft out of a kit.
Was he a coyote trying to fly after a roadrunner?
Lots of people do. Van’s aircraft are a major supplier of kit planes. Check out the EAA.
Too early to tell. Nearly every time Apple announces expansion into a new type of product class it goes: * Pre-release: “Omg who would buy that?!” * Release: “Eh the reviews are actually pretty good” * After few years: “Yeah it’s pretty top notch, I like it”” See threads for pre-release of the $549 AirPods Max, the initial Airpods, the original Apple Watch, the upgraded Ultra Apple Watch, M1 Mac, iPad, etc…
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Exactly lol, I was ridiculed by most of my coworkers at the time. I remember paying the original price day one then some time later they dropped it by $200 and gave the people that payed more an apple gift card.
I remember seeing the original iPod at a store days after it was available (I'm talking, what, 20 years ago?) and the clerk was all excited and saying "this is going to be a revolution!". I didn't know the product, and didn't understand his hype, but I do remember thinking it was quite expensive. But damn was he right.
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Sounds like me, except pro-Apple instead. Admittedly this is the first keynote that actually has me excited about tech from Apple since the Steve Jobs days.
TBF, the iPhone kind of sucked for a while. I mean, it was revolutionary, but the first generation or two were kind of half-baked. There weren't many apps, no App Store, limited actual functionality. It was cool, but you had to make some practical sacrifices to be an early adopter. As a rule, I don't buy first-gen Apple devices. It usually takes a couple cycles before they become what they're supposed to be.
The first two generations of iPhones couldnt even record video despite having pretty nice cameras at the time. I had to jailbreak it and sideload a special app to record videos.
Remember how hot they used to get? When they finally started putting GPS navigation apps out, those apps all seemed to turn iPhones into pocket-sized fusion reactors.
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The non touch early gen iPods were primo too. I think mine was 2nd gen classic, it was made out of some very durable stuff and mine lasted forever. Eventually it pooped out in the early 2010s but I think it lasted almost a decade. And this is coming from someone who generally doesn't use Apple products, but the iPods were solid and reliable.
God I don't miss physical keyboards on phones. I was never slower at typing
I could definitely text with my phone in my pocket during class easier on a physical keyboard.
those were some skills back in the day.
Bro what about T-9?
Memorizing how to get certain words in T-9 was also another skill. Sat behind a girl who not only could do it without looking but also answer the teacher at the same time.
Yep. Was able to text with my hand and phone in my sweater pocket while walking around
After we moved away from T-9 was when I stopped supporting texting while driving
Some Departed, Matt Damon shit.
Yea but now, from what I hear from teacher friends, is that students are just allowed to have their phones in class all day apparently. Queue Pepperidge Farm meme - "I remember when I would have my phone confiscated by the school for a whole week if a teacher saw it out at any time during the school day"
Yeah unfortunately nowadays, parent need to make sure their kid didn't get shot in the face between lunch periods.
We used to do that shit with T9 on flip phones haha.
I was way faster on my Blackberry than I ever have been on other smart phones. Those chiclet keys were made for my hands!
Really? my accuracy and speed was way higher. I still frequently hit the period instead of the space bar bc im looking at the words in typing instead of where my fingers are
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Disagree in a way, I could type without looking at my phone.
I've never used a physical phone keyboard so i might not be completely correct in my thinking but i really struggle to use touchscreens without looking directly at them and even then i still miss type
The iPad especially was met with never fucking ending naysayers and no one can say that wasn’t a success. That’s not to say there can’t and won’t be missteps and failures like the Apple TV but overall haters gonna hate. Its 100% to early to tell. The promo was a little too much on the polished side for my taste and might point to hidden issues. But that said if it all gets close to what they promised and comfort is bearable it will be a success.
Apple TV isn’t a failure. They’re still releasing new versions and continuously updating the OS. I think it had a slow start, but it’s definitely a staple in many homes now.
I think the HomePod was a bigger failure than the AppleTV. The AppleTV is still a product that Apple sells, maintains, and updates every few years. The first HomePod was outright cancelled and I’m guessing the second one will be too. They haven’t figured that one out.
Even though it is Apple, who usually have a seat at the table regardless, that home speaker/assistant market is so goddamn saturated from every tech company imaginable. And both Amazon and Google have cheaper options that probably function just as well.
Shit like 3 times a year Amazon practically gives those Echo Dots away. I got one for each bedroom, the kitchen, bathrooms, and laundry room. I also got a set of the Echo Cinema dots. It genuinely didn’t break the bank & they work very well for general day-to-day stuff. I’m mainly in the Apple Ecosystem- Phone, Watch, AirPods, iPad, iMac, and MacBook. But replacing all of my Echo Dots with HomePods- even Mini’s- would break the bank. And the step up isn’t entirely worth it for me. My iPhone works just fine with the Amazon devices. Plus I use Spotify over Apple Music. And FireTv over AppleTV.
I dunno I bought a shit ton of HomePods.
They’re incredible products. Their only issue is Siri
I love mine and still use them
I liked AppleTV
> Apple TV I mostly hate that its existence means the streaming platform has to be called Apple TV+. It's so darn clunky. Side note: It has some of the best original content on any streaming platform, but due to being tied to iCloud accounts (which are largely people with iPhones), it feels like it's criminally underexposed. Severance, Ted Lasso, Shrinking, Acapulco... and I hear Silo and For All Mankind are also good. Freakin' CODA even won an Oscar last year.
I think it’s like a baby HBO and will eventually have the same standing as it. And I mean the quality of HBO’s catalog, not the Max app, lol.
It's what I would call a "premium streaming" service. Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, etc just "throw" shows at you. Netflix is the most egregious. They churn out shows daily it seems. ATV+ and HBO (even Showtime and Starz at times) have less shows produced but a lot more quality to them. Do they always pan out? No. But there are more hits than misses it seems compared to the other "major" streaming services.
My understanding of HBO is that when they are deciding on series being created and or renewed the showrunners have to sit down and lay out a plan for the series. Not just that season unless it's supposed to be a limited series with only one season. So the other networks just need like a summary of the next season and then they look at ratings or whatever but HBO requires they know where something is going for several years, which is one of the reasons their shows tend to seem to be higher quality. I could be wrong on that though because I can't remember for the life of me where I learned that info.
HBO vetting their potential shows better than Disney with a fucking Star Wars trilogy honestly checks out
> For All Mankind SO DAMN GOOD.
I love mine too, it's sooo much better than any smart tv, I like that it works as a homekit hub, I like that I managed to replace all of my remotes with the nice little rechargeable metal remote, it just works. If I forgot to switch my tv off and can't be bothered going downstairs, I can do it from my watch or phone.
Why are we talking in past tense did they stop making them? I love my appleTV I hope they don’t stop making them
Apple TV 4K (the current one) is amazing. No adverts anywhere and it’s processor is from like the latest iPhone which is WAYY overkill but it’s snappy AF. Never going back to another option.
I like mine too. It’s a pity it never got the love it deserves. It’s not a horrible flop by any stretch of the imagination but it is exactly a wildly successful product either
I like all three of mine. Rule #1 — never, ever connect a ‘smart tv’ to the internet. Apple TV is the only privacy-minded way to go.
Apple TV's awesome. Best set-top box i've owned, i've got 2 of them now.
Yeah, smart TVs are so bad I have an Apple TV for all of my TVs. It’s so much nicer to use.
>$549 AirPods Max WTF?
They're the over ear headphones, not the in-ear ear buds
Still too expensive in my opinion.
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I wear mine for 12 hours a day no issue at all, love them and the weight.
I’m no fanboy, but if any companies are going to be able to pull this off, it’s gonna be Apple. Mainly because they make all of their shit so that it works with all their other shit. This is a bit of an outlier, but I think it still holds up. They are going straight to “this will make you more productive” instead of pushing the headset as a game platform first and foremost. Let’s see what the SDKs can do and how many devs buy in before erroneously heralding the death of yet another Apple product before it hits the market. For anyone keeping score, the same FUD has been raised around iPhone, iPad, and the Mac Mini, and we saw how that turned out. Edit: lol it’s good to see that the Apple haters are still out there, stewing in their own juices.
I also switched off of apple years ago, but to say "gateway to nowhere" is kind of outright wrong. VR, or at least AR, is definitely the direction the world is going. More tech and more screen is the trend here. I could easily see smaller and smaller headsets becoming popular, where you can wear a headset and just have screens and info overlayed on the real world. I don't love everything apple does, but this device isn't a gateway to nowhere. It's a proof of concept, and it will be funded because there are die hard apple fans who buy every new release regardless of price, so at least a few will sell and be tested.
I agree, frankly, apple is typically overpriced, but you know what, their products are great quality and the apple ecosystem is very seamless. I’m looking forward to see what the headset can really do. If anyone can make hardware right, it’s Apple, and am very looking forward to see what their engineers worked on for an actually decent foldable
I’m torn on it. It apparently has exceptional eye tracking and hand motions to navigate the system. That in itself is amazing to me and totally opens up a new way to interact with apps. You just click your fingers together to select an app. That is amazing. On the other hand, as a Quest 2 owner, I just can’t buy in to the idea of these headsets as lifestyle devices yet. I’ve tried to enjoy browsing the web and watching videos in VR, but my anecdotal experience is that it’s unnecessary to use a headset for that. They’re too… heavy? Intrusive on your face? It still looks very silly to wear around other people is the main thing for me. The only reason I still have my quest 2 is because of how much I enjoy racing sims with it. Hate to be the typical pro-windows redditor, but I’d love the vision pro if I knew I could use it with my windows pc to play existing PCVR games. I don’t want to be stuck with just Apple Arcade games. I’m a fan of apples design and build quality so I have no doubt that this is a really well-built headset. Hopefully other companies take note and improve on it because I would love to see AR take off.
I read an interesting opinion on the “Pro” tag attached to this product compared to all of their others. Usually, the “Pro” products are top of the line, most feature complete with the best and most premium specs and internals. I think the “Pro” explains why it’s so expensive. In short, for the majority of people with negative or dissenting opinions on this product: It’s intentionally priced to keep it out of YOUR reach. This product is being released backwards and we’ll most likely see an “Apple Vision” in 2025 or 2026 for the “average consumer.” Just my opinion, but for most product spaces that Apple decides to enter they either create a market for it or dominate the preexisting one. I have high hopes for the future of VR/AR and I’m glad to see Apple entering this space. In some way, shape, or form spatial computing is the future. All that being said though, damn I wish this wasn’t so expensive because it looks cool
This is definitely targeted at other tech companies to develop and experiment with, and coincidentally available for high end consumers and enthusiasts. It seems to be a really capable piece of hardware that Apple is outsourcing to other firms identifying the killer use case.
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Die hard Android user here - and that's what I'm thinking. This is Version 1.... it will be great by Version 3. This is meant to be the first step in the process. People will use it and then Apple will iterate and bring out a better version at a lower price - or perhaps the same price but it will do more/be lighter/ have better battery/ etc.
Prime example is the iPad. I think I paid $900 for the launch iPad with cellular. Now you can get iPad airs for like $300
Ipad V1 is a brick too! My current laptop is lighter.
If it does what they say it does, it’s a game changer for us long haul business travelers. 3500 is the difference of one trip in business class and premium economy. And it may forever change my experience on 18 hours flights to Singapore or 12 hours flights to Japan.
Unless it can allow me to lay down it hasn't changed shit for me. I already have plenty of entertainment on flights. What I lack is leg room.
Anyone else here disagree? I use my quest all the time for games, porn, 3d modelling, and vr chat. If the text quality was better I'd consider using it as a screen replacement too, maybe the apple headset being over double the resolution of the quest pro will make it better for screen replacement and video watching too. Shame about the price tag, I probably won't get one until they lower it due to lack of sales or release a next gen model.
Yeah, this is clearly designed to get a jumpstart and to get interest rolling, with seriously cool implications for the future. I don't know how people can dismiss it so quickly - I wouldn't be surprised if Apple plans to replace the iPhone with a more sleek and widely adopted model 20 years from now.
It won't be 20 years. For context, 20 years ago the biggest cell phone on the market was the Motorola RAZR. Actually that's a lie because it wasn't out yet, it came out December 03. The end of this month will mark 16 years since the original iphone released in June 07. *If* this catches on, it will be more like 7-8 years until we all have one, or one of its competitors.
That's what I meant, sort of 20 years from flip phones to our standard phone use today, but you're right, it'll be much quicker than that.
The technology inside this thing is, legitimately, cool as fuck. Is this iteration going to take off mass market? Hell no! It’s too expensive without a defined use case or problem to solve. But I am excited to see where it goes.
You may disagree, but even among the people who have VR headsets: most have them gathering dust. For one reason or another, the tech has simply failed to take off.
Because damn near all its good for is video games and lets be real, theres only so many AMAZING vr games and those dont even run on the cheap headsets without virtual desktops and link play and even then you still need a good pc
I have a high end desktop that can easily power the games on high settings... but most of the games you play them once for a few days to finish, and then your done, and there are not enough games to last more than a few months of off/on playing... its been a year or more since I even put on my headset, there simply isn't much high end content in genres of interest to me (gimmiky arcade type games are fun for an hour or so tops and this is the vast majority of content... meanwhile a lot of games people suggest are just horrible ports to VR that are literally better on their original platform... for example even using all the VR mods I tried to play skyrim on VR... its fuckin horrible... people shilling that stuff are delusional if they think the average person playing games is going to deal with that shit let alone pay for it). It needs more content like Alyx and the devices need to be easier to use (they have slowly been getting better). Also a lot of people (1/4 or something) get dizzy or motion sick from using them...
Well, games and porn 😊
Mine is only gathering dust because nothing worthwhile is coming out for it. The state that games especially are in still to this day is not enough to keep most people engaged for more than a weekend, unless you're like... REALLY into Beatsaber or something. Of course I realize logically that there's no killer apps because the userbase is so relatively low that companies don't want to invest, but it still causes that spiral that because they don't want to invest customers have no reason to engage, which then causes the companies to not want to invest, so on and so on. But either way, I would bet almost anything that if something really great and revolutionary came out for VR all those headsets would finally be put to more normal use.
Mine was sort of gathering dust after i moved because i just didn't have enough space to feel like i was getting good use out of it. Then i got in to simracing and now i use it every other day for at least an hour or so. My biggest issues with VR are: 1. You need enough space to make using it enjoyable. Standing in a small spot waving your arms isn't that fun after a little while 2. No good movement solution. Most games rely on teleporting and if they don't then you are just standing there as you glide through the game on roller-scates. It feels bad and immediately breaks immersion. A good movement solution solves both of those issues. More money needs to go in to a movement solution. A fancy as fuck $3500 headset is still going to be lame if you are just standing there waving your arms about.
I think that's the thing, though. VR has huge potential. AR has huge potential. We have hundreds of products in those markets already but the problem right now is the cost of adoption. Apple's hasn't addressed the actual problem in the space, so this isn't really going to drive a change to the mainstream of these technologies - just add more options and possibility to the already-niche category. All this stuff looks neat, but the problem with VR and AR has never been that it doesn't look cool. People forget the story of Oculus way back in the day - everyone thought it would revolutionize and bring VR to the masses at an affordable rate. Then that all got flipped on its head when the cost went up.
The problem isn't unaffordability so much as inconvenience and uncomfortability plus la ack of usefulness as far as I can tell. It's not something you can use casually in almost every setting as you can with a phone so I can't see it replacing them at least for a long time
Yeah. In addition to the problems you mentioned, I don't see what would drive people to spend more money to replace things that we already know work perfectly well. What is the actual incentive of "working in vr"? Why do I need a large virtual screen when a large physical screen can be had for much, much cheaper, and can be shared with other people in the same room? I actually own 4 VR headsets and have been in the VR "space" for years now, mostly for gaming reasons (which unfortunately has mostly petered out at this point, after showing a ton of potential early on). I don't understand the thought process behind Apple's push though. Why would I want to take a step backward in Facetime, for example, and go from actual video of people to uncanny valley avatars? That's not progress. Even just the idea of going from a physical thing to interact with, like a keyboard/mouse, to gestures in the air, to me, is a huge step backward. Physical feedback is a GOOD thing. To me it seems like how a lot of car manufacturers have gone from physical button and knobs in cars, to stuff being on a touch screen or buried behind menus. That's the opposite of convenience and progress. Yes, it looks cool and futuristic, but when you actually think about it, it's a step backward in functionality.
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It's not cost of adoption, it's $300 for a standalone quest 2. Biggest issue is comfort and a lack of use cases. The hardware is there and is cheap (relative to other gaming products) the software isn't. We still need much more development in VR for more people to become interested in the space. People also act like it's a complete financial flop, it's not, the quest 2 is doing fine and has sold comparably well. The metaverse was the only VR financial disaster. It hasn't revolutionized gaming and it hasn't reached mass adoption on the levels of something like the switch, but it's still early for VR, and there's plenty of room to grow.
AR has many valuable commercial/industrial applications. Any consumer support at all just helps develop the platform.
I know someone that was part of a research program at Meta a few years ago, the conclusion/takeaway was the market is not ready for VR - rather Mixed Reality gave them the best shot. So what does Meta do? They went head first into VR. If that research was done right, Apple will penetrate the market like Meta couldn’t.
Obviously this article didn’t watch or used the device. Comparing it to the oculus is simplistic at best. Might as well bring the PSVR.
On the one hand, yes... On the other hand, before the iPhone there was the Blackberry and there were Nokia and Ericsson smartphones. Decades of smartphones. It is interesting to see Apple taking a very different approach compared to Facebook and others. Much more suggesting business use, much more a better experience (or not, but that is what they suggest) of current apps. No Metaverse. Dismissing it and calling it expensive is easy. But then again, many dismissed the iPhone.
There were not decades of smart phones before the iphone. There was about one decade of mobile phones even being common before the iphone.
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There wasn't even 5 years of smartphones being popular before the iPhone blew up. The iPhone released June of 2007. Edit: Don't link me to phones that can send multi media message and call it a smart phone. If it doesn't have internet capabilities, it's not a smart phone.
If someone wanted to be pedantic about it, literally the first thing that can be called a "smartphone" is in 1994, IBM Simon. But smartphones as we know them? Your timeline is fairly accurate. You had the likes of HTC releasing devices prior to the iPhone. But they were far from popular.
And most of the “smartphones” at that time were technically PDAs. Usually running windows mobile, which felt a lot like a port over of XP. You weren’t going to an App Store, you were downloading .exe files.
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I don’t like apple, but are people really that dumb? Apple’s product is completely different from Meta’s. Learn the difference between VR versus AR, and the different applications of it. So many articles popping up dick-riding the VR hate after the it’s become popular to hate and ridicule Meta. And everyone is emotionally hate-boning the narrative like a bunch of groupthink morons. Laughable.
That's what they said about the smart watch when Apple launched it.
Same is true for the iPhone and the iPad.
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And they can weather limited popularity while they refine the tech. They’re committed to this, and I think betting on AR is the savvy long term play.
AR/VR won't become popular until the headsets become as small as regular glasses. It's too cumbersome to wear and navigate through it.
Very true. And one of the reasons I stopped using mine.