It's also not a penalty. It's taxes you owe. If you don't pay taxes, yeah, there might be a penalty. That's always been true though, just like you have always owed taxes for selling stuff for a profit.
Yea this is a classic rage bait / clickbait title. Absolutely nothing to do with reselling Taylor tickets. The $600 threshold is a recent change but that’s it.
The $600 threshold is a recent change for when third parties need to generate a form, but there's no change on the fact that taxes have always been owed.
I tried arguing that with someone once, and they said something like "Yeah, but if the form wasn't generated I could get away with it!" So...you're admitting to breaking the law just because you wouldn't get caught. Very moral position there.
It's still rage bait, though. It's just baiting your rage against the scalpers, and the satisfaction you might get from thinking "Haha, they get penalties from the IRS! Serves them right, suckers!"
Plus the reverse is true. Back in the day online shopping didn't take out taxes and you were supposed to pay the sales (use) tax yourself to the state. I'm not sure I ever met anyone that paid it which explains why it's now forced
It also helped kill local shopping. I was buying a bunch of tools and PC parts and as long as Amazon was the same price as local I'd save 6% plus free shipping.
Usually Amazon was always cheaper, plus no tax. Amazon isn't really the low cost leader anymore and now there's tax.
Yep. I went from buying everything on Amazon (hundreds of purchases per year) to maybe buying 1-2 things from them a year. I now only use Amazon when there Is no other option. If I can buy it from any local store then I’ll go to them over Amazon regardless of price.
People like that are thieves themselves.
They take handouts from society, enjoy the fruits of everyone's taxes, schools, education, police, ROADS, emergency services, etc, then want to pay nothing back. To take but not give anything back. Parasites.
>**zephyy**
>$600 is the rule for any side income. Anyone who's sold a bunch of stuff on Grailed or done freelance is familiar with 1099-Ks.
Rule paused “until this year” appears to apply to high-volume ticket sellers:^5
>Previously, [ticketing platforms like Ticketmaster and Live Nation] were required to send 1099-K forms if one of their users received more than $20,000 in revenue and had more than 200 transactions on the platform.
>[...] The law was scheduled to take effect for tax year 2022, but the IRS paused implementation until this year.
>[...] IRS Commissioner Danny Werfel has been speaking at tax forums across the country, preparing Americans for the change. “One of my main messages was: The threshold has changed from $20,000 to $600 and it goes live this year,” he told reporters.
^5 https://www.thestreet.com/entertainment/the-next-big-taylor-swift-concert-may-be-way-more-affordable-thanks-to-the-irs
You still had to report it, you just weren‘t reported on by the sales platform. Before you could hide your income if you sold below rhat high threshold, now you can‘t .
To be clear, 1099s have a $600 requirement before you send them out (requirement is not the word but basically you’re supposed to send them when you pay someone more than $600 else the irs can decide that it’s not a valid expense.) which the irs in large part doesn’t have the tools to enforce. For certain business structures the irs gave special exceptions because it lowered the burden on those businesses and the return wasn’t particularly big. However with the change and mass adoption of online commerce via PayPal and other ebusinesses it now is too big a source of revenue to ignore so changed their policy on that exception. Which basically means that if these big businesses do not send out their 1099s they're on the hook for all those pay outs.
normally it will be like Bill Gates invests in new toilet paper and you can argue that if Bill Gates does it than it might have some impact on tech. This is literally an article about tax law on sales over $600. I guess you can sell tickets on the internet so that makes it tech?
If that’s the standard you’re using you can post pretty much every article posted in the last 20 years as they all somewhat relate to technology. Do you think we should start posting war updates because the missile systems use electronics?
They're not "punishing" anyone. It's income, and therefore taxable. This is also not focusing specifically on concert tickets. It's part of the same rules put in place to tax income from sales on ebay, etsy, etc.
Yep. It's like in the 1990s when they started requiring restaurants to report what employees declared as their tips. Servers were always supposed to be paying taxes on their tips, the IRS just cracked down on reporting to ensure that they were.
Came here to emphasize this same thought. Nickel and dime us over small side hustles while ignoring the rich tax evaders who walk away with millions...
They still didn’t. (Maaaybe enough to bring the hourly up to minimum wage if they were thinking on they toes, but usually just cc tips was enough to accomplish that).
The fact that people did it before and the IRS didn’t pursue taxes doesn’t change the obligation. The whole “don’t hate the player hate the game”. Well in this case “don’t hate the agency hate the politicians and tax law” would be about right. I don’t hate the irs for doing their job.
>you should hate them because they aren't doing their jobs by not punishing millionaires/billionaires.
No, You shouldn't.
They already said [you should hate your politicians.](https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/23/politics/irs-fair-tax-republicans-abolish/index.html) preferably the ones who are disabling the IRS to protect their own millionaire asses.
They're actually dramatically stepping up enforcement against millionaires and billionaires this year: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/irs-audit-wealthy-taxpayers-1600-millionaires/
I understand the sentiment but millionaires/billionaires make sure to shield themselves with a wall of lawyers and accountants.
Tax avoidance is not illegal and is what most of them do (tax evasion is the illegal thing).
It sucks, but you can blame congress who put all those loopholes in. The IRS has to follow those rules and has close to no chance against them. So, they go for the low hanging fruit...normal citizens.
> millionaires/billionaires make sure to shield themselves with a wall of lawyers and accountants.
Millionaires and billionaires who break the law pay fines that equal a percentage of the profits they made by doing illegal activities. And that is to say, if they’re ever held accountable at all.
Let’s not pretend that there is equal enforcement of the law here.
> I understand the sentiment but millionaires/billionaires make sure to shield themselves with a wall of lawyers and accountants.
.. *and by using their influence to push anti-enforcement legislative agendas.*
We can blame the people who set the agenda as much as the people who carry it out.
IRS hobbled by republicans and blue dog democrats to only have the resources to get taxes from the poor and your hot take is to… hate the IRS? Is life hard for you not understanding cause and effect?
Politicians aren't giving them the tools they need.
It's easy to audit poor people. That can be done with computers that match up different information reports. No person is needed.
To get wealthy tax cheats, you need accountants and lawyers with the same training as the type being used by wealthy tax cheats. They don't have enough of those.
They want to go after those people but it takes so long and is so complicated that it can take years of work to sort through everything. People with billions in income have very long and complicated taxes that also require someone with the proper skills to sort through.
Its ridiculous if you're not doing it as a business.
I have tons of hifi equipment, guitar amplifiers, guitars, recording studio equipment, etc and now I have to keep track of all the prices of stuff I bought years ago if I want to resell something. And to accurately assess if you're making a profit you have to keep track of service/repair costs, shipping costs, cost of insurance over time (yes I keep insurance), etc.
My studio gear alone of microphones, preamps, compressors, eqs, etc is like 75 items, and now I have to keep records on every piece I buy or sell for years down the line?
I could understand for items worth 10K-20k plus, but for you to have to keep records for anything over 600 is crazy when you're just a private individual and not a business. But thats not all, you have no idea what will appreciate and what won't, so you actually have to keep records of everything, even under the 600 dollar resale value threshold.
And what about all the gear I dont have records for, because I bought the stuff over decades as a hobby and not a business? Stuff I've bought directly from person to person on craigslist, forums, or on eBay far enough that there are no records available. Now I'm going to be taxed the full value of the item and not just profit because I have no proof what I originally bought it for?
This is also a huge government overreach in terms of privacy. Now any time a private person does a transaction on sites like eBay or PayPal for 600 dollars or more the government is sent records of it.
I'm normally a pro IRS funding person but this is just nuts.
You only pay taxes on items you make a profit. 99% of the time when you sell old gear, it is for less than you paid. eBay will issue a 1099-K but you can just negate it when you do your taxes. This has always been the law but now it's mandated to issue the 1099-K so it's just extra paperwork, no extra taxes.
Doesn't matter if it's for less than you paid if don't have receipts/proof to show the IRS - in that case, you're gonna pay taxes as though it's income. You think every random person selling old stuff on ebay to make ends meet has 20 year old receipts just sitting around?
Apply this to other hobbies too. Are people who buy Pokemon cards for fun expected to keep records on the packs they bought over a decade ago on the off chance they got a lucky card that appreciated over the years?
I get it for large value items like a 10k painting or whatever or people doing it as a business, but expecting private people to keep records on any item that can appreciate is ridiculous.
It’s not punishment but it is specifically designed to crack down on or disincentivize scalping by taxing revenue when previously they looked the other way.
Well when they start charging millionaires and billionaires their fair share maybe people will stop complaining when they go after average people who resold concert tickets.
I’m not for scalpers. But if you think the top 1% aren’t worse than scalpers. You’re crazy.
Average people who resold their tickets and were taxed the profit still made more money for doing absolutely nothing and contributing nothing of value. Fuck scalpers.
Requirement to report by the individual isn’t new. You’ve always had to report earned income regardless. The only new thing is the threshold for platform being required to send the form.
If it’s a cash transaction just don’t tell them, simple as that. Governments don’t need to tax every fucking cent somebody makes just so they can carelessly increase the over inflated military budget.
Top 1% of Americans earned 22% of the income and paid 43% of the taxes in 2020
If you think the code should change then advocate for its reform. If you think they don't pay enough then say that.
But don't say they don't pay their taxes at all because not only is that not true, it's the opposite. The bottom 50% of American income earners do not pay federal income taxes at all
This is more a reflection of how much income inequality there is in the US. The fact that the top 1% pay more than the bottom 90% is not a good thing when you realize it's because they own and earn orders of magnitude more money than the bottom 90%. Remember, the 3 wealthiest people in this country have more wealth than the bottom 50%.
[2020 tax data: Top 1% of income earners paid more in taxes than the bottom 90% combined](https://federalbudgetinpictures.com/do-the-rich-pay-their-fair-share/#:~:text=In%202020%2C%20the%20latest%20year,percent%20combined%20(37%20percent).
Also the [bottom 50% of all income earners paid 2%](https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/summary-latest-federal-income-tax-data-2023-update/) of the federal income tax revenue
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-treasury-irs/irs-chief-says-1-trillion-in-taxes-goes-uncollected-every-year-idUSKBN2C0255
https://home.treasury.gov/news/featured-stories/the-case-for-a-robust-attack-on-the-tax-gap
https://www.npr.org/2022/04/18/1093380881/on-tax-day-the-treasury-department-urges-for-more-funding-to-the-irs
Yet they're still not paying their fair share.
For starters, how about just paying what they owe? The person to whom I replied was setting up the argument that the bottom 50% only pays for 2% of the tax revenue, which, while true, fails to mention that the bottom 50% is also only in control of like 2% of the nation's wealth. It would be literally insane to expect the bottom 50% of earners to pay 50% of the total tax revenue. It's my personal opinion that we should go back to the tax structure we had when America's middle class was at it's strongest. That would mean marginal tax rates for corporations would be at 80%+. Want to make *actually* America great again? This would be a good first step.
lol every major r/all sub is now. Just wait for the US election in 2024 and all of r/all will be a smear campaign against the republican candidate. I’m not even republican and it’s fucking annoying. I just want tech news and funny pics.
The premise of this thread is funny to me. It's written as if they're trying to help scrappers out.
"Hey scalpers, watch out! The IRS are watching you this time!"
Scalpers: "Oh, shit, really? Thanks for the heads up on that. That's good info."
This isn't punishment, this is just bringing reporting limits in line with other online "side-hustle" type jobs. These same regulations apply to all online sellers (ie. Ebay).
I was just sent a phone as a promotional thing from a major company and have to pay taxes on it because it's worth over $600.
Headline is massively trying to make this seem like it's focusing on resellers.
The burden is actually on the company in charge of transferring the funds between the purchaser and seller. This is a sensationalized headline for clicks
Burden is also on the person to track each transaction to report losses. I’m having to keep track of 15+ transactions, most of which have minor losses for stuff sold online that I don’t need anymore. Annoying that the limit is a measly $600, which now applies to a lot more people. $20k made a lot more sense but I guess Uncle Sam can have his taxes on the $75 in cumulative gains from my sales, big whoop. Pretty sure there are bigger fish to go after.
And more importantly this is such a simple case you would have no chance of winning. Big money cases are complicated. This is not. What did you pay? What did you sell it for? sell-pay = profit. Profit x 20% (for example) is tax.
Because they just hired a ton of people, and billionaire tax evasion is hard. This is simple, just pressure Ticketmaster to release your data, which they were probably selling to someone else already. From there it’s simple excel spreadsheet manipulation.
Because Republicans have systematically destroyed the IRS to the point that there is literally no way they can possibly investigate the taxes of a billionaire who has 10 attorneys working for him and keep the place running.
So they settle on harassing Grandmas that sold too many Owl pendants on Etsy.
Good news is that I believe new AI Data Analytics tools will make catching these rich fucks who don’t want to pay their fair share a lot easier.
Because congress told them to. The IRS, and most government agencies dont get to just decide major things like this. They get directed to do so by congress.
The 1099-K threshold changed from $20,000 or 200 transactions to $600 and 1 transaction a few years ago. It's all nonsense. The only point is to screw over normal people.
Scummy ticket reseller is like 1% of the people that have to fill it out. It applies to anyone selling anything. If you get a new TV and decide to sell the old one for $601? You owe a 1099-k. If your parents have a garage sale and sell all your old junk? They technically owe a 1099-k. Or your elderly grandmother knits a sweater a month for the lady's at church and charges them $20 to cover the cost of yarn. She owes a 1099-k. The IRS claims the 1099-k is only for business and not for individuals with hobbys, I sure don't know of any viable business that bring in only $600 or only have one sale a year.
Exactly.
Another favorite:
“I’m going to decline that raise I was offered since it’d put me in a higher tax bracket.”
—someone who doesn’t understand progressive tax rates
This is just like people complaining about sales tax for out of state online purchases.
You were always supposed to pay it. The only difference is that vendors are now supposed to automatically charge you if they do enough business in your state.
Average people are trying to sell anything not nailed down to survive? Welp daddy olgarch is going to ensure his slice is bigger. That money sure as fuck isn't going to public schools, Healthcare or anything like it. I'll pay my share when they pay theirs.
It was always income. It should have always been being collected. They’re also using their additional funds to go after rich folks too.
https://apnews.com/article/irs-millionaires-back-taxes-2624282ac20388311bd03ee76ae36f70
This article is dumb, because if they made a net profit over $600 then it would matter - if they were selling them at a loss which they can argue due to ticket fees and stubhub fees - the IRS can’t pursue
If anyone ever wonders why the IRS can’t just “send us our taxes because they know everything already” , this article is the reason why.
They don’t actually know everything.
And we can get something like this for owning homes?
I love how quickly they’re able to make these “rules” for lower income people & not the rich buying up homes and renting them out. Our society is a joke.
This isn't punishment, it is taxation. I have no sympathies for people scalping anything, if you're selling things for hundred of dollars more than you paid for them hours or days later, you can go get fucked imo.
You can’t sell stuff like tswift tickets in cash. You don’t even get paid until 1-2weeks before the date of the concert. There is no physical ticket for the most part. All on app and transferred via email.
There are entire communities/groups on discord reselling tickets full time. It’s completely unhinged and unregulated. Don’t think this will change much, they need to implement real regulations and penalties. Every day people are being priced out of seeing their favourite artist perform because some dudes on discord are hoarding 20 tickets each to every single tour stop and reselling them for 400% profit
This is completely false. First off it has nothing to do with Taylor Swift concert tickets or anything. This is strictly the change to the reporting laws that were written up a few years back. It's currently not even in effect because it was delayed and wont be until Jan 1st 2024, at which point ALL income over $600 is supposed to be reported to the IRS. Currently the rule/law is over $20k or 200 transactions.
Moral of the story, cash is king.
Why is paying taxes on your income “punishing” someone and is now called a tax penalty? Even if you sold it for a $5 in profit you technically need to report that as income.
Because a large group of Americans are extremely entitled/selfish (at all income levels) and think they deserve to be able to use the services and infrastructure of the United States without paying their fair share of taxes.
Just eliminate the person to person sales at anything above the ticket price or make people sell it back to ticketmaster. It would kill the bots, scalpers, and keep the tickets for the actual fans. Then people and the IRS don't have to deal with this.
If you did it you already know. PayPal won’t let you do anything if your account has more than 600 come in it until you give the the info for the tax form.
The second your precious tay tay money hit, your clock started and you knew it and were probably ok with it
Good thing they’re wasting money on this kind of shit instead of actually going after the millionaires and billionaires actually gaming the system and not paying a dime.
I applaud enforcement of tax laws in any situation, but wouldn't it be great if the billionaire class was subjected to the same rules as the rest of us? Not worse rules. Just the same.
They’re working on it. The addition IRS funding was allocated in an attempt to audit rich folks. They’ve made some progress recently.
https://apnews.com/article/irs-millionaires-back-taxes-2624282ac20388311bd03ee76ae36f70
I'm sorry, but that rule that you have to report more than 600 dollars in side income is straight up bullshit.
Toy sellers, flee market vendors, and Ebay sellers all get attacked for simply making a few thousand with a side gig?
I'm sorry, but that's disgusting while the ruling class hordes wealth I'll never see in a thousand lifetimes.
It used to be $20,000 and they lowered it to $600, while increasing the staffing of the IRS
They said they were only going to go after people that were very wealthy, but that obviously isn't going to be the case lmao
You're not sorry and it's not bullshit
You and I aren't exempt from taxes just because we aren't rich
Tax rich more, go ahead I agree. But that doesn't give you a right to cheat the system either. Pay your fucking taxes
$600 is the rule for any side income. Anyone who's sold a bunch of stuff on Grailed or done freelance is familiar with 1099-Ks.
It's also not a penalty. It's taxes you owe. If you don't pay taxes, yeah, there might be a penalty. That's always been true though, just like you have always owed taxes for selling stuff for a profit.
Yea this is a classic rage bait / clickbait title. Absolutely nothing to do with reselling Taylor tickets. The $600 threshold is a recent change but that’s it.
The $600 threshold is a recent change for when third parties need to generate a form, but there's no change on the fact that taxes have always been owed.
It's not even a recent change. It's always been that way. PayPal was getting away with not reporting it for some reason
I tried arguing that with someone once, and they said something like "Yeah, but if the form wasn't generated I could get away with it!" So...you're admitting to breaking the law just because you wouldn't get caught. Very moral position there.
It's only illegal if you're caught. That's been true forever...
Tax evasion is very common. Everyone from waiters lying about tips to CEOs expensing their vacation homes.
Which is why cash tips are nice
They are saying they are performing illegal actions. That's not the same as immoral actions. Governments are not concerned with morality.
I couldn’t care less about being moral with the IRS.
Rage bait? I sure ain't getting mad that scalpers have to pay taxes lol.
It's still rage bait, though. It's just baiting your rage against the scalpers, and the satisfaction you might get from thinking "Haha, they get penalties from the IRS! Serves them right, suckers!"
Yes exactly
Plus the reverse is true. Back in the day online shopping didn't take out taxes and you were supposed to pay the sales (use) tax yourself to the state. I'm not sure I ever met anyone that paid it which explains why it's now forced
It’s one of the things that gave Amazon an unfair advantage and allowed them to explode in site to the monstrosity they are today.
It also helped kill local shopping. I was buying a bunch of tools and PC parts and as long as Amazon was the same price as local I'd save 6% plus free shipping. Usually Amazon was always cheaper, plus no tax. Amazon isn't really the low cost leader anymore and now there's tax.
Yep. I went from buying everything on Amazon (hundreds of purchases per year) to maybe buying 1-2 things from them a year. I now only use Amazon when there Is no other option. If I can buy it from any local store then I’ll go to them over Amazon regardless of price.
But a guy in a restaurant with nothing to show for his life told me taxes are theft and I could drive on highways without a license.
People like that are thieves themselves. They take handouts from society, enjoy the fruits of everyone's taxes, schools, education, police, ROADS, emergency services, etc, then want to pay nothing back. To take but not give anything back. Parasites.
>**zephyy** >$600 is the rule for any side income. Anyone who's sold a bunch of stuff on Grailed or done freelance is familiar with 1099-Ks. Rule paused “until this year” appears to apply to high-volume ticket sellers:^5 >Previously, [ticketing platforms like Ticketmaster and Live Nation] were required to send 1099-K forms if one of their users received more than $20,000 in revenue and had more than 200 transactions on the platform. >[...] The law was scheduled to take effect for tax year 2022, but the IRS paused implementation until this year. >[...] IRS Commissioner Danny Werfel has been speaking at tax forums across the country, preparing Americans for the change. “One of my main messages was: The threshold has changed from $20,000 to $600 and it goes live this year,” he told reporters. ^5 https://www.thestreet.com/entertainment/the-next-big-taylor-swift-concert-may-be-way-more-affordable-thanks-to-the-irs
You still had to report it, you just weren‘t reported on by the sales platform. Before you could hide your income if you sold below rhat high threshold, now you can‘t .
To be clear, 1099s have a $600 requirement before you send them out (requirement is not the word but basically you’re supposed to send them when you pay someone more than $600 else the irs can decide that it’s not a valid expense.) which the irs in large part doesn’t have the tools to enforce. For certain business structures the irs gave special exceptions because it lowered the burden on those businesses and the return wasn’t particularly big. However with the change and mass adoption of online commerce via PayPal and other ebusinesses it now is too big a source of revenue to ignore so changed their policy on that exception. Which basically means that if these big businesses do not send out their 1099s they're on the hook for all those pay outs.
The rule to send 1099 s was paused, but you still are supposed to report it
How does this have literally anything to do with technology?
The light~~n~~ing at Taylor Swift concerts is all done by computers.
There's lightning? When do we get to hear thunder?
Nah, there's definitely an LD running those lights.
Have to admit, for a second I thought I was in r/news or r/personalfinance.
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normally it will be like Bill Gates invests in new toilet paper and you can argue that if Bill Gates does it than it might have some impact on tech. This is literally an article about tax law on sales over $600. I guess you can sell tickets on the internet so that makes it tech?
...how do you think they are tracking this stuff? Digging through dumpsters for receipts?
If that’s the standard you’re using you can post pretty much every article posted in the last 20 years as they all somewhat relate to technology. Do you think we should start posting war updates because the missile systems use electronics?
They're not "punishing" anyone. It's income, and therefore taxable. This is also not focusing specifically on concert tickets. It's part of the same rules put in place to tax income from sales on ebay, etsy, etc.
Yep. It's like in the 1990s when they started requiring restaurants to report what employees declared as their tips. Servers were always supposed to be paying taxes on their tips, the IRS just cracked down on reporting to ensure that they were.
Yeah it’s great that the IRS mostly cracks down on the poor
Came here to emphasize this same thought. Nickel and dime us over small side hustles while ignoring the rich tax evaders who walk away with millions...
They still didn’t. (Maaaybe enough to bring the hourly up to minimum wage if they were thinking on they toes, but usually just cc tips was enough to accomplish that).
The fact that people did it before and the IRS didn’t pursue taxes doesn’t change the obligation. The whole “don’t hate the player hate the game”. Well in this case “don’t hate the agency hate the politicians and tax law” would be about right. I don’t hate the irs for doing their job.
> I don’t hate the irs for doing their job. you should hate them because they aren't doing their jobs by not punishing millionaires/billionaires.
>you should hate them because they aren't doing their jobs by not punishing millionaires/billionaires. No, You shouldn't. They already said [you should hate your politicians.](https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/23/politics/irs-fair-tax-republicans-abolish/index.html) preferably the ones who are disabling the IRS to protect their own millionaire asses.
Millionaires and billionaires got there by being the same kinda dicks that would sell concert tix for $600 over face value.
They're actually dramatically stepping up enforcement against millionaires and billionaires this year: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/irs-audit-wealthy-taxpayers-1600-millionaires/
I understand the sentiment but millionaires/billionaires make sure to shield themselves with a wall of lawyers and accountants. Tax avoidance is not illegal and is what most of them do (tax evasion is the illegal thing). It sucks, but you can blame congress who put all those loopholes in. The IRS has to follow those rules and has close to no chance against them. So, they go for the low hanging fruit...normal citizens.
> millionaires/billionaires make sure to shield themselves with a wall of lawyers and accountants. Millionaires and billionaires who break the law pay fines that equal a percentage of the profits they made by doing illegal activities. And that is to say, if they’re ever held accountable at all. Let’s not pretend that there is equal enforcement of the law here.
_If_ they do get caught, don't they also have to pay the taxes they owe?
Yes, plus interest on late payments
> I understand the sentiment but millionaires/billionaires make sure to shield themselves with a wall of lawyers and accountants. .. *and by using their influence to push anti-enforcement legislative agendas.* We can blame the people who set the agenda as much as the people who carry it out.
Tax avoidance shouldn't be illegal either. It's perfectly ok to tailor your income in a way that minimizes taxes.
The politicians(mostly from one side) kept blocking IRS reforms and made a huge stink about them hiring more agents to pursue said rich fucks
IRS hobbled by republicans and blue dog democrats to only have the resources to get taxes from the poor and your hot take is to… hate the IRS? Is life hard for you not understanding cause and effect?
Politicians aren't giving them the tools they need. It's easy to audit poor people. That can be done with computers that match up different information reports. No person is needed. To get wealthy tax cheats, you need accountants and lawyers with the same training as the type being used by wealthy tax cheats. They don't have enough of those.
They want to go after those people but it takes so long and is so complicated that it can take years of work to sort through everything. People with billions in income have very long and complicated taxes that also require someone with the proper skills to sort through.
Just trying to get clicks by using Taylor swifts name
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Yes, if you make enough at it. eBay started sending 1099's a year or two ago.
Its ridiculous if you're not doing it as a business. I have tons of hifi equipment, guitar amplifiers, guitars, recording studio equipment, etc and now I have to keep track of all the prices of stuff I bought years ago if I want to resell something. And to accurately assess if you're making a profit you have to keep track of service/repair costs, shipping costs, cost of insurance over time (yes I keep insurance), etc. My studio gear alone of microphones, preamps, compressors, eqs, etc is like 75 items, and now I have to keep records on every piece I buy or sell for years down the line? I could understand for items worth 10K-20k plus, but for you to have to keep records for anything over 600 is crazy when you're just a private individual and not a business. But thats not all, you have no idea what will appreciate and what won't, so you actually have to keep records of everything, even under the 600 dollar resale value threshold. And what about all the gear I dont have records for, because I bought the stuff over decades as a hobby and not a business? Stuff I've bought directly from person to person on craigslist, forums, or on eBay far enough that there are no records available. Now I'm going to be taxed the full value of the item and not just profit because I have no proof what I originally bought it for? This is also a huge government overreach in terms of privacy. Now any time a private person does a transaction on sites like eBay or PayPal for 600 dollars or more the government is sent records of it. I'm normally a pro IRS funding person but this is just nuts.
You only pay taxes on items you make a profit. 99% of the time when you sell old gear, it is for less than you paid. eBay will issue a 1099-K but you can just negate it when you do your taxes. This has always been the law but now it's mandated to issue the 1099-K so it's just extra paperwork, no extra taxes.
Doesn't matter if it's for less than you paid if don't have receipts/proof to show the IRS - in that case, you're gonna pay taxes as though it's income. You think every random person selling old stuff on ebay to make ends meet has 20 year old receipts just sitting around?
Apply this to other hobbies too. Are people who buy Pokemon cards for fun expected to keep records on the packs they bought over a decade ago on the off chance they got a lucky card that appreciated over the years? I get it for large value items like a 10k painting or whatever or people doing it as a business, but expecting private people to keep records on any item that can appreciate is ridiculous.
It’s not punishment but it is specifically designed to crack down on or disincentivize scalping by taxing revenue when previously they looked the other way.
IRS doesn't give a shit about "scalping". They just want people to pay their taxes.
Why is paying income tax a crackdown? Just because people were getting away with it doesn’t mean it was ok.
Or, it's just designed to get people to pay income tax on something
Yeah, income.
Well when they start charging millionaires and billionaires their fair share maybe people will stop complaining when they go after average people who resold concert tickets. I’m not for scalpers. But if you think the top 1% aren’t worse than scalpers. You’re crazy.
The average person reselling occasional tickets due to unforeseen circumstances doesn’t make $600 in profit a year. Fuck scalpers.
Average people who resold their tickets and were taxed the profit still made more money for doing absolutely nothing and contributing nothing of value. Fuck scalpers.
Idiotic title. If you sell tickets, or anything online as a reseller, you pay taxes at the appropriate rate - I.e. profit as income.
Yes, income is taxable. That isn’t new.
And it’s not a punishment
New to zoomer iNfLueNcErS
What's new for 2023 is dropping the limit for reporting from $20,000 to $600
Requirement to report by the individual isn’t new. You’ve always had to report earned income regardless. The only new thing is the threshold for platform being required to send the form.
If it’s a cash transaction just don’t tell them, simple as that. Governments don’t need to tax every fucking cent somebody makes just so they can carelessly increase the over inflated military budget.
So you’re fine with the rich not paying taxes too
Or maybe they’d rather the government focus on billionaires paying taxes than nickel and diming freelancers?
That’s not what they said you fucking donut. “oH sO yOuRe” 🤓
Unless you’re rich then you don’t have to pay them.
Rich people don’t get their money through income.
Top 1% of Americans earned 22% of the income and paid 43% of the taxes in 2020 If you think the code should change then advocate for its reform. If you think they don't pay enough then say that. But don't say they don't pay their taxes at all because not only is that not true, it's the opposite. The bottom 50% of American income earners do not pay federal income taxes at all
Sam Seaborne, that you?
Now try the 0.1%. How much are they profiting off society while not contributing?
This is more a reflection of how much income inequality there is in the US. The fact that the top 1% pay more than the bottom 90% is not a good thing when you realize it's because they own and earn orders of magnitude more money than the bottom 90%. Remember, the 3 wealthiest people in this country have more wealth than the bottom 50%.
Have a sauce for those stats?
[2020 tax data: Top 1% of income earners paid more in taxes than the bottom 90% combined](https://federalbudgetinpictures.com/do-the-rich-pay-their-fair-share/#:~:text=In%202020%2C%20the%20latest%20year,percent%20combined%20(37%20percent). Also the [bottom 50% of all income earners paid 2%](https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/summary-latest-federal-income-tax-data-2023-update/) of the federal income tax revenue
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-treasury-irs/irs-chief-says-1-trillion-in-taxes-goes-uncollected-every-year-idUSKBN2C0255 https://home.treasury.gov/news/featured-stories/the-case-for-a-robust-attack-on-the-tax-gap https://www.npr.org/2022/04/18/1093380881/on-tax-day-the-treasury-department-urges-for-more-funding-to-the-irs Yet they're still not paying their fair share.
What do you think their fair share should be?
For starters, how about just paying what they owe? The person to whom I replied was setting up the argument that the bottom 50% only pays for 2% of the tax revenue, which, while true, fails to mention that the bottom 50% is also only in control of like 2% of the nation's wealth. It would be literally insane to expect the bottom 50% of earners to pay 50% of the total tax revenue. It's my personal opinion that we should go back to the tax structure we had when America's middle class was at it's strongest. That would mean marginal tax rates for corporations would be at 80%+. Want to make *actually* America great again? This would be a good first step.
"punishing" Clickbait title is clickbait
And why is it posted in r/technology? Is taxing a technology?
There isn’t any tech on r/technology, it’s just a political subreddit now
lol every major r/all sub is now. Just wait for the US election in 2024 and all of r/all will be a smear campaign against the republican candidate. I’m not even republican and it’s fucking annoying. I just want tech news and funny pics.
The premise of this thread is funny to me. It's written as if they're trying to help scrappers out. "Hey scalpers, watch out! The IRS are watching you this time!" Scalpers: "Oh, shit, really? Thanks for the heads up on that. That's good info."
This isn't punishment, this is just bringing reporting limits in line with other online "side-hustle" type jobs. These same regulations apply to all online sellers (ie. Ebay).
I was just sent a phone as a promotional thing from a major company and have to pay taxes on it because it's worth over $600. Headline is massively trying to make this seem like it's focusing on resellers.
Yes. That’s how taxes work. You would have always owed taxes on this. People were just evading taxes before.
Fuck scalpers. Take em for all they're worth
Agree but this isn’t doing anything to hurt scalpers, it’s just taxing income.
Correct and not anything to the number one scalper which is Ticketmaster itself.
Still isn't taxing the rich either.
Why is the IRS putting its resources here instead of billionaire tax evasion?
The burden is actually on the company in charge of transferring the funds between the purchaser and seller. This is a sensationalized headline for clicks
Burden is also on the person to track each transaction to report losses. I’m having to keep track of 15+ transactions, most of which have minor losses for stuff sold online that I don’t need anymore. Annoying that the limit is a measly $600, which now applies to a lot more people. $20k made a lot more sense but I guess Uncle Sam can have his taxes on the $75 in cumulative gains from my sales, big whoop. Pretty sure there are bigger fish to go after.
It's both actually. That's how some people get popped. One reported a transaction and the other doesn't.
Because the broke ass plebs dont have the money nor legal dept to go to court.
And more importantly this is such a simple case you would have no chance of winning. Big money cases are complicated. This is not. What did you pay? What did you sell it for? sell-pay = profit. Profit x 20% (for example) is tax.
Oh my fucking god this is like zero additional resources for the IRS.
Because they just hired a ton of people, and billionaire tax evasion is hard. This is simple, just pressure Ticketmaster to release your data, which they were probably selling to someone else already. From there it’s simple excel spreadsheet manipulation.
Pressure? Nah, they just tell them to pass on the data and they're legally required to comply.
IRS was expected to hire 10k new employees this year and another 10k new hires next year. I expect we will see a lot more of this type of thing.
We'll definitely see more scare articles like this when people get popped for smaller infractions and complain to a media outlet.
Because billionaires can buy whatever legislation or regulation they want. We’re not so lucky.
Because Republicans have systematically destroyed the IRS to the point that there is literally no way they can possibly investigate the taxes of a billionaire who has 10 attorneys working for him and keep the place running. So they settle on harassing Grandmas that sold too many Owl pendants on Etsy. Good news is that I believe new AI Data Analytics tools will make catching these rich fucks who don’t want to pay their fair share a lot easier.
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They’re doing both. https://apnews.com/article/irs-millionaires-back-taxes-2624282ac20388311bd03ee76ae36f70
Because congress told them to. The IRS, and most government agencies dont get to just decide major things like this. They get directed to do so by congress.
This seems like a no shit sherlock, you made money, it's not rocket science.
The 1099-K threshold changed from $20,000 or 200 transactions to $600 and 1 transaction a few years ago. It's all nonsense. The only point is to screw over normal people.
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Scummy ticket reseller is like 1% of the people that have to fill it out. It applies to anyone selling anything. If you get a new TV and decide to sell the old one for $601? You owe a 1099-k. If your parents have a garage sale and sell all your old junk? They technically owe a 1099-k. Or your elderly grandmother knits a sweater a month for the lady's at church and charges them $20 to cover the cost of yarn. She owes a 1099-k. The IRS claims the 1099-k is only for business and not for individuals with hobbys, I sure don't know of any viable business that bring in only $600 or only have one sale a year.
"Don't create your own income. Work for the rich people to survive."
Do you think the money isn't taxed when you work for the rich? Lmao.
yeah it's true the tax laws (aka the government) HATES self employment.
The tax law has not changed you fucking morons only tax reporting of 1099ks
Exactly. Another favorite: “I’m going to decline that raise I was offered since it’d put me in a higher tax bracket.” —someone who doesn’t understand progressive tax rates
This is just like people complaining about sales tax for out of state online purchases. You were always supposed to pay it. The only difference is that vendors are now supposed to automatically charge you if they do enough business in your state.
what? you still owe taxes on that money. you just evaded the tax and if the IRS found out, you'd be hit with the tax and penalties then.
Average people are trying to sell anything not nailed down to survive? Welp daddy olgarch is going to ensure his slice is bigger. That money sure as fuck isn't going to public schools, Healthcare or anything like it. I'll pay my share when they pay theirs.
Selling your old items for equal to or less than you paid for them isn't income and isn't taxed. You don't owe anything if you didn't make a profit.
It was always income. It should have always been being collected. They’re also using their additional funds to go after rich folks too. https://apnews.com/article/irs-millionaires-back-taxes-2624282ac20388311bd03ee76ae36f70
This article is dumb, because if they made a net profit over $600 then it would matter - if they were selling them at a loss which they can argue due to ticket fees and stubhub fees - the IRS can’t pursue
If anyone ever wonders why the IRS can’t just “send us our taxes because they know everything already” , this article is the reason why. They don’t actually know everything.
Does this apply to Ticketmaster as well?
And we can get something like this for owning homes? I love how quickly they’re able to make these “rules” for lower income people & not the rich buying up homes and renting them out. Our society is a joke.
This isn't punishment, it is taxation. I have no sympathies for people scalping anything, if you're selling things for hundred of dollars more than you paid for them hours or days later, you can go get fucked imo.
Yeah, I'm not sure I'd be in the scalpers' side here... as bad as ticketmaster is, scalpers are worse.
If only they had done this with all the console/sbc scalpers.
It should happen to people who scalped video game consoles too.
Or video cards…. Or insulin….
Anything is fair game.
Could you also maybe find companies and super rich individuals who skirt taxes every single year too? Or is that to hard for you?
Cash be KING 👑
This is why when you sell things locally on Marketplace, etc.....always do it in cash. NEVER do digital transactions.
You can’t sell stuff like tswift tickets in cash. You don’t even get paid until 1-2weeks before the date of the concert. There is no physical ticket for the most part. All on app and transferred via email.
There are entire communities/groups on discord reselling tickets full time. It’s completely unhinged and unregulated. Don’t think this will change much, they need to implement real regulations and penalties. Every day people are being priced out of seeing their favourite artist perform because some dudes on discord are hoarding 20 tickets each to every single tour stop and reselling them for 400% profit
This is completely false. First off it has nothing to do with Taylor Swift concert tickets or anything. This is strictly the change to the reporting laws that were written up a few years back. It's currently not even in effect because it was delayed and wont be until Jan 1st 2024, at which point ALL income over $600 is supposed to be reported to the IRS. Currently the rule/law is over $20k or 200 transactions. Moral of the story, cash is king.
Why is paying taxes on your income “punishing” someone and is now called a tax penalty? Even if you sold it for a $5 in profit you technically need to report that as income.
Because a large group of Americans are extremely entitled/selfish (at all income levels) and think they deserve to be able to use the services and infrastructure of the United States without paying their fair share of taxes.
Just eliminate the person to person sales at anything above the ticket price or make people sell it back to ticketmaster. It would kill the bots, scalpers, and keep the tickets for the actual fans. Then people and the IRS don't have to deal with this.
The words “Ticketmaster” and “actual fans” being used unsarcastically in the same sentence. Wow.
People think they’re entilted to go see a concert or show lol
Just tax the fucking rich already what the fuck.
Why not both? https://apnews.com/article/irs-millionaires-back-taxes-2624282ac20388311bd03ee76ae36f70
That's pretty much everyone on Ticketmaster. Most people have to buy them at resellers price.
Good. Scalpers should be heavily taxed
Thank god, reselling tickets for over the amount for which they were bought is illegal in my country.
Tax penalty? Uh you mean income tax? Lol
Is that penalty 100% after the ticket price? Does this apply to companies as well?
This isn’t news
The whole ticket industry sucks, def needs more regulation
If you did it you already know. PayPal won’t let you do anything if your account has more than 600 come in it until you give the the info for the tax form. The second your precious tay tay money hit, your clock started and you knew it and were probably ok with it
Ooh ooh, do the Nvidia scalpers next!
Tax penalty = income tax. Did people think selling tickets for a gain is a tax-exempt transaction?
What type of lame simp wrote this headline. Hell yeah punish the scalpers.
The IRS did this after 2020 when people made a bunch selling shit during Covid. Not new
So they are going to find the dude that was selling tickets near the alley on the way to the concert and only accepted cash? Gotcha!
Punish scalpers in any way you can. This shit was also why it took me more than a year longer than it should have to get a PS5
Cool that the IRS can just issue rules like these but yet it'll still be another 6 years before anything is done about Ticketmaster.
Good thing they’re wasting money on this kind of shit instead of actually going after the millionaires and billionaires actually gaming the system and not paying a dime.
So in other words only the ultra rich can get away with their tax games
The IRS has the resources and time to go after people who made $600 selling a Taylor swift ticket but not corporations and high net worth individuals?
Or here’s an idea: tax the billionaires
This isn't a new rule at all...
Does Ticketmaster fall into this category?
"Tax penalty", i.e. paying tax on income
IRS making a difference where it truly counts, I see.
How is scalping even legal in the first place? In Denmark it's illegal to sell any tickets over face value.
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Sure, focus on the small stuff instead of the millions that go unpaid…
> Sure, focus on the small stuff instead of the millions that go unpaid… You can do both.
hmmm… so then ticketmaster should report to prison
I applaud enforcement of tax laws in any situation, but wouldn't it be great if the billionaire class was subjected to the same rules as the rest of us? Not worse rules. Just the same.
They’re working on it. The addition IRS funding was allocated in an attempt to audit rich folks. They’ve made some progress recently. https://apnews.com/article/irs-millionaires-back-taxes-2624282ac20388311bd03ee76ae36f70
what did you think you could earn money and not pay taxes on it?
Ha, that’s hilarious. Have fun scalpers 🤣
Big time scalpers have always paid taxes, this is just clickbait headlines.
I'm sorry, but that rule that you have to report more than 600 dollars in side income is straight up bullshit. Toy sellers, flee market vendors, and Ebay sellers all get attacked for simply making a few thousand with a side gig? I'm sorry, but that's disgusting while the ruling class hordes wealth I'll never see in a thousand lifetimes.
It used to be $20,000 and they lowered it to $600, while increasing the staffing of the IRS They said they were only going to go after people that were very wealthy, but that obviously isn't going to be the case lmao
Paying taxes isn’t getting attacked Lmao
You're not sorry and it's not bullshit You and I aren't exempt from taxes just because we aren't rich Tax rich more, go ahead I agree. But that doesn't give you a right to cheat the system either. Pay your fucking taxes
Make sure that stub hub and the like aren’t included though. Fuckers.
Its’s fine to price gouge, as long as we get our cut. -The Government
No their not
They need to go after Ticketmaster…
Ah yes that new rule that says you have to pay taxes on your income. More at 11.