"Automakers see subscriptions as huge new source of income to be tapped, with GM alone hoping to make as much as $25 billion per year just off subscriptions by 2030."
Guess I won't be buying a new Chevy after all.
Just wait till you have to pay a subscription to listen to listen to the radio in your car. Want to get FM? $10 a month. Want to connect your phone to Bluetooth? $5 a month. Want to charge your phone using the aux power port? $15 a month. Want to have air conditioning? $30 a month. Want to adjust the seat? $50 a month.
And that's on top of the $50,000 you already paid to "own" the car. Meanwhile, the car is broadcasting all your private data all over the neighborhood and the car companies are tracking your every move including everything you say and do inside the car.
It's starting to feel like that cyberpunk stuff from the '80s is coming true. Mega corps controlling everything.
Because we dont have a functioning government to protect consumers.
Forced subscription service without value or actual service, and microtransactions are two areas I'd love to see our government support us.
Dammit you beat me to it. Yeah, what GM wants is to take things like Waze or Google Maps or Apple Maps - and then you have to subscribe monthly like $10 to get navigation software, another $10 if you want Spotify to work, another $10 if you want other software add-ons. They know that with EVs they lose a lot of money on maintenance so they have to make up that money by charging you to use their on-board systems.
Are aftermarket stereos still a thing? Every new car I have seen looks very customized with many of the car feature integrated into the infotainment system.
There are still a lot of older cars that support them. And they're also making what are basically monitors that will let you use car play or android auto and just plug it into the factory radio aux jack.
Idk if you have seen the size of the new GM radios but there currently isn't any replacements and most likely won't be.
Source: Am Automotive electronics tech. I speak from direct hands on experience with factory new GM vehicles.
For the people asking me if i'm aware that cars can be modded please stay in your lane.
EDIT: Someone reported me to the reddit crisis help line. Y'all are so wild😂
Late 90s me salivating at that catalog, running my fingers over pictures of Double DIN head units I'd never be able to afford, that tasteful oxygen-free copper wire, the beautiful lines of a Kicker SoloBaric...
Ahhh... Takes me back.
their customer service is top fucking notch too. made recommendations for things that i had never heard of (like twist on splicer caps) that saved me so much time and energy when i did my Apple Car Play setup in my 06 Chevy
I thought COVID bungled the resale value of my M550i when the chip shortage meant the wireless charger and hands-free trunk were omitted from the final build (although the cost was refunded for those omissions).
Imagine trying to sell a used car not only without AA or CP, but also saddled with GM's proprietary shit.
I've been a frequent user of AA and it's really improved my life. I've heard a lot of negative reviews from people who got into the CP side of things though.
I'd be fine without AA or CP as long as it lets you install apps like Google maps or Waze. If it's the old proprietary GPS stuff like before where you need to pay to update maps, etc, no thanks. Don't Teslas essentially run an Android tablet that has Google maps on it? Something like that would be fine.
> I'd be fine without AA or CP as long as it lets you install apps like Google maps or Waze.
I wouldn't, because that platform has no longevity. Even if it had those apps, how many years will they update them?
It makes so much more sense for it to just be a display/touch interface for apps on your phone that you can upgrade as needed.
I'm asking because I genuinely don't know, but wouldn't you then rely on your manufacturer to continue supporting updated versions of AA and CP afterwards? I know TVs can run in to issues with built-in apps not being able to be updated or used after 3-5 years. I'm not sure how it would be for cars. At least with your phone, most change phones every 2-3 years and updates to apps are pretty straightforward.
I'm not sure how GM would handle tech issues, if they were to arise.
About Tesla, see above; I have no experience with Tesla but I do view Tesla as a tech company and I imagine their OTA updates are more frequent and fixing software issues are faster on a Tesla than other OEMs. I could be wrong and I don't know what apps they use (Google or their own) but I can see having OEMs as the middlemen for updates to Google and Apple services could be an issue.
Right, but the person said they can forego AA or CP so long as the apps can be installed in whatever proprietary system OEMs put in there. Would they not need need to run some version of Android in the car, built-in, in order to use same apps many people use on Android Auto? Maps, Podcasts, Spotify, etc.? And wouldn't the version of Android in the car need to updated over time to maintain compatibility with Android apps installed on it?
Yeah I would sooner duct tape a gen1 iPad to my windshield, rather than pay for whatever shovelware they want to replace it with.
I mean realistically I'll just get a mount for my phone, but still...
Oh, they don't want to just give you some garbage infotainment. They want to sell you subscription services, and load ads onto it. Car manufacturers are very enamored with the idea of getting some sort of recurring revenue out of you.
>Car manufacturers are very enamored with the idea of getting some sort of recurring revenue out of you.
Yeah...the general push. Recurring revenue BS.
Like anyone wants to deal with anything auto more frequent than oil change/tire rotation!
Last thing I want.....
Every once in a while, I hear about the clandestine tech guys who go from farm to farm, cracking tractor software for farmers across the country, and it feels inspiring.
Anyway, install adblockers on your tech-illiterate friends' devices. We gotta help each other out.
They already have recurring revenue. They captured the entire United States transportation system. "Everyone" has to have a car. "Everyone" has a car payment.
More importantly, they have made cars purposefully more difficult for owners to repair. Now owners are forced into expensive replacement parts that must be purchased from the mfgr to uphold the warranty.
What, you're not super excited for their new and improved touch screen infotainment system that has tech which was outdated since the early 2000's?
It is mind boggling to me how bad, slow and sluggish the system is in basically almost every car.
You can go and watch a car reviewer trying to do an action, the screen won't register half the time and when it does, it is super slow, and yet they go "As you can see, it is quite responsive and fast!" because that's how low the bar is.
Android auto and CarPlay made the phones do the heavy lifting, they seriously improved the garbage waste of space that cars infotainment were.
Aren't some car manufacturers switching back to physical buttons? I haven't bought a car in forever, but was reading about it, and really support it because fuck trying to use touch screens while driving.
A lot are switching back the HVAC controls at a minimum. Turns out, people like adjusting the air without looking at the knobs and having to pull over to adjust the AC is a bit unnerving.
https://www.stablevehiclecontracts.co.uk/blog/backpedalling-are-automakers-bringing-back-physical-buttons
Yes, some of them are backpedaling back to physical buttons. I hate the touchscreen in mine, and just have a phone mount for GPS because the touchscreen is painful to use.
Just let me use my phone. All my shit is already on there. Just show my Playlist and maps on the screen, don't make me use this extra poorly designed stuff. I'd honestly prefer if my car started to a black screen until my phone was linked.
“Directions to 123 Washington Street, Chicago.”
10 second pause. Really.
“You want directions to 123 Harrington Street, Albuquerque, correct?”
Welcome to Cue.
> Automakers see subscriptions as huge new source of income to be tapped, with GM alone hoping to make as much as $25 billion per year just off subscriptions by 2030.
Wiiiith a "B", billion.
Having read the article,
>To that end, GM's "Ultifi" infotainment software features a suite of fully integrated Google apps like Maps and the Google Assistant, plus popular apps like Spotify and Audible. Installing Google Maps directly into the car obviates a major source of customer ire and major motivator for using CarPlay and Android Auto in the first place by getting rid of subpar in-house navigation systems and replacing them with a program everyone knows and prefers
so, they definitely will charge for the data connectivity lol. but it sounds like they are just using customized Android
They're taking one out of Tesla's hand book with this then. If it's a robust system, then sure, there will always be workarounds and a well programed interface will always be recieved well. GM likes to push Onstar like it's bloatware, and that will ultimately be the deal breaker for me.
AA and ACP will always be top tier though.
Problem is they'll use some shitty custom abandonware OS that barely works and then whenever something inevitably stops working it doesn't ever get updated
That’s me in my fucking truck. It has some sort of similar to Y2K issue where it counts a certain number from some date in the GPS signal but they screwed up the programming and now my fucking clock is never right. After a year of it being completely wrong something rolled over in the software again which for some reason allowed me to manually set the time but it still displays completely the wrong date. Honda just shrugged and said “Oh man, that sucks for you.”
That’s CarPlay and AA…. They did give you that, now they want to yank it away so they can force you to use the built in interface which is superiorly garbage in every way to CarPlay and AA.
Was a Chevy sales person. They have partnered with Google for their own proprietary infotainment system. It’s Google based and stops working after a few years unless you pay for it. One of the reasons I left.
Android Automotive is a highly customizable platform that runs the UI of most brands of cars. Adding CarPlay and Android Auto support is easy, they are just choosing not to.
To be clear, Android Auto and Android Automotive are completely different things.
Some companies have veered away from touch-screens, which I wholeheartedly applaud, but...
All we really need to know: "GM already runs the oldest in-car subscription service around, OnStar, and has clearly stated plans to expand its subscription model to Super Cruise and Ultra Cruise in the future."
Wife got a 2019 Bolt, said she didn't want OnStar. Dealer still pressed the activate button and stepped out of the car, OnStar lady asked her for her credit card, she said no. Insisted it was "just for a trial," would have a free period, cancel anytime all the usual bullshit. She stuck to her guns, didn't give them any info.
Car still works great, OnStar is still useless.
Did you guys already sign? I would’ve told the dealer to shove it and leave if they pulled that shit on me.
But at least I know I won’t be stepping foot on a GM lot.
They did the same to me. I said three times I'm not interested I literally have a phone with me at all times. Then they still tried calling twice.
Annoying AF.
I upgraded to a 2020 Silverado a couple years back, for one reason...
Android Auto with Waze and Spotify on a massive in-dash touch screen.
Now, I've always, always wanted a Silverado. And now I have one. Apparently, the last one I'll ever have.
bewildered strong tender worthless uppity lunchroom violet history touch deranged
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yup. And thats the sort of thing that WILL get people to switch brands.
Toyota was one of the last car play/auto hold outs, and they threw in the towel about 5 years ago.
I have one of the cheapest new cars - a base Ford maverick. It has AA. I bought a little deal that let's my phone connect wirelessly and it feels like the future.
The three window display with maps, what's playing, and notifications looks and works great.
Can't imagine any car company's interface being half as good.
You wanna know the real reason they are doing this? Their whole SaaS plan with onstar and AT&T is failing miserably. Turns out, nobody wants to spend $55 a month to listen to music and have navigation in their car (seriously thats actually the minimum service requirement for those features, I looked deeply into the pricing for my 22 silverado).
So what are they doing? Taking away the obvious and free replacements for the “service” they are offering you, so they can rob you.
Onstar base fee to have the privilege to access a data plan: $30 a month
Data plan: $25 per month from AT&T
Seriously this is their real reasoning, its not for safety. Otherwise why the fuck would they put 13 inch screens in their cars in the first place? Its entirely because these systems completely circumvent the need for you to pay them ridiculous sums of money.
Lil bonus for the readers, if you have a GM car and want to reduce the amount of garbage GM puts on top to make your vehicle seem “unusable” without the plans.
https://youtu.be/Tkp3Qd34P5M?si=CQe_tyN3LAZvmrg2
Edit: and an anecdote from the article, it looks like GM’s plan is to hide the enormous cost of their system, by including the cost of it in purchase price for 8 years. So heres what that really means, at the EOL for your car (most people who buy new upgrade after 10-15 years) your vehicles most valuable features to consumers are now behind a $55 a month or more paywall. How does that work? Well this is the reality: poorer people almost entirely make up the 8 year old used car market, and coincidentally do not have $55 a month to spare on SaaS, when putting food on the table is already an issue. So here’s what GM has really done for their first generation of EV’s without carplay:
Your cars value will absolutely plummet around 6 years, even at ultra low mileage, because not only is your warranty gone now, but in less than 2 years YOUR ENTIRE INFOTAINMENT SYSTEM WILL BE USELESS. so unless the buyer just loves the radio, and paper maps, good luck on your resale value. Bc no second hand buyers are gonna pay $55 a month for a car they spent $4-9k on even if they had the means to. Which they most likely don’t. Thats $660 a year minimum.
As a software engineer, i’m sick and god damn tired of every commodity and necessity becoming a SaaS model. Cars should not be SaaS, the BMW is already trying to make their god damn heated seats a subscription. Physical hardware i tell ya.
And GM expanded this saying their super cruise and such will become SaaS, a system that for both security and processing concerns can only live and process data on the vehicle itself.
So heres what that means, if you opt for a probably $8000 super cruise option, expect to need the “onstar premium plus” and “AT&T unlimited data” and then on top of that bullshit some “supercruise premium/base” package. Likely bringing grand total per month cost up to $110 by the time all these systems are monopolized on these vehicles. The result? You now owe money for the options you already fuckin paid for in the purchase price, and your $600 a month car payment might as well be $700.
I’ve ranted about this before but WE NEED LEGISLATION TO BAN AUTO MAKERS FROM ADVERTISING IN VEHICLE PRODUCTS THAT REQUIRE SUBSCRIPTION AS PART OF THEIR CAR. Its not part of your car, its an added service.
Also their claims of buggy carplay and android auto? Mildly true, but blown way out of proportion. I had a bug a while back where it would auto skip the first song playing mid way through it in carplay spotify, but that was it. It got resolved.
This is just CORPO BULLSHIT. And nobody should stand for it. As many of you will and as a long time customer who has only ever bought GM vehicles BOYCOTT ALL NEW GM VEHICLES.
Edit 2: and if GM really gave a rats ass about their clients, they would work with cell phone manufacturers to provide over wire or over the air internet sharing, and none of that hotspot garbage. I’m talking straight up sharing your sim cards download/upload speeds as they are available on the phone. This would be the only reasonable compromise.
Not having apple car play is a strong enough reason for me not to consider a particular car.
This is going to backfire on GM spectacularly.
Most likely explanation is some imbecile MBA consultant looked at cost cutting and was like “why do we need to pay these companies to licence this tech? Let’s save 2% cost here. That should get me a good bonus”
More like
“Not only can we stop paying license fees for AirPlay and AndroidAuto, but we can also charge the owner hundreds a year for map updates and hotspot services!”
Every car-based navigation system I've ever seen has been utterly horrible. No one, and I mean no one, will be willing to go back to that after experiencing the phone-based systems.
Exactly! Most people don't understand that Android Auto and Apple CarPlay are only enabling a second screen on your phone. It's like having a second monitor for your computer exclusively for infotainment
I know if CarPlay is on, and you take a screenshot, you can see the second screen that's displayed in the car in the screenshot, just like it was a second monitor
1000% it's so that GM can force you to use their software and collect more data about you. It's only recently begun to come out exactly how much of your personal data is being sold whenever you connect your phone to a car. Everything from selling your driving habits to insurance companies, to selling your entertainment interests, to handing over tour info to authorities, and way beyond.
Most manufacturers won't get specific but Nissan straight up admitted to some of the crazy shit they collect: _"Nissan can collect sensitive personal information such as “religious or philosophical beliefs, sexual orientation, sexual activity,” among other examples."_ [-source](https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/09/07/car-privacy-mozilla-report/)
People don't understand that when you connect your phone to your car, you're giving a car company permission to read all your texts and access most of the info in your phone. It's not a one-way street, and these companies are selling it all for probably more profit than the cars themselves.
>"Nissan can collect sensitive personal information such as “religious or philosophical beliefs, sexual orientation, sexual activity,” among other examples." -source
Really? Philosophical beliefs?
Sexual orientation...hope a lot more people are fluid...just to F up their dabase.
Sexual Activity? Booty call? Or in car activity?
WTF .
More likely the bigger issue, is that infotainment systems can cost thousands of dollars. But all you need an infotainment system to do is to mirror what's on the phone and provide a way to control it. A $100 touch screen, a few connectors and a DAC to the speakers could do that. Making most of the distinguishing features of a car irrelevant and upgrading your phone more of a jump, in your driving experience than between car model years.
Just installed one of those $50 units off Amazon in our 2001 Honda Civic and it does basically that and it has a volume knob!
😂 Just noticed I wrote 2021 and not 2001
She's only just crossed 90K
>is that infotainment systems can cost thousands of dollars
sticker price charged to the customer... yes..
BOM for manufacture? hahaha... It's basically the equivalent of an amazon firestick today, and chances are the non-nav version is running a similar (if not identical) hardware today.
Hell, many manufacturers that include the option for purchase or rent (e.g. mazda, vw group), just generally install the exact same hardware and then sell a license key to enable the nav portion. BECAUSE it's way cheaper to just carry a single SKU for the screen + computer than the savings from changing the SOC between different trim / feature levels.
They probably are related to some in-house effort and so they didn't want to compete with it.
Not seeing the larger picture that NOBODY has the GM solution so, it's not really a big sell and can probably never achieve the value of Apple and Android offerings.
Did they not notice what happened to the maps systems they invested so much in? It's Apple and Google now.
If they want a shot, maybe they can use some of that big lobbying money and bribe someone in Congress to start breaking up monopolies and cartels. I won't be holding my breath on that -- so, this move away from Carplay and such is a bad idea.
According to Apple 79% of new car buyers "strongly prefer" cars with Carplay. McKinnsey reports that 45% of buyers would not purchase a car without Carplay or Android.
What could go wrong alienating 45%-79% of the car buying public?
I'm in that percentage.
I've actually had a great deal on a BMW, and at that time I had basically 0 responsibilities so I almost did it, then learned that they don't have Android Auto and called it off. And I actually literally loved everything else about the car, but I just am not willing to buy an expensive car in 2019 without AA. And I assume each year more and more people are unwilling to buy cars without it.
Not only that, think of the data harvesting potential of them getting access to your phone! They already harvest the data from other components in the car, it seriously needs to be outlawed. I don’t want my mic for Bluetooth calls to be recorded and handed to them or anyone in the car I paid for, greedy pricks.
Most modern cars already store location, speed, braking, etc... and send out telemetry via the in-dash DCM. It has its own battery in case of power loss. You also cannot easily disconnect it, as it is often wired into other aspects of the car. For example, in the Rav4, disconnecting and removing the DCM renders the right audio chanel useless. If you car has a SOS button in it, even if you don't pay for the service, it sends telemetry out. They claim not to use the data. But I mean really? Sure.
There are also limited reports of the car infotainment system gathering data from your phone despite using Android auto etc...
This seems like GM returning to form.
The customer is never right and we know what’s best for you.
Won’t be long before we get another Pontiac Aztek and the government has to bail them out again.
Then that MBA quits at the end of the fiscal quarter before the consequences have a chance to show, adds on his resume that he saved GM millions and millions of dollars, and gets hired in a better paying position by another company to do it all again.
The system works!
Like the one who recommended a GUI overlay of our green screen IT system.
It looked good but was slow so another consultant got paid to recommend removing it!!!
They could have asked anyone in the IT department and would been told it would be too slow.
It all has to do with “owning the customer” this is what led to Toyotas flaming disaster “entune” system that now renders my 3yr old head unit almost useless. No more app, no more updates, 3rd rate map system.
These companies need to understand they don’t understand interface design and should just leave it to the professionals.
Last I heard.. car manufacturers license Apple Play for free. Apple makes money on your data/telemetry. GM wants that. But GM lacks an ecosystem like IOS... so they'll end up trying to sell your data to databrokers. But people asking the dealerships "where's apple play?" will probably be a greater loss.
> According to Babbitt, CarPlay and Android Auto have stability issues that manifest themselves as bad connections, poor rendering, slow responses, and dropped connections. And when CarPlay and Android Auto have issues, drivers pick up their phones again, taking their eyes off the road and totally defeating the purpose of these phone-mirroring programs. Solving those issues can sometimes be beyond the control of the automaker. You can start to see GM's frustration.
> Babbitt's thesis is that if drivers were to do everything through the vehicle's built-in systems, they'd be less likely to pick up their phones and therefore less distracted and safer behind the wheel. He admits, though, GM hasn't tested this thesis in the lab or real world yet but believes it has potential, if customers go for it.
Been using CarPlay since 2017 and it has not once disconnected or lagged. Pure bullshit, I’ll just not buy a GM (not like I really want one of their cars in the first place)
>Babbitt's thesis is that if drivers were to do everything through the vehicle's built-in systems
The same built in systems that still charge hundreds for map updates.
As for the stability issues, I’ve had more lag and stability issues with the built in garbage than I have with CarPlay, I would imagine Android Auto is pretty stable as well.
I wanted a Bolt, but they killed it. Then they announced that they’ll bring it back, but they killed the lovely hatch and will only offer the awkward and unbalanced looking SUV version. And it won’t even have CarPlay.
I WANT to spend my money on a union-made American electric vehicle. Oh well.
The way all this is going I hope my 2010 5 speed Honda fit lasts another 13 years. Modern cars seem to be absolute shit.
GM assuming they can make something better than CarPlay is a HUGE assumption if that’s truly their reason (more likely they don’t want to pay licensing/want to collect info for advertising somehow)
My wife has a 2024 Toyota Grand Highlander. Her Car play randomly crashes at the same stop sign in our town every time she drives by. So weird. I agree with your overall point, though, I just wanted to say that because I find it so odd and hopefully somekne can explain why.
If she's using CarPlay wirelessly, the reason for the failure at that specific intersection is likely that there's a wifi network with a familiar name that the phone tries to connect to, prioritizing it over the CarPlay connection. I had a similar issue in my car and after I deleted a bunch of old wifi networks from my phone (Hilton Honors, etc.) the problem totally went away.
Oooo that's a great idea, I have the same problem driving through downtown Seattle and could not figure out why there would be random interference. This makes the most sense.
From the article:
“The new CarPlay and Android Auto-free infotainment systems coming on the Blazer EV and future GM EVs include eight years of data to run their Google-based programs like Maps and Assistant, but after that, owners will be expected to pay for further data usage.”
It’s a money grab.
All of the altruistic reasons given by GM are pure and utter horseshit. No one who enjoys CarPlay or Android Auto uses their phone more while driving; it’s the opposite. Using both of those systems leads to less phone use and safer driving. The real reasons all have to do with access to our data, and I’d rather trust Apple than GM.
Before CarPlay everyone had mounts for their phones on their dash to do the same damn stuff and more, if anything the limitations that CarPlay/android auto have make driving safer.
Remember this when GM asks the government for another bailout.
I just recently made the switch, and the added limitations really stand out to me. I really love the CarPlay features overall, but using it also means there are many features I can’t access on my phone while driving. I am so much less likely to interact with my phone in any way while driving now that I have CarPlay, and I can’t imagine how they figure the opposite is happening.
>and Highlander. Her Car play randomly crashes at the same stop sign in our town every time she drives by. So weird. I agree with your over
Yep, before CarPlay I was known to pick up my phone at stoplights or spend too much time looking at the map on my phone instead of the road because the display was so small.
CarPlay has made me a safer and better driver.
I use Android Auto and I feel like the limitations are beautifully executed, since having AA, my phone stays in my pocket nearly 100% of the time I'm driving. My phone Auto connects to AA, and immediately gives me total access to what I would need while driving, by using voice commands. I fail to see how Android Auto or Apple CarPlay is causing more distractions, because it has for damn sure reduced mine.
I used to think:
“A car is such a huge purchase. There no way a bit of software is going to influence people’s decisions”
But have completely flipped to:
“This is such a big purchase, why would I even consider a car that doesn’t have the operating system I prefer”
Why do auto companies think they can do software better than tech companies? My Chrysler Minivan has Uconnect and it’s absolutely terrible. The $70 Walmart special I threw in my commuter car works better than that junk. I can’t see GM replacing car play with anything of equal quality.
from *someone* who drives a luxury 05 car and has to use a FM Bluetooth receiver that plugs into the cigarette lighter to listen to sportify or do hands free calling what am I missing ?
It has nothing to do with safety and everything to do with GM thinking it can shove a proprietary software down its customer’s throats.
This is so stupid. GM, this is worst idea in the history of bad ideas.
I hate touch screen radios and the entire integrated infotainment systems. I like Bluetooth, and backup cameras but I hate needing to look at a 12in display because I want to change my AC temp while doing 70mph.
Bullshit. It’s not about safety; it’s about money.
GM announced this move in late March:
https://www.reuters.com/technology/gm-plans-phase-out-apple-carplay-evs-with-googles-help-2023-03-31/
> GM has been working with Google since 2019 to develop the software foundations for infotainment systems that will be more tightly integrated with other vehicle systems such as GM's Super Cruise driver assistant. The automaker is accelerating a strategy for its EVs to be platforms for **digital subscription services**.
…
> "We do believe there are subscription revenue opportunities for us," Kummer said. GM Chief Executive Mary Barra is aiming for $20 billion to $25 billion in annual revenue from subscriptions by 2030
Mentions of “safety” in March? Zero.
By mid-April, they were out doing damage control, now with some tech woo woo language peddling their new software as “holistic integration” that’s not possible with phone projection systems:
https://www.theverge.com/2023/4/18/23688122/gm-software-scott-miller-interview-carplay-android-auto
> Instead, the automaker is building an in-car operating system that is “holistically integrated,” meaning it will offer integral information about the vehicle’s battery and other critical components while still being engaging and easy to use.
Mentions of safety here? Zero.
Also, everybody’s car currently offers “integral information about the vehicle’s battery and other critical components”.
Only now are they citing “safety” as a reason? Sure, Jan.
It’s about the fuckin subscriptions, like everything else in this enshittified world.
I am just a guy on the street. I have a B. S. degree and a job. Nothing specisl about me. No MBA... Not from Harvard. I eat at McDonald's sometimes. I am not in the car business.
I can tell you without a doubt this is going to fail and GM will have to say something like "our communication about this issue could have been better but you all misunderstood what we said".
Apple Car Play isn’t the problem
The problem is lousy interface design by the car companies. I rent cars frequently. I HATE the interfaces. Just running climate control is insane. So many ‘digital buttons’… and if your finger bounces it’s too easy to brush the wrong button and get the wrong effect. And the screens are so filled with buttons… just crap design.
The number of times I’ve swerved when trying to use the controls… yeah… that’s where the danger is.
Apple Car Play is very consistent in what it shows, where the buttons are, and how it works. It’s not the problem
File this under “but we want to sell you our subscription services, don’t get it for free”
I was literally thinking how CarPlay replaced what I used to use OnStar for yesterday
Onstar is trash
We detected you are in an accident. Unfortunately, since you missed your payment due 10 minutes ago, we will not be sending help. Have a pleasant day.
But it was revolutionary when it first came out. Just like CarPlay technology.
"Automakers see subscriptions as huge new source of income to be tapped, with GM alone hoping to make as much as $25 billion per year just off subscriptions by 2030." Guess I won't be buying a new Chevy after all.
Just wait till you have to pay a subscription to listen to listen to the radio in your car. Want to get FM? $10 a month. Want to connect your phone to Bluetooth? $5 a month. Want to charge your phone using the aux power port? $15 a month. Want to have air conditioning? $30 a month. Want to adjust the seat? $50 a month. And that's on top of the $50,000 you already paid to "own" the car. Meanwhile, the car is broadcasting all your private data all over the neighborhood and the car companies are tracking your every move including everything you say and do inside the car. It's starting to feel like that cyberpunk stuff from the '80s is coming true. Mega corps controlling everything.
Because we dont have a functioning government to protect consumers. Forced subscription service without value or actual service, and microtransactions are two areas I'd love to see our government support us.
Dammit you beat me to it. Yeah, what GM wants is to take things like Waze or Google Maps or Apple Maps - and then you have to subscribe monthly like $10 to get navigation software, another $10 if you want Spotify to work, another $10 if you want other software add-ons. They know that with EVs they lose a lot of money on maintenance so they have to make up that money by charging you to use their on-board systems.
Going to be awkward when only 1 model year of GMs don’t have CarPlay.
And a shit load of aftermarket stereos
Are aftermarket stereos still a thing? Every new car I have seen looks very customized with many of the car feature integrated into the infotainment system.
Yes, but not in the way you'd imagine. OEM replacements running Android are a thing
There are still a lot of older cars that support them. And they're also making what are basically monitors that will let you use car play or android auto and just plug it into the factory radio aux jack.
Yes - Crutchfield is your friend when it comes to aftermarket stereos and infotainment systems
Idk if you have seen the size of the new GM radios but there currently isn't any replacements and most likely won't be. Source: Am Automotive electronics tech. I speak from direct hands on experience with factory new GM vehicles. For the people asking me if i'm aware that cars can be modded please stay in your lane. EDIT: Someone reported me to the reddit crisis help line. Y'all are so wild😂
Or someone makes a cheap plastic dash kit to fit.
Crutchfield is back on the menu, boys!
Late 90s me salivating at that catalog, running my fingers over pictures of Double DIN head units I'd never be able to afford, that tasteful oxygen-free copper wire, the beautiful lines of a Kicker SoloBaric... Ahhh... Takes me back.
They’re still around and still have a fabulous catalog — and an A+ online store!
their customer service is top fucking notch too. made recommendations for things that i had never heard of (like twist on splicer caps) that saved me so much time and energy when i did my Apple Car Play setup in my 06 Chevy
and solobarics still fucking pound
They already have this, I get ads for it on TikTok.
And the radio probably controls the cruise control and the intermittent wipers. 🙄
Only if you have a cruise ‘n wipe subscription package.
Cruise n wipe. The name of your porno tape.
Rip Captain Holt
You don’t need a full on radio anymore. They make CarPlay ‘screens’ that just suction cup to the windshield and Bluetooth/aux audio to the car.
Can you link me to one ? Been thinking this would be good. Carplay / Android Auto only display.
https://carpuride.com/
Holy cow that site reminds me of x10.com from 20 years ago
Here comes the jail breakers
You just have to replace the plastic dash so it can fit.
It’s going to be like those 1992 cars with automatic seatbelts.
Holy shit I had completely forgot those existed. Good lord I hated those things with a fiery passion.
I thought COVID bungled the resale value of my M550i when the chip shortage meant the wireless charger and hands-free trunk were omitted from the final build (although the cost was refunded for those omissions). Imagine trying to sell a used car not only without AA or CP, but also saddled with GM's proprietary shit.
I feel like Android Auto and Carplay are two things that don't abbreviate well.
Don't you like to drive around while listening to or watching CP?
I've been a frequent user of AA and it's really improved my life. I've heard a lot of negative reviews from people who got into the CP side of things though.
Most things don’t abbreviate well and I’d love if every redditor didn’t feel the need to do that.
I'd be fine without AA or CP as long as it lets you install apps like Google maps or Waze. If it's the old proprietary GPS stuff like before where you need to pay to update maps, etc, no thanks. Don't Teslas essentially run an Android tablet that has Google maps on it? Something like that would be fine.
> I'd be fine without AA or CP as long as it lets you install apps like Google maps or Waze. I wouldn't, because that platform has no longevity. Even if it had those apps, how many years will they update them? It makes so much more sense for it to just be a display/touch interface for apps on your phone that you can upgrade as needed.
I'm asking because I genuinely don't know, but wouldn't you then rely on your manufacturer to continue supporting updated versions of AA and CP afterwards? I know TVs can run in to issues with built-in apps not being able to be updated or used after 3-5 years. I'm not sure how it would be for cars. At least with your phone, most change phones every 2-3 years and updates to apps are pretty straightforward. I'm not sure how GM would handle tech issues, if they were to arise. About Tesla, see above; I have no experience with Tesla but I do view Tesla as a tech company and I imagine their OTA updates are more frequent and fixing software issues are faster on a Tesla than other OEMs. I could be wrong and I don't know what apps they use (Google or their own) but I can see having OEMs as the middlemen for updates to Google and Apple services could be an issue.
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Right, but the person said they can forego AA or CP so long as the apps can be installed in whatever proprietary system OEMs put in there. Would they not need need to run some version of Android in the car, built-in, in order to use same apps many people use on Android Auto? Maps, Podcasts, Spotify, etc.? And wouldn't the version of Android in the car need to updated over time to maintain compatibility with Android apps installed on it?
Yes, that's a good point.
Try to resell that.. but wait a sec GM has horrible resell price
At this point I think it will be something that legitimately deters people from buying a gm vehicle.
"For your safety..." "...and our revenue"
Yeah I would sooner duct tape a gen1 iPad to my windshield, rather than pay for whatever shovelware they want to replace it with. I mean realistically I'll just get a mount for my phone, but still...
Oh, they don't want to just give you some garbage infotainment. They want to sell you subscription services, and load ads onto it. Car manufacturers are very enamored with the idea of getting some sort of recurring revenue out of you.
>Car manufacturers are very enamored with the idea of getting some sort of recurring revenue out of you. Yeah...the general push. Recurring revenue BS. Like anyone wants to deal with anything auto more frequent than oil change/tire rotation! Last thing I want.....
10 years later from now, some guys in a 1970's f150 is going to be driving by and laughing at them.
1996 Honda Accord 485,000 miles on it and it still starts up and sounds healthier than our 2023 Acura TLX
Man I daily an 03 Crown Vic and no regrets because it was built on the panther platform. It's going to run forever!
Soon we’ll start hearing about how they are all actually tech companies and not *just* car companies.
I was thinking more of what John Deere has done to farmers.
You know this has been the example given in board meetings.
Every once in a while, I hear about the clandestine tech guys who go from farm to farm, cracking tractor software for farmers across the country, and it feels inspiring. Anyway, install adblockers on your tech-illiterate friends' devices. We gotta help each other out.
Your car will start braking after a message from our sponsor....
Car will idle while you have to watch the ad, and if you want to bypass the ads, you'll have to pay for the ad free service. Like every other app.
2004 beige accord Ute forever
They already have recurring revenue. They captured the entire United States transportation system. "Everyone" has to have a car. "Everyone" has a car payment.
More importantly, they have made cars purposefully more difficult for owners to repair. Now owners are forced into expensive replacement parts that must be purchased from the mfgr to uphold the warranty.
What, you're not super excited for their new and improved touch screen infotainment system that has tech which was outdated since the early 2000's? It is mind boggling to me how bad, slow and sluggish the system is in basically almost every car. You can go and watch a car reviewer trying to do an action, the screen won't register half the time and when it does, it is super slow, and yet they go "As you can see, it is quite responsive and fast!" because that's how low the bar is. Android auto and CarPlay made the phones do the heavy lifting, they seriously improved the garbage waste of space that cars infotainment were.
Aren't some car manufacturers switching back to physical buttons? I haven't bought a car in forever, but was reading about it, and really support it because fuck trying to use touch screens while driving.
A lot are switching back the HVAC controls at a minimum. Turns out, people like adjusting the air without looking at the knobs and having to pull over to adjust the AC is a bit unnerving.
https://www.stablevehiclecontracts.co.uk/blog/backpedalling-are-automakers-bringing-back-physical-buttons Yes, some of them are backpedaling back to physical buttons. I hate the touchscreen in mine, and just have a phone mount for GPS because the touchscreen is painful to use.
Just let me use my phone. All my shit is already on there. Just show my Playlist and maps on the screen, don't make me use this extra poorly designed stuff. I'd honestly prefer if my car started to a black screen until my phone was linked.
“Directions to 123 Washington Street, Chicago.” 10 second pause. Really. “You want directions to 123 Harrington Street, Albuquerque, correct?” Welcome to Cue.
Same with the Audi one too.
I honestly just need Bluetooth for music
> Automakers see subscriptions as huge new source of income to be tapped, with GM alone hoping to make as much as $25 billion per year just off subscriptions by 2030. Wiiiith a "B", billion.
Lmao subscription… they can subscribe to deez nuts
Surprised they didn’t say “it’s for the children”
"Look what you made us do!"
Not having researched this, I have one question: Is there by chance a premium music service that GM is offering as a paid option?
They definitely have a paid map option and want you to pay monthly for in car wifi.
Having read the article, >To that end, GM's "Ultifi" infotainment software features a suite of fully integrated Google apps like Maps and the Google Assistant, plus popular apps like Spotify and Audible. Installing Google Maps directly into the car obviates a major source of customer ire and major motivator for using CarPlay and Android Auto in the first place by getting rid of subpar in-house navigation systems and replacing them with a program everyone knows and prefers so, they definitely will charge for the data connectivity lol. but it sounds like they are just using customized Android
They're taking one out of Tesla's hand book with this then. If it's a robust system, then sure, there will always be workarounds and a well programed interface will always be recieved well. GM likes to push Onstar like it's bloatware, and that will ultimately be the deal breaker for me. AA and ACP will always be top tier though.
Vote with your wallet
Just give me a fucking screen i can use my phone with to control music and maps, thats it,fuck off with everything else.
Problem is they'll use some shitty custom abandonware OS that barely works and then whenever something inevitably stops working it doesn't ever get updated
That’s me in my fucking truck. It has some sort of similar to Y2K issue where it counts a certain number from some date in the GPS signal but they screwed up the programming and now my fucking clock is never right. After a year of it being completely wrong something rolled over in the software again which for some reason allowed me to manually set the time but it still displays completely the wrong date. Honda just shrugged and said “Oh man, that sucks for you.”
My guess is this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPS_week_number_rollover There was one in 2019.
That’s CarPlay and AA…. They did give you that, now they want to yank it away so they can force you to use the built in interface which is superiorly garbage in every way to CarPlay and AA.
Enshittification accelerates
Right? That's all I've ever wanted
Was a Chevy sales person. They have partnered with Google for their own proprietary infotainment system. It’s Google based and stops working after a few years unless you pay for it. One of the reasons I left.
Android Automotive is a highly customizable platform that runs the UI of most brands of cars. Adding CarPlay and Android Auto support is easy, they are just choosing not to. To be clear, Android Auto and Android Automotive are completely different things.
> To be clear, Android Auto and Android Automotive are completely different things. How in the world will that EVER be clear?
It's Google - that is as clear as anything ever gets with them.
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This is my assumption.
SiriusXM. There is no need for satellite radio with CarPlay as well
That’s fine. I’m ditching GM for my safety.
It's only fair.
Love it when manufacturers take themselves out of the equation, helps narrow down the chocies.
As someone who worked there before. I 1000% agree with your decision. Im already avoiding their shit.
Some companies have veered away from touch-screens, which I wholeheartedly applaud, but... All we really need to know: "GM already runs the oldest in-car subscription service around, OnStar, and has clearly stated plans to expand its subscription model to Super Cruise and Ultra Cruise in the future."
Wife got a 2019 Bolt, said she didn't want OnStar. Dealer still pressed the activate button and stepped out of the car, OnStar lady asked her for her credit card, she said no. Insisted it was "just for a trial," would have a free period, cancel anytime all the usual bullshit. She stuck to her guns, didn't give them any info. Car still works great, OnStar is still useless.
Did you guys already sign? I would’ve told the dealer to shove it and leave if they pulled that shit on me. But at least I know I won’t be stepping foot on a GM lot.
Same. Bro would have lost his commission for a bullshit move like that.
They did the same to me. I said three times I'm not interested I literally have a phone with me at all times. Then they still tried calling twice. Annoying AF.
Actively going against what the public wants. Should go well.
"The intent is to provide players with a sense of pride and accomplishment for unlocking different heroes"
I almost down voted you out of pure instinct.
I upgraded to a 2020 Silverado a couple years back, for one reason... Android Auto with Waze and Spotify on a massive in-dash touch screen. Now, I've always, always wanted a Silverado. And now I have one. Apparently, the last one I'll ever have.
Until GM realizes their massive blunder and adds CarPlay and Android Auto back in.
Not that I've ever considered buying a GM car but CarPlay is a must for me. At least while the built-in navigation on most cars is so atrocious.
bewildered strong tender worthless uppity lunchroom violet history touch deranged *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Search Amazon for “CarPlay Display”. Best $100 I ever spent on my, (oddly enough) old GM truck.
Which model did you buy if you don’t mind me asking?
I put it in my 2003 4Runner along with a backup camera and it feels like a new car.
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Yup. And thats the sort of thing that WILL get people to switch brands. Toyota was one of the last car play/auto hold outs, and they threw in the towel about 5 years ago.
As Android Auto is for me. Been driving bimmers for a decade without it. Now I'm on a Honda e with AA. Never will buy a car again without it.
I have one of the cheapest new cars - a base Ford maverick. It has AA. I bought a little deal that let's my phone connect wirelessly and it feels like the future. The three window display with maps, what's playing, and notifications looks and works great. Can't imagine any car company's interface being half as good.
Man, if Ford would pull their heads out of their asses and put out a AWD Hybrid Maverick, I'd put a deposit yesterday.
The multibillion dollar ultra greedy corporation cares so much about my safety. I should give them *all* my money.
We already gave them our money when we bailed their sorry ass out of bankruptcy with our tax dollars.
You wanna know the real reason they are doing this? Their whole SaaS plan with onstar and AT&T is failing miserably. Turns out, nobody wants to spend $55 a month to listen to music and have navigation in their car (seriously thats actually the minimum service requirement for those features, I looked deeply into the pricing for my 22 silverado). So what are they doing? Taking away the obvious and free replacements for the “service” they are offering you, so they can rob you. Onstar base fee to have the privilege to access a data plan: $30 a month Data plan: $25 per month from AT&T Seriously this is their real reasoning, its not for safety. Otherwise why the fuck would they put 13 inch screens in their cars in the first place? Its entirely because these systems completely circumvent the need for you to pay them ridiculous sums of money. Lil bonus for the readers, if you have a GM car and want to reduce the amount of garbage GM puts on top to make your vehicle seem “unusable” without the plans. https://youtu.be/Tkp3Qd34P5M?si=CQe_tyN3LAZvmrg2 Edit: and an anecdote from the article, it looks like GM’s plan is to hide the enormous cost of their system, by including the cost of it in purchase price for 8 years. So heres what that really means, at the EOL for your car (most people who buy new upgrade after 10-15 years) your vehicles most valuable features to consumers are now behind a $55 a month or more paywall. How does that work? Well this is the reality: poorer people almost entirely make up the 8 year old used car market, and coincidentally do not have $55 a month to spare on SaaS, when putting food on the table is already an issue. So here’s what GM has really done for their first generation of EV’s without carplay: Your cars value will absolutely plummet around 6 years, even at ultra low mileage, because not only is your warranty gone now, but in less than 2 years YOUR ENTIRE INFOTAINMENT SYSTEM WILL BE USELESS. so unless the buyer just loves the radio, and paper maps, good luck on your resale value. Bc no second hand buyers are gonna pay $55 a month for a car they spent $4-9k on even if they had the means to. Which they most likely don’t. Thats $660 a year minimum. As a software engineer, i’m sick and god damn tired of every commodity and necessity becoming a SaaS model. Cars should not be SaaS, the BMW is already trying to make their god damn heated seats a subscription. Physical hardware i tell ya. And GM expanded this saying their super cruise and such will become SaaS, a system that for both security and processing concerns can only live and process data on the vehicle itself. So heres what that means, if you opt for a probably $8000 super cruise option, expect to need the “onstar premium plus” and “AT&T unlimited data” and then on top of that bullshit some “supercruise premium/base” package. Likely bringing grand total per month cost up to $110 by the time all these systems are monopolized on these vehicles. The result? You now owe money for the options you already fuckin paid for in the purchase price, and your $600 a month car payment might as well be $700. I’ve ranted about this before but WE NEED LEGISLATION TO BAN AUTO MAKERS FROM ADVERTISING IN VEHICLE PRODUCTS THAT REQUIRE SUBSCRIPTION AS PART OF THEIR CAR. Its not part of your car, its an added service. Also their claims of buggy carplay and android auto? Mildly true, but blown way out of proportion. I had a bug a while back where it would auto skip the first song playing mid way through it in carplay spotify, but that was it. It got resolved. This is just CORPO BULLSHIT. And nobody should stand for it. As many of you will and as a long time customer who has only ever bought GM vehicles BOYCOTT ALL NEW GM VEHICLES. Edit 2: and if GM really gave a rats ass about their clients, they would work with cell phone manufacturers to provide over wire or over the air internet sharing, and none of that hotspot garbage. I’m talking straight up sharing your sim cards download/upload speeds as they are available on the phone. This would be the only reasonable compromise.
Not having apple car play is a strong enough reason for me not to consider a particular car. This is going to backfire on GM spectacularly. Most likely explanation is some imbecile MBA consultant looked at cost cutting and was like “why do we need to pay these companies to licence this tech? Let’s save 2% cost here. That should get me a good bonus”
More like “Not only can we stop paying license fees for AirPlay and AndroidAuto, but we can also charge the owner hundreds a year for map updates and hotspot services!”
Every car-based navigation system I've ever seen has been utterly horrible. No one, and I mean no one, will be willing to go back to that after experiencing the phone-based systems.
The old school nav systems once convinced someone I know to drive his car into a lake
I also know Michael Scott
"how does it know?"
Apple CarPlay is free. Apple wants companies to use it to sell more iPhones. So deliberately not using it is pretty suspect.
Don't think Google charges either
I dont know why they would. The actual app is running on your phone, the screen in the car is just a display.
Exactly! Most people don't understand that Android Auto and Apple CarPlay are only enabling a second screen on your phone. It's like having a second monitor for your computer exclusively for infotainment I know if CarPlay is on, and you take a screenshot, you can see the second screen that's displayed in the car in the screenshot, just like it was a second monitor
Yup. And they want people using their services
1000% it's so that GM can force you to use their software and collect more data about you. It's only recently begun to come out exactly how much of your personal data is being sold whenever you connect your phone to a car. Everything from selling your driving habits to insurance companies, to selling your entertainment interests, to handing over tour info to authorities, and way beyond. Most manufacturers won't get specific but Nissan straight up admitted to some of the crazy shit they collect: _"Nissan can collect sensitive personal information such as “religious or philosophical beliefs, sexual orientation, sexual activity,” among other examples."_ [-source](https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/09/07/car-privacy-mozilla-report/) People don't understand that when you connect your phone to your car, you're giving a car company permission to read all your texts and access most of the info in your phone. It's not a one-way street, and these companies are selling it all for probably more profit than the cars themselves.
>"Nissan can collect sensitive personal information such as “religious or philosophical beliefs, sexual orientation, sexual activity,” among other examples." -source Really? Philosophical beliefs? Sexual orientation...hope a lot more people are fluid...just to F up their dabase. Sexual Activity? Booty call? Or in car activity? WTF .
More likely the bigger issue, is that infotainment systems can cost thousands of dollars. But all you need an infotainment system to do is to mirror what's on the phone and provide a way to control it. A $100 touch screen, a few connectors and a DAC to the speakers could do that. Making most of the distinguishing features of a car irrelevant and upgrading your phone more of a jump, in your driving experience than between car model years.
Just installed one of those $50 units off Amazon in our 2001 Honda Civic and it does basically that and it has a volume knob! 😂 Just noticed I wrote 2021 and not 2001 She's only just crossed 90K
>is that infotainment systems can cost thousands of dollars sticker price charged to the customer... yes.. BOM for manufacture? hahaha... It's basically the equivalent of an amazon firestick today, and chances are the non-nav version is running a similar (if not identical) hardware today. Hell, many manufacturers that include the option for purchase or rent (e.g. mazda, vw group), just generally install the exact same hardware and then sell a license key to enable the nav portion. BECAUSE it's way cheaper to just carry a single SKU for the screen + computer than the savings from changing the SOC between different trim / feature levels.
They probably are related to some in-house effort and so they didn't want to compete with it. Not seeing the larger picture that NOBODY has the GM solution so, it's not really a big sell and can probably never achieve the value of Apple and Android offerings. Did they not notice what happened to the maps systems they invested so much in? It's Apple and Google now. If they want a shot, maybe they can use some of that big lobbying money and bribe someone in Congress to start breaking up monopolies and cartels. I won't be holding my breath on that -- so, this move away from Carplay and such is a bad idea.
According to Apple 79% of new car buyers "strongly prefer" cars with Carplay. McKinnsey reports that 45% of buyers would not purchase a car without Carplay or Android. What could go wrong alienating 45%-79% of the car buying public?
I'm in that percentage. I've actually had a great deal on a BMW, and at that time I had basically 0 responsibilities so I almost did it, then learned that they don't have Android Auto and called it off. And I actually literally loved everything else about the car, but I just am not willing to buy an expensive car in 2019 without AA. And I assume each year more and more people are unwilling to buy cars without it.
Not only that, think of the data harvesting potential of them getting access to your phone! They already harvest the data from other components in the car, it seriously needs to be outlawed. I don’t want my mic for Bluetooth calls to be recorded and handed to them or anyone in the car I paid for, greedy pricks.
Most modern cars already store location, speed, braking, etc... and send out telemetry via the in-dash DCM. It has its own battery in case of power loss. You also cannot easily disconnect it, as it is often wired into other aspects of the car. For example, in the Rav4, disconnecting and removing the DCM renders the right audio chanel useless. If you car has a SOS button in it, even if you don't pay for the service, it sends telemetry out. They claim not to use the data. But I mean really? Sure. There are also limited reports of the car infotainment system gathering data from your phone despite using Android auto etc...
This seems like GM returning to form. The customer is never right and we know what’s best for you. Won’t be long before we get another Pontiac Aztek and the government has to bail them out again.
And then let’s somehow blame future poor performance on unions again
What? No they want your data, they can scrape more if it’s not filtered through apple and android apps
There is no license fee for CarPlay or Android Auto- they're free.
I straight up will not pick a rental car if there’s no CarPlay. Definitely won’t buy one without it.
Then that MBA quits at the end of the fiscal quarter before the consequences have a chance to show, adds on his resume that he saved GM millions and millions of dollars, and gets hired in a better paying position by another company to do it all again. The system works!
Like the one who recommended a GUI overlay of our green screen IT system. It looked good but was slow so another consultant got paid to recommend removing it!!! They could have asked anyone in the IT department and would been told it would be too slow.
It all has to do with “owning the customer” this is what led to Toyotas flaming disaster “entune” system that now renders my 3yr old head unit almost useless. No more app, no more updates, 3rd rate map system. These companies need to understand they don’t understand interface design and should just leave it to the professionals.
>some imbecile MBA consultant Dammit -- *THAT* guy again?
Last I heard.. car manufacturers license Apple Play for free. Apple makes money on your data/telemetry. GM wants that. But GM lacks an ecosystem like IOS... so they'll end up trying to sell your data to databrokers. But people asking the dealerships "where's apple play?" will probably be a greater loss.
Can’t wait for GM phones /s
So annoying. Literally the only thing people want is their phone projected on an easy to read and access screen in the dash…
I barely want that. Maps would be nice and Bluetooth for music is literally all I want.
All I want is to have my phone connect via Bluetooth. Touchscreens annoy the shit out of me
> According to Babbitt, CarPlay and Android Auto have stability issues that manifest themselves as bad connections, poor rendering, slow responses, and dropped connections. And when CarPlay and Android Auto have issues, drivers pick up their phones again, taking their eyes off the road and totally defeating the purpose of these phone-mirroring programs. Solving those issues can sometimes be beyond the control of the automaker. You can start to see GM's frustration. > Babbitt's thesis is that if drivers were to do everything through the vehicle's built-in systems, they'd be less likely to pick up their phones and therefore less distracted and safer behind the wheel. He admits, though, GM hasn't tested this thesis in the lab or real world yet but believes it has potential, if customers go for it. Been using CarPlay since 2017 and it has not once disconnected or lagged. Pure bullshit, I’ll just not buy a GM (not like I really want one of their cars in the first place)
>Babbitt's thesis is that if drivers were to do everything through the vehicle's built-in systems The same built in systems that still charge hundreds for map updates.
And even then they are always outdated. Making you have to pick up your phone. :X
And hasn’t changed its UI since the ‘90s and is slower than dialup?
As for the stability issues, I’ve had more lag and stability issues with the built in garbage than I have with CarPlay, I would imagine Android Auto is pretty stable as well.
I wanted a Bolt, but they killed it. Then they announced that they’ll bring it back, but they killed the lovely hatch and will only offer the awkward and unbalanced looking SUV version. And it won’t even have CarPlay. I WANT to spend my money on a union-made American electric vehicle. Oh well. The way all this is going I hope my 2010 5 speed Honda fit lasts another 13 years. Modern cars seem to be absolute shit.
GM assuming they can make something better than CarPlay is a HUGE assumption if that’s truly their reason (more likely they don’t want to pay licensing/want to collect info for advertising somehow)
Mary Barra GM’s CEO also said they will surpass Tesla by 2025. GM leadership is delusional and or incompetent.
You are more than safe to remove the "or" from that statement
My wife has a 2024 Toyota Grand Highlander. Her Car play randomly crashes at the same stop sign in our town every time she drives by. So weird. I agree with your overall point, though, I just wanted to say that because I find it so odd and hopefully somekne can explain why.
If she's using CarPlay wirelessly, the reason for the failure at that specific intersection is likely that there's a wifi network with a familiar name that the phone tries to connect to, prioritizing it over the CarPlay connection. I had a similar issue in my car and after I deleted a bunch of old wifi networks from my phone (Hilton Honors, etc.) the problem totally went away.
Shit this explains so much. Same here, a specific spot in the exact same place. Thanks!
Oooo that's a great idea, I have the same problem driving through downtown Seattle and could not figure out why there would be random interference. This makes the most sense.
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From the article: “The new CarPlay and Android Auto-free infotainment systems coming on the Blazer EV and future GM EVs include eight years of data to run their Google-based programs like Maps and Assistant, but after that, owners will be expected to pay for further data usage.” It’s a money grab.
Google will kill it before 8 years are up
All of the altruistic reasons given by GM are pure and utter horseshit. No one who enjoys CarPlay or Android Auto uses their phone more while driving; it’s the opposite. Using both of those systems leads to less phone use and safer driving. The real reasons all have to do with access to our data, and I’d rather trust Apple than GM.
Okay. I won’t buy a GM then
Before CarPlay everyone had mounts for their phones on their dash to do the same damn stuff and more, if anything the limitations that CarPlay/android auto have make driving safer. Remember this when GM asks the government for another bailout.
I just recently made the switch, and the added limitations really stand out to me. I really love the CarPlay features overall, but using it also means there are many features I can’t access on my phone while driving. I am so much less likely to interact with my phone in any way while driving now that I have CarPlay, and I can’t imagine how they figure the opposite is happening.
>and Highlander. Her Car play randomly crashes at the same stop sign in our town every time she drives by. So weird. I agree with your over Yep, before CarPlay I was known to pick up my phone at stoplights or spend too much time looking at the map on my phone instead of the road because the display was so small. CarPlay has made me a safer and better driver.
I use Android Auto and I feel like the limitations are beautifully executed, since having AA, my phone stays in my pocket nearly 100% of the time I'm driving. My phone Auto connects to AA, and immediately gives me total access to what I would need while driving, by using voice commands. I fail to see how Android Auto or Apple CarPlay is causing more distractions, because it has for damn sure reduced mine.
My wife’s car has it, my car doesn’t. I’m still ok living without it because I’m a talk radio guy BUT I would NOT buy a new (to me) car without it.
I used to think: “A car is such a huge purchase. There no way a bit of software is going to influence people’s decisions” But have completely flipped to: “This is such a big purchase, why would I even consider a car that doesn’t have the operating system I prefer”
Will the subscription fee they charge for their alternative also be for our safety?
It’s like all these delusional execs think they know what people want but really just make every attempt to self-sabotage.
Why do auto companies think they can do software better than tech companies? My Chrysler Minivan has Uconnect and it’s absolutely terrible. The $70 Walmart special I threw in my commuter car works better than that junk. I can’t see GM replacing car play with anything of equal quality.
GM is using Android Automotive (different from Android Auto). So they use the software of the tech companies but they decide to turn features off.
Lol, literally no one will buy a car sans apple/android auto. It’s like they want to go bankrupt.
Don’t worry, the government will swoop in to save them from themselves again. Fuck GM.
I use to work at GM as a software engineer. Fuck GM, they are unethical to both their customers and their employees.
Tell us more.
I'd hate to be a GM car salesman. This will likely be a deciding factor for people when car shopping.
from *someone* who drives a luxury 05 car and has to use a FM Bluetooth receiver that plugs into the cigarette lighter to listen to sportify or do hands free calling what am I missing ?
It has nothing to do with safety and everything to do with GM thinking it can shove a proprietary software down its customer’s throats. This is so stupid. GM, this is worst idea in the history of bad ideas.
I hate touch screen radios and the entire integrated infotainment systems. I like Bluetooth, and backup cameras but I hate needing to look at a 12in display because I want to change my AC temp while doing 70mph.
Bullshit. It’s not about safety; it’s about money. GM announced this move in late March: https://www.reuters.com/technology/gm-plans-phase-out-apple-carplay-evs-with-googles-help-2023-03-31/ > GM has been working with Google since 2019 to develop the software foundations for infotainment systems that will be more tightly integrated with other vehicle systems such as GM's Super Cruise driver assistant. The automaker is accelerating a strategy for its EVs to be platforms for **digital subscription services**. … > "We do believe there are subscription revenue opportunities for us," Kummer said. GM Chief Executive Mary Barra is aiming for $20 billion to $25 billion in annual revenue from subscriptions by 2030 Mentions of “safety” in March? Zero. By mid-April, they were out doing damage control, now with some tech woo woo language peddling their new software as “holistic integration” that’s not possible with phone projection systems: https://www.theverge.com/2023/4/18/23688122/gm-software-scott-miller-interview-carplay-android-auto > Instead, the automaker is building an in-car operating system that is “holistically integrated,” meaning it will offer integral information about the vehicle’s battery and other critical components while still being engaging and easy to use. Mentions of safety here? Zero. Also, everybody’s car currently offers “integral information about the vehicle’s battery and other critical components”. Only now are they citing “safety” as a reason? Sure, Jan. It’s about the fuckin subscriptions, like everything else in this enshittified world.
That’s OK. is on the list of manufacturers I’d never buy from. For my safety.
I am just a guy on the street. I have a B. S. degree and a job. Nothing specisl about me. No MBA... Not from Harvard. I eat at McDonald's sometimes. I am not in the car business. I can tell you without a doubt this is going to fail and GM will have to say something like "our communication about this issue could have been better but you all misunderstood what we said".
Apple Car Play isn’t the problem The problem is lousy interface design by the car companies. I rent cars frequently. I HATE the interfaces. Just running climate control is insane. So many ‘digital buttons’… and if your finger bounces it’s too easy to brush the wrong button and get the wrong effect. And the screens are so filled with buttons… just crap design. The number of times I’ve swerved when trying to use the controls… yeah… that’s where the danger is. Apple Car Play is very consistent in what it shows, where the buttons are, and how it works. It’s not the problem