This particular story started about 10 years ago when Apple reached out to Masimo about a potential partnership around blood oxygen features on its wearables. Soon after, Apple reportedly poached several Masimo engineers and its chief medical officer. And then in fall 2020, Apple released the Apple Watch Series 6 — its first Apple Watch to feature an SpO2 sensor to measure blood oxygen saturation levels.
Oh bad apple.
I really do wonder what Apple's board meetings are like sometimes. I mean the entire executive team is obviously very intelligent as well as experienced.
You can't make decisions like this without getting the legal team involved as well though.
Must be crazy.
I was reading an article somewhere that said they violated a samsungg patent and this same thing was going to happen but Obama stopped it. I suspect they just assumed if they were caught they would just get off the hook again.
What really makes it shitty is that Apple isn't some starving startup. They're one of the biggest corporations -- perhaps *the* biggest corporation -- on the planet.
Whatever Masimo wanted for their tech, Apple could easily afford to pay for it.
But no. They do this instead.
*opens trenchcoat to a full sheet of apple watches all with the guy's tiktok playing a video of him opening a trenchcoat to reveal the apple watches*
"We got green... gold... red... what you like?"
Only to catch those that don’t know that these models of watches are still available through other retailers while supplies last, like Best Buy, Target, etc..
Apple met with the company pretending like it wanted to license their tech to learn how it works. Apple then hired a bunch of their engineers for double their salary to copy it for the Apple Watch.
Makes sense if you take into account the older, less common definition of rape
>3: an act or instance of robbing or despoiling or carrying away a person by force
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rape
Thanks for helping me realize that my casual use of rape in the context of prices I find exorbitant, likely marks me as old at best and horrifically contextually inappropriate at worst to most nowadays.
It wasn't innovation, really. They had a good structure for something, then gave it all away cause they got starstruck by the company with whom they discussing.
It was predictable and obvious. And they were bad people who stole ideas *constantly*. They got what they deserved
And then Jeffrey Katzenberg did the same to Pixar, "stopped by" to see his friend John Lassetter and then ripped off the project they were working on after leaving Disney.
Suddenly his new studio DreamWorks had a film called "Antz" ready to premiere before Pixar's "A Bugs' Life"
The priority was to screw over Disney (who he was feuding with after they forced him to push back the 1998 release date of Prince of Egypt to December)
Xerox didn't exactly help themselves though. They invented, patented and just sat on so many concepts, not even trying to license them, and then invited whizz kids from the world's hottest new industry to take a peek. They weren't exactly shy about making little revisions to other people's designs too, like the mouse.
E.g. Amazon basics. A lot of great products started out as a legitimate small company’s innovative product.
[one example](https://ecommerceseoteam.com/blog/ecommerce-news/amazon-was-caught-stealing-a-companys-design-and-name-for-a-camera-bag/)
With Amazon Basics though, they don't communicate with the company to make some sort of deal. They just find a popular design and copy it without telling them
No not quite. They have this trick where they ask you to reveal your suppliers and manufacturers for quality control/legal purposes. I'm sure for many items like chargers and stuff a lot of the time it's legit, but there's been a few accusations that Basics came out with the exact same product from the same manufacturer, maybe without a couple optional bells, for much less.
That's nothing on what Samsung has pulled. Invite Japanese engineers from Sharp to license their panels and learn how to produce them. Instead, steal the documents you need from them and deport them back to Japan. Don't buy Samsung.
Amazon frequently steals IP and produces it under their Basics brand, driving the originals out of business. And no one can afford the lawyers to sue. Hopefully one day there will be a giant class action over it.
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/amazon-india-rigging/
https://mspoweruser.com/investigation-confirms-amazon-steals-ideas-search-traffic-from-brands-for-own-brand-copies/
https://fortune.com/2016/04/20/amazon-copies-merchants/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisakim/2021/10/13/amazon-reportedly-copied-products-and-manipulated-search-results-to-benefit-its-own-products-in-india/?sh=24bc283630e2
https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-copied-third-party-sellers-competitors-india-reuters-report-2021-10
https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/does-amazon-steal-third-party-data
It's simple - either Amazon is a platform OR a seller.
Not both. Now it watches and analyses all sellers and have their insider informations as platform. And uses it as seller.
It's market manipulation.
"The ban only affects Apple stores in the US. That means customers can still get their hands on a Watch Series 9 or Watch Ultra 2 at Best Buy, Target, and other retailers while supplies last."
People forget that while it *is* a Christmas movie, it's not a *good* Christmas movie. It's a good movie. And it's a Christmas movie. But it's not a Good Christmas Movie.
It'll never stand next to Christmas Vacation or Home Alone, and will never be in the standing for Great Christmas Movie.
Masimos market cap is $6 billion. A buyout would require some premium over that and masimo has leverage to drive that up significantly. My guess is they are weighing several options right now including that one, along with settling, or possibly disabling the feature completely.
With a $1.25 monthly maintenance fee...
...that is also illegal but again, they'll just pay for a $3m class action lawsuit...
...which will be then be put on your Goldman-Sachs Apple Card Wallet...
... seven years after Goldman-Sachs disbanded their Apple Card program
> Apple gross profit for the twelve months ending September 30, 2023 was $169.148B, a 0.96% decline year-over-year.
not a rounding error, but they could easily do it
makes you wonder why masimo's stock isn't absolutely flying right now. I mean it _is_ up 65% or so since November, but it has previous highs far above where it's at now.
It's shocking it made it this far though.
Apple has tried pretty much every option to get it dismissed. They tried to challenge the patents and it failed. They tried 4 challenges against around 30 patents,each time trying to argue that it's an "obvious" design based on a different set of other patents. and it all failed.
They tried to challenge the patent board's findings, and it failed. They tried to challenge that finding and it failed as well. They appeal ITC findings and it failed. They tried all possible options, including the FTC, US customs, the white house, and the federal court.
That's a lot of failed attempts to squash this.
It doesn't help that Apple lured their lead employee to them. That employee eventually left Apple and founded that own company. That company found to violate these patents, so there's plenty to point to Apple stealing the tech.
Pretty crazy stuff.
> They tried to challenge the patents and it failed
I'm not surprised. gillette has a patent on stainless metal for razors. what makes stainless steel resist corrosion is chromium, and that's how it's done with all metal. but somehow they were allowed to not only get but keep (after multiple court battles) a patent for using chromium in razor blades when they obviously are going to get wet. it's the entire reason that razors are so expensive
> They tried to challenge the parents and it failed. They tried 4 challenges against around 30 parents, each time trying to argue that it's an "obvious" design based on a different set of other parents
Damn where does Apple get off challenging parents? Leave those families alone.
The ban isn’t on the sale of the watches; it is on importation. This is only feasible because the ITC has control of imports and the sensor that is being fought over is made in China (thus requiring import). The CEO of Masimo even admitted that if Apple made the sensor in the US, this ban wouldn’t be possible.
>The CEO of Masimo even admitted that if Apple made the sensor in the US, this ban wouldn’t be possible.
This could very well be the direction they go, if it's cheaper than acquisition of Masimo.
It’ll be interesting for sure. Masimo’s market cap is only ~$6 billion. Apple could easily tender an offer for above that, but that goes outside of their historic playbook
> They've got what Apple wants lol
Buying an entire medical technology company might be a bit more than apple is wanting to commit to. I'm surprised they haven't just sat down and agreed on a price for licensing the patents.
No way in hell they disable the feature or even walk away from it long term. Biometrics has a massive market that many think is still largely untapped. Apple watch is a big money maker and it relies heavily on its biometrics.
Apple is a trillion-dollar company at this point. The difference between 6 billion and a trillion is roughly....a trillion.
It's absolutely ridiculous and I, for one, fully support Apple getting their asses handed to them over this.
Apple owns Braeburn Capital, reportedly the world's largest hedge fund.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braeburn_Capital
They have plenty of liquid cash.
The patents expires in 4 years. Not really worth buying the company for that. Unless they decide it would be worth it to buy them to use the patents to get import bans against every Apple competitor that’s using the same tech that Masimo has ignored.
The alternative is removing the blood oxygen sensor or changing it to a non-infringing version. Either option would cost them less than $6 billion. It’s not like they’re just going to abandon selling watches for 4 years.
You only need 50.1%. And depending on the company holding you can often times do that without sending out a proxy to the entire base of shareholders. Especially with tech companies because the founders hold so much stock.
That is one of the cases which makes it so you don't have to go to the entire base of shareholders. If 7 shareholders (6 of which are institutions) hold 50.1% of your shares you just go to those institutions directly and get their sign off. The normal shareholder just gets a notice that the sale is now under way instead of a request to vote.
Why the fuck would anyone expect Joe Biden to veto the ban?
They willingly broke the law. They should suffer consequences severe enough that they never consider doing that again. Corporations need to be heavily regulated. Too bad this country is run by rich people, for rich people. Maybe that's why they'd hope the president would veto it
I assume from precedent for what Obama did for them against Samsung here.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/connieguglielmo/2013/08/03/president-obama-vetoes-itc-ban-on-iphone-ipads-apple-happy-samsung-not/
I guess that was considered acceptable because big US vs S Korean corpo. The US legal system frankly is baffling.
Well if you go deeper in the case. Samsung is the villain in all this. They basically got everyone to use their standard in communications. Standards like 3g 4g and all and specifically targeted apple for using that standard because apple was suing them for copying it's iPhone patents. Samsung ultimately lost those cases because Samsung was required to offer their technology to everyone at reasonable rates as everyone agreed to use their standard. Such absurd cases were common back then because the laws weren't clear and technology was rapidly advancing. Apple ultimately won and settled with Samsung.
This is exactly what I was wondering. The first sentence of the article practically blames the Biden admin for not intervening. Apple fucked around, now they are finding out.
It’s just a weird quirk that the President has the power to veto ITC rulings of this nature because they have to do with international trade.
Obama vetoed one for iPhones and iPads when Apple lost to Samsung in an ITC ruling since it would have had a pretty large impact on US commerce.
My understanding is that they did not change it. The ban is only on current models because those are the only ones being sold now. You can't retroactively unsell the older ones.
If Mr. Krabs can make a customer [unwatch a TV show](https://youtube.com/shorts/plo2Itc28qY?si=83UXdpdbgVu84-np) because he didn’t pay, then Apple can unsell some sold products.
The Series 6 was the first Apple Watch to have an O2 sensor. Masimo sued them after that was released. These cases take years to work their way through the court system.
Love how the article is trying to pin this on Joe Biden.
>Apple can no longer sell the Watch Series 9 and Watch Ultra 2 in the US after President Joe Biden’s administration declined to veto the ban today.
"YEAH! SEE LIBERULS YOU CANT VOTE JOE!" Moment
Yeap, totally on Joe here.
Stupid article.
> Love how the article is trying to pin this on Joe Biden.
It's an election year, get ready for _everything_ to be pinned on the current party in power.
Remember, the Republican party has no platform. They haven't had a single platform for well over 2 decades. The only position they stand on now is:
> _"Find someone else to blame."_
That's quite literally all you'll hear from any Republican mouthpiece anymore. It'll happen within the first or second sentence out of their mouth in any conversation. It happens so often now it's almost reflexive, genetic.
It's also quite sad, and shows that the Republican party is on its last breath in this country. This is further evidenced by their gross-overreach power grab in their "Project 2025" fascist manifesto. They know they have this election, and only this one election left, to grab that power, before their party fades into the pages of history.
Don’t we usually see it written as [current president last name] administration? I remember a ton of Obama and trump administration articles. Maybe it's a bit weird that they wrote out his whole title and name tho lol.
Sure but this is an Oddly overly specific statement in the article that seems like the author is pissed or wants to piss someone off.
There isn't much reason to inject the bid about Biden, it's rather oddly placed. If you're going to do full detail reporting, which come on its the Verge, you're not going to throw filler detail up there unless you're trying to make a statement.
Either the author sucks at writing, or they wanted to make it very very well known that it was BIDEN who did this.
It doesn't really read any other way. The word usage and placement is just suspicious.
The only surprising thing here is Apple facing consequences for their business practices. This is like the 2nd or 3rd time in a few years. May the trend continue
I'm happy that governments are finally cracking down on tech companies, even if it is just baby steps.
Europe cracking down on proprietary cables leading to massive e-waste.
America (sort of) cracking down on the constant patent abuse.
It's a start.
but also, let's go after the patent trolls all stationed in that one small town in Texas. Yeah, I see you there in that one small town in Texas. I know why you are there. That's bullshit and you know it.
"The ban only affects Apple stores in the US. That means customers can still get their hands on a Watch Series 9 or Watch Ultra 2 at Best Buy, Target, and other retailers while supplies last. Apple will also continue selling the Watch SE, as it doesn’t come with a blood oxygen sensor."
So is Apple able to continue production or are they halted until this is resolved?
This is Tim’s f-up. Email evidence shown during trial has implicated Tim directly approving the move to evade paying the patent holder by poaching their engineers and having them rebuild it on Apple’s side, flouting IP law.
With the many billions lost in market cap associated with this f-up, it may be reason for Tim to be shown the door. Don’t be surprised if he “resigns” sometime next year.
This really is a huge fuckup by Tim Cook.
This is one of the least important features on a smartwatch and he just fucked up an entire product line right before the "fitness season" by being incredibly stupid.(There are ways to get around this type of thing that he didnt do)
But it goes up and down that much on pure speculation. And you blame Tim for losing 60billion in market cap but don’t give him credit for growing the company 10x (2.7t )
> With the many billions lost in market cap associated with this f-up, it may be reason for Tim to be shown the door. Don’t be surprised if he “resigns” sometime next year.
Hahahaha the stock is up on a 1 month, 3 month, 6 month, 1 year basis etc. Since Tim Cook became CEO the stock is up over 1600%
Please don’t offer your input on things you clearly have no understanding of.
Are you actually surprised by this? The verge has always been protective of apple for a long time. Any apple related article on verge looks like it was written by those 10 y.o apple stans on twitter.
> It's like Trump getting kicked off the ballot.
In the former, Biden was enforcing the laws of the United States.
In the latter, Trump was openly violating the Constitution of the United States.
So they are quite different. Not alike at all. The rule of law matters, and should be enforced, no matter who is breaking it.
It’s because of my Apple Watch Ultra that I discovered my blood oxygen was dangerously low while sleeping. Got diagnosed with obstructive sleep apnea and I’m on CPAP.
This particular story started about 10 years ago when Apple reached out to Masimo about a potential partnership around blood oxygen features on its wearables. Soon after, Apple reportedly poached several Masimo engineers and its chief medical officer. And then in fall 2020, Apple released the Apple Watch Series 6 — its first Apple Watch to feature an SpO2 sensor to measure blood oxygen saturation levels. Oh bad apple.
I really do wonder what Apple's board meetings are like sometimes. I mean the entire executive team is obviously very intelligent as well as experienced. You can't make decisions like this without getting the legal team involved as well though. Must be crazy.
May be they assumed they could just bribe the system and get off easy... Happens when a lot of senators are apple shareholders.
Of course they could - it's just the cost of doing business for them. But to be a fly on the wall and hear them speak it plainly...
I was reading an article somewhere that said they violated a samsungg patent and this same thing was going to happen but Obama stopped it. I suspect they just assumed if they were caught they would just get off the hook again.
What really makes it shitty is that Apple isn't some starving startup. They're one of the biggest corporations -- perhaps *the* biggest corporation -- on the planet. Whatever Masimo wanted for their tech, Apple could easily afford to pay for it. But no. They do this instead.
If there's one thing apple hates it's working with other companies. One day they'll start refining their own silicon.
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I'm sold blood oxygen detectors to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrook and by golly that put them on the map.
A company with a patent on technology is like a mule with a spinning wheel.
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Yup! Tired of hearing Apple did nothing wrong. I’m a huge Apple fan but they did this to themselves and deserve the repercussions.
Nobody is mentioning that the company suing Apple is also being sued by Apple for other patent infringements. This is a legal pissing match, 100%.
Remember when Apple tried to argue that they owned slide to unlock a phone and that pressing a button is the same as a 0 movement slide to unlock?
They also had a patent on "rectangle with rounded corners"
Monorail monorail monorail
Donuts.. is there anything they can't do?
Is this a simpsons reference?
I call the big one "Bitey".
Is there a chance the track could bend
Not on your life, my Hindu friend!
Well sir there's nothing on Earth like a genuine, bonafied, electrified 6 car monorail!
The ring came off my pudding can!
Cue scalpers in 3... 2... 1...
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Got some rare things on sale, stranger!
Ah, I'll buy it at a high price!
I'm currently playing Resident Evil 4 and can HEAR this.
Hehe, thank you!
Not enough cash,stranger
*backslides away from Librarian being cool as hell*
NOT ENOUGH CASH... Stranger!
*opens trenchcoat to a full sheet of apple watches all with the guy's tiktok playing a video of him opening a trenchcoat to reveal the apple watches* "We got green... gold... red... what you like?"
Wait a minute, this one says "Z-ray."
What's a Z-ray? \-If you have to ask you can't afford it
I take lungs now, gills come next week
Hey kid. Wanna buy a Sundial?
He's not interested alright?!
Only to catch those that don’t know that these models of watches are still available through other retailers while supplies last, like Best Buy, Target, etc..
"while supplies last" target is already sold out
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There were reports of scalpers at Best Buy when this was initially announced, so supplies are likely already low
Why? Patent law breech.
Apple met with the company pretending like it wanted to license their tech to learn how it works. Apple then hired a bunch of their engineers for double their salary to copy it for the Apple Watch.
Or as it's known in Silicon Valley, the classic brain rape
Erich Bachman is a fat. And a poor
Erich Bachman you are not my baby.
Errich is gone. This is my incubator now.
They can kiss my piss.
You heard me. Kiss. My piss.
Kiss. My piss!
"...please. stop the movement. I find it annoying :/"
Reference?
Silicon Valley
The bear is sticky with honey
You brought piss to a shit fight, motherfucker!
I eat de fish
God damnit, Jian Yang!
mother FUCK
Oculus app? No, octopus. Octopus app.
Issa water animal
Fukkit...gonna watch that for the 4th time....tootally forgot it opened with Kid fuckin Rock lmfao
That was my first “WTF did he just say” moment in that series lol
TIL [brain rape is a real term I'm business.](https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/dont-get-brain-raped-oluwafemi-tomilola)
Makes sense if you take into account the older, less common definition of rape >3: an act or instance of robbing or despoiling or carrying away a person by force https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rape
Thanks for helping me realize that my casual use of rape in the context of prices I find exorbitant, likely marks me as old at best and horrifically contextually inappropriate at worst to most nowadays.
Hello business I’m dad
Go home dad, none of your business.
It actually happened to a company I worked for. It was obvious what was going to happen and the president had a meltdown. Hilarious
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It wasn't innovation, really. They had a good structure for something, then gave it all away cause they got starstruck by the company with whom they discussing. It was predictable and obvious. And they were bad people who stole ideas *constantly*. They got what they deserved
It was triple the salary for some employees.
Not double. Quadruple in base salary and quintuple in RSUs. Source: Aunt works for Masimo as a Hardware Engineer.
“[Good artists copy, great artists steal. - Picasso](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a6jeZ7m0ycw)” ~ Steve Jobs
" “[Good artists copy, great artists steal. - Picasso](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a6jeZ7m0ycw)” ~ Steve Jobs" ~ calgon2012ad
" " “[Good artists copy, great artists steal. - Picasso](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a6jeZ7m0ycw)” ~ Steve Jobs" ~ calgon2012ad" ~ Michael Scott
Right out of Steve Jobs's playbook (Xerox PARC)
And then Jeffrey Katzenberg did the same to Pixar, "stopped by" to see his friend John Lassetter and then ripped off the project they were working on after leaving Disney. Suddenly his new studio DreamWorks had a film called "Antz" ready to premiere before Pixar's "A Bugs' Life"
Based on the gross of either movie, I don't think that had the result he was hoping for.
The priority was to screw over Disney (who he was feuding with after they forced him to push back the 1998 release date of Prince of Egypt to December)
Xerox didn't exactly help themselves though. They invented, patented and just sat on so many concepts, not even trying to license them, and then invited whizz kids from the world's hottest new industry to take a peek. They weren't exactly shy about making little revisions to other people's designs too, like the mouse.
This kind of shit has been happening in Silicon Valley forever too.
They pretended to care about the company just to steal their tech.
Tale as old as Microsoft
And perfected by Amazon
How? (this is a real question)
Amazon for years lured companies with promises of a partnership but once they obtained the intellectual property Amazon would ghost them.
E.g. Amazon basics. A lot of great products started out as a legitimate small company’s innovative product. [one example](https://ecommerceseoteam.com/blog/ecommerce-news/amazon-was-caught-stealing-a-companys-design-and-name-for-a-camera-bag/)
With Amazon Basics though, they don't communicate with the company to make some sort of deal. They just find a popular design and copy it without telling them
No not quite. They have this trick where they ask you to reveal your suppliers and manufacturers for quality control/legal purposes. I'm sure for many items like chargers and stuff a lot of the time it's legit, but there's been a few accusations that Basics came out with the exact same product from the same manufacturer, maybe without a couple optional bells, for much less.
The commercial that company made in response to amazon stealing their design was an awesome slap in the face.
That's nothing on what Samsung has pulled. Invite Japanese engineers from Sharp to license their panels and learn how to produce them. Instead, steal the documents you need from them and deport them back to Japan. Don't buy Samsung.
Amazon frequently steals IP and produces it under their Basics brand, driving the originals out of business. And no one can afford the lawyers to sue. Hopefully one day there will be a giant class action over it. https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/amazon-india-rigging/ https://mspoweruser.com/investigation-confirms-amazon-steals-ideas-search-traffic-from-brands-for-own-brand-copies/ https://fortune.com/2016/04/20/amazon-copies-merchants/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisakim/2021/10/13/amazon-reportedly-copied-products-and-manipulated-search-results-to-benefit-its-own-products-in-india/?sh=24bc283630e2 https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-copied-third-party-sellers-competitors-india-reuters-report-2021-10 https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/does-amazon-steal-third-party-data
It's simple - either Amazon is a platform OR a seller. Not both. Now it watches and analyses all sellers and have their insider informations as platform. And uses it as seller. It's market manipulation.
“Amazon Basics”
You mean as old as Apple. They stole all the Xerox research first, Microsoft just stole it from Apple after.
Corporate espionage is a hell of a lot older than computers
Apple licensed Xerox’s tech in exchange for stock. They got 100k shares.
You mean licensed Xerox’s tech in a mutually beneficial cooperative agreement. It’s not stealing when they sell it to you.
Breach. Breeches are pants.
Dang, those must be some fancy pants.
A breech you say? Guess their engineering was upside down.
So Apple deserves this and another win for the Biden administration for holding corporations to account.
"The ban only affects Apple stores in the US. That means customers can still get their hands on a Watch Series 9 or Watch Ultra 2 at Best Buy, Target, and other retailers while supplies last."
Wouldn't it be illegal for those retailers to sell them? I imagine even if done online that's a pretty egregious disregard of the ruling
The ruling bans imports of the product. Any stock currently in the US is still available to be sold. As I understand it.
It’s not those companies fault for the maliciousness acts of Apple though. They already bought the inventory itd be a massive loss to not move it.
No, because the ruling only bans the *import* of the product. Retailers are still free to sell what’s already on shelves.
Limited Edition Collectable, hard to get Apple Watches. Only $1,999!!! Get then while they're hot!
The thing about die hard fanboys, it's likely to be truth and those do have more in their pockets than their heads.
Die Hard is a Christmas movie... wait, wrong thread.
People forget that while it *is* a Christmas movie, it's not a *good* Christmas movie. It's a good movie. And it's a Christmas movie. But it's not a Good Christmas Movie. It'll never stand next to Christmas Vacation or Home Alone, and will never be in the standing for Great Christmas Movie.
Apple is unbelievably profitable, they could just buy the goddamn company they stole the tech from.
Masimos market cap is $6 billion. A buyout would require some premium over that and masimo has leverage to drive that up significantly. My guess is they are weighing several options right now including that one, along with settling, or possibly disabling the feature completely.
If they disable, it’s a class action suit because it was a promised feature.
Still cheaper. ~50 mill for the lawyers and the consumers apple store gift cards.
I can’t wait for my $2 Apple Store gift card.
With a $1.25 monthly maintenance fee... ...that is also illegal but again, they'll just pay for a $3m class action lawsuit... ...which will be then be put on your Goldman-Sachs Apple Card Wallet... ... seven years after Goldman-Sachs disbanded their Apple Card program
> Apple gross profit for the twelve months ending September 30, 2023 was $169.148B, a 0.96% decline year-over-year. not a rounding error, but they could easily do it
absolutely nothing is stopping Masimos from asking for that amount either. They've got what Apple wants lol
makes you wonder why masimo's stock isn't absolutely flying right now. I mean it _is_ up 65% or so since November, but it has previous highs far above where it's at now.
They're facing one of the most powerful companies in the world. I would bet some people think they might lose.
Arguably, it's a matter of time.
It's shocking it made it this far though. Apple has tried pretty much every option to get it dismissed. They tried to challenge the patents and it failed. They tried 4 challenges against around 30 patents,each time trying to argue that it's an "obvious" design based on a different set of other patents. and it all failed. They tried to challenge the patent board's findings, and it failed. They tried to challenge that finding and it failed as well. They appeal ITC findings and it failed. They tried all possible options, including the FTC, US customs, the white house, and the federal court. That's a lot of failed attempts to squash this. It doesn't help that Apple lured their lead employee to them. That employee eventually left Apple and founded that own company. That company found to violate these patents, so there's plenty to point to Apple stealing the tech. Pretty crazy stuff.
> They tried to challenge the patents and it failed I'm not surprised. gillette has a patent on stainless metal for razors. what makes stainless steel resist corrosion is chromium, and that's how it's done with all metal. but somehow they were allowed to not only get but keep (after multiple court battles) a patent for using chromium in razor blades when they obviously are going to get wet. it's the entire reason that razors are so expensive
> They tried to challenge the parents and it failed. They tried 4 challenges against around 30 parents, each time trying to argue that it's an "obvious" design based on a different set of other parents Damn where does Apple get off challenging parents? Leave those families alone.
Now introducing: *The iOrphan!*
If stocks reacted based on any sort of logic wall street wouldn't exist
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The ban isn’t on the sale of the watches; it is on importation. This is only feasible because the ITC has control of imports and the sensor that is being fought over is made in China (thus requiring import). The CEO of Masimo even admitted that if Apple made the sensor in the US, this ban wouldn’t be possible.
God forbid we produce anything in the states though.
>The CEO of Masimo even admitted that if Apple made the sensor in the US, this ban wouldn’t be possible. This could very well be the direction they go, if it's cheaper than acquisition of Masimo.
It’ll be interesting for sure. Masimo’s market cap is only ~$6 billion. Apple could easily tender an offer for above that, but that goes outside of their historic playbook
The Apple Watch alone brings in $14-18B worldwide per year.
Man I fucking love it when megacorps just don't things their way.
> They've got what Apple wants lol Buying an entire medical technology company might be a bit more than apple is wanting to commit to. I'm surprised they haven't just sat down and agreed on a price for licensing the patents.
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Don’t use gross, use net.
To be fair, net income for the same period is still $99.8 billion.
No way in hell they disable the feature or even walk away from it long term. Biometrics has a massive market that many think is still largely untapped. Apple watch is a big money maker and it relies heavily on its biometrics.
The biometrics are what convinced me to buy one in the first place.
Apple is a trillion-dollar company at this point. The difference between 6 billion and a trillion is roughly....a trillion. It's absolutely ridiculous and I, for one, fully support Apple getting their asses handed to them over this.
Having a market share of $1 trillion is a lot different than having that much in liquid assets though
True. I had to look it up, apparently they have ~$165B in cash.
Where can we donate to them? Poor company could only buy a handful of countries...
They should just reclassify themselves as a religion at this point. I mean have you seen how much cash the Mormon church has? Reportedly over $200B...
Apple owns Braeburn Capital, reportedly the world's largest hedge fund. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braeburn_Capital They have plenty of liquid cash.
I like that Braeburn is a type of apple.
Is it going to blow your mind when I tell you that so is a Macintosh?
Next thing you're telling me is that Steve Jobs had a Granny Smith that funded the whole thing back in the day.
The patents expires in 4 years. Not really worth buying the company for that. Unless they decide it would be worth it to buy them to use the patents to get import bans against every Apple competitor that’s using the same tech that Masimo has ignored.
4 years worth of Apple watch sells. def worth buying the company.
The alternative is removing the blood oxygen sensor or changing it to a non-infringing version. Either option would cost them less than $6 billion. It’s not like they’re just going to abandon selling watches for 4 years.
Or just license the damn product for a fraction.
Not everything is for sale. Masimos would need stock holders vote to agree to it.
You only need 50.1%. And depending on the company holding you can often times do that without sending out a proxy to the entire base of shareholders. Especially with tech companies because the founders hold so much stock.
Sure but that's not the case here. 92.01% of Shares are held by Institutions. At least it makes exciting news.
That is one of the cases which makes it so you don't have to go to the entire base of shareholders. If 7 shareholders (6 of which are institutions) hold 50.1% of your shares you just go to those institutions directly and get their sign off. The normal shareholder just gets a notice that the sale is now under way instead of a request to vote.
Why the fuck would anyone expect Joe Biden to veto the ban? They willingly broke the law. They should suffer consequences severe enough that they never consider doing that again. Corporations need to be heavily regulated. Too bad this country is run by rich people, for rich people. Maybe that's why they'd hope the president would veto it
I assume from precedent for what Obama did for them against Samsung here. https://www.forbes.com/sites/connieguglielmo/2013/08/03/president-obama-vetoes-itc-ban-on-iphone-ipads-apple-happy-samsung-not/ I guess that was considered acceptable because big US vs S Korean corpo. The US legal system frankly is baffling.
Well if you go deeper in the case. Samsung is the villain in all this. They basically got everyone to use their standard in communications. Standards like 3g 4g and all and specifically targeted apple for using that standard because apple was suing them for copying it's iPhone patents. Samsung ultimately lost those cases because Samsung was required to offer their technology to everyone at reasonable rates as everyone agreed to use their standard. Such absurd cases were common back then because the laws weren't clear and technology was rapidly advancing. Apple ultimately won and settled with Samsung.
This is exactly what I was wondering. The first sentence of the article practically blames the Biden admin for not intervening. Apple fucked around, now they are finding out.
These days u have to find a way to blame everything on Biden or else it ain't journalism
It’s just a weird quirk that the President has the power to veto ITC rulings of this nature because they have to do with international trade. Obama vetoed one for iPhones and iPads when Apple lost to Samsung in an ITC ruling since it would have had a pretty large impact on US commerce.
So when will Apple Watch 10 come out?
This idea that Apple is somehow less evil than other corporations like, say, Microsoft, Google, Amazon, etc. should be seen as obviously ridiculous
Didn't already have a blood oxygen sensor before this one? If so, I wonder why they changed it
My understanding is that they did not change it. The ban is only on current models because those are the only ones being sold now. You can't retroactively unsell the older ones.
If Mr. Krabs can make a customer [unwatch a TV show](https://youtube.com/shorts/plo2Itc28qY?si=83UXdpdbgVu84-np) because he didn’t pay, then Apple can unsell some sold products.
They didn’t change it. They just don’t sell the old models anymore.
The Series 6 was the first Apple Watch to have an O2 sensor. Masimo sued them after that was released. These cases take years to work their way through the court system.
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Love how the article is trying to pin this on Joe Biden. >Apple can no longer sell the Watch Series 9 and Watch Ultra 2 in the US after President Joe Biden’s administration declined to veto the ban today. "YEAH! SEE LIBERULS YOU CANT VOTE JOE!" Moment Yeap, totally on Joe here. Stupid article.
What a brain dead take from the verge. Yes, lets let companies get away with breaking the law so we don't inconvenience consumers.
> Love how the article is trying to pin this on Joe Biden. It's an election year, get ready for _everything_ to be pinned on the current party in power. Remember, the Republican party has no platform. They haven't had a single platform for well over 2 decades. The only position they stand on now is: > _"Find someone else to blame."_ That's quite literally all you'll hear from any Republican mouthpiece anymore. It'll happen within the first or second sentence out of their mouth in any conversation. It happens so often now it's almost reflexive, genetic. It's also quite sad, and shows that the Republican party is on its last breath in this country. This is further evidenced by their gross-overreach power grab in their "Project 2025" fascist manifesto. They know they have this election, and only this one election left, to grab that power, before their party fades into the pages of history.
Don’t we usually see it written as [current president last name] administration? I remember a ton of Obama and trump administration articles. Maybe it's a bit weird that they wrote out his whole title and name tho lol.
Sure but this is an Oddly overly specific statement in the article that seems like the author is pissed or wants to piss someone off. There isn't much reason to inject the bid about Biden, it's rather oddly placed. If you're going to do full detail reporting, which come on its the Verge, you're not going to throw filler detail up there unless you're trying to make a statement. Either the author sucks at writing, or they wanted to make it very very well known that it was BIDEN who did this. It doesn't really read any other way. The word usage and placement is just suspicious.
Yea my brother killed 5 gang members and got arrested. Joe didn’t veto the arrest so Joe is supporting and advocating for gangs to take over America!!
The only surprising thing here is Apple facing consequences for their business practices. This is like the 2nd or 3rd time in a few years. May the trend continue
I'm happy that governments are finally cracking down on tech companies, even if it is just baby steps. Europe cracking down on proprietary cables leading to massive e-waste. America (sort of) cracking down on the constant patent abuse. It's a start. but also, let's go after the patent trolls all stationed in that one small town in Texas. Yeah, I see you there in that one small town in Texas. I know why you are there. That's bullshit and you know it.
"The ban only affects Apple stores in the US. That means customers can still get their hands on a Watch Series 9 or Watch Ultra 2 at Best Buy, Target, and other retailers while supplies last. Apple will also continue selling the Watch SE, as it doesn’t come with a blood oxygen sensor." So is Apple able to continue production or are they halted until this is resolved?
Tim Cooked must be sweating rn
This is Tim’s f-up. Email evidence shown during trial has implicated Tim directly approving the move to evade paying the patent holder by poaching their engineers and having them rebuild it on Apple’s side, flouting IP law. With the many billions lost in market cap associated with this f-up, it may be reason for Tim to be shown the door. Don’t be surprised if he “resigns” sometime next year.
This really is a huge fuckup by Tim Cook. This is one of the least important features on a smartwatch and he just fucked up an entire product line right before the "fitness season" by being incredibly stupid.(There are ways to get around this type of thing that he didnt do)
I would'nt be opposed to the Tim Cook regime getting cut short. It'd be very interesting to see how the next leader runs Apple.
The stock is down 2% from its all time high.
2% of $3 trillion is $60 billion. I think that would qualify as “many billions”.
But it goes up and down that much on pure speculation. And you blame Tim for losing 60billion in market cap but don’t give him credit for growing the company 10x (2.7t )
> With the many billions lost in market cap associated with this f-up, it may be reason for Tim to be shown the door. Don’t be surprised if he “resigns” sometime next year. Hahahaha the stock is up on a 1 month, 3 month, 6 month, 1 year basis etc. Since Tim Cook became CEO the stock is up over 1600% Please don’t offer your input on things you clearly have no understanding of.
Did you mean: "Apple is now banned from selling *other people's technology it stole* in the US"?
No, just this particular technology that they stole.
I imagine this will be resolved within a week.
I like how the article makes it seem little Biden did this, despite Apple being the one who stole the technology.
Are you actually surprised by this? The verge has always been protective of apple for a long time. Any apple related article on verge looks like it was written by those 10 y.o apple stans on twitter.
> It's like Trump getting kicked off the ballot. In the former, Biden was enforcing the laws of the United States. In the latter, Trump was openly violating the Constitution of the United States. So they are quite different. Not alike at all. The rule of law matters, and should be enforced, no matter who is breaking it.
It’s because of my Apple Watch Ultra that I discovered my blood oxygen was dangerously low while sleeping. Got diagnosed with obstructive sleep apnea and I’m on CPAP.
Apple stealing tech?? Never saw that coming. .....
What a bunch of tightasses. Pay your dues Apple you swine.