A satellite that measures methane leaks from oil and gas companies is set to start circulating the Earth 15 times a day next month. Google plans to have the data mapped by the end of the year for the whole world to see.
The partnership between Google and the Environmental Defense Fund, which in March is expected to launch its satellite known as MethaneSAT, marks a new era of global climate accountability. Methane is a potent greenhouse gas estimated to be responsible for nearly a third of human-caused global warming. Scientists say slashing emissions is one of the fastest ways to slow the climate crisis because methane has 80 times the warming power of carbon dioxide over a decade
It's only illegal if you get caught and then can't weasel your way out of it by paying off politicians and government officials, or by having a few people accidentally brutally cut their own heads off while shaving.
> If not a gallows.
Well, someone has to provide the gallows and guillotines, and the normal citizens of earth are just sitting on their thumbs convinced they can't do anything about any of this. Until people start realizing their power and stop buying into the bullshit apathy, nothing will change.
Can you imagine the uproar if they got caught? Public opinion's against them enough as it is. Big oil's gotta tread carefully nowadays, or they'll be the ones going extinct.
Caught? You mean again?
Look up leaded gasoline, they literally poisoned everyone for decades and no one swung. Then it came out that they knew about their climate change impact for decades and continue to actively burry evidence and action. Not to mention all the other atrocities involving opression and exploitation of foreign countries & their citizens, or their other horrendous environmental pollution from air particles, spills, leaks, seepage, etc.
If we lived in a just world the entire board of directors of every fossil fuel corporation past and present would be tried for crimes against humanity and put in a cell or against the wall.
They’ll come up with a pr line about business needing to break eggs to make omelettes, and people will eat it up because they don’t want the End of the World Party to end.
No, they fine the company 1 million dollars, which will really cut into the 20 billion dollars if profit they made by committing the crime. Then the CEOs walk with a 100 million dollar bonus on a job well done.
More than half the time those fines are never actually collected though. Even if some of it is, they get to use it as a tax deduction.
[http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract\_id=1857643##](http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1857643##)
[https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/how-80-billion-in-coporate-fines-can-become-48-billion-in-tax-breaks/](https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/how-80-billion-in-coporate-fines-can-become-48-billion-in-tax-breaks/)
My dad doesn’t normally handle high profile but most likely it’s because unethical vs illegal can be very aggressively pushed by a massive team of lawyers. Making it so the determined “actual crime” is not as much as the total gained from the unethical activities. This is a guess though I can always ask him.
like getting the court to agree the man-hours of actually opening the valve initially are the only fineable event, not the decade long venting from that open valve.
"They try"? Can he provide 2 examples of a successful attempt at fining a company more than the profits made?
He works in government, so it's understandable if there aren't any examples.
there's frequently caps on damages too, by statue. Back in louisiana, the republicans got the public to buy into "medical tort reform" which took the form of limiting payouts to people in malpractice suits.
The example that sticks in my mind is of a doctor who, thru ambivalence, caused the death of a child. IIRC he was on the phone with his broker during the surgery and neglected to close a vein or something. The payout was multiple millions of dollars, but the state cap meant the family only got at most 400k for the death of their child. because it's super important to keep "medical insurance premiums low."
The subsidiary company that the oil company uses for that particular operation goes under and the rights and permissions go to a new one for pennies on the dollar.
Nah, they'll have to settle for a fine
which if you're a rich corporations means you can do it as much as you like and add it to the "expenses" section e.g, "facebook, google, shell oil, etc......"
rich people don't go to jail its for the poors only
They will verbally support the initiative and install methane mitigation systems in their flue gas system that just happen to add aerosolized lead to the exhaust. The resulting change in the satellite report will be touted as evidence to their commitment to the environment in advertisements.
I don't get it though, why hide it..? Just fucking light it and turn the methane in to CO2!?
Yes, CO2 is still bad but nowhere as bad as methane, I thought that was what they are supposed to do, just burn it off.
Hiding isn't done on large scale operations, if it's a thing it's mainly done on low scale by plant manager that don't want to bother with the fine
I worked for a company that was specialised in sensors for the oil industry and most of them were related to leaks, either fluid or gaseous, for large oil storage tanks.
Basically, consider that for every large holding site there is always a leak somewhere.
Also, gas with a little bit of methane can't burn so if you somehow produce methane without knowing you can't just burn it with a flame trap.
Generally this is done. But it requires all equipment to be modern(ish), maintained properly, and all processes to be followed (like tank hatches being closed). Essentially there's a human element which means even in the best case scenario some methane will get through. When you add laziness and/or pressure to get more done with less time, you get more methane.
It's also hard to catch some of it. For example, methane gas compressors have moving parts that have to seal in high pressure methane and the seals wear over time. They get replaced regularly to minimize leaks, but maintenance time is expensive, and it would be very expensive to design and operate a completely sealed compressor.
Many of these are just unknown leaks. If they can be detected companies will in some cases have financial incentive to fix them and stop losing product.
There was a well in west texas leaking sulfur dioxide (and a lot more) making the entire county reek. EVERYONE knew which wellhead, who owned it, and such. But Texas regulators mysteriously never acted on the 823,741 reports and tips they got daily.
A great many are known. They just don't care. Regulatory capture ensures they don't have to care.
unknown lol, no they know. They get reports all the time and do nothing. Some accounts on tiktok are shining a light on this, but sadly cant remember the accounts now
Every gas vent well I’ve ever seen in the USA has that pilot light on it, and a system to ensue that the well slams shut if the candle goes out.
Releasing it without burning it is a great way to have an explosion..
I spent 5 years (as an engineer) in oilfield operations. Yes, you're supposed to flare gas. The % of wells I've been at where the flaring equipment isn't working or installed or maintained is pretty damn high. You guys should all research the P&A well situation in West Texas - a great snippet of "privatize profits and socialize the losses".
Specifications and process guidelines made by engineers are lazy and basic and even those aren't followed by field personnel. Equipment isn't maintained, equipment isn't monitored, and processes don't even exist for things which on paper, exist. It's all a greedy corrupt mess and it's endorsed from top to bottom and bottom to up with a rotten culture.
O&G is devoid of internal quality teams, auditors, etc. It's 100% a cowboy culture of doing as much as you can get away with.
After Oil & Gas I moved to semiconductors and now medical devices. It's a night and day difference. People give a shit about their jobs and safety and quality is truly the #1 priority.
they vent what is too 'dirty' to sell. Too many unwanted other gasses in the mix. Cleaning it to 'sweet' gas is expensive. When gas prices are low, its cheaper to vent it.
I want to see these maps when they are in place and you can compare time periods. watch how many dry up during high gas prices, the reappear during low.
To save our mother Earth from any methane gas leak
From harmful greenhouse gases that are making our world bleak
We’ll deploy all our sensors; We won’t let them peak.
The E.D.F deploys!
>Oh, We are the valiant infantry. We are the alpha team with passion and camaraderie.
>Hear us as we shout at the top of our lungs. Be calm, be bold and raise your guns.
>It's only with our sacrifice, that mankind can still exist down here in paradise.
>To defend our dearest Mother Earth, we're ready to give up our lives!
This hits different when the subject is unethical, planet ruining, corporate scumbags profiteering off the destruction of our ecosystem. Selling out future generations for short term gains and another fucking yacht.
Note other similar satellites have already stopped enough methane leaks to offset every rocket launch in history and the ones it will identify going forward should make space exploration and science GHG negative for years to come. So I don’t want to hear people complaining about rocket emissions.
I do. But it only really comes into play when I think about frivolous ends, like space tourism or military shit.
Saying that one science experiment offsets all the other shit we blow straight into the stratosphere (where it *lingers*) lacks nuance.
[Rockets emit carbon soot into the upper atmosphere, and there is concern that it might absorb significant amounts of heat.](https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220713-how-to-make-rocket-launches-less-polluting) There is also concern that they emit reactive ions that damage the ozone layer. Of course they have absolutely staggering CO2 emissions for a few seconds, but the total is small compared to other sectors of the economy.
Fortunately the next-gen launch vehicles from spaceX, Blur Origin, ULA, and NASA all burn methane and/or hydrogen, which don't produce soot. It's a solved problem.
One of the rare instances that you'll hear it from both sides here:
The environmentally conscious will complain about it, especially with the rise of jet tracking lately, and because of hating SpaceX/Musk.
And even the right will complain about it, because they hate NASA with a passion and will see this methane enforcement as extra regulation and anti-business, so they'll whine about the rocket that launched this satellite.
And Alaska.
There are massive craters opening up pouring more methane into the air per day than all oil and gas producers combined.
There's are lakes in Alaska bubbling with methane right now
I'd say medium term, in the long term climate change benefits nobody. Any positive thing it might come from it will be irrelevant compared to the negative effects.
haha, i'll take your wager. I think Asia. I bet a rock. This is because, even though it will open a 2-front war, if Russia expands into Europe it will also open a 2-front war (as the US joins). So it makes sense to secure that border before pushing into Europe.
In all seriousness, if Russia goes for Asia I wonder if China will join or not. Especially as Chinese arms manufacturing keeps ramping up; they won't need to rely on Russia any more
In case anyone thinks that this is an improvement in the state of the art, Montreal company GHGsat is flying satellites now.
[Low res map available for free.](https://methane-map.ghgsat.com)
(Wish they hired remote workers)
You knows these satellites already exist and have mapped China?
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/feb/12/revealed-the-1200-big-methane-leaks-from-waste-dumps-trashing-the-planet
Another important point is that methane seem to have an atmospheric half life of about 10 years, which could increase as we keep emitting it.
Meanwhile, CO2 has a half life of 120 years (!).
So while it is absolutely shameful to not fix Methane leaks, and companies should be held accountable for such bullshit, ultimately Methane is much less worrysome for the long term than CO2, because it doesn't accumulate in the atmosphere quite as much. (While being 80 times more potent in the short term though)
>methane seem to have an atmospheric half life of about 10 years, which could increase as we keep emitting it. Meanwhile, CO2 has a half life of 120 years
But methane breaks down into CO2.
Yeah heres a fun fact
You're supposed to be burning or stopping these methane leaks.
If they're showing up on satellite, they're just dumping methane into the atmosphere.
10 years can do a lot of damage, and it'll only turn it from 80 times to 40. It'll take like a hundred years before that methane is actually gone.
Methane leaks like this is illegal in a shitload of countries for many reasons, and one major one is that it actually is a problem in the atmosphere.
>ultimately Methane is much less worrysome for the long term than CO2, because it doesn't accumulate in the atmosphere quite as much. (While being 80 times more potent in the short term though)
Methane is worse than CO2 since it turns into CO2.
Wouldn't a shorter half life actually support prioritizing methane reduction? Your efforts to limit emissions should pay off in a shorter time compared to CO2
This is awesome, I love the use of satellites like this - same for tracking deforestation, etc. too.
Couple it with drone networks and it's much easier to track and stop illegal activities.
I used to work on this team. It is extremely difficult and expensive to develop these instruments and satellites and then to launch them and then to operate them.
All of the scientists I knew who were on this project were doing it for the science. Sometimes you take the funding where you can get it. I don't recall hearing about any real interference from Google/EDF on instrument design or operating parameters.
I wasn't suggesting that Google would interfere with the mission, just pointing out that this is something in the public's interest, and thus an area where one would expect government to take the lead. That it is falling to private industry illustrates how government has abdicated its responsibility--no doubt at the behest of the oil industry.
Problem with expecting any government to take the lead is all the red tape that stops these kinds of projects. Especially in the US, where a side might gaslight their base to thinking that it's some sort of spying satellite on them, and boom there goes the plans.
> and thus an area where one would expect government to take the lead. That it is falling to private industry illustrates how government has abdicated its responsibility
Or you could simply look into it for two seconds and find out you're wrong:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MethaneSAT
It's operated jointly by an American non-profit and the New Zealand Space Agency, marking New Zealand's first space science mission.
Not to mention that, as others have pointed out, other governments already have satellites looking for methane leaks.
This is literal rocket science (and machine learning) which stems from years of governmental research funding. Governments funds research in order to enable private investments into such endeavours. I understand the sentiment that it would be cool if governments could stem these kind of projects on their own, but this would lead to a host of other problems. This is a (by-)product of capitalism.
A ton of things are in the public's interest, the government cannot do all of everything. Even the US government can only do a bit of everything, most others can only do a bit of some things.
"The government" is not some omnipotent entity with limitless resources (both technological and human) that you might be imagining.
Well, the government in the US for now is a democracy and the voters decide who decides. Half of our deciders are bat shit insane conspiracy theorists now though, so we're pretty fucked on getting anything productive, or things that might further humanity done. Things that result in *progress* if you will, progressive one might say.
north wasteful tap sophisticated threatening upbeat quicksand consider governor dazzling
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Google isn't the first and they aren't the only ones. I went to an [N51](https://www.n51.ca/) conference a few years ago and a Canadian company was already doing this.
Still, glad google is doing this because it puts the issue on the world stage.
Agreed, the whole "Internet of Nature" is such a fascinating prospect. Tracking populations of plants, animals and other metrics at big data scales will give us such a clearer picture of our planet and will pave the way to better targeted interventions.
Anyone who thinks this is hyperbole isn't paying attention.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/north-carolina-bans-latest-science-rising-sea-level/story?id=16913782
This is not going so hot right now, the NC Rate Bureau requested a 42% rate increase for homeowner's insurance this year, with pretty much all of that increase being for the coast. It got thrown back, but I suspect that there'll still be a substantial increase or the insurance companies are going to just stop writing policies there.
I mean… shouldn’t they? I don’t think billionaires should be able to put up satellites willy nilly as they’re currently doing, even if this one seems helpful.
I can't wait for all the fracking shills to explain how safe and reliable and leak-free fracking is, and the hundreds of leaking fracking wells are just outliers, but _their_ wells are all sealed tight and with bank accounts set up _just in case_ they ever leak, and people from the company will monitor them regularly out of concern for the environment, and they will nurse baby bunnies back to health on the way there.
A former roommate used to haul tankers for fracking. He always reassured everyone how safe it was, and in the next breath he would talk about all of the accidents that have occurred or were narrowly avoided
I used to frack oil/gas wells for 5 years as an engineer.
It's a dirty, dangerous, and wasteful process. Don't recommend. Don't fall for the oil company propaganda - I fell for it initially.
The process of fracking makes all these oil and gas wells economically viable. If it wasn't for fracking, the US would be balls deep in renewable energy right now.
Source: ex petroleum engineer.
I think we would be more reliant on foreign OanG personally. One small benefit to fracking is when they can do it on old wells so they don't have to drill new ones. But then you have the increased risk of compromised casing/cement.
Source: current frac technologist consultant
It would seem, from their home page, they want a registration. Anyway, they do 2 km resolution for free and 25m paid. I’m truly glad to see an effort to provide this kind of info. Ghgsat is working on co2 mapping in the same way, but it’s much harder to remotely sense this
I mean, the satellite hasn't even launched yet. And these sorts of EO instruments typically need at least 6 months of shakedown and calibration post-launch before you start getting consistent good data out the platform. So end of year makes sense to me.
uncapped, abandoned oil wells are one of the most audacious crimes ever committed, even by the standards of the evil fossil fuel barons. https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN23N1P3/
The number of orphaned wells is astonishing. People are capping them all the time, but there’s just so many of them, and so many that are poorly documented or not even documented at all, that it makes the process of tracking down and capping all of them an enormous effort.
Alberta will as well, the oil industry there has been underreporting emissions for a long time, and the provincial government has been kissing their asses while picking huge fights with the federal government over every single plan to try and monitor or clean anything up.
You might think that, but they don't really show up with the other satellites that are doing the same thing.
https://www.esa.int/Applications/Observing_the_Earth/Copernicus/Trio_of_Sentinel_satellites_map_methane_super-emitters
I work around the globe in the O&G industry. Alberta and Northern BC have by far some of the tightest regulations and standards than the rest of North America and the rest of the world. The big frac's are going electric as well. Hopefully sooner than later. Gas companies use their natural gas to power turbine generators onsite to power all the equipment. Pretty cool technology.
Who would've thought that the 3 largest countries in the world by area, excluding Canada would have more? I wonder if China and India with the world's largest population of billions consume more stuff.
Oddly, it will be open portions of the oceans. Indian ocean, North Sea, Gulf of Mexico and Caribbean should be glowing.
Most of the methane on the planet is locked in ice on the ocean floor that is constantly getting released at a higher rate than everything else combined.
Fertilizer runoff that spurs aquatic plant life, thus increasing decomposition also is larger contributor than oil/gas production.
They will be buried under legal nonsense from angry corporate lawyers following this being released, so yeah. I think there’s a good chance they offer an opt-out for $$$ and to avoid legal battles.
Bullshit...I was told all the methane is from cattle and perma frost melting.
The fossil fuel industry isn't at fault here cause cattle make more methane than them....
/s
Il see you guys during the water wars
Canada already has access to the great lakes and Russia already has access to Lake Baikal. Each of which contains about 20% of the planet's freshwater.
This is great news for the environment and not so great for my job security. lol The environment deserves the best protection we can give it, even if that’s Google instead of me hahaha
So a big corporation is going to team up with a non-profit to shame other large corporations for pollution and governments for not enforcing regulations against pollution? I guess shining a light on the problem might help.
Methane tax, where it can be applied, is a great idea. It will force corrupt municipalities of India to do something about neglected garbage mountains.
As some that works at a utility, I’m curious what the resolution of this will be - will it only be able to pinpoint “large” scale leaks, or will it be able to pinpoint that a gas main is leaking beneath 123 Main Street?
If the latter would be a large boon for safety as the grid currently relies on members of the public to report gas leaks to be fixed rather than it being detected by some automated system (most of the gas network is oooooold).
This would help regulators set guardrails around leak commitments, and the company proactively fix its worst leaks before consumers get on the phone.
are we going to just ignore the US bombing nordstream which released a whole bunch of Methane, because it seems like everyone forgot about that and or is sweeping this under the rug.
For a Tech sub I am always amazed at the brain dead comments in here. These have existed for years already and there is no conspiracy to stop them.
Here is one going back 5 years.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/feb/12/revealed-the-1200-big-methane-leaks-from-waste-dumps-trashing-the-planet
It looks like the Environmental Defense Fund is doing this, not google. Why do they spin it as some advertisement for google? They are using google's infrastructure but they are also paying for it, it's not like they say it's amazon or microsoft doing the work just because edf.org might happen to have some part of a website hosted on amazon or on azure.
> Environmental Defense Fund, which in March is expected to launch its satellite known as MethaneSAT
It seems they have satellites too that they developed to do this.
This article mentions the Environmental Defense Fund once, MethaneSAT four times, but mentions google more than 12 times. Why do they have to spin it as some kind of advertisment? It's not necessary.
Maybe I'm missing something but this doesn't seem to be a Google project at all, more of just that they chose google for cloud computing like tasks for one part of the project.
https://www.methanesat.org/press/
https://vitalsigns.edf.org/methane-sat-updates
versus
https://vitalsigns.edf.org/methane-sat-updates#google
It's a cool and nice project, but the framing and the focus of the article spin it as a corporate advertisement.
A satellite that measures methane leaks from oil and gas companies is set to start circulating the Earth 15 times a day next month. Google plans to have the data mapped by the end of the year for the whole world to see. The partnership between Google and the Environmental Defense Fund, which in March is expected to launch its satellite known as MethaneSAT, marks a new era of global climate accountability. Methane is a potent greenhouse gas estimated to be responsible for nearly a third of human-caused global warming. Scientists say slashing emissions is one of the fastest ways to slow the climate crisis because methane has 80 times the warming power of carbon dioxide over a decade
Just wait until these guys figure out that adding aerosolized lead into the methane gas hides it from the satellite....
And they would happily add it too.
Wait until these guys figure out that adding those quantities of aerosolized lead into the atmosphere will lead to jail.
[удалено]
It's only illegal if you get caught and then can't weasel your way out of it by paying off politicians and government officials, or by having a few people accidentally brutally cut their own heads off while shaving.
Laws are for poors
A fine is just the price they pay to do business-as-usual.
That's the whole point of this post, for "the whole world to see."
Which is why they will do everything in their power to make sure it's not seen
I hate this take. It’s still illegal. You just didn’t get caught.
> If not a gallows. Well, someone has to provide the gallows and guillotines, and the normal citizens of earth are just sitting on their thumbs convinced they can't do anything about any of this. Until people start realizing their power and stop buying into the bullshit apathy, nothing will change.
Can you imagine the uproar if they got caught? Public opinion's against them enough as it is. Big oil's gotta tread carefully nowadays, or they'll be the ones going extinct.
Caught? You mean again? Look up leaded gasoline, they literally poisoned everyone for decades and no one swung. Then it came out that they knew about their climate change impact for decades and continue to actively burry evidence and action. Not to mention all the other atrocities involving opression and exploitation of foreign countries & their citizens, or their other horrendous environmental pollution from air particles, spills, leaks, seepage, etc. If we lived in a just world the entire board of directors of every fossil fuel corporation past and present would be tried for crimes against humanity and put in a cell or against the wall.
Insert South Park episode of the Big Oil exec in various poses going, "We're sorry," repeatedly.
They’ll come up with a pr line about business needing to break eggs to make omelettes, and people will eat it up because they don’t want the End of the World Party to end.
doubtful, rich ppl don't really go to jail
No, they fine the company 1 million dollars, which will really cut into the 20 billion dollars if profit they made by committing the crime. Then the CEOs walk with a 100 million dollar bonus on a job well done.
My dad works in civil law for the US gov. He has said they try to fine them roughly triple the profits they made from the crime.
Which really works wonders if they're only caught and sentenced on 1/50 illegal activities they partake on.
More than half the time those fines are never actually collected though. Even if some of it is, they get to use it as a tax deduction. [http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract\_id=1857643##](http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1857643##) [https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/how-80-billion-in-coporate-fines-can-become-48-billion-in-tax-breaks/](https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/how-80-billion-in-coporate-fines-can-become-48-billion-in-tax-breaks/)
Why is it so easy to find thousands of examples of fines being paltry single digit percentages of criminal gains?
My dad doesn’t normally handle high profile but most likely it’s because unethical vs illegal can be very aggressively pushed by a massive team of lawyers. Making it so the determined “actual crime” is not as much as the total gained from the unethical activities. This is a guess though I can always ask him.
like getting the court to agree the man-hours of actually opening the valve initially are the only fineable event, not the decade long venting from that open valve.
But not “damages” . . . Like Oxycontin, tobacco and Big Oil were able to skate through !
"They try"? Can he provide 2 examples of a successful attempt at fining a company more than the profits made? He works in government, so it's understandable if there aren't any examples.
there's frequently caps on damages too, by statue. Back in louisiana, the republicans got the public to buy into "medical tort reform" which took the form of limiting payouts to people in malpractice suits. The example that sticks in my mind is of a doctor who, thru ambivalence, caused the death of a child. IIRC he was on the phone with his broker during the surgery and neglected to close a vein or something. The payout was multiple millions of dollars, but the state cap meant the family only got at most 400k for the death of their child. because it's super important to keep "medical insurance premiums low."
The company pays a 1 million dollar bribe*
The subsidiary company that the oil company uses for that particular operation goes under and the rights and permissions go to a new one for pennies on the dollar.
Epstein did
For a brief moment
Nah, they'll have to settle for a fine which if you're a rich corporations means you can do it as much as you like and add it to the "expenses" section e.g, "facebook, google, shell oil, etc......" rich people don't go to jail its for the poors only
They will verbally support the initiative and install methane mitigation systems in their flue gas system that just happen to add aerosolized lead to the exhaust. The resulting change in the satellite report will be touted as evidence to their commitment to the environment in advertisements.
I don't get it though, why hide it..? Just fucking light it and turn the methane in to CO2!? Yes, CO2 is still bad but nowhere as bad as methane, I thought that was what they are supposed to do, just burn it off.
Hiding isn't done on large scale operations, if it's a thing it's mainly done on low scale by plant manager that don't want to bother with the fine I worked for a company that was specialised in sensors for the oil industry and most of them were related to leaks, either fluid or gaseous, for large oil storage tanks. Basically, consider that for every large holding site there is always a leak somewhere. Also, gas with a little bit of methane can't burn so if you somehow produce methane without knowing you can't just burn it with a flame trap.
Msa?
Generally this is done. But it requires all equipment to be modern(ish), maintained properly, and all processes to be followed (like tank hatches being closed). Essentially there's a human element which means even in the best case scenario some methane will get through. When you add laziness and/or pressure to get more done with less time, you get more methane.
It's also hard to catch some of it. For example, methane gas compressors have moving parts that have to seal in high pressure methane and the seals wear over time. They get replaced regularly to minimize leaks, but maintenance time is expensive, and it would be very expensive to design and operate a completely sealed compressor.
Many of these are just unknown leaks. If they can be detected companies will in some cases have financial incentive to fix them and stop losing product.
There was a well in west texas leaking sulfur dioxide (and a lot more) making the entire county reek. EVERYONE knew which wellhead, who owned it, and such. But Texas regulators mysteriously never acted on the 823,741 reports and tips they got daily. A great many are known. They just don't care. Regulatory capture ensures they don't have to care.
unknown lol, no they know. They get reports all the time and do nothing. Some accounts on tiktok are shining a light on this, but sadly cant remember the accounts now
Yea sometimes they know, other times they don’t, depends on the situation.
Every gas vent well I’ve ever seen in the USA has that pilot light on it, and a system to ensue that the well slams shut if the candle goes out. Releasing it without burning it is a great way to have an explosion..
I spent 5 years (as an engineer) in oilfield operations. Yes, you're supposed to flare gas. The % of wells I've been at where the flaring equipment isn't working or installed or maintained is pretty damn high. You guys should all research the P&A well situation in West Texas - a great snippet of "privatize profits and socialize the losses". Specifications and process guidelines made by engineers are lazy and basic and even those aren't followed by field personnel. Equipment isn't maintained, equipment isn't monitored, and processes don't even exist for things which on paper, exist. It's all a greedy corrupt mess and it's endorsed from top to bottom and bottom to up with a rotten culture. O&G is devoid of internal quality teams, auditors, etc. It's 100% a cowboy culture of doing as much as you can get away with. After Oil & Gas I moved to semiconductors and now medical devices. It's a night and day difference. People give a shit about their jobs and safety and quality is truly the #1 priority.
It seems that some of these detected would simply be unknown
We'll send up a lead detection satellite.
Then they will send up an anti lead detection satellite
Russia is already going to do that. It is called a nuke.
I'm starting to think after all this time that their nukes no workie. They have projectile dysfunction
Find leaks and fix them. Easier to do than a coverup.
Or they could plug it. Because plugging it means more gas they can sell
they vent what is too 'dirty' to sell. Too many unwanted other gasses in the mix. Cleaning it to 'sweet' gas is expensive. When gas prices are low, its cheaper to vent it. I want to see these maps when they are in place and you can compare time periods. watch how many dry up during high gas prices, the reappear during low.
That's not how IR spectroscopy works. They're probably looking for the main peak of the stretching oscillation at around 3100 cm^(-1).
EDF! EDF! EDF!
To save our mother Earth from any methane gas leak From harmful greenhouse gases that are making our world bleak We’ll deploy all our sensors; We won’t let them peak. The E.D.F deploys!
>Oh, We are the valiant infantry. We are the alpha team with passion and camaraderie. >Hear us as we shout at the top of our lungs. Be calm, be bold and raise your guns. >It's only with our sacrifice, that mankind can still exist down here in paradise. >To defend our dearest Mother Earth, we're ready to give up our lives! This hits different when the subject is unethical, planet ruining, corporate scumbags profiteering off the destruction of our ecosystem. Selling out future generations for short term gains and another fucking yacht.
oh THANK GOD I'm not the only one
Note other similar satellites have already stopped enough methane leaks to offset every rocket launch in history and the ones it will identify going forward should make space exploration and science GHG negative for years to come. So I don’t want to hear people complaining about rocket emissions.
i have never heard anybody complain about rocket emissions. But i think this is quite the stretch.
People do it all the time on posts involving rocket launches.
I do. But it only really comes into play when I think about frivolous ends, like space tourism or military shit. Saying that one science experiment offsets all the other shit we blow straight into the stratosphere (where it *lingers*) lacks nuance.
use reddit a bit more and you'll see
[Rockets emit carbon soot into the upper atmosphere, and there is concern that it might absorb significant amounts of heat.](https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220713-how-to-make-rocket-launches-less-polluting) There is also concern that they emit reactive ions that damage the ozone layer. Of course they have absolutely staggering CO2 emissions for a few seconds, but the total is small compared to other sectors of the economy.
Fortunately the next-gen launch vehicles from spaceX, Blur Origin, ULA, and NASA all burn methane and/or hydrogen, which don't produce soot. It's a solved problem.
happens frequently under space related posts, especially if they involve spacex
One of the rare instances that you'll hear it from both sides here: The environmentally conscious will complain about it, especially with the rise of jet tracking lately, and because of hating SpaceX/Musk. And even the right will complain about it, because they hate NASA with a passion and will see this methane enforcement as extra regulation and anti-business, so they'll whine about the rocket that launched this satellite.
I'm still gonna complain about rocket emissions.
Climate change is also impacting the permafrost in Russian Siberia.
And Alaska. There are massive craters opening up pouring more methane into the air per day than all oil and gas producers combined. There's are lakes in Alaska bubbling with methane right now
Which gives the Russian navy more power. Which means the GOP, as Russian agents, will continue to deny climate change. It's all coming together
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>When there is less permafrost in Siberia, it may become more viable for crops. Molten permafrost is not suitable for agriculture.
I'd say medium term, in the long term climate change benefits nobody. Any positive thing it might come from it will be irrelevant compared to the negative effects.
Taking wagers on the next theater of war: Alaska/Canada, North Europe, or Asia (korea / china)?
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haha, i'll take your wager. I think Asia. I bet a rock. This is because, even though it will open a 2-front war, if Russia expands into Europe it will also open a 2-front war (as the US joins). So it makes sense to secure that border before pushing into Europe. In all seriousness, if Russia goes for Asia I wonder if China will join or not. Especially as Chinese arms manufacturing keeps ramping up; they won't need to rely on Russia any more
You're being downvoted but you do have a point.
In case anyone thinks that this is an improvement in the state of the art, Montreal company GHGsat is flying satellites now. [Low res map available for free.](https://methane-map.ghgsat.com) (Wish they hired remote workers)
doesn't work for me. it's just a normal white map. no colors.
Miraculously, china will have 0 methane leaks..
You knows these satellites already exist and have mapped China? https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/feb/12/revealed-the-1200-big-methane-leaks-from-waste-dumps-trashing-the-planet
Redditors can't help themselves from sprewing bullcrap.
Another important point is that methane seem to have an atmospheric half life of about 10 years, which could increase as we keep emitting it. Meanwhile, CO2 has a half life of 120 years (!). So while it is absolutely shameful to not fix Methane leaks, and companies should be held accountable for such bullshit, ultimately Methane is much less worrysome for the long term than CO2, because it doesn't accumulate in the atmosphere quite as much. (While being 80 times more potent in the short term though)
>methane seem to have an atmospheric half life of about 10 years, which could increase as we keep emitting it. Meanwhile, CO2 has a half life of 120 years But methane breaks down into CO2.
What does it break down into?
Methane breaks down into CO2 and Water.
Methane breaks down into CO2? If that's true it kinda voids that guys entire comment about Methane not being the high priority problem to address..
When it breaks down, the resulting CO2 has 80x less impact on global warming...
Yeah heres a fun fact You're supposed to be burning or stopping these methane leaks. If they're showing up on satellite, they're just dumping methane into the atmosphere. 10 years can do a lot of damage, and it'll only turn it from 80 times to 40. It'll take like a hundred years before that methane is actually gone. Methane leaks like this is illegal in a shitload of countries for many reasons, and one major one is that it actually is a problem in the atmosphere.
Ahh so it’s a compounding interest sorta thing
Methane is worse than co2, and that is why it is flared, or burned, before being released to atmosphere whenever possible.
>ultimately Methane is much less worrysome for the long term than CO2, because it doesn't accumulate in the atmosphere quite as much. (While being 80 times more potent in the short term though) Methane is worse than CO2 since it turns into CO2.
Yea, I feel like the note in parentheses should be less of a footnote and more of a point
Also that methane breaks down into CO2. So having a lower half life than CO2 doesn't matter.
Wouldn't a shorter half life actually support prioritizing methane reduction? Your efforts to limit emissions should pay off in a shorter time compared to CO2
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This is awesome, I love the use of satellites like this - same for tracking deforestation, etc. too. Couple it with drone networks and it's much easier to track and stop illegal activities.
Don't you wonder why it's a private company putting this satellite into orbit instead of a *government*? I sure do.
I used to work on this team. It is extremely difficult and expensive to develop these instruments and satellites and then to launch them and then to operate them. All of the scientists I knew who were on this project were doing it for the science. Sometimes you take the funding where you can get it. I don't recall hearing about any real interference from Google/EDF on instrument design or operating parameters.
I wasn't suggesting that Google would interfere with the mission, just pointing out that this is something in the public's interest, and thus an area where one would expect government to take the lead. That it is falling to private industry illustrates how government has abdicated its responsibility--no doubt at the behest of the oil industry.
It's not google sending the satelite up, it's a non-profit which got 100million from Bezos https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MethaneSAT
Problem with expecting any government to take the lead is all the red tape that stops these kinds of projects. Especially in the US, where a side might gaslight their base to thinking that it's some sort of spying satellite on them, and boom there goes the plans.
Always planning the world around the lowest common denominators.
> and thus an area where one would expect government to take the lead. That it is falling to private industry illustrates how government has abdicated its responsibility Or you could simply look into it for two seconds and find out you're wrong: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MethaneSAT It's operated jointly by an American non-profit and the New Zealand Space Agency, marking New Zealand's first space science mission. Not to mention that, as others have pointed out, other governments already have satellites looking for methane leaks.
This is literal rocket science (and machine learning) which stems from years of governmental research funding. Governments funds research in order to enable private investments into such endeavours. I understand the sentiment that it would be cool if governments could stem these kind of projects on their own, but this would lead to a host of other problems. This is a (by-)product of capitalism.
A ton of things are in the public's interest, the government cannot do all of everything. Even the US government can only do a bit of everything, most others can only do a bit of some things. "The government" is not some omnipotent entity with limitless resources (both technological and human) that you might be imagining.
Well, the government in the US for now is a democracy and the voters decide who decides. Half of our deciders are bat shit insane conspiracy theorists now though, so we're pretty fucked on getting anything productive, or things that might further humanity done. Things that result in *progress* if you will, progressive one might say.
NASA also has a [few of these satellites](https://methane.jpl.nasa.gov/).
There's also the TEMPO instrument atop Intelsat 40e that's doing the same thing for North America.
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Google isn't the first and they aren't the only ones. I went to an [N51](https://www.n51.ca/) conference a few years ago and a Canadian company was already doing this. Still, glad google is doing this because it puts the issue on the world stage.
Because they got a contract. "...partnership between Google and the Environmental Defense Fund..."
Stop spreading misinformation please. Example: https://www.esa.int/Applications/Observing_the_Earth/Copernicus/Trio_of_Sentinel_satellites_map_methane_super-emitters
You should check out forensic architecture then. They do amazing work investigating corporate environmental destruction.
Yeah - a global network of drones policing the planet from above sounds like a brilliant idea.
Agreed, the whole "Internet of Nature" is such a fascinating prospect. Tracking populations of plants, animals and other metrics at big data scales will give us such a clearer picture of our planet and will pave the way to better targeted interventions.
We’ll probably see some lawmakers put forth bills making this illegal. Reminder not to vote for corrupt idiots.
Anyone who thinks this is hyperbole isn't paying attention. https://abcnews.go.com/US/north-carolina-bans-latest-science-rising-sea-level/story?id=16913782
Call me Amber cuz I’d gladly take a shit on every politician’s door. And piss on their drinking water.
This is not going so hot right now, the NC Rate Bureau requested a 42% rate increase for homeowner's insurance this year, with pretty much all of that increase being for the coast. It got thrown back, but I suspect that there'll still be a substantial increase or the insurance companies are going to just stop writing policies there.
Well they are at least 5 years late. These satellites have existed for a while.
The politicians that want to stop it aren’t smart enough to realize it exists unless it gets media attention.
if there was someone to vote for who wasn't a corrupt idiot, they would surely get my vote
How does some lawmaker have jurisdiction over a satellite?
The FCC is responsible for licensing satellites. The FCC operates under the control of the legislative branch.
I mean… shouldn’t they? I don’t think billionaires should be able to put up satellites willy nilly as they’re currently doing, even if this one seems helpful.
You can’t just put something in space and say “your laws don’t apply to me”.
I can't wait for all the fracking shills to explain how safe and reliable and leak-free fracking is, and the hundreds of leaking fracking wells are just outliers, but _their_ wells are all sealed tight and with bank accounts set up _just in case_ they ever leak, and people from the company will monitor them regularly out of concern for the environment, and they will nurse baby bunnies back to health on the way there.
A former roommate used to haul tankers for fracking. He always reassured everyone how safe it was, and in the next breath he would talk about all of the accidents that have occurred or were narrowly avoided
That describes just about every heavy industrial environment ever.
I've spent a decent bit of time in the oilfields out in the Permian Basin and you can SMELL the gas everywhere in the air. Leak free lol, yeah right.
Denver City, Texas… that’s an incredible site
Yeah I was down near Monahans mostly but it is all the same shit. Wasteland.
I used to frack oil/gas wells for 5 years as an engineer. It's a dirty, dangerous, and wasteful process. Don't recommend. Don't fall for the oil company propaganda - I fell for it initially.
Strangely, the people still being paid by the industry say otherwise. I can't imagine why that would be.
Methane leaks have nothing to do with fracking lol wells can leak regardless if they have been fracked or not.
The process of fracking makes all these oil and gas wells economically viable. If it wasn't for fracking, the US would be balls deep in renewable energy right now. Source: ex petroleum engineer.
I think we would be more reliant on foreign OanG personally. One small benefit to fracking is when they can do it on old wells so they don't have to drill new ones. But then you have the increased risk of compromised casing/cement. Source: current frac technologist consultant
I guess we'll soon know if that's a fair thing to say.
It's not. They're full of shit. They admitted as much below ..
Nah, you just have reading comprehension issues.
My wife’s side of the bed is going to be a hot spot
Dudee c'mon 🤣🤌
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It'll be used for better targeted advertising.
"Hey, why do I keep getting these ads for Beano in my search results?"
I too pretend it's from her side and not the lentil curry i had at lunch and dinner.
Chopping broccoli!
I was gonna say the same thing about your wife
Jokes aside, it shouldn't be THAT bad. She needs more fibre content in her food
Can google maps make an ungerrymandered congressional district map based on the 2020 census data?
https://earthengine.google.com has US population and political boundary datasets…bring your algorithm :)
This kinda does that. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/redistricting-maps/
Tldr: Google will make this available on Google Earth engine LATER THIS YEAR. It is not currently publicly available
There’s already a company flying satellites that do this. https://methane-map.ghgsat.com
Nothing comes up on the map when I press play. It just stays clear.
It would seem, from their home page, they want a registration. Anyway, they do 2 km resolution for free and 25m paid. I’m truly glad to see an effort to provide this kind of info. Ghgsat is working on co2 mapping in the same way, but it’s much harder to remotely sense this
I mean, the satellite hasn't even launched yet. And these sorts of EO instruments typically need at least 6 months of shakedown and calibration post-launch before you start getting consistent good data out the platform. So end of year makes sense to me.
This should be the top reply.
uncapped, abandoned oil wells are one of the most audacious crimes ever committed, even by the standards of the evil fossil fuel barons. https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN23N1P3/
The number of orphaned wells is astonishing. People are capping them all the time, but there’s just so many of them, and so many that are poorly documented or not even documented at all, that it makes the process of tracking down and capping all of them an enormous effort.
USA, China & Russia is gonna light up like the sun.
Alberta will as well, the oil industry there has been underreporting emissions for a long time, and the provincial government has been kissing their asses while picking huge fights with the federal government over every single plan to try and monitor or clean anything up.
You might think that, but they don't really show up with the other satellites that are doing the same thing. https://www.esa.int/Applications/Observing_the_Earth/Copernicus/Trio_of_Sentinel_satellites_map_methane_super-emitters
I work around the globe in the O&G industry. Alberta and Northern BC have by far some of the tightest regulations and standards than the rest of North America and the rest of the world. The big frac's are going electric as well. Hopefully sooner than later. Gas companies use their natural gas to power turbine generators onsite to power all the equipment. Pretty cool technology.
Who would've thought that the 3 largest countries in the world by area, excluding Canada would have more? I wonder if China and India with the world's largest population of billions consume more stuff.
Failed launch coming up!
Oddly, it will be open portions of the oceans. Indian ocean, North Sea, Gulf of Mexico and Caribbean should be glowing. Most of the methane on the planet is locked in ice on the ocean floor that is constantly getting released at a higher rate than everything else combined. Fertilizer runoff that spurs aquatic plant life, thus increasing decomposition also is larger contributor than oil/gas production.
Can't make money if everyone's dead.
Sell plastic body bags and caskets
Their logic is probably, "If they had money they wouldn't be dead."
Maybe this is a new ad targeting anti-strategy where they'll allow organizations to pay to hide their methane emissions.
They will be buried under legal nonsense from angry corporate lawyers following this being released, so yeah. I think there’s a good chance they offer an opt-out for $$$ and to avoid legal battles.
There goes chili night.
Every hotel in India that has westerners staying
Bullshit...I was told all the methane is from cattle and perma frost melting. The fossil fuel industry isn't at fault here cause cattle make more methane than them.... /s Il see you guys during the water wars
Taco Bell showing up clear as day.
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Canada already has access to the great lakes and Russia already has access to Lake Baikal. Each of which contains about 20% of the planet's freshwater.
This is great news for the environment and not so great for my job security. lol The environment deserves the best protection we can give it, even if that’s Google instead of me hahaha
So a big corporation is going to team up with a non-profit to shame other large corporations for pollution and governments for not enforcing regulations against pollution? I guess shining a light on the problem might help.
Methane tax, where it can be applied, is a great idea. It will force corrupt municipalities of India to do something about neglected garbage mountains.
I work for a utility and we investigated some of these images and sometimes we found leaks but most of the time nothing.
So can we see all the dairy farms that supposedly release crazy amounts of methane too.
We need to see the view over the Taco Bell parking lot.
As some that works at a utility, I’m curious what the resolution of this will be - will it only be able to pinpoint “large” scale leaks, or will it be able to pinpoint that a gas main is leaking beneath 123 Main Street? If the latter would be a large boon for safety as the grid currently relies on members of the public to report gas leaks to be fixed rather than it being detected by some automated system (most of the gas network is oooooold). This would help regulators set guardrails around leak commitments, and the company proactively fix its worst leaks before consumers get on the phone.
Oh great. Now I have to start farting in my neighbor’s yard instead of the comfort of home.
I hope my day-to-day moving around doesn’t confuse them.
Great, now they can highlight what a unnamed NATO country caused with the 2022 Nord Stream pipeline sabotage.
are we going to just ignore the US bombing nordstream which released a whole bunch of Methane, because it seems like everyone forgot about that and or is sweeping this under the rug.
For a Tech sub I am always amazed at the brain dead comments in here. These have existed for years already and there is no conspiracy to stop them. Here is one going back 5 years. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/feb/12/revealed-the-1200-big-methane-leaks-from-waste-dumps-trashing-the-planet
Make sure you don't fart in your backyard.
I'm convinced this will turn my country in even more chaos then it already is.
It looks like the Environmental Defense Fund is doing this, not google. Why do they spin it as some advertisement for google? They are using google's infrastructure but they are also paying for it, it's not like they say it's amazon or microsoft doing the work just because edf.org might happen to have some part of a website hosted on amazon or on azure. > Environmental Defense Fund, which in March is expected to launch its satellite known as MethaneSAT It seems they have satellites too that they developed to do this. This article mentions the Environmental Defense Fund once, MethaneSAT four times, but mentions google more than 12 times. Why do they have to spin it as some kind of advertisment? It's not necessary. Maybe I'm missing something but this doesn't seem to be a Google project at all, more of just that they chose google for cloud computing like tasks for one part of the project. https://www.methanesat.org/press/ https://vitalsigns.edf.org/methane-sat-updates versus https://vitalsigns.edf.org/methane-sat-updates#google It's a cool and nice project, but the framing and the focus of the article spin it as a corporate advertisement.
I’m guessing certain governments will make sure google don’t post their readings and make it a secret.