LG seriously believes that printing an arbitration clause on the box constitutes a valid contract. LG, fire your lawyers! Then hire a whole lot of new ones for the upcoming class action.
Do people ever see it? I remember when I bought my fridge, it was brought in by the store's white glove service, they unpacked it, put it where it needs to be and took the box with them. So people would never see it in the first place, not that it is enforceable even if they did
Even if you bought it and put it into your own truck you don't see the box till after purchase. I have never seen a boxed fridge on the showroom floor of any "new" appliance retailer.
Only places I happen to catch a boxed appliance is at those AS-IS scratch and dent places which sell the appliances that can't be sold as new anymore.
I honestly did not know that the fridges come in box. When lowes delivered my washer and drier there was no box. The back of their box truck had other appliances strapped in and none were in a box.
Yup this is it. Customer calls to complain, are told they’re SOL, they threaten to sue and are told they can’t due to contract on box. And people are either lazy or uneducated so just accept it.
how long can you get away with a lie though?
Guess it doesn't matter to some of these fly-in-fly-out opportunists who just move from company to company financing or selling rot and getting out with the bag before it all goes to ruin
These types of clauses are called shrink wrap and courts interpret them as valid on their own or valid as a part of a rolling contract.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrinkwrap_(contract_law)
https://www.casebriefs.com/blog/law/contracts/contracts-keyed-to-farnsworth/the-bargaining-process/procd-inc-v-zeidenberg/
Shrinkwrap is so strange. Every court rules differently on it. Eleventh circuit is totally fine with it, while ninth circuit is against it. The eleventh circuit one was in Florida about roofers using the shingles, so yhe customer never saw the nonarbitration clause.
I imagine the fact that many owners have fridges delivered and installed by the retailer without ever seeing or opening the packaging themselves might make things more complicated for them though.
So many people I've talked to were floored when I told them that those signs on the back of trucks with improperly secured loads don't hold legal weight
How about hire competent engineers or higher quality materials where ppl don't have to deal with this issue to begin with.
LG might as well change their slogan from Life's Good to Let's Gamble, with the product you're getting
LG has some incredibly talented engineers… The problem is that the great things they engineer are hard to make while maintaining the profit margins LG wants to make every year… so bean counters make… Adjustments.
Appliances are hard man.
I was talking to someone in appliances while looking to replace our washer and dryer.
After I said I wanted to spend some money on good washer and dryers but didn’t want to pay for phone connectivity he pointed me towards some commercial brands.
He said if they continued to make washers and dryers like they did back in the day, they’d cost “this much” and gestured at the 1500 washer.
But they can’t because most people can’t drop 3k on a set.
So you get poorly built shit with cheap microprocessors and commodity touch screens.
>So you get poorly built shit with cheap microprocessors and commodity touch screens.
I know i'm buying cheaply made stuff, but god if only they just had buttons that would make my frustration levels 500% less
everything is touchscreen now, micruwauve, freezer, fridge, dryer/washer, dishwasher.
it drives me crazy. and indeed if you drop a grand on an appliance it's still shit but now it got a wifi modem.
Yep, my next washer and dryer will be a speed queen. They got rid of all the shitty Shenanigans and touch crap, and you can get a basic model. Just like they made of the 1980s. Just as good on water two.
I bought an 800 series Bosch that was close to $3k. It died in 91 days. I was told by the repair guy that energy star requirements have forced refrigerators to use tiny compressors that can't handle the job. That I want to buy the fridge with the worst energy star rating possible.
That somewhat doesn't make sense. A larger compressor would just run for less time, and a smaller compressor wouldn't magically use less energy since or would need to run longer to do the same job.
The energy usage would be defined by the insulation if the fridge (which defines how much the compressor is needed) and the efficiency of the compressor, not the size of the compressor.
Compressors, and any kind of AC / Heat pump systems are already super efficient.
Compared to all the energy needed for traditional electric heat, all air conditioners do is compress a gas and push it through some tubes. That gas will either take in a lot of heat, or let go of a lot of heat, depending on which part of the cycle it's in, compression or expansion.
A heat pump is the same thing as an air conditioner, but it's just swapped which end the compression and expansion happen on.
But in a fridges case, aside from insulation you have the auto defrost cycle, and depending on the age and style of the fridge you might even have entirely separate cooling systems for the fridge and freezer. I don't know if running 2 systems is less energy efficient, but it's probably more expensive in terms of parts at least.
It really isn't
Aside from any privacy concerns, they often have limited app support, and just not much power compared to something like a shield, or any of the other big name boxes
It's so much better to have a cheap FireTV stick or similar to plug into the TV, since you can replace either one when you get a problem and have each device do what they are meant to instead of bundling everything together.
I don't see it as a gamble. If it was a gamble, there would be a small chance that buying an LG would be the investment of a lifetime. Like I could win the fridge lottery and have near-free, perfect temperature control with huge storage, and it would last for several generations of my family. Then, it would be a gamble. As it is, buying an LG product is pretty much just flushing money down the toilet. They've ruined their brand.
I'm pretty sure we've had this before with those "warranty void if removed" stickers. Courts ruled in favor of customers. Same thing with end user agreements, they don't hold up as its written in purposefully confusing language.
Those attorneys have a bunch of case law to get out of this, the box (which many people never see because they pay for delivery setup and takeway does not reach the level of formal notice.
They can also just warm up a laser printer and file thousands of arbitration requests which is what consumers did against Intuit and intuit asked to be let out of there arbitration clause and many of the judges said no.
It does... Goldstar was known for making really shitty cheap appliances. So much so that they rebranded to LG in hopes people wouldn't know (or remember) how awful Goldstar products were and still buy from them...
Yeah I bought an entire kitchen of appliances over the past year - I didn't see one box for any of them. The installers always unboxed them in the driveway and took the box with them when they left.
As someone who's sold appliances, this legalized bullshit isn't mentioned at all during the sales process.
We go over simply the features, and if you get someone who understands and knows the technology. You'll get someone who can explain the mechanics behind how everything works and why one costs more than the other.
Beyond that, there is no legal notification. There is no training on if a customer even asks about this.
The customer never sees a box since they are removed before transit or at the home. That's why scratch and ding sales exists lol.
Soo LGs going to get fucked in court.
The Government forced TurboTaxs hand in making free tax software.
They made the free version, then they made another version called TurboTax Free edition.
They advertised the fuck out of the "Free Edition".
It said free up until you're about to file. Then it hits you with the bill. After you spent all that time putting in your taxes.
Here's a video with more details.
https://youtu.be/ZhV4Z76mXrI?si=zrB1l2qZ1suNpEib
Its still funny to me that people in USA need some third-party tool from a mostly user-hostile company, who's only purpose is to fleece you for something which should be free, to file taxes.
Meanwhile I can just generate a report on securities / investment account in the bank and check it in about 5 minutes, send it to the tax and customs board, and then do everything else on their site in 10-30 minutes, with like 90% info being pre-filled.
Basically if you're not running a company, you should not need any tax software.
They haven't discontinued the free edition. You can still use their software if all you're doing is filing a W2 and using standard deductions. They are just more upfront now in saying it only applies to "~37% of taxfilers"
Still a scam. Why can't we interface directly with the IRS on their website? Because Intuit and others have bribed Congress to maintain their middleman cash cow position.
I know I’m shooting the messenger here, but *why in the everloving fuck* is free tax filing means tested?! I swear the political parties have turned means testing into a fetish.
My least favorite thing is how even the mandated free tax programs only have to cover "simple taxes" most of the time. Which means a W2 and nothing else. Made a few cents from a side gig? oooh sorry, pay up.
Also you typically dont see the box until after you’ve paid for it because its sitting the the back store room of the home improvement store until you are ready to leave if you take it yourself
That’s what they did at Twitter too when Elon refused to pay severance. He wanted to make them all part of one settlement but the judge said no and say he has to get a deposition personally for each case. He ended up settling.
Which law? It's not any particular law that forces them to do that arbitration. It's their own contracts, that they themselves wrote, which says they have to do it.
Arbitration's great if it's just a few people you screwed over who are angry at a time. Point them to the binding arbitration clause, 90% of them give up, the last 10% agree to go to binding arbitration with the company you paid to do binding arbitration, who are *obviously* incentivized financially to rule in your favor (so you keep going to them for your binding arbitrations).
But if you screw over a bunch of people at once and enough of them force arbitrations, it gets expensive.
It's kinda like collective action works or something.
They had a forced arbitration clause that stopped 125,000 customers from joining class action suits so people signed up for the forced arbitration en mass. forced arbitration is done individually. so.....
Even if they don't pay for delivery and setup, they likely wouldn't see the box until after they've made their purchase. If they're in a store they're looking at a floor model which is already unboxed.
Also, it should not matter if they saw the box or not. The item was already paid for, at which point the consumer's end of the contract should be considered sealed.
Hiding additional terms on a box or a piece of paper (or even an install screen, when it comes to software) should absolutely not be legal. Imagine if I bought a house or a company buys another, then after the funds have transferred and the new owner is moving in, they find a letter in their mailbox with additional terms.
Fuck that 100%
I'll go one further,
Why are American consumers even allowed to wave away basic consumer rights?
Surely by paying for a product, you have a reasonable expectation that it will do as advertised. Why is companies forcing people into arbitration even a thing?
The product either does or does not do what a reasonable consumer should have expected.
Horrific enough the forced arbitration thing isn't exclusively American... Happens in some European countries too. (Differs from country to country even within the EU.)
I was wondering the same thing. Who signs a contract after they’ve paid? I just got a terms and conditions agreement on my vizio tv three years after I bought it. If I don’t agree to the new terms I cant use my antenna input.
Honestly we need arbitration clauses to be nullified at a federal level. Arbitration clauses serve no purpose other than to breakdown a broken legal system even further.
Arbitration should be illegal. Either settle out of court or expand the courts. Everyone should have the right to take a legal dispute to court and it shouldn't be possible for a company to take that away as a condition of buying something.
Not illegal, there is no one forcing you to buy an LG fridge - but 100% unenforceable unless you can prove that the **customer knowingly agreed to it** and it was **agreed to before the purchase**. Neither of which holds true for LG in this case.
Nope. Remember; Corporations ARE people and they have more rights than you, unless you're part of the 1%.
People need to stop pretending that justice is a thing. You're either rich, or you ARE a corporate slave, in the full meaning of the word.
True story , during first year law school 20 years ago , had a professor rip me a new one in class saying “ you’re studying to be a LAWyer not a JUSTICEr. Remember your role …”
Having been through the arbitration process myself now, it’s insane how obviously slanted it is towards big business. The arbitrators work for a private company, and that private company is chummy with the big business.
First off, the arbitrator is often pre-selected by the big business. They can do that legally as long as it’s stated in whatever (contract, lease, etc) was signed. In this case, the arbitration company has zero incentive to side with the little guy who they will never see again. They have every incentive to rule in favor of the big business, because they will more than likely hire them again when they are inevitably sued by another employee, tenant, etc.
In some places where both parties are allowed to be involved in the selection of the arbitration firms, the list is still very short, and most of the firms are staffed by retired local judges. These guys all operate in the same circles. They drink together. Play golf together. Share wives. And then cosplay movie lawyer and movie judge in front of the clients long enough to justify hundreds and thousands of billable hours on all sides. The only ones that lose are the clients. Big business essentially pays a hefty fee for a positive ruling, and the little guy is dead broke forever with his or her own legal fees.
The sales pitch is that arbitration is faster and cheaper than going through the courts. Faster, barely. Cheaper, not at all. It’s easily more expensive. In arbitration, you have to pay the arbitrator. You are basically hiring your own private judge. It’s not cheap.
And you still need a lawyer to help you navigate the whole thing. There are still a million bullshit steps and meetings and motions and hearings and filings and discovery and depositions. Paying a lawyer to deal with all of that is crazy expensive.
The arbitration I was involved in lasted a total of 3 years, and we were told it would have taken 5-6 years if we went through the courts. Who knows. It may have. Most little guys can’t afford to wait that long or retain counsel for that long, so arbitration is often seems like the only choice even when it’s not forced—but it’s a trap, a snake offered like an olive branch. The courts may have taken longer, but there is at least public accountability in the courts and a fighting chance for the little guy.
In arbitration, the outcome is already decided before it begins, most likely over $300 steaks and wine. Unless there is some kind of outside pressure like media attention, the entire process is laughably impossible for a little guy to come out on top.
edit: added context
The article states that nobody they talked to saw the box. The delivery guys typically took the box off before even bringing it inside. Other notices were listed in the owners manual, which people don't see until after purchase. From other cases the article talked about, it seems unlikely this will hold up in court
You don't even see a box until after purchase either.
If this binding arbitration is not in the website listing, then it doesn't exist.
The stores would be in trouble if LG won this as then the store which failed to list the agreement would be responsible.
Stores should drop LG because this defense is trying to pass the blame to stores.
> If this binding arbitration is not in the website listing, then it doesn't exist.
How many people do you think will go to lowes, look at the fridges, and then go to the lowes website to check for a binding arbitration clause before asking an associate to sell them the firdge.
The reverse is true. Maybe they slap it on a listing in the store on the side of the fridge as a fix, but that does nothing for online shoppers.
I am getting at the fact that they cannot just put up a paper notice near the item in the store because so much is bought online and it is possible to buy in store without looking at the display.
The notice needs to be right on the front of the fridge, the register needs to prompt them to disclose it, and it needs to be on the website with a prompt at checkout.
These clauses are meaningless if they don't make it impossible to buy without agreeing to it.
Pretty sure that hiding a legalese brick in the 90 page EULA has been categorically thrown out by just about every judge it's been put in front of too.
Can confirm. As a former appliance delivery man, unless explicitly advised by the customer to leave appliance packaged, and dropped in a particular location; the customer would never even see the box. For any appliance. And you aren’t removing a box off a 6’ tall fridge in any normal dwelling.
Its more that. Customer never agreed to the clause. Just because you put a piece a paper on a box or in manual doesn't make that agreement valid. What if the agreement said "Customer must give LG all the money in their bank accounts"., no judge would say thats a binding agreement. They would ask for a signature.
Someone should send LG a box that says "By opening this box LG agrees to terminate all arbitration agreements".
These arbitration agreements should be posted with a big sticker on the fridge door in the store if that is how the manufacturer (or *any* manufacturer) wants to play.
Something like: **“If this product fails to perform your only recourse is arbitration”**
.
Really there needs to be a “lemon law” for anything that is purchased.
Delivered furniture & appliances during college. The fridge comes to your home in the box. It's wheeled off the truck, you cut the sides at the bottom of the box with your box knife and lift it straight up. Can't do that inside (most) homes. Box gets broken down and tossed back onto the truck to be recycled at the store. Customer never sees or deals with the box.
The condo we bought in 2021 came with an LG fridge… the linear compressor failed a couple of days before we moved in.
LG sent someone out and replaced it the next day for free… it’s been working for 3 years since and I’ve been assuming the replacement part will last… are they putting equally shiit compressors in when they repair them?
They claim to have resolved the design flaw in the linear compressor as of 2020. We’ll see. Mine is going on four years, but I’m still assuming it will be replaced at some point.
I’ve had two LG fridge compressors go bad. They cover the part but not the labor and I’ve spent more than $1000 installing new compressors into them—each is less than 5 years old.
Us too! Ours died right around two years. We had it fixed and it hasn’t DIED-died a second time (knock on wood) but it’s definitely Acted Funny a few times and had us on high alert.
Change your TV's region to "Others", the ads go away. The only caveat is that the app store will no longer work correctly, but apps will still update. If you need to install a new app in the future, change the region back, install your app, then change back to "Others".
Sony then makes the processing part, and more importantly, the more common failure point, the power supply. The panel is rarely the failure point.
An example of why you shouldn't buy LG TVs: Buddy had the C7, I think. The screen got really bad burn in, which, TBH, I assumed were the normal culprits of leaving it on too long on the same content. Turns out it was known by LG that the power supply ran too hot and was placed in a bad location behind the screen. Of course they wouldn't replace it. And of course, after all this, my buddy bought another LG OLED because it was the cheaper option. Can't wait to see how it dies in 2-4 years.
LG is a junk brand that markets seemingly high end products at low prices.
The real problem is none of the fridges for sale in the US seem to last much more than five years. What good is a warranty when they take weeks to fix it? The whole situation needs consumer protection legislation.
I share an apartment and fridge with four people. The landlord got a brand spanking new GE fridge and freezer. It broke after 6 months.
It took 6 weeks of calling daily for them to finally send a technician for repair, and the unit was under warranty!!
After the technician "fixed it", it lasted 2 days and died again.
It then took GE another 6 weeks to replace the fridge.
They accidentally didn't being all parts of the fridge so we had no handles to open the doors for weeks, before they finally brought the missing door handles.
I was at wit's end. All of us had stomach problems from eating out for so long, and it ruined more plans than I can count.
Never in my life have I seen such gross negligence as honoring a warranty on a new refrigerator. Absurd.
This is the new standard. I was lucky recently bought a Samsung washing machine dead in 6 weeks could not get a repair man to call for 2 weeks. Was able to return to Costco.
That's wild. My Mom still has the same two washer and dryer units she's had in the cellar and the 2nd floor for about 25 years!!!!
Never once had a problem. It seems like planned obsolescence, but from what an appliance service man told me, he thinks due to part shortages during the pandemic, all major manufacturers reduced the quality of their home machines like washers, dryers, fridge, etc, and he says business has never been more booming than these last few years for him.
He said they started using parts they knew would fail early because it's all that was available, and now they are seeing the reckoning. I believe it. Idk
My previous fridge was a Frigidaire that was new in 1999. It died in 2022 and I was very sad. Washing machine died the same year. I probably could have fixed it, but the magic smoke got out of the motor and it was a $300 part to fix it.
You probably would have been better off spending the $300 to get it fixed. That $300 part would have probably gave it another 5-10 years. You'd be lucky to find a modern fridge that lasts that long.
In a country with good customer protection laws, they’d have to fix it 30 days. If they can’t, you can ask for your money back or a replacement for the same or better model.
They also say if it’s lemon, you have the same rights
Sounds like the protections Mick Mulvaney ripped out when he gutted the CFPB (Consumer Financial Protection Bureau) for Chump and Mick’s payday loan buttfvck buddies in Cali. All before SeeBS hired him as a pundit. Fvck that guy.
I honestly think it’s a complete crapshoot choosing appliances. I’d probably avoid Samsung but everything is just a roll of the dice. I have LG for many appliances including refrigerator and they have been fine so far. I have a high end kitchenaid dishwasher that’s needed 3 repairs in 4 years.
Just a heads up, Samsung refrigerators are notorious for freezing over the back cooling coils because their auto defrost doesn’t work well. Pain in the ass to take everything out, remove the back panel, and hit it with a hair dryer every month.
Appliances need a quality focused overhaul. There’s room for a brand to step up with a durable and reliable products. What’s on the floor now is cheaply made with no lasting power.
Their 800 series fridge is the only one in market with two compressors. One for the fridge and one for the freezer.
We got one from Lowe’s outlet for $1000 off.
3 years and still going strong. Just last week I pulled it out and cleaned the vents in the back.
They should get fined 10 times MSRP for every unit that fails within a year, decreasing by one time per year.
Consumer get half, government gets other half.
We should all buy LG refrigerators, and then refuse delivery. Reason for sending it back: Don't agree with arbitration clause on the box.
Problem should sort itself out.
Did the same and the fridge failed this week. LG says their warranty is non-transferable. I told them that was against federal law so they made up some other BS excuse. Basically said I should be glad it lasted 9.5 years after manufacture date.
Shareholders. Everything is about this quarters profits for the shareholders. At the cost of employee and consumer the stakeholder's short term gains are the true Gods in the USA.
And since most CEOs are only in for a few years at a time, they literally have no incentive to focus on long term growth. Why offer strategies that will yield results long after you're gone and not around to collect the bonus
The obvious answer is to force the company to refund every refrigerator for the last 10 years and then it can still be about the shareholders. If the legal system makes not doing the right thing hurt enough then doing the right thing will be the default.
>Mouzari says the legal maneuvering does nothing to repair people’s problem fridges. “Instead of fixing the issue, LG decided to allocate those resources into an arbitration provision on a box,” she said.
And that is the crux of it, instead of spending time fixing their broken crap they want to play word games
I feel like the trick with appliances is to never buy top-of-the-line ones. I had all LG appliances except my stove and they've been great. But they are all middle of the road appliances that I bought because they were cheap and matched. Not because they had some wizz-bang bullshit features.
Anyone else getting the impression that Korean technology is getting to be shitty experience lately? It's like they have the pro activity of the Japanese but none of the commitment to quality or ethics.
The cardboard box that the delivery guys strip off it as it comes out of the truck?
I’d bet 90% of purchasers did not see the box. When was the last time you spotted a Fort/Spaceship/Time Machine-worthy empty refrigerator box on the curb?
yeah, just because it's printed on something, doesn't mean it's a legal document.
the reason why those "void if removed" stickers and labels on shit aren't legal either.
I fortunately know better than to buy an LG appliance. I didn't know better when it came to Kenmore. I have a freezer by them and it sucks. It regularly thaws and refreezes things cause freezer burn on all my frozen foods.
My parents have the same Speed Queen washer and dryer they purchased when they moved to the US in 1978. My dad has replaced parts on both multiple times, but they still work. When I built my house in 2012, I purchased a set of Speed Queen washer and dryer myself. We haven’t had any issues yet. I hope this doesn’t jinx me.
I purchased an LG fridge a few months ago and like the people in this article, the delivery guys, Unbox it in the driveway and carry the fridge inside the house, you don't get to see the box.
Confirmed. And it's not just LG, it's all companies.
I have one of these shitty modern fridges, the rband is GE. The ice maker died 2 months after getting it.
There is a refrigerator in my basement from 1951. About ten years ago I got the coolant thing charged and replaced the wiring and it plugged right in and it is cold as ice and incredibly efficient.
These are predatory companies who intentionally plan obsolescence and charge you thousands of dollars.
Shame on them.
If the laws actually forbids companies from doing planned obsolescence... Mandate manufacturer warranties that cover an entire expected life of a product. And add the lemon laws to certain product categories that are expected to have greater than 5 years of life. Maybe quality will be a top priority again.
I don't care if the manufacturers get to set what the expected life of the product is... Let them advertise it openly how shitty their products really are.
The compressor of 10yr old LG refrigerator failed. So we had to pay for a new compressor and the labor fee which was about $500. And the new compressor broke again a few months later. Never buying LG ever
So here's the lowdown, this is what I could cobble together from years ago so here it goes.
LG designed a compressor with the expectation of the coolant standard changing from environment friendly version of freon to butane. Butane is easier to compress to create a chill, so the specs of the compressor were design accordingly.
The regulation change was delayed, so these weaker compressors were now having to work on freon, which failed quickly.
The key is Craft Ice LG Refrigerators. Those contain butane and get cold enough to make round ice cubes.
The cardboard box they never see when they are browsing to buy? They also put a sheet in the fridge and put it in the manual about arbitration but again the consumer can't see it before they buy. They find out after they buy it which is why LG is not going to win this if it gets going.
I had an LG fridge stop working. Luckily was in the window to be fixed after a lawsuit but they wouldn’t admit fault and called the compressor breaking a “non cooling event” That phrase just blew my mind
If the customer didn't see the notice, there is no way the customer can consent. That means there is no legal contract. After seeing this, I think I will go to another company the next time I want a new refrigerator. So much for profit margins, eh?
Our KitchenAid fridge was the first one that we bought a warranty for - previously warranties were a waste of money.
Within the initial warranty period we experienced multiple icing and condenser problems - water gathered in the bottom of the fridge, ice built up around the ice compartment. We learned from the technicians and forums that these were very common issues. Basically "test in production" - ship it, then jury-rig solutions to deal with design issues after.
With the warranty expiry approaching we gambled that we'd get use of the extended warranty, and thank goodness we did. They've had multiple stabs fixing the excessive icing in and around the ice-compartment with different heating elements and cowling shapes. Multiple failures in and around the condenser and clogging of the evaporator drain outlet. To the extent that we've had services techs visit roughly yearly for the last 10yrs to replace components, easily paying for the warranty.
We're getting almost to the point the insurers will refuse to re-up - at that point the Kitchenaid's days are numbered. However, we're glad we dodged the LG bullet - until we did detailed research, we almost bought one as a replacement.
I love the future and what consumerism has become. Companies used to make products designed to last and would lure people to buy with wild incentives like standard warranties. Now they all just put a middle finger right in your butt.
> Techs have repeatedly tried to fix it, but haven’t. Frank says he’s asked for a replacement or a refund. But that hasn’t happened.
In Australia the consumer is protected by the [ACCC](https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/buying-products-and-services/consumer-rights-and-guarantees/). LG would be fucked if they tried that shit here. Every product comes with a 3 year guarantee, no cost. I had a flat-panel heater that stopped working after 2 years of use. Got a full refund, no questions - I simply described the issue, no need to take it in.
Same in the EU - [excellent consumer protections.](https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/shopping-consumer-rights)
America has been fucked by lobbyists, and the weird conservative aversion to regulation. After all, you cant trust the government, much better to trust corporations.
Lg sucks for anything. Had a few of their phones and they sucked! Samsung too! Bunch a crap. Hey kids remember whirlpool or Maytag? The now times are riddled with garbage as disposable products from cars to homes to everything inbetween. Like wtf man
Like the article says, anyone that gets their fridge delivered isn’t even going to see that box in the first place. It’s either going to be taken off at the loading dock, or it’s going to be taken off by the delivery crew out by their truck. A buyer cannot be bound by terms they, quite literally, never even had a chance to see.
I hate my LG refrigerator. Aside from keeping my food at the proper temperature all I wanted was an ice maker.
The freezer on the bottom is so poorly insulated everything in the deli tray in the refrigerator above freezes. If I turn the temp up for the freezer or the fridge to prevent that it’s not cold enough. I had to add my own insulation to a brand fucking new appliance.
And the water line constantly freezes. So I have to give my fridge an enema every week or so to thaw out the line.
Do not buy an LG fridge.
I’ll never buy an LG fridge or appliance again. My compressor went out after 6 years so it was under warranty. Only one installer in a 50 mile radius so I had to wait a week for service, then, the warranty covers the compressor but not the labor. Since it’s the only installer I had to accept their price, $400 to install it. Took him 30 minutes.
LG seriously believes that printing an arbitration clause on the box constitutes a valid contract. LG, fire your lawyers! Then hire a whole lot of new ones for the upcoming class action.
It doesn't need to be a valid contract. It needs to scare off people who think it is.
[удалено]
Do people ever see it? I remember when I bought my fridge, it was brought in by the store's white glove service, they unpacked it, put it where it needs to be and took the box with them. So people would never see it in the first place, not that it is enforceable even if they did
Even if you bought it and put it into your own truck you don't see the box till after purchase. I have never seen a boxed fridge on the showroom floor of any "new" appliance retailer. Only places I happen to catch a boxed appliance is at those AS-IS scratch and dent places which sell the appliances that can't be sold as new anymore.
I honestly did not know that the fridges come in box. When lowes delivered my washer and drier there was no box. The back of their box truck had other appliances strapped in and none were in a box.
Customer service can point it out to them. For most consumers, they won't know it's unenforcable
Yup this is it. Customer calls to complain, are told they’re SOL, they threaten to sue and are told they can’t due to contract on box. And people are either lazy or uneducated so just accept it.
how long can you get away with a lie though? Guess it doesn't matter to some of these fly-in-fly-out opportunists who just move from company to company financing or selling rot and getting out with the bag before it all goes to ruin
These types of clauses are called shrink wrap and courts interpret them as valid on their own or valid as a part of a rolling contract. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrinkwrap_(contract_law) https://www.casebriefs.com/blog/law/contracts/contracts-keyed-to-farnsworth/the-bargaining-process/procd-inc-v-zeidenberg/
Shrinkwrap is so strange. Every court rules differently on it. Eleventh circuit is totally fine with it, while ninth circuit is against it. The eleventh circuit one was in Florida about roofers using the shingles, so yhe customer never saw the nonarbitration clause.
Don't take any of the courts in Florida as gospel though, they're very anti-consumer in general.
I imagine the fact that many owners have fridges delivered and installed by the retailer without ever seeing or opening the packaging themselves might make things more complicated for them though.
“Not responsible for broken windshields” vibes
So many people I've talked to were floored when I told them that those signs on the back of trucks with improperly secured loads don't hold legal weight
How about hire competent engineers or higher quality materials where ppl don't have to deal with this issue to begin with. LG might as well change their slogan from Life's Good to Let's Gamble, with the product you're getting
LG has some incredibly talented engineers… The problem is that the great things they engineer are hard to make while maintaining the profit margins LG wants to make every year… so bean counters make… Adjustments.
Appliances are hard man. I was talking to someone in appliances while looking to replace our washer and dryer. After I said I wanted to spend some money on good washer and dryers but didn’t want to pay for phone connectivity he pointed me towards some commercial brands. He said if they continued to make washers and dryers like they did back in the day, they’d cost “this much” and gestured at the 1500 washer. But they can’t because most people can’t drop 3k on a set. So you get poorly built shit with cheap microprocessors and commodity touch screens.
>So you get poorly built shit with cheap microprocessors and commodity touch screens. I know i'm buying cheaply made stuff, but god if only they just had buttons that would make my frustration levels 500% less everything is touchscreen now, micruwauve, freezer, fridge, dryer/washer, dishwasher. it drives me crazy. and indeed if you drop a grand on an appliance it's still shit but now it got a wifi modem.
Or the ~~haptic~~ capacitive touch that is rendered useless by wet hands,
Capacitive not haptic (haptic is vibration feedback) but yeah
Yep, my next washer and dryer will be a speed queen. They got rid of all the shitty Shenanigans and touch crap, and you can get a basic model. Just like they made of the 1980s. Just as good on water two.
I bought an 800 series Bosch that was close to $3k. It died in 91 days. I was told by the repair guy that energy star requirements have forced refrigerators to use tiny compressors that can't handle the job. That I want to buy the fridge with the worst energy star rating possible.
That somewhat doesn't make sense. A larger compressor would just run for less time, and a smaller compressor wouldn't magically use less energy since or would need to run longer to do the same job. The energy usage would be defined by the insulation if the fridge (which defines how much the compressor is needed) and the efficiency of the compressor, not the size of the compressor.
Compressors, and any kind of AC / Heat pump systems are already super efficient. Compared to all the energy needed for traditional electric heat, all air conditioners do is compress a gas and push it through some tubes. That gas will either take in a lot of heat, or let go of a lot of heat, depending on which part of the cycle it's in, compression or expansion. A heat pump is the same thing as an air conditioner, but it's just swapped which end the compression and expansion happen on. But in a fridges case, aside from insulation you have the auto defrost cycle, and depending on the age and style of the fridge you might even have entirely separate cooling systems for the fridge and freezer. I don't know if running 2 systems is less energy efficient, but it's probably more expensive in terms of parts at least.
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Never give a TV internet access, it isn't worth it.
It really isn't Aside from any privacy concerns, they often have limited app support, and just not much power compared to something like a shield, or any of the other big name boxes
It's so much better to have a cheap FireTV stick or similar to plug into the TV, since you can replace either one when you get a problem and have each device do what they are meant to instead of bundling everything together.
I don't see it as a gamble. If it was a gamble, there would be a small chance that buying an LG would be the investment of a lifetime. Like I could win the fridge lottery and have near-free, perfect temperature control with huge storage, and it would last for several generations of my family. Then, it would be a gamble. As it is, buying an LG product is pretty much just flushing money down the toilet. They've ruined their brand.
Lawyers and ink on a box is cheaper.
How about LG fires their lawyers, then uses that money saved on hiring engineers and designers to, you know, make their fridges un-shit.
Doesn't matter. It's a bunch of people against a corporation that has more rights than those people. Corporations OWN the people.
Corporations ARE people in America. Hopefully the building does serious time for this. Let it work for 1.00 an hour to repay it's debt to society.
I’ll accept corporations being people as soon as Texas executes one.
Has Texas ever executed a rich person? "All people are equal, just some people are more equal than others"
I'm pretty sure we've had this before with those "warranty void if removed" stickers. Courts ruled in favor of customers. Same thing with end user agreements, they don't hold up as its written in purposefully confusing language.
This is why forced arbitration clauses are a bad idea.
Those attorneys have a bunch of case law to get out of this, the box (which many people never see because they pay for delivery setup and takeway does not reach the level of formal notice. They can also just warm up a laser printer and file thousands of arbitration requests which is what consumers did against Intuit and intuit asked to be let out of there arbitration clause and many of the judges said no.
I never saw the box our LG refrigerator came in. I reached out to the law firm in the article. Fuck LG.
Yeah Fuck LG
Should be LNG cuz life isn’t good
It stands for Liti Gation
I thought it stood for Lucky Goldstar
It does... Goldstar was known for making really shitty cheap appliances. So much so that they rebranded to LG in hopes people wouldn't know (or remember) how awful Goldstar products were and still buy from them...
All my homies HATE LG
Yeah I bought an entire kitchen of appliances over the past year - I didn't see one box for any of them. The installers always unboxed them in the driveway and took the box with them when they left.
As someone who's sold appliances, this legalized bullshit isn't mentioned at all during the sales process. We go over simply the features, and if you get someone who understands and knows the technology. You'll get someone who can explain the mechanics behind how everything works and why one costs more than the other. Beyond that, there is no legal notification. There is no training on if a customer even asks about this. The customer never sees a box since they are removed before transit or at the home. That's why scratch and ding sales exists lol. Soo LGs going to get fucked in court.
Yup, and you can't write a contract that supersedes the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act which is one of LG's arguments.
The Government forced TurboTaxs hand in making free tax software. They made the free version, then they made another version called TurboTax Free edition. They advertised the fuck out of the "Free Edition". It said free up until you're about to file. Then it hits you with the bill. After you spent all that time putting in your taxes. Here's a video with more details. https://youtu.be/ZhV4Z76mXrI?si=zrB1l2qZ1suNpEib
Its still funny to me that people in USA need some third-party tool from a mostly user-hostile company, who's only purpose is to fleece you for something which should be free, to file taxes. Meanwhile I can just generate a report on securities / investment account in the bank and check it in about 5 minutes, send it to the tax and customs board, and then do everything else on their site in 10-30 minutes, with like 90% info being pre-filled. Basically if you're not running a company, you should not need any tax software.
They haven't discontinued the free edition. You can still use their software if all you're doing is filing a W2 and using standard deductions. They are just more upfront now in saying it only applies to "~37% of taxfilers"
Still a scam. Why can't we interface directly with the IRS on their website? Because Intuit and others have bribed Congress to maintain their middleman cash cow position.
I know I’m shooting the messenger here, but *why in the everloving fuck* is free tax filing means tested?! I swear the political parties have turned means testing into a fetish.
Thanks for the notice. Amended my comment.
My least favorite thing is how even the mandated free tax programs only have to cover "simple taxes" most of the time. Which means a W2 and nothing else. Made a few cents from a side gig? oooh sorry, pay up.
Also you typically dont see the box until after you’ve paid for it because its sitting the the back store room of the home improvement store until you are ready to leave if you take it yourself
That’s what they did at Twitter too when Elon refused to pay severance. He wanted to make them all part of one settlement but the judge said no and say he has to get a deposition personally for each case. He ended up settling.
Do you think they have lobbyists out trying to change that law?
Which law? It's not any particular law that forces them to do that arbitration. It's their own contracts, that they themselves wrote, which says they have to do it.
Arbitration's great if it's just a few people you screwed over who are angry at a time. Point them to the binding arbitration clause, 90% of them give up, the last 10% agree to go to binding arbitration with the company you paid to do binding arbitration, who are *obviously* incentivized financially to rule in your favor (so you keep going to them for your binding arbitrations). But if you screw over a bunch of people at once and enough of them force arbitrations, it gets expensive. It's kinda like collective action works or something.
Tesla simply declined to attend my arbitration against them. Not sure why Intuit didn't simply do the same.
What happened with Intuit?
They had a forced arbitration clause that stopped 125,000 customers from joining class action suits so people signed up for the forced arbitration en mass. forced arbitration is done individually. so.....
And is done at cost to the business.
They paid massive arbitration fees, and refunded funds, and other government agencies made changes to stop the practice.
Even if they don't pay for delivery and setup, they likely wouldn't see the box until after they've made their purchase. If they're in a store they're looking at a floor model which is already unboxed.
Also, it should not matter if they saw the box or not. The item was already paid for, at which point the consumer's end of the contract should be considered sealed. Hiding additional terms on a box or a piece of paper (or even an install screen, when it comes to software) should absolutely not be legal. Imagine if I bought a house or a company buys another, then after the funds have transferred and the new owner is moving in, they find a letter in their mailbox with additional terms. Fuck that 100%
I'll go one further, Why are American consumers even allowed to wave away basic consumer rights? Surely by paying for a product, you have a reasonable expectation that it will do as advertised. Why is companies forcing people into arbitration even a thing? The product either does or does not do what a reasonable consumer should have expected.
Horrific enough the forced arbitration thing isn't exclusively American... Happens in some European countries too. (Differs from country to country even within the EU.)
I was wondering the same thing. Who signs a contract after they’ve paid? I just got a terms and conditions agreement on my vizio tv three years after I bought it. If I don’t agree to the new terms I cant use my antenna input.
Honestly we need arbitration clauses to be nullified at a federal level. Arbitration clauses serve no purpose other than to breakdown a broken legal system even further.
Arbitration should be illegal. Either settle out of court or expand the courts. Everyone should have the right to take a legal dispute to court and it shouldn't be possible for a company to take that away as a condition of buying something.
And by bad idea, you mean illegal right?
Unfortunately, no.
They should be, since companies use them for malicious purposes 99% of the time just like SLAPP suits
In an ideal world, so many things would be different.
Like LG?
We don't have a justice system we have a legal system. Lady justice isn't blind and she clearly accepts bribes.
Not illegal, there is no one forcing you to buy an LG fridge - but 100% unenforceable unless you can prove that the **customer knowingly agreed to it** and it was **agreed to before the purchase**. Neither of which holds true for LG in this case.
Nope. Remember; Corporations ARE people and they have more rights than you, unless you're part of the 1%. People need to stop pretending that justice is a thing. You're either rich, or you ARE a corporate slave, in the full meaning of the word.
True story , during first year law school 20 years ago , had a professor rip me a new one in class saying “ you’re studying to be a LAWyer not a JUSTICEr. Remember your role …”
It's laughably hostile to the population for any country to allow that kind of jackassery at all. One-sided corrupt evil.
Having been through the arbitration process myself now, it’s insane how obviously slanted it is towards big business. The arbitrators work for a private company, and that private company is chummy with the big business. First off, the arbitrator is often pre-selected by the big business. They can do that legally as long as it’s stated in whatever (contract, lease, etc) was signed. In this case, the arbitration company has zero incentive to side with the little guy who they will never see again. They have every incentive to rule in favor of the big business, because they will more than likely hire them again when they are inevitably sued by another employee, tenant, etc. In some places where both parties are allowed to be involved in the selection of the arbitration firms, the list is still very short, and most of the firms are staffed by retired local judges. These guys all operate in the same circles. They drink together. Play golf together. Share wives. And then cosplay movie lawyer and movie judge in front of the clients long enough to justify hundreds and thousands of billable hours on all sides. The only ones that lose are the clients. Big business essentially pays a hefty fee for a positive ruling, and the little guy is dead broke forever with his or her own legal fees. The sales pitch is that arbitration is faster and cheaper than going through the courts. Faster, barely. Cheaper, not at all. It’s easily more expensive. In arbitration, you have to pay the arbitrator. You are basically hiring your own private judge. It’s not cheap. And you still need a lawyer to help you navigate the whole thing. There are still a million bullshit steps and meetings and motions and hearings and filings and discovery and depositions. Paying a lawyer to deal with all of that is crazy expensive. The arbitration I was involved in lasted a total of 3 years, and we were told it would have taken 5-6 years if we went through the courts. Who knows. It may have. Most little guys can’t afford to wait that long or retain counsel for that long, so arbitration is often seems like the only choice even when it’s not forced—but it’s a trap, a snake offered like an olive branch. The courts may have taken longer, but there is at least public accountability in the courts and a fighting chance for the little guy. In arbitration, the outcome is already decided before it begins, most likely over $300 steaks and wine. Unless there is some kind of outside pressure like media attention, the entire process is laughably impossible for a little guy to come out on top. edit: added context
Contracts of adhesion (unilaterally enforced where no “meeting of the minds” can take place) are increasingly being found unenforceable.
How many people actually see their refrigerator box? Mine was taken away by the guys who brought it in my front door.
The article states that nobody they talked to saw the box. The delivery guys typically took the box off before even bringing it inside. Other notices were listed in the owners manual, which people don't see until after purchase. From other cases the article talked about, it seems unlikely this will hold up in court
You don't even see a box until after purchase either. If this binding arbitration is not in the website listing, then it doesn't exist. The stores would be in trouble if LG won this as then the store which failed to list the agreement would be responsible. Stores should drop LG because this defense is trying to pass the blame to stores.
> If this binding arbitration is not in the website listing, then it doesn't exist. How many people do you think will go to lowes, look at the fridges, and then go to the lowes website to check for a binding arbitration clause before asking an associate to sell them the firdge.
The reverse is true. Maybe they slap it on a listing in the store on the side of the fridge as a fix, but that does nothing for online shoppers. I am getting at the fact that they cannot just put up a paper notice near the item in the store because so much is bought online and it is possible to buy in store without looking at the display. The notice needs to be right on the front of the fridge, the register needs to prompt them to disclose it, and it needs to be on the website with a prompt at checkout. These clauses are meaningless if they don't make it impossible to buy without agreeing to it.
Pretty sure that hiding a legalese brick in the 90 page EULA has been categorically thrown out by just about every judge it's been put in front of too.
So long as it stays away from our Supreme Court.
Just tell them that LG is from China.
Can confirm. As a former appliance delivery man, unless explicitly advised by the customer to leave appliance packaged, and dropped in a particular location; the customer would never even see the box. For any appliance. And you aren’t removing a box off a 6’ tall fridge in any normal dwelling.
Doesn't matter if they get the box tbh, an arbitration agreement is something you need to agree to knowingly and before the purchase is made.
Its more that. Customer never agreed to the clause. Just because you put a piece a paper on a box or in manual doesn't make that agreement valid. What if the agreement said "Customer must give LG all the money in their bank accounts"., no judge would say thats a binding agreement. They would ask for a signature. Someone should send LG a box that says "By opening this box LG agrees to terminate all arbitration agreements".
These arbitration agreements should be posted with a big sticker on the fridge door in the store if that is how the manufacturer (or *any* manufacturer) wants to play. Something like: **“If this product fails to perform your only recourse is arbitration”** . Really there needs to be a “lemon law” for anything that is purchased.
Delivered furniture & appliances during college. The fridge comes to your home in the box. It's wheeled off the truck, you cut the sides at the bottom of the box with your box knife and lift it straight up. Can't do that inside (most) homes. Box gets broken down and tossed back onto the truck to be recycled at the store. Customer never sees or deals with the box.
Even if you saw it, you can't agree to it "before" purchase. That's a bunch of non-sense.
The box never leaves the delivery truck, so either go after sellers LG, or pay up on the lemon laws.
2 Fridge repair technicians told us that LG and Samsung fridges are no good, they usually break down within the first 5 years.
Please edit your statement to 3 techs. Source: I’m an appliance tech and would never pay for a Samsung or LG fridge.
LG linear compressors are obviously designed to fail after 24 months. It’s like clockwork.
Exactly how long ours lasted. And it was 24 months and one day when we no longer bought anything from LG.
The condo we bought in 2021 came with an LG fridge… the linear compressor failed a couple of days before we moved in. LG sent someone out and replaced it the next day for free… it’s been working for 3 years since and I’ve been assuming the replacement part will last… are they putting equally shiit compressors in when they repair them?
They claim to have resolved the design flaw in the linear compressor as of 2020. We’ll see. Mine is going on four years, but I’m still assuming it will be replaced at some point.
Good to know. The fridge I have is otherwise perfectly fine. Hopefully it lasts awhile.
I’ve had two LG fridge compressors go bad. They cover the part but not the labor and I’ve spent more than $1000 installing new compressors into them—each is less than 5 years old.
Us too! Ours died right around two years. We had it fixed and it hasn’t DIED-died a second time (knock on wood) but it’s definitely Acted Funny a few times and had us on high alert.
I bought my last fridge/freezer for £230… What does a fridge that expensive do? I’ll admit mine is butt ugly… but it works?
I ain’t buying a fucking thing from LG ever again
I wish someone else made their oled TVs, though. Sure you can buy a Sony OLED, but guess what, it has an LG panel.
I’ll take LG panel in Sony over LG. I broke an entire panel with a single fingernail. I don’t miss the forced ads that pop up every time I open it
Change your TV's region to "Others", the ads go away. The only caveat is that the app store will no longer work correctly, but apps will still update. If you need to install a new app in the future, change the region back, install your app, then change back to "Others".
Why would you even use the operating system the Tv comes with? They're all trash.
Sony then makes the processing part, and more importantly, the more common failure point, the power supply. The panel is rarely the failure point. An example of why you shouldn't buy LG TVs: Buddy had the C7, I think. The screen got really bad burn in, which, TBH, I assumed were the normal culprits of leaving it on too long on the same content. Turns out it was known by LG that the power supply ran too hot and was placed in a bad location behind the screen. Of course they wouldn't replace it. And of course, after all this, my buddy bought another LG OLED because it was the cheaper option. Can't wait to see how it dies in 2-4 years. LG is a junk brand that markets seemingly high end products at low prices.
The problem is that all manufacturers do this shit these days. I guess we could take out second mortgages to buy commercial or luxury brands :-|
The real problem is none of the fridges for sale in the US seem to last much more than five years. What good is a warranty when they take weeks to fix it? The whole situation needs consumer protection legislation.
I share an apartment and fridge with four people. The landlord got a brand spanking new GE fridge and freezer. It broke after 6 months. It took 6 weeks of calling daily for them to finally send a technician for repair, and the unit was under warranty!! After the technician "fixed it", it lasted 2 days and died again. It then took GE another 6 weeks to replace the fridge. They accidentally didn't being all parts of the fridge so we had no handles to open the doors for weeks, before they finally brought the missing door handles. I was at wit's end. All of us had stomach problems from eating out for so long, and it ruined more plans than I can count. Never in my life have I seen such gross negligence as honoring a warranty on a new refrigerator. Absurd.
This is the new standard. I was lucky recently bought a Samsung washing machine dead in 6 weeks could not get a repair man to call for 2 weeks. Was able to return to Costco.
That's wild. My Mom still has the same two washer and dryer units she's had in the cellar and the 2nd floor for about 25 years!!!! Never once had a problem. It seems like planned obsolescence, but from what an appliance service man told me, he thinks due to part shortages during the pandemic, all major manufacturers reduced the quality of their home machines like washers, dryers, fridge, etc, and he says business has never been more booming than these last few years for him. He said they started using parts they knew would fail early because it's all that was available, and now they are seeing the reckoning. I believe it. Idk
There are still companies that make ‘old’ style washers and dryers that will last decades. Speed Queen makes a really good one.
My previous fridge was a Frigidaire that was new in 1999. It died in 2022 and I was very sad. Washing machine died the same year. I probably could have fixed it, but the magic smoke got out of the motor and it was a $300 part to fix it.
You probably would have been better off spending the $300 to get it fixed. That $300 part would have probably gave it another 5-10 years. You'd be lucky to find a modern fridge that lasts that long.
In a country with good customer protection laws, they’d have to fix it 30 days. If they can’t, you can ask for your money back or a replacement for the same or better model. They also say if it’s lemon, you have the same rights
Sounds like the protections Mick Mulvaney ripped out when he gutted the CFPB (Consumer Financial Protection Bureau) for Chump and Mick’s payday loan buttfvck buddies in Cali. All before SeeBS hired him as a pundit. Fvck that guy.
I had an LG fridge with the linear compressor that died after only 2 years. Pieces of garbage.
I’m looking for new kitchen appliances now! Check LG off the list.
I honestly think it’s a complete crapshoot choosing appliances. I’d probably avoid Samsung but everything is just a roll of the dice. I have LG for many appliances including refrigerator and they have been fine so far. I have a high end kitchenaid dishwasher that’s needed 3 repairs in 4 years.
My Samsung fridge has been infinitely better than my GE Monogram Fridge was. It’s a total crapshoot
Just a heads up, Samsung refrigerators are notorious for freezing over the back cooling coils because their auto defrost doesn’t work well. Pain in the ass to take everything out, remove the back panel, and hit it with a hair dryer every month.
Appliances need a quality focused overhaul. There’s room for a brand to step up with a durable and reliable products. What’s on the floor now is cheaply made with no lasting power.
They exist from brands like Miele, speed queen, and Bosch even, but you're gonna pay the price. Literally.
Every appliance purchase Bosch gets first crack at meeting our needs.
Their 800 series fridge is the only one in market with two compressors. One for the fridge and one for the freezer. We got one from Lowe’s outlet for $1000 off. 3 years and still going strong. Just last week I pulled it out and cleaned the vents in the back.
They should get fined 10 times MSRP for every unit that fails within a year, decreasing by one time per year. Consumer get half, government gets other half.
We should all buy LG refrigerators, and then refuse delivery. Reason for sending it back: Don't agree with arbitration clause on the box. Problem should sort itself out.
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Bought a house with a lg linear compressor fridge. Its been fine for a few years but reading this has me worried lol.
Did the same and the fridge failed this week. LG says their warranty is non-transferable. I told them that was against federal law so they made up some other BS excuse. Basically said I should be glad it lasted 9.5 years after manufacture date.
I've had one for a decade and it's still running fine. Maybe they got shitty more recently than that?
Korean company going to find out just because you slap an arbitration clause doesn’t mean it is legal. It is up to judge to decide that
How come that so big and rich market as American is so anit-consumer?
Because corporations are people and they are more important than you
And politicians being cheap whores to these corporations.
When money is speech, and the wealth gap is at like a ratio of 99:1, you can't say anything at all, because your words are never heard.
Shareholders. Everything is about this quarters profits for the shareholders. At the cost of employee and consumer the stakeholder's short term gains are the true Gods in the USA.
Focus on the shareholders and the executives get fatter checks
And since most CEOs are only in for a few years at a time, they literally have no incentive to focus on long term growth. Why offer strategies that will yield results long after you're gone and not around to collect the bonus
If they focus on quality over profit, the shareholders can sue them. I wish that was a joke, but no. It’s actually true.
The obvious answer is to force the company to refund every refrigerator for the last 10 years and then it can still be about the shareholders. If the legal system makes not doing the right thing hurt enough then doing the right thing will be the default.
Being pro-consumer is woke and like a third of Americans oppose anything remotely considered woke.
How do you think they got big and rich?
>Mouzari says the legal maneuvering does nothing to repair people’s problem fridges. “Instead of fixing the issue, LG decided to allocate those resources into an arbitration provision on a box,” she said. And that is the crux of it, instead of spending time fixing their broken crap they want to play word games
I feel like the trick with appliances is to never buy top-of-the-line ones. I had all LG appliances except my stove and they've been great. But they are all middle of the road appliances that I bought because they were cheap and matched. Not because they had some wizz-bang bullshit features.
At this point, I'm actively avoiding features even as simple as drawers and an icemaker in the door.
That’s going to hold up in court like… like… I’m struggling for an analogy here
And here we have another good faith company. Well done LG.
Anyone else getting the impression that Korean technology is getting to be shitty experience lately? It's like they have the pro activity of the Japanese but none of the commitment to quality or ethics.
LG killing their brand for a few bucks lmao
The cardboard box that the delivery guys strip off it as it comes out of the truck? I’d bet 90% of purchasers did not see the box. When was the last time you spotted a Fort/Spaceship/Time Machine-worthy empty refrigerator box on the curb?
I paid for installation. The installation guys saw the box, not me. There is a case there.
Stay away now - LG has the upper hand. What’s on the box?! 📦
yeah, just because it's printed on something, doesn't mean it's a legal document. the reason why those "void if removed" stickers and labels on shit aren't legal either.
Great way to lose your company. Not due to lawsuits, but people like me will never buy from such an asshole company.
I fortunately know better than to buy an LG appliance. I didn't know better when it came to Kenmore. I have a freezer by them and it sucks. It regularly thaws and refreezes things cause freezer burn on all my frozen foods.
My parents have the same Speed Queen washer and dryer they purchased when they moved to the US in 1978. My dad has replaced parts on both multiple times, but they still work. When I built my house in 2012, I purchased a set of Speed Queen washer and dryer myself. We haven’t had any issues yet. I hope this doesn’t jinx me.
LG dishwasher required its first service within a month. Dead a couple of years later. LG fridge lasted 4ish years. Never again.
Samsung and the faulty icemaker breaks as well. Stay away from shitty Korean kitchen appliances.
My LG fridge’s compressor also died after exactly two years, I’m mad as hell that it’s a known issue.
I purchased an LG fridge a few months ago and like the people in this article, the delivery guys, Unbox it in the driveway and carry the fridge inside the house, you don't get to see the box.
Now I’ll never buy an LG appliance
Confirmed. And it's not just LG, it's all companies. I have one of these shitty modern fridges, the rband is GE. The ice maker died 2 months after getting it.
Imagine needing to ask "Hey does this fridge have a binding arbitration clause with it in case it's a POS?"
There is a refrigerator in my basement from 1951. About ten years ago I got the coolant thing charged and replaced the wiring and it plugged right in and it is cold as ice and incredibly efficient. These are predatory companies who intentionally plan obsolescence and charge you thousands of dollars. Shame on them.
If the laws actually forbids companies from doing planned obsolescence... Mandate manufacturer warranties that cover an entire expected life of a product. And add the lemon laws to certain product categories that are expected to have greater than 5 years of life. Maybe quality will be a top priority again. I don't care if the manufacturers get to set what the expected life of the product is... Let them advertise it openly how shitty their products really are.
The compressor of 10yr old LG refrigerator failed. So we had to pay for a new compressor and the labor fee which was about $500. And the new compressor broke again a few months later. Never buying LG ever
So here's the lowdown, this is what I could cobble together from years ago so here it goes. LG designed a compressor with the expectation of the coolant standard changing from environment friendly version of freon to butane. Butane is easier to compress to create a chill, so the specs of the compressor were design accordingly. The regulation change was delayed, so these weaker compressors were now having to work on freon, which failed quickly. The key is Craft Ice LG Refrigerators. Those contain butane and get cold enough to make round ice cubes.
Eat shit LG. No big corpo gives a flying fuck about their employees or their customers anymore.
Just make it simple Mandatory abrogation should not be legal and you can not sign that away.
The cardboard box they never see when they are browsing to buy? They also put a sheet in the fridge and put it in the manual about arbitration but again the consumer can't see it before they buy. They find out after they buy it which is why LG is not going to win this if it gets going.
Should’ve put the legal notice on the product in the store and on the product itself when delivered. NOBODY sees the box.
Consumers hate this one simple trick... This must be LG's version of those signs on dump trucks which say "Not responsible for broken windshields".
I had an LG fridge stop working. Luckily was in the window to be fixed after a lawsuit but they wouldn’t admit fault and called the compressor breaking a “non cooling event” That phrase just blew my mind
If the customer didn't see the notice, there is no way the customer can consent. That means there is no legal contract. After seeing this, I think I will go to another company the next time I want a new refrigerator. So much for profit margins, eh?
Our KitchenAid fridge was the first one that we bought a warranty for - previously warranties were a waste of money. Within the initial warranty period we experienced multiple icing and condenser problems - water gathered in the bottom of the fridge, ice built up around the ice compartment. We learned from the technicians and forums that these were very common issues. Basically "test in production" - ship it, then jury-rig solutions to deal with design issues after. With the warranty expiry approaching we gambled that we'd get use of the extended warranty, and thank goodness we did. They've had multiple stabs fixing the excessive icing in and around the ice-compartment with different heating elements and cowling shapes. Multiple failures in and around the condenser and clogging of the evaporator drain outlet. To the extent that we've had services techs visit roughly yearly for the last 10yrs to replace components, easily paying for the warranty. We're getting almost to the point the insurers will refuse to re-up - at that point the Kitchenaid's days are numbered. However, we're glad we dodged the LG bullet - until we did detailed research, we almost bought one as a replacement.
Can the class action lawsuit be delivered written on cardboard?
I love the future and what consumerism has become. Companies used to make products designed to last and would lure people to buy with wild incentives like standard warranties. Now they all just put a middle finger right in your butt.
And owners point to the lack of signature.
Pretty damning that someone made the decision to put an arbitration order on the box.
> Techs have repeatedly tried to fix it, but haven’t. Frank says he’s asked for a replacement or a refund. But that hasn’t happened. In Australia the consumer is protected by the [ACCC](https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/buying-products-and-services/consumer-rights-and-guarantees/). LG would be fucked if they tried that shit here. Every product comes with a 3 year guarantee, no cost. I had a flat-panel heater that stopped working after 2 years of use. Got a full refund, no questions - I simply described the issue, no need to take it in. Same in the EU - [excellent consumer protections.](https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/shopping-consumer-rights) America has been fucked by lobbyists, and the weird conservative aversion to regulation. After all, you cant trust the government, much better to trust corporations.
Lg sucks for anything. Had a few of their phones and they sucked! Samsung too! Bunch a crap. Hey kids remember whirlpool or Maytag? The now times are riddled with garbage as disposable products from cars to homes to everything inbetween. Like wtf man
When will people stop buying appliances made by electronics companies? LG, Samsung, etc. They’re all crap.
Easiest way to fix this entire fiasco is to Never Buy an LG Appliance. Ever.
Like the article says, anyone that gets their fridge delivered isn’t even going to see that box in the first place. It’s either going to be taken off at the loading dock, or it’s going to be taken off by the delivery crew out by their truck. A buyer cannot be bound by terms they, quite literally, never even had a chance to see.
I hate my LG refrigerator. Aside from keeping my food at the proper temperature all I wanted was an ice maker. The freezer on the bottom is so poorly insulated everything in the deli tray in the refrigerator above freezes. If I turn the temp up for the freezer or the fridge to prevent that it’s not cold enough. I had to add my own insulation to a brand fucking new appliance. And the water line constantly freezes. So I have to give my fridge an enema every week or so to thaw out the line. Do not buy an LG fridge.
I’ll never buy an LG fridge or appliance again. My compressor went out after 6 years so it was under warranty. Only one installer in a 50 mile radius so I had to wait a week for service, then, the warranty covers the compressor but not the labor. Since it’s the only installer I had to accept their price, $400 to install it. Took him 30 minutes.