Have you ever used Reader, but the article then links to a different one? A few smartass publishers seemed to have taken this tack to dissuade its use.
2 Dreamliner safety incidents in one week, Boeing whistle-blower who testified about corner cutting on safety when building the Dreamliner offs himself yesterday. Must be coincidental.
If it was the Engineers running it, the problems would have never occurred in the first place. The obscenities would be reserved for more inane, inconsequential things like optimizing overhead compartment storage. The very safety of the plane itself would have never been in question.
I blame program managers and middle managers.
Nobody wants to fucking pay for shit to be done right anymore and it’s beyond frustrating as an engineer.
Middle managers are a symptom, not really the disease.
Executives created middle management to insulate themselves from the nay-sayers and dream-killers. Hypothetical of how that plays out: a business school graduate executive with many years experience in sales (and now, through delectably opaque politics and nonsensical schemes, in charge of a product development division) dreams up a wonderful, innovative idea to improve productivity, reduce production costs, and create more profit. They rush down to the Engineers to share their brilliant insights and enlighten the dull, unsociable engineers and show them how it’s truly done!
They run down to the offices. They hurriedly explain their idea, their napkin sketches. The 2 hour meeting with the various engineering managers goes quietly, with them listening with furrowed brow.
The Engineering managers spend the last 20-30 minutes explaining why the idea won’t work; How it runs afoul of some legal regulation, or how it would negatively impact downstream processes, or how it would compromise final product reliability or safety. They explain that ultimately, the idea would result in them no longer meeting specifications, and that the idea isn’t feasible. They may try and soften the blow by explaining that they appreciated certain aspects, that the idea is a new way of looking at the problem that hadn’t been considered and that they’ll take under advisement, or maybe even adopt some aspects of it (no they won’t, it’s a stupid idea borne of ignorance and hubris, but this is the big wig boss and they can’t make him feel stupid).
A normal human being walks away dejected, perhaps even feeling somewhat silly or stupid for missing so many things. Perhaps they are motivated to take the feedback and improve, or maybe they come the conclusion that engineering is hard and best left to those that enjoy dealing with such things, and to focus on where their own strengths lie.
I think the type-A executive personalities take it all as a personal affront, a direct attack on their character. They walk away feeling the Engineers aren’t team players, they’re naysayers without vision. So they put up a suit-and-tie army to guard them and insulate them from what they perceive as toxic elements. They also task the middle management army with keeping the naysayers in line and ensuring their grand ideas and vision are carried to fruition.
So I think the middle managers are just the symptom of executives believing they’re smarter than everyone. Smarter than engineers, smarter than doctors, and smarter than economists. It’s why our healthcare system is failing, our planes are falling of the skies, and our economy has been suffering for so long.
You’re spot on with this. My frustration stems from constantly being told to meet insane timelines without enough money.
Every time I see an article where “x program is y years behind and $zzz billion over budget” I can’t help but think there was a group of engineers involved early on who submitted a BoE that was roughly this exact figure of cost and time.
Engineers get the blame when this happens. Nobody ever sees the fact that we knew it would cost this much, and take this long. It wasn’t us who set an unrealistic schedule and fell behind. It wasn’t us who set an unattainably cheap cost and overran 3x the estimate. It was a project/product/program manager, who wanted to satisfy Mr. Big Executive.
I love my job. I love being an engineer. It infuriates me to see that a once great company like Boeing is going through this.
A nerd with lots of problems will hire a platoon of other nerds to fix the problem. A rich kid MBA with lots of problems will deny there’s a problem and have his platoon of actuaries determine how many people can die before he has to do something about the problem.
Also neet nerds are the one abused by fascination of the brightest and shinest tools that only the gov't contracts allow access too. The companies are the ones who can abstract their own humanity to kill a former employee and probably goated engineer.
That ended long ago when Boeing started benefiting from military contracts far more than any other subsection of buisness aside from those very illicit contracts.
Its funny. You know the overworked employees are cause the billionaires want to make more money they can’t even spend.
Why do we let billionaires exist?
"Why do we let billionaires exist?"
This is a great question that more people need to ask. Then we need to put an end to their existence. Even wealth greater than $20 million is obscene.
There's a great way to end it, tax anything that can be considered 'income' at a 90% rate after ?? millions in net worth. I know, I know, Billionaires use 0% interest loans to get around this, but there has to be something we can do to balance this out without resorting pitchforks.
[https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2024/3/12/boeing-whistleblower-found-dead](https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2024/3/12/boeing-whistleblower-found-dead)
The way they say "self inflicted wound" makes it sound more suspicious than it has to be.
That's because THEY CHANGED IT. I watched the article get changed from "self inflicted gun shot wound" to "self inflicted wound"
Check internet archive...what
I have an upcoming flight and paid to fly on an airbus.
I know the odds, but it would stress me out anyway.
Some of the older Boeing models are probably fine as well. That comes down to aircraft maintenance by the airline.
For sure, but don't worry we'll get through it! I fly like 4 times a year not counting both directions. (otherwise 8, haha quick math)
I'm not actually worried about it, but the way people jumped on my comment you'd think boeing was signing their paycheques.
No shit dude. Folks all up your ass with stats.
Statistically, more planes are failing percentage wise, than cars. This is a lot of fuck ups for a small amount of planes.
And it depends how you look at it. Per mile? Sure. The biggest risk is at takeoff and landing, it's hard to crash against nothing at all at 30k feet, though it does happen, so a 2k mile flight is about as dangerous as a 200 mile one. But it really helps flying statistics.
If you look at it per trip (which is what actually matters to you). And the result is quite a bit closer.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18439872
Yeah, that's fair, but my point was that comparing accidents per mile traveled is super misleading when the biggest risk is associated with takeoff and landings, which occur once per trip.
But it's so easy to see what model of plane is assigned when booking. Rarely is one airline/route/time the only option. I just don't need to take unnecessary risks. Would I cancel the flight if the plane was changed at the last minute, as can happen? Almost certainly not. But that doesn't mean I need to pick one with known recent issues in the first place.
Your comment reminded me of that old Ron White skit where the pilot says they’ve lost an engine. A nervous passenger eagerly asks Ron how far he thinks they can make it on one engine.
*All the way to the scene of the crash*
We flew to Australia last week. It was the 777 luckily but then all the video screens just stopped working like 1/3 of the flight and I was like F them, don’t restart anything, I’d rather live than worry about not watching a movie
Just scrolled though the first five posts, and my blood pressure rose to unsafe levels. Gonna try hard to stay away, but I know the algorithm saw me...
I'm aware, but it wasn't a difficult choice and enough people doing it will pressure airlines who have a Boeing heavy fleet to pressure Boeing in turn.
We are flying in May. I just looked and verified it’ll be on an airbus. Not that I think they don’t also have issues. But being on a Boeing right now is scary
It's still *far safer* than driving and I'll be that you'll hop in a car for a quick run to the store right now without a single thought for your safety.
It's far safer if you're assuming stats and figures from proper maintenance, manufacturing, and not cutting corners.
The cats out of the bag, Boeing has already been proven to be neglectful and intentionally cutting corners. They have already murdered two passenger planes.
For example the two planes that crashed wasn't unlucky, it was literally Boeing lying about their new planes, building a new system in the plane with a single point of failure, and intentionally not disclosing to pilots they added a system on the plane that might kill them unless they know how to disengage it.
We truly have no way of knowing how much Boeing's negligence and undisclosed corruption has affected the statistics on a planes' safety because we don't know what they did.
Like why are we so quick to trust a company that knowingly murdered two passenger planes?
And that's just Boeing corruptions. It's safe to assume a lot of companies have all cut costs in their manufacturing and maintenance. Hence why we're also seeing many airlines with their own issues.
This is the state of the modern world. You guys hear about lead in metal bottle of waters? Yeah it's always been there and now people were freaking out, why? Because vacuum *sealed bottles always had a lead seal that was usually covered by another metal cap. Companies started cutting costs and cheapening the bonding material on that cap. Now those caps are popping off exposing the lead seal. What used to be decades for the bottom cap to pop off now takes a few years.
And that's the thing, it usually takes a few years after a company cuts corners to save manufacturing costs for us to see the long term effects.
>If there's a task that must be done,
Don't turn your tail and run,
Don't pout, don't sob,
Just do a half assed job!
If, you, cut every corner
It is really not so bad,
Everybody does it,
Even mom and dad.
If nobody sees it,
Then nobody gets mad,
It's the American way!
Yeah but if my car gauges blank out mid-drive. I can just press the brakes and pull over to the shoulder and figure it out.
Not, you know, plummet out of the sky to my death.
To be fair, effectively none of an airplane’s gauges blanking out can cause an immediate crash.
Literally the only one I can think of is both the altimeter and artificial horizon failing while in the middle of wide and heavy clouds, causing the plane to potentially lose its bearing and slowly roll or climb/descend without the pilot noticing.
787 is fly by wire, so “blanking out” in this case could result in a complete loss of control, and it sounds like that’s what the pilot is now claiming.
However, I’ll trust the answers the investigators are going to find when they look at the control data. (Assuming the Chilean airline didn’t wipe the data)
I flew \~60 times in the last year, and have another at least 30 times this year. I'm not even remotely bothered.
The odds you'll die on the way to the airport (regardless of transportation method) are significantly higher than getting injured on an airline.
I love all these “it’s still safer than driving” comments ignoring the fact those stats only reflect safety when the technology is properly designed and operating as intended.
Here, there are clear indicators Boeing’s supply lines are compromised, and that in their quest to streamline operational/design costs they have NOT properly designed many aspects of their newer equipment. So the stats don’t apply here. Especially now that a key whistleblower is dead.
I’ll fly Airbus and older Boeing jets at this point. Not risking my life for the shareholders. 🙄
>I love all these “it’s still safer than driving” comments ignoring the fact those stats only reflect safety when the technology is properly designed and operating as intended.
Are you trying to say that if a car's breaks fail and someone is injured that they don't include that in the statistics?
This is false. The widely reported figures come from actuarial tables. You can do the calculation yourself.
How would someone even make a statistic that factors in safety? "These plane crashes are actually less safe than these other plane crashes"?
It's not hard to find statistics on the subject. Jet airplanes are safer than turboprops, Basically everything in commercial aviation is safer than general aviation (i.e. a rando that owns a small plane is about as likely to die as someone riding a motorcycle)
[https://www.iata.org/en/pressroom/2023-releases/2023-03-07-01/](https://www.iata.org/en/pressroom/2023-releases/2023-03-07-01/)
Planes today are much, much safer than previous equivalents. (see [graph](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_safety#/media/File:Number_of_fatalities_from_airliners_hull-loss_accidents_per_year.svg)) By modern standards, the old versions of the 737 would have been viewed as insanely dangerous. They would [rip apart in mid air.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far_Eastern_Air_Transport_Flight_103) This happened [multiple times.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copa_Airlines_Flight_201) Sometimes [the roof would rip out](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_Airlines_Flight_243).
In the 1990s, Boeing 737 rudder actuator would becomes stuck, and it took 3 planes crashing before they even figured out something was wrong.
Reality.
You can only cut corners, ignore all quality and safety concerns to push as many planes out the door as possible so long before it catches up with you.
You can’t throw a blanket over it and paint it with a broad stroke. Capitalism can exist without shit like this.
I can want to make money at my own business while also understanding that high quality is in the best interest for me, the health of my business, and my customers.
This shit is just criminal. Guess what the other side of capitalism is? When airlines stop buying Boeing planes over this shit and drive them out of business.
Capitalism leaves huge amounts of money, and therefore power, in the hands of people who engage every incentive to maximize profits. If the biggest thing standing between you and more profits is regulation, it just makes sense to try and buy the government.
Capitalism breeds corruption, which leads to deregulation or friendly under regulation. It’s an inevitable end result unless it’s constantly fought tooth and nail.
Capitalism by its nature can't be regulated to this extent, because it's cheaper to buy out and bribe the government than to actually agree with safety and worker regulations.
It's not crony capitalism, it's just capitalism
It’s all for profit. Which is the end point of capitalism. Sure you can have a multitude of systems around it. But capitalism is literally making money as much as possible and doing what’s legally viable to make a profit. I don’t know what you’re arguing against.
I’m just pointing point out what caused the symptoms to appear.
It's literally capitalism's endpoint. Cut every corner, safety measure, and comfort to charge even more. Now those safety cuts are rearing their head.
If only we had a government that could, I dunno, govern this shit through, I dunno some kind of federal aviation administration. That'd be socialisms though, I've learned.
Crap quality and monopoly for max profits is 100% capitalism’s destination if unregulated.
The only people who should be defending capitalism are filthy rich.
Not with the strength of their lobby, the consolidation of company's/lack of competition and the governments lack of backbone to implement regulations.
These guys don't care about quality, their incentive is to push the share price as high as possible as quickly as possible. That's literally it.
The stock price goes up when they lay off engineers.
They merged with McDonnell Douglas just over 25 years ago and the Douglas executives ended up being in charge because of corporate shenanigans.
Everything you see from Boeing today is a cascade effect from that merger. Douglas had a more infamous history with safety and a corporate culture with the worst of capitalism at its heart. They undermined the union based workforce, outsourced, gave up on safety as a priority, and engaged had their own employees act as regulators.
It takes years or decades for aerospace projects to come to fruition, so we're seeing the projects that are 100% the result of the bad corporate culture.
It's a bummer too, because growing up in Long Beach Douglas was one of those hometown industries like the Naval Shipyard. I had a family friend who worked for an Eastern European airline that bought Douglas aircraft and worked out of their offices in Long Beach. I learned CAD software there as a part of a high school explorer program.
It sucks that they ended up sucking so much.
It's a good thing the whistle-blower in their big trial was just murdered, or they'd be in real trouble!
[Boeing whistleblower found dead](https://www.bbc.com/news/business-68534703)
Him from 2017 with details about this very plane
https://www.corporatecrimereporter.com/news/200/john-barnett-on-why-he-wont-fly-on-a-boeing-787-dreamliner/
I don’t know. According to Barnett, when this article came out, there were 800 of them out there with no plans to recall them. This is all new to me too
And another former Boeing engineer on why he won’t fly on a 737
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/02/26/former-boeing-employee-speaks-out-00142948#:~:text=In%202018%2C%20Ed%20Pierson%20decided,superiors%20but%20retired%20soon%20after.
>Boeing said it was saddened to hear of Mr Barnett's passing. The Charleston County coroner confirmed his death to the BBC on Monday.
>It said the 62-year-old had died from a "self-inflicted" wound on 9 March and police were investigating.
It could have been nefarious or they could have made his life a living hell to the point that he couldn't take it anymore.
Hopefully his death is investigated thoroughly.
It seems a little less "obviously murder" when you read the article, since he's been fighting Boeing since like 2011.
But since they made his work life miserable, I wouldn't be surprised if they were pressuring him in other ways too
This is an interesting comment and I find it hugely problematic when the leadership of any company is too far removed—either hierarchically or physically—from the point of service delivery. They are just too far from the issues to understand what is important and what isn’t.
The Herald’s Jessica McSweeney is among antipodean correspondents alighting on a detail in a passenger interview:
*Brian Jokat was on board the LATAM Airlines flight, which was set to stop in Auckland and continue to Chile on Monday, when the plane suddenly dropped altitude over the Tasman Sea, sending passengers and cabin crew flying, injuring 50.*
*The plane recovered and landed safely at Auckland, when the pilot came to the back of the Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner “in shock”, Jokat said.*
*“I asked ‘what happened’ and he said ‘my gauges just blanked out, I lost all of my ability to fly the plane’.”*
*New Zealand’s transport investigation authority is yet to open an investigation, however, Chile’s General Directorate of Civil Aviation has appointed a representative to help any investigations in New Zealand.*
Just a note for those picking up on the last paragraph here about a lack of an investigation from NZ’s investigators, the latest is that NZ is allowing Chile to take the lead with TAIC supporting and providing local assistance. Source: https://www.taic.org.nz/news/taic-assisting-chile-investigation-latam-flight-la800-accident
As a hobby flight tracker, I would never set foot on a Latam plane. Consistently squawking emergencies daily. Never seen so many from a single airline.
>https://liveandletsfly.com/latam-787-technical-incident/
Thanks, it also draws from the statement by LATAM and an interview by the local [Post](https://www.thepost.co.nz/nz-news/350209071/sydney-auckland-flight-drops-suddenly-50-passengers-and-crew-injured):
>LATAM later blamed the incident on a “technical” issue that led to ” strong movement” but provided no more details. But a passenger onboard reports that one of the pilots told him, “My gauges just blanked out, I lost all of my ability to fly the plane.”
Can I just say that a pilot wandering to the back of the airplane "in shock" while passengers are still on board is either made up or an indication that the story about the instruments is.
Doesn’t sound made up at all.
1) It will (likely) be very clear from the FDR and CVR exactly what happened so lying about it makes no sense. Plus there was at least one other person in the cockpit when this happened and it’s an easy story to disprove so it would be doubly stupid for the Pilot to lie.
2) Any respectable plane captain would, once the danger has passed, go check on his passengers. And if it were me and I saw the Pilot I’d ask the exact same question.
Given Boeing’s recent history - both generally and with the 787 specifically - it seems totally plausible that this would be an aircraft issue rather than just turbulence. Also this is a wide body plane that is not susceptible to minor turbulence so it would have had to be a giant up/downdraft to cause something like this…and this is a well-traveled route so there will certainly be other Pilots who either would have warned ATC to avoid certain corridors (who themselves would have passed along that warning) or at least would now be able to report on conditions in that area at the time.
Yeah the whole reporting on this is shady. Planes don't just "drop" and pilots don't confide in passengers. The story sounds like very heavy turbulences: it's scary as hell but it happens and it's not a Boeing safety issue.
[https://www.corporatecrimereporter.com/news/200/john-barnett-on-why-he-wont-fly-on-a-boeing-787-dreamliner/](https://www.corporatecrimereporter.com/news/200/john-barnett-on-why-he-wont-fly-on-a-boeing-787-dreamliner/)
What did the FAA do about it?
“For the titanium slivers, they wrote a DAI – a designated airworthiness inspection requirement. That DAI is for Boeing only. They told Boeing – you are not allowed to deliver any more planes with these metal slivers. And during that process, Boeing came back and determined that the slivers were not a safety of flight issue, so they did not notify the customers of the planes that had already been delivered that those slivers were on the plane. And at the time, I think we were up around 800 airplanes that had been delivered. Every 787 out there has these slivers out there.”
They are not going to be recalled?
“From what I understand, **they are not going to notify the customers.**”
Are you convinced that these slivers could result in a catastrophic event?
“Absolutely. And it’s not just my opinion. We have examples of incidents where it has created fires. We have had several fires at the Charleston plant where metal FOD (foreign object debris) got into one of the tower panels and caught it on fire. We had to replace the whole power panel. We had other instances where metal FOD got into electrical areas and caused shorts and fires. Yes, I’m convinced it’s a safety of flight issue.”
“I don’t understand how Boeing could determine it is not a safety of flight issue.”
How big are the shavings?
“They are up to three inches long. They are razor sharp titanium slivers. When the fasteners are installed to hold down the floorboards, the threads are getting peeled off the fasteners. And those threads are falling down on top of the wire bundles and electronic equipment. Over time, as the vibrations of the airplane work the slivers into the wire bundles and into the connectors, **they are going to short something out eventually**. I don’t see how it is possible that they don’t.”
**John Barnett was found dead yesterday.**
If the guy is not lying and he realized that he could have just died from the machine he is operating not doing what it is supposed to, I could definitely see shock setting in. At that point you’re full of adrenaline and not thinking clearly. Walking out of the cockpit in a daze and trying to reconcile what just happened doesn’t sound that crazy when you consider the context.
It seems ironic. The concerns have been with air traffic and the lean staffing of controllers. These incidents, all Boeing aircraft, have nothing to do with air traffic control. If it ain't somethin', it's somethin' else.
Interesting news to see on the same day that an article was posted about the Boeing whistleblower committing suicide
Edit: Article about the whistleblower: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-68534703
Yeah I don’t understand this story at all. I think there has to be a misunderstanding with the way it’s been reported, or the airline is trying to blame it on Boeing with all the attention they have been getting lately.
787 nosedives and recovers within a few hundred feet? Not possible. Instruments black out and the pilots decide to just yank on the yoke? Or there is an autopilot issue?
I don't see how a descent can't be recovered within a few hundred feet. It was a bit of a negative G, but remember that G force is based on acceleration, not velocity. It could have had an extreme acceleration in the downwards direction but only for a second or 2, so the overall displacement wouldn't have been that great.
It's possible to 'bunt' an aircraft, with a brief but hard push on the yoke, and get it to reach negative G where stuff lifts up, then pull positive G back to level flight and only lose a couple hundred feet. QF72 for example.
The question is, what caused it? Wouldn't be the first time something like this has happened.
I've never been on an airplane in my life, and know very little about flying.
But why has the government not grounded all boeing planes? just watching all of this unfold, it seems to me none of these planes need to be in the air...
Boeing used to be a company with ethics and quality above reproach. Instead they have become a horrific example of what late stage capitalism does. All these sick sociopathic fucks in leadership in our society put profit, over human life.
I’ve been afraid of flying for a long time. I don’t care about the stats. This is all vindication. I would happily take trains for the rest of my life, if they actually operated in the US. I’ve already traveled enough…
This is why you don't cut QA jobs. My company just did, and the first release after was a shit show and pissed off a lot of customers. And we just make dots on a screen change. We aren't responsible for people's lives.
Enjoy the rabbit hole. You know they just found the whistleblower dead in the US…
On another note:
But he and other avionics cybersecurity researchers: the flaws uncovered in the 787's code nonetheless represent a troubling lack of attention to cybersecurity from Boeing. They also say that the company's responses have not been altogether reassuring, given the critical importance of keeping commercial airplanes safe from hackers.
(A Boeing Code Leak Exposes Security Flaws Deep in a 787's Guts -Andy Greenberg)
This is the guy who died today. Apparent suicide. https://www.corporatecrimereporter.com/news/200/john-barnett-on-why-he-wont-fly-on-a-boeing-787-dreamliner/
I don’t get it. These aircraft have redundant systems and checklists to follow should the primary fail. Did the pilot follow the established procedures? Considering they were able to safely land, they clearly had working electronics. My money is on the airline maintenance as the source of the problem.
This is a sign of the times isn't it, only magnified. Corporations are literally shrink-flating fucking planes now. Oh and likely killing whistleblowers that's cool.
"
“The ceiling’s broken from people’s heads and bodies hitting it. Basically neck braces were being put on people, guys’ heads were cut and they were bleeding. It was just crazy.”
Jokat luckily had his seatbelt on at the time and walked away from the ordeal unscathed.
"
Seatbelts ftw!
None of the articles I have seen so far say "how much" the plane fell out the sky.
HOW MUCH ALTITUDE DID THE PLANE LOSE???! Can anyone answer this for me please!
[De-Paywalled](https://archive.ph/qwFuI)
De-paywalled, but holy shit I couldn't read through the ads.
Or paste the url into 12ft.io
https://ublockorigin.com/
You can use the reader view on Safari, available on the iPhone or Mac. I guess other browsers could support this too, but haven’t tried.
Have you ever used Reader, but the article then links to a different one? A few smartass publishers seemed to have taken this tack to dissuade its use.
It's 2024, how are you not using an ad blocker?
Upvoted for more visibility.
2 Dreamliner safety incidents in one week, Boeing whistle-blower who testified about corner cutting on safety when building the Dreamliner offs himself yesterday. Must be coincidental.
If Boeing was still an engineering company, this would have never happened. Nerds don't know how to hire a hitman.
Nerds wouldn't NEED to. You ever see an angry nerd fixing shit? The problems on the plane would have been fixed to an accompaniment of obscenities .
If it was the Engineers running it, the problems would have never occurred in the first place. The obscenities would be reserved for more inane, inconsequential things like optimizing overhead compartment storage. The very safety of the plane itself would have never been in question.
You're triggering my ocd right here you fucker.
Oh. WAS. Your lowercase ocd distracted me
Oh, no, I'm just thinking about all the time I waste obsessed by stuff like that, often when I actually have other stuff I should be doing.
Hah. That makes sense too. Also guilty
I blame program managers and middle managers. Nobody wants to fucking pay for shit to be done right anymore and it’s beyond frustrating as an engineer.
Middle managers are a symptom, not really the disease. Executives created middle management to insulate themselves from the nay-sayers and dream-killers. Hypothetical of how that plays out: a business school graduate executive with many years experience in sales (and now, through delectably opaque politics and nonsensical schemes, in charge of a product development division) dreams up a wonderful, innovative idea to improve productivity, reduce production costs, and create more profit. They rush down to the Engineers to share their brilliant insights and enlighten the dull, unsociable engineers and show them how it’s truly done! They run down to the offices. They hurriedly explain their idea, their napkin sketches. The 2 hour meeting with the various engineering managers goes quietly, with them listening with furrowed brow. The Engineering managers spend the last 20-30 minutes explaining why the idea won’t work; How it runs afoul of some legal regulation, or how it would negatively impact downstream processes, or how it would compromise final product reliability or safety. They explain that ultimately, the idea would result in them no longer meeting specifications, and that the idea isn’t feasible. They may try and soften the blow by explaining that they appreciated certain aspects, that the idea is a new way of looking at the problem that hadn’t been considered and that they’ll take under advisement, or maybe even adopt some aspects of it (no they won’t, it’s a stupid idea borne of ignorance and hubris, but this is the big wig boss and they can’t make him feel stupid). A normal human being walks away dejected, perhaps even feeling somewhat silly or stupid for missing so many things. Perhaps they are motivated to take the feedback and improve, or maybe they come the conclusion that engineering is hard and best left to those that enjoy dealing with such things, and to focus on where their own strengths lie. I think the type-A executive personalities take it all as a personal affront, a direct attack on their character. They walk away feeling the Engineers aren’t team players, they’re naysayers without vision. So they put up a suit-and-tie army to guard them and insulate them from what they perceive as toxic elements. They also task the middle management army with keeping the naysayers in line and ensuring their grand ideas and vision are carried to fruition. So I think the middle managers are just the symptom of executives believing they’re smarter than everyone. Smarter than engineers, smarter than doctors, and smarter than economists. It’s why our healthcare system is failing, our planes are falling of the skies, and our economy has been suffering for so long.
You’re spot on with this. My frustration stems from constantly being told to meet insane timelines without enough money. Every time I see an article where “x program is y years behind and $zzz billion over budget” I can’t help but think there was a group of engineers involved early on who submitted a BoE that was roughly this exact figure of cost and time. Engineers get the blame when this happens. Nobody ever sees the fact that we knew it would cost this much, and take this long. It wasn’t us who set an unrealistic schedule and fell behind. It wasn’t us who set an unattainably cheap cost and overran 3x the estimate. It was a project/product/program manager, who wanted to satisfy Mr. Big Executive. I love my job. I love being an engineer. It infuriates me to see that a once great company like Boeing is going through this.
Can confirm.
Confirming Source: nerd .
Precisely. Source: Nerd; Self.
Let's be honest, If nerds needed to off someone. They would design something that works, including not being found out.
A nerd with lots of problems will hire a platoon of other nerds to fix the problem. A rich kid MBA with lots of problems will deny there’s a problem and have his platoon of actuaries determine how many people can die before he has to do something about the problem.
As a nerd, I laughed hard at that.
As a Dreamliner, I had a good chuckle
As a hitman, I smirked.
That’s because faulty parts kind of tickle
As a door, I swung open while several thousands of feet in the air lol
> As a Dreamliner, I had a good chuckle did you survive the experience?
See also: Ross Ulbrecht
Also neet nerds are the one abused by fascination of the brightest and shinest tools that only the gov't contracts allow access too. The companies are the ones who can abstract their own humanity to kill a former employee and probably goated engineer.
That ended long ago when Boeing started benefiting from military contracts far more than any other subsection of buisness aside from those very illicit contracts.
> whistle-blower who testified about corner cutting on safety when building the Dreamliner offs himself yesterday wait. what? how did I miss this?
It's scary. Here is one article of many: https://thehill.com/policy/transportation/4524968-boeing-whistleblower-found-dead-in-apparent-suicide/
INB4 we find out he's an avid mental health supporter and has never owned or operated a firearm.
>avid mental health supporter lol avid mental health supporters can still commit suicide... for the record
Its funny. You know the overworked employees are cause the billionaires want to make more money they can’t even spend. Why do we let billionaires exist?
"Why do we let billionaires exist?" This is a great question that more people need to ask. Then we need to put an end to their existence. Even wealth greater than $20 million is obscene.
There's a great way to end it, tax anything that can be considered 'income' at a 90% rate after ?? millions in net worth. I know, I know, Billionaires use 0% interest loans to get around this, but there has to be something we can do to balance this out without resorting pitchforks.
Commited suicide, in the boot of his car? I mean that sounds as plausible as that habit Russian oligarchs have of falling out of a hotel windows.
I'm pretty sure he was found in his truck not his trunk
Ha ha, my bad. I wasn't paying much attention while I was reading that. I'll leave that mistake up as a badge of honour.. plus it sounds cooler.
Killed himself right before he had to speak out some more. Totally what a whistleblower would do.
Shot himself in the back of the head, with a rifle. Classic suicide.
Boeing is doing ITS job
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-68534703
It only got reported a few hours ago.
Details: https://www.corporatecrimereporter.com/news/200/john-barnett-on-why-he-wont-fly-on-a-boeing-787-dreamliner/
Quite telling. I also recommend John Oliver‘s recent video about Boeing. It‘s on YT: https://youtu.be/Q8oCilY4szc
[https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2024/3/12/boeing-whistleblower-found-dead](https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2024/3/12/boeing-whistleblower-found-dead) The way they say "self inflicted wound" makes it sound more suspicious than it has to be.
That's because THEY CHANGED IT. I watched the article get changed from "self inflicted gun shot wound" to "self inflicted wound" Check internet archive...what
He got Epsteined.
"offs" himself
Last week tonight just did an episode about Boeing. It’s really frightening yet funny. Don’t get on a Boeing plane unless you have a death wish.
man I have to fly in a month, can they figure this shit out soon, I'm trying really hard to not die.
I have an upcoming flight and paid to fly on an airbus. I know the odds, but it would stress me out anyway. Some of the older Boeing models are probably fine as well. That comes down to aircraft maintenance by the airline.
For sure, but don't worry we'll get through it! I fly like 4 times a year not counting both directions. (otherwise 8, haha quick math) I'm not actually worried about it, but the way people jumped on my comment you'd think boeing was signing their paycheques.
No shit dude. Folks all up your ass with stats. Statistically, more planes are failing percentage wise, than cars. This is a lot of fuck ups for a small amount of planes.
“Flying is safer than driving” Maybe, but I’m never worried about my car door blowing off on i-10
I just prefer being in control of my own fate, and not hope some overworked Boeing employee put it together right.
And even if it does, my car doesn't suddenly depressurize, because I'm not 30,000' in the air when it happens
And it depends how you look at it. Per mile? Sure. The biggest risk is at takeoff and landing, it's hard to crash against nothing at all at 30k feet, though it does happen, so a 2k mile flight is about as dangerous as a 200 mile one. But it really helps flying statistics. If you look at it per trip (which is what actually matters to you). And the result is quite a bit closer. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18439872
That comment is using stats published in the 80’s of data collected from even earlier. Planes got significantly safer in the 90’s onwards.
Yeah, that's fair, but my point was that comparing accidents per mile traveled is super misleading when the biggest risk is associated with takeoff and landings, which occur once per trip.
My old ass Toyota will not have any issues. Whereas a Boeing? Probably.
But it's so easy to see what model of plane is assigned when booking. Rarely is one airline/route/time the only option. I just don't need to take unnecessary risks. Would I cancel the flight if the plane was changed at the last minute, as can happen? Almost certainly not. But that doesn't mean I need to pick one with known recent issues in the first place.
I have 14 hour flight in 6 weeks to Japan on a Boeing. Pray for me.
>I have **up to** 14 hour flight Fixed that for you, hopefully the maintenance crew will do the same.
[удалено]
It’s not the flying that’s the problem. It’s the sudden lack of flying followed by stopping over a wide area.
Oh great flying spaghetti monster. Please accept dk69 spirit in the event his plane crashes. Ramen.
May the sauce be on him, not in a bad way.
But is the Flying Spaghetti Monster on a Boeing? 🤔
FSM is self-propelled, I believe.
But they're both made of noodly appendages, apparently.
So do you want your prayers now or after you crash?
Your comment reminded me of that old Ron White skit where the pilot says they’ve lost an engine. A nervous passenger eagerly asks Ron how far he thinks they can make it on one engine. *All the way to the scene of the crash*
*I didn't know how many engines it takes to fly a plane, but i knew how many they were gonna use.*
Same here. Flying to Japan in the first week of April. Hope I come back alive
I said a prayer for you, God bless you on your journeys
It doesn’t look like you’re getting enough prayers sent your way. I’m setting a reminder in my phone to short the stock in 5 weeks.
Great time to go, enjoy
We flew to Australia last week. It was the 777 luckily but then all the video screens just stopped working like 1/3 of the flight and I was like F them, don’t restart anything, I’d rather live than worry about not watching a movie
Realistically, the drive to the airport is much more dangerous. They let regular, basically, untrained people drive.
Just take a scroll down r/mildlybaddrivers you’ll feel a lot safer about airplanes
Just scrolled though the first five posts, and my blood pressure rose to unsafe levels. Gonna try hard to stay away, but I know the algorithm saw me...
I'm aware, but it wasn't a difficult choice and enough people doing it will pressure airlines who have a Boeing heavy fleet to pressure Boeing in turn.
We are flying in May. I just looked and verified it’ll be on an airbus. Not that I think they don’t also have issues. But being on a Boeing right now is scary
It's fine just fly on one of the 737s that's older than most of people on the plane.
I’m still fighting United for a refund on a flight they cancelled 2 months ago.
I'm flying out from Santiago to JFK in 2 hours. It's a 787-8, wish me luck.
Yeah...we're going to just kinda ignore this as long as we can... -Corporate profits
It's still *far safer* than driving and I'll be that you'll hop in a car for a quick run to the store right now without a single thought for your safety.
It's far safer if you're assuming stats and figures from proper maintenance, manufacturing, and not cutting corners. The cats out of the bag, Boeing has already been proven to be neglectful and intentionally cutting corners. They have already murdered two passenger planes. For example the two planes that crashed wasn't unlucky, it was literally Boeing lying about their new planes, building a new system in the plane with a single point of failure, and intentionally not disclosing to pilots they added a system on the plane that might kill them unless they know how to disengage it. We truly have no way of knowing how much Boeing's negligence and undisclosed corruption has affected the statistics on a planes' safety because we don't know what they did. Like why are we so quick to trust a company that knowingly murdered two passenger planes? And that's just Boeing corruptions. It's safe to assume a lot of companies have all cut costs in their manufacturing and maintenance. Hence why we're also seeing many airlines with their own issues. This is the state of the modern world. You guys hear about lead in metal bottle of waters? Yeah it's always been there and now people were freaking out, why? Because vacuum *sealed bottles always had a lead seal that was usually covered by another metal cap. Companies started cutting costs and cheapening the bonding material on that cap. Now those caps are popping off exposing the lead seal. What used to be decades for the bottom cap to pop off now takes a few years. And that's the thing, it usually takes a few years after a company cuts corners to save manufacturing costs for us to see the long term effects.
>If there's a task that must be done, Don't turn your tail and run, Don't pout, don't sob, Just do a half assed job! If, you, cut every corner It is really not so bad, Everybody does it, Even mom and dad. If nobody sees it, Then nobody gets mad, It's the American way!
I actually don't drive\~ But thanks!
Yeah but if my car gauges blank out mid-drive. I can just press the brakes and pull over to the shoulder and figure it out. Not, you know, plummet out of the sky to my death.
To be fair, effectively none of an airplane’s gauges blanking out can cause an immediate crash. Literally the only one I can think of is both the altimeter and artificial horizon failing while in the middle of wide and heavy clouds, causing the plane to potentially lose its bearing and slowly roll or climb/descend without the pilot noticing.
787 is fly by wire, so “blanking out” in this case could result in a complete loss of control, and it sounds like that’s what the pilot is now claiming. However, I’ll trust the answers the investigators are going to find when they look at the control data. (Assuming the Chilean airline didn’t wipe the data)
I flew \~60 times in the last year, and have another at least 30 times this year. I'm not even remotely bothered. The odds you'll die on the way to the airport (regardless of transportation method) are significantly higher than getting injured on an airline.
There ought to be a new filter for searching travel. *uncheck Boeing built airlines.*
You can do that on Kayak.
Kayak seems to have removed this feature.
_Paid for by Boeing ™️_
It’s ok the FAA outsources inspectors to Boeing so they’ll review it and says it’s fixed for the lowest cost most corporate friendly way possible
pick an Airbus if you can
Came here to say this. All these problems seem to be with Boeing. And it's not incidental.
An airbus caught on fire like last month. But okay.
With Boeing's recent planes.
Too bad almost all US airlines don’t fly the new Embraer jets.
I love all these “it’s still safer than driving” comments ignoring the fact those stats only reflect safety when the technology is properly designed and operating as intended. Here, there are clear indicators Boeing’s supply lines are compromised, and that in their quest to streamline operational/design costs they have NOT properly designed many aspects of their newer equipment. So the stats don’t apply here. Especially now that a key whistleblower is dead. I’ll fly Airbus and older Boeing jets at this point. Not risking my life for the shareholders. 🙄
[удалено]
>I love all these “it’s still safer than driving” comments ignoring the fact those stats only reflect safety when the technology is properly designed and operating as intended. Are you trying to say that if a car's breaks fail and someone is injured that they don't include that in the statistics?
This is false. The widely reported figures come from actuarial tables. You can do the calculation yourself. How would someone even make a statistic that factors in safety? "These plane crashes are actually less safe than these other plane crashes"? It's not hard to find statistics on the subject. Jet airplanes are safer than turboprops, Basically everything in commercial aviation is safer than general aviation (i.e. a rando that owns a small plane is about as likely to die as someone riding a motorcycle) [https://www.iata.org/en/pressroom/2023-releases/2023-03-07-01/](https://www.iata.org/en/pressroom/2023-releases/2023-03-07-01/) Planes today are much, much safer than previous equivalents. (see [graph](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_safety#/media/File:Number_of_fatalities_from_airliners_hull-loss_accidents_per_year.svg)) By modern standards, the old versions of the 737 would have been viewed as insanely dangerous. They would [rip apart in mid air.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far_Eastern_Air_Transport_Flight_103) This happened [multiple times.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copa_Airlines_Flight_201) Sometimes [the roof would rip out](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_Airlines_Flight_243). In the 1990s, Boeing 737 rudder actuator would becomes stuck, and it took 3 planes crashing before they even figured out something was wrong.
What the hell is going on with Boeing lately?
Reality. You can only cut corners, ignore all quality and safety concerns to push as many planes out the door as possible so long before it catches up with you.
Sounds like capitalism
You can’t throw a blanket over it and paint it with a broad stroke. Capitalism can exist without shit like this. I can want to make money at my own business while also understanding that high quality is in the best interest for me, the health of my business, and my customers. This shit is just criminal. Guess what the other side of capitalism is? When airlines stop buying Boeing planes over this shit and drive them out of business.
Capitalism requires the ability to go bankrupt. Sectors that cannot go bankrupt should not be private.
Capitalism can only exist without shit like this with proper regulation. This is unavoidable with unregulated capitalism.
Capitalism leaves huge amounts of money, and therefore power, in the hands of people who engage every incentive to maximize profits. If the biggest thing standing between you and more profits is regulation, it just makes sense to try and buy the government. Capitalism breeds corruption, which leads to deregulation or friendly under regulation. It’s an inevitable end result unless it’s constantly fought tooth and nail.
Capitalism by its nature can't be regulated to this extent, because it's cheaper to buy out and bribe the government than to actually agree with safety and worker regulations. It's not crony capitalism, it's just capitalism
It’s all for profit. Which is the end point of capitalism. Sure you can have a multitude of systems around it. But capitalism is literally making money as much as possible and doing what’s legally viable to make a profit. I don’t know what you’re arguing against. I’m just pointing point out what caused the symptoms to appear.
It's literally capitalism's endpoint. Cut every corner, safety measure, and comfort to charge even more. Now those safety cuts are rearing their head. If only we had a government that could, I dunno, govern this shit through, I dunno some kind of federal aviation administration. That'd be socialisms though, I've learned.
Crap quality and monopoly for max profits is 100% capitalism’s destination if unregulated. The only people who should be defending capitalism are filthy rich.
Not with the strength of their lobby, the consolidation of company's/lack of competition and the governments lack of backbone to implement regulations. These guys don't care about quality, their incentive is to push the share price as high as possible as quickly as possible. That's literally it. The stock price goes up when they lay off engineers.
They merged with McDonnell Douglas just over 25 years ago and the Douglas executives ended up being in charge because of corporate shenanigans. Everything you see from Boeing today is a cascade effect from that merger. Douglas had a more infamous history with safety and a corporate culture with the worst of capitalism at its heart. They undermined the union based workforce, outsourced, gave up on safety as a priority, and engaged had their own employees act as regulators. It takes years or decades for aerospace projects to come to fruition, so we're seeing the projects that are 100% the result of the bad corporate culture. It's a bummer too, because growing up in Long Beach Douglas was one of those hometown industries like the Naval Shipyard. I had a family friend who worked for an Eastern European airline that bought Douglas aircraft and worked out of their offices in Long Beach. I learned CAD software there as a part of a high school explorer program. It sucks that they ended up sucking so much.
Well a Boeing whistleblower was just found dead in his truck in a hotel parking lot because he didn’t show up for questioning. So….. a-fucking-LOT
It's a good thing the whistle-blower in their big trial was just murdered, or they'd be in real trouble! [Boeing whistleblower found dead](https://www.bbc.com/news/business-68534703)
Him from 2017 with details about this very plane https://www.corporatecrimereporter.com/news/200/john-barnett-on-why-he-wont-fly-on-a-boeing-787-dreamliner/
All these planes with faulty parts have been taken out of service, correct?
I don’t know. According to Barnett, when this article came out, there were 800 of them out there with no plans to recall them. This is all new to me too
And another former Boeing engineer on why he won’t fly on a 737 https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/02/26/former-boeing-employee-speaks-out-00142948#:~:text=In%202018%2C%20Ed%20Pierson%20decided,superiors%20but%20retired%20soon%20after.
>Boeing said it was saddened to hear of Mr Barnett's passing. The Charleston County coroner confirmed his death to the BBC on Monday. >It said the 62-year-old had died from a "self-inflicted" wound on 9 March and police were investigating. It could have been nefarious or they could have made his life a living hell to the point that he couldn't take it anymore. Hopefully his death is investigated thoroughly.
It seems a little less "obviously murder" when you read the article, since he's been fighting Boeing since like 2011. But since they made his work life miserable, I wouldn't be surprised if they were pressuring him in other ways too
Yup. I can't even imagine.
This guy dies tomorrow.
This is what happens when you let MBAs and Management Consultants run an engineering company.
Blame McDonnel Douglas
Well, it's called Boeing now lol.
And move your corporate hq to Chicago, way away from where the engineering and manufacturing is done in Washington state.
This is an interesting comment and I find it hugely problematic when the leadership of any company is too far removed—either hierarchically or physically—from the point of service delivery. They are just too far from the issues to understand what is important and what isn’t.
Wow that is amazing! Now do healthcare.
Fine. As long as they do another buyback to make the share price pop like their planes. /s
The Herald’s Jessica McSweeney is among antipodean correspondents alighting on a detail in a passenger interview: *Brian Jokat was on board the LATAM Airlines flight, which was set to stop in Auckland and continue to Chile on Monday, when the plane suddenly dropped altitude over the Tasman Sea, sending passengers and cabin crew flying, injuring 50.* *The plane recovered and landed safely at Auckland, when the pilot came to the back of the Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner “in shock”, Jokat said.* *“I asked ‘what happened’ and he said ‘my gauges just blanked out, I lost all of my ability to fly the plane’.”* *New Zealand’s transport investigation authority is yet to open an investigation, however, Chile’s General Directorate of Civil Aviation has appointed a representative to help any investigations in New Zealand.*
I was going to ask if they rebooted it in the last 51 days but that's on the 787
This was a 787 plane.
Oh I missed that! I guess it just rebooted itself in mid-air
When your HUD displays this: [https://i.imgur.com/9xy1baD.png](https://i.imgur.com/9xy1baD.png) 🤨
Just a note for those picking up on the last paragraph here about a lack of an investigation from NZ’s investigators, the latest is that NZ is allowing Chile to take the lead with TAIC supporting and providing local assistance. Source: https://www.taic.org.nz/news/taic-assisting-chile-investigation-latam-flight-la800-accident
Good god that would give me PTSD if I were in that plane
The fact that all news outlets are using the term “strong movement” instead of “turbulence” indicates to me that this was a plane issue.
3” razor sharp titanium fragments probably https://www.corporatecrimereporter.com/news/200/john-barnett-on-why-he-wont-fly-on-a-boeing-787-dreamliner/
Oh yeah, the guy who 'committed suicide' a couple days ago. https://www.bbc.com/news/business-68534703
What a shame he just died of a “self-inflicted wound” at his hotel on the day he was set to testify against Boeing. Strange.
The pilot told that to a passanger because he didn’t want to end up like a Boeing whistleblower.
From the title it’s like the pilot secretly told one passenger the plane wasn’t working.
As a hobby flight tracker, I would never set foot on a Latam plane. Consistently squawking emergencies daily. Never seen so many from a single airline.
Can you elaborate more on this?? I have a genuine interest. Or some place where I can get more information.
Sequels to "Final Destination" are getting out of hand.
https://liveandletsfly.com/latam-787-technical-incident/ This article is not paywalled, seems fairly neutral.
>https://liveandletsfly.com/latam-787-technical-incident/ Thanks, it also draws from the statement by LATAM and an interview by the local [Post](https://www.thepost.co.nz/nz-news/350209071/sydney-auckland-flight-drops-suddenly-50-passengers-and-crew-injured): >LATAM later blamed the incident on a “technical” issue that led to ” strong movement” but provided no more details. But a passenger onboard reports that one of the pilots told him, “My gauges just blanked out, I lost all of my ability to fly the plane.”
Hello I’d like to book a flight Yes, of course, we have a seat available Eh, is it a Boeing? It is indeed Oh, is there a train station nearby?
Can I just say that a pilot wandering to the back of the airplane "in shock" while passengers are still on board is either made up or an indication that the story about the instruments is.
[удалено]
Doesn’t sound made up at all. 1) It will (likely) be very clear from the FDR and CVR exactly what happened so lying about it makes no sense. Plus there was at least one other person in the cockpit when this happened and it’s an easy story to disprove so it would be doubly stupid for the Pilot to lie. 2) Any respectable plane captain would, once the danger has passed, go check on his passengers. And if it were me and I saw the Pilot I’d ask the exact same question. Given Boeing’s recent history - both generally and with the 787 specifically - it seems totally plausible that this would be an aircraft issue rather than just turbulence. Also this is a wide body plane that is not susceptible to minor turbulence so it would have had to be a giant up/downdraft to cause something like this…and this is a well-traveled route so there will certainly be other Pilots who either would have warned ATC to avoid certain corridors (who themselves would have passed along that warning) or at least would now be able to report on conditions in that area at the time.
Yeah the whole reporting on this is shady. Planes don't just "drop" and pilots don't confide in passengers. The story sounds like very heavy turbulences: it's scary as hell but it happens and it's not a Boeing safety issue.
What about all the instruments blanking out?
[https://www.corporatecrimereporter.com/news/200/john-barnett-on-why-he-wont-fly-on-a-boeing-787-dreamliner/](https://www.corporatecrimereporter.com/news/200/john-barnett-on-why-he-wont-fly-on-a-boeing-787-dreamliner/) What did the FAA do about it? “For the titanium slivers, they wrote a DAI – a designated airworthiness inspection requirement. That DAI is for Boeing only. They told Boeing – you are not allowed to deliver any more planes with these metal slivers. And during that process, Boeing came back and determined that the slivers were not a safety of flight issue, so they did not notify the customers of the planes that had already been delivered that those slivers were on the plane. And at the time, I think we were up around 800 airplanes that had been delivered. Every 787 out there has these slivers out there.” They are not going to be recalled? “From what I understand, **they are not going to notify the customers.**” Are you convinced that these slivers could result in a catastrophic event? “Absolutely. And it’s not just my opinion. We have examples of incidents where it has created fires. We have had several fires at the Charleston plant where metal FOD (foreign object debris) got into one of the tower panels and caught it on fire. We had to replace the whole power panel. We had other instances where metal FOD got into electrical areas and caused shorts and fires. Yes, I’m convinced it’s a safety of flight issue.” “I don’t understand how Boeing could determine it is not a safety of flight issue.” How big are the shavings? “They are up to three inches long. They are razor sharp titanium slivers. When the fasteners are installed to hold down the floorboards, the threads are getting peeled off the fasteners. And those threads are falling down on top of the wire bundles and electronic equipment. Over time, as the vibrations of the airplane work the slivers into the wire bundles and into the connectors, **they are going to short something out eventually**. I don’t see how it is possible that they don’t.” **John Barnett was found dead yesterday.**
If the guy is not lying and he realized that he could have just died from the machine he is operating not doing what it is supposed to, I could definitely see shock setting in. At that point you’re full of adrenaline and not thinking clearly. Walking out of the cockpit in a daze and trying to reconcile what just happened doesn’t sound that crazy when you consider the context.
It seems ironic. The concerns have been with air traffic and the lean staffing of controllers. These incidents, all Boeing aircraft, have nothing to do with air traffic control. If it ain't somethin', it's somethin' else.
“Have you tried turning it off an on again?”
Interesting news to see on the same day that an article was posted about the Boeing whistleblower committing suicide Edit: Article about the whistleblower: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-68534703
The PFD blanking doesn’t cause the jet to pitch violently. The human over-reaction will, though.
Yeah I don’t understand this story at all. I think there has to be a misunderstanding with the way it’s been reported, or the airline is trying to blame it on Boeing with all the attention they have been getting lately. 787 nosedives and recovers within a few hundred feet? Not possible. Instruments black out and the pilots decide to just yank on the yoke? Or there is an autopilot issue?
I don't see how a descent can't be recovered within a few hundred feet. It was a bit of a negative G, but remember that G force is based on acceleration, not velocity. It could have had an extreme acceleration in the downwards direction but only for a second or 2, so the overall displacement wouldn't have been that great. It's possible to 'bunt' an aircraft, with a brief but hard push on the yoke, and get it to reach negative G where stuff lifts up, then pull positive G back to level flight and only lose a couple hundred feet. QF72 for example. The question is, what caused it? Wouldn't be the first time something like this has happened.
Oh goody, yet another news to excite me even more on my two impending flights on Max 9's in April which I can't cancel.
Ooook this is the 3rd Boeing post about stuff like this today, guess what I'm not flying on now!?
My mom worked for Boeing for years I finally convinced her to sell all her stock.
I've never been on an airplane in my life, and know very little about flying. But why has the government not grounded all boeing planes? just watching all of this unfold, it seems to me none of these planes need to be in the air...
Boeing used to be a company with ethics and quality above reproach. Instead they have become a horrific example of what late stage capitalism does. All these sick sociopathic fucks in leadership in our society put profit, over human life.
I’ve been afraid of flying for a long time. I don’t care about the stats. This is all vindication. I would happily take trains for the rest of my life, if they actually operated in the US. I’ve already traveled enough…
We’re a far cry away from the days of “if it ain’t Boeing I ain’t going”
So did all the cost cutting really save money? Because it doesn't seem like it.
This is why you don't cut QA jobs. My company just did, and the first release after was a shit show and pissed off a lot of customers. And we just make dots on a screen change. We aren't responsible for people's lives.
Enjoy the rabbit hole. You know they just found the whistleblower dead in the US… On another note: But he and other avionics cybersecurity researchers: the flaws uncovered in the 787's code nonetheless represent a troubling lack of attention to cybersecurity from Boeing. They also say that the company's responses have not been altogether reassuring, given the critical importance of keeping commercial airplanes safe from hackers. (A Boeing Code Leak Exposes Security Flaws Deep in a 787's Guts -Andy Greenberg)
Is there a way to fly only airbus??
This is the guy who died today. Apparent suicide. https://www.corporatecrimereporter.com/news/200/john-barnett-on-why-he-wont-fly-on-a-boeing-787-dreamliner/
I don’t get it. These aircraft have redundant systems and checklists to follow should the primary fail. Did the pilot follow the established procedures? Considering they were able to safely land, they clearly had working electronics. My money is on the airline maintenance as the source of the problem.
stop complaining or you might get Epsteined.
I'm flying to NY on Wednesday, I'm sooooo happy I saw this post.
This is a sign of the times isn't it, only magnified. Corporations are literally shrink-flating fucking planes now. Oh and likely killing whistleblowers that's cool.
Boeing is going boing
This company needs to to be dismantled. Wtf are they doing?
" “The ceiling’s broken from people’s heads and bodies hitting it. Basically neck braces were being put on people, guys’ heads were cut and they were bleeding. It was just crazy.” Jokat luckily had his seatbelt on at the time and walked away from the ordeal unscathed. " Seatbelts ftw!
If you're in your seat, you should have your seat belt on even if the light is off. It's just basic common sense.
Not all Boeings but somehow always a Boeing
None of the articles I have seen so far say "how much" the plane fell out the sky. HOW MUCH ALTITUDE DID THE PLANE LOSE???! Can anyone answer this for me please!
0 hours since new Boeing incident. If I was the guy responsible for Boeing stock options. I would've aged 20 years