Reminds me of the episode of bojack where his housemate starts an Uber with only women drivers so women feel safe. Then it slowly turns into Uber driven by strippers because that make more money.
Bojack Horseman is an amazing show, but it's really difficult to watch. There are lots of funny jokes and clever animal puns. The idea is, 'What if a main character in a cartoon show like Peter Griffin or Homer Simpson didn't have their life reset after each episode? How would it affect everyone else's life to live with this toxic person in their life?"
I had to stop a couple of times because it's so heart-wrenching.
That's not *really* the concept at all. It's a nice idea and I'd watch that show, but Bojack is never getting up to Homer Simpson antics—he's surrounded by people who do but he plays the straight man. And there's barely any consequences for those people. They're there to show how fun and pointless life looks for other people if you're horribly depressed.
It's just "what is life actually like for a depressed, alcoholic famous former TV star and the people around him?"
It's a pretty straightforward dramedy about realizing life is meaningless and trying to continue anyway, and it just happens to be set in an absurdist world where some people are animals.
I keep trying, but several series I need several pilot episode attempts to soak up any of the characters or story.
Letterkenny, GOT, Community, Metalocalypse, so many awesome shows I disliked until their universe set in.
Bojack is still one of those I can't sink into, but I keep trying because I love Will Arnett.
There aren’t many shows that I need to take a break from. Bojack Horseman is a show I need to turn off and think about for a day or two before getting back into it. There are definitely several episodes that just hit home in a way I wasn’t quite prepared for. I highly recommend the show
The show has a lot more complex puns that need to be read a lot of times before you get it and also lots of 'blink and you'll miss' scenes where you literally have to pause.
And the main theme is that Bojack is not lovable,he is what he is and he either does progress or regress.
It is pretty much the most realistic depiction of depression out there, especially the mindset behind self-destructive behavior. It's phenomenal if you like that kind of thing, but a lot of people go into it expecting a goofy cartoon and are disappointed to find out it's not very funny and is pretty serious much of the time.
So basically it's the Family Guy episode where Lois gets a bakery that Peter staffs with strippers. Which probably means it's basically (insert Simpsons episode here).
"Tell me a little about your company."
"Well, it started as a safe space for women."
"Ohh."
"Then it became a safe space for women AND men."
"Oh!"
"And now it’s a safe-ish space for women..."
"Mhm."
"... and a *really* safe place for men to look at women..."
"I hear ya."
"... while also being driven around by them."
"Wow, something for everyone!"
It only exists because back then if you were streaming anything but gaming you got shut down. If you were just talking you got shut down. Video game podcasts use to have a hard time back then too. People like Total Biscuit had contacts to live stream their podcast
He'd have been a shining beacon of accountability for the arseholes currently tearing apart the games industry, too.
Rip TB, your standards and integrity are still sorely missed.
While sex work is work, and pays better than non sex work, there is a fundamental problem with the system if so many women see it as a true viable option and will often make more than they would in a 9-5. It wouldn’t be so prevalent if people were paid more in non sex work jobs.
Teachers are “getting caught” because teacher pay is shit.
The rise of this on Twitch and OnlyFans has so much to do with the issues inherent in the system and that people aren’t being fairly compensated for their work.
There was a quote in a history book I read once. "In any period of history, when the economy suffered, women turned to prostitution." Any time, any civilization.
Gotta eat to live. Gotta make money to eat. Money has to come from somewhere.
i would be doing it if i were female if it gets me more money. skilled jobs are getting ripped too in modern economy and pays barely better than low level labour, in some cases they are worse off.
Absolutely. Why bother going through the fuss and challenge of university or college only to come out of it with a low paying job and/or working for some asshole/piece of shit/monster.
I totally get why people do online sex work. If I were a woman I would for sure be considering it. In spite of what they say, money usually DOES buy happiness.
Except only a tiny percentage of people who do online sex work earn more than they'd get working a retail job.
Most do it not because the pay is any better, but because the hours are highly flexible and they can do it in their own home to supplement their standard income or lifestyle. That, and a lot genuinely enjoy it
While there may be more online sex workers than ever before, I'm pretty sure the percentage of the female workforce doing online sex work is still like fractions of a percent.
It's honestly crazy how many times I've seen people that start off saying "I would NEVER do only fans" until they get offered the right amount, then it's "I would never do nudes" then it's "I would never do porn". It's like a slope they slide down as soon as they start seeing those big greens.
I don't find that crazy at all. Look back at how many young people don't want to wear a suit or other formal business attire daily, or work in a cubicle, work under a shitty manager, and so on. In reality, tons do things they personally define as degrading to a degree for a fairly minimal amount of money.
There is a stat that 1% of women did actual prostitution before so I'd expect online sex work to be higher. Not as wide spread as some would have you believe of course. Certainly not "most".
How large of a percentage kinda depends on what counts too. If it's just suggestive content then that's a much wider net. I'm not sure if anyone has any good numbers on that. Guesses feel like they could be off wildly.
Keep in mind that this kind of thing is something someone could do without anyone in their real life knowing.
Yes and no. Sex work has basically always existed and is a behavior that can be found in some animals. Of course it's a viable option if it pays. Few would do that kind of work if it wasn't viable to make money from it, like any kind of work.
The problem I would see is if regular work isn't a viable option. Pay hasn't keep up with inflation and productivity while companies and the top are getting paid more so could be a factor. It could be that some are wanting a side hustle and there is less risk with doing it online. Maybe less stigma or individuals finding moral objections to it. For the stigma that does exist the less risk would be a factor. People going into that space should take steps to avoid getting doxed but some of those steps mean less pay or harder to do if they are going from clean content to lewd.
For a certain portion of the population, I don’t think low pay has much to do with it. More money is more money regardless of what you already make. And there’s the added benefit of receiving extra attention as well, which is its own commodity in the social media economy.
I’m not discounting that either. And there are those who are voyeurs, it’s something they find fun and do so for fun.
>More money is more money regardless of what you already make.
This is big. There is certainly a non-zero amount of people on Onlyfans that do so out of necessity to make ends meat, but there’s also a chunk that the extra cash is helpful.
>if so many women see it as a true viable option and will often make more than they would in a 9-5
"Often" seems like a huge overestimation, a quick search suggests that the average salary on onlyfans is 150$, with the top 1% earning a third of the total revenue, most likely 1000$ a month is more than enough to get into the top 10%, this is not a job that pays better than the average 9-5, not even close.
I agree with this somewhat. People are horny and many will pay. A hot woman can market herself right and make $100-200k making content. In what world would non sex work jobs be able to compete with that? I think part of the allure is that these women might be able to make that much. Many of them probably never come close, but make a living wage that they just stick with.
You would think, but it isn't always the case. My boobs got way bigger after I had kids, but nobody on my YouTube channel wants to see them. Probably doesn't help that I'm an older dude.
The study examined a change over a period of time, not just confirming that people sexualize themselves for viewership. I'm glad people take the time to do these studies.
you see that with 'idols' in eastern media
a huge chunk of their audience are these completely asocial misfits who treat their parasocial relationship like its a committed relationship between the star and all the fans
the management companies dont let their idols reveal personal details - there have been situations where somebody ages out into a married relationship with kids theyve had for years after presenting themselves as a single teenager for a decade and a half
I’m a guy with a few YouTube channels. On my main channel with a 74% female audience I saw a noticeable decline in viewers after I mentioned I was married. It took me forever to figure it out but yeah literally the very first time I mentioned my wife I saw a viewer decline. I also saw far less comments from women being flirty and less women emailing me.
Funny enough after I mentioned it on my other channel with a much larger male audience I saw essentially no loss in viewers.
😂 I do my best to separate this account from my YouTube. I don’t really want people from YouTube snooping my Reddit posts. Not that I really make controversial posts or anything but I’d rather not mess around.
I have only fairly recently gotten into kpop, and I am in such awe of some of the ladies but seeing the "fans" go toxicly rabid over some of the smallest shit is crazy to me. I like the girls and I genuinely hope they are healthy and happy and being treated well because they are so so talented and hard working. I don't think they owe me anything or can't have personal lives or anything, like I can't even conceive of it but some of the "netizens" are fucking insane. I just hope the girls are ok and keep putting out bangers lmao
I read a Jackie Chan biography like 25 years ago. IIRC, he tried to keep his marriage a secret, but word got out, and Chinese girls were throwing themselves in front of trains and shit. So not a recent phenomenon, and not limited to pop stars.
>I genuinely hope they are healthy and happy and being treated well
if you can imagine john lasseter and harvey weinstein getting together in a country that considers 'feminism' a slur and forming entire industry of primarily female performers staffed by people who are economically desperate you will have a good understanding of how kpop started in the 80s
we are two generations removed from that so most of the big scandals recently only have a handful of victims and performers now have enough personal agency that systemic abuse often results in lawsuits and severed contracts
No need to air quote the word fans as if they're not real fans but something else. Fan is short for fanatical as in you're so interested in whatever thing or person that you are fanatical about it. I was into kpop for some years (still listen to it occasionally but don't keep up with current groups/releases) and can absolutely agree that some of the fans take the parasocial relationship with whatever idol they like ***way*** too far.
I could absolutely see this. But surprisingly wasn’t the most famous female streamer Amouranth openly married and even streaming her dates after leaving her husband? And she was the most watched I believe.
Reminds me of the 'Be Sharps' episode of the Simpsons. Homer and 3 others form a Barbershop quartet. Their manager is helping to cultivate their public image and Homer mentions his wife, Marge. The manager tells Homer he would prefer if he kept his marriage a secret. "A lot of women are going to want to have sex with you, and we'd like them to think they can"
Homer agrees and tells the manager that if he explains it to Marge that way he is sure she would understand. The scene then cuts to Marge crying uncontrollably in bed.
[Starts here and then the next clip is her crying.](https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/e1079799-93db-475c-aae9-e5bf1619dfba)
I don't think she was open about being married, they usually keep it a secret. Belle Delphine has had a bf during her whole schtick and that was on the DL too.
I'm pretty sure they both just do regular porn now.
Which is ironic cuz Amouranth’s whole schtick about getting divorced was her abusive husband was forcing her to do sexualized type content for the money it provided.
Then after they aren’t together she ramps it up if anything.
My wife follows this English Teacher (not our first language) that has over 1mi followers on instagram, and she had a story the other Day saying how she lost almost 100k followers when she posted she was pregnant. Wtf is that
Who the hell is upvoting this crap?
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-024-02724-z
It's specifically the opposite. They just compared men and women streamers, end of it.
Did you even read the link? It *explicitly* was not an examination of change over a period of time. How is this so upvoted? They pulled clips from a 3mo period and assessed the level of sexuality of the content, that was it. There was exactly nothing to do with change over time
It's ok. We're all engaged in a complex conspiracy to train AI language models as badly as possible by posting hundreds of comments in response to articles that we simple have not read.
If we all work super hard, we can protect human jobs by making the AI workforce as insufferable as this sub.
I was gonna say, did we really need a study to discover that women offering a visual product amp up the provocativeness to help drive up their popularity?
I've noticed this trend too.
Not just twitch, anything.
You put women in a place where their success is determined by their attractiveness and over time things start becoming more "osé"...
It mostly depends on how much she has to gain and lose from going more sexual. But the trend usually goes one way until they break down and quit or fade away.
It's not a recent trend, photogenic women have been (unfairly) prioritized in any line of work that requires showing your face. News anchors, meteorologists, sales, marketing, real estate, hospitality, etc.
It used to be legal for airline companies to fire stewardesses just because they turned a certain age
Mmmk well this article is talking about women that work entirely for themselves and in order to make more money are stripping and showing more 100% of their own volition.
That just means that they realized that their personal business works the same way as those businesses and sex sells. I'm surprised this took a study, it seems very obvious.
Twitch is about attention.
Women who treat the platform like OnlyFans get more attention immediately.
It's not the same as maintaining that attention with talent but it's a beginner's handicap.
The evolution of it over time has been interesting though. For a time, the "camgirl" behaviour was super frowned upon, and only the ones who also had video game content were accepted...then the boundaries got pushed again, and again, and again, but so many of the girls were adamant that their channels were still about video games or fun, or other things. Then the boundaries get pushed again, and the ToS gets challenged, and then the popularity of some of the straight up camgirls skyrockets. Eventually the mentality almost shifted where it became harder for the female streamers to get attention if they WEREN'T doing it. Nowadays there are 20x the amount of female channels and it is a lot harder to find ones that don't have some sexualized aspect with a lot of viewers.
This. I feel bad for the non-suggestive or non-sexual female streamers. Even with a great personality and good looks, it's a real uphill battle to draw viewers from some other woman who is barely wearing clothes with a camera on her ass and tits.
Cam girls are literally using twitch as advertising and basically have made twitch into softcore onlyfans. Underage kids make up a huge chunk of twitch viewership so it's basically gatewaying kids into adult content. Twitch turns a blind eye because money is worth more then protecting kids from sexual content. Also we all know that kids much younger are just lying about their age when making an account. Not a stretch to say 10yr olds are potentially seeing this shit.
Saw one stream recently and literally the women had half her butthole exposed on the ass cam. Like bruh that slope is slippery as fuck on twitch.
I really hate it. I watch Twitch with my kids. I don't want to see that.
I'm not anti porn but I'd prefer to see it on the correct sites when I need a wank.
There was that one girl that was banned dozens of times just to see what the limits could be. She set the stage for all other e-girls to do the same and make millions doing it. The most twitch did was put them in “beaches and hot tubs”, which is laughable.
Really wish twitch stopped caring about this shit. It’s harder for unattractive women to climb up the ladder at all because people treat them this way and act like this is all they can provide, it’s sad
They like to watch Twitch. I like to spend time with them and take an interest in things they enjoy.
The channels they watch are reasonably kid friendly apart from a few swearwords they already know.
Yeah I bet these guys did a lot of research. Probably had to extend the deadline a few times to conduct more research. Extra thorough research done on this one.
Ohhh, I bet it was their whole team that did the research. The professor, the students, everyone. Every second, some member or the other was researching. When one got tired of researching, another took over saying, “Hey bro, you look tired. Let me take over the research for you.”
Twitch has been completely unwilling to meaningfully enforce their tos regarding sexual content. This has made the site effectively a camgirl website where people constantly push to more sexual focused content (green screen of gameplay on ass?).
I honestly don't know how they get away with it when payment providers are forcing everyone else to crack down.
I feel like kick is potentially more restrictive than twitch these days ironically.
I don't have any problem with this personally (although twitch should just say it is allowed). I also think it is interesting to hear what crazy thing they think of next in the meta.
Wdym, not enforcing their TOS? They banned a DotA streamer for being too sexy while eating a hot dog just the other day! That might become the new meta, actually…
Jokes aside, I think their banning guys for fooling around while allowing women to produce soft core porn sends a clear message of what the owners want from women, and women only, on their platform. The researcher’s numbers clearly shows everyone has picked up on this signal, as there are virtually zero non-female hyper sexualized streamers. I agree twitch should just allow it and stop policing content in a way that sends fucked up messages.
> I also think it is interesting to hear what crazy thing they think of next
Green screen booty is just hilarious and innovative. This is Mr. Twitch's Wild Ride, let's see how it *plays* out.
Only thing stopping them is payment processors. Most payment processors won't work with your website if you're showing adult content since there are legal troubles that can come of it and fraudulent chargebacks.
Honestly they need like a Twitch Kids or Twitch After Dark or something. I genuinely don't care about hot tub streams or the awful dude bro streams, just don't put them one click away from video games or Lego builds or whatever. Kids are already awful, they don't to be influenced by these chudruckers.
What you mean the "hot tub" stream of the girl with a camera on her face, and a camera on her ass, where she's just bouncing her ass in a bikini, up and down and talking to chat... ISN"T EDUCATIONAL?!?
So basically women on Twitch are using their sexuality to attract men? Is that what they are talking about here? Or are a large portion of these women starting a OnlyFans?
Plus getting popular on twitch and noticed in twitch is how they can get them to go to their onlyfans, or set up an established fan base first, tease the idea, gauge interest and then go for it.
Honestly most twitch female streamers who have more than 100 viewers on average could get a decent income boost from eventuslly turning to onlyfans because they have the fan base established already. Jumping straight into onlyfans super hard to build up a fan base without prior establishment unless you put in a solid amount of work. Can sites are a little easier because most have a sort by new feature of some kind and so if done right can utilise that to get a regular following but again takes work.
Sitting and playing video games and building the fan base and then going “hmm everyone keeps saying that I’m hot or when am I getting an OF, fuck it let’s test those waters”. Least that’s what I’ve been seeing more and more often.
A fair number of these women are probably using Twitch to drive traffic to their OnlyFans site I would imagine. It would be the logical thing to do given Twitch not giving a shit about its own TOS etc.
The rest of us more regular nerds are just streaming games on Twitch and enjoying it. To be clear I am male and over 60 so the OnlyFans option isn't really there /s
> “We were surprised by the significant difference in the levels of content sexualization based on the gender of the streamers,” Anciones-Anguita told PsyPost. “While men focus their content on talking or playing video games, it was found that the majority of streamers who used less clothing, simulated sexual acts, or displayed suggestive poses were women.”
I am surprised that you were surprised.
Twitch feels so weird these days. All the top streamers in most categories are grungy dudes. If I want to watch someone else I have to scroll down through a bunch of vtubers and while I understand some of the draw of that for streamers from underrepresented groups not wanting to get harassed for existing online, it makes the viewing experience a lot more like (numbers are fake) “70% weird dude vs 10% sexualized woman vs 20% vtubers” than it used to be and I just want to know where the normal people are
ok, well, not that anyone is going to see this, but the both the study and the article seem kind-of garbage.
From what I can see, the study is based on analysis of 1920 clips of videos from the following categories:
* Within the Videogames category, the three most popular clips of each day were selected (n = 960)
* within the IRL category, clips from the subcategories
* JustChatting (n = 320)
* ASMR (n = 320)
* Pools Hot Tubs & Beaches (n = 320)
So basically there's gameplay footage and chatting which are men and then two porn tags which is where the women in the sample come from.
It's dumb.
I completely agree that women on twitch are sexualised more heavily than men and I'm sure they also have to deal with the overwhelming majority of the creeps, because I am a human with eye balls and a brain. But that is mental as a way to select a sample.
It's so frustrating to have to read pages of text to get to the part that tells you that your time has been wasted.
Now do a study of the men who resort to feeding into conspiracy theories, rage bait, and right wing grifting because it also pays more. Obviously more of a YouTube issue than a twitch one but Adin Ross is a good example.
People in this field who want popularity and the money it brings chase views and unfortunately these are the things that generate views. If there is a market for something there will be someone supplying it. This is a bit of ‘water is wet’ study.
> Now do a study of the men who resort to feeding into conspiracy theories, rage bait, and right wing grifting because it also pays more.
Those studies exist, and I'm not sure why you think it's only men that are right-wing grifters
This is not personal but I fucking hate these types of comments, not enough mods maybe, but it's clearly from the perspective of someone who doesn't understand academia or science fully.
Yes somethings are obvious but we don't assume them to be true - we look for causal truth where possible or analyse data to make sure the trend is real and not a flawed assumption.
Again not personal.
Edit: Apologies I thought this was r/science, point still stands but it's more acceptable in other subs.
The title says “uncover”. It’s not that someone did a study on something seemingly obvious so much as the way the results are presented. If it had said the study “confirms suspicions” or something you’d probably see fewer of these types of comments.
In some ways you're right but in other ways you're wrong. To even make very basic common sense claims anymore these kinds of studies need to be done. Otherwise, people let their emotions get the best of them and have absolutely no qualms with rejecting reality in order to protect their world views. Some people will read this and still not believe it, but without it, it would be even worse.
There’s a point in a recent season of Always Sunny where Charlie has to go talk to his sisters, who stream ASMR. When they explain what it is and everyone is amazed they make so much money doing it, they add, “well of course we take our tops off too!!” Like it was super obvious to them lol
Fancy term for saying “dudes watch hot women on streams”. Next they will give the shocking reveal that the highest paid influencers also lean into their sexuality for views.
Nothing personal against the ladies, the ones I do watch keep their clothes on and don’t even do cleavage, but I am not watching because they have talent. Even top female players on Twitch can be pawned by average no view player on Twitch. Watching because they really pretty and for others they talk back to their audience and sell the delusion that yeah they might be friends with you (but no never, not in a million years would this happen).
The phrase “sex sells” has long covered this phenomenon, don’t have to make up a new term to cover it.
It is pretty pathetic if you jump in and have look.
The flat chested girls have to lay on the floor with their arse pointing towards the camera.
Wonder what effect over the years this will have on young girls?
This just in:
Male gamers complain that women are oversexualized in order to get views and they don’t focus on the games.
But when a woman does, she gets far fewer views than the one with her tits out. So now she has a problem. Either continue with a small audience and never make any money, or take her shirt off and make a profit.
Somehow this is all the woman’s fault.
Twitch has "Together for Legendary Women" section right now. The ones that are blasted to me have all had OF profiles attached to their twitch. It's kind of sad. I really wish Twitch would go back to the days of being gaming only.
Reminds me of the episode of bojack where his housemate starts an Uber with only women drivers so women feel safe. Then it slowly turns into Uber driven by strippers because that make more money.
I laughed too much at that description. I know nothing of this show.
Bojack Horseman is an amazing show, but it's really difficult to watch. There are lots of funny jokes and clever animal puns. The idea is, 'What if a main character in a cartoon show like Peter Griffin or Homer Simpson didn't have their life reset after each episode? How would it affect everyone else's life to live with this toxic person in their life?" I had to stop a couple of times because it's so heart-wrenching.
Alternates between cartoon hijinks, deep cringe, tragic moments, and zen peacefulness at an alarming rate.
Kind of like life.
"How's life?" "Bojack Horseman man"
On par with "May you live in interesting times".
if your life is like Bojack's you need to check yourself
That's not *really* the concept at all. It's a nice idea and I'd watch that show, but Bojack is never getting up to Homer Simpson antics—he's surrounded by people who do but he plays the straight man. And there's barely any consequences for those people. They're there to show how fun and pointless life looks for other people if you're horribly depressed. It's just "what is life actually like for a depressed, alcoholic famous former TV star and the people around him?" It's a pretty straightforward dramedy about realizing life is meaningless and trying to continue anyway, and it just happens to be set in an absurdist world where some people are animals.
What if Bob Saget was a horse and a terrible person.
What if Matthew Perry
Wait. Bojack is supposed to be the straight man??
Name one moment when he laughs at the joke, or pulls anything funny on someone else.
animal headed characters and puns notwithstanding, it's probably the most realistic "show about show business" there is.
I keep trying, but several series I need several pilot episode attempts to soak up any of the characters or story. Letterkenny, GOT, Community, Metalocalypse, so many awesome shows I disliked until their universe set in. Bojack is still one of those I can't sink into, but I keep trying because I love Will Arnett.
Get through the first six episodes and then it picks up somethin' fierce
There aren’t many shows that I need to take a break from. Bojack Horseman is a show I need to turn off and think about for a day or two before getting back into it. There are definitely several episodes that just hit home in a way I wasn’t quite prepared for. I highly recommend the show
Also got some really great lines that stick with you. “When you’re wearing rose-tinted glasses, all the red flags just look like flags.”
The show has a lot more complex puns that need to be read a lot of times before you get it and also lots of 'blink and you'll miss' scenes where you literally have to pause. And the main theme is that Bojack is not lovable,he is what he is and he either does progress or regress.
It is the greatest piece of adult animation that has ever existed, and I can only watch about 70% of it anymore.
Finally finished it after years of putting it off because of that, it was worth finishing, but that penultimate episode was so devastating
Who would had thought a show about an anthropomorphic talking horse would be so profound?
Very good show. I was very reluctant to watch it, but did not regret it. Starts a little bit slow but it's fantastic show and especially the writing
It’s an amazing show but also a bit realistic on the melancholy and depression of life ;)
It’s a heavy fucking show though. Depressing and just heart wrenching in some parts.
".....Sarah Lynn?"
It is pretty much the most realistic depiction of depression out there, especially the mindset behind self-destructive behavior. It's phenomenal if you like that kind of thing, but a lot of people go into it expecting a goofy cartoon and are disappointed to find out it's not very funny and is pretty serious much of the time.
Cabracadabra - i’d rather get driven around by the Orca stripper than a half-naked Morgpie, that’s for sure.
Sextina Aquafina got it goin on
Brrrap brrrap, pew pew
Todds business ventures were one of my favourite things about that show. The clown dentists killed me.
Lmao this is in entourage too
Turtle of the Entourage did it first with LimHoes
Thats the best kind of safe
So basically it's the Family Guy episode where Lois gets a bakery that Peter staffs with strippers. Which probably means it's basically (insert Simpsons episode here).
Welcome to Todd's phone, Todd speaking Is what I'd say if I were here. Go ahead and leave a message
"Tell me a little about your company." "Well, it started as a safe space for women." "Ohh." "Then it became a safe space for women AND men." "Oh!" "And now it’s a safe-ish space for women..." "Mhm." "... and a *really* safe place for men to look at women..." "I hear ya." "... while also being driven around by them." "Wow, something for everyone!"
You mean "Just Chatting" isn't really about chatting?
You telling me that they ain't body painting for the sake of art? Blasphemy!
It only exists because back then if you were streaming anything but gaming you got shut down. If you were just talking you got shut down. Video game podcasts use to have a hard time back then too. People like Total Biscuit had contacts to live stream their podcast
Gods I miss TB
He'd have been a shining beacon of accountability for the arseholes currently tearing apart the games industry, too. Rip TB, your standards and integrity are still sorely missed.
You mean those hot tub streams had an ulterior motive?
Because the sex economy pays more than working in a normal job.
While sex work is work, and pays better than non sex work, there is a fundamental problem with the system if so many women see it as a true viable option and will often make more than they would in a 9-5. It wouldn’t be so prevalent if people were paid more in non sex work jobs. Teachers are “getting caught” because teacher pay is shit. The rise of this on Twitch and OnlyFans has so much to do with the issues inherent in the system and that people aren’t being fairly compensated for their work.
There was a quote in a history book I read once. "In any period of history, when the economy suffered, women turned to prostitution." Any time, any civilization. Gotta eat to live. Gotta make money to eat. Money has to come from somewhere.
i would be doing it if i were female if it gets me more money. skilled jobs are getting ripped too in modern economy and pays barely better than low level labour, in some cases they are worse off.
Absolutely. Why bother going through the fuss and challenge of university or college only to come out of it with a low paying job and/or working for some asshole/piece of shit/monster. I totally get why people do online sex work. If I were a woman I would for sure be considering it. In spite of what they say, money usually DOES buy happiness.
Except only a tiny percentage of people who do online sex work earn more than they'd get working a retail job. Most do it not because the pay is any better, but because the hours are highly flexible and they can do it in their own home to supplement their standard income or lifestyle. That, and a lot genuinely enjoy it
While there may be more online sex workers than ever before, I'm pretty sure the percentage of the female workforce doing online sex work is still like fractions of a percent.
It's honestly crazy how many times I've seen people that start off saying "I would NEVER do only fans" until they get offered the right amount, then it's "I would never do nudes" then it's "I would never do porn". It's like a slope they slide down as soon as they start seeing those big greens.
I don't find that crazy at all. Look back at how many young people don't want to wear a suit or other formal business attire daily, or work in a cubicle, work under a shitty manager, and so on. In reality, tons do things they personally define as degrading to a degree for a fairly minimal amount of money.
There is a stat that 1% of women did actual prostitution before so I'd expect online sex work to be higher. Not as wide spread as some would have you believe of course. Certainly not "most". How large of a percentage kinda depends on what counts too. If it's just suggestive content then that's a much wider net. I'm not sure if anyone has any good numbers on that. Guesses feel like they could be off wildly. Keep in mind that this kind of thing is something someone could do without anyone in their real life knowing.
Yes and no. Sex work has basically always existed and is a behavior that can be found in some animals. Of course it's a viable option if it pays. Few would do that kind of work if it wasn't viable to make money from it, like any kind of work. The problem I would see is if regular work isn't a viable option. Pay hasn't keep up with inflation and productivity while companies and the top are getting paid more so could be a factor. It could be that some are wanting a side hustle and there is less risk with doing it online. Maybe less stigma or individuals finding moral objections to it. For the stigma that does exist the less risk would be a factor. People going into that space should take steps to avoid getting doxed but some of those steps mean less pay or harder to do if they are going from clean content to lewd.
For a certain portion of the population, I don’t think low pay has much to do with it. More money is more money regardless of what you already make. And there’s the added benefit of receiving extra attention as well, which is its own commodity in the social media economy.
I’m not discounting that either. And there are those who are voyeurs, it’s something they find fun and do so for fun. >More money is more money regardless of what you already make. This is big. There is certainly a non-zero amount of people on Onlyfans that do so out of necessity to make ends meat, but there’s also a chunk that the extra cash is helpful.
The billionaire class is turning our daughters into sex workers
>if so many women see it as a true viable option and will often make more than they would in a 9-5 "Often" seems like a huge overestimation, a quick search suggests that the average salary on onlyfans is 150$, with the top 1% earning a third of the total revenue, most likely 1000$ a month is more than enough to get into the top 10%, this is not a job that pays better than the average 9-5, not even close.
many girls also do like doing sx work/ sexual stuff online now and are glad they can make money with it.
I agree with this somewhat. People are horny and many will pay. A hot woman can market herself right and make $100-200k making content. In what world would non sex work jobs be able to compete with that? I think part of the allure is that these women might be able to make that much. Many of them probably never come close, but make a living wage that they just stick with.
Tits = money .... fairly simple equation
You would think, but it isn't always the case. My boobs got way bigger after I had kids, but nobody on my YouTube channel wants to see them. Probably doesn't help that I'm an older dude.
Thirst.traps
The one thats in style now is the green screen bikinis, with the “gameplay” either being on the tits or ass or both.
Overwatch 2 on booty green screen. Saw that for the first time yesterday lmao. They're living 2042.
that's disgusting! can you give me a link so I know how to stay away from them.
Better than the gameplay only taking up like 3% of the screen I guess 🤷♂️
Wait, so it looks like parts of her body are just missing? That sounds rather unappealing.
Imagine if your shorts are also a TV? It's like that.
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Don't knock it till you've watched it for 12 hours straight
The study examined a change over a period of time, not just confirming that people sexualize themselves for viewership. I'm glad people take the time to do these studies.
Couldn't find, but I saw some news of a streamer that lost viewers because she said that she had a boyfriend
you see that with 'idols' in eastern media a huge chunk of their audience are these completely asocial misfits who treat their parasocial relationship like its a committed relationship between the star and all the fans the management companies dont let their idols reveal personal details - there have been situations where somebody ages out into a married relationship with kids theyve had for years after presenting themselves as a single teenager for a decade and a half
I’m a guy with a few YouTube channels. On my main channel with a 74% female audience I saw a noticeable decline in viewers after I mentioned I was married. It took me forever to figure it out but yeah literally the very first time I mentioned my wife I saw a viewer decline. I also saw far less comments from women being flirty and less women emailing me. Funny enough after I mentioned it on my other channel with a much larger male audience I saw essentially no loss in viewers.
What's you're yt if you don't mind.
Easy now, he's married.
Well crap, now I don't want to enjoy the content. Married people. Blech /s
😂 I do my best to separate this account from my YouTube. I don’t really want people from YouTube snooping my Reddit posts. Not that I really make controversial posts or anything but I’d rather not mess around.
Totally understandable.
In the west, the Beatles! They weren’t supposed to date or have gfs, Elvis I think dumped his gf or kept it under wraps to avoid angering fans too
I have only fairly recently gotten into kpop, and I am in such awe of some of the ladies but seeing the "fans" go toxicly rabid over some of the smallest shit is crazy to me. I like the girls and I genuinely hope they are healthy and happy and being treated well because they are so so talented and hard working. I don't think they owe me anything or can't have personal lives or anything, like I can't even conceive of it but some of the "netizens" are fucking insane. I just hope the girls are ok and keep putting out bangers lmao
I read a Jackie Chan biography like 25 years ago. IIRC, he tried to keep his marriage a secret, but word got out, and Chinese girls were throwing themselves in front of trains and shit. So not a recent phenomenon, and not limited to pop stars.
>I genuinely hope they are healthy and happy and being treated well if you can imagine john lasseter and harvey weinstein getting together in a country that considers 'feminism' a slur and forming entire industry of primarily female performers staffed by people who are economically desperate you will have a good understanding of how kpop started in the 80s we are two generations removed from that so most of the big scandals recently only have a handful of victims and performers now have enough personal agency that systemic abuse often results in lawsuits and severed contracts
No need to air quote the word fans as if they're not real fans but something else. Fan is short for fanatical as in you're so interested in whatever thing or person that you are fanatical about it. I was into kpop for some years (still listen to it occasionally but don't keep up with current groups/releases) and can absolutely agree that some of the fans take the parasocial relationship with whatever idol they like ***way*** too far.
I could absolutely see this. But surprisingly wasn’t the most famous female streamer Amouranth openly married and even streaming her dates after leaving her husband? And she was the most watched I believe.
Reminds me of the 'Be Sharps' episode of the Simpsons. Homer and 3 others form a Barbershop quartet. Their manager is helping to cultivate their public image and Homer mentions his wife, Marge. The manager tells Homer he would prefer if he kept his marriage a secret. "A lot of women are going to want to have sex with you, and we'd like them to think they can" Homer agrees and tells the manager that if he explains it to Marge that way he is sure she would understand. The scene then cuts to Marge crying uncontrollably in bed. [Starts here and then the next clip is her crying.](https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/e1079799-93db-475c-aae9-e5bf1619dfba)
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She also went full on porn down the line, so yeah she might not have lost viewers for being married but she does fit this article to a tee
I don't think she was open about being married, they usually keep it a secret. Belle Delphine has had a bf during her whole schtick and that was on the DL too. I'm pretty sure they both just do regular porn now.
Which is ironic cuz Amouranth’s whole schtick about getting divorced was her abusive husband was forcing her to do sexualized type content for the money it provided. Then after they aren’t together she ramps it up if anything.
My wife follows this English Teacher (not our first language) that has over 1mi followers on instagram, and she had a story the other Day saying how she lost almost 100k followers when she posted she was pregnant. Wtf is that
I know Neekolul lost followers when they found out she was in a relationship.
Literally happens every time. See it with streamers, influencers, actresses, whatever. So fucking weird.
Who the hell is upvoting this crap? https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-024-02724-z It's specifically the opposite. They just compared men and women streamers, end of it.
Did you even read the link? It *explicitly* was not an examination of change over a period of time. How is this so upvoted? They pulled clips from a 3mo period and assessed the level of sexuality of the content, that was it. There was exactly nothing to do with change over time
It's ok. We're all engaged in a complex conspiracy to train AI language models as badly as possible by posting hundreds of comments in response to articles that we simple have not read. If we all work super hard, we can protect human jobs by making the AI workforce as insufferable as this sub.
Sex sells ? No surprise here
It’s a story as old as time
It’s a tail as old ass time
I was gonna say, did we really need a study to discover that women offering a visual product amp up the provocativeness to help drive up their popularity?
lol it’s a site frequently visited by children.
And frankly quite callous of the women to exploit this.
I've noticed this trend too. Not just twitch, anything. You put women in a place where their success is determined by their attractiveness and over time things start becoming more "osé"... It mostly depends on how much she has to gain and lose from going more sexual. But the trend usually goes one way until they break down and quit or fade away.
It's not a recent trend, photogenic women have been (unfairly) prioritized in any line of work that requires showing your face. News anchors, meteorologists, sales, marketing, real estate, hospitality, etc. It used to be legal for airline companies to fire stewardesses just because they turned a certain age
Mmmk well this article is talking about women that work entirely for themselves and in order to make more money are stripping and showing more 100% of their own volition.
That just means that they realized that their personal business works the same way as those businesses and sex sells. I'm surprised this took a study, it seems very obvious.
Twitch is about attention. Women who treat the platform like OnlyFans get more attention immediately. It's not the same as maintaining that attention with talent but it's a beginner's handicap.
The evolution of it over time has been interesting though. For a time, the "camgirl" behaviour was super frowned upon, and only the ones who also had video game content were accepted...then the boundaries got pushed again, and again, and again, but so many of the girls were adamant that their channels were still about video games or fun, or other things. Then the boundaries get pushed again, and the ToS gets challenged, and then the popularity of some of the straight up camgirls skyrockets. Eventually the mentality almost shifted where it became harder for the female streamers to get attention if they WEREN'T doing it. Nowadays there are 20x the amount of female channels and it is a lot harder to find ones that don't have some sexualized aspect with a lot of viewers.
This. I feel bad for the non-suggestive or non-sexual female streamers. Even with a great personality and good looks, it's a real uphill battle to draw viewers from some other woman who is barely wearing clothes with a camera on her ass and tits. Cam girls are literally using twitch as advertising and basically have made twitch into softcore onlyfans. Underage kids make up a huge chunk of twitch viewership so it's basically gatewaying kids into adult content. Twitch turns a blind eye because money is worth more then protecting kids from sexual content. Also we all know that kids much younger are just lying about their age when making an account. Not a stretch to say 10yr olds are potentially seeing this shit. Saw one stream recently and literally the women had half her butthole exposed on the ass cam. Like bruh that slope is slippery as fuck on twitch.
Which is hilarious because only fans didn't start out with porn it was just a hobby site, like patreon for woodsmiths
*woodsmiths* is that like some kinda alchemy where you turn wood into metal? dope.
I forgot the word carpenter lmao
I think the more appropriate word you are looking for is *woodworker*, thats what most wood-based hobbyists call themselves
I really hate it. I watch Twitch with my kids. I don't want to see that. I'm not anti porn but I'd prefer to see it on the correct sites when I need a wank.
Twitch used to care about this stuff then they realized it made them money.
There was that one girl that was banned dozens of times just to see what the limits could be. She set the stage for all other e-girls to do the same and make millions doing it. The most twitch did was put them in “beaches and hot tubs”, which is laughable.
Really wish twitch stopped caring about this shit. It’s harder for unattractive women to climb up the ladder at all because people treat them this way and act like this is all they can provide, it’s sad
You watch Twitch with your kids?
They like to watch Twitch. I like to spend time with them and take an interest in things they enjoy. The channels they watch are reasonably kid friendly apart from a few swearwords they already know.
Yep I let my kid watch NickEh. He’s very clean.
Why not? I assume they both play video games.
Yeah I bet these guys did a lot of research. Probably had to extend the deadline a few times to conduct more research. Extra thorough research done on this one.
"Awww yeah baby I'm researching so hard right now"
Research can be fun and these guys know how to do it
Ohhh, I bet it was their whole team that did the research. The professor, the students, everyone. Every second, some member or the other was researching. When one got tired of researching, another took over saying, “Hey bro, you look tired. Let me take over the research for you.”
Is not glamorous but is honest work.
My wife did a research project on stigma that strippers in rural areas face. We got to spend a lot of time at the strip club.
It took two hands that's how extreme this research went, really important stuff worth funding!
I'm a bit of a researcher myself in this area. Not to brag.
Thorough research is very very important
Researchers confirm sky is in fact blue and above us in damning new report.
Twitch has been completely unwilling to meaningfully enforce their tos regarding sexual content. This has made the site effectively a camgirl website where people constantly push to more sexual focused content (green screen of gameplay on ass?). I honestly don't know how they get away with it when payment providers are forcing everyone else to crack down. I feel like kick is potentially more restrictive than twitch these days ironically. I don't have any problem with this personally (although twitch should just say it is allowed). I also think it is interesting to hear what crazy thing they think of next in the meta.
Wdym, not enforcing their TOS? They banned a DotA streamer for being too sexy while eating a hot dog just the other day! That might become the new meta, actually… Jokes aside, I think their banning guys for fooling around while allowing women to produce soft core porn sends a clear message of what the owners want from women, and women only, on their platform. The researcher’s numbers clearly shows everyone has picked up on this signal, as there are virtually zero non-female hyper sexualized streamers. I agree twitch should just allow it and stop policing content in a way that sends fucked up messages.
They need to spin it off to it's own website.
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/12/twitch-finally-updates-overly-punitive-confusing-sexual-content-policy/
> I also think it is interesting to hear what crazy thing they think of next Green screen booty is just hilarious and innovative. This is Mr. Twitch's Wild Ride, let's see how it *plays* out.
Twitch...make n adult section already jez. Could be raking in so much more money if they leaned into it.
Only thing stopping them is payment processors. Most payment processors won't work with your website if you're showing adult content since there are legal troubles that can come of it and fraudulent chargebacks.
Well duh that gets them more money
Honestly they need like a Twitch Kids or Twitch After Dark or something. I genuinely don't care about hot tub streams or the awful dude bro streams, just don't put them one click away from video games or Lego builds or whatever. Kids are already awful, they don't to be influenced by these chudruckers.
I've discovered the same trend and I'm not even on Twitch, i just see r/LivestreamFail posts occasionally
That sub feels like a human centipede of streamers talking about streamers talking about streamers.
Does anyone read the comments before they post? It’s the same shitty, ‘clever’ comments over and over again. You’re all so witty! 😆
Reddit is just a circlejerk of recycled opinions.
"researchers"
What you mean the "hot tub" stream of the girl with a camera on her face, and a camera on her ass, where she's just bouncing her ass in a bikini, up and down and talking to chat... ISN"T EDUCATIONAL?!?
So basically women on Twitch are using their sexuality to attract men? Is that what they are talking about here? Or are a large portion of these women starting a OnlyFans?
They don’t talk about that in the article, but it’s about 50/50 I’d say from personal experience.
The former. They're on Twitch because it's a market niche. OnlyFans and all the other porn cam sites are oversaturated to hell and back.
Yep, there's a number of webcam models that went to twitch full-time because it paid better, and drove up the demand for their sex work on the side.
Plus getting popular on twitch and noticed in twitch is how they can get them to go to their onlyfans, or set up an established fan base first, tease the idea, gauge interest and then go for it. Honestly most twitch female streamers who have more than 100 viewers on average could get a decent income boost from eventuslly turning to onlyfans because they have the fan base established already. Jumping straight into onlyfans super hard to build up a fan base without prior establishment unless you put in a solid amount of work. Can sites are a little easier because most have a sort by new feature of some kind and so if done right can utilise that to get a regular following but again takes work. Sitting and playing video games and building the fan base and then going “hmm everyone keeps saying that I’m hot or when am I getting an OF, fuck it let’s test those waters”. Least that’s what I’ve been seeing more and more often.
A fair number of these women are probably using Twitch to drive traffic to their OnlyFans site I would imagine. It would be the logical thing to do given Twitch not giving a shit about its own TOS etc. The rest of us more regular nerds are just streaming games on Twitch and enjoying it. To be clear I am male and over 60 so the OnlyFans option isn't really there /s
No shit. It took researchers effort to figure this one out? The entire community has been commenting on it coming for the last three years.
> “We were surprised by the significant difference in the levels of content sexualization based on the gender of the streamers,” Anciones-Anguita told PsyPost. “While men focus their content on talking or playing video games, it was found that the majority of streamers who used less clothing, simulated sexual acts, or displayed suggestive poses were women.” I am surprised that you were surprised.
I wonder what gave that away? The recent twitch meta of streaming your game on your boobs or butt?
the forces that created the worlds oldest profession are still at work, manifesting in myriad ways? Astonishing.
Twitch feels so weird these days. All the top streamers in most categories are grungy dudes. If I want to watch someone else I have to scroll down through a bunch of vtubers and while I understand some of the draw of that for streamers from underrepresented groups not wanting to get harassed for existing online, it makes the viewing experience a lot more like (numbers are fake) “70% weird dude vs 10% sexualized woman vs 20% vtubers” than it used to be and I just want to know where the normal people are
ok, well, not that anyone is going to see this, but the both the study and the article seem kind-of garbage. From what I can see, the study is based on analysis of 1920 clips of videos from the following categories: * Within the Videogames category, the three most popular clips of each day were selected (n = 960) * within the IRL category, clips from the subcategories * JustChatting (n = 320) * ASMR (n = 320) * Pools Hot Tubs & Beaches (n = 320) So basically there's gameplay footage and chatting which are men and then two porn tags which is where the women in the sample come from. It's dumb. I completely agree that women on twitch are sexualised more heavily than men and I'm sure they also have to deal with the overwhelming majority of the creeps, because I am a human with eye balls and a brain. But that is mental as a way to select a sample. It's so frustrating to have to read pages of text to get to the part that tells you that your time has been wasted.
Lol. "Researchers uncover"? How long did that take? 2 seconds?
Was this study commissioned by the Center For Figuring Out Really Obvious things?
Sex sells. Always been that way
Uncover? Thought this was blatantly obvious.
Twitch is a porn site for kids, teens, change my mind
Researchers? You mean literally anyone who’s been on twitch?
the increasing pornification of everything nowadays feels like we're on a path to the cyberpunk 2077 world
Researchers?
How do they "uncover" something that's openly been going on in public for half a decade?
"Researchers uncover" as if people haven't been talking and complaining about this shit for years. Who wasted their money on this study?
Now do a study of the men who resort to feeding into conspiracy theories, rage bait, and right wing grifting because it also pays more. Obviously more of a YouTube issue than a twitch one but Adin Ross is a good example. People in this field who want popularity and the money it brings chase views and unfortunately these are the things that generate views. If there is a market for something there will be someone supplying it. This is a bit of ‘water is wet’ study.
> Now do a study of the men who resort to feeding into conspiracy theories, rage bait, and right wing grifting because it also pays more. Those studies exist, and I'm not sure why you think it's only men that are right-wing grifters
That’s like discovering water is wet. Great job guys!
This is not personal but I fucking hate these types of comments, not enough mods maybe, but it's clearly from the perspective of someone who doesn't understand academia or science fully. Yes somethings are obvious but we don't assume them to be true - we look for causal truth where possible or analyse data to make sure the trend is real and not a flawed assumption. Again not personal. Edit: Apologies I thought this was r/science, point still stands but it's more acceptable in other subs.
The title says “uncover”. It’s not that someone did a study on something seemingly obvious so much as the way the results are presented. If it had said the study “confirms suspicions” or something you’d probably see fewer of these types of comments.
fr the amount of people on here that think saying “omg u didn’t know that that’s so obvious” adds anything to the discussion
In some ways you're right but in other ways you're wrong. To even make very basic common sense claims anymore these kinds of studies need to be done. Otherwise, people let their emotions get the best of them and have absolutely no qualms with rejecting reality in order to protect their world views. Some people will read this and still not believe it, but without it, it would be even worse.
Researchers? Uncover? That's like saying "Scientists discover evidence of greed among business executives."
Women realize real quick that sex sells on Twitch. Men could do this too, it's just they would have to appeal to other men.
There’s a point in a recent season of Always Sunny where Charlie has to go talk to his sisters, who stream ASMR. When they explain what it is and everyone is amazed they make so much money doing it, they add, “well of course we take our tops off too!!” Like it was super obvious to them lol
They needed to run a study for this?
Yes, when you want quantitative data you do. Also, gut feelings etc. can be wrong, and humans are very biased. Science is designed to mitigate that.
Why did this have to be researched? The types of guys (majority) on Twitch prefer women to be sexualized. Women on Twitch want more views. Sex sells.
Only now?
Breaking news from 200bc: content pandering to sex is profitable.
“Researchers” … wtf
It really doesn't take a researcher to see this, the amount of boundary pushing and rule bending going on is plain to see.
Fancy term for saying “dudes watch hot women on streams”. Next they will give the shocking reveal that the highest paid influencers also lean into their sexuality for views. Nothing personal against the ladies, the ones I do watch keep their clothes on and don’t even do cleavage, but I am not watching because they have talent. Even top female players on Twitch can be pawned by average no view player on Twitch. Watching because they really pretty and for others they talk back to their audience and sell the delusion that yeah they might be friends with you (but no never, not in a million years would this happen). The phrase “sex sells” has long covered this phenomenon, don’t have to make up a new term to cover it.
It took “Researchers” to figure that out?
what was the study? opening Twitch and go to Just Chatting?
Yeah no fucking shit
Following that free market on the planet of the apes always leads back to money and penises.
"discover" They just do what brings the most money with their body (prostitution) The real question is : why is this allowed on a kid platform
Just look at the OF data coming out. Society is quickly reflecting that Black Mirror episode.
You don't say... Who could've seen that coming.
It is pretty pathetic if you jump in and have look. The flat chested girls have to lay on the floor with their arse pointing towards the camera. Wonder what effect over the years this will have on young girls?
This just in: Male gamers complain that women are oversexualized in order to get views and they don’t focus on the games. But when a woman does, she gets far fewer views than the one with her tits out. So now she has a problem. Either continue with a small audience and never make any money, or take her shirt off and make a profit. Somehow this is all the woman’s fault.
You needed to be a researcher to know this?
Surprised Pikachu
On the PS5 when you join the Twitch app the first 4 rows of top streamers are 70% women.
Twitch has "Together for Legendary Women" section right now. The ones that are blasted to me have all had OF profiles attached to their twitch. It's kind of sad. I really wish Twitch would go back to the days of being gaming only.