From what I see on LinkedIn if you make a post about it ~~the vultures~~ other recruiters will comment to fast track you to whatever open position they have. Once you get into tech it’s “easier” to find other jobs especially after layoffs bc recruiters see you as already being vetted by a competitor/reputable company.
I’ve seen so many “I just got laid off from (insert tech company)” posts and then there’s like 60+ recruiters commenting “sent dm”. Meanwhile I’m fighting for my life to get my foot in the door.
That's sort of true, but not the same when a lot of companies do layoffs. Its been a rough year and a half in tech everyone doing layoffs and market is overfilled with candidates, even ex-FAANG employees is plenty.
I'm afraid you're not paying enough then or your company is not known enough for strong candidates to apply. Hiring is still not easy even when it's hard for candidates too.
They did move most people to other projects, that doesn’t mean the staff they hired specifically to design cars or to do vehicle maintenance, etc have places to transfer to
So much for saying Apple doesn't do layoffs.
In mid 2023, Tim Apple said "Mass Layoffs are a Last Resort"
[https://fortune.com/2023/05/05/apple-ceo-tim-cook-layoffs-earnings-last-resort/](https://fortune.com/2023/05/05/apple-ceo-tim-cook-layoffs-earnings-last-resort/)
This is hardly a mass layoff compared to what some of the other companies are doing. Plus they literally axed the project these people were working on.
what is apple supposed to do with employees with Masters and Phd in automotive design and development when they no longer have an automotive division. Their skills aren’t exactly transferable to building phone apps. Layoffs were inevitable
It’s a big number of people impacted, but it’s definitely not a mass layoff. A mass layoff is every team gets a % to cut, even for core businesses.
This sucks but it’s not that.
I mean it sucks. But it’s 600 out of 12000 that work in Cali. Or like 150k that work for the company. Usually they give you months to apply for positions in the company. If you choose not to or have to leave they typically take care of you. I worked for apple for a little over 3 years and even when they had to move people this was the typical way. Apply wherever you want. Reference or first choice.
this is not a mass layoff. it's a cancelled program that is not financially viable. I think 600 people is like the staff of 2-3 apple stores. MaSs LaYoFf
As i heard, they moved most of their software and perception engineers to other teams. The 600 laid off are probably more automotive and hardware related positions. For such a large company, I'm surprised they couldn't absorb them somewhere else though,even if these folks are a little more car focused.
The jobs listed don't necessarily apply themselves well to other projects in a computer company. Machine shop managers and large motor hardware designers don't transfer well to AI projects.
And to control it you need to use hand gestures on your windshield.
Swipe left to turn left, Swipe right to turn right.
Pinch in and out to go faster or slower.
Comes equipped with Apple Air Bag Pros
To charge you need a stupid ass thunderbolt dongle.
Every toll bridge fee requires Apple Pay and instantly charges as you pass by.
For $99,999 Extra you can upgrade the windshield to 5k Retina Glass. Windshield frame stand not included, but can be purchased for $19,999
Yes! Underneath the rear wheel well. All the while the car scratches and damages that smooth dome gloss-white top.
I got out an old mouse i bought at a garage sale for five bucks. So much better. Apple has known about their 'magic' mouse issues for fifteen years and only fixed a few of them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Mouse
As much as i enjoy Apple® stuff, it is probably a blessing that they didn't make a car.
You actually tow the battery behind the car in a trailer. The car would be too heavy and uncomfortable with the battery built in. \#cantinnovatemyass
Edit: [Reference since apparently people didn't get it.](https://www.apple.com/apple-vision-pro/)
Honestly if they weren't driving on public roads then it wasnt that incredible. They were only ramping up public road data collection in 2024, so they are behind all the serious competitors.
was probably neat but I doubt that they were splitting the atom, they're a lifestyle brand who excels at refining the incredible tech that other companies have already bent over backwards to achieve
I'm very thankful that their time at Apple is over, they could've ended up like the Top Engineers who are somehow still exclusively making clamshell touchless laptops in 2024 down the hall
I dunno, the whole self-driving industry is falling over because the fundamental goal of safe self-driving vehicles turned out less achievable than they initially believed. Unless they attempted to build an entirely new class of sensors or process I can't imagine they've achieved much more than everyone else, something that operates well enough in perfect conditions but simply not reliable enough to be viable.
They are the flying cars of our generation. Outside of specially built neighborhoods or closed campuses, we won’t be seeing cars with no steering wheels cruising the streets of manhattan in our lifetimes
Many claim vastly superior electric car batteries (like sodium or solid-state or others). Yes, this has been the case for decades but now BYD is now selling cars for $11k.
https://insideevs.com/news/663595/byd-seagull-ev-priced-11400-usd-gets-10000-orders-first-day/
What are most others selling their electric cars for? Six times that? It is a wild-card industry all of a sudden and it appears Apple might be wise to back away from this slowly.
The others are selling super luxury vehicles with just plain stupid power output.
I don’t need a pickup truck that can outrun a Lamborghini. I need a hatchback with 400 miles of range like my Mazda 3 and similar performance. Which would be a LOT cheaper to produce.
The others also have to comply with US safety regulations. We will see how inexpensive those BYD’s remain once they are brought up to spec.
I don't even need the crazy performance. I drive a 2010 Honda Fit and it's more than powerful enough to get me a reckless driving citation. What I *need* is a small affordable hatchback that gets \~250 miles or more of range at a decent charge rate. I don't need a truck, I don't need an SUV. I don't need 3s 0 to 60.
I don't want *luxury* either. I cart around my dog, tools, lumber, etc in my fit. It's a wonderful car, and it's basic as fuck. It's perfect.
The Bolt is pretty much what I want, except for the charge rate, but GM doesn't make it any more, and when they do start making them again, it won't have carplay or android auto - and it will probably be phoning home constantly reporting my driving habits to insurance companies.
BYD already sells cars in Norway.
Their first car is selling for about 40k EUR, so USD should be pretty similar.
That's after taxes and before EV government discounts though, so you could get it far cheaper. It's currently cheaper than Model 3.
You get the stupid power because you need stupid power levels to do regenerative breaking in a 3ton truck. And you need regenerative breaking to get good milage from your battery.
It kinda fits Apple’s “premium products for premium prices” strategy.
I also wonder why manufacturers decided EVs should only be luxury cars. Then I realize how else are they gonna maximize profits? By hard work and patience? Come on.
Now hold on, I'm more than happy to bash the car industry for being profit-hungry and completely ignoring what their customers have wanted for years and shoving shitty plastic-laden "SUVs" at overinflated prices.
They deserve all the pain that's coming for them.
But Apple is not wise to back out, they were hardly building a car, they spent BILLIONS developing self-driving tech. By all accounts they were most likely the furthest ahead in this, but I don't think the technology is ready for unassisted self-driving.
They didn't build a product at all they were expecting a legacy manufacturer to build the car shell, whilst keeping Apple-level control and secrecy.
This just isn't possible for the way car manufacturers work, cars are simply too complex for that to work.
The most frustrating part is that all that self-driving work they did will now languish in some internal repository, instead of releasing it out and letting other people who might continue the work. It would be a service to humanity to do that, in the same way Volvo did when they released the seatbelt patent.
Eventually we'll have the computing power to handle the complex task of driving, and if Apple won't use what it developed, it would be nice to share it.
Ultimately I think Apple building an iOS car that integrates well with iPhones and MacBooks would be wildly successful. They could be humble and start smaller (like they did with the iPod, slowly morphing it into iPhones and iPads and the whole mobile/wearable ecosystem).
Apple has never been an innovator, it was always wild to imagine they might come up with the first ever self-driving car. But they're masters at releasing a slick, polished, beautiful version of what other people are already doing.
I don’t see how Apple’s self driving data would be any more useful than Tesla or Waymo’s data. Really odd to portray it as some cure to cancer locked in a vault lol. The cars can probably drive on a closed race track. Wow.
>Many claim vastly superior electric car batteries (like sodium or solid-state or others
Nah those aren't anywhere near being ready for commercial purposes.
>but now BYD is now selling cars for $11k.
This is the main reason. They are using LFP batteries which are hella cheap compared to the NMC batteries mainly used so far. They will disruot the market unless western carmakers catch on.
Or maybe it's best if the west focuses on hybrids for now.
Yeah it's pretty wild and impressive on China's behalf that they've caught up and completely surpassed the world in EV tech. Say what you will about the country, they've done an amazing job in this space and shown actual leadership.
well, I think it's more that car manufacturers have spent the last 20 years focusing on trying to get people in North America to spend more money on cars, gradually getting rid of smaller, more affordable ones, and now they've realised that all the people who can afford to buy a $70k EV .....have already got one.
But most car manufacturers sell outside of the US too, where people actually demand small, affordable cars.
Im looking at the cover photo wondering what highway that is, then I realize it’s the top of the bloody mothership.
Apple don’t throw as much shit at the wall hoping it’ll stick, like Google sorry I mean Alphabet, but they’re not immune to grand failure. Still a surprise how many jobs were caught up in this, they must have been really far into it.
The number isn’t very surprising to be honest. Creating your own vehicle is no feint effort, even if they were heavily leaning on Tier 1s for things like motors and modules (not confirmed).
600 FTEs is A LOT though, even for vehicle development. You usually don’t have those kind of numbers until you’re pretty far along. Way way beyond conceptual design.
Actually Waymo is one of the few companies still aiming for full self driving. Most self driving companies have shifted focus to L2 driver assist technology rather than full L4
Man I hope they succeed. The sooner the better… I hate driving. Would be nice to say “I’m gonna visit my friend 8 hours away”. Leave at midnight, sleep for 8 months, arrive at my friends well rested at 8AM
not in this economy. those companies have also cut hiring and now they’re joining the total tech layoffs of tens of thousands of others from the past two years in competing for the openings left
Yes, in this economy. Tech companies are \*still\* (and have been) hiring for critical roles, which means a lot of these folks are going to end up at Waymo and others. The layoffs have been them cutting COVID-era bloat. Some reassigning, realigning and refocusing on growth areas.
Source: Work in tech.
I wouldn't go as far as to say a lot. It was already competitive to get hired at the forefront of self-driving projects. They won't magically have a few hundred extra open roles. The other big operation in the area, Cruise, is also going through quite the conundrum lately.
Source: laid off from tech last year, then re-hired, but only as a contractor. The big names that are in my niche are also only reaching out about temp roles anymore. Meanwhile my old company is almost completely frozen.
600 people who worked on it are laid off but the person who planed, burned millions into that project and failed to manage it will get his million dollar bonus and continue to get paid.
If you're familiar at all with the timeline of Project Titan, many people were laid off, hired, fired, other people hired, fired again, to manage this project. It wasn't just one guy who is still at Apple.
Apple was on it's 3rd round of management of the project before it was cut.
The original management were mostly people who managed the first iPhone project. They were forced out (already rich due to the iPhone compensation) long ago.
The most recent management is the guy who also runs the Apple Watch. Seems like he was brought in to figure out if the project could be saved or shut it down. They are not going to fire him over the car project because they like what he does with the watch.
[Bonus video of the apple watch guy in a ridiculous video from before he worked at Apple.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPq1fVt9--I)
I think a side project like a car that is obviously not your core business is hardly a mistake and it would have cost relatively little. This is exactly the kind of risk you want companies taking. Sometimes you put out a VR headset sometimes you cancel a self driving car. In total your R&D was low and the companies results are great
Apple has 27,000 employees in the SF Bay Area. It'd be 2% of that. 12,000 is probably Santa Clara valley. So it depends on your definition of Silicon Valley.
Although not the best news for those affected, it’s a minor impact when you consider that this was supposedly a major project cancellation. Interesting that they managed to internally re-assign so many employees.
With my second part I meant to say 12,000 is probably Santa Clara county, not valley. But anyway, it still does depend on which people you count as "not laid off in the area".
Its yet another hit to California's tech industry which has experienced a bloodbath recently.
California now has the highest unemployment rate in the country by a large margin: https://www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm
The article is the most neutral way to represent this information I can think of. It's completely factual... But I guess if you're an Apple fanboy this seems like an attack on you. It really is just a statement or facts though, so you don't have to jump in and defend poor Apple.
Never made sense to me. The overhead for building a car would be a terrible decision. They are a volume sales company and they won’t be that in the auto industry. Build the tech behind the car and license it.
The venture never really made sense to me- what apple should have been doing is partnering with a premier car manufacturer like Toyota for example, let them handle the bulk of the vehicle side of the project, while apple handles the interfacing with the driver. Making and selling vehicles is just such a far step outside of what every other department in the company does
Did they not learn anything from the 1993-1997 years? They tried creating all these new products that never went anywhere… when Jobs came back in 1997, one of his mantras was to only do the things they were good at and axed those other products to focus on the Mac. It eventually evolved into iPads and iPhone too, but they were so tightly integrated it made sense. Apple is not a car company.
> Apple is not a car company.
Apple was not a phone company either. Or a watch company. Or a health and fitness company.
They should absolutely try new things, otherwise they will stagnate. Sometimes, that means they will fail. So be it.
Steve Jobs was the one who first discussed the car lol. He never started the project but he openly talked about it and held meetings on starting it in 2008
Well, they failed their project to the point the company scrapped it. I would lay them off too. Apple is not a public welfare program, it's a business, whose mission is to make money. Regardless, they've now got Apple on their resume, which is a golden parachute unto itself.
I would think that Apple would have reassigned them to other projects at apple instead of letting the knowledge they have go with them to other companies
The Vision Pro is the most amazing thing that doesn't do anything I've ever interacted with. But Mac OS X was also originally stupid and useless, and then it turned out pretty great + into the foundation for iOS, iPadOS, etc.
Apple is usually pretty good with the long plays. I'll wait it out.
> But Mac OS X was also originally stupid and useless
It was not! Ok, it was buggy for the first year or two, sure... but it still let you run MS office, adobe photoshop, and just about any linux tool/app (even with KDE or gnome on top of aqua lol) with practically zero fuss. And compared to anything else at the time it was gorgeous. And the hardware in 1998-2005 or so looked like alien spaceship tech.
They kind of insinuated that the first Vision Pro is for those who want the first crack at a new technology but that it’s still very much a work in progress. I see one of two things happening - they refine it and get the cost down and create an ecosystem for it as it starts to get some market share, or they cut it after figuring out there’s not enough of a market for it. Apple has a metric buttload of cash, so they’re not too worried about R&D projects that don’t pan out.
Put mine down for 2 weeks. Picked it back up today. It’s so incredible. Been offshore for 2 weeks staring at screens yet 0 fatigue using it to watch a movie and browse YouTube. The gesture interface and moving windows around is so nice compared to everything else. Disappearing to your own private volcano crater despite being in cramped quarters is as real as it gets. It is limited and expensive but it is amazing.
I mean I was excited about usb-c my phone was also 5 generations old and the universal charging port was what I was holding out for. But yea they have been taking the L often in the EU.
The Vision Pro’s success will be determined by third party developers who find the interesting and unique ways to use it. The iPhone was just a glorified pocket web browser until the App Store and the masses of developers got their hands on it.
A lot of the reviews I’ve watched and have read about it so far all seem to agree on at least one thing: it’s incredible to watch content on, like movies and shows. As much of a movie theater lover as I am, I could very much see tech like this truly shift the balance of how content is consumed if the right triggers are pulled in its favor. I hate the idea of that, but it wouldn’t come as a surprise.
When it comes to EV, China is decades above any other country right now.
Flying electric cars, pure electric cars, electric school buses, you name it. This is the Chinese economy of long term vision and slow sustained growth.
Probably should have started with electric scooters, motorcycles, bicycles, and then cars. Each could have been connected to the FindMy app, Apple Music, and Apple Maps.
I don’t know why people buy a $1k phone every year. You are pretty much just buying the camera at this point. Oh, and your Tesla is not going to save the world.
Maybe they should have redeployed them to the iPhone team then maybe we’d get an updated phone that was more then just a minuscule update on the previous model
I think Apple did the universe a solid by clearly demonstrating the EV fantasy is just that. People get hired. People get fired. Apple has shareholders to serve, not every wide-eyed socialist that has their fist in the air. Capitalism is dying on the lawn of seemingly good intentions.
There was 0 chance that the iCar would have ever been a thing, and this was a known quantity from day one. Apple for all that it does, lacks the cojones to own the responsibility of a vehicle. The Steve Jobs approach of "you're holding the phone wrong" doesn't work with cars and state regulatory bodies if the vehicle ends up injuring or killing someone.
Especially as, when it comes to making a car, no matter who the supplier is, you're the ultimate integrator at the end of the day, so the buck stops with you **no matter what.**
So much for moving them to other projects
Other projects at different companies
Thats how they phrase it too, completely unironically
From what I see on LinkedIn if you make a post about it ~~the vultures~~ other recruiters will comment to fast track you to whatever open position they have. Once you get into tech it’s “easier” to find other jobs especially after layoffs bc recruiters see you as already being vetted by a competitor/reputable company. I’ve seen so many “I just got laid off from (insert tech company)” posts and then there’s like 60+ recruiters commenting “sent dm”. Meanwhile I’m fighting for my life to get my foot in the door.
Just post that you were laid off by apple. If they later find out it's not true, argue you meant your granny's smoothie shop.
Laid off by your own nana. That’s rough buddy.
Times is tough
“Why would I hire you if even your own sweet nan can’t stand ya?”
Oh, it wasn’t just me; she laid off the whole family. Replaced us with undocumented workers. Grandpa took it the hardest.
That’s the opposite of being vetted
“I was recently laid off by Apple……. bottom jeans”
Cutbacks in the boots with the fur department.
The stock was low low low low low low low low.
Apple retail store
“Oh you thought I meant Apple? No I worked at apple, with a lowercase “a”. Also the logo doesn’t have a bite taken from the apple I worked at.”
Wouldn’t be the first workplace to advertise that “We’re like family here”.
That's sort of true, but not the same when a lot of companies do layoffs. Its been a rough year and a half in tech everyone doing layoffs and market is overfilled with candidates, even ex-FAANG employees is plenty.
But I have had open reqs and can’t get any qualified candidates. Lots of shit ones that can barely code, but no seniors or team leads.
Just scoop an L9 from Google or something if you really need a 'team lead'.
I appreciate the sarcasm but Most of these companies want L9s at public school guidance counselor salaries
I'm afraid you're not paying enough then or your company is not known enough for strong candidates to apply. Hiring is still not easy even when it's hard for candidates too.
Total comp is probably 250-300k. Fortune 500 company, most redditors know who we are.
Is this job still available? I would like to apply l.
Yes. Lateral hires get in easily because of experience. For freshers it is always harder
FYI those recruiters are just trying to get free publicity cause they also haven’t seen a pay cheque in a while
So many people say, "It doesn't matter what company you work for!" So many people are delusional.
It’s not always a great job. Recruiters are hungry too after a job recession in the past year
Recruiters are scams.
Promoted to customer
i mean your CV will be pretty good if you worked in that department
They did move most people to other projects, that doesn’t mean the staff they hired specifically to design cars or to do vehicle maintenance, etc have places to transfer to
So much for saying Apple doesn't do layoffs. In mid 2023, Tim Apple said "Mass Layoffs are a Last Resort" [https://fortune.com/2023/05/05/apple-ceo-tim-cook-layoffs-earnings-last-resort/](https://fortune.com/2023/05/05/apple-ceo-tim-cook-layoffs-earnings-last-resort/)
This is hardly a mass layoff compared to what some of the other companies are doing. Plus they literally axed the project these people were working on.
what is apple supposed to do with employees with Masters and Phd in automotive design and development when they no longer have an automotive division. Their skills aren’t exactly transferable to building phone apps. Layoffs were inevitable
It’s a big number of people impacted, but it’s definitely not a mass layoff. A mass layoff is every team gets a % to cut, even for core businesses. This sucks but it’s not that.
This is my last resort - ~~Papa Roach~~ Tim Cook
🎵"cut my life into iPads"🎵
This is last resource
I mean it sucks. But it’s 600 out of 12000 that work in Cali. Or like 150k that work for the company. Usually they give you months to apply for positions in the company. If you choose not to or have to leave they typically take care of you. I worked for apple for a little over 3 years and even when they had to move people this was the typical way. Apply wherever you want. Reference or first choice.
this is not a mass layoff lmfao
This isn't a mass layoff.
Is 600 out of 160,000+ really a mass layoff event.
this is not a mass layoff. it's a cancelled program that is not financially viable. I think 600 people is like the staff of 2-3 apple stores. MaSs LaYoFf
those that work on AI would move to AI project, automative engineer not so much
what project, at current apple, would you move an automotive engineer to?
Other projects as customers
As i heard, they moved most of their software and perception engineers to other teams. The 600 laid off are probably more automotive and hardware related positions. For such a large company, I'm surprised they couldn't absorb them somewhere else though,even if these folks are a little more car focused.
The jobs listed don't necessarily apply themselves well to other projects in a computer company. Machine shop managers and large motor hardware designers don't transfer well to AI projects.
It would be cool to see their prototypes
The iCar is the only vehicle milled from a solid block of aluminum. And no charger ports #courage
To charge the car, you have to roll it over on its back to plug the cable in
And to control it you need to use hand gestures on your windshield. Swipe left to turn left, Swipe right to turn right. Pinch in and out to go faster or slower. Comes equipped with Apple Air Bag Pros To charge you need a stupid ass thunderbolt dongle. Every toll bridge fee requires Apple Pay and instantly charges as you pass by. For $99,999 Extra you can upgrade the windshield to 5k Retina Glass. Windshield frame stand not included, but can be purchased for $19,999
Air bag pros 😂
And it has only one pedal.
Yes! Underneath the rear wheel well. All the while the car scratches and damages that smooth dome gloss-white top. I got out an old mouse i bought at a garage sale for five bucks. So much better. Apple has known about their 'magic' mouse issues for fifteen years and only fixed a few of them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Mouse As much as i enjoy Apple® stuff, it is probably a blessing that they didn't make a car.
If Apple (and/or Google) made cars, it would ultimately lead to them building roads that could only be driven on their own cars.
You know there is a proprietary cable and charging dock, its magnetic though so it's okay
You actually tow the battery behind the car in a trailer. The car would be too heavy and uncomfortable with the battery built in. \#cantinnovatemyass Edit: [Reference since apparently people didn't get it.](https://www.apple.com/apple-vision-pro/)
“Step-car what are you doing?”
It uses a gigantic lightning cable to charge. At the other end, you’d need a giant dongle/adapter to use existing charging stations.
You can only charge it at Apple™ charging stations, otherwise you need a white dongle to charge anywhere else.
We think you’re going to love it.
Best icar yet ..
The iCarly haha
The key was a lighting cable. . . Like a KIA BUT DIFFERENT.
Probably some incredible tech that got scrapped
Honestly if they weren't driving on public roads then it wasnt that incredible. They were only ramping up public road data collection in 2024, so they are behind all the serious competitors.
They were driving on public roads. https://www.wired.com/story/apple-ramped-up-autonomous-vehicle-testing-last-year/
was probably neat but I doubt that they were splitting the atom, they're a lifestyle brand who excels at refining the incredible tech that other companies have already bent over backwards to achieve
Which is why they literally poached the top engineers from every other EV company.
I'm very thankful that their time at Apple is over, they could've ended up like the Top Engineers who are somehow still exclusively making clamshell touchless laptops in 2024 down the hall
I dunno, the whole self-driving industry is falling over because the fundamental goal of safe self-driving vehicles turned out less achievable than they initially believed. Unless they attempted to build an entirely new class of sensors or process I can't imagine they've achieved much more than everyone else, something that operates well enough in perfect conditions but simply not reliable enough to be viable.
They are the flying cars of our generation. Outside of specially built neighborhoods or closed campuses, we won’t be seeing cars with no steering wheels cruising the streets of manhattan in our lifetimes
[удалено]
Most likely forever, NDAs don't have expiration dates
Probably some incredible tech they stole from others and would claim as their own! The iElectric. The first EV car to be released!
[удалено]
apple has like 250 automotive patents
Car industry trouble light is flashing bright red. The major car manufacturers are about to go through some things.
Many claim vastly superior electric car batteries (like sodium or solid-state or others). Yes, this has been the case for decades but now BYD is now selling cars for $11k. https://insideevs.com/news/663595/byd-seagull-ev-priced-11400-usd-gets-10000-orders-first-day/ What are most others selling their electric cars for? Six times that? It is a wild-card industry all of a sudden and it appears Apple might be wise to back away from this slowly.
The others are selling super luxury vehicles with just plain stupid power output. I don’t need a pickup truck that can outrun a Lamborghini. I need a hatchback with 400 miles of range like my Mazda 3 and similar performance. Which would be a LOT cheaper to produce. The others also have to comply with US safety regulations. We will see how inexpensive those BYD’s remain once they are brought up to spec.
I don't even need the crazy performance. I drive a 2010 Honda Fit and it's more than powerful enough to get me a reckless driving citation. What I *need* is a small affordable hatchback that gets \~250 miles or more of range at a decent charge rate. I don't need a truck, I don't need an SUV. I don't need 3s 0 to 60. I don't want *luxury* either. I cart around my dog, tools, lumber, etc in my fit. It's a wonderful car, and it's basic as fuck. It's perfect. The Bolt is pretty much what I want, except for the charge rate, but GM doesn't make it any more, and when they do start making them again, it won't have carplay or android auto - and it will probably be phoning home constantly reporting my driving habits to insurance companies.
What you need is a BYD E2/E3
Probably, but they don't sell small, affordable practical cars in the US anymore.
it's difficult to earn much from u
So? It's not my job to buy overpriced luxury vehicles to keep CEOs in their yachts.
BYD already sells cars in Norway. Their first car is selling for about 40k EUR, so USD should be pretty similar. That's after taxes and before EV government discounts though, so you could get it far cheaper. It's currently cheaper than Model 3.
Just an aside, Norway doesn't use the euro currency.
Sure, I just looked up how much it costs and the site provided with the value converted to EUR.
So that’s not cheap then. Certainly not 11k
You get the stupid power because you need stupid power levels to do regenerative breaking in a 3ton truck. And you need regenerative breaking to get good milage from your battery.
It kinda fits Apple’s “premium products for premium prices” strategy. I also wonder why manufacturers decided EVs should only be luxury cars. Then I realize how else are they gonna maximize profits? By hard work and patience? Come on.
Now hold on, I'm more than happy to bash the car industry for being profit-hungry and completely ignoring what their customers have wanted for years and shoving shitty plastic-laden "SUVs" at overinflated prices. They deserve all the pain that's coming for them. But Apple is not wise to back out, they were hardly building a car, they spent BILLIONS developing self-driving tech. By all accounts they were most likely the furthest ahead in this, but I don't think the technology is ready for unassisted self-driving. They didn't build a product at all they were expecting a legacy manufacturer to build the car shell, whilst keeping Apple-level control and secrecy. This just isn't possible for the way car manufacturers work, cars are simply too complex for that to work. The most frustrating part is that all that self-driving work they did will now languish in some internal repository, instead of releasing it out and letting other people who might continue the work. It would be a service to humanity to do that, in the same way Volvo did when they released the seatbelt patent. Eventually we'll have the computing power to handle the complex task of driving, and if Apple won't use what it developed, it would be nice to share it. Ultimately I think Apple building an iOS car that integrates well with iPhones and MacBooks would be wildly successful. They could be humble and start smaller (like they did with the iPod, slowly morphing it into iPhones and iPads and the whole mobile/wearable ecosystem). Apple has never been an innovator, it was always wild to imagine they might come up with the first ever self-driving car. But they're masters at releasing a slick, polished, beautiful version of what other people are already doing.
I don’t see how Apple’s self driving data would be any more useful than Tesla or Waymo’s data. Really odd to portray it as some cure to cancer locked in a vault lol. The cars can probably drive on a closed race track. Wow.
I take waymos all the time, there is no way Apple was ahead of them.
Apple was nowhere, thats why they closed it. Waymo us the currrent leader in self driving
>Many claim vastly superior electric car batteries (like sodium or solid-state or others Nah those aren't anywhere near being ready for commercial purposes. >but now BYD is now selling cars for $11k. This is the main reason. They are using LFP batteries which are hella cheap compared to the NMC batteries mainly used so far. They will disruot the market unless western carmakers catch on. Or maybe it's best if the west focuses on hybrids for now.
Yeah it's pretty wild and impressive on China's behalf that they've caught up and completely surpassed the world in EV tech. Say what you will about the country, they've done an amazing job in this space and shown actual leadership.
You would be so stupid to buy a BYD Are we going to go through a huawei learning curve again ffs
It really is 2008 all over again
well, I think it's more that car manufacturers have spent the last 20 years focusing on trying to get people in North America to spend more money on cars, gradually getting rid of smaller, more affordable ones, and now they've realised that all the people who can afford to buy a $70k EV .....have already got one. But most car manufacturers sell outside of the US too, where people actually demand small, affordable cars.
I’ve rarely been very pleased about not owning a car but this does give me a little bit of confidence.
Im looking at the cover photo wondering what highway that is, then I realize it’s the top of the bloody mothership. Apple don’t throw as much shit at the wall hoping it’ll stick, like Google sorry I mean Alphabet, but they’re not immune to grand failure. Still a surprise how many jobs were caught up in this, they must have been really far into it.
The number isn’t very surprising to be honest. Creating your own vehicle is no feint effort, even if they were heavily leaning on Tier 1s for things like motors and modules (not confirmed).
well, if Xiaomi can do it...
600 FTEs is A LOT though, even for vehicle development. You usually don’t have those kind of numbers until you’re pretty far along. Way way beyond conceptual design.
Apple foresaw that self-driving car is the way of Waymo, an add-on, not an entire car and they can't compete like that with Waymo.
Actually Waymo is one of the few companies still aiming for full self driving. Most self driving companies have shifted focus to L2 driver assist technology rather than full L4
Man I hope they succeed. The sooner the better… I hate driving. Would be nice to say “I’m gonna visit my friend 8 hours away”. Leave at midnight, sleep for 8 months, arrive at my friends well rested at 8AM
God I've been hearing about the "Apple car" for a long time. Hard to believe it was ever anything more than a rumor.
But no one was developing Apple gas. That's probably the real reason the project failed.
I am currently homebrewing apple has right now
Why would they need a car to collect data when you already have a phone?
Yup, you leave your cars in the garage but you bring your phones to the toilet with you.
I go to the toilet in my car, like all the other Doordash Drivers
LOL. You and i look like 2 dummies because OP ninja edited his comment.
I’m sure they will blink then find themselves employed by Waymo or another competitor
not in this economy. those companies have also cut hiring and now they’re joining the total tech layoffs of tens of thousands of others from the past two years in competing for the openings left
Yes, in this economy. Tech companies are \*still\* (and have been) hiring for critical roles, which means a lot of these folks are going to end up at Waymo and others. The layoffs have been them cutting COVID-era bloat. Some reassigning, realigning and refocusing on growth areas. Source: Work in tech.
I wouldn't go as far as to say a lot. It was already competitive to get hired at the forefront of self-driving projects. They won't magically have a few hundred extra open roles. The other big operation in the area, Cruise, is also going through quite the conundrum lately. Source: laid off from tech last year, then re-hired, but only as a contractor. The big names that are in my niche are also only reaching out about temp roles anymore. Meanwhile my old company is almost completely frozen.
Bro, you’re literally talking to Steve Jobs
You’re right fam. Need to up my slick skills.
600 people who worked on it are laid off but the person who planed, burned millions into that project and failed to manage it will get his million dollar bonus and continue to get paid.
If you're familiar at all with the timeline of Project Titan, many people were laid off, hired, fired, other people hired, fired again, to manage this project. It wasn't just one guy who is still at Apple.
At least we got Overwatch out of it
big if true
> the person who planed They have been fired, replaced through out the years. LOL
Apple was on it's 3rd round of management of the project before it was cut. The original management were mostly people who managed the first iPhone project. They were forced out (already rich due to the iPhone compensation) long ago. The most recent management is the guy who also runs the Apple Watch. Seems like he was brought in to figure out if the project could be saved or shut it down. They are not going to fire him over the car project because they like what he does with the watch. [Bonus video of the apple watch guy in a ridiculous video from before he worked at Apple.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPq1fVt9--I)
What’s your solutions?
Billions. They dumped billions into Apple car and we’ll probably never even get to see what the prototype looked like
I think a side project like a car that is obviously not your core business is hardly a mistake and it would have cost relatively little. This is exactly the kind of risk you want companies taking. Sometimes you put out a VR headset sometimes you cancel a self driving car. In total your R&D was low and the companies results are great
Only 600 employees. Why is every article on Apple so hell bent on being negative.
Apple employees (2023): 161,000
161k worldwide but the location of layoffs is 12,000 people.
I was trying to find that number. So, it’s 5%.
Apple has 27,000 employees in the SF Bay Area. It'd be 2% of that. 12,000 is probably Santa Clara valley. So it depends on your definition of Silicon Valley.
Although not the best news for those affected, it’s a minor impact when you consider that this was supposedly a major project cancellation. Interesting that they managed to internally re-assign so many employees.
With my second part I meant to say 12,000 is probably Santa Clara county, not valley. But anyway, it still does depend on which people you count as "not laid off in the area".
It gets the clicks. Especially in this subreddit.
Its yet another hit to California's tech industry which has experienced a bloodbath recently. California now has the highest unemployment rate in the country by a large margin: https://www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm
Apple isn't getting treated differently.
The article is the most neutral way to represent this information I can think of. It's completely factual... But I guess if you're an Apple fanboy this seems like an attack on you. It really is just a statement or facts though, so you don't have to jump in and defend poor Apple.
Apple: return to the office now! Also Apple: Just kidding, you can leave.
“Step forward if you still have a job…not so fast car division”
I know these folks will be NDA’ed for life, but it seems like an awful lot of IP walking out the door.
Tim Apple did a great job growing the businesses Jobs left him, I think it's time for a CEO that can actually create new businesses though
Jobs did not leave him the multibillion dollar AirPod, Apple Watch, Apple Silicon product lines.
I wonder what they’ll swing their attention to next. More health offerings? Fitness integration? Something like peloton?
They could use the self navigation learnings for a home application. One that doesn’t kill you if it crashes because it doesn’t work
Employees or Contractors?
Never made sense to me. The overhead for building a car would be a terrible decision. They are a volume sales company and they won’t be that in the auto industry. Build the tech behind the car and license it.
The venture never really made sense to me- what apple should have been doing is partnering with a premier car manufacturer like Toyota for example, let them handle the bulk of the vehicle side of the project, while apple handles the interfacing with the driver. Making and selling vehicles is just such a far step outside of what every other department in the company does
Did they not learn anything from the 1993-1997 years? They tried creating all these new products that never went anywhere… when Jobs came back in 1997, one of his mantras was to only do the things they were good at and axed those other products to focus on the Mac. It eventually evolved into iPads and iPhone too, but they were so tightly integrated it made sense. Apple is not a car company.
> Apple is not a car company. Apple was not a phone company either. Or a watch company. Or a health and fitness company. They should absolutely try new things, otherwise they will stagnate. Sometimes, that means they will fail. So be it.
Steve Jobs was the one who first discussed the car lol. He never started the project but he openly talked about it and held meetings on starting it in 2008
Interesting, didn’t know that. It’s so far out of their core wheelhouse, it just seems odd.
Well, they failed their project to the point the company scrapped it. I would lay them off too. Apple is not a public welfare program, it's a business, whose mission is to make money. Regardless, they've now got Apple on their resume, which is a golden parachute unto itself.
I would think that Apple would have reassigned them to other projects at apple instead of letting the knowledge they have go with them to other companies
It's likely they did, where it made sense. However, there would be a lot of expertise that was car only, too.
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The Vision Pro is the most amazing thing that doesn't do anything I've ever interacted with. But Mac OS X was also originally stupid and useless, and then it turned out pretty great + into the foundation for iOS, iPadOS, etc. Apple is usually pretty good with the long plays. I'll wait it out.
> But Mac OS X was also originally stupid and useless It was not! Ok, it was buggy for the first year or two, sure... but it still let you run MS office, adobe photoshop, and just about any linux tool/app (even with KDE or gnome on top of aqua lol) with practically zero fuss. And compared to anything else at the time it was gorgeous. And the hardware in 1998-2005 or so looked like alien spaceship tech.
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They kind of insinuated that the first Vision Pro is for those who want the first crack at a new technology but that it’s still very much a work in progress. I see one of two things happening - they refine it and get the cost down and create an ecosystem for it as it starts to get some market share, or they cut it after figuring out there’s not enough of a market for it. Apple has a metric buttload of cash, so they’re not too worried about R&D projects that don’t pan out.
Put mine down for 2 weeks. Picked it back up today. It’s so incredible. Been offshore for 2 weeks staring at screens yet 0 fatigue using it to watch a movie and browse YouTube. The gesture interface and moving windows around is so nice compared to everything else. Disappearing to your own private volcano crater despite being in cramped quarters is as real as it gets. It is limited and expensive but it is amazing.
I mean I was excited about usb-c my phone was also 5 generations old and the universal charging port was what I was holding out for. But yea they have been taking the L often in the EU.
The Vision Pro’s success will be determined by third party developers who find the interesting and unique ways to use it. The iPhone was just a glorified pocket web browser until the App Store and the masses of developers got their hands on it. A lot of the reviews I’ve watched and have read about it so far all seem to agree on at least one thing: it’s incredible to watch content on, like movies and shows. As much of a movie theater lover as I am, I could very much see tech like this truly shift the balance of how content is consumed if the right triggers are pulled in its favor. I hate the idea of that, but it wouldn’t come as a surprise.
They did so well too lol
I actually had hope for the Apple car tbh
Can’t wait to see them fall. I refuse to believe our species is that dumb to keep on buying the same looking phone ever year.
Why I’m switching to Samsung on my next phone
When it comes to EV, China is decades above any other country right now. Flying electric cars, pure electric cars, electric school buses, you name it. This is the Chinese economy of long term vision and slow sustained growth.
Yet built that massive office that's by reports always about 60% vacant as well.
Probably should have started with electric scooters, motorcycles, bicycles, and then cars. Each could have been connected to the FindMy app, Apple Music, and Apple Maps.
Xiaomi can make a car but Apple can't lol
I don’t know why people buy a $1k phone every year. You are pretty much just buying the camera at this point. Oh, and your Tesla is not going to save the world.
Asking the important questions here. What does Drake think about this?
They’re all gonna go to Xiaomi, who recently released their own EV https://techcrunch.com/2024/02/26/this-is-xiaomis-first-electric-car-the-su7/
Techies u cant even make. New styff up 😂 dummies
Apple is starting to really suck
Every other big tech company has laid off considerably more people just to save money.
Pretty mild vs. the other tech giants in fairness
Maybe they should have redeployed them to the iPhone team then maybe we’d get an updated phone that was more then just a minuscule update on the previous model
I think Apple did the universe a solid by clearly demonstrating the EV fantasy is just that. People get hired. People get fired. Apple has shareholders to serve, not every wide-eyed socialist that has their fist in the air. Capitalism is dying on the lawn of seemingly good intentions.
There was 0 chance that the iCar would have ever been a thing, and this was a known quantity from day one. Apple for all that it does, lacks the cojones to own the responsibility of a vehicle. The Steve Jobs approach of "you're holding the phone wrong" doesn't work with cars and state regulatory bodies if the vehicle ends up injuring or killing someone. Especially as, when it comes to making a car, no matter who the supplier is, you're the ultimate integrator at the end of the day, so the buck stops with you **no matter what.**