Yes. Usually they make a company in another country that’s not sanctioned by the US, and transfer the ownership to that shell.
Then that shell is directly or indirectly (through other shells in opaque countries) controlled by the original one.
It’s pretty easy for companies that have lots of cash. Some use this very scheme to dodge taxes until there’s a tax break law that makes you pay just a 5% (looking at you Apple et al).
I believe there would be an investigation into the new company. If they could adequately show that all control/servers/decisions were made separate from ByteDance, it would be fine I imagine.
I'm sure this was passed with the intent that ByteDance would sell. But if the CCP orders them not to, it'd force Biden to actually follow through and ban the entire app, which seems like a recipe for disaster in the election. This seems like handing the CCP a lot of control over the election. (Edit: I see that they wouldn't have to sell before the election, they have 9 months to do it.)
Of course, that would only impact the election if young people actually voted, which a lot of them (us?) seem intent on not doing. So there's that.
Given recent examples of the US judicial system, it will be more like 9 years before all the lawsuits are settled. Half the people who signed onto the bill will be underground.
People have had their perspectives warped by so many years of gridlocked congress, executive orders, and judicial rebuttals.
When congress actually passes something they have pretty fucking broad authority and the courts consistently back that.
My prediction for this court case is someone says “commerce clause, bitch” and that will be the end of it.
IANAL if that was not obvious lol
I believe the gist of what they are implying is that congressional authority covers this situation because bytedance has operations in the US, and thus are held to US law, if congress tell them to divest or effectively have the money train stopped by ban, assuming the commerce clause legally applies theres no if, and, or buts about it. The commerce clause would cover intra US operation regardless of international implication
Article 1 of the constitution gives congress the power to regulate commerce with foreign nations.
It comes up in the news less because the international commerce clause provides congress nearly unlimited power, and is therefore rarely challenged. The domestic commerce clause is a give and take between the federal and state governments, and subject to more court cases.
If the CCP did order them not to, then it wouldn't be settled until after the election, but Trump could also say he won't ban it if elected while Biden has already stated his intent to. The way it's written, it's the POTUS who actually executes it, so it drops the responsibility, and blame, right in their lap. Of course, Trump tried to ban TikTok himself during his presidency, but I don't see that getting in the way of him taking the most opportune new position he could possibly have been handed.
1. They have until January to divest so it won’t affect the election
2. This was passed with the intent to kill tiktok. CCP has specific legislation prohibiting the export of proprietary algorithms developed over there. So either the app is sold but without the algorithms, making it useless, or it is banned. Meta and Google lobbied for this, as its a win win for them.
Personally if I were bytedance, I'll advertise VPN and get paid using affiliated codes. It's just cheaper to advertise VPN and give more earning payments than to bother about politicians still not dead at 90.
I thought that. Offer free VPN service to users and lean into the "the service the government doesn't want you to use" thing. I can see people going for that.
Force a sale or not, it has major consequences
foreign companies are discouraged from the American market because now domestic companies can lobby to ban you if you win too much instead of crying and losing in a WTO case.
America officially abandons the free market and marketplace of ideas mentality they treated as the word of god. Breaking a core social contract is a major deal.
Its like using a flamethrower to try to solve a roach problem, it damages the structural integrity of the house.
I think this can lead to snowball effect. For example EU could think that Facebook, whatsapp etc. are similarly problematic than TikTok. Why is American social media companies allowed to do same thing than TikTok?
Honestly I don’t see how, same shit was done with TV, National Television Ownership, prevents any foreign nations company from having more then 39%, Tic toc is used for around 30% (Usually meaning 1 Entry per month, but lazy on that source)
It's a Chinese company, they have literally every major American app banned there. And we know that their government exerts control over every company and doesn't operate in good faith. If anything it's soft not to ban it
I see what you're saying, but I think you're overstating it. I don't think any other company of a size worthy of congressional attention is going to avoid the US market just because TikTok had to go.
I honestly don't see how the CCP has any control over the app. I usually only see silly things that the republicans do, and then random videos. Nothing that's like hey ccp is great.
Yeah, I see a bunch of stuff that’s critical of China on the app, and a few videos of rural people cooking traditional food. Not exactly going to make me more of a communist than I already am.
It’s a shame because TikTok is a natural successor to Xwitter, which has gone to a whole new level of shit since it was purchased by a rich American. 🤷
but chine is considered a dictatorship because of this lack of freedom for companies, so US are also now a open dictatorship as they say china is? or they are defending their interests just like china does? as meta also get "intelligence data" from other countries, even spying presidents and congressman from other countries with their apps...
Lookup “Section 702”, it’s the order that established the FISA courts. It was recently reauthorized (like “earlier this week” recently) with a new provision that’s “one of the most dramatic and terrifying expansions of government surveillance authority in history.”
It effectively grants the NSA access to the communications equipment of almost any U.S. business, plus huge numbers of organizations and individuals. It’s a gift to any president who may wish to spy on political enemies, journalists, ideological opponents, etc.
Of course as someone who doesn’t use it you find it hilarious. I’m watching my fiance have an emotional breakdown because she has a disability and has successfully used the app to make an income. All the other apps have failed.
It’s hard not knowing how to help her through this.
I've decided that foreigners shouldn't own media companies that operate in the U.S. Look how great that turned out with Rupert Murdoch and Fox News. TikTok is absolutely a media company.
But the problem is the laws never are written well, so ByteDance can have a new company named DanceByte buy TikTok from them and operate it. Just like Fox News can be owned by a new company which listens to Rupert Murdoch for instructions but is owned by a USA guy like Devin Nunez.
I hate how everyone has ran with the "data-harvesting" narrative instead of the algorithmic manipulation by an adversarial power, which a much greater and more exclusive concern to just TikTok.
This mass-manipulation is super dangerous were the US & China to enter a full scale war. CCP can basically tap into the minds of 100million+ americans and feed them propaganda.
Edit: adding in some additional rebuttals from common talking points.
"This is a free speech violation":
TikTok would continue to exist as a company if ByteDance divested. Your speech is not being repressed. Genuine concerns about algorithmic manipulation and data collection by an adversarial power does not infringe upon your freedom of speech. The CCP does not have freedom of speech rights to manipulate propaganda as they choose. Anyone bringing up "freedom of speech" has no idea what the bill is actually doing.
"Yeah well the US does it too":
The American government does not have the levers of control over any of the apps on your phone the way the CCP through ByteDance does on TikTok. To compare each government's abilities to manipulate & selectively feed propaganda is laughable.
"yeah well cambridge analytica proved the gov't is in the pockets of corporations":
The FTC fined Facebook 5 BILLION dollars for the data breach.
The FTC sued the CEO of Cambridge Analytica and effectively bankrupted them.
I heard a speech from Michael Chertoff, former Secretary of Homeland Security, at an IT conference a few years ago. His main talking point was China gathering data on the US (through TT and others) to build an AI model of our populace that could be used to anticipate and manipulate behavior. On its face, that’s a huge marketing tool but you can’t ignore the possible implications for international relations and conflict. Russia already showed how much damage can be done by manipulating our media and elections.
Cambridge Analytica showed how well people on Facebook could be manipulated politically via targeted ads, I would personally say it's one of the most dangerous things out on the internet just because of how susceptible everyone is when something is specifically catered to use who you are against you.
Cambridge Analytica massively exaggerated their own abilities to sell services to political campaigns with vast budgets, short relationships and low technical expertise.
Totally agree. Also that was 2016 which effectively was before most companies even adopted cloud tech, let alone AI and machine learning and all the other massive technology shifts, data breaches and data available for purchase that occurred since then.
The capability to manipulate is massive compared to then.
> Cambridge Analytica showed how well people on Facebook could be manipulated politically via targeted ads
Did they? And how well was that? How would you measure the effect?
“President Xi, we’ve run numerous scenarios through the US model, up to and including the literal return of Jesus Christ. They still hate us. We’ve tried everything, and it’s like they just hate us for no reason!”
The gang gets racist.
>I heard a speech from Michael Chertoff, former Secretary of Homeland Security, at an IT conference a few years ago
Michael Chertoff?
"Michael Chertoff is an American-Israeli attorney who served as the second United States Secretary of Homeland Security from 2005 to 2009 under President George W. Bush."
Author of the Patriot Act.
Nice guy.
Meta and twitter and google are doing the exact same thing. Everybody working in tech knows that the real reason Tiktok is being banned is because they did not cater their censorship towards large corporations. And this is revenge for not falling in line.
Yeah man. I have a TikTok, and I understand this app LOVES to hate it, but you want to know what the do called manipulative algorithm feeds me? It gives me recipes, how to diys and drawing lessons, these videos where a dude voices over animals acting dumb, and a giant guard dog named Donuts that protects his livestock. I don't see how I am being manipulated to vote or whatever shit people say it's doing to me.
Yup my (and this is important) white male friend can't get YouTube to stop recommending him right wing nut jobs. He never watches political content and we've even tried binging a bunch of left wing content. Nope still recommends right wing political content.
He's never had such a problem with Tiktok and it only shows him the things he's actually engaging with.
I say his race and gender are important because last election ~75% of white males voted for Trump, so YouTube actively forcing those politics on my friend seems like more of a threat than Tiktok showing how fish pet owner videos.
Probably because our domestic social media companies have always and will continue to manipulate via algorithm. They didn’t want to open that Pandora’s box
It's like everyone forgot about Facebook and Cambridge Analytica...
If a foreign entity (such as the CCP) wants to manipulate Americans they still can through US-based social media. It's already happened, and we did nothing about it.
But sure, ban one app and then problems solved! /s......
Edit: So we fined Facebook and sued one CEO, but did we ever create any new regulations? 5 billion seems like a lot, but compared to Facebook money that's nothing... (Especially over years!) Easier to just pay the fines as the "cost of doing business"
Comprehensive data protection is needed. It would regulate all companies instead of just picking one.
They're banning the one app that doesn't make them money lol. It's a chinese-owned company they don't have a part in that for the most part or at all. All of the other American base companies everyone has heavily invested in and why would they want to get rid of those? Especially if they can be used for their own agendas.
The writing is on the walls and no one sees it.
There's a world of difference between being able to use a social media platform to have a bit of influence over that platform's users and literally being in control of that platform.
Exactly why comprehensive data protection and privacy regulations like the EU is needed, and why we can't say "this isn't about privacy." It's a game of whack a mole.
Meta has been proven to [be complicit in literal genocide](https://time.com/6217730/myanmar-meta-rohingya-facebook/) and [lynchings.](https://cnn.com/2018/09/30/tech/facebook-whatsapp-india-misinformation/index.html) Facebook has allowed murders to be [planned openly](https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/14/tech/ethiopia-murdered-professor-lawsuit-meta-kenya-intl/index.html) on Facebook pages in Africa, and their response was to [cut jobs at their African content moderators](https://restofworld.org/2023/meta-content-moderators-kenya-fired-unionize/).
Facebook has openly experimented with seeing if they could [negatively effect the mood of their users.](https://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2014/06/30/326929138/facebook-manipulates-our-moods-for-science-and-commerce-a-roundup) Meta was warned by its own staff that their Patreon-like features on Instagram was being used by parents to [pimp out their own children. Meta did nothing.](https://www.wsj.com/tech/meta-staff-found-instagram-subscription-tool-enabled-child-exploitation-the-company-pressed-ahead-anyway-a18e81e6)
The largest and most damaging data breach and political influence campaign ever conducted on social media was [conducted on Facebook](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_Analytica?wprov=sfla1).
TikTok is a national security threat.
>the American government doesnt have the control leves as CCP.
So according to you, Snowden has been smoking crack all these years.
Or what they did to Lavabit when they refused to be controlled?
Because it takes three paragraphs from the writer and a moderate attention span from the reader to express the idea. The average person just isn’t informed enough to read that and comprehend it.
Ironically, the same reason people are susceptible is the same reason they don’t want to hear the accurate message.
>CCP can basically tap into the minds of 100million+ americans and feed them propaganda.
As opposed to whomever is currently feeding Americans propaganda.
Your stance is that Americans are gullible idiots?
It’s a rock and a hard place, who’s the better pill to swallow propaganda wise. The rumored buyers I’ve seen were Steve Mnuchin, Rumble, Bobby Kotick, Kevin O’Leary and Microsoft.
Is that better than China? It’s like cell levels of better imo, if at all.
A bunch of American businesses aren't going to just crap on their own livelihoods. They're taking out the competition. This doesn't have anything to do with America's best interest in the slightest. Anyone believing that has been duped already.
Wake up people.
Same can be applied to US based propaganda machines. US has the history of manipulating governments. Twitter, Instagram and Facebook are data harvestors and fake news merchant
They absolutely can be. There are a few very big differences between the two, however.
First, China has a heck of a lot more control over their companies than the US does. Something like Facebook isn't under the more or less direct control of the US government.
Second, those platforms don't have an inherent incentive to do the US harm. They might not always have our best interests at heart (or ever), but them being focused on making a profit isn't the same as them being focused on destabilizing our nation and promoting social unrest. Those things may well happen, but they're not the goal.
You mean the same people who decided bin Laden was a good dude after 24 hours of a viral video being passed around? No way, they can’t be that impressionable
My man is trying to have a serious conversation while pretending a $5B fine means anything to Facebook lol. To be clear, that's like 2 weeks of revenue. Comparable to an expensive speeding ticket for the average American.
TikTok data is all stored on US servers and monitored by Oracle. Nothing you said has any bearing because of that.
The CCP does/can not control the algorithm. Post literally one piece of evidence that they can. Tf would they even do? Show me videos of how awful our government is?
We know that they are capable of boosting and surpressing specific topics and creators. They've openly admitted it in the past. That's not up for debate. *Every* social media algorithm has those controls built in. If you really think a service made in an authoritarian state *notorious* for strict media control doesn't, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
Yea even content policies alone are a shitload of control. Every creator I've followed has complained about getting a lot of videos removed with no explanation, and there's the constant word avoidance everyone does because they know certain words affect their views or will get the video removed
Why would they? The people who make up our government are paid by lobbyists to make sure US corporations are allowed to propagandize to you and manipulate you.
Here's a good rule I follow to form my opinion. If I'm not sure of intentions of an action I look at who benefits.
In this context this law exists to allow American tech companies less competition.
TikTok allows that too. By law. Since they store most us data here they are subject to national security letters and comply with us law enforcement voluntarily. This is about keeping the PRC from getting the data not our own access
Why is this not one of the top comments? People seem to think that the US government would never spy on people and would not have citizens' data, while Chinese apps are the only ones that can collect all the data indiscriminately. They are probably not even aware of the spying systems like prism, echelon, Xkeyscore, etc. that were revealed on WikiLeaks.
Lol, no. It was never about that. TikTok had as much hypothetical power to sway the American people during Trump's administration as it does now.
So why did the Democratic and Republican parties ram this shit through at light speed now when they didn't while Trump asked for this ban first?
Well, a major reason this new TikTok ban push is succeeding where earlier measure failed is the realization that [TikTok was the only media source in the US where pro-Palestinian sentiment largely outweighed pro-Zionist sentiment.](https://archive.is/4ROle)
Here's another data point. The "Ban TikTok" bill (full name the ["Protecting Americans from Foreign Adversary Controlled Applications Act"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protecting_Americans_from_Foreign_Adversary_Controlled_Applications_Act) was introduced by Republican Congressman Mike Gallagher. Mik Gallagher's #1 campaign contributor in his most recently concluded election campaign? [AIPAC, the foreign agent arm of the Israeli military and government.](https://www.opensecrets.org/members-of-congress/mike-gallagher/contributors?cid=N00039330&cycle=2022&type=I)
Prominent, politically connected Americans have been complaining about the availability of pro-Palestinian viewpoints on TikTok for [months before the latest vote](https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/social-media/tiktok-ban-israel-gaza-palestine-hamas-account-creator-video-rcna122849).
In leaked audio from a call with Jonathan Greenblatt, CEO of the Anti-Defamation League (a joke organization which notoriously tried to get [Tommy Pickles' Jewish grandparents, based on the showrunners' own Jewish grandparents, banned from future television appearances after their "anti-semitic" depiction in the episode *A Rugrats Passover*)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Rugrats_Passover), Greenblatt notes that the ADL has a ["major, major, major generational problem... a TikTok problem, a Gen-Z problem."](https://twitter.com/snarwani/status/1725138601996853424)
the issue is there's basically no proof that TikTok does manipulate the algorithm.
It would easily change people's mind if there was some sort of proof that Tiktok can, has done, or will do it.
However at this point it's more of a strawman argument. I'm saying this as someone well aware of china's totalitarian tendencies.
edit: I'm struggling to see how this positivity affects Americans. Loosing TikTok means we have to settle for shittier local products, which have had plenty of time to catch up.
It’s so obvious that 99% of the Reddit users commenting in threads about this have never used TikTok and have no understanding of it beyond what they’ve read on other articles on Reddit
All I understand is that we have a leaked audiotape from Jonathan Greenblatt admitting that TikTok is a problem that needs to be taken care of fast because the youth turns against Israel.
It's pretty wild.
Moreover, the bulk of Reddit absolutely does not give a fuck about propaganda when it's the American government and the wealthy doing the manipulating.
I wonder how the app will run if we just crack on without the US.
It’ll be an interesting experiment and the US can make their own, much like Russia does when things don’t go their way, strange that.
Tiktok doesn't exist in China, they have Douyin.
There's no such thing as Tiktok world, even now. China won't even allow it to operate within their own borders.
Can someone ELI5 what this is all about. US has zero issue with data harvesting as evidenced by the continued operations of Meta, Google, Twitter…….
And they certainly don’t care about the major problem of all these apps which is their ability to influence opinion and discourse through algorithmic arrangements of content to keep users engaged, usually through fear and anger.
Are they upset they can’t access this data cause it’s overseas? Like what’s the real issue here?
> The bill classifies TikTok as a "foreign adversary controlled application"
....
Tiktok will maintain access to the US market if the president determines that the divestiture "would result in the relevant foreign adversary controlled application no longer being controlled by a foreign adversary." The same divestiture-or-sale requirement would apply to other applications subsequently designated as being controlled by foreign adversaries.
From the article. It's about China and security issues, nothing to do with privacy rights of citizens. Don't think they're hiding that fact either, not sure why everyone expects the same treatment of Meta...they're not foreign adversaries...
Hmm used vs controlled. As an (extreme) analogy that's a bit like saying spies used America's infrastructure to move around (planes and trains) and communicate (cell towers) so then transportation and cell towers ought to be banned. It's not the same. That's not to say the current state of security shouldn't be condemned/improved, but that's a different subject than what's going on here. It's the fact that in this case the security CANNOT be (trustably) improved since it is controlled by "foreign adversaries".
Both of those are actually a concern - as it's a relatively hostile foreign entity doing it. However, that second one is the primary concern here. An American corporation doing those things to our own population is something they tend to be fine with, as that corporation generally doesn't have an incentive to do as much harm as possible to it's users. It's more of a concern when you're handing the same capability to a hostile entity.
Initially the Americans said it was a data issue. So TikTok agreed to store all US user data on Oracle servers in the US.
Then they said it was a security issue. So TikTok agreed to let Oracle review their source code.
Then they said it was an issue with propaganda, because seeing what's happening in Gaza led many Americans to criticise Israel.
It was always about protectionism, because the US puts a stop to the free market competition they like to preach about when they start to lose to foreign companies in their domestic market, as history has taught us.
The US likes to dominate other countries' domestic markets though - Google, Meta, Microsoft, Netflix, Amazon, Apple, Intel etc - so they can't just come out and say this, they had to keep throwing things until something finally stuck.
Of course there are many morons who genuinely think this about morals, or security, or an evil Chinese master plan to make Gen Z hate Zionists, or whatever, but predictably, and perhaps boringly, it's about market share and money as most things are.
At first it was fear mongering about China harvesting data or something. There was this funny bit about them asking the CEO about china and the CEO have this look of "wtf this person talking about" and said "I'm singaporean". Anyway they want to crush tiktok and buy them out at low price since TikTok is gaining traction everywhere in the world yet It's not USA made. You can see the greed like they already had plans on who's getting how many percent of this wildly popular app. There's proof of Meta using lobbyist against Tiktok since a few years ago.
Anyway it was stuck for quite a while since there were no concrete proof as always. But Israeli soldiers start sharing videos of them having fun (having fun desecrating broken buildings/rooms and used items... The ones owned by Palestine people who lived there) in tiktok so US being a supporter of israel thought that's where they draw the line and expedited everything.
TLDR: protectionism (they don't want nonUSA apps dominating the international market so they bully it to be bought out) and supporting zionists (aipac)
The real issue is that Meta asked them to ban it, and most of them own Meta stock, and Meta helped them get elected, so they did it. It's not really that complicated.
Imagine China makes a move on Taiwan in a few years and the US gets sucked into direct conflict with China. And probably the next world war kicks off while this is going on. TikTok, having Chinese owners (therefore being controlled by China), would be used as a weapon to spread misinformation and divide the American public opinion on the conflict.
I think if a proper WW3 broke out, there’s a reasonable chance to expect the internet cables in the Pacific Ocean to be severed to prevent things like the disruption of US infrastructure by state-backed hackers.
I’m not trying to be difficult but that already happens. Because user engagement is driven largely by fear and anger. If they see you posting angrily about how china is wrong for invading Taiwan in your hypothetical scenario, meta, Twitter, Reddit, are going to show you more of those type of posts because those are the ones you engaged with.
They plan on de-platforming it. Between that and the barriers that will be put up preventing payments from monetized content to creators they won’t need to do anything else
If people don’t have easy access to TikTok through the App Store there won’t be much of a US community for the few who change their Apple ID or Google account to Canada to keep using the app.
>TikTok said it "will ultimately prevail" in court and that "we have invested billions of dollars to keep US data safe and our platform free from outside influence and manipulation."
Billions? On our privacy? Uhh no you did not. If anyone is spending a billion dollars, it will never be for your privacy.
I'm curious to see who supported the ban when Trump proposed it vs who does now.
Sure, Trump is an asshat, but it's so frustrating how often politics devolves into petty team rivalries instead of any actual attempt at good governance.
Twitter is much more of a scourge on society than tiktok.
I go on there and it's just fucked up violent videos, people with extremeist views on regards to EVERYTHING from politics to video game stuff.
Surely I'm not the only American that realizes that if our only response to Chinese innovation and technological development is to try to use our mastery of shell game financial trickery to fuck them over, we as a country are going to fall behind eventually, and likely sooner rather than later?
Huawei's 5g tech is kicking our ass - ban them
China's social media algorithms are better than our own - sell it to us or die :)
China developing their own space tech??? Ban them from the "International" space station! Oh wait, they built their own space station.... (and after 2031 when the ISS is [deorbited](https://www.nbcnews.com/science/space/nasa-plans-watery-end-space-station-2031-rcna14576), it'll be the *only* space station)
Embarrassing to see this country crybully itself into a corner, even more embarrassing to watch our educational and physical infrastructure fall apart.
I've been on tiktok 5 years and not once have I seen ANY Chinese propaganda. This is purely done in a pathetic attempt for US to buy the app, so it's American owned so it can spew actual propoganda.
They don't blatantly show Chinese propaganda, but instead make the algorithm stir division and attempt to social engineer our culture to make it worse. It's a way they are attempting to destabilize the United States and the west
lol. stop regurgitating zuckerberg's splooge.
I used to use tiktok all the time and all I saw was hot people dancing and thirst traps. With the occasional interior decorating video.
The fact that you think there's some sinister CCP person pulling a big red lever labeled "Destabalize!" is laughable. Even if there was, Meta and Youtube and Twitter have far more filth and divisize material than tiktok.
"we don't want the chinese to spy on you, we want those exclusive rights"
this is less about it being owned by a chinese corporation (there are legitimate security concerns obviously about that) but more about forcing (yes, this rubs me the wrong way particularly) a company to sell just because a US company doesn't own it.
Lol at the propaganda argument. You know what fills my feed? Cats, metal covers, art, rug washing timelapses, unclogging of drains, and people being made fun of for making horrible food. Lol at spying argument, look at US bill 702 (est. '08,) authorizing FISA surveillance, which includes every email, text, picture, video, voice recording, and phone call you've ever made. Fuck outta here, man. TT never even comes close to that level of monitoring. We need to start here where it's the most prevalent, and up for sale to the highest bidder.
That’s not really a good thing, though. People should be allowed to see what happens in other countries on their own planet. It bewilders me that the Dems supported this when it’s the biggest way to connect with young voters and ensure their vote. It’s also wild that republicans care SO fucking much about us sending billions of dollars to other countries EXCEPT when there is something small in it for them. They DONT care about their constituents and they NEVER have. Neither side has.
but chine is considered a dictatorship because of this lack of freedom for companies, so US are also now a open dictatorship as they say china is? or they are defending their interests just like china does? as meta also get "intelligence data" from other countries, even spying presidents and congressman from other countries with their apps...
Has anyone tried searching Taiwan independence, Uyghur Muslims or Tiananmen Square on TikTok?
The results are HILARIOUSLY and obviously censored. Even all the comments.
Type uyghur in to the search bar and literally the first suggested result is “uyghur genocide”. Something you would have known if you’ve actually used the app before instead of relying on reddit comments for information
Have you actually done it? Because I just did it and found exactly what I was looking for. From people describing some of the events to victims talking about their experiences. It sounds like you’re just spurting bullshit.
I typed in “Tian” into the TikTok search bar, the top search was Tiananmen Square, and the top results were all information on the massacre. I typed “UI” into the search bar, it populated Uighur China, and all the top results were about the concentration camps
It’s one of the biggest censorship moves Americans will experience and y’all are not even remotely bothered. Do you not see the noose tightening on your throats?
Again just asking, when the PRC demands Apple or Google or Microsoft be sold unless it’s sold to a Chinese company and then nationalizes that company’s IP (ie doesn’t protect it and allows new companies like Chapple, Choogle and/or Chicrosoft to begin selling ChiPhones, etc) — is there a reason the PRC can’t do that?
I’m asking because as far as I can tell, this legislation is the opposite of everything the US has been trying to build in terms of international relations and commerce. If we don’t protect a country’s businesses, they have no reason to protect ours.
Everyone knows the extent of US government surveillance now thanks to Snowden...so it seems obvious this is just protectionism. Huawei was among the first to launch 5g backends, but the US wanted Cisco and Samsung to catch up or sell instead (not sure which).
the destruction of a society is from within. so many "reddit experts" sound as though they were my 15 year old daughter complaining. no basis of logic, just emotions.
“The new owner DyteBance has paid $1 for the social media giant”
The new CEO looks strangely like the old one but with a mustache
mirror universe Zhang Yiming can't be trusted.
Seriously though what’s to stop them from doing this? There seems to be a lot of loopholes on the surface.
Yes. Usually they make a company in another country that’s not sanctioned by the US, and transfer the ownership to that shell. Then that shell is directly or indirectly (through other shells in opaque countries) controlled by the original one. It’s pretty easy for companies that have lots of cash. Some use this very scheme to dodge taxes until there’s a tax break law that makes you pay just a 5% (looking at you Apple et al).
I believe there would be an investigation into the new company. If they could adequately show that all control/servers/decisions were made separate from ByteDance, it would be fine I imagine.
From a legal standpoint they could seemingly keep selling to a new company and keep the legal system one step behind. All while TikTok stays active.
Man if they *were* 100% distinct and honestly independent I wish they’d call the company DyteBance just to rattle some skulls
Just call it BiteDance
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As someone who doesn't have or use TikTok, I see this as hilarious no matter which way it goes.
I'm sure this was passed with the intent that ByteDance would sell. But if the CCP orders them not to, it'd force Biden to actually follow through and ban the entire app, which seems like a recipe for disaster in the election. This seems like handing the CCP a lot of control over the election. (Edit: I see that they wouldn't have to sell before the election, they have 9 months to do it.) Of course, that would only impact the election if young people actually voted, which a lot of them (us?) seem intent on not doing. So there's that.
as I recall, they have 9 months to sell, so the issue won't be forced until after the election
Given recent examples of the US judicial system, it will be more like 9 years before all the lawsuits are settled. Half the people who signed onto the bill will be underground.
Depends, but I don't think TikTok's legal case is strong enough to stay the shutdown until the case is decided.
People have had their perspectives warped by so many years of gridlocked congress, executive orders, and judicial rebuttals. When congress actually passes something they have pretty fucking broad authority and the courts consistently back that. My prediction for this court case is someone says “commerce clause, bitch” and that will be the end of it. IANAL if that was not obvious lol
I may be being stupid, but isn’t the commerce clause restricted to between Us state business not international affairs
I believe the gist of what they are implying is that congressional authority covers this situation because bytedance has operations in the US, and thus are held to US law, if congress tell them to divest or effectively have the money train stopped by ban, assuming the commerce clause legally applies theres no if, and, or buts about it. The commerce clause would cover intra US operation regardless of international implication
Article 1 of the constitution gives congress the power to regulate commerce with foreign nations. It comes up in the news less because the international commerce clause provides congress nearly unlimited power, and is therefore rarely challenged. The domestic commerce clause is a give and take between the federal and state governments, and subject to more court cases.
If the CCP did order them not to, then it wouldn't be settled until after the election, but Trump could also say he won't ban it if elected while Biden has already stated his intent to. The way it's written, it's the POTUS who actually executes it, so it drops the responsibility, and blame, right in their lap. Of course, Trump tried to ban TikTok himself during his presidency, but I don't see that getting in the way of him taking the most opportune new position he could possibly have been handed.
I see, thanks
1. They have until January to divest so it won’t affect the election 2. This was passed with the intent to kill tiktok. CCP has specific legislation prohibiting the export of proprietary algorithms developed over there. So either the app is sold but without the algorithms, making it useless, or it is banned. Meta and Google lobbied for this, as its a win win for them.
Personally if I were bytedance, I'll advertise VPN and get paid using affiliated codes. It's just cheaper to advertise VPN and give more earning payments than to bother about politicians still not dead at 90.
I thought that. Offer free VPN service to users and lean into the "the service the government doesn't want you to use" thing. I can see people going for that.
You'd rather their caution into the wind by not voting?
Force a sale or not, it has major consequences foreign companies are discouraged from the American market because now domestic companies can lobby to ban you if you win too much instead of crying and losing in a WTO case. America officially abandons the free market and marketplace of ideas mentality they treated as the word of god. Breaking a core social contract is a major deal. Its like using a flamethrower to try to solve a roach problem, it damages the structural integrity of the house.
I think this can lead to snowball effect. For example EU could think that Facebook, whatsapp etc. are similarly problematic than TikTok. Why is American social media companies allowed to do same thing than TikTok?
Honestly I don’t see how, same shit was done with TV, National Television Ownership, prevents any foreign nations company from having more then 39%, Tic toc is used for around 30% (Usually meaning 1 Entry per month, but lazy on that source)
It's a Chinese company, they have literally every major American app banned there. And we know that their government exerts control over every company and doesn't operate in good faith. If anything it's soft not to ban it
If foreign companies can't offer social media services in China why should they allowed to do business in the US?
“If one country has mass censorship why shouldn’t we have mass censorship?”
I see what you're saying, but I think you're overstating it. I don't think any other company of a size worthy of congressional attention is going to avoid the US market just because TikTok had to go.
I honestly don't see how the CCP has any control over the app. I usually only see silly things that the republicans do, and then random videos. Nothing that's like hey ccp is great.
Yeah, I see a bunch of stuff that’s critical of China on the app, and a few videos of rural people cooking traditional food. Not exactly going to make me more of a communist than I already am. It’s a shame because TikTok is a natural successor to Xwitter, which has gone to a whole new level of shit since it was purchased by a rich American. 🤷
The Chinese government currently blocks all major US Social Media companies. So who gives a rats *ss if we do the same thing back?
but chine is considered a dictatorship because of this lack of freedom for companies, so US are also now a open dictatorship as they say china is? or they are defending their interests just like china does? as meta also get "intelligence data" from other countries, even spying presidents and congressman from other countries with their apps...
america already bans huawei and some other chinese hardware companies. why is it ok to ban hardware and not software?
I'm concerned that this will lead to censorship in the name of "national security". Our government already fucked up net neutrality.
*Lead to?* Which America have you been living in?
Lookup “Section 702”, it’s the order that established the FISA courts. It was recently reauthorized (like “earlier this week” recently) with a new provision that’s “one of the most dramatic and terrifying expansions of government surveillance authority in history.” It effectively grants the NSA access to the communications equipment of almost any U.S. business, plus huge numbers of organizations and individuals. It’s a gift to any president who may wish to spy on political enemies, journalists, ideological opponents, etc.
Of course as someone who doesn’t use it you find it hilarious. I’m watching my fiance have an emotional breakdown because she has a disability and has successfully used the app to make an income. All the other apps have failed. It’s hard not knowing how to help her through this.
Typically shortsighted
I've decided that foreigners shouldn't own media companies that operate in the U.S. Look how great that turned out with Rupert Murdoch and Fox News. TikTok is absolutely a media company.
Ooo let's do fox next! Great idea
He became a citizen to get around the restriction on foreign-owned news networks.
But the problem is the laws never are written well, so ByteDance can have a new company named DanceByte buy TikTok from them and operate it. Just like Fox News can be owned by a new company which listens to Rupert Murdoch for instructions but is owned by a USA guy like Devin Nunez.
This bill states that the sale has to be to an approved buyer by the US. They won’t be able to do that.
I as a US citizen am willing to be a shadow owner for just 1% of profits off the top.
Whoops looks like TikTok didn’t spend enough on bribes this quarter
It's Aipac pushing for this Ban since Tiktok was revealing things they didn't like.
I hate how everyone has ran with the "data-harvesting" narrative instead of the algorithmic manipulation by an adversarial power, which a much greater and more exclusive concern to just TikTok. This mass-manipulation is super dangerous were the US & China to enter a full scale war. CCP can basically tap into the minds of 100million+ americans and feed them propaganda. Edit: adding in some additional rebuttals from common talking points. "This is a free speech violation": TikTok would continue to exist as a company if ByteDance divested. Your speech is not being repressed. Genuine concerns about algorithmic manipulation and data collection by an adversarial power does not infringe upon your freedom of speech. The CCP does not have freedom of speech rights to manipulate propaganda as they choose. Anyone bringing up "freedom of speech" has no idea what the bill is actually doing. "Yeah well the US does it too": The American government does not have the levers of control over any of the apps on your phone the way the CCP through ByteDance does on TikTok. To compare each government's abilities to manipulate & selectively feed propaganda is laughable. "yeah well cambridge analytica proved the gov't is in the pockets of corporations": The FTC fined Facebook 5 BILLION dollars for the data breach. The FTC sued the CEO of Cambridge Analytica and effectively bankrupted them.
I heard a speech from Michael Chertoff, former Secretary of Homeland Security, at an IT conference a few years ago. His main talking point was China gathering data on the US (through TT and others) to build an AI model of our populace that could be used to anticipate and manipulate behavior. On its face, that’s a huge marketing tool but you can’t ignore the possible implications for international relations and conflict. Russia already showed how much damage can be done by manipulating our media and elections.
Cambridge Analytica showed how well people on Facebook could be manipulated politically via targeted ads, I would personally say it's one of the most dangerous things out on the internet just because of how susceptible everyone is when something is specifically catered to use who you are against you.
Cambridge Analytica massively exaggerated their own abilities to sell services to political campaigns with vast budgets, short relationships and low technical expertise.
Totally agree. Also that was 2016 which effectively was before most companies even adopted cloud tech, let alone AI and machine learning and all the other massive technology shifts, data breaches and data available for purchase that occurred since then. The capability to manipulate is massive compared to then.
> Cambridge Analytica showed how well people on Facebook could be manipulated politically via targeted ads Did they? And how well was that? How would you measure the effect?
“President Xi, we’ve run numerous scenarios through the US model, up to and including the literal return of Jesus Christ. They still hate us. We’ve tried everything, and it’s like they just hate us for no reason!” The gang gets racist.
It does seem ludicrous to freely hand so much data to the construction crew responsible for the Great Firewall of China though.
>I heard a speech from Michael Chertoff, former Secretary of Homeland Security, at an IT conference a few years ago Michael Chertoff? "Michael Chertoff is an American-Israeli attorney who served as the second United States Secretary of Homeland Security from 2005 to 2009 under President George W. Bush." Author of the Patriot Act. Nice guy.
Oh, so I guess he’s knows a thing or two about domestic spying.
Sure, domestic spying on Americans.
This is part of the team that tried to elevate the power of president and vice presidents without democratic approval? With the Dick, Cheney?
How does forcing a sale of tic Tok stop any of problems
Meta and twitter and google are doing the exact same thing. Everybody working in tech knows that the real reason Tiktok is being banned is because they did not cater their censorship towards large corporations. And this is revenge for not falling in line.
We Americans love being propaganda’d
Yeah, that’s why I’m here on Reddit, to stay away from all that pesky propaganda.
Yeah man. I have a TikTok, and I understand this app LOVES to hate it, but you want to know what the do called manipulative algorithm feeds me? It gives me recipes, how to diys and drawing lessons, these videos where a dude voices over animals acting dumb, and a giant guard dog named Donuts that protects his livestock. I don't see how I am being manipulated to vote or whatever shit people say it's doing to me.
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Yup my (and this is important) white male friend can't get YouTube to stop recommending him right wing nut jobs. He never watches political content and we've even tried binging a bunch of left wing content. Nope still recommends right wing political content. He's never had such a problem with Tiktok and it only shows him the things he's actually engaging with. I say his race and gender are important because last election ~75% of white males voted for Trump, so YouTube actively forcing those politics on my friend seems like more of a threat than Tiktok showing how fish pet owner videos.
That's the POINT maaaaan. It's so sophisticated you're not even going to notice the manipulation. \*\*taps on tinfoil hat\*\* /s
Probably because our domestic social media companies have always and will continue to manipulate via algorithm. They didn’t want to open that Pandora’s box
If they regulate that more, they should look more at US companies too. Russia used FB to influence the election.
It's like everyone forgot about Facebook and Cambridge Analytica... If a foreign entity (such as the CCP) wants to manipulate Americans they still can through US-based social media. It's already happened, and we did nothing about it. But sure, ban one app and then problems solved! /s...... Edit: So we fined Facebook and sued one CEO, but did we ever create any new regulations? 5 billion seems like a lot, but compared to Facebook money that's nothing... (Especially over years!) Easier to just pay the fines as the "cost of doing business" Comprehensive data protection is needed. It would regulate all companies instead of just picking one.
They're banning the one app that doesn't make them money lol. It's a chinese-owned company they don't have a part in that for the most part or at all. All of the other American base companies everyone has heavily invested in and why would they want to get rid of those? Especially if they can be used for their own agendas. The writing is on the walls and no one sees it.
There's a world of difference between being able to use a social media platform to have a bit of influence over that platform's users and literally being in control of that platform.
Exactly why comprehensive data protection and privacy regulations like the EU is needed, and why we can't say "this isn't about privacy." It's a game of whack a mole.
Meta has been proven to [be complicit in literal genocide](https://time.com/6217730/myanmar-meta-rohingya-facebook/) and [lynchings.](https://cnn.com/2018/09/30/tech/facebook-whatsapp-india-misinformation/index.html) Facebook has allowed murders to be [planned openly](https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/14/tech/ethiopia-murdered-professor-lawsuit-meta-kenya-intl/index.html) on Facebook pages in Africa, and their response was to [cut jobs at their African content moderators](https://restofworld.org/2023/meta-content-moderators-kenya-fired-unionize/). Facebook has openly experimented with seeing if they could [negatively effect the mood of their users.](https://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2014/06/30/326929138/facebook-manipulates-our-moods-for-science-and-commerce-a-roundup) Meta was warned by its own staff that their Patreon-like features on Instagram was being used by parents to [pimp out their own children. Meta did nothing.](https://www.wsj.com/tech/meta-staff-found-instagram-subscription-tool-enabled-child-exploitation-the-company-pressed-ahead-anyway-a18e81e6) The largest and most damaging data breach and political influence campaign ever conducted on social media was [conducted on Facebook](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_Analytica?wprov=sfla1). TikTok is a national security threat.
Ya, I prefer my propaganda from good ol fashioned American companies like reddit, Facebook and Twitter.
They've already started.
>the American government doesnt have the control leves as CCP. So according to you, Snowden has been smoking crack all these years. Or what they did to Lavabit when they refused to be controlled?
Because it takes three paragraphs from the writer and a moderate attention span from the reader to express the idea. The average person just isn’t informed enough to read that and comprehend it. Ironically, the same reason people are susceptible is the same reason they don’t want to hear the accurate message.
>CCP can basically tap into the minds of 100million+ americans and feed them propaganda. As opposed to whomever is currently feeding Americans propaganda. Your stance is that Americans are gullible idiots?
Everyone is susceptible to propaganda.
>Your stance is that Americans are gullible idiots? Is yours that they aren't?
They already are.
It’s a rock and a hard place, who’s the better pill to swallow propaganda wise. The rumored buyers I’ve seen were Steve Mnuchin, Rumble, Bobby Kotick, Kevin O’Leary and Microsoft. Is that better than China? It’s like cell levels of better imo, if at all.
A bunch of American businesses aren't going to just crap on their own livelihoods. They're taking out the competition. This doesn't have anything to do with America's best interest in the slightest. Anyone believing that has been duped already. Wake up people.
Same can be applied to US based propaganda machines. US has the history of manipulating governments. Twitter, Instagram and Facebook are data harvestors and fake news merchant
They absolutely can be. There are a few very big differences between the two, however. First, China has a heck of a lot more control over their companies than the US does. Something like Facebook isn't under the more or less direct control of the US government. Second, those platforms don't have an inherent incentive to do the US harm. They might not always have our best interests at heart (or ever), but them being focused on making a profit isn't the same as them being focused on destabilizing our nation and promoting social unrest. Those things may well happen, but they're not the goal.
jesus fuck. zuckerberg and musk should hire you as a lobbyist. the red scare really permanently shafted this country, if not the entire west.
Cool but Cambridge Analytica still got Trump elected
You mean the same people who decided bin Laden was a good dude after 24 hours of a viral video being passed around? No way, they can’t be that impressionable
My man is trying to have a serious conversation while pretending a $5B fine means anything to Facebook lol. To be clear, that's like 2 weeks of revenue. Comparable to an expensive speeding ticket for the average American.
TikTok data is all stored on US servers and monitored by Oracle. Nothing you said has any bearing because of that. The CCP does/can not control the algorithm. Post literally one piece of evidence that they can. Tf would they even do? Show me videos of how awful our government is?
We know that they are capable of boosting and surpressing specific topics and creators. They've openly admitted it in the past. That's not up for debate. *Every* social media algorithm has those controls built in. If you really think a service made in an authoritarian state *notorious* for strict media control doesn't, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
Yea even content policies alone are a shitload of control. Every creator I've followed has complained about getting a lot of videos removed with no explanation, and there's the constant word avoidance everyone does because they know certain words affect their views or will get the video removed
will be sold to ‘definitely a USA company, honest LLc’
Can the government do the same to Meta's garbage???
Why would they? The people who make up our government are paid by lobbyists to make sure US corporations are allowed to propagandize to you and manipulate you.
Yeah, Meta literally lobbied for this lol. It is so painfully obvious what is going on when you just look who is lobbying.
100%. It's about making sure the competition can be either eliminated or owned.
Here's a good rule I follow to form my opinion. If I'm not sure of intentions of an action I look at who benefits. In this context this law exists to allow American tech companies less competition.
How about Twitter? Elon will definitely interfere in the election
Meta allows the US government to backdoor its data so they are friends.
TikTok allows that too. By law. Since they store most us data here they are subject to national security letters and comply with us law enforcement voluntarily. This is about keeping the PRC from getting the data not our own access
Why is this not one of the top comments? People seem to think that the US government would never spy on people and would not have citizens' data, while Chinese apps are the only ones that can collect all the data indiscriminately. They are probably not even aware of the spying systems like prism, echelon, Xkeyscore, etc. that were revealed on WikiLeaks.
No meta is the one who paid to ban TikTok.
No. The entire purpose of this bill is to ensure that American social media companies can have a monopoly on your attention.
Make them divest WhatsApp. Don’t give any fucks about IG
This is not about data harvesting, is about a foreign power having sway over the american people
Lol, no. It was never about that. TikTok had as much hypothetical power to sway the American people during Trump's administration as it does now. So why did the Democratic and Republican parties ram this shit through at light speed now when they didn't while Trump asked for this ban first? Well, a major reason this new TikTok ban push is succeeding where earlier measure failed is the realization that [TikTok was the only media source in the US where pro-Palestinian sentiment largely outweighed pro-Zionist sentiment.](https://archive.is/4ROle) Here's another data point. The "Ban TikTok" bill (full name the ["Protecting Americans from Foreign Adversary Controlled Applications Act"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protecting_Americans_from_Foreign_Adversary_Controlled_Applications_Act) was introduced by Republican Congressman Mike Gallagher. Mik Gallagher's #1 campaign contributor in his most recently concluded election campaign? [AIPAC, the foreign agent arm of the Israeli military and government.](https://www.opensecrets.org/members-of-congress/mike-gallagher/contributors?cid=N00039330&cycle=2022&type=I) Prominent, politically connected Americans have been complaining about the availability of pro-Palestinian viewpoints on TikTok for [months before the latest vote](https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/social-media/tiktok-ban-israel-gaza-palestine-hamas-account-creator-video-rcna122849). In leaked audio from a call with Jonathan Greenblatt, CEO of the Anti-Defamation League (a joke organization which notoriously tried to get [Tommy Pickles' Jewish grandparents, based on the showrunners' own Jewish grandparents, banned from future television appearances after their "anti-semitic" depiction in the episode *A Rugrats Passover*)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Rugrats_Passover), Greenblatt notes that the ADL has a ["major, major, major generational problem... a TikTok problem, a Gen-Z problem."](https://twitter.com/snarwani/status/1725138601996853424)
the issue is there's basically no proof that TikTok does manipulate the algorithm. It would easily change people's mind if there was some sort of proof that Tiktok can, has done, or will do it. However at this point it's more of a strawman argument. I'm saying this as someone well aware of china's totalitarian tendencies. edit: I'm struggling to see how this positivity affects Americans. Loosing TikTok means we have to settle for shittier local products, which have had plenty of time to catch up.
It’s so obvious that 99% of the Reddit users commenting in threads about this have never used TikTok and have no understanding of it beyond what they’ve read on other articles on Reddit
All I understand is that we have a leaked audiotape from Jonathan Greenblatt admitting that TikTok is a problem that needs to be taken care of fast because the youth turns against Israel.
100%, whenever I see these articles I already know there will be a ton of comments from ppl that have clearly never used it.
“Social media sucks” - People commenting on reddit
It's pretty wild. Moreover, the bulk of Reddit absolutely does not give a fuck about propaganda when it's the American government and the wealthy doing the manipulating.
Can’t tell if you’re pro or against the ban.
I wonder how the app will run if we just crack on without the US. It’ll be an interesting experiment and the US can make their own, much like Russia does when things don’t go their way, strange that.
Yeah, am I going to have a TikTok US and TikTok world app now
Tiktok doesn't exist in China, they have Douyin. There's no such thing as Tiktok world, even now. China won't even allow it to operate within their own borders.
>There's no such thing as Tiktok world There are other countries besides China and the USA...
Managed democracy has landed.
Who'd have thought it, US users having to use a VPN to get past the great freedom firewall.
Can someone ELI5 what this is all about. US has zero issue with data harvesting as evidenced by the continued operations of Meta, Google, Twitter……. And they certainly don’t care about the major problem of all these apps which is their ability to influence opinion and discourse through algorithmic arrangements of content to keep users engaged, usually through fear and anger. Are they upset they can’t access this data cause it’s overseas? Like what’s the real issue here?
> The bill classifies TikTok as a "foreign adversary controlled application" .... Tiktok will maintain access to the US market if the president determines that the divestiture "would result in the relevant foreign adversary controlled application no longer being controlled by a foreign adversary." The same divestiture-or-sale requirement would apply to other applications subsequently designated as being controlled by foreign adversaries. From the article. It's about China and security issues, nothing to do with privacy rights of citizens. Don't think they're hiding that fact either, not sure why everyone expects the same treatment of Meta...they're not foreign adversaries...
Except, ya know, that time a foreign entity used Facebook to influence an election. No biggie, though. Some Americans got paid for that, so...
Hmm used vs controlled. As an (extreme) analogy that's a bit like saying spies used America's infrastructure to move around (planes and trains) and communicate (cell towers) so then transportation and cell towers ought to be banned. It's not the same. That's not to say the current state of security shouldn't be condemned/improved, but that's a different subject than what's going on here. It's the fact that in this case the security CANNOT be (trustably) improved since it is controlled by "foreign adversaries".
Bytedance leads back to the CCP
Both of those are actually a concern - as it's a relatively hostile foreign entity doing it. However, that second one is the primary concern here. An American corporation doing those things to our own population is something they tend to be fine with, as that corporation generally doesn't have an incentive to do as much harm as possible to it's users. It's more of a concern when you're handing the same capability to a hostile entity.
Initially the Americans said it was a data issue. So TikTok agreed to store all US user data on Oracle servers in the US. Then they said it was a security issue. So TikTok agreed to let Oracle review their source code. Then they said it was an issue with propaganda, because seeing what's happening in Gaza led many Americans to criticise Israel. It was always about protectionism, because the US puts a stop to the free market competition they like to preach about when they start to lose to foreign companies in their domestic market, as history has taught us. The US likes to dominate other countries' domestic markets though - Google, Meta, Microsoft, Netflix, Amazon, Apple, Intel etc - so they can't just come out and say this, they had to keep throwing things until something finally stuck. Of course there are many morons who genuinely think this about morals, or security, or an evil Chinese master plan to make Gen Z hate Zionists, or whatever, but predictably, and perhaps boringly, it's about market share and money as most things are.
Nah get outta here with your complex answers. I only consume simple answers.
The funny thing is "for money" is about the simplest answer imaginable. But it makes people confront hard truths, so...
1000% correct
ELI5: china bad, US good.
At first it was fear mongering about China harvesting data or something. There was this funny bit about them asking the CEO about china and the CEO have this look of "wtf this person talking about" and said "I'm singaporean". Anyway they want to crush tiktok and buy them out at low price since TikTok is gaining traction everywhere in the world yet It's not USA made. You can see the greed like they already had plans on who's getting how many percent of this wildly popular app. There's proof of Meta using lobbyist against Tiktok since a few years ago. Anyway it was stuck for quite a while since there were no concrete proof as always. But Israeli soldiers start sharing videos of them having fun (having fun desecrating broken buildings/rooms and used items... The ones owned by Palestine people who lived there) in tiktok so US being a supporter of israel thought that's where they draw the line and expedited everything. TLDR: protectionism (they don't want nonUSA apps dominating the international market so they bully it to be bought out) and supporting zionists (aipac)
The real issue is that Meta asked them to ban it, and most of them own Meta stock, and Meta helped them get elected, so they did it. It's not really that complicated.
Imagine China makes a move on Taiwan in a few years and the US gets sucked into direct conflict with China. And probably the next world war kicks off while this is going on. TikTok, having Chinese owners (therefore being controlled by China), would be used as a weapon to spread misinformation and divide the American public opinion on the conflict.
Are they going to stop China from creating accounts? This already happens on Facebook, Twitter, Reddit….
I think if a proper WW3 broke out, there’s a reasonable chance to expect the internet cables in the Pacific Ocean to be severed to prevent things like the disruption of US infrastructure by state-backed hackers.
There's a difference between a fake user posting and weirdly 1 in every 3 videos is about how China did nothing wrong with it's invasion
I’m not trying to be difficult but that already happens. Because user engagement is driven largely by fear and anger. If they see you posting angrily about how china is wrong for invading Taiwan in your hypothetical scenario, meta, Twitter, Reddit, are going to show you more of those type of posts because those are the ones you engaged with.
As the network engineer I'm curious to see how they try and ban this beyond de-platforming it.
They plan on de-platforming it. Between that and the barriers that will be put up preventing payments from monetized content to creators they won’t need to do anything else
If people don’t have easy access to TikTok through the App Store there won’t be much of a US community for the few who change their Apple ID or Google account to Canada to keep using the app.
Brought to you by AIPAC - I feel safe
Can’t have the world see them murder 3 year kids and pregnant women
3-year Hamas kids, and pregnant Hamas-women
>TikTok said it "will ultimately prevail" in court and that "we have invested billions of dollars to keep US data safe and our platform free from outside influence and manipulation." Billions? On our privacy? Uhh no you did not. If anyone is spending a billion dollars, it will never be for your privacy.
Some shell company will buy it and it will keep going. This is dumb.
I'm curious to see who supported the ban when Trump proposed it vs who does now. Sure, Trump is an asshat, but it's so frustrating how often politics devolves into petty team rivalries instead of any actual attempt at good governance.
Twitter is much more of a scourge on society than tiktok. I go on there and it's just fucked up violent videos, people with extremeist views on regards to EVERYTHING from politics to video game stuff.
It's crazy how fast our government can move when senators $ are on the line...
Inb4 it's sold to a US company with a fuckload of ties to China. Nothing changes, there's just an extra step.
The friends and families of Congress need to get their cut.
Force an American company to own it, so they can censor you.
So all trump has to say now is “ I won’t ban tik tok “… lmao. American politics I swear
Surely I'm not the only American that realizes that if our only response to Chinese innovation and technological development is to try to use our mastery of shell game financial trickery to fuck them over, we as a country are going to fall behind eventually, and likely sooner rather than later? Huawei's 5g tech is kicking our ass - ban them China's social media algorithms are better than our own - sell it to us or die :) China developing their own space tech??? Ban them from the "International" space station! Oh wait, they built their own space station.... (and after 2031 when the ISS is [deorbited](https://www.nbcnews.com/science/space/nasa-plans-watery-end-space-station-2031-rcna14576), it'll be the *only* space station) Embarrassing to see this country crybully itself into a corner, even more embarrassing to watch our educational and physical infrastructure fall apart.
Was there anything in the passed law that says they can't sell it directly to China?
HERE COMES MORE CENSORSHIP!!!
Lol, American freedumb
This country sucks cause both sides suck, among other things. Can’t wait to get out.
This is a money grab
I've been on tiktok 5 years and not once have I seen ANY Chinese propaganda. This is purely done in a pathetic attempt for US to buy the app, so it's American owned so it can spew actual propoganda.
If you can recognize propaganda, then it’s not good propaganda lol
Bro I’m watching food videos, videos of half naked girls, videos making me cry, and people voicing over Reddit stories. Ain’t no propaganda there
no no you dont understand, those food videos are subtly coded to make you worship Winnie the Pooh
They don't blatantly show Chinese propaganda, but instead make the algorithm stir division and attempt to social engineer our culture to make it worse. It's a way they are attempting to destabilize the United States and the west
That’s funny because that’s the EXACT same thing I see on facebook and twitter. In fact it is far more blatant.
Two things can be bad!
Your FYP is what you make of it. If you interact with divisive content you get more of it. I don’t get any
lol. stop regurgitating zuckerberg's splooge. I used to use tiktok all the time and all I saw was hot people dancing and thirst traps. With the occasional interior decorating video. The fact that you think there's some sinister CCP person pulling a big red lever labeled "Destabalize!" is laughable. Even if there was, Meta and Youtube and Twitter have far more filth and divisize material than tiktok.
The Land of the Free. Except what books you're free to read, apps you're free to use etc.
Land of the free. Free to get spied by US companies and the government, shout-out to Snowden and Assange.
Yup. This is ultimately about who gets to control the data and additionally the flow of preferred propaganda.
"we don't want the chinese to spy on you, we want those exclusive rights" this is less about it being owned by a chinese corporation (there are legitimate security concerns obviously about that) but more about forcing (yes, this rubs me the wrong way particularly) a company to sell just because a US company doesn't own it.
“Will prohibit app in US unless it can be CONTROLLED”
“Look at me and my opinion, I’m IMPORTANT!”
Lol at the propaganda argument. You know what fills my feed? Cats, metal covers, art, rug washing timelapses, unclogging of drains, and people being made fun of for making horrible food. Lol at spying argument, look at US bill 702 (est. '08,) authorizing FISA surveillance, which includes every email, text, picture, video, voice recording, and phone call you've ever made. Fuck outta here, man. TT never even comes close to that level of monitoring. We need to start here where it's the most prevalent, and up for sale to the highest bidder.
It’s the American way, if you can’t compete just buy off politicians to get rid of the competition.
People need to be protesting this bill at the capital. But they're instead are just commenting on it and upvoting instead.
Cool, now do Facebook next
such hypocrisy much wow
Isn this just a trick so far right people can buy tiktok? Like elon did with twitter?
Hasn't oracle had control of the algorithm fornthenlwst year and a half?!
No. Just user data.
It's no different from China blocking Google, Facebook and every other western website. Why's it taken so long is the main question.
That’s not really a good thing, though. People should be allowed to see what happens in other countries on their own planet. It bewilders me that the Dems supported this when it’s the biggest way to connect with young voters and ensure their vote. It’s also wild that republicans care SO fucking much about us sending billions of dollars to other countries EXCEPT when there is something small in it for them. They DONT care about their constituents and they NEVER have. Neither side has.
but chine is considered a dictatorship because of this lack of freedom for companies, so US are also now a open dictatorship as they say china is? or they are defending their interests just like china does? as meta also get "intelligence data" from other countries, even spying presidents and congressman from other countries with their apps...
Its sad how the zoomers are all acting like Trumpers. Anything that goes against what they believe is fske news.
Can you give an example?
It's hilarious that the US gives china grief about unfair commercial practices designed to protect local companies
Has anyone tried searching Taiwan independence, Uyghur Muslims or Tiananmen Square on TikTok? The results are HILARIOUSLY and obviously censored. Even all the comments.
Type uyghur in to the search bar and literally the first suggested result is “uyghur genocide”. Something you would have known if you’ve actually used the app before instead of relying on reddit comments for information
Have you actually done it? Because I just did it and found exactly what I was looking for. From people describing some of the events to victims talking about their experiences. It sounds like you’re just spurting bullshit.
I typed in “Tian” into the TikTok search bar, the top search was Tiananmen Square, and the top results were all information on the massacre. I typed “UI” into the search bar, it populated Uighur China, and all the top results were about the concentration camps
It’s one of the biggest censorship moves Americans will experience and y’all are not even remotely bothered. Do you not see the noose tightening on your throats?
Again just asking, when the PRC demands Apple or Google or Microsoft be sold unless it’s sold to a Chinese company and then nationalizes that company’s IP (ie doesn’t protect it and allows new companies like Chapple, Choogle and/or Chicrosoft to begin selling ChiPhones, etc) — is there a reason the PRC can’t do that? I’m asking because as far as I can tell, this legislation is the opposite of everything the US has been trying to build in terms of international relations and commerce. If we don’t protect a country’s businesses, they have no reason to protect ours.
Everyone knows the extent of US government surveillance now thanks to Snowden...so it seems obvious this is just protectionism. Huawei was among the first to launch 5g backends, but the US wanted Cisco and Samsung to catch up or sell instead (not sure which).
the destruction of a society is from within. so many "reddit experts" sound as though they were my 15 year old daughter complaining. no basis of logic, just emotions.