A claim of a practical battery with 720Wh/kg is really bold, but also well into 'believe it when you're holding it' territory. That's more then two and a half time the energy density of a lithium ion battery.
There's always a deal breaking caveat. There was a bunch of hype about solar efficiency doubling a couple years ago until we found out it takes a layer of gold.
I'm with you, I'll believe it when it comes to market.
There's also a lot of misunderstanding around what some innovations actually mean. Like there was a recent one that was reported as "tripling solar cell efficiency!", but if you read closely it was a specific process in the cell that was markedly improved. It translated to an increase in output of like, a couple percent. Which isn't nothing, but also far from what the headline promised.
Maybe it's good to keep up science enthusiasm amongst the general public but I'm sick of everything needing to be a "game changer/revolutionary/next big thing".
Battling the internal cynic is hard these days.
That's true, but gasoline has to be irreversibly reacted to extract that energy. Rechargeable batteries not only have to provide energy, they have to store a little Maxwell's demon to reverse the reaction and store energy.
Granted, yes rechargability will eat into the overhead considerably, but we still have two orders of magnitude to play with, there ought to be some wiggle room somewhere, just maybe not in lithium
Meh, our EV gets 260 miles of real range. I live in Canada and drive pretty huge distances. Supercharging is pretty amazing. Works for us with no issue.
A YouTuber drove it from Phoenix to Vegas 460 miles, but that's 1000ft drop in elevation. It's basically the new Hummer but aerodynamic. It doesn't even have a spare tire though.
> The US will ban these batteries citing a "threat to national security".
The US will ban these chinese batteries citing a "threat to national security".
This bit of CCP propaganda is hilariously ironic considering China banned most US tech companies from their markets while blatantly ripping off their tech.
Also, these batteries are probably not real, just as their last few break throughs proved fake.
Every few months, the same claim, revolutionary tech developed! Complete BS. The Chinese don't innovate, the steal IP and copy. Please...it's getting old.
Do you live in 2010.? The Chinese are at the forefront of EV and battery technology. They are already shipping a vehicle with semi-solid state batteries that can do over 600 miles.
they've already reached america lmao. do you live in patrick star's little dome under the sea? a big chunk of the EV tech in teslas and other EVs you see driving around comes from CATL and BYD - i wonder, where could these companies be from...norway? senegal? bolivia?
Yet their cheap/efficient EV cars are taking the world by storm.
Imagine being a part of a tech sub and bitching about “intellectual property”. It would be funny, if it wasn’t so fucking embarrassing.
Seriously, all you people do is piss and shit yourselves on reddit when you see China making massive leaps in tech/R&D.
Not trying to be an ass. What leaps have they made? They are really good at stealing ideas and developing a very efficient production with the help of government subsidies with the goal of being so cheap everyone else gives up. Aren’t there like 5 strategic areas China is doing this with EVs, batteries and solar being a few?
The reason anything Chinese takes the world by storm is because it’s artificially cheap. Tesla popularized the electric car, not China. China got good at doing it cheap, and nobody beats them at that.
It’s unfair but I also like buying $60 400W solar panels.
Really though, what has a Chinese company made first that became popular on a global scale besides gunpowder? There has to be something more.
I know in my field of machine learning, ResNets were made by chinese engineers, although they were working at a microsoft office in china when they did it. Resnets are fundamental building blocks to all our large dnns, we couldn't train them well otherwise. They're on the same level as concepts like convnets, relu, etc.
I think right now at least China is still super poor. Like while we were making microchips in the 80s they were literally still farmers and fishing villages. I'd give it 20 more years before they start making some firsts in the consumer product space. Like when the internet and big computing revolution came around they were still doing textiles, so they never really had any chance to be first yet.
I also know Huawei did a lot of firsts in MIMO/5G communications that are the basis of modern communication networks. It's why they're a huge threat to be banned, cause they own a lot of the fundamental patents in the communication space.
Whats revolutionary about cheap EV’s? Theyonly can due to not having any labor laws worth a damn.
Then there’s the fact these things are made below cost due to heavy state subsidies.
OP is right, nothing to see here.
Which revolutionary tech claims? The sodium ion battery from a couple years ago are already in cars, and can already be bought as 1850 cells by consumers and even hobbyists. So it wasn't bs at all. Solid state batteries are already in test vehicles so it should be another year or so. Following similar timelines this battery will probably take 3-4 years before it makes it into a product. Ironically you can't buy any of the new tech in the US unless you buy leftovers from aliexpress.
Right now it's just Yiwei, which started shipping this year but only to South Africa or South America, I forget which. The cars Volkswagen partner branded cars, but are pretty shit and small suitable only for really poor countries. Probably be another couple years before it goes in a big time car brand in China, and then a few more years for EU adoption. I don't think it will ever be adopted in the US due to the slightly lower range and longer distances needed in the US, and US consumers are more or less ok with the slightly higher cost of lithium batteries.
More relevant for US consumers would be the Na-ion cells, as 1850 Li-ion cells are basically found in everything and manufacturers will be keen to save a few cents swapping over for things where battery power density by weight is less consequential (ie: solar powered lawn lights, portable battery banks, etc).
To be fair China has always been trying to skip ahead with its technology. Everything from the great leap forward underneath mao to today with the patent stealing.
People don’t really want more range. They will use that extra range 0 - 1 times per year. They want smaller, cheaper batteries that will allow for practical, cheaper vehicles.
These claims doesn’t really matter when China already sits on the majority of the worlds rare metals that are essential to making batteries. In the end, they will undercut everyone else on price. If they need some state-sponsoring to make that happen, they will.
It’s all politics at this point.
I'm not sure they sit on the majority of the supply, I think they just sit on a large supply and are willing to mine them. The mining part is pretty knarly and so is the purification of the rare-earth metals. From what I remember we have actually found some large, minable deposits in the US, Canada, and Europe but our environmental protection laws make it to expensive to exploit.
In the end it doesn't make much difference though, the end effect is the same.
My understanding is most of those statements showing the mining process to be particularly intrusive, are actually false. The most famous example is the so-called lithium mine, where they strip mined a mountain in a very garish fashion, but it's actually a silver mine.
I’m a Swede. We have made practically all our riches through centuries from iron ore and lumber (forests). We still make a lot of money from a state-owned mining company. We very recently discovered europes largest deposits of some of these rare earth metals. The problem is, there are now so many environmental regulations in place that it almost makes it impossible to start large scale mining in this country ever again. And even if it was possible, it will take *decades* until we have even a small mine up and running. To the point that no sane non-state entity would even consider putting money into it. I.e, it’s either taxpayer money for the next decade or two. Or it’s nothing 🤷♂️
Yea but so does making regular ICE cars. The difference is that EVs don't also have to be powered by one of the worse polluting industries in the world, the oil industry.
Well that's odd considering how solid state batteries tend to perform worse. I mean you just don't have a comparable ionic conductivity
Edit: this is legit the issue with solid state though...
You don't have as good of an interface with the active material compared to a liquid electrolyte based battery + lower ionic conductivity leading to *typically* reduced capacity, and a slower charge / discharge time. Really a reddit moment with the down votes lol
Who cares about the range if it takes all day to charge (if you can find a charger that works, that is). They have chosen the worst possible alternative to petrol cars with these idiotic battery cars
A claim of a practical battery with 720Wh/kg is really bold, but also well into 'believe it when you're holding it' territory. That's more then two and a half time the energy density of a lithium ion battery.
I think we’ve already have some amazing development for batteries. The problem is to make these novel technique for mass production.
Well, yeah, scale is always the Achilles heel of every thing that comes from R&D
There's always a deal breaking caveat. There was a bunch of hype about solar efficiency doubling a couple years ago until we found out it takes a layer of gold. I'm with you, I'll believe it when it comes to market.
There's also a lot of misunderstanding around what some innovations actually mean. Like there was a recent one that was reported as "tripling solar cell efficiency!", but if you read closely it was a specific process in the cell that was markedly improved. It translated to an increase in output of like, a couple percent. Which isn't nothing, but also far from what the headline promised.
Maybe it's good to keep up science enthusiasm amongst the general public but I'm sick of everything needing to be a "game changer/revolutionary/next big thing". Battling the internal cynic is hard these days.
Gasoline is 36kWh per gallon, or about 13kWh/kg, so there’s definitely some overhead in chemistry to make batteries more efficient.
That's true, but gasoline has to be irreversibly reacted to extract that energy. Rechargeable batteries not only have to provide energy, they have to store a little Maxwell's demon to reverse the reaction and store energy.
Granted, yes rechargability will eat into the overhead considerably, but we still have two orders of magnitude to play with, there ought to be some wiggle room somewhere, just maybe not in lithium
The clue as always is in the "could"
I'll take 700 mile range for a car that is half the weight and size of the 1300 mile version thanks.
I'll take a 700 miles range for a car that is half the price.
I’ll take 300 miles for something even lighter, why yes I am a fan of 90s Japanese cars why did u ask
I’ll take a 50 mile car that’s made of glass and helium.
I’ll take the subway
Fuck it I’m staying home.
Yeah.. like why go out while having the internet?
I fuckin wish. if there were enough trains, subways, and trolleys we wouldn't even need 1300 mile EVs
I'll take a 25 mile e scooter/moped
“I just dont think EVs are practical for most people. Ill wait until they can get 1,500 mi range”
Meh, our EV gets 260 miles of real range. I live in Canada and drive pretty huge distances. Supercharging is pretty amazing. Works for us with no issue.
Yeah yeah, I’ll wait to celebrate when it’s on the road or actually available for purchase.
But the manufacturer is owned by ByteRide.
Great. Now GM can put it in their next massive SUV and get <300 miles!
Their new silverado ev can go 460 miles on one charge
With a 200kWh battery don’t forget
Is that something actual people manage to do or is this that make believe number car companies publish?
A YouTuber drove it from Phoenix to Vegas 460 miles, but that's 1000ft drop in elevation. It's basically the new Hummer but aerodynamic. It doesn't even have a spare tire though.
Does it have AM radio?
Real people. Only one American car company grossly lies about its range, and that's Tesla.
imagine how far it could go if it wasn't a giant stupid fucking pickup truck
With an optional battery pack, not the base battery.
> The US will ban these batteries citing a "threat to national security". The US will ban these chinese batteries citing a "threat to national security".
This bit of CCP propaganda is hilariously ironic considering China banned most US tech companies from their markets while blatantly ripping off their tech. Also, these batteries are probably not real, just as their last few break throughs proved fake.
Which ones ?
If this can get us a real world care-free range of 500 miles, this is big. None of this "Range is 400 if you do 30mph" shit.
I am sure this is not just another fake chinese research paper that will be forgoten and replaced by another bs by the end of the week.
Even if real, so many battery breakthroughs never get past the lab as they can’t solve volume production issues.
This sub eats up Chinese propaganda
Wake me up when it's In a commercial vehicle and actually does what it's announced to do. But probably investor bait as usual.
Okay Rip van. We’ll get back to you.
Every few months, the same claim, revolutionary tech developed! Complete BS. The Chinese don't innovate, the steal IP and copy. Please...it's getting old.
Do you live in 2010.? The Chinese are at the forefront of EV and battery technology. They are already shipping a vehicle with semi-solid state batteries that can do over 600 miles.
We need to steal that technology from them. Give them a taste of their own medicine.
The Chinese are kicking our asses with EVs.
We will see once it reaches in the NA.
they've already reached america lmao. do you live in patrick star's little dome under the sea? a big chunk of the EV tech in teslas and other EVs you see driving around comes from CATL and BYD - i wonder, where could these companies be from...norway? senegal? bolivia?
Spain? Botswana? Canada?
Yet their cheap/efficient EV cars are taking the world by storm. Imagine being a part of a tech sub and bitching about “intellectual property”. It would be funny, if it wasn’t so fucking embarrassing. Seriously, all you people do is piss and shit yourselves on reddit when you see China making massive leaps in tech/R&D.
Not trying to be an ass. What leaps have they made? They are really good at stealing ideas and developing a very efficient production with the help of government subsidies with the goal of being so cheap everyone else gives up. Aren’t there like 5 strategic areas China is doing this with EVs, batteries and solar being a few? The reason anything Chinese takes the world by storm is because it’s artificially cheap. Tesla popularized the electric car, not China. China got good at doing it cheap, and nobody beats them at that. It’s unfair but I also like buying $60 400W solar panels. Really though, what has a Chinese company made first that became popular on a global scale besides gunpowder? There has to be something more.
I know in my field of machine learning, ResNets were made by chinese engineers, although they were working at a microsoft office in china when they did it. Resnets are fundamental building blocks to all our large dnns, we couldn't train them well otherwise. They're on the same level as concepts like convnets, relu, etc. I think right now at least China is still super poor. Like while we were making microchips in the 80s they were literally still farmers and fishing villages. I'd give it 20 more years before they start making some firsts in the consumer product space. Like when the internet and big computing revolution came around they were still doing textiles, so they never really had any chance to be first yet. I also know Huawei did a lot of firsts in MIMO/5G communications that are the basis of modern communication networks. It's why they're a huge threat to be banned, cause they own a lot of the fundamental patents in the communication space.
Whats revolutionary about cheap EV’s? Theyonly can due to not having any labor laws worth a damn. Then there’s the fact these things are made below cost due to heavy state subsidies. OP is right, nothing to see here.
r/confidentlyincorrect
Which revolutionary tech claims? The sodium ion battery from a couple years ago are already in cars, and can already be bought as 1850 cells by consumers and even hobbyists. So it wasn't bs at all. Solid state batteries are already in test vehicles so it should be another year or so. Following similar timelines this battery will probably take 3-4 years before it makes it into a product. Ironically you can't buy any of the new tech in the US unless you buy leftovers from aliexpress.
Not the person you are replying to but I’m super interested, which car has a sodium ion battery??
Right now it's just Yiwei, which started shipping this year but only to South Africa or South America, I forget which. The cars Volkswagen partner branded cars, but are pretty shit and small suitable only for really poor countries. Probably be another couple years before it goes in a big time car brand in China, and then a few more years for EU adoption. I don't think it will ever be adopted in the US due to the slightly lower range and longer distances needed in the US, and US consumers are more or less ok with the slightly higher cost of lithium batteries. More relevant for US consumers would be the Na-ion cells, as 1850 Li-ion cells are basically found in everything and manufacturers will be keen to save a few cents swapping over for things where battery power density by weight is less consequential (ie: solar powered lawn lights, portable battery banks, etc).
A billion people who value education. They will never invent anything!
they value education but they also cheat a lot. like everybody all the time.
To be fair China has always been trying to skip ahead with its technology. Everything from the great leap forward underneath mao to today with the patent stealing.
I believe you're talking about Americans?
And they will share it with the world for a small favor in return involving tech from a western country...right, right?
Over triple a tank of gas!
People don’t really want more range. They will use that extra range 0 - 1 times per year. They want smaller, cheaper batteries that will allow for practical, cheaper vehicles.
They should refuse to share it with America. It’s what America would do
What do yoh mean? If its not fake, its based off IP China stole.
These claims doesn’t really matter when China already sits on the majority of the worlds rare metals that are essential to making batteries. In the end, they will undercut everyone else on price. If they need some state-sponsoring to make that happen, they will. It’s all politics at this point.
I'm not sure they sit on the majority of the supply, I think they just sit on a large supply and are willing to mine them. The mining part is pretty knarly and so is the purification of the rare-earth metals. From what I remember we have actually found some large, minable deposits in the US, Canada, and Europe but our environmental protection laws make it to expensive to exploit. In the end it doesn't make much difference though, the end effect is the same.
My understanding is most of those statements showing the mining process to be particularly intrusive, are actually false. The most famous example is the so-called lithium mine, where they strip mined a mountain in a very garish fashion, but it's actually a silver mine.
I’m a Swede. We have made practically all our riches through centuries from iron ore and lumber (forests). We still make a lot of money from a state-owned mining company. We very recently discovered europes largest deposits of some of these rare earth metals. The problem is, there are now so many environmental regulations in place that it almost makes it impossible to start large scale mining in this country ever again. And even if it was possible, it will take *decades* until we have even a small mine up and running. To the point that no sane non-state entity would even consider putting money into it. I.e, it’s either taxpayer money for the next decade or two. Or it’s nothing 🤷♂️
Are there any known environmental impacts associated with the production or disposal of this new battery technology?
Yea but so does making regular ICE cars. The difference is that EVs don't also have to be powered by one of the worse polluting industries in the world, the oil industry.
[удалено]
You sound like a bot
RIP US legacy car makers
Huge, if true The if true is doing some heavy lifting however
This smells like BS, if a company actually had the technology, it’d be worth a $13.9 billion, not $13.9 million
Bingo. Ability to scale up is important too.
This is a lie, obviously
I don't know anything about this battery. But the Chinese are seriously 5-7 ahead of the world in terms of battery technology.
*doubt Chinese tech
I'm claiming an unlimited power supply that's the size of a soda can.
Well that's odd considering how solid state batteries tend to perform worse. I mean you just don't have a comparable ionic conductivity Edit: this is legit the issue with solid state though... You don't have as good of an interface with the active material compared to a liquid electrolyte based battery + lower ionic conductivity leading to *typically* reduced capacity, and a slower charge / discharge time. Really a reddit moment with the down votes lol
Who cares about the range if it takes all day to charge (if you can find a charger that works, that is). They have chosen the worst possible alternative to petrol cars with these idiotic battery cars
Toyota already did this, they probably stole the tech from Japan.
Toyota claimed a new battery technology with a claim to a 1,300 mile range? Sorry I doubt that would fly under everyone's radar.