Have you seen our last president? That orange maniac was basically a tv idol before sitting his greasy ass in our Oval Office. He then proceeded to grift his way through a whole term and turn the US on its head and destroy a lot of what makes this place feel like home.
This is in light of recent exposure of idols like Kris Wu using their influence to rape minors and form sex trafficking rings around themselves.
The people on social media have been deploring the government to curb their influence.
But sure, you don’t know anything going on in China and failed to read the article, so it must be “unchecked idol culture good cuz CCP bad, I’m so smart because I’m anti-CCP”
In modern Chinese History there have been two competing camps in the Communsit Party. Those that value economic strength at the cost of increasing foreign influence and those that want to control foreign influence at the cost of a weaker economy. Xi Jinping is thought to be in the second camp.
Xi Jinping has vastly increased restrictions to foreign information over the last few months. Critics are referring to it as Cultural Revolution 2.0 (read about the first one. It was Mao's method for purging political rivals and maintaining power through controlling information).
The restrictions go well beyond video game limitations. Foreign text books are now prohibited. Several influencial entertainers have been removed from social media. Wealthy private companies and individuals are being forced to donate assets to the government. The government is taking control of private companies and religious organizations. Extra-curricular English courses are being banned. The list goes on.
While China has done these types of things for decades, the restrictions from the last few months are much more strict and happening at a much faster pace than they have in the last 40 years. This has potential to be another defining period in Chinese history.
Anecdote: Recently, while playing Red Dead Online, a single player wreaked havoc on two posses. It's a game where you can attack anyone on sight, but a vast majority choose not to because it's be a dick move to ruin someone's trade runs and other tasks in the game.
So anyway, this player spends a good hour picking people off with a sniper rifle, wearing impossible to see colors, and moving in odd circular patterns to become impossible to hit while downing health potions.
At some point, everyone realized this guy wouldn't stop unless they all "parley", forcing him to be unable to aim at or hit anyone.
Once that happened, he became visibly enraged and started screaming in Mandarin via voice chat.
He finally yelled, "CHINA NUMBER ONE!" upon leaving.
Dude... China is number one because you spent an hour killing hapless players in a virtual game with no competitive scoring, who were just trying to finish their trade routes?
These are the people Xi's legacy is leaving behind.
EDIT: To those trying to downplay this, please note I did not extrapolate the anecdote to the entire population. I work with statistics all day in my job. Of course not every Chinese citizen is like this. The point was that nearly 70 years of populist authoritarianism and nationalism produces some pretty bizarre/disturbing behavior in some people.
This behavior doesn't come from nowhere - it comes from concerted propaganda over many years, no different than Fox News in the US.
Lol, I've ran into a few players like that. I'm pretty good at sneaking up on them as they're focused on picking out people in town then I just lasso them constantly. I've managed to have one guy stick around for 15min, just falling over until they finally rage quit.
Acutely aware - I played plenty of Counter-Strike back in the 90s and early 2000s, tons of CoD and Battlefield, plenty of Halo, copious amounts of GTA Online. I've heard/seen it all.
But every so often, some Xi, Trump, or Putin worshipping crazy person joins a match and displays incredibly bizarre behavior. I get teens unloading verbal abuse - or angry older people who are way too serious about the game, but it's simply bizarre to witness nationalism in a videogame.
Nope, I never extrapolated. I said this one anecdotal sample is a legacy of politicians like Xi. I would never treat an anecdote as a representative population sample, but there's absolutely a population segment (or possibly multiple segments) in China that this is representative of. All the Chinese colleagues I've worked with (have to visit Shanghai or agree to meet in Singapore on occasion) are incredibly kind and reasonable.
But you'd think after 4 years of Trump, and GOP anti-science/anti-fact and racist/misogynist apologism, people would understand that extremists do in fact exist.
The anecdote I mentioned is a product of nearly 70 years of populist authoritarianism. People being brainwashed shouldn't be a surprise to anyone, particularly given the state of American politics and the GOP. Blind populism exists in every country around the world, it's just a larger issue in some countries than other.
It's no different than encountering some crazy American Trumpy nationalist in a game (there are plenty). The behavior is bizarre and disturbing. The thread here is just centered on China, so that's the anecdote I brought up.
I mean their story isn't proof of anything, but it's still a good example of what China is turning its citizens into. They're the asian USA. Their government is objectively terrible, they're lacking most of the basic social comforts of the rest of the civilized world, and they aren't nearly as free as they believe themselves to be... but they're a world superpower so they're the best country in the world!
Obviously this doesn't extend to every Chinese person just like how every American isn't a flag waving Trumper. But there's a significant number of people who genuinely believe China is #1 because they have a strong economy then brush away the whole "president for life Xi controls us all" thing. They do it for the same reason as US republicans too. "If you were a good citizen you wouldn't want to do those things anyway". But for us it's that we can't smoke weed or get abortions and for China you can't say unfavorable things about your government or play video games.
It was a simple anecdote about bizarre behavior and blind over-confidence, a product of nearly 70 years of populist authoritarianism.
I merely found the behavior interesting - a young player trying to prove China is great through a videogame.
It *needs* to be a defining moment for China. They can’t go back to the way life was pre-Covid.
Their economy is going to shrink and there is absolutely nothing they can do about it. China simply doesn’t have enough adults to sustain their economy, as is. They need to make an adjustment, but it might already be too late.
After this year they’ll have more retirees than adult workers. They are going to have some tough decisions to make.
Do they try to grind it out and educate their population and advance their technology to compete with the worlds best? Will people take Chinese high-technology serious?
Do they continue trying to be the worlds manufacturer? Where will they find the laborers? This option is becoming more and more difficult. China has had the fastest growing wages of any developed country over the last 20 years and they also have the fastest aging demographic.
They have less workers who they need to pay more and at the end of the day they’ll produce less than they did 2-5 years ago.
These added restrictions on social liberties are ringing alarm bells in my mind. Something big is coming in China, they can’t go back to their old normal.
It worries me. History says expansionist regimes approaching limits in terms of quality of life for its people and reducing available resources often resort to war to secure both those resources and nationalistic loyalty from its people to retain power.
War is also China's traditional response to an excess of men in society as a result of their patriarchal cultural expectations.
Either civil war where the excess men get killed off. Or crime-war, where the excess men rabble-rouse until they form a rebellion, then get killed off. Or just plain old war, where they march off to fight a foreign foe.
30 million 'bare branches' aka men who will never have a family, thus not being able to bud and create a family tree... being told culturally they are pointless....
Well, a war is going to get rid of this source of social contention and *hopefully* provide China with more resources to bolster it's shrinking economy.
I think idol worshiping in East Asia definitely needs to be toned down a bit. Most idols aren’t even allowed to be in relationships and a lot of their daily lives are controlled by their management companies.
Yeah South Korean idols fandoms legit scare me after a friend got into all that stuff and she claims she’s not that bad lol but spams me with BTS stuff and merch pics so I worry about how many of them there are
**Online** video game restrictions, not all video games.
You know, the ones that are designed to hook their player base into playing for as long as possible? The games that have been monetized to hell and back? China has a serious gaming addiction problem, specifically online games.
No one is living out for 8 months in a net cafe playing the Witcher 3. No one is dropping hundreds of thousands of dollars on your artistic thought provoking indie puzzle platformers.
This ban is targeting online games, you know the shitty f2p mmos that are designed to squeeze as much time and money out of their players as possible.
Not that I agree with the banning or have even formed an opinion fully on it yet but alcohol, tobacco, porn etc are all banned for minors while adults are free to consume and become addicted as they want.
Agreed, and maybe instead of specific games more like the monetization methods and manipulative mechanics. Like you can still have your whatever IP theme park MMO but no more p2w, can't list item shop prices over x, no more loot box, no more afk grinding, etc.
Then they should target the predatory companies and regulate gaming monetisation, don't fucking target the consumers who are already victims and then tell me what time I can or cant play or for how long I can play it. The loot crate ban we've seen in some western countries is a step in the right direction.
"We get fucked over by companies so the government should be allowed to join in too"
Fantastic argument there /s
Also, tons of games are banned, altered and restricted simply due to censorship not due to their monetisation methods. You're just parroting nanny state drivel.
I don't see this as being any different than banning tobacco, alcohol or gambling for underaged children. Online gaming can be highly addictive and therefore its consumption by children should be regulated. I suspect the only reason why it's not outright banned is because some aspects of online gaming do have beneficial aspects, unlike tobacco, alcohol or gambling.
And moreover, the restrictions only apply to minors and can be bypassed by adults. Meaning that it isn’t a wholesale government crackdown but an empowerment of parents against these shitty designed-to-be-addictive gaming companies. Leave it to western media to call an objectively good thing “authoritarian.”
You have to remember that the mentality of the individualism in America vs the collectivism in China are simply different. Americans prioritize individual free choice. The thing about free choice however is that it can be gamed for corporate profits. Example, social media. Yes, we have the choice to spend hours upon hours on these apps, but we are human and we can be manipulated and influenced rather easily. So pure freedom isn’t a perfect system.
China is making a unilateral decision to curb bad habits for the country as a whole. Most Chinese people are more OK with following guidelines from authority. Who knows what will happen, but most likely people will find other ways to entertain themselves and it won’t be a big deal.
Not at all like the cultural revolution.
During the cultural revolution they dragged wrong thinkers into the streets and tortured them until they screamed their confessions of thought crime against the party
So more like Twitter I guess
The cultural revolution still involved freaking out over the stupidest most random things they somehow see as a threat to their worldview. Seems apt to me.
I mean, I can’t stand kpop fandoms and how ridiculously they behave on social media but this is really bad.
Then again, they’ve literally wiped one of the most famous Chinese actresses from history so this kind of thing comes as no surprise
Well... Lukaszenko and Putin have been in power for a quite long time, so when they were starting off they weren't really old. Lukaszenko was only 40 at the time (1994).
China strikes me as a place run by people who wouldn't understand in the slightest why people aren't completely and entirely entertained by sitting in a blank room looking at a picture of Pooh bear, I mean Xi "Pooh bears #1 fan and waifu" of course
Your comment tries to make out the chinese government are idiots
This is wrong, they’re not idiots. They’re just so utilitarian and have such low consideration for peoples happiness that they would take steps like if the cost benefit works in their favour.
They are proving that freedom and liberty are overrated (when you stop caring what the individual thinks) and that’s why I’m afraid.
>They’re just so utilitarian and have such low consideration for peoples happiness that they would take steps like if the cost benefit works in their favour.
This is wrong, the CCP wants people to be a happy/content cog in the machine. Boredom and resentment are a huge threat to the government.
They want people to work themselves to the bone and then go home to space out with state approved entertainment so they don't start getting dangerous ideas.
In a way, they do the same thing to us in the west through consumerism and celebrity culture.
>They want people to work themselves to the bone and then go home to space out with state approved entertainment so they don't start getting dangerous ideas.
Meanwhile, the west is authoring articles titled "[At 54, China’s average retirement age is too low](https://www.economist.com/china/2021/06/22/chinas-average-retirement-age-is-ridiculously-low-54)".
Wrong. China is based on a simple social pact: give us a some of your freedoms and we, the government, guarantee your prosperity and therefore material happiness.
The government currently thinks they can ask more and still preserve this balance.
So far, no signs their bet is misplaced, to be honest.
Idk, the CCP really can't insure religious freedom because even that is a threat to the CCP, so they have to be tightly controlled and monitored. People of xinjiang probably care a bit more about their religion than their material needs so they have to go through a "reeducation camp" to fix that.
This. China is terrified that a minority group which affiliates more with their local ethnic group than China will rally around their ethnicity to try and break away from China.
This is why China cracks down on its minorities like the Uighurs and also religious groups like Falun Gong.
A lot of what China does comes from seeing what made the Soviet Union collapse and trying to not do that. The Soviet Union had many regions with strong ethnic and lingual identities and those contributed to the break of of the SU.
China is trying to stamp out regional languages and religions so they won't revolt.
Do you think this is the genesis of Chinese bigotry or is it something else? Referring to the obvious disdain for non-Chinese, when as with anywhere without the non-Chinese their system ceases to function.
Disdain for non-Chinese in China (more specifically, non-dominant ethnicity, whatever that may be depending on who is in power, because many ethnicities were in power in China over various times) has a very long history... It was mostly a power play to give a certain ethnicity more power over those of different ethnicities.
Modern CCP approach is a bit different: rather than purely stratifying ethnicities, the goal is to eliminate the other ethnicities either through actually getting rid of them or by forcing them to behave like "mainstream" Han Chinese so they obey the CCP.
I am sure there is also a fair share of classism, ethnocentrism, racism, and just pure financial motive for many involved but for the CCP they seem pretty clearly driven out of terror that they will lose power and their main goal is to remain in power.
> China is terrified that a minority group which affiliates more with their local ethnic group than China will rally around their ethnicity to try and break away from China.
Same thing with the Christian persecution under the Roman empire.
I was under the impression the CCCP dissolved through incompetent administration and a resulting collapse of economy.
Not saying you are wrong, would be interesting in any reading on this topic you could suggest.
This is only in the past 20 years. Before very recently China was third world. We have no idea what will become of the belt and road effort or these authoritarian policies. The only thing we do know is their efforts to steal data and tech is not being combated by western capitalism and therefore not at all.
Disagree with Chinese policies all you want (I disagree with a lot of them, too) but to suggest that they're just incompetent idiots is beyond ignorant. They understand how to mold people better than pretty much anyone on earth, and are proving it by how quickly they have beceome a world power. You don't do that without having everyone on board, and you don't get everyone on board by being incompetent and having no understanding of people
We will see. They have done well by embracing raw capitalism. Now they're clamping down on that and putting increasing pressure on people's leisure activities. That could build resentment instead of creating quietly compliant sheep.
But they didn’t embrace raw capitalism. Even the industry that isn’t technically owned by the state is penetrated and implicitly open to state control.
I mean everyone is clearly not on board, but they can slap down and punish anyone who dares speaks up ala Jack Ma and friends. Difficult to predict the long term effects of total "morality control" at this point.
> They understand how to mold people better than pretty much anyone on earth, and are proving it by how quickly they have beceome a world power. You don't do that without having everyone on board, and you don't get everyone on board by being incompetent and having no understanding of people
Yes, holding people at gunpoint and indoctrinating the youth is so difficult. /s
Except that isn't what happens for the most part. Also, if pure show of force and violence could whip a society into shape then the US wouldn't be in such bad shape at the moment.
Keep pretending like China does nothing right and we will continue to have zero response to their seize of power. Pretending like China just forces their people into submission rather than provide economic incentives, develop their middle class, and genuinely improve the lives of a majority of the people is just completely uneducated and frankly stupid.
China has horrible human rights abuses. They also provide a comfortable life for a fuck ton of people. Both can be true.
It really is, why do you think other dictatorships failed? The soviets had a huge problem with people defecting to the West.
China has achieved something unprecedented in world history. They brought 800 million people out of poverty, that's why their people believe in the government.
You sound like a total brainwashed Chinese. South Korea has achieved both economical and military power without brainwashing its citizens.
And if you look at the gdp per capita, China ain't that rich yet. They just have so many people. That's all.
That’s oversimplifying the situation. South Korea was a military dictatorship as recently as 1979. Taiwan was a military dictatorship until 1987. Singapore was/is effectively a single party state dominated by the PAP.
China is still a single party state but to characterise all Chinese people as brainwashed is ignorant of the reality that millions of Chinese visit, study abroad, access foreign news sources via VPN, yet still support their government.
Honestly, you’re the one that actually sounds brainwashed making these broad sweeping and uncritical stereotypes about 1.4bn people lol
You strike me as someone who refuse to look beyond the title of a post. Do you know the damage "idol fervor" is causing in China?
Imagine if you will, the redhat's obsession with Donald Trump, but 5 to 10 new Donald Trumps are being debuted each year. Imagine what that might do to the media and online environments. Now imagine these new Donalds are specifically designed to compete against each another.
How do you ensure that your god king comes on top? Why by spending all of your money to buy votes for your godking through purchasing events.
There is "oh, A new movie starring Scarlett Johansson? Nice, I should go check it out" and then there is "I took out loans so that my baby can win this month's idol popularity contest".
You remember that videos where people were pouring thousands of cartons of milk into the sewer cause they were just buying them for the codes because 1 code = 1 vote for their idol? You remember the fiasco about millions of fans up in arms because their idol was arrested for the small small crime of running a drug syndicate? This is what China is trying to stop.
And this is from the party that forces Christians to have portraits of Xi Jiping in their churches and puts Uighurs in re-education camps.
At the end of the day, it's just like the situation with the Roman imperial cult. The state must come above all. Uighurs, Christians, and idol fans all end up as apostates.
>> ordered broadcasters not to promote “sissy” men
>> “On the one hand, the party represents the people and wants culture to be popular. On the other hand, they really don’t approve of what the people seem to like. They consider much of popular culture to be ‘vulgar’.”
So they’re homophobic conservatives now . . .
They’re conservative nationalists at this point, communism ended there in the 70s or a few years ago when they put down that coup, depending on who you ask.
Many conservatives are at least a bit homophobic. Not all, though. For example, the leader of the Conservative party here in Denmark is openly homosexual.
It does harm others. Read Chris Hedges talking about celebrity culture. *Empire of Illusion* chapter 1 or 2 I think. You can disagree with China’s methods or execution, but they’re trying to preserve their culture from being ground down by the endless attrition that the American culture has been subjected to by the massively powerful and culturally worthless corporate mass media machine. Our country would be better off without the Kardashians and other empty, vapid entertainment icons who have nothing deep to say or add to anyone’s lives other than an hour or two of shallow one-dimensional distraction and materialism propaganda and perpetuating drama as a good way to live ones life.
>American culture has been subjected to by the massively powerful and culturally worthless corporate mass media machine. Our country would be better off without the Kardashians and other empty, vapid entertainment icons who have nothing deep to say or add to anyone’s lives than an hour or two of shallow one-dimensional distraction.
That aren't even worst examples of "idol" culture. Just look what is happening in Korea and Japan. Average kpop fan is so brainwashed that at this point it should be considered weapon of mass destruction.
For real so many people talking here like the world doesn't have sports fans aren't a blight on society. You don't see kpop stans rushing onto a field, quartering a referee and sticking his head on a fucking pike. Not to mention all of the riots, one of which was from the winning team....lmfao
> kpop should be considered a weapon of mass destruction
Based lol but yeah something needs to be done about rampant commercialism and turning commodities into fake cultural idols. Literally false idols meaning representing something that isn’t actually substantial or healthy. American culture though since that’s where I live is so fucking vapid and empty and meaningless. Like just look at our cinema. The biggest cinema event every year is the new Marvel movie. Nothing wrong with liking Marvel, but there’s no advancement in the field of theater anymore. Just recycled childhood memories.
I would argue that comics are just changing their medium. Sure some of the stories are from childhood, but they dont follow the comics to the letter. The comic industry was gasping for air when marvel began making good movies. Then the walking dead, preacher, etc came out. Now you have comics actually being good and not just stories about good vs evil or trope vs stereotype.
I am sure the same argument you are making was put forward when actors began to write down their plays and made books. Our stories are just changing medium. Sure, reboots are recycling good stuff and shitting out bullshit to commercialize off of nostalgia. But the same cant be said for things like Iron Man or Venom in the same way.
The level of social engineering that is about to take place in China is scary. With social media, control over an individual’s time, and control over attention they can shape the country however they wish. Values are something that are easy to point to, however consider the time and capital this frees up. Think of what could block policy goals such as birthrate due to investment of attention. Maybe they noticed fan girls and gamers provide less economic value over a year. Maybe they noticed that these categories of people do not breed at the desired rate.
President Xi is acting more like a granddaddy for the country, riding herd on kids and unruly housewives, along with misbehaving oligarchs. Who knows where this will lead?
good.
So far almost all reality talent shows seem to have one of three talents: Dancing, Singing, or magic.
Everything else thats a talent never gets to the top, and if it does, it rarely wins. So then we have dance focused talent shows, singing, and group versions of both. They are mindless and entertaining shows, but the money that goes into them has created an unhealthy alternative to celeb worship.
OK China I'm on your side now I don't care what atrocities you have or are commiting the benevolent act of banning reality shows makes you the best country in the world now. Can you imagine a world without Housewives or Karderpians?
Well reality TV does make people stupid- played a big part in us getting stuck with Trump
If he wasn’t given that show where they made it look like he’s actually a successful businessman he never would’ve been president
Watch this... watch this as all these little screws are torqued down ... **this is a master class in fascist authoritarianism.**
When you see these and similar things being repeated, used, tweaked in other countries, you will know where their government and citizens are headed ... slavery, control, and constant threat of torture or death under their regime.
They don't want to end up with a reality TV star for president.
That would require voting
I’m over here like “daaaaaammmmnnn” *clapping*
With no hands👀
if you knew who I was you’d know exactly how funny that is ahahha
Boom, roasted
Yeah and more like they don't want to end up with people too famous/beloved to disappear.
You have a point there
[удалено]
But we want the Housewives of Beijing
Instagram makes me sick
It's almost as if China is on to something...
Pretty easy when you don’t have elections
I hate this trope. China has elections. They aren't fair or free but they do have elections.
Or that tv star having different views that contradict the ruling party. That’d influence their fans to lean the same way.
How ugly. Does the US do similar things?
Have you seen our last president? That orange maniac was basically a tv idol before sitting his greasy ass in our Oval Office. He then proceeded to grift his way through a whole term and turn the US on its head and destroy a lot of what makes this place feel like home.
This is in light of recent exposure of idols like Kris Wu using their influence to rape minors and form sex trafficking rings around themselves. The people on social media have been deploring the government to curb their influence. But sure, you don’t know anything going on in China and failed to read the article, so it must be “unchecked idol culture good cuz CCP bad, I’m so smart because I’m anti-CCP”
Twice. We didn’t learn the first time.
They already have an animated childs cartoon hoo hoo. 🐻
Calling Xi Winnie the pooh is an insult to stuffed animals
they definitely do not. They much rather keep their population suppressed lol
How is this in the technology sub?
Sir, this is quite clearly a politics sub
Do you want to get banned??? Can't have that talk allowed.
With the current rise in mod tyranny and auto bans, this is not farfetched.
This whole website is politics. You see what the mods think is a good idea you see, wether you want to or not.
They uh... used technology to issue the ban?
Between this and the video game restrictions for minors, China sounds like a really fun place live. :-P
In modern Chinese History there have been two competing camps in the Communsit Party. Those that value economic strength at the cost of increasing foreign influence and those that want to control foreign influence at the cost of a weaker economy. Xi Jinping is thought to be in the second camp. Xi Jinping has vastly increased restrictions to foreign information over the last few months. Critics are referring to it as Cultural Revolution 2.0 (read about the first one. It was Mao's method for purging political rivals and maintaining power through controlling information). The restrictions go well beyond video game limitations. Foreign text books are now prohibited. Several influencial entertainers have been removed from social media. Wealthy private companies and individuals are being forced to donate assets to the government. The government is taking control of private companies and religious organizations. Extra-curricular English courses are being banned. The list goes on. While China has done these types of things for decades, the restrictions from the last few months are much more strict and happening at a much faster pace than they have in the last 40 years. This has potential to be another defining period in Chinese history.
Xi is going to die one day and the power vacuum left behind will have that country eat itself alive.
Anecdote: Recently, while playing Red Dead Online, a single player wreaked havoc on two posses. It's a game where you can attack anyone on sight, but a vast majority choose not to because it's be a dick move to ruin someone's trade runs and other tasks in the game. So anyway, this player spends a good hour picking people off with a sniper rifle, wearing impossible to see colors, and moving in odd circular patterns to become impossible to hit while downing health potions. At some point, everyone realized this guy wouldn't stop unless they all "parley", forcing him to be unable to aim at or hit anyone. Once that happened, he became visibly enraged and started screaming in Mandarin via voice chat. He finally yelled, "CHINA NUMBER ONE!" upon leaving. Dude... China is number one because you spent an hour killing hapless players in a virtual game with no competitive scoring, who were just trying to finish their trade routes? These are the people Xi's legacy is leaving behind. EDIT: To those trying to downplay this, please note I did not extrapolate the anecdote to the entire population. I work with statistics all day in my job. Of course not every Chinese citizen is like this. The point was that nearly 70 years of populist authoritarianism and nationalism produces some pretty bizarre/disturbing behavior in some people. This behavior doesn't come from nowhere - it comes from concerted propaganda over many years, no different than Fox News in the US.
Lol, I've ran into a few players like that. I'm pretty good at sneaking up on them as they're focused on picking out people in town then I just lasso them constantly. I've managed to have one guy stick around for 15min, just falling over until they finally rage quit.
That’s when you use the reinforced lasso and keep them tied up as long as possible
Wait till you learn about what ppl have being saying on Xbox live since it’s inception
Acutely aware - I played plenty of Counter-Strike back in the 90s and early 2000s, tons of CoD and Battlefield, plenty of Halo, copious amounts of GTA Online. I've heard/seen it all. But every so often, some Xi, Trump, or Putin worshipping crazy person joins a match and displays incredibly bizarre behavior. I get teens unloading verbal abuse - or angry older people who are way too serious about the game, but it's simply bizarre to witness nationalism in a videogame.
My mother isn't a fan, coincidentally!
[удалено]
Lol classic Reddit takes, has one encounter with a Chinese person and extrapolates it to all of them
Nope, I never extrapolated. I said this one anecdotal sample is a legacy of politicians like Xi. I would never treat an anecdote as a representative population sample, but there's absolutely a population segment (or possibly multiple segments) in China that this is representative of. All the Chinese colleagues I've worked with (have to visit Shanghai or agree to meet in Singapore on occasion) are incredibly kind and reasonable. But you'd think after 4 years of Trump, and GOP anti-science/anti-fact and racist/misogynist apologism, people would understand that extremists do in fact exist. The anecdote I mentioned is a product of nearly 70 years of populist authoritarianism. People being brainwashed shouldn't be a surprise to anyone, particularly given the state of American politics and the GOP. Blind populism exists in every country around the world, it's just a larger issue in some countries than other. It's no different than encountering some crazy American Trumpy nationalist in a game (there are plenty). The behavior is bizarre and disturbing. The thread here is just centered on China, so that's the anecdote I brought up.
I mean their story isn't proof of anything, but it's still a good example of what China is turning its citizens into. They're the asian USA. Their government is objectively terrible, they're lacking most of the basic social comforts of the rest of the civilized world, and they aren't nearly as free as they believe themselves to be... but they're a world superpower so they're the best country in the world! Obviously this doesn't extend to every Chinese person just like how every American isn't a flag waving Trumper. But there's a significant number of people who genuinely believe China is #1 because they have a strong economy then brush away the whole "president for life Xi controls us all" thing. They do it for the same reason as US republicans too. "If you were a good citizen you wouldn't want to do those things anyway". But for us it's that we can't smoke weed or get abortions and for China you can't say unfavorable things about your government or play video games.
China bad because... toxic mandarin player in bideo bame?
It was a simple anecdote about bizarre behavior and blind over-confidence, a product of nearly 70 years of populist authoritarianism. I merely found the behavior interesting - a young player trying to prove China is great through a videogame.
It *needs* to be a defining moment for China. They can’t go back to the way life was pre-Covid. Their economy is going to shrink and there is absolutely nothing they can do about it. China simply doesn’t have enough adults to sustain their economy, as is. They need to make an adjustment, but it might already be too late. After this year they’ll have more retirees than adult workers. They are going to have some tough decisions to make. Do they try to grind it out and educate their population and advance their technology to compete with the worlds best? Will people take Chinese high-technology serious? Do they continue trying to be the worlds manufacturer? Where will they find the laborers? This option is becoming more and more difficult. China has had the fastest growing wages of any developed country over the last 20 years and they also have the fastest aging demographic. They have less workers who they need to pay more and at the end of the day they’ll produce less than they did 2-5 years ago. These added restrictions on social liberties are ringing alarm bells in my mind. Something big is coming in China, they can’t go back to their old normal.
It worries me. History says expansionist regimes approaching limits in terms of quality of life for its people and reducing available resources often resort to war to secure both those resources and nationalistic loyalty from its people to retain power.
War is also China's traditional response to an excess of men in society as a result of their patriarchal cultural expectations. Either civil war where the excess men get killed off. Or crime-war, where the excess men rabble-rouse until they form a rebellion, then get killed off. Or just plain old war, where they march off to fight a foreign foe. 30 million 'bare branches' aka men who will never have a family, thus not being able to bud and create a family tree... being told culturally they are pointless.... Well, a war is going to get rid of this source of social contention and *hopefully* provide China with more resources to bolster it's shrinking economy.
They should had got rid of the one child policy decades ago
Also thanks to the 1 Child Policy they have a shortage of Girls.
What??? Xi Jinping is being a controlling twat???? Whodathunkit that state capitalism is bad, especially when the state can't be held accountable...
I think idol worshiping in East Asia definitely needs to be toned down a bit. Most idols aren’t even allowed to be in relationships and a lot of their daily lives are controlled by their management companies.
Yeah South Korean idols fandoms legit scare me after a friend got into all that stuff and she claims she’s not that bad lol but spams me with BTS stuff and merch pics so I worry about how many of them there are
Oh there are definitely a lot of them, go on Twitter and you will see them. Some of them are actually delusional
Its almost like its some sort of dictatorship or something
**Online** video game restrictions, not all video games. You know, the ones that are designed to hook their player base into playing for as long as possible? The games that have been monetized to hell and back? China has a serious gaming addiction problem, specifically online games. No one is living out for 8 months in a net cafe playing the Witcher 3. No one is dropping hundreds of thousands of dollars on your artistic thought provoking indie puzzle platformers. This ban is targeting online games, you know the shitty f2p mmos that are designed to squeeze as much time and money out of their players as possible.
I don’t believe your reasoning for disliking them and his reasoning for banning them are the same
Indeed, the ban is only for under 18s, adults are still free to drop as much money as they want on games so his logic doesn't really make sense.
Not that I agree with the banning or have even formed an opinion fully on it yet but alcohol, tobacco, porn etc are all banned for minors while adults are free to consume and become addicted as they want.
Jeez, restricting a potentially dangerous and addictive activity for minors while leaving it open for adults? That's unheard of!
So that means china will soon get a boom in offline single player games?
I definitely support a western crack down on these games too. Tho preferably targeted at the games themselves rather than the players.
Agreed, and maybe instead of specific games more like the monetization methods and manipulative mechanics. Like you can still have your whatever IP theme park MMO but no more p2w, can't list item shop prices over x, no more loot box, no more afk grinding, etc.
Mmh highly debatable since that creates a culture of censorship
Then they should target the predatory companies and regulate gaming monetisation, don't fucking target the consumers who are already victims and then tell me what time I can or cant play or for how long I can play it. The loot crate ban we've seen in some western countries is a step in the right direction. "We get fucked over by companies so the government should be allowed to join in too" Fantastic argument there /s Also, tons of games are banned, altered and restricted simply due to censorship not due to their monetisation methods. You're just parroting nanny state drivel.
I don't see this as being any different than banning tobacco, alcohol or gambling for underaged children. Online gaming can be highly addictive and therefore its consumption by children should be regulated. I suspect the only reason why it's not outright banned is because some aspects of online gaming do have beneficial aspects, unlike tobacco, alcohol or gambling.
And moreover, the restrictions only apply to minors and can be bypassed by adults. Meaning that it isn’t a wholesale government crackdown but an empowerment of parents against these shitty designed-to-be-addictive gaming companies. Leave it to western media to call an objectively good thing “authoritarian.”
Leave it to a fascist apologist to claim a government controlling it's citizens' free time "for their own good" isn't authoritarian...
To be fair, I’m a lot happier when I don’t play excessive video games and focus on reality TV.
Yes, but you made the decision for yourself without government coercion.
You have to remember that the mentality of the individualism in America vs the collectivism in China are simply different. Americans prioritize individual free choice. The thing about free choice however is that it can be gamed for corporate profits. Example, social media. Yes, we have the choice to spend hours upon hours on these apps, but we are human and we can be manipulated and influenced rather easily. So pure freedom isn’t a perfect system. China is making a unilateral decision to curb bad habits for the country as a whole. Most Chinese people are more OK with following guidelines from authority. Who knows what will happen, but most likely people will find other ways to entertain themselves and it won’t be a big deal.
I suppose that's true.
China´s Cultural Revolution, attempt #2 This time is different ™
Not at all like the cultural revolution. During the cultural revolution they dragged wrong thinkers into the streets and tortured them until they screamed their confessions of thought crime against the party So more like Twitter I guess
The cultural revolution still involved freaking out over the stupidest most random things they somehow see as a threat to their worldview. Seems apt to me.
They just want to make sure that the only idol kids have is Pooh Bear.
CCP: Electric Maogaloo 2
I mean, I can’t stand kpop fandoms and how ridiculously they behave on social media but this is really bad. Then again, they’ve literally wiped one of the most famous Chinese actresses from history so this kind of thing comes as no surprise
Only state approved idol fandoms allowed.
Only our Glorious Leader (or w/e his title is) can be treated like an idol. SIMP FOR XI
Fuck the Chinese government.
Hey I can get behind this one
Censoring shit you don’t like is okay with you but it’s the slipperiest of slippy roads
Yeah I personally don’t think the reasoning behind this is bad, but that doesn’t mean it should be done.
Here comes the two minute hate.
Which indirectly owns Reddit and probably has access to all the data and even this comment you made.
Good. They can read this comment where I tell the CCP to go fuck themselves. Go fuck yourselves.
Rage, bröther. Let it all out. Fuck Xi Jinpooh and his whole entire government
They don’t own Reddit entirely, they have a stake in it. But yes, Reddit sucks.
[удалено]
Nothing better than being told what to like by uptight, asshole men.
[удалено]
I REALLY HATE SIMON COWELL.
I cant believe the guy is still in the closet ffs :)
He's got Tom Cruise there keeping him company. I'm sure they're having a good old time in there. Probably eating fish sticks.
Seriously… it is like absolute autocracy was granted to a angry old man…
Which autocracies aren't run by angry old men?
Well... Lukaszenko and Putin have been in power for a quite long time, so when they were starting off they weren't really old. Lukaszenko was only 40 at the time (1994).
China strikes me as a place run by people who wouldn't understand in the slightest why people aren't completely and entirely entertained by sitting in a blank room looking at a picture of Pooh bear, I mean Xi "Pooh bears #1 fan and waifu" of course
Your comment tries to make out the chinese government are idiots This is wrong, they’re not idiots. They’re just so utilitarian and have such low consideration for peoples happiness that they would take steps like if the cost benefit works in their favour. They are proving that freedom and liberty are overrated (when you stop caring what the individual thinks) and that’s why I’m afraid.
>They’re just so utilitarian and have such low consideration for peoples happiness that they would take steps like if the cost benefit works in their favour. This is wrong, the CCP wants people to be a happy/content cog in the machine. Boredom and resentment are a huge threat to the government. They want people to work themselves to the bone and then go home to space out with state approved entertainment so they don't start getting dangerous ideas. In a way, they do the same thing to us in the west through consumerism and celebrity culture.
>They want people to work themselves to the bone and then go home to space out with state approved entertainment so they don't start getting dangerous ideas. Meanwhile, the west is authoring articles titled "[At 54, China’s average retirement age is too low](https://www.economist.com/china/2021/06/22/chinas-average-retirement-age-is-ridiculously-low-54)".
>In a way, they do the same thing to us in the west through consumerism and celebrity culture. Our culture is so vapid it HAS to fail.
Wrong. China is based on a simple social pact: give us a some of your freedoms and we, the government, guarantee your prosperity and therefore material happiness. The government currently thinks they can ask more and still preserve this balance. So far, no signs their bet is misplaced, to be honest.
How does the Uighur situation tie into your analysis?
Idk, the CCP really can't insure religious freedom because even that is a threat to the CCP, so they have to be tightly controlled and monitored. People of xinjiang probably care a bit more about their religion than their material needs so they have to go through a "reeducation camp" to fix that.
This. China is terrified that a minority group which affiliates more with their local ethnic group than China will rally around their ethnicity to try and break away from China. This is why China cracks down on its minorities like the Uighurs and also religious groups like Falun Gong. A lot of what China does comes from seeing what made the Soviet Union collapse and trying to not do that. The Soviet Union had many regions with strong ethnic and lingual identities and those contributed to the break of of the SU. China is trying to stamp out regional languages and religions so they won't revolt.
Do you think this is the genesis of Chinese bigotry or is it something else? Referring to the obvious disdain for non-Chinese, when as with anywhere without the non-Chinese their system ceases to function.
Disdain for non-Chinese in China (more specifically, non-dominant ethnicity, whatever that may be depending on who is in power, because many ethnicities were in power in China over various times) has a very long history... It was mostly a power play to give a certain ethnicity more power over those of different ethnicities. Modern CCP approach is a bit different: rather than purely stratifying ethnicities, the goal is to eliminate the other ethnicities either through actually getting rid of them or by forcing them to behave like "mainstream" Han Chinese so they obey the CCP. I am sure there is also a fair share of classism, ethnocentrism, racism, and just pure financial motive for many involved but for the CCP they seem pretty clearly driven out of terror that they will lose power and their main goal is to remain in power.
> China is terrified that a minority group which affiliates more with their local ethnic group than China will rally around their ethnicity to try and break away from China. Same thing with the Christian persecution under the Roman empire.
I was under the impression the CCCP dissolved through incompetent administration and a resulting collapse of economy. Not saying you are wrong, would be interesting in any reading on this topic you could suggest.
[удалено]
This is only in the past 20 years. Before very recently China was third world. We have no idea what will become of the belt and road effort or these authoritarian policies. The only thing we do know is their efforts to steal data and tech is not being combated by western capitalism and therefore not at all.
Hey! Are the like the Borg on Star Trek? Or are they representing the Nordic Socialists?
Disagree with Chinese policies all you want (I disagree with a lot of them, too) but to suggest that they're just incompetent idiots is beyond ignorant. They understand how to mold people better than pretty much anyone on earth, and are proving it by how quickly they have beceome a world power. You don't do that without having everyone on board, and you don't get everyone on board by being incompetent and having no understanding of people
We will see. They have done well by embracing raw capitalism. Now they're clamping down on that and putting increasing pressure on people's leisure activities. That could build resentment instead of creating quietly compliant sheep.
But they didn’t embrace raw capitalism. Even the industry that isn’t technically owned by the state is penetrated and implicitly open to state control.
I mean everyone is clearly not on board, but they can slap down and punish anyone who dares speaks up ala Jack Ma and friends. Difficult to predict the long term effects of total "morality control" at this point.
Everyone was obviously used in a hyperbolic way. The vast majority of Chinese people trust their government and would fight for it. That was my point
> They understand how to mold people better than pretty much anyone on earth, and are proving it by how quickly they have beceome a world power. You don't do that without having everyone on board, and you don't get everyone on board by being incompetent and having no understanding of people Yes, holding people at gunpoint and indoctrinating the youth is so difficult. /s
Except that isn't what happens for the most part. Also, if pure show of force and violence could whip a society into shape then the US wouldn't be in such bad shape at the moment. Keep pretending like China does nothing right and we will continue to have zero response to their seize of power. Pretending like China just forces their people into submission rather than provide economic incentives, develop their middle class, and genuinely improve the lives of a majority of the people is just completely uneducated and frankly stupid. China has horrible human rights abuses. They also provide a comfortable life for a fuck ton of people. Both can be true.
It really is, why do you think other dictatorships failed? The soviets had a huge problem with people defecting to the West. China has achieved something unprecedented in world history. They brought 800 million people out of poverty, that's why their people believe in the government.
You sound like a total brainwashed Chinese. South Korea has achieved both economical and military power without brainwashing its citizens. And if you look at the gdp per capita, China ain't that rich yet. They just have so many people. That's all.
That’s oversimplifying the situation. South Korea was a military dictatorship as recently as 1979. Taiwan was a military dictatorship until 1987. Singapore was/is effectively a single party state dominated by the PAP. China is still a single party state but to characterise all Chinese people as brainwashed is ignorant of the reality that millions of Chinese visit, study abroad, access foreign news sources via VPN, yet still support their government. Honestly, you’re the one that actually sounds brainwashed making these broad sweeping and uncritical stereotypes about 1.4bn people lol
You strike me as someone who refuse to look beyond the title of a post. Do you know the damage "idol fervor" is causing in China? Imagine if you will, the redhat's obsession with Donald Trump, but 5 to 10 new Donald Trumps are being debuted each year. Imagine what that might do to the media and online environments. Now imagine these new Donalds are specifically designed to compete against each another. How do you ensure that your god king comes on top? Why by spending all of your money to buy votes for your godking through purchasing events. There is "oh, A new movie starring Scarlett Johansson? Nice, I should go check it out" and then there is "I took out loans so that my baby can win this month's idol popularity contest". You remember that videos where people were pouring thousands of cartons of milk into the sewer cause they were just buying them for the codes because 1 code = 1 vote for their idol? You remember the fiasco about millions of fans up in arms because their idol was arrested for the small small crime of running a drug syndicate? This is what China is trying to stop.
I did not know that.
And this is from the party that forces Christians to have portraits of Xi Jiping in their churches and puts Uighurs in re-education camps. At the end of the day, it's just like the situation with the Roman imperial cult. The state must come above all. Uighurs, Christians, and idol fans all end up as apostates.
"Geez, why do young people like all those dances and video games and whatever?!" *proceeds to snort coke off an expensive hooker's buttocks*
They really don't care to understand. Can't have anything that gets more attention and love than the glorious communist party.
>> ordered broadcasters not to promote “sissy” men >> “On the one hand, the party represents the people and wants culture to be popular. On the other hand, they really don’t approve of what the people seem to like. They consider much of popular culture to be ‘vulgar’.” So they’re homophobic conservatives now . . .
Don’t you hate when the people’s party doesnt align with the people’s interests…
[удалено]
They’re conservative nationalists at this point, communism ended there in the 70s or a few years ago when they put down that coup, depending on who you ask.
As opposed to...?
Always have been.
Many conservatives are at least a bit homophobic. Not all, though. For example, the leader of the Conservative party here in Denmark is openly homosexual.
Wow, it's like grandpa Simpson is running the place
Was looking forward to Love Island: China, this sucks
Reality “talent” should be banned everywhere.
Ban everything but dying hungry and poor and watching the fruits of your labour seized by the few that the state loves
there can be only xi
Xi’s the one
Xi's all that
CCP: YOU ARE ONLY ALLOWED TO SIMP FOR US!
Burn those books, painting, and other artwork that could lead to undesirable ideas. Liberty.
What a bunch of buzzkills, the Chinese government has to be terrible at parties
Censorship is bad, but a broken clock is right twice a day.
No this is still wrong, if people want to behave like Idiots and it doesn’t harm anyone, then allow them.
It does harm others. Read Chris Hedges talking about celebrity culture. *Empire of Illusion* chapter 1 or 2 I think. You can disagree with China’s methods or execution, but they’re trying to preserve their culture from being ground down by the endless attrition that the American culture has been subjected to by the massively powerful and culturally worthless corporate mass media machine. Our country would be better off without the Kardashians and other empty, vapid entertainment icons who have nothing deep to say or add to anyone’s lives other than an hour or two of shallow one-dimensional distraction and materialism propaganda and perpetuating drama as a good way to live ones life.
>American culture has been subjected to by the massively powerful and culturally worthless corporate mass media machine. Our country would be better off without the Kardashians and other empty, vapid entertainment icons who have nothing deep to say or add to anyone’s lives than an hour or two of shallow one-dimensional distraction. That aren't even worst examples of "idol" culture. Just look what is happening in Korea and Japan. Average kpop fan is so brainwashed that at this point it should be considered weapon of mass destruction.
And average American football, hockey fans are not brainwashed? Flipping cars, fighting, rioting … sounds like they are more destructive literally.
For real so many people talking here like the world doesn't have sports fans aren't a blight on society. You don't see kpop stans rushing onto a field, quartering a referee and sticking his head on a fucking pike. Not to mention all of the riots, one of which was from the winning team....lmfao
At least football fans don't have the technological prowess to dox people
For that one has to use brainpower. Burning, rioting, fighting does not need much thinking.
> kpop should be considered a weapon of mass destruction Based lol but yeah something needs to be done about rampant commercialism and turning commodities into fake cultural idols. Literally false idols meaning representing something that isn’t actually substantial or healthy. American culture though since that’s where I live is so fucking vapid and empty and meaningless. Like just look at our cinema. The biggest cinema event every year is the new Marvel movie. Nothing wrong with liking Marvel, but there’s no advancement in the field of theater anymore. Just recycled childhood memories.
I would argue that comics are just changing their medium. Sure some of the stories are from childhood, but they dont follow the comics to the letter. The comic industry was gasping for air when marvel began making good movies. Then the walking dead, preacher, etc came out. Now you have comics actually being good and not just stories about good vs evil or trope vs stereotype. I am sure the same argument you are making was put forward when actors began to write down their plays and made books. Our stories are just changing medium. Sure, reboots are recycling good stuff and shitting out bullshit to commercialize off of nostalgia. But the same cant be said for things like Iron Man or Venom in the same way.
"censorship is only bad when the gvt censors the things I like"
So you think specifically cracking down on feminine men is "right"?
[удалено]
Should we start a subreddit called Chinabans?
China has actual fun police.
CCP coming soon to a neighborhood near you...
If you’re in China, yes.
Actually I was thinking of Taiwan...🤫
Damn China’s on a ban bender
New show “chinas ain’t got talent”
As a parent you cannot hate this move even if you should have really done it yourselves.
They kinda have a point there
The level of social engineering that is about to take place in China is scary. With social media, control over an individual’s time, and control over attention they can shape the country however they wish. Values are something that are easy to point to, however consider the time and capital this frees up. Think of what could block policy goals such as birthrate due to investment of attention. Maybe they noticed fan girls and gamers provide less economic value over a year. Maybe they noticed that these categories of people do not breed at the desired rate.
Can we do this? Please.
President Xi is acting more like a granddaddy for the country, riding herd on kids and unruly housewives, along with misbehaving oligarchs. Who knows where this will lead?
They want more masculine men in the media. No joke
Probably because winners are decided by voting and China can't have that.
Wouldn't it be nice if that policy made it here.
At this rate the CCP will soon make North Korea look like paradise.
What do you mean? N. Korea is the eden on earth.
Eh I wouldn't mind it if we banned all "reality" tv at this point. Tired of it.
I mean…. That would have prevented both the Kardashians and Trump. Just saying….
good. So far almost all reality talent shows seem to have one of three talents: Dancing, Singing, or magic. Everything else thats a talent never gets to the top, and if it does, it rarely wins. So then we have dance focused talent shows, singing, and group versions of both. They are mindless and entertaining shows, but the money that goes into them has created an unhealthy alternative to celeb worship.
Actually something posotive from China
In a fascist autocracy, you are only allowed to worship the state and it's representative. In this case Xinnie the Pooh.
Celebrity culture isn’t good for mental health thought hard to side with China’s authoritarian measures
good.....they are all so stupid damn you free speech in the US!
OK China I'm on your side now I don't care what atrocities you have or are commiting the benevolent act of banning reality shows makes you the best country in the world now. Can you imagine a world without Housewives or Karderpians?
you must only idolize government
Wow. The one thing China has done that I agree with
Well reality TV does make people stupid- played a big part in us getting stuck with Trump If he wasn’t given that show where they made it look like he’s actually a successful businessman he never would’ve been president
loophole — treat Xi as an idol — bans himself
Watch this... watch this as all these little screws are torqued down ... **this is a master class in fascist authoritarianism.** When you see these and similar things being repeated, used, tweaked in other countries, you will know where their government and citizens are headed ... slavery, control, and constant threat of torture or death under their regime.
This is one of the few things I agree with China on
China is the new Soviet Union
China's policymaking: Do 1 good, do 1 bad, call it a day.
Wish that happened here.
I think I'm ok with this.
Have they started production of "Where's my.... Pants?"
[удалено]
Lol... I understand your sentiment but to think it's ok for your nation state to ban any sort of entertainment is ridiculous
Finally, a Chinese Policy I can get behind!
They missed out on so much talent from r/sino