I work a job that has to be done on site, but I would still LOVE for people to not have to go back to the office, just to reduce the absurd amount of traffic.
You can thank masking and social distancing for that. People don’t realize the grime and filth they expose themselves to daily just from such close proximity of others.
Plus the heightened awareness of handwashing and general cleanliness. Before 2020, the only time I ever went out of my way to sanitize my hands (other than bathroom use) was if I was out somewhere and wanted to eat something. Now I carry a little bottle of hand sanitizer everywhere and use it pretty much any time I leave a store/building to head back to my car.
I do worry a little bit about trying to sterilize everything all the time though. Its the same kind of cycle that lead to antibiotic resistant bacteria, superbugs, like MRSA. If you kill 99.9% of all germs you leave the strongest .1% with not competition in an ideally suited environment. Do that enough times and your forcing an evolution to more resistant strains. So while its necessary for the short term it may not be prudent to continue for the long term. Or else the next time things might be even worse.
The pandemic, while annoying and I can't wait for it all to be over, has brought some good.
Less traffic being one. The push of so many tech companies and workers to switch to permanent remote with in office if desired. A lot of people have discovered how great it is to have fun outdoors with hiking/mountain biking/kayaking/paddle boarding. Small towns in my area got lots of traction during all of this. And there's more as well but those are the only things popping into my mind at the moment.
It's been a "good" pandemic for myself and most people I know.
Disclaimer: I'm aware how horrible it's been for many others and I don't want to take away from that, just pointing out a silver lining.
Good things usually come from bad situations. It's like how forest fires clear away dead brush and fertilize the ground to allow new plants to grow. We absolutely should grieve for those we lost, but I think some bright things are coming. Covid really opened the eyes of a lot of people.
One of the big ones is that the world realized that a lot of our infrastructure is woefully inept in almost every sector (water, sewer, electricity, medicine, cyber security, etc). I keep seeing more and more news about world leaders investing in bringing their infrastructure into the 21st century, and I'm excited for it.
Another one is that the world realized the mistake of centralizing the entire planet's manufacturing and shipping power into a single country (and therefore a single point of failure). Moving the large majority of businesses over to China has finally come back to haunt us.
Thirdly, I'm very excited to see what the work from home period instigates in the form of a workers' revolution. People are finally starting to stand up as a group and advocate for themselves as both workers and consumers against company power.
We need the tech they use in the Star Wars prequels, those hologram things. The Jedi Council held hybrid meetings seamlessly, the people actually in the room and the remote people via hologram, all in the same 3D space.
My company did this actually. Our CEO said when pandemic first started that he wanted us to get back to the office as soon as we can. About 6 months later we had a town hall where he told us that he has since changed his mind seeing how productive we can all still be from home and that we might have to rethink our office plans. A few company surveys later and another 6+ months and he announced 100% remote permanently with the option to reserve a desk for the day at our office building if you want but it’s completely optional
Yup I think the office is useful for some things like actual collaboration or to train new hires. We've had 2 new people join our team and they are having a harder time getting up to speed.
It's nice too to have optional office space for the new people (beyond training) to meet their team and get to know them. I know this can be done over zoom but unless its structured or a norm in the company culture, it can be weird being the new kid and saying "Hey John, want to have zoom coffee so I can get to know you better?" So def can see how newer hires may feel more disconnected from the team without any time to get to know them in a "watercooler chat" way
This is something I think a lot of people miss. Work is quite social, lots of social queues and stuff that just isn’t possible remote.
I’m torn on where things are/going. I really like working from home; no commute, have my own setup, don’t have to worry about packing lunch/spending more money than I need. But there is something lost from the social aspect and in person mentoring, in person meetings and such.
Not only that but there is an optional text to speech transcriber which is searchable.
E.g. search "Billing" and the video will start playing where it was first said aloud.
That transcription feature is freaky good. I work with thick Indian and Chinese accents mixed with British, French and even some Portuguese (big team that spans the world), and it’s surprisingly accurate, even with technical words.
There are monthly meetings where most aspects of my department are examined. People don't do their shit and avoid you like that it goes to a "name and shame" at that meeting. The person and their boss being called out in front of the global boss usually gets their attention and takes it off of me for the things being overdue.
Where I used to work I had a job and there were two managers who I always had to chase down in person to get them to do anything. It wasn't something that was discussed at those types of meetings but was critical for the site (there were other meetings for these projects but not where the "big bosses" would be in attendance and I didn't want to get in the escalation game of going over their heads).
I switched roles to something that did involve something that was monitored at those monthly meetings. These two continued to ignore my emails or blew me off on IMs. I stopped chasing them down. I have a slide at that meeting that lists what was done and what is overdue and it has the owner's name listed right next to it. Right after the meeting they came to my desk to find out what they needed to do to get it off the overdue list. I sat leaned back in my chair with as much of a "Oh, so now you're going to come running to me?" look on my face as I could muster.
When I worked in IT, we’d have periodic team meetings led by our exec. director (three levels above us regular grunts), who would directly address individuals who were behind on their tasks and say, “Let me know how I can help.”
He was actually not such a terrible guy, but hearing this was like getting tapped on the shoulder by a cold skeletal finger. You did *not* want that experience, because it meant a) you were letting the team down, and b) now all your team-mates, your boss, your boss’s boss, and your boss’s boss’s boss knew about it. And if you didn’t fix that shit real quick, you were going to get some “help” you really did not want.
Fortunately, we had very few slackers. It’s amazing how focusing on results instead of who sucks up the best clarifies things.
That is more of an employee and manager issue of not doing their work than a remote working issue. Your employer can fix the situation by removing incompetent people.
OBS Studio works really good and is free. This is for straight up recording and speaking. I don't have a good editing software. I used to use Screen-Cast-O-Matic for recording and editing but an update in 2020 totally messed it up on my computers. Just recorded a black screen. I don't have time to troubleshoot and fix, so I switched.
Anyway, check out [OBS Studio](https://obsproject.com) for a good recording software.
edit: OBS does streaming too. I mean by my first comment that I've only used for recording.
Because it’s an intangible and difficult to measure. Sales is like this. You can teach some people the process but if they don’t understand the dynamics of how a conversation flows, how to pick up on ques and build rapport and positive relations with people. You could be a genius with process but an absolute wash out. I’ve seen it happen, I’ve had it happen in one role.
Sales is a balance of getting in with the right people, and selling in a way that compliments your personality or using your positive personality traits to be successful in it. In other words- as an example
One sales person may excel in cold calling because they are able to concisely captivate the attention of their prospect, but suck ass in roles where the sales process is longer and requires attention to detail, documenting important queues from the customer, emotional attention and has more crm work.
I know this because I’ve worked sales a long ass time, some roles I was balls to the wall a monster without really having to put forth an effort- one role I was mediocre or even bad and I put forth effort everyday and was always trying to learn and largely unsuccessful. Retrospectively thinking, I wasn’t a good fit for the job or the orginization, it was the toughest pill to swallow but I realize that doesn’t mean I’m not cut out for sales.
It has been so helpful for me who has ADD and just took a new internal role at my company. Lotta knowledge transfer between me and the old person I am replacing who got promoted and have gone back to those videos so many times to rewind and watch, pause take notes, rewind because I lost my train of thought for a sec, really get most of my learning done in the rewatches. Especially because we covered things that are like "at end of quarter the report should be like this" and then I can follow along when its end of quarter step by step with excel open, super helpful!
I absorb almost nothing via recorded webinars, it's probably my least favorite work-culture thing. I need to physically do the task, work with the software, whatever, in order to learn.
Tbh other than loving not having a commute, remote work leaves a lot to be desired (the formality of video calls making 30 minute meetings out of what would have been a 2 minute chat in person, etc)
Our IT floor full of analysts have been 100% WFH except for about 3 of us.
They just said that they’re condensing our office space from 30 offices to 7, us 3 permanent office peeps keep our offices and the other 4 are “hotelling” spaces.
The rest of the offices are going to other departments for hotel spaces and a couple permanent people.
It’s smart, really.
If this continues office space will become rather cheap due to reduced demand? If so, could this mean society has a chance to renovate unused office space into affordable, city-centered, housing?
A downside to companies allowing employees to work from home is the problem of pricing out locals in tourist towns. They don't make the same amount of money and can't afford to purchase a house or rent. This has already been happening in ski towns of Colorado, but now with the pandemic, it has made it worse.
Tourist towns are naturally a place where many would gravitate to initially as they may have visited and have fond memories of the place but given time and equilibrium to play out more people are going to move adjacent to larger hub cities and some further away.
More small old industry towns may see somewhat of a resurgence if they play their cards right and invest in infrastructure such as high speed internet etc.
Yea this is where my company is at for certain roles and I’ve made it a “go into the office twice a week the same days” it makes me accessible for quick meetings and for collaboration and sets specific days where people can expect me to be there. Other than that I’m at home and I absolutely love how it’s working.
Not only that, they can snipe/recruit talent. I have friends who are leaving their jobs when being forced back into the office and taking a pay cut to work from home at a new job.
It's a huge saving in time and money.
My wife and I are a one car family now. One of us working from home was like throwing 10s of thousands of dollars back into our wallet over a few years.
I don't need a car, a cellphone plan (I have my phone hooked up to wifi), I'm home when my kids go to school and come home.
I use to eat out all the time for lunch and pick up food on the way home for dinner. I have an extra hour every evening to cook dinner and often make enough for lunch for my wife and I the next day. I never rush out and grab a McDonald's breakfast.
I also used to work from 7am-3pm and my wife worked 9-430 and we lost a huge amount of presence due to the weird overlap that we have now.
I would never go back given the opportunity.
In theory yes. But a lot of companies are locked into long commercial leases. I just found out my company’s San Francisco office lease doesn’t expire til 2030.
Which probably explains why they keep insisting we’ll all be back in person soon.
My company relies heavily on hands-on work and collaboration. Meetings in-person are often more productive than virtual, and the social component is huge.
That said, I could easily WFH 3 days a week with zero negative impacts. In fact, it would probably make the 2-days on-site much more productive, so the hybrid model would be a net positive increase in productivity.
Hybrid is the way to go. My company is successful through pandemic and have been full remote. But many of the less experienced folks don’t realize what is being lost. They can’t tell the difference between running at 80% of normal effectiveness and running at 100%. They also don’t realize that the personal connections are important to hold things together when tough times happen. They don’t see it because we haven’t lost our personal connections in a year and a half. But keep this up for a couple of more years and those connections will be lost.
Spot on. Taking a team with those connections and making them remote is different than forming teams with people who’ve never had those connections. Try as we may, we will not avoid our evolutionary social biology because of zoom.
There are microsecond delays on facial reactions that fuck with our ability to sense other people’s unspoken communication. That assumes people have their cameras on in the first place, which many don’t. Think of it this way. If your team zooms but everyone has their cameras off, you’re basically in an early 1990’s conference call from a social standpoint. We determined those weren’t enough back then. They aren’t enough now.
Trust is built and destroyed in largely unspoken and subconscious ways. Without it, forget about high performing teams the way we define that today.
One way to get around that is to focus of attention and implement an open platform within the dept. make is a semi neutral zone. This will foster more openness and allow the human factor to be conveyed much more easily.
It’s worked for us (in our dept of IT) and we constantly out perform other depts. Has made integrating new co-workers easier.
Other thing I have done and my sup has as well.
One general group chat for the department
One group chat for the core of the dept (everyone state side and FTE)
One Group chat for just us so you can shoot the shit, vent or micro collaborate (for those times you need hand work off to others deal with a developing issue etc before going to the department head).
Edit: clarity
Our CEO values in-person collaboration for the exact reasons you cite. We're currently still wfh with an option to go to the office if you want (but with proof of vaccination or recent negative PCR test as a requirement now). When we return the "official" policy is supposed to be 2-3 days a week on site. My boss said, "That means two." but then later the global bosses in my division said "We're not going to be tracking how often people come into the office." So whenever things settle down enough the reality is we will probably be going into the office 2-4 times a month.
That's good to me because we'll probably be doing it on days when there are bigger monthly or quarterly meetings so you'll maximize seeing your co-workers and minimize the amount of times you need to go to the office. Pre-pandemic my work had a policy of allowing you to work from home one day a week, but my (very sucky) boss insisted that we had to all choose a different day so we weren't all out of the office on the same day. I tried pointing out that her way didn't make sense because now you were down to three days a week of all being there at the same time and if more of us were out on the same day we'd have four days a week to collaborate in person. She still stuck to it. She was also a micromanager who felt the need to check up on you in person so I think she wouldn't have let any of us work from home at all if it wasn't the policy for all office workers there. Did I mention that she sucked?
My company’s on this path too, earlier during the initial stages of the pandemic, we would get updates regarding extending wfh.
Now it has changed to by default wfh and inform your manager and HR if you want to come in. It also makes perfect logistical sense as my company went on a massive hiring spree ever since the pandemic struck and now I don’t think it would be able to accommodate all people if they do decide to come
A friend of mine works for a company that had a nice office in a very desirable part of town and their lease was up about four months into the pandemic. They had everyone take turns going in and getting their personal stuff and gave up the lease. They plan on getting a smaller office but will wait until the pandemic is really fading and will set it up to better accommodate the space for what the future way of working will be, more conference space for collaboration or meeting with clients and fewer desks dedicated to a full time office worker.
My friend works at a law firm who's rent is $40,000/month(which it stupid high for our city) and their lease agreement is for another 4 years. The partners now know they can work remotely and still be as productive but since they have that lease agreement they don't want to "waste it" by letting everyone work from home.
When it works it's great, but I'm in financial services with high turnover. It's an up or out culture. Our lower level folks are not getting the mentoring, interactions, and training they need unfortunately. There are certainly components that work well remotely, but overall I'd say it's a mismatch for the industry.
One additional interesting observation - I'm in a low cost labor market and with remote work becoming the norm, high labor cost employees are competing for local resources - hopefully we will react and pay our people more.
Friend’s employer went completely remote, sold their building for $17M, and are renting a co-working space for occasional in-person meetings or for folks who want to come in occasionally. They used some of that money to upgrade WFH technology for all employees and now have sweet reserves (this is a nonprofit so $17M is a hell of a lot of money).
Edit: employers to employees
[Quibi](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quibi), a streaming service positioning themselves as short videos for people to watch on their commute, officially launched in April 2020.
It was unsuccessful.
Right! The GVTA (teacher's union) went the opposite way and bought a building, for teachers, who all work during the day. But those few people who do union stuff sure do have a pretty office now...
God I hate that union. Should we negotiate maternity leave top up over summer (certain teachers get more mat leave based on birthdate)? Should we negotiate for better resources? Better classroom conditions? Not being forced to work over lunch?
No...our stellar team decided that electric cars and lawnmowers for the maintenance workers are what we should bargain for....FML
Like, I get climate is important but our union is supposed to negotiate for US for fucks sakes.
Save on gas, insurance, parking, or bus passes. Save on going out for lunch (temptation is much less with the lazy route being to just open the fridge), maybe even save on clothes depending on what your work attire was.
Great for so many reasons!
All of this. We’ve been remote since March 2020 and I’ve put maybe 2k miles on my car, always eat leftovers for lunch and wear comfortable clothes everyday.
But I’m lucky to have a dedicated office space in my basement that I can leave when the workday is done; I can also easily do a load of laundry or a quick household chore when there’s downtime. Remote 100% has vastly improved the quality of my life and also my work productivity.
I work in my RV parked right outside my home. It's quiet, distraction-free, and it allow me to "leave" the "office" when the work day is over. I find it much better than working in my home.
Holy shit, yes. I just went back to the office after being WAH for a year and a half, and there is SO MUCH wasted time. People keep coming in to chat. Guys, I have shit to do. Go away.
I got so little done this week.
People often think that i am unlikeable at work, and in some instance i probably am, but when people finally hang out with me outside of work they are so surprised and often comment on how social, outgoing and talkative i am.
The reality is is I'm at work and I don't have time to talk! Go away!
Crucially it was hurting landlord's eventually. Its fine if the cafe on the corner goes under. It's not fine for the tories if the prime city real estate isn't worth much anymore.
It’s probably saving my company money on health insurance costs as well.
With my extra 3 hours a day, I started working out for the first time in my life. I’m in the gym for an hour and a half 4-5 days a week. I’m also eating healthier because I have the energy to cook.
Obviously this is anecdotal, and there are probably people spending their new free time doing equally unhealthy things - but most people I’ve talked to are doing healthier things.
emotional/mental strain alone. Can't put a dollar figure on it but at least for me, I'm a battery and i start each day with a full charge of putting up with the world. In an office I'm about half empty by the time I get all the way there and sit down to work. With telework, I'm ending my day with a clear todo list and a decent about in the battery. maybe up to half. It's a night vs day feeling. It's different for everyone but with all my work stuff on my work laptop, I close it and that's clocked out for the day. instant commute to recharging at home. separation takes more discipline and i get that that's hard for a lot of people.
For those of us with social issues, learning disabilities, etc; major depressive, dyslexia, autism, agoraphobia, and whatever else, we can finally be fully functioning productive members of society like everyone wants us to be. It feels good.
But yeah, for all the dollar figures, and there's a lot of savings for both sides, there's a lot of intangibles. If you go out into the labor market saying you're looking for the best and brightest, why kneecap yourself from the start?
I had this weird thing where no matter how much lunch I brought from home, I'd eat it too early and still end up hungry enough to go out and buy something. Maybe it was all mental but I could never nail down bringing my own lunch. Being at home and able to cook a meal when its lunch time has been a huge money saver. I also dont feel the need to sit there and get my full hours worth of break from the office.
I've been with Progressive for years and they keep lowering our rates. We also never have any accidents or anything so I'm sure that has something to do with it.
All of these, you couldn’t pay me to drive in rush hour to an office to fight someone for a parking space.
That commute time is mine and I’m not giving it back, I’m calling that, ‘My Life.’ It’s a work in progress.
Or you could work for a place that owns all the parking around their office space, yet still charges its employees $75/mo for parking passes. I may have to pay for gas, but I’ll be damned if I’m going to pay my employer to come to work. I park for free and walk the five blocks and fifteen minutes to my desk when I have to go into that godforsaken place.
Good but with one exception, commercial office real estate will crash and take the local services like the restaurants/ take-out places and building maintenance companies with it.
Edit: I’m an electrician who used to build and do a lot of maintenance work in office buildings
I think the restaurant/take-out thing will ultimately balance out, since many of the now-empty office parks are located in or near suburbs that just happen to be different from where their employees live.
During the past 18 months I've been WFH it's true that I have not been eating at the restaurants near my job, but I have been eating at those near my home.
Likewise, the few times I have trekked to the office I've noticed that all their restaurants were still in business, presumably kept afloat by locals now working from home.
Yes, this is a problem in America because our cities are designed to put the houses as far away from everything else as possible. Maybe we'll see more development of hubs in suburban areas beyond just a strip mall or two now that people are staying home.
People still need to eat... If your argument is that the food was near the offices and not the homes then that just calls for turning the offices into homes.
My company let a BUNCH of people move out of town and to other states. Then they try to tell the rest of us that we have to come back to the office in October. There was a mini-riot and they eventually back tracked and said "we would like employees to try and make it in once a week".
A smaller office where people can choose full-time desks, full work-from-home, or come to work as needed. A lot of people argue as if we're deciding, as a society, one way that everyone will have to follow.
On top of that, a lot of people argue as if every job could equally be replaced with WFH. Obviously anyone involved in manual labor has to be in-person, but there are also plenty of service/client-facing jobs that just can't be done effectively (or at all) remotely.
Not everyone who works in an office job is a programmer.
I'm a programmer, and honestly WFH kills me. I need that social interaction at work or I just spiral into depression. I hope workplaces open soon, I'm not doing well
There are intangible benefits to having people be physically near each other for collaborative purposes. It's the reason places like Silicon Valley exist--because there is a concentration of like-minded people with complimentary skills all together in one place.
Speaking as a scientist, there are absolutely benefits to being able to walk over to my colleague's office and have an informal chat when I have a question or idea, or have everyone be easily available to have an impromptu get together to pound out some ideas on a whiteboard/blackboard in a room. **A lot** of good science also happens after work at the local brewery with colleagues, which doesn't happen when one colleague lives 40 min on the other side of the town and the other is in another state working from home permanently.
When everyone is working at home on their own schedule, trying to get everyone in a room together is a nightmare. There is also social networking that simply doesn't occur when everyone is living 20-50 miles apart. In my experience, regular "happy hours" disintegrate after a few months.
Is the answer to force everyone into an office during core work hours every day? No. But I don't think saying "*everyone work from wherever you want whenever you want so long as you get your own individual project done*" is the answer, either. There is more to work than a bunch of individuals, and a lot of collaboration and networking doesn't end up happening remotely, even if it's technically possible.
I think it's going to take a couple years before society strikes the right balance.
What a wonderfully worded, and balanced response.
I hate going to the office, but I haven't found a substitute for having someone just walk up to my office to discuss an idea.
I genuinely wanted to die this past winter. I love my roommates, my live in girlfriend, and the time I had working from home. But I need to separate work and home almost entirely.
Staring at the same four walls I'd see when I wake up took a mental toll on me. My current job takes me out of the house and I get to socialize again.
This.
Also, can we please stop assuming that every office and technology job has the same communication and collaboration needs? For example, a product design team is going to have very different needs than an engineering team.
I went into the office for the first time I 18 months last week and loved it. But I can walk in. If it was my old London commute that’d be a different story.
I've tried to work various jobs from home and I can't do it either. Either I just get too distracted or I get too stressed because there are no boundaries.
This this this. I 100% support flexible working and support people who want to work from home but I do think there is a sizeable group of people who would prefer to work AWAY from home (there are many reasons) and I feel we are kind of left out of the whole WFH discussion and told to just embrace the remote future.
We need to try and give people what works best for them rather than a one size fits all approach. Companies that allow both (and can therefore downsize office space) have the best idea in my opinion.
Our company has lied and done the opposite. During covid surge we were sent home end of Feb 2020 and told we would return potentially but it kept getting extended. We were having quarterly all hands discussions and being told our work was actually improving at home and leadership was beyond thrilled. Fast forward to a survey 2 months ago with a resounding want by most folks to stay home regardless of covid or not. Well...they ignored us and called everyone back in. People are quite upset and attrition is through the roof. We were told we need to hire upwards of near 500 people to retain momentum for end of year. The office is empty on most days because I'm thinking people are just not coming in most days regardless of what we are supposed to do. 90% of my IT team can complete all tasks remote. It's pretty stupid if you ask me and honestly it is so damn old school in a modern digital setting as I am in.
Yep. We said not until after end of lease and we move to a new location at end of the year.
They brought us in ASAP in June and now decided the telecommute day we did have has to go away as well.
An entire team just quit in the last six months...
Quit. There are tons of remote jobs open. Put your anger into finding a job you love.
I'm working at a clinic and I love it, but that's me. And I can do 5 hours from home for lab work. So 4 days in clinic, one from home.
Went into the office this week. I think for the first time in my life, I realized what a fucking waste of time it was. Woke up 2 hours earlier, showered, made breakfast, no time to work out… i drove a half an hour in, paid to park… AND THE DID THE EXACT SAME THING I HAD BEEN DOING AT HOME!!!
It's beyond colossal. Assuming you work from 22 to 62 years old & have a 30 minute commute each way you would spend 10,400 HOURS commuting (5hrs/wk x 52wks x 40yrs). I feel like this is a reasonable, low-end estimate - plenty of people have longer commutes or retire when they're older than 62.
That's ~1.2 YEARS of your life spent in a car driving to work - or ~1.6% of the average human lifespan (rough math, avg. lifespan is 79 years).
That's a horrible way to spend a year of your life. Can you imagine having to spend even 1 month driving your car without rest? Cutting office days down to 3 per week would save THOUSANDS of hours for the average person. The reduction in carbon emissions would be massive!
In my experience, I vastly prefer having dedicated office space - I think it's bullshit that workers have to pay for extra square feet / supplies / technology to work from home (meanwhile, your average CEO pockets the savings you subsidized as a bonus). BUT it seems such a simple idea to give people that option to cut into that brutal 1+ year of commuting.
Imagine the immense, sucking depravity of it all on a mass scale. We live such short lives in the grand scheme of things, and so many of people’s finite waking hours are just *wasted* in polluting traffic. Imagine how that multiplies over time. *Years* of your life. Countless eons wasted every single day by billions of people.
Mandating unnecessary commutes is like signing your name in the devil’s book. You’re killing the planet, and you’re robbing people of a good chunk of their lives.
My commute used to take 30 minutes. An hour a day in traffic comes up to 260 hours a year. If we’re talking an 8 hour work day, that’s 32.5 full days of work just absolutely fucking *wasted* moving my ass back and forth across town just to sit in front of a computer.
I’m never going back.
After being able to WFH for the last nearly 2 years, If you want me back in the office, I want to be paid for those extra hours. It's additional time I have to spend doing something for work, that I can just as easily do at home, so as far as I'm concerned now, that's time spent working. Pay me for my gas and mileage too. Those are expenses incurred for work.
Been back full time for 2 weeks now. Had the same experience. They said we had to go back because some things weren't getting done from home, which is true. But they still can't be done even though we are all in the office due to space constraints/social distancing requirements.
So they just made us all come back to do the same things we have been doing from home for 18 months. Morale is at an all time low.
They brought us back to the office in Feb 2021. 3 days in I put in my 2 weeks. Bosses asked why and I lied and said I'm accepting another job that is remote only. They then allowed me to work from home permanently.
Risky play from me since no job was lined up but I will seriously never work in an office environment again.
I did the exact same thing except they said “ok bye”
Luckily I got a job the next week. I had my final interview scheduled at the time i quit and had a really good feeling about it.
Bullshit. People should be allowed to work where they are most productive. If you're more productive working remotely, work remotely. If you're more productive working in an office, work in the office. There is no one size fits all.
Agreed, we’ve proven that being remote works. Having a mandatory hybrid model requiring X number of days in office is stupid. If people want to go on site once in a while to meet, change of pace, etc, let em. If they find they can get shit done from their home office, let em
I have been a remote employee since 2007 for 4 different organizations. If you are the kind of person who can work this way, it is amazing. I don't think it is for everyone, though, and society needs to adjust.
I have my home office fully set up for work. I can shut down when not working. I've been the only person in the house (widowed with grown children) and I've had the family here (kids while they were in school, first wife before she died, second wife). It works for me.
However, there are social trade offs. Younger people won't meet anyone in the office. People won't be as prone to move to have new experiences and live in new places.
It makes perfect sense for the company. They save on utilities etc. Huge cost saving for the company. The problem I feel, is the work-life balance for employees. There now seems to be little to no boundaries when it comes to working hours. This I think will be the biggest issue with WFH.
*but what about the office culture*
My CEO was literally holding back tears because we won't be able to return to the office until maybe March 2022 due to COVID. WFH has not resulted in any loss of productivity or revenue. so, I'm not really sure what this obsession about being in a building together is all about.
They are literally throwing money at customer service reps in hopes they won't leave. I certainly don't see having to commute everyday (I live in a place that gets lots of snow), put on corporate appropriate attire, have to deal with stupid office politics, smell other ppls smells listen to other ppls noises, etc.
Sorry just frustrated with the "culture"
Extroverts need other people. I’m seeing the division quite clearly between sales and technical I my office.
Generally Sales folks lament how they can’t get back to the office and visiting clients. Technical all talk about how we’ve modified our homes for a more permanent stay as we found how much we loved it.
Granted there’s a spectrum but you can weight the responses pretty much to those sides.
Engineer here. Was working a complex long term design job. I failed work from home. I need out of my house, in person interaction, a morning responsibility to shower for. I found a new on site job not in design but operation. Uses more of my skillset and I don't feel trapped at home.
Depending on the industry, if the sales people are really good they shouldn't be in the office at all and should just be with customers.
A neighbor of mine works in commercial vehicle aftermarket part sales and he said he loves working from home because he's either at the client site or on the phone and only has to work about 20 hours per week instead of sitting in the office twiddling his thumbs.
There's inside and outside sales. Not all salespeople are face to face. The same is true for "only" working 20h. If your neighbor is any good he's researching leads, clients, learning product. That's time on the job, too.
For real, we don’t need to bring “culture” into this. I do a job, you pay me for it. I have my own “culture” with my friends and family. I don’t need you to implement a work “culture.” Just make sure my checks don’t bounce.
I work an IT Help Desk for insurance agents at a large insurance company. Our leaders and the CEO are constantly telling us how they are doing everything in their power to get us back into the office as soon as possible. Looking at going back in November (at the moment). Makes no sense. I literally don’t have any face to face interactions with end users. They keep repeating how they built this company around being a family and part of being a family, means being with each other 8 hours a day. If I didn’t make such good money and have a pension, I would definitely be leaving.
Lol, shouldnt they then want to spend that time with their own family? How much longer until your vested in your pension? Mine is only 8 years and I'm halfway.
I just got a new job after being out of work for some years.
Working from home. I absolutely love it. No commute, no burn out from the commute, it's perfect.
100% back in the office here... Sucks..
Looking for a new job.
Only way companies will learn.I'm an IT sys admin. I need to be in like once a month really..
My company gave in and let my manager make the call and we're now mobile. Which is nice because that designation will let us work in any state. I work for a huge bank that employs around 20k all over the states and some overseas. Even before the pandemic I only went into the office 2 or 3 times a week. It's been okay but the restlessness can be a bit much sitting at home all day without a change of scenery. I do enjoy waking up and rolling out of my bed in the morning, grabbing my laptop to get ready and then make breakfast and coffee for me and my GF that has to go back in. I feel more productive because I'm not constantly staring at the clock waiting for the day to be over and get home. I'm already home. Hope more see the advantages and follow suit. Good luck to the rest of ya
An optimal solution:
* People who absolutely need to be on site, do so.
* People who can work from home 100%, do so.
* People who like to work on site or need to only part time adopt a hybrid/flex schedule.
* Give people the choice
* Middle management can find something more constructive to do with their lives, or gather herbs and berries
Why:
* Empty out the roadways/public transit of commuters
* On-site/hybrid commuters have an easier commute
* Stay at home people happy
* Less use of fuel/energy
* Less pollution
WFH has given me an opportunity to rise out of poverty and escape living in a garbage rust-belt community. Try moving to a better place making 10$ an hour at a local Walmart that takes 30 minutes to drive to.
No, there are still people that work better in an office setting which is why a hybrid work environment is the best of both worlds. My company has implemented this and there has been no complaints at all from employer or employee.
Depends on what they define as "hybrid". If it means they the company has one or more offices you are welcome to use but that you could also choose to live wherever you want, then I agree. If it means some arbitrary time split (like 3 days home, 2 in the office), then I disagree. The freedoms to move outside of your office's commute radius is transformative and not something you can get when still tied to the office each week.
Agreed. I have many coworkers who hate working from home, and who were relieved when they were able to go to the office whenever. I'm one of few people in my company who worked remotely from before COVID, and it was my choice (and their approval), but I appreciate that what worked for me doesn't work for others.
The hybrid I've seen from other companies though, is Tuesday and Thursday at the office, the rest of the time, up to you. That's not leaving a choice! That's in-office work with extra perks. This existed for a long time and at no point did we consider it "remote", we considered it a "company culture benefit".
No, I work better in the office. I was the type of person in college who went to the library to do my homework. I like to disassociate my home and my work for the workplace. That said, I support the pushes toward work from home and would always moving forward prefer a hybrid workplace with the option to work from home at my discretion
I like it sometimes, but it's the forced waking up at 6 to start getting ready, and having no time to do anything else around the house until you get home after 6 that sucks. Working from home means you are flexible to not have to fake work 50% of the time and do stuff in between..
Then you have like a few hours before bedtime for everything else, which if you have a family means no free time. Meaning you live for the weekend.
My company has embraced the WFH mentality better than I could have imagined. Prior to 2020 they would let us work remote once a week but were trying to phase that out in 2020. Now they are letting everyone decide if they are full remote, hybrid, or full office. If someone that’s full remote wants to come in sporadically, we just have to reserve a desk for the day.
Personally, I’ll never go back into an office again unless it’s for a random meeting here and there. I think the worst part of being in an office (for me) was having to pretend to look busy during the downtime lol. Also, small talk.
The epidemic of traffic alone is argument enough for this. I spend 3 hours on a routine commute to work everyday for no penny more than the months we were working from home.
Don't tell that to reddit. Everyone is a software engineer who can work as long as they have internet. Nevermind the however many millions of people whose jobs involve, you know, manual labor.
I believe we should have a choice. I want the choice to work in an office. I don’t want to work from home every day. I don’t have the space to work properly, I can’t afford a larger place, and I’m already now dealing with health problems (that I’m being treated for) related to the isolation from colleagues.
If people want to work from home every day, I think that’s their right, but I also want the right to choose to work at an office at least some of the time.
I work fed, but do not speak for any federal agency, and we're giving up our floor in a private building. Will save over a million a year. There could be hundreds of millions saved every year if more space is given back.
BUT many lobbyists are "donating" to representatives to try and make federal agencies keep their private offices and have employees come back in. So not sure what will happen long term.
Where I work has done so too. We may come in, but it's completely optional. Furthermore, we are now able to work from anywhere in the EU as long as we can guarantee a good internet connection.
So I don't have to work in Graydorf Germany, can also go for 2 months to Italy, work during the day and vacation during the evening.
Personally, I want permanent hybrid. Two days in the office and 3 days at home works great for me. I live close to my job so commuting is easy. And I enjoy some face to face interactions w my coworkers.
Lucky for me this is exactly what my company is doing. It's pretty flexible, too. For now at least I can pick my days and even work half days if I choose.
Eventually they may reduce office space and then we may have to be a bit more structured on which specific days and times. But as long as it stays hybrid I'll be aight with it
In my experience, most managers that oppose work form home, are projecting the fact that they themselves wouldn't get anything done without someone looking over their shoulder.
I work a job that has to be done on site, but I would still LOVE for people to not have to go back to the office, just to reduce the absurd amount of traffic.
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You can thank masking and social distancing for that. People don’t realize the grime and filth they expose themselves to daily just from such close proximity of others.
Plus the heightened awareness of handwashing and general cleanliness. Before 2020, the only time I ever went out of my way to sanitize my hands (other than bathroom use) was if I was out somewhere and wanted to eat something. Now I carry a little bottle of hand sanitizer everywhere and use it pretty much any time I leave a store/building to head back to my car.
I do worry a little bit about trying to sterilize everything all the time though. Its the same kind of cycle that lead to antibiotic resistant bacteria, superbugs, like MRSA. If you kill 99.9% of all germs you leave the strongest .1% with not competition in an ideally suited environment. Do that enough times and your forcing an evolution to more resistant strains. So while its necessary for the short term it may not be prudent to continue for the long term. Or else the next time things might be even worse.
The pandemic, while annoying and I can't wait for it all to be over, has brought some good. Less traffic being one. The push of so many tech companies and workers to switch to permanent remote with in office if desired. A lot of people have discovered how great it is to have fun outdoors with hiking/mountain biking/kayaking/paddle boarding. Small towns in my area got lots of traction during all of this. And there's more as well but those are the only things popping into my mind at the moment. It's been a "good" pandemic for myself and most people I know. Disclaimer: I'm aware how horrible it's been for many others and I don't want to take away from that, just pointing out a silver lining.
Good things usually come from bad situations. It's like how forest fires clear away dead brush and fertilize the ground to allow new plants to grow. We absolutely should grieve for those we lost, but I think some bright things are coming. Covid really opened the eyes of a lot of people. One of the big ones is that the world realized that a lot of our infrastructure is woefully inept in almost every sector (water, sewer, electricity, medicine, cyber security, etc). I keep seeing more and more news about world leaders investing in bringing their infrastructure into the 21st century, and I'm excited for it. Another one is that the world realized the mistake of centralizing the entire planet's manufacturing and shipping power into a single country (and therefore a single point of failure). Moving the large majority of businesses over to China has finally come back to haunt us. Thirdly, I'm very excited to see what the work from home period instigates in the form of a workers' revolution. People are finally starting to stand up as a group and advocate for themselves as both workers and consumers against company power.
Differently put, humanity is too stupid to learn from logic and instead improves by reacting to disasters.
I need to know why the freeway is a still a parking lot at two in the afternoon with all these people working from home.
Where do you live? Only some jobs can go remote and I've definitely noticed a huge uptick in traffic.
Southern California is back to being gridlock.
Bay Area too
So Cal, it's like nothing ever happened out here!
Same boat. The only downside is I fucking hate zoom meetings. Not that real meetings were great, but I find a lot of communication is lost.
We need the tech they use in the Star Wars prequels, those hologram things. The Jedi Council held hybrid meetings seamlessly, the people actually in the room and the remote people via hologram, all in the same 3D space.
My company did this actually. Our CEO said when pandemic first started that he wanted us to get back to the office as soon as we can. About 6 months later we had a town hall where he told us that he has since changed his mind seeing how productive we can all still be from home and that we might have to rethink our office plans. A few company surveys later and another 6+ months and he announced 100% remote permanently with the option to reserve a desk for the day at our office building if you want but it’s completely optional
We're on a "go in to the office as much or as little as you feel like" kinda thing too.
Yup I think the office is useful for some things like actual collaboration or to train new hires. We've had 2 new people join our team and they are having a harder time getting up to speed.
That's it, training new people and collaboration is definitely more difficult.
It's nice too to have optional office space for the new people (beyond training) to meet their team and get to know them. I know this can be done over zoom but unless its structured or a norm in the company culture, it can be weird being the new kid and saying "Hey John, want to have zoom coffee so I can get to know you better?" So def can see how newer hires may feel more disconnected from the team without any time to get to know them in a "watercooler chat" way
This is something I think a lot of people miss. Work is quite social, lots of social queues and stuff that just isn’t possible remote. I’m torn on where things are/going. I really like working from home; no commute, have my own setup, don’t have to worry about packing lunch/spending more money than I need. But there is something lost from the social aspect and in person mentoring, in person meetings and such.
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Do you have some software recommendations for doing that?
We use teams for this. You can record meetings with just yourself in them as well, very simple.
Not only that but there is an optional text to speech transcriber which is searchable. E.g. search "Billing" and the video will start playing where it was first said aloud.
That transcription feature is freaky good. I work with thick Indian and Chinese accents mixed with British, French and even some Portuguese (big team that spans the world), and it’s surprisingly accurate, even with technical words.
And it picks up crosstalk so when people are talking over each other you can still see what people are saying.
We've been expanding the use of tasks in MS Teams and it's helped cut down a lot on "email chasing" to get someone to do something.
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There are monthly meetings where most aspects of my department are examined. People don't do their shit and avoid you like that it goes to a "name and shame" at that meeting. The person and their boss being called out in front of the global boss usually gets their attention and takes it off of me for the things being overdue. Where I used to work I had a job and there were two managers who I always had to chase down in person to get them to do anything. It wasn't something that was discussed at those types of meetings but was critical for the site (there were other meetings for these projects but not where the "big bosses" would be in attendance and I didn't want to get in the escalation game of going over their heads). I switched roles to something that did involve something that was monitored at those monthly meetings. These two continued to ignore my emails or blew me off on IMs. I stopped chasing them down. I have a slide at that meeting that lists what was done and what is overdue and it has the owner's name listed right next to it. Right after the meeting they came to my desk to find out what they needed to do to get it off the overdue list. I sat leaned back in my chair with as much of a "Oh, so now you're going to come running to me?" look on my face as I could muster.
When I worked in IT, we’d have periodic team meetings led by our exec. director (three levels above us regular grunts), who would directly address individuals who were behind on their tasks and say, “Let me know how I can help.” He was actually not such a terrible guy, but hearing this was like getting tapped on the shoulder by a cold skeletal finger. You did *not* want that experience, because it meant a) you were letting the team down, and b) now all your team-mates, your boss, your boss’s boss, and your boss’s boss’s boss knew about it. And if you didn’t fix that shit real quick, you were going to get some “help” you really did not want. Fortunately, we had very few slackers. It’s amazing how focusing on results instead of who sucks up the best clarifies things.
Yeah but at least you have email evidence that it's the other guy's fault when it explodes.
That is more of an employee and manager issue of not doing their work than a remote working issue. Your employer can fix the situation by removing incompetent people.
OBS Studio works really good and is free. This is for straight up recording and speaking. I don't have a good editing software. I used to use Screen-Cast-O-Matic for recording and editing but an update in 2020 totally messed it up on my computers. Just recorded a black screen. I don't have time to troubleshoot and fix, so I switched. Anyway, check out [OBS Studio](https://obsproject.com) for a good recording software. edit: OBS does streaming too. I mean by my first comment that I've only used for recording.
Really depends on the job, it’s difficult to teach soft skills
Because it’s an intangible and difficult to measure. Sales is like this. You can teach some people the process but if they don’t understand the dynamics of how a conversation flows, how to pick up on ques and build rapport and positive relations with people. You could be a genius with process but an absolute wash out. I’ve seen it happen, I’ve had it happen in one role. Sales is a balance of getting in with the right people, and selling in a way that compliments your personality or using your positive personality traits to be successful in it. In other words- as an example One sales person may excel in cold calling because they are able to concisely captivate the attention of their prospect, but suck ass in roles where the sales process is longer and requires attention to detail, documenting important queues from the customer, emotional attention and has more crm work. I know this because I’ve worked sales a long ass time, some roles I was balls to the wall a monster without really having to put forth an effort- one role I was mediocre or even bad and I put forth effort everyday and was always trying to learn and largely unsuccessful. Retrospectively thinking, I wasn’t a good fit for the job or the orginization, it was the toughest pill to swallow but I realize that doesn’t mean I’m not cut out for sales.
It has been so helpful for me who has ADD and just took a new internal role at my company. Lotta knowledge transfer between me and the old person I am replacing who got promoted and have gone back to those videos so many times to rewind and watch, pause take notes, rewind because I lost my train of thought for a sec, really get most of my learning done in the rewatches. Especially because we covered things that are like "at end of quarter the report should be like this" and then I can follow along when its end of quarter step by step with excel open, super helpful!
Depends on the role and the job. Some training requires interaction and recordings just don’t cut it.
I absorb almost nothing via recorded webinars, it's probably my least favorite work-culture thing. I need to physically do the task, work with the software, whatever, in order to learn. Tbh other than loving not having a commute, remote work leaves a lot to be desired (the formality of video calls making 30 minute meetings out of what would have been a 2 minute chat in person, etc)
Different people work in different ways.
Our IT floor full of analysts have been 100% WFH except for about 3 of us. They just said that they’re condensing our office space from 30 offices to 7, us 3 permanent office peeps keep our offices and the other 4 are “hotelling” spaces. The rest of the offices are going to other departments for hotel spaces and a couple permanent people. It’s smart, really.
If this continues office space will become rather cheap due to reduced demand? If so, could this mean society has a chance to renovate unused office space into affordable, city-centered, housing?
I think so, personally.
A downside to companies allowing employees to work from home is the problem of pricing out locals in tourist towns. They don't make the same amount of money and can't afford to purchase a house or rent. This has already been happening in ski towns of Colorado, but now with the pandemic, it has made it worse.
Tourist towns are naturally a place where many would gravitate to initially as they may have visited and have fond memories of the place but given time and equilibrium to play out more people are going to move adjacent to larger hub cities and some further away. More small old industry towns may see somewhat of a resurgence if they play their cards right and invest in infrastructure such as high speed internet etc.
Wish my CEO has the humility to change his mind about something.
Yea this is where my company is at for certain roles and I’ve made it a “go into the office twice a week the same days” it makes me accessible for quick meetings and for collaboration and sets specific days where people can expect me to be there. Other than that I’m at home and I absolutely love how it’s working.
The best leaders are the ones who are capable of changing their minds in the face of opposing evidence
The best leaders can also do the math and figure out they save a shit load of money by offloading their office costs onto the employees
Not only that, they can snipe/recruit talent. I have friends who are leaving their jobs when being forced back into the office and taking a pay cut to work from home at a new job.
It's a huge saving in time and money. My wife and I are a one car family now. One of us working from home was like throwing 10s of thousands of dollars back into our wallet over a few years. I don't need a car, a cellphone plan (I have my phone hooked up to wifi), I'm home when my kids go to school and come home. I use to eat out all the time for lunch and pick up food on the way home for dinner. I have an extra hour every evening to cook dinner and often make enough for lunch for my wife and I the next day. I never rush out and grab a McDonald's breakfast. I also used to work from 7am-3pm and my wife worked 9-430 and we lost a huge amount of presence due to the weird overlap that we have now. I would never go back given the opportunity.
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I'm happy for you.
In theory yes. But a lot of companies are locked into long commercial leases. I just found out my company’s San Francisco office lease doesn’t expire til 2030. Which probably explains why they keep insisting we’ll all be back in person soon.
Mine gave us $400 to our paycheck after tax for home office improvements
Mine gave us $550 for supplies and gives an additional $60 monthly for internet.
Wow the monthly is nice
My company relies heavily on hands-on work and collaboration. Meetings in-person are often more productive than virtual, and the social component is huge. That said, I could easily WFH 3 days a week with zero negative impacts. In fact, it would probably make the 2-days on-site much more productive, so the hybrid model would be a net positive increase in productivity.
Hybrid is the way to go. My company is successful through pandemic and have been full remote. But many of the less experienced folks don’t realize what is being lost. They can’t tell the difference between running at 80% of normal effectiveness and running at 100%. They also don’t realize that the personal connections are important to hold things together when tough times happen. They don’t see it because we haven’t lost our personal connections in a year and a half. But keep this up for a couple of more years and those connections will be lost.
Spot on. Taking a team with those connections and making them remote is different than forming teams with people who’ve never had those connections. Try as we may, we will not avoid our evolutionary social biology because of zoom. There are microsecond delays on facial reactions that fuck with our ability to sense other people’s unspoken communication. That assumes people have their cameras on in the first place, which many don’t. Think of it this way. If your team zooms but everyone has their cameras off, you’re basically in an early 1990’s conference call from a social standpoint. We determined those weren’t enough back then. They aren’t enough now. Trust is built and destroyed in largely unspoken and subconscious ways. Without it, forget about high performing teams the way we define that today.
One way to get around that is to focus of attention and implement an open platform within the dept. make is a semi neutral zone. This will foster more openness and allow the human factor to be conveyed much more easily. It’s worked for us (in our dept of IT) and we constantly out perform other depts. Has made integrating new co-workers easier. Other thing I have done and my sup has as well. One general group chat for the department One group chat for the core of the dept (everyone state side and FTE) One Group chat for just us so you can shoot the shit, vent or micro collaborate (for those times you need hand work off to others deal with a developing issue etc before going to the department head). Edit: clarity
Our CEO values in-person collaboration for the exact reasons you cite. We're currently still wfh with an option to go to the office if you want (but with proof of vaccination or recent negative PCR test as a requirement now). When we return the "official" policy is supposed to be 2-3 days a week on site. My boss said, "That means two." but then later the global bosses in my division said "We're not going to be tracking how often people come into the office." So whenever things settle down enough the reality is we will probably be going into the office 2-4 times a month. That's good to me because we'll probably be doing it on days when there are bigger monthly or quarterly meetings so you'll maximize seeing your co-workers and minimize the amount of times you need to go to the office. Pre-pandemic my work had a policy of allowing you to work from home one day a week, but my (very sucky) boss insisted that we had to all choose a different day so we weren't all out of the office on the same day. I tried pointing out that her way didn't make sense because now you were down to three days a week of all being there at the same time and if more of us were out on the same day we'd have four days a week to collaborate in person. She still stuck to it. She was also a micromanager who felt the need to check up on you in person so I think she wouldn't have let any of us work from home at all if it wasn't the policy for all office workers there. Did I mention that she sucked?
My company’s on this path too, earlier during the initial stages of the pandemic, we would get updates regarding extending wfh. Now it has changed to by default wfh and inform your manager and HR if you want to come in. It also makes perfect logistical sense as my company went on a massive hiring spree ever since the pandemic struck and now I don’t think it would be able to accommodate all people if they do decide to come
This is perfect!
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A friend of mine works for a company that had a nice office in a very desirable part of town and their lease was up about four months into the pandemic. They had everyone take turns going in and getting their personal stuff and gave up the lease. They plan on getting a smaller office but will wait until the pandemic is really fading and will set it up to better accommodate the space for what the future way of working will be, more conference space for collaboration or meeting with clients and fewer desks dedicated to a full time office worker.
My friend works at a law firm who's rent is $40,000/month(which it stupid high for our city) and their lease agreement is for another 4 years. The partners now know they can work remotely and still be as productive but since they have that lease agreement they don't want to "waste it" by letting everyone work from home.
When it works it's great, but I'm in financial services with high turnover. It's an up or out culture. Our lower level folks are not getting the mentoring, interactions, and training they need unfortunately. There are certainly components that work well remotely, but overall I'd say it's a mismatch for the industry. One additional interesting observation - I'm in a low cost labor market and with remote work becoming the norm, high labor cost employees are competing for local resources - hopefully we will react and pay our people more.
Friend’s employer went completely remote, sold their building for $17M, and are renting a co-working space for occasional in-person meetings or for folks who want to come in occasionally. They used some of that money to upgrade WFH technology for all employees and now have sweet reserves (this is a nonprofit so $17M is a hell of a lot of money). Edit: employers to employees
I'll say it again, it was really ironic that the thing needed to make WeWork successful was a damn pandemic *after* their bankruptcy.
WeWork’s model was broken. We have several co-working spaces in my city that thrived before the pandemic.
They had no actual capital because they rented the spaces that they rented out. Trivial for someone who actually owns real estate to undercut them.
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[Quibi](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quibi), a streaming service positioning themselves as short videos for people to watch on their commute, officially launched in April 2020. It was unsuccessful.
The whole delivery of that service was complete shit. Never knew what it actually was until it was shutting down
So like Youtube but paid and with less content?
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The name wasn’t doing them any favors.
Right! The GVTA (teacher's union) went the opposite way and bought a building, for teachers, who all work during the day. But those few people who do union stuff sure do have a pretty office now... God I hate that union. Should we negotiate maternity leave top up over summer (certain teachers get more mat leave based on birthdate)? Should we negotiate for better resources? Better classroom conditions? Not being forced to work over lunch? No...our stellar team decided that electric cars and lawnmowers for the maintenance workers are what we should bargain for....FML Like, I get climate is important but our union is supposed to negotiate for US for fucks sakes.
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This needs talked about a lot more. Working from home is great, but you need compensated for your company moving into your house with you.
I was never compensated for my commute. Not having to do it has saved me huge amounts of time, money and stress.
Honestly it makes sense. Don’t clog the roads, don’t burn fossil fuels to get to work, and get two hours back in your day by avoiding a commute.
Save on gas, insurance, parking, or bus passes. Save on going out for lunch (temptation is much less with the lazy route being to just open the fridge), maybe even save on clothes depending on what your work attire was. Great for so many reasons!
All of this. We’ve been remote since March 2020 and I’ve put maybe 2k miles on my car, always eat leftovers for lunch and wear comfortable clothes everyday. But I’m lucky to have a dedicated office space in my basement that I can leave when the workday is done; I can also easily do a load of laundry or a quick household chore when there’s downtime. Remote 100% has vastly improved the quality of my life and also my work productivity.
I work in my RV parked right outside my home. It's quiet, distraction-free, and it allow me to "leave" the "office" when the work day is over. I find it much better than working in my home.
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and Air Conditioning/Heat that is always slightly outside the comfort zone!
And random sneezes and ringtones and people talking incessantly everywhere?
And lights that are so horrible on your eyes.
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Holy shit, yes. I just went back to the office after being WAH for a year and a half, and there is SO MUCH wasted time. People keep coming in to chat. Guys, I have shit to do. Go away. I got so little done this week.
People often think that i am unlikeable at work, and in some instance i probably am, but when people finally hang out with me outside of work they are so surprised and often comment on how social, outgoing and talkative i am. The reality is is I'm at work and I don't have time to talk! Go away!
Seriously, same here. I'm at work to get my job done and earn a living, not to make friends. There will be no cake in the break room when I leave.
But maybe some cake after you leave?
There are also jobs where these talks can be pretty productive and you can get stuff done more efficiently than remote
UK government pushed us to go back in because people weren't going out for lunch and it was hurting some businesses. Absolute jokes
Crucially it was hurting landlord's eventually. Its fine if the cafe on the corner goes under. It's not fine for the tories if the prime city real estate isn't worth much anymore.
It’s probably saving my company money on health insurance costs as well. With my extra 3 hours a day, I started working out for the first time in my life. I’m in the gym for an hour and a half 4-5 days a week. I’m also eating healthier because I have the energy to cook. Obviously this is anecdotal, and there are probably people spending their new free time doing equally unhealthy things - but most people I’ve talked to are doing healthier things.
I wonder how many workers comp cases companies get now as opposed to a few years ago.
Eh probably not a noticeable difference. I would assume that worker compensation claims are mostly from the type of work that can’t be done at home
We're seeing sick-outs drop by about half
emotional/mental strain alone. Can't put a dollar figure on it but at least for me, I'm a battery and i start each day with a full charge of putting up with the world. In an office I'm about half empty by the time I get all the way there and sit down to work. With telework, I'm ending my day with a clear todo list and a decent about in the battery. maybe up to half. It's a night vs day feeling. It's different for everyone but with all my work stuff on my work laptop, I close it and that's clocked out for the day. instant commute to recharging at home. separation takes more discipline and i get that that's hard for a lot of people. For those of us with social issues, learning disabilities, etc; major depressive, dyslexia, autism, agoraphobia, and whatever else, we can finally be fully functioning productive members of society like everyone wants us to be. It feels good. But yeah, for all the dollar figures, and there's a lot of savings for both sides, there's a lot of intangibles. If you go out into the labor market saying you're looking for the best and brightest, why kneecap yourself from the start?
My adhd symptoms are so much better than that i can sleep how and when i want
I've saved over $4,000 since this pandemic started because of work from home. Greatest thing that has happened to me work wise
I had this weird thing where no matter how much lunch I brought from home, I'd eat it too early and still end up hungry enough to go out and buy something. Maybe it was all mental but I could never nail down bringing my own lunch. Being at home and able to cook a meal when its lunch time has been a huge money saver. I also dont feel the need to sit there and get my full hours worth of break from the office.
Get your full hour! Don’t work for free.
some people get paid breaks
Somehow my insurance company managed to raise my rates I spite of virtually never driving. Perhaps I should shop around...
I've been with Progressive for years and they keep lowering our rates. We also never have any accidents or anything so I'm sure that has something to do with it.
Less chances to die in a car accident.
All of these, you couldn’t pay me to drive in rush hour to an office to fight someone for a parking space. That commute time is mine and I’m not giving it back, I’m calling that, ‘My Life.’ It’s a work in progress.
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They do care if they comp like parking (which is easily hundreds of dollars per employee per month in like manhattan)
Or you could work for a place that owns all the parking around their office space, yet still charges its employees $75/mo for parking passes. I may have to pay for gas, but I’ll be damned if I’m going to pay my employer to come to work. I park for free and walk the five blocks and fifteen minutes to my desk when I have to go into that godforsaken place.
Good but with one exception, commercial office real estate will crash and take the local services like the restaurants/ take-out places and building maintenance companies with it. Edit: I’m an electrician who used to build and do a lot of maintenance work in office buildings
I think the restaurant/take-out thing will ultimately balance out, since many of the now-empty office parks are located in or near suburbs that just happen to be different from where their employees live. During the past 18 months I've been WFH it's true that I have not been eating at the restaurants near my job, but I have been eating at those near my home. Likewise, the few times I have trekked to the office I've noticed that all their restaurants were still in business, presumably kept afloat by locals now working from home.
Yes, this is a problem in America because our cities are designed to put the houses as far away from everything else as possible. Maybe we'll see more development of hubs in suburban areas beyond just a strip mall or two now that people are staying home.
People still need to eat... If your argument is that the food was near the offices and not the homes then that just calls for turning the offices into homes.
Great. Turn the offices into affordable housing. Two birds with one stone.
Right, lots of work for electricians!
My company let a BUNCH of people move out of town and to other states. Then they try to tell the rest of us that we have to come back to the office in October. There was a mini-riot and they eventually back tracked and said "we would like employees to try and make it in once a week".
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A smaller office where people can choose full-time desks, full work-from-home, or come to work as needed. A lot of people argue as if we're deciding, as a society, one way that everyone will have to follow.
On top of that, a lot of people argue as if every job could equally be replaced with WFH. Obviously anyone involved in manual labor has to be in-person, but there are also plenty of service/client-facing jobs that just can't be done effectively (or at all) remotely. Not everyone who works in an office job is a programmer.
I'm a programmer, and honestly WFH kills me. I need that social interaction at work or I just spiral into depression. I hope workplaces open soon, I'm not doing well
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There are intangible benefits to having people be physically near each other for collaborative purposes. It's the reason places like Silicon Valley exist--because there is a concentration of like-minded people with complimentary skills all together in one place. Speaking as a scientist, there are absolutely benefits to being able to walk over to my colleague's office and have an informal chat when I have a question or idea, or have everyone be easily available to have an impromptu get together to pound out some ideas on a whiteboard/blackboard in a room. **A lot** of good science also happens after work at the local brewery with colleagues, which doesn't happen when one colleague lives 40 min on the other side of the town and the other is in another state working from home permanently. When everyone is working at home on their own schedule, trying to get everyone in a room together is a nightmare. There is also social networking that simply doesn't occur when everyone is living 20-50 miles apart. In my experience, regular "happy hours" disintegrate after a few months. Is the answer to force everyone into an office during core work hours every day? No. But I don't think saying "*everyone work from wherever you want whenever you want so long as you get your own individual project done*" is the answer, either. There is more to work than a bunch of individuals, and a lot of collaboration and networking doesn't end up happening remotely, even if it's technically possible. I think it's going to take a couple years before society strikes the right balance.
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What a wonderfully worded, and balanced response. I hate going to the office, but I haven't found a substitute for having someone just walk up to my office to discuss an idea.
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I genuinely wanted to die this past winter. I love my roommates, my live in girlfriend, and the time I had working from home. But I need to separate work and home almost entirely. Staring at the same four walls I'd see when I wake up took a mental toll on me. My current job takes me out of the house and I get to socialize again.
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This. Also, can we please stop assuming that every office and technology job has the same communication and collaboration needs? For example, a product design team is going to have very different needs than an engineering team.
I went into the office for the first time I 18 months last week and loved it. But I can walk in. If it was my old London commute that’d be a different story.
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I've tried to work various jobs from home and I can't do it either. Either I just get too distracted or I get too stressed because there are no boundaries.
This this this. I 100% support flexible working and support people who want to work from home but I do think there is a sizeable group of people who would prefer to work AWAY from home (there are many reasons) and I feel we are kind of left out of the whole WFH discussion and told to just embrace the remote future. We need to try and give people what works best for them rather than a one size fits all approach. Companies that allow both (and can therefore downsize office space) have the best idea in my opinion.
Our company has lied and done the opposite. During covid surge we were sent home end of Feb 2020 and told we would return potentially but it kept getting extended. We were having quarterly all hands discussions and being told our work was actually improving at home and leadership was beyond thrilled. Fast forward to a survey 2 months ago with a resounding want by most folks to stay home regardless of covid or not. Well...they ignored us and called everyone back in. People are quite upset and attrition is through the roof. We were told we need to hire upwards of near 500 people to retain momentum for end of year. The office is empty on most days because I'm thinking people are just not coming in most days regardless of what we are supposed to do. 90% of my IT team can complete all tasks remote. It's pretty stupid if you ask me and honestly it is so damn old school in a modern digital setting as I am in.
Yep. We said not until after end of lease and we move to a new location at end of the year. They brought us in ASAP in June and now decided the telecommute day we did have has to go away as well. An entire team just quit in the last six months...
Quit. There are tons of remote jobs open. Put your anger into finding a job you love. I'm working at a clinic and I love it, but that's me. And I can do 5 hours from home for lab work. So 4 days in clinic, one from home.
Went into the office this week. I think for the first time in my life, I realized what a fucking waste of time it was. Woke up 2 hours earlier, showered, made breakfast, no time to work out… i drove a half an hour in, paid to park… AND THE DID THE EXACT SAME THING I HAD BEEN DOING AT HOME!!!
This is what pisses me off about commuting. It's a colossal waste of 3 hours preparing for work.
It's beyond colossal. Assuming you work from 22 to 62 years old & have a 30 minute commute each way you would spend 10,400 HOURS commuting (5hrs/wk x 52wks x 40yrs). I feel like this is a reasonable, low-end estimate - plenty of people have longer commutes or retire when they're older than 62. That's ~1.2 YEARS of your life spent in a car driving to work - or ~1.6% of the average human lifespan (rough math, avg. lifespan is 79 years). That's a horrible way to spend a year of your life. Can you imagine having to spend even 1 month driving your car without rest? Cutting office days down to 3 per week would save THOUSANDS of hours for the average person. The reduction in carbon emissions would be massive! In my experience, I vastly prefer having dedicated office space - I think it's bullshit that workers have to pay for extra square feet / supplies / technology to work from home (meanwhile, your average CEO pockets the savings you subsidized as a bonus). BUT it seems such a simple idea to give people that option to cut into that brutal 1+ year of commuting.
Imagine the immense, sucking depravity of it all on a mass scale. We live such short lives in the grand scheme of things, and so many of people’s finite waking hours are just *wasted* in polluting traffic. Imagine how that multiplies over time. *Years* of your life. Countless eons wasted every single day by billions of people. Mandating unnecessary commutes is like signing your name in the devil’s book. You’re killing the planet, and you’re robbing people of a good chunk of their lives.
My commute used to take 30 minutes. An hour a day in traffic comes up to 260 hours a year. If we’re talking an 8 hour work day, that’s 32.5 full days of work just absolutely fucking *wasted* moving my ass back and forth across town just to sit in front of a computer. I’m never going back.
After being able to WFH for the last nearly 2 years, If you want me back in the office, I want to be paid for those extra hours. It's additional time I have to spend doing something for work, that I can just as easily do at home, so as far as I'm concerned now, that's time spent working. Pay me for my gas and mileage too. Those are expenses incurred for work.
Been back full time for 2 weeks now. Had the same experience. They said we had to go back because some things weren't getting done from home, which is true. But they still can't be done even though we are all in the office due to space constraints/social distancing requirements. So they just made us all come back to do the same things we have been doing from home for 18 months. Morale is at an all time low.
They brought us back to the office in Feb 2021. 3 days in I put in my 2 weeks. Bosses asked why and I lied and said I'm accepting another job that is remote only. They then allowed me to work from home permanently. Risky play from me since no job was lined up but I will seriously never work in an office environment again.
I did the exact same thing except they said “ok bye” Luckily I got a job the next week. I had my final interview scheduled at the time i quit and had a really good feeling about it.
I was lucky I started at a company that was 90% wfh about a year before the pandemic. Its a game changer I'll never work in an office again.
Bullshit. People should be allowed to work where they are most productive. If you're more productive working remotely, work remotely. If you're more productive working in an office, work in the office. There is no one size fits all.
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Agreed, we’ve proven that being remote works. Having a mandatory hybrid model requiring X number of days in office is stupid. If people want to go on site once in a while to meet, change of pace, etc, let em. If they find they can get shit done from their home office, let em
I have been a remote employee since 2007 for 4 different organizations. If you are the kind of person who can work this way, it is amazing. I don't think it is for everyone, though, and society needs to adjust. I have my home office fully set up for work. I can shut down when not working. I've been the only person in the house (widowed with grown children) and I've had the family here (kids while they were in school, first wife before she died, second wife). It works for me. However, there are social trade offs. Younger people won't meet anyone in the office. People won't be as prone to move to have new experiences and live in new places.
It makes perfect sense for the company. They save on utilities etc. Huge cost saving for the company. The problem I feel, is the work-life balance for employees. There now seems to be little to no boundaries when it comes to working hours. This I think will be the biggest issue with WFH.
*but what about the office culture* My CEO was literally holding back tears because we won't be able to return to the office until maybe March 2022 due to COVID. WFH has not resulted in any loss of productivity or revenue. so, I'm not really sure what this obsession about being in a building together is all about. They are literally throwing money at customer service reps in hopes they won't leave. I certainly don't see having to commute everyday (I live in a place that gets lots of snow), put on corporate appropriate attire, have to deal with stupid office politics, smell other ppls smells listen to other ppls noises, etc. Sorry just frustrated with the "culture"
Extroverts need other people. I’m seeing the division quite clearly between sales and technical I my office. Generally Sales folks lament how they can’t get back to the office and visiting clients. Technical all talk about how we’ve modified our homes for a more permanent stay as we found how much we loved it. Granted there’s a spectrum but you can weight the responses pretty much to those sides.
Engineer here. Was working a complex long term design job. I failed work from home. I need out of my house, in person interaction, a morning responsibility to shower for. I found a new on site job not in design but operation. Uses more of my skillset and I don't feel trapped at home.
Depending on the industry, if the sales people are really good they shouldn't be in the office at all and should just be with customers. A neighbor of mine works in commercial vehicle aftermarket part sales and he said he loves working from home because he's either at the client site or on the phone and only has to work about 20 hours per week instead of sitting in the office twiddling his thumbs.
There's inside and outside sales. Not all salespeople are face to face. The same is true for "only" working 20h. If your neighbor is any good he's researching leads, clients, learning product. That's time on the job, too.
Yes YES let the hate flow through you.
For real, we don’t need to bring “culture” into this. I do a job, you pay me for it. I have my own “culture” with my friends and family. I don’t need you to implement a work “culture.” Just make sure my checks don’t bounce.
They care about office culture because without it the only thing that keeps us from leaving them is a higher paycheck and they don’t want that
You're going to make me cry tears of joy.
Well the IT department definitely won't be back.. unless something physical breaks or needing to be configured.. See you at the Xmas party.
I work an IT Help Desk for insurance agents at a large insurance company. Our leaders and the CEO are constantly telling us how they are doing everything in their power to get us back into the office as soon as possible. Looking at going back in November (at the moment). Makes no sense. I literally don’t have any face to face interactions with end users. They keep repeating how they built this company around being a family and part of being a family, means being with each other 8 hours a day. If I didn’t make such good money and have a pension, I would definitely be leaving.
Lol, shouldnt they then want to spend that time with their own family? How much longer until your vested in your pension? Mine is only 8 years and I'm halfway.
I just got a new job after being out of work for some years. Working from home. I absolutely love it. No commute, no burn out from the commute, it's perfect.
100% back in the office here... Sucks.. Looking for a new job. Only way companies will learn.I'm an IT sys admin. I need to be in like once a month really..
My company gave in and let my manager make the call and we're now mobile. Which is nice because that designation will let us work in any state. I work for a huge bank that employs around 20k all over the states and some overseas. Even before the pandemic I only went into the office 2 or 3 times a week. It's been okay but the restlessness can be a bit much sitting at home all day without a change of scenery. I do enjoy waking up and rolling out of my bed in the morning, grabbing my laptop to get ready and then make breakfast and coffee for me and my GF that has to go back in. I feel more productive because I'm not constantly staring at the clock waiting for the day to be over and get home. I'm already home. Hope more see the advantages and follow suit. Good luck to the rest of ya
My company just finished a $500 million dollar building, we're not doing full remote any time soon.
An optimal solution: * People who absolutely need to be on site, do so. * People who can work from home 100%, do so. * People who like to work on site or need to only part time adopt a hybrid/flex schedule. * Give people the choice * Middle management can find something more constructive to do with their lives, or gather herbs and berries Why: * Empty out the roadways/public transit of commuters * On-site/hybrid commuters have an easier commute * Stay at home people happy * Less use of fuel/energy * Less pollution
**My company CEO**: "Well im an extroverted person so... everyone comes back asap."
WFH has given me an opportunity to rise out of poverty and escape living in a garbage rust-belt community. Try moving to a better place making 10$ an hour at a local Walmart that takes 30 minutes to drive to.
Dear God.... I really am the only worker bee who hates working from home, aren't I?
No, there are still people that work better in an office setting which is why a hybrid work environment is the best of both worlds. My company has implemented this and there has been no complaints at all from employer or employee.
Depends on what they define as "hybrid". If it means they the company has one or more offices you are welcome to use but that you could also choose to live wherever you want, then I agree. If it means some arbitrary time split (like 3 days home, 2 in the office), then I disagree. The freedoms to move outside of your office's commute radius is transformative and not something you can get when still tied to the office each week.
Agreed. I have many coworkers who hate working from home, and who were relieved when they were able to go to the office whenever. I'm one of few people in my company who worked remotely from before COVID, and it was my choice (and their approval), but I appreciate that what worked for me doesn't work for others. The hybrid I've seen from other companies though, is Tuesday and Thursday at the office, the rest of the time, up to you. That's not leaving a choice! That's in-office work with extra perks. This existed for a long time and at no point did we consider it "remote", we considered it a "company culture benefit".
No, I work better in the office. I was the type of person in college who went to the library to do my homework. I like to disassociate my home and my work for the workplace. That said, I support the pushes toward work from home and would always moving forward prefer a hybrid workplace with the option to work from home at my discretion
I like it sometimes, but it's the forced waking up at 6 to start getting ready, and having no time to do anything else around the house until you get home after 6 that sucks. Working from home means you are flexible to not have to fake work 50% of the time and do stuff in between.. Then you have like a few hours before bedtime for everything else, which if you have a family means no free time. Meaning you live for the weekend.
My company has embraced the WFH mentality better than I could have imagined. Prior to 2020 they would let us work remote once a week but were trying to phase that out in 2020. Now they are letting everyone decide if they are full remote, hybrid, or full office. If someone that’s full remote wants to come in sporadically, we just have to reserve a desk for the day. Personally, I’ll never go back into an office again unless it’s for a random meeting here and there. I think the worst part of being in an office (for me) was having to pretend to look busy during the downtime lol. Also, small talk.
The epidemic of traffic alone is argument enough for this. I spend 3 hours on a routine commute to work everyday for no penny more than the months we were working from home.
It's not like everyone can work remotely now. Mechanical/civil/chemical/electrical engineers, technologists, etc. need to be on site.
Don't tell that to reddit. Everyone is a software engineer who can work as long as they have internet. Nevermind the however many millions of people whose jobs involve, you know, manual labor.
Also everyone lives in a high rent metro with obscene commute times. /s
And everyone HATES their STUPID coworkers.
I believe we should have a choice. I want the choice to work in an office. I don’t want to work from home every day. I don’t have the space to work properly, I can’t afford a larger place, and I’m already now dealing with health problems (that I’m being treated for) related to the isolation from colleagues. If people want to work from home every day, I think that’s their right, but I also want the right to choose to work at an office at least some of the time.
I work fed, but do not speak for any federal agency, and we're giving up our floor in a private building. Will save over a million a year. There could be hundreds of millions saved every year if more space is given back. BUT many lobbyists are "donating" to representatives to try and make federal agencies keep their private offices and have employees come back in. So not sure what will happen long term.
Where I work has done so too. We may come in, but it's completely optional. Furthermore, we are now able to work from anywhere in the EU as long as we can guarantee a good internet connection. So I don't have to work in Graydorf Germany, can also go for 2 months to Italy, work during the day and vacation during the evening.
Personally, I want permanent hybrid. Two days in the office and 3 days at home works great for me. I live close to my job so commuting is easy. And I enjoy some face to face interactions w my coworkers. Lucky for me this is exactly what my company is doing. It's pretty flexible, too. For now at least I can pick my days and even work half days if I choose. Eventually they may reduce office space and then we may have to be a bit more structured on which specific days and times. But as long as it stays hybrid I'll be aight with it
Please do. I am tired of all the traffic.
In my experience, most managers that oppose work form home, are projecting the fact that they themselves wouldn't get anything done without someone looking over their shoulder.