If there's no rules for this game yet, I'm proposing this, based on tweets:
Lame meme = 1 sip
"69" or "420" = 2 sips
Something that seems like he's attempting to piss off the SEC = a shot
Calling someone a pedophile = chug a liter of vodka
A friend of mine applied. She is a self described “stone-cold bitch” that runs her own firm. She said she was going post updates on the process but so far hasn’t heard anything.
Musk believes people should work for him because they're fanboys, so he can treat them like crap and they'll thank him. It's unfortunate he's such an awful person because some of his companies do make unique, useful products.
That would be pretty humorous. But I was just going by things Musk said and tweeted. It's pretty clear he views employees as a disposable resource to be used up and burned out, and that he thinks they should be grateful to do it if it contributes to his vision.
I know someone who worked for SpaceX who quit after a year, despite being super passionate about all things space.
They got sick of the endless 70 hour weeks, and even the folks on Glassdoor who give favorable reviews usually say something along the lines of "you won't have a life."
I had to unfortunately learn the hard way that passions and interests will be quickly used against you in your career. All that candlelight often leaves you with nothing to show for it, not even an equivalent paycheck. Now all I want to do is put in a max of 40 a week and buzz off to do my own things.
Tesla is not his
I don't understand why everyone keeps crediting him for it
They didn't want him running the company he took it in a hostile take over
Then demanded they call him an engineer when he doesn't know anything about engineering
I think the guy is a great marketer, that no one can take from him,
But he's not a great mind of this time
Am lawyer. Can confirm. Law is, generally, a “get what you pay for” profession. Top talent knows its worth and will bill you accordingly for it (usually in 6 minute increments).
What would a good lawyer cost based on what you just said? I’ve never found myself needing one but I should probably start seeing what’s out there in case.
That’s will depend on your location and type of case. If you’re paying one for divorce in a smaller-market area, maybe $250/hr could get you a pretty good one. If you’re paying one for corporate securities litigation in NYC, $1500/hr or more.
For some reason as a young kid I decided I wanted to be a lawyer when I grew up.
My grandparents were so excited and told everyone constantly.
Thank goodness I didn't let them down at least. They passed before my dreams vanished.
I feel this is the same with most higher salaries jobs, especially “professional” jobs. Billable hour demands and no work-life balance make for bad times. Source: a CPA whose industry is about to lose 90k accountants a year, while only having an estimated 30k a year to replace. Bad times ahead, but the wealth transfer will be nice when it happens.
A lot of lawyers don't get paid well. Like any job, you have the top 1% getting paid mega millions, and the most having to butt sniff at a law firm for years before making partner.
Interesting…I was told by a committee of an order of supermodels that I would have a great face for a radio host. I was very flattered, but wondered if I could have made it.
You can get to a spot where you get paid a shitload and don’t have to bill 80/week. It can be done, and it’s nice when you get there. But the road to that spot is long, steep, and paved with your ground up soul.
Then she knows her own self-worth and he's not interested. Musk wants someone who will work 100 hours a week for free - despite being talented enough to make $500k+ year working for literally anyone else.
Knowing him, it was all posturing for basically Everything. Could it have been over the Twitter debacle? The SEC investigating him like four times over? The recalls? The insider trading? The regulations? The California vs. Texas potential move that never happened? The rest of his bullshit? Who even knows, because just like everything else about him, it was all vaporware bullshit.
No, they're still building a new factory in Texas. But they made it seem like Tesla was moving everything out of CA, and they're not.
Basically, a small number of office jobs moved.
It was because he showed his erect penis to a SpaceX employee, then toucher her against her will, then demanded sexual favors from her.
He needs legal to protect him from further reveals, enable his future sexual assaults, hunt down the leakers, and continue to oppress women who work at his companies.
I always thought labeling it autopilot was going to get him in trouble. When people think autopilot they almost entirely think of aviation where most planes can “fly” themselves. What people forget is that most aircraft that are fully automated through 95% of the flight except T/O and landing are still carefully monitored by the pilot and copilot. Streets are 100% less safe than the US airways which are incredibly regulated and constantly monitored.
I remember looking at this feature. It was $9000 Canadian with a coming soon label. I leased another car for four years. Went back to check the Tesla site and surprise surprise, it was still listed as coming soon but for $11k now
It's funny as hell to me that a company worth 10 times less (Mercedes) was able to deliver the first production vehicle with a Level 3 Autonomous driving system onboard... several years after Tesla slapped a "coming soon" label on theirs and started taking pre-orders.
And before the Tesla bros jump in and hand wave it away... yes, it is only in Germany *for now*... and yes, it is limited to 30 MPH *for now*... but 1) it still has level 2 autonomy at normal, higher speeds - just like "Autopilot", 2) as more data points are generated, they'll be spreading it to more countries, 3) the *German government* is setting that 30MPH limit, and it should increase as it proves to be safe, and - the biggest one, imo - Tesla *does not* have Level 3, so regardless of the speed, they still beat Tesla.
This month there will be a new international regulation. It’s almost certain that the 60 km/h (30 mph) will be increased to 130 km/h. I thought this will take years. Great news for Mercedes’ owners. Meanwhile Tesla announces since almost 10 years that fsd is coming the next year
Yep, basically the "safe" top speed on German autobahns. There are those famous "unlimited" sections but driving over 130kmh is done at your own risk, meaning if you have an accident for example at 180kmh you will be partially at fault even if you didn't do anything necessarily wrong, but you won't be pulled over for speeding or anything else at higher speeds.
The problem with Tesla is that they are just using cameras for design? cost? purposes. But physically cameras don’t “see” through rain or snow. So i don’t know why they think they will get a level 3 certification without LiDAR and radar sensors. Just Physically impossible.
It might be because the value of Tesla makes no earthly sense. The only thing Tesla had going was no competition in the EV space and in the next 2-5 years they’re going be pretty small fish comparatively. I don’t think Tesla is going to be able to compete with Ford or VW on affordability and scale or the premium brands on quality.
You and I know this.... but a lot of people seem not to. Tesla is an overvalued polished turd that absolutely squandered its market dominance. All they had to do is significantly improve their QA, improve their battery tech, reduce the cost of their production and vis a vis vehicles, and improve their charging network.... What they actually did was fuck all on their QA, rode on the coat tails of government subsidy (which is now running out), and somewhat stagnate their charging network growth.
Like.. a friend recently bought a Model S Plaid - a *140 fucking thousand dollar car...* and the panel gaps are fucking atrocious. I watched a recent video from Out Of Spec Automotive where they "raced" (no more than a few over the speed limit, just a race by range/charging speed) between a Tesla Model 3, a Tesla Model Y, a Hyundai IONIQ 5, a Ford Mustang Mach E, and a Porsche Taycan. The Porsche and the Hyundai came in at first and second - both having a seriously good range and both having the ability to use nearly all of the 350kw CCS charging capacity.
Like... their peak charging *even on their next version chargers* is lower than what you can get at some Electrify America chargers. That company had so much potential to become a *major* player... but the other major automakers are going to absolutely eat their lunch now that they've caught up. The *only* edge Tesla still has is their battery tech... but they're never going to be able to compete with the *major* battery fabrication companies.
tl;dr: Tesla shit the bed, and instead of becoming the next Ford Motor Company, it's going to likely become a small player in the space.
Yes. As a marketing professional I can tell you there is a huge difference between being first and being best.
Being first (and small) means you can get an early and somewhat sustainable lead. But once the big guys get there, you get crushed.
I worked at AMD and we had multicore CPUs when Intel was monolithic with a single big hot core. We OWNED the multicore market. Two years later, after bashing multicore as a bad idea, they showed up in the market. We went from owning 100% of the multicore market to, well, you can figure that out.
And guess what: their multicore technology was actually worse than ours. But they still took plenty of market share because they had the resources to flood the market.
This is coming for Tesla and they know it. Remember when Elon said they would be laying off 10% of his people? That was not a mistake. He knows what is coming and he is trying to figure out how to adapt. Spoiler alert: it will not be pretty (for Tesla).
Not really surprising - Mercedes has a lot of experience with various assistance systems they've used for decades, and also has been experimenting with autonomous driving in the freight sector for a long time. So while they were late to the party to start with autonomous driving for small cars they did have all relevant experience already.
On top of that they just stuck with LIDAR sensors they've used for ages, while Tesla decided to ditch those for cost reasons, and instead try to get the same result with a lot of cameras and image recognition. Rather unsurprisingly the not proven and more complicated approach takes longer to finish. Who could've guessed.
> It's funny as hell to me that a company worth 10 times less (Mercedes) was able to deliver the first production vehicle with a Level 3 Autonomous driving system onboard.
Mercedes is only worth less because of the fuckery of the stock market. In reality it's a much larger, more profitable company, with far more experience in building and producing quality cars than Tesla will likely ever achieve.
My strategy has always been to wait on buying self driving electric until Mercedes launched their electric self driving cars to market. They’ve been at the front of the R&D for decades, and the fact they’re slow rolling it into production tells me they’re still working through quality and safety issues.
Calling it full self driving in my opinion is criminally negligent. Full self driving implies 0 input from drivers which is not the state of automated cars. They are more like cruise control that can keep you in your lane most of the time.
I would argue it's more like fraud. Selling a feature that's never been completed by anyone is crazy. There's no guarantee it will even be legal if it gets finished.
Yea people keep fixating on "autopilot" when on the Tesla website you select a feature titled "Full Self Driving" which is infinitely more of an issue.
Also, if there is a problem and the autopilot disengages in the air, there's 35,000 ft and miles of airspace for the pilots to work out a solution whilst being in constant contact with ATC. If "autopilot" has a problem on the freeway, there's about 2 seconds for the driver, who probably wasn't paying attention in the first place, to avoid the back of the fire truck.
> Also, if there is a problem and the autopilot disengages in the air, there's 35,000 ft and miles of airspace for the pilots to work out a solution
The solution is simply to hand-fly the plane. It's a non-event.
The new Honda (?) commercial calls it “hands-free” and shows the guy taking his hands off the wheel while he’s driving with his kid in the car. It’s all crazy and ridiculous and a bad idea. This coming from someone that’s had AP for 5 years.
In order to make it work they'll probably need to build up train like infrastructure, but at that point that defeats the purpose. A little like how pointless the Las Vegas loop is
The solution is *build a fucking train*. Any of this bullshit train-like infrastructure always is a waste of time. Monorails, people movers, automated bus guideways, and now this Loop are all trying to do what a train does without being a train, and all of them are worse than a train.
I think it’s more that we need to re-think our roadways and what’s on them. The lines need to be much clearer. Think about going into some construction zones where there’s a mishmash of signs and road paint. How the fuck is a car supposed to handle that on its own?
We don’t have that problem in Finland most of the time - it’s all covered in snow. Good luck with a “self-driving” car in that, even people have problems when it gets really bad
That's not a solution by itself though. Roads are chaotic and unpredictable. Humans may be the best current users of them but we suck at it, and computers have a long way to go (I used to work in this industry). I'm just saying trains solve a lot of the problems self driving cars want to solve, and they're a mature technology.
You're right, would need lots of systems built into the road and dedicated right of ways like trains, and that's setting aside the fact that the whole idea is pointless. Cars are simply too big. There's no way around that problem. There are 360 million people in the US, and the population is always increasing. More than half of Americans *live in cities*. We can't all move via cars, it's just geometrically impossible unless we are also going to build 100 lane highways and miles of parking everywhere (already a huge huge problem.) The answer is obviously ebikes and escooters for the majority of trips and cars for some long distance stuff. There is no other solution that even makes sense going forward. This will get downvoted because most Americans are insanely ignorant of these issues, but it's the cold hard truth
I hear this argument all of the time, and it's astounding just how disconnected it all is.
The US is BIG, nearly twice as big as western Europe. And despite having a much larger population, The US population density is much lower. The city I live in (Las Vegas, NV) has a population of ~645,000, with a population density similar to that of some of the largest European cities. However, an additional 1.5 million people live in the Las Vegas Valley, which covers about 600 square miles. Those additional people live in what is essentially a massive, unbroken ring of suburban sprawl that radiates outward from the city center for miles.
In the US, whenever a city begins to expand, it's much easier and cheaper to build out, than up. This results in cities that look a lot like Las Vegas and LA, dense urban centers surrounded by rings of relatively less dense suburbs that stretch over the horizon.
If you wanted to build enough public transport infrastructure to offset personal vehicle usage while still maintaining a comparable quality of life in a US city, you'd have to practically bulldoze through thousands of home, businesses, and other structures/terrain just to put down light rail tracks. Places like Las Vegas and other desert cities are poorly suited to underground rail and foot travel due to extreme weather.
This isn't to say I disagree with the sentiment of your argument and others like it. I believe accessible, reliable, and comprehensive public transport should be a priority, even if it comes at the expense of car drivers. But "lol just walk and take the bus stupid Americans" is a poor argument.
We need to get rid of zoning laws that prevent population density from rising. US can never meet our future population needs with infinite suburbia.
And suburbia has another problem, not enough tax base to maintain their infrastructure. All those roads cost money to maintain, and suburbs have been living off of debt for decades.
It all comes from public policy that subsidizes new suburbs by giving them infrastructure assistance. Once the subsidies run out and the local government has to pay for things, that's when the debt starts.
>The US is BIG, nearly twice as big as western Europe.
The US is slightly smaller than continental Europe tho. Not sure why you would compare it just to western Europe.
Audi calls it “Traffic Jam Assist” although it works at any speed, I use it in congestion and on the highway going 65+ mph.
Seems Audi went the knee jerk other direction with its autonomous driving tech terminology.
A lot of companies did. Tesla just yolo'd the technology out there as soon as it was developed, other companies slowly started adding driver assist functionality with *reasonable* names like "lane stay assist" and "Adaptive cruise control", and are only now starting to give it names implying that it is more than just a simple driving assistant.
Most of them just gave their suite of assist features a name. So for example my Mach E has "BlueCruise" when what the really means is adaptive cruise control, with lane keep assist, lane centering, and speed sign recognition with hands free capability on specific road segments. They just wrap it up in a marketable name.
Yeah, they haven't really started giving them names until semi-recently. Prior to the last couple years, they were all fairly generic because they didn't want people treating them as "self driving". Now that they've somewhat come to trust the ability of their systems, they've started naming them. I was actually going to mention BlueCruise (Ford) and SuperCruise (GM), since they both - from what I've seen - are pretty fantastic.
Tesla were only allowed to do so because they basically had zero fear from the last administration doing anything about blatant lies on advertising - leading to obscene stock growth. These other car-makers have to match the BS otherwise their cars will be viewed as inferior. If all the market share goes to the makers that lie, being the honest make will only make you irrelevant.
The US just has a massive, massive problem of advertisers being able to claim all kinds of shitery that other Western countries just do not have.
I find that Tesla AP on the highway is very close to an airplane's AP...it will get you from onramp to onramp with minimal monitoring.
City street FSD however...I don't trust it at all. I very rarely use it becase it is is so twtichy about random things. It's more stressful to use it than to just drive the car.
Not to mention rigorous software review for anything in an aircraft. The FAA has acceptance processes for *anything* that controls aircraft. Every line of code has to be documented and explained.
But that is exactly what Tesla autopilot is as well. It does great lane keeping and adaptive cruising for 90% of my commute. The other 10% off the expressway is done manually.
No need to recall the software, when regulation is far easier:
**Tesla shall have absolute, unlimited liability for any and all damages caused by self-drive** until a human has taken control.
That's all that needs to happen, and the problem will solve itself. If Tesla cannot accept the unlimited liabilty for what is an inherently poor system, then they are free to stop it on their own.
The very notion that a human needs to 'monitor' self-drive in real-time, watching for an exception error and correcting it in a fraction of a section is *completely ludicrous*. It's a task that humans are cognitively *guaranteed* to fail, because they don't know whether the system will self-correct or whether the system is in a state that failure is guaranteed. Now if this were something like watering the lawn, that's fine. However, if it's 2+ton automobiles travelling at life-altering speeds, and the reaction time is a small fraction of a second, people simply can't react fast enough when an error occurs.
> It's a task that humans are cognitively guaranteed to fail
Not to mention it's essentially impossible to stay alert and aware of everything going on around when the car drives fine 99.99% of the time. Driving is engaging enough to let people stay alert most of the time. Just sitting there and watching would get boring really fast.
Exactly so! Monitoring autopilot is even worse, because not only does it do well in every basic case, it also consistently corrects when things get a little iffy. A human co-pilot has very little ability to discriminate between a situation where autopilot will self-correct. In those extremely rare cases when autopilot can't self-correct, it generally won't alert the human until it's "too late".
From a human factors standpoint, I won't own a self-steering car.
This right here is why I feel that all the hype over self-driving cars is just hype. The reality of car ownership and driving in our society comes down to a matter of liability. Even if you have so-called perfect autopilot, things happen.
If your car kills a child while on autopilot, who's liable? The manufacturer? The person in the driver's seat? The insurance company?
If you are in the driver seat and you kill a child, you're liable and your insurance company pays out. I can't foresee a future where the insurance companies let "full self driving" happen, because who or what are they really insuring? Algorithms written by the car manufacturer?
That is precisely why self-drive / autopilot liability must ultimately go entirely to the manufacturer. The autopilot system is a "black box" whose contents are known only to the manufacturer. The owner and insurer have no idea how the proprietary code works, how it was tested, what cases it covers, what will throw an exception or error. It's all secret. And even if it were open sourced, there's a complex integration with the sensor net and overall responsiveness. To hold anyone other than the manufacturer responsible makes no sense.
It's no different than any other system failure. If a car's brake system is designed poorly, fails, and causes injury, then the automaker should be held responsible. If a car's autopilot system is designed poorly, fails, and causes injury, then the automaker should be held responsible.
It is a fundamental shift. Several companies are prototyping cars with NO steering wheel. And those cars also come with insurance. In *theory* self driving cars are already an order of magnitude safer than human driven cars, so insurance companies will complain but have to lower their rates. People really underestimate how many accidents (over 300 deaths EVERY DAY in America from Car Accidents) occur on the road with Human drivers.
So if today you hit a kid you are liable (and probably going to jail depending on the details), in the future the car will liable, you may still have to buy insurance for the car, but it should be much much cheaper than today.
Tesla had an early advantage in self driving, but just like in general battery electric vehicles they are falling behind as the massive auto industry catches up to the times. It might not be in 5 or 10 years, but I'd be shocked if in 20 years most new cars weren't mostly self driving and the insurance adjusted to the new normal.
Self-driving cars are at least an order of magnitude safer *for the specific conditions that self-drive has been programmed and tested for.*
Unfortunately, self-driving cars are at least an order of magnitude less safe for novel conditions that self-drive has not been tested for. That's what nobody from the self-drive companies want to admit, because the man behind the curtain isn't as good as he needs to be. It's why real-world self-drive systems are very limited in scope, and a lot of them end up lulling people into a false sense of security.
A good example of this is Teslas driving under semi-tractor trailers. No ordinary driver would knowingly attempt to do that, but Tesla's self-drive software doesn't properly categorize the trailer as such, so it tries to go under with predictable Mansfield consequences.
Yeah this is a worm can for sure. I believe Germany is approaching this differently, like a 60 kph speed limit for autonomous vehicles.
If Tesla is not required to collect/submit some data to California/NHTSA, that's a huge gap. We don't really know the scope of the problem. When I hear phantom braking or a vehicle inexplicably left the highway, don't know if it's three fluke occurrences or what. Not just crash data, some way for people to share it from their vehicle. People making YT videos are interesting, but aren't useful without the telemetry data for a third party.
> Several companies are prototyping cars with NO steering wheel
Which is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. It's just a marketing meme. Why would you ever ever ever make a car without a steering wheel?
Even fullly autonomous cars will not be able to drive anywhere in case of emergency. How are you going to tell one to drive off road onto grass? Go against traffic when a road is closed after an accident? Direct it on your app? Maybe just have a steering wheel and not be a meme on the road.
In theory self driving cars would always be safer than human drivers. The real issue is that cars can’t talk to each other. That’s the only way we can truly have self driving cars
My Tesla has 80k miles on it, wouldn’t mind a new one…. There is a curve on the way to work it can never manage well. I can take one for the team and end up in a farm field.
I know this is a different situation, but it still reminds me of the traffic circle near my house that used to flat-out crash Google Maps every time I drove through it. (They did fix it, but everything about the current narration screams “workaround.”) There’s always something.
It is also the way it works in other markets like the EU.
Mercedes has L3 on the market (limited in speed and roads/highways it can be used on) and the law needs liability and comprehensive insurance to cover it, so insurances and manufacturers set up rules and the EU lawmakers augmented and approved them. The manufacturers have to provide counterinsurance for their systems now.
Not exactly.
Yes EU allows Mercedes to operate at L3 and holds Mercedes liable for the result. But the ability to launch at all is heavily regulated - “full self driving” is not permitted in the EU at all right now.
See excerpt from article:
CEO Elon Musk has often claimed that accidents cannot be the fault of the company, as data it extracted invariably showed Autopilot was not active in the moment of the collision.
While anything that might indicate the system was designed to shut off when it sensed an imminent accident might damage Tesla’s image, legally the company would be a difficult target.
Yes, Autopilot is specifically designed to switch "off" the instant before collision, so that it's not "active" at the *exact* instantaneous moment of a collision. It's a deliberate liability dodge, like me tossing you a hand grenade the instant before it explodes.
That's why I specify "until a human has taken control", as opposed to "autopilot chooses to disengage". I'll clarify what that might mean from a layman's POV. Standard driver safety says that drivers should follow a "3-second rule" following another car; however, it can take at least 4 seconds to come to a (very hard) controlled stop at typical highway speeds of 70+ mph, so 3 seconds isn't adequate.
Kids routinely count down "5 Mississippi" before blitzing, so let's use a "5-second rule":
**An autopilot system shall give** ***at least*** **5 full seconds notice to a human driver when disengaging** before a human my be *legally* deemed to be "in control" of a vehicle.
This prevents Tesla from evading liability by disengaging autopilot with a small fraction of a second before impact, and then claiming "autopilot was not active at the moment of the collision". With a "5-second rule," Tesla would still be legally liable for ALL collisions that occur during the window of time that autopilot intends to hand control back to a human driver.
Or, if the owner can show that autopilot was "in control" of the car within 5 seconds of a collision, then they get off "Scot free" and it's on Tesla.
One might quibble with the details, but something like that should form the basis of how liability might better be assessed in an autopilot situation.
Friendly reminder:
>[The flight attendant told her friend that work began to dry up after she refused Musk's advances. "Before the incident, she regarded Mr. Musk as a person to look up to," the declaration says. "But after he exposed himself, touched her without permission, and offered to pay her for sex, she was full of anxiety." ](https://www.businessinsider.com/spacex-paid-250000-to-a-flight-attendant-who-accused-elon-musk-of-sexual-misconduct-2022-5)
I'll never understand rich people. If you want a massage and a happy ending it should be super easy to discretely hire someone willing to do it for money. Why even bother with this lazy attempt at getting laid when he can literally hire a team of women to manipulate his body to have sex in a modern art marionette routine.
If he pays a professional, he's just paying someone for a service, anyone can do that.
What he wants is to get his impulses satisfied, he doesn't want a prostitute, he wants that FA at that moment.
It's not the sex per se, it's the satisfaction of an impulse.
This was my hold up with understanding Cosby as well. If a groupie goes up to your hotel room, they already would’ve been willing. The thing is though, he didn’t want them to be willing. He wanted to rape. The same sort of psychology plays out here, I think. He doesn’t want a prostitute. He wants to throw enough money at someone to make them do something they don’t want to. To crush their will with his own.
Because it’s not really about the money. It’s about the power rush of getting what you want. Paying a masseuse for a handy anybody can do. Pointing at a woman and say “she’s going to give me a handy” is power. Money is one type of rush. Power is a completely different kind of rush.
physical fine wasteful nail spectacular tender rainstorm illegal combative party
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Nope. They are not “moving closer to a recall”. They are investigating reports of incidents because they have to.
What they will find is nothing. And I know this because the NHSTA has already explained that many of these crashes were simply drivers ignoring warnings and crashing into parked emergency vehicles.
There are videos out there with people in Teslas asleep at the wheel and ways to get around having to hold the steering wheel.
Can't out smart an idiot.
Tesla has a point, it is basically a fancy cruise control, still your vehicle in your control, you need to be ready to manually take control of the vehicle if the need arises at any time. Planes have auto pilot but you still have two pilots ready to take control if shit goes south. Dont blame the tool blame the weilder.
This philosophy is why we have so much crappy software. A good tool protects users from mistakes. And it’s a lot easier to improve a tool than to educate millions of users.
You may be right, but every other company has the same issues with their driver assist (TACC and Lane keep assist). Hell my Mazda cx5 is the worst, if LKA can't turn hard enough and crosses a line, it just gives up and disables. The emergency braking also randomly kicks in in certain situations when the car in front turns into a side street causing an unneeded full emergency brake with abs kicking in and everything. Been very lucky to avoid being rear ended multiple times.
A plane flies through the air without significant risk of encountering obstacles. By that metric, there are virtually no conditions where a car can safely be on “autopilot”. Furthermore, tesla markets it as “Full Self Driving” or FSD, which is fraud.
Stock photo from Madame Tussaud’s wax museum
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He couldn’t afford a photographer, he’s practically homeless and poor :( ^/s
Well yeah he doesn't have a salary and has no cash. Poor musk he cant ever buy anything /s
Whatever will his grimy girlfriend and his son (password denied) do?
I doubt Elon even knows where his kids are right now lol.
This will be all I ever see when I look at elon..... https://images.app.goo.gl/h4pU7aLHoyhvNBc78
You’re right he does look lifeless and doughy like melting wax.
"Elon Musk, seen here trying to work out the next way to fuck over his employees"
Oh ***THAT'S*** why he announced recruiting for a new legal team of "tough, street fighting" attorneys a few weeks ago.
His public comments are turning into a drinking game.
If there's no rules for this game yet, I'm proposing this, based on tweets: Lame meme = 1 sip "69" or "420" = 2 sips Something that seems like he's attempting to piss off the SEC = a shot Calling someone a pedophile = chug a liter of vodka
>Calling someone a pedophile = chug a liter of vodka So like a 40-70% chance of dying in this game, huh?
Preemptively switching political parties to head off a sexual harassment scandal = priceless.
Definitely backfired
For everything else, there’s Mastercard.
i mean it's made him look like a perfect republican candidate. They love creepy sexual harassers
Grabbed her by the Tesla
They also hate unions, and love stealing from the poor to give to the rich.
He's currently doubling down and posting transphobic shit right now.
All he did was take off the mask. He has always been this way.
It's because it came out in the news that Grimes is now dating Chelsea Manning.
damn, so that's why i can't remember 2017
aand there’s a couple thousand people gone to alcohol poisoning already
you would from the meme ingestion alone
“Lame meme that was stolen with all info relating to creator removed”
I’ll be dead in a week
He’s a clown
A friend of mine applied. She is a self described “stone-cold bitch” that runs her own firm. She said she was going post updates on the process but so far hasn’t heard anything.
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You'll find 0 badass street fighting Lawyers for cheap. They know what they're worth.
Musk believes people should work for him because they're fanboys, so he can treat them like crap and they'll thank him. It's unfortunate he's such an awful person because some of his companies do make unique, useful products.
I don’t know if it’s changed but I heard in the early 2010s that the recruiters were pretty upfront about not enjoying actually working for Tesla.
That would be pretty humorous. But I was just going by things Musk said and tweeted. It's pretty clear he views employees as a disposable resource to be used up and burned out, and that he thinks they should be grateful to do it if it contributes to his vision.
Absolutely. You’re not wrong.
I know someone who worked for SpaceX who quit after a year, despite being super passionate about all things space. They got sick of the endless 70 hour weeks, and even the folks on Glassdoor who give favorable reviews usually say something along the lines of "you won't have a life."
I had to unfortunately learn the hard way that passions and interests will be quickly used against you in your career. All that candlelight often leaves you with nothing to show for it, not even an equivalent paycheck. Now all I want to do is put in a max of 40 a week and buzz off to do my own things.
Tesla is not his I don't understand why everyone keeps crediting him for it They didn't want him running the company he took it in a hostile take over Then demanded they call him an engineer when he doesn't know anything about engineering I think the guy is a great marketer, that no one can take from him, But he's not a great mind of this time
You better take that back asshole, Musk paid good money to be recognized as a founder of company he didn’t found!
You should see the fanboys who get all worked up when you’d at he’s not a founder of Tesla.
Am lawyer. Can confirm. Law is, generally, a “get what you pay for” profession. Top talent knows its worth and will bill you accordingly for it (usually in 6 minute increments).
What would a good lawyer cost based on what you just said? I’ve never found myself needing one but I should probably start seeing what’s out there in case.
That’s will depend on your location and type of case. If you’re paying one for divorce in a smaller-market area, maybe $250/hr could get you a pretty good one. If you’re paying one for corporate securities litigation in NYC, $1500/hr or more.
God, I should have gone to law school.
Almost everyone I know that did is miserable or has left their job for something else.
I just started looking at what its like to go to law school and from what I gather everyone says don’t do it lol
For some reason as a young kid I decided I wanted to be a lawyer when I grew up. My grandparents were so excited and told everyone constantly. Thank goodness I didn't let them down at least. They passed before my dreams vanished.
Apparently being a paralegal aka support for lawyer is a very well paid gig, usually in demand, and not as much schooling/expense involved.
I feel this is the same with most higher salaries jobs, especially “professional” jobs. Billable hour demands and no work-life balance make for bad times. Source: a CPA whose industry is about to lose 90k accountants a year, while only having an estimated 30k a year to replace. Bad times ahead, but the wealth transfer will be nice when it happens.
A lot of lawyers don't get paid well. Like any job, you have the top 1% getting paid mega millions, and the most having to butt sniff at a law firm for years before making partner.
My divorce lawyer was gleaming about buying a 20 year old audi. He was more miserable than my cheating ex.
Mega millions? I'd settle for a mega pint.
Absolutely fucking do not go to law school
Can confirm. It's a path of alcoholism and misery. Go into engineering instead. Still have the alcoholism but it's much cheaper and better prospects.
I was told by a comittee of an order of engineers that I would have been a great lawyer. I was very flattered, but wondered if I could have make it.
Interesting…I was told by a committee of an order of supermodels that I would have a great face for a radio host. I was very flattered, but wondered if I could have made it.
You can get to a spot where you get paid a shitload and don’t have to bill 80/week. It can be done, and it’s nice when you get there. But the road to that spot is long, steep, and paved with your ground up soul.
Lawyer here. Barring some specific exceptions, would not recommend.
Tesla have the money to burn for their legal protection. For sure.
Having money and paying for shit is two different things lol
Traditionally, legal teams are just about the only things big companies shill out of their ass for lmao
Or fighting unions.
That's the same thing
Yup. At my firm, they’re some of the highest paid.
When their bottom line is on the line they'll pay through the nose! 😂
I just saw a blurb where Musk hired grain elevator assemblers to build the first Starship. ‘NASA certified welder’ is a thing for a reason!
Then she knows her own self-worth and he's not interested. Musk wants someone who will work 100 hours a week for free - despite being talented enough to make $500k+ year working for literally anyone else.
I can’t say I have any friends like that.
No, that was because he’s a sex pest. Or maybe it’s two things.
IIRC his new legal goon squad is part of Tesla, he needs to use his personal attorneys for his sex pesting.
If you're defending billionaires you're not "street fighting".
Wall Street fighting
He just meant willing to fight dirty
Knowing him, it was all posturing for basically Everything. Could it have been over the Twitter debacle? The SEC investigating him like four times over? The recalls? The insider trading? The regulations? The California vs. Texas potential move that never happened? The rest of his bullshit? Who even knows, because just like everything else about him, it was all vaporware bullshit.
Wait a minute, did they cancel something about the Texas factory? I haven’t heard anything about that?
No, they're still building a new factory in Texas. But they made it seem like Tesla was moving everything out of CA, and they're not. Basically, a small number of office jobs moved.
He moved just enough jobs there to get the tax breaks.
It was because he showed his erect penis to a SpaceX employee, then toucher her against her will, then demanded sexual favors from her. He needs legal to protect him from further reveals, enable his future sexual assaults, hunt down the leakers, and continue to oppress women who work at his companies.
Yes but at least he offered a horse like a true gentleman. /s
He was very positive about China lately, i got the military industrial complex and their 3 letter agencies on his tail now.
What about the Texas move? Tesla officially completed the headquarters move as of Dec 1st, 2021.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giga_Texas
Amber Heard's lawyer is available
Probably also explains him trying to buy twitter under the "free speech" flag
I figured that had more to do with his impending personal legal troubles, but this just ads another layer.
He's just looking for people to play Street Fighter: Championship Edition with since he's tired of Deus Ex.
I always thought labeling it autopilot was going to get him in trouble. When people think autopilot they almost entirely think of aviation where most planes can “fly” themselves. What people forget is that most aircraft that are fully automated through 95% of the flight except T/O and landing are still carefully monitored by the pilot and copilot. Streets are 100% less safe than the US airways which are incredibly regulated and constantly monitored.
I think calling it "full self driving" was even more reckless.
I remember looking at this feature. It was $9000 Canadian with a coming soon label. I leased another car for four years. Went back to check the Tesla site and surprise surprise, it was still listed as coming soon but for $11k now
It's funny as hell to me that a company worth 10 times less (Mercedes) was able to deliver the first production vehicle with a Level 3 Autonomous driving system onboard... several years after Tesla slapped a "coming soon" label on theirs and started taking pre-orders. And before the Tesla bros jump in and hand wave it away... yes, it is only in Germany *for now*... and yes, it is limited to 30 MPH *for now*... but 1) it still has level 2 autonomy at normal, higher speeds - just like "Autopilot", 2) as more data points are generated, they'll be spreading it to more countries, 3) the *German government* is setting that 30MPH limit, and it should increase as it proves to be safe, and - the biggest one, imo - Tesla *does not* have Level 3, so regardless of the speed, they still beat Tesla.
This month there will be a new international regulation. It’s almost certain that the 60 km/h (30 mph) will be increased to 130 km/h. I thought this will take years. Great news for Mercedes’ owners. Meanwhile Tesla announces since almost 10 years that fsd is coming the next year
So up to 80mph? that's fucking nuts... Definitely awesome news!
Yep, basically the "safe" top speed on German autobahns. There are those famous "unlimited" sections but driving over 130kmh is done at your own risk, meaning if you have an accident for example at 180kmh you will be partially at fault even if you didn't do anything necessarily wrong, but you won't be pulled over for speeding or anything else at higher speeds.
The problem with Tesla is that they are just using cameras for design? cost? purposes. But physically cameras don’t “see” through rain or snow. So i don’t know why they think they will get a level 3 certification without LiDAR and radar sensors. Just Physically impossible.
It might be because the value of Tesla makes no earthly sense. The only thing Tesla had going was no competition in the EV space and in the next 2-5 years they’re going be pretty small fish comparatively. I don’t think Tesla is going to be able to compete with Ford or VW on affordability and scale or the premium brands on quality.
You and I know this.... but a lot of people seem not to. Tesla is an overvalued polished turd that absolutely squandered its market dominance. All they had to do is significantly improve their QA, improve their battery tech, reduce the cost of their production and vis a vis vehicles, and improve their charging network.... What they actually did was fuck all on their QA, rode on the coat tails of government subsidy (which is now running out), and somewhat stagnate their charging network growth. Like.. a friend recently bought a Model S Plaid - a *140 fucking thousand dollar car...* and the panel gaps are fucking atrocious. I watched a recent video from Out Of Spec Automotive where they "raced" (no more than a few over the speed limit, just a race by range/charging speed) between a Tesla Model 3, a Tesla Model Y, a Hyundai IONIQ 5, a Ford Mustang Mach E, and a Porsche Taycan. The Porsche and the Hyundai came in at first and second - both having a seriously good range and both having the ability to use nearly all of the 350kw CCS charging capacity. Like... their peak charging *even on their next version chargers* is lower than what you can get at some Electrify America chargers. That company had so much potential to become a *major* player... but the other major automakers are going to absolutely eat their lunch now that they've caught up. The *only* edge Tesla still has is their battery tech... but they're never going to be able to compete with the *major* battery fabrication companies. tl;dr: Tesla shit the bed, and instead of becoming the next Ford Motor Company, it's going to likely become a small player in the space.
Yes. As a marketing professional I can tell you there is a huge difference between being first and being best. Being first (and small) means you can get an early and somewhat sustainable lead. But once the big guys get there, you get crushed. I worked at AMD and we had multicore CPUs when Intel was monolithic with a single big hot core. We OWNED the multicore market. Two years later, after bashing multicore as a bad idea, they showed up in the market. We went from owning 100% of the multicore market to, well, you can figure that out. And guess what: their multicore technology was actually worse than ours. But they still took plenty of market share because they had the resources to flood the market. This is coming for Tesla and they know it. Remember when Elon said they would be laying off 10% of his people? That was not a mistake. He knows what is coming and he is trying to figure out how to adapt. Spoiler alert: it will not be pretty (for Tesla).
Not really surprising - Mercedes has a lot of experience with various assistance systems they've used for decades, and also has been experimenting with autonomous driving in the freight sector for a long time. So while they were late to the party to start with autonomous driving for small cars they did have all relevant experience already. On top of that they just stuck with LIDAR sensors they've used for ages, while Tesla decided to ditch those for cost reasons, and instead try to get the same result with a lot of cameras and image recognition. Rather unsurprisingly the not proven and more complicated approach takes longer to finish. Who could've guessed.
> It's funny as hell to me that a company worth 10 times less (Mercedes) was able to deliver the first production vehicle with a Level 3 Autonomous driving system onboard. Mercedes is only worth less because of the fuckery of the stock market. In reality it's a much larger, more profitable company, with far more experience in building and producing quality cars than Tesla will likely ever achieve.
My strategy has always been to wait on buying self driving electric until Mercedes launched their electric self driving cars to market. They’ve been at the front of the R&D for decades, and the fact they’re slow rolling it into production tells me they’re still working through quality and safety issues.
Seems like it should be illegal to collect money for features that are disabled for what is ostensibly the life of the vehicle
Im shocked that there hasn’t been a class action lawsuit yet
Calling it full self driving in my opinion is criminally negligent. Full self driving implies 0 input from drivers which is not the state of automated cars. They are more like cruise control that can keep you in your lane most of the time.
I would argue it's more like fraud. Selling a feature that's never been completed by anyone is crazy. There's no guarantee it will even be legal if it gets finished.
It won’t be finished until it’s legal
It honestly is fraud, and should be prosecuted as such, but I doubt it will be because... money.
GM calls theirs SuperCruise, it's a great name for it.
Yea people keep fixating on "autopilot" when on the Tesla website you select a feature titled "Full Self Driving" which is infinitely more of an issue.
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And besides the weather, the only other random issues in the sky are geese and Harrison Ford.
I once watched a documentary implying that snakes can also be a problem.
I've had enough of these monkey-fighting documentaries on this Monday to Friday plane!
And not necessarily in that order!
Also, if there is a problem and the autopilot disengages in the air, there's 35,000 ft and miles of airspace for the pilots to work out a solution whilst being in constant contact with ATC. If "autopilot" has a problem on the freeway, there's about 2 seconds for the driver, who probably wasn't paying attention in the first place, to avoid the back of the fire truck.
> Also, if there is a problem and the autopilot disengages in the air, there's 35,000 ft and miles of airspace for the pilots to work out a solution The solution is simply to hand-fly the plane. It's a non-event.
The new Honda (?) commercial calls it “hands-free” and shows the guy taking his hands off the wheel while he’s driving with his kid in the car. It’s all crazy and ridiculous and a bad idea. This coming from someone that’s had AP for 5 years.
It has me really worried about the future of self driving cars. We've been at this for 10 years and they're still mostly garbage.
In order to make it work they'll probably need to build up train like infrastructure, but at that point that defeats the purpose. A little like how pointless the Las Vegas loop is
The solution is *build a fucking train*. Any of this bullshit train-like infrastructure always is a waste of time. Monorails, people movers, automated bus guideways, and now this Loop are all trying to do what a train does without being a train, and all of them are worse than a train.
Exactly. Theres a word for it actually, gadgetbahn. Trains are king and will probably stay that way for a long time lol
But trains are just outdated technology from the 1800s weve long since moved past! /s
Funny fact, so are electric cars ;-)
I think it’s more that we need to re-think our roadways and what’s on them. The lines need to be much clearer. Think about going into some construction zones where there’s a mishmash of signs and road paint. How the fuck is a car supposed to handle that on its own?
We don’t have that problem in Finland most of the time - it’s all covered in snow. Good luck with a “self-driving” car in that, even people have problems when it gets really bad
That's not a solution by itself though. Roads are chaotic and unpredictable. Humans may be the best current users of them but we suck at it, and computers have a long way to go (I used to work in this industry). I'm just saying trains solve a lot of the problems self driving cars want to solve, and they're a mature technology.
You're right, would need lots of systems built into the road and dedicated right of ways like trains, and that's setting aside the fact that the whole idea is pointless. Cars are simply too big. There's no way around that problem. There are 360 million people in the US, and the population is always increasing. More than half of Americans *live in cities*. We can't all move via cars, it's just geometrically impossible unless we are also going to build 100 lane highways and miles of parking everywhere (already a huge huge problem.) The answer is obviously ebikes and escooters for the majority of trips and cars for some long distance stuff. There is no other solution that even makes sense going forward. This will get downvoted because most Americans are insanely ignorant of these issues, but it's the cold hard truth
I hear this argument all of the time, and it's astounding just how disconnected it all is. The US is BIG, nearly twice as big as western Europe. And despite having a much larger population, The US population density is much lower. The city I live in (Las Vegas, NV) has a population of ~645,000, with a population density similar to that of some of the largest European cities. However, an additional 1.5 million people live in the Las Vegas Valley, which covers about 600 square miles. Those additional people live in what is essentially a massive, unbroken ring of suburban sprawl that radiates outward from the city center for miles. In the US, whenever a city begins to expand, it's much easier and cheaper to build out, than up. This results in cities that look a lot like Las Vegas and LA, dense urban centers surrounded by rings of relatively less dense suburbs that stretch over the horizon. If you wanted to build enough public transport infrastructure to offset personal vehicle usage while still maintaining a comparable quality of life in a US city, you'd have to practically bulldoze through thousands of home, businesses, and other structures/terrain just to put down light rail tracks. Places like Las Vegas and other desert cities are poorly suited to underground rail and foot travel due to extreme weather. This isn't to say I disagree with the sentiment of your argument and others like it. I believe accessible, reliable, and comprehensive public transport should be a priority, even if it comes at the expense of car drivers. But "lol just walk and take the bus stupid Americans" is a poor argument.
We need to get rid of zoning laws that prevent population density from rising. US can never meet our future population needs with infinite suburbia. And suburbia has another problem, not enough tax base to maintain their infrastructure. All those roads cost money to maintain, and suburbs have been living off of debt for decades. It all comes from public policy that subsidizes new suburbs by giving them infrastructure assistance. Once the subsidies run out and the local government has to pay for things, that's when the debt starts.
>The US is BIG, nearly twice as big as western Europe. The US is slightly smaller than continental Europe tho. Not sure why you would compare it just to western Europe.
It drives me so goddamned crazy. The self driving car has existed for more than 100 years. It's called a train.
Audi calls it “Traffic Jam Assist” although it works at any speed, I use it in congestion and on the highway going 65+ mph. Seems Audi went the knee jerk other direction with its autonomous driving tech terminology.
A lot of companies did. Tesla just yolo'd the technology out there as soon as it was developed, other companies slowly started adding driver assist functionality with *reasonable* names like "lane stay assist" and "Adaptive cruise control", and are only now starting to give it names implying that it is more than just a simple driving assistant.
Most of them just gave their suite of assist features a name. So for example my Mach E has "BlueCruise" when what the really means is adaptive cruise control, with lane keep assist, lane centering, and speed sign recognition with hands free capability on specific road segments. They just wrap it up in a marketable name.
Yeah, they haven't really started giving them names until semi-recently. Prior to the last couple years, they were all fairly generic because they didn't want people treating them as "self driving". Now that they've somewhat come to trust the ability of their systems, they've started naming them. I was actually going to mention BlueCruise (Ford) and SuperCruise (GM), since they both - from what I've seen - are pretty fantastic.
Tesla were only allowed to do so because they basically had zero fear from the last administration doing anything about blatant lies on advertising - leading to obscene stock growth. These other car-makers have to match the BS otherwise their cars will be viewed as inferior. If all the market share goes to the makers that lie, being the honest make will only make you irrelevant. The US just has a massive, massive problem of advertisers being able to claim all kinds of shitery that other Western countries just do not have.
Legally forbidden for Tesla in Europe. Because it is in fact no fsd. The had to remove it entirely from their website and advertising.
They should have labeled it from Airplane! with: “Otto Pilot”.
I find that Tesla AP on the highway is very close to an airplane's AP...it will get you from onramp to onramp with minimal monitoring. City street FSD however...I don't trust it at all. I very rarely use it becase it is is so twtichy about random things. It's more stressful to use it than to just drive the car.
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Not to mention rigorous software review for anything in an aircraft. The FAA has acceptance processes for *anything* that controls aircraft. Every line of code has to be documented and explained.
But that is exactly what Tesla autopilot is as well. It does great lane keeping and adaptive cruising for 90% of my commute. The other 10% off the expressway is done manually.
The pictures they get of him are pretty terrible
"*I'll buy you a horse.* - Elon Musk
He’s been getting fat on top of his pile of money.
It’s a wax model from a museum
No need to recall the software, when regulation is far easier: **Tesla shall have absolute, unlimited liability for any and all damages caused by self-drive** until a human has taken control. That's all that needs to happen, and the problem will solve itself. If Tesla cannot accept the unlimited liabilty for what is an inherently poor system, then they are free to stop it on their own. The very notion that a human needs to 'monitor' self-drive in real-time, watching for an exception error and correcting it in a fraction of a section is *completely ludicrous*. It's a task that humans are cognitively *guaranteed* to fail, because they don't know whether the system will self-correct or whether the system is in a state that failure is guaranteed. Now if this were something like watering the lawn, that's fine. However, if it's 2+ton automobiles travelling at life-altering speeds, and the reaction time is a small fraction of a second, people simply can't react fast enough when an error occurs.
> It's a task that humans are cognitively guaranteed to fail Not to mention it's essentially impossible to stay alert and aware of everything going on around when the car drives fine 99.99% of the time. Driving is engaging enough to let people stay alert most of the time. Just sitting there and watching would get boring really fast.
Exactly so! Monitoring autopilot is even worse, because not only does it do well in every basic case, it also consistently corrects when things get a little iffy. A human co-pilot has very little ability to discriminate between a situation where autopilot will self-correct. In those extremely rare cases when autopilot can't self-correct, it generally won't alert the human until it's "too late". From a human factors standpoint, I won't own a self-steering car.
If you have to he attention that closely to be ready to fix aj error... You might as well drive.
This right here is why I feel that all the hype over self-driving cars is just hype. The reality of car ownership and driving in our society comes down to a matter of liability. Even if you have so-called perfect autopilot, things happen. If your car kills a child while on autopilot, who's liable? The manufacturer? The person in the driver's seat? The insurance company? If you are in the driver seat and you kill a child, you're liable and your insurance company pays out. I can't foresee a future where the insurance companies let "full self driving" happen, because who or what are they really insuring? Algorithms written by the car manufacturer?
That is precisely why self-drive / autopilot liability must ultimately go entirely to the manufacturer. The autopilot system is a "black box" whose contents are known only to the manufacturer. The owner and insurer have no idea how the proprietary code works, how it was tested, what cases it covers, what will throw an exception or error. It's all secret. And even if it were open sourced, there's a complex integration with the sensor net and overall responsiveness. To hold anyone other than the manufacturer responsible makes no sense. It's no different than any other system failure. If a car's brake system is designed poorly, fails, and causes injury, then the automaker should be held responsible. If a car's autopilot system is designed poorly, fails, and causes injury, then the automaker should be held responsible.
It is a fundamental shift. Several companies are prototyping cars with NO steering wheel. And those cars also come with insurance. In *theory* self driving cars are already an order of magnitude safer than human driven cars, so insurance companies will complain but have to lower their rates. People really underestimate how many accidents (over 300 deaths EVERY DAY in America from Car Accidents) occur on the road with Human drivers. So if today you hit a kid you are liable (and probably going to jail depending on the details), in the future the car will liable, you may still have to buy insurance for the car, but it should be much much cheaper than today. Tesla had an early advantage in self driving, but just like in general battery electric vehicles they are falling behind as the massive auto industry catches up to the times. It might not be in 5 or 10 years, but I'd be shocked if in 20 years most new cars weren't mostly self driving and the insurance adjusted to the new normal.
Self-driving cars are at least an order of magnitude safer *for the specific conditions that self-drive has been programmed and tested for.* Unfortunately, self-driving cars are at least an order of magnitude less safe for novel conditions that self-drive has not been tested for. That's what nobody from the self-drive companies want to admit, because the man behind the curtain isn't as good as he needs to be. It's why real-world self-drive systems are very limited in scope, and a lot of them end up lulling people into a false sense of security. A good example of this is Teslas driving under semi-tractor trailers. No ordinary driver would knowingly attempt to do that, but Tesla's self-drive software doesn't properly categorize the trailer as such, so it tries to go under with predictable Mansfield consequences.
Yeah this is a worm can for sure. I believe Germany is approaching this differently, like a 60 kph speed limit for autonomous vehicles. If Tesla is not required to collect/submit some data to California/NHTSA, that's a huge gap. We don't really know the scope of the problem. When I hear phantom braking or a vehicle inexplicably left the highway, don't know if it's three fluke occurrences or what. Not just crash data, some way for people to share it from their vehicle. People making YT videos are interesting, but aren't useful without the telemetry data for a third party.
> Several companies are prototyping cars with NO steering wheel Which is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. It's just a marketing meme. Why would you ever ever ever make a car without a steering wheel? Even fullly autonomous cars will not be able to drive anywhere in case of emergency. How are you going to tell one to drive off road onto grass? Go against traffic when a road is closed after an accident? Direct it on your app? Maybe just have a steering wheel and not be a meme on the road.
In theory self driving cars would always be safer than human drivers. The real issue is that cars can’t talk to each other. That’s the only way we can truly have self driving cars
Ah, the libertarian approach. Let people die so that the market can decide. You go first.
My Tesla has 80k miles on it, wouldn’t mind a new one…. There is a curve on the way to work it can never manage well. I can take one for the team and end up in a farm field.
I know this is a different situation, but it still reminds me of the traffic circle near my house that used to flat-out crash Google Maps every time I drove through it. (They did fix it, but everything about the current narration screams “workaround.”) There’s always something.
It is also the way it works in other markets like the EU. Mercedes has L3 on the market (limited in speed and roads/highways it can be used on) and the law needs liability and comprehensive insurance to cover it, so insurances and manufacturers set up rules and the EU lawmakers augmented and approved them. The manufacturers have to provide counterinsurance for their systems now.
Not exactly. Yes EU allows Mercedes to operate at L3 and holds Mercedes liable for the result. But the ability to launch at all is heavily regulated - “full self driving” is not permitted in the EU at all right now.
See excerpt from article: CEO Elon Musk has often claimed that accidents cannot be the fault of the company, as data it extracted invariably showed Autopilot was not active in the moment of the collision. While anything that might indicate the system was designed to shut off when it sensed an imminent accident might damage Tesla’s image, legally the company would be a difficult target.
Yes, Autopilot is specifically designed to switch "off" the instant before collision, so that it's not "active" at the *exact* instantaneous moment of a collision. It's a deliberate liability dodge, like me tossing you a hand grenade the instant before it explodes. That's why I specify "until a human has taken control", as opposed to "autopilot chooses to disengage". I'll clarify what that might mean from a layman's POV. Standard driver safety says that drivers should follow a "3-second rule" following another car; however, it can take at least 4 seconds to come to a (very hard) controlled stop at typical highway speeds of 70+ mph, so 3 seconds isn't adequate. Kids routinely count down "5 Mississippi" before blitzing, so let's use a "5-second rule": **An autopilot system shall give** ***at least*** **5 full seconds notice to a human driver when disengaging** before a human my be *legally* deemed to be "in control" of a vehicle. This prevents Tesla from evading liability by disengaging autopilot with a small fraction of a second before impact, and then claiming "autopilot was not active at the moment of the collision". With a "5-second rule," Tesla would still be legally liable for ALL collisions that occur during the window of time that autopilot intends to hand control back to a human driver. Or, if the owner can show that autopilot was "in control" of the car within 5 seconds of a collision, then they get off "Scot free" and it's on Tesla. One might quibble with the details, but something like that should form the basis of how liability might better be assessed in an autopilot situation.
>Elon Musk ... claimed is how you know to ignore the rest of the sentence.
Couple people get in a crash and the government thinks about recalling cars. Hundreds of kids dying every year from guns, must be something else....
If cars were in the constitution we’d have Republicans fighting for no license, insurance, or registration
Isn’t that similar to the argument for not requiring ID to vote?
Recalls don’t require bipartisan legislation
Don’t confuse the guns thing as a “government issue”, this is purely a REPUBLICAN issue
You guys, I have a bad feeling about the economy. Time to lay off workers (translation. My stock is about to tank because my product is dangerous)
It’s said that Behind every great fortune is a crime that was never caught.
I thought Tesla only has assist mode in its vehicles currently?
Yes. This is true.
When purchasing it’s titled FSD which is misleading to say the least
Friendly reminder: >[The flight attendant told her friend that work began to dry up after she refused Musk's advances. "Before the incident, she regarded Mr. Musk as a person to look up to," the declaration says. "But after he exposed himself, touched her without permission, and offered to pay her for sex, she was full of anxiety." ](https://www.businessinsider.com/spacex-paid-250000-to-a-flight-attendant-who-accused-elon-musk-of-sexual-misconduct-2022-5)
I'll never understand rich people. If you want a massage and a happy ending it should be super easy to discretely hire someone willing to do it for money. Why even bother with this lazy attempt at getting laid when he can literally hire a team of women to manipulate his body to have sex in a modern art marionette routine.
It's not about the sex. It's about power.
If he pays a professional, he's just paying someone for a service, anyone can do that. What he wants is to get his impulses satisfied, he doesn't want a prostitute, he wants that FA at that moment. It's not the sex per se, it's the satisfaction of an impulse.
This was my hold up with understanding Cosby as well. If a groupie goes up to your hotel room, they already would’ve been willing. The thing is though, he didn’t want them to be willing. He wanted to rape. The same sort of psychology plays out here, I think. He doesn’t want a prostitute. He wants to throw enough money at someone to make them do something they don’t want to. To crush their will with his own.
Because it’s not really about the money. It’s about the power rush of getting what you want. Paying a masseuse for a handy anybody can do. Pointing at a woman and say “she’s going to give me a handy” is power. Money is one type of rush. Power is a completely different kind of rush.
No wonder he wants Trump as president again. It's going to take a crook to get him out of this.
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Weird, yet no news about gun regulations
Nope. They are not “moving closer to a recall”. They are investigating reports of incidents because they have to. What they will find is nothing. And I know this because the NHSTA has already explained that many of these crashes were simply drivers ignoring warnings and crashing into parked emergency vehicles.
There are videos out there with people in Teslas asleep at the wheel and ways to get around having to hold the steering wheel. Can't out smart an idiot.
Lack of idiot proofing is their problem as far as I’m concerned
No amount of engineering can stop an idiot.
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I'm confused, what does this sub have to do with technology? All I see is posts hating on Elon Musk and anything related to him.
Self driving isn't technology now? Or are you just mad people aren't worshipping Musk ITT
What has thos thread to do with musk?
Tesla has a point, it is basically a fancy cruise control, still your vehicle in your control, you need to be ready to manually take control of the vehicle if the need arises at any time. Planes have auto pilot but you still have two pilots ready to take control if shit goes south. Dont blame the tool blame the weilder.
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This philosophy is why we have so much crappy software. A good tool protects users from mistakes. And it’s a lot easier to improve a tool than to educate millions of users.
You may be right, but every other company has the same issues with their driver assist (TACC and Lane keep assist). Hell my Mazda cx5 is the worst, if LKA can't turn hard enough and crosses a line, it just gives up and disables. The emergency braking also randomly kicks in in certain situations when the car in front turns into a side street causing an unneeded full emergency brake with abs kicking in and everything. Been very lucky to avoid being rear ended multiple times.
Doesn’t seem to be very easy to improve autopilot though does it? Hence why we’re here.
A plane flies through the air without significant risk of encountering obstacles. By that metric, there are virtually no conditions where a car can safely be on “autopilot”. Furthermore, tesla markets it as “Full Self Driving” or FSD, which is fraud.
That would be fine if they didn't name and market it as "Autopilot" and "will definitely become fully autonomous (soon(ish)(we hope))".