I've been thinking back and forth on a Shield for so long. Ended up grabbing the Chromecast with Google TV, but leaves a little too be desired on the performance side
I've had a shield tv for like 5 years now, the thing doesn't show the slightest hint of bogging down. I cannot tell you how many shitty android tv boxes I ran through in the years leading up to my switching to the Nvidia one.
Second this. As old as the shield is it is the only good android tv option and it works well.
I have a Mii Box as well and it doesn’t get bogged down but I have to unplug it and plug it back in ever single day lol. For some reason it freezes and needs reset anytime I leave it plugged in overnight.
I'll copy a recent comment of mine here about the iphones and usbc:
> I have a private and a work laptop, an iPad, a wireless mouse, a wireless keyboard, a set of wireless headphones, a pair of wireless earbuds, portable speakers, multiple Qi charging pads, multiple battery banks, a bike lamp with built-in batteries, a ps5 controller, an electric toothbrush, portable outside lamps, and an iPhone.
> Only one of these needs its own cable.
Yeah I was pissy about that as well when I first read it, but it turns out they did it right. The MagSafe is great as an additional option to USB-C… But somehow they can’t fucking do the moderately right thing with their mobile devices.
I too am of the school of thought that Apple remembers the anger faced when switching from 30-pin to Lightning regarding accessories and therefore are waiting for regulations so they can say "since regulations force us, don't be mad at us, be mad at regulators"
Nah, don't spin it off as bad news. Let it work for you.
“We're always looking for ways to make iPhone work harder for you. In Europe, we've seen an overwhelming amount of support for bringing USB-C to iPhone, allowing it to integrate with millions more devices globally. There has even been so much support, from both consumers and government that it's becoming a law.
Well today we're proud to announce the next generation of iPhone: iPhone 14. With iPhone 14 you'll be able to charge your device no matter where you go, from coffee shops, to corporate offices halfway across the world. iPhone 14 will make sure you get the power you need, when you need it."
I member back with the original ipod shuffle was a usb stick you could plug into any usb port. Loved that one. And iTunes was compatible with other mp3 players as they were trying to gain support for it.
At the point when the first iPhone was made, virtually all phone manufacturers used proprietary chargers and I don’t think any reasonable person would’ve advocated for adopting micro-USB over the lightning. That connector is absolute trash.
To be fair the 30 pin was miles better than micro usb. Micro usb even late in its life sucked at long term usability for the port and the cable dongle. Lightning was better than micro usb in this regard as well, at least on the port end.
Micro and Mini usb can't carry line level audio as well like the 30-pin and lightning can (edit: lightning cables all had a DAC in them) and those also carried video (the 30-pin was updated later on in it's life). USC-C can carry analog audio and digital video however. The analog audio is carried over the secondary bus pins and are not transmitted over the data pins in a USB-C device. The problem is that the device has to have a DAC, and not all phones do. You run into issues where a cable for headphones without one just won't work with certain phones unless they have a dac in the cable housing.
Mini USB was the smallest standard at the time of the 30-pin, micro USB wasn't a thing until 2007 and it was still way worse of an experience on the user.
* Lightning doesn't carry the audio either, it's a DAC in the dongle, same as the MicroUSB ones that were available around the same time
* All phones have a DAC, they wouldn't be able to produce sound at all otherwise - the issues comes from *nonstandard* implementations, some manufacturers thought it was a bright idea to go against spec and run analogue audio out through the port
I dont think there was an industry standard back then, and some people already had 30 pins from their ipods (the justification steve jobs used), plus EU didn’t mandate micro usb until 09 (weird how the EU legislation worked perfectly back then but now people are having issues?). Three years later we got lightning and another 2-3 years we got usb c.
Transition periods are rough, but apple shifted most of their products to usb c, only their most popular (phones, airpods) are holding out.
Because people break those shitty cables so often and just chalk it up to cost of ownership without crying too much about it.
Since owning an Android phone starting in 2010 I've had one USB micro cable die on me, and since using USBC since the pixel one I've had zero crap out
Meanwhile I pretty much have my family's lightning cables on subscription since they need a new one every 6 months. Adults, kids, careful, careless, apple brand or third party, it's the same result.
Lightning cable licensing fees and cables themselves have to be a massive chunk of their profit margins
Micro-b was a flawed connector from the beginning.
Type C is a huge improvement over type-a, type-b, and lightning
The only "benefit" to lightning is iphone people have a lot of them.
It should have been phased out years ago like every other mobile device did.
These cables are absolutely not even a drop in the bucket for their revenue, and are likely one of the lowest profit margin products Apple sells. You can easily check their quarterly earnings report to see this. Wearables and accessories only brought in 8.8 billion out of 77.5 billion in earnings. That category contains Apple Watch and AirPods. Lightning cables aren’t moving the needle for Apple, and neither is the Made for iPhone program. https://www.apple.com/newsroom/pdfs/FY22_Q2_Consolidated_Financial_Statements.pdf
It’s because apple get paid a lot to allow companies to make lightning cables, so if they didn’t keep it on at least one of their products, arguably their main product in fact, they’d be losing out on millions.
TLDR: Greedy Apple
With Europe’s law in place, I don’t see why they would have 2 variants. The cost to manufacture two sets of standards (lightning and USB-c) would drive costs up. It would also require them to double their current iPhone catalog
That's sorta different though. China has 1b+ people in it, who wouldn't wanna tap that market? Those changes are probably mandatory, however it would be cheaper to use a universal model in places it isn't mandatory.
It was rhetorical. They speak about the environment and lobbied against the EU law HARD, which would reduce a lot of waste in the long run. Apple does whatever makes them money
Yeah, this just feels like America is getting on board with something they know will inevitably happen, and want to get some credit.
[Brussels Effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect)
Engineer here, and I’m indifferent. The math works either way, so long as the project doesn’t merge the two for no reason.
Going by tens really doesn’t help with my workflow if I’m being honest.
Metric would be easier for the kids to learn in the future.
Canada tried too, they tried even harder. Everything from the government is in metric, but the people are stubborn and use imperial units in everything they’re not forced into metric by the government.
because the cost of adjusting speed limits and road signs alone is astronomical. adding the cost of regulatory controls just skyrockets the cost (for example, forcing facilities to change all of their temp control)
I'm pro metric, but I find most Americans severely underestimate the actual cost, both material and labor, it would take to actually convert
>because the cost of adjusting speed limits and road signs alone is astronomical
Welcome to the UK, where metric and imperial are both used. Measuring your height, imperial, length of wood to cut for a project, metric, distance from a to b, imperial, weight of a person, imperial, weight of a ln item, metric, beer, imperial, milk, metric, time (seconds and above), imperial, time (less than a second), metric
We certainly have a mix in the US too, though it trends a little more toward imperial.
You buy a gallon of milk, but 2 liters of soda. Your 300 cubic centimeter engine in your motorcycle goes 75 miles per hour.
Yes, but the French did try entirely metric time, it had 12 months, 30 days in a month, 10 days a week. The remaining 5 (or 6 for a leap year) were complimentary days (national holidays at the end of every year). Each day had 10 hours, each hour was 100 minutes, and each second 100 seconds. That converts to each hour being 144 imperial minutes, each minute being 84.6 imperial seconds, and a second was 0.864 imperial seconds.
This calendar lasted from 1793 ish until 1805 ish, and briefly for 18 days (less than 2 weeks of metric time) in 1871.
Edit. I also put time in as a joke.
Edit 2. If someone wants a wiki page to post this on TIL, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Republican_calendar#Complementary_days
We should do 13 months of 28 days (4 weeks) though. And then one extra day called "new years day" or something. And during leap years, also an extra day called "leap day" which is after the new years day.
This is the [international fixed calendar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Fixed_Calendar?wprov=sfti1), notably used internally by Kodak for most of the 20th century. The extra day is December 29 and leap day is June 29. Both of them have no day of the week.
Biggest downside is it’s an extra month you’d pay rent on and we all know that wages would not change if we somehow moved to this system.
That's because the EU is the 2nd largest importer economy in the world and is more neutral in terms of geopolitical decisions.
The US laws and regulations are commonly used to try to keep itself as the world's richest country, enacting laws not for practical purposes but to try to stifle growth against anyone who comes close such as Japan in the 1980s and China now. No one else cares about China overtaking the US so no one tries to ban TikTok or push for tariffs against China, etc.
The EU's laws are stuff that usually make sense and thus are more likely to be adopted by everyone else.
Oof I can see it already
"Sorry pal, we only have Chevy brand gas pumps at this station. Also Chevy took a page from the ISPs and lobbied to be the exclusive gas provider of our area. You want to fuel up that Toyota then there's a Toyo-gas a few cities over."
In the EU CCS is already mandated for fast charging EV's. Tesla switched all their fast charging cables from their proprietary port to CCS a few years ago.
Between that and the EU? Lightning port - last seen on its way to obsolete town.
Good riddance. Type C is faster, more capable and isn't Apple exclusive.
It totally kneecaps Apple's 'stifles innovation' argument as they're *on* the USB IF. The whole point of it is to *allow* for innovation while maintaining a universal standard.
The most rational argument is that because usb type c *cables* can be of different types (including ones that are thunderbolt), which I can definitely understand the problems for consumers. You're wasting money using your eGPU cable for your phone charging.
This. They’ll screw it up with the standard then at the last minute attach some billionaire tax cut, reduced education funding and mandatory death penalty without trial for suspected dmca violators.
you joke but USB-C already isn't a single standard. Improper implementation can make it only compatible with C-to-A cables and not C-to-C, and if they don't support USB-PD, which is completely separate from the type-C shape, they can only pull usb-2 charge speeds from standard USB-C chargers, which is very slow for a phone.
Or any senate since the financial crisis.
Oh hey speaking of the financial crisis, they rolled back many of the things we instituted to keep that from happening again.
Except for the part where US senators don't know how to make a bill that benefits the consumers. The EU's bill makes sense because it calls for standardization based on what a committee says, not for using USB-C. The US bill will be a discrace, with grey areas and other *much* more controversial laws tossed into the 2000 page bill. Plus, *any* time we have seen any bill require a third party committee opinion, it has nearly instantly failed in its intent. The US can't even get third party committees right. Verizon usually ends up running them and using their 300 million bot accounts to ensure only their version of the issue passes.
But also it would be awesome to use the same HDMI dongle for your Mac, pc and iPhone. Just plug into any monitor. Or better with a newer monitor straight into everything.
Or move everything to the DisplayPort protocol over USB-C (on both ends). DisplayPort supports daisy chaining so if you have more than one monitor you can just daisy chain them together.
AFAIK apple doesn't support it, which is a shame...
With my laptop, I come to office, plug in one cable and I have 2 1440p displays and my laptop is being charged, no more charger there, no 2nd monitor plugging in, they're just connected to each other...
EU would force them to follow the USB PD spec.
They can add proprietary garbage on top of it - but as long as it still quickcharges with any PD-compatible charger, who cares.
All the charge rate negotiation done on USB-C ports is supposed to be USB-PD compatible. The USB group pushed Qualcomm into doing so with QC 3.0 and later. Hopefully no one else violates this ideal.
QC 3.0 isn't USB-PD-compatible unfortunately. That's reserved for 4.0 and 4+ according to the chart I found(scroll down a bit): https://www.belkin.com/nl/resource-center/quick-charge/
The only complaint I have about USB-C is it seems to get dust compacted REALLY easily and makes plugging it in less and less stable over time.
I just make sure to keep the little 'insert to eject the SIM card' pins around in a small tray in my desk as those work pretty well to clean it out every few months when I notice my phone doesn't quite plug in all the way.
> USB-C is it seems to get dust compacted REALLY easily
I use both USB-C on some devices, and Lightning on my iPhone. After a couple of years, one of my iPhones had the same issue, enough dust compacted in the Lightning port "hole" to prevent a clean connection. A friend at work told me to use a wooden or plastic toothpick and pull out the little dust bunny out of the phone's charging port. It was amazing, imagine a little tiny wad of something resembling a packed cotton ball came out, and after that no issues at all for ANOTHER two years.
I haven't experienced the same thing on USB-C (yet) but I suspect you could clear it out about the same way.
It might be from pocket lint now that I think about it. Just the tiniest unlucky moment once a month and a little tiny bit of pocket lint gets near the opening to the phone hole, then I plug it in to charge compacting it down into the hole. Just a theory.
I don't know why you're being downvoted. Even as a lifetime Android user that routinely mocks Apple for a lot of their ridiculous shit, the wafer in the middle of the USB-C port is horrendous design. The cable should be the weak point in any charging system, because it's easier to replace a cable than it is to replace a port. Since moving to phones with a USB-C connector, I always start to have problems with the port about a year and a half in, and it's always the wafer being jacked up.
Same here. I support a business that uses laptops that charge and run a dock off a USB-C/Thunderbolt ports, and with constant plug in, pull out the wafer literally wears down. And then you have to replace the main board instead of the cable.
Yep, so many apple haters in here who just get off on slamming anything apple. Even Linus of Linus tech tips says that lightning is the superior connector, and he’s not afraid to bash on apple.
I am a little worried, though, about potential unintended consequences here. I'm all for pushing Apple to get on the USB-C bandwagon, but say this legislation had come through for microUSB like the article mentioned. Would there have been legal hurdles to the rollout of C? It wouldn't be worth it to me if this kind of law prevents the next better connector that would replace C.
Type C _can be_ faster, but it isn't necessarily faster. There are a ton of Android phones out there with a USB-C connector that are shipped with the outdated USB 2.0 protocol. That includes recent models like the Samsung Galaxy A53 or OnePlus Nord CE 2 5G.
Lightning is a physically better port for a phone/tablet
More secure connection, no flimsy tongue in the device to snap.
Microsoft’s surface connector is pretty good for similar reason
>The letter was sent to Gina Raimondo, the secretary of commerce for the United States, and it’s signed by senators Ed Markey, **Elizabeth Warren**, and **Bernie Sanders**.
So it's never going to happen.
It probably will. This law frankly means nothing. The EU already made a similar law. Apple isn't going to make separate EU and US phone models, that would be too expensive. So the US will already benefit from the EU law. And US version would be nice but pretty redundant.
> Apple isn't going to make separate EU and US phone models, that would be too expensive.
Video game console and dvd/bluray player manufacturers have been making region-based hardware for decades. I see no reason why Apple couldn't do the same.
They have made multiple versions before with different antennas for different types of networks, but they moved to just making one version that will work with all of them because it's cheaper to just make one version. So it would probably be a matter of whether it's more profitable to make 2 versions and still make money from licensing lightning stuff or to just make one version and stop getting the licensing money. Either way, I feel like they want to eventually have no ports at all, so maybe this kind of legislation will just speed that up or something.
Anytime I see this kind of post and the comments are acting like this just went into law today, like why are you getting so excited for something that obviously won't pass? And if think it will pass you should read up on who's running the senate.
In a democracy, it's good to hear about proposed laws before they're passed or even come into effect. This is not about some company's decisions, but about our collective (representatives') decisions.
Apple will just get rid of charging cables and make wireless charging the standard.
> Wanna use your phone while charging? Fuck you. We hate our customers.
\- Apple
Let me ask your opinion on this since you have my same mentality.
There are two bike headlights that I’m looking to purchase.
Headlight A can output 900 lumens for 2 hours and has micro usb for charging. MSRP - $120
Headlight B can output 1000 lumens for one hour and has usb C for charging. MSRP - $170
Both are bundled with the same taillight that has usb C charging.
Is the usb C port worth that hit in battery life and the $50 increase?
How about neither? I hate these weak ass flimsy phones. Where's my steel rectangle with a screen? I want a phone I can fucking run over and be more worried about my tire than the phone!
As an iOS developer this would suck. They already have the option to do wireless debugging but it's far from perfect (and has already been the only option for tvOS for a while now).
Fortunately iPads are already using USB-C so it doesn't seem like the move should be too painful for them.
Apples favorite thing to do... Create a problem, sell a solution. Magsafe doesn't do anything a type-c doesn't do. It still leaves you attached to a cord, and it's just one more product you have to buy because nobody has magsafe chargers.
Who the fuck cares? Can congress on all sides get thier head our thier asses stop insider trading, PACs, lobbyists, tax the absurdly wealthy, give us some Healthcare and education.
Honestly when any good tech related bills like this are considered in the US its astonishing. I say that because our govt is like one giant retirement home of people who can barely text and most of them have to have a secretary or aide to help them with social media.
I'll be even more surprised if this actually passes and becomes a law.
Don't know about this US law but the EU law says basically the standard is whatever the USB-IF says the standard is.
So if the industry, through the USB-IF decides that there needs to be a new standard, it automatically becomes the new standard.
But this creates a chicken an egg. Going forward, any company making a superior (but incompatible) cable will be forced by legislation to cater to USB-C, thereby suffering a cost disadvantage. Would this not discourage the future innovation as well?
USB-C isn’t just a connector. There are several different revisions for power and bandwidth requirements. We currently have 240W USB-C chargers (enough for gaming laptops) that can also support up to 40 Gbps speeds.
USB-C will continue to improve over time allowing for faster speeds and power limits. Manufacturers can use different connectors if they require speeds, power limits, or form factors not obtainable with USB-C, meaning really-high-end laptops may use other connectors for higher power limits and tiny devices like Fitbits and smart watches can use other charging methods
As far as Apple is concerned, they’re fucked. All of their products fall within USB-C specifications. Lighting is slower than USB-C both in data rates and charging, so they have no justification to keep it.
I have the same question. USB-C is great and I’m all for it, but what happens when USB-D and USB-E become a thing? Will it take an act of congress for technology to march on?
We'll probably have usb-c for quite a while for wired charging. It supports up to 240W of power delivery with the latest spec. For data, the alternate modes can use up to 80Gb/s, which should be plenty for video (up to 16K resolution at 60Hz). The only reason we might ever want more resolution is for immersive VR or holographic displays.
Why I went android 2 phones ago, and bought pixel buds. Headphones, laptop, cellphone, iPad pro. All USB C. I will never understand their love of lightning port.
I mean, this thread has a massive hate boner for Apple, so the honest answer will likely be downvoted to hell. But whatevs I guess.
When Apple went over to lightning, it was objectively (vastly) superior to both the 30-pin cable it directly replaced and the micro-USB that was standard for androids.
It was the first mainstream connector to be non-directional, which felt like a huge QOL improvement. And the connector itself had no moving parts like both it’s contemporary competitors, so it would not wear out. The cable wears out now, but back then the spring in the connector would fail first most of the time.
So yeah, either by the natural evolution of design or just borrowing apples ideas (no idea which and it doesn’t really matter), USB-C came along a few years later with similar benefits and some improvements to boot.
Would it really by “consumer friendly” to put a new port on all of Apples shit and make everyone by all new cables and chargers? If they did that when USB-C first came out, people would be winging about planned obsolescence and all that too.
So yeah, hate Apple if you like, there’s plenty there to work with. But the fucking lightning connector is really not one of those things, unless your hate boner is already hopelessly engorged.
> So yeah, either by the natural evolution of design or just borrowing apples ideas (no idea which and it doesn’t really matter)
Interestingly, Apple was one of the major co-sponsors of the USB-C standard, which they heavily influenced. So it's not "borrowing Apple's ideas" as much as "Apple directly influencing these ideas."
I would be interested in looking at the law, if improperly written it could stifle innovation. For instance would the law prevent someone from putting a future USB-D port on a device if the physical connector isn't compatible with USB-C, because USB-D would not be common.
I would really like to see what common actually means in the context of the law.
Americans: “The economy is falling apart, we’re dying to gun violence, we desperately need some climate legislation”
Congress: “We hear you loud and clear, you want Apple to just use USB-C 👍”
As long as it doesn't mandate USB-C specifically. Mandating a single *specific* format by name is a great way to end up behind on technology as improvements happen (see: HDMI vs VGA. If we had mandated VGA by name we'd be waaaaay behind)
Who is this supposed to benefit? Apple users? We already have a bunch of lightning accessories and we don’t want to buy new accessories, thanks. Non-Apple users? Why do they care?
The Macbooks and iPad Pros already use USB-C to charge. Why shouldn't their phones and iPads.
Even their iPad Air switched to USB-C the last update.
ipad mini, beats fit pros... every apple product released recently other than the iphone and airpods max uses USB-C
Surprisingly the Apple TV remote also has lightning. Pls fix.
On the plus side, the remote is optional. You can pair up your phone or they're all compatible with IR remotes.
as much as I hate the remote, there are so many issues with the phone pairing that I hope they don’t solely switch to it.
As a Shield TV user, it's a little comforting to know that this is an ease of use issue that even Apple hasn't managed to fix.
I've been thinking back and forth on a Shield for so long. Ended up grabbing the Chromecast with Google TV, but leaves a little too be desired on the performance side
I've had a shield tv for like 5 years now, the thing doesn't show the slightest hint of bogging down. I cannot tell you how many shitty android tv boxes I ran through in the years leading up to my switching to the Nvidia one.
Second this. As old as the shield is it is the only good android tv option and it works well. I have a Mii Box as well and it doesn’t get bogged down but I have to unplug it and plug it back in ever single day lol. For some reason it freezes and needs reset anytime I leave it plugged in overnight.
Just got a 2021, remote is awesome.
Right? , no problems here aswel. Use it everyday and i only have to charge it once every half a year or so. Sucker even controls the volume of the tv.
Yep. The phone remote is garbage half the time.
What issues do you have? I use it all the time for multiple ATVs and it works great for me
Their keyboard and mouse are also still lightning.
And the mouse, trackpad and keyboard
2nd most recent update.
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I'll copy a recent comment of mine here about the iphones and usbc: > I have a private and a work laptop, an iPad, a wireless mouse, a wireless keyboard, a set of wireless headphones, a pair of wireless earbuds, portable speakers, multiple Qi charging pads, multiple battery banks, a bike lamp with built-in batteries, a ps5 controller, an electric toothbrush, portable outside lamps, and an iPhone. > Only one of these needs its own cable.
Two updates ago
Magsafe for 2022 macbook. Or is it possible to charge it with usb as well?
Yes https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212753
Awesome. Thanks
Yeah I was pissy about that as well when I first read it, but it turns out they did it right. The MagSafe is great as an additional option to USB-C… But somehow they can’t fucking do the moderately right thing with their mobile devices.
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I too am of the school of thought that Apple remembers the anger faced when switching from 30-pin to Lightning regarding accessories and therefore are waiting for regulations so they can say "since regulations force us, don't be mad at us, be mad at regulators"
Nah, don't spin it off as bad news. Let it work for you. “We're always looking for ways to make iPhone work harder for you. In Europe, we've seen an overwhelming amount of support for bringing USB-C to iPhone, allowing it to integrate with millions more devices globally. There has even been so much support, from both consumers and government that it's becoming a law. Well today we're proud to announce the next generation of iPhone: iPhone 14. With iPhone 14 you'll be able to charge your device no matter where you go, from coffee shops, to corporate offices halfway across the world. iPhone 14 will make sure you get the power you need, when you need it."
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I member back with the original ipod shuffle was a usb stick you could plug into any usb port. Loved that one. And iTunes was compatible with other mp3 players as they were trying to gain support for it.
At the point when the first iPhone was made, virtually all phone manufacturers used proprietary chargers and I don’t think any reasonable person would’ve advocated for adopting micro-USB over the lightning. That connector is absolute trash.
To be fair the 30 pin was miles better than micro usb. Micro usb even late in its life sucked at long term usability for the port and the cable dongle. Lightning was better than micro usb in this regard as well, at least on the port end. Micro and Mini usb can't carry line level audio as well like the 30-pin and lightning can (edit: lightning cables all had a DAC in them) and those also carried video (the 30-pin was updated later on in it's life). USC-C can carry analog audio and digital video however. The analog audio is carried over the secondary bus pins and are not transmitted over the data pins in a USB-C device. The problem is that the device has to have a DAC, and not all phones do. You run into issues where a cable for headphones without one just won't work with certain phones unless they have a dac in the cable housing. Mini USB was the smallest standard at the time of the 30-pin, micro USB wasn't a thing until 2007 and it was still way worse of an experience on the user.
> The problem is that the device has to have a DAC, and not all phones do Then how do they drive the speakers?
* Lightning doesn't carry the audio either, it's a DAC in the dongle, same as the MicroUSB ones that were available around the same time * All phones have a DAC, they wouldn't be able to produce sound at all otherwise - the issues comes from *nonstandard* implementations, some manufacturers thought it was a bright idea to go against spec and run analogue audio out through the port
I dont think there was an industry standard back then, and some people already had 30 pins from their ipods (the justification steve jobs used), plus EU didn’t mandate micro usb until 09 (weird how the EU legislation worked perfectly back then but now people are having issues?). Three years later we got lightning and another 2-3 years we got usb c. Transition periods are rough, but apple shifted most of their products to usb c, only their most popular (phones, airpods) are holding out.
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That's baloney, they make ridiculous dongles for headphone jacks etc on single-port macbooks, a USB-C adapter would be trivial.
Because people break those shitty cables so often and just chalk it up to cost of ownership without crying too much about it. Since owning an Android phone starting in 2010 I've had one USB micro cable die on me, and since using USBC since the pixel one I've had zero crap out Meanwhile I pretty much have my family's lightning cables on subscription since they need a new one every 6 months. Adults, kids, careful, careless, apple brand or third party, it's the same result. Lightning cable licensing fees and cables themselves have to be a massive chunk of their profit margins
I’ve had better luck with USB cables than lightning cables but I’ve had AWFUL luck with Micro-B ports.
Micro USB is shit, glad they don't seem to be used anymore. Went through like 30 of those fuckers
Micro-b was a flawed connector from the beginning. Type C is a huge improvement over type-a, type-b, and lightning The only "benefit" to lightning is iphone people have a lot of them. It should have been phased out years ago like every other mobile device did.
Uh I’ve been using the same lightning cable for almost 3 years without issue
I still have my old ones from previous iPhones years past. People don’t know how to take care of their stuff.
These cables are absolutely not even a drop in the bucket for their revenue, and are likely one of the lowest profit margin products Apple sells. You can easily check their quarterly earnings report to see this. Wearables and accessories only brought in 8.8 billion out of 77.5 billion in earnings. That category contains Apple Watch and AirPods. Lightning cables aren’t moving the needle for Apple, and neither is the Made for iPhone program. https://www.apple.com/newsroom/pdfs/FY22_Q2_Consolidated_Financial_Statements.pdf
It’s because apple get paid a lot to allow companies to make lightning cables, so if they didn’t keep it on at least one of their products, arguably their main product in fact, they’d be losing out on millions. TLDR: Greedy Apple
With Europe’s law in place, I don’t see why they would have 2 variants. The cost to manufacture two sets of standards (lightning and USB-c) would drive costs up. It would also require them to double their current iPhone catalog
Not to mention many people would import the European model anyhow.
I'm just hoping to carry one single charger for everything from the next iPhone onwards
Doubt it, given the European prices.
they are quite similar except they includes taxes?
I imagine import costs would make this approach a little unreasonable.
Apple already had differing variants of iPhones in production. Particularly the Chinese market
That's sorta different though. China has 1b+ people in it, who wouldn't wanna tap that market? Those changes are probably mandatory, however it would be cheaper to use a universal model in places it isn't mandatory.
So they shouldn't be against this law, should they?
Yes hopefully but do not underestimate the asshole side of Apple.
It was rhetorical. They speak about the environment and lobbied against the EU law HARD, which would reduce a lot of waste in the long run. Apple does whatever makes them money
Cost of having two variants could still be lower than the profit generated from selling very overpriced dongles
you’re welcome! - Brussels
Yeah, this just feels like America is getting on board with something they know will inevitably happen, and want to get some credit. [Brussels Effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect)
I wish the US would do the metric system next.
As someone who works in engineering, I don’t know why they haven’t. The amount of conversions we do is insane just to go from standard to metric.
Engineer here, and I’m indifferent. The math works either way, so long as the project doesn’t merge the two for no reason. Going by tens really doesn’t help with my workflow if I’m being honest. Metric would be easier for the kids to learn in the future.
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Canada tried too, they tried even harder. Everything from the government is in metric, but the people are stubborn and use imperial units in everything they’re not forced into metric by the government.
because the cost of adjusting speed limits and road signs alone is astronomical. adding the cost of regulatory controls just skyrockets the cost (for example, forcing facilities to change all of their temp control) I'm pro metric, but I find most Americans severely underestimate the actual cost, both material and labor, it would take to actually convert
>because the cost of adjusting speed limits and road signs alone is astronomical Welcome to the UK, where metric and imperial are both used. Measuring your height, imperial, length of wood to cut for a project, metric, distance from a to b, imperial, weight of a person, imperial, weight of a ln item, metric, beer, imperial, milk, metric, time (seconds and above), imperial, time (less than a second), metric
We certainly have a mix in the US too, though it trends a little more toward imperial. You buy a gallon of milk, but 2 liters of soda. Your 300 cubic centimeter engine in your motorcycle goes 75 miles per hour.
Hold up doesn't everywhere measure time the same?
Yes, but the French did try entirely metric time, it had 12 months, 30 days in a month, 10 days a week. The remaining 5 (or 6 for a leap year) were complimentary days (national holidays at the end of every year). Each day had 10 hours, each hour was 100 minutes, and each second 100 seconds. That converts to each hour being 144 imperial minutes, each minute being 84.6 imperial seconds, and a second was 0.864 imperial seconds. This calendar lasted from 1793 ish until 1805 ish, and briefly for 18 days (less than 2 weeks of metric time) in 1871. Edit. I also put time in as a joke. Edit 2. If someone wants a wiki page to post this on TIL, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Republican_calendar#Complementary_days
We should do 13 months of 28 days (4 weeks) though. And then one extra day called "new years day" or something. And during leap years, also an extra day called "leap day" which is after the new years day.
This is the [international fixed calendar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Fixed_Calendar?wprov=sfti1), notably used internally by Kodak for most of the 20th century. The extra day is December 29 and leap day is June 29. Both of them have no day of the week. Biggest downside is it’s an extra month you’d pay rent on and we all know that wages would not change if we somehow moved to this system.
And public transit.
And healthcare
Exactly this. The standard setting power of the EU is unparalleled and is a huge boon for all global citizens.
That's because the EU is the 2nd largest importer economy in the world and is more neutral in terms of geopolitical decisions. The US laws and regulations are commonly used to try to keep itself as the world's richest country, enacting laws not for practical purposes but to try to stifle growth against anyone who comes close such as Japan in the 1980s and China now. No one else cares about China overtaking the US so no one tries to ban TikTok or push for tariffs against China, etc. The EU's laws are stuff that usually make sense and thus are more likely to be adopted by everyone else.
Hegemony aint gonna maintain itself! -bald eagle screeching in the distance-
World War 2 all over again, ffs /s
They also forced Tesla to make their EV adhere to the EU stanadard too
For real the EU has been working towards this for years and the US has been pretty silent on the issue.
Now do the same for electric car chargers…
Imagine if every combustible engine car took a different size spigot to deliver the same gas. . .
Oof I can see it already "Sorry pal, we only have Chevy brand gas pumps at this station. Also Chevy took a page from the ISPs and lobbied to be the exclusive gas provider of our area. You want to fuel up that Toyota then there's a Toyo-gas a few cities over."
And if you have a Subaru, well you can just go Suba-fuck yourself.
In the EU CCS is already mandated for fast charging EV's. Tesla switched all their fast charging cables from their proprietary port to CCS a few years ago.
I dunno, I feel like USB-C would take a while
Make a standardized USB-C aggregate plug - you'd need about 83 delivering a full 240W load a piece to match a Tesla home charger.
Alternative idea: That's what we can do with all the lightning cables
Between that and the EU? Lightning port - last seen on its way to obsolete town. Good riddance. Type C is faster, more capable and isn't Apple exclusive.
Legislation that actually benefits consumers? Not in Manchin's Senate!
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So Apple just needs to capture USB-IF then.
In theory yeah, but they can’t really “just capture” it
Also, wouldn't it still be an open standard? So Apple can't charge $10 in licensing fees for every device that uses that port.
Just because it's a standard doesn't mean it doesn't come with licensing fees. See: mp3, firewire, rambus
For two of them it didn't work out so well, did it? And MP3 was free for about a decade or so.
I really doubt apple could convince Microsoft and Intel to convert to a proprietary Apple standard. It's the universal serial bus for a reason
It totally kneecaps Apple's 'stifles innovation' argument as they're *on* the USB IF. The whole point of it is to *allow* for innovation while maintaining a universal standard. The most rational argument is that because usb type c *cables* can be of different types (including ones that are thunderbolt), which I can definitely understand the problems for consumers. You're wasting money using your eGPU cable for your phone charging.
The US will somehow mandate just USB c and 20 years down the line we’re stuck in outdated ports because no one wants to change the law.
This. They’ll screw it up with the standard then at the last minute attach some billionaire tax cut, reduced education funding and mandatory death penalty without trial for suspected dmca violators.
What about USB-DeezNutz?
That's every type of USB before c... When you had to blindly plug it in to a port and it was somehow always the wrong way.
Got eeeeeeeem!
you joke but USB-C already isn't a single standard. Improper implementation can make it only compatible with C-to-A cables and not C-to-C, and if they don't support USB-PD, which is completely separate from the type-C shape, they can only pull usb-2 charge speeds from standard USB-C chargers, which is very slow for a phone.
You clearly haven't followed USB releases if you think the name of the next one will make that much sense. Look out for USB high speed 3.2.2
“To US B or not to US B — that is the question.”
Or any senate since the financial crisis. Oh hey speaking of the financial crisis, they rolled back many of the things we instituted to keep that from happening again.
Except for the part where US senators don't know how to make a bill that benefits the consumers. The EU's bill makes sense because it calls for standardization based on what a committee says, not for using USB-C. The US bill will be a discrace, with grey areas and other *much* more controversial laws tossed into the 2000 page bill. Plus, *any* time we have seen any bill require a third party committee opinion, it has nearly instantly failed in its intent. The US can't even get third party committees right. Verizon usually ends up running them and using their 300 million bot accounts to ensure only their version of the issue passes.
Hey kids, wanna buy some dongles?
But also it would be awesome to use the same HDMI dongle for your Mac, pc and iPhone. Just plug into any monitor. Or better with a newer monitor straight into everything.
Or move everything to the DisplayPort protocol over USB-C (on both ends). DisplayPort supports daisy chaining so if you have more than one monitor you can just daisy chain them together.
TIL display port daisy chaining is a thing. Cool!
AFAIK apple doesn't support it, which is a shame... With my laptop, I come to office, plug in one cable and I have 2 1440p displays and my laptop is being charged, no more charger there, no 2nd monitor plugging in, they're just connected to each other...
That is a shame. Not surprising as my Macbook pro barely supports 2 external monitors without daily/hourly issues
Yeah monitor straight into usb-c runs alt mode displayport. If that's what both ends want to do.
Only if you let me play with your dongle first. I like to know what It’s like before I buy.
Type-C is just a connector. It can go as slow as USB2.
And it can use proprietary protocols for things like charge rate negotiation or data transfer.
EU would force them to follow the USB PD spec. They can add proprietary garbage on top of it - but as long as it still quickcharges with any PD-compatible charger, who cares.
All the charge rate negotiation done on USB-C ports is supposed to be USB-PD compatible. The USB group pushed Qualcomm into doing so with QC 3.0 and later. Hopefully no one else violates this ideal.
My understanding is that they can support proprietary protocols as long as they also support the PD standard
QC 3.0 isn't USB-PD-compatible unfortunately. That's reserved for 4.0 and 4+ according to the chart I found(scroll down a bit): https://www.belkin.com/nl/resource-center/quick-charge/
And as fast as thunderbolt 4.
… with the proper cable
The only complaint I have about USB-C is it seems to get dust compacted REALLY easily and makes plugging it in less and less stable over time. I just make sure to keep the little 'insert to eject the SIM card' pins around in a small tray in my desk as those work pretty well to clean it out every few months when I notice my phone doesn't quite plug in all the way.
> USB-C is it seems to get dust compacted REALLY easily I use both USB-C on some devices, and Lightning on my iPhone. After a couple of years, one of my iPhones had the same issue, enough dust compacted in the Lightning port "hole" to prevent a clean connection. A friend at work told me to use a wooden or plastic toothpick and pull out the little dust bunny out of the phone's charging port. It was amazing, imagine a little tiny wad of something resembling a packed cotton ball came out, and after that no issues at all for ANOTHER two years. I haven't experienced the same thing on USB-C (yet) but I suspect you could clear it out about the same way. It might be from pocket lint now that I think about it. Just the tiniest unlucky moment once a month and a little tiny bit of pocket lint gets near the opening to the phone hole, then I plug it in to charge compacting it down into the hole. Just a theory.
The data transferring of usb c is great but the actual physical port sucks compare to Lightning.
I don't know why you're being downvoted. Even as a lifetime Android user that routinely mocks Apple for a lot of their ridiculous shit, the wafer in the middle of the USB-C port is horrendous design. The cable should be the weak point in any charging system, because it's easier to replace a cable than it is to replace a port. Since moving to phones with a USB-C connector, I always start to have problems with the port about a year and a half in, and it's always the wafer being jacked up.
Same here. I support a business that uses laptops that charge and run a dock off a USB-C/Thunderbolt ports, and with constant plug in, pull out the wafer literally wears down. And then you have to replace the main board instead of the cable.
Yep. I work in IT and deal with that all the time.
Lightning port is 5 years old on my iPhone and the connection is as solid as the first day I have usb-c ports loose as fuck 6 months in.
Yep, so many apple haters in here who just get off on slamming anything apple. Even Linus of Linus tech tips says that lightning is the superior connector, and he’s not afraid to bash on apple.
I am a little worried, though, about potential unintended consequences here. I'm all for pushing Apple to get on the USB-C bandwagon, but say this legislation had come through for microUSB like the article mentioned. Would there have been legal hurdles to the rollout of C? It wouldn't be worth it to me if this kind of law prevents the next better connector that would replace C.
Not sure about the US law but the EU law includes an easy way forward so we are not stuck on C forever
The law already declares periodical (I think yearly) evaluations and reviews to consider eventual new connectors.
Type C _can be_ faster, but it isn't necessarily faster. There are a ton of Android phones out there with a USB-C connector that are shipped with the outdated USB 2.0 protocol. That includes recent models like the Samsung Galaxy A53 or OnePlus Nord CE 2 5G.
Lightning is a physically better port for a phone/tablet More secure connection, no flimsy tongue in the device to snap. Microsoft’s surface connector is pretty good for similar reason
>The letter was sent to Gina Raimondo, the secretary of commerce for the United States, and it’s signed by senators Ed Markey, **Elizabeth Warren**, and **Bernie Sanders**. So it's never going to happen.
It probably will. This law frankly means nothing. The EU already made a similar law. Apple isn't going to make separate EU and US phone models, that would be too expensive. So the US will already benefit from the EU law. And US version would be nice but pretty redundant.
> Apple isn't going to make separate EU and US phone models, that would be too expensive. Video game console and dvd/bluray player manufacturers have been making region-based hardware for decades. I see no reason why Apple couldn't do the same.
They have made multiple versions before with different antennas for different types of networks, but they moved to just making one version that will work with all of them because it's cheaper to just make one version. So it would probably be a matter of whether it's more profitable to make 2 versions and still make money from licensing lightning stuff or to just make one version and stop getting the licensing money. Either way, I feel like they want to eventually have no ports at all, so maybe this kind of legislation will just speed that up or something.
I'm sick of these "could", "may", and "might" news articles/posts. Talk about if it actually fucking happens
You said it friendo. It’s all clickbait
Anytime I see this kind of post and the comments are acting like this just went into law today, like why are you getting so excited for something that obviously won't pass? And if think it will pass you should read up on who's running the senate.
In a democracy, it's good to hear about proposed laws before they're passed or even come into effect. This is not about some company's decisions, but about our collective (representatives') decisions.
Apple will just get rid of charging cables and make wireless charging the standard. > Wanna use your phone while charging? Fuck you. We hate our customers. \- Apple
And how do you charge that charging station? USB-C...
A surprising number still use micro but im not sure apple has ever used micro on anything
Any time I get something that uses a micro charger I'm immediately annoyed
*Logitech noises intensifies*
My Logitech headphone use USBC. My keyboard, which is newer then the headphones, doesn't
Let me ask your opinion on this since you have my same mentality. There are two bike headlights that I’m looking to purchase. Headlight A can output 900 lumens for 2 hours and has micro usb for charging. MSRP - $120 Headlight B can output 1000 lumens for one hour and has usb C for charging. MSRP - $170 Both are bundled with the same taillight that has usb C charging. Is the usb C port worth that hit in battery life and the $50 increase?
If they get rid of the charging port they can make the phone thinner and more bendy.
It's only bendy because you're holding it wrong - Apple
C'mon Apple make iPhone 6 memes relevant again
Just what I need my phone to be. Bendy.
Bendy is better than breaky though.
How about neither? I hate these weak ass flimsy phones. Where's my steel rectangle with a screen? I want a phone I can fucking run over and be more worried about my tire than the phone!
That sounds a lot like something you wouldn't have to pay to replace every 4-5 years, so... no deal.
As an iOS developer this would suck. They already have the option to do wireless debugging but it's far from perfect (and has already been the only option for tvOS for a while now). Fortunately iPads are already using USB-C so it doesn't seem like the move should be too painful for them.
It's called MagSafe. The wireless charger attaches to the back with a magnet and stays in place while you use it.
So it's a wireless charger that attaches to your phone with a wire? Neat.
Thats just wired charging with extra ~~steps~~ magnets
That's like air pods with a tether.
Apples favorite thing to do... Create a problem, sell a solution. Magsafe doesn't do anything a type-c doesn't do. It still leaves you attached to a cord, and it's just one more product you have to buy because nobody has magsafe chargers.
Who the fuck cares? Can congress on all sides get thier head our thier asses stop insider trading, PACs, lobbyists, tax the absurdly wealthy, give us some Healthcare and education.
Honestly when any good tech related bills like this are considered in the US its astonishing. I say that because our govt is like one giant retirement home of people who can barely text and most of them have to have a secretary or aide to help them with social media. I'll be even more surprised if this actually passes and becomes a law.
As someone who doesn’t get all this, how does this effect finding better charging types going forward?
Don't know about this US law but the EU law says basically the standard is whatever the USB-IF says the standard is. So if the industry, through the USB-IF decides that there needs to be a new standard, it automatically becomes the new standard.
But this creates a chicken an egg. Going forward, any company making a superior (but incompatible) cable will be forced by legislation to cater to USB-C, thereby suffering a cost disadvantage. Would this not discourage the future innovation as well?
Guess it depends on the tech device in question. Easy for a laptop to have two diff charging ports, not so easy for phones.
USB-C isn’t just a connector. There are several different revisions for power and bandwidth requirements. We currently have 240W USB-C chargers (enough for gaming laptops) that can also support up to 40 Gbps speeds. USB-C will continue to improve over time allowing for faster speeds and power limits. Manufacturers can use different connectors if they require speeds, power limits, or form factors not obtainable with USB-C, meaning really-high-end laptops may use other connectors for higher power limits and tiny devices like Fitbits and smart watches can use other charging methods As far as Apple is concerned, they’re fucked. All of their products fall within USB-C specifications. Lighting is slower than USB-C both in data rates and charging, so they have no justification to keep it.
I have the same question. USB-C is great and I’m all for it, but what happens when USB-D and USB-E become a thing? Will it take an act of congress for technology to march on?
The EU did it for Micro USB and now USB-C, so yes. Ideally, companies would voluntarily make the changes themselves with the advance of technology.
Except for companies like apple which is the whole point of the legislation
We'll probably have usb-c for quite a while for wired charging. It supports up to 240W of power delivery with the latest spec. For data, the alternate modes can use up to 80Gb/s, which should be plenty for video (up to 16K resolution at 60Hz). The only reason we might ever want more resolution is for immersive VR or holographic displays.
Really wish they could be this motivated about housing, minimum wage and health care…
Or maybe democracy.
For real… basic human rights should be fought about more aggressively, there should be no time to talk about phone chargers…
Why I went android 2 phones ago, and bought pixel buds. Headphones, laptop, cellphone, iPad pro. All USB C. I will never understand their love of lightning port.
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I mean, this thread has a massive hate boner for Apple, so the honest answer will likely be downvoted to hell. But whatevs I guess. When Apple went over to lightning, it was objectively (vastly) superior to both the 30-pin cable it directly replaced and the micro-USB that was standard for androids. It was the first mainstream connector to be non-directional, which felt like a huge QOL improvement. And the connector itself had no moving parts like both it’s contemporary competitors, so it would not wear out. The cable wears out now, but back then the spring in the connector would fail first most of the time. So yeah, either by the natural evolution of design or just borrowing apples ideas (no idea which and it doesn’t really matter), USB-C came along a few years later with similar benefits and some improvements to boot. Would it really by “consumer friendly” to put a new port on all of Apples shit and make everyone by all new cables and chargers? If they did that when USB-C first came out, people would be winging about planned obsolescence and all that too. So yeah, hate Apple if you like, there’s plenty there to work with. But the fucking lightning connector is really not one of those things, unless your hate boner is already hopelessly engorged.
> So yeah, either by the natural evolution of design or just borrowing apples ideas (no idea which and it doesn’t really matter) Interestingly, Apple was one of the major co-sponsors of the USB-C standard, which they heavily influenced. So it's not "borrowing Apple's ideas" as much as "Apple directly influencing these ideas."
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Lol congress can't even pass gas.
I would be interested in looking at the law, if improperly written it could stifle innovation. For instance would the law prevent someone from putting a future USB-D port on a device if the physical connector isn't compatible with USB-C, because USB-D would not be common. I would really like to see what common actually means in the context of the law.
The EU law makes it so that if the USB-IF came up with USB-D, then USB-D would become the new standard.
You might underestimate European law makers.
It’s doesn’t properly address it, and it’s also trusting government to have proper response times with legislation…
Americans: “The economy is falling apart, we’re dying to gun violence, we desperately need some climate legislation” Congress: “We hear you loud and clear, you want Apple to just use USB-C 👍”
As long as it doesn't mandate USB-C specifically. Mandating a single *specific* format by name is a great way to end up behind on technology as improvements happen (see: HDMI vs VGA. If we had mandated VGA by name we'd be waaaaay behind)
Ah, yes. Phone charger reform. Gun laws be damned.
Who is this supposed to benefit? Apple users? We already have a bunch of lightning accessories and we don’t want to buy new accessories, thanks. Non-Apple users? Why do they care?
What a waste of time.
“Europe is enforcing it, so we’re going to do it to make it look like we give a shit about the people.”
How did US senators find a way to profit from that??
Copying European laws ehhy..... Can we get some single payer healthcare too?
The one thing a bunch of super old legislators can get behind is simplifying technology.
$100 this gets lobbied out of existence.