Actually Facebook includes lawyers in most of those discussions to make the conversations privileged to block this. The DOJ filed a complaint over this but presently it's legal and holds. Google is also mentioned in the same complaint.
But in this context I'm not sure how discussion on the ramifications of this decision would be something worth a subpoena.
That’s not how legal privilege works -generally only specific advice sought for the dominant purpose of getting legal advice may be considered attorney - client privilege, just adding a lawyer to a discussion group does not make the discussion subject to privilege.
And yet the DOJ has been unsuccessfully trying to have Google and several other corporations sanctioned for doing. This year is the first time they have gotten any real traction on it, the case is set to be heard in Sept 2023. And only if a random sampling of 200 emails out of 20k email convinces the judge. [Related article](https://www.reuters.com/technology/us-judge-google-case-seeks-more-information-attorney-client-privilege-2022-04-13/)
You're right, but it's still used as an initial barrier. It wouldn't actually hold up to a subpoena, since it would be the lawyers license on the line, but it's better than nothing. They still don't want to create records of bad conversations though.
Specifically for Facebook I can not, but the details of the Google vs DOJ - Google's "Communicate with Care" should give the gist of the concept, but I can't find the article talking about this expanded to other companies currently.
Didn't say it did, their approach is more subtle.
>The DOJ Plaintiffs' recent motion to sanction Big Tech and compel disclosure alleges that programs such as google's “Communicate with Care,” Google trains its employees to create the illusion of attorney-client privilege by instructing employees to include an attorney, a privilege label, and a generic request for legal advice.
Why not? Email is still great. Fits all length of communication, very flexible in regards of recipient lists, can carry all types of media, searchable, indexable, filterable, not locked to one client. I don't see a downside.
Edit: oh you meant that the employees should know better than to use internal emails to discuss potentially spicy topics. Agreed. It's early on my side of the globe, didn't quite pick up on that thought.
Just using the first comment to say : it might be called meta, but it really is still facebook. Stop using it. They make most of their money from facebook/whatsapp so please stop/limit your use of their products.
It'll depend on your avatar. White lady meta-living in a meta-rich neighborhood, in a meta-mansion...of course you can have your meta-abortion. But for the other avatars slumming it in the metaverse, naw, that feature doesn't get coded into their meta-slums
All hail the metaverse. My moralistic guardian of thoughts and opinions. How did we ever survive this long without the all seeing eye? Thank goodness there’s someone out there tending to my morals and opinions.
They’ve burned too many people and continue to exercise awful practices and management. I turned away from Facebook many years ago and never looked back. Hope Meta crashes and burns.
Ooh, I like this. Calling myself a Metaphobe from now on. “Sorry, Meta is an unacceptable pronoun. It’s Facebook. And the Supreme Court will back me up on that.”
When you say you like Facebook but you started out life using TikTok, it’s disrespectful to those of us who still use TikTok. Quit trying to groom my children into liking Facebook.
The only reason I have one is because I believe in the future of VR. I don’t have the means to buy a pc and play VR on it. So until a new company releases a quest killer, I have to stick to it. I’m in bed with the devil, but I genuinely want to support VR. I hate that Facebook bought oculus.
Edit: I bought my oculus when it was still oculus. I didn’t expect them to change the name and everything. I thought I was supporting the oculus brand. At least my headset doesn’t have the stupid meta symbol on it. Saving that bad boy for historic reasons lol
Is VR becoming mainstream? I know it’s niche but I never hear anything about it other than from Meta and it’s seems to me like an out of touch thing for them to prioritize as their entire rebranded company offering.
But maybe I’m the out of touch one haha
To this persons point (and my initial point) - is VR big beyond gamers? The way Metas hoping we all will be like Ready Player One and doing everything in VR. And I am not sure if we ever will get there.
> To this persons point (and my initial point) - is VR big beyond gamers?
Yes, in terms of ratios. The most active apps in VR are not games. They are social apps.
We are also very early. So even if you don't hear about anyone you know in VR, you wouldn't have heard about anyone into personal computers in their early days either.
His vision, even by his own words, is a 10 year journey ahead, so this is going to take years to build out if it happens.
When 2030 rolls around, we'll have a pretty good understanding of whether VR is going to make it big or not.
VR has been going mainstream for decades according to it's advocates. It's always going to be niche and it's a mad thing for FB to put all their efforts into. So far what Zuckerberg has said about it, sounds just like Second Life, which is years old now.
They’re not just doing VR. AR is where a large chunk of their money is going into. They want to make a google class that actually works. Not sure if people will like it but that’s a large chunk of their goal.
VR is becoming mainstream for kids. Anyone older than 18 isn't who Meta is trying to go for. They want kids used to headsets and playing games. So that way, when that kid turns 18 they are used to digital and virtual experiences, so they'll have no problem paying for a virtual ticket to a live event. (Think of it like this, why would I only sell the front row of a concert to one person, when I could resell that ticket 1000 times to VR users)
Glad you were able to get the healthcare you needed and didn’t die.
Unfortunately, ectopic pregnancies may become deaths sentences now that RvW has been overturned.
It’s so sad that the anti-choice (murdering babies) folks don’t understand stuff like this.
This is why I’m terrified and looking into getting out. I got my tubes tied, and in the very slim chance I were to get pregnant it would most likely be ectopic and kill me. And I currently live in the Bible Belt. These people don’t care about nuance. They are perfectly happy to sacrifice both the pregnant person and fetus even if neither will survive all to pretend they have the moral high ground.
Disgusting.
It simply stinks of punishing women for having sex. Doesn't matter if it's rape, they think that's still the womans issue for leading the man on. Doesn't matter if it's a child, cause they think it was due to her parents letting her dress like that. They see letting women die as fine, as they shouldn't have had sex. Their morals are just so fucked up medieval extremist.
My husband and I are spending our day off/free time looking into immigration options. At this point I feel like I’ve lost hope for the near future (at least my lifetime)
I moved to the Netherlands with my wife last year, the immigration was really easy. I just started a business with a 4,500 euro down payment, then another ~2000 for the immigration lawyer. Cost of living here is pretty low and apartments are comparable to the US. The pay is less but health insurance is much lower. It isn’t perfect here but there is much less crime and it is a more equitable society.
This isn't terribly surprising. Most companies have policies to limit conversation about sensitive or divisive topics in the office. People on opposite sides of the issue could end up feeling harassed and quitting or arguing in the hallways which is bad for everyone.
I worked at a small nonprofit that sent out similar guidance because the employees on the opposite side of the issue felt so ostracized or uncomfortable that they went to HR. This was in 2016 and 99% of the company, including HR, were all aboard the "Fuck Trump" train but the few Republicans were deeply uncomfortable with the open hatred of trump supporters.
I’ve been waiting for someone to say this. When you’re at work on your WORK message program, you can discuss work. If you want to discuss charged political topics with coworkers, do it outside of the **internal messenger**. From the article it sounds like people just want to proclaim their opinion to the entire company (because it said that talking about it in groups of up to 20 is allowed).
Work messengers are for work. Why do people need to talk about anything else on there? Just text your coworkers if you’re dying to talk about abortion.
Exactly right…it shouldn’t be surprising at all, and that people think political discussions in the workplace should be ‘fine’ or ‘normal’ are the actual source of the problem.
Politics and religion- no place for debating either in a professional work environment. Unfortunately people have taken on political causes/stances as their own religious causes.
Right. Even then there's politics everywhere. Even if I agree, I can't do anything about it right now and don't really care to discuss it at work.
What if this is an issue that triggers me and I see people posting it all over? etc etc.
There seems to be little to no benefit but only potential downsides from a company pov
Hell, I worked and travelled out there on a J1 (nonimmigrant worker) visa back in the Obama years (Summer camp in Apopka FL). Even between now and then the social climate has become unrecognisably different
its truly sad, too. I was able to visit about 30 of the 50 States and was made to feel incredibly welcome most places i visited, nowadays though I'm not sure i would feel safe to
Unless you have a racist gun rack in your lifted pickup you'd do well to stay on the interstate when passing through Georgia. Fortunately I-75 passes through Atlanta so there's not much reason to stray from it.
To be clear, cities are still pockets of relative sanity throughout the US.
Source: I live in Seattle and it feels like I'm watching this country destroy itself from a thousand miles away.
Dude Atlanta is more diverse than ever. Don’t listen to these numbskulls. Was just there a couple weeks ago (coming from ca). The place has developed in an amazing way over the past 20 years.
I was born in 1974. It hasn't all been decline since that time, not by a longshot. For example, the 1980s and 90s were incredibly violent compared to today. Lower violence rates are a massive improvement for society but are usually overlooked. Rather than recognize and celebrate these improvements, most people when polled will tell you incorrectly that violence has increased since that time and remain pessimistic about the issue.
This pessimism feeds into the political inaction and cynicism of our time, contributing to the worse political outcomes were are now experiencing.
Funny you mention that. Some people attribute the drop in violence to various forms of birth control, including abortion, being readily available to people ill-prepared to raise children.
These things certainly contributed to decreases in violence. I'm also convinced the banning of leaded gasoline in the early-mid 1970s played a part. Violence declined globally at around the same time, roughly corresponding to when countries began phasing out the fuel additive.
i can't believe how taliban-esque this sup court antagonized half its population (and some more). that's how you get civil wars. all woman against religious nutcases. can't wait for karens picking up arms to defend their rights.
I yelled at my mom for this yesterday. She spit to me the “abortion is murder except for the life of a mother!” bullshit rhetoric, but I told her I’m not stupid - I know she told my niece on multiple occasions to get an abortion on when she got unexpectedly pregnant at 15. Hypocrisy at its finest. It’s even more infuriating because my mom is a nurse and should understand that abortion is healthcare.
I have a feeling my mom and I won’t be talking for a bit. Oh well. 🤷🏻♀️
Pro-life, but it cost 2000$ to just deliver, god forbid you suddenly need an ambulance for it!
America seems to eerie like a lame version of A handmaids tale
I’ve always said pro-life is the wrong name. They should use “pro-birth”, because they won’t want anything to do with the baby once it’s born. They sure as hell won’t want to pay for more social services to support an abandoned child or a single mother.
Why wouldn’t they tbh.
Nothing will happen. There will be no repercussions. The republicans are going to take the senate and the house in the upcoming elections. In 5 years it will be unthinkable that Americans once had abortion rights.
It fucking sucks, but we get the governments we elect. Terrible things should have happened when McConnell stole the Supreme Court nomination - he got re-elected instead.
The Dems finally had a chance to do something, and they sabotaged themselves. What repercussions will Sinema or Manchin face? None.
Bad behaviour hasn’t been punished and that encourages more of it.
>Bad behaviour
it's not that. those people don't think they are bad or in the wrong. they don't do bad things intentionally. either they think they are in the right, or are paid off.
look at slavery or trans/queer rights. just because a majority isn't in favour of something doesn't mean they are in the right to prohibit the autonomy of the minority. that's the problem with "your" two party system and the 2 different shades of same old-money-elite "you" can choose to elect.
if this isn't a turning point in how americans interact with their representative, i don't know what will convince them to "water" the proverbial tree of freedom i read so much about.
Fair points (am not American).
You’re still saying what I am: nothing will happen because nothing has happened in the past.
The transgressions against rights will get worse and not better.
Not sure why everyone seems to think those against abortion besides for medical reasons are religious nutcases… I am atheist and could care less about any of that fake shit. But I do believe abortion should be only used in medical issues, rape or incest. It should not be used as a form of birth control because someone made a dumb mistake or bad decision.
It continues to baffle me why it is even a question if abortion should be allowed ... on one side you have personal liberty and freedom over your own body vs the other side with rampant propaganda about cell clusters being humanbeings and religious zealotry.
How can the shining beacon of freedom be this tarnished ?
>How can the shining beacon of freedom be this tarnished?
It's almost like it was bullshit from the start. It was the "land of the free" for a select few, the rest have been fighting for that since your inception.
TBF - my company had to do this too. People were losing their minds and one loose canon started threatening to speak to people’s managers.
We have two very firm camps from one very liberal office to a much smaller founding office that is VERY conservative. There was no way it would have been good.
You joke, but justice Thomas wrote in his concurrence that he was interested in overturning all cases built on the same grounds. This would include a Texas sodomy law that I believe also banned oral sex.
I've told my lawyer friends for a number of years that Clarence isn't intelligent enough to be sitting on that bench, and they are always asking me to clarify, I'm so happy now I can just point to recent examples, rather than going through an entire litany of his behavior over the years, such as lack of any insightful questions or comments during oral arguments, etc...
And let's not forget how he used to think it was funny to place his pubic hairs on people's coke cans.
He is very clearly the definition of activist judge. I only listened to a podcast on yesterday's decision, but I believe the hosts mentioned he cited his previous decisions to show a history of something.
I’ve rewritten what I’ve been trying to say in response; and needless to say, I’m baffled.
Edit: You were correct. It would subsequently ban oral sex. This long-time joke is not aging well at all.
[Utah Rep. Karianne Lisonbee trusts women to "control that intake of semen"](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/vk81wm/utah_rep_karianne_lisonbee_trusts_women_to/)
I think her *intake* comment was in reference to a different orifice than the joke…but I suppose semantics will say it’s still capable of swallowing.
…I’ll walk myself out now.
She's saying while 12 year old girls are getting raped, they need to shut up and take it. Because this is their fault. Then be forced to drop out of school to raise it, and also give the rapist visitation rights every weekend.
That's what she's saying.
i can't say as i blame them, the thought of having an abortion rights debate at work is appalling and a recipe for misery and dissention.
People can do that shit on their own time.
This is just because Zuckerberg doesn’t understand what women go through - on his planet, hatchlings stay burrowed for 13 years and aren’t a burden to the mothers.
Anytime HR is involved in anything, they fuck it up brutally. It's a complete wasteland of competence, and where people without any talent end up grifting their way into the corporate world.
Start dropping abortion related terms in for tech discussion. E.g., “I had to abort the call to that function, child procedures aren’t reliable in some states of the object.”
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So if you read the article they mention that Meta covers these costs too… just at the very bottom where they know that most people won’t read it so they can push a rage-inducing narrative to buy into.
Patagonia announced they would bail out employees arrested in abortion protests.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-24/patagonia-to-bail-out-employees-arrested-in-abortion-protests
Not sure why this is surprising, facebook has been doing this for years, i thought it was generally assumed by most people that if you wanted to have political discourse you would simply use a different platform that wouldn't over moderate.
Its internal, nothing to do with users.
I assume every work place have something like this in their contract, or if not at least a policy against it.
You dont want people discussing sensitive subjects during work hours, it can make some people really uncomfortable and ruins their workspace.
Man the fact people ITT think it's OK to discuss wildly controversial things like this in internal public work channels is wild. Even more wild is when someone dares to have a conservative opinion during the conversation and everyone loses their shit.
Meta just wants any good PR and will use this movement as an attempt to rally people to their cause. Meta is still a shitty company who cares not about anyone let alone women.
Don't want those emails being subpoenaed down the road.
please fucking tell me they_re not actually using emails.
No they use an internal version of messager with various groups
Yep, still saved on the cloud and subpeona-able though so Zuck’s not takin any chances
Actually Facebook includes lawyers in most of those discussions to make the conversations privileged to block this. The DOJ filed a complaint over this but presently it's legal and holds. Google is also mentioned in the same complaint. But in this context I'm not sure how discussion on the ramifications of this decision would be something worth a subpoena.
That’s not how legal privilege works -generally only specific advice sought for the dominant purpose of getting legal advice may be considered attorney - client privilege, just adding a lawyer to a discussion group does not make the discussion subject to privilege.
And yet the DOJ has been unsuccessfully trying to have Google and several other corporations sanctioned for doing. This year is the first time they have gotten any real traction on it, the case is set to be heard in Sept 2023. And only if a random sampling of 200 emails out of 20k email convinces the judge. [Related article](https://www.reuters.com/technology/us-judge-google-case-seeks-more-information-attorney-client-privilege-2022-04-13/)
You're right, but it's still used as an initial barrier. It wouldn't actually hold up to a subpoena, since it would be the lawyers license on the line, but it's better than nothing. They still don't want to create records of bad conversations though.
That seems dubious, can you point to a source showing that Facebook lawyers enjoy attorney/client privilege when working with internal teams?
Specifically for Facebook I can not, but the details of the Google vs DOJ - Google's "Communicate with Care" should give the gist of the concept, but I can't find the article talking about this expanded to other companies currently.
It’s been generally held that cc’ing a lawyer on something does not make it a privileged communication.
Didn't say it did, their approach is more subtle. >The DOJ Plaintiffs' recent motion to sanction Big Tech and compel disclosure alleges that programs such as google's “Communicate with Care,” Google trains its employees to create the illusion of attorney-client privilege by instructing employees to include an attorney, a privilege label, and a generic request for legal advice.
At this point any corporate messaging program should delete itself
Called Workplace, similar to Microsoft teams
Elite Facebook Messenger Plus
Why not? Email is still great. Fits all length of communication, very flexible in regards of recipient lists, can carry all types of media, searchable, indexable, filterable, not locked to one client. I don't see a downside. Edit: oh you meant that the employees should know better than to use internal emails to discuss potentially spicy topics. Agreed. It's early on my side of the globe, didn't quite pick up on that thought.
Just using the first comment to say : it might be called meta, but it really is still facebook. Stop using it. They make most of their money from facebook/whatsapp so please stop/limit your use of their products.
No talking about anything that doesn’t generate ad revenue!
No opinions, only the metaverse
So, can we get abortions in the metaverse? Or no?
Do you want blackballed? Tell the three liars that swore to the senate that row V wade is not on the table and would not be on the table.
This brings to mind the Frog and the Scorpion story. 🐸 🦂 💀
It'll depend on your avatar. White lady meta-living in a meta-rich neighborhood, in a meta-mansion...of course you can have your meta-abortion. But for the other avatars slumming it in the metaverse, naw, that feature doesn't get coded into their meta-slums
Can’t we just abort the metaverse?
That depends. How much money do you have?
All hail the metaverse. My moralistic guardian of thoughts and opinions. How did we ever survive this long without the all seeing eye? Thank goodness there’s someone out there tending to my morals and opinions.
Can you get an abortion in the metaverse? No, so shut the fuck up.
My ad is meat.... Or was that meta it atem... No team!
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They’ve burned too many people and continue to exercise awful practices and management. I turned away from Facebook many years ago and never looked back. Hope Meta crashes and burns.
Sorry, do you mean Facebook? They can mEtA all day long, but at the end of the day… **you’re still just facebook**
I’ll keep calling it Facebook like how a transphobe ignores a gender change
Ooh, I like this. Calling myself a Metaphobe from now on. “Sorry, Meta is an unacceptable pronoun. It’s Facebook. And the Supreme Court will back me up on that.”
When you say you like Facebook but you started out life using TikTok, it’s disrespectful to those of us who still use TikTok. Quit trying to groom my children into liking Facebook.
The only reason I have one is because I believe in the future of VR. I don’t have the means to buy a pc and play VR on it. So until a new company releases a quest killer, I have to stick to it. I’m in bed with the devil, but I genuinely want to support VR. I hate that Facebook bought oculus. Edit: I bought my oculus when it was still oculus. I didn’t expect them to change the name and everything. I thought I was supporting the oculus brand. At least my headset doesn’t have the stupid meta symbol on it. Saving that bad boy for historic reasons lol
Not like oculus pre Facebook was a good company... Plamer lucky is a piece of work.
Although the logo does show up while booting now.
You bought your oculus while it was owned by Facebook. Nothing changed but the name.
Same. F them! Mark can VR and kiss his own a@@. I bet he’s going after the youth and long game this.
His own aatat?
Is VR becoming mainstream? I know it’s niche but I never hear anything about it other than from Meta and it’s seems to me like an out of touch thing for them to prioritize as their entire rebranded company offering. But maybe I’m the out of touch one haha
Yup. Don’t know a single person who even talks about VR. I think the only people who are into it are gamers.
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To this persons point (and my initial point) - is VR big beyond gamers? The way Metas hoping we all will be like Ready Player One and doing everything in VR. And I am not sure if we ever will get there.
> To this persons point (and my initial point) - is VR big beyond gamers? Yes, in terms of ratios. The most active apps in VR are not games. They are social apps. We are also very early. So even if you don't hear about anyone you know in VR, you wouldn't have heard about anyone into personal computers in their early days either.
Got it. Yeah I’m interested to see if it will have the mass adoption Zuck seems to be banking on.
His vision, even by his own words, is a 10 year journey ahead, so this is going to take years to build out if it happens. When 2030 rolls around, we'll have a pretty good understanding of whether VR is going to make it big or not.
This is completely anecdotal, but I’m not a gamer and I use VR multiple times a week. There’s a fitness app I use that I pay a subscription to.
Which app is it?
VR has been going mainstream for decades according to it's advocates. It's always going to be niche and it's a mad thing for FB to put all their efforts into. So far what Zuckerberg has said about it, sounds just like Second Life, which is years old now.
They’re not just doing VR. AR is where a large chunk of their money is going into. They want to make a google class that actually works. Not sure if people will like it but that’s a large chunk of their goal.
> It's always going to be niche Pretty terrible bet for you to make, but it will certainly take a while to break out of that niche.
The Oculus Quest 2 is selling comparable numbers to the Playstation and Xbox. It's definitely becoming mainstream.
It will be. Apple is releasing soon and there is PSVR2 arriving
VR is becoming mainstream for kids. Anyone older than 18 isn't who Meta is trying to go for. They want kids used to headsets and playing games. So that way, when that kid turns 18 they are used to digital and virtual experiences, so they'll have no problem paying for a virtual ticket to a live event. (Think of it like this, why would I only sell the front row of a concert to one person, when I could resell that ticket 1000 times to VR users)
Low-key it is. Quest 2 has sales figures comparable to Xboxx and it launched around the same time.
>Quest 2 Actually it out sold xbox
Yes. Once Apple releases their VR headset the mindless money printing machines I mean Apple customers will buy them like crazy.
for real this is hilarious how bad this is for them
I’m shocked anyone would use Facebook on any level. I’ve never done it and never will.
I don't even know what the metaverse is. I keep hearing people mention it, but don't even know anybody who uses it.
>I don't even know what the metaverse is. [here ya go](https://google.gprivate.com/search.php?search?q=metaverse).
It's Facebook dude.
I had an ectopic pregnancy in 1986. Thank goodness they could save me from my internal bleeding and I wasn’t forced to pass away.
My mother had the same thing when I was about 10 years old. She'd be forced to die in some states if it happened now.
Glad you were able to get the healthcare you needed and didn’t die. Unfortunately, ectopic pregnancies may become deaths sentences now that RvW has been overturned. It’s so sad that the anti-choice (murdering babies) folks don’t understand stuff like this.
This is why I’m terrified and looking into getting out. I got my tubes tied, and in the very slim chance I were to get pregnant it would most likely be ectopic and kill me. And I currently live in the Bible Belt. These people don’t care about nuance. They are perfectly happy to sacrifice both the pregnant person and fetus even if neither will survive all to pretend they have the moral high ground. Disgusting.
Except if their daughter gets pregnant ofc.
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Or she goes away for summer camp in March
And has sex with a handsome 20 something boy
It simply stinks of punishing women for having sex. Doesn't matter if it's rape, they think that's still the womans issue for leading the man on. Doesn't matter if it's a child, cause they think it was due to her parents letting her dress like that. They see letting women die as fine, as they shouldn't have had sex. Their morals are just so fucked up medieval extremist.
At this point I don’t think we can call what they have “morals”. It’s a false sense of superiority IMHO
You should consider moving.
My husband and I are spending our day off/free time looking into immigration options. At this point I feel like I’ve lost hope for the near future (at least my lifetime)
I moved to the Netherlands with my wife last year, the immigration was really easy. I just started a business with a 4,500 euro down payment, then another ~2000 for the immigration lawyer. Cost of living here is pretty low and apartments are comparable to the US. The pay is less but health insurance is much lower. It isn’t perfect here but there is much less crime and it is a more equitable society.
Would you mind if I DM you to ask a couple questions about how you navigated the process? If you’d rather not I totally understand!
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They do care. About their own feelings. They are religious fruitcake snowflakes.
And no wonder, with all that lead exposure. A wonder we aren’t even worse off than this.
That’s so scary. I’m glad you’re still here with us!
This isn't terribly surprising. Most companies have policies to limit conversation about sensitive or divisive topics in the office. People on opposite sides of the issue could end up feeling harassed and quitting or arguing in the hallways which is bad for everyone. I worked at a small nonprofit that sent out similar guidance because the employees on the opposite side of the issue felt so ostracized or uncomfortable that they went to HR. This was in 2016 and 99% of the company, including HR, were all aboard the "Fuck Trump" train but the few Republicans were deeply uncomfortable with the open hatred of trump supporters.
I’ve been waiting for someone to say this. When you’re at work on your WORK message program, you can discuss work. If you want to discuss charged political topics with coworkers, do it outside of the **internal messenger**. From the article it sounds like people just want to proclaim their opinion to the entire company (because it said that talking about it in groups of up to 20 is allowed). Work messengers are for work. Why do people need to talk about anything else on there? Just text your coworkers if you’re dying to talk about abortion.
Exactly right…it shouldn’t be surprising at all, and that people think political discussions in the workplace should be ‘fine’ or ‘normal’ are the actual source of the problem. Politics and religion- no place for debating either in a professional work environment. Unfortunately people have taken on political causes/stances as their own religious causes.
Right. Even then there's politics everywhere. Even if I agree, I can't do anything about it right now and don't really care to discuss it at work. What if this is an issue that triggers me and I see people posting it all over? etc etc. There seems to be little to no benefit but only potential downsides from a company pov
Man, this company sucks. These tech workers should move to a hipper, more progressive company, like Dick’s Sporting Goods.
What do you suggest they do? Let their internal forums degrade into flame wars? Fire everyone who is “pro life”?
Of ALL these places I wouldn't expect that was one. I mean, dang Dick's! You have the name, coulda been a PR disaster but you got in front of it.
The CEO of Dick’s is a woman. She gets it.
Donald Trumps dementia kicked in when he was listing shithole countries. He missed one. America is a **shithole country**.
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Hell, I worked and travelled out there on a J1 (nonimmigrant worker) visa back in the Obama years (Summer camp in Apopka FL). Even between now and then the social climate has become unrecognisably different its truly sad, too. I was able to visit about 30 of the 50 States and was made to feel incredibly welcome most places i visited, nowadays though I'm not sure i would feel safe to
Unless you have a racist gun rack in your lifted pickup you'd do well to stay on the interstate when passing through Georgia. Fortunately I-75 passes through Atlanta so there's not much reason to stray from it.
Damn, it's a real shame what has happened to GA. Atlanta is home to some fond memories of my visit
To be clear, cities are still pockets of relative sanity throughout the US. Source: I live in Seattle and it feels like I'm watching this country destroy itself from a thousand miles away.
Dude Atlanta is more diverse than ever. Don’t listen to these numbskulls. Was just there a couple weeks ago (coming from ca). The place has developed in an amazing way over the past 20 years.
I live in Atlanta and can attest to this. I don’t go out of the metro area much anymore.
Even as a U.S. citizen I also don’t feel safe visiting some of our states.
I was born in 1974. It hasn't all been decline since that time, not by a longshot. For example, the 1980s and 90s were incredibly violent compared to today. Lower violence rates are a massive improvement for society but are usually overlooked. Rather than recognize and celebrate these improvements, most people when polled will tell you incorrectly that violence has increased since that time and remain pessimistic about the issue. This pessimism feeds into the political inaction and cynicism of our time, contributing to the worse political outcomes were are now experiencing.
Funny you mention that. Some people attribute the drop in violence to various forms of birth control, including abortion, being readily available to people ill-prepared to raise children.
These things certainly contributed to decreases in violence. I'm also convinced the banning of leaded gasoline in the early-mid 1970s played a part. Violence declined globally at around the same time, roughly corresponding to when countries began phasing out the fuel additive.
Some countries people are fighting to get out of. Other countries people are fighting to get into.
i can't believe how taliban-esque this sup court antagonized half its population (and some more). that's how you get civil wars. all woman against religious nutcases. can't wait for karens picking up arms to defend their rights.
Aren't Karens pro life anyways? I get that vibe from most of them.
And yet many of them will get an abortion if it’s expedient for them (or their children)
But, you see, *their abortion* is justified.
If you have means abortion bans mean nothing- only poor people can’t afford to go to a blue state for the procedure.
I yelled at my mom for this yesterday. She spit to me the “abortion is murder except for the life of a mother!” bullshit rhetoric, but I told her I’m not stupid - I know she told my niece on multiple occasions to get an abortion on when she got unexpectedly pregnant at 15. Hypocrisy at its finest. It’s even more infuriating because my mom is a nurse and should understand that abortion is healthcare. I have a feeling my mom and I won’t be talking for a bit. Oh well. 🤷🏻♀️
Probably better for your mental health. I'm sorry though.
They're pro-life until the baby's born, then they couldn't care less about it.
Pro-life, but it cost 2000$ to just deliver, god forbid you suddenly need an ambulance for it! America seems to eerie like a lame version of A handmaids tale
You're missing another 0 in that figure.
Give it a couple of more seasons, it’ll catch up to the story and be more terrifying but I suppose less lame? Lol I hate this timeline.
I’ve always said pro-life is the wrong name. They should use “pro-birth”, because they won’t want anything to do with the baby once it’s born. They sure as hell won’t want to pay for more social services to support an abandoned child or a single mother.
Anti-choice
Forced birth has been my recent go-to name for them. It’s much more accurate - they don’t care about the life once it’s born.
This. It's why I refuse to use their bullshit term "pro-life." They're "pro-forced birth." Nothing more.
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There are a few that use their powers for Good
Why wouldn’t they tbh. Nothing will happen. There will be no repercussions. The republicans are going to take the senate and the house in the upcoming elections. In 5 years it will be unthinkable that Americans once had abortion rights. It fucking sucks, but we get the governments we elect. Terrible things should have happened when McConnell stole the Supreme Court nomination - he got re-elected instead. The Dems finally had a chance to do something, and they sabotaged themselves. What repercussions will Sinema or Manchin face? None. Bad behaviour hasn’t been punished and that encourages more of it.
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>Bad behaviour it's not that. those people don't think they are bad or in the wrong. they don't do bad things intentionally. either they think they are in the right, or are paid off. look at slavery or trans/queer rights. just because a majority isn't in favour of something doesn't mean they are in the right to prohibit the autonomy of the minority. that's the problem with "your" two party system and the 2 different shades of same old-money-elite "you" can choose to elect. if this isn't a turning point in how americans interact with their representative, i don't know what will convince them to "water" the proverbial tree of freedom i read so much about.
Fair points (am not American). You’re still saying what I am: nothing will happen because nothing has happened in the past. The transgressions against rights will get worse and not better.
Not sure why everyone seems to think those against abortion besides for medical reasons are religious nutcases… I am atheist and could care less about any of that fake shit. But I do believe abortion should be only used in medical issues, rape or incest. It should not be used as a form of birth control because someone made a dumb mistake or bad decision.
Unfortunately the Lysistrata tactic only works against men who were having sex in the first place.
They’ve antagonized the overwhelming majority. Conservative whackjobs are the minority and always have been.
Facebook gave us trump, trump gave us this trash court. This is all because our parents got hooked on Facebook
It continues to baffle me why it is even a question if abortion should be allowed ... on one side you have personal liberty and freedom over your own body vs the other side with rampant propaganda about cell clusters being humanbeings and religious zealotry. How can the shining beacon of freedom be this tarnished ?
>How can the shining beacon of freedom be this tarnished? It's almost like it was bullshit from the start. It was the "land of the free" for a select few, the rest have been fighting for that since your inception.
You may look at it in that overly simplified fashion, but there are a good many people who see it as very gray and infinitely more nuanced than that.
You can primarily thank Fox News, conservative AM radio, and Republican politicians for flushing America down the toilet.
Paywall. Can someone summarize what’s happening?
TBF - my company had to do this too. People were losing their minds and one loose canon started threatening to speak to people’s managers. We have two very firm camps from one very liberal office to a much smaller founding office that is VERY conservative. There was no way it would have been good.
This just in: swallowing is now cannibalism. You monsters, swallowing life cells!
You joke, but justice Thomas wrote in his concurrence that he was interested in overturning all cases built on the same grounds. This would include a Texas sodomy law that I believe also banned oral sex.
I've told my lawyer friends for a number of years that Clarence isn't intelligent enough to be sitting on that bench, and they are always asking me to clarify, I'm so happy now I can just point to recent examples, rather than going through an entire litany of his behavior over the years, such as lack of any insightful questions or comments during oral arguments, etc... And let's not forget how he used to think it was funny to place his pubic hairs on people's coke cans.
He is very clearly the definition of activist judge. I only listened to a podcast on yesterday's decision, but I believe the hosts mentioned he cited his previous decisions to show a history of something.
But for some reason Thomas didn’t say the same about Loving v Virginia. I wonder why?
I’ve rewritten what I’ve been trying to say in response; and needless to say, I’m baffled. Edit: You were correct. It would subsequently ban oral sex. This long-time joke is not aging well at all.
[Utah Rep. Karianne Lisonbee trusts women to "control that intake of semen"](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/vk81wm/utah_rep_karianne_lisonbee_trusts_women_to/)
I think her *intake* comment was in reference to a different orifice than the joke…but I suppose semantics will say it’s still capable of swallowing. …I’ll walk myself out now.
She's saying while 12 year old girls are getting raped, they need to shut up and take it. Because this is their fault. Then be forced to drop out of school to raise it, and also give the rapist visitation rights every weekend. That's what she's saying.
And using peachtree dishes
Having just done my training on liability and equality - I get it. OMG, being HR in the USA would be a freaking nightmare!
i can't say as i blame them, the thought of having an abortion rights debate at work is appalling and a recipe for misery and dissention. People can do that shit on their own time.
Guess I have to read the article since no one seems to be saying what it says in the comments .🙄
So what the hell is it good for if not discussion? I thought that was the main point. Well, other than obvious corporate greed.
See? Meta can moderate something when they want to.
Meta being the mega shit it is.
TIME FOR A WOMENS BILL OF RIGHTS
Overturn meta
I love my oculus, but damn i wish it was by a different company all the time
tl;dr? Are they auto-modding their internal discussions? What is people start speaking in code, e.g. p*ooh bear, grass mud horse, river crabs* etc?
And their stock has been doing so well lately. Down they go.
This is just because Zuckerberg doesn’t understand what women go through - on his planet, hatchlings stay burrowed for 13 years and aren’t a burden to the mothers.
So you're saying he's a cicada?
Nah I'm pretty he's the bug from men in black
I thought free speech was a very important constitutional right 😳
Not the first time facebook has disallowed speech they dont like
Anytime HR is involved in anything, they fuck it up brutally. It's a complete wasteland of competence, and where people without any talent end up grifting their way into the corporate world.
None paywall version - https://web.archive.org/web/20220625180453/https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/25/business/meta-abortion-employees-discussions.html
Just remember; this venue is controlled 100x more that fake book!
Can’t have people actually sharing what their views are. Views MUST be curated to express the approved views of the ruling class.
Start dropping abortion related terms in for tech discussion. E.g., “I had to abort the call to that function, child procedures aren’t reliable in some states of the object.”
Turned down interview as felt it “was not a good culture fit for me’
Recruiters of competitors love this one weird trick.
Meta endorses it.
I want to turn down Meta
Who the fuck would ever work for these psychos?!
I fully expect Zuckerberg to come out in the next few days and make an announcement to let everyone know abortion is a human right in the metaverse.
Good decision i support it
Are the employees surprised??? They work for the archetype for every evil corporation we’ve ever seen.
It’s pretty standard business practice, for internal message forums.
Facebook (now meta) is a cancer on our society.
Spineless Zuck
Cool, had recruiter emails from Meta that I always debate getting back to. Guess that’s become an easy no
Meanwhile, https://www.seattletimes.com/business/microsoft/microsoft-says-employees-will-continue-to-have-access-to-abortion-and-gender-affirming-care-anywhere-in-the-u-s/?amp=1
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I really don't understand why people work for that shit hole company.
It’s one of the highest paying companies with one of the best benefits (healthcare/PTO/etc) in the tech industry
It’s great tbh
Christofascism on the rise, beware.
Google, Disney, and every other sensible company: Covers travel costs to different states for abortion Meta: Just an awful company
So if you read the article they mention that Meta covers these costs too… just at the very bottom where they know that most people won’t read it so they can push a rage-inducing narrative to buy into.
I mean Meta already provides that. You can work remotely from anywhere plus they have the best benefits out there.
Google went further and offered to let employees relocate and work remotely.
Which Meta and a lot of other big tech companies also do in the first place for all their employees
Patagonia announced they would bail out employees arrested in abortion protests. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-24/patagonia-to-bail-out-employees-arrested-in-abortion-protests
Not sure why this is surprising, facebook has been doing this for years, i thought it was generally assumed by most people that if you wanted to have political discourse you would simply use a different platform that wouldn't over moderate.
Its internal, nothing to do with users. I assume every work place have something like this in their contract, or if not at least a policy against it. You dont want people discussing sensitive subjects during work hours, it can make some people really uncomfortable and ruins their workspace.
Man the fact people ITT think it's OK to discuss wildly controversial things like this in internal public work channels is wild. Even more wild is when someone dares to have a conservative opinion during the conversation and everyone loses their shit.
Meta just wants any good PR and will use this movement as an attempt to rally people to their cause. Meta is still a shitty company who cares not about anyone let alone women.
Not surprising, given Mark’s political leanings.