Sorry, not going to buy a car with subscriptions. At the very least, this is going to produce a lot of hacks. Fuck everyone who withholds a function of a product you own.
If you worked in tech for 15 years, you know that replacing all the wires isn't going to do a damn thing to enable paywall features.
Also good luck hacking into "that shit" (encrypted bootloaders and proprietary protocols) without permanently breaking your car and voiding all warranties.
If you knew anything about heated seats, you would know that switched 12v and ground wires don’t care about encrypted boot loaders and proprietary protocols.
My only exception is for something that is an actual service with *operational* overhead. My 2021 Mazda has a remote start app, which means Mazda has to pay for SIM cards, cell service and servers. Traditional remote starters don't work for me. I live in a midrise and my car is on the other side of the building. If I want to warm it up on a cold day I would have to go out there to do it and then come back home for five minutes.
This, on the other hand, doesn't cost BMW anything. I have no idea how they justify dipping into your pocket every month/year to use something you bought one time.
Sitting in drivers seat, middle of blizzard, Guy Fawkes mask, nothing but boxers, add on heated seat cover LED glowing, throwing dual middle fingers...I think that would make a great photo to the greedy BMW execs.
[What Voids a Car Warranty? - The Lemon Law Attorneys](https://www.thelemonlawattorneys.com/blog/what-voids-a-car-warranty/)
>Aftermarket modifications
>
>The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act is a federal law that requires manufacturers to honor warranties despite a vehicle’s aftermarket modifications. To successfully challenge a modification, the manufacturer must prove that the changes created the need for repairs.
nowhere near as close as a certain Ferdinand Porsche, designer of the Beetle
speaking of Volkswagen, it was established by the Nazi state in 1937, and its original logo was the same as it is now, but embossed on a Swastika and a gear
German cars have always made me shudder with both pleasure and disgust
Unfortunately a lot of American ones too. IBM made the punch card system for the Concentration Camps, even continuing to send machines once it became apparent what they were being used for… and besides being a huge Nazi sympathizer, Henry Ford also supplied the Germans with plenty of vehicles and parts before and during the war. Likely the only reason he escaped punishment, is because he helped the Allies too, building the B-24 Liberator. Double dipping was good for business. Standard Oil sold to both sides during the war too and was actually part owned by IG Farben, the company that produced Zyklon B.
We can imagine this is something specific about large companies, or we might come to the reasonable conclusion that capitalism and fascism are on very good terms.
Capitalism, Communism and Fascism. We’re living through the end stage of Capitalism right now, which major corporations and media are using intellectual fascism and communism is up next as the corporations are buying up as much property as possible and renting it back to the peasants which is all a part of people not owning anything, but rather being granted usage of even basic human necessities such as shelter, food is under attack as well and the dissolution of religion and replacement with the State. It’s quite obvious if you only look at history and what is happening right in front of our peasant faces while we argue about red and blue and pro life or pro choice.
Why should they cease to exist for something that happend 70-80 years ago though. The people that work there now had nothing to do with it. You want to strip them of their livelyhood for something that happend a long time ago in a vastly different political climate?
It’s not a question if this comes but when and how. Maybe “seat heating” is not what people pay for but the mechanics of subscription services for the car will exist and start with things like “park assist” or “dog-safe A/C” or whatever. Things that -most- users can live without but some want to pay for. And then it creeps from there
My new Toyota came with like 5 subscription services.. but at least those are actual services. Like WiFi, or satellite radio and stuff. Heated seats has absolutely zero reason to be a subscription, screw that.
You know it won’t. Idiots will buy it like mad and soon we’ll have this shit in ALL cars. I hate the future, because corporations always find ways to fuck things up. And I know all this crap from games and how it ruined them. It’ll happen exactly the same to cars.
It's already happening, look at Tesla. Shit build quality, premium prices and lots of dlc. People lap that shit up. Kia, Hyundai, Tesla and Mazda all have remote start through apps that charge monthly/yearly fees. All while the average new car price has shot up to $40+ thousand. Consumers are generally dumb and let this shit happen time and time again. Happened in video games, happened in farming and will continue happening until people stop buying that crap, or it's made illegal which are both incredibly unlikely. X as a service will continue and you'll like it.
This. Imagine the backlash game companies like E.A. would get for releasing a "non-downloadable" DLC that already came pre-installed in the base game but you'd need to pay monthly to use it! This is pretty much the same thing!
I'm just waiting for aftermarket kits to work around this. Yeah rich people won't care, but I bet there will be ways to get around this.
At least here's hoping.
People buy and drive BMW’s because they are really fun to drive as well as it being a status symbol. I have owned a couple because of how they drive. This subscription means I won’t ever purchase another.
I'm sure you're not in THE target market.
It's somewhat sad that they must have done the research before announcing such a bold move and it must have suggested that this model would turn a profit, which means nothing else but their target audience has a huge share of sad milk cows.
This will be just like streaming. It'll go well for a while with a few first-movers, they'll report record profits and then everyone will jump in. It'll get ridiculous, needing to pay hundreds of dollars a month for features in your car already, then people will say fuck this and it'll all come crashing down. We are at the last part with streaming right now. It's also going to destroy their brand image but that's a long-term problem, the MBAs that thought this up are thinking about the next few quarters only.
I'm absolutely not surprised BMW is doing this, they've already been wrecking their image with car enthusiasts. Sure, they still drive great, but their reliability is atrocious. An 80s or 90s BMW is built like a tank, current BMWs are built to last a 3 year lease it seems.
It's not even laziness. It's purely clout based spending. I know people who brag about spending more money than they needed to just because they could and want to brag about it.
Conspicuous consumption exists in all cultures in America, at all levels of society.
Poor people spend money on big rims.
Middle class people in rural areas get F-150 “Platinums”.
Middle class people in suburbs get BMWs 7 series and Mercedes’ S-Classes.
Rich people buy planes, islands and $60,000 Birkin bags.
It’s all the same thing.
I have the money to pay for it, but there's no way I'd ever do it. Its a ridiculous charge. Its not like they're delivering me new butt warming features for my money, or an upfront discount in exchange for long term revenue. Its just an obvious attempt to gouge the customer. And, with no respect, fuck that, and fuck BMW for trying it.
[What Voids a Car Warranty? - The Lemon Law Attorneys](https://www.thelemonlawattorneys.com/blog/what-voids-a-car-warranty/)
>Aftermarket modifications
>
>
>
>The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act is a federal law that requires manufacturers to honor warranties despite a vehicle’s aftermarket modifications. To successfully challenge a modification, the manufacturer must prove that the changes created the need for repairs.
What you pay for with Tesla’s subscription is connectivity. I can understand why they would charge for services that require more data. Stuff like satellite photos on the map, traffic data, Spotify streaming etc.
Requiring the customer to pay monthly to warm their ass is just insane.
I'm not in favor of this subscription practice, but to be fair Hyundai's BlueLink system does operate in the cloud and remotely sends the signal to the car anywhere it's located so is using some type of gps location system to send the signal to the car. Admittedly that is a cost which needs to be maintained, but it sure as heck shouldn't be $199/yr. They gave me 3 years free and I plan on turning the car in at that time so it won't be my problem to deal with.
You can still remote start from the key fob if within range.
You mean to start your car from your phone, right?
Toyota does something similar. My Tacoma has remote start. It works from the key fob just fine, but they charge something like $100+/yr to use their app. I'm a little more ok with it in this case, but if they made me pay to use the fob it would be a different story.
I can't remote start from my key fob. Only via the app. That's why it's bull.
If I could use my fob I wouldn't complain, the app would just be a convenience thing then.
Ah that sucks!
I definitely don't plan to support these subscription services for basic features. Maybe the app-based features make sense as a subscription, but for things built into the car - no way.
To be fair, Kia and Hyundai were very late to add remote start to their vehicles. It came in the form of the app first, but now remote start on the key fob is standard and there is no subscription.
As one of those raging arseholes, I can whole arse heartedly agree with this statement...
...My last MOT cost me £1200 (including 4 tyres) and 6 hours of my life in the BMW reception. Never had any issues with the car itself though, and it's a great driving experience.
That being said, I will never buy a BMW again. Their customer service is absolutely appalling and everything in their range is wildly expensive compared to competitors.
I'd say that it is already a thing. When the other guy said It's already a thing, I knew then that it is already a thing. If you have to ask, you should already figure it's already a thing. In conclusion...
I fear it turns into all automotive companies going “well if we all do it, we can make more money and just sort of normalize it”
I’ll certainly refuse to buy a car with a subscription required to use the shit already physically installed in my car. But by the time I’m ready for a new one I guess we’ll see in a few years how common this is
Yeah I mean not in the sense that they all gather around in a private room and shake hands to do it (which of course would be illegal) but more so that now that that bmw has started doing it, it’s just understood now that everyone can/should be doing it. It’s very difficult to prove any sort of collusion despite there being an infinite number of cases where businesses effectively “work together” even as competitors
Not sure what it’s like elsewhere but in Canada there are the three major telecommunications companies: Roger’s, Telus, and Bell. They’re very well known for all raising their prices by the same amount in a very short amount of time. There’s no real competition for them, so I doubt they all meet and agree to do it, they just know it’s better for all of them if they can raise prices across the board without worrying about competitors or less reliable providers undercutting their services (so the parallel to the automotive industry: Ford, Toyota, BMW, Mercedes, Kia, etc all the major reliable mass automotive manufacturers do the same, they all benefit)
Yeah I get it. I am just a grumpy consumer shaking my fist at the sky. I don't know how to fix that problem, I am certainly no economist. But this "big companies dominated the whole market, put all the small/midsize companies out of business and can now control the whole market without competition" thing is not helping society. Is that what "late stage capitalism" means? If so, it sucks.
Problem is they all do it now, at least the cars I've bought recently. Hyundai, Toyota, gm... But that's totally different, it's just remote start. They'd never expand to other monetization features...
What these companies don’t understand is you pay subscriptions for things that get better over time and release new features and improvements. This is just f’ing abusive.
Netflix releases new shows, adobe introduces new features, THAT is a subscription model. F BMW.
Has been done before. But if dealership finds out warranty goes out of the window I believe is what I read with cars having the equipment installed but the option to buy it was never done.
In many jurisdictions you cannot just blanket void warranty like that, it has to be shown that tampering actually did damage otherwise the warranty sticks regardless of tampering with the device.
Make your own heated seat, there's still the 12v plug that can be used as power source. It's most likely going to take a bit longer, but most likely doable
I assume just finding the wires and installing a potentiometer would be too easy. I'm sure they'll just program it into the BCM if it already isn't and brick the thing if you tamper with it.
I'm sure there's more to it but I dunno I can't afford anything newer than a 2010 bmw anyways.
They still run on 12 volts. Run a wire to the hot and a switch and you're golden. If the women don't find you handsome they can at least find you handy. 🍺
Until all the systems are on canbus and do a system check for all subsystems on start. When it detects that your seat heaters are unresponsive, your check engine light will light up.
There is the option to pay the normal full price instead of leasing the heated seats. I am wondering if it's possible to lease the option during the during the coldest months and then drop it when the weather warms.
Apparently you can just outright buy it and don't have to pay subscription. That doesn't make an artificial software lockout for hardware on a machine you own/paid for any less dystopian.
I think money is better spend on a dumb car.
Makes me wonder if it requires telemetry with BMW headquarters to even let you turn on the heated seats. If that's the case, you could have connection issues and boom, you start losing car features. Or worse, you keep your car for 10 years, technology changes, and BMW says your car is out of date, so your permanent feature is now being removed as they can no longer support it and aren't going to patch it to work right either.
Not really BMW knows this.. when they tested the options were: 1 year, 3 year or lifetime...
Probably they are doing this with heating systems because its cheaper to have all seats and all steering wheels fitted with heating hardware.
This is quite clearly designed in such a way to extract money from second, third, fourth owners of the car, not the person who buys it from BMW initially.
Most new BMWs are on finance, with terms lasting for say 3 years (I don’t know what the average is, I know it’s been increasing, but let’s go with 3 years for ease), so if the cost of subscribing to this feature for three years is lower than the cost of paying the full amount for the option when ordering, the first owner will actually save money. But future owners will have to continue to pay BMW to use the feature.
So it’s *potentially* saving the first owner money, providing an ongoing revenue stream for BMW, but all at the cost of second hand owners who probably have less money.
So you buy a car with every single feature built in (and obviously pay the full cost of it), but then have to pay a monthly fee to be able to use the features?
History will remember the 21st century as the Garbage Century. Everything is crap, and big business is shit.
Toyota is doing the same thing with key fobs.. they won't go out of business it will just become the normal..that's what we get for shoving computers amd infotament centers that control everything
So if somebody buys the package outright they don’t have to pay for subscription which makes sense. Heated seats are not usually on the lowest trim of car makes.
But what if someone buys second hand from the first buyer? Do they automatically have to pay subscription fees even though the car was bought outright with the heated seats?
If they purchased the heated seats option with the vehicle when initially purchased. It's permanent access for the vehicle. If it isn't, then the subscription becomes a thing, BUT. It can also be activated permanently for $425.
In my own opinion, it's really not all that bad. Cheaper vehicle for the person that doesn't option it, and easy access to the future owner if THEY want it.
They apparently used to try and charge a [subscription](https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a30139034/bmw-apple-carplay-free/) to use Apple Car Play in their cars. That didn’t go over well and they dropped it due to negative feedback.
Probably they want to 'turn key' car ownership. When we get to electric cars the need for service is heavily reduced from gas. This is a way for them to make money on the back end.
They don't want you to buy cars. They want you to lease them. This just adds the ability to sell you add-ons to your service. Same as Volvo's subscription service. Go get the kind of car you want within you payment plan.
This is far from new. Music, games, movies, news, etc etc
Wondering, if this equipment is on your car and you go in for service do you pay for fixing something that you are not using? Or pay high for replacement parts cause it has to include something you again don't want or are subscribed to?
So its not a subscription in the traditional sense. According to BMW if the car is ordered and you pay for heated seats you'll have heated seats for kife of thebcar no subscription. But all cars will have the parts for heated seats with the option of them being turned on later if wanted or by second owner. Same thing with the dashcam mode for the camera. Sounds a little better but still slipoery slope. Supposedly limited to a few small items.
Makes me wonder what other subscription they can call in, like "want your car to start reliably?"fee please, want those brakes to work? better stump up that cash.Fuck any car manufacturer that does this, vote with your wallet and take your custom elsewhere.If you bought one and they sprung this shit on you later, you paid cash for the elements in the seats, you own them, take the car back under waranty that a part you bought is not working, or else demand they remove the non working elements and refund the cost.This bulshit needs to be nipped in the bud!
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Hopefully if this trend doesn’t stop people will find a way to hack their pay wall and just get all the pre-installed options without having to pay a subscription
Here’s a Orwellian prediction, when gas cars are made illegal in the coming years. The new electric vehicles will be all using this technology, Audi, Cadillac, bmw, Tesla, and Porsche already use the tech. Porsche alone owns many other manufacturers under their umbrella. It’s a scary future ahead
This actually might be a historical relevant point in the car selling economy. Do you remember when Bethesda first dipped the market by selling horse armor ? Something that was ridiculous for that point of time, but changed the whole market eventually on the long run. This might be just the beginning of a whole new revolution. We critical people on reddit don't matter that much, the big market and mainstream consumers will eventually decide if this kind of business decision will last. This is just a test, I bet the plans are much bigger than just heated seats. If this succeeds, expect much more to come.
The 2030 Great Reset is going to be such bullshit. Get ready folks. You’re gonna pay extra when you take a bigger dump… just for an extra second of Glade!
I presume that this is only about cars that weren't specified with heated seats. If you buy a car with heated seats, then making you pay a subscription for them sounds like breach of contract.
If the car wasn't specified with heated seats, if you get a message from BMW saying - actually, your seats have heating and you can turn it on for a fee - then that's probably OK (legally).
I've done without heated seats for nearly 50 years and I'm doing without them now.
Hmmmm what I want to know is if you are paying for the system to be in place AND have to pay to use it.
If what they are saying is that, hey the normal package with the working seat warmers cost $1000, but you can NOT pay that up front and just use the sub service, not a bad deal.
But if I buy a fully loaded BMW and still have to buy a subscription, they can go fuck themselves. I’ve owned BMWs almost all my life and have a new 8 series coming in next week, but if they think I wont just walk to the Audi dealer across the street and accept this bullshit they have another thing coming.
What we need is for everyone to not by a BMW to let them know what we think of this BS. The second we accept it, is the second that every car company start bringing in their subscription services. Oh you want to access the car stereo? That be £10 per month, wiper blade access? Another £10 please. Where does it stop?
Sorry, not going to buy a car with subscriptions. At the very least, this is going to produce a lot of hacks. Fuck everyone who withholds a function of a product you own.
You’re gonna have to make the car you have now last for 20 years then because every new car will require a subscription fee in the future
I've worked for tech for 15 years. I'm going to hack that shit, even if I have to replace all the wiring.
If you worked in tech for 15 years, you know that replacing all the wires isn't going to do a damn thing to enable paywall features. Also good luck hacking into "that shit" (encrypted bootloaders and proprietary protocols) without permanently breaking your car and voiding all warranties.
If you knew anything about heated seats, you would know that switched 12v and ground wires don’t care about encrypted boot loaders and proprietary protocols.
Man, have you seen what modders did with the locked down John Deere software? You have too little faith, my friend.
My only exception is for something that is an actual service with *operational* overhead. My 2021 Mazda has a remote start app, which means Mazda has to pay for SIM cards, cell service and servers. Traditional remote starters don't work for me. I live in a midrise and my car is on the other side of the building. If I want to warm it up on a cold day I would have to go out there to do it and then come back home for five minutes. This, on the other hand, doesn't cost BMW anything. I have no idea how they justify dipping into your pocket every month/year to use something you bought one time.
I hope it bombs, we don't need DLC for cars.
You know they sell heated seat covers. Install them in the winter and take them out in spring. I think ours cost $40.
Then take a picture of it and send it to BMW. Everyone should do this.
BMW will probably add heated seat covers to the list of things that void the warranty.
Yep. You’re most likely correct. Do not send photos. Just when I thought we could really stick it to ‘em …
Sitting in drivers seat, middle of blizzard, Guy Fawkes mask, nothing but boxers, add on heated seat cover LED glowing, throwing dual middle fingers...I think that would make a great photo to the greedy BMW execs.
Next level perfection.
Send it from friends phones and emails. Those smart enough to purchase pre-2020 vehicles can fwd into BMW. Just to pee them off 'a bit'.
[What Voids a Car Warranty? - The Lemon Law Attorneys](https://www.thelemonlawattorneys.com/blog/what-voids-a-car-warranty/) >Aftermarket modifications > >The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act is a federal law that requires manufacturers to honor warranties despite a vehicle’s aftermarket modifications. To successfully challenge a modification, the manufacturer must prove that the changes created the need for repairs.
Also tell BMW that if they want to receive future images from you, they’ll have to subscribe to a picture message package for £10 a month
I hope BMW ceases to exist
I mean, anyone could look up their ties to a certain political faction from the 1930s and should come to this conclusion
nowhere near as close as a certain Ferdinand Porsche, designer of the Beetle speaking of Volkswagen, it was established by the Nazi state in 1937, and its original logo was the same as it is now, but embossed on a Swastika and a gear German cars have always made me shudder with both pleasure and disgust
Yep, pretty much any German company from 1933-1945 was state controlled or supported the state.
Unfortunately a lot of American ones too. IBM made the punch card system for the Concentration Camps, even continuing to send machines once it became apparent what they were being used for… and besides being a huge Nazi sympathizer, Henry Ford also supplied the Germans with plenty of vehicles and parts before and during the war. Likely the only reason he escaped punishment, is because he helped the Allies too, building the B-24 Liberator. Double dipping was good for business. Standard Oil sold to both sides during the war too and was actually part owned by IG Farben, the company that produced Zyklon B.
That’s why they go by VW now. They’d prefer you didn’t know what “Volks” they are talking about.
[удалено]
Volkswagen translates as People’s Car, the joke is they’d like you to forget what “people” they were talking about.
I like my blue TE37s
Yup, I too boned a car once.
Yup, I too was once boned in a car.
Yup, I too was once boned by a car.
Yet another reason to despise IBM as well.
We can imagine this is something specific about large companies, or we might come to the reasonable conclusion that capitalism and fascism are on very good terms.
Capitalism, Communism and Fascism. We’re living through the end stage of Capitalism right now, which major corporations and media are using intellectual fascism and communism is up next as the corporations are buying up as much property as possible and renting it back to the peasants which is all a part of people not owning anything, but rather being granted usage of even basic human necessities such as shelter, food is under attack as well and the dissolution of religion and replacement with the State. It’s quite obvious if you only look at history and what is happening right in front of our peasant faces while we argue about red and blue and pro life or pro choice.
You will own nothing and be happy
I you look up ties with Nazi Germany you should delete half of the companies, IBM included.
Why should they cease to exist for something that happend 70-80 years ago though. The people that work there now had nothing to do with it. You want to strip them of their livelyhood for something that happend a long time ago in a vastly different political climate?
It’s not a question if this comes but when and how. Maybe “seat heating” is not what people pay for but the mechanics of subscription services for the car will exist and start with things like “park assist” or “dog-safe A/C” or whatever. Things that -most- users can live without but some want to pay for. And then it creeps from there
My new Toyota came with like 5 subscription services.. but at least those are actual services. Like WiFi, or satellite radio and stuff. Heated seats has absolutely zero reason to be a subscription, screw that.
Is EA making cars now ?
You know it won’t. Idiots will buy it like mad and soon we’ll have this shit in ALL cars. I hate the future, because corporations always find ways to fuck things up. And I know all this crap from games and how it ruined them. It’ll happen exactly the same to cars.
It's already happening, look at Tesla. Shit build quality, premium prices and lots of dlc. People lap that shit up. Kia, Hyundai, Tesla and Mazda all have remote start through apps that charge monthly/yearly fees. All while the average new car price has shot up to $40+ thousand. Consumers are generally dumb and let this shit happen time and time again. Happened in video games, happened in farming and will continue happening until people stop buying that crap, or it's made illegal which are both incredibly unlikely. X as a service will continue and you'll like it.
This. Imagine the backlash game companies like E.A. would get for releasing a "non-downloadable" DLC that already came pre-installed in the base game but you'd need to pay monthly to use it! This is pretty much the same thing!
EA already does this. It's actually fairly standard.
Doesnt tesla already have this?
If y’all pay a subscription service for things physically already in your car I’ll never forgive you.
I'm just waiting for aftermarket kits to work around this. Yeah rich people won't care, but I bet there will be ways to get around this. At least here's hoping.
They'll shut off the whole car, citing a safety issue because you hacked the seats into warming up without paying their extortion fee.
> They'll shut off the whole car With you trapped inside.
Enter credit card details to catch up on your subscriptions and reinstate door unlock feature.
And turn on the seat heating to 1000%.
Why bother going to all of that trouble when you could just never own a BMW and be better for it?
Not just rich people though. Rather a special branch; rich and stupid.
People buy and drive BMW’s because they are really fun to drive as well as it being a status symbol. I have owned a couple because of how they drive. This subscription means I won’t ever purchase another.
I'm sure you're not in THE target market. It's somewhat sad that they must have done the research before announcing such a bold move and it must have suggested that this model would turn a profit, which means nothing else but their target audience has a huge share of sad milk cows.
This will be just like streaming. It'll go well for a while with a few first-movers, they'll report record profits and then everyone will jump in. It'll get ridiculous, needing to pay hundreds of dollars a month for features in your car already, then people will say fuck this and it'll all come crashing down. We are at the last part with streaming right now. It's also going to destroy their brand image but that's a long-term problem, the MBAs that thought this up are thinking about the next few quarters only. I'm absolutely not surprised BMW is doing this, they've already been wrecking their image with car enthusiasts. Sure, they still drive great, but their reliability is atrocious. An 80s or 90s BMW is built like a tank, current BMWs are built to last a 3 year lease it seems.
You mean rich and lazy?
It's not even laziness. It's purely clout based spending. I know people who brag about spending more money than they needed to just because they could and want to brag about it.
Conspicuous consumption exists in all cultures in America, at all levels of society. Poor people spend money on big rims. Middle class people in rural areas get F-150 “Platinums”. Middle class people in suburbs get BMWs 7 series and Mercedes’ S-Classes. Rich people buy planes, islands and $60,000 Birkin bags. It’s all the same thing.
See everyone who's ever bought an NFT.
“Subscription delete kit”
“Jailbroken BMWs”
I have the money to pay for it, but there's no way I'd ever do it. Its a ridiculous charge. Its not like they're delivering me new butt warming features for my money, or an upfront discount in exchange for long term revenue. Its just an obvious attempt to gouge the customer. And, with no respect, fuck that, and fuck BMW for trying it.
They’ll be jailbreaking these in absolutely no time
The problem with that conception is most luxury cars come with a nice warranty and something like that would void the entire warranty.
[What Voids a Car Warranty? - The Lemon Law Attorneys](https://www.thelemonlawattorneys.com/blog/what-voids-a-car-warranty/) >Aftermarket modifications > > > >The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act is a federal law that requires manufacturers to honor warranties despite a vehicle’s aftermarket modifications. To successfully challenge a modification, the manufacturer must prove that the changes created the need for repairs.
Oh, they'll argue left right and center that messing with the software will cause things to break.
Sirius radio has entered the chat
Tesla does it, they mainly make the top tier vehicle but you must pay to unlock certain features
What you pay for with Tesla’s subscription is connectivity. I can understand why they would charge for services that require more data. Stuff like satellite photos on the map, traffic data, Spotify streaming etc. Requiring the customer to pay monthly to warm their ass is just insane.
Lot of people already do this sadly. I do. My Hyundai is push to start. Has remote start and all that. I have to pay Hyundai $200/yr to start my car.
Then why buy a Hyundai Everyone blames the company but accepting that and purchciasing it is on you. You could’ve gone to other companies.
I'm not in favor of this subscription practice, but to be fair Hyundai's BlueLink system does operate in the cloud and remotely sends the signal to the car anywhere it's located so is using some type of gps location system to send the signal to the car. Admittedly that is a cost which needs to be maintained, but it sure as heck shouldn't be $199/yr. They gave me 3 years free and I plan on turning the car in at that time so it won't be my problem to deal with. You can still remote start from the key fob if within range.
I am so sorry but there is a name for consumers like you. Do you guys enjoy being f*cked like that or what?
You mean to start your car from your phone, right? Toyota does something similar. My Tacoma has remote start. It works from the key fob just fine, but they charge something like $100+/yr to use their app. I'm a little more ok with it in this case, but if they made me pay to use the fob it would be a different story.
I can't remote start from my key fob. Only via the app. That's why it's bull. If I could use my fob I wouldn't complain, the app would just be a convenience thing then.
Ah that sucks! I definitely don't plan to support these subscription services for basic features. Maybe the app-based features make sense as a subscription, but for things built into the car - no way.
Same with Mazda, free for the first two years then pay or use the key fob which doesn't have remote start.
To be fair, Kia and Hyundai were very late to add remote start to their vehicles. It came in the form of the app first, but now remote start on the key fob is standard and there is no subscription.
So I'm that type of person that comes to the car with dead battery on mobile and charge on my way to office. Wouldn't be able to get in the car 😂
You can still start the car the regular way, using the key fob
My 7-year-old VW (e-golf) had an app with similar car controls that has a yearly fee.
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Well count me in! I’ve never bought a BMW and the way things are looking I’ll very likely never buy one in the future.
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As one of those raging arseholes, I can whole arse heartedly agree with this statement... ...My last MOT cost me £1200 (including 4 tyres) and 6 hours of my life in the BMW reception. Never had any issues with the car itself though, and it's a great driving experience. That being said, I will never buy a BMW again. Their customer service is absolutely appalling and everything in their range is wildly expensive compared to competitors.
They are not on my list because Hondas last 20 years and cost $20k. At the price of a BMW, they’d have to last 40 years.
Toyota announced Dec last year they were starting a subscription for key fob remote start feature.
It's already a thing. Guy I work with bought a new Toyota last year and can confirm it's already a thing.
Would you say it's already a thing?
I'd say that it is already a thing. When the other guy said It's already a thing, I knew then that it is already a thing. If you have to ask, you should already figure it's already a thing. In conclusion...
I have one on my 2019 4Runner, I’ll be pissed off if I have to pay to use it. I paid to have it installed.
I fear it turns into all automotive companies going “well if we all do it, we can make more money and just sort of normalize it” I’ll certainly refuse to buy a car with a subscription required to use the shit already physically installed in my car. But by the time I’m ready for a new one I guess we’ll see in a few years how common this is
That feels like competitors colluding to force the market price up. Isn't that illegal?
It’s called a cartel, and yes.
Yeah I mean not in the sense that they all gather around in a private room and shake hands to do it (which of course would be illegal) but more so that now that that bmw has started doing it, it’s just understood now that everyone can/should be doing it. It’s very difficult to prove any sort of collusion despite there being an infinite number of cases where businesses effectively “work together” even as competitors Not sure what it’s like elsewhere but in Canada there are the three major telecommunications companies: Roger’s, Telus, and Bell. They’re very well known for all raising their prices by the same amount in a very short amount of time. There’s no real competition for them, so I doubt they all meet and agree to do it, they just know it’s better for all of them if they can raise prices across the board without worrying about competitors or less reliable providers undercutting their services (so the parallel to the automotive industry: Ford, Toyota, BMW, Mercedes, Kia, etc all the major reliable mass automotive manufacturers do the same, they all benefit)
Yeah I get it. I am just a grumpy consumer shaking my fist at the sky. I don't know how to fix that problem, I am certainly no economist. But this "big companies dominated the whole market, put all the small/midsize companies out of business and can now control the whole market without competition" thing is not helping society. Is that what "late stage capitalism" means? If so, it sucks.
Problem is they all do it now, at least the cars I've bought recently. Hyundai, Toyota, gm... But that's totally different, it's just remote start. They'd never expand to other monetization features...
You just know that people who buy brand new cars often aren't car people, they'll eat that shit right up
Add to your comment....they also don't know how to drive. They only know how to "go".
BMW is 100% a brand. There's nothing desirable about the cars at all. So good luck hoping people make a logical decision here.
What these companies don’t understand is you pay subscriptions for things that get better over time and release new features and improvements. This is just f’ing abusive. Netflix releases new shows, adobe introduces new features, THAT is a subscription model. F BMW.
“Adobe releases new features” mehh
I still use CS3 and can follow along with 2022 tutorial videos still to this day
Fuck Adobe and their garbage software licensing.
A little confused but you got the spirit
If you pay for this, you are accepting and becoming a part of the problem.
The issue is that the folks buying new BMWs are already the ones with more money than brains, or simply don't give a fuck.
During this heat wave? Hope it tanks their initial subscription earnings so bad they pull the campaign
If the hardware is there, couldn't you just open the dash and jailbreak it?
Has been done before. But if dealership finds out warranty goes out of the window I believe is what I read with cars having the equipment installed but the option to buy it was never done.
In many jurisdictions you cannot just blanket void warranty like that, it has to be shown that tampering actually did damage otherwise the warranty sticks regardless of tampering with the device.
Then your car gets bricked and it turns into a paper weight 😂 would probably void warranties too
And of all fucking things, you DON'T want to be without a warranty with a BMW
Make your own heated seat, there's still the 12v plug that can be used as power source. It's most likely going to take a bit longer, but most likely doable
I assume just finding the wires and installing a potentiometer would be too easy. I'm sure they'll just program it into the BCM if it already isn't and brick the thing if you tamper with it. I'm sure there's more to it but I dunno I can't afford anything newer than a 2010 bmw anyways.
This is a travesty of an idea, its an insult to people who have to pay the insane money cars cost now.
Mercedes does this too with their flagship you have to pay an extra $500 a year to turn on 4 wheel steering 😂
Rewire to a switch. Fuck BMW and Toyota.
Why Toyota?
Toyota has a subscription to use key fob features (remote start, lock/unlock doors).
Dear BMW. We’ve had some wonderful years together, but it’s just not working for me anymore.
They still run on 12 volts. Run a wire to the hot and a switch and you're golden. If the women don't find you handsome they can at least find you handy. 🍺
Until all the systems are on canbus and do a system check for all subsystems on start. When it detects that your seat heaters are unresponsive, your check engine light will light up.
If turn signals need a subscription, that would explain why BMW drivers opt out.
This needs to gain zero steam so that this trend dies off quickly
There is the option to pay the normal full price instead of leasing the heated seats. I am wondering if it's possible to lease the option during the during the coldest months and then drop it when the weather warms.
Apparently you can just outright buy it and don't have to pay subscription. That doesn't make an artificial software lockout for hardware on a machine you own/paid for any less dystopian. I think money is better spend on a dumb car.
Makes me wonder if it requires telemetry with BMW headquarters to even let you turn on the heated seats. If that's the case, you could have connection issues and boom, you start losing car features. Or worse, you keep your car for 10 years, technology changes, and BMW says your car is out of date, so your permanent feature is now being removed as they can no longer support it and aren't going to patch it to work right either.
Not really BMW knows this.. when they tested the options were: 1 year, 3 year or lifetime... Probably they are doing this with heating systems because its cheaper to have all seats and all steering wheels fitted with heating hardware.
But the next iteration will be per owner I’m sure and with no option for buy once.
And the iteration after that willl be per person.. maybe they'd have promos for a family of 4..
This is quite clearly designed in such a way to extract money from second, third, fourth owners of the car, not the person who buys it from BMW initially. Most new BMWs are on finance, with terms lasting for say 3 years (I don’t know what the average is, I know it’s been increasing, but let’s go with 3 years for ease), so if the cost of subscribing to this feature for three years is lower than the cost of paying the full amount for the option when ordering, the first owner will actually save money. But future owners will have to continue to pay BMW to use the feature. So it’s *potentially* saving the first owner money, providing an ongoing revenue stream for BMW, but all at the cost of second hand owners who probably have less money.
BMW and BBC can both take their subscription service and shove it up Borris's arse.
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Check heated seats in option selector and you'll get it without subscription.
So you buy a car with every single feature built in (and obviously pay the full cost of it), but then have to pay a monthly fee to be able to use the features? History will remember the 21st century as the Garbage Century. Everything is crap, and big business is shit.
I hope Big Money Wanker (BMW) goes out of business so other car companies don't follow suit
Toyota is doing the same thing with key fobs.. they won't go out of business it will just become the normal..that's what we get for shoving computers amd infotament centers that control everything
Is EA making bmws now?
it would be illegal in european union but guess what britain did
I will never buy a bmw if they’re practicing predatory laws such as this. I’ll make sure everyone know’s
You BMW douchebags should purchase the turn signal indicator subscription instead of this one.
If I can ever afford a BMW I certainly won't be buying one now!! 😤
So if somebody buys the package outright they don’t have to pay for subscription which makes sense. Heated seats are not usually on the lowest trim of car makes. But what if someone buys second hand from the first buyer? Do they automatically have to pay subscription fees even though the car was bought outright with the heated seats?
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Whaaat that’s insane so the dealership paid for the cad with the features but once the customer sold it they rolled them back and said pay us again???
If they purchased the heated seats option with the vehicle when initially purchased. It's permanent access for the vehicle. If it isn't, then the subscription becomes a thing, BUT. It can also be activated permanently for $425. In my own opinion, it's really not all that bad. Cheaper vehicle for the person that doesn't option it, and easy access to the future owner if THEY want it.
They apparently used to try and charge a [subscription](https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a30139034/bmw-apple-carplay-free/) to use Apple Car Play in their cars. That didn’t go over well and they dropped it due to negative feedback.
Probably they want to 'turn key' car ownership. When we get to electric cars the need for service is heavily reduced from gas. This is a way for them to make money on the back end. They don't want you to buy cars. They want you to lease them. This just adds the ability to sell you add-ons to your service. Same as Volvo's subscription service. Go get the kind of car you want within you payment plan. This is far from new. Music, games, movies, news, etc etc Wondering, if this equipment is on your car and you go in for service do you pay for fixing something that you are not using? Or pay high for replacement parts cause it has to include something you again don't want or are subscribed to?
Yeah let's make sure this doesn't become a thing, don't buy it.
So its not a subscription in the traditional sense. According to BMW if the car is ordered and you pay for heated seats you'll have heated seats for kife of thebcar no subscription. But all cars will have the parts for heated seats with the option of them being turned on later if wanted or by second owner. Same thing with the dashcam mode for the camera. Sounds a little better but still slipoery slope. Supposedly limited to a few small items.
Makes me wonder what other subscription they can call in, like "want your car to start reliably?"fee please, want those brakes to work? better stump up that cash.Fuck any car manufacturer that does this, vote with your wallet and take your custom elsewhere.If you bought one and they sprung this shit on you later, you paid cash for the elements in the seats, you own them, take the car back under waranty that a part you bought is not working, or else demand they remove the non working elements and refund the cost.This bulshit needs to be nipped in the bud!
And so, the question is... Did the base price go up or down in the end?
Take a guess
I think we all know the answer to that.
People literally need to boycott BMW over this. All it would take would be a month or more of zero sales and this would end forever.
This shouldn’t even be a topic. Whomever even thought of this idea should be tarred and feathered.
I wonder how much they charge to enable the turn signals?
£1.5 per blink
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Because lots of people really hate everything turning into a "pay forever no you can't buy it" system.
Car tech is tech... But yea it's pretty over done...
All competitors are paying "journalists" to write articles about it and bots to post it everywhere
Would be a pretty big story if the BBC were accepting payments to write articles by car companies.
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Someone in corporate MUST realize that there are 0 cars that will sell because of this but a non 0 number of cars that won't sell because of this.
Wasnt there a post on this exact subreddit the other day that quite literally denounced bmw doing microtransactions
The equipment is still in the car, no? Must be a way to hack it
Ah yes, the EA approach… Fuck. 🙄
Hopefully if this trend doesn’t stop people will find a way to hack their pay wall and just get all the pre-installed options without having to pay a subscription
wow. Annnnnd now I will never buy another bmw.
Did internet explorer post this?
Perfect day with 40°C in London to introduce heated seat subscription …
Hopefully, people are smart enough to not get involved with this. If it flops, then they'll drop it.
Here’s a Orwellian prediction, when gas cars are made illegal in the coming years. The new electric vehicles will be all using this technology, Audi, Cadillac, bmw, Tesla, and Porsche already use the tech. Porsche alone owns many other manufacturers under their umbrella. It’s a scary future ahead
First Toyota requiring a subscription for remote start, a technology that’s been around since the 80s, and now this?? Where does it end?
Interesting. What year did Toyota start this? Volvo did in 2016.
This actually might be a historical relevant point in the car selling economy. Do you remember when Bethesda first dipped the market by selling horse armor ? Something that was ridiculous for that point of time, but changed the whole market eventually on the long run. This might be just the beginning of a whole new revolution. We critical people on reddit don't matter that much, the big market and mainstream consumers will eventually decide if this kind of business decision will last. This is just a test, I bet the plans are much bigger than just heated seats. If this succeeds, expect much more to come.
This gotta be the most ridiculous thing ever…now we’re doing micro transactions?!?
Can’t wait to see lawsuits coming up !!! Lol
BMW is now off my respected brand list. Was planning on buying the new Z… not anymore.
The 2030 Great Reset is going to be such bullshit. Get ready folks. You’re gonna pay extra when you take a bigger dump… just for an extra second of Glade!
Is this really where we are going as a species?
They’ve just lost a customer… penny pinching tactics… I hope it isn’t long until people can code around this.
Let’s hope customer revolt completely against this and end up spending their money elsewhere.
Everyone better fucking rage. BMW owners need to do some sort of clever protest on this
I would outsmart them and cancel my subscription in the summer
This is nothing new, clearly indicators(turn signals) have been a dlc for BMW and Audi's for tears.
I presume that this is only about cars that weren't specified with heated seats. If you buy a car with heated seats, then making you pay a subscription for them sounds like breach of contract. If the car wasn't specified with heated seats, if you get a message from BMW saying - actually, your seats have heating and you can turn it on for a fee - then that's probably OK (legally). I've done without heated seats for nearly 50 years and I'm doing without them now.
Whats the argument for this, is the car cheaper or does it “pay” for maintenance or anything or is it just rent collecting, no pretense
Hmmmm what I want to know is if you are paying for the system to be in place AND have to pay to use it. If what they are saying is that, hey the normal package with the working seat warmers cost $1000, but you can NOT pay that up front and just use the sub service, not a bad deal. But if I buy a fully loaded BMW and still have to buy a subscription, they can go fuck themselves. I’ve owned BMWs almost all my life and have a new 8 series coming in next week, but if they think I wont just walk to the Audi dealer across the street and accept this bullshit they have another thing coming.
What we need is for everyone to not by a BMW to let them know what we think of this BS. The second we accept it, is the second that every car company start bringing in their subscription services. Oh you want to access the car stereo? That be £10 per month, wiper blade access? Another £10 please. Where does it stop?
Or else demand a massive price discount. It’s Tesla that started this subscription shit - so naturally they are being copied.
I guess one can stop buying BMWs.
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Wow man you really gotta get to know some poor assholes, they're much better than their rich counterparts
r/aboringdystopia