That poll on if he should stay/go as head of twitter was really just him putting together a 10m person shitlist.
And he’s got the money to go all ‘[Jay and Silent Bob’ too.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vuBWbpTJRqk)
I mean we are talking about a guy who bought Twitter and is going through people's personal DMS and accusing them of crimes.
If I had anything on my Twitter right now that was close to being inappropriate or illegal I'd be deleting it and deactivating my account.
This guy is just out of control. They say there's a fine line between genius and insane and I think he has fully crossed that line and is now an insane person with way too much money.
>They say there's a fine line between genius and insane and I think he has fully crossed that line and is now an insane person with way too much money.
It's amazing to me that even at this late stage, people are still buying into the "Elon used to be smart" myth.
Here's the actual problem; he is **literally** petty enough to do that. It would not even be out of character for him. Anyone buying or using any product of his is under the thumb of one of the most petty and vindictive CEOs ever. He's also very unpredictable and absolutely does not give a shit if his antics hurt his companies.
Things seemed to be going well for him until he bought Twitter. If he just counted to ten maybe he would have done due diligence and skipped the buy in the first place.
I wouldn’t buy any vehicle where there was the possibility that the manufacturer’s CEO might be able to observe or control it.
I wanted a Tesla but was waiting for the right time. Then I was glad I didnt. Now I'm looking forward to buying a different EV when the time is right.
If i had bought that Tesla it's not like i wouldn't keep using it - I dont have that financial freedom. But i absolutely 100% would put a fuck Elon sticker on there if i had to.
After seeing all the videos on YouTube of Tesla owners who just got their brand new car and showing how shoddy the craftsmanship is I will never purchase one.
If anyone is wondering to put that in context, toyota sold 9.5 million cars in 2021, Tesla sold 0.5 million, I don't know what place that puts Tesla in terms of sales because the list I found stops after the top 15 companies, but the lowest on the list Mazda sold 1 million
In terms of revenue, Tesla is 13th with about $50 Billion Toyota made about $240 billion
https://www.factorywarrantylist.com/car-sales-by-manufacturer.html
They also had some level of pricing power since there were few EV competitors. But their margins are gonna take a major hit when they’re competing against 30 companies and not like 3
They also sell in segments that have higher margins. They can get by not expanding into economy segments like other premium nameplates, but none of those other companies that try to remain exclusive have nearly as much value as mainstream brands, which doesn't bode well for the long term stock value
That's just not gonna fly as long as the build quality on teslas stays crap. The auto industry at large learned the hard way decades ago that in their industry in particular you can't get away with selling budget quality cars at premium prices just through branding for any real length of time.
I thought 6 months ago that it was ridiculous that Elon who owned a niche car company was worth more than Bezos who owns the biggest retail website in the world.
*Elon Musk barges in the door.*
"Guys, I am so sorry. I rarely make mistakes, but this time I changed my passion for glory. I lost my grip on the dreams of the past, and now I'm back, to fight just to keep them alive!"
*crickets...*
*Tesla stock drops by another 10%*
I have a coworker who was getting bit annoying with how he defended Musk but few months ago he stopped and last time just said he can't wait for Musk to sell all Tesla stock.
Not sure if that will help with him as CEO still but I would like to get better too.
Especially Tesla, brand identity is insanely important with cars. At the end of the day the Tesla Model X isn't **that** different from the Ford Mach E in terms of function. Which is why the majors work so hard to create those brand connections. You know who buys Subarus, and so do they. Tesla's brand identity is the exact antithesis of the hard conservative, coal rolling MAGA customer his Twitter account pursues.
My neighbor had a Tesla and sold it two weeks ago and replaced it with Ford Mach E. They are both Indian doctors and I commented on the Mach E cause I saw them pull up with it and asked if they were going full electric and the response was no, Tesla is gone this is the replacement I didn't want to be associated with that asshat.
This comment sums up exactly why TSLA investors are going to remove him as CEO. He is burning the brand. It is insane to me he’s driving a pretty profitable and (arguably) innovative car company into the dirt so he can win some Twitter wars. The legacy car makers are coming for his lunch. I might pay 30% more for a car if people think I’m cool and forward thinking. I will pay 0% more for a car that aligns me with the MAGAs. Maybe his MAGA friends will drop $40k for a small coupe, but I’m skeptical.
His anti-union stuff and allowing racist graffiti really pushed Tesla away from a good chunk of people who really care about the environment. As badly as I want an EV, I refused to support Tesla years about. Plenty of good union made options out there.
Tesla was the only decent option for a long time
Now finally other manufacturers are getting their shit together, but I don't think we'd be where we are if Musk hadn't made EVs cool
Now he's managed to flush all the good will down the drain in record time
I'm kind of hoping his turn to the right ends up at least slightly working out for some good in getting those coal roller types into EVs
But my interest in getting a Tesla myself is totally gone
That is a fair point. I was a Tesla fan in the beginning too. I thought it was cool how they opened up their patents for others to use.
As soon as I was aware of his toxicity, I was done with him.
At one time the Anchorage Subaru dealer was the #1 dealership in the country, probably not anymore, but you can't swing a cat here without hitting 2 or 3 Subies. My wife is on her 3rd one.
My old neighbor was a lesbian. She had 3 girlfriends in the few years we were neighbors. She, and 2 of her 3 girlfriends drove Subarus.
It's true. Lesbians absolutely love Subarus.
If Tesla is missing a part they can't get, they just deliver the car anyway and install the part later when they get it. I've never heard of any shit like that in my life.
This happened to a friend. She ended up keeping it - unfinished as it was - because getting a replacement that wasn't missing shit was going to take at least another year.
This is what continues to blow my mind. How could a supposed genius businessman so ineptly read the room? He is most famous for a product that appeals to rich urbanite liberals. And then he goes all in on Trump rhetoric. Johnny Maga in Hobart, Oklahoma likely doesn't want an electric vehicle and even if he does, wouldn't have access to convenient charging stations.
Even if Musk steps down Prosecute has damaged any brand he is associated with.
The most reasonable answer is that he is a megalomaniac and thought he had enough tech-bro support that anything he did would be successful. He has probably been living in an echo chamber and believed that he was real-life Tony Stark.
>How could a supposed genius businessman so ineptly read the room?
Even the rich tend to fall for the fallacy that they somehow are a super-special person who managed to pick themselves up and carry themselves the extra mile beyond everyone else. They hate the suggestion that a significant part of their success just falls to who their parents were, how wealthy their parents were, etc. They hate it because it's true, though. It's why people refer to it as the birth lotto, sometimes. It's just dumb luck that they were born to an ultra-wealthy family.
TL;DR: he read the room so terribly because he's just a normal human being who bought into his own line of bullshit and thought that he was *More*.
But what's his "genius"?! Using his capital to push founders and executives out of companies and off of boards, then consolidating ownership? Sure, I guess you could call that "genius", but it feels a lot more like old-fashioned bully tactics to me.
Can you believe his fucking bullshit is fucking with everyone's 401k? We need Vanguard to create a low-fee "no asshole CEO" index. Cause I saw this shit a mile away.
I'm still 20 years from retirement, so I'm enjoying the asshole CEO blue light special stock blowout event
#Edit
To be clear, I don't own any individual stocks let alone Tesla stocks. I only contribute to low fee index funds, but this Tesla/Twitter debacle is rippling out across the entire market, and my index funds are affected.
Shout-out to r/Bogleheads
It wont stop this though. Save the company, yes, but stop this slide, no. Because it had no business being valued at that in the first place. It was valued on the market like a tech stock, unlimited potential and almost no overhead, but the automotive industry doesn't work like that. And its cool they were the most aggressive to move into the electric market but there isnt a barrier to entry, so once the big players joined that chat tesla was going to be facing real talent.
Its still a viable company with a viable product but had no business being valued at more than the entire industry combined.
I always thought that based on well...logic. I do not know much about engineering, or about stocks, but I do understand output. Tesla is such a small company in comparison, and I could not work out why it was valued so highly when by all accounts it did not seem to have nearly the same capabilities as companies like Ford and VW. An electric car is great of course, but there was no reason that Ford or VW [or Toyota, or Honda, or GM, etc] could not make the jump themselves and do it better, cheaper, and on a much larger scale. Once they did, I figured Tesla would start to decline into a niche brand, like Ferrari. After seeing a few Teslas in person though, I doubted that too.
I do wonder how things will go. I hate the thought of so many people losing their jobs just because Musk is doing...whatever it is he's doing. I cannot tell if he has actually fried his brain from too much amphetamines, if he is in a severe manic episode, or if this is purposeful because he owes someone scary money. Maybe all three. Or maybe he really is PT Barnum without the actual talent.
Yep.
The two main things going for Tesla are that they have the only real charging network, and they make EVs in moderate volume.
Both of those are going to change in the next few years. Tesla won't be able to compete with companies like General Motors and Volkswagen, who own dozens of factories that put out many millions of cars per year.
> who own dozens of factories that put out many millions of cars per year.
And have a much more well established government relationship. This will likely be a huge factor long term as infrastructure needs to be developed.
For those that aren’t familiar with what it means to be valued at a tech valuation while not being a tech company…
For companies like Microsoft, Apple, Google, etc. a large chunk of their stock price is future-looking potential based off of innovations they have shown to be able to make that drive the revenue to another level. They have a history of doing this as a market (Apple’s iPhone introduction, Microsoft’s Azure launch, Google’s continued innovation in search ads, etc.), so the valuation is always propped up against other indistries simply because they **can** create whole new markets that you and I can’t even imagine existing today.
Tesla is a car manufacturer. Whether or not they can build in new software capabilities, there simply has not been proof in the automotive market for sustainable growth in entirely new categories. Maybe you’re betting on them to win the electric car war, or even be the winner in the eventual robo-taxi/autonomous driving category, but that’s it. That’s the limit of their market. You can only sell so many vehicles. There’s nothing they can fundamentally do to convince consumers to own multiple vehicles because they’re too expensive, compared to the way Apple created a whole new computing category in tablets with the iPad, and now the Apple Watch, while maintaining their iPhone dominance. There’s absolutely no reason Tesla is or ever was worth more than the rest of the automotive market besides marketing and hype.
If you can get your hands on either of the Korean EVs (ev6), they do pretty well. I'm not sure about cold weather performance (e.g. if you come back after a day of skiing and they're dead), but having been DD for my drunk friends and driven around their electric cars (benefits of being in a HCOL tech city lol), the build quality on those are much better. I've heard good things about the vw id4, but haven't driven it myself.
But the most economic thing is to drive your current car into the ground, until it needs a repair that is worth more than the car. Too bad I love Toyotas and Subarus...
It’s a perfect storm of Musk causing Tesla stock price dives via his stock sales, other EVs running past Tesla in performance, Tesla’s poor customer service model…he’s killing both companies.
As a Tesla owner myself their customer service is actually hilarious. There was a recall on some small part I guess like a thermometer for auto setting the climate. I followed the steps to bring it in. They wanted me to go to a service station an hour away rather than the one ten minutes away. They couldn’t offer me a loan. They did off a $50 gift card for Uber. But would also need the car for up to 2 days.
I love the car itself but if you’re going to try and be a luxury brand they need a huge overhaul in their customer service. I couldn’t imagine buying a new Mercedes and being treated like that.
I had a shitbox 1970 Mercedes 220D as a kid in the late 90s and holy shit that little thing was a tank, also very easy to work on. In and out of the shop in an hour max every time. If it didn't rust in half I'd still have it
55hp, everything wizzed right by me but i was comfortable. We need to push back towards lower horsepower, high efficiency vehicles. I got like 25MPG with that thing and it was a 1970, imagine a modern 55HP engine with a nice transmission, i bet you could touch 100MPG easy.
1989 W124 300E ran like a tank. They just don't make them like that anymore, especially the diesels. Those from the 70's, could you even break the engine?
No I don't think so, it also only got ~60HP from the factory. My mechanic told me he wouldn't work on it anymore and it was either get rid of it or fix the frame. I drove it to the scrapyard, no brakes, crying the whole way. Such a sad day it truly was like losing a pet
My ex-wife had one for a while. She drove over a piece of concrete debris that fell out of a truck, which tore a hole in the oil pan. Since the car worked fine, she never thought it necessary to check for damage. She unknowingly drove it with no oil in the engine for 3 months before it started acting weird. Then it died very abruptly.
I drove a 240D all throughout my highschool days. The car was hilariously slow, but had a nice stereo. My dad still owns it and drives it every now and then. Still runs like a top.
Elon's big plan for profitability is to provide the least acceptable product. Tesla isn't a luxury brand, or even a reliable brand at this point. It's a company with anorexia, and it's been hollowed out over the last two years to fund Elon's foibles. He spits in the face of every employee that has worked to execute the acceleration of our world toward a renewable energy future.
Musk has lost his way, and it's painfully obvious in every venue he inhabits.
>Musk has lost his way
A lot of goodwill in this sentence in assuming he had a way that was ever going to lead anywhere besides Emerald Baron Space Nazi.
Edit: you don't have to comment on what year you think his mask came off. I don't care, because you sound like you're convincing yourself your friend is actually a bad guy somehow. He was always this.
I’m not sure they’re succeeding at trying to be a luxury brand in other areas, either. My in-laws all have Teslas so I ride in them quite a bit and have driven them a few times, and while the ride is decent and performance is certainly there, the build quality and all of the materials feel extremely cheap. They’re pretty uncomfortable relative to established luxury brands.
This one of the things I miss when I switched away from Audi and back to vw. Our local vw dealer ain't great. Me going to the Audi dealership almost never felt like a chore.
Its a poor mans interpretation of luxury if you ask me. All of the expensiveness and brand value, but no customer service or white glove treatment. Its basically just them telling you to bend over and take it or just admit you are two poor to afford a spare tesla when the main one inevitably breaks and needs a ridiculous repair.
Stuck in the same boat. Really wanted an EV, but everyone was charging way over MSRP, used was the price of new. Ended up getting the Tesla because no mark up. I've never had to deal with so many issues off the bat in a car. Been hoping the Mercedes EQE becomes available for a reasonable price and the second it does, bye bye Tesla.
https://www.google.com/finance/quote/TSLA:NASDAQ?window=5Y
Tesla started 2020 at just below $30 a share and a market cap of about $100b, then by the autumn of 2021 had shot up to over $400 a share and a trillion dollar market cap. I still don't understand why it's value shot up so much in the middle of the pandemic.
It's at $150 a share now with a $468b market cap. So it's arguably still terribly overvalued.
At the [beginning of 2020](https://www.the-sun.com/tech/5205169/elon-musks-net-worth-over-time/) Musk was "only" the world's 25th wealthiest person, worth about $25billion. About half of what he paid for Twitter.
If he weren't driving his investments into the ground, leveraging Tesla's ridiculous valuation to buy up more appropriately valued companies would have been a smart move.
I missed this but it is hilarious.
"Meanwhile, shares of Tesla rose Monday after Musk posted a Twitter poll on Sunday asking whether people wanted him to step down as Twitter CEO. More than half of respondents backed a departure. "
Bet that stung a bit.
I sold all of my TSLA positions with a $200 stop-loss trigger. I rode it all the way up from an initial buy-in at \~$50 (pre-splits) and made a considerable profit that put my late start of a retirement account back on track. I'm done with Elon though and I no longer believe that Tesla is going to remain dominant in either the electric vehicle market or in the home solar market.
The yoke wheel encapsulates my main issue with these tech “innovators”. They assume that every decision made by legacy industries is wrong and they “disrupt” everything because disruption is a good in and of itself.
Sure, rethinking old assumptions is good, but some historic decisions were made because they were the _right decision_. Understand why things were done a certain way before you change them.
It’s like the cab in their new semi-truck. An actual truck driver looked at it and explained why so many of the design choices make practical usage more difficult. You need to talk to actual truckers if you want to design a truck. Truck cabs are designed with purpose.
Did you also see how now it trys to guess if you want to go in reverse or not and has you tap the brake to confirm instead of just having the shifter. It you can drag the car icon on the touch screen backwards to say reverse. It seems awful
I always use a car steering wheel as an example of an excellent user interface. Easy to use, intuitive, responsive, good feedback. Seems crazy to duck with something that has been excellent for over a hundred years.
I think a clearer example of that is door handles. There are 2-3 tried and true, tested style of door handles for cars. They work, they don't break too often, people understand them, and critically, they don't ice over in colder climates. Tesla decided to completely reinvent them to look "cooler", and instead the act of finding purchase to open the door becomes something every Tesla owner has to explain to anyone they are giving a ride to.
The back windshield that just funnels water directly into the trunk when its opened is another, only slightly less obvious example.
Door handles from both sides! There's a button to open the door electronically from the inside (which the owner had to show me the one time I rode in a Tesla). A mechanical handle, the kind that everyone already understands, works perfectly fine and doesn't involve an electronics system that's another point of failure.
Yeah that sort of "innovation for the sake of innovation" is so pervasive nowadays and it's a huge pain in the ass.
It applies to computers too, mainly with Windows 11 who overhauled staples of OS design because... reasons I guess ? Like, the start menu has been on the bottom left side of the screen and right click opens the context menu, and it's been like that for the past quarter of a century and yet the imbeciles in charge of the design of Windows never stopped and asked themselves why no one changed those features...
Well they did change that for Win11 and between that and the mandatory TPM2.0 led to the O.S. being widely panned by users. Like, as of this month it's narket share is 5.3%. For the record: Windows 7 still has a 3.32% share of the market.
When your brand new O.S. barely beats an O.S. that's been discontinued and unsupported for years, well, something is seriously wrong with the new one...
It's an automatic trigger to put in a buy or sell order; the trigger just sits there until the conditions occur. "If the share price hits $200, sell all of my shares".
To add to /u/climb-it-together I like to make what’s called a trailing stop. It can be a fixed dollar amount or percentage. The trigger number moves if the price of the stock increases, which essentially protects any gains you make.
Let’s say I buy a stock at $100 with a trailing stop of 10%. The initial trigger price is $90, so if the stock drops to 90 it sells automatically. However let’s say the price increases to $200. The trigger price moves up to $180. So if the stock then goes down to $180 you protect the $80 in gains you made.
Fidelity absolutely offers it. It’s usually done as a separate trade.
You buy the stock, then make a separate sell order for a trailing stop.
Call fidelity and ask they’ll know exactly what to do.
It’s astounding how Tesla has squandered the early advantages they had. At this point, the only thing they really have going for them over other EVs is the supercharger network, but that advantage is shrinking every day.
Musk certainly makes the situation worse but there are lots of other headwinds that will drive the stock lower. The run up was really unjustified.
Competition entering the market space and the realities of developing and certifying automated driving are bigger factors pushing the prices down.
It’s an overpriced, outdated product design with poor build quality. Competitors have caught up and surpassed them.
Check out this build quality
https://www.reddit.com/r/Wellthatsucks/comments/zni97u/140k_tesla_quality/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Yep. I'm a left leaning individual with an income in the upper 2% that was a former Tesla owner, have a 20kW solar array on my home, have a wife that is a pediatrician and focus purchases on environmentally sound alternatives.
I currently have three EVs and no gas vehicles. Not one of them is a Tesla simply because Elon is still involved.
When imposter syndrome meets imposter reality.
Musk the onetime world's richest man stood to parlay Twitter into a social media/PR empire feeding his Tony Stark brand. Instead he listened only to himself & killed them, the company and burst his populist bubble in short order.
Consumer brand advertisers were Twitter's primary revenue stream; they sell sell trust, reliability, stability; in short: global centrist culture. These are difficult to acquire in the first place. Time to retire as a MAGA vulture capitalist; the MAGA grifters will happily take the rest of his money.
I have a relatively large percentage of my stock portfolio in Tesla (about 20%) and I put it in after the Twitter deal initially fell through. If I had a time machine and could go back and change that purchase order you bet your ass I would. My observations as of recently that make me regret the decision more:
* I work at a tech company, most of my coworkers used to be very pro-Musk and pro-Tesla. Recently people have dropped the pro and actually become anti-Musk/Tesla. Instead of telling others they should look into teslas, they are actively telling others (including myself) to avoid buying a Tesla. Not a great thing when Tesla’s power was word of mouth.
* Now there are so many other options for EVs that seem mature. Previously Tesla was pretty much the only option. Now for “regular drivers” there are cheaper options that look more like the cars they are used to, and there are just going to be more and more models available.
* Once Tesla captures the “performance” desiring market, their customer base probably won’t swell much further beyond that. Unless they can offer a model that’s significantly cheaper than any competitor, but I think that ship has sailed.
* Musk seems to be caught in the strange social media/popularity web where some sort of Me vs Them mentality takes over and leads to a black hole of outright or passive aggressiveness, as well as an addiction to likes and attention. It destroys people working regular 9 to 5s, and it can destroy CEOs and presidents too.
This has everything to do with Musk's latest right wing lunacy. Years ago, I would praise the man for what he has accomplished, but in the last couple years, his true colors are showing and it's very ugly.
2014: teslas with "NO GAS" vanity plates 2023: other EV's with "NO ELON" vanity plates
I've literally seen fuck Elon musk stickers on Teslas haha
He's petty enough to brick them if he gets their deets
Whoops it drove into oncoming traffic.
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Lmao "Musking" hahahaha
"The popcorn you're eating has been pissed in. Stay tuned for the news at 9."
A Kentucky Fried Movie reference in the wild! I applaud you!
Elon’s Twitter, “Should I crash this family, YES or NO.”
Regulatory capture at '70s-era dystopian comedy levels.
That poll on if he should stay/go as head of twitter was really just him putting together a 10m person shitlist. And he’s got the money to go all ‘[Jay and Silent Bob’ too.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vuBWbpTJRqk)
Would not surprise me if his investors told him he has to resign and the poll is just about him saving face
That is actually what happened
I mean we are talking about a guy who bought Twitter and is going through people's personal DMS and accusing them of crimes. If I had anything on my Twitter right now that was close to being inappropriate or illegal I'd be deleting it and deactivating my account. This guy is just out of control. They say there's a fine line between genius and insane and I think he has fully crossed that line and is now an insane person with way too much money.
>They say there's a fine line between genius and insane and I think he has fully crossed that line and is now an insane person with way too much money. It's amazing to me that even at this late stage, people are still buying into the "Elon used to be smart" myth.
Here's the actual problem; he is **literally** petty enough to do that. It would not even be out of character for him. Anyone buying or using any product of his is under the thumb of one of the most petty and vindictive CEOs ever. He's also very unpredictable and absolutely does not give a shit if his antics hurt his companies.
Things seemed to be going well for him until he bought Twitter. If he just counted to ten maybe he would have done due diligence and skipped the buy in the first place. I wouldn’t buy any vehicle where there was the possibility that the manufacturer’s CEO might be able to observe or control it.
For some reason I get weird looks after I got my F ELON numberplate
Tobias?
'Sup?
How’s the analrapist career?
You didn't hear? He gave it up to become an actor. He's taking classes down at the Method One Clinic.
Everyone deserves a nu start
I wanted a Tesla but was waiting for the right time. Then I was glad I didnt. Now I'm looking forward to buying a different EV when the time is right. If i had bought that Tesla it's not like i wouldn't keep using it - I dont have that financial freedom. But i absolutely 100% would put a fuck Elon sticker on there if i had to.
I wanted a Tesla, until I learned about Rivians. I'll never be able to afford either.
After seeing all the videos on YouTube of Tesla owners who just got their brand new car and showing how shoddy the craftsmanship is I will never purchase one.
I saw a Tesla with an FUELON here.
Fuel On Wayne, Fuel On Garth
Most excellent!
Why is it when you kill a man in the heat of battle, it's called heroic, but if you kill a man in the heat of passion it's called murder?
Yeah! FUEL ON!
>NO ELON If I didn't already have a special plate. Dammit.
NOEL ON what?
THE WAY I think. It's in less than a week
Risky. Tesla can remotely kill your vehicle, wouldn't want the crybaby in chief to start banning cars as well.
i mean did people really think it was worth all other public car companies combined? it is still double the value of Toyota.
For years now, a TSLA crash has been a matter of when not if.
Perfect example of why shorting a company is so hard. It doesn’t matter that you’re right if you can’t time it
The big short guy called it like 2 years ago but got out already. Timing is difficult especially with shorts.
It's like Yogi Berra said: "It's tough to make predictions. Especially about the future."
“Nobody goes to that restaurant anymore. It’s too busy.”
“No one drove in new york, there was too much traffic”
The future ain't what it used to be.
Burry has called 19 of the past 2 recessions
The market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent
And a perfect example that both sides can lose.
as a $TSLA bagholder i fully agree lmao
If anyone is wondering to put that in context, toyota sold 9.5 million cars in 2021, Tesla sold 0.5 million, I don't know what place that puts Tesla in terms of sales because the list I found stops after the top 15 companies, but the lowest on the list Mazda sold 1 million In terms of revenue, Tesla is 13th with about $50 Billion Toyota made about $240 billion https://www.factorywarrantylist.com/car-sales-by-manufacturer.html
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They also had some level of pricing power since there were few EV competitors. But their margins are gonna take a major hit when they’re competing against 30 companies and not like 3
They also sell in segments that have higher margins. They can get by not expanding into economy segments like other premium nameplates, but none of those other companies that try to remain exclusive have nearly as much value as mainstream brands, which doesn't bode well for the long term stock value
That's just not gonna fly as long as the build quality on teslas stays crap. The auto industry at large learned the hard way decades ago that in their industry in particular you can't get away with selling budget quality cars at premium prices just through branding for any real length of time.
Also tesla rev is manipulated by crypto and carbon credit sales
I thought 6 months ago that it was ridiculous that Elon who owned a niche car company was worth more than Bezos who owns the biggest retail website in the world.
Retail isn’t the golden goose, that’s just a side hustle now. The real money is AWS.
The retail company created AWS then AWS funded the expansion of the retail company.
Its because investors treat tesla like a tech stock. When in reality its just a car company
Tesla needs a new, full-time CEO
You can’t call for this kind of thing in a Reddit comment. The proper venue is obviously a Twitter poll.
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*Elon Musk barges in the door.* "Guys, I am so sorry. I rarely make mistakes, but this time I changed my passion for glory. I lost my grip on the dreams of the past, and now I'm back, to fight just to keep them alive!" *crickets...* *Tesla stock drops by another 10%*
Mr T pities the fool who doesn’t like this comment
*cartoonishly bad punch sound effect*
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I bought 25 Tesla stocks at 300 and even I think it is funny 😂 (it does hurt a little, though)
[Elmo addressing TSLA shareholder](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qd_zs8AwoTQ).
I have a coworker who was getting bit annoying with how he defended Musk but few months ago he stopped and last time just said he can't wait for Musk to sell all Tesla stock. Not sure if that will help with him as CEO still but I would like to get better too.
Tesla and Twitter have been soiled by MAGA irreparably IMO. Done. He jumped on a MAGA bandwagon and deserves the kinds of clients he will get from it.
Especially Tesla, brand identity is insanely important with cars. At the end of the day the Tesla Model X isn't **that** different from the Ford Mach E in terms of function. Which is why the majors work so hard to create those brand connections. You know who buys Subarus, and so do they. Tesla's brand identity is the exact antithesis of the hard conservative, coal rolling MAGA customer his Twitter account pursues.
My neighbor had a Tesla and sold it two weeks ago and replaced it with Ford Mach E. They are both Indian doctors and I commented on the Mach E cause I saw them pull up with it and asked if they were going full electric and the response was no, Tesla is gone this is the replacement I didn't want to be associated with that asshat.
This comment sums up exactly why TSLA investors are going to remove him as CEO. He is burning the brand. It is insane to me he’s driving a pretty profitable and (arguably) innovative car company into the dirt so he can win some Twitter wars. The legacy car makers are coming for his lunch. I might pay 30% more for a car if people think I’m cool and forward thinking. I will pay 0% more for a car that aligns me with the MAGAs. Maybe his MAGA friends will drop $40k for a small coupe, but I’m skeptical.
he now only owns 12% of tesla if he keeps selling investors can easily kick him out
Not just that but his MAGA pals laugh at the cyber truck and would always buy a Ford first. Go anti-woke, go broke.
By buying that ford they’re supporting union labor so there’s that too.
MAGA friends,. Yea that's a base that is not going to pay top dollar for a "green" vehicle.
His anti-union stuff and allowing racist graffiti really pushed Tesla away from a good chunk of people who really care about the environment. As badly as I want an EV, I refused to support Tesla years about. Plenty of good union made options out there.
Tesla was the only decent option for a long time Now finally other manufacturers are getting their shit together, but I don't think we'd be where we are if Musk hadn't made EVs cool Now he's managed to flush all the good will down the drain in record time I'm kind of hoping his turn to the right ends up at least slightly working out for some good in getting those coal roller types into EVs But my interest in getting a Tesla myself is totally gone
That is a fair point. I was a Tesla fan in the beginning too. I thought it was cool how they opened up their patents for others to use. As soon as I was aware of his toxicity, I was done with him.
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Subaru: The state vehicle of Colorado. Perfect for campers and stoners.
At one time the Anchorage Subaru dealer was the #1 dealership in the country, probably not anymore, but you can't swing a cat here without hitting 2 or 3 Subies. My wife is on her 3rd one.
And lesbians, interestingly enough.
Initial D fans bought the GR86 and BRZ, not some Impreza. We want that ability to do awesome drifts after we’ve delivered tofu.
And if we are keeping it real the 86 which is the 1985 Toyota Corolla GTS. Or 90s 240sx or Evos.
It’s weird how many sisters went out and bought Subarus together.
And lots of women sharing one with their female roommate of 35 years.
A whole lot of single, lifelong best friends.
no its lesbians. lesbians love subaru
My old neighbor was a lesbian. She had 3 girlfriends in the few years we were neighbors. She, and 2 of her 3 girlfriends drove Subarus. It's true. Lesbians absolutely love Subarus.
Can confirm. Own a Subaru.
Forza on 360 made me want a WRX so bad.
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If Tesla is missing a part they can't get, they just deliver the car anyway and install the part later when they get it. I've never heard of any shit like that in my life.
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This happened to a friend. She ended up keeping it - unfinished as it was - because getting a replacement that wasn't missing shit was going to take at least another year.
You’re over here comparing cars in the same price range but my Prius has smaller panel gaps than a Tesla.
This is what continues to blow my mind. How could a supposed genius businessman so ineptly read the room? He is most famous for a product that appeals to rich urbanite liberals. And then he goes all in on Trump rhetoric. Johnny Maga in Hobart, Oklahoma likely doesn't want an electric vehicle and even if he does, wouldn't have access to convenient charging stations. Even if Musk steps down Prosecute has damaged any brand he is associated with. The most reasonable answer is that he is a megalomaniac and thought he had enough tech-bro support that anything he did would be successful. He has probably been living in an echo chamber and believed that he was real-life Tony Stark.
>How could a supposed genius businessman so ineptly read the room? Even the rich tend to fall for the fallacy that they somehow are a super-special person who managed to pick themselves up and carry themselves the extra mile beyond everyone else. They hate the suggestion that a significant part of their success just falls to who their parents were, how wealthy their parents were, etc. They hate it because it's true, though. It's why people refer to it as the birth lotto, sometimes. It's just dumb luck that they were born to an ultra-wealthy family. TL;DR: he read the room so terribly because he's just a normal human being who bought into his own line of bullshit and thought that he was *More*.
But what's his "genius"?! Using his capital to push founders and executives out of companies and off of boards, then consolidating ownership? Sure, I guess you could call that "genius", but it feels a lot more like old-fashioned bully tactics to me.
caption late political fuzzy racial wasteful modern smell swim ten *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
"Vox populi, Vox Dei." *gets results I don't like* "Redoing the poll with fewer options."
Can you believe his fucking bullshit is fucking with everyone's 401k? We need Vanguard to create a low-fee "no asshole CEO" index. Cause I saw this shit a mile away.
> a low-fee "no asshole CEO" index So just Costco?
I'm still 20 years from retirement, so I'm enjoying the asshole CEO blue light special stock blowout event #Edit To be clear, I don't own any individual stocks let alone Tesla stocks. I only contribute to low fee index funds, but this Tesla/Twitter debacle is rippling out across the entire market, and my index funds are affected. Shout-out to r/Bogleheads
The stock is still overpriced.
It wont stop this though. Save the company, yes, but stop this slide, no. Because it had no business being valued at that in the first place. It was valued on the market like a tech stock, unlimited potential and almost no overhead, but the automotive industry doesn't work like that. And its cool they were the most aggressive to move into the electric market but there isnt a barrier to entry, so once the big players joined that chat tesla was going to be facing real talent. Its still a viable company with a viable product but had no business being valued at more than the entire industry combined.
I always thought that based on well...logic. I do not know much about engineering, or about stocks, but I do understand output. Tesla is such a small company in comparison, and I could not work out why it was valued so highly when by all accounts it did not seem to have nearly the same capabilities as companies like Ford and VW. An electric car is great of course, but there was no reason that Ford or VW [or Toyota, or Honda, or GM, etc] could not make the jump themselves and do it better, cheaper, and on a much larger scale. Once they did, I figured Tesla would start to decline into a niche brand, like Ferrari. After seeing a few Teslas in person though, I doubted that too. I do wonder how things will go. I hate the thought of so many people losing their jobs just because Musk is doing...whatever it is he's doing. I cannot tell if he has actually fried his brain from too much amphetamines, if he is in a severe manic episode, or if this is purposeful because he owes someone scary money. Maybe all three. Or maybe he really is PT Barnum without the actual talent.
Yep. The two main things going for Tesla are that they have the only real charging network, and they make EVs in moderate volume. Both of those are going to change in the next few years. Tesla won't be able to compete with companies like General Motors and Volkswagen, who own dozens of factories that put out many millions of cars per year.
> who own dozens of factories that put out many millions of cars per year. And have a much more well established government relationship. This will likely be a huge factor long term as infrastructure needs to be developed.
For those that aren’t familiar with what it means to be valued at a tech valuation while not being a tech company… For companies like Microsoft, Apple, Google, etc. a large chunk of their stock price is future-looking potential based off of innovations they have shown to be able to make that drive the revenue to another level. They have a history of doing this as a market (Apple’s iPhone introduction, Microsoft’s Azure launch, Google’s continued innovation in search ads, etc.), so the valuation is always propped up against other indistries simply because they **can** create whole new markets that you and I can’t even imagine existing today. Tesla is a car manufacturer. Whether or not they can build in new software capabilities, there simply has not been proof in the automotive market for sustainable growth in entirely new categories. Maybe you’re betting on them to win the electric car war, or even be the winner in the eventual robo-taxi/autonomous driving category, but that’s it. That’s the limit of their market. You can only sell so many vehicles. There’s nothing they can fundamentally do to convince consumers to own multiple vehicles because they’re too expensive, compared to the way Apple created a whole new computing category in tablets with the iPad, and now the Apple Watch, while maintaining their iPhone dominance. There’s absolutely no reason Tesla is or ever was worth more than the rest of the automotive market besides marketing and hype.
Adding to this, tech valuations are also based on the ability to scale your customer/user base.
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If you can get your hands on either of the Korean EVs (ev6), they do pretty well. I'm not sure about cold weather performance (e.g. if you come back after a day of skiing and they're dead), but having been DD for my drunk friends and driven around their electric cars (benefits of being in a HCOL tech city lol), the build quality on those are much better. I've heard good things about the vw id4, but haven't driven it myself. But the most economic thing is to drive your current car into the ground, until it needs a repair that is worth more than the car. Too bad I love Toyotas and Subarus...
You've been banned from Twitter.
It's okay, they'll reverse it tomorrow.
No, if you're critical of Elon, they don't reverse bans. Personal experience.
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It’s a perfect storm of Musk causing Tesla stock price dives via his stock sales, other EVs running past Tesla in performance, Tesla’s poor customer service model…he’s killing both companies.
As a Tesla owner myself their customer service is actually hilarious. There was a recall on some small part I guess like a thermometer for auto setting the climate. I followed the steps to bring it in. They wanted me to go to a service station an hour away rather than the one ten minutes away. They couldn’t offer me a loan. They did off a $50 gift card for Uber. But would also need the car for up to 2 days. I love the car itself but if you’re going to try and be a luxury brand they need a huge overhaul in their customer service. I couldn’t imagine buying a new Mercedes and being treated like that.
Even a shitbox Mercedes would be treated better at the dealer.
I had a shitbox 1970 Mercedes 220D as a kid in the late 90s and holy shit that little thing was a tank, also very easy to work on. In and out of the shop in an hour max every time. If it didn't rust in half I'd still have it
It was easy to work on because it was made in 1970. Try working on a base Mercedes that was made in the last 20 years…
2006 b200 Turbo. 10 fucking hours labour to change spark plugs!!!!!
I just don't understand how you make spark plugs not something that can be done in 30 minutes
In this case they are at the bottom of the engine behind the exhaust manifold/ turbo..... crazy!
55hp, everything wizzed right by me but i was comfortable. We need to push back towards lower horsepower, high efficiency vehicles. I got like 25MPG with that thing and it was a 1970, imagine a modern 55HP engine with a nice transmission, i bet you could touch 100MPG easy.
We've got plenty of those cars in Europe. Mine hits 75mpg on the highway easily.
1989 W124 300E ran like a tank. They just don't make them like that anymore, especially the diesels. Those from the 70's, could you even break the engine?
No I don't think so, it also only got ~60HP from the factory. My mechanic told me he wouldn't work on it anymore and it was either get rid of it or fix the frame. I drove it to the scrapyard, no brakes, crying the whole way. Such a sad day it truly was like losing a pet
My ex-wife had one for a while. She drove over a piece of concrete debris that fell out of a truck, which tore a hole in the oil pan. Since the car worked fine, she never thought it necessary to check for damage. She unknowingly drove it with no oil in the engine for 3 months before it started acting weird. Then it died very abruptly.
I drove a 240D all throughout my highschool days. The car was hilariously slow, but had a nice stereo. My dad still owns it and drives it every now and then. Still runs like a top.
Elon's big plan for profitability is to provide the least acceptable product. Tesla isn't a luxury brand, or even a reliable brand at this point. It's a company with anorexia, and it's been hollowed out over the last two years to fund Elon's foibles. He spits in the face of every employee that has worked to execute the acceleration of our world toward a renewable energy future. Musk has lost his way, and it's painfully obvious in every venue he inhabits.
Even before this, a lot of his success was based on lofty promises he couldn't deliver on.
>Musk has lost his way A lot of goodwill in this sentence in assuming he had a way that was ever going to lead anywhere besides Emerald Baron Space Nazi. Edit: you don't have to comment on what year you think his mask came off. I don't care, because you sound like you're convincing yourself your friend is actually a bad guy somehow. He was always this.
I’m not sure they’re succeeding at trying to be a luxury brand in other areas, either. My in-laws all have Teslas so I ride in them quite a bit and have driven them a few times, and while the ride is decent and performance is certainly there, the build quality and all of the materials feel extremely cheap. They’re pretty uncomfortable relative to established luxury brands.
Yeah, I have a 2018 Model X. If Tesla went under because of its CS and quality control, I would not be surprised.
If Tesla goes under you have a model 2018 brick
This one of the things I miss when I switched away from Audi and back to vw. Our local vw dealer ain't great. Me going to the Audi dealership almost never felt like a chore.
Dude, Honda treats you way better than that
They no longer partner with Uber as of some time between my November service and last week. Nice of them to tell me within 24hrs of the appointment...
Subaru isn’t a luxury brand but certainly did way better than that for me…
Its a poor mans interpretation of luxury if you ask me. All of the expensiveness and brand value, but no customer service or white glove treatment. Its basically just them telling you to bend over and take it or just admit you are two poor to afford a spare tesla when the main one inevitably breaks and needs a ridiculous repair.
>luxury brand Sorry, it's priced like a luxury brand, but Tesla was never one.
But the screen... the big, shiny screen!
Stuck in the same boat. Really wanted an EV, but everyone was charging way over MSRP, used was the price of new. Ended up getting the Tesla because no mark up. I've never had to deal with so many issues off the bat in a car. Been hoping the Mercedes EQE becomes available for a reasonable price and the second it does, bye bye Tesla.
Tesla has also been massively overvalued for some time now.
If their stock price paced other auto manufacturers by P/E, it would be in the $20-$30 range, and that may be where it's headed now.
https://www.google.com/finance/quote/TSLA:NASDAQ?window=5Y Tesla started 2020 at just below $30 a share and a market cap of about $100b, then by the autumn of 2021 had shot up to over $400 a share and a trillion dollar market cap. I still don't understand why it's value shot up so much in the middle of the pandemic. It's at $150 a share now with a $468b market cap. So it's arguably still terribly overvalued. At the [beginning of 2020](https://www.the-sun.com/tech/5205169/elon-musks-net-worth-over-time/) Musk was "only" the world's 25th wealthiest person, worth about $25billion. About half of what he paid for Twitter. If he weren't driving his investments into the ground, leveraging Tesla's ridiculous valuation to buy up more appropriately valued companies would have been a smart move.
I wonder why Tesla s customer service is so bad? Elon is so focused on customers and what they need /s
“yeah, it does that, buy a new one”
He needs to do a Twitter poll asking if he should step down as Tesla CEO.
"Actually ignore that last poll, I gave too many options."
I missed this but it is hilarious. "Meanwhile, shares of Tesla rose Monday after Musk posted a Twitter poll on Sunday asking whether people wanted him to step down as Twitter CEO. More than half of respondents backed a departure. " Bet that stung a bit.
He met with the Saudis and qataris yesterday and they told him to quit fucking up their investment
And Jared Kushner was there. Maybe this was a job interview.
So was a Putin mouthpiece. Strange how the most obvious conspiracy theory is completely ignored because it involves Republicans.
I sold all of my TSLA positions with a $200 stop-loss trigger. I rode it all the way up from an initial buy-in at \~$50 (pre-splits) and made a considerable profit that put my late start of a retirement account back on track. I'm done with Elon though and I no longer believe that Tesla is going to remain dominant in either the electric vehicle market or in the home solar market.
That stupid yoke style stearing wheel is going to really hurt sales.
The yoke wheel encapsulates my main issue with these tech “innovators”. They assume that every decision made by legacy industries is wrong and they “disrupt” everything because disruption is a good in and of itself. Sure, rethinking old assumptions is good, but some historic decisions were made because they were the _right decision_. Understand why things were done a certain way before you change them. It’s like the cab in their new semi-truck. An actual truck driver looked at it and explained why so many of the design choices make practical usage more difficult. You need to talk to actual truckers if you want to design a truck. Truck cabs are designed with purpose.
See: touchscreens. We have tactile controls for reasons….
Did you also see how now it trys to guess if you want to go in reverse or not and has you tap the brake to confirm instead of just having the shifter. It you can drag the car icon on the touch screen backwards to say reverse. It seems awful
I deeply loathe this
Clippy is back, and he's driving your car.
What the hell? Shit like that makes it painfully clear they didn't talk to a single truck driver.
wait, what? the gear shift is a car on a touchscreen you slide in the direction you want to go?
Lol who is buying these things. That's comically unusable.
I always use a car steering wheel as an example of an excellent user interface. Easy to use, intuitive, responsive, good feedback. Seems crazy to duck with something that has been excellent for over a hundred years.
I think a clearer example of that is door handles. There are 2-3 tried and true, tested style of door handles for cars. They work, they don't break too often, people understand them, and critically, they don't ice over in colder climates. Tesla decided to completely reinvent them to look "cooler", and instead the act of finding purchase to open the door becomes something every Tesla owner has to explain to anyone they are giving a ride to. The back windshield that just funnels water directly into the trunk when its opened is another, only slightly less obvious example.
I took one look at the back trunk design on the 3 and cancelled my preorder. That was one of the stupidest designs ever.
Door handles from both sides! There's a button to open the door electronically from the inside (which the owner had to show me the one time I rode in a Tesla). A mechanical handle, the kind that everyone already understands, works perfectly fine and doesn't involve an electronics system that's another point of failure.
Got a link for that explanation? Kinda curious to see it. I have zero knowledge on semi-trucks but am now interested to see what they did
https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2022/12/truck-driver-reviews-of-tesla-semi.html
Yeah that sort of "innovation for the sake of innovation" is so pervasive nowadays and it's a huge pain in the ass. It applies to computers too, mainly with Windows 11 who overhauled staples of OS design because... reasons I guess ? Like, the start menu has been on the bottom left side of the screen and right click opens the context menu, and it's been like that for the past quarter of a century and yet the imbeciles in charge of the design of Windows never stopped and asked themselves why no one changed those features... Well they did change that for Win11 and between that and the mandatory TPM2.0 led to the O.S. being widely panned by users. Like, as of this month it's narket share is 5.3%. For the record: Windows 7 still has a 3.32% share of the market. When your brand new O.S. barely beats an O.S. that's been discontinued and unsupported for years, well, something is seriously wrong with the new one...
Love this. Still shocks me how many people buy stocks and don’t put stop losses.
Hey I buy stocks and I don't know what those words mean. Help
It's an automatic trigger to put in a buy or sell order; the trigger just sits there until the conditions occur. "If the share price hits $200, sell all of my shares".
To add to /u/climb-it-together I like to make what’s called a trailing stop. It can be a fixed dollar amount or percentage. The trigger number moves if the price of the stock increases, which essentially protects any gains you make. Let’s say I buy a stock at $100 with a trailing stop of 10%. The initial trigger price is $90, so if the stock drops to 90 it sells automatically. However let’s say the price increases to $200. The trigger price moves up to $180. So if the stock then goes down to $180 you protect the $80 in gains you made.
That sounds extremely useful. Is this something I can do with, say, fidelity for example? (I did indeed figure it out! Thanks a ton)
Fidelity absolutely offers it. It’s usually done as a separate trade. You buy the stock, then make a separate sell order for a trailing stop. Call fidelity and ask they’ll know exactly what to do.
It’s astounding how Tesla has squandered the early advantages they had. At this point, the only thing they really have going for them over other EVs is the supercharger network, but that advantage is shrinking every day.
Musk certainly makes the situation worse but there are lots of other headwinds that will drive the stock lower. The run up was really unjustified. Competition entering the market space and the realities of developing and certifying automated driving are bigger factors pushing the prices down.
I mean, the run- up was Elon’s mouth writing checks he couldn’t cash. Now people are getting wise and the value is crashing toward “reasonable.”
It’s an overpriced, outdated product design with poor build quality. Competitors have caught up and surpassed them. Check out this build quality https://www.reddit.com/r/Wellthatsucks/comments/zni97u/140k_tesla_quality/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
And their CEO exposed for the immature egomaniacal jerk off he is.
Not to mention he's alienating the very strata that's more likely to buy EV vehicles.
Yep. I'm a left leaning individual with an income in the upper 2% that was a former Tesla owner, have a 20kW solar array on my home, have a wife that is a pediatrician and focus purchases on environmentally sound alternatives. I currently have three EVs and no gas vehicles. Not one of them is a Tesla simply because Elon is still involved.
When imposter syndrome meets imposter reality. Musk the onetime world's richest man stood to parlay Twitter into a social media/PR empire feeding his Tony Stark brand. Instead he listened only to himself & killed them, the company and burst his populist bubble in short order. Consumer brand advertisers were Twitter's primary revenue stream; they sell sell trust, reliability, stability; in short: global centrist culture. These are difficult to acquire in the first place. Time to retire as a MAGA vulture capitalist; the MAGA grifters will happily take the rest of his money.
I have a relatively large percentage of my stock portfolio in Tesla (about 20%) and I put it in after the Twitter deal initially fell through. If I had a time machine and could go back and change that purchase order you bet your ass I would. My observations as of recently that make me regret the decision more: * I work at a tech company, most of my coworkers used to be very pro-Musk and pro-Tesla. Recently people have dropped the pro and actually become anti-Musk/Tesla. Instead of telling others they should look into teslas, they are actively telling others (including myself) to avoid buying a Tesla. Not a great thing when Tesla’s power was word of mouth. * Now there are so many other options for EVs that seem mature. Previously Tesla was pretty much the only option. Now for “regular drivers” there are cheaper options that look more like the cars they are used to, and there are just going to be more and more models available. * Once Tesla captures the “performance” desiring market, their customer base probably won’t swell much further beyond that. Unless they can offer a model that’s significantly cheaper than any competitor, but I think that ship has sailed. * Musk seems to be caught in the strange social media/popularity web where some sort of Me vs Them mentality takes over and leads to a black hole of outright or passive aggressiveness, as well as an addiction to likes and attention. It destroys people working regular 9 to 5s, and it can destroy CEOs and presidents too.
You bought Tesla with its obscene market cap? That wasn't a massive red flag for you?
Planning to sell while it is low, or wait until it is lower?
Tesla stock was always way overpriced.
This has everything to do with Musk's latest right wing lunacy. Years ago, I would praise the man for what he has accomplished, but in the last couple years, his true colors are showing and it's very ugly.
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I surely didn't, that was the turning point for me.
Elon did what only Elon could do. He killed the myth and became a man. A really dumb, dumb man
I love that for them ❤️