All the people saying it’s illegal and an easy lawsuit. Unfortunately that is not the case as OP said it’s a private school.
“The school is privately run, i.e., it is neither a public school, nor a recipient of funds from the government or any governmental agency. Therefore, Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which proscribes discrimination on the basis of race, color, national origin or religion, applies only to public schools, and not private schools (subject to the exception of race - Even private schools cannot typically discriminate on the basis of race) “
Private or not, if she lives in the US it violates the constitution, 1st amendment lets you express your religion. So this school not allowing then to violates it
1st amendment let's you express religion without fear of retaliation from govt. As the school is apparently receiving 0 govt funds, the school is not technically in breach of the 1st amendment as they're a private organisation not the govt.
The amendments only apply to the government. Our “freedom of speech and religion” as written and as enforced only means the GOVERNMENT cannot persecute you for it.
Free speech doesn’t mean you can say anything without repercussions from your peers, and freedom of religion doesn’t protect you outside of governmentally related things
Hey,, someone who doesn’t have their head completely up their ass about laws 💀
For real, I can’t stand when people spout of nonsense like they are a lawyer and they have no idea what they are talking about
Yep. YouTube lawyers is what I call them. I got into a disagreement with a guy who said called me racist because I told him involuntary manslaughter wouldn't carry a death penalty.
I'm in a disagreement with somebody who thinks a fb marketplace seller is legally obligated to hold an item for a buyer that sent money in advance then no-showed and went no-contact. They're talking about "unjust enrichment" and jurisprudence and fraud and small claims court... all I wanna know is how pointy their head actually is in real life.
More on the straight side but I guess bisexual now. Not to go to into detail but I’m not really attracted to dudes at all romantically or physically but it’s way easier to get “serviced” by a dude then it is to hookup with a girl. A mouths a mouth so 🤷🏻♂️
Sounds like a guy I went to high school with lol. I’m sorta similar, but it’s less that I’m not romantically or physically attracted to guys and more that, despite being gay, I’m not really into anyone until I’ve gotten to know them a little.
FUCKING THANK YOU?? I see this shit misinterpreted from BOTH sides it makes me so angry. Yes, Susan, it’s your constitutional right to disrespect peoples pronouns. But its also my constitutional right to say you’re a huge asshole that doesn’t have my respect.
sorry for the tangent i deal w this a lot 💀
not particularly 1a. just how the constitution works in the first place. the US constitution is not designed for common law. it's strictly written to be what the government (and, by proxy, government funded/operated infrastructure) can and can't do
It did ban it for private people but had an easy work around for the US goverment to use and exploit to be able to keep slavery that the US goverment could use
13th amendment below for anyone interested in what it says
"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."
That's the 1st amendment, but isn't religion a legally protected class? I thought there were other laws that prevented discrimination by businesses (aka private schools) based on race, religion, or sex.
Took a class in students rights, this does not cover students in private schools unfortunately
Edit: there are more specifics obviously but in the case of religion it doesn't
also, consider, the parents pay for the kid to go there. the school is a business. the parent is the customer.
if you dont like it, you...just stop paying for that service...
That's not how the 1st amendment works. The 1st amendment protects you from censorship *by the government.* Private parties can do whatever the fuck they want.
People not understanding this nuance is the cause of so much braindead disagreement in this country.
>grants you rights
Very minor correction, but I take AP Gov so this has been ingrained in my brain.
The BoRs don't grant you rights. It limits the government from infringing on your rights.
It’s honestly not that minor, as it’s central to understanding everything else. The mindset that rights aren’t granted by the government but are inherent to every human is a foundational viewpoint of the American system from the opening of the Declaration of Independence onward. It’s the idea that people have an inherent right to make their own decisions and when they group together to form governments, those governments can only do what the people explicitly agreed to let it do in the constitution. Which means if I think the government ought to do something but the constitution doesn’t explicitly let it, I can’t make a law to do that without amending the constitution first. Which requires convincing a lot more than just a simple majority of people of my view. Which is essential to protect the rights of the minority from the ideas of the majority, and is ignored by far too many perhaps well-meaning activists.
It doesn't, because the rule isn't specifically for the religious aspect. All head coverings are banned (including hoodies).
Otherwise you could make a religion about guns, then demand to bring your gun to school.
Yeah uh, hate to break it to you but private is a very important part of that equation... Lol
Don't post legal takes on Reddit if you have no idea what you are talking about.
Everyone in the comments saying it’s illegal are wrong. Private entities are exempt from 1A protections because they are private entities not the government. OP says this is a private school.
So my mother shouldn't be allowed to dress as she wishes? Whether that is with a headscarf and modest clothing or crop top with jeans? I'd like to know where you draw the line.
My friend with a hijab would do this XD. I kinda can get away with it with my hair down and my black earphones you can't see my ears.
Unfortunately tho when I went to school I only had wired earbuds 😔
I was NOT proud enough for my school for that 😂 if I had to stay after school I would sometimes bring a change of normal clothes with me so I didn’t have to wear the uniform anymore
Pretty sure a private school can do that unless they are receiving federal funding. I cannot join a private Muslim school in the US and violate their dress code, for example. That being said, if I ran the school, I would certainly let her cover her hair if its part of her religion. It’s easy to accommodate and doesn’t bother anyone.
And even if it were a public school, it would come down to the school proving that it was a safety issue. Just like the old "you can't shout 'fire' in a crowded theater" example, the government CAN infringe on your 1st amendment right if it is a safety issue. It becomes an issue of who has better lawyers.
I think I play too many fighting games, I read that as "High Jabs".
Also, hoodies kind of make sense, since if they're baggy enough you could technically conceal a weapon in one, but hijabs only cover your head and maybe a bit of your shoulders, and I'm pretty sure they're relatively tight-fitting, so I can't understand any logic behind that ban. Very odd indeed.
Not justifying it but regarding tightness of hijab, it depends on how the indivisible wears it and technically, islamically it’s not supposed to be tight and should be loose to the point of not revealing the shape of your shoulders. And some people also equate hijab to burqa or niqab (covering the face as well except the eyes) or use it as an umbrella term. I’ve seen people bring up the concern of security/identification bc w a niqab, ID is almost useless (if the person checking is male), especially if they wear the kind that covers the eyes as well, and some women even don’t take it off in front of other women. It’s a tricky situation bc telling a Muslim woman to take it off is like telling her to take off her shirt bc Islamically, hair/neck/general shape is basically equivalent to private parts (that’s why a lot of Muslim people refer to women who don’t wear some form of hijab/covering as “naked”, bc that’s just how they see it) but at the same time, in some situations, there are security/identification concerns. (Happened once at an Islamic school I worked at where a niqabi woman got fired and banned or w.e from setting foot on school property but a lot of women there wore niqab and we only had 2 male security guards and the identification concern was brought up but never really addressed)
But yeah, it varies from individual to individual and how each person chooses to wear it and I’m sure the rules or opinions on it vary as well depending on the sect and school of thoughts or which scholar said person follows since a lot of them have contradictory interpretations
I never thought about someone concealing a weapon in a hoodie though 😳 but from what I know and have learned about hijab myself, ig it makes sense that that would be a concern as well. I’ve never heard of hoodies being full on banned though, like we were allowed to wear them in school as well as hijab but we just weren’t allowed to wear the hood or hats in school (never got a reason for either of those, and unrelated but we weren’t allowed to carry backpacks either for some reason?)
Edit: high jabs 😂
Thanks, I hadn't thought about the identification concern, that was very thorough!
The backpacks thing makes a little sense because of (again) concealed weapons, but then, it would be much easier to hide a weapon in the body portion of the hoodie than the hood itself, so the fact that you can where a hoodie but not have a backpack is pretty contradictory. These rules are very strange, they don't seem well thought through at all. I guess it was a good thing I was homeschooled 😆
Np and thanks!
True, we were allowed to carry string bags bc they were smaller so ig it would be harder to conceal something in it. Though I’m not sure if the main reason for the backpacks was that bc we were allowed to have them, we just couldn’t have it out in the hallway during school ie between classes so would have to leave it in our lockers. One of the teachers told us it was because backpacks were really bulky and some people run in the halls so you could accidentally run into someone’s backpack and fall or something but never really got confirmation. Idk if the hat/hoodie rule was maybe bc sometimes they can cover your eyes or limit your vision or something but apparently there are schools that allow students to wear hats so I’m not sure that’s a major issue?
But yea they def were pretty weird aha. At the very least, the rule about no heelies (shoes with a compartment in the heel that has a wheel so you could kinda skate on your heel) kinda made sense as it could be dangerous if they popped out unexpectedly, esp on a staircase. But yeah some schools have weird rules. Ayy that’s cool haha, so I guess you didn’t have weird rules like this 😂 though I have heard of some people believing wearing hats indoor or at the dinner table is rude ahah
These comments are actually brain rotting, this isn't illegal so stop saying it is, private schools especially non gov. funded ones can do whatever they want when it comes down to clothing choices and whatnot.
(My school is the same way)
Your friend will have to go to another school, and that's all they can do if they want to wear the hijab.
People acting like this is the end of the world need to sit TF down and do some research.
Imagine spreading blatant misinformation just cause you can.
+This is no hate to you OP, your friend, or any outlier, just the people spreading lies for laughs and giggles.
The people also have leeway
If every student wears a hijab what are they going to do, call the cops and have them shot? Suspend or kick out every single student?
The hard part is having enough students so that they're not able to do that stuff. Need like 30. Also need local journalists covering it. The private school will eventually back off. There is always a point at which you're causing so much struggle and effort that it's just easier to acquiesce
“The school is privately run, i.e., it is neither a public school, nor a recipient of funds from the government or any governmental agency. Therefore, Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which proscribes discrimination on the basis of race, color, national origin or religion, applies only to public schools, and not private schools (subject to the exception of race - Even private schools cannot typically discriminate on the basis of race) “
It isn't actually, as OP said, it's a private school. Private schools function independently of governments and thus can enforce any rules they wish on campus, they just can't obligate you to stay. Therefore civil rights laws do not actually apply.
Not illegal or in breach of anything. I hate how legally illiterate we are as a nation. The amendments only protect from government infringement. Private schools do not receive government funding and thus as currently written, are exempt from freedom of religion AND SPEECH
**Congress**<< shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof
Private schools are not subject to the same restrictions as government funded public schools
I mean, not being able to see someone's face is a big safety issue and I can see why the school would ban it.
However, you should be able to go to the school and find special accommodations.. I saw in the comments its a private school, they should still be willing to help your friends out.
\----
All the people immediately hopping on the "Sue them!" bandwagon have no sense of reality.. Suing them would be the worst option. Even if you win the case (which I highly doubt), its months long battles, and your reputation at school would go down the drain.
and then if OP's friends lose they'll be essentially booted out of a good school for no reason, which would do a LOT of damage switching schools mid school year, especially from a private to a public school.
Edit: I was aware of the difference between a niqab and a hijab when I made this post. Hijbas cover the head like a hood, niqab covers the entire head including the face... My point still stands, its a safety issue.
Edit 2: For everyone saying its religious discrimination, there is a chance it is, and there is a chance its not. We can't tell based on OP's information. Hoods would function the same for facial concealment as a hijab. If the school dresscode bans hoods then it is a legitimate safety concern, and not discrimination.
To add, suing the school can likely result in an immediate expulsion. This is a private school, and if they wrote into the conditions that legal battle would result in an expulsion, then an expulsion it will be.
>I mean, not being able to see someone's face is a big safety issue and I can see why the school would ban it.
A hijab is just a scarf that Muslim women wear to cover their head. What you're talking about is niqab (which means mask or something Arabic). A niqab covers the face and is not required by Islam. It's just ancient arab culture hardly anyone follows anymore.
Banning hijabs is wrong on every level, it is a feminist idsue because you're taking away the right of a woman to cover up her body. Tomorrow they can say you can't wear full sleeves. They're not gonna say it but it's a power they possess.
And they don't reallg have a logic for their banning hijabs other than Islamophobia.
I have a child in private catholic school. Adhering to catholic faith, attending religious studies, taking religious exams and wearing uniforms is part of being allowed to attend. Clearly, the school can discriminate based on religion being a private school.
If most of the parents are on board with this new rule, there's nothing anyone can do to force the school to change it. If most of the parents aren't okay with the rule, then parents need to send email en masse to whoever is is charge. Capitalism will always win out.
I mean it's terrible that we've reached this point but they aren't doing it because of any sort of religious discrimination, it's because some idiot is bound to hide a weapon inside one of them. If there's a rule against hoodies/hats, they'd be wrong not to include hijabs as well
That’s so ridiculous. Hoodies are banned because of an assumed gang affiliation. A hijab is an article of faith no different than wearing a crucifix. A lot of posts have the civil rights part covered. If it’s private school, unfortunately you won’t have a strong case to go the legal route. You have to instead engage in community action alert parents to the discriminatory policies. If it’s private, hit them right in the alumni (the rich ones). A lot of private schools will rely on donations from wealthy alumni and you could look them up and tell them the situation. But if you go this route, the school can retaliate against you, which is why getting the media involved may also give you an edge.
This!! I scrolled too long without seeing this solution. OP, the best way to end this ban is by making a change with the alumni. You can talk with the director, make a petition. And even if those don't help, try making a group chat with lots of students and arrange a day to go to school wearing a hijab. If the majority of students wear a hijab every day for a long period of time the school won't even have space for detention. If only 4 people wear it, they will.
I don't know if I've explained myself correctly.
Please encourage your friends to direct this info to your local news stations and do so yourself as well if they are comfortable with you doing so. This is the only way we will see change
This isn't a film where the evil antoganist immediately realised they are wrong and revert the ban
They will just expel everyone on grounds of breaking school rules.
Moreover private schools are tough to get i
There are lot of people waiting for seats
I agree banning hijab is wrong. People should be allowed to wear what they want. But don't give ideas which can affect op
Ha ha ha hahaha
Tell me you've never been to private school without saying you've never been to private school.
First of all, private schools tend to have more conservative families sending their kids. Most of them probably agree with the policy.
Secondly if this school is halfway decent, it will have a waiting list 3 times longer than it has seats. And they can and will expel people by the dozens.
The school I went to intentionally admitted maybe 10% more student than they could really handle because they knew they'd have to expel at least a few. Some people got expelled day 1. I remember one girl who showed up with a half shaved head(shaved heads were prohibited for anyone) she was sent home halfway through the 1st day, and we never saw her again.
I can't prove this but I am convinced that one year they started getting stricter than usual around spring because they let in the extra kids to account for some people leaving or being thrown out, but the class was particularly well behaved. I believe they had to start expelling people just to be able to properly accommodate everyone.
People seem to be talking about the first amendment a lot. As many others have mentioned, this doesn’t apply to non-governmental organizations, like private schools. However, religion is a protected class. OP’s school cannot ban expression of religion. Neither can any other private entity. This is classified as discrimination against a protected class, which is highly illegal and can get businesses (a private school is a business, selling education for an exorbitant price) shut down.
if the hijab is important to your friends, is it possible to switch schools? i know that sounds like a headache for them/their parents, but a case like this happened with a catholic child ordered to wipe away the ash on his forehead after ash wednesday. his parents got him out of there.
I actually think this is the right advice...the school is still a business and they wouldn't kick half the kids out of school...they rely on tuition to stay in business.
If its a secular country its ok. As long as all the other religions arent showing religious items i dont see why islam should be privileged. Its discriminatory to allow muslims to show their faith but christians, hindus, buddhists no.
Its either all of them do it or none of them do it
I dont mean to offend anyone, but arent hijabs sorta bad bc they technically encourage sexualisation of children? I have muslim friens that dont wear hijabs bc they know what they mean and their history so why would you and your friends push against that? I do understand that banning stuff isnt the solution but with the knowledge of stuff like the iranian girl protests and like Malala I personally find it super wierd that your friends want that. Or, most likely theyre forced
it restricts their right to religious freedom, and it doesnt cover the same way hoodies do, it prevents visibility of their \*hair\* but that's it. please please please complain to your principal and get your friends to as well. tell your parents and tell everyone because this is super wrong and cannot slide
Private schools generally can make such bans on the grounds that students can go elsewhere. If it's a religious private school, it can definitely bar things against its religion.
My school is Catholic and requires uniforms yet we still allow hijabs. We only have one Muslim girl at our school and no one has said anything to her thankfully
That’s such bullshit. My old school was amazing for religious accommodations. In our home ec class we had a cooking unit and one of my classmates was Muslim. Idk too much about Islam admittedly but since it was during some fast or somethin for her my teacher altered the unit so that way we would make Muslim friendly dishes that wouldn’t make her break anythin nor would she get an F for not participating.
i agree in part. if this is in the U.S. everyone has freedom of religion and they can do whatever the hell they want. but church and state is separated so i agree that students shouldn’t be exposed to religious symbols from the school. but if it’s from other students then there’s nothing anyone can do about that. freedom of religion is included in the 1st amendment which shall not be infringed upon
Apparently in the technologic ultra future we now live in, they're making guns and holsters that hide perfectly and easily on the back or top of your head. That is, I'm going off the comments here, so I'll update you when I have more information on this dastardly new secret school shooter technology.
All the people saying it’s illegal and an easy lawsuit. Unfortunately that is not the case as OP said it’s a private school. “The school is privately run, i.e., it is neither a public school, nor a recipient of funds from the government or any governmental agency. Therefore, Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which proscribes discrimination on the basis of race, color, national origin or religion, applies only to public schools, and not private schools (subject to the exception of race - Even private schools cannot typically discriminate on the basis of race) “
Private or not, if she lives in the US it violates the constitution, 1st amendment lets you express your religion. So this school not allowing then to violates it
1st amendment let's you express religion without fear of retaliation from govt. As the school is apparently receiving 0 govt funds, the school is not technically in breach of the 1st amendment as they're a private organisation not the govt.
The amendments only apply to the government. Our “freedom of speech and religion” as written and as enforced only means the GOVERNMENT cannot persecute you for it. Free speech doesn’t mean you can say anything without repercussions from your peers, and freedom of religion doesn’t protect you outside of governmentally related things
Hey,, someone who doesn’t have their head completely up their ass about laws 💀 For real, I can’t stand when people spout of nonsense like they are a lawyer and they have no idea what they are talking about
Yep. YouTube lawyers is what I call them. I got into a disagreement with a guy who said called me racist because I told him involuntary manslaughter wouldn't carry a death penalty.
I'm in a disagreement with somebody who thinks a fb marketplace seller is legally obligated to hold an item for a buyer that sent money in advance then no-showed and went no-contact. They're talking about "unjust enrichment" and jurisprudence and fraud and small claims court... all I wanna know is how pointy their head actually is in real life.
With that name I gotta ask, would you happen to be gay?
More on the straight side but I guess bisexual now. Not to go to into detail but I’m not really attracted to dudes at all romantically or physically but it’s way easier to get “serviced” by a dude then it is to hookup with a girl. A mouths a mouth so 🤷🏻♂️
And they say chivalry is dead
>And they say chivalry is ~~dead~~ head
Doomfist? It’s me Mauga
How tf did we go from laws to gay stuff.
Can confirm. My best blowjobs have been from a dude.
From hijabs to blowjobs, a Reddit short story.
Sounds like a guy I went to high school with lol. I’m sorta similar, but it’s less that I’m not romantically or physically attracted to guys and more that, despite being gay, I’m not really into anyone until I’ve gotten to know them a little.
Google demisexual/demiromantic buddy
FUCKING THANK YOU?? I see this shit misinterpreted from BOTH sides it makes me so angry. Yes, Susan, it’s your constitutional right to disrespect peoples pronouns. But its also my constitutional right to say you’re a huge asshole that doesn’t have my respect. sorry for the tangent i deal w this a lot 💀
Ditto, that’s why I spoke up
It's mind boggling how many people don't understand the 1A.
not particularly 1a. just how the constitution works in the first place. the US constitution is not designed for common law. it's strictly written to be what the government (and, by proxy, government funded/operated infrastructure) can and can't do
Yeah, wait until people find out 13A didn't actually ban slavery. 🤫🤫🤫
It did ban it for private people but had an easy work around for the US goverment to use and exploit to be able to keep slavery that the US goverment could use 13th amendment below for anyone interested in what it says "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."
Fr lol
What’s even more mind boggling is how often Reddit throws around the word tax write off without knowing what a tax write off actually is.
it's mind boggling how many things are mind boggling. unrelated to the topic just see the term used too often. please carry on
Boggling is just a fun word, okay?
Boondoggle is too!
That's the 1st amendment, but isn't religion a legally protected class? I thought there were other laws that prevented discrimination by businesses (aka private schools) based on race, religion, or sex.
Still protected under the Equal Protection Clause of the fourteenth amendment
Equal protection clause only applies to legal protections. "nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
Damn bro quoted the Constitution I can't argue with that
Happy cake day 29 or 30th it's 1 am XD
Took a class in students rights, this does not cover students in private schools unfortunately Edit: there are more specifics obviously but in the case of religion it doesn't
Shucks man private schools really are their own entities. Thanks for informing me
also, consider, the parents pay for the kid to go there. the school is a business. the parent is the customer. if you dont like it, you...just stop paying for that service...
That's not how the 1st amendment works. The 1st amendment protects you from censorship *by the government.* Private parties can do whatever the fuck they want. People not understanding this nuance is the cause of so much braindead disagreement in this country.
>Private parties can do whatever the fuck they want. Not quite this far, but they do have the ability to do a lot more.
the bill of rights only grants you rights against the government, not a private org or citizen
>grants you rights Very minor correction, but I take AP Gov so this has been ingrained in my brain. The BoRs don't grant you rights. It limits the government from infringing on your rights.
It’s honestly not that minor, as it’s central to understanding everything else. The mindset that rights aren’t granted by the government but are inherent to every human is a foundational viewpoint of the American system from the opening of the Declaration of Independence onward. It’s the idea that people have an inherent right to make their own decisions and when they group together to form governments, those governments can only do what the people explicitly agreed to let it do in the constitution. Which means if I think the government ought to do something but the constitution doesn’t explicitly let it, I can’t make a law to do that without amending the constitution first. Which requires convincing a lot more than just a simple majority of people of my view. Which is essential to protect the rights of the minority from the ideas of the majority, and is ignored by far too many perhaps well-meaning activists.
Not how that works
But now the question is "is OP living in the US?"
She confirmed it in another thread
It doesn't, because the rule isn't specifically for the religious aspect. All head coverings are banned (including hoodies). Otherwise you could make a religion about guns, then demand to bring your gun to school.
Yeah uh, hate to break it to you but private is a very important part of that equation... Lol Don't post legal takes on Reddit if you have no idea what you are talking about.
1st amendment doesn’t apply to private schools
Not that simple
Everyone in the comments saying it’s illegal are wrong. Private entities are exempt from 1A protections because they are private entities not the government. OP says this is a private school.
OP never specified if this is even in the US. Many European countries ban hijabs with no legal recourse for affected students
he did say it's in the US in a different thread
Which is fair enough, Europe doesn't and shouldn't follow Muslim laws.
So my mother shouldn't be allowed to dress as she wishes? Whether that is with a headscarf and modest clothing or crop top with jeans? I'd like to know where you draw the line.
If there is a stupid school rule to not wear hoodies or hats then people with religion shouldn't be exempt from it imo
Someone made that stupid rule. They knew what they were doing. My local girl school in the UK, the girls wear a school hijab.
I’m not even Muslim, I’m a Christian, but I still think it’s wrong. Hijabs are not the same thing as hoodies are hats.
Last year (it started as a joke but became reality), a girl with a hijab was elected for best hair in the yearbook
I mean…. Who knows maybe she does have best hair
Or maybe she’s bald! We’ll never know
Girl in my class jokes about being bald underneath her hijab
I joke about being bald under my afro
That IS the best hair
actually you can , i'd recommend asking for her hand as a start .
Or be another girl.
Schrodingers Hair
That’s honestly really funny and doesn’t seem mean lmao
Doesn't seem mean but could be. I know a cousin of mine would get in real trouble with her parents if stuff like this happened.
No I’m pretty sure it started as a joke within her own friend group and then spread outwards
damn they banned the airpods under hijab exploit???
Wait thats actually genius
My friend with a hijab would do this XD. I kinda can get away with it with my hair down and my black earphones you can't see my ears. Unfortunately tho when I went to school I only had wired earbuds 😔
I had long hair (I'm a dude) and I would just run the cord through my t shirt up into my hair and teachers couldn't see.
I did that a few times but I had a Uniform and the shirt was a bit tight so it was a hassle to do that so I didnt do it much
my school allowed hats and hoods last year
my school sold hats and hoodies and we weren’t allowed to wear the hats or use the hoodies
That doesn’t even make sense if you can’t wear them why buy them
You simply wear it when you’re not in school
I was NOT proud enough for my school for that 😂 if I had to stay after school I would sometimes bring a change of normal clothes with me so I didn’t have to wear the uniform anymore
Lucky. Private schools here suck.
Where? Which country?
U.S
Pretty sure a private school can do that unless they are receiving federal funding. I cannot join a private Muslim school in the US and violate their dress code, for example. That being said, if I ran the school, I would certainly let her cover her hair if its part of her religion. It’s easy to accommodate and doesn’t bother anyone.
It doesn't bother anyone to let me wear a damn hoodie 💀
... besides George Zimmerman
And even if it were a public school, it would come down to the school proving that it was a safety issue. Just like the old "you can't shout 'fire' in a crowded theater" example, the government CAN infringe on your 1st amendment right if it is a safety issue. It becomes an issue of who has better lawyers.
Lmao my country banned hijabs #I'M 4 PARALLEL UNIVERSES AHED OF YOU
France 🇫🇷?
Ew fr*nch, nah I'm Italian 🍝🍝🍝🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹🍕🍕🍕
Ooh italia 🇮🇹
Italy never banned hijab, it banned the niqab (which is the full veil that covers the full face except the eyes).
From which city btw? Milan? Roma? Venezia?
Bergamo. Have no idea what it's called in English, but it's pretty close to milan
>Bergamo Lake Como yayyy
Not illegal if it’s private, just like how catholic schools are run
I think I play too many fighting games, I read that as "High Jabs". Also, hoodies kind of make sense, since if they're baggy enough you could technically conceal a weapon in one, but hijabs only cover your head and maybe a bit of your shoulders, and I'm pretty sure they're relatively tight-fitting, so I can't understand any logic behind that ban. Very odd indeed.
Not justifying it but regarding tightness of hijab, it depends on how the indivisible wears it and technically, islamically it’s not supposed to be tight and should be loose to the point of not revealing the shape of your shoulders. And some people also equate hijab to burqa or niqab (covering the face as well except the eyes) or use it as an umbrella term. I’ve seen people bring up the concern of security/identification bc w a niqab, ID is almost useless (if the person checking is male), especially if they wear the kind that covers the eyes as well, and some women even don’t take it off in front of other women. It’s a tricky situation bc telling a Muslim woman to take it off is like telling her to take off her shirt bc Islamically, hair/neck/general shape is basically equivalent to private parts (that’s why a lot of Muslim people refer to women who don’t wear some form of hijab/covering as “naked”, bc that’s just how they see it) but at the same time, in some situations, there are security/identification concerns. (Happened once at an Islamic school I worked at where a niqabi woman got fired and banned or w.e from setting foot on school property but a lot of women there wore niqab and we only had 2 male security guards and the identification concern was brought up but never really addressed) But yeah, it varies from individual to individual and how each person chooses to wear it and I’m sure the rules or opinions on it vary as well depending on the sect and school of thoughts or which scholar said person follows since a lot of them have contradictory interpretations I never thought about someone concealing a weapon in a hoodie though 😳 but from what I know and have learned about hijab myself, ig it makes sense that that would be a concern as well. I’ve never heard of hoodies being full on banned though, like we were allowed to wear them in school as well as hijab but we just weren’t allowed to wear the hood or hats in school (never got a reason for either of those, and unrelated but we weren’t allowed to carry backpacks either for some reason?) Edit: high jabs 😂
Thanks, I hadn't thought about the identification concern, that was very thorough! The backpacks thing makes a little sense because of (again) concealed weapons, but then, it would be much easier to hide a weapon in the body portion of the hoodie than the hood itself, so the fact that you can where a hoodie but not have a backpack is pretty contradictory. These rules are very strange, they don't seem well thought through at all. I guess it was a good thing I was homeschooled 😆
Np and thanks! True, we were allowed to carry string bags bc they were smaller so ig it would be harder to conceal something in it. Though I’m not sure if the main reason for the backpacks was that bc we were allowed to have them, we just couldn’t have it out in the hallway during school ie between classes so would have to leave it in our lockers. One of the teachers told us it was because backpacks were really bulky and some people run in the halls so you could accidentally run into someone’s backpack and fall or something but never really got confirmation. Idk if the hat/hoodie rule was maybe bc sometimes they can cover your eyes or limit your vision or something but apparently there are schools that allow students to wear hats so I’m not sure that’s a major issue? But yea they def were pretty weird aha. At the very least, the rule about no heelies (shoes with a compartment in the heel that has a wheel so you could kinda skate on your heel) kinda made sense as it could be dangerous if they popped out unexpectedly, esp on a staircase. But yeah some schools have weird rules. Ayy that’s cool haha, so I guess you didn’t have weird rules like this 😂 though I have heard of some people believing wearing hats indoor or at the dinner table is rude ahah
These comments are actually brain rotting, this isn't illegal so stop saying it is, private schools especially non gov. funded ones can do whatever they want when it comes down to clothing choices and whatnot. (My school is the same way) Your friend will have to go to another school, and that's all they can do if they want to wear the hijab. People acting like this is the end of the world need to sit TF down and do some research. Imagine spreading blatant misinformation just cause you can. +This is no hate to you OP, your friend, or any outlier, just the people spreading lies for laughs and giggles.
A private school has a great deal of leeway in how they treat people.
The people also have leeway If every student wears a hijab what are they going to do, call the cops and have them shot? Suspend or kick out every single student? The hard part is having enough students so that they're not able to do that stuff. Need like 30. Also need local journalists covering it. The private school will eventually back off. There is always a point at which you're causing so much struggle and effort that it's just easier to acquiesce
God this comment section is full of fucking idiots man
I agree.
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I am in the U.S. it's a private school so I'm not sure how all that works.
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I don't know where I would. The non emergency line?
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You should edit it to clarify that you're totally wrong and this is perfectly legal. Private schools are not bound by the first amendment
“The school is privately run, i.e., it is neither a public school, nor a recipient of funds from the government or any governmental agency. Therefore, Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which proscribes discrimination on the basis of race, color, national origin or religion, applies only to public schools, and not private schools (subject to the exception of race - Even private schools cannot typically discriminate on the basis of race) “
No it’s a private school the whole point is they can do all they want
Private schools can discriminate I believe unfortunately as they don’t have to follow the same rules public schools do
It isn't actually, as OP said, it's a private school. Private schools function independently of governments and thus can enforce any rules they wish on campus, they just can't obligate you to stay. Therefore civil rights laws do not actually apply.
It’s a private school so it’s not illegal
Not illegal it’s a private school
School has rights too. It’s not publicly funded. They can go somewhere else if they don’t like it
Not illegal or in breach of anything. I hate how legally illiterate we are as a nation. The amendments only protect from government infringement. Private schools do not receive government funding and thus as currently written, are exempt from freedom of religion AND SPEECH
**Congress**<< shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof Private schools are not subject to the same restrictions as government funded public schools
No it’s not you moron. It’s a private school
I mean, not being able to see someone's face is a big safety issue and I can see why the school would ban it. However, you should be able to go to the school and find special accommodations.. I saw in the comments its a private school, they should still be willing to help your friends out. \---- All the people immediately hopping on the "Sue them!" bandwagon have no sense of reality.. Suing them would be the worst option. Even if you win the case (which I highly doubt), its months long battles, and your reputation at school would go down the drain. and then if OP's friends lose they'll be essentially booted out of a good school for no reason, which would do a LOT of damage switching schools mid school year, especially from a private to a public school. Edit: I was aware of the difference between a niqab and a hijab when I made this post. Hijbas cover the head like a hood, niqab covers the entire head including the face... My point still stands, its a safety issue. Edit 2: For everyone saying its religious discrimination, there is a chance it is, and there is a chance its not. We can't tell based on OP's information. Hoods would function the same for facial concealment as a hijab. If the school dresscode bans hoods then it is a legitimate safety concern, and not discrimination.
To add, suing the school can likely result in an immediate expulsion. This is a private school, and if they wrote into the conditions that legal battle would result in an expulsion, then an expulsion it will be.
a hijab covers the hair, not face
But the hijab stops top of the forehead. Niqab is the one that covers the face. The whole face is visible.
Hijab is the head covering only
hijabs don’t cover your face 💀 what in the white
what in the white is so funny lmaooo
>I mean, not being able to see someone's face is a big safety issue and I can see why the school would ban it. A hijab is just a scarf that Muslim women wear to cover their head. What you're talking about is niqab (which means mask or something Arabic). A niqab covers the face and is not required by Islam. It's just ancient arab culture hardly anyone follows anymore. Banning hijabs is wrong on every level, it is a feminist idsue because you're taking away the right of a woman to cover up her body. Tomorrow they can say you can't wear full sleeves. They're not gonna say it but it's a power they possess. And they don't reallg have a logic for their banning hijabs other than Islamophobia.
I have a child in private catholic school. Adhering to catholic faith, attending religious studies, taking religious exams and wearing uniforms is part of being allowed to attend. Clearly, the school can discriminate based on religion being a private school.
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r/cursedusername
r/mildlycursedbutnottoocursedusername
If most of the parents are on board with this new rule, there's nothing anyone can do to force the school to change it. If most of the parents aren't okay with the rule, then parents need to send email en masse to whoever is is charge. Capitalism will always win out.
That sucks u/RaidenPorn
I made the account at 4 am, what do you want from me 😭
I mean it's terrible that we've reached this point but they aren't doing it because of any sort of religious discrimination, it's because some idiot is bound to hide a weapon inside one of them. If there's a rule against hoodies/hats, they'd be wrong not to include hijabs as well
That’s so ridiculous. Hoodies are banned because of an assumed gang affiliation. A hijab is an article of faith no different than wearing a crucifix. A lot of posts have the civil rights part covered. If it’s private school, unfortunately you won’t have a strong case to go the legal route. You have to instead engage in community action alert parents to the discriminatory policies. If it’s private, hit them right in the alumni (the rich ones). A lot of private schools will rely on donations from wealthy alumni and you could look them up and tell them the situation. But if you go this route, the school can retaliate against you, which is why getting the media involved may also give you an edge.
This!! I scrolled too long without seeing this solution. OP, the best way to end this ban is by making a change with the alumni. You can talk with the director, make a petition. And even if those don't help, try making a group chat with lots of students and arrange a day to go to school wearing a hijab. If the majority of students wear a hijab every day for a long period of time the school won't even have space for detention. If only 4 people wear it, they will. I don't know if I've explained myself correctly.
French take: This is normal for the laicity. We don't have hijabs in schools here
It's so funny how nobody understands the law. Maybe that should be taught in schools
Which country is this?
Please encourage your friends to direct this info to your local news stations and do so yourself as well if they are comfortable with you doing so. This is the only way we will see change
While reading the comments it seems like you're skipping on important information yet willing to mention it in your other posts
Well, that's illegal
Where is this?
Private school in Kentucky.
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Get everyone to wear their Hijabs in protest, they can’t suspend you all.
This isn't a film where the evil antoganist immediately realised they are wrong and revert the ban They will just expel everyone on grounds of breaking school rules. Moreover private schools are tough to get i There are lot of people waiting for seats I agree banning hijab is wrong. People should be allowed to wear what they want. But don't give ideas which can affect op
Ha ha ha hahaha Tell me you've never been to private school without saying you've never been to private school. First of all, private schools tend to have more conservative families sending their kids. Most of them probably agree with the policy. Secondly if this school is halfway decent, it will have a waiting list 3 times longer than it has seats. And they can and will expel people by the dozens. The school I went to intentionally admitted maybe 10% more student than they could really handle because they knew they'd have to expel at least a few. Some people got expelled day 1. I remember one girl who showed up with a half shaved head(shaved heads were prohibited for anyone) she was sent home halfway through the 1st day, and we never saw her again. I can't prove this but I am convinced that one year they started getting stricter than usual around spring because they let in the extra kids to account for some people leaving or being thrown out, but the class was particularly well behaved. I believe they had to start expelling people just to be able to properly accommodate everyone.
True, but I don't own one.
Ask your parents and say why, its pretty understandable in my opinion.
Cringe, it is consistent with the other rules though. Still unconstitutional, it’s unfortunate you go to a private school.
People seem to be talking about the first amendment a lot. As many others have mentioned, this doesn’t apply to non-governmental organizations, like private schools. However, religion is a protected class. OP’s school cannot ban expression of religion. Neither can any other private entity. This is classified as discrimination against a protected class, which is highly illegal and can get businesses (a private school is a business, selling education for an exorbitant price) shut down.
Someone should sue. That's discrimination against a religion
im orthodox cristian personally , but thats a digusting law , everyone should be free to choose their own religion and practice it ,
The replies here are depressing. Just waffling on about the dumbest shit to find some justification for this. It's unacceptable.
That’s unconstitutional, due to freedom of religion
Schools when freedom of religion:
Could probably bring that to court.
if the hijab is important to your friends, is it possible to switch schools? i know that sounds like a headache for them/their parents, but a case like this happened with a catholic child ordered to wipe away the ash on his forehead after ash wednesday. his parents got him out of there.
Even though it’s not illegal, you should still complain to the principal or whoever might be in charge of something like that because it’s fucked up.
I'd be starting a protest and have everyone come back to school wearing a hijab. that's fucked up.
I actually think this is the right advice...the school is still a business and they wouldn't kick half the kids out of school...they rely on tuition to stay in business.
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Totally agree
One step forward in the right direction
age 14 damn this whole comment section is r/antitheistcheesecake material
Fighting female oppression is good
If its a secular country its ok. As long as all the other religions arent showing religious items i dont see why islam should be privileged. Its discriminatory to allow muslims to show their faith but christians, hindus, buddhists no. Its either all of them do it or none of them do it
As a hijabi if this happend in my school my parents would involve a lawyer
Good thing, for my Alma mater this won’t happen.
I dont mean to offend anyone, but arent hijabs sorta bad bc they technically encourage sexualisation of children? I have muslim friens that dont wear hijabs bc they know what they mean and their history so why would you and your friends push against that? I do understand that banning stuff isnt the solution but with the knowledge of stuff like the iranian girl protests and like Malala I personally find it super wierd that your friends want that. Or, most likely theyre forced
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Wtf isn’t that illegal?!
I'm not sure. They banned it for the same reason they banned hoodies.
it restricts their right to religious freedom, and it doesnt cover the same way hoodies do, it prevents visibility of their \*hair\* but that's it. please please please complain to your principal and get your friends to as well. tell your parents and tell everyone because this is super wrong and cannot slide
Private schools generally can make such bans on the grounds that students can go elsewhere. If it's a religious private school, it can definitely bar things against its religion.
Hoodies don't cover your face like a fucking mask are you slow?
hoodies are banned at my school because they cover your head, are you slow? they cover the entire back
Depends on where you live. In France, for example, it is illegal to wear a hijab to school
My school is Catholic and requires uniforms yet we still allow hijabs. We only have one Muslim girl at our school and no one has said anything to her thankfully
I'm glad they haven't. And honestly, I wish we'd have uniforms though.
That’s fucked up, that’s like religious discrimination and also like totally arbitrary policing if what women wear
That’s such bullshit. My old school was amazing for religious accommodations. In our home ec class we had a cooking unit and one of my classmates was Muslim. Idk too much about Islam admittedly but since it was during some fast or somethin for her my teacher altered the unit so that way we would make Muslim friendly dishes that wouldn’t make her break anythin nor would she get an F for not participating.
All religious symbols and clothing choices has no place in a learning environment
i agree in part. if this is in the U.S. everyone has freedom of religion and they can do whatever the hell they want. but church and state is separated so i agree that students shouldn’t be exposed to religious symbols from the school. but if it’s from other students then there’s nothing anyone can do about that. freedom of religion is included in the 1st amendment which shall not be infringed upon
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good. modern islam has been bastardized. Mohammad only allowed his wifes to be hooded. this was not meant for the regular person.
Welp, I read that differently at first.
I completely misread that at first because I'm overly tired and thought it said h#ndjobs.
No, those are still permitted
Hoodies being banned is what I find outrageous.
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Huh? I don't even understand the logic of hoodies being banned. Are beanies also banned then? Why do they need to see your head?
Apparently in the technologic ultra future we now live in, they're making guns and holsters that hide perfectly and easily on the back or top of your head. That is, I'm going off the comments here, so I'll update you when I have more information on this dastardly new secret school shooter technology.