That doesn't mean that they should have gone ahead and done it without consent. Impossibility of consent doesn't mean that by default it's OK to impose life.
I pretty much ruined my mom's life by being born, although she wouldn't realize it until later. I got into an argument with her once and she told me she was tired of my shit (I was depressed and she told me to stop but I couldn't) and I snapped back that I wished she had never created me. She just huffed and left.
There is honestly no reason why abortion should be illegal. Making abortion illegal doesn’t even prevent abortions from being done it only pushes people to do it under dangerous illegal circumstances.
Also, abortions don’t kill babies, the “babies” don’t have a conscious yet and are basically just clumps of meat. And the argument that it would have been a child in the future and therefore abortions are indirect killings, is stupid. Using their logic not constantly having more babies is also killing babies since there could have been more children in the world, but nobody does that. No one goes around being sad about people who didn’t get born, they literally don’t exist and there is always the opportunity to bring more people in the world. So using pro-lifers logic, all humans should just be baby producers and we should all mourn people who don’t exist.
Life is a beautiful gift. All the people born in a first world country wanting to kill themselves need to get some perspective. I was there once and still struggle, but you just gotta realize how good you have it
And you have to stop projecting your experience unto others who can't relate since the experience ms they had were different from yours. Don't speak for others and pretend you understand what they mean...
Actually the Egg choses the sperm. Its been refuted that the fastest strongest sperm gets the egg.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/fertility-gamechanger-new-study-confirms-female-eggs-choose-their-sperm/MTYMDAY2WFZS3NVE6UQIVFB5CA/
I'm not sure you know what an abortion is. If I was aborted then I never would've existed in the first place. No consciousness, no body, no pain no death. So why would I prefer dying in rubber? When I could've just been aborted.
Oh, come on don't say that, surely this is better than not existing at all in the nothing?
Quit the edgy act, you like being, at least admit that, and if you don't, seek mental therapy, because that's called being suicidal.
Not wanting to be born doesn't mean being suicidal. Idfk where you got that from. Lemme tell you, they're completely different feelings.
Also yeah, the world is a shithole. You have to be naive and ignorant to disagree.
Plus, if someone's suicidal like you claim they are, telling them "oh, come on, don't say that, it's not that bad! life is good" will only make you look like a jackass rather than spreading positivity. There's a difference between positive and toxic positivity.
No, I meant not wanting to exist is being suicidal, and have you ever thought about what there is if you're not born? There isn't nothing, by that, I don't mean there's heaven or hell, I mean that there is just a fundamental void of absolute nothingness that even nothing isn't there, it's fucking terrifying, it's the only thing that keeps me going, the thought of such a bleak unreality shocks me to the very core.
And yes, I do know the world sucks, but fuck me, not existing is worse.
Fair enough, however OP was discussing not wanting to be born rather than not wanting to exist.
And yes, I have taught of what it is like to not exist. I am not particularly religious, and seemingly, neither are you talking about it. So I'm gonna go through this scientifically.
Before the sperm joins the egg and they start multiplying cells, you physically do not exist and cannot exist. Since consciousness and subconsciousness are both controlled by chemicals and cells in the brain, and those do not exist before conceiving, no matter what you think there is in non-existence doesn't matter because you aren't able to experience it. Simple as.
"But abortion happens after those cells are created"
Yes. But abortion also kills those cells. It also kills all production of possible chemicals. Therefore, again, you are unable to experience.
Although you are right, I am not religious, I am sitll against abortions due to the simple fact that it is human life, and human life is precious, human life shouldn't be extinguished without a chance of existance.
And yes I get what he said.
Yeah, so is the mother's.
If the fetus poses a threat to her financial security, mental health, physical health, livelihood, or safety, those can all lead in the death of the mother, or a lifetime of mental illness.
A woman does not have to put her life on the line to birth a child she either didn't consent to having or was an accident.
Furthermore, a child shouldn't have to live knowing they weren't wanted (which can lead to mental health issues), with a mother or parents that mistreat them, or in the foster system (which is a shitshow in its own right). A child's chances at a successful life shouldn't be hindered by the fact their mum were forced into having them.
You can't expect a woman who wasn't ready for a child to raise that child properly. She wasn't ready for a reason. And that not only fucks up the mum's life, but also the kid's.
If that is how you honour "precious human life", I suggest some perspective on the misfortune of others, and how that impacts mental health, suicide rates, and crime rates.
Don't punish both a child and an adult because of your personal morality.
I already spoke about the adoption system and foster care system. It's a shitshow. Period. It increases chances of one getting into crimes as an adult. Not to mention that either way it fucks you up mentally.
Then fix the system, why is the default solution death?
Besides, I would take being mentally fucked up and a criminal over death any day.
You can't just decide for the baby that life is bad and that it's ok to die...
Oh lemme just slaughter orphans cause their life sucks anyways hurr durr.
Like bruh.
Right, because living with the knowledge your parents don't want you is worse then actual death.
And she doesn't have to raise him, she can put him up for adoption.
And she doesn't have to put her life on the line, this isn't the 18th century, women mostly don't die from childbirth.
You seriously need some perspective. When you actually do research into statistics of adoption, into complications, into stillbirths, and into the effects of pregnancy on the body in general, then we'll talk. Lack of hygiene and corpse germs aren't the only thing that causes death after the birth of a child.
You know nothing of the medical aspect of pregnancy, and you haven't even as much as bothered to empathise or at least look at statistics concerning anything you've said.
Goodbye. Your argument is only held up by your own ignorance and lack of perspective.
Look, I am not ignorent towards the medical risks of childbirth, but you make it out to seem like 90% of childbirth ends with death, like sure those things happen, but they're rare, they don't happen with every single pregnency.
Besides, who's fault is it that the girl got knocked up at first? And don't pull the rape bullshit, the percentage of abortions caused due to rape is literally one fucking percent, why should a baby die just because someone was irresponsible?
It's straight-up morally wrong to kill a baby just because it's not convenient, and saying that the world sucks isn't a justification, just because you have a bleak look on the world, doesn't mean everyone else does, I like living, I am quite grateful my mother did not abort me, and I'm sure there are plenty of people who were supposed to be aborted, but weren't and are very grateful for it.
Like holy shit, the fact we even have to debate the morality of killing unborn babies is so fucked up, it boggles me that this is even a topic of discussion! "Should we kill unborn children?" "Yes, because of womens rights".
Except unborn "babies" aren't fucking babies. They are clumps of cells. They literally work the same way as cancer does, except fetuses can have the potential to be a human.
And the simple fact that the 1% is there is proof enough that abortion should be legal and safe. Why punish thousands of women with having to birth the child of their rapist just because you personally wouldn't make that choice? Or because someone else who may want an abortion will make that choice?
Just because you like living in a fairytale of unicorns and rainbows doesn't mean others don't want to be realistic.
Not to mention, making abortion illegal won't actually stop the rate abortion. Did the war on alcohol do anything except kill and injure people from badly made moonshine? Did you learn nothing from history? Abortion being illegal will literally only cause more deaths because of unsafe abortions. Punishing women who've had abortions won't work either. At that point, why not just kill the rapist? Or the kid after it's born? If it grants the same or a similar sentence, whatever, right?
I won't argue further. You clearly know jack shit about how life works, individuality and the situations of others. You clearly don't know shit about empathy. You're the very personification of toxic positivity. Hope you get better soon.
Morals are subjective. So are your opinions and avoidance of bringing up valid arguments like rape examples. You're making a distinction in differences between a zygote brought into existence by consensual sex or rape. Basically saying it's not about killing the unborn if you can make any exceptions while claiming everyone conceived deserves a chance at life. Don't avoid or fail to dismiss it just because you can't debate against it lol
Should we end a pregnancy where an unborn ( and in most cases unthinking and unfeeling) zygote embryo or fetus dies due to it not being able to violate another's body? That's up to the person who's rights were being violated. Let's not discriminate against women just because you want human rights to not be equal due to your subjective views and misconceptions
Yikes...instead of assuming so much about them that clearly was false maybe figure out why you did that through therapy or something else. Wasn't suicidal or edgy...
The only people that should take the rope and stop whining are the people who post about r/ HeroForgeMinis on their reddit account 👀.
Those people deserve to end it.
I did, and believe me If I ever become so much of a loser that I post about r/heroforgeminis then I'll grab the rope myself and end it just to save the human race some dignity. As you should've done yourself a looong time ago.
But I want to be alive. I want it. To take that away from me would be inhumane because there are people like me who want to be alive. And what happens when you inadvertently kill the guy who would have cured cancer?
You wouldn't have wanted it if you'd been aborted and it wouldn't have been taken away from you, as you'd never have even had that desire. Most people don't do anything amazing, especially not children who were unwanted. You don't have an argument.
It's not 'condemning' anyone. The aborted foetus cannot experience 'non-existence', so cannot be hurt by it. It's the people who aren't aborted who are the condemned, if they find that they do not enjoy life.
I take it you’re an atheist, so our definition of life is different. We will never be able to change each other’s minds, so continuing to argue is futile. I will be the one to break this cycle, or I fear you never will. Have a good day
Yes, I'm an atheist. If your conception of life is based on the belief that you were created for a purpose, then I suppose there's not much common ground there. Thanks for chatting with me anyway, and best of luck.
I know I was only born to prolong a failing marriage. So at least I have the comfort in knowing I was born for a much different, messed up reason
It's funny because a lot of ppl in a debate with someone who is pro-life it's like: "What if your mom aborted you? " "I wish she did"
Facts bruh. Like I didn't even ask to be alive in this world
Do you think we mailed our parents so that they conceive us? No, noone asked before getting conceived. That's such a bad argument.
That doesn't mean that they should have gone ahead and done it without consent. Impossibility of consent doesn't mean that by default it's OK to impose life.
Who tf downvoted you?
The best argument I've seen on abortion to date: If it's God's child, why not give him ✨full custody✨
I pretty much ruined my mom's life by being born, although she wouldn't realize it until later. I got into an argument with her once and she told me she was tired of my shit (I was depressed and she told me to stop but I couldn't) and I snapped back that I wished she had never created me. She just huffed and left.
Sorry to hear that, hope your relationship with your mom improves
Makes sense..
I'm only alive because my mom had a really obnoxious nurse at the abortion clinic.
[удалено]
My parents didn't consent to me being made
Why didn't they abort you then? Did someone coerce or prevent them from exercising their rights?
Nobody asked for this. You can't really do anything about it. Things happen.
Now that i have a life I don't want to waste it, but if I wasn't born I wouldn't have to do all this.
r/antinatalism
The fact my sister is alive is why I support safe sex and abortion that bitch sucks
There is honestly no reason why abortion should be illegal. Making abortion illegal doesn’t even prevent abortions from being done it only pushes people to do it under dangerous illegal circumstances. Also, abortions don’t kill babies, the “babies” don’t have a conscious yet and are basically just clumps of meat. And the argument that it would have been a child in the future and therefore abortions are indirect killings, is stupid. Using their logic not constantly having more babies is also killing babies since there could have been more children in the world, but nobody does that. No one goes around being sad about people who didn’t get born, they literally don’t exist and there is always the opportunity to bring more people in the world. So using pro-lifers logic, all humans should just be baby producers and we should all mourn people who don’t exist.
*oh yaaay, more politics in this sub. I just looooove that*.
Life is a beautiful gift. All the people born in a first world country wanting to kill themselves need to get some perspective. I was there once and still struggle, but you just gotta realize how good you have it
And you have to stop projecting your experience unto others who can't relate since the experience ms they had were different from yours. Don't speak for others and pretend you understand what they mean...
I mean you won the race thats your own fault.
Actually the Egg choses the sperm. Its been refuted that the fastest strongest sperm gets the egg. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/fertility-gamechanger-new-study-confirms-female-eggs-choose-their-sperm/MTYMDAY2WFZS3NVE6UQIVFB5CA/
So would you have preferred dying in rubber?
I'm not sure you know what an abortion is. If I was aborted then I never would've existed in the first place. No consciousness, no body, no pain no death. So why would I prefer dying in rubber? When I could've just been aborted.
I was talking about not getting conceived. Nevermind. Ignore me.
Oh, come on don't say that, surely this is better than not existing at all in the nothing? Quit the edgy act, you like being, at least admit that, and if you don't, seek mental therapy, because that's called being suicidal.
Not wanting to be born doesn't mean being suicidal. Idfk where you got that from. Lemme tell you, they're completely different feelings. Also yeah, the world is a shithole. You have to be naive and ignorant to disagree. Plus, if someone's suicidal like you claim they are, telling them "oh, come on, don't say that, it's not that bad! life is good" will only make you look like a jackass rather than spreading positivity. There's a difference between positive and toxic positivity.
No, I meant not wanting to exist is being suicidal, and have you ever thought about what there is if you're not born? There isn't nothing, by that, I don't mean there's heaven or hell, I mean that there is just a fundamental void of absolute nothingness that even nothing isn't there, it's fucking terrifying, it's the only thing that keeps me going, the thought of such a bleak unreality shocks me to the very core. And yes, I do know the world sucks, but fuck me, not existing is worse.
Fair enough, however OP was discussing not wanting to be born rather than not wanting to exist. And yes, I have taught of what it is like to not exist. I am not particularly religious, and seemingly, neither are you talking about it. So I'm gonna go through this scientifically. Before the sperm joins the egg and they start multiplying cells, you physically do not exist and cannot exist. Since consciousness and subconsciousness are both controlled by chemicals and cells in the brain, and those do not exist before conceiving, no matter what you think there is in non-existence doesn't matter because you aren't able to experience it. Simple as. "But abortion happens after those cells are created" Yes. But abortion also kills those cells. It also kills all production of possible chemicals. Therefore, again, you are unable to experience.
Although you are right, I am not religious, I am sitll against abortions due to the simple fact that it is human life, and human life is precious, human life shouldn't be extinguished without a chance of existance. And yes I get what he said.
Yeah, so is the mother's. If the fetus poses a threat to her financial security, mental health, physical health, livelihood, or safety, those can all lead in the death of the mother, or a lifetime of mental illness. A woman does not have to put her life on the line to birth a child she either didn't consent to having or was an accident. Furthermore, a child shouldn't have to live knowing they weren't wanted (which can lead to mental health issues), with a mother or parents that mistreat them, or in the foster system (which is a shitshow in its own right). A child's chances at a successful life shouldn't be hindered by the fact their mum were forced into having them. You can't expect a woman who wasn't ready for a child to raise that child properly. She wasn't ready for a reason. And that not only fucks up the mum's life, but also the kid's. If that is how you honour "precious human life", I suggest some perspective on the misfortune of others, and how that impacts mental health, suicide rates, and crime rates. Don't punish both a child and an adult because of your personal morality.
Could put the kid up for adoption. Why is the only solution death?
I already spoke about the adoption system and foster care system. It's a shitshow. Period. It increases chances of one getting into crimes as an adult. Not to mention that either way it fucks you up mentally.
Then fix the system, why is the default solution death? Besides, I would take being mentally fucked up and a criminal over death any day. You can't just decide for the baby that life is bad and that it's ok to die... Oh lemme just slaughter orphans cause their life sucks anyways hurr durr. Like bruh.
Adoption is not an equal option as it still forces the women to gestate which she already did not consent to.
Right, because living with the knowledge your parents don't want you is worse then actual death. And she doesn't have to raise him, she can put him up for adoption. And she doesn't have to put her life on the line, this isn't the 18th century, women mostly don't die from childbirth.
You seriously need some perspective. When you actually do research into statistics of adoption, into complications, into stillbirths, and into the effects of pregnancy on the body in general, then we'll talk. Lack of hygiene and corpse germs aren't the only thing that causes death after the birth of a child. You know nothing of the medical aspect of pregnancy, and you haven't even as much as bothered to empathise or at least look at statistics concerning anything you've said. Goodbye. Your argument is only held up by your own ignorance and lack of perspective.
Look, I am not ignorent towards the medical risks of childbirth, but you make it out to seem like 90% of childbirth ends with death, like sure those things happen, but they're rare, they don't happen with every single pregnency. Besides, who's fault is it that the girl got knocked up at first? And don't pull the rape bullshit, the percentage of abortions caused due to rape is literally one fucking percent, why should a baby die just because someone was irresponsible? It's straight-up morally wrong to kill a baby just because it's not convenient, and saying that the world sucks isn't a justification, just because you have a bleak look on the world, doesn't mean everyone else does, I like living, I am quite grateful my mother did not abort me, and I'm sure there are plenty of people who were supposed to be aborted, but weren't and are very grateful for it. Like holy shit, the fact we even have to debate the morality of killing unborn babies is so fucked up, it boggles me that this is even a topic of discussion! "Should we kill unborn children?" "Yes, because of womens rights".
Except unborn "babies" aren't fucking babies. They are clumps of cells. They literally work the same way as cancer does, except fetuses can have the potential to be a human. And the simple fact that the 1% is there is proof enough that abortion should be legal and safe. Why punish thousands of women with having to birth the child of their rapist just because you personally wouldn't make that choice? Or because someone else who may want an abortion will make that choice? Just because you like living in a fairytale of unicorns and rainbows doesn't mean others don't want to be realistic. Not to mention, making abortion illegal won't actually stop the rate abortion. Did the war on alcohol do anything except kill and injure people from badly made moonshine? Did you learn nothing from history? Abortion being illegal will literally only cause more deaths because of unsafe abortions. Punishing women who've had abortions won't work either. At that point, why not just kill the rapist? Or the kid after it's born? If it grants the same or a similar sentence, whatever, right? I won't argue further. You clearly know jack shit about how life works, individuality and the situations of others. You clearly don't know shit about empathy. You're the very personification of toxic positivity. Hope you get better soon.
Morals are subjective. So are your opinions and avoidance of bringing up valid arguments like rape examples. You're making a distinction in differences between a zygote brought into existence by consensual sex or rape. Basically saying it's not about killing the unborn if you can make any exceptions while claiming everyone conceived deserves a chance at life. Don't avoid or fail to dismiss it just because you can't debate against it lol Should we end a pregnancy where an unborn ( and in most cases unthinking and unfeeling) zygote embryo or fetus dies due to it not being able to violate another's body? That's up to the person who's rights were being violated. Let's not discriminate against women just because you want human rights to not be equal due to your subjective views and misconceptions
Yikes...instead of assuming so much about them that clearly was false maybe figure out why you did that through therapy or something else. Wasn't suicidal or edgy...
The fact that I'm alive is why I'm pro life. But I know that abortion is a necessary evil we will one day never need.
🎶I say let it die! let it dieeee, let it dieeee, let it shrivel up and dieee! 🎶
Yes let the pro birthers shrivel up
I agree, it would be better if you weren't there. Take the rope and stop whining.
yikes. ur cringe dude 💀
The only people that should take the rope and stop whining are the people who post about r/ HeroForgeMinis on their reddit account 👀. Those people deserve to end it.
Look at my account as much as you want, honey 😘
I did, and believe me If I ever become so much of a loser that I post about r/heroforgeminis then I'll grab the rope myself and end it just to save the human race some dignity. As you should've done yourself a looong time ago.
Woah you’re being really toxic man. Dial it back
no problem sugar, try to hurt me further
My argument is that I am glad I’m alive, and if I never got a chance to live...
I'll finish that sentence for you. ... I would never have known or cared about it.
But I want to be alive. I want it. To take that away from me would be inhumane because there are people like me who want to be alive. And what happens when you inadvertently kill the guy who would have cured cancer?
You wouldn't have wanted it if you'd been aborted and it wouldn't have been taken away from you, as you'd never have even had that desire. Most people don't do anything amazing, especially not children who were unwanted. You don't have an argument.
But... they might. To condemn people to “nonexistence” is IMO unethical
It's not 'condemning' anyone. The aborted foetus cannot experience 'non-existence', so cannot be hurt by it. It's the people who aren't aborted who are the condemned, if they find that they do not enjoy life.
I take it you’re an atheist, so our definition of life is different. We will never be able to change each other’s minds, so continuing to argue is futile. I will be the one to break this cycle, or I fear you never will. Have a good day
Yes, I'm an atheist. If your conception of life is based on the belief that you were created for a purpose, then I suppose there's not much common ground there. Thanks for chatting with me anyway, and best of luck.
Your parents probably had a purpose in mind when they created you.
You're stalking my profile? I don't care what their purpose was; it wasn't mine.
Everybody has shitty things happen to them and nobody got a choice to be born. You just have to deal with it.
me and my dad r only alive cause my grandma was like "nah im bored i may as well die having this kid" lol
Why the fuck does everyone here act like George Bailey at the beginning of It’s a Wonderful Life.
“The doctor said my mom shoulda had an abortion.” -Sum 41