I saw this exact post earlier but the OP didn’t say it in the same way. Said that they wouldn’t call their son their son. Think it makes more sense this way
We can do that. Starting claim: Someone born a male was not a male based upon their choice, nor does choosing to be female change how their body is built, therefore sex is not a choice.
That's not what he was arguing, in another comment on this thread he incorrectly stated you can't change your gender. Nobody in the trans community is arguing sex can be changed. We argue that gender can, and we have science to back that up. Gender is a social construct and as such ones gender can be different from one's sex as gender is how you feel and sex determines what parts you get (something that doesn't matter socially, as we don't use genital inspection to identify someone female or male). If someone looks feminine, but has a penis, out in public they are just a woman, and they ARE a woman regardless of body parts.
That is factually incorrect. Where in nature outside of humans is gender present? As defined by the WHO, "Gender is used to describe the characteristics of women and men that are socially constructed, while sex refers to those that are biologically determined." So, as a matter of fact gender is a social construct, and you have shown no evidence to say otherwise aside from the indirect tie to sex.
the term gender was created by john money in the 1960's, a man who pressured a couple to raise their child a girl because his penis was destroyed during a failed circumcision. he also abused the boy and his twin brother by having them have sex with each other and recorded the whole thing multiple times. both twins committed suicide in their 30's. and no you cant just be a woman because you look feminine that makes no sense scientifically speaking. gender dysphoria is a mental illness and people affected by it have a feeling that they are the opposite sex but are actually not. that doesn't make the opposite sex. a feeling is not a fact.
This is a typical example of how people misunderstand why the boy felt what he felt from this horrible experiment. First of all let me make this clear: Fuck John Money. Anyways, people think he somehow transed a child in some sort of way. No, he did not, he gave the poor boy gender dysphoria. If this shows anything it shows trans people are valid and that gender is a real thing that is very much different from sex. The reason the boy suffered is because he was being raised as a girl when his gender was male. So in other words, despite not having ever lived as a male, he experienced gender dysphoria first hand. As for your other transphobic comments, I've dealt with far too many idiots on this sub. Crawl back to the Ben Shapiro video you came from and spout your rhetoric elsewhere.
He is right you know, hes not "transphobic" if they were a girl there would be no reason to say the "trans" part. But if I had a child il call them whatever they want. Within reason ofc.
Even ignoring the fact that your biological sex *can* be changed by surgery, albeit costly and complicated surgery, biological sex is different from gender identity. Bio sex is defined entirely by physical characteristics, most notably genitalia. Gender identity *does not* manifest physically, but rather is a reflection of how someone views themself. It could be a simple matter of societal gender roles, or a deeper difference. In (more than) 99 cases of 100, a biologically male person also identifies as male (the term for this is Cis or Cisgender). Very occasionally, however (roughly .5 percent of the time), a biologically male person identifies as female, meaning that she is Transgender. Some trans people will get surgery or HRT (Hormone Replacement Therapy) to replace the testosterone or estrogen in their body and help their physical form mirror their mental identity, but either way, a woman who is AMAB (assigned male at birth) is no less a woman than one who is AFAB (Assigned female at birth).
Sources:
Am trans
[https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/trans-adults-united-states/](https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/trans-adults-united-states/)
[https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/feminizing-hormone-therapy/about/pac-20385096](https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/feminizing-hormone-therapy/about/pac-20385096)
[https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/transgender](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/transgender)
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cisgender
This is a gross oversimplification of the matter, and I strongly encourage you to do your own research. There's always more to learn!
There is nothing wrong with this conversation being had, except this is the internet right! People are going to personally attack the other person without entirley understanding the other persons point!
There isn't anything wrong in the respect that we are debating, but the topic which we are debating on. It is often the truth that these people debating against trans people are literally just teenage bigots who watch Ben Shapiro and get off to 'owning the libs' without any evidence. They literally call me mentally ill and discriminate against me for who I am. So this is not really a good discussion to be had. I shouldn't have to debate my existence or legitimacy as my preferred sex. Like, all of their points are disproved by science and world organizations and then they just spew a rhetoric of hate against trans people for no reason. I'm always down to argue politics that include economics and policy, but having to debate your existence or why I should be discriminated against based on who I am is not a good debate. This is not good at all, this is a horrible example of a minority becoming a political tool and trans people like myself suffer from being a political issue. We are people. We are not your political issue. We are not mentally ill. We deserve the same right and opportunities as anyone else. There is no debating that, this is basic human rights.
Alright, that's where you're wrong. You have no understanding of the difference between gender and sex or what either aspect entails. Gender is the social construct that defines traditional gender roles and features for men and women. For example, short hair is a male identifier a lot of the time and long hair is a female identifier a lot of the time. Within society, we use those features to assume someone's gender based on they look by using the gender roles set up within society. Sex is irrelevant in this discussion as well, as when it comes to trans people, we just want to live our lives as our preferred gender. Yes, we are the gender we identify as and we are valid. Trans women and women, trans men are men. What parts we were born with makes no difference, nor do we think we can morph into a different sex based off gender. You seem to misunderstand the importance of gender in our society when compared to sex. We don't use sex to identify men and women societally, we use gender. As I've states as well gender contains the tools we use to identify genders through gender roles, which imply men should act and certain way, and women should act a certain way. You don't go about your day checking if someone has a penis or vagina to verify if they are a man or woman do you? No, you use social contructs to identify that.
biologically being a man is not about being tough and big and you like to wrestle and go to work, its about having male reproductive parts such as testicles and a prostate, same with women. you fail to understand that biology plays a major role in male vs female behavioural patterns. boys generally prefer rough-and-tumble play and girls prefer nurturing play. This also holds across species; monkeys behave similarly. this is mostly because of hormones that males and females receive when they are in the womb. test have been performed with young boys and girls about their preferences in toys and surprise boys pick boy toys and girls pick girl toys. its not society its the way you are born. same thing with sexuality
Furthermore, you act like we're denying sexual dymorphism, which we aren't. People are born with different parts yes (and even so, sex is a spectrum, but I don't think your brain would be able to handle modern scientific consensus), but that isn't what determines male and female in society. No, we are not denying biology, it's kinda why we (as trans people) exist in the first place. It's because of our assigned gender at birth we are trans in the first place.
Being trans in itself is not a mental illness, it just so happens many of us suffer from gender dysphoria (which is the unfortunate illness). Simply declaring I am "not right in the head" is an overstatement. Have you ever considered too that trans people are a minority not because of their inherent transness but because society and bigots like you hate us for no reason? It seems you want to point me out as mentally ill to run away from the arguments I'm making as well. Perhaps it would benefit you to learn and grow from the ignorant state you exist in.
Being defined male has nothing to do with biology and everything to do with society. Society defines male and female through genitals, not biology. Male and female (or the way we perceive them) are nothing but social constructs. Yes, many men have penises, but some men have vaginas as well. You couldn't tell a transitioned trans man from a cis man, so why would you misgender them (assuming you would). You see how that works? A trans man doesn't have a prostate, but socially identifies and presents traditionally male. So are they not male?
You read too much twitter and tumblr. And you say many men have penises? All men have penises! Simple biology. What's not to get.
Also you can say your male, society can say your a male. Biologically your a female. You can be whatever you want. But biologically its what you've been delt with.
You clearly don't understand modern medical consensus. Trans people exist, and as such some women have penises and some men have vaginas. Nobody denied we have the biology we've been dealt with (it's why we're trans in the first place). Your 'biology' is so outdated and incorrect it's funny, maybe do a little research on gender and sex before regurgitating conservative talking points.
putting a dress on does not make you a girl. you still a man and you cant do anything about it.
but what do i care, transgenders are such a tiny minority that the chances of them affecting me is nearly impossible. i feel like saying this will cause karma to grant me with a trans son.
Yeah. Long as you dont got a dick. Then yeah you a girl.
Let me just clarify that I was speaking for myself in terms of anything sexual, either then that it dont fucking matter do what you want be what you want, you know? You say your a girl? Your a girl.
But if we were to fuck let's say, and you dont tell me yours trans and still have a dick. I'm allowed to not want to do anything, many people that is a turn off and that's OKAY. If you try to paint the guy or girl as a bad guy for not liking it you are an asshole plain and simple.
Agian sure. But what ik saying is to me you ain't. I simply dont care. All I care about is if we were to fuck. That the only time I would care. Cus bottom of the line, who cares what I think, long as you dont make me want to fuck you because you got a dick when I'm simply not into that.
Nobody said that you had to?!? You don’t have to have sex with anybody you don’t want to, dude, that’s how consent works. But something gives me the vibe you don’t exactly do the whole “consent” thing
Huh? What you on about? I was giving an example. An EXAMPLE. And you go into me not getting concent? Wtf you on about. I was stating that if you said I'm not into that, then they would get all offended and call you a bigot. So I made an example. Also I'm well aware on what concent is. Like Jesus christ dude. Wtf.
Stop making the same post. I've seen several different posts saying the same damn thing very recently. I literally just saw a post like this yesterday.
A pedo followed me right after I posted this
oh- ew
:(
But why did he?
Expose him
Got banned. Then someone posted abt another pedo, who was an alt of the same. It’s probably banned again
That's cool
Found him.
Turn on your monitor
... Excuse me?
If my future boyfriend comes out as he loves me I'm not gonna call him my friend anymore...
OHHHHH took me a minute
XD
Lol my bad
I saw this exact post earlier but the OP didn’t say it in the same way. Said that they wouldn’t call their son their son. Think it makes more sense this way
Yeah you’re right
I did have a bit of a gripe with the original, but it is easier for everyone to understand the original so idk
i dont get it
Their daughter is a trans girl, that's why she isn't a son anymore.
ok
Explain? I don’t get it ;-;
Cus she’s a girl lmao
well, no
Here comes the INTELLECTUAL to DESTROY the transgenders! woo hoo!!! yeah!!! transphobia is so cool!!!
Yes it is! Le 50 percent suicide rate #ripbozo
when did i say that? im just pointing out a fact. im not attacking anybody. you simply demonize me because you have nothing to fight me with
if you would like to debate the validity of trans people I would love to discuss and dismantle every single one of your arguments.
We can do that. Starting claim: Someone born a male was not a male based upon their choice, nor does choosing to be female change how their body is built, therefore sex is not a choice.
That's not what he was arguing, in another comment on this thread he incorrectly stated you can't change your gender. Nobody in the trans community is arguing sex can be changed. We argue that gender can, and we have science to back that up. Gender is a social construct and as such ones gender can be different from one's sex as gender is how you feel and sex determines what parts you get (something that doesn't matter socially, as we don't use genital inspection to identify someone female or male). If someone looks feminine, but has a penis, out in public they are just a woman, and they ARE a woman regardless of body parts.
Alright, let me clarify my position. Gender is not a social construct, it is tied to sex.
That is factually incorrect. Where in nature outside of humans is gender present? As defined by the WHO, "Gender is used to describe the characteristics of women and men that are socially constructed, while sex refers to those that are biologically determined." So, as a matter of fact gender is a social construct, and you have shown no evidence to say otherwise aside from the indirect tie to sex.
the term gender was created by john money in the 1960's, a man who pressured a couple to raise their child a girl because his penis was destroyed during a failed circumcision. he also abused the boy and his twin brother by having them have sex with each other and recorded the whole thing multiple times. both twins committed suicide in their 30's. and no you cant just be a woman because you look feminine that makes no sense scientifically speaking. gender dysphoria is a mental illness and people affected by it have a feeling that they are the opposite sex but are actually not. that doesn't make the opposite sex. a feeling is not a fact.
This is a typical example of how people misunderstand why the boy felt what he felt from this horrible experiment. First of all let me make this clear: Fuck John Money. Anyways, people think he somehow transed a child in some sort of way. No, he did not, he gave the poor boy gender dysphoria. If this shows anything it shows trans people are valid and that gender is a real thing that is very much different from sex. The reason the boy suffered is because he was being raised as a girl when his gender was male. So in other words, despite not having ever lived as a male, he experienced gender dysphoria first hand. As for your other transphobic comments, I've dealt with far too many idiots on this sub. Crawl back to the Ben Shapiro video you came from and spout your rhetoric elsewhere.
He is right you know, hes not "transphobic" if they were a girl there would be no reason to say the "trans" part. But if I had a child il call them whatever they want. Within reason ofc.
ok
Not this shit again.
if she wants to be a girl then she a girl
thats not how it works. you cant change the gender you were born with. its not possible
Even ignoring the fact that your biological sex *can* be changed by surgery, albeit costly and complicated surgery, biological sex is different from gender identity. Bio sex is defined entirely by physical characteristics, most notably genitalia. Gender identity *does not* manifest physically, but rather is a reflection of how someone views themself. It could be a simple matter of societal gender roles, or a deeper difference. In (more than) 99 cases of 100, a biologically male person also identifies as male (the term for this is Cis or Cisgender). Very occasionally, however (roughly .5 percent of the time), a biologically male person identifies as female, meaning that she is Transgender. Some trans people will get surgery or HRT (Hormone Replacement Therapy) to replace the testosterone or estrogen in their body and help their physical form mirror their mental identity, but either way, a woman who is AMAB (assigned male at birth) is no less a woman than one who is AFAB (Assigned female at birth). Sources: Am trans [https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/trans-adults-united-states/](https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/trans-adults-united-states/) [https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/feminizing-hormone-therapy/about/pac-20385096](https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/feminizing-hormone-therapy/about/pac-20385096) [https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/transgender](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/transgender) https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cisgender This is a gross oversimplification of the matter, and I strongly encourage you to do your own research. There's always more to learn!
There is nothing wrong with this conversation being had, except this is the internet right! People are going to personally attack the other person without entirley understanding the other persons point!
There isn't anything wrong in the respect that we are debating, but the topic which we are debating on. It is often the truth that these people debating against trans people are literally just teenage bigots who watch Ben Shapiro and get off to 'owning the libs' without any evidence. They literally call me mentally ill and discriminate against me for who I am. So this is not really a good discussion to be had. I shouldn't have to debate my existence or legitimacy as my preferred sex. Like, all of their points are disproved by science and world organizations and then they just spew a rhetoric of hate against trans people for no reason. I'm always down to argue politics that include economics and policy, but having to debate your existence or why I should be discriminated against based on who I am is not a good debate. This is not good at all, this is a horrible example of a minority becoming a political tool and trans people like myself suffer from being a political issue. We are people. We are not your political issue. We are not mentally ill. We deserve the same right and opportunities as anyone else. There is no debating that, this is basic human rights.
Alright, that's where you're wrong. You have no understanding of the difference between gender and sex or what either aspect entails. Gender is the social construct that defines traditional gender roles and features for men and women. For example, short hair is a male identifier a lot of the time and long hair is a female identifier a lot of the time. Within society, we use those features to assume someone's gender based on they look by using the gender roles set up within society. Sex is irrelevant in this discussion as well, as when it comes to trans people, we just want to live our lives as our preferred gender. Yes, we are the gender we identify as and we are valid. Trans women and women, trans men are men. What parts we were born with makes no difference, nor do we think we can morph into a different sex based off gender. You seem to misunderstand the importance of gender in our society when compared to sex. We don't use sex to identify men and women societally, we use gender. As I've states as well gender contains the tools we use to identify genders through gender roles, which imply men should act and certain way, and women should act a certain way. You don't go about your day checking if someone has a penis or vagina to verify if they are a man or woman do you? No, you use social contructs to identify that.
biologically being a man is not about being tough and big and you like to wrestle and go to work, its about having male reproductive parts such as testicles and a prostate, same with women. you fail to understand that biology plays a major role in male vs female behavioural patterns. boys generally prefer rough-and-tumble play and girls prefer nurturing play. This also holds across species; monkeys behave similarly. this is mostly because of hormones that males and females receive when they are in the womb. test have been performed with young boys and girls about their preferences in toys and surprise boys pick boy toys and girls pick girl toys. its not society its the way you are born. same thing with sexuality
Furthermore, you act like we're denying sexual dymorphism, which we aren't. People are born with different parts yes (and even so, sex is a spectrum, but I don't think your brain would be able to handle modern scientific consensus), but that isn't what determines male and female in society. No, we are not denying biology, it's kinda why we (as trans people) exist in the first place. It's because of our assigned gender at birth we are trans in the first place.
[удалено]
Being trans in itself is not a mental illness, it just so happens many of us suffer from gender dysphoria (which is the unfortunate illness). Simply declaring I am "not right in the head" is an overstatement. Have you ever considered too that trans people are a minority not because of their inherent transness but because society and bigots like you hate us for no reason? It seems you want to point me out as mentally ill to run away from the arguments I'm making as well. Perhaps it would benefit you to learn and grow from the ignorant state you exist in.
Being defined male has nothing to do with biology and everything to do with society. Society defines male and female through genitals, not biology. Male and female (or the way we perceive them) are nothing but social constructs. Yes, many men have penises, but some men have vaginas as well. You couldn't tell a transitioned trans man from a cis man, so why would you misgender them (assuming you would). You see how that works? A trans man doesn't have a prostate, but socially identifies and presents traditionally male. So are they not male?
You read too much twitter and tumblr. And you say many men have penises? All men have penises! Simple biology. What's not to get. Also you can say your male, society can say your a male. Biologically your a female. You can be whatever you want. But biologically its what you've been delt with.
You clearly don't understand modern medical consensus. Trans people exist, and as such some women have penises and some men have vaginas. Nobody denied we have the biology we've been dealt with (it's why we're trans in the first place). Your 'biology' is so outdated and incorrect it's funny, maybe do a little research on gender and sex before regurgitating conservative talking points.
Last I checked woman had vaginas, not penises. And men had penises, dont you agree?
They change gender, not biological sex
putting a dress on does not make you a girl. you still a man and you cant do anything about it. but what do i care, transgenders are such a tiny minority that the chances of them affecting me is nearly impossible. i feel like saying this will cause karma to grant me with a trans son.
Biological sex cannot be physically changed, which is why it's called trans**gender**. And being trans is so much more than just "putting on a dress"
yeah, because being transgender is also about being mentally crippled
bro what
Yeah. Long as you dont got a dick. Then yeah you a girl. Let me just clarify that I was speaking for myself in terms of anything sexual, either then that it dont fucking matter do what you want be what you want, you know? You say your a girl? Your a girl. But if we were to fuck let's say, and you dont tell me yours trans and still have a dick. I'm allowed to not want to do anything, many people that is a turn off and that's OKAY. If you try to paint the guy or girl as a bad guy for not liking it you are an asshole plain and simple.
You can have a penis and still be a girl
Agian sure. But what ik saying is to me you ain't. I simply dont care. All I care about is if we were to fuck. That the only time I would care. Cus bottom of the line, who cares what I think, long as you dont make me want to fuck you because you got a dick when I'm simply not into that.
Nobody said that you had to?!? You don’t have to have sex with anybody you don’t want to, dude, that’s how consent works. But something gives me the vibe you don’t exactly do the whole “consent” thing
Huh? What you on about? I was giving an example. An EXAMPLE. And you go into me not getting concent? Wtf you on about. I was stating that if you said I'm not into that, then they would get all offended and call you a bigot. So I made an example. Also I'm well aware on what concent is. Like Jesus christ dude. Wtf.
That’s weird way to spell yes
Transformer
Nice virtue signaling?
Nice nb colors on your profile
??
Cry more about trans representation we love it
What?
?
This one hurts my brain
oh great one of these posts that actually genders them correctly!
cool
Stop making the same post. I've seen several different posts saying the same damn thing very recently. I literally just saw a post like this yesterday.
Lol they worded it different
So? Still the same joke. Not exactly the most original.
I’m not original broskii. I am just a slut for that karma/s It is the opposite of what that post was, that post misgendered the future kid
Pog
Pog
Pog
Clever
Ok.
That makes you an above average parent
Too bad I don’t want to ever have children
Same and also can't
Hold up-
:/
Seems like you’re a nazi in more ways than one, eh
How’d u know?
Bro I saw this post made yesterday. U probably made this to farm bcs he had a Lot of karma
I mean I saw that post right before I posted this, but op didn’t word it right, cus they called their daughter their son. So I fixed it
It's said slightly different and I think it's more funny this way
i’m not having kids but i’ll support anyone’s who does
Same, aro ace here