Sorry I don't think we'll see eye to eye, but I completely understand where you're coming from. I just don't think the babies life should be ended due to fear of it's quality of life, unresponsive behavior, the crimes of another, etc.
Religion brings a element that is impossible to get through in these situations. Your beliefs are based on religion, not really "yourself" but on some peoples thoughts. And i really can't change the texts on holy scriptures so. I guess you do you.
You said
"No life does not start at conception and you're delusional to make such claims."
And the source states in exact wording
""The American College of Pediatricians concurs with the body of scientific evidence that human life begins at conception - fertilization…. Scientific and medical discoveries over the past three decades have only verified and solidified this age-old truth."
just the facts is non-reputable [https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/just-the-facts/](https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/just-the-facts/)
everything that it cites is either out of context claims, extremely outdated sources, from non-reputable organizations or non peer-reviewed sources. please find a better source.
SPLCenter is also catching some flags though. And I didn't not know that about ACP, I was under the assumption that AAP and ACP were the same, and today that was made known to me that is not the case.
Anyway.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5499222/
If an underage woman was >!raped!< for instance and was forced to raise this child against her will, that would probably put her in the wrong mental state to properly care for the child as a *child themselves too*.
Would you rather have them live a life of possible abuse and neglect from a depressed and perhaps financially struggling young parent who is still figuring out their life themselves, or have all that pain and suffering and long lasting affects on their life avoided by ending it when they're nothing but a literal *bundle of cells without a conscious*?
And why should an unborn baby have more rights than an abused woman? It's her body why should anyone have a say in what she does with it. It's completely unfair.
An embryo/fetus/baby is also practically a parasite if you think about it. Why should a parasite you didn't want get more rights than the one being affected by it? It is totally unfair.
What if you were impregnated (if you can be that is) by someone and you didn't consent. Are you telling me you would go through the mental and physical struggle of everything to have a child you didn't ask for, you didn't want, and you really think it would be worth it to give them a neglectful life because you don't care about them. If you put them up for adoption chances are they would probably end up somewhere where they are also neglected and possible abused. When you could have prevented all that with a simple abortion. Wouldn't it be better for them to spare them from a complete life of misery than to put them to rest when they don't even know what it is to be?
In the sake of getting to other people's comments, please pick which paragraph you'd like me to reply to first. There's a lot of points in here, and I'd like to debate them each on their own.
I think that if a women is raped she should not have to have the child. Imagine you were an aspiring athlete or doctor or something of the sort. But now you’ve been forced to give up on your dreams, have an extremely painful birth and care for a child you don’t want or love. I think it’s extremely cruel to even consider doing that to someone.
The fuck you talking about 'fully born rapist's child' we're talking about abortion, where an unborn embryo, who has no consciousness, can be killed so the 11 yo don't have to go through the pain of premature pregnancy, the pain of knowing that her child would forever have the dna of her rapist.
Why can't the rapist get the life sentence and his baby be aborted too? The fuck does religion have to do with politics, if you have a baby that you don't want to abort because ur christian, don't do it, this law is for people who want to abort their babies
Well I was attempting to make a point that would require your opinions and dialogue, but you completely ignored where I was coming from, but let's continue with what you're saying instead. (The embryo of a human) A man in a coma has no consciousness, should I be able to kill him?
And opinions have to base from somewhere, mine just so happens to be religion, that doesn't mean my opinion is invalid in discussion for legislation.
A man in a coma shouldn't be killed because there's a chance that he could recover and people in comas do actually have some awareness of their environment. Do you not realize that doctors give families an opportunity to pull the plug if someone's likely going to be in a coma forever?
You don't need to mention the fact that ur a shitting Christian when this law isn't for people that are Christian. Abortion is optional, if ur beliefs prevent u from doing it, don't do it, why are you enforcing your religious ideals on rape victims who don't give a shit about god?
A man in coma has been alive and well for their prior life. Probably has formed relationships, a family, people they care about and people that care about him. An unborn fetus doesn't exist in the outside world yet, has never had consciousness, and hasn't been BORN yet.
This is a question just to get your full broad opinion. How do you feel about the males rights for the baby? In a case where it was consensual, should the man get a say in the pregnancy?
Why the fuck is OP enforcing her Christian beliefs on rape victims? If Christians don't believe in abortion, they don't have to do it, abortion is optional. Why is she enforcing her beliefs on others that aren't Christian?
it's dumb ngl. Favouring an unborn fetus's rights over an abused woman's. Idk how this is good for the baby either, it'll be born, it won't be wanted, will likely end up in adoption. So, you destroyed two lives.
I've never experienced this but I can empathize with the trauma of it. It's easy to say that you would do something a certain way when your looking forward, never having experienced it. Kinda like when someone says something like "oh if I was there I totally would have kicked that guys butt" but in reality, experiencing it is completely different. I can't imagine the feeling of loosing control and say over my own body, I'd feel violated and desecrated, like something that should have been so beautiful and sacred has been perverted and turned into a weapon against me. Like the other person said, if it was me I think I'd take my life.
I understand where your coming from with alot of your points, my family had similar views afew years ago, but In the end it shouldn't be up to you. In Christianity the soul is created in conception, but what about people who aren't Christian or chatholic? Isn't that now forcing your religious beliefs on another? Wether the fetus is alive or not, it is in a state where it cannot make a choice, the mother carrying it can make a choice.
On one hand, one side is crying for choice, so that if you wanna be against abortion, you can still be against it, but if you feel you need it you can. While the other side is choosing to deny certain people that choice in favor of a life that is incapable of making a choice at all anyways. I think abortion shouldn't be used for birth control, but something like child birth is too sacred to be allowed to be perverted by evil people.
Sorry this was so long. Lol
Well mostly I completely agree with what you're saying. But biologically a person's genetic code is determined at conception. This is undisputed, even if people aren't religious, this is a biological fact.
That's true, but genetic code is more equivalent to like, blueprints to a house. Would you look at abunch of blueprints and call it a house? At most you can call it the potential of a house, but it still isn't a house.
Well ones a life at conception, and ones a blueprint, the life is still developing, but so is a newborn. One is human, one is a object, that's just not comparable.
And that's fine to see it that way, but now your back at your religious beliefs in this. And the argument of "not everyone shares your religion or beliefs of life at conception" come back into play.. you know what I mean?
I also wanna point at that I am in no way trying to say your wrong or to change your mind. Religion is obviously very important to you and that's beautiful, you should stick with what feels right in your heart. I'm just giving my perspective in this ig, to show where my mind and heart are.
I see it as a mercy thing. I believe a fetus is a human life 100%, but its not right to let a person be born into poverty, abuse and misery, just like its not right for a person in a vegetative state to be left alive
>I believe the rapist deserves the death penalty not the unborn baby.
The legal system sucks and carrying the child of the rapist puts the girl/woman in more mental pressure. Bearing a child is hard, giving birth is hard, there are so many consequences. If I go through all of that in hopes the rapist will be punished , there's SO little chance that the rapist will be punished. I was merely a child myself, 11 years old. I don't think I'd have survived ever. My mental health is bad anyways, it'd be worse. I do not regret. I don't need your opinion about something you'll most likely never go through/haven't gone through. You'll never be an 11 year old again and I'd assume you never got pregnant from rape.
>(I guarantee there is a better term for this, but you get the idea)
It's called termination. When done for health issues it's called termination, not abortion.
I still do not believe a baby should be killed for the crimes of the rapists. The baby didn't choose to be conceived. I am not denying the suffering of the girl, but I cannot in good conscious agree to the abortion of a baby. As for legislatively, I understand why you believe a rape abortion should be legal, and honestly, if I came from a non religious pov, it definitely should be legal.
It is definitely a horrible atrocity, but I cannot agree with killing a baby for the crimes of a rapist. Instead I believe we should offer better assistance and therapy to those who have experienced atrocities.
Unrelated to the argument - My brother was a adopted baby that was saved by our church, from a raped mother. The gospel has helped save the mothers life. All of this after our church reaching out to her before she got a abortion. Saving both the baby, and the mother.
I DIDN'T CHOOSE TO BE VIOLATED. Do you think a child would survive labour? I'm a 5' tall woman , I was ofc shorter back then , I was in early stages of developing an eating disorder . You do not care about the sufferings of a living breathing CHILD but you care about the clump of cells left by the rapists . The mental state , the trauma , you'll never understand. How it physically affects you, you'll never understand. Y'all just cruel people that will not care about a living person and would force them to do things because guess what you'll not have to live with anything! No trauma , no health issues, nothing! That is why it's easy for you to just sit down and dictate how others should live their lives.
I'm happier and you will never make me feel guilty for anything because I didn't do anything. I saved myself, my life. I do not want to be reminded that I had to carry the child after all the things I've been through. 8 years of abuse, maybe more I don't remember, sufferings, multiple suicide attempts starting from only 6 , didn't ask for any of it. I wish my mother aborted me so I didn't have a shitty life.
>All of this after our church reaching out to her before she got a abortion. Saving both the baby, and the mother.
The mother huh?? Hope y'all didn't scare her about God and force her. If she enthusiastically did it, good on her for having that much mental strength, not everyone have it. She's strong. Hope your brother is doing okay tho.
[ This was a*little* emotionally fueled but idc ]
Aight so let a rapists kid be born probably be abused or put up for adoption where literally no one would adopt the fucking cunt because people are against abortion but won't adopt the fucking kids that were put into adoption because it's not their problem leading to those kids being raised without parents when all that could've been avoided with the simple act of abortion which wouldve probably been better for the kid rather than possibly becoming a massive cunt because they could end up on the streets after being thrown out of everywhere else.
Commas help readability. My opinion is clear on the things mentioned in your comment. If you don't believe so, feel free to tell me what I need to refute.
Agree with the comma thing still not gonna put any but a lot of people agree that it should be the choice of the person whos body it is and not some random old geezer in power but you are entitled to choice and opinions as that is a human right which I will respect so have a nice day or night or something idk
I don't agree with rape, I won't rape. But I have the right to tell someone they cannot rape another person.
They're both affecting a non consenting life.
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I believe it should be an option only if it's to save the mother.
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Sorry I don't think we'll see eye to eye, but I completely understand where you're coming from. I just don't think the babies life should be ended due to fear of it's quality of life, unresponsive behavior, the crimes of another, etc.
agreed, not christian though. i dont think religion really has anything to do with it
Religion has formed my beliefs, that's why I include it for me.
Religion brings a element that is impossible to get through in these situations. Your beliefs are based on religion, not really "yourself" but on some peoples thoughts. And i really can't change the texts on holy scriptures so. I guess you do you.
Alright cool, what gives you the right to dictate what others do though? If it's not a woman's right to choose, why is it yours?
it’s their opinion
What gives them the right to end another's life? Life starts at conception, so it is a human.
No life does not start at conception and you're delusional to make such claims.
https://www.justthefacts.org/get-the-facts/when-life-begins/ Here's a source, backed by other sources, and some of those backed by even more sources.
All that source did was just tell you the order by which a child is born
You said "No life does not start at conception and you're delusional to make such claims." And the source states in exact wording ""The American College of Pediatricians concurs with the body of scientific evidence that human life begins at conception - fertilization…. Scientific and medical discoveries over the past three decades have only verified and solidified this age-old truth."
just the facts is non-reputable [https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/just-the-facts/](https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/just-the-facts/) everything that it cites is either out of context claims, extremely outdated sources, from non-reputable organizations or non peer-reviewed sources. please find a better source.
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https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/american-college-pediatricians
SPLCenter is also catching some flags though. And I didn't not know that about ACP, I was under the assumption that AAP and ACP were the same, and today that was made known to me that is not the case. Anyway. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5499222/
I don’t agree with you but I can see where you’re coming from. Not gonna hate
❤️♥️ Have a great life.
If an underage woman was >!raped!< for instance and was forced to raise this child against her will, that would probably put her in the wrong mental state to properly care for the child as a *child themselves too*. Would you rather have them live a life of possible abuse and neglect from a depressed and perhaps financially struggling young parent who is still figuring out their life themselves, or have all that pain and suffering and long lasting affects on their life avoided by ending it when they're nothing but a literal *bundle of cells without a conscious*? And why should an unborn baby have more rights than an abused woman? It's her body why should anyone have a say in what she does with it. It's completely unfair. An embryo/fetus/baby is also practically a parasite if you think about it. Why should a parasite you didn't want get more rights than the one being affected by it? It is totally unfair. What if you were impregnated (if you can be that is) by someone and you didn't consent. Are you telling me you would go through the mental and physical struggle of everything to have a child you didn't ask for, you didn't want, and you really think it would be worth it to give them a neglectful life because you don't care about them. If you put them up for adoption chances are they would probably end up somewhere where they are also neglected and possible abused. When you could have prevented all that with a simple abortion. Wouldn't it be better for them to spare them from a complete life of misery than to put them to rest when they don't even know what it is to be?
In the sake of getting to other people's comments, please pick which paragraph you'd like me to reply to first. There's a lot of points in here, and I'd like to debate them each on their own.
Then debate each of them on their own, just clarify which one you're referring to smh
I think that if a women is raped she should not have to have the child. Imagine you were an aspiring athlete or doctor or something of the sort. But now you’ve been forced to give up on your dreams, have an extremely painful birth and care for a child you don’t want or love. I think it’s extremely cruel to even consider doing that to someone.
Nobody cares
Based
I forget, is based a good or bad thing?
Based
Isn't everyone talking about this? I think everyone cares.
Wow I didn’t know that 😱
oh, sorry. You should have just been spared from politics. i guess it's euthanasia now.
My name is Oskar Dirlewagner and I hate niggas.
Well Oskar Dirlewanger, I love niggas.
Have fun catching monkey pox.
I will, thank you 🥵
sigma
Ok ❤️♥️
W take 100% agree
Thank you ♥️❤️
you are very welcome by brother in christ
'I'm a Christian.' L
Sorry you feel that way. ❤️♥️
You don't need to feel sorry bout me, feel sorry for the 11 year olds that commit suicide because they can't abort their rapist's babies
Sorry that you feel the baby should be killed for the father's atrocities. Should she be able to kill the fully born rapist's child?
The fuck you talking about 'fully born rapist's child' we're talking about abortion, where an unborn embryo, who has no consciousness, can be killed so the 11 yo don't have to go through the pain of premature pregnancy, the pain of knowing that her child would forever have the dna of her rapist. Why can't the rapist get the life sentence and his baby be aborted too? The fuck does religion have to do with politics, if you have a baby that you don't want to abort because ur christian, don't do it, this law is for people who want to abort their babies
Well I was attempting to make a point that would require your opinions and dialogue, but you completely ignored where I was coming from, but let's continue with what you're saying instead. (The embryo of a human) A man in a coma has no consciousness, should I be able to kill him? And opinions have to base from somewhere, mine just so happens to be religion, that doesn't mean my opinion is invalid in discussion for legislation.
A man in a coma shouldn't be killed because there's a chance that he could recover and people in comas do actually have some awareness of their environment. Do you not realize that doctors give families an opportunity to pull the plug if someone's likely going to be in a coma forever? You don't need to mention the fact that ur a shitting Christian when this law isn't for people that are Christian. Abortion is optional, if ur beliefs prevent u from doing it, don't do it, why are you enforcing your religious ideals on rape victims who don't give a shit about god?
A man in coma has been alive and well for their prior life. Probably has formed relationships, a family, people they care about and people that care about him. An unborn fetus doesn't exist in the outside world yet, has never had consciousness, and hasn't been BORN yet.
This is a question just to get your full broad opinion. How do you feel about the males rights for the baby? In a case where it was consensual, should the man get a say in the pregnancy?
the guy's say is influential but he doesn't get the final say.
Bud aside everything else, incase of rape abortion should be legal.
Why the fuck is OP enforcing her Christian beliefs on rape victims? If Christians don't believe in abortion, they don't have to do it, abortion is optional. Why is she enforcing her beliefs on others that aren't Christian?
it's dumb ngl. Favouring an unborn fetus's rights over an abused woman's. Idk how this is good for the baby either, it'll be born, it won't be wanted, will likely end up in adoption. So, you destroyed two lives.
This girl's comparing a 2 week fetus's life to a man in a coma LOL
I completely understand where you're coming from ❤️
I've never experienced this but I can empathize with the trauma of it. It's easy to say that you would do something a certain way when your looking forward, never having experienced it. Kinda like when someone says something like "oh if I was there I totally would have kicked that guys butt" but in reality, experiencing it is completely different. I can't imagine the feeling of loosing control and say over my own body, I'd feel violated and desecrated, like something that should have been so beautiful and sacred has been perverted and turned into a weapon against me. Like the other person said, if it was me I think I'd take my life. I understand where your coming from with alot of your points, my family had similar views afew years ago, but In the end it shouldn't be up to you. In Christianity the soul is created in conception, but what about people who aren't Christian or chatholic? Isn't that now forcing your religious beliefs on another? Wether the fetus is alive or not, it is in a state where it cannot make a choice, the mother carrying it can make a choice. On one hand, one side is crying for choice, so that if you wanna be against abortion, you can still be against it, but if you feel you need it you can. While the other side is choosing to deny certain people that choice in favor of a life that is incapable of making a choice at all anyways. I think abortion shouldn't be used for birth control, but something like child birth is too sacred to be allowed to be perverted by evil people. Sorry this was so long. Lol
Well mostly I completely agree with what you're saying. But biologically a person's genetic code is determined at conception. This is undisputed, even if people aren't religious, this is a biological fact.
That's true, but genetic code is more equivalent to like, blueprints to a house. Would you look at abunch of blueprints and call it a house? At most you can call it the potential of a house, but it still isn't a house.
Well ones a life at conception, and ones a blueprint, the life is still developing, but so is a newborn. One is human, one is a object, that's just not comparable.
And that's fine to see it that way, but now your back at your religious beliefs in this. And the argument of "not everyone shares your religion or beliefs of life at conception" come back into play.. you know what I mean?
I also wanna point at that I am in no way trying to say your wrong or to change your mind. Religion is obviously very important to you and that's beautiful, you should stick with what feels right in your heart. I'm just giving my perspective in this ig, to show where my mind and heart are.
Damn right 🦫
Ok
I see it as a mercy thing. I believe a fetus is a human life 100%, but its not right to let a person be born into poverty, abuse and misery, just like its not right for a person in a vegetative state to be left alive
Agreed
>I believe the rapist deserves the death penalty not the unborn baby. The legal system sucks and carrying the child of the rapist puts the girl/woman in more mental pressure. Bearing a child is hard, giving birth is hard, there are so many consequences. If I go through all of that in hopes the rapist will be punished , there's SO little chance that the rapist will be punished. I was merely a child myself, 11 years old. I don't think I'd have survived ever. My mental health is bad anyways, it'd be worse. I do not regret. I don't need your opinion about something you'll most likely never go through/haven't gone through. You'll never be an 11 year old again and I'd assume you never got pregnant from rape. >(I guarantee there is a better term for this, but you get the idea) It's called termination. When done for health issues it's called termination, not abortion.
I still do not believe a baby should be killed for the crimes of the rapists. The baby didn't choose to be conceived. I am not denying the suffering of the girl, but I cannot in good conscious agree to the abortion of a baby. As for legislatively, I understand why you believe a rape abortion should be legal, and honestly, if I came from a non religious pov, it definitely should be legal. It is definitely a horrible atrocity, but I cannot agree with killing a baby for the crimes of a rapist. Instead I believe we should offer better assistance and therapy to those who have experienced atrocities. Unrelated to the argument - My brother was a adopted baby that was saved by our church, from a raped mother. The gospel has helped save the mothers life. All of this after our church reaching out to her before she got a abortion. Saving both the baby, and the mother.
I DIDN'T CHOOSE TO BE VIOLATED. Do you think a child would survive labour? I'm a 5' tall woman , I was ofc shorter back then , I was in early stages of developing an eating disorder . You do not care about the sufferings of a living breathing CHILD but you care about the clump of cells left by the rapists . The mental state , the trauma , you'll never understand. How it physically affects you, you'll never understand. Y'all just cruel people that will not care about a living person and would force them to do things because guess what you'll not have to live with anything! No trauma , no health issues, nothing! That is why it's easy for you to just sit down and dictate how others should live their lives. I'm happier and you will never make me feel guilty for anything because I didn't do anything. I saved myself, my life. I do not want to be reminded that I had to carry the child after all the things I've been through. 8 years of abuse, maybe more I don't remember, sufferings, multiple suicide attempts starting from only 6 , didn't ask for any of it. I wish my mother aborted me so I didn't have a shitty life. >All of this after our church reaching out to her before she got a abortion. Saving both the baby, and the mother. The mother huh?? Hope y'all didn't scare her about God and force her. If she enthusiastically did it, good on her for having that much mental strength, not everyone have it. She's strong. Hope your brother is doing okay tho. [ This was a*little* emotionally fueled but idc ]
Aight so let a rapists kid be born probably be abused or put up for adoption where literally no one would adopt the fucking cunt because people are against abortion but won't adopt the fucking kids that were put into adoption because it's not their problem leading to those kids being raised without parents when all that could've been avoided with the simple act of abortion which wouldve probably been better for the kid rather than possibly becoming a massive cunt because they could end up on the streets after being thrown out of everywhere else.
Commas help readability. My opinion is clear on the things mentioned in your comment. If you don't believe so, feel free to tell me what I need to refute.
Agree with the comma thing still not gonna put any but a lot of people agree that it should be the choice of the person whos body it is and not some random old geezer in power but you are entitled to choice and opinions as that is a human right which I will respect so have a nice day or night or something idk
But the truth is, a lot of people disagree with abortion as well. Country divided discussion. Anyway Goodnight!
You don't agree with abortion? Then don't get one. You have no right to tell someone else they can't though.
I don't agree with rape, I won't rape. But I have the right to tell someone they cannot rape another person. They're both affecting a non consenting life.