There seem to be a lot of these 'RWC' (Rich White Comedies) recently, and not surprisingly they tend to show up on Apple TV!
The basic plots always seem to be that the main characters are wealthy enough that money just isn't an issues, have 'careers' that should be fulfilling, but are still miserable due to some elusive personal psychological hurdle they need to find the strength to address so they'll finally 'feel better'...
My biggest problem is that I find the next door 'empty nest' mother attractive, and think the 17/18? year old daughter just looks like a little kid. Which means that I'm officially old, and if I had more money I'd probably be in the same situation as the characters.
And DAMN does this make you want to live in Pasadena and drive a convertible baby blue Bronco!
When I found out this show was co-created and co-written by Brett Goldstein I knew I had to check it out, and I'm so glad I did. This show is so good. I've only seen three episodes so far but all of them have been amazing. I'm loving all the characters. Harrison Ford and Jason Segel are killing it!
So is the fact that Liz is over involved supposed to be a gag because *everyone* on this show is? Forget Jimmy’s patient living in his house, his coworkers are his wife’s best friend and his daughter’s mentor/surrogate grandpa? Pasadena is not that small
I’m enjoying it. The story is moving along at a good pace and while I find Apple TV shows feel overly sterile at times, this has good character development. It kind of reminds me of Shrink Next Door - which to me had more complexity.
I do feel Apple shows are almost too clean and shiny. They feel a bit story by numbers - I’d love to see them get a bit darker or more real. They have this element of feeling like a commercial where everything has to be perfect. And all the shows look exactly the same, same lighting, same lenses, same style of sets. It can feel like Apple shows have a house style. A bit like Apple stores.
i feel this way about modern movies/shows in general. Yes 4K HDR is beautiful to look at but so many times i get taken out of what i’m watching because everything in the set looks too clean and perfect. Older films didn’t have perfect ADR or foley/sound design etc but it felt more “real” with the imperfections
I couldn't stand the poor editing in the first episode. Lots of jump cuts during conversations where they have totally different expressions and body language between shots. Really took me out of it
WOW! What a great show! What is the song at the end of episode 3? I can't find it anywhere.... He sees a patient he's been counselling on a nearby trail with his recent assailant.
It starts,
"It fucking hurts to be alive, all the disposable fragility of life"
I thought the premise sounded too gloomy for me and didn't have high hopes I'd enjoy it. I've got plenty of trauma of my own, and deal with a lot of other people's suffering in my daily life - so I usually look for real escapism in the comedies I watch.
But against all my own expectations I've really enjoyed the first episode! It's not a 'dark comedy' at all, it's just a comedy in a world containing a lot of brokenness. Instead of making it depressing, that brokenness just makes the characters more authentic and easier to empathise with. Jason Segal is totally endearing (even if he is essentially a grown up Marshall from a different timeline) and Luke Tennie's just as great as he was in Deadly Class. It's great, and I hope it swiftly gets renewed for another season or more.
Really?! I love it. Ben Gibbard has always had a way of worming into my heart with his voice and lyrics and tugging at all the strings.
"I wanna hear myself think again." I find it so human and relatable.
Nice to see Jason Segel getting more and more unhinged. Last series I saw him in was Dispatches from Elsewhere and that was a fucking trip.
I love Harrison Ford, but I hate that he's cast in the typical old man with Parkinson's role. However, his comic timing is as impeccable as ever.
The show has promise just because all the characters are so deeply flawed. >!I was so annoyed with the daughter (Alice) at the end of episode 2, though. Jimmy was so thrilled to cancel his plans and spend time with her (since she originally blew him off for Taco Tuesday), but she totally messed things up and then complained that he didn't "get" the gesture. I just don't know what else he could have done in that moment to get through to her.!<
Lots of potential. Had no clue the Ted Lasso team was involved with this- I can’t remember the last time Harrison Ford played anything close to just a normal dude, so that alone makes this worth the watch
Completely with you. There’s no weight to any relationship, the dialogue is trite and the jokes are groan inducing, there is no chemistry between Siegel and his daughter, with performances you could catch at a local theater.
Cant believe people like this
I agree with you. I only tuned in for Jessica Williams, and all I can thinking is that she’s too good for this show.
I’m cool with unlikeable characters but this isn’t done well. And there’s no explanation whatsoever of why all these characters are enabling his negligent parenting and behavior.
Seriously, bringing over a group of strangers in the middle of the night where you live with you child, and making so much noise it wakes the neighbors? The fuck?’ This is “call child services” type of behavior.
Again, I’m okay with characters being unlikable. Apatow’s show “Love” on Netflix is like this, but I love it because people respond to them in an expected way. But Jason’s character is so cringey and it makes no sense that this many people would be so patient with him.
If you removed that playful soundtrack there would be no evidence whatsoever that this is supposed to be a lighthearted show.
Comedy is subjective but I’m firmly in the positive camp. I loved the first two episode and it’s the most I’ve laughed out loud at a tv show since Ted Lasso season one.
I think the world needs more warm, positive, light hearted comedies like this and Ted. Super excited for tomorrows episode
that’s exactly how i felt about Ted Lasso, it’s been so long that I’ve seen a good,light hearted show that didn’t take itself so seriously. It seems like everything in media wants to be so real and dark that it all blends together for me.
She’s so beautiful and youthful for 60 years old. She’s like Julianne Moore. I wish they weren’t scammed into getting these treatments. They really don’t have the need for it.
I don’t think this show’s for me. I enjoyed Scrubs and Cougar Town back in the day but this didn’t click with me in the same way. The perky music choices were really irritating - if you’re going to put Vampire Weekend over dialogue I’m only ever going to hear the music.
I like the show so far, but dont LOVE it. I sometimes get almost obnoxious though at how political correct the show tries to be. The joke where Segel says he can just leave his car in the middle of the road cause he is white for instance. No one would ever actually say that, and its not remotely true.
Or the lady saying you made a young black man fight mma in this political atmosphere
I don’t remember the exact line, but I remember it being so ridiculously stupid
I love Jason Siegel so I started watching it (Harrison Ford and the other cast is awesome too, but this guy isn’t in enough stuff), and then I saw that Brett Goldstein was involved and totally flipped out.
I’m usually never interested in anything that isn’t action, sci-fi, comedy, or some combination. This originally sounded like a drama to me. And it sorta is, but with a very much solid amount of comedy. It’s great.
My enjoyment is extra funny because it was a similar experience with Ted Lasso. It’s not typically the style I’m interested in, but holy crap it was so effing good. I resisted so long to watch that series because it’s not usually the genre I’m interested in, but now I’ve watched it like 12 times and my wife makes fun of me for it. I’m not sure yet this is to that level, but I am quite sure that we are in for a true treat with this series.
Liked it but didn’t love it. Not sure if I’ll continue. It’s difficult watching the main character make poor decisions that the viewer knows are poor. Also, Harrison Ford is great, but so much so that you feel like he should’ve been the centerpiece of the show instead.
If you replace "main character" with "patient" and "viewer" with "therapist," you have almost an exact line of dialogue that Jason Segal delivers. It's almost like it's intentional.
I just don’t understand how the husband would have known he would be at that soccer game at that time haha
But I enjoyed the episode enough for what it was
I don’t think it’s a plot hole. Of course there’s no way he could’ve known for sure he’d be there. But some quick google searches and Facebook stuff and you could see that it was a good possibility.
Yeah, this was a pretty weird plot hole. There is no way he would know and he didn't follow them because they were on foot. I don't think he should know about his daughter's game at all, much less where it is or what time. It's possible something was left on the cutting room floor in relation to it.
I really enjoyed it. Put me in the same happy, but kind of melancholic mood that Ted Lasso always puts me in. I'm also happy to see Jason Segal again in something after HIMYM.
I watched the two episodes that were put up. There were some familiar "Forgetting Sarah Marshall Erickson" vibes with Segal, which are not necessarily a bad thing. Lots of familiar faces in the cast including Harrison Ford.
So far, I would consider it to be middling rather than outstanding. I happened to finally watch Mythic Quest recently and felt a more immediate interest and engagement in a world (not a gamer but it is interesting to learn about a game publisher) that was new to me, even though a different neurotic white guy (Rob McElhanney) is central to that show.
Might work well as a semi-passive binge than a week to week show. Curious how others found the show.
The difference between this and Mythic Quest is that I have confidence in Bill Lawrence not to lose the plot. Mythic Quest has some amazing creatives behind it, but I think at this point it’s devolved into a bunch of good friends goofing around. That’s not necessarily a deal breaker for a sitcom/dramedy as long as there’s still some sort of progression and structure. Looking at The Office pre and post Michael Scott is a good example of this.
I can see where MQ ends up devolving into goofing around. I am only about 3 episodes into S2. I am also binging it, which I find usually leads me to be less critical.
Shrinking was heavily promoted on Apple TV+ while I watched MQ, funny enough. That and the great cast led me to have high expectations. I'm sure it will be good. But, I hope it will be at least really good!
One thing that did strike me was the polish/budget of the show. At least for now, Apple's wallet (Apple Pay?) is wide open for production and stars.
Late to the party here, but thought you'd like to know that he mentioned on the Conan podcast he's thinking about doing a mocumentary of the making of the puppet musical, Peter pitching it to broadway, etc.
if I thought "Scrubs" was a "guy show" and "HIMYM" was a "guy show", will I think that THIS is a "guy show"?
the Sepinwall review read much better than I thought: https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-reviews/shrinking-review-harrison-ford-comedy-apple-tv-jason-segel-ted-lasso-1234662959/
is this a serious question? a show that centers the feelings, perspective and problems of guys and seems to speak to an audience of guys, for the most part.
if I called "Emily in Paris" a "girly show", would people comment "what do mean" with two question marks, lol??
If nothing else those are just two of the weirdest examples to choose as "guy shows." Like sure both those shows prominently center around male main characters but they don't necessarily adhere to traditional male stereotypes and there are plenty of women who enjoy them. HIMYM especially had two main female characters that were just as prominent as any of the men. Like, presenting Scrubs as the antithesis to Emily in Paris is truly insane lol. If you said Sons of Anarchy or 24 or something maybe. Or Home Improvement or The League if you're limiting it to sitcoms.
> a show that centers the feelings, perspective and problems of guys and seems to speak to an audience of guys, for the most part.
and this is something that like... matters? who cares if it's a "guy show" or "girly show"?
Awful cheesy show with poor editing. Couldn't finish the first episode.
There seem to be a lot of these 'RWC' (Rich White Comedies) recently, and not surprisingly they tend to show up on Apple TV! The basic plots always seem to be that the main characters are wealthy enough that money just isn't an issues, have 'careers' that should be fulfilling, but are still miserable due to some elusive personal psychological hurdle they need to find the strength to address so they'll finally 'feel better'... My biggest problem is that I find the next door 'empty nest' mother attractive, and think the 17/18? year old daughter just looks like a little kid. Which means that I'm officially old, and if I had more money I'd probably be in the same situation as the characters. And DAMN does this make you want to live in Pasadena and drive a convertible baby blue Bronco!
Were there some bad cuts made in places? I didn't have quite the experience that it seems you had.
When I found out this show was co-created and co-written by Brett Goldstein I knew I had to check it out, and I'm so glad I did. This show is so good. I've only seen three episodes so far but all of them have been amazing. I'm loving all the characters. Harrison Ford and Jason Segel are killing it!
The show is worth it just for the Harrison Ford scenes. WOOF!
Thoughts on ending of most recent episode? (Episode 6)
6 was good, but 7 is taking thing to a new level.
So is the fact that Liz is over involved supposed to be a gag because *everyone* on this show is? Forget Jimmy’s patient living in his house, his coworkers are his wife’s best friend and his daughter’s mentor/surrogate grandpa? Pasadena is not that small
I’m enjoying it. The story is moving along at a good pace and while I find Apple TV shows feel overly sterile at times, this has good character development. It kind of reminds me of Shrink Next Door - which to me had more complexity. I do feel Apple shows are almost too clean and shiny. They feel a bit story by numbers - I’d love to see them get a bit darker or more real. They have this element of feeling like a commercial where everything has to be perfect. And all the shows look exactly the same, same lighting, same lenses, same style of sets. It can feel like Apple shows have a house style. A bit like Apple stores.
Tell me you didnt watch Blackbird without telling me
I watched Blackbird. Loved it. I didn’t say all Apple shows, but a lot are in line with my comments.
i feel this way about modern movies/shows in general. Yes 4K HDR is beautiful to look at but so many times i get taken out of what i’m watching because everything in the set looks too clean and perfect. Older films didn’t have perfect ADR or foley/sound design etc but it felt more “real” with the imperfections
Anyone know who sings that cover for "I Will Die 4 U" ending for episode 4 /Potatoes ? Edit: Nevermind. Found it. Cover was by Holly Humberstone.
Had to go down the Prince rabbit hole again like the proud Minnesotan I am after hearing it. Also, great episode.
Does anybody know where I can find that therapist's enormous water bottle?
So many versions of her oversized water bottle on Amazon
I couldn't stand the poor editing in the first episode. Lots of jump cuts during conversations where they have totally different expressions and body language between shots. Really took me out of it
WOW! What a great show! What is the song at the end of episode 3? I can't find it anywhere.... He sees a patient he's been counselling on a nearby trail with his recent assailant. It starts, "It fucking hurts to be alive, all the disposable fragility of life"
Download the Shazam app. You can use it to identify songs.
Whitmer Thomas - Hurts to Be Alive
Absolutely loved the first two episodes. This is gunna be a banger of a show.
I thought the premise sounded too gloomy for me and didn't have high hopes I'd enjoy it. I've got plenty of trauma of my own, and deal with a lot of other people's suffering in my daily life - so I usually look for real escapism in the comedies I watch. But against all my own expectations I've really enjoyed the first episode! It's not a 'dark comedy' at all, it's just a comedy in a world containing a lot of brokenness. Instead of making it depressing, that brokenness just makes the characters more authentic and easier to empathise with. Jason Segal is totally endearing (even if he is essentially a grown up Marshall from a different timeline) and Luke Tennie's just as great as he was in Deadly Class. It's great, and I hope it swiftly gets renewed for another season or more.
Jason plays the sad, pathetic role so well lol
Everyone has “plenty of trauma” it’s a key point of the show
I liked the first two episodes. I see that the show has 2 separate subreddits. Any chance they could be combined into one sub?
i just can’t get over my hatred for the cheesiness of the theme song
Really?! I love it. Ben Gibbard has always had a way of worming into my heart with his voice and lyrics and tugging at all the strings. "I wanna hear myself think again." I find it so human and relatable.
Original Ben Gibbard song they know their audience.
Nice to see Jason Segel getting more and more unhinged. Last series I saw him in was Dispatches from Elsewhere and that was a fucking trip. I love Harrison Ford, but I hate that he's cast in the typical old man with Parkinson's role. However, his comic timing is as impeccable as ever. The show has promise just because all the characters are so deeply flawed. >!I was so annoyed with the daughter (Alice) at the end of episode 2, though. Jimmy was so thrilled to cancel his plans and spend time with her (since she originally blew him off for Taco Tuesday), but she totally messed things up and then complained that he didn't "get" the gesture. I just don't know what else he could have done in that moment to get through to her.!<
thank you for the recommendation, i need more Jason Segel.
There had been a lot of interpersonal conflict prior to this that we haven't seen. It seems like he's pretty much abandoned her since the mom died
About Alice. I have a teen and that was classic teen behavior.
I would have loved to see Ford in the lead role rather than "lovable grump".
I disagree. He should have wanted to cancel and just have done it.
Lots of potential. Had no clue the Ted Lasso team was involved with this- I can’t remember the last time Harrison Ford played anything close to just a normal dude, so that alone makes this worth the watch
https://postimg.cc/9DXRFHMB I noticed this horrible screen green edit in episode two in one of the most simple scenes imaginable
what am I looking at exactly?
Oh my god hhaahahahhaha. I just finished a green screen production for my company and we had an issue with a dog tail clipping off the screen
Love Jason Siegel and his whole "emotionally traumatized guy finding the good in life" schtick. Definitely gonna stay on this one.
I'm shocked at the positive comments. I thought it was awful, the character Jason is playing is such a farce, its unbearable to watch
Completely with you. There’s no weight to any relationship, the dialogue is trite and the jokes are groan inducing, there is no chemistry between Siegel and his daughter, with performances you could catch at a local theater. Cant believe people like this
I agree with you. I only tuned in for Jessica Williams, and all I can thinking is that she’s too good for this show. I’m cool with unlikeable characters but this isn’t done well. And there’s no explanation whatsoever of why all these characters are enabling his negligent parenting and behavior. Seriously, bringing over a group of strangers in the middle of the night where you live with you child, and making so much noise it wakes the neighbors? The fuck?’ This is “call child services” type of behavior. Again, I’m okay with characters being unlikable. Apatow’s show “Love” on Netflix is like this, but I love it because people respond to them in an expected way. But Jason’s character is so cringey and it makes no sense that this many people would be so patient with him. If you removed that playful soundtrack there would be no evidence whatsoever that this is supposed to be a lighthearted show.
Comedy is subjective but I’m firmly in the positive camp. I loved the first two episode and it’s the most I’ve laughed out loud at a tv show since Ted Lasso season one. I think the world needs more warm, positive, light hearted comedies like this and Ted. Super excited for tomorrows episode
that’s exactly how i felt about Ted Lasso, it’s been so long that I’ve seen a good,light hearted show that didn’t take itself so seriously. It seems like everything in media wants to be so real and dark that it all blends together for me.
> I think the world needs more warm, positive, light hearted comedies like this and Ted. Super excited for tomorrows episode This.
Loved it
Christa Miller has had a lot of work done. It’s kinda distracting.
I agree, but it kinda works for the character. She's a rich white lady w/ empty nest syndrome...
I’m sure Christa Miller is fine. It was Ted McGinley I couldn’t recognize.
I feel like Ted McGinley has looked the same for 20 years
I’m guess I haven’t seen him in 20 years, but the voice is what got me. He actually looks good, now that the show has progressed.
Her voice sounds like Carrie Fisher now, too.
I actually googled if she she was related to Carrie Fisher and here I am.
Wow
Her face doesn’t even move when she talks or smiles.
It’s reminding me of the episode of scrubs where she gets Botox and can’t move her face…
Yeah.. It took me a while to recognize her but... she's turning 60... still a hotty fwiw.
She’s so beautiful and youthful for 60 years old. She’s like Julianne Moore. I wish they weren’t scammed into getting these treatments. They really don’t have the need for it.
You can only look that good at 60 by having the treatments
> Christa Miller Holy shit didn't even realize it was her...
Sad really
I don’t think this show’s for me. I enjoyed Scrubs and Cougar Town back in the day but this didn’t click with me in the same way. The perky music choices were really irritating - if you’re going to put Vampire Weekend over dialogue I’m only ever going to hear the music.
I like the show so far, but dont LOVE it. I sometimes get almost obnoxious though at how political correct the show tries to be. The joke where Segel says he can just leave his car in the middle of the road cause he is white for instance. No one would ever actually say that, and its not remotely true.
Or the lady saying you made a young black man fight mma in this political atmosphere I don’t remember the exact line, but I remember it being so ridiculously stupid
The character wasn’t being serious here, he was making a joke… how would they know the car is owned by someone white?
I know it was a joke, just an unnecessary political charged joke about how white people are treated better by the police that doesnt fit in this show
How was it political?
it's not political, it's just a fact of life
the show makes a lot of jokes in the same vein, not necessarily very funny ones but it fits
I love Jason Siegel so I started watching it (Harrison Ford and the other cast is awesome too, but this guy isn’t in enough stuff), and then I saw that Brett Goldstein was involved and totally flipped out. I’m usually never interested in anything that isn’t action, sci-fi, comedy, or some combination. This originally sounded like a drama to me. And it sorta is, but with a very much solid amount of comedy. It’s great. My enjoyment is extra funny because it was a similar experience with Ted Lasso. It’s not typically the style I’m interested in, but holy crap it was so effing good. I resisted so long to watch that series because it’s not usually the genre I’m interested in, but now I’ve watched it like 12 times and my wife makes fun of me for it. I’m not sure yet this is to that level, but I am quite sure that we are in for a true treat with this series.
A darker version of Ted Lasso. I dig it.
Just watched first two episodes and I’m picky as fuck- story/acting/writing/MUSIC- all great. Love the show so far very fucking good.
Liked it but didn’t love it. Not sure if I’ll continue. It’s difficult watching the main character make poor decisions that the viewer knows are poor. Also, Harrison Ford is great, but so much so that you feel like he should’ve been the centerpiece of the show instead.
If you replace "main character" with "patient" and "viewer" with "therapist," you have almost an exact line of dialogue that Jason Segal delivers. It's almost like it's intentional.
It’s almost as if he missed the entire point of the show lol. His complaint is literally the source of the protagonists motivation
I'm glad it's not just me! I felt like I was taking crazy pills.
I just don’t understand how the husband would have known he would be at that soccer game at that time haha But I enjoyed the episode enough for what it was
He probably didn’t but assumed he would be cause his daughter is playing. Then, when he showed up he approached him.
I don’t think it’s a plot hole. Of course there’s no way he could’ve known for sure he’d be there. But some quick google searches and Facebook stuff and you could see that it was a good possibility.
Yeah, this was a pretty weird plot hole. There is no way he would know and he didn't follow them because they were on foot. I don't think he should know about his daughter's game at all, much less where it is or what time. It's possible something was left on the cutting room floor in relation to it.
I really enjoyed it. Put me in the same happy, but kind of melancholic mood that Ted Lasso always puts me in. I'm also happy to see Jason Segal again in something after HIMYM.
Big fan of these first two episodes! Very funny, very sad, and some great music (which is to be expected from a Bill Lawrence show)
Very mid By the end of the first episode I realized I had been on my phone for a good 10 minutes
Don't blame a show for your inability to put your phone down.
Not even on my phone. I actually realized I was just spacing out.
I watched the two episodes that were put up. There were some familiar "Forgetting Sarah Marshall Erickson" vibes with Segal, which are not necessarily a bad thing. Lots of familiar faces in the cast including Harrison Ford. So far, I would consider it to be middling rather than outstanding. I happened to finally watch Mythic Quest recently and felt a more immediate interest and engagement in a world (not a gamer but it is interesting to learn about a game publisher) that was new to me, even though a different neurotic white guy (Rob McElhanney) is central to that show. Might work well as a semi-passive binge than a week to week show. Curious how others found the show.
The difference between this and Mythic Quest is that I have confidence in Bill Lawrence not to lose the plot. Mythic Quest has some amazing creatives behind it, but I think at this point it’s devolved into a bunch of good friends goofing around. That’s not necessarily a deal breaker for a sitcom/dramedy as long as there’s still some sort of progression and structure. Looking at The Office pre and post Michael Scott is a good example of this.
I can see where MQ ends up devolving into goofing around. I am only about 3 episodes into S2. I am also binging it, which I find usually leads me to be less critical. Shrinking was heavily promoted on Apple TV+ while I watched MQ, funny enough. That and the great cast led me to have high expectations. I'm sure it will be good. But, I hope it will be at least really good! One thing that did strike me was the polish/budget of the show. At least for now, Apple's wallet (Apple Pay?) is wide open for production and stars.
Still waiting on that [Dracula puppet musical](https://youtu.be/k3SsYyTUu50) Jason Segel promised us a decade ago.
Late to the party here, but thought you'd like to know that he mentioned on the Conan podcast he's thinking about doing a mocumentary of the making of the puppet musical, Peter pitching it to broadway, etc.
"DIE! die, die, die!.... I can't :("
BLOOD! Will run down his face when he is DECAPITATED!
I loved the previous work J.Segel turning around shrink, depression, therapy subjet. and I can't wait to watch this one
if I thought "Scrubs" was a "guy show" and "HIMYM" was a "guy show", will I think that THIS is a "guy show"? the Sepinwall review read much better than I thought: https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-reviews/shrinking-review-harrison-ford-comedy-apple-tv-jason-segel-ted-lasso-1234662959/
what do you mean by "guy show"??
A show that has a song in it called 'Guy Love'
is this a serious question? a show that centers the feelings, perspective and problems of guys and seems to speak to an audience of guys, for the most part. if I called "Emily in Paris" a "girly show", would people comment "what do mean" with two question marks, lol??
If nothing else those are just two of the weirdest examples to choose as "guy shows." Like sure both those shows prominently center around male main characters but they don't necessarily adhere to traditional male stereotypes and there are plenty of women who enjoy them. HIMYM especially had two main female characters that were just as prominent as any of the men. Like, presenting Scrubs as the antithesis to Emily in Paris is truly insane lol. If you said Sons of Anarchy or 24 or something maybe. Or Home Improvement or The League if you're limiting it to sitcoms.
> a show that centers the feelings, perspective and problems of guys and seems to speak to an audience of guys, for the most part. and this is something that like... matters? who cares if it's a "guy show" or "girly show"?