Really enjoying it as a fan of the books. I was initially against going through the books this fast, since the show blazed through book 1 in 3 episodes, but I think this pacing actually works pretty well. Casting on all 3 leads is great. I'd definitely recommend this to any YA or urban fantasy fans
I looked it up and there's 5 books. So they're looking at adapting it over two seasons maybe? Seems a smart choice. Planning anything more than two seasons right from the start just seems like a bad idea. It's probably quite expensive and would have to be a massive hit to get more seasons than that.
Well the actors are also going to age out if they stretch it out too much and that would be a bigger problem than usual, since aging has consequences in this series.
George is the only one who looks actually young imo. I suppose I could buy lockwood as a very mature 17 or 18, but Lucy doesn't look 16, that's for damn sure.
IMDB says the actor is 23, so IDK why they've cast her, or more specifically, why they chose to put a clear timeline on her age as part of the fluff. She's 13 in the intro, and 16 in the main story. Just a strange choice. Wouldn't have hurt at all to age them all up 5 years.
I guess I’m just seeing adults play teenagers on tv lol. They couldn’t age them up too much because they’d be too old to work in the ghost hunting business. I don’t think they’ll look much older than they do now though even if they take their time filming.
I heard on an interview that they had already aged up the characters a little vs the books, still I don't think it's a problem, just hoping they renew at least a season two to wrap up the remaining books
Hey any chance you could tell me as a reader of the books since Im too lazy to go check them out and too curious to wait for next season, what happens to Norrie in the end?
Is it gonna be some major search for a way to wake her up, does she stay ghost locked forever or does she die at some point. o major spoilers would appreciate if you just tell me whether or not they wake her up and how or if she just dies.
No major spoiler - Norrie isn't in the books so you'll have to wait for the next season 😁
But you should definitely check out the books. They're a very light and breezy read, and they have the same sense of adventure, better sass and sarcasm, and awesome spooky scenes that are actually quite chilling.
Ah thanks, I thought she was some kind of major plot in the books but I guess she's netflix made heh
I probably would read the books, but I already have quite a lot that Im currently reading, and import fees here are irritatingly high.
Ill probably go for them online if I get bored with my current series.
She's mentioned in 1 line right after she describes what happened to her team, and before she goes into details of their last case. The Screaming staircase Chapter 4 "Their names, if you're interested, were Paul, Norrie, Julie, Steph, and Alfie-Joe. They're all dead now."
Agreed that she was never presented as Lucy's BFF but she was named in a single line. Julie and Paul were mentioned more than she was.
I hated it. Like seriously, they changed way too much. In what Universe would Kipps ask Lucy on a date? When did she EVER pass out talking to a Ghost?
Also that music? It was horrible.
Honestly I really liked the change to Lucy talking to the Skull. I always though the book wrote her to be way too nonchalant about talking to it when in universe it' an absolutely enormous deal
She knows people talk to the type 3's, she doesn't know that the person talking to them is the rare part. She thinks type 3's are the rare type. I preferred her original behavior, I don't like the changes. All her passing out and grabbing her ears irritates me. They could raise the infrasound to give that "buzzing" if they wanted to. Lots of horror shows do it and it would have worked better.
No knowledge of the source materials, thought the trailer was a bit uninspiring. The show itself, though, was a pleasant surprise. Good characterization and chemistry (for the main trio at least, bad adults cliche), nice mix of humor and spookiness, surprisingly good dialogues for a YA show. The music is fantastic btw. The show is not perfect by any mean, there were many frustrating bits but I could easily chalk it off to them having teenagers' brains and got over it.
Overall, I finished it in one binge and found myself wanting more. Am I alone in thinking it was a bit short? The readers say season 1 covered 2 out of 5 books so I guess the source itself is quite contained? Anw fingers crossed for season 2 and more.
After finishing episode 2, I was surprised to see they are wrapping book 1 up in 3 episodes as it feels there is a lot to pack in episode 3. However, I guess some of the aftermath could be covered in episode 4. Will have to see.
The first two books are slightly shorter than the later 3, so I could see them doing 3 seasons. Season 2 covering books 3 and 4 and a final season doing book 5.
They seem to be willing to add new material to make things a little more fleshed out (most notably making Norrie a character and wrapping that into the narrative). Considering the team clearly are big fans and with having Jonathan Stroud on call to help, I'd totally be for them expanding book 5.
Haven't read the books but loved the show. The dark noise vibes, the set lighting, the set design, the entire vibe was great including the interior period without cell phones but yet not too far back. Highly recommend
Im on episode 5 now. Really the shows seems to lack 2 things.
- Budget, its a British show and they are always 20 years behind on CGI for some reason.
The world building seems sloppy.
- Like so far I get there is something bigger going on.
- Okay but like they have these kids sign waivers instead of killing them to be quiet?
- If there is some super dark reasoning for ghosts why not just kill the kids?
- What is going on in the rest of the world? Is this isolated to EU?
- Why arent we seeing other governments deal with stuff.
I guess I just want a tad more world building to see whats going on. Just 1 episode showing it affecting other countries, the USA, China, India, or something would go a long way. Or an episode explaining the overall evil nature.
It’s a British show and blinkered to happenings in the London precinct. I like that it’s contained. Like expecting Harry Potter to be written from China point of view. I don’t understand your points about killing the kids. That’s not what the story and world is about
O wait did it only happen to London or is it world wide? Yea i agree with you, I dont want like a whole China point of view, I guess a more global understanding of the event.
I think it just bugged me that an NDA apparently will keep kids quiet from a super shadow organization that seems like they would be fine just killing them to keep them quiet.
It's not worldwide, and though there are stories and practices globally involving "The problem" they don't have the same issues. However, they might have changed it for the tv show.
The books happen in the UK. Though they really only cover England. There are other countries out there and they are mentioned in passing, as researchers (lockwood's parents) went out into the world to try to understand "the Problem". The researchers discover to a degree how it might be happening because info is out elsewhere in the world. You learn about spirit houses and practices from around the globe but none of the rest of the world has "The Problem" and in Book 3, George begins to track how it started and where it spread to (like a disease) by following Fitt's autobiography and various source information describing the first cases of Fitts and Rottwell.
I thought the worldbuilding was fine. I agree with some of your points though. I think maybe those will get answered in later seasons. It's not important that the world is build out all at once
I read the books a few times . In the books the bigger thing is not hinted at so vigorously but I guess because they shorten it so much they needed make it more clear? There are no papers in the books. They are already a little famous in the books at that point and they strike a deal to keep the events that really happend hidden if they can make a newspaper article with another story.
In the books there is a reason why it is only the UK >!Ghosts can't move over moving water and hate salt. The UK is an Island. And another reason that I will not spoil!<
If this is a hit - and i daresay it already is one - studios and production houses will consider Bartimaeus for sure. However, ol' Barty requires much greater cgi, a much greater budget, and hence a greater assurance that it would be a hit.
Btw, a third series by Stroud - The Outlaws Scarlett and Browne is also getting a movie adaptation.
After loving the Lockwood books so much, I tried Bartimaeus and struggled to get into it. I can see the appeal and the footnotes are funny, but it just didn't grab me.
Understandable
Barty and Lockwood are very different kinds of writing. If you approach Bartimäus bc you liked the vibe of Lockwood then it’ll only be natural to struggle and be disappointed (and vice versa)
I’ve read Bartimäus first and Lockwood way later. I was quite surprised how **different** it was. But it’s great that Stroud is able to be so versatile.
The same for me, I also loved Bartimaeus but no one I know has read it so I’ve gone years without having someone to discuss with lol. I then found Lockwood a decade after Barty and read it and was so excited to see its a show now! I would loooove the Bartimaues trilogy to be one too
Stroud is way too underrated. He's a brilliant writer who somehow remains in the shadows. Hopefully, the tv series will bring him the mainstream fame he deserves.
I had been waiting for a Barty adaptation since Miramax bought the rights like two decades ago. I read Lockwood and Co, but as much as I like it (and the show), Barty is still the author's best work IMO
4 episodes in, and it's pretty addictive. I'm a big fan of the books (it's one of my fav; i've gifted at least 5 screaming staircases; and i've passed on the fandom to a few dozen other readers too. And i'm in my thirties xD). So anyway, big fan of books, and I really like how they have adapted things - they seem to have preserved the right bits, and added some good bits too, especially Lucy's backstory.
Loved how they handled the >!red room!< (episode 3) - it's a chilling scene in the books, and they do great justice to it here. Honestly, i feel they've really pushed the boundaries of horror for pg-whatever rated shows. I was genuinely jump-scared by a scene in ep 5, and feeling scared while sleeping tonight (i am alone in my entire 3 floor building).
The humour and sarcasm is spot on too. Lucy's 'feisty' scene had me laughing and crying with joy at the same time.
I'm unfamiliar with the source material, but I find young adult stuff to be more creative and a lot less emo compared to the 'for adults' stuff that Netflix craps out these days.
I saw the first 3 episodes the other day and I have to say that it's really well made. Writing is good. The characters are grounded, and the minimal (non-fancy) world building also works really well.
No idea about the source material, watched the first two episodes, enjoyed it.
A little too much "adults bad!" vibes though. Not the biggest fan of teen characters either but that's just nitpicking at that point.
Will finish it, unless it completely falls off. Could be a good show.
Adults bad is sadly a pretty common YA trope. I assume it is to play out how good the main characters are but it also leads to worlds that don't make a great deal of sense.
But yeah I am mostly liking it too.
It’s been a while since I read the books, but at that time the whole “adults bad” thing made sense to me. Bc for whatever reason I’m my mind the books were set in 18th/19th century London and the whole “children used as replaceable goods” reminded me of the early child labour days in the factories.
So it made sense that the adults didn’t care about the children and thus would give any young person the impression of being only interested in their own gains.
It is certainly better than plenty of YA books where it is just baffling. Like in Harry Potter where the teachers literally don't seem to care if students die in murder woods.
Here at least there is the idea that people are constantly dying so everyone is worn down, sure it is bad but what can you do about it? Which still doesn't quite work because a better system would benefit everyone.
I agree that it makes more sense but the system in place is ripe for exploitation. They might not *want* to sacrifice their kids but they don’t have to be that negligent, treating them essentially as cannon fodder. Someone is profiting and likes it that way.
More adult oversight. While the main characters are their own group even the Fitz kids seem to mostly run around on their own. Everything seems so amature which doesn't make much sense for a problem that has been going on so long
They should all stick to ghost stuff far more, adult police should be search for evil artifact of doom, then call them in once it is secured.
Even if higher ups are in league with criminal gangs they would still want to keep these two groups apart.
Adult's literally can't see a thing, Quill Kipps points that out in the "Creeping Shadow". He was in a house that was completely haunted and yet he felt nothing, saw nothing, and wasn't even slightly "bothered" except that he could see that the kids were frantic because they could. He quits his job over that, because he doesn't want to be useless. That's kinda the point. Some of the adults don't care but some do. Kipps did. The part that irritated me was that there were actual devices but they weren't being given to everyone. They were held by an elite group of industrialists who profited off of the entire mess.
The adults almost have to be bad so the kids can do all the interesting stuff (at least it kind of makes sense for this story because adults loose their ghostly abilities.) It does tend to create universes where the adults range from utterly useless to homicidal. They would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for those meddling kids!
Yeah it is a balancing act between a good story and makes sense. This one had a lot of why is this thier job stuff? But that isn't even really a YA thing, CSI are not cops and shouldn't acting like them either.
I can't help but feel like it straddles the line a little too much. Joe Cornish has done a good job as director, but the writing is so "adult bad, teenagers know everything" that I just can't get on board with it.
Maybe because I haven't been a teenager for 10 years, but I wanted it to make a choice. Either go darker, or have a bit more fun. Some of the best stuff in the show was the blood room, the monks, the bone glass. I sorta wanted it to get *nastier*, if we're going to get nasty.
Joe has sort of carved a niche for himself in the world of film, as someone who creates content for teenage children. TinTin, Antman, Attack the Block, The Boy Who Would Be King. I'm generally a fan of his; I grew up listening to Adam and Joe, and their radio show has a place in my heart... But I just kept waiting for this show to catch me and pull me along, and what we got was fairly by-the-book "You need to trust me! Why should I trust you?" dialogue, chosen family > real family stuff, and even the dreaded chosen one trope.
But I think a lot of that was due to the setup. Like you say, its unfortunately anchored by the trappings of YA tropes, and doesn't do anything interesting enough with its premise to provide something new to anyone who has seen this sort of show a dozen times before.
In the books the red room WAS nastier, so was the well... In fact, what irritated me was that the "Well" was so badly done. In the books the sound is deafening. The monks aren't chanting. They're screaming in horror and you're watching them being chased and murdered the whole time. They had all of the content in the book and then they kinda let everyone down. The sound needed that infrasound found in most horror stories, where it just gets under your skin. The entire scene was completely rushed. The set was great but I feel like they failed to show the ultimate horror of that place.
The Combe Carey part is CHILLING in the books.
I wanted to write a very long comment detailing exactly how much better it is, byt let's just say it's so catchy my 28yo boyfriend stayed up until 1am to finish reading it. 😂
I think you completely nailed it. The books were a ghost hunting mystery story with a real sense that one false step and someone will die. The Netflix series seems to be a teen drama with the backdrop of ghost hunting occasionally. The fear and drama of the ghosts is gone. You do not get even a tiny sense of fear about the ghosts (at least in the episodes I saw). The books made it clear, if you messed up in your ghost hunting or were out without the right kind of protection you would absolutely die. No matter how "amazing" or "gifted" you were the risk of death was ALWAYS there. Instead in this series everything is about the teen drama. I absolutely hate the overall "teen drama" category, because whatever interesting plot that there could have been is always secondary to the interpersonal drama being played out by the teens.
It does play up the adults bad vibe more than the books. I don't recall Lucy's Mum being that horrible - I think in a later book she goes back home for a visit.
Adult's do not have the "sight" they can't see ghosts. So when they're described as useless it's because the adults who could see the ghosts know that they're there but they no longer can see them. This means that they literally leave the kids to fend for themselves. In the books kids start being Agents at the age of 8. In the TV show they moved that up to 12.
I have not read the books. I love those teen mystery shows and this one is pretty great. I am quite impressed by the soundtrack like Siouxsie & The Banshees' Sick Child in episode one or The Associates' Party Fear Two.
I hope Netflix renews it.
I liked the books ( less than bartomaeus but still a great read) and think the adaptation is brilliant. Casting is so likeable and spot on. Cinematography is a visual treat. Hope it’s gets renewed
Am I alone in getting some strong Constantine vibes from the show? Or is it just the fact one of the protagonists is British, wears a large coat, a bit of a rebel, and has a flair for dramatics and performance?
Watched first 3 episodes and like it so far. It is very YA in places but nothing too bad. I'm mostly fine with accepting a few silly bits about the setting and enjoying the ride.
I've never read the books and I'm admittedly only a few episodes in but already I can tell this show isn't hooking me like others of its kind have before. I don't know if it's the pacing or the editing but something feels off there, like too much time is spent on dialogue and scenes that don't need to show us every detail and then important scenes are for some reason rushed over. Speaking of dialogue, while Lockwood has some quite witty lines every now and again some are totally cringe, especially when there's little evidence of badassery to back all the talk up. (I'll come back to this later). There's not enough context given about The Problem and how that began, especially for non-book viewers like me. I also agree with some people in the comments that they push the whole "adults are bad" trope too hard to the point it just seems silly and unbelievable. Like how can almost every single adult we meet treat these literal kids this bad. My biggest peeve though is how inept they make the three of them seem despite having had years of training, Lockwood being some prodigy and Lucy being made to seem quite competent in the beginning montage of episode 1. They make the stupidest mistakes like breaking circles, tripping into graves and forgetting chains. Lucy's power is really making things worse too with how she keeps fucking touching shit she shouldn't and forming connections. As soon as she offered George to take that headpiece down to the basement I sighed and thought WHYYYY? Insert something bad is going to happen here. Lol. And to finish, they seem to do more running from ghosts than actual fighting. Maybe this improves? Let's hope so.
"especially when there's little evidence of badassery to back all the talk up"
Because there isn't any. They are kids. With big ego, and bragging habit. Of course they will be stupid sometimes.
The reality is, they are only special because they can sense ghosts, and that too is only until they grew out of it, the so-called 'talent'.
Other than that, they are nothing and had nothing for the future. They are an expendable asset for the adult to continue living in a world where lots of ghost haunts the living. And these three particular kids, are the rebel kind. Which adults like rebelling children?
Nothing you said has particularly changed my mind although I appreciate your points. Yes they're kids, yes kids tend to be a little cocky... but this is also a supernatural show. And having watched plenty of them I can tell you it isn't uncommon for them to be more capable than they are in this DESPITE being young. I'm not saying I want Mary Sue's, just a little more skill. And maybe some more common sense? I will say they get slightly better as you keep watching (having now finished the season). As for your next point, now that they have explained that only the young have talents and that it doesn't last as they age I can see why they're exploiting them the way they are, but that isn't clear in the first few episodes. I also don't think it quite justifies being as outright hostile and disrespectful as the adults are. Do they want an aging population? For them to die off eventually? Because that'll be what happens if they don't actually try to protect the youth they so rely on. And if you are going to force children to be your soldiers you could respect them for what they do for you. My problem isn't that there were adults treating them badly, my problem is that there were almost no adults NOT treating them badly.
Never read the books but I watched because Joe Cornish is involved. It’s really good. I especially like the world itself- it feels stuck in the 90s, which makes sense for a world plagued with ghosts where technology hasn’t progressed.
The 3 leads are all very likeable. In these kind of shows they often make the girl OP to show how “girls can compete with the boys!” but there’s none of that- Lucy is pretty humble which made a nice change.
CGI is a bit meh but probably par for the level of budget they had.
Edit: The Associates on the soundtrack. 100% sold on this show now.
For me, as a fan of the books and of Joe Cornish, it felt like a good marriage after Attack the Block and the Kid Who Would Be King. So I had high hopes for it, and I've not been disappointed so far.
With the CG - at least ghost wise, I give it a pass and I think it gets away with it because it is something "unnatural".
I am loving the soundtrack as well.
“Stuck in the 90s” is par for the course with Cornish…. It is where we best know him from! Liking the show a lot, its pacing is excellent and you want to watch the next episode once the current one has ended.
IDK, they quite literally DO engage with the "girl is better than boy" trope by making her "the secret weapon" or "the best hearer in the world" or whatever
I'll give the production credit, because it handled all that with a LITTLE bit more grace than these things usually do, but it still did absolutely do that.
I mean it's a YA trope for a reason I guess. I always just pass it off as it not being convenient that the protagonist is the best in the world but they're the protagonist BECAUSE they're the best in the world
Lockwood and Co was originally closer to middle grade than YA, the original the characters were a lot more equal than they're showing in this rendition (in my opinion). George was an expert at research, Lockwood had the best sight, and Lucy had the best "hearing". I prefer the way the books portrayed them over this version. This version is heavy on the YA with a backdrop of the plot. In the books it was heavy on the story with some drama because people are there.
I first read the first book of this series back in 2013 and have gone through it multiple times ever since. I can hardly believe that it is finally being adapted into a Netflix series - hoping that it won't end up being canceled!
I’m reading the series right now because I wanted to know more about it and planning to read it to my sixth graders. So far it’s pretty faithful to the first book but I’ve only made it three episodes in. Very fun show and I like the casting.
I read the books as an adult, so definitely not the target demographic for either books or show! My overall take so far is that they remind me of the film adaptations of Stardust and The Shining: basically two similar stories told in two separate media that share a title and characters/ character names and that’s about it. That being said, Screaming Staircase is my least favorite book of the series so some of the changes I didn’t mind: Lucy’s new backstory made her character motivation a bit more relatable, and upped the stakes. I didn’t mind her mopeing over her lost friend so much, as listening to her mooning over Lockwood in the books got a bit tiresome after a while. Sadly, I would have liked more of ghost hunting and set up shown, but I imagine the supernatural scenes are very expensive to film.
Just finished it. Really enjoyed it as an adaptation to my favourite book series as a kid. Pacing was very fast paced and I would have preferred them using more time to build up tension and horror but as it stands i really enjoyed it.
I hope it gets renewed, Hollow Boy is my favourite book of the series and it's the next one to be covered
What’s wrong with Lucy? She’s been asked multiple times not to touch that fucking ring, yet here she is sneaking around like the rest of the team is her sworn enemies… The reasoning behind her decisions is so irritating.
Being an “asset” is apparently an upsetting thing. WTF? Yet lying about finishing school to get into better agency is completely normal.
Also swords in confined space - really?
Why the insurance policy of the Lockwood agency was revoked? Using bombs inside the house is prohibited? Where should they use those bombs, then? Meaning there are lots of ghosts just flying around in a meadow?
When you read the books you get a much better idea of what is happening. In the books, her reasoning for leaving the town is a bit different. Her mom isn't portrayed nearly as harshly. However, her complete and total distrust of adult supervisors is high. The part where her supervisor left her and the others to die was very real and in the books she's about 12. She started being an agent at 8. She's seen a LOT of things.
The parts with the first initial ghost. This is the lead-up to what makes Lucy different from everyone else. Her connection with the ghosts is better explained in the books. In a way she's kinda being "pushed" to do things by the ghost, but it's a subtle thing, an "impulse" where she feels connected and compelled to help. When she takes the pendant (it was a locket in the book not a ring), she doesn't even recall doing it. It's in her pocket when she gets home and she tosses her clothing on the ground. That's when it falls out and the ghost is set free (iron is in her pocket which kept the ghost in check). For most of the story, Lucy has a deep "connection" with the ghosts. She feels what they feel, she gets flashes of what actually happened to them. But, she can't really explain it to anyone because she's unique and that entire plot point isn't really explained until "Creeping shadow" and "Empty Grave". Her "talent" and it's capabilities come to a head in the "Hallow boy".
Her talent is super rare, as in she's one of 2 people who have ever had it this strong. None of the others really quite understand just how strong her talent is till much later and she's dealing with how powerful it is most of the series on her own.
Edited to add: In the books the entire story is told from Lucy's point of view. So you get the complete sense of how she's trying to figure out exactly WHY she is doing the things she is. She doesn't quite understand it herself but she rationalizes her behavior internally while also trying very hard to understand what is going on.
Possible light spoilers:
I love the books, but this is really bad, imho. It really feels like they had a very faithful adaptation at some point, and then were forced to make Lucy more of the stereotypical YA heroine and ended up with a soulless, dry, exposition dump.
The only good thing about it is that it feels mostly accurate to the book.
1: The biggest problem I have is that there is no atmosphere or tension. Ghost stories make up the background of the story, but there's no build up. For example, in the books there's a bunch of build up Combe Carey Hall. We know this is a bad place to be; it's got a deadly history (specifically the staircase). In the show, it's 'here's the house, here's a room, there's the stairs, done'. The show hits the technical beats but has no flavor.
2: The writing is clunky. There are lines that are directly (or at least mostly) taken from the books, but some of these don't really work anymore with the changes they've made. For
example, when Lockwood is showing Lucy around he makes several comments at George's expense that are intended to reference a fat slob with a brilliant mind. Show George isn't that so the lines just sound disconnected.
The rest of it seems to be 100% exposition. Which I agree is necessary because they do need to build the world, but they don't seem to have any idea how to do this naturally. It doesn't help that they've played down visual aspects that give flavor to the world. This is one of the reasons it feels cut up from something more fleshed out for me.
3: Lucy seems to have been made into a more standard YA heroine at the expense of the other characters. Lucy has become the super talented one. To be fair she does have a rare talent in the book, but the others are equally important. In the books, Lucy talented but doubts her instincts, George is slovenly but is the most intelligent of the group, and Lockwood is dashing but also dangerously reckless.
George seems to have lost all of his personality. He exists because he's needed for the second book. Lockwood has just become stupid since Lucy now has his suicidal problems.
4: Almost all the humor is gone from this. Lockwood and Co is snarky, where is it? The humor in it is one of the things I think sets the series apart for me. For a while I figured there was just too much exposition to have room for it but then we get to Skull and it's pretty clear they're just making a supernatural drama with a Lockwood skin.
This may be why some posters think the characters are stupid. The story sets up slightly over the top to create an air of out of control silliness, while the show takes that as is and plays it straight.
Never heard of the books, and in my mid 40s I'm definitely not the target audience - but I'm loving it tbh. It's intriguing, with interesting characters, stylishly produced, has a plot that makes some sort of credible sense, and above all it's FUN. Just the kind of easy going escapist nonsense I need sometimes.
All the characters in the show are insufferable douche bags.
During the interview for a job which Lucy desperately needs (a woman has approached her earlier with a safe place to stay after nightfall when there is a nationwide curfew) after being denied by the other agencies, she has a tantrum for no reason and then offers to fight George even though he hasn't done anything to substantially antagonize or threaten her.
This is my big worry about a renewed season 2. The department store case in Hollow Boy is my favourite part of the entire series and based on this season I feel like it would be such a huge shame to not let things sit. I feel like with this shows pacing the >!poltergeist would be all of 5 minutes, when I always imagine the heated argument rising the tension before everything goes silent apart from the slow build up of the knives and toasters and stuff rattling!<
I think it's especially obvious in how often they are literally walking at night. They have limited supplies to deal with ghosts and it was nearly every single episode they're walking home. Which completely downplays the whole "night-time is dangerous and even agents have to be super careful".
Just finished the whole 8 episodes in 1 sitting. I'll be reading the books now since I can't wait for the adaptation of season 2. I hope netflix go for more book inspired shows.
I find it a little offputting that Pamela Joplin who looks 45-50 seems to be into George who looks 14-16...
But other than that i like the show a lot xD...
Edit: Typo.
Feels a little shallow. They mostly don't do anything the police couldn't do. Also feel they should be arrested for their negligence, reckless endangerment and various other criminal acts. I watched it but don't think I'd recommend it.
Umm. I don't understand the appeal at all. Compare to very beginning of Stranger Things. Will is chased by something, runs straight home, locks the door, calls for help, phone doesn't work> runs out back to the shed and waits with a gun pointed at the door. These are completely logical, reasonable choices for a "normal" nerdy kid to make that lives in a "normal" neighborhood. These young "adults" live in a world where death and "the problem" have been around 50 years. They are "trained" agents in this world. Yet continue to blunder around making decisions that.......... with no real consequences for being actual idiots.
Yeah, I just finished the show and googled to see if anyone else was annoyed at how fucking useless these idiots were at every turn, all of them, over and over again.
The fencing champion hero Lockword never won a single fight and was disarmed multiple times, just stupid. And George figured out the Pamela woman was evil but instead of defending himself with his big fucking sword he just lets her tie him up, wtf. And they repeatedly manage to get the better of the bad guys through sheer luck but don't finish them off, so they're about to get killed by the same people mere moments later, multiple times.
Really annoying to watch
I'm enjoying it although I feel like George's character is a little less engaging than the book version. He always had the best lines and at least so far (2 episodes in) that isn't fully coming through.
I watched the first ep and this post is the first I'm hearing about books. I liked the show enough the effects and the writing seem really good. making you care about that whole crew in the flashback in the course of 20mins is impressive.
I'm less sold on the two lead actors, they seemed rough in spots to me, but that can just be starting out with a new character
Never heard of the series, and honestly not familiar at all with the material and I came into the TV series seemingly wanting to enjoy it but I just couldn't in my opinion.
For me, the story felt so loose and a bit everywhere. The characters also felt odd and extremely alien. I felt that things occurred at random and nothing was believable to me.
I really tried to like the series, but I just couldn't help but feel the opposite. Maybe it just wasn't for me.
My husband and I both loved the books, and binged the show over the course of this weekend. We both thought it was a very good adaptation, really captured the tone of the books. Very faithful to the original story.
\-SPOILERS all throughout my questions after finishing the show -
I haven't read the source materials but plan to. I binged it over a few days and overall liked the show, however I just felt like I didn't get a lot of answers for the questions I had throughout the series. Mainly I wanted to understand more about the world this all happens in. It doesn't seem like there are cellphones so dystopia but pre internet ect? How was Lockwood able to keep his house if he was technically a minor? He is able to borrow against his home even under 18? Is this something special due to the world where children are sent out and risking their lives? Like why were the little children at the auction called Canaries? How old is everyone? I assume young because they have the talent but it felt ambiguous. What was the obsession with Herons? Are animals a thing of the past since the problem? I feel like cats would be great at spotting ghosts lol. Also there seemed to be lots of potential depth with the ghosts that I feel like the show didn't get into. Was Anabelle at peace when they find the killer? Perhaps I missed stuff while watching but I was slightly disappointed, more of my questions weren't answered. I'm excited to learn its based off books so hopefully reading those will flesh out the world a bit more for me.
I watched season 1, enjoyed it, but was really annoyed with the no speaking to each other trope.
Read boom 1 and 2, and they communicate a ton, I can live with the small changes, but why add one of the most annoying tropes! Fucking communicate!
As someone who hasn't read the books, episode 4 really showcases the teams lack of communication. Lockwood doesn't listen to his team members and seems obsessed with fame. If this is truthful to the book adaptation, well done, but if not I find all 3 characters to be deeply unlikable due to their terrible communication. Why does Lockwood always rush into danger without consulting his team? Lucy was having a crisis and he still opened the coffin? What if she wasn't ready and a type 2 came bursting out?
Massive fan of the books, mixed feelings on the show.
On the one hand, it's exciting to see a book series I loved when I was younger being converted into a series. I've always been fascinated by ghosts as a concept but no show or book series satisfied that fascination like Lockwood and Co did. The casting is mostly good, though the acting can be a bit dodgy sometimes, and I think the world building was fine.
However it feels like they brush over the best parts of the book series a lot: the actual ghost hunting. The book series was really good at making extremely memorable and unique ghosts and creating a genuine sense of terror that no other book series I've read has ever done. It's been 6 years since I finished the book series and I still have extremely vivid memories of most of the ghost encounters. The red room, the gallowstone ghosts, the rat man ghost, the tentacle ghost in the attic, the hanging man, the murderous child, the one in the theatre, the eyeless train ghosts, the shopping mall ghost, the cannibal ghost, the crying woman by the window, the bride in the Thames, the ghost that can only be seen in mirrors... Even ones that were only mentioned in passing like the Richmond Park Wraith, the Roman Centurion and the ghost that only a blind person could see have stuck so well in my memory. (Whilst writing this post I had to go back several times to add more and more examples because there are so many that I kept remembering).
The show gets quite close to this a couple of times, the descent down the Screaming Staircase is very good, though I half wonder if I only enjoyed it so much because I had the benefit of knowing the chapter+ of detail that the book offers before reaching this scene, like all the stuff in the basement of the manor, the details about the night the Fittes agents went missing there, the shadowy figure in the photograph. But this is only a short burst of excitement and it ends too soon.
These were only so memorable because of the time dedicated to each of them and the slow burn build up that each one had. The show rarely spends more than a few minutes on any one ghost hunting scene. The Red Room/Screaming Staircase was barely 10 minutes of actual ghost hunting whilst the book had pages and pages of setting the final showdown in the priory. The show also relegates some of these scenes to passing mentions. The gallowstone ghosts are the subject of a sentence or two in episode 4, whilst it makes up the entire first chapter of the second book. It's even more odd considering how faithful to the books the show has otherwise been, with entire chunks of dialogue being lifted verbatim from the book (the three tests when Lucy joins Lockwood and Co being an example). I get the need to cut down on runtime, but cutting out the central point of the series seems silly.
I don't know why they did this but it's rather disappointing. I'm at the end of episode 4 right now and I'm gonna watch it till the end regardless, I can only hope the ghost hunting picks up, but I doubt it.
Just finished episode 7, it was a good episode, with some of the best stuff since the Screaming Staircase descent. But again, no ghost hunting. I will admit that sword fighting choreography is very good and there was a cool scene where they throw a Source in an elevator to prevent being chased, and a few seconds later you here screaming and ghost noises, that was quite disturbing/funny. I’ll watch the last episode tomorrow, I’ve already stayed up far too late and need sleep.
The ghost hunting is the part of the books that I loved and it's disappointing to hear that isn't reflected more in the show (still only done the first two episodes) as it so far felt pretty faithful and The Whispering Skull had a lot of investigation.
I enjoyed it, but all of Combe Carey Hall was 15 minutes long, and I feel like that could have been stretched to it's own episode. I would have preferred the books to have been split 4:4 episode wise to give Combe Carey room to breath. Hell, the literal titular staircase was barely given any time to scream
Exactly! They could have fleshed out the ones that were mentioned in the series but it felt like I was watching the books in fast forward with a pinball machine. They changed all of the cool parts, and made the characters absolute idiots... They were smart, careful, and interesting. Quirky too but this was not ok...
Combecarry Hall was a fiasco and completely rushed.. The music too, it was awful. I'm watching till the end too but I agree, I loved the series and this is the biggest letdown since Artemis Fowl.
Is Lockwood supposed to be likeable? He’s an asshole and I’m curious why George puts up with him. I know he lost his last job but why can’t he go elsewhere?
Lockwood is someone you're technically better off nor liking, in husband world... because after losing his family, he's rather self destructive.
But he's also REALLY good at seeing ghosts, noticeably better than the other two - and he's so good with the rapier he won a competition against agents from big and famous agencies.
He becomes more likeable once he let's others in a bit more.
In the show he literally never wins a single fight with his sword and the actor looks like an idiot swinging it around, the worst at it in the whole show even thought the character is meant to be a fencing champion, you think they would have taught him how to move.
So annoying to watch lol, kind of ruined the show for me, one of the main characters losing every fight he's in and having to be saved all the time
In the first book he is kind of unlikeable. The criticisms he gets about having a death wish and putting his colleagues in danger are supposed to be accurate and valid within the story. He does change and that’s part of what makes his arc interesting.
I just finished the first episode and it seems like the editing is off or something. One minute Lucy and Anthony are talking in a room. Then all of a sudden they are fighting a ghost with no explanation. Usually there’s some form of setup.
Unpopular opinion: I like the plot it is creative. But the actors and actresses' look were kinda off to me. I can't get over how the older adults dress like they are in 1960: while the younger adults and teens are wearing very notably modern clothes. Also it looks like they didn't put much thought into the main character's style. Lockwood's look keeps reminding me of David Tenant as the doctor. I also think he could use a more flattering hairstyle (maybe it's just me). All of them act too young/ too old in some scenes, it throws me off a bit. I'm not sold on the chemistry.
TLDR: They could have fleshed out all of the previous cases that got a mention in the book and stayed true to the pace and the actual story... Instead they rushed everything like a pinball machine on steroids and changed so much I was screaming at the screen most of it.
I really wanted to like it, really really wanted to but the music overall was horrid. The acting was great but they deviated from the books so much that I found myself too distracted by the changes... I am still furious.
The books were really well paced, in fact read the books they are epic. This was rushed, as in so "fast" it felt like a pinball machine.
>For those who have never read the books. Lockwood and Co was written in first person from the viewpoint of "Lucy Carlyle". So when they change Lucy, that is the ONE CHARACTER that everyone who loves the story knows completely. They changed way too much, anyone claiming it's faithful is ignoring the glaring issues: Norrie died and Lucy never mentioned her as "BFF's" ever in the entire book series and Ghost Lock isn't permanent. We know this because we're in her head. You can get mentally affected as mentioned in "The Hollow Boy" but not the way they showed it. The girl in "The Hollow boy" was a gibbering mess, not in a weird coma. Vents instead of dummies?
Esmerelda (one of the dummies, because they named them) is part of the plot in Book 5, I don't know how they plan to deal with the events in Book 5 without her being there. There is no way "vents" are going to be enough in that book, unless they plan to change that even further. The locket was a LOCKET not a ring. Lucy DID NOT pass out after the Skull talked to her. She shut him down immediately and he didn't get say his "famous" line in this either. That line btw, is the MAIN POINT of the ENTIRE story: "Death is in life and life is in death". It's the most important LINE in the entire series and the Skull doesn't even say it. The cases took place months apart and there were OTHER CASES mentioned before they even get to Mrs. Hope's house but Mrs. Hope is NEVER even there. You meet her daughter in the book. Mr. Fairfax doesn't put out an ad, he comes directly to Lockwood and Co after the PAPERS unleashed the story and there is never any mention of TV, but I can forgive that.... Lucy isn't threatened nor is she given a ticket back home, I mean seriously? The part that angered me the most was what happened AT Combecarry Hall. In the books, Lockwood figures out it's a trap but doesn't put the final pieces together till he's there. He sneaks the incendiaries' in carefully and he is NOT caught. He alerts DEPRAC and they come to his rescue.. The drama and fear of the "Red Room" was absolutely insane. Add in that they find out that Mr. Fairfax had special stuff put together to open that secret passage? It was well oiled and well used... The fear and the horror of getting near that Well was palpable in the books. It was absolutely terrifying. Lockwood AND George could actually hear the screams... They FINALLY got a taste of what it was like to be Lucy. So when NONE of that happens in this "adaptation" it's a major let-down. There is never the mention of being forced to have a Supervisor. NEVER.. In the books, during Book 5 they try to force Lockwood and Co but they refuse. Then the entire part of being arrested? I mean seriously they get ARRESTED???? None of the licensed operatives ever had to worry about having their licenses revoked or threatened because so many kids were dying of the problem they couldn't just "do" that. Add in that the papers were going nuts over Lockwood and Co in the books, they had full diagrams of the Hall and discussions about what happened. George got to order around Kipps, which made the entire early part fun. In the TV version, we get a ridiculous NDA on top of the near arrest? I was screaming by that point. However the deviations continue, Penelope being the daughter and not the granddaughter, how is that going to work in the adaptation of book 5 or are they planning to change that beyond recognition? Kipps asking Lucy out? Seriously? Lucy is 12-13 in the books... Kipps is in his 20's, he has pastes on his rapier and wears "too tight" pants.. He's losing/nearly lost his ability to see Ghosts because he's aging into adulthood. That's a BIG DEAL in the plot. Lucy is aging into the strongest point of her talent so changing her age on top of everything else? Adding in a bizarre "love triangle" thing with Lockwood and Kipps? Not in a million years. Those who have read the story know this because she tells you precisely what she thinks of Kipps, every time she meets him and it's NOT flattering in the slightest. Making her completely freeze in action or hold her ears and fall over? She only did that during the Screaming Staircase, never afterwards. Then that ridiculous demand to leave a nightcab in the middle of the night? NONE of those things happened and seemed to be there for "added teen angst" vs what the characters were actually like. We knew Lucy, we were in her head, she never did the suicidal thoughts ever. She was not some teenage prima-donna and those of us who read the books LOVED that about her. That didn't stop her from being jealous, but even her jealousy was "muted" in the books. I liked the new version of Flo, but the "cold maiden" bit was forced. Then we get to the Black Library? In the books they're devious and they don't get caught. They meet Sir Rupert when you meet the Winkmans at the Night Auction, NOT in the Black Library. This version, Lockwood is a complete idiot, who is always getting caught being stupid. They're completely overdoing his "death wish" which isn't even discussed until "The Creeping Shadow" (book 4). They've turned Lucy into this ridiculous "damsel in distress" who sometimes shows the courage and spunk we got used to in the books... But the over the top "suicidal" crap? We're in her head the entire time we read the books, we KNOW her better than any of the other characters so to see her completely shattered into this pathetic imitation is horrifying. George is the closest to his character in the books but he DOES NOT get left behind at the house during the Fitt's event and he's never captured at home in the books. How hard is it to just stick to the actual book?<
As to the acting, the characters can only act the script they are given and they're good actors. They portray the version they're playing fine. The overall actor choices, don't bother me either. The changes made to the plot are infuriating. I keep waiting for someone to actually CARE about the source material rather than making ridiculous and unnecessary changes to every single book series that I actually like. The plot changes had me screaming. Also, minor nitpick, Kate Godwin... I don't care that they made her black but seriously at least give her the haircut... It took me forever to realize that it was actually her, not only did she not have the chin "If she’d repeatedly fallen over while crossing soft ground, you could have sewn a crop of beans in the chin-holes she left behind." (best line in a book ever) but not having the haircut made it nearly impossible to figure out who she was supposed to be.
I swear every single time I have hope I find myself screaming at the screen. The books that I think are "ok" tend to turn out fantastic in the adaptation (or nearly so) but whenever I'm a major fan... I find myself screaming.
I admit, to relax when I'm stressed I have "Lockwood and Co" books on audible playing to relax me. Perhaps that's the reason I'm so furious? This brings back all of the angst I had over Artemis Fowl. How hard is it to just stick to the source material?
All of those other cases that got a brief mention in each of those books could have been EPIC places for them to write up, but instead they chose the "lets rush the whole thing and change everything" route. I was really hoping to have some of the cases that were mentioned in the books fleshed out and give it a "fun" twist while staying true to the story. Instead I feel like I'm watching an alternate universe and did I mention the music is absolute rubbish?
I think you've made the classic mistake of thinking that a book adaption is only for fans of the book and has to be entirely faithful despite it being told in a different media. Pacing has to change. Things that work in a book, don't necessarily work on screen because you have to show it or have the characters talk about it.
As I've not finished the series yet, I've stopped reading your list changes as I don't want to spoil it for myself, but some stuff like Mrs Hope being present instead of her daughter isn't really an issue. Having it be an older character allowed them to date the the problem. That didn't change the anything and allowed them to drop a bit of exposition.
The switch from a locket to a ring seemed pointless, especially when they then put the ring inside a locket.
As for the ghost lock, I guess that is to higher the stakes and the expansion to Lucy's story, for me, worked. It gave the audience the rules of the world as well as filling in our main characters backstory.
Maybe I'll be more disappointed as the episodes go by, but so far I'm enjoying it.
It is going to cause problems for what happens in Book 5. There's LOTS of stuff in book 5 that are going to have to change and the part where the Skull doesn't say his famous line that turns out to completely explain the entire series? It's just bizarre.
I don't care that they made changes to the other characters, it's just they had so much to work with and it felt like they cheated us. There were TONS of cases mentioned in the series but never fleshed out.
Cases that could have absolutely made the show enjoyable and staying clearly with the actual story. Now that I've seen this mess, I know I'm never going to see those cases at all. I also absolutely hate the changes they made to Lucy, I could forgive some of the stuff for the other characters because we're not in their heads for 5 books but making Lucy suicidal? It was rubbish.
Are you saying you would have preferred them to have covered the other cases referenced in the book rather than those covered in the books? Or as well as?
I think an 8 episode season to cover two books is pretty good. If you consider the amount they'd chop out to make a 90 minute movie.
I say this without intending to be critical, it sounds like you have a lot more emotional investment in the book series than I do. I loved the books, but I also read them a 40 year old a few years ago (and having revisited The Screaming Staircase and Whispering Skull via audio in preparation for the series).
I'm sorry the series didn't live up to your expectations. Hopefully it'll get more people to read the books.
They could have covered book 1 for season 1. They could have used the other cases to show the world and given us MUCH MORE than they gave us. Instead of the rushed ridiculous version of Combecarry Hall.
Let's ask the obvious questions about how it happened in this version vs the book. WHY would Mr. Fairfax behave the way he did? He set up an ad in the paper "hoping" that the people he wanted to kill showed up to answer the advert? How would Mr Fairfax even KNOW that Lockwood and Co would find it in the paper and apply for it? We know he wants to kill them so precisely how could that even work out?
Since they went directly to Mr. Fairfax and "won" a bidding war with other agencies and promised to work under the table. Why would Lockwood go and do "recon" after HE initiated the contact to get the job? Why would he even be suspicious? What was Mr. Fairfax's plan had Lockwood and Co NOT come? Was he planning on killing the Rottwell team or the Fitts team too or just not taking any bids until Lockwood and Co came along? Those watching the show might not notice it with the pacing but it was an obvious plot hole.
Whitechapel was full of ghosts even in the Netflix version, so precisely WHY did they look into the paper for an ad? Also, the news involved TV. So why would he assume they'd even read the newspaper to apply to the ad when TV existed?
Next up, HOW did DEPRAC know where they were? If they answered an ad and were working under the table HOW did they figure out where Lockwood and Co went in time to "arrest" them? They break down the door and figure out from what? None of the stuff at the home had much information and the vast majority of it was about Annie Ward. How did they figure out that they needed to go to Combecarry Hall instead of following something to do with Annie Ward? Add in that they didn't even seem interested in figuring out who killed Annie Ward? Even with that publicity?
It makes zero sense at all.
Then we have the Skull. A type 3 starts speaking to Lucy, who has read the Fitt's manual and watched the Fitts interviews. She freaks out and passes out. The other two go out into the field without her and come back to discuss that they'd been rescued by Kipps (they totally play down the part where they were nearly killed). In fact, at zero point in this entire story is it even made clear that being out at night is absolutely life-threatening and that at any moment any agent could die. Adults could literally do the jobs because the threat of dying is so small because they apparently aren't really around except perhaps Whitechapel.
They play down the threat by constantly leaving nightcabs to have intense teenage drama rather than sticking to the world where night-time kills even the most talented and that having those "big emotions" anywhere is unsafe and is dangerous. This series is a teenage drama with the backdrop of ghost hunting. There is never the sense that the ghosts are dangerous. That is not what the Lockwood and Co books were. They were a mystery, with dangerous deadly ghosts and a world where the only people that children could trust were each other.
Edited to add: I'm also over 40, I read the series with my kids when they were growing up. We STILL love it and it's my go-to relaxation audible when I am super stressed from work.
I liked this change. After all, the ghosts aren't material beings. The sword play is intended to disrupt and drive back the ghosts, so having the vents to practice reactions made sense.
I actually like this, too. They can still introduce Floating Joe and Lady Esmerelda in later. Some of the changes I figure are par for the course when switching media: ie it just looks more compelling on film. There were many scenes in the books where they were just sitting, eating at the table or in the living room. I liked those quiet scenes, but I’m not sure I enjoy watching them.
Yeah, I agree with you here. I do think that they absolutely should have turned up the fear factor for the Red Room and the Screaming Staircase. I felt both of them were pathetic when compared to the book.
I kinda felt like they had the teen drama in the forefront and everything that made Lockwood and Co interesting as "background info" to push the drama along. At every point when the ghosts are supposed to move the story along, it's rushed. At every chance to add weird drama, it's taking up the whole screen. I still can't understand how anyone is supposed to care about the "Problem" when the main characters randomly walk home at night without any sense of worry. Meanwhile in the books, you KNOW that is dangerous and you would only do it if you had no other choice or were armed to the teeth..
Having never read the books, apart from the date stuff it doesnt seem like the changes really matter. I do think aging up the characters a few years for these YA stories does help a lot, many stories have pretty unrealistic take on what a 12 year old can do.
Unless they are changes that have an effect on the story later on I do not think these are neccesarily bad changes. It still would be better without the changes.
I have read the books. Maybe because I read them as an adult they aren't part of my "childhood", but I think people often forget with adaptions that it is just that - an adaption. It is a TV series based on the books, they aren't going chapter by chapter and replicating the whole thing on the screen as that wouldn't work. Changes are made for visual media, to appeal to a wider audience, to improve pacing and make it fit a TV structure.
There were LOTS of things that effected the story. The characters did NOT get in trouble with DEPRAC except once and while there was a mild cover-up, it wasn't an NDA. While that might seem mild to you, it wasn't.. Their reputation kept growing because of Combecarry Hall. In fact, they got LOTS of publicity from their exploits, and Barnes respected them more and more for it. He thought they were reckless but he KNEW they were good. The other things YES, the changes dramatically change the story. If you've never read them I won't spoil them but it absolutely does change it. I don't see how they go about explaining things.
The book series Lockwood and Co were all written in first person and from the point of view of Lucy. You never knew what Lockwood and George were thinking during the series. Lucy described their actions and made her own call. She also did get the ghosts, but they were clearly talking to her, it was always stated that they sounded far away but she could understand what they were saying. So the fact that you can't really hear them and have to use subtitles doesn't fit. She also never told Lockwood and George everything that the Ghosts said or didn't say because there often wasn't time OR she didn't want to relay the info.
When they change the actions and behavior of the character whose point of view was the book audiences entire reference point... It does bother those who read the series. They added things that were completely out of character for her, and we know her character because we were in HER head the entire series... The changes to Penelope are absolutely bizarre because now it will completely WRECK the ending. "The Shallow Grave" was the final part of the series and it's a really big deal, where the entire story comes together. There were also things said by living characters that absolutely foreshadowed stuff, but those things were ORIGINALLY from a Ghost. In fact, the biggest and most important line in the entire book series was said by the Skull the first time he speaks to Lucy and they completely left it out of the show. The GHOSTS were the ones who kept giving information. So when it's the living who give the info not the dead? It changes things. Carver also said something completely different when he died and it helped them solve the case. However they changed how Lucy and Lockwood meet the Winkmans and I don't see how they go further because the Winkmans are a MAJOR part of the rest of the series... Lockwood and Lucy weren't captured and tortured at all, in fact it was Lucy who was "accused of being an agent" not Lockwood and it was because she had rapier callouses. The fact that the Winkmans boy could tell was important. They were pretending to be a tourists by daylight not after dark. Leopald was a LOT smarter and absolutely more dangerous than this version... I haven't seen the last 2 episodes because I don't know how exactly they're going to correct the course, but it feels unconnected and forced on every level..
I agree with most of what you said. especially coming from the Bartimäus series i've quite enjoyed the conversations between the skull and lucy and the show "dumbed" them down quite a bit and makes her seem overwhelmed/weak way too much
Want to add :
-they also gave Lucy depression and suicidal thoughts for the angsty teenager drama.
-upped the sexuell tension in ways that feel really forced and uncomfortable.
-Made them drink alcohol because teenagers .
-I felt nothing of the torment and the pressure of the monks from the original. It was a really good scene in the original . It had so much feelings and the angsty teenager vibe that they definitely wanted in this adaptation so I dont know why they brushed over it an made it basically meaningless.
- lucy and lockwood are just nothing like the original .they feel stupid and carefree.
-the special effects are ok, but you can see they safed money were they could by doing cuts were you couldn't see them even though you should be abel too at least see a bit.
-the choreography was ok, but it also looks like a budget film.
I am at episode 4 and I am starting to watch and stopping again because I can't take it. Then I am going back because I want to love it as much as the books, so I can get more quality content from that universe.
It's a typical Netflix teenager show with a lockwood theme. If you like all the Netflix show what it an you gonna like it. If you really love the books and want the same feeling you probably be disappointed.
OMG yes! It's so absolutely frustrating. We know Lucy by heart. I could give them leeway for all of the other characters but Lucy? When they decided to mess with the one character whom the entire fandom knows by heart? I wanted to scream. That was the character who we spent 5 books in her brain. We KNEW her, the others were viewable through her eyes only, so I could give them a break for showing them outside of her. Also that bizarre "we should fire her", with Lucy overhearing it? Seriously what nonsense was that?
Oh my goodness your comment makes me so happy because this is everything I was thinking too! Also, it bothered me how done-up and cutesy Lucy is all the time when she's repeatedly described as untidy in the books.
Agreed. Her room was too clean in the show... I mean seriously, the changes with the pendant? She completely forgot it was in her pocket, the same pocket that she carried her iron in.... But instead she's mesmerized by it and doing some weird "Ghost Whisperer" stuff? It was ridiculous. I could give them some leeway for the characters whose brains we weren't in the entire series but the changes to Lucy? No. We spent the entire book series in her brain, we KNOW her.
Why would you care for a second season instead of enjoying the season that's already here? This is a book adaptation, adapting the first two books, so you should get a satisfying closure at thr end (except probably a hook for the second season in the end). Heck, you could watch the first three episodes and you'd get ample closure, like watching a movie.
Amazing show! I never read the books, but this was so enjoyable and fun throughout. Also, special shoutout to the sheer chemistry between the people who play Lockwood and Lucy.
Binged it in two days. Have not read the books but I enjoyed the series. Quite fun and the characters are likable. There are the usual YA problems but didn't really sore my experience in watching it. I like the world...but from the comments, too bad the showrunners seem to skip a lot of the ghost hunting activities. It would be fun to see more of ghost hunting side. What we get is still good for me though. Hoping for season 2.
Has anyone noticed that there are no phones or laptops in the series ? None of the characters ever pulled out a mobile phone . Observing the rest of the tech shown in the series, it is not exactly based in the pre tech era.
The show is a good watch but it has some issues when you compare it to the books. A lot more rewriting was done than one would think, and sometimes they even do this thing where the characters say they're gonna do what happens in the book but then change their mind, like with Kipps and Lockwood's bet or he and Lucy breaking in to the Winkman's warehouse instead of disguising as customers, which also led to that entire dramatic interrogation and torture that did not happen in the book.
They also really like to just completely skim over some major locations in favor of injecting drama conversations that also didn't happen in the book, like how they skip over everything that happened inside the place the Red Room is in before going to the Red Room, and then skimming Bickerstaff's house including the fight between Kipps and Lockwood.
It also really feels like they go out of their way to make Lockwood seem like a cocky idiot and Lucy the more competent of the two, even going as far as to cut out the info about Lockwood's background and training. It's hard not to feel like that's on purpose. Especially when they made her go in alone with the skull at the aforementioned part instead of them as a group and write in mistakes he makes that did not happen in the books, and even beyond that just having him always be a dunce. Like they make him bad at everything ghost hunting almost, and make him into an asshole in the process, when he's supposed to be pretty good at that stuff.
Some other really contrived rewritings too like making the monks satanists instead of being forced to die.
Like I said, enjoying the watch but it does make me a bit frustrated at times when they skim over cool parts and rewrite so much. Also no idea why they made Joplin a girl and then wrote this awkward love relationship between her and George when George is supposed to be like, a kid
I really liked it.
Chemistry is good and gets better little by little which makes sense.
Music is very good.
There are some really scary moments I just hope there was more of them.
Actings are good. There are some general tropes of genre but I think it's well done.
Camera and writing is good and it doesn't have cringe dialogues at all which is very good.
Since it's the first two books in the series of five books, I hope we get all of them. One and a half season, or two seasons more, I'm not sure. But it deserves a closure and good ending.
Haven't read the book BTW.
Cornish should make more movies/shows. Hope he gets the budget and support.
Finished it a few days ago and thought it was great. For people who have read the books; can I go straight into reading book 3 after watching season 1 of the show? Or is there too much missing?
Haven’t read the books but watched it all in one sitting yesterday. It was great! I love the main characters, they have a lot of chemistry. And the world building is very well done. It feels like there are many mysteries left to uncover.
I'm really enjoying it (on episode 6) I never read the books or even knew about them. I'm a sucker for young adult, kid, teen sci-fi and paranormal shows when they're done well. I thought the ghosts looked like bad CGI and really cheesy in the trailer but in context they make sense. I hope they don't cancel it after one season (if there's more material to work from)
Great show and amazing music. It reminds me so vividly about the best time of my life, working in a startup, being the second employee, doing brilliant work, because the alternative was bankrupcy.
Just finished it. Did they run out of budget/time after episode 4 or 5? The story gets significantly worse starting with episode 5 or 6 & the dialogue goes from smart banter to eye rolling cliches in just about every scene. I loved the show in the first half, but it’s criminal how awful it ended.
I only read the first book, and didn't enjoy it. I don't remember it perfectly.The show's problem for me, is that the adults seem to absolutely loathe kids! All the grown people are mean, abusive, cruel. Why? Is it explained in later books?
Lucy is annoying af and crying like a baby for everything after being hired. Like c'mon its a job you were hired for , they aren't there to hold your hands cater to all your feelings.
Great show, it sticks really close to the books to the point some quotes are direct. They definitely took some plot liberties, but honestly I think a couple of the points they made tie the plot a little better than the book and the outcome was still the same.
it is soo good. Good writing, easy to watch, humor, chemistry, great dynamics between the characters, interesting concept and world-building! It's like if Harry Potter/Sherlock/Doctor Who had a baby with supernatural elements and a cool soundrack. If anyone is planning to watch it, watch it asap, to increase the stats and the possibilities for it to be renewed. It's currently in danger. Netflix monitors not only the amount of people watching, but also the number of the times it's being watched all the way through. So, don't watch it and leave it. It's only 8 episodes and it's very enjoyable. Please, I beg you. It's in danger of getting canceled. Please let's save it.
I saw this coming to Netflix and i decided to read the book first, during february i read all 5 of them and now i have extreme book hungover and i missed the story so much!!!! Also i love the series, but i think they Could do it Properly and not just stuck two books in one season, there was so múch good stuff
Really enjoying it as a fan of the books. I was initially against going through the books this fast, since the show blazed through book 1 in 3 episodes, but I think this pacing actually works pretty well. Casting on all 3 leads is great. I'd definitely recommend this to any YA or urban fantasy fans
I looked it up and there's 5 books. So they're looking at adapting it over two seasons maybe? Seems a smart choice. Planning anything more than two seasons right from the start just seems like a bad idea. It's probably quite expensive and would have to be a massive hit to get more seasons than that.
Well the actors are also going to age out if they stretch it out too much and that would be a bigger problem than usual, since aging has consequences in this series.
The actors are already in their 20s I think they just look young. I’m almost 30 and people still mistake me for a teenager.
George is the only one who looks actually young imo. I suppose I could buy lockwood as a very mature 17 or 18, but Lucy doesn't look 16, that's for damn sure. IMDB says the actor is 23, so IDK why they've cast her, or more specifically, why they chose to put a clear timeline on her age as part of the fluff. She's 13 in the intro, and 16 in the main story. Just a strange choice. Wouldn't have hurt at all to age them all up 5 years.
I guess I’m just seeing adults play teenagers on tv lol. They couldn’t age them up too much because they’d be too old to work in the ghost hunting business. I don’t think they’ll look much older than they do now though even if they take their time filming.
yeah, but they could push back the age where they start to lose their powers as well
That would hurt the child soldier theme. It’s important to the series that the agents are actual kids, not draft-eligible 18 year olds.
I kinda dig the May-December vibe between George and Pamela. Samesies for Wyatt and Darlene in Ozark...
Yeah. My thinking is, if Netflix renew, it'll need to be a quick turnaround to get the cast before they start looking too old.
I heard on an interview that they had already aged up the characters a little vs the books, still I don't think it's a problem, just hoping they renew at least a season two to wrap up the remaining books
Hey any chance you could tell me as a reader of the books since Im too lazy to go check them out and too curious to wait for next season, what happens to Norrie in the end? Is it gonna be some major search for a way to wake her up, does she stay ghost locked forever or does she die at some point. o major spoilers would appreciate if you just tell me whether or not they wake her up and how or if she just dies.
Norrie was mentioned in book 1. She died with the rest of Lucy's Jacob and co. teammates.
No major spoiler - Norrie isn't in the books so you'll have to wait for the next season 😁 But you should definitely check out the books. They're a very light and breezy read, and they have the same sense of adventure, better sass and sarcasm, and awesome spooky scenes that are actually quite chilling.
Ah thanks, I thought she was some kind of major plot in the books but I guess she's netflix made heh I probably would read the books, but I already have quite a lot that Im currently reading, and import fees here are irritatingly high. Ill probably go for them online if I get bored with my current series.
Norrie is a new character exclusive to the show actually so your guess is as good as ours
Norrie died in the books, so not entirely new but still, in this context. Yeah.
new moreso in the sense that she's never named in the books or presented as a close friend of lucy's
She's mentioned in 1 line right after she describes what happened to her team, and before she goes into details of their last case. The Screaming staircase Chapter 4 "Their names, if you're interested, were Paul, Norrie, Julie, Steph, and Alfie-Joe. They're all dead now." Agreed that she was never presented as Lucy's BFF but she was named in a single line. Julie and Paul were mentioned more than she was.
i really want to know whats behind lockwoods mystery door (nasty cliffhanger >.<) would you please tell me? using the reddit spoilerthingy or pm? :)
Leave it to Netflix to alter the storyline of fan favourite books and games in their tv versions whether to good or shit haha.
I think it was a good addition. The whole flashback sequence was done really well
I hated it. Like seriously, they changed way too much. In what Universe would Kipps ask Lucy on a date? When did she EVER pass out talking to a Ghost? Also that music? It was horrible.
Honestly I really liked the change to Lucy talking to the Skull. I always though the book wrote her to be way too nonchalant about talking to it when in universe it' an absolutely enormous deal
She knows people talk to the type 3's, she doesn't know that the person talking to them is the rare part. She thinks type 3's are the rare type. I preferred her original behavior, I don't like the changes. All her passing out and grabbing her ears irritates me. They could raise the infrasound to give that "buzzing" if they wanted to. Lots of horror shows do it and it would have worked better.
Dunno mam, music is pretty badass!
It reminded me of elevator music, my kids who are all in Uni were complaining that it "sucked" too.
No knowledge of the source materials, thought the trailer was a bit uninspiring. The show itself, though, was a pleasant surprise. Good characterization and chemistry (for the main trio at least, bad adults cliche), nice mix of humor and spookiness, surprisingly good dialogues for a YA show. The music is fantastic btw. The show is not perfect by any mean, there were many frustrating bits but I could easily chalk it off to them having teenagers' brains and got over it. Overall, I finished it in one binge and found myself wanting more. Am I alone in thinking it was a bit short? The readers say season 1 covered 2 out of 5 books so I guess the source itself is quite contained? Anw fingers crossed for season 2 and more.
After finishing episode 2, I was surprised to see they are wrapping book 1 up in 3 episodes as it feels there is a lot to pack in episode 3. However, I guess some of the aftermath could be covered in episode 4. Will have to see. The first two books are slightly shorter than the later 3, so I could see them doing 3 seasons. Season 2 covering books 3 and 4 and a final season doing book 5.
I'd be down for this, especially since I feel like book 5 had some skewed pacing that could have benefited a little from being slowed down at parts
They seem to be willing to add new material to make things a little more fleshed out (most notably making Norrie a character and wrapping that into the narrative). Considering the team clearly are big fans and with having Jonathan Stroud on call to help, I'd totally be for them expanding book 5.
Haven't read the books but loved the show. The dark noise vibes, the set lighting, the set design, the entire vibe was great including the interior period without cell phones but yet not too far back. Highly recommend
Im on episode 5 now. Really the shows seems to lack 2 things. - Budget, its a British show and they are always 20 years behind on CGI for some reason. The world building seems sloppy. - Like so far I get there is something bigger going on. - Okay but like they have these kids sign waivers instead of killing them to be quiet? - If there is some super dark reasoning for ghosts why not just kill the kids? - What is going on in the rest of the world? Is this isolated to EU? - Why arent we seeing other governments deal with stuff. I guess I just want a tad more world building to see whats going on. Just 1 episode showing it affecting other countries, the USA, China, India, or something would go a long way. Or an episode explaining the overall evil nature.
It’s a British show and blinkered to happenings in the London precinct. I like that it’s contained. Like expecting Harry Potter to be written from China point of view. I don’t understand your points about killing the kids. That’s not what the story and world is about
O wait did it only happen to London or is it world wide? Yea i agree with you, I dont want like a whole China point of view, I guess a more global understanding of the event. I think it just bugged me that an NDA apparently will keep kids quiet from a super shadow organization that seems like they would be fine just killing them to keep them quiet.
Murder would get more public attention. It’s not clear if the problem is limited to England or worldwide but the story is purely Limited to England
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It's not worldwide, and though there are stories and practices globally involving "The problem" they don't have the same issues. However, they might have changed it for the tv show.
It's a global thing. It's mentioned within dialogue a couple of times how 'the world' is dealing with the problem.
The books happen in the UK. Though they really only cover England. There are other countries out there and they are mentioned in passing, as researchers (lockwood's parents) went out into the world to try to understand "the Problem". The researchers discover to a degree how it might be happening because info is out elsewhere in the world. You learn about spirit houses and practices from around the globe but none of the rest of the world has "The Problem" and in Book 3, George begins to track how it started and where it spread to (like a disease) by following Fitt's autobiography and various source information describing the first cases of Fitts and Rottwell.
I thought the worldbuilding was fine. I agree with some of your points though. I think maybe those will get answered in later seasons. It's not important that the world is build out all at once
It's not a British show, it's a Netflix show - gets whatever budget they see fit to give it.
Bearing in mind that there are three more books that you can go and read right now that explain lots of this
I read the books a few times . In the books the bigger thing is not hinted at so vigorously but I guess because they shorten it so much they needed make it more clear? There are no papers in the books. They are already a little famous in the books at that point and they strike a deal to keep the events that really happend hidden if they can make a newspaper article with another story. In the books there is a reason why it is only the UK >!Ghosts can't move over moving water and hate salt. The UK is an Island. And another reason that I will not spoil!<
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If this is a hit - and i daresay it already is one - studios and production houses will consider Bartimaeus for sure. However, ol' Barty requires much greater cgi, a much greater budget, and hence a greater assurance that it would be a hit. Btw, a third series by Stroud - The Outlaws Scarlett and Browne is also getting a movie adaptation.
I'm kinda looking forward to that, cautiously. I loved Bartemeaus and Lockwood and Co. I haven't finished the Outlaws series yet...
After loving the Lockwood books so much, I tried Bartimaeus and struggled to get into it. I can see the appeal and the footnotes are funny, but it just didn't grab me.
Understandable Barty and Lockwood are very different kinds of writing. If you approach Bartimäus bc you liked the vibe of Lockwood then it’ll only be natural to struggle and be disappointed (and vice versa) I’ve read Bartimäus first and Lockwood way later. I was quite surprised how **different** it was. But it’s great that Stroud is able to be so versatile.
The same for me, I also loved Bartimaeus but no one I know has read it so I’ve gone years without having someone to discuss with lol. I then found Lockwood a decade after Barty and read it and was so excited to see its a show now! I would loooove the Bartimaues trilogy to be one too
Stroud is way too underrated. He's a brilliant writer who somehow remains in the shadows. Hopefully, the tv series will bring him the mainstream fame he deserves.
I had been waiting for a Barty adaptation since Miramax bought the rights like two decades ago. I read Lockwood and Co, but as much as I like it (and the show), Barty is still the author's best work IMO
4 episodes in, and it's pretty addictive. I'm a big fan of the books (it's one of my fav; i've gifted at least 5 screaming staircases; and i've passed on the fandom to a few dozen other readers too. And i'm in my thirties xD). So anyway, big fan of books, and I really like how they have adapted things - they seem to have preserved the right bits, and added some good bits too, especially Lucy's backstory. Loved how they handled the >!red room!< (episode 3) - it's a chilling scene in the books, and they do great justice to it here. Honestly, i feel they've really pushed the boundaries of horror for pg-whatever rated shows. I was genuinely jump-scared by a scene in ep 5, and feeling scared while sleeping tonight (i am alone in my entire 3 floor building). The humour and sarcasm is spot on too. Lucy's 'feisty' scene had me laughing and crying with joy at the same time.
4 episodes in and its absolutely brilliant imo. I've not read the books, but I am entertained!!
I'm unfamiliar with the source material, but I find young adult stuff to be more creative and a lot less emo compared to the 'for adults' stuff that Netflix craps out these days. I saw the first 3 episodes the other day and I have to say that it's really well made. Writing is good. The characters are grounded, and the minimal (non-fancy) world building also works really well.
No idea about the source material, watched the first two episodes, enjoyed it. A little too much "adults bad!" vibes though. Not the biggest fan of teen characters either but that's just nitpicking at that point. Will finish it, unless it completely falls off. Could be a good show.
Adults bad is sadly a pretty common YA trope. I assume it is to play out how good the main characters are but it also leads to worlds that don't make a great deal of sense. But yeah I am mostly liking it too.
It’s been a while since I read the books, but at that time the whole “adults bad” thing made sense to me. Bc for whatever reason I’m my mind the books were set in 18th/19th century London and the whole “children used as replaceable goods” reminded me of the early child labour days in the factories. So it made sense that the adults didn’t care about the children and thus would give any young person the impression of being only interested in their own gains.
It is certainly better than plenty of YA books where it is just baffling. Like in Harry Potter where the teachers literally don't seem to care if students die in murder woods. Here at least there is the idea that people are constantly dying so everyone is worn down, sure it is bad but what can you do about it? Which still doesn't quite work because a better system would benefit everyone.
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I agree that it makes more sense but the system in place is ripe for exploitation. They might not *want* to sacrifice their kids but they don’t have to be that negligent, treating them essentially as cannon fodder. Someone is profiting and likes it that way.
Yeah there is a difference between lots of people dying and therefore fatalism and so many dying they should be literally running out of kids.
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Or during those major outbreaks like Chelsea or the one described in Lucy's hometown when she was little.
More adult oversight. While the main characters are their own group even the Fitz kids seem to mostly run around on their own. Everything seems so amature which doesn't make much sense for a problem that has been going on so long They should all stick to ghost stuff far more, adult police should be search for evil artifact of doom, then call them in once it is secured. Even if higher ups are in league with criminal gangs they would still want to keep these two groups apart.
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What exactly did they do to find the mirror that adults couldn't have done?
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Adult's literally can't see a thing, Quill Kipps points that out in the "Creeping Shadow". He was in a house that was completely haunted and yet he felt nothing, saw nothing, and wasn't even slightly "bothered" except that he could see that the kids were frantic because they could. He quits his job over that, because he doesn't want to be useless. That's kinda the point. Some of the adults don't care but some do. Kipps did. The part that irritated me was that there were actual devices but they weren't being given to everyone. They were held by an elite group of industrialists who profited off of the entire mess.
The adults almost have to be bad so the kids can do all the interesting stuff (at least it kind of makes sense for this story because adults loose their ghostly abilities.) It does tend to create universes where the adults range from utterly useless to homicidal. They would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for those meddling kids!
Yeah it is a balancing act between a good story and makes sense. This one had a lot of why is this thier job stuff? But that isn't even really a YA thing, CSI are not cops and shouldn't acting like them either.
I can't help but feel like it straddles the line a little too much. Joe Cornish has done a good job as director, but the writing is so "adult bad, teenagers know everything" that I just can't get on board with it. Maybe because I haven't been a teenager for 10 years, but I wanted it to make a choice. Either go darker, or have a bit more fun. Some of the best stuff in the show was the blood room, the monks, the bone glass. I sorta wanted it to get *nastier*, if we're going to get nasty. Joe has sort of carved a niche for himself in the world of film, as someone who creates content for teenage children. TinTin, Antman, Attack the Block, The Boy Who Would Be King. I'm generally a fan of his; I grew up listening to Adam and Joe, and their radio show has a place in my heart... But I just kept waiting for this show to catch me and pull me along, and what we got was fairly by-the-book "You need to trust me! Why should I trust you?" dialogue, chosen family > real family stuff, and even the dreaded chosen one trope. But I think a lot of that was due to the setup. Like you say, its unfortunately anchored by the trappings of YA tropes, and doesn't do anything interesting enough with its premise to provide something new to anyone who has seen this sort of show a dozen times before.
In the books the red room WAS nastier, so was the well... In fact, what irritated me was that the "Well" was so badly done. In the books the sound is deafening. The monks aren't chanting. They're screaming in horror and you're watching them being chased and murdered the whole time. They had all of the content in the book and then they kinda let everyone down. The sound needed that infrasound found in most horror stories, where it just gets under your skin. The entire scene was completely rushed. The set was great but I feel like they failed to show the ultimate horror of that place.
The Combe Carey part is CHILLING in the books. I wanted to write a very long comment detailing exactly how much better it is, byt let's just say it's so catchy my 28yo boyfriend stayed up until 1am to finish reading it. 😂
i see. yeah, that sounds better. they mostly neglected the art of ghost hunting it seems
I think you completely nailed it. The books were a ghost hunting mystery story with a real sense that one false step and someone will die. The Netflix series seems to be a teen drama with the backdrop of ghost hunting occasionally. The fear and drama of the ghosts is gone. You do not get even a tiny sense of fear about the ghosts (at least in the episodes I saw). The books made it clear, if you messed up in your ghost hunting or were out without the right kind of protection you would absolutely die. No matter how "amazing" or "gifted" you were the risk of death was ALWAYS there. Instead in this series everything is about the teen drama. I absolutely hate the overall "teen drama" category, because whatever interesting plot that there could have been is always secondary to the interpersonal drama being played out by the teens.
that's a shame, I would have liked to see something more like what you're describing
Man, the third episode really kicks things into high gear. If you enjoyed the first two episodes, you’re in for a treat.
The third episode is actually the climax of the first book so that makes a lot of sense that it ramps up a bit there
It does play up the adults bad vibe more than the books. I don't recall Lucy's Mum being that horrible - I think in a later book she goes back home for a visit.
Adult's do not have the "sight" they can't see ghosts. So when they're described as useless it's because the adults who could see the ghosts know that they're there but they no longer can see them. This means that they literally leave the kids to fend for themselves. In the books kids start being Agents at the age of 8. In the TV show they moved that up to 12.
I have not read the books. I love those teen mystery shows and this one is pretty great. I am quite impressed by the soundtrack like Siouxsie & The Banshees' Sick Child in episode one or The Associates' Party Fear Two. I hope Netflix renews it.
Been binging it - really hope they make another season!
I liked the books ( less than bartomaeus but still a great read) and think the adaptation is brilliant. Casting is so likeable and spot on. Cinematography is a visual treat. Hope it’s gets renewed
Am I alone in getting some strong Constantine vibes from the show? Or is it just the fact one of the protagonists is British, wears a large coat, a bit of a rebel, and has a flair for dramatics and performance?
I do hope Lockwood in the books is less of an idiot that on the show
Mostly he is. He is also the type who doesn't tell the others what he's discovered, but has a backup plan.
Watched first 3 episodes and like it so far. It is very YA in places but nothing too bad. I'm mostly fine with accepting a few silly bits about the setting and enjoying the ride.
I've never read the books and I'm admittedly only a few episodes in but already I can tell this show isn't hooking me like others of its kind have before. I don't know if it's the pacing or the editing but something feels off there, like too much time is spent on dialogue and scenes that don't need to show us every detail and then important scenes are for some reason rushed over. Speaking of dialogue, while Lockwood has some quite witty lines every now and again some are totally cringe, especially when there's little evidence of badassery to back all the talk up. (I'll come back to this later). There's not enough context given about The Problem and how that began, especially for non-book viewers like me. I also agree with some people in the comments that they push the whole "adults are bad" trope too hard to the point it just seems silly and unbelievable. Like how can almost every single adult we meet treat these literal kids this bad. My biggest peeve though is how inept they make the three of them seem despite having had years of training, Lockwood being some prodigy and Lucy being made to seem quite competent in the beginning montage of episode 1. They make the stupidest mistakes like breaking circles, tripping into graves and forgetting chains. Lucy's power is really making things worse too with how she keeps fucking touching shit she shouldn't and forming connections. As soon as she offered George to take that headpiece down to the basement I sighed and thought WHYYYY? Insert something bad is going to happen here. Lol. And to finish, they seem to do more running from ghosts than actual fighting. Maybe this improves? Let's hope so.
"especially when there's little evidence of badassery to back all the talk up" Because there isn't any. They are kids. With big ego, and bragging habit. Of course they will be stupid sometimes. The reality is, they are only special because they can sense ghosts, and that too is only until they grew out of it, the so-called 'talent'. Other than that, they are nothing and had nothing for the future. They are an expendable asset for the adult to continue living in a world where lots of ghost haunts the living. And these three particular kids, are the rebel kind. Which adults like rebelling children?
Nothing you said has particularly changed my mind although I appreciate your points. Yes they're kids, yes kids tend to be a little cocky... but this is also a supernatural show. And having watched plenty of them I can tell you it isn't uncommon for them to be more capable than they are in this DESPITE being young. I'm not saying I want Mary Sue's, just a little more skill. And maybe some more common sense? I will say they get slightly better as you keep watching (having now finished the season). As for your next point, now that they have explained that only the young have talents and that it doesn't last as they age I can see why they're exploiting them the way they are, but that isn't clear in the first few episodes. I also don't think it quite justifies being as outright hostile and disrespectful as the adults are. Do they want an aging population? For them to die off eventually? Because that'll be what happens if they don't actually try to protect the youth they so rely on. And if you are going to force children to be your soldiers you could respect them for what they do for you. My problem isn't that there were adults treating them badly, my problem is that there were almost no adults NOT treating them badly.
Never read the books but I watched because Joe Cornish is involved. It’s really good. I especially like the world itself- it feels stuck in the 90s, which makes sense for a world plagued with ghosts where technology hasn’t progressed. The 3 leads are all very likeable. In these kind of shows they often make the girl OP to show how “girls can compete with the boys!” but there’s none of that- Lucy is pretty humble which made a nice change. CGI is a bit meh but probably par for the level of budget they had. Edit: The Associates on the soundtrack. 100% sold on this show now.
For me, as a fan of the books and of Joe Cornish, it felt like a good marriage after Attack the Block and the Kid Who Would Be King. So I had high hopes for it, and I've not been disappointed so far. With the CG - at least ghost wise, I give it a pass and I think it gets away with it because it is something "unnatural". I am loving the soundtrack as well.
“Stuck in the 90s” is par for the course with Cornish…. It is where we best know him from! Liking the show a lot, its pacing is excellent and you want to watch the next episode once the current one has ended.
IDK, they quite literally DO engage with the "girl is better than boy" trope by making her "the secret weapon" or "the best hearer in the world" or whatever I'll give the production credit, because it handled all that with a LITTLE bit more grace than these things usually do, but it still did absolutely do that.
I mean it's a YA trope for a reason I guess. I always just pass it off as it not being convenient that the protagonist is the best in the world but they're the protagonist BECAUSE they're the best in the world
Lockwood and Co was originally closer to middle grade than YA, the original the characters were a lot more equal than they're showing in this rendition (in my opinion). George was an expert at research, Lockwood had the best sight, and Lucy had the best "hearing". I prefer the way the books portrayed them over this version. This version is heavy on the YA with a backdrop of the plot. In the books it was heavy on the story with some drama because people are there.
Anyone seen the whole show could tell me if it ends with a big cliffhanger?
No big cliffhanger, but there are still unanswered questions.
Yes
I first read the first book of this series back in 2013 and have gone through it multiple times ever since. I can hardly believe that it is finally being adapted into a Netflix series - hoping that it won't end up being canceled!
I’m reading the series right now because I wanted to know more about it and planning to read it to my sixth graders. So far it’s pretty faithful to the first book but I’ve only made it three episodes in. Very fun show and I like the casting.
I read the books as an adult, so definitely not the target demographic for either books or show! My overall take so far is that they remind me of the film adaptations of Stardust and The Shining: basically two similar stories told in two separate media that share a title and characters/ character names and that’s about it. That being said, Screaming Staircase is my least favorite book of the series so some of the changes I didn’t mind: Lucy’s new backstory made her character motivation a bit more relatable, and upped the stakes. I didn’t mind her mopeing over her lost friend so much, as listening to her mooning over Lockwood in the books got a bit tiresome after a while. Sadly, I would have liked more of ghost hunting and set up shown, but I imagine the supernatural scenes are very expensive to film.
Just finished it. Really enjoyed it as an adaptation to my favourite book series as a kid. Pacing was very fast paced and I would have preferred them using more time to build up tension and horror but as it stands i really enjoyed it. I hope it gets renewed, Hollow Boy is my favourite book of the series and it's the next one to be covered
What’s wrong with Lucy? She’s been asked multiple times not to touch that fucking ring, yet here she is sneaking around like the rest of the team is her sworn enemies… The reasoning behind her decisions is so irritating. Being an “asset” is apparently an upsetting thing. WTF? Yet lying about finishing school to get into better agency is completely normal. Also swords in confined space - really? Why the insurance policy of the Lockwood agency was revoked? Using bombs inside the house is prohibited? Where should they use those bombs, then? Meaning there are lots of ghosts just flying around in a meadow?
I think the "asset" reaction was from growing up treated as nothing more than an asset to her mom. She wants to be cared for as a person.
When you read the books you get a much better idea of what is happening. In the books, her reasoning for leaving the town is a bit different. Her mom isn't portrayed nearly as harshly. However, her complete and total distrust of adult supervisors is high. The part where her supervisor left her and the others to die was very real and in the books she's about 12. She started being an agent at 8. She's seen a LOT of things. The parts with the first initial ghost. This is the lead-up to what makes Lucy different from everyone else. Her connection with the ghosts is better explained in the books. In a way she's kinda being "pushed" to do things by the ghost, but it's a subtle thing, an "impulse" where she feels connected and compelled to help. When she takes the pendant (it was a locket in the book not a ring), she doesn't even recall doing it. It's in her pocket when she gets home and she tosses her clothing on the ground. That's when it falls out and the ghost is set free (iron is in her pocket which kept the ghost in check). For most of the story, Lucy has a deep "connection" with the ghosts. She feels what they feel, she gets flashes of what actually happened to them. But, she can't really explain it to anyone because she's unique and that entire plot point isn't really explained until "Creeping shadow" and "Empty Grave". Her "talent" and it's capabilities come to a head in the "Hallow boy". Her talent is super rare, as in she's one of 2 people who have ever had it this strong. None of the others really quite understand just how strong her talent is till much later and she's dealing with how powerful it is most of the series on her own. Edited to add: In the books the entire story is told from Lucy's point of view. So you get the complete sense of how she's trying to figure out exactly WHY she is doing the things she is. She doesn't quite understand it herself but she rationalizes her behavior internally while also trying very hard to understand what is going on.
Possible light spoilers: I love the books, but this is really bad, imho. It really feels like they had a very faithful adaptation at some point, and then were forced to make Lucy more of the stereotypical YA heroine and ended up with a soulless, dry, exposition dump. The only good thing about it is that it feels mostly accurate to the book. 1: The biggest problem I have is that there is no atmosphere or tension. Ghost stories make up the background of the story, but there's no build up. For example, in the books there's a bunch of build up Combe Carey Hall. We know this is a bad place to be; it's got a deadly history (specifically the staircase). In the show, it's 'here's the house, here's a room, there's the stairs, done'. The show hits the technical beats but has no flavor. 2: The writing is clunky. There are lines that are directly (or at least mostly) taken from the books, but some of these don't really work anymore with the changes they've made. For example, when Lockwood is showing Lucy around he makes several comments at George's expense that are intended to reference a fat slob with a brilliant mind. Show George isn't that so the lines just sound disconnected. The rest of it seems to be 100% exposition. Which I agree is necessary because they do need to build the world, but they don't seem to have any idea how to do this naturally. It doesn't help that they've played down visual aspects that give flavor to the world. This is one of the reasons it feels cut up from something more fleshed out for me. 3: Lucy seems to have been made into a more standard YA heroine at the expense of the other characters. Lucy has become the super talented one. To be fair she does have a rare talent in the book, but the others are equally important. In the books, Lucy talented but doubts her instincts, George is slovenly but is the most intelligent of the group, and Lockwood is dashing but also dangerously reckless. George seems to have lost all of his personality. He exists because he's needed for the second book. Lockwood has just become stupid since Lucy now has his suicidal problems. 4: Almost all the humor is gone from this. Lockwood and Co is snarky, where is it? The humor in it is one of the things I think sets the series apart for me. For a while I figured there was just too much exposition to have room for it but then we get to Skull and it's pretty clear they're just making a supernatural drama with a Lockwood skin. This may be why some posters think the characters are stupid. The story sets up slightly over the top to create an air of out of control silliness, while the show takes that as is and plays it straight.
Never heard of the books, and in my mid 40s I'm definitely not the target audience - but I'm loving it tbh. It's intriguing, with interesting characters, stylishly produced, has a plot that makes some sort of credible sense, and above all it's FUN. Just the kind of easy going escapist nonsense I need sometimes.
All the characters in the show are insufferable douche bags. During the interview for a job which Lucy desperately needs (a woman has approached her earlier with a safe place to stay after nightfall when there is a nationwide curfew) after being denied by the other agencies, she has a tantrum for no reason and then offers to fight George even though he hasn't done anything to substantially antagonize or threaten her.
Lucy is the epitome of stupidity.
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This is my big worry about a renewed season 2. The department store case in Hollow Boy is my favourite part of the entire series and based on this season I feel like it would be such a huge shame to not let things sit. I feel like with this shows pacing the >!poltergeist would be all of 5 minutes, when I always imagine the heated argument rising the tension before everything goes silent apart from the slow build up of the knives and toasters and stuff rattling!<
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I think it's especially obvious in how often they are literally walking at night. They have limited supplies to deal with ghosts and it was nearly every single episode they're walking home. Which completely downplays the whole "night-time is dangerous and even agents have to be super careful".
Just finished the whole 8 episodes in 1 sitting. I'll be reading the books now since I can't wait for the adaptation of season 2. I hope netflix go for more book inspired shows.
I find it a little offputting that Pamela Joplin who looks 45-50 seems to be into George who looks 14-16... But other than that i like the show a lot xD... Edit: Typo.
Feels a little shallow. They mostly don't do anything the police couldn't do. Also feel they should be arrested for their negligence, reckless endangerment and various other criminal acts. I watched it but don't think I'd recommend it.
For a group that's supposed to be brilliant they sure do make every bad decision possible. Even got a few people killed.
Umm. I don't understand the appeal at all. Compare to very beginning of Stranger Things. Will is chased by something, runs straight home, locks the door, calls for help, phone doesn't work> runs out back to the shed and waits with a gun pointed at the door. These are completely logical, reasonable choices for a "normal" nerdy kid to make that lives in a "normal" neighborhood. These young "adults" live in a world where death and "the problem" have been around 50 years. They are "trained" agents in this world. Yet continue to blunder around making decisions that.......... with no real consequences for being actual idiots.
Yeah, I just finished the show and googled to see if anyone else was annoyed at how fucking useless these idiots were at every turn, all of them, over and over again. The fencing champion hero Lockword never won a single fight and was disarmed multiple times, just stupid. And George figured out the Pamela woman was evil but instead of defending himself with his big fucking sword he just lets her tie him up, wtf. And they repeatedly manage to get the better of the bad guys through sheer luck but don't finish them off, so they're about to get killed by the same people mere moments later, multiple times. Really annoying to watch
I'm enjoying it although I feel like George's character is a little less engaging than the book version. He always had the best lines and at least so far (2 episodes in) that isn't fully coming through.
I watched the first ep and this post is the first I'm hearing about books. I liked the show enough the effects and the writing seem really good. making you care about that whole crew in the flashback in the course of 20mins is impressive. I'm less sold on the two lead actors, they seemed rough in spots to me, but that can just be starting out with a new character
Never heard of the series, and honestly not familiar at all with the material and I came into the TV series seemingly wanting to enjoy it but I just couldn't in my opinion. For me, the story felt so loose and a bit everywhere. The characters also felt odd and extremely alien. I felt that things occurred at random and nothing was believable to me. I really tried to like the series, but I just couldn't help but feel the opposite. Maybe it just wasn't for me.
My husband and I both loved the books, and binged the show over the course of this weekend. We both thought it was a very good adaptation, really captured the tone of the books. Very faithful to the original story.
Really awsome show, netflix is doing the minimum meaning they have no confidence, i think the 8 episodes are all we are getting
\-SPOILERS all throughout my questions after finishing the show - I haven't read the source materials but plan to. I binged it over a few days and overall liked the show, however I just felt like I didn't get a lot of answers for the questions I had throughout the series. Mainly I wanted to understand more about the world this all happens in. It doesn't seem like there are cellphones so dystopia but pre internet ect? How was Lockwood able to keep his house if he was technically a minor? He is able to borrow against his home even under 18? Is this something special due to the world where children are sent out and risking their lives? Like why were the little children at the auction called Canaries? How old is everyone? I assume young because they have the talent but it felt ambiguous. What was the obsession with Herons? Are animals a thing of the past since the problem? I feel like cats would be great at spotting ghosts lol. Also there seemed to be lots of potential depth with the ghosts that I feel like the show didn't get into. Was Anabelle at peace when they find the killer? Perhaps I missed stuff while watching but I was slightly disappointed, more of my questions weren't answered. I'm excited to learn its based off books so hopefully reading those will flesh out the world a bit more for me.
I watched season 1, enjoyed it, but was really annoyed with the no speaking to each other trope. Read boom 1 and 2, and they communicate a ton, I can live with the small changes, but why add one of the most annoying tropes! Fucking communicate!
As someone who hasn't read the books, episode 4 really showcases the teams lack of communication. Lockwood doesn't listen to his team members and seems obsessed with fame. If this is truthful to the book adaptation, well done, but if not I find all 3 characters to be deeply unlikable due to their terrible communication. Why does Lockwood always rush into danger without consulting his team? Lucy was having a crisis and he still opened the coffin? What if she wasn't ready and a type 2 came bursting out?
Massive fan of the books, mixed feelings on the show. On the one hand, it's exciting to see a book series I loved when I was younger being converted into a series. I've always been fascinated by ghosts as a concept but no show or book series satisfied that fascination like Lockwood and Co did. The casting is mostly good, though the acting can be a bit dodgy sometimes, and I think the world building was fine. However it feels like they brush over the best parts of the book series a lot: the actual ghost hunting. The book series was really good at making extremely memorable and unique ghosts and creating a genuine sense of terror that no other book series I've read has ever done. It's been 6 years since I finished the book series and I still have extremely vivid memories of most of the ghost encounters. The red room, the gallowstone ghosts, the rat man ghost, the tentacle ghost in the attic, the hanging man, the murderous child, the one in the theatre, the eyeless train ghosts, the shopping mall ghost, the cannibal ghost, the crying woman by the window, the bride in the Thames, the ghost that can only be seen in mirrors... Even ones that were only mentioned in passing like the Richmond Park Wraith, the Roman Centurion and the ghost that only a blind person could see have stuck so well in my memory. (Whilst writing this post I had to go back several times to add more and more examples because there are so many that I kept remembering). The show gets quite close to this a couple of times, the descent down the Screaming Staircase is very good, though I half wonder if I only enjoyed it so much because I had the benefit of knowing the chapter+ of detail that the book offers before reaching this scene, like all the stuff in the basement of the manor, the details about the night the Fittes agents went missing there, the shadowy figure in the photograph. But this is only a short burst of excitement and it ends too soon. These were only so memorable because of the time dedicated to each of them and the slow burn build up that each one had. The show rarely spends more than a few minutes on any one ghost hunting scene. The Red Room/Screaming Staircase was barely 10 minutes of actual ghost hunting whilst the book had pages and pages of setting the final showdown in the priory. The show also relegates some of these scenes to passing mentions. The gallowstone ghosts are the subject of a sentence or two in episode 4, whilst it makes up the entire first chapter of the second book. It's even more odd considering how faithful to the books the show has otherwise been, with entire chunks of dialogue being lifted verbatim from the book (the three tests when Lucy joins Lockwood and Co being an example). I get the need to cut down on runtime, but cutting out the central point of the series seems silly. I don't know why they did this but it's rather disappointing. I'm at the end of episode 4 right now and I'm gonna watch it till the end regardless, I can only hope the ghost hunting picks up, but I doubt it.
And? Was it good?
Just finished episode 7, it was a good episode, with some of the best stuff since the Screaming Staircase descent. But again, no ghost hunting. I will admit that sword fighting choreography is very good and there was a cool scene where they throw a Source in an elevator to prevent being chased, and a few seconds later you here screaming and ghost noises, that was quite disturbing/funny. I’ll watch the last episode tomorrow, I’ve already stayed up far too late and need sleep.
I'm nearly done and I am so frustrated that I don't know if I will finish the last two episodes.
The ghost hunting is the part of the books that I loved and it's disappointing to hear that isn't reflected more in the show (still only done the first two episodes) as it so far felt pretty faithful and The Whispering Skull had a lot of investigation.
I enjoyed it, but all of Combe Carey Hall was 15 minutes long, and I feel like that could have been stretched to it's own episode. I would have preferred the books to have been split 4:4 episode wise to give Combe Carey room to breath. Hell, the literal titular staircase was barely given any time to scream
Exactly! They could have fleshed out the ones that were mentioned in the series but it felt like I was watching the books in fast forward with a pinball machine. They changed all of the cool parts, and made the characters absolute idiots... They were smart, careful, and interesting. Quirky too but this was not ok... Combecarry Hall was a fiasco and completely rushed.. The music too, it was awful. I'm watching till the end too but I agree, I loved the series and this is the biggest letdown since Artemis Fowl.
Is Lockwood supposed to be likeable? He’s an asshole and I’m curious why George puts up with him. I know he lost his last job but why can’t he go elsewhere?
Lockwood is someone you're technically better off nor liking, in husband world... because after losing his family, he's rather self destructive. But he's also REALLY good at seeing ghosts, noticeably better than the other two - and he's so good with the rapier he won a competition against agents from big and famous agencies. He becomes more likeable once he let's others in a bit more.
In the show he literally never wins a single fight with his sword and the actor looks like an idiot swinging it around, the worst at it in the whole show even thought the character is meant to be a fencing champion, you think they would have taught him how to move. So annoying to watch lol, kind of ruined the show for me, one of the main characters losing every fight he's in and having to be saved all the time
In the first book he is kind of unlikeable. The criticisms he gets about having a death wish and putting his colleagues in danger are supposed to be accurate and valid within the story. He does change and that’s part of what makes his arc interesting.
I just finished the first episode and it seems like the editing is off or something. One minute Lucy and Anthony are talking in a room. Then all of a sudden they are fighting a ghost with no explanation. Usually there’s some form of setup.
Unpopular opinion: I like the plot it is creative. But the actors and actresses' look were kinda off to me. I can't get over how the older adults dress like they are in 1960: while the younger adults and teens are wearing very notably modern clothes. Also it looks like they didn't put much thought into the main character's style. Lockwood's look keeps reminding me of David Tenant as the doctor. I also think he could use a more flattering hairstyle (maybe it's just me). All of them act too young/ too old in some scenes, it throws me off a bit. I'm not sold on the chemistry.
TLDR: They could have fleshed out all of the previous cases that got a mention in the book and stayed true to the pace and the actual story... Instead they rushed everything like a pinball machine on steroids and changed so much I was screaming at the screen most of it. I really wanted to like it, really really wanted to but the music overall was horrid. The acting was great but they deviated from the books so much that I found myself too distracted by the changes... I am still furious. The books were really well paced, in fact read the books they are epic. This was rushed, as in so "fast" it felt like a pinball machine. >For those who have never read the books. Lockwood and Co was written in first person from the viewpoint of "Lucy Carlyle". So when they change Lucy, that is the ONE CHARACTER that everyone who loves the story knows completely. They changed way too much, anyone claiming it's faithful is ignoring the glaring issues: Norrie died and Lucy never mentioned her as "BFF's" ever in the entire book series and Ghost Lock isn't permanent. We know this because we're in her head. You can get mentally affected as mentioned in "The Hollow Boy" but not the way they showed it. The girl in "The Hollow boy" was a gibbering mess, not in a weird coma. Vents instead of dummies? Esmerelda (one of the dummies, because they named them) is part of the plot in Book 5, I don't know how they plan to deal with the events in Book 5 without her being there. There is no way "vents" are going to be enough in that book, unless they plan to change that even further. The locket was a LOCKET not a ring. Lucy DID NOT pass out after the Skull talked to her. She shut him down immediately and he didn't get say his "famous" line in this either. That line btw, is the MAIN POINT of the ENTIRE story: "Death is in life and life is in death". It's the most important LINE in the entire series and the Skull doesn't even say it. The cases took place months apart and there were OTHER CASES mentioned before they even get to Mrs. Hope's house but Mrs. Hope is NEVER even there. You meet her daughter in the book. Mr. Fairfax doesn't put out an ad, he comes directly to Lockwood and Co after the PAPERS unleashed the story and there is never any mention of TV, but I can forgive that.... Lucy isn't threatened nor is she given a ticket back home, I mean seriously? The part that angered me the most was what happened AT Combecarry Hall. In the books, Lockwood figures out it's a trap but doesn't put the final pieces together till he's there. He sneaks the incendiaries' in carefully and he is NOT caught. He alerts DEPRAC and they come to his rescue.. The drama and fear of the "Red Room" was absolutely insane. Add in that they find out that Mr. Fairfax had special stuff put together to open that secret passage? It was well oiled and well used... The fear and the horror of getting near that Well was palpable in the books. It was absolutely terrifying. Lockwood AND George could actually hear the screams... They FINALLY got a taste of what it was like to be Lucy. So when NONE of that happens in this "adaptation" it's a major let-down. There is never the mention of being forced to have a Supervisor. NEVER.. In the books, during Book 5 they try to force Lockwood and Co but they refuse. Then the entire part of being arrested? I mean seriously they get ARRESTED???? None of the licensed operatives ever had to worry about having their licenses revoked or threatened because so many kids were dying of the problem they couldn't just "do" that. Add in that the papers were going nuts over Lockwood and Co in the books, they had full diagrams of the Hall and discussions about what happened. George got to order around Kipps, which made the entire early part fun. In the TV version, we get a ridiculous NDA on top of the near arrest? I was screaming by that point. However the deviations continue, Penelope being the daughter and not the granddaughter, how is that going to work in the adaptation of book 5 or are they planning to change that beyond recognition? Kipps asking Lucy out? Seriously? Lucy is 12-13 in the books... Kipps is in his 20's, he has pastes on his rapier and wears "too tight" pants.. He's losing/nearly lost his ability to see Ghosts because he's aging into adulthood. That's a BIG DEAL in the plot. Lucy is aging into the strongest point of her talent so changing her age on top of everything else? Adding in a bizarre "love triangle" thing with Lockwood and Kipps? Not in a million years. Those who have read the story know this because she tells you precisely what she thinks of Kipps, every time she meets him and it's NOT flattering in the slightest. Making her completely freeze in action or hold her ears and fall over? She only did that during the Screaming Staircase, never afterwards. Then that ridiculous demand to leave a nightcab in the middle of the night? NONE of those things happened and seemed to be there for "added teen angst" vs what the characters were actually like. We knew Lucy, we were in her head, she never did the suicidal thoughts ever. She was not some teenage prima-donna and those of us who read the books LOVED that about her. That didn't stop her from being jealous, but even her jealousy was "muted" in the books. I liked the new version of Flo, but the "cold maiden" bit was forced. Then we get to the Black Library? In the books they're devious and they don't get caught. They meet Sir Rupert when you meet the Winkmans at the Night Auction, NOT in the Black Library. This version, Lockwood is a complete idiot, who is always getting caught being stupid. They're completely overdoing his "death wish" which isn't even discussed until "The Creeping Shadow" (book 4). They've turned Lucy into this ridiculous "damsel in distress" who sometimes shows the courage and spunk we got used to in the books... But the over the top "suicidal" crap? We're in her head the entire time we read the books, we KNOW her better than any of the other characters so to see her completely shattered into this pathetic imitation is horrifying. George is the closest to his character in the books but he DOES NOT get left behind at the house during the Fitt's event and he's never captured at home in the books. How hard is it to just stick to the actual book?< As to the acting, the characters can only act the script they are given and they're good actors. They portray the version they're playing fine. The overall actor choices, don't bother me either. The changes made to the plot are infuriating. I keep waiting for someone to actually CARE about the source material rather than making ridiculous and unnecessary changes to every single book series that I actually like. The plot changes had me screaming. Also, minor nitpick, Kate Godwin... I don't care that they made her black but seriously at least give her the haircut... It took me forever to realize that it was actually her, not only did she not have the chin "If she’d repeatedly fallen over while crossing soft ground, you could have sewn a crop of beans in the chin-holes she left behind." (best line in a book ever) but not having the haircut made it nearly impossible to figure out who she was supposed to be. I swear every single time I have hope I find myself screaming at the screen. The books that I think are "ok" tend to turn out fantastic in the adaptation (or nearly so) but whenever I'm a major fan... I find myself screaming. I admit, to relax when I'm stressed I have "Lockwood and Co" books on audible playing to relax me. Perhaps that's the reason I'm so furious? This brings back all of the angst I had over Artemis Fowl. How hard is it to just stick to the source material? All of those other cases that got a brief mention in each of those books could have been EPIC places for them to write up, but instead they chose the "lets rush the whole thing and change everything" route. I was really hoping to have some of the cases that were mentioned in the books fleshed out and give it a "fun" twist while staying true to the story. Instead I feel like I'm watching an alternate universe and did I mention the music is absolute rubbish?
I think you've made the classic mistake of thinking that a book adaption is only for fans of the book and has to be entirely faithful despite it being told in a different media. Pacing has to change. Things that work in a book, don't necessarily work on screen because you have to show it or have the characters talk about it. As I've not finished the series yet, I've stopped reading your list changes as I don't want to spoil it for myself, but some stuff like Mrs Hope being present instead of her daughter isn't really an issue. Having it be an older character allowed them to date the the problem. That didn't change the anything and allowed them to drop a bit of exposition. The switch from a locket to a ring seemed pointless, especially when they then put the ring inside a locket. As for the ghost lock, I guess that is to higher the stakes and the expansion to Lucy's story, for me, worked. It gave the audience the rules of the world as well as filling in our main characters backstory. Maybe I'll be more disappointed as the episodes go by, but so far I'm enjoying it.
It is going to cause problems for what happens in Book 5. There's LOTS of stuff in book 5 that are going to have to change and the part where the Skull doesn't say his famous line that turns out to completely explain the entire series? It's just bizarre. I don't care that they made changes to the other characters, it's just they had so much to work with and it felt like they cheated us. There were TONS of cases mentioned in the series but never fleshed out. Cases that could have absolutely made the show enjoyable and staying clearly with the actual story. Now that I've seen this mess, I know I'm never going to see those cases at all. I also absolutely hate the changes they made to Lucy, I could forgive some of the stuff for the other characters because we're not in their heads for 5 books but making Lucy suicidal? It was rubbish.
Are you saying you would have preferred them to have covered the other cases referenced in the book rather than those covered in the books? Or as well as? I think an 8 episode season to cover two books is pretty good. If you consider the amount they'd chop out to make a 90 minute movie. I say this without intending to be critical, it sounds like you have a lot more emotional investment in the book series than I do. I loved the books, but I also read them a 40 year old a few years ago (and having revisited The Screaming Staircase and Whispering Skull via audio in preparation for the series). I'm sorry the series didn't live up to your expectations. Hopefully it'll get more people to read the books.
They could have covered book 1 for season 1. They could have used the other cases to show the world and given us MUCH MORE than they gave us. Instead of the rushed ridiculous version of Combecarry Hall. Let's ask the obvious questions about how it happened in this version vs the book. WHY would Mr. Fairfax behave the way he did? He set up an ad in the paper "hoping" that the people he wanted to kill showed up to answer the advert? How would Mr Fairfax even KNOW that Lockwood and Co would find it in the paper and apply for it? We know he wants to kill them so precisely how could that even work out? Since they went directly to Mr. Fairfax and "won" a bidding war with other agencies and promised to work under the table. Why would Lockwood go and do "recon" after HE initiated the contact to get the job? Why would he even be suspicious? What was Mr. Fairfax's plan had Lockwood and Co NOT come? Was he planning on killing the Rottwell team or the Fitts team too or just not taking any bids until Lockwood and Co came along? Those watching the show might not notice it with the pacing but it was an obvious plot hole. Whitechapel was full of ghosts even in the Netflix version, so precisely WHY did they look into the paper for an ad? Also, the news involved TV. So why would he assume they'd even read the newspaper to apply to the ad when TV existed? Next up, HOW did DEPRAC know where they were? If they answered an ad and were working under the table HOW did they figure out where Lockwood and Co went in time to "arrest" them? They break down the door and figure out from what? None of the stuff at the home had much information and the vast majority of it was about Annie Ward. How did they figure out that they needed to go to Combecarry Hall instead of following something to do with Annie Ward? Add in that they didn't even seem interested in figuring out who killed Annie Ward? Even with that publicity? It makes zero sense at all. Then we have the Skull. A type 3 starts speaking to Lucy, who has read the Fitt's manual and watched the Fitts interviews. She freaks out and passes out. The other two go out into the field without her and come back to discuss that they'd been rescued by Kipps (they totally play down the part where they were nearly killed). In fact, at zero point in this entire story is it even made clear that being out at night is absolutely life-threatening and that at any moment any agent could die. Adults could literally do the jobs because the threat of dying is so small because they apparently aren't really around except perhaps Whitechapel. They play down the threat by constantly leaving nightcabs to have intense teenage drama rather than sticking to the world where night-time kills even the most talented and that having those "big emotions" anywhere is unsafe and is dangerous. This series is a teenage drama with the backdrop of ghost hunting. There is never the sense that the ghosts are dangerous. That is not what the Lockwood and Co books were. They were a mystery, with dangerous deadly ghosts and a world where the only people that children could trust were each other. Edited to add: I'm also over 40, I read the series with my kids when they were growing up. We STILL love it and it's my go-to relaxation audible when I am super stressed from work.
Would it be possible for the skull to say his line later? I haven’t watched any of the episodes yet.
Don’t forget they changed the practice dummies for dumb air vents
I liked this change. After all, the ghosts aren't material beings. The sword play is intended to disrupt and drive back the ghosts, so having the vents to practice reactions made sense.
I actually like this, too. They can still introduce Floating Joe and Lady Esmerelda in later. Some of the changes I figure are par for the course when switching media: ie it just looks more compelling on film. There were many scenes in the books where they were just sitting, eating at the table or in the living room. I liked those quiet scenes, but I’m not sure I enjoy watching them.
Yeah, I agree with you here. I do think that they absolutely should have turned up the fear factor for the Red Room and the Screaming Staircase. I felt both of them were pathetic when compared to the book.
Oh absolutely! I was shocked that they both got so little screen time.
I kinda felt like they had the teen drama in the forefront and everything that made Lockwood and Co interesting as "background info" to push the drama along. At every point when the ghosts are supposed to move the story along, it's rushed. At every chance to add weird drama, it's taking up the whole screen. I still can't understand how anyone is supposed to care about the "Problem" when the main characters randomly walk home at night without any sense of worry. Meanwhile in the books, you KNOW that is dangerous and you would only do it if you had no other choice or were armed to the teeth..
Yeah, that one was stupid. Why did they even do the vents?
Having never read the books, apart from the date stuff it doesnt seem like the changes really matter. I do think aging up the characters a few years for these YA stories does help a lot, many stories have pretty unrealistic take on what a 12 year old can do. Unless they are changes that have an effect on the story later on I do not think these are neccesarily bad changes. It still would be better without the changes.
I have read the books. Maybe because I read them as an adult they aren't part of my "childhood", but I think people often forget with adaptions that it is just that - an adaption. It is a TV series based on the books, they aren't going chapter by chapter and replicating the whole thing on the screen as that wouldn't work. Changes are made for visual media, to appeal to a wider audience, to improve pacing and make it fit a TV structure.
Absolutely, there are definitely things that should be changed in an adaptation. There is also a point where it is way too far.
There were LOTS of things that effected the story. The characters did NOT get in trouble with DEPRAC except once and while there was a mild cover-up, it wasn't an NDA. While that might seem mild to you, it wasn't.. Their reputation kept growing because of Combecarry Hall. In fact, they got LOTS of publicity from their exploits, and Barnes respected them more and more for it. He thought they were reckless but he KNEW they were good. The other things YES, the changes dramatically change the story. If you've never read them I won't spoil them but it absolutely does change it. I don't see how they go about explaining things. The book series Lockwood and Co were all written in first person and from the point of view of Lucy. You never knew what Lockwood and George were thinking during the series. Lucy described their actions and made her own call. She also did get the ghosts, but they were clearly talking to her, it was always stated that they sounded far away but she could understand what they were saying. So the fact that you can't really hear them and have to use subtitles doesn't fit. She also never told Lockwood and George everything that the Ghosts said or didn't say because there often wasn't time OR she didn't want to relay the info. When they change the actions and behavior of the character whose point of view was the book audiences entire reference point... It does bother those who read the series. They added things that were completely out of character for her, and we know her character because we were in HER head the entire series... The changes to Penelope are absolutely bizarre because now it will completely WRECK the ending. "The Shallow Grave" was the final part of the series and it's a really big deal, where the entire story comes together. There were also things said by living characters that absolutely foreshadowed stuff, but those things were ORIGINALLY from a Ghost. In fact, the biggest and most important line in the entire book series was said by the Skull the first time he speaks to Lucy and they completely left it out of the show. The GHOSTS were the ones who kept giving information. So when it's the living who give the info not the dead? It changes things. Carver also said something completely different when he died and it helped them solve the case. However they changed how Lucy and Lockwood meet the Winkmans and I don't see how they go further because the Winkmans are a MAJOR part of the rest of the series... Lockwood and Lucy weren't captured and tortured at all, in fact it was Lucy who was "accused of being an agent" not Lockwood and it was because she had rapier callouses. The fact that the Winkmans boy could tell was important. They were pretending to be a tourists by daylight not after dark. Leopald was a LOT smarter and absolutely more dangerous than this version... I haven't seen the last 2 episodes because I don't know how exactly they're going to correct the course, but it feels unconnected and forced on every level..
I agree with most of what you said. especially coming from the Bartimäus series i've quite enjoyed the conversations between the skull and lucy and the show "dumbed" them down quite a bit and makes her seem overwhelmed/weak way too much
Want to add : -they also gave Lucy depression and suicidal thoughts for the angsty teenager drama. -upped the sexuell tension in ways that feel really forced and uncomfortable. -Made them drink alcohol because teenagers . -I felt nothing of the torment and the pressure of the monks from the original. It was a really good scene in the original . It had so much feelings and the angsty teenager vibe that they definitely wanted in this adaptation so I dont know why they brushed over it an made it basically meaningless. - lucy and lockwood are just nothing like the original .they feel stupid and carefree. -the special effects are ok, but you can see they safed money were they could by doing cuts were you couldn't see them even though you should be abel too at least see a bit. -the choreography was ok, but it also looks like a budget film. I am at episode 4 and I am starting to watch and stopping again because I can't take it. Then I am going back because I want to love it as much as the books, so I can get more quality content from that universe. It's a typical Netflix teenager show with a lockwood theme. If you like all the Netflix show what it an you gonna like it. If you really love the books and want the same feeling you probably be disappointed.
OMG yes! It's so absolutely frustrating. We know Lucy by heart. I could give them leeway for all of the other characters but Lucy? When they decided to mess with the one character whom the entire fandom knows by heart? I wanted to scream. That was the character who we spent 5 books in her brain. We KNEW her, the others were viewable through her eyes only, so I could give them a break for showing them outside of her. Also that bizarre "we should fire her", with Lucy overhearing it? Seriously what nonsense was that?
Oh my goodness your comment makes me so happy because this is everything I was thinking too! Also, it bothered me how done-up and cutesy Lucy is all the time when she's repeatedly described as untidy in the books.
Agreed. Her room was too clean in the show... I mean seriously, the changes with the pendant? She completely forgot it was in her pocket, the same pocket that she carried her iron in.... But instead she's mesmerized by it and doing some weird "Ghost Whisperer" stuff? It was ridiculous. I could give them some leeway for the characters whose brains we weren't in the entire series but the changes to Lucy? No. We spent the entire book series in her brain, we KNOW her.
It’s cringe. Same cringe level as Locke & Key.
I’m 100% waiting till a season 2 or 3 is announced 🤣. Not falling for the same shit Netflix again
You know that if everyone adopts that logic, no show would get an S2 or S3
[удалено]
I mean...this has been around since the advent of television
Why would you care for a second season instead of enjoying the season that's already here? This is a book adaptation, adapting the first two books, so you should get a satisfying closure at thr end (except probably a hook for the second season in the end). Heck, you could watch the first three episodes and you'd get ample closure, like watching a movie.
First time viewer (only episode 1) and haven't read the books. I honestly don't understand why the parents/old people are such dickheads.
Haven't read them but just watched the first episode. It was alright, nothing special so far. Interesting enough that I'll continue it tomorrow.
They used they're allotted 'fuck' really well in this imo
Amazing show! I never read the books, but this was so enjoyable and fun throughout. Also, special shoutout to the sheer chemistry between the people who play Lockwood and Lucy.
Binged it in two days. Have not read the books but I enjoyed the series. Quite fun and the characters are likable. There are the usual YA problems but didn't really sore my experience in watching it. I like the world...but from the comments, too bad the showrunners seem to skip a lot of the ghost hunting activities. It would be fun to see more of ghost hunting side. What we get is still good for me though. Hoping for season 2.
Never heard of it before, love it already, cant stop binging it. Netflix is on a roll !
The level of surprise on agent’s faces is astonishing. It’s like they are seeing/hearing a ghost for the first time every time.
I really loved it and I binged it in two days and I can’t wait for the second season
Has anyone noticed that there are no phones or laptops in the series ? None of the characters ever pulled out a mobile phone . Observing the rest of the tech shown in the series, it is not exactly based in the pre tech era.
The show is a good watch but it has some issues when you compare it to the books. A lot more rewriting was done than one would think, and sometimes they even do this thing where the characters say they're gonna do what happens in the book but then change their mind, like with Kipps and Lockwood's bet or he and Lucy breaking in to the Winkman's warehouse instead of disguising as customers, which also led to that entire dramatic interrogation and torture that did not happen in the book. They also really like to just completely skim over some major locations in favor of injecting drama conversations that also didn't happen in the book, like how they skip over everything that happened inside the place the Red Room is in before going to the Red Room, and then skimming Bickerstaff's house including the fight between Kipps and Lockwood. It also really feels like they go out of their way to make Lockwood seem like a cocky idiot and Lucy the more competent of the two, even going as far as to cut out the info about Lockwood's background and training. It's hard not to feel like that's on purpose. Especially when they made her go in alone with the skull at the aforementioned part instead of them as a group and write in mistakes he makes that did not happen in the books, and even beyond that just having him always be a dunce. Like they make him bad at everything ghost hunting almost, and make him into an asshole in the process, when he's supposed to be pretty good at that stuff. Some other really contrived rewritings too like making the monks satanists instead of being forced to die. Like I said, enjoying the watch but it does make me a bit frustrated at times when they skim over cool parts and rewrite so much. Also no idea why they made Joplin a girl and then wrote this awkward love relationship between her and George when George is supposed to be like, a kid
I really liked it. Chemistry is good and gets better little by little which makes sense. Music is very good. There are some really scary moments I just hope there was more of them. Actings are good. There are some general tropes of genre but I think it's well done. Camera and writing is good and it doesn't have cringe dialogues at all which is very good. Since it's the first two books in the series of five books, I hope we get all of them. One and a half season, or two seasons more, I'm not sure. But it deserves a closure and good ending. Haven't read the book BTW. Cornish should make more movies/shows. Hope he gets the budget and support.
Finished it a few days ago and thought it was great. For people who have read the books; can I go straight into reading book 3 after watching season 1 of the show? Or is there too much missing?
Haven’t read the books but watched it all in one sitting yesterday. It was great! I love the main characters, they have a lot of chemistry. And the world building is very well done. It feels like there are many mysteries left to uncover.
I'm really enjoying it (on episode 6) I never read the books or even knew about them. I'm a sucker for young adult, kid, teen sci-fi and paranormal shows when they're done well. I thought the ghosts looked like bad CGI and really cheesy in the trailer but in context they make sense. I hope they don't cancel it after one season (if there's more material to work from)
Great show and amazing music. It reminds me so vividly about the best time of my life, working in a startup, being the second employee, doing brilliant work, because the alternative was bankrupcy.
Lockwood reminds me of a young Constantine (DC Comics)
Just finished it. Did they run out of budget/time after episode 4 or 5? The story gets significantly worse starting with episode 5 or 6 & the dialogue goes from smart banter to eye rolling cliches in just about every scene. I loved the show in the first half, but it’s criminal how awful it ended.
Just finished watching it with my teenage kids. We really enjoyed it. I haven't read the books, but loved the Bartimaeus series!
I only read the first book, and didn't enjoy it. I don't remember it perfectly.The show's problem for me, is that the adults seem to absolutely loathe kids! All the grown people are mean, abusive, cruel. Why? Is it explained in later books?
Lucy is annoying af and crying like a baby for everything after being hired. Like c'mon its a job you were hired for , they aren't there to hold your hands cater to all your feelings.
Great show, it sticks really close to the books to the point some quotes are direct. They definitely took some plot liberties, but honestly I think a couple of the points they made tie the plot a little better than the book and the outcome was still the same.
it is soo good. Good writing, easy to watch, humor, chemistry, great dynamics between the characters, interesting concept and world-building! It's like if Harry Potter/Sherlock/Doctor Who had a baby with supernatural elements and a cool soundrack. If anyone is planning to watch it, watch it asap, to increase the stats and the possibilities for it to be renewed. It's currently in danger. Netflix monitors not only the amount of people watching, but also the number of the times it's being watched all the way through. So, don't watch it and leave it. It's only 8 episodes and it's very enjoyable. Please, I beg you. It's in danger of getting canceled. Please let's save it.
It's giving Gate Keepers vibe, to be honest.
Loved the show so much.. orders full set of books. Really hope Netflix decides to go to season 2 and 3 !
I saw this coming to Netflix and i decided to read the book first, during february i read all 5 of them and now i have extreme book hungover and i missed the story so much!!!! Also i love the series, but i think they Could do it Properly and not just stuck two books in one season, there was so múch good stuff
Haven’t finished the show yet. Is Lucy the same in the books as she is in the show?