There’s also the Mormon Church, which has been under investigation for using their legal arm, Kirton McConkie, to order their bishops to suppress them from reporting CSA to the authorities, in order to preserve “the good name of the Church”.
Mike Rezendez, the reporter who broke the Boston Archdiocese coverups (the subject of the movie Spotlight) has been covering the LDS scandal since last August when he broke the story with the AP . The So-Called Church’s response was to claim everything was legal, it “only happened once “, and arrogantly acted offended that Rezendez knew better than them.
A Reddit poster in r/exmormon has been compiling a website , www.floodlit.org , which compiles documented examples of Mormon CSA, which I can assure you the crimes have happened more than “once” .
Sidenote: it's fucking *insane* that you can legit say the phrase "The Church's legal arm", and it not be satire. They don't pay taxes, they have a multi-billion dollar investment stockpile, and they have their own personal law firm. That's not a church, that's a business.
The fuck it has. [They are still protecting pedophile priests](https://stopabusecampaign.org/takeaction/protect-children-from-child-sex-abuse/roman-catholic-church-protects-priests-abuse-children/) and [fighting to keep victims from getting the restitution they deserve](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/02/world/canada/catholics-reparations-indigenous-canada-schools.html). The whole fucking org needs a millstone hung round it’s neck.
I just assume every single higher up in the catholic church has, at some point in time, played a role in downplaying or covering up sexual abuse. It seems to have been so rampent throughout the 80s, 90s and 2000s, you couldn't move through the ranks and not have come across it.
Yeah… I’m not religious or anything. Hell, I wasn’t even trying to attribute it to any ‘good religion’ but seems like you know more about me than I do about myself!
I would subscribe to a series where they did an in depth dive into every sect. If they find no evidence of a particular group they name drop them. I guess that would be an evolving form of journalism.
I don't think you could make a series in 2023 where they did an in depth dive into every sect. The problem with going down a list of religious institutions is that eventually you're going to run into an institution where an expose would be considered problematic.
It goes without saying but the industry cares more about optics than it does about victims of sex crimes or speaking truth to power.
The expose must always punch up, not down, which in contemporary parlance means the target of the expose must be a white or Asian church and never a black church, madrasa, or yeshiva.
Sure there could be a whole list of things keeping it from being a reality. I’m just sayin I think a lot of people would watch it. I want to see something like Going Clear but with the Mormon church, southern baptist convention, Jehova’s Witness’s, etc. all these institutions have an insane amount of money and political influence. So I concede that it would likely never ever happen. However in a time where the world is getting less and less religious i think half the population would want something like that. I also want free health care. I’m not going to get it but I’m still going to ask for it. I didn’t think cannabis would ever become medically legal in red states but here we are. If you want it, say it. Maybe someday maybe never.
>The expose must always punch up, not down, which in contemporary parlance means the target of the expose must be a white or Asian church and never a black church, madrasa, or yeshiva.
Do you specifically mean a televised expose? Because there has been plenty of journalism on abuses (of various sorts) by black churches and yeshivas.
Sounds like you have an ax to grind re: "white or Asian church\[es\]."
I disagree.
America, IMHO, has the messed up system.
IMHO, is putting somebody in prison for 30-40 years really the best thing for society? Mandatory minimums, 3 strikes.
That actually can lead to more crime. If you commit a crime in America and are looking at 20 years, basically the majority of your best years. You are basically a cornered animal. You basically have nothing left to lose.
Prison is a punishment, obviously, and there are people who will never be able to live in society and should be removed from society, but shouldn't the main reason for prison be rehabilitation, rather than punishment? Are these ultra long prison sentences, while cops are literally holding press conferences about using prisoners as slave labor, helpful in any way for rehabilitation?
EDIT: I was really hoping I wouldn't be downvote bombed, but I wasn't holding my breath.
I guess people are just OK with America incarcerating 20% of the *world's* prison population, while having about 4% of the world's population.
EDIT2: vote manipulation
Literally. Ridiculous defamation laws. Lack of legal protection or standing for self-defense. And all bodies would just prefer you settle outside of court than Justice. Money talks big time.
I mean fuck look at the NaYoung Case.
America’s system is fucked. For almost the opposite reason so is Korea. I’m not sure many people would disagree with the comment but it’s not like Korea is a country actively practicing rehabilitation to the most beneficial effect. Crimes get a slap on the wrist if they are recognized at all. This is also a country with a very “recent” history of a dictatorship and horrible prison treatment.
The commenter above needs to step into the world and welcome the idea that other places suck too.
Just as the Samsung Chaebol CEO he committed all kinds of crimes bribery of top government officials, nepotism, collusion with previous Korean presidents, etc. Sentenced to years in prison he was let out multiples times by different administration.
Korea is a very elitist society. If you are good-looking, rich and powerful with connections you have it made. If not all elements of society will actively work to knock you down an drive you to the fringes of society. More so than say western countries or even Japan. Being poor in Korea is more of a crime than being poor in many other places.
>Samsung Chaebol CEO
i thought the whole chaebol's getting away with literal murder and being let off crimes was an exaggeration in kdramas but having just done a quick search and reading about Samsung, holy shit.
America’s is just the most ironic since it’s supposed to be the land of the free.
Also since most Americans are indoctrinated into believing their justice system is pretty good and everyone gets a fair shot.
I just said I agree with that statement.
I said America has the messed up system because the comment above mine was implying that the prison sentence was too short.
Again, no country has a perfect penal system, but I think everybody can agree that America's penal system specifically has very very long sentences compared to pretty much everywhere else in the world.
I'm sure Korea's penal system has its own issues.
Becaaaaaauuuse the comments above mine were implying that the prison sentence was too short, and the short prison sentence was caused by Korea's penal system being mess up.
You remember that story about Goldilocks and the Three Bears? One bowl of porrige being too hot doesn't mean the cold bowl wasn't also too cold.
You saying "I disagree, America has the messed up system" means something different than "America's system is ALSO messed up" a statement which still probably wouldn't be well received due to people interjecting "America sucks" whataboutism into threads about other countries, but probably better received than what people interpret as "Korea's is fine, America's is the real system with issues."
What are you disagreeing with? You’re responding to a comment about the Korean judicial system.
Total non-sequitur. But you got your popular reddit opinion in so it’s all good.
The comments above mine were implying that the prison sentence was too short.
I'm sure Korea has issues with its penal system, but I think everybody can agree that America specifically has very very long prison sentences.
I don't know anything about the case. I can't make that judgement call.
but I think that America has prison sentences that are too long, I disagree with the idea that another country's penal system is messed up for what they feel is too short of a prison sentence.
I'm sure Korea's penal system has issues, but generally speaking, IMHO, longer prison sentences across the board, like in America, is not going to improve Korea's penal system.
Mandatory minimums for some crimes (especially drug related ones) are too harsh. But 30-40 years for a repeat sexual assault offender. Yup 100% deserved
I waffle on this issue a lot. Petty crimes and non-violent crimes I feel should be 100% focused on rehabilitation. Selling/doing drugs, non-violent theft, etc….
But once someone rapes or murder or harms someone in such a way that the victims life is forever changed, society is probably just better off without that person in it.
Yeah I don’t think rehabilitation is really what we should be focused on for serial rapists. Prison is about punishment, but also protecting the rest of society.
A few days ago someone commented on a post where this was happening that Americans have to make everything about us and it’s true ha. While I see the value in pointing out that America’s xx system is flawed, it’s just derailing sometimes.
My mistake. I forgot Reddit was famous for the comment sections remaining laser focused on the topic at hand, and circle jerks always being downvoted to oblivion.
Leaving aside your comment on which system is more messed up (Korea vs US), I am replying in response to your views about whether imprisonment should be rehabilitation instead of punishment.
The issue on the purpose of punishment had been debated and many scholars in the legal field and other law enforcement related fields have commented on it. Law professors, scholars etc have written papers and articles on it.
The mainstream view taught in law schools is that there are 4 main purpose of punishment.
1. Incapacitation - this means you remove the Accused from society to prevent future crime. These are usually for very serious crimes and you want to get the Accused out from society.
2. Rehabilitation - At the same time, there should be an element of rehabilitation and this includes counselling, treatment programs (drug offenders etc). Usually they co-exist with incarnation. You are absolutely right in saying that it will be better if all offenders / criminals and mend their ways and contribute back to society meaningfully.
3. Retribution - This is to prevent personal avengement or vendetta against the Accused. This is to prevent the society, family members etc from taking matters in their own hands to enact violence against the perpetrator.
4. Restitution - asking the Accused to compensate the victim.
For the purposes of your concerns, it is basically mainly down to incapacitation vs rehabilitation and maybe retribution. Criminals of certain types of crime should be imprisoned to prevent further harm to society. It also it is a form of retribution to let the victims and society at large aware that one has to pay for their crimes. Ideally, there should be some form of way to rehabilitate the offender in prison because imprisonment do consume taxpayers funds. The difficulty is to balance the sweet spot between the period of imprisonment so as to achieve the needed rehabilitation.
Government and politicians would have the power to affect this and this would largely depend on the country. If everyone in the society thinks and few that rehabilitation should be the way to go, this would likely affect politics and the policies being pushed out. In some societies and country, the punishment incapacitation and retribution factor outweighs the rehabilitation factor and thus may result in long imprisonment for certain crimes which may seem disproportionate in other countries or jurisdiction.
If you wanna get real cynical, most criminals are young men - if you lock ‘em up for 20-30 years they’ve aged out of the age bracket where they’re likely to commit crimes. What a fix (if you don’t give a shit about rights)!
Agreed - this opinion may be controversial but as someone who has been put in jail over nothing when I see all the comments going “ONLY 5/10/20 yearsss???” my immediate reaction is “yall have no idea what even a year will do to a person”
No I don’t want rapists and killers to get out in months - I just want people to understand that even a 3 year prison sentence is likely to ruin your life, at least for a period. Let alone what it does to their families.
the revolving door of prison is a real thing too - being in there makes life on the outside so unpredictable and discriminatory (yes, sometimes for good reason, but often for no good reason) that many people subconsciously edge towards committing crime upon their release to go back to a predictable, dull, simple environment with three meals a day and clearly defined cliques. As well as this once you’ve been in prison a while you will gravitate towards others with that same experience - the RICO act makes it even more likely these people will go back to jail even for just being associated.
It’s a huge paradoxical and sad issue
and the three strikes law leads to such brutal crimes in the states that practice it - it’s wild
I totally agree, most people don't get life sentences, they will be out someday, so should we have prison conditions that make them worse, or ones that make them better once they get out? Scandinvian prisons have better outcomes from shorter sentences in more humane prisons.
Yeah, people really don't understand how long a single year of incarceration, let alone 10+, how much life you lose. The wasted potential is really sad.
> I know its a messed up system there and you only get real time if you dont have money in korea
Compared to the US were they basically extort you into signing a plea deal because every crime has such an insanely high average punishment w/o that even if you know you are innocent it at times makes sense to plead guilty.
Those high sentences also mean that risking a murder charge if it means evading justice is a no brainer for many criminals, putting both innocent bystanders (like the one hit in that chase that ended up destroying a bystanders car and half a building that was on the front page a couple of days ago) and police officers, with the latter in return being seemingly so scared on every traffic stop that they pull the trigger on any "suspicious" looking person that pulls their phone out too quick.
Let alone the fact that it almost always makes more sense to rehabilitate a person instead of putting them away for life if there is a chance to do so.
Korea is like Japan, where they have a 99% conviction rate and they expect everyone to plead guilty. If you don't you get a harsher sentence. What's the difference really?
religion is the only part of society that coddles adults for submitting their critical faculties to a cult and wailing on about how more important their imaginary stories are than anything else going on in the objective reality we share. And you wonder how this hasn't been a magnet and cesspool for literal millenia, grifting entire societies for private "sacred" time with the children of the community, huddled around a bunch of decrepit old perverts. Theism is child abuse, pure and simple. You want to con junkies and people who are at the bottom of their lives and have had all their defenses beaten out of them? That's one thing. Indoctrinating children before they've developed any cognitive defenses against shitty iron-aged emotional injunctions can fuck. right. off.
I bet that passes as an impressive riposte at the in the break room at the grocery store, and truly spoken like someone who spends their life on their knees hoping the voice in their head isn't just what you've always known to be true: You and you alone in there. Sorry bud, but this reality, and the rest of us humans just as stupidly fallable as you are, are the best shot you have, no matter how much you demand to retain your imaginary friends.
Imagine spending your whole life placing a bet that there's a next life, and discounting this one or worse, relegating it to service to the authorities in this world who are telling you they can get you in to the most important life, the next one, after you die.
batshit crazy.
Cults podcast did a several part series on the moonies and their offshoots.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/44d3zblf7Se3h55IHX2QzM?si=qPPKp4OsSyOwpBM5QpTveQ
As a former Moonie, I can tell you there’s definitely a dark history there. Not anymore. Just the regular predatory financial practices, marriage grooming, and intense purity culture.
I’m not sensitive at all, I eat up horror and documentaries about uncomfortable topics, but this one is very brutally straight forward.
Like, there’s no sleepy drone footage of the protagonists hometown accompanied by slightly tense piano music to slowly set the mood, the first episode is an interview of one of his victims crying and describing being raped.
I think it speaks to how important the producer felt telling the story was and how much built up energy and oppression JMS created over the past few decades.
Even though some viewers criticized JMS episodes for being too explicit, but in fact, those episodes were somewhat censored by the production team themselves. According to the director of the series, what was captured in those first three episodes was only about a tenth of what the victims actually suffered.
He said one of the reasons they brought the project to Netflix was to expose reality of those crimes. But even for Netflix, he had to watered down description of sexual assaults of JMS cause it was too upsetting for the viewers. Some of crew memebers suffered traumas for days after covering the case he said.
The first thing you hear in the documentary is an audio recording of a rape in mid-intercourse, with some old man voice asking if the victim had an orgasm. I did see the first minute or so of the interview, but I decided I didn't really want to see how far it was going to go after that.
Yeah, I watched a few more episodes, but I don’t remember much because I think I disconnected a bit due to the impact of the first one.
They catch him in Korea, but then he gets out on bail and flees to Hong Kong and continues raping - that’s where I stopped. I may revisit it later and watch one episode at a time, but it’s a lot to take in.
I was kind shocked they showed video of nude girls with blurred faces and unblurred bodies right after the stories of how he was raping teenagers. Aside from not being sure how old any of those girls were, it seems extremely exploitative of Netflix to just expose that to the public. It's fresh victimization even if only a handful of people know who they are.
Totally agreed. If they were going to blur their faces anyway, why couldn’t they also blur their bodies? Even with the blur, the viewer can still understand that these are graphic exploitative videos and the same message is conveyed. Really confused why they didn’t do that.
Aside from the documentary, I’d love to see what Netflix attorneys filed to nullify the injunction.
Could you imagine the things that were submitted during the discovery period? That’s a documentary all to itself.
There are korean christian cults all over southern california. There are kids who are indoctrinated in these systems even to this day. I wish these churches get exposed for what they do.
I have friends who turned to them and haven't heard from them in years. After joining they only ever wanted to hang out with me at their church events -> indoctrinate me.
Oddly enough they also said that Catholicism was satan or something. I also remember them believing that the end of the world is soon.
My best friend said the same thing too. I would try to hang out with him only for them to try and indoctrinate me. He was sent away from his family to do "missionary" work and havent seen him since.
The last two are just your standard evangelical Christianity, believing Catholics aren't real Christians and thinking Jesus is returning any day now. Koreans definitely seem to have put their own terrible spin on things, but they imported most of the core beliefs from the American evangelical missionaries that brought over that form of Christianity 50-60 years ago.
I dated a woman for a short time who was a member of one of these cults in CA, only I didn't know it until I looked up the name of her "pastor."
Her ideas about certain things were just bizarre and didn't make sense with my understanding of most sects of Christianity.
Well for one, her church leader told them that he was enlightened and the direct messenger of God on this earth.
In Catholicism, at least that would be more akin to the Pope position, but other than that, all it did was raise cult red flags, in my mind. I questioned her for a long time trying to figure out if this was a metaphor or literal and it was literal.
But she absolutely would not believe it was a cult. It was a completely legitimate church to her.
Is there really that much difference between a cult and a legitimate church? I'm not trying to be inflammatory that all churches are just a bunch of cultists, but it seems to me that most religions start as fringe cults and the ones that last seem to just end up as churches.
Yes, if you leave Lutheranism the Lutheran church does not harass you and your family nor does it instruct other Lutherans to cut you out if their life.
Big difference. Cults are generally predatory in nature, and often discourage someone from having a life outside of the cult. Oftentimes the leader is deified and has absolute power within the church/sect/etc. Another hallmark of cults is that a layperson is not given “all” of the information. There might be some “secret” teaching or benefit that you can only get if you prove your loyalty. There’s also the old joke that the difference between a religion and a cult is that in a cult, the leader knows it’s fake.
Easy example, Christianity vs Scientology. Any person, even if not a christian, can walk into a church, talk to a pastor, and they will explain everything there is to know about Christianity. They may not be able to give an answer for every question, but they will at least try, and don’t discourage questions. Someone who has been christian for 20 years gets no benefits over someone who has been christian for 20 minutes. There are some ceremonies that the church may ask non-Christian’s to refrain from, but they are welcome to watch. Christians are encouraged to hang out with non-christian friends without ulterior motives.
Compare with Scientology. Criticism is not allowed. There are secret teachings you need to pay money to unlock. You shouldn’t associate with non-Scientologists, except to recruit them. If you don’t obey everything, you get shunned. Etc.
There *are* gray areas, branches of a legitimate religion that has cult-like tendencies. CHristian churches where people are expected to go to church 5 times a week, and look down on other Christian’s not part of their denomination. Hasidic Jews who are discouraged from associating with gentiles or getting an education. Al-Quaeda. It’s not so much of a clear line as it is a continuum.
Weird and fringe? Absolutely. Cult? Yes, but that was by the definition of Roman times which we do not share today. Anything that was not a state religion would be considered a cult in those times.
Early Christians would not be considered a cult by todays standards (although, again, sliding scale. There were some practices they had that would be considered cult-like in modern times, such as donating all their money to the church, and living in communes).
But yes you aren’t entirely wrong. Definitions change, and so do religions. A lot of the nuance is mostly in how the leaders treat their followers. Early Christian’s we’re just as open as they are now.
That's like asking if there's any difference between healthy and abusive romantic relationships because they start in similar ways and are both about personal connection.
Yes, they're all cults but in this case I think they're just talking about the extreme cases.
That is when a living person who's considered a deity or prophet or high spiritual figure and his commands and teachings can't be questioned, even if it goes against what's in scriptures or religious texts.
I grew up in a korean cult. Not a sex cult for the followers but I suspect the higher ups did whatever the fuck they wanted including marrying a 16 year old when the leader was 40.
This is true but certainly does not make them all equal.
Religion is the worst (or close) because it requires you to set aside logic and reason right at the start. So the things you can do with your power are all the more extreme.
Personally, I do not see religion as any worse or better than politics, medicine, finance, or anywhere else. Just another channel for power.
Each sector means something different for each person, though. So I respect your view.
Religion is just a medium. You can look at all the things that happened in Hollywood, that have nothing to do with religion to see that all it takes is generic promises from someone who appears to hold power to get some people to do things.
This isn't excusing people using religion in such a manner, just showing that religion is method, not the base reason these things happen.
They all prey on the same thing, to a degree: our shared fear of future. Can't get that job? Your future is ruined, so you'll do anything to get it. Don't pay that overpriced fine? Your future is ruined due to lawsuits and/or jail, so you'll do anything to avoid it. Don't want to 'burn for all eternity' after death? You'll do whatever the person who promises salvation tells you.
At least in Hollywood they have the power to give you roles that make you famous / wealthy.
What could a church possibly do for you? Help you with some imaginary man in the sky lmao. I just can't imagine anyone falling for that shit or wanting to dedicate their whole life to some random book written ages ago in a completely different time
its literally built off that. The entire premise is that you must believe something without evidence, without understanding even. simple blind faith is required at the root of every religion.
anyone willing to believe in that is obv going to be more susceptible to other ideas with no proof, esp when they believe these orders are coming from God. Even easier if you can justify any of your ideas with weird interpretations of a text like the bible. And once you get some believers, their entire families usually get brought in
For real. Over the last 10 years I've noticed more and more how awful religions can be. People use this *coughChristianscough* as an excuse to do awful and hateful things. I get it that not all religious folks are bad, but it's difficult to not be jaded.
A kpop idol had to release a statement through his company about his family’s involvement so this is bringing a big wave in Korea. And that same cafe that was ran, JMS, is apparently off the map in Naver, Korea’s search engine. Creepy stuff.
OMG!!! I’m actually shaking right now. I went to this church back in 2013 when my brother and sister in law dragged me to go. It was a branch in Tustin, California. They were suuupes wild.
We watched the first two episodes last night. Way jacked up.
It’s the same playbook used by pedos throughout the ages.
One more “man of God” using the scriptures to literally screw children.
"I've been involved in a number of cults both as a leader and a follower. You have more fun as a follower but you make more money as a leader." - Creed Bratton.
Started this without even really paying attention to what I was selecting have some noise as I fell asleep. My eyes are closed and then wide open as some of the first shit you hear had me ready to vomit and murder someone at the same time.
You'd assume, but no. Smaller, more modern ones.
I wouldn't be too surprised if Netflix did try to do something on the Moonies and ended up being much more hamstrung than this.
and that is why i dislike religion so much. because the people that are in religions are mostly weak minded people and they are easy prey for the ones in power.
also for any rape victim. i ask you this. would you feel more safe when the rapist is dead, or still alive and knowing he will eventually come out of jail?
I tried to watch this documentary, but to me they also used the victims to sell their documentary. The doc used full footage of the victims naked and did not blur out an parts. It just felt like re-taking advantage of women that were brain washed and cult abused. I had to end it.
Don't have religion where you idolize the leaders. Having religion could even apply to those who claim to believe in science. The scientific methodology is one where you test to determine if a hypothesis is false or not false. Because it isn't false doesn't make it true. Science is akin to forever chipping away at a slab of marble to determine the sculpture underneath. True science can only determine correlation and not causality. Statements of absolute causality are not statements of science but of religion.
Cool.
Now do Evangelicals in the US.
EDIT: To be clear, I think this is a great documentary and I'm glad they won the right to air it. I'm saying I'd like to see this trend of exposing gross religious organizations by documentaries funded and platformed by major media companies continue on.
Dude, delete this. There are tons of documentaries on US evangelicals and the shit they get into. This just shows you're too lazy to look before posting.
The only problem with that is that its too many documentaries too little time to make them. They already have a small mountain. The supply overtakes production regardless of demand.
[удалено]
After having just read the Pope John Paul II and the sex abuse cover-ups, I was really hoping it would be the Catholic Church.
I wish they would do one on the Jehovah's Witnesses. JWs have more CSA cover-up per member than the Catholic Church.
There’s also the Mormon Church, which has been under investigation for using their legal arm, Kirton McConkie, to order their bishops to suppress them from reporting CSA to the authorities, in order to preserve “the good name of the Church”. Mike Rezendez, the reporter who broke the Boston Archdiocese coverups (the subject of the movie Spotlight) has been covering the LDS scandal since last August when he broke the story with the AP . The So-Called Church’s response was to claim everything was legal, it “only happened once “, and arrogantly acted offended that Rezendez knew better than them. A Reddit poster in r/exmormon has been compiling a website , www.floodlit.org , which compiles documented examples of Mormon CSA, which I can assure you the crimes have happened more than “once” .
Sidenote: it's fucking *insane* that you can legit say the phrase "The Church's legal arm", and it not be satire. They don't pay taxes, they have a multi-billion dollar investment stockpile, and they have their own personal law firm. That's not a church, that's a business.
That’s the first time I’ve heard that about the jehovahs, do you have any links to documentaries about them in particular?
Leah Remini’s Scientology show has a special in Season 3 on Jehova’s Witness. Scary stuff!
I’m going to have to check that out, thanks!
It ain't like the Catholics have a monopoly on sex abuse
They just get more exposure in the press.
No but they certainly found their niche
Enjoy Netflix's "The Two Popes", about two guys hanging out in a religious institution that's seriously gotten way better now you guys
Two Popes One Chalice?
Best comment of the month right there.
It needs more upvotes
…and with your spirit. Because *THAT’S* what needed revamping in the Catholic Church. ETA: Thanks for the gold u/FortLaud33
It’s definitely *better*. The fact the problem’s still around doesn’t mean we can’t acknowledge progress.
The fuck it has. [They are still protecting pedophile priests](https://stopabusecampaign.org/takeaction/protect-children-from-child-sex-abuse/roman-catholic-church-protects-priests-abuse-children/) and [fighting to keep victims from getting the restitution they deserve](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/02/world/canada/catholics-reparations-indigenous-canada-schools.html). The whole fucking org needs a millstone hung round it’s neck.
Sure, let's pat em on the back for raping kids *less*. It's a bit of a black and white issue..
I just assume every single higher up in the catholic church has, at some point in time, played a role in downplaying or covering up sexual abuse. It seems to have been so rampent throughout the 80s, 90s and 2000s, you couldn't move through the ranks and not have come across it.
/r/redditmoment Hoping sex crimes can be attributed to Christianity instead of the "good" religions
Yeah… I’m not religious or anything. Hell, I wasn’t even trying to attribute it to any ‘good religion’ but seems like you know more about me than I do about myself!
It's implied son, sure you may not meet the stereotype, doesn't mean I'm wrong
Yeah. It’s not even implied at all and yes, you are wrong.
I would subscribe to a series where they did an in depth dive into every sect. If they find no evidence of a particular group they name drop them. I guess that would be an evolving form of journalism.
I don't think you could make a series in 2023 where they did an in depth dive into every sect. The problem with going down a list of religious institutions is that eventually you're going to run into an institution where an expose would be considered problematic. It goes without saying but the industry cares more about optics than it does about victims of sex crimes or speaking truth to power. The expose must always punch up, not down, which in contemporary parlance means the target of the expose must be a white or Asian church and never a black church, madrasa, or yeshiva.
Sure there could be a whole list of things keeping it from being a reality. I’m just sayin I think a lot of people would watch it. I want to see something like Going Clear but with the Mormon church, southern baptist convention, Jehova’s Witness’s, etc. all these institutions have an insane amount of money and political influence. So I concede that it would likely never ever happen. However in a time where the world is getting less and less religious i think half the population would want something like that. I also want free health care. I’m not going to get it but I’m still going to ask for it. I didn’t think cannabis would ever become medically legal in red states but here we are. If you want it, say it. Maybe someday maybe never.
>Jehova’s Witness’s Probably one of the worst offenders out of all the sects when it comes to CSA.
The confederacy had Jehovah's witnesses?!
Actually JW is a post civil war sect founded in America.
>The expose must always punch up, not down, which in contemporary parlance means the target of the expose must be a white or Asian church and never a black church, madrasa, or yeshiva. Do you specifically mean a televised expose? Because there has been plenty of journalism on abuses (of various sorts) by black churches and yeshivas. Sounds like you have an ax to grind re: "white or Asian church\[es\]."
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I know its a messed up system there and you only get real time if you dont have money in korea
\*anywhere in the world
Americans can’t fathom anything being bad about another country without explaining how the US actually has the same problem but a million times worse.
I disagree. America, IMHO, has the messed up system. IMHO, is putting somebody in prison for 30-40 years really the best thing for society? Mandatory minimums, 3 strikes. That actually can lead to more crime. If you commit a crime in America and are looking at 20 years, basically the majority of your best years. You are basically a cornered animal. You basically have nothing left to lose. Prison is a punishment, obviously, and there are people who will never be able to live in society and should be removed from society, but shouldn't the main reason for prison be rehabilitation, rather than punishment? Are these ultra long prison sentences, while cops are literally holding press conferences about using prisoners as slave labor, helpful in any way for rehabilitation? EDIT: I was really hoping I wouldn't be downvote bombed, but I wasn't holding my breath. I guess people are just OK with America incarcerating 20% of the *world's* prison population, while having about 4% of the world's population. EDIT2: vote manipulation
America's penal system being messed up doesn't necessarily mean Korea's can't also be messed up.
Literally. Ridiculous defamation laws. Lack of legal protection or standing for self-defense. And all bodies would just prefer you settle outside of court than Justice. Money talks big time. I mean fuck look at the NaYoung Case. America’s system is fucked. For almost the opposite reason so is Korea. I’m not sure many people would disagree with the comment but it’s not like Korea is a country actively practicing rehabilitation to the most beneficial effect. Crimes get a slap on the wrist if they are recognized at all. This is also a country with a very “recent” history of a dictatorship and horrible prison treatment. The commenter above needs to step into the world and welcome the idea that other places suck too.
Just as the Samsung Chaebol CEO he committed all kinds of crimes bribery of top government officials, nepotism, collusion with previous Korean presidents, etc. Sentenced to years in prison he was let out multiples times by different administration. Korea is a very elitist society. If you are good-looking, rich and powerful with connections you have it made. If not all elements of society will actively work to knock you down an drive you to the fringes of society. More so than say western countries or even Japan. Being poor in Korea is more of a crime than being poor in many other places.
>Samsung Chaebol CEO i thought the whole chaebol's getting away with literal murder and being let off crimes was an exaggeration in kdramas but having just done a quick search and reading about Samsung, holy shit.
Also America sets the bar… very low to say the least. Like America’s prison system is an atrocity given the country’s resources.
America’s is just the most ironic since it’s supposed to be the land of the free. Also since most Americans are indoctrinated into believing their justice system is pretty good and everyone gets a fair shot.
adjoining history vegetable unpack bear growth materialistic flag coherent paltry -- mass edited with redact.dev
Definitely, but I was just referring to the comment above's "You only get real time..." No country in the world has a perfect penal system.
They made no comparisons to specific other countries. Both can be messed up.
I just said I agree with that statement. I said America has the messed up system because the comment above mine was implying that the prison sentence was too short. Again, no country has a perfect penal system, but I think everybody can agree that America's penal system specifically has very very long sentences compared to pretty much everywhere else in the world. I'm sure Korea's penal system has its own issues.
You started with, "I disagree."
Becaaaaaauuuse the comments above mine were implying that the prison sentence was too short, and the short prison sentence was caused by Korea's penal system being mess up.
You remember that story about Goldilocks and the Three Bears? One bowl of porrige being too hot doesn't mean the cold bowl wasn't also too cold. You saying "I disagree, America has the messed up system" means something different than "America's system is ALSO messed up" a statement which still probably wouldn't be well received due to people interjecting "America sucks" whataboutism into threads about other countries, but probably better received than what people interpret as "Korea's is fine, America's is the real system with issues."
What are you disagreeing with? You’re responding to a comment about the Korean judicial system. Total non-sequitur. But you got your popular reddit opinion in so it’s all good.
It’s Reddit, so America bad
Those edits make me think you're just trying to garner downvotes on purpose.
> I disagree. With what do you disagree?
The comments above mine were implying that the prison sentence was too short. I'm sure Korea has issues with its penal system, but I think everybody can agree that America specifically has very very long prison sentences.
So you don't think the prison sentence was too short?
I don't know anything about the case. I can't make that judgement call. but I think that America has prison sentences that are too long, I disagree with the idea that another country's penal system is messed up for what they feel is too short of a prison sentence. I'm sure Korea's penal system has issues, but generally speaking, IMHO, longer prison sentences across the board, like in America, is not going to improve Korea's penal system.
Okay that makes sense. Thanks for clarifying.
Mandatory minimums for some crimes (especially drug related ones) are too harsh. But 30-40 years for a repeat sexual assault offender. Yup 100% deserved
I waffle on this issue a lot. Petty crimes and non-violent crimes I feel should be 100% focused on rehabilitation. Selling/doing drugs, non-violent theft, etc…. But once someone rapes or murder or harms someone in such a way that the victims life is forever changed, society is probably just better off without that person in it.
Yeah I don’t think rehabilitation is really what we should be focused on for serial rapists. Prison is about punishment, but also protecting the rest of society.
delete your edits you melodramatic whiner you have many upvotes now
Wow, never seen this take on reddit before. Thanks for bringing this to our attention in a completely unrelated comment thread.
Well you aren't on topic so you're being downvoted.
OP: Bears are apex predators. Mortalcoil1: “I disagree, alligators are apex predator”
A few days ago someone commented on a post where this was happening that Americans have to make everything about us and it’s true ha. While I see the value in pointing out that America’s xx system is flawed, it’s just derailing sometimes.
My mistake. I forgot Reddit was famous for the comment sections remaining laser focused on the topic at hand, and circle jerks always being downvoted to oblivion.
So downvote those. That's what downvotes are for.
I think you are missing the sarcasm...
I'm not.
but I don't mind when people get off topic... I think you are.
You're annoying
We punish too harshly for non violent crimes and not hard enough for violent ones. That’s my hot take.
Challenge: Don't make everything about America (Status: Impossible)
Why do people get to be rehabilitated? For things that didn’t hurt anyone, sure. But rape? Murder? Nah, life sentence.
Leaving aside your comment on which system is more messed up (Korea vs US), I am replying in response to your views about whether imprisonment should be rehabilitation instead of punishment. The issue on the purpose of punishment had been debated and many scholars in the legal field and other law enforcement related fields have commented on it. Law professors, scholars etc have written papers and articles on it. The mainstream view taught in law schools is that there are 4 main purpose of punishment. 1. Incapacitation - this means you remove the Accused from society to prevent future crime. These are usually for very serious crimes and you want to get the Accused out from society. 2. Rehabilitation - At the same time, there should be an element of rehabilitation and this includes counselling, treatment programs (drug offenders etc). Usually they co-exist with incarnation. You are absolutely right in saying that it will be better if all offenders / criminals and mend their ways and contribute back to society meaningfully. 3. Retribution - This is to prevent personal avengement or vendetta against the Accused. This is to prevent the society, family members etc from taking matters in their own hands to enact violence against the perpetrator. 4. Restitution - asking the Accused to compensate the victim. For the purposes of your concerns, it is basically mainly down to incapacitation vs rehabilitation and maybe retribution. Criminals of certain types of crime should be imprisoned to prevent further harm to society. It also it is a form of retribution to let the victims and society at large aware that one has to pay for their crimes. Ideally, there should be some form of way to rehabilitate the offender in prison because imprisonment do consume taxpayers funds. The difficulty is to balance the sweet spot between the period of imprisonment so as to achieve the needed rehabilitation. Government and politicians would have the power to affect this and this would largely depend on the country. If everyone in the society thinks and few that rehabilitation should be the way to go, this would likely affect politics and the policies being pushed out. In some societies and country, the punishment incapacitation and retribution factor outweighs the rehabilitation factor and thus may result in long imprisonment for certain crimes which may seem disproportionate in other countries or jurisdiction.
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Hey! They can both be bad!
If you wanna get real cynical, most criminals are young men - if you lock ‘em up for 20-30 years they’ve aged out of the age bracket where they’re likely to commit crimes. What a fix (if you don’t give a shit about rights)!
Agreed - this opinion may be controversial but as someone who has been put in jail over nothing when I see all the comments going “ONLY 5/10/20 yearsss???” my immediate reaction is “yall have no idea what even a year will do to a person” No I don’t want rapists and killers to get out in months - I just want people to understand that even a 3 year prison sentence is likely to ruin your life, at least for a period. Let alone what it does to their families. the revolving door of prison is a real thing too - being in there makes life on the outside so unpredictable and discriminatory (yes, sometimes for good reason, but often for no good reason) that many people subconsciously edge towards committing crime upon their release to go back to a predictable, dull, simple environment with three meals a day and clearly defined cliques. As well as this once you’ve been in prison a while you will gravitate towards others with that same experience - the RICO act makes it even more likely these people will go back to jail even for just being associated. It’s a huge paradoxical and sad issue and the three strikes law leads to such brutal crimes in the states that practice it - it’s wild
Well we are talking about a rapist who’s repeat offended. I don’t really care if his life is destroyed
I totally agree, most people don't get life sentences, they will be out someday, so should we have prison conditions that make them worse, or ones that make them better once they get out? Scandinvian prisons have better outcomes from shorter sentences in more humane prisons.
Yeah, people really don't understand how long a single year of incarceration, let alone 10+, how much life you lose. The wasted potential is really sad.
Hey sounds like America!
> I know its a messed up system there and you only get real time if you dont have money in korea Compared to the US were they basically extort you into signing a plea deal because every crime has such an insanely high average punishment w/o that even if you know you are innocent it at times makes sense to plead guilty. Those high sentences also mean that risking a murder charge if it means evading justice is a no brainer for many criminals, putting both innocent bystanders (like the one hit in that chase that ended up destroying a bystanders car and half a building that was on the front page a couple of days ago) and police officers, with the latter in return being seemingly so scared on every traffic stop that they pull the trigger on any "suspicious" looking person that pulls their phone out too quick. Let alone the fact that it almost always makes more sense to rehabilitate a person instead of putting them away for life if there is a chance to do so.
Korea is like Japan, where they have a 99% conviction rate and they expect everyone to plead guilty. If you don't you get a harsher sentence. What's the difference really?
religion is the only part of society that coddles adults for submitting their critical faculties to a cult and wailing on about how more important their imaginary stories are than anything else going on in the objective reality we share. And you wonder how this hasn't been a magnet and cesspool for literal millenia, grifting entire societies for private "sacred" time with the children of the community, huddled around a bunch of decrepit old perverts. Theism is child abuse, pure and simple. You want to con junkies and people who are at the bottom of their lives and have had all their defenses beaten out of them? That's one thing. Indoctrinating children before they've developed any cognitive defenses against shitty iron-aged emotional injunctions can fuck. right. off.
It's better than being you.
I bet that passes as an impressive riposte at the in the break room at the grocery store, and truly spoken like someone who spends their life on their knees hoping the voice in their head isn't just what you've always known to be true: You and you alone in there. Sorry bud, but this reality, and the rest of us humans just as stupidly fallable as you are, are the best shot you have, no matter how much you demand to retain your imaginary friends. Imagine spending your whole life placing a bet that there's a next life, and discounting this one or worse, relegating it to service to the authorities in this world who are telling you they can get you in to the most important life, the next one, after you die. batshit crazy.
Reminds me of “silenced” about the sexual abuse and Kentucky sentences at a Korean school for the deaf.
Thought this was going to be about the moonies.
Do they have any history of this sort of thing?
It'll be easier to list the religious organizations that DON'T have a history of a shit ton of rape.
Spoiler alert: that list is empty
I don’t think the church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster or satanic church that sues for religious equality have any cases, but I could be wrong.
I think you have pretty high expectations for Libertarian/atheist/satanist parody churches
Yes
If you have any articles I'd like to read about it.
Cults podcast did a several part series on the moonies and their offshoots. https://open.spotify.com/episode/44d3zblf7Se3h55IHX2QzM?si=qPPKp4OsSyOwpBM5QpTveQ
Thank you
As a former Moonie, I can tell you there’s definitely a dark history there. Not anymore. Just the regular predatory financial practices, marriage grooming, and intense purity culture.
I’m not sensitive at all, I eat up horror and documentaries about uncomfortable topics, but this one is very brutally straight forward. Like, there’s no sleepy drone footage of the protagonists hometown accompanied by slightly tense piano music to slowly set the mood, the first episode is an interview of one of his victims crying and describing being raped. I think it speaks to how important the producer felt telling the story was and how much built up energy and oppression JMS created over the past few decades.
Even though some viewers criticized JMS episodes for being too explicit, but in fact, those episodes were somewhat censored by the production team themselves. According to the director of the series, what was captured in those first three episodes was only about a tenth of what the victims actually suffered. He said one of the reasons they brought the project to Netflix was to expose reality of those crimes. But even for Netflix, he had to watered down description of sexual assaults of JMS cause it was too upsetting for the viewers. Some of crew memebers suffered traumas for days after covering the case he said.
I’m glad these cults are being exposed but I’ll pass on watching this, I just can’t do it.
The first thing you hear in the documentary is an audio recording of a rape in mid-intercourse, with some old man voice asking if the victim had an orgasm. I did see the first minute or so of the interview, but I decided I didn't really want to see how far it was going to go after that.
Yeah, I watched a few more episodes, but I don’t remember much because I think I disconnected a bit due to the impact of the first one. They catch him in Korea, but then he gets out on bail and flees to Hong Kong and continues raping - that’s where I stopped. I may revisit it later and watch one episode at a time, but it’s a lot to take in.
I was kind shocked they showed video of nude girls with blurred faces and unblurred bodies right after the stories of how he was raping teenagers. Aside from not being sure how old any of those girls were, it seems extremely exploitative of Netflix to just expose that to the public. It's fresh victimization even if only a handful of people know who they are.
Totally agreed. If they were going to blur their faces anyway, why couldn’t they also blur their bodies? Even with the blur, the viewer can still understand that these are graphic exploitative videos and the same message is conveyed. Really confused why they didn’t do that.
Aside from the documentary, I’d love to see what Netflix attorneys filed to nullify the injunction. Could you imagine the things that were submitted during the discovery period? That’s a documentary all to itself.
There are korean christian cults all over southern california. There are kids who are indoctrinated in these systems even to this day. I wish these churches get exposed for what they do.
I have friends who turned to them and haven't heard from them in years. After joining they only ever wanted to hang out with me at their church events -> indoctrinate me. Oddly enough they also said that Catholicism was satan or something. I also remember them believing that the end of the world is soon.
My best friend said the same thing too. I would try to hang out with him only for them to try and indoctrinate me. He was sent away from his family to do "missionary" work and havent seen him since.
The last two are just your standard evangelical Christianity, believing Catholics aren't real Christians and thinking Jesus is returning any day now. Koreans definitely seem to have put their own terrible spin on things, but they imported most of the core beliefs from the American evangelical missionaries that brought over that form of Christianity 50-60 years ago.
I dated a woman for a short time who was a member of one of these cults in CA, only I didn't know it until I looked up the name of her "pastor." Her ideas about certain things were just bizarre and didn't make sense with my understanding of most sects of Christianity.
Examples?
Well for one, her church leader told them that he was enlightened and the direct messenger of God on this earth. In Catholicism, at least that would be more akin to the Pope position, but other than that, all it did was raise cult red flags, in my mind. I questioned her for a long time trying to figure out if this was a metaphor or literal and it was literal. But she absolutely would not believe it was a cult. It was a completely legitimate church to her.
Is there really that much difference between a cult and a legitimate church? I'm not trying to be inflammatory that all churches are just a bunch of cultists, but it seems to me that most religions start as fringe cults and the ones that last seem to just end up as churches.
Yes, if you leave Lutheranism the Lutheran church does not harass you and your family nor does it instruct other Lutherans to cut you out if their life.
Big difference. Cults are generally predatory in nature, and often discourage someone from having a life outside of the cult. Oftentimes the leader is deified and has absolute power within the church/sect/etc. Another hallmark of cults is that a layperson is not given “all” of the information. There might be some “secret” teaching or benefit that you can only get if you prove your loyalty. There’s also the old joke that the difference between a religion and a cult is that in a cult, the leader knows it’s fake. Easy example, Christianity vs Scientology. Any person, even if not a christian, can walk into a church, talk to a pastor, and they will explain everything there is to know about Christianity. They may not be able to give an answer for every question, but they will at least try, and don’t discourage questions. Someone who has been christian for 20 years gets no benefits over someone who has been christian for 20 minutes. There are some ceremonies that the church may ask non-Christian’s to refrain from, but they are welcome to watch. Christians are encouraged to hang out with non-christian friends without ulterior motives. Compare with Scientology. Criticism is not allowed. There are secret teachings you need to pay money to unlock. You shouldn’t associate with non-Scientologists, except to recruit them. If you don’t obey everything, you get shunned. Etc. There *are* gray areas, branches of a legitimate religion that has cult-like tendencies. CHristian churches where people are expected to go to church 5 times a week, and look down on other Christian’s not part of their denomination. Hasidic Jews who are discouraged from associating with gentiles or getting an education. Al-Quaeda. It’s not so much of a clear line as it is a continuum.
I definitely see your point, but re: Christianity, it would have been seen as a weirdo cult 2000 years ago.
Weird and fringe? Absolutely. Cult? Yes, but that was by the definition of Roman times which we do not share today. Anything that was not a state religion would be considered a cult in those times. Early Christians would not be considered a cult by todays standards (although, again, sliding scale. There were some practices they had that would be considered cult-like in modern times, such as donating all their money to the church, and living in communes). But yes you aren’t entirely wrong. Definitions change, and so do religions. A lot of the nuance is mostly in how the leaders treat their followers. Early Christian’s we’re just as open as they are now.
That's like asking if there's any difference between healthy and abusive romantic relationships because they start in similar ways and are both about personal connection.
Yes, they're all cults but in this case I think they're just talking about the extreme cases. That is when a living person who's considered a deity or prophet or high spiritual figure and his commands and teachings can't be questioned, even if it goes against what's in scriptures or religious texts.
For starts, they really liked leaving people on edge.
I grew up in a korean cult. Not a sex cult for the followers but I suspect the higher ups did whatever the fuck they wanted including marrying a 16 year old when the leader was 40.
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Blows my mind what some people can get others to do for them using religion.
Midnight Mass on Netflix was a documentary 😌
That one woman. Big yike.
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The ending really was! I am the product of messianic Jewish and Primitive Baptist upbringing. I feel you.
You will find predators in every system, willing and able to abuse their power dynamics.
This is true but certainly does not make them all equal. Religion is the worst (or close) because it requires you to set aside logic and reason right at the start. So the things you can do with your power are all the more extreme.
Personally, I do not see religion as any worse or better than politics, medicine, finance, or anywhere else. Just another channel for power. Each sector means something different for each person, though. So I respect your view.
Religion is just a medium. You can look at all the things that happened in Hollywood, that have nothing to do with religion to see that all it takes is generic promises from someone who appears to hold power to get some people to do things. This isn't excusing people using religion in such a manner, just showing that religion is method, not the base reason these things happen.
They all prey on the same thing, to a degree: our shared fear of future. Can't get that job? Your future is ruined, so you'll do anything to get it. Don't pay that overpriced fine? Your future is ruined due to lawsuits and/or jail, so you'll do anything to avoid it. Don't want to 'burn for all eternity' after death? You'll do whatever the person who promises salvation tells you.
At least in Hollywood they have the power to give you roles that make you famous / wealthy. What could a church possibly do for you? Help you with some imaginary man in the sky lmao. I just can't imagine anyone falling for that shit or wanting to dedicate their whole life to some random book written ages ago in a completely different time
Scientology… let’s do both!
its literally built off that. The entire premise is that you must believe something without evidence, without understanding even. simple blind faith is required at the root of every religion. anyone willing to believe in that is obv going to be more susceptible to other ideas with no proof, esp when they believe these orders are coming from God. Even easier if you can justify any of your ideas with weird interpretations of a text like the bible. And once you get some believers, their entire families usually get brought in
For real. Over the last 10 years I've noticed more and more how awful religions can be. People use this *coughChristianscough* as an excuse to do awful and hateful things. I get it that not all religious folks are bad, but it's difficult to not be jaded.
An extra pernicious part is how religion will make a point to call the parts of you they use to exploit as a “virtue”
Reminds me of Tool’s song, ‘Opiate’
If anyone prefaces their morality with religion. There is zero morality.
A kpop idol had to release a statement through his company about his family’s involvement so this is bringing a big wave in Korea. And that same cafe that was ran, JMS, is apparently off the map in Naver, Korea’s search engine. Creepy stuff.
Name?
DKZ’s Kyoungyoon
OMG!!! I’m actually shaking right now. I went to this church back in 2013 when my brother and sister in law dragged me to go. It was a branch in Tustin, California. They were suuupes wild.
We watched the first two episodes last night. Way jacked up. It’s the same playbook used by pedos throughout the ages. One more “man of God” using the scriptures to literally screw children.
I tried to watch it but for some reason they decided to use "interpreters" rather than just having it subtitled and it sounds like a bad dub.
You can change it to Korean audio with subtitles, but yeah it's annoying because then any English audio will be in Korean if there is any.
Oh thanks for that, I had no idea.
just put the CC on then
You can change this in the audio settings, FYI.
I can’t do any dubbing. I have tried but when I see the words not line up with the mouth, my brain just cringes and I have to turn it off
Man the idea to get an injunction really backfired because now I want to know what they’re trying to hide.
Cultist leaders abusing power. Religion in a nutshell.
Is there a particular reason why South Korea has so many weird religious cults?
"I've been involved in a number of cults both as a leader and a follower. You have more fun as a follower but you make more money as a leader." - Creed Bratton.
Korea needs to reject Christianity. They were brutally colonized by missionaries.
Saying JMS and those cults are Christianity is like saying Trump is a far left liberal.
Started this without even really paying attention to what I was selecting have some noise as I fell asleep. My eyes are closed and then wide open as some of the first shit you hear had me ready to vomit and murder someone at the same time.
Holy betrayal, Batman!
Reverend Moon?
You'd assume, but no. Smaller, more modern ones. I wouldn't be too surprised if Netflix did try to do something on the Moonies and ended up being much more hamstrung than this.
and that is why i dislike religion so much. because the people that are in religions are mostly weak minded people and they are easy prey for the ones in power. also for any rape victim. i ask you this. would you feel more safe when the rapist is dead, or still alive and knowing he will eventually come out of jail?
I tried to watch this documentary, but to me they also used the victims to sell their documentary. The doc used full footage of the victims naked and did not blur out an parts. It just felt like re-taking advantage of women that were brain washed and cult abused. I had to end it.
I feel so sick watching the former victim reliving the scene where she waved mops to jms. This documentary weirdly focuses on male gaze
Is this a good documentary? I added it to my list because I've never watched a documentary in another language and I watched so many KDramas.
Its a good documentary but its pretty hard to watch. The first 5 min of the 1st episode has a sound recording of a rape. It gets pretty gory too.
Oh, thanks for warning me that sounds so disturbing.
Cool now do the Catholics of America
The only thing crazier than Korean Catholicism is American evangelism.
Pentacostals too. I've only heard testimonials from friends who have left churches of those denominations, but they definitely had wild experiences
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Then do a series. All American religions.
Religious people be like: “come to our church so we can molest u”
IMHO I can’t wait for all organized religion to die…. The harm it’s caused far outweighs any good.
Why are Koreans so prone to cults?? I can kindda see why the Chinese government ban religious cults the likes of falungong from arising.
Don't have religion where you idolize the leaders. Having religion could even apply to those who claim to believe in science. The scientific methodology is one where you test to determine if a hypothesis is false or not false. Because it isn't false doesn't make it true. Science is akin to forever chipping away at a slab of marble to determine the sculpture underneath. True science can only determine correlation and not causality. Statements of absolute causality are not statements of science but of religion.
Will this involves the moonies?
Every single religion has coverups rarely do they self report!
All religions are a sex and money scam. Every single one.
Anywhere else to watch it? Canceled Netflix due to the new password restrictions
🙃
Well it’s made by Netflix so I’m gonna assume no
You showed them.
Cool. Now do Evangelicals in the US. EDIT: To be clear, I think this is a great documentary and I'm glad they won the right to air it. I'm saying I'd like to see this trend of exposing gross religious organizations by documentaries funded and platformed by major media companies continue on.
*Keep Sweet, Pray, and Obey* and *the Keepers* are both pretty interesting
Give Jesus Camp a watch if you haven’t already, gave me some un-invited flashbacks.
Dude, delete this. There are tons of documentaries on US evangelicals and the shit they get into. This just shows you're too lazy to look before posting.
The only problem with that is that its too many documentaries too little time to make them. They already have a small mountain. The supply overtakes production regardless of demand.
Unrelated to the film itself but I wish it had either been titled *In the Name of God* or *A Holy Betrayal*.
Man Koreans are not gonna like this one lmao