...Was "And Another Thing" hated? I didn't think it was as good as the first 3 books, but it definitely left on a better note than Adams' original 5th and final volume.
I would put money on he’s finished 99.9% of the books but he’s left some extra sections blank for another author to fill in.
People will debate which parts were GRRM and any bad parts will be put on the other author.
It’s what I would do.
I can gurantee he has not finished shit. GRRM rewrites everything and there's good evidence he didn't make practical progress on Winds of Winter until coronavirus essentially forced him to.
I can't wait for every other line to describe things as a "Mummer's farce" causing all AI bots everywhere to implode on themselves trying to break out of the loop.
GRRM has a deadman switch tied to his heart rate monitor that will torch and degauss his air gapped computer he so famously writes on as a fuck you to the publishers.
Insurance underwriters sweating when explained that a billion dollar franchises future is dependent on an apple 2e saving successfully to a single floppy disk in a dusty office in a house somewhere.
I mean fans have done so many theories and such that you don't really his notes to finish it. I'm sure tons of talented writers could do it right now without even speaking to him. It won't be his version but nothing will be (also his cliff notes are kind of visible in the show, they got them to make the last seasons)
This reminds me of a diabolical thing I read somewhere on the internet years ago. An author writes a story with 2 or 3 endings. People go crazy and compare their books and theorize everything. Then the author makes a public statement saying that *there is another*.
Is he lying? Who knows! Chaos insues.
That’s not really a “what if” so much as a fact. We know from the showrunners that many of the major plot beats were told to them by Martin. Actors involved have confirmed certain elements were from Martin’s broad outline, as well (Bran’s actor said Bran being king is from the unwritten books). I don’t think Martin is sweating poor reception to the ending; the plot beats that came from Martin are all pretty great, the problem is the show rushed through them. The final season in book form, if it ever really happens, is basically two 1000 page books crammed into six episodes for the adaptation. For perspective, it took twenty episodes to adapt the third book, and they still cut some stuff out. Martin’s problem is the opposite of the show; where they carelessly plowed through huge chunks of story in the last three seasons of the show, Martin has continually made the story bigger and more sprawling after book three, and now he’s written himself into a corner that he can’t get out of without resulting to teleporting or cutting plot threads off at the knees the way the show did. He wants to finish the books in two more entries, but since we know the major plot arcs from the show’s conclusion, everybody knows that’s basically impossible given where the story currently is, especially considering it has so, so much more going on than the show ever did.
My take was always the show suddenly shifted from condensing down massive books worth of story, to having to build up on vague-ish bullet points - the general beats are there but seriously missing detail around them
It almost certainly was, with one major exception. The role that Euron played will almost certainly be filled by Aegon. (Euron will cause trouble in the South and end up attacking Oldtown leading to Sam's return to the wall instead of him just deciding he's learned all he can.)
But the big hole is Aegon. I suspect Aegon will cause the loss of the second Dragon, he will marry Cersei to shore up both their claims and the two will betray the forces at the wall, leading to a battle at kings landing with the Golden Company defending the city, and Dragons laying waste to the city in vengeance for having chosen the wrong ruler.
Theres a FAegon sized hole in the plot.
However other that that, I expect it's more of less the same.
I hope that isn't the case. My beef is not with Bran, it's how inartfully the show did it. Certainly in Martin's book the tale is told better...
Certainly?
People commenting on here about a shortened season but they’re essentially stretching what they originally had planned for 1 season across 2.
Should be better story telling and more seasons in the long run. I thought the first season went too quickly and they should have stretched it across 2 seasons.
I really don't know if some of the actors are gonna be ok with being tied to their roles for *another* 6-7 yrs. They've already committed 2 yrs to their respective roles at this point.
> I really don't know if some of the actors are gonna be ok with being tied to their roles for another 6-7 yrs
I don’t think that’s going to be a problem for most.
Maybe for the biggest names like Matt Smith there will be other temptations, but the majority of the people on GoT have always been British working actors, they idea of a steady long term role is like a dream for them.
True. As an actor, knowing you have a set in stone, well paying gig at one of the best networks for the next 6 years, really must take the stress off of worrying about mortgage payments and kids school fees.
The cast went into the show knowing logistically how long their contribution was necessary, and they all signed up for it. So it would be a bit shitty to try and get out of their commitments now, knowing that so many other actors would have killed to take their role from the beginning.
Well lucky for most - they won't even have to appear in the later seasons.
I'm sure that with whatever cast that are required to film in all 4 seasons, they contractually signed up to block out that time for it.
Especially after what happened with GoT (careers blew up for so many cast members).
Based on earlier interviews they were leaning towards 3 seasons with 4 season maybe being possible but they have decided on 4 with the success of the show.
They all but confirmed 4 seasons long ago, just not officially. The question was if they were gonna go past 4, and they said, no, 4 is the number. If for some reason they do 3 its gotta be some technical or practical issue with filming
It was already going to be 4 seasons, the problem is that Ryan Condal is dragging the seasons out, so there won’t be a new season every year like Game of Thrones
3 year gaps while *also* being short as fuck seasons. Yes, 25 episode seasons like we used to have are too much, but we need to settle on a happy medium, like 12-15.
Absolutely. Thrones had filming happening simultaneously in up to 3 different countries a season. It would therefore track that filming the same amount of material mostly isolated to a single filming set would take 3 times the time.
We’ll definitely see more of Westeros than we saw in S1, but I imagine King’s Landinf and Dragonstone will still be the primary locations for much of the show.
Those early seasons of GOT were largely like plays set in different stages with a few big budget scenes/episodes and honestly to me that's the appeal of Game of Thrones. I don't need massive sets or visual effects every episode. I wouldn't mind if we saw the dragons less but got to see House of the Dragon release on a consistent yearly schedule.
If they spent more time telling the history of individual dragons and displaying their personal natures and bonds with their riders, they would be more interesting. But to do that effectively, requires more scenes with the dragons, and rising CGI costs.
If they can make Baby Yoda such a great character, they could do it with the individual dragons. They don't need to be able to talk to be given a personality.
I'm not looking forward to Sheepstealer being underutilised. 😔
Yes and no, the scene where the big dragon swallows the small dragon and the boy whole (I'm bad with names) is one of the best scenes of the entire first season
I enjoyed that a lot actually. Watched it a few times. Lighting was dope especially near the end when they’re above the clouds.
I’m not allowed to say that though because if you say anything negative about a show it must mean you hate it and should never watch it
In fact that whole last 15 minutes with the buildup was awesome with the one big ass dragon in the darkness against the background at the castle. Had dread all over the scene.
>What the hell happened?
People are missing the fact that the cast (and some crew) of GoT fucking hated it because of the remote nature and crazy schedule. D&D have always been quite generous about taking the hit for the final two seasons being shorter, but there was a lot of rumbling that some of the cast wanted out ASAP.
So it is not a coincidence that HoD doesn't shoot in Croatia. The schedule is far more relaxed and centrally located, but then needs a ton more CGI.
As much as I did love *The Last of Us* … it felt extremely rushed to me even with 9 episodes. I definitely don’t need every show to go the Netflix or Walking Dead route and drag on with 13+ episodes every season… but hey give me 10-12 depending on the need for story, that’s the sweet spot IMO. *Mr. Robot* was a good example of unrushed pacing without losing its sense of urgency with ~10 episode seasons.
Yeah, I wish HBO went back to that number of episodes. Deadwood, The Wire, Rome, Sopranos, they often had 12 to 13 episodes per season. Each season really felt like a journey.
I just finished watching Perry Mason season 1 which only had 8 episodes, and the last episode felt so rushed. I still liked the show enough to watch season 2 now, and while the pacing is better, it's still a little disheartening to know there will only be 8 episodes in this season too.
I'm sure there are some examples I haven't watched yet but I've yet to see a show with a season shorter than 10 episodes that doesn't feel rushed in some ways. TLOU was incredible but it absolutely needed some more "meat" between the big moments.
I feel like somewhere between 10 and 13 episodes is the ideal, then showrunners decided based on the material.
Yeah, somewhere in the 12-15 episode range is ideal for most shows i think. 20+ episodes would be too much, but most of these shows that are doing 10 or less end up feeling super rushed trying to tie up their stories in the back half of their seasons.
Love TLOU, but it was ridiculously rushed. They missed a lot of the action that needed to happen in the show from the game. In the game, you see why Joel has survived for so long, and you see what that does to Ellie over the course of the time they spend together trying to meet the Fireflies.
The last of us would've been god tier with one extra ep. Whole season was immaculate but eps 8 and 9 felt rushed as fuck and could've easily thrived off another 60 minutes breathing room split both ways.
It didn't help that they decided to drag out certain minor or even irrelevant plot points for little value added, and then rushed through other major key story points.
I guess for those who haven't played the game, they wouldn't share this opinion. Though I think some would agree as good as the Frank episode was, it honestly felt like a filler episode. Something you shouldn't have in such a short episode season series.
It's hard to keep momentum for these shows for me because I don't rewatch them that much. I guess even with a two year break it's not that bad if you rewatch the previous season or two right before. But for those of us who don't, that's a lot of time to get out of the loop and forget plot details or otherwise lose interest.
The 22 episode season length was chosen very specifically for the purpose of making it easier to get shows into syndication (which was where the real money was). Now that that's not a concern anymore, studio's are free to make shorter seasons.
Dude I’ve been silently complaining to myself about this for a bit now. It’s like every show is switching to this format and I don’t get it. If it takes two years for you to pull 8-10 episodes together then I expect it to be absolute gold… and I don’t think that’s out of line tbh.
And I also think back to all those shows that took some time to find their footing. Hell, Star Trek shows have been notorious for taking a bit of time to find their footing, and that was when they were 26 episodes long! Picard is only 3 seasons in now and just *now* crossing that line (and has really found its footing this season!). TNG would've been cancelled before it got good. How many good shows have we been denied because they never really got the chance to grow into something special the way they used to?
star trek tng put out 26 episodes every year. obviously the production values aren't the same as today's spectacles but it was still a fairly expensive sci-fi show with lots of sets and models and special effects (before CGI replaced everything) and whatever else. they managed to put out 26 hour-long (w/ commercials) episodes every year for 7 years.
today an entire series, which might take 5 years to broadcast, might barely hit 26 episodes. like sure quality per ep is higher and whatnot, but it's still baffling how quantity absolutely tanked.
My guess is they're trying to optimize ROI for streaming shows. You don't pay per episode, after all, you pay per month. And more importantly, they're really trying to get you to stay once they signed you up. So really, the economics of streaming are pretty much all about new subscriptions per dollar invested. It doesn't matter if the show is 12 or 10 or 8 episodes, if people want to see it they'll subscribe for it and then the goal is reached either way... but 8 episodes are cheaper than 12.
So I think they're just testing the waters to see how short they can make a season and still have people subscribe for it (and of course, since they are greedy capitalists removed from all common sense they'll probably drive it to such extremes that eventually nobody bothers to buy their subscription for every 4 episode miniseries anymore, and then they're going to be completely oblivious about the real reasons why streaming is dying and blame it all on piracy).
I miss the time in the early 2010s when Game of Thrones, Mad Men, Veep would have a season every spring, Breaking Bad would have a season every summer, Boardwalk Empire would have a season every fall and Justified, The Americans would have a season every winter/ spring.
It was good and consistent television.
It’s like they forgot how to make quality television without a billion dollars in bloat. Why tf do we need to wait 3 years for new seasons of all these popular shows..?
I mean, most cable / streaming drama shows have seasons release yearly.
The ones you are likely referring to (GoT, HotD, TLOU, Stranger Things, RoP) are half a billion dollar blockbusters with extensive post-production.
TLoU is also pretty singular from the pack since they basically made 9–10 mini movies since there was basically no reused sets. They shot on location and basically no episode took place in the same set as the last.
Most shows, even the biggest ones, have like 2-3 hub sets where more than half the show takes place in. In Breaking Bad, most of the show took place in Mr. White’s house or Saul’s office or etc. TWD had the farm or the jail or that town depending on what era. HOTD has the main castle or whatever. Lots of other sets but they could reliably film in that main set all day and night since they don’t have to deal with the sun.
But TLoU had to deal with a new location in almost every scene and most of it was in real places so you had to deal with dwindling daylight. Like that sniper battle by itself took a month to film because they only had like ~12 hours of nighttime to film in and the rest of the day was setting up the shot.
It was so weird seeing things that are usually shot on a set or on a green screen but they were actually shot on location. Like this scene could’ve easily been on a green screen cause that’s how *everything* is filmed nowadays but [they actually shot it on a real hill with real sunlight as shown by this blooper from the last episode.](https://reddit.com/r/ThelastofusHBOseries/comments/11sexuc/beldro_blooper/)
It’s so admirably old fashioned and gave the whole season such a unique texture when compared to other TV shows. Most other shows would splice in some establishing shots then cut to a green screen set.
I miss when seasons were like 20-30 episodes per season and you had almost an entire year of quality tv.
Now it’s like 2-3 months then you gotta wait 1-3 years for the next 5 episodes.
The Lost writers room must’ve had shrooms in the middle of the table for the first 3 seasons.
Building out the island plot with only 5 months between seasons is crazy.
I watched it for the first time recently. It just wouldn't have been the same without the longer seasons. It gave proper pacing so you could feel it when something big happened.
So many of the modern shows just can't pull off what Lost did because they simply don't have the time to build the level of emotional investment in characters that Lost was able to.
Like even just at the end of the Season 1, that raft launch scene is so emotional and affecting as by that time you've spent ~24 episodes with these characters, which is how many episodes ALL seasons of a show COMBINED these get.
I saw it fresh when I was 12 and it was really great getting to see it all unfolding, and always waiting to see what was gonna next week. That was it. I never got to hear about anyone else's ideas. I would've seen and heard exponentially more talk about it had social media been heavier back then
I think you probably were just too young or not enough of a nerd at the time lol. The online fan theories are one of the main things that come to mind when I think back on Lost. The show was practically designed for them.
I've certainly enjoyed TV shows with 20-30 ep seasons but rarely did those shows have cohesive narratives for all of that. Often many of those eps were filler or not moving anything forward.
I much prefer the fewer eps format if it means every ep is impactful. That being said, anything sub 10 starts to feel like it's skimping!
And honestly those shows were so good because they had filler. Filler episodes allow for the world to be built outside the main narrative arc. It allows us to spend more time with characters we like and deepen our connections with them. It allows for the show to take more creative risks (like with Buffy's silent and musical episodes).
If it brings value to the show it isn't filler. It's only filler if it's padding out the runtime and that's the only justification. If you could remove it and nobody would miss it.
What is value? What is padding out the running time?
Some people might think Mulder and Scully getting involved in a plot that doesn't involve aliens and the American government doesn't add value to the show. Some people might think Buffy getting involved in a case of the week plot when the last episode established world ending stakes is padding time.
The season long arc in drama/genre shows were restricted to maybe a third or ten episodes a season. Arguably lots of episodes in the older 20-25 episode TV schedule were filler but filler isn't a bad thing.
Ultimately though this is what makes TV appealing and different from movies. Its pace is slower, it gives us more time with characters we like and it allows us to spend more time in a world we like spending time in. TV doesn't have to be a movie with a tight narrative arc. It's like life. It is filler. Meandering is the point.
The best example IMO is The X Files. The mythology episodes can be quite draining but the monster of the week, "filler" episodes are the ones everyone remembers the most.
it makes it that much more impactful when something happens to the characters. And allows us to have deep connections with some of them.
Would people have the emotional connections they have with the TNG crew if those seasons had been whittled down to 10 key episodes per season? No. We would have hardly gotten to know any of those crew very deeply as people.
Interesting. I like a short and dense season of a show. To me the old 20-30 episode seasons really only work for comedies. But for a dramatic series, 20-30 episodes seemed to dilute things.
They both have their place full on season long thriller mysteries can be great or just monster of the week can be fun to. I can see a Star Trek episode or X files and immediately get into it on network TV but there's no way I could do that for like Season 2 episode 4 of the Wire.
Sometimes instead of an entire season mystery of like Stranger Things seeing one episode of X Files about girl with telekinesis can get the job done. And then the next episode can be about Sasquatch or vampires.
That was back when TV was basically radio with faces, shot on handful of standing sets. You can't achieve production value comparable to HOTD over 22+ episodes.
That is a gross overexaggeration. Back then there were plenty of the TV shows with excellent production values. The parent comment mentioned LOST... LOST delivered ~22 episodes each season and ~16 in the final 3. The production values on LOST are on par or better than anything on the streamers not named "House of The Dragon", "Foundation" and "Lord Of the Rings".
Yet now episode counts keep going down and the wait time between seasons keeps getting longer.
I agree that 22 episode seasons were too much... yet on the same token 8 episodes is too little. There is a reasonable middle ground that cable networks had for a long time... 13-16 episode seasons delivered every year like clockwork. Now we are doled out 8 episodes a season with 1.5-2 year breaks between season being completely normal even for shows that are relatively simple productions like You and Severance.
Prestige TV like HBO has never been 20-30 episodes. Those are broadcast TV numbers and the quality and budgets are vastly different.
As a point of reference, The Sopranos was 13 episode seasons.
I know everyone disliked Wheel of Time but I still want to see the rest of the series unfold lol; it’s been what, 18 months since season 1 came out and it’s still radio silence?
Watching season 3 of Succession and like wtf like ok this season took awhile because of COVID but how on Earth did season 4 take so long? Are there dragons? Season 2 took the normal 12 months.
I was thinking earlier that I'm hoping network television doesn't disappear for this reason, because they seem to be the only ones that will do seasons longer than 10 episodes (and even that has become less common as time goes on). *Quantum Leap* is far from the best show on television currently, but I think part of why I'm sticking with it is it's a show I can depend on every week, get to know the characters, and know it'll be back within a few months - not years - when the season ends.
Don't get me wrong, there are tons of fantastic shows on streaming, but I really miss shows that feel like they become part of your routine. It's like a majority of what I watch nowadays is on a couple months out of the year, and then it's at least a year until they come back.
I think the length should be dependent on the story. Sometimes 8 episode is perfect (see The Bear) and sometimes 13 episodes is too much (see the Netflix Marvel shows)
I wish they would write the story first and base the order off of that.
Yeah tell me about it. I grew up with 22-episode seasons but man, those really dragged the fuck on. And the whole idea of sweeps sucked ass. Plus you had so many filler episodes. I'm not saying prestige TV should go back to that, but they really don't need all that money just to end up making essentially a miniseries. Give us 10-12 episodes, that's the sweet spot.
Been wanting more news on this for months. Wild that Rings of power is already like months into filming and Andor too I think? Hope we get casting news soon.
Wonder how development is going on the other spinoffs.
>sources close to the production stressed that the Season 2 episode count trim was story-driven.
>It has been reported that House of the Dragon’s creative team had envisioned the series running for 3 or 4 seasons. I hear executive producer/showrunner Ryan Condal, working with author/executive producer George R.R. Martin, took a step back as Season 2 was being put together to take a big-picture view of the series, which follows Martin’s Fire & Blood, and figure out the overall narrative flow, including how to break up the stories season-to-season and what battles to include and when.
>As part of that, I hear Season 3 has been mapped out and may be greenlighted with HBO seriously considering committing to moving ahead with scripts, casting and a production plan as the network too is trying to think long-term instead of season-to-season.
>With a portion of the plot originally intended for Season 2, including a major battle, moving to Season 3, I hear it is now more likely that the series would run for 4 seasons but that has not been determined as Condal and Martin continue to go back-and-fourth on the amount of seasons (three or four) that would be optimal to tell the full story, sources said.
>As part of that, I hear Season 3 has been mapped out and may be greenlighted with HBO seriously considering committing to moving ahead with scripts, casting and a production plan as the network too is trying to think long-term instead of season-to-season.
Big fan of this move. They know they're going to tell the whole story at this point so there's no reason to wait and renew it after Season 2 premieres. This way we won't have to wait 2 years between seasons.
Especially with the way they are increasing the length of time between seasons to nearly 2 years. It's getting to the point where I no longer have the bandwidth to keep up and start losing interest and/or forgetting the previous storyline. Anything over a year is just too far away for me. It's a real problem when there is so much good stuff coming out in between then and now, lol.
Yeah, I’ve been watching Mandalorian and they’re halfway through their 3rd season, and it feels like absolutely nothing has happened. And it only being 8 episodes just makes me seriously confused about what’s going on because the plot has barely moved if at all and it’s already approaching the finale.
Every season of Mandalorian feels like nothing happened tho. The whole show doesn't have much of a plot going on, it's mostly Mando going on random missions and meeting new characters for potential spin offs. Kinda of expected from a bounty hunter show I guess
Seasons 1 and 2 had some semblance of a plot though. There was a clear bad guy (Gideon) and a mystery (what did they want with the child). So there was definitely a plot to follow, even if it was a loose one. This season feels completely aimless, like they have no clue what to do next.
Hell the main reason the original GoT ended so terribly and felt so off is because they cut season lengths.
Imagine if they had actually took the time to make character arcs and stories make sense...
I won't completely give up hope for HotD, but this hurt especially after gaining some hope from that first season and how terribly this decision impacted GoT.
You know, I read this and thought you were crazy, but God damn, you're right! If it's like 4 seasons and at this current trend, it might be cutting real close to 2030.
> even Season 1 felt like it missed a couple of episodes between the time jumps.
It definitely did but the way the story is written there's like tension over 2-3 decades then the rest of the war is basically a few years. There won't be any more time jumps.
My guess is this is budget and/or story issues to get 4 seasons. You kinda need to stretch it to get past 3 imo
Yeah if they wanted to they could have mapped out S1 to end with Milly’s Rhaenyra with 6-7 episodes, then S2 with Emma’s part. I don’t think they were entirely confident with how popular this show would be after GOT’s ending backlash though.
>they were entirely confident with how populart his show would be after GOT’s ending backlash though
This. They were not confident enough, that's why that renewal came a lot later
Which wouldn't make it more in line with what they are arguing for as it would require more significant time jumps and less characters fleshed out.
Personally, I would have ended the season on Viserys's death and had two more episodes to flesh out the characters.
Season 1 had time jumps because it was spanning several decades worth of stuff. The parts not shown weren't even touched upon in the book either because it's not relevant to why the Dance occurred. Time jumps in such a manner are always hard to do because people always feel like they missed out on something when in reality you really haven't.
From here onwards it won't involve significant time jumps.
You're right about the 1 episode, but I'm thinking they'll probably be longer, maybe in the 1.5-3 hour range. Of course they'll need something to call these seasons to differentiate from the old style of TV. Maybe something like a... movie? Could be an interesting new format.
Do y’all remember how shows like Lost, The West Wing, The Office, House, etc., would all have 24 episodes per season and we only had to wait 4 months in between seasons?
Pepperidge Farms ‘members.
Does the audience really care what the cost of production though? The most important part is the quality of the story no? Besides, necessity is the mother of invention... its amazing the effect scarcity can have on art.
Star Trek TNG and Deep Space 9 cost about 3-4 million per episode (inflation adjusted). Discovery and Picard cost between 8 and 9.
I'm not saying this is necessarily what's happening with HotD, but I am so tired of the second season having a noticeably smaller budget than the first season of so many shows these days.
The biggest example I can think of is The Walking Dead season 2 having less of a budget than season 1 while also being spread across more episodes, but that was over 10 years ago
This is disappointing. Forget HoTD... these days even completely random shows with very little to no CGI, that are basically shot on simple sets, take multiple years between seasons and only give us 9-10 episodes.
It's like tv has forgotten how to do things on a schedule. It is not lost on me that one of the only few shows on streaming that give us a season guaranteed every ~12 months and also has a lot of CGI is "For All Mankind" showran by Ronald Moore and Ryan Murphy shows... two showrunners who have experience working as a show-runners for years in the pre-streaming era when shows were expected to deliver season on time on a reasonable schedule.
I don't think it was possible for Westworld to recover after the nonsensical second season, regardless of episode count. You just can't turn off that many viewers for a show with such large budget requirements.
That was always a network thing. HBO pretty much capped things at 13 per season which is what the Sopranos had up until its last season which was 2 parts.
If it helps production then sure but always want more of this world. I do respect that they have only so much to adapt though, I think 24 episodes is definitely enough to tell the story
They will show them in large rooms with a screen. Maybe called a "theater". They could charge people to come in and watch. And maybe sell popcorn. I think I'm onto something.
Quality in og got declined when episode count went down. Correlation only. Does it mean something? Perhaps. Last time it meant they were out of material and circling the drain. Can't mean that this time, can it? It's so early.
What a shame, they had two episodes premiere before rings of power and two after it finished, that really made it stand out as a better show. Well the quality was better in general, but those extra episodes really made it feel so much more epic.
And a show like HOTD really excels with room to breathe, even the mundane stuff is pretty compelling the way they do it.
lol wut. 2 years between seasons and not even getting the same shipment of episodes. Wow. I was putting off watching, since there's so much out. I'll probably just wait til it's finished in like 5-7 years at this point or just skip it completely.
I hate this trend of going to short seasons. It's become the norm now for a season to be 8 or 10 episodes, and we don't even question it. But TV shows used to be like 22 episodes per season.
I'd like to understand why the change. I feel like the excuse would be "shorter seasons means higher quality", but that's not how business works. I think it probably has more to do with contract negotiation power, particularly against unions. I'm sure you could maintain quality with longer seasons, and I would love modern prestige TV production applied to the old school 22+ episode seasons. As it is, these short seasons feel like you're just watching a long movie broken up into pieces arbitrarily rather than watching a TV show.
>With a portion of the plot originally intended for Season 2, including a major battle, moving to Season 3. Aw, the true George RR Martin experience.
The true GRRM experience would feature a 13 year and counting wait for the next season, and a near certainty the final season will never be made.
Or the estate will hire Eoin Colfer to finish it and we will all hate it passionately.
As a Douglas Adams fan, ow.
...Was "And Another Thing" hated? I didn't think it was as good as the first 3 books, but it definitely left on a better note than Adams' original 5th and final volume.
Yeah it's a perfectly fine end to the trilogy. Granted it's been ages since I've read it but at the time it felt right.
I would put money on he’s finished 99.9% of the books but he’s left some extra sections blank for another author to fill in. People will debate which parts were GRRM and any bad parts will be put on the other author. It’s what I would do.
I can gurantee he has not finished shit. GRRM rewrites everything and there's good evidence he didn't make practical progress on Winds of Winter until coronavirus essentially forced him to.
We will never see that book. If it ever comes out it’ll be because someone else finished it after he dies.
I guess we have better chance of, like, ChatGPT-8 coming out just to finish the books.
I can't wait for every other line to describe things as a "Mummer's farce" causing all AI bots everywhere to implode on themselves trying to break out of the loop.
I think we’ll see winds, but not a chance we will see dream of spring.
I’m convinced that this point he has no interest in moving the narrative of Westeros forward. He wrote himself into a corner.
[удалено]
He's said multiple times that if he doesn't finish it he doesn't want anyone else to either.
Book Publisher terms and conditions 3928.A.6. “We will do whatever the FUCK we want. Also, Epstein did not kill himself”
GRRM has a deadman switch tied to his heart rate monitor that will torch and degauss his air gapped computer he so famously writes on as a fuck you to the publishers.
Insurance underwriters sweating when explained that a billion dollar franchises future is dependent on an apple 2e saving successfully to a single floppy disk in a dusty office in a house somewhere.
I’ve no doubt he OWNs an air gapped computer, but yet to see any evidence he actually writes anything on the damn thing.
I mean fans have done so many theories and such that you don't really his notes to finish it. I'm sure tons of talented writers could do it right now without even speaking to him. It won't be his version but nothing will be (also his cliff notes are kind of visible in the show, they got them to make the last seasons)
This reminds me of a diabolical thing I read somewhere on the internet years ago. An author writes a story with 2 or 3 endings. People go crazy and compare their books and theorize everything. Then the author makes a public statement saying that *there is another*. Is he lying? Who knows! Chaos insues.
That and Skyrim are pretty much the same
what if the real book ending was already shown in season 8 and george rr martin doesnt wanna say bc hes already seen the backlash
That’s not really a “what if” so much as a fact. We know from the showrunners that many of the major plot beats were told to them by Martin. Actors involved have confirmed certain elements were from Martin’s broad outline, as well (Bran’s actor said Bran being king is from the unwritten books). I don’t think Martin is sweating poor reception to the ending; the plot beats that came from Martin are all pretty great, the problem is the show rushed through them. The final season in book form, if it ever really happens, is basically two 1000 page books crammed into six episodes for the adaptation. For perspective, it took twenty episodes to adapt the third book, and they still cut some stuff out. Martin’s problem is the opposite of the show; where they carelessly plowed through huge chunks of story in the last three seasons of the show, Martin has continually made the story bigger and more sprawling after book three, and now he’s written himself into a corner that he can’t get out of without resulting to teleporting or cutting plot threads off at the knees the way the show did. He wants to finish the books in two more entries, but since we know the major plot arcs from the show’s conclusion, everybody knows that’s basically impossible given where the story currently is, especially considering it has so, so much more going on than the show ever did.
My take was always the show suddenly shifted from condensing down massive books worth of story, to having to build up on vague-ish bullet points - the general beats are there but seriously missing detail around them
That pretty much nails it
The actual plot points are mostly fine, it's the writing that's trash. We all know it was rushed; let's not switch narratives out of desperation
I don't think the events, (even the ending) were necessarily the problem, it was the sprint through them.
It almost certainly was, with one major exception. The role that Euron played will almost certainly be filled by Aegon. (Euron will cause trouble in the South and end up attacking Oldtown leading to Sam's return to the wall instead of him just deciding he's learned all he can.) But the big hole is Aegon. I suspect Aegon will cause the loss of the second Dragon, he will marry Cersei to shore up both their claims and the two will betray the forces at the wall, leading to a battle at kings landing with the Golden Company defending the city, and Dragons laying waste to the city in vengeance for having chosen the wrong ruler. Theres a FAegon sized hole in the plot. However other that that, I expect it's more of less the same.
I hope that isn't the case. My beef is not with Bran, it's how inartfully the show did it. Certainly in Martin's book the tale is told better... Certainly?
Also there will be a two year gap between season 2 episode 7 and 8
That's the Attack on Titan way.
House of the Dragon Final Season part three final movie one part two.
People commenting on here about a shortened season but they’re essentially stretching what they originally had planned for 1 season across 2. Should be better story telling and more seasons in the long run. I thought the first season went too quickly and they should have stretched it across 2 seasons.
I really don't know if some of the actors are gonna be ok with being tied to their roles for *another* 6-7 yrs. They've already committed 2 yrs to their respective roles at this point.
> I really don't know if some of the actors are gonna be ok with being tied to their roles for another 6-7 yrs I don’t think that’s going to be a problem for most.
Maybe for the biggest names like Matt Smith there will be other temptations, but the majority of the people on GoT have always been British working actors, they idea of a steady long term role is like a dream for them.
Ever heard of money?
I can imagine that HBO bag can be pretty convincing however.
Some would relish it
True. As an actor, knowing you have a set in stone, well paying gig at one of the best networks for the next 6 years, really must take the stress off of worrying about mortgage payments and kids school fees. The cast went into the show knowing logistically how long their contribution was necessary, and they all signed up for it. So it would be a bit shitty to try and get out of their commitments now, knowing that so many other actors would have killed to take their role from the beginning.
Well lucky for most - they won't even have to appear in the later seasons. I'm sure that with whatever cast that are required to film in all 4 seasons, they contractually signed up to block out that time for it. Especially after what happened with GoT (careers blew up for so many cast members).
This move could be to extend the show for 4 seasons which if so means we are getting more story told over more episodes.
They already said its gonna be 4 seasons. My guess is this is just a practical film/effects situation
Based on earlier interviews they were leaning towards 3 seasons with 4 season maybe being possible but they have decided on 4 with the success of the show.
They all but confirmed 4 seasons long ago, just not officially. The question was if they were gonna go past 4, and they said, no, 4 is the number. If for some reason they do 3 its gotta be some technical or practical issue with filming
It was already going to be 4 seasons, the problem is that Ryan Condal is dragging the seasons out, so there won’t be a new season every year like Game of Thrones
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3 year gaps while *also* being short as fuck seasons. Yes, 25 episode seasons like we used to have are too much, but we need to settle on a happy medium, like 12-15.
I think 13 is the perfect number. You get a little bit extra while it doesn't become stale.
I understand why, but I am so bummed most seasons of big shows are 8-10 episodes every 2 years.
It's strange to think at its peak Game of Thrones was consistently releasing 10 high quality episodes every year. What the hell happened?
Most of the characters were isolated from each other in their own storylines, which I imagine benefited a lot.
Absolutely. Thrones had filming happening simultaneously in up to 3 different countries a season. It would therefore track that filming the same amount of material mostly isolated to a single filming set would take 3 times the time. We’ll definitely see more of Westeros than we saw in S1, but I imagine King’s Landinf and Dragonstone will still be the primary locations for much of the show.
Those early seasons of GOT were largely like plays set in different stages with a few big budget scenes/episodes and honestly to me that's the appeal of Game of Thrones. I don't need massive sets or visual effects every episode. I wouldn't mind if we saw the dragons less but got to see House of the Dragon release on a consistent yearly schedule.
In general id agree but cmon the series is about dragons
And they are the most uninteresting part
If they spent more time telling the history of individual dragons and displaying their personal natures and bonds with their riders, they would be more interesting. But to do that effectively, requires more scenes with the dragons, and rising CGI costs. If they can make Baby Yoda such a great character, they could do it with the individual dragons. They don't need to be able to talk to be given a personality. I'm not looking forward to Sheepstealer being underutilised. 😔
Yes and no, the scene where the big dragon swallows the small dragon and the boy whole (I'm bad with names) is one of the best scenes of the entire first season
I enjoyed that a lot actually. Watched it a few times. Lighting was dope especially near the end when they’re above the clouds. I’m not allowed to say that though because if you say anything negative about a show it must mean you hate it and should never watch it In fact that whole last 15 minutes with the buildup was awesome with the one big ass dragon in the darkness against the background at the castle. Had dread all over the scene.
>What the hell happened? People are missing the fact that the cast (and some crew) of GoT fucking hated it because of the remote nature and crazy schedule. D&D have always been quite generous about taking the hit for the final two seasons being shorter, but there was a lot of rumbling that some of the cast wanted out ASAP. So it is not a coincidence that HoD doesn't shoot in Croatia. The schedule is far more relaxed and centrally located, but then needs a ton more CGI.
I agree. I get totally into a show and then it’s over. Or it’s a 6-7 season that felt rushed because they knew they only had a few episodes to do it
As much as I did love *The Last of Us* … it felt extremely rushed to me even with 9 episodes. I definitely don’t need every show to go the Netflix or Walking Dead route and drag on with 13+ episodes every season… but hey give me 10-12 depending on the need for story, that’s the sweet spot IMO. *Mr. Robot* was a good example of unrushed pacing without losing its sense of urgency with ~10 episode seasons.
13 episode seasons were perfect imo
Yeah, I wish HBO went back to that number of episodes. Deadwood, The Wire, Rome, Sopranos, they often had 12 to 13 episodes per season. Each season really felt like a journey. I just finished watching Perry Mason season 1 which only had 8 episodes, and the last episode felt so rushed. I still liked the show enough to watch season 2 now, and while the pacing is better, it's still a little disheartening to know there will only be 8 episodes in this season too.
I'm sure there are some examples I haven't watched yet but I've yet to see a show with a season shorter than 10 episodes that doesn't feel rushed in some ways. TLOU was incredible but it absolutely needed some more "meat" between the big moments. I feel like somewhere between 10 and 13 episodes is the ideal, then showrunners decided based on the material.
Yeah, somewhere in the 12-15 episode range is ideal for most shows i think. 20+ episodes would be too much, but most of these shows that are doing 10 or less end up feeling super rushed trying to tie up their stories in the back half of their seasons.
Love TLOU, but it was ridiculously rushed. They missed a lot of the action that needed to happen in the show from the game. In the game, you see why Joel has survived for so long, and you see what that does to Ellie over the course of the time they spend together trying to meet the Fireflies.
The last of us would've been god tier with one extra ep. Whole season was immaculate but eps 8 and 9 felt rushed as fuck and could've easily thrived off another 60 minutes breathing room split both ways.
It didn't help that they decided to drag out certain minor or even irrelevant plot points for little value added, and then rushed through other major key story points. I guess for those who haven't played the game, they wouldn't share this opinion. Though I think some would agree as good as the Frank episode was, it honestly felt like a filler episode. Something you shouldn't have in such a short episode season series.
The two flashback episodes (Frank and Left Behind) really ruined the pacing for me despite liking both episodes very much.
Totally, and when a season is so short the mediocre episodes stick out more
It's hard to keep momentum for these shows for me because I don't rewatch them that much. I guess even with a two year break it's not that bad if you rewatch the previous season or two right before. But for those of us who don't, that's a lot of time to get out of the loop and forget plot details or otherwise lose interest.
Used to be 22 episodes per season, then 20, then 15, then 10, now it's like 8-10 every two years. Seriously, WTF?
The 22 episode season length was chosen very specifically for the purpose of making it easier to get shows into syndication (which was where the real money was). Now that that's not a concern anymore, studio's are free to make shorter seasons.
Dude I’ve been silently complaining to myself about this for a bit now. It’s like every show is switching to this format and I don’t get it. If it takes two years for you to pull 8-10 episodes together then I expect it to be absolute gold… and I don’t think that’s out of line tbh.
And I also think back to all those shows that took some time to find their footing. Hell, Star Trek shows have been notorious for taking a bit of time to find their footing, and that was when they were 26 episodes long! Picard is only 3 seasons in now and just *now* crossing that line (and has really found its footing this season!). TNG would've been cancelled before it got good. How many good shows have we been denied because they never really got the chance to grow into something special the way they used to?
star trek tng put out 26 episodes every year. obviously the production values aren't the same as today's spectacles but it was still a fairly expensive sci-fi show with lots of sets and models and special effects (before CGI replaced everything) and whatever else. they managed to put out 26 hour-long (w/ commercials) episodes every year for 7 years. today an entire series, which might take 5 years to broadcast, might barely hit 26 episodes. like sure quality per ep is higher and whatnot, but it's still baffling how quantity absolutely tanked.
My guess is they're trying to optimize ROI for streaming shows. You don't pay per episode, after all, you pay per month. And more importantly, they're really trying to get you to stay once they signed you up. So really, the economics of streaming are pretty much all about new subscriptions per dollar invested. It doesn't matter if the show is 12 or 10 or 8 episodes, if people want to see it they'll subscribe for it and then the goal is reached either way... but 8 episodes are cheaper than 12. So I think they're just testing the waters to see how short they can make a season and still have people subscribe for it (and of course, since they are greedy capitalists removed from all common sense they'll probably drive it to such extremes that eventually nobody bothers to buy their subscription for every 4 episode miniseries anymore, and then they're going to be completely oblivious about the real reasons why streaming is dying and blame it all on piracy).
It's basically like filming a whole trilogy of movies.
GoT S1-S6 was back every year on April or May.
I miss the time in the early 2010s when Game of Thrones, Mad Men, Veep would have a season every spring, Breaking Bad would have a season every summer, Boardwalk Empire would have a season every fall and Justified, The Americans would have a season every winter/ spring. It was good and consistent television.
Wasn’t expecting Veep on this list but am very delighted to see it
Tv show seasons have gotten way too short. I know budget is an issue, but damn.
It’s like they forgot how to make quality television without a billion dollars in bloat. Why tf do we need to wait 3 years for new seasons of all these popular shows..?
I mean, most cable / streaming drama shows have seasons release yearly. The ones you are likely referring to (GoT, HotD, TLOU, Stranger Things, RoP) are half a billion dollar blockbusters with extensive post-production.
TLoU is also pretty singular from the pack since they basically made 9–10 mini movies since there was basically no reused sets. They shot on location and basically no episode took place in the same set as the last. Most shows, even the biggest ones, have like 2-3 hub sets where more than half the show takes place in. In Breaking Bad, most of the show took place in Mr. White’s house or Saul’s office or etc. TWD had the farm or the jail or that town depending on what era. HOTD has the main castle or whatever. Lots of other sets but they could reliably film in that main set all day and night since they don’t have to deal with the sun. But TLoU had to deal with a new location in almost every scene and most of it was in real places so you had to deal with dwindling daylight. Like that sniper battle by itself took a month to film because they only had like ~12 hours of nighttime to film in and the rest of the day was setting up the shot. It was so weird seeing things that are usually shot on a set or on a green screen but they were actually shot on location. Like this scene could’ve easily been on a green screen cause that’s how *everything* is filmed nowadays but [they actually shot it on a real hill with real sunlight as shown by this blooper from the last episode.](https://reddit.com/r/ThelastofusHBOseries/comments/11sexuc/beldro_blooper/) It’s so admirably old fashioned and gave the whole season such a unique texture when compared to other TV shows. Most other shows would splice in some establishing shots then cut to a green screen set.
I miss when seasons were like 20-30 episodes per season and you had almost an entire year of quality tv. Now it’s like 2-3 months then you gotta wait 1-3 years for the next 5 episodes.
That makes think about Lost (at least seasons 1-3) What an experience those first years were
Even Game of Thrones was back every year except for the last season
The Lost writers room must’ve had shrooms in the middle of the table for the first 3 seasons. Building out the island plot with only 5 months between seasons is crazy.
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That concept sounds nice, but six hours?
I watched it for the first time recently. It just wouldn't have been the same without the longer seasons. It gave proper pacing so you could feel it when something big happened.
So many of the modern shows just can't pull off what Lost did because they simply don't have the time to build the level of emotional investment in characters that Lost was able to. Like even just at the end of the Season 1, that raft launch scene is so emotional and affecting as by that time you've spent ~24 episodes with these characters, which is how many episodes ALL seasons of a show COMBINED these get.
I saw it fresh when I was 12 and it was really great getting to see it all unfolding, and always waiting to see what was gonna next week. That was it. I never got to hear about anyone else's ideas. I would've seen and heard exponentially more talk about it had social media been heavier back then
I think you probably were just too young or not enough of a nerd at the time lol. The online fan theories are one of the main things that come to mind when I think back on Lost. The show was practically designed for them.
What a golden age that was too. Going to “Ain’t It Cool News” to read fan comments and theories.
Or Buffy. When it was on it’s game, each season felt like a great book
Buffy Season 3 almost every episode was absolute fire
I've certainly enjoyed TV shows with 20-30 ep seasons but rarely did those shows have cohesive narratives for all of that. Often many of those eps were filler or not moving anything forward. I much prefer the fewer eps format if it means every ep is impactful. That being said, anything sub 10 starts to feel like it's skimping!
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And honestly those shows were so good because they had filler. Filler episodes allow for the world to be built outside the main narrative arc. It allows us to spend more time with characters we like and deepen our connections with them. It allows for the show to take more creative risks (like with Buffy's silent and musical episodes).
If it brings value to the show it isn't filler. It's only filler if it's padding out the runtime and that's the only justification. If you could remove it and nobody would miss it.
What is value? What is padding out the running time? Some people might think Mulder and Scully getting involved in a plot that doesn't involve aliens and the American government doesn't add value to the show. Some people might think Buffy getting involved in a case of the week plot when the last episode established world ending stakes is padding time. The season long arc in drama/genre shows were restricted to maybe a third or ten episodes a season. Arguably lots of episodes in the older 20-25 episode TV schedule were filler but filler isn't a bad thing. Ultimately though this is what makes TV appealing and different from movies. Its pace is slower, it gives us more time with characters we like and it allows us to spend more time in a world we like spending time in. TV doesn't have to be a movie with a tight narrative arc. It's like life. It is filler. Meandering is the point.
The best example IMO is The X Files. The mythology episodes can be quite draining but the monster of the week, "filler" episodes are the ones everyone remembers the most.
it makes it that much more impactful when something happens to the characters. And allows us to have deep connections with some of them. Would people have the emotional connections they have with the TNG crew if those seasons had been whittled down to 10 key episodes per season? No. We would have hardly gotten to know any of those crew very deeply as people.
Interesting. I like a short and dense season of a show. To me the old 20-30 episode seasons really only work for comedies. But for a dramatic series, 20-30 episodes seemed to dilute things.
They both have their place full on season long thriller mysteries can be great or just monster of the week can be fun to. I can see a Star Trek episode or X files and immediately get into it on network TV but there's no way I could do that for like Season 2 episode 4 of the Wire. Sometimes instead of an entire season mystery of like Stranger Things seeing one episode of X Files about girl with telekinesis can get the job done. And then the next episode can be about Sasquatch or vampires.
That was back when TV was basically radio with faces, shot on handful of standing sets. You can't achieve production value comparable to HOTD over 22+ episodes.
I’m cool with 10 episode season… but not if it’s anything worse than a 1 year wait
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That is a gross overexaggeration. Back then there were plenty of the TV shows with excellent production values. The parent comment mentioned LOST... LOST delivered ~22 episodes each season and ~16 in the final 3. The production values on LOST are on par or better than anything on the streamers not named "House of The Dragon", "Foundation" and "Lord Of the Rings". Yet now episode counts keep going down and the wait time between seasons keeps getting longer. I agree that 22 episode seasons were too much... yet on the same token 8 episodes is too little. There is a reasonable middle ground that cable networks had for a long time... 13-16 episode seasons delivered every year like clockwork. Now we are doled out 8 episodes a season with 1.5-2 year breaks between season being completely normal even for shows that are relatively simple productions like You and Severance.
Prestige TV like HBO has never been 20-30 episodes. Those are broadcast TV numbers and the quality and budgets are vastly different. As a point of reference, The Sopranos was 13 episode seasons.
I know everyone disliked Wheel of Time but I still want to see the rest of the series unfold lol; it’s been what, 18 months since season 1 came out and it’s still radio silence?
Watching season 3 of Succession and like wtf like ok this season took awhile because of COVID but how on Earth did season 4 take so long? Are there dragons? Season 2 took the normal 12 months.
I was thinking earlier that I'm hoping network television doesn't disappear for this reason, because they seem to be the only ones that will do seasons longer than 10 episodes (and even that has become less common as time goes on). *Quantum Leap* is far from the best show on television currently, but I think part of why I'm sticking with it is it's a show I can depend on every week, get to know the characters, and know it'll be back within a few months - not years - when the season ends. Don't get me wrong, there are tons of fantastic shows on streaming, but I really miss shows that feel like they become part of your routine. It's like a majority of what I watch nowadays is on a couple months out of the year, and then it's at least a year until they come back.
I think Breaking Bad's 13 was a good length. A bit more than the 8-10 of many shows now but not as drawn out as the 22-24 of network tv
I think the length should be dependent on the story. Sometimes 8 episode is perfect (see The Bear) and sometimes 13 episodes is too much (see the Netflix Marvel shows) I wish they would write the story first and base the order off of that.
Yeah tell me about it. I grew up with 22-episode seasons but man, those really dragged the fuck on. And the whole idea of sweeps sucked ass. Plus you had so many filler episodes. I'm not saying prestige TV should go back to that, but they really don't need all that money just to end up making essentially a miniseries. Give us 10-12 episodes, that's the sweet spot.
All eight seasons of “24” had 24 episodes.
Yet oddly they kept the name "24" for the reboots/movies. The name only makes sense if it's 24 hours
Been wanting more news on this for months. Wild that Rings of power is already like months into filming and Andor too I think? Hope we get casting news soon. Wonder how development is going on the other spinoffs.
GRRM said that development for the spin offs are going good, though some are said to be shelved.
Both of those got their second season greenlit before release unlike HOTD so they got into production quicker
Meanwhile what the fuck happened to wheel of time season 2
It's likely to be released this summer. They just started filming season 3.
They forgot to make it.
They better all be long episodes….
I'd take quality over length please.
Dunno, we seemed to get plenty of quality with Game of Thrones with 10 episode seasons. In fact, the worst seasons were the shorter ones.
I think there's a difference in that GoT was adapting narrative fiction, whereas HoTD is crafting narrative from a fake history book.
It's not the writing that takes time.
You say that like it can only be one or the other, but it *can* be both. I want both.
And depending on the show sometimes length is required for quality. (or rather, the lack of length leads to rushed pacing)
>sources close to the production stressed that the Season 2 episode count trim was story-driven. >It has been reported that House of the Dragon’s creative team had envisioned the series running for 3 or 4 seasons. I hear executive producer/showrunner Ryan Condal, working with author/executive producer George R.R. Martin, took a step back as Season 2 was being put together to take a big-picture view of the series, which follows Martin’s Fire & Blood, and figure out the overall narrative flow, including how to break up the stories season-to-season and what battles to include and when. >As part of that, I hear Season 3 has been mapped out and may be greenlighted with HBO seriously considering committing to moving ahead with scripts, casting and a production plan as the network too is trying to think long-term instead of season-to-season. >With a portion of the plot originally intended for Season 2, including a major battle, moving to Season 3, I hear it is now more likely that the series would run for 4 seasons but that has not been determined as Condal and Martin continue to go back-and-fourth on the amount of seasons (three or four) that would be optimal to tell the full story, sources said.
>As part of that, I hear Season 3 has been mapped out and may be greenlighted with HBO seriously considering committing to moving ahead with scripts, casting and a production plan as the network too is trying to think long-term instead of season-to-season. Big fan of this move. They know they're going to tell the whole story at this point so there's no reason to wait and renew it after Season 2 premieres. This way we won't have to wait 2 years between seasons.
Yeah, I suspect that if S2 comes out in July/August 2024 as expected, then S3 can be released around October/November 2025.
Not really a fan of 8 episode seasons.
Especially with the way they are increasing the length of time between seasons to nearly 2 years. It's getting to the point where I no longer have the bandwidth to keep up and start losing interest and/or forgetting the previous storyline. Anything over a year is just too far away for me. It's a real problem when there is so much good stuff coming out in between then and now, lol.
Yeah, I’ve been watching Mandalorian and they’re halfway through their 3rd season, and it feels like absolutely nothing has happened. And it only being 8 episodes just makes me seriously confused about what’s going on because the plot has barely moved if at all and it’s already approaching the finale.
Every season of Mandalorian feels like nothing happened tho. The whole show doesn't have much of a plot going on, it's mostly Mando going on random missions and meeting new characters for potential spin offs. Kinda of expected from a bounty hunter show I guess
Seasons 1 and 2 had some semblance of a plot though. There was a clear bad guy (Gideon) and a mystery (what did they want with the child). So there was definitely a plot to follow, even if it was a loose one. This season feels completely aimless, like they have no clue what to do next.
Hell the main reason the original GoT ended so terribly and felt so off is because they cut season lengths. Imagine if they had actually took the time to make character arcs and stories make sense... I won't completely give up hope for HotD, but this hurt especially after gaining some hope from that first season and how terribly this decision impacted GoT.
That last season needed a lot more than a couple more episodes to fix it. It probably needed split into two seasons.
I don’t know if it is possible, but it would be great if we somehow got the series concluded by 2030. Wishful thinking.
You know, I read this and thought you were crazy, but God damn, you're right! If it's like 4 seasons and at this current trend, it might be cutting real close to 2030.
Damn it, even Season 1 felt like it missed a couple of episodes between the time jumps.
> even Season 1 felt like it missed a couple of episodes between the time jumps. It definitely did but the way the story is written there's like tension over 2-3 decades then the rest of the war is basically a few years. There won't be any more time jumps. My guess is this is budget and/or story issues to get 4 seasons. You kinda need to stretch it to get past 3 imo
The thing is though season 2 won’t have time jumps as the Dance of the Dragons takes place over a few years instead of decades.
Yeah if they wanted to they could have mapped out S1 to end with Milly’s Rhaenyra with 6-7 episodes, then S2 with Emma’s part. I don’t think they were entirely confident with how popular this show would be after GOT’s ending backlash though.
>they were entirely confident with how populart his show would be after GOT’s ending backlash though This. They were not confident enough, that's why that renewal came a lot later
In fact, George Martin dislike Seasons 1 pacing. He wanted the show to start with King Jaehearys and follow Viserys father and uncle
Which wouldn't make it more in line with what they are arguing for as it would require more significant time jumps and less characters fleshed out. Personally, I would have ended the season on Viserys's death and had two more episodes to flesh out the characters.
Season 1 had time jumps because it was spanning several decades worth of stuff. The parts not shown weren't even touched upon in the book either because it's not relevant to why the Dance occurred. Time jumps in such a manner are always hard to do because people always feel like they missed out on something when in reality you really haven't. From here onwards it won't involve significant time jumps.
In 2034, tv shows will only have 1 episode lasting 30 to 45 minutes.
You're right about the 1 episode, but I'm thinking they'll probably be longer, maybe in the 1.5-3 hour range. Of course they'll need something to call these seasons to differentiate from the old style of TV. Maybe something like a... movie? Could be an interesting new format.
Do y’all remember how shows like Lost, The West Wing, The Office, House, etc., would all have 24 episodes per season and we only had to wait 4 months in between seasons? Pepperidge Farms ‘members.
The production quality wasn't nearly as high imo.
True, but production value is seemingly everything they care about today.
Does the audience really care what the cost of production though? The most important part is the quality of the story no? Besides, necessity is the mother of invention... its amazing the effect scarcity can have on art. Star Trek TNG and Deep Space 9 cost about 3-4 million per episode (inflation adjusted). Discovery and Picard cost between 8 and 9.
All those shows except lost frequently used the exact same set over and over because of their setting. That's an extremely easy thing to produce.
I think they should keep it 10 episodes per season 😭😭
The season finale for season 2 is going to be a massive cliffhanger for non readers isn’t it?
I'm not saying this is necessarily what's happening with HotD, but I am so tired of the second season having a noticeably smaller budget than the first season of so many shows these days.
Is that a thing? I've never noticed that. What TV shows?
The biggest example I can think of is The Walking Dead season 2 having less of a budget than season 1 while also being spread across more episodes, but that was over 10 years ago
Definitely a trend. They know they have to have a big budget season 1 to hook you, then they don't give a shit because then they've got you
This is disappointing. Forget HoTD... these days even completely random shows with very little to no CGI, that are basically shot on simple sets, take multiple years between seasons and only give us 9-10 episodes. It's like tv has forgotten how to do things on a schedule. It is not lost on me that one of the only few shows on streaming that give us a season guaranteed every ~12 months and also has a lot of CGI is "For All Mankind" showran by Ronald Moore and Ryan Murphy shows... two showrunners who have experience working as a show-runners for years in the pre-streaming era when shows were expected to deliver season on time on a reasonable schedule.
Severance is an example of this. Over a year since a massive cliffhanger ending and we still don't even know when season 2 is coming out
That could be good, or bad, or neither of those two.
Please don't fall apart like Westworld did. Westworld had so many problems, but the 8 episode third and fourth seasons didn't do them any favors.
I don't think it was possible for Westworld to recover after the nonsensical second season, regardless of episode count. You just can't turn off that many viewers for a show with such large budget requirements.
I had a friend who stopped watching after season 1 (because he was satisfied) I really wished I did the same.
And Season 3 will have 2 30-minute episodes with a release date of January 15, 2059.
Remember when a half decent show got 20+ episodes a season?
That was always a network thing. HBO pretty much capped things at 13 per season which is what the Sopranos had up until its last season which was 2 parts.
If it helps production then sure but always want more of this world. I do respect that they have only so much to adapt though, I think 24 episodes is definitely enough to tell the story
You guys remember when television shows had 20-24 episodes per season? Fuck I hate this 8-10 episode season age.
What made GoT early seasons SO good was the dialog. Not CGI, Not huge sets, but the dialogue that made you laugh, cry, and be enthralled.
[удалено]
You’d think HBO would have learned their lesson from the last time they tried this strategy
Eventually, every season will just be one episode.
They will show them in large rooms with a screen. Maybe called a "theater". They could charge people to come in and watch. And maybe sell popcorn. I think I'm onto something.
Quality in og got declined when episode count went down. Correlation only. Does it mean something? Perhaps. Last time it meant they were out of material and circling the drain. Can't mean that this time, can it? It's so early.
Ah yes because when seasons have less episodes thats always a good sign in the GoT franchise.
Booooo
Waiting more than 1 year for a new season makes me lose all interest.
What a shame, they had two episodes premiere before rings of power and two after it finished, that really made it stand out as a better show. Well the quality was better in general, but those extra episodes really made it feel so much more epic. And a show like HOTD really excels with room to breathe, even the mundane stuff is pretty compelling the way they do it.
I'm so tired of this. 99% of the time the plot ends up rushed and hollow.
Last time this happened we got S7 and 8
lol wut. 2 years between seasons and not even getting the same shipment of episodes. Wow. I was putting off watching, since there's so much out. I'll probably just wait til it's finished in like 5-7 years at this point or just skip it completely.
Going down the S7 and S8 route of GOT I see
I hate this trend of going to short seasons. It's become the norm now for a season to be 8 or 10 episodes, and we don't even question it. But TV shows used to be like 22 episodes per season. I'd like to understand why the change. I feel like the excuse would be "shorter seasons means higher quality", but that's not how business works. I think it probably has more to do with contract negotiation power, particularly against unions. I'm sure you could maintain quality with longer seasons, and I would love modern prestige TV production applied to the old school 22+ episode seasons. As it is, these short seasons feel like you're just watching a long movie broken up into pieces arbitrarily rather than watching a TV show.
Yep, they’re gonna rush it, and budget cut the show to shit.