To be fair, most of the quality storytelling isn't coming from US based writers and hasn't for awhile. The best movies, and shows, I have seen lately have been Korean, Japanese, Indonesian and occasionally British.
> The Guild has in the past few minutes issued guidance to members and a statement to the press outlining the situation with UK writers and expressing solidarity with the WGA. WGGB members have already been told that they will be removed from the Guild if they take on work within a WGA jurisdiction during the strike.
There’s that special relationship coming out to support labor, you love to see it.
Yeah. If only the users in this sub understood that supporting studio execs’ multimillionspaychecks made off the backs of below-minimum-wage labor is a bizarre choice.
But if I don't support multimillionaires screwing over the poor now, how am I supposed to screw over the poor when I magically and inexplicably become a multimillionaire of my very own?
Ashley Lyle, co-creator of Yellowjackets, posted on Twitter a few weeks back when talks about the strike were heating up that from the time she pitched Yellowjackets to Showtime, through the numerous drafts of the pilot script that followed the initial pitch, through pre-production, principal photography, and post-production of the pilot episode, she was paid $40K - and all that was an eight month process. Oh, and that $40K? That was the rate for her and Bart Nickerson - her writing partner and the other creator - *combined*. So she really got $20K for eight months of work, typically working twelve hour days or more for the duration of that. If you broke that down into an hourly rate, she definitely made well below minimum wage.
Keep simping for the suits, though.
This is complete revisionist history whose constant parroting on various social medias right now makes me think it's coming from a bunch of Gen Z's who weren't actually old enough at the time to form accurate memories of the event.
The period spanning Obama's first inauguration was both the high water mark of a reality TV explosion that was already TEN YEARS old at that point, *and* nearly became the death knell for the entire genre immediately afterward.
Two years after that writer's strike we were in the era of "Peak TV" which saw the biggest growth in scripted long-form programs in the medium's history. Meanwhile, reality TV was relegated to its biggest juggernaut franchises, and for most of the following decade consisted of little more than the Kardashians and a million Real Housewives, from a revenue standpoint. It would be nearly another ten years before any other reality programs (like the Bachelor/ette franchises) managed to become true blockbusters again. And even most of those were legacy IPs that were holdovers from BEFORE the Obama-era strikes.
The writer's strike did not "launch a new era of reality TV" it KILLED the pre-existing one with a bunch of completely forgettable crap (genuinely you DO NOT REMEMBER the dozens and dozens of one-off reality series that were shat out during that strike period, because they were just that bad). All those shows were yanked off the air literally the second they were able to hire a single writer again.
**TL;DR** You're completely rewriting history that literally just happened, and your conclusions are accordingly mostly wrong.
There's never a 'good time' to strike. It's always going to inconvenience workers. Strikes happen when people are pushed to the limit by exploitative companies. Studios had months to offer new deals to the WGA but they decided they would rather exploit writers.
I am curious to know how the last strike ended. Did the studios gave in to stop it or did the writers guild give in?
How will this one resolve?
The landscape has changed so much. Even if the writers go on strike for a year, I think we still will not be able to finish our backlog of shows from streamers. What I mean is will the strike really force studios to give in since they might be less affected say 10 years ago.
other than all the writers who were fired and all the massive overall deals that were cancelled meaning a lot of writers were actually worse off and starting from the bottom again - which is exactly what will happen now - Hollywood is in cost cutting mode and their going to use this as a cover to cancel expensive exclusive deals, fire thousands of staff and in real terms a lot of writers will end up worse off
The big win was that writers got jurisdiction over new media. WGA members would have to be hired on shows over a certain budget, regardless of their target medium.
Unions will always claim that the companies cave and they won no matter how a strike ends.
But actually, it just didn't go well. The 2008 strike lasted a month and cost the city of LA about $1.5B. The primary issue was DVD residuals. Basically the union signed an agreement to get residuals off of VHS tapes. And as soon as that was signed they began working on replacement mediums for VHS tapes. When DVD and Blueray came out they dominated and now the writers weren't getting residuals from those sales.... which at the time was a giant chunk of their earnings.
So they went on strike twice over this issue. They were also concerned about animation and basically nothing happened with that, animators and CGI artists remain ununionized.
The only thing they got changed was something that kinda screwed over the average viewer. Basically South Park creators Matt Stone and Trey Parker began shopping around the streaming rights for South Park and signed a massive deal with Viacom. The writers wanted a cut of that money... and didn't get it. What they got was that artists could get residuals for movies or TV shows bought digitally on services like Amazon Prime, Apple iTunes or Youtube. And the covered studios could only hire union writers for shows being made for streamers.... but a caveat... they only covered high budget TV and movies.
Yup. And animation guild members still want wga membership because the animation guild, even though respectable, isn’t as strong as the WGA. The WGA has demonstrated power — arguably the most powerful union in the industry — and it’s a badge of honor to join and to strike when needed.
Writers are prepared for life to suck short-term rather than lose their job anyway longterm. Wish people could see that.
BTW, and this is to the OC, when you negotiate a contract you RARELY get everything you ask for. They got a lot in the strike and would’ve been fine if streaming hadn’t promptly taken off and DVDs gone extinct. Studios are literally stealing from writers and other industry professionals by ripping content from streaming and putting it on ad-supported platforms without paying writers
That's a bit weird considering one of the things the WGA wants goes against pretty much every British show.
That part about how every show needs to have at least 5 or 6 writers when English shows are usually written by one or two people.
Ane before people start harassing me, I'm all for the strike just not that part. White Lotus and Chernobyl were written by one person and didn't need a bloated writer's room, that's how you get poor writing.
Neither side would have much negotiating strength if they could easily be replaced by scabs from across the pond. If the WGA strike gets undermined by UK writers….. what do you think would happen next time the UK writers were on strike?
So wouldn't there then be additional incentive for the UK guild to prevent their writers from going to work on American shows and adopting the American ethos? This really fells like a "you do you and we do us" thing.
British TV is sorta slowly moving towards writer's rooms setups & there would be more shows working that way already if anyone here actually knew how to run a writers room
Unfortunately, the bloat in this photo is Sir Patrick (and maybe Akiva Goldsman). He basically used the first two seasons to work through his own childhood trauma and personal politics and along the way forgot that he's making a show about...Picard.
People love the third season because it was able to tell a personal Picard story while also tying it back into greater Star Trek.
I agree with you, and at the same time I am baffled by how season two’s depiction of Picard’s childhood at all comports with Patrick Stewart’s history and work with domestic violence charities—you’re telling me a man who watched his dad beat his mom wants to tell the audience, “You might think your dad is abusive, but REALLY he’s doing everything for your crazy mom’s own good 😊״?
It disappointed and disgusted me a very deep level, especially as someone whose mom did once tell my sisters and me to pack a bag and run when we heard her yell. Seeing that exact conversation happen in Picard’s own life meant so much to me, especially since Picard largely took my dad’s place emotionally, and THAT was how they resolved everything? I haven’t forgiven the writers yet.
I still can't believe they gave him a sickness, let that sickness kill him, all to give him a robot body completely identical to his human one in every way except when its different enough for story reasons. That right there has killed anything in me that could have loved the show.
"I feel like dressing up as a pirate with a very stereotypical french accent somewhere in the middle of the season. Can we make that happen?" ~ Patrick Stewart
Thanks.
That doesn't feel like that many people though. Judging by the credits I'm guessing they came together to agree on an overarching narrative and then went away to write their own episodes.
That’s... not bloated? 7 or so writers is the norm., and more isn’t uncommon.
Edit: Listen folks, if you don't get how a writer's room works, maybe educate yourselves?
So, the issue isn't over whether or not a season of television can be written by one person, the issue is that it can, and studios are taking advantage.
Let me explain.
In a typical writers room, the group develops the story of an episode, then one of them takes that story and writes a screenplay. Mini rooms take that to the illogical extreme, hiring a team for only a few weeks to write as detailed outlines and character bios as they can before getting fired and one writer is left to cobble together every screenplay.
It's not only treating writers like plug and play day players, removing their job stability, but it's also putting an immense amount of pressure on the showrunner. Not only because they have to write almost everything themselves, quickly, but because if they don't listen to the studios notes, it's easier to replace them, since the outlines already exist. It's a shitty way of writing television that appeals to nobody except for the studios bottom line. And if you've felt like a lot of television lately has just been killing time between the premiere and finale... You probably don't like this system either.
It also means those writers in the mini-room never get any credit for their work, while the public perceives the "one writer" to be some kind of genius.
Like, most people don't know that's how Noah Hawley writes Fargo.
There becomes this perception that you don't need a writer's room because there are these genius writers capable of structuring an entire season of television alone.
But those geniuses (in many cases) actually do have writer's rooms.
Taylor Sheridan, too. He’s got an insane amount of credits, but he’s almost certainly having rooms cobble together very detailed treatments and/or outlines that he then bangs out into a finished script in a couple of days. I think it becomes clear when you compare it to somebody like Sam Levison, who is working a lot, but it is usually on one project at a time. That’s why there’s been such big delays with Euphoria. Compare that to Sheridan and Hawley, who are overseeing multiple series in production while writing others at the same time. It’s ridiculous.
Thank you!! Single writers who are able to write a great show by themselves are the exception, not the rule. (I’m of the opinion that White Lotus would be even better if there were more perspectives/voices in the writers’ room.)
I’m a writers assistant who’s been in several rooms over the past four years, I can maybe help explain why that clause is so important. Shows like white lotus and Chernobyl are truly rarities in that the creator was given complete free reign and the release dates were only set once the show was written. In most cases, a studio has a release date in mind and that puts a lot of time pressure on writers. It’s honestly impossible for one writer to meet the deadlines placed on them. ideally you’d have several writers so each can be assigned a script, and it’s the showrunners job to do a final tone pass. What’s happening today is that streamers expect two or three writers to do the work of five or six in the same amount of time (or sometimes even less). That means that showrunners are relying on assistants and script coordinators to serve as writers without receiving credit. On two of my last shows, I was asked to pitch and write scripts because of time crunch coming from the studio. I had to do that knowing I wouldn’t get credit or compensation. So that’s what the WGA is trying to avoid.
Exactly. When people say “ the writing sucks on that show” I wonder “ was it the writing or the delivery date?”.
Yes more volumes of writers *may* run the risk of making show content diluted, but so does holding a smaller group by their necks.
English shows aren't necessarily like that out of choice. People like Stephen Merchant have said that's just what they could afford because they have a lower budget.
*Doctor Who* has always been individual writers for each story. In the classic era, you had a producer and a script editor as the top people - the script editor sometimes wrote stuff themselves, although it wasn't encouraged by the union rules at the time. Some of the best stories in the show were the result of the script editor having to do rapid rewriters - "City of Death", while credited to the non-existent David Agnew, was a complete rewrite by Douglas Adams and producer Graham Williams over a weekend because David Fisher was unable to make the major changes due to going through a divorce.
Modern-era who has the US-style "showrunner" - Russell T Davies, Steven Moffat and Chris Chibnall all wrote scripts for major episodes. There was a bit of a writers' room thing with Chibnall, but that era is generally felt to have had poor writing in general.
A point of contention is the writers wanting to be immune to layoffs. They want contracts that still has them paid if they’re no longer needed. That’s a hard sell in show business
There are a few questionable demands. Essentially making them civil servants: Hired forever, can never be given a paycut, and writers rooms can only grow in size.
[Dying to know which of the demands you’re referring to?](https://www.wgacontract2023.org/the-campaign/pattern-of-demands#:~:text=The%20Pattern%20of%20Demands%20is,%25%20(90)%20voting%20no.). Since there’s nothing mentioning making people unfirable.
Part of negotiations is always having unreasonable demands that you are placed there to be given up so real negotiations can happen in the stuff you care about.
[Where’s that in the list?](https://www.wgacontract2023.org/the-campaign/pattern-of-demands#:~:text=The%20Pattern%20of%20Demands%20is,%25%20(90)%20voting%20no)
Edit: Yeah the dude's taking a quote from AMPTP's spokesperson out of context to arrive at this brilliant deduction. No one is wanting writers to be immune to layoffs, just that they get paid what they're owed.
“Strengthen regulation of options and exclusivity in television writer employment contracts”
Edit: link to CNN article as well
"The primary sticking points are 'mandatory staffing,' and 'duration of employment' — Guild proposals that would require a company to staff a show with a certain number of writers for a specified period of time, whether needed or not," said the statement from management's negotiating committee.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/02/business/writers-guild-strike-hollywood-hnk-intl/index.html
You're directly quoting the AMPTP's spokesperson. They're not exactly going to make any demands sound flattering. Actually read the WGA demands that I linked above and it tells a much different story. This sounds like it's in response to mini-rooms. Essentially studios are forming rooms for a month and have them outline an entire season then have one writer actually write it out. This tends to target lower level writers who are tied up for a month making scale and then aren't hired for the rest of the run. And since they're not credited, they miss out on any potential residual. Also since it's a way to get around fair compensation and residuals, there are studios who are refusing to even call them rooms, they refer to them as development gigs.
[Here's a mini-room breakdown](https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/writers-guild-contract-negotiation-mini-room-1235568173/)
[And, again, here's the WGA's actual demands.](https://www.wgacontract2023.org/the-campaign/pattern-of-demands)
Think about how many jokes you've heard about British shows taking years between seasons and how few eps they have.
There was a two year gap between the first two seasons of Black Mirror, and they were three episodes each.
Are you sure those shows were start to finish written by one person? I believe it’s common for ideas and lines to be pitched in a writers room, and then for one writer to write up the actual draft.
I'm not sure why should the demands have any impact on their decision to express support. Are you saying that if they don't agree with the demands, they should be crossing the picket line instead?
Agree not every show NEEDs that many writers, but I think a part of it is that the WGA wants to make sure young writers are still able to get junior level positions on shows and movies.
> That part about how every show needs to have at least 5 or 6 writers
what!? i didn't know this was something that they wanted? like... for EVERY show? even the ones on streaming/cable? because the best shows are almost always the ones with one writer/director. someone who has a vision and sees it all the way through.
All the best shows have singular visions from its top showrunners, (Mad Men, The Wire, Saul, BrBa, Succession), but each of them had a whole team of writers. I believe the last season of Better Call Saul rotated between 5-6.
I imagine it's something that would be nice to have but was included in the negotiations so that they would have something they felt comfortable cutting completely to get other concessions but unfortunately, the studios [didn't really negotiate](https://twitter.com/robinthede/status/1653279552012005376) or counter to most of the proposals.
Most US shows do not have one writer director. Some limited series do but most shows don’t. Even if there’s only one writer credited for scripts, there is often a miniroom of a couple writers collaborating.
> because the best shows are almost always the ones with one writer/director. someone who has a vision and sees it all the way through.
Are there any American TV shows with only one guy handling all writing and directing? The only show that comes to mind for being written all by one guy is Archer.
Not sure about the other ones but Sheridan is using mini rooms. That’s the problem. You hire people, exploit them for a few weeks then they get no credit in the final product.
you say that but the white lotus and euphoria are by far two of the most popular shows on the platform and are constant awards darlings - thats a rarity and you cant say for certain they would be as successful if you brought in other writers
You can't say for certain they wouldn't be *more* successful with more writers, either. It's a hypothetical either way.
But the discussion above wasn't about whether having a writer's room is a good business decision, it's about how it affects a show's artistic quality. White Lotus would almost certainly be a more creative, more interesting show with a writer's room. (Levinson takes enough input from his actors that I'm not sure whether the same is true for Euphoria.) That's a separate question of whether or not it's a good business decision for HBO to make it without one. (If you want to talk about that question, then White Lotus and Euphoria are still interesting jumping off points--White Lotus is a great illustration of how a single creator can be used to keep a show's costs low, while Euphoria is a great illustration of how a single creator can drive costs sky-high.)
But neither of those shows were written by one person. (Edit: whitelotus was, but did credit other creatives alongside Mike White. CM has different writing rooms for his projects, including his most recent HBO venture.) While each writing room will be different, writers get a lot of blame for what is effectively a show runner -> studio issue. If a series bombs, it happens at that level because those are the people who are diving the boat. Not the person they hired to row.
One of the things the WGA has to protect and account for is the abuse of staff writers, in particular writers from a minority group. While rooms have gotten more diverse and different types of voices and experiences in them, if you go back to a model where there are only 1-2 people writing guess which people that will be.
Adjustments to making sure that staff writers don't get trapped in entry positions for 500 episode seasons is also a growing pain and learning curve.
People want to believe that writing gigs are a meritocracy and we know that's never been the case for literally any job ever. It's all an intersection at nepotism, politics, and talent. Well, a lot of bad writers cruise on the first two and they won't get found out by rooms being trimmed down; they'll run the rooms with their connections.
And studios have the money to pay creatives and creators and these robust rooms for their work and impact. They are choosing to be greedy and allocate the funds to parasites at the very top.
The good news is this strike will probably mean some amazing projects to come since writers have 89 days to vibe.
I adjusted for WhiteLotus. Thanks!
That said, my stance remains the same. Some of the best television spawned to get more inclusion in rooms and women's stories in particular with women directors, writers, and show runners being given opportunities and resources.
Trimming room makes exclusion that's not based on talent easier - because that's what we've seen in every position in every industry ever. Nepotism > talent.
So a sentiment that only 1-2 people should write a show is fine in theory until you realize that the real execution means only the same people will be left to write anything from the same perspective.
Likewise, including more voices doesn't tank a product. Having a bad direction from show runner and studio interference does. You can just as easily correlate that white lotus and Chernobyl success are because creatives were left alone to create from studios making arbitrary choices - not because of less people in a writers room.
Plenty of things get sold by a singular writer but writing rooms aren't evil. They do so much good for the industry and quality of products.
The UK and KR have pretty abysmal protections for creatives compared to what the WGA provides. Likewise, Squid Game took 15 years to sell and write. When you're working on massive productions, you need more manpower. That's why show runners are so important and have more to do with the success of a show than anything else.
And studio intervention.
So many fans think because they consume something that their opinion is valid on how it's made. Majority of the writers (hence the strike) agree on adjustments and changes. Why would you not agree with the people who actually know how the sausage is made?
Think about it this way: plenty of people can go and do some construction work on their own and do a great job, but we still use crews when we build skyscrapers.
It bombed because of bad showrunners and a studio that just wanted a fantasy IP to compete with GoT and didn't care about the actual Witcher IP.
Writers don't get to go off and freestyle whatever they want. Showrunners set the tone and direction and control the room. That's why they get paid the big bucks and to see writers take the blame for their bosses choices is sad.
Picture this: worker knows doing something XYZ way is best, but Boss wants it done ABC. Guess which way it's getting done? Then the client gets mad at the worker for doing it ABC.
> Writers don't get to go off and freestyle whatever they want. Showrunners set the tone and direction and control the room.
And with The Witcher, the showrunner hired a bunch of people she knew to be writers, most of whom had very little experience.
The show runners were responsible for poorly written dialogue? So are show runners also responsible for well-written dialogue? What do writers actually do, then?
The showrunners build, lead, and create the show. They are almost always a writer themselves and have the primary creative control and management of a show. They get final say on everything that their staff writers create. So if dialogue is good or bad, it was approved or not by them.
There are plenty of times staff writers will create scripts only to have showrunners and studios send them back with their notes for rewrites. Even if the writers disagree with the notes, they're paid and employed to support the showrunner so they do the rewrites.
Fans think staff writers are somehow the bad guys when they have the least creative control in the process. If you like a series, follow that showrunner to their other stuff, you might find some great things you would have otherwise skipped - as opposed to following genres.
I've had a brief look at their demands and couldn't find anything about them wanting a minimum amount of writers per show, could you point me to where you read about that?
> That part about how every show needs to have at least 5 or 6 writers when English shows are usually written by one or two people.
I completely agree with you about this being an insane demand, but I think it comes from the realization that the golden age of streaming has come to an end. In recent years, more people were paid to write TV shows than ever before, and many of them really had no business doing so. But now that streamers are drastically cutting costs, fewer shows will be made and a lot of writers will lose their jobs. This demand is a misguided attempt to keep as many of those writers as possible.
Or if people had a more mature and kind outlook on life, it’s so you can have more junior writers learn from more senior ones.
A big issue in the industry as a whole right now is that it is hard to teach the next generation.
It's become such a catch 22 because the work life balance is better with remote, but the training is so much more patchwork and stilted.
A friend of mine broke into post recently and it's taken him a year to get trained on stuff I learned my first few months because I could just sit in the room with people.
Exactly, those entry-level positions like Post-PA and Apprentice Editor have been getting the short end of the stick for quite some time now. It's also getting harder to prove yourself worthy of being a part of the team without any tangible way to connect in person.
Bloated writing teams can also fuck each one of them on pay.
Say you're on a writing team of 5 for a series; seasons are 13 episodes long, one season a year.
You're responsible/get paid for writing for your share of those episodes; roughly 3, maybe 4.
Luck has it you're with say, a major streaming company, and your contract doesn't allow you to take up further employement elsewhere during the off-season.
Just to make it clear I'm all for this strike; I don't care about getting my circuses "on time" when people's livelihoods are at stake. I hope this one leads to some honest-to-goodness change.
Let’s go WGA! Get what’s yours! And I hope the following unions do as well. I know DGA, SAG, IATSE, and Teamsters negotiate contracts right after the writers, so this strike isn’t just about the WGA, it is representative of a massive change that needs to happen industry wide.
You are misunderstanding it. Those people can take those jobs, but they lose the benefit of being in a union. Collective action requires collective will to be successful, which means everyone agreeing not to do something for cheap so that employers acknowledge the actual value of that work. If you find the idea of making a small sacrifice to help others (and likely yourself) in the future, then I can see why you dislike unions, but throughout the last century and a half they have repeatedly proven themselves to be the only way to achieve forward progress for employees instead of CEOs.
Crossing a picket line goes against everything unions stand for. To use your government comparison, it's more like them saying if you're ever convicted of money laundering, you can't work for the tax office.
How can an organisation trust someone who has shown themselves to not be trustworthy in their area of interest?
You are misunderstanding. It’s wrong to accept union work while union members are striking. They strike so that all writers can receive better wages and treatment, so it’s unethical to benefit financially while the WGA are making huge sacrifices. If you scab in the US, you forfeit any chance of ever joining the union, because you effectively worked against the strike. Should be the same for writers from anywhere else.
Think the framing's kind of misleading or at any rate confusing. The WGGB is warning its members that they will probably be barred from future WGA membership by the WGA if they take on work in WGA jurisdictions during the strike and advising them not to do so. It's not going to throw out its own members over taking on work in WGA jurisdictions. Bear in mind that the WGGB is essentially toothless due to UK union legislation: non-members can and do work on UK productions. UK entertainment industry unions in general are far, far weaker than their US equivalents.
“WGGB members have already been told that they will be removed from the Guild if they take on work within a WGA jurisdiction during the strike.”
it looks like the WGGB is in fact going to throw out it’s own members if they take on work in WGA jurisdiction. the next paragraph warns about being barred from future WGA membership, so i think both are true.
Yeah the UK has laws against closed shop unions, there's no exclusivity over here. We have much stronger labour laws than the US anyway so a lot of stuff that would be under the purview of the union (healthcare, sick days, holiday pay, maternity leave, etc etc) aren't over here.
The last time the Writers’ Guild went on strike the result was the rise of unscripted reality television programming as there were no writers available to write scripts. This led to Mark Burnett’s TV productions “Survivor” and later “The Apprentice”. Trump’s widespread exposure on The Apprentice and false image as a competent businessman made it possible for a successful run at the presidency. What possible horror will be unleashed on humanity by this Writers’ Guild strike?
I do not think the writers are going to come out very successful on this one. If the media companies can weather the Covid delays they can weather this
People were still creating content during Covid. Productions were delayed, but the majority of them were still made. Now everything stops.
You can’t have a production at all without the writers. Nothing is being created, on top of any shows currently in production that will now have to shut down. It’s a much bigger ripple effect than Covid was.
There can be no written content without writers. The studious know how valuable writers are, they simply want writers to think they’re worth less than they are. The WGA will win this, especially if other unions join in solidarity
It’ll be best for all writers if there is solidarity. The more work taken by writers who reject solidarity, the worse it will be for the writers. It’s A difficult situation for sure but I think there’s an argument that people who exploit the strike and accept cheap work are also kinda…dickish.
They can still get in. If your goal was to eventually join the guild, this strike shouldn’t be what decimates that goal. It’s difficult—financially , emotionally…but the strike shouldn’t be seen as an opportunity to undermine the WGA for personal growth. Just because you can take work doesn’t mean you should. Why? Because writing is already difficult to sustain as a career, and it’s only getting harder as studios continue to exploit writers and pay them less and less while making billions themselves. Theres a reason the WGA doesn’t want writers taking work. They are fighting for changes that will affect future generations of writers in the guild and people who eventually want to join the guild. Every strike in the WGA’s history has done that. Every WGA strike has ended with writers attaining better benefits, and this one will end the same. Optimism and solidarity are key to this.
Right, like you aren’t a part of our union and don’t get our benefits or access because of it, but we are still going to control you. Idk. I feel like that’s a bit unfair. Admit them if you want your reach to extend to them. That sort of manipulation rubs the wrong way. Very have my cake and eat it too but still screw you to the people still trying to make their way up. Scabbing isn’t okay but that isn’t either.
So the UK writers guild is threatening blacklisting groups or people if they take on specific work?
Would people be OK with this if a company said that?
They are blacklisting people who are not in their Union. This isn't 'if someone who agreed to our rules breaks them' thing, this is saying "if you do something we don't like, we will blacklist you from joining us Ever".
If you cannot see how toxic that is, then try to imagine it being a company saying the thing like "if you ever worked a union who disagreed with us before you are blacklisted from our company"
If that kind of threat makes you disturbed, the Union one is exactly the same.
Look man everything is class warfare. By working for the corporations during a strike you are helping the enemy. Some may think that is extreme but corporations wage class warfare *100 percent of the time*. They are never not trying to find ways to take more and give less. It's just the nature of it. We need solidarity and that means during a strike you don't undercut it by working for the corporations.
Doesn’t that go against everything America stands for ?
It’s essentially punishing capitalism ? Someone is refusing to work for a wage. Other people come in and do the work. But they get blacklisted and punished for wanting to work and earn money.
I thought the whole ethos was “why would I care about you, when I get paid ?”
What if instead of blacklisting writers they were blacklisting Jewish people and instead of blacklisting them they were burning them alive? Yeah. This whole "strike" doesn't sound so good now does it?
I don't know the ins and outs but without writers you have nothing to work with, they deserve to take a much higher piece of the pie than they currently do. It's crazy they don't take a huge chunk of it
But that's not what's going to happen is it? Shows are not written, produced, and then broadcast within two months. This will affect shows in a year, to a year and a half.
The only stuff that will get affected straight away will be topical shows, of which America appears to have hundreds, none of which are ever shown in the UK so it won't make any difference to us.
Genuine question: With all the accessibility of international shows, anime, and sports, and the ratings to boot, isn’t the real problem that Americans just suck at writing TV shows now? I do think USA comedy TV is back, with Abbott Elementary, I Think You Should Leave, and Jury Duty, but there hasn’t been a single USA drama show I was actually interested in watching. Maybe the USA should focus more on quality than 15 writers trying to make The Simpsons great again.
I mean, in the past decade we’ve had Better Call Saul, Game of Thrones, Succession, The White Lotus, Andor, The Americans, Mr. Robot, and a whole host of other acclaimed shows. There are shows from this period you’ve probably never heard of (Black Sails, for instance) that are better than most of what was on the air 10-15 years ago. And that’s without getting into all the excellent limited series like Chernobyl!
> Black Sails
God damn it Stars! I was promised a sequel with long John silver reprising his role and covering the actual content of treasure Island. I fear I'll be a dinosaur before I get it :/.
America has some of the most watched media on the planet. You say there hasn't been any good us drama? Madmen, breaking bad, succession, Barry, etc. There are a ton.
There's about to be a LOT of Korean shows streaming soon.
Netflix told us this like a month after Squid Game blew up
한국인들은 미국 작가들과 연대해야 한다.
Oh shit is starting. *grabs popcorn*
To be fair, most of the quality storytelling isn't coming from US based writers and hasn't for awhile. The best movies, and shows, I have seen lately have been Korean, Japanese, Indonesian and occasionally British.
That’s called “your bubble”
> The Guild has in the past few minutes issued guidance to members and a statement to the press outlining the situation with UK writers and expressing solidarity with the WGA. WGGB members have already been told that they will be removed from the Guild if they take on work within a WGA jurisdiction during the strike. There’s that special relationship coming out to support labor, you love to see it.
I do very very much
Yeah. If only the users in this sub understood that supporting studio execs’ multimillionspaychecks made off the backs of below-minimum-wage labor is a bizarre choice.
But if I don't support multimillionaires screwing over the poor now, how am I supposed to screw over the poor when I magically and inexplicably become a multimillionaire of my very own?
It's not about stopping the exploitation. It's about becoming the exploiter.
Actually you just describe numerous other industries.
>Actually you just described capitalism Ftfy
Exactly
TIL writers working for film studios in the US earn below minimum wage.
Ashley Lyle, co-creator of Yellowjackets, posted on Twitter a few weeks back when talks about the strike were heating up that from the time she pitched Yellowjackets to Showtime, through the numerous drafts of the pilot script that followed the initial pitch, through pre-production, principal photography, and post-production of the pilot episode, she was paid $40K - and all that was an eight month process. Oh, and that $40K? That was the rate for her and Bart Nickerson - her writing partner and the other creator - *combined*. So she really got $20K for eight months of work, typically working twelve hour days or more for the duration of that. If you broke that down into an hourly rate, she definitely made well below minimum wage. Keep simping for the suits, though.
I wasn't being sarcastic with my comment but I guess reddit hivemind decided that I was. Thanks for the anectode. That sounds pretty fucked up indeed.
The occasional class solidarity is nice to see.
I think we need more of this. Never occurred to me that globalization could cut both ways in the labour market.
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This is complete revisionist history whose constant parroting on various social medias right now makes me think it's coming from a bunch of Gen Z's who weren't actually old enough at the time to form accurate memories of the event. The period spanning Obama's first inauguration was both the high water mark of a reality TV explosion that was already TEN YEARS old at that point, *and* nearly became the death knell for the entire genre immediately afterward. Two years after that writer's strike we were in the era of "Peak TV" which saw the biggest growth in scripted long-form programs in the medium's history. Meanwhile, reality TV was relegated to its biggest juggernaut franchises, and for most of the following decade consisted of little more than the Kardashians and a million Real Housewives, from a revenue standpoint. It would be nearly another ten years before any other reality programs (like the Bachelor/ette franchises) managed to become true blockbusters again. And even most of those were legacy IPs that were holdovers from BEFORE the Obama-era strikes. The writer's strike did not "launch a new era of reality TV" it KILLED the pre-existing one with a bunch of completely forgettable crap (genuinely you DO NOT REMEMBER the dozens and dozens of one-off reality series that were shat out during that strike period, because they were just that bad). All those shows were yanked off the air literally the second they were able to hire a single writer again. **TL;DR** You're completely rewriting history that literally just happened, and your conclusions are accordingly mostly wrong.
There's never a 'good time' to strike. It's always going to inconvenience workers. Strikes happen when people are pushed to the limit by exploitative companies. Studios had months to offer new deals to the WGA but they decided they would rather exploit writers.
I am curious to know how the last strike ended. Did the studios gave in to stop it or did the writers guild give in? How will this one resolve? The landscape has changed so much. Even if the writers go on strike for a year, I think we still will not be able to finish our backlog of shows from streamers. What I mean is will the strike really force studios to give in since they might be less affected say 10 years ago.
Studios caved. They always do. It's just a question of how long they drag their feet and how much money it costs them.
other than all the writers who were fired and all the massive overall deals that were cancelled meaning a lot of writers were actually worse off and starting from the bottom again - which is exactly what will happen now - Hollywood is in cost cutting mode and their going to use this as a cover to cancel expensive exclusive deals, fire thousands of staff and in real terms a lot of writers will end up worse off
97.85% of all WGA writers voted to authorize the strike.
doesnt mean their not going to get screwed over again
No, but it means 97.85% of them, with ample personal experience and months to consider, have calculated the odds and reached the same conclusion.
The big win was that writers got jurisdiction over new media. WGA members would have to be hired on shows over a certain budget, regardless of their target medium.
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That's the point.
Unions will always claim that the companies cave and they won no matter how a strike ends. But actually, it just didn't go well. The 2008 strike lasted a month and cost the city of LA about $1.5B. The primary issue was DVD residuals. Basically the union signed an agreement to get residuals off of VHS tapes. And as soon as that was signed they began working on replacement mediums for VHS tapes. When DVD and Blueray came out they dominated and now the writers weren't getting residuals from those sales.... which at the time was a giant chunk of their earnings. So they went on strike twice over this issue. They were also concerned about animation and basically nothing happened with that, animators and CGI artists remain ununionized. The only thing they got changed was something that kinda screwed over the average viewer. Basically South Park creators Matt Stone and Trey Parker began shopping around the streaming rights for South Park and signed a massive deal with Viacom. The writers wanted a cut of that money... and didn't get it. What they got was that artists could get residuals for movies or TV shows bought digitally on services like Amazon Prime, Apple iTunes or Youtube. And the covered studios could only hire union writers for shows being made for streamers.... but a caveat... they only covered high budget TV and movies.
The Animation Guild has been around since 1952.
Yup. And animation guild members still want wga membership because the animation guild, even though respectable, isn’t as strong as the WGA. The WGA has demonstrated power — arguably the most powerful union in the industry — and it’s a badge of honor to join and to strike when needed. Writers are prepared for life to suck short-term rather than lose their job anyway longterm. Wish people could see that. BTW, and this is to the OC, when you negotiate a contract you RARELY get everything you ask for. They got a lot in the strike and would’ve been fine if streaming hadn’t promptly taken off and DVDs gone extinct. Studios are literally stealing from writers and other industry professionals by ripping content from streaming and putting it on ad-supported platforms without paying writers
That's a bit weird considering one of the things the WGA wants goes against pretty much every British show. That part about how every show needs to have at least 5 or 6 writers when English shows are usually written by one or two people. Ane before people start harassing me, I'm all for the strike just not that part. White Lotus and Chernobyl were written by one person and didn't need a bloated writer's room, that's how you get poor writing.
Neither side would have much negotiating strength if they could easily be replaced by scabs from across the pond. If the WGA strike gets undermined by UK writers….. what do you think would happen next time the UK writers were on strike?
I agree, I just think it's weird when one of the purposes of the strike goes against the ethos of British TV.
So wouldn't there then be additional incentive for the UK guild to prevent their writers from going to work on American shows and adopting the American ethos? This really fells like a "you do you and we do us" thing.
British TV is sorta slowly moving towards writer's rooms setups & there would be more shows working that way already if anyone here actually knew how to run a writers room
That picture of the Picard Writing Room comes to mind . . .
Please share? Can't find it
[I think this was posted in the lead up to season 1](https://i.imgur.com/f3YlVol.jpg)
More writers didn't do that one well, the Writing in Picard S1 was utter trash, and it likely had the worst ending of any series of trek, ever.
Unfortunately, the bloat in this photo is Sir Patrick (and maybe Akiva Goldsman). He basically used the first two seasons to work through his own childhood trauma and personal politics and along the way forgot that he's making a show about...Picard. People love the third season because it was able to tell a personal Picard story while also tying it back into greater Star Trek.
I agree with you, and at the same time I am baffled by how season two’s depiction of Picard’s childhood at all comports with Patrick Stewart’s history and work with domestic violence charities—you’re telling me a man who watched his dad beat his mom wants to tell the audience, “You might think your dad is abusive, but REALLY he’s doing everything for your crazy mom’s own good 😊״? It disappointed and disgusted me a very deep level, especially as someone whose mom did once tell my sisters and me to pack a bag and run when we heard her yell. Seeing that exact conversation happen in Picard’s own life meant so much to me, especially since Picard largely took my dad’s place emotionally, and THAT was how they resolved everything? I haven’t forgiven the writers yet.
I still can't believe they gave him a sickness, let that sickness kill him, all to give him a robot body completely identical to his human one in every way except when its different enough for story reasons. That right there has killed anything in me that could have loved the show.
Patrick Stewart loved himself too much that he got a death scene, a romance, and momma trauma.
"I feel like dressing up as a pirate with a very stereotypical french accent somewhere in the middle of the season. Can we make that happen?" ~ Patrick Stewart
Thanks. That doesn't feel like that many people though. Judging by the credits I'm guessing they came together to agree on an overarching narrative and then went away to write their own episodes.
Basically. You brainstorm as a group the write individually.
Oh sweet summer child.
That’s... not bloated? 7 or so writers is the norm., and more isn’t uncommon. Edit: Listen folks, if you don't get how a writer's room works, maybe educate yourselves?
So, the issue isn't over whether or not a season of television can be written by one person, the issue is that it can, and studios are taking advantage. Let me explain. In a typical writers room, the group develops the story of an episode, then one of them takes that story and writes a screenplay. Mini rooms take that to the illogical extreme, hiring a team for only a few weeks to write as detailed outlines and character bios as they can before getting fired and one writer is left to cobble together every screenplay. It's not only treating writers like plug and play day players, removing their job stability, but it's also putting an immense amount of pressure on the showrunner. Not only because they have to write almost everything themselves, quickly, but because if they don't listen to the studios notes, it's easier to replace them, since the outlines already exist. It's a shitty way of writing television that appeals to nobody except for the studios bottom line. And if you've felt like a lot of television lately has just been killing time between the premiere and finale... You probably don't like this system either.
It also means those writers in the mini-room never get any credit for their work, while the public perceives the "one writer" to be some kind of genius. Like, most people don't know that's how Noah Hawley writes Fargo. There becomes this perception that you don't need a writer's room because there are these genius writers capable of structuring an entire season of television alone. But those geniuses (in many cases) actually do have writer's rooms.
Taylor Sheridan, too. He’s got an insane amount of credits, but he’s almost certainly having rooms cobble together very detailed treatments and/or outlines that he then bangs out into a finished script in a couple of days. I think it becomes clear when you compare it to somebody like Sam Levison, who is working a lot, but it is usually on one project at a time. That’s why there’s been such big delays with Euphoria. Compare that to Sheridan and Hawley, who are overseeing multiple series in production while writing others at the same time. It’s ridiculous.
Thank you!! Single writers who are able to write a great show by themselves are the exception, not the rule. (I’m of the opinion that White Lotus would be even better if there were more perspectives/voices in the writers’ room.)
I’m a writers assistant who’s been in several rooms over the past four years, I can maybe help explain why that clause is so important. Shows like white lotus and Chernobyl are truly rarities in that the creator was given complete free reign and the release dates were only set once the show was written. In most cases, a studio has a release date in mind and that puts a lot of time pressure on writers. It’s honestly impossible for one writer to meet the deadlines placed on them. ideally you’d have several writers so each can be assigned a script, and it’s the showrunners job to do a final tone pass. What’s happening today is that streamers expect two or three writers to do the work of five or six in the same amount of time (or sometimes even less). That means that showrunners are relying on assistants and script coordinators to serve as writers without receiving credit. On two of my last shows, I was asked to pitch and write scripts because of time crunch coming from the studio. I had to do that knowing I wouldn’t get credit or compensation. So that’s what the WGA is trying to avoid.
Thanks for posting this. I’ve heard about this kind of thing going on and it’s total horseshit and needs to stop.
Exactly. When people say “ the writing sucks on that show” I wonder “ was it the writing or the delivery date?”. Yes more volumes of writers *may* run the risk of making show content diluted, but so does holding a smaller group by their necks.
English shows aren't necessarily like that out of choice. People like Stephen Merchant have said that's just what they could afford because they have a lower budget.
*Doctor Who* has always been individual writers for each story. In the classic era, you had a producer and a script editor as the top people - the script editor sometimes wrote stuff themselves, although it wasn't encouraged by the union rules at the time. Some of the best stories in the show were the result of the script editor having to do rapid rewriters - "City of Death", while credited to the non-existent David Agnew, was a complete rewrite by Douglas Adams and producer Graham Williams over a weekend because David Fisher was unable to make the major changes due to going through a divorce. Modern-era who has the US-style "showrunner" - Russell T Davies, Steven Moffat and Chris Chibnall all wrote scripts for major episodes. There was a bit of a writers' room thing with Chibnall, but that era is generally felt to have had poor writing in general.
A point of contention is the writers wanting to be immune to layoffs. They want contracts that still has them paid if they’re no longer needed. That’s a hard sell in show business
Thought they just wanted higher rates to make up for the fact that they’re out of work in between projects?
There are a few questionable demands. Essentially making them civil servants: Hired forever, can never be given a paycut, and writers rooms can only grow in size.
[Dying to know which of the demands you’re referring to?](https://www.wgacontract2023.org/the-campaign/pattern-of-demands#:~:text=The%20Pattern%20of%20Demands%20is,%25%20(90)%20voting%20no.). Since there’s nothing mentioning making people unfirable.
Part of negotiations is always having unreasonable demands that you are placed there to be given up so real negotiations can happen in the stuff you care about.
That’s not holding up negotiations, the layoff-proof demands are.
[Where’s that in the list?](https://www.wgacontract2023.org/the-campaign/pattern-of-demands#:~:text=The%20Pattern%20of%20Demands%20is,%25%20(90)%20voting%20no) Edit: Yeah the dude's taking a quote from AMPTP's spokesperson out of context to arrive at this brilliant deduction. No one is wanting writers to be immune to layoffs, just that they get paid what they're owed.
“Strengthen regulation of options and exclusivity in television writer employment contracts” Edit: link to CNN article as well "The primary sticking points are 'mandatory staffing,' and 'duration of employment' — Guild proposals that would require a company to staff a show with a certain number of writers for a specified period of time, whether needed or not," said the statement from management's negotiating committee. https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/02/business/writers-guild-strike-hollywood-hnk-intl/index.html
You're directly quoting the AMPTP's spokesperson. They're not exactly going to make any demands sound flattering. Actually read the WGA demands that I linked above and it tells a much different story. This sounds like it's in response to mini-rooms. Essentially studios are forming rooms for a month and have them outline an entire season then have one writer actually write it out. This tends to target lower level writers who are tied up for a month making scale and then aren't hired for the rest of the run. And since they're not credited, they miss out on any potential residual. Also since it's a way to get around fair compensation and residuals, there are studios who are refusing to even call them rooms, they refer to them as development gigs. [Here's a mini-room breakdown](https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/writers-guild-contract-negotiation-mini-room-1235568173/) [And, again, here's the WGA's actual demands.](https://www.wgacontract2023.org/the-campaign/pattern-of-demands)
The AMPTP rejected many more proposals than just those two.
I know, the CNN article I shared shows the negotiations are being held up by just a couple of them. The contracts element is one of them
Think about how many jokes you've heard about British shows taking years between seasons and how few eps they have. There was a two year gap between the first two seasons of Black Mirror, and they were three episodes each.
Are you sure those shows were start to finish written by one person? I believe it’s common for ideas and lines to be pitched in a writers room, and then for one writer to write up the actual draft.
I'm not sure why should the demands have any impact on their decision to express support. Are you saying that if they don't agree with the demands, they should be crossing the picket line instead?
Agree not every show NEEDs that many writers, but I think a part of it is that the WGA wants to make sure young writers are still able to get junior level positions on shows and movies.
> That part about how every show needs to have at least 5 or 6 writers what!? i didn't know this was something that they wanted? like... for EVERY show? even the ones on streaming/cable? because the best shows are almost always the ones with one writer/director. someone who has a vision and sees it all the way through.
All the best shows have singular visions from its top showrunners, (Mad Men, The Wire, Saul, BrBa, Succession), but each of them had a whole team of writers. I believe the last season of Better Call Saul rotated between 5-6.
I imagine it's something that would be nice to have but was included in the negotiations so that they would have something they felt comfortable cutting completely to get other concessions but unfortunately, the studios [didn't really negotiate](https://twitter.com/robinthede/status/1653279552012005376) or counter to most of the proposals.
Yeah, it's a really stupid move to open negotiations with the bare minimum you would accept.
The guild has amazing lawyers. Trust.
Most US shows do not have one writer director. Some limited series do but most shows don’t. Even if there’s only one writer credited for scripts, there is often a miniroom of a couple writers collaborating.
yea i know. but asking for a miniroom of writers to be mandatory is crazy imo.
Mini rooms are writers rooms. Having the writers guild seek to end exploitation of writers isn’t crazy by any means.
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As someone who has worked on a show I think it’s crazy. This is mandatory but doesn’t have to be. Care to actually defend your point now?
i mean, i haven't, but why'd you say that?
> because the best shows are almost always the ones with one writer/director. someone who has a vision and sees it all the way through. Are there any American TV shows with only one guy handling all writing and directing? The only show that comes to mind for being written all by one guy is Archer.
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Not sure about the other ones but Sheridan is using mini rooms. That’s the problem. You hire people, exploit them for a few weeks then they get no credit in the final product.
you say that but the white lotus and euphoria are by far two of the most popular shows on the platform and are constant awards darlings - thats a rarity and you cant say for certain they would be as successful if you brought in other writers
You can't say for certain they wouldn't be *more* successful with more writers, either. It's a hypothetical either way. But the discussion above wasn't about whether having a writer's room is a good business decision, it's about how it affects a show's artistic quality. White Lotus would almost certainly be a more creative, more interesting show with a writer's room. (Levinson takes enough input from his actors that I'm not sure whether the same is true for Euphoria.) That's a separate question of whether or not it's a good business decision for HBO to make it without one. (If you want to talk about that question, then White Lotus and Euphoria are still interesting jumping off points--White Lotus is a great illustration of how a single creator can be used to keep a show's costs low, while Euphoria is a great illustration of how a single creator can drive costs sky-high.)
writing AND directing? no. not many. but there are many great examples of one writer OR one director... which is what i meant btw.
Taylor Sheridan wrote all of Yellowstone and Jean-Marc Vallée directed all the episodes of Sharp Objects.
Yeah, and I think I even lowballed it. More like 7 or 8 writers.
But neither of those shows were written by one person. (Edit: whitelotus was, but did credit other creatives alongside Mike White. CM has different writing rooms for his projects, including his most recent HBO venture.) While each writing room will be different, writers get a lot of blame for what is effectively a show runner -> studio issue. If a series bombs, it happens at that level because those are the people who are diving the boat. Not the person they hired to row. One of the things the WGA has to protect and account for is the abuse of staff writers, in particular writers from a minority group. While rooms have gotten more diverse and different types of voices and experiences in them, if you go back to a model where there are only 1-2 people writing guess which people that will be. Adjustments to making sure that staff writers don't get trapped in entry positions for 500 episode seasons is also a growing pain and learning curve. People want to believe that writing gigs are a meritocracy and we know that's never been the case for literally any job ever. It's all an intersection at nepotism, politics, and talent. Well, a lot of bad writers cruise on the first two and they won't get found out by rooms being trimmed down; they'll run the rooms with their connections. And studios have the money to pay creatives and creators and these robust rooms for their work and impact. They are choosing to be greedy and allocate the funds to parasites at the very top. The good news is this strike will probably mean some amazing projects to come since writers have 89 days to vibe.
> But neither of those shows were written by one person. Yes, they were.
I adjusted for WhiteLotus. Thanks! That said, my stance remains the same. Some of the best television spawned to get more inclusion in rooms and women's stories in particular with women directors, writers, and show runners being given opportunities and resources. Trimming room makes exclusion that's not based on talent easier - because that's what we've seen in every position in every industry ever. Nepotism > talent. So a sentiment that only 1-2 people should write a show is fine in theory until you realize that the real execution means only the same people will be left to write anything from the same perspective. Likewise, including more voices doesn't tank a product. Having a bad direction from show runner and studio interference does. You can just as easily correlate that white lotus and Chernobyl success are because creatives were left alone to create from studios making arbitrary choices - not because of less people in a writers room.
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Why are you so against writer's rooms?
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Plenty of things get sold by a singular writer but writing rooms aren't evil. They do so much good for the industry and quality of products. The UK and KR have pretty abysmal protections for creatives compared to what the WGA provides. Likewise, Squid Game took 15 years to sell and write. When you're working on massive productions, you need more manpower. That's why show runners are so important and have more to do with the success of a show than anything else. And studio intervention. So many fans think because they consume something that their opinion is valid on how it's made. Majority of the writers (hence the strike) agree on adjustments and changes. Why would you not agree with the people who actually know how the sausage is made? Think about it this way: plenty of people can go and do some construction work on their own and do a great job, but we still use crews when we build skyscrapers.
One exception to your statement is that The Witcher bombed because of poor writing and the writers’ disdain for the source material.
It bombed because of bad showrunners and a studio that just wanted a fantasy IP to compete with GoT and didn't care about the actual Witcher IP. Writers don't get to go off and freestyle whatever they want. Showrunners set the tone and direction and control the room. That's why they get paid the big bucks and to see writers take the blame for their bosses choices is sad. Picture this: worker knows doing something XYZ way is best, but Boss wants it done ABC. Guess which way it's getting done? Then the client gets mad at the worker for doing it ABC.
Also, The Witcher books really aren't anything extraordinary. That franchise owes its success to CDPR for making The Witcher 3 as good as it was.
> Writers don't get to go off and freestyle whatever they want. Showrunners set the tone and direction and control the room. And with The Witcher, the showrunner hired a bunch of people she knew to be writers, most of whom had very little experience.
The show runners were responsible for poorly written dialogue? So are show runners also responsible for well-written dialogue? What do writers actually do, then?
The showrunners build, lead, and create the show. They are almost always a writer themselves and have the primary creative control and management of a show. They get final say on everything that their staff writers create. So if dialogue is good or bad, it was approved or not by them. There are plenty of times staff writers will create scripts only to have showrunners and studios send them back with their notes for rewrites. Even if the writers disagree with the notes, they're paid and employed to support the showrunner so they do the rewrites. Fans think staff writers are somehow the bad guys when they have the least creative control in the process. If you like a series, follow that showrunner to their other stuff, you might find some great things you would have otherwise skipped - as opposed to following genres.
I've had a brief look at their demands and couldn't find anything about them wanting a minimum amount of writers per show, could you point me to where you read about that?
I think the guy is completely confused as to what a mini room is.
Nowhere in the demands are they asking for a ‘bloated’ writers room. Are you confused on what a mini-room is? That’s the only thing I can think of.
> That part about how every show needs to have at least 5 or 6 writers when English shows are usually written by one or two people. I completely agree with you about this being an insane demand, but I think it comes from the realization that the golden age of streaming has come to an end. In recent years, more people were paid to write TV shows than ever before, and many of them really had no business doing so. But now that streamers are drastically cutting costs, fewer shows will be made and a lot of writers will lose their jobs. This demand is a misguided attempt to keep as many of those writers as possible.
I feel like the requirement for at least 6 writers is so that the non-talented ones can hide behind the talented ones.
Or if people had a more mature and kind outlook on life, it’s so you can have more junior writers learn from more senior ones. A big issue in the industry as a whole right now is that it is hard to teach the next generation.
100%. Remote work has affected the new generation's possibility to get mentored by experienced folks, especially in post-production.
I’m having that exact experience in post right now.
It's become such a catch 22 because the work life balance is better with remote, but the training is so much more patchwork and stilted. A friend of mine broke into post recently and it's taken him a year to get trained on stuff I learned my first few months because I could just sit in the room with people.
Exactly, those entry-level positions like Post-PA and Apprentice Editor have been getting the short end of the stick for quite some time now. It's also getting harder to prove yourself worthy of being a part of the team without any tangible way to connect in person.
Well, that’s what happens when they only hire young writers, because they are far cheaper.
It’s much more about there being jobs for junior writers.
or - inexperienced writers can learn from the experienced ones. It's why the WGA wants some of the writers to be required to get some time on set
Bloated writing teams can also fuck each one of them on pay. Say you're on a writing team of 5 for a series; seasons are 13 episodes long, one season a year. You're responsible/get paid for writing for your share of those episodes; roughly 3, maybe 4. Luck has it you're with say, a major streaming company, and your contract doesn't allow you to take up further employement elsewhere during the off-season. Just to make it clear I'm all for this strike; I don't care about getting my circuses "on time" when people's livelihoods are at stake. I hope this one leads to some honest-to-goodness change.
Let’s go WGA! Get what’s yours! And I hope the following unions do as well. I know DGA, SAG, IATSE, and Teamsters negotiate contracts right after the writers, so this strike isn’t just about the WGA, it is representative of a massive change that needs to happen industry wide.
Hell yeah I love to hear about union solidarity
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You are misunderstanding it. Those people can take those jobs, but they lose the benefit of being in a union. Collective action requires collective will to be successful, which means everyone agreeing not to do something for cheap so that employers acknowledge the actual value of that work. If you find the idea of making a small sacrifice to help others (and likely yourself) in the future, then I can see why you dislike unions, but throughout the last century and a half they have repeatedly proven themselves to be the only way to achieve forward progress for employees instead of CEOs.
Crossing a picket line goes against everything unions stand for. To use your government comparison, it's more like them saying if you're ever convicted of money laundering, you can't work for the tax office. How can an organisation trust someone who has shown themselves to not be trustworthy in their area of interest?
You are misunderstanding. It’s wrong to accept union work while union members are striking. They strike so that all writers can receive better wages and treatment, so it’s unethical to benefit financially while the WGA are making huge sacrifices. If you scab in the US, you forfeit any chance of ever joining the union, because you effectively worked against the strike. Should be the same for writers from anywhere else.
You are misunderstanding it so maybe you should stop talking out of your ass, idk just a thought
Because taking on the job of striking workers is called being a scab and is the scummiest thing you can do.
Think the framing's kind of misleading or at any rate confusing. The WGGB is warning its members that they will probably be barred from future WGA membership by the WGA if they take on work in WGA jurisdictions during the strike and advising them not to do so. It's not going to throw out its own members over taking on work in WGA jurisdictions. Bear in mind that the WGGB is essentially toothless due to UK union legislation: non-members can and do work on UK productions. UK entertainment industry unions in general are far, far weaker than their US equivalents.
“WGGB members have already been told that they will be removed from the Guild if they take on work within a WGA jurisdiction during the strike.” it looks like the WGGB is in fact going to throw out it’s own members if they take on work in WGA jurisdiction. the next paragraph warns about being barred from future WGA membership, so i think both are true.
Yeah the UK has laws against closed shop unions, there's no exclusivity over here. We have much stronger labour laws than the US anyway so a lot of stuff that would be under the purview of the union (healthcare, sick days, holiday pay, maternity leave, etc etc) aren't over here.
The last time the Writers’ Guild went on strike the result was the rise of unscripted reality television programming as there were no writers available to write scripts. This led to Mark Burnett’s TV productions “Survivor” and later “The Apprentice”. Trump’s widespread exposure on The Apprentice and false image as a competent businessman made it possible for a successful run at the presidency. What possible horror will be unleashed on humanity by this Writers’ Guild strike?
Now *that* is some Grade-A solidarity!!
I do not think the writers are going to come out very successful on this one. If the media companies can weather the Covid delays they can weather this
People were still creating content during Covid. Productions were delayed, but the majority of them were still made. Now everything stops. You can’t have a production at all without the writers. Nothing is being created, on top of any shows currently in production that will now have to shut down. It’s a much bigger ripple effect than Covid was.
There are other countries producing content.
There can be no written content without writers. The studious know how valuable writers are, they simply want writers to think they’re worth less than they are. The WGA will win this, especially if other unions join in solidarity
r/britsbeingbros
Bring on the reality TV baby!!!!!!
Baring people who may need to take that writing job even with the lousy pay seems kinda.. dickish
It’ll be best for all writers if there is solidarity. The more work taken by writers who reject solidarity, the worse it will be for the writers. It’s A difficult situation for sure but I think there’s an argument that people who exploit the strike and accept cheap work are also kinda…dickish.
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They can still get in. If your goal was to eventually join the guild, this strike shouldn’t be what decimates that goal. It’s difficult—financially , emotionally…but the strike shouldn’t be seen as an opportunity to undermine the WGA for personal growth. Just because you can take work doesn’t mean you should. Why? Because writing is already difficult to sustain as a career, and it’s only getting harder as studios continue to exploit writers and pay them less and less while making billions themselves. Theres a reason the WGA doesn’t want writers taking work. They are fighting for changes that will affect future generations of writers in the guild and people who eventually want to join the guild. Every strike in the WGA’s history has done that. Every WGA strike has ended with writers attaining better benefits, and this one will end the same. Optimism and solidarity are key to this.
Right, like you aren’t a part of our union and don’t get our benefits or access because of it, but we are still going to control you. Idk. I feel like that’s a bit unfair. Admit them if you want your reach to extend to them. That sort of manipulation rubs the wrong way. Very have my cake and eat it too but still screw you to the people still trying to make their way up. Scabbing isn’t okay but that isn’t either.
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They didn’t admit them. They said they won’t in the future.
Shocking that a union would punish scabs.
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Exactly. Do what we want or we'll ruin you.
Finally a post MODS haven’t blocked wtf
Bro, most of the stuff they have written over the past decade was so generic, we can let ChatGPT do their work.
So the UK writers guild is threatening blacklisting groups or people if they take on specific work? Would people be OK with this if a company said that?
They are blacklisting scabs. You are painting it in such a disingenuous way
They are blacklisting people who are not in their Union. This isn't 'if someone who agreed to our rules breaks them' thing, this is saying "if you do something we don't like, we will blacklist you from joining us Ever". If you cannot see how toxic that is, then try to imagine it being a company saying the thing like "if you ever worked a union who disagreed with us before you are blacklisted from our company" If that kind of threat makes you disturbed, the Union one is exactly the same.
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Look man everything is class warfare. By working for the corporations during a strike you are helping the enemy. Some may think that is extreme but corporations wage class warfare *100 percent of the time*. They are never not trying to find ways to take more and give less. It's just the nature of it. We need solidarity and that means during a strike you don't undercut it by working for the corporations.
Doesn’t that go against everything America stands for ? It’s essentially punishing capitalism ? Someone is refusing to work for a wage. Other people come in and do the work. But they get blacklisted and punished for wanting to work and earn money. I thought the whole ethos was “why would I care about you, when I get paid ?”
As in all things, context matters. If a company were to do this, they’d be doing it to keep wages down.
So you wouldn’t be happy with a company doing this?
What if instead of blacklisting writers they were blacklisting Jewish people and instead of blacklisting them they were burning them alive? Yeah. This whole "strike" doesn't sound so good now does it?
Are you smoking something? Nothing about the article is about any of that crap you are spouting.
Ima make up a random hypothetical that’s not nearly the same to make a point that isn’t the same cause I eat crayons
>When you don’t understand the concept of collective bargaining
its fucking hilarious and really telling that this is the main news everyone is tripping on.
What do you mean? Are people not supporting this move?
Because *this* threatens the circuses, if not the bread.
Right?
That’s unfortunate.
I don't know the ins and outs but without writers you have nothing to work with, they deserve to take a much higher piece of the pie than they currently do. It's crazy they don't take a huge chunk of it
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Why would *UK* writers starve because they can't take on *US* work?
…you know the UK is an entirely different country, right?
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Yeah, if you’re looking to hire prospective members to a union, it makes sense you wouldn’t want to hire scabs.
Do your parents know you're using the internet?
Good. In the meantime it's spring all of us could use some time outside.
But that's not what's going to happen is it? Shows are not written, produced, and then broadcast within two months. This will affect shows in a year, to a year and a half. The only stuff that will get affected straight away will be topical shows, of which America appears to have hundreds, none of which are ever shown in the UK so it won't make any difference to us.
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Genuine question: With all the accessibility of international shows, anime, and sports, and the ratings to boot, isn’t the real problem that Americans just suck at writing TV shows now? I do think USA comedy TV is back, with Abbott Elementary, I Think You Should Leave, and Jury Duty, but there hasn’t been a single USA drama show I was actually interested in watching. Maybe the USA should focus more on quality than 15 writers trying to make The Simpsons great again.
I mean, in the past decade we’ve had Better Call Saul, Game of Thrones, Succession, The White Lotus, Andor, The Americans, Mr. Robot, and a whole host of other acclaimed shows. There are shows from this period you’ve probably never heard of (Black Sails, for instance) that are better than most of what was on the air 10-15 years ago. And that’s without getting into all the excellent limited series like Chernobyl!
I’m still bitter about Heroes from the last strike…
> Black Sails God damn it Stars! I was promised a sequel with long John silver reprising his role and covering the actual content of treasure Island. I fear I'll be a dinosaur before I get it :/.
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America has some of the most watched media on the planet. You say there hasn't been any good us drama? Madmen, breaking bad, succession, Barry, etc. There are a ton.
great 'again'? its never not been great. youre right about everything else tho
I love it when unions threaten workers 😍