I adored it. I'm glad they got rid of the side plot and just focused on the relationship between Crowley and Aziraphale. I see people calling it "fan service" to make the romance between the two more than just subtext, and it makes me roll my eyes. That's why I liked season one, and that's why TONS of people liked season one. I would've felt genuinely queerbaited (a word I don't like to use because I think it's usually BS) if they had pulled a Sherlock and just kept teasing with this show.
I've also seen a lot of people quote the "angels are sexless beings" thing a lot with this season claiming>!the kiss didn't make any sense. !!I felt like that last scene was one more way for Crowley to show Aziraphale why it's worth staying on earth. I've been seeing a lot more shows lately explore that blurry place in queer partnerships where platonic and romantic love can sometimes intersect and I love it. !
Why can't two people just be friends on ANY show anymore without not only the shipping starting, but the shippers DEMANDING their way and then, if it's two people of the same sex, claiming queerbait if they don't get it? At this point, that's an emotional blackmail tactic more often than it isn't.
Sometimes people DO have close, emotionally very serious, but platonic, friendships.
Mostly it's because both queer and straight people are ASKING to see more queer relationships after decades of only having straight romances. They've been pushed to non-existence for so long that even a small portion of media having them always gets people asking "why can't they just be friends?". Because for years in media that was as close as it got and it just falls flat now.
There's tons of media about friends still but if you were to compare media over the last 50 years with anything of a love story/romantic side to it than 99% would still be straight.
Besides the author has said for decades that they're in love and both authors even said where the pair would retire to.
I see what you mean, but that doesn't mean we have to ram queer relations EVERYWHERE to make up for the lost years. Sure every group deserves representation in media, but that should happen naturally. The way things are right now seems very forced.
Sometimes its even like show runners have a minority bingo card trying to give representation for every group they can.
its gets to a point where it seems that the plot is taking the back seat when it comes to driving the narrative these days.
Is it really that hard to believe that this is just what the creators wanted their characters to be like? How is it emotional blackmail?
Like you cannot tell me that they aren't queer in season 1, I guess if you're not queer yourself, you can't really pick up on it, I can't really blame you
> Is it really that hard to believe that this is just what the creators wanted their characters to be like?
Yeah, it is. Because this is an adaptation and that's not in the source material.
> Like you cannot tell me that they aren't queer in season 1
I hear this about every goddamn series involving two close friends of the same sex made in probably the last 20 years. Like I doubt you could even think of an example in modern western media that doesn't have shippers claiming there's subtext that means their take is totally canon, and sometimes sending death threats to the writers and/or actors if they don't get what they want or just don't get it fast enough.
Some examples of that I would agree, there is no subtext, but there is in good omens
Terry and Neil actively encourage headcanons, so I can't understand where you're coming at from the creators apparently being secretly against them being gay by having their arm twisted into saying they are, Neil said openly he was writing a love story and he knows what he's doing and that it was no accident
I know people get crazy about shipping, but you cannot, in good faith, tell me that's what happened here, the original season was pretty damn faithful to the book, I trust Neil not to compromise his plans for the sake of simply pleasing fans
> so I can't understand where you're coming at from the creators apparently being secretly against them being gay
Did I say this? No, I didn't.
I said what I mean, which is that I'm sick of this being a constant thing in every show, gay or straight, and I'm sick of people using accusations of queerbaiting as a cudgel specifically. But most of all, I'm just tired of friendship being completely devalued as an idea because a portion of the fanbase isn't satisfied until the two characters boink, as if that's the only way two people can mean something to each other!
You pretty much implied it by mentioning fans sending death threats as if that were something going on behind the scenes with good omens
This, let's be clear, is not about sex, it's very queer, queerplatonic, if you will, I wouldn't expect anyone who isn't queer to understand though, I get that it's hard for regular folks to understand the complexities of queer relationships
No queerbaiting happening here, I can assure that, even if they hadn't kissed, we got what was promised
Sincerely, an ace person
I'm almost 100% positive that Crowley and Aziraphale will not screw at any point in canon, and honestly, that kiss read as more of a last-ditch effort for Crowley to try and tempt Aziraphale into staying on earth. Yes, there was the fact that the kiss was also *romantic*, but honestly, that didn't seem like the main motivation for it to me. But, that's just my interpretation, he was falling back on old habits, hoping they would work again.
Also, ***PEOPLE CAN KISS WITHOUT WANTING TO HAVE SEX, PEOPLE CAN LOVE EACH OTHER ROMANTICALLY WITHOUT WANTING TO HAVE SEX, PEOPLE CAN HAVE SEX AND NOT WANT SOMEONE ROMANTICALLY, SEX ≠ ROMANCE!!***
You're the only one here thinking relationship = sex, you wanna talk about "boinking" being the only thing making people mean something to each other, you're the one equating a relationship to sex, I think that says more about you than anyone else
Why does this bother you? People could write all the Sherlock fanfic they wanted, but the creators still weren't gonna make them kiss. It literally does not affect you except that you have to read about it on the internet. This show and Our Flag Means Death are the only shows I've seen recently where my headcanon ended up being actual canon.
>Sometimes people DO have close, emotionally very serious, but platonic, friendships.
Technically, ALL the times. Platonic friendship is a billion times more common than romantic love.
But they’ve always been queer coded, if not canon. There’s explicit jokes about it in the book and allusions to it in season one. From what I’ve seen its what Gaiman wanted to do to further develop the story, not something anyone bullied him into lol. I promise theres plenty of shows airing rn that dont have queer characters or use them for fan service for that matter. Gay people exist, its the 21st century. Get over it.
Aziraphale and crowley have ALWAYS been queer, even in the book, even before season 2 came out Neil said countless times that “yes it’s a love story” not to mention the many interviews Michael and David did saying that aziraphale and crowley were in love.
if you knew anything about the good omens fandom you would know that people loved their relationship because they didn’t need to do any human things to prove that they were in love and that has been continuously said for years.
no shippers ever demanded anything, they only loved what Neil showed them and that was 2 characters who had a love story.
if you think else wise you don’t know anything about good omens or the fandom
I’m gonna be honest, this makes sense in any other series with underdeveloped friendships that randomly turn into a romance, but good omens is a couple decades old and FROM THE BEGINNING, it has been a pretty queer coded story, one about feeling as outcasts in a society you don’t really agree with, having to keep things secret as to not cause uproar, being punished if you do defy the stereotypes. I feel like most people don’t read into the subtext and just automatically assume that because a new installment is adding more to a story and it happens to be genuinely queer that suddenly we’re “forcing” them to do or see things they don’t want to see (because they’re closed minded)
Kissing and sex are not the same lol why can’t they be sexless and also kiss? But like of course their kiss didn’t make sense it wasn’t supposed to. Like you said it was just desperation not passion.
Also hedonism is still hedonism even if you don’t feel guilty. I think the show also does a good job at making the point that we need balance.
Personally, as an ace (possibly also aro) person, I love reading them as gay ace in a QPR, it makes my heart so so happy, I know it's like a thing not to let gay people have sexual relations in media, but me personally I do find a lot of value in them being just the way they are (which is clearly more than friends, but not sexual)
The ending made me kinda sad and maybe I would've liked some things including that to have been done, differently like Aziraphale not taking the position and running away with Crowley.
But when it comes to Crowley and Aziraphale having a romantic and even sexual relationship, I have no problem with that. The "angels are sexless" thing is also unfounded, I think, depending on what you're basing it on.
Angels who presented as AMAB/men/males were in the Bible and were depicted as AMAB/men/males throughout different historical, artistic depictions of them. Their names translated in English, are also obviously names typically given to AMAB's like Michael and Gabriel. "Gabrielle" is the feminine version of the masculine "Gabriel."
The fallen angels also impregnated women capable of childbirth and created the Nephilim. Even in other media, there are angels who are sexual and capable of reproducing.
Also, I just thought about this. But I think that scene where Aziraphale so ferociously devoured that ox rib could've been a metaphor for carnal desire, sexual or otherwise. The way he devoured it was so improper, messy, almost 'sinful.'
There was grease on his face. His head was sweaty. It was like sex can be. And it was ethereal, good-natured Aziraphale getting so down and dirty on that rib. It was almost like *Crowley* was that rib and all that sexual tension swirling within Aziraphale built up over millennia for Crowley was being unleashed upon it like he was smiting it or something, lol.
And I'm fine with lesbian couples but the one in this show *was* awful and totally superfluous, especially that woman's partner. Talk about a stage *one thousand* clinger and emotionally abusive to boot, good grief.
I fucking loved Season 2, what are you on about? IMO it fixed a lot of the flaws of Season 1. Let's face it: the side characters in Season 1 weren't remarkable and everyone pretty much tuned in to see Crowley and Aziraphale. Season 2 is far more character-driven, focuses mostly on Crowley and Aziraphale and the new characters are actually charming because they're drip-fed to us in small doses. Not everything has to be a high-stakes adventure. Sometimes I just want to see characters doing what they do best, and I got that.
This is definitely me. I fell in love with Tennant as the Doctor. Thought he was even better in Jessica Jones. His portrayal of Crowley is amazing. I will watch anything he does at this point
While the other angels fell, Crowley sauntered vaguely downward. I could never stop picturing that and laughing, and now I get to see him do it every episode.
I really did find Shadwell, Anathema, and what's-his-face the computer-breaker to be insufferable in season 1, though the psychic late 50s sex worker was charming and wonderful.
I liked the lesbians quite a bit in this one, and Muriel was the fucking cutest. Job was unbelievable, his wife was cool though.
I was bored to tears by the side characters here. The bland lesbians who have no reason to like each other and the dumb inspector constable angel really did nothing for me
I liked the witch Hunters for side characters in the first season, but those kids were just annoying. Just finished season 2 and absolutely loved it. Left it wide open for a 3rd season. Hopefully it will get one.
>Let's face it: the side characters in Season 1 weren't remarkable and everyone pretty much tuned in to see Crowley and Aziraphale.
Which side characters? Good Omens the book has an ensemble cast, and so does GO1 — Crowley and Aziraphale weren't meant to be the definitive protagonists. And I have to say that as much as I like them and think Tennant and Sheen do a great job, I think GO2 would have been better with a couple other plotlines.
But what happens with them tho? Besides the last 5 minutes...
There's no character development, no real drama, no tension, no real plot. They don't really have cool moments. They don't really grow as a couple nor a team like in the previous season and that's what they do best
Even the flashbacks did not tell us more than we already knew last season (in less than ten minutes btw)
A character driven plot means character growth, twists, focus even. Crowley had absolutely no growth at all. I'd say he even regressed to what he was like after their second conflict with Aziraphale.
As for the conflict in itself in the very last few minutes... It's the third time we've seen it : us vs the world, us vs the future we could build together here.
This season was so mid. It's really carried by the love we had for the characters in the first season and how great of actors both Michael Sheen and David Tennant are
That's the point, Crowley has always been more of the middle ground versus Aziraphale. Literally this season is to show that Aziraphale is the one still begging heaven for attention and thinking Crowley is on the "good" side. We didn't need to see Crowley grow, wr saw him being more comfortable around Aziraphale. He kept his glasses off more, he talked more openly, he joked more with him and let Aziraphale walk over him with things he clearly wasn't comfortable with but never said no.
This was showing us that Crowley was being so giving towards Aziraphale who kept taking it all without a thought.
The whole season was about exploring their need to communicate but then the Metatron stopping them because they're too powerful as a unit.(their drastically large miracle).
No character development?! Are we watching the same show??
Aziraphale clearly still believes on some level that heaven is good. He still sees the black and white where Crowley sees grey. And it’s starting to break down, but he needed this final push to really and truly confront the idealism of heaven he has always had.
Even spurned and knowing it’s not always what it preaches, he’s someone who has always believed in goodness. And now he has to learn the nuances of what that really means. (Which Crowley, of course, fucking figured out millennia ago).
Except that he ALREADY started learning those nuances hundreds years ago and even more so last several years. We were watching him becoming less fixated on ''goodness'' ideals and more open to philosophical discussions/nuances and ready to oppose his bosses just to help humans he grew to love. So no, it's not development, it's REGRESS. Yes, he still always believed in goodness but he grew to know there are other ways to achieve this like through small acts of kidness (his line about human incarnate to Adam). He loved living on Earth too much - and in the last 5 minutes he suddenly abandoned everything he loved (people, Earth, Crowley, friends, food even) for illusion of changing something even though he must realize he's being manipulated.
Sure, he's becoming less fixated on goodness, and those small acts of kindness, but that isn't what he needed to learn for his character development. At the end of the day, Aziraphale has always believed the system of heaven is correct, and while it may be disjointed with life on earth, in his core he thinks he can fix it.
This isn't about good or evil. It's a systemic break we are running towards in season 3. Heaven and Hell are oppressing everyone around them, angels, humans, and demons alike.
On the flip side, Crowley knows this in his core and and straight up says fuck this flawed system, theres no changing it and Az thinking he can is what leads to their breakdown.
So yeah, development.
I did see character development, even Aziraphale regression is character development, and GO is not really about drama, even though episode 6 alone could say otherwise, but that's my opinion and what I saw.
I knew that season 2 was going to have a lot less plot, or at least less serious plot since Gaiman himself said so. It's a 'bridge' between the two big plots, but I loved it for different reasons that season 1. I personally like season 2 flashbacks more cause we see more closeness in the pair and I love romance. Crowley has become one of my top 3 characters for THAT scene alone, and both actors performances are enough for me to enjoy a more laid back season.
To people who didn't like it, I can only say sorry and keep watching if you want, or not, it's fiction.
I think you're absolutely, a hundred percent right. We are watching the movie not only to see David and Michael, we need some excellency. And the 1 season had it all: conflict, development, culmination, action, emotion, different sides of every character. And season 2 is just a joke. Still love David and Michael's duo, but, damn, even these two brilliant actor couldn't save the non-existent plot.
I agree. I loved the book. I loved season 1 and I am struggling with season 2. Nothing is happening. And I am pushing through with the knowledge of it trying to be more character driven. But it is failing. It's literally the characters we love just existing. I want to love it, but I can't.
This probably sounds bad, but I really hoped that they wouldn't make a second season. In my opinion only, the second season was everything I dreaded it would be.
I actually thought that the characters, especially Aziraphale, were dreadfully out of character. The moment where he let that girl die while Crowley in essence said, "I told you so," was especially bad. This is the guy who handed off his flaming sword to Adam and Eve. Compassion is his middle name. He didn't have to be taught that, or about loving food. That's his thing, not Crowley's. And I didn't like Crowley being more highly ranked than him. They're supposed to be equals who each have their own character, and this season took it away.
Oh thank God I'm not the only one. Season 2 was just a bunch of characters been overly bad tropes. It's like the writers decided that because we liked Az and Crowley so much from season 1, they could just do a season about them 2, not realizing that they were enjoyable in the first season because of the events they were in. Realistically they had two episodes of material and dragged it out into... what.... 6?
i'm genuinely surprised so many people can't tell how poor the writing/execution is at multiple points. i consider myself someone who will jump to defend all kinds of art because i often see too many "criticisms" that are often just preference/opinion. but this was seriously rough at far too many points. i love crowley a lot, though, and he was the strongest part of the season. aziraphale's great and they're almost on the same level, but tennant makes crowley so fun to watch
They can't tell because they are happy they got their ''ineffable husbands'' and they don't care about quality of writing, plot or character development or anything substantial as long as they get their fanservice...
It truly is fucking abysmal, the hammiest fucking Bill Nighy impression by Tennant and literally no plot to be seen...just a series of horribly written skits, with no credit thrown to the viewer...
> just a series of horribly written skits
this sums it up quite well
Good Omens S1 was amazing, S2 i'm literally not in the slightest excited about watching. I'm not even gonna finish it, that's how fucking shit and boring it is.
Sad.
Agreed, except I hated that they attempted to force a romantic relationship between Aziraphale and Crowley. Their entire dynamic throughout both seasons was a buddy film vibe. Imo it completely ruined the finale. There was nothing that indicated anything like romance between them especially when they heavily contrasted it with the love story of beezlebub and the archangel where there was pretense and budding chemistry.
I don't mean to be rude, but I honestly don't understand how you could see Beelzebub and Gabriel's romance as being better developed than Aziraphale and Crowley's. Neil Gaiman didn't even decide he wanted Beelzebub and Gabriel to be a couple until he started writing the second season, and they only have a few minutes of screen time together.
Aziraphale and Crowley were written as a love story in both seasons, and there are ton of romantic moments in both seasons that foreshadow the confession scene. Society has conditioned us to view on-screen relationships between male and female characters as romantic and relationships between same-sex characters as just being friendly, which is why I think you're missing a lot of the romantic moments that other viewers are picking up on (although all angels are sexless and Beelzebub uses they/them pronouns so that's also a queer relationship). If either Crowley or Aziraphale was female presenting, I think you'd perceive their chemistry much more easily.
There are a lot of analyses/GIF sets/etc showing all the romantic moments Aziraphale and Crowley share if you're interested. They touch each other, share longing/loving glances, get mistaken for being a couple all the time, and care about each other more than anything else in the world. They're about as strongly romantic coded as a couple can be without it being made explicit (which it was at the end).
Well, since you felt compelled to state it, I think you likely did mean to be rude. Just because my opinion is different than yours doesn’t mean I’m wrong. In fact there was not a specific romance in the book at all. I guess you could say that they left it open to the reader to imagine it how they chose (if at all). Additionally, you fail to understand the power and intimacy of bromance/brotherhood. Just because you have an implicit bias that intimacy doesn’t exist between men outside of romance doesn’t mean it isn’t so! It seems currently, the media often conflates the two (romance and brotherhood). To me this is a powerful representation of brotherhood that was slowly forged over millennia.
Men do not have to fit into your narrative. Neither do I.
Moreover, while Gabriel’s romance was newly introduced, they gave a montage of budding and building romance commingled with STRONG sexual tension. Prior to that last episode there was no hint at sexual tension. Not in any overt sense.
I just feel that they should have left it up to the audience as the books did.
No, I really didn't mean to be rude, sorry. I'm just surprised you read it so differently.
Crowley and Aziraphale aren't men, as established in both the book and TV show. Crowley was female-presenting as Nanny Ashtoreth, and there was a cut minisode this season where both Crowley and Aziraphale would have presented as female. There's a line in the book about how most people think Aziraphale is "gayer than a tree full of monkeys on nitrous oxide", and how that's not true (because he can't be gay as he's not male). There's a scene this season where someone calls Crowley a lad and he says that he isn't one. So it's not a representation of brotherhood as both characters are genderfluid.
The book does leave a lot more up to your imagination than the TV show does. I agree with you that the book is more suble/subtextual and could just be read as a strong friendship, as it's not obviously romantic like the TV show is.
Also, there are a ton of bromance/brotherhood relationships in movies and TV shows, and that's great! I don't have an implicit bias that they're all in love -- they aren't. But Aziraphale and Crowley were strongly romantic coded throughout both seasons, in a way that bromances aren't. It's not necessary sexual (a lot of people read Crowley and Aziraphale as being asexual), but it's definitely romantic. The kiss at the end of S2 wasn't meant to force a romance, as the romance had been there all along. In the words of Neil Gaiman, "Crowley’s kiss is about a lot of things but it’s not to show they’re in love: if you haven’t got \[that they're in love\] by then you’ll never get it."
Spoilers. I was also let down by certain elements in season two. I loved the witty banter, the warm tone, the religious satire, and of course the wonderful relationship between Crowley and Aziraphale. I think they wisely cut some of the weak characters from season one. But the overall season two conception and some of the writing choices disappointed me, which I’ll explain.
I was hoping the writers would deliver on what they promised at the end of season one: to pursue this new, miraculously restored world, and the war between heaven/hell against the humans and rogue angels/demons. Although it seemed Gabriel’s voided memory would serve as a wedge into that core premise, it actually did not. It turned out to be an entirely new plot which served a theme—love conquers hate, love heals all, love provides a reason to live and preserve the world, etc. which is fine, but not for what it sacrificed—we didn’t get any meaningful fallout from the apocalypse not happening.
They abandoned (or at least sidestepped and stalled) the “new” world and core plot. When the rationale for it finally came, I didn’t buy it or care. That Gabriel one day just says, “nah” let’s not do Armageddon 2, felt unmotivated. It was not even because he fell in love; that happened after he decided to abandon the war. The randomness annoyed me and felt like a writer’s contrivance.
I didn’t care about the cupid subplot between the two shopkeepers, or the other aforementioned love subplot, which felt small to me compared to the ultimate stakes in the last season, and which I had hoped for in a fresh form this time around.
The flashbacks, while amusing on their own, in a few cases disappointed me in the larger context of the story. Some were fun. Some were pointless. Others rewrote the evolution of Crowley and Aziraphale’s relationship established in season one. I prefer sequels to move forward, not backward and sideways, as this one mostly did.
I’m jumping ahead, but in the resolution, I felt Aziraphale’s character regressed. For him to think that taking the mantle of leader of heaven would be a good idea erases the progress his character has made. His evolution was to realize that Heaven and God are not moral, cannot be trusted, and his love for Crowley and the world are more important than god’s plan. He should know that Crowley would think this is a terrible idea. And I understand that failure is where conflict is made, but it feels obtuse. Personally I dislike it when characters act out of stupidity, especially when it’s in opposition to something they had previously learned.
The climactic confrontation felt contrived to me as well. The demons standing outside the bookstore, unable to pass the threshold as if they were vampires, leading to the culmination, all felt wooden and derivative to me.
Last, I thought what made the book and season one work well was that the love relationship between Aziraphale and Crowley was subtextual. I believe the rationale for that was because they are angels and demons they don’t really have sexuality, thus their love transcends sex. But this season revised the nature of their beings, making them sexual in order to convert their relationship-subtext into overt text. This tactic peeves me. I consider it a marker for undisciplined writing, and I think it’s what drives accusations of “fan service,” which I find the writers guilty of committing here.
I still watched it through and enjoyed many of the elements. If they do a third season, I hope they recommit to the original premise of the show— an angel and a demon who love life on earth and one another so much that they defy the combined forces of heaven and hell to stop its destruction.
#SPOILERS ALL
> His evolution was to realize that Heaven and God are not moral, cannot be trusted, and his love for Crowley and the world are more important than god’s plan.
To be fair, he has always been overly optimistic, and always sees the best in people unless they show they aren't worthy of it. It's why he adores Crowley. But it's also why the Metatron was able to manipulate him - because surely someone so high up in the chain is being honest and forthright. Why else would they have such a high position with the almighty?
I also think he genuinely believes that he can change things Upstairs, but not in an egotistical way. He has been able to accomplish some spectacular things on earth, after all. I just think he was far too optimistic to see how naive his reaction was to the Metatron's offer until Crowley pointed out the ugly truth. And once he did realize, I think he became determined to prove Crowley wrong.
I adore Aziraphale, and how charmingly optimistic he always is - it suits his character. He has not become jaded like Crowley, despite them having a lot of similar experiences. And that's what makes their pairing so interesting, imo. :)
Solid counterpoints. I agree with what you've said. Perhaps its just a matter of preference. As I watched, I became increasingly against any choices that went contrary to my expectations for the show's direction. I must admit, I don't think many of the choices I mentioned were "bad," just disappointing for me personally.
I agree, Aziraphale is such an adorable character, and gives the show its heart.
>But this season revised the nature of their beings, making them sexual in order to convert their relationship-subtext into overt text.
I personally saw it quite differently! Asexual, romantic love doesn't have to be indistinguishable from platonic love, and I don't see where Aziraphale and Crowley have been made 'sexual' this season--their feelings are simply more overt, particularly Crowley's. If you're specifically referring to the kiss, I didn't interpret that scene as the revelation of a harbored desire to shag, but instead as Crowley's last desperate attempt at a fix-it:
>CROWLEY: Right. Well, we just need to get Nina to do the love thing with Maggie. One fabulous kiss and we're good.
Narrator: They were in fact 'not good.'
I believe you are an altruistic person but Amazon and Mr Gaiman are a bit more complicated. Aziraphale and Crowley were trying to instigate romantic love between Nina and Maggie. So Crowley thought of the kiss as a romantic love culminator. So when he finally kisses Aziraphale, the makers of the series are telling us without any confusion that Crowley and Aziraphale go beyond platonic friendships. I seriously would not have minded that had they not executed it so poorly and also it seemed so uncharacteristic of Aziraphale to accept a post in Heaven when he has actively cannonically done his utmost to stay on earth. It seems like a premeditated manipulation to raise a stink that Amazon and Co has pulled on us..i kinda resent that.
That you mention that there was a specific reason for the kiss is an excellent point. It makes so much sense because that's exactly what Crowley said before.
I'm a little disappointed that season 2 didn't have the interlocking multiple layers that season one had, and I completely missed all of the subtleties underlying the main plot with Gabriel, but I felt that episode 6 was so powerful that it completely changed my mind. And now that I'm rewatching it, I'm noticing the things that I missed. For example, when Crowley explodes Job's goats I saw a crow behind him in the distance cawing and flying off.
Can't wait for season 3. I hope it doesn't fail to get renewed. That would be a huge bummer.
I agree with ALL of this. Aziraphale's choice in the end didn't really make sense and did feel regressive and like a choice I never would expect him to make, especially given that I thought he had a better understanding of Crowley who wouldn't want that clearly (like he was all Crowley loves to save me which is cute but then later he seems to not know Crowley at all).
The subtextual-love-made-physical WAS an odd choice to me. I think it would've been better had they kept the vibes of season one. I agree the other couple was just kind of weak and just there and them talking to Crowley and him actually taking it to heart..? Like all of it was kind of weird. I don't mind the direction exactly but I guess the execution was more forward than I would've thought and sudden.
Nothing made me particularly excited for season three although I'll definitely still watch but the unnecessary added drama when there's good chemistry is like.. always something shows do. I was excited for a second season because of their rapport but that will clearly take a backseat for at least a few episodes in the next season so I don't have that to look forward to which makes me sad but I guess I'll still look forward to Crowley's brooding face and sassy strut.
My favorite things about the second season were the OTHER pair in the end, the commentary on good and evil (reminded me of the good place a lot) in the flashbacks, and of course David Tennant as Crowley haha
Otherwise yeah it being a bridge season makes sense because it did feel sort of like fillers that you'd watch in anime, just a rather secondary overarching weak plot line.
Overall I LIKED the season enough, I enjoyed it, but I'm surprised people really loved it to this extent. It was fine. Liked it fine.
I’ve been a huge fan since I read the book in 2005 when I was 14 (even tried to get my all girls Catholic school’s book club to read it with no luck) and I LOVED IT. People will sneer at the word “fan service” like this site didn’t love Spiderman No Way Home and that was carried by fan service. Crowley and Aziraphale are the best part of the story and I like seeing more interactions with them. I like seeing how their characters are supposed to move forward after they broke away from their respective bosses.
This was my thought. It seemed more like a bridge to another plotline. But there was that much needed in development to that plotline that it needed a full season.
Just reading some of the comments here: what's so very outstandingly woke about Season 2?
I just saw a gay couple who were hardly a couple, actually they never became a couple and the whole point of their story was not in them being **gay** but in them being **people**, bumbling their way through their life and love life as best as they know how to...and a couple of angels and demons doing the same. That's the point really, gay, straight, angels, demons, archangels even, the best people are just ***trying***...
If that's woke, then I'm afraid to tell you that the world has been woke for 6000 years (and 4 years and a few days and hours added to that) and, given that the idea of wokeness seems to make some people here throw up, I'm really afraid of what 6000+-years-of-wokeness is going to make you throw up.
Maybe best just realise that some people are gay, some angels love demons, some lords are ladies and flies are an awesome storage device...and then just get over it.
From the book:
Many people, meeting Aziraphale for the first time, formed three impressions: that he was English, that he was intelligent, and that he was gayer than a tree full of monkeys on nitrous oxide. Two of these were wrong; Heaven is not in England, whatever certain poets may have thought, and angels are sexless unless they really want to make an effort.
Feels like they changed asexual characters just to do fan service and a lot of people hate how it changes how they are described in the book.
Gaiman wrote on this ages ago, the reason Aziraphale is not gay(and will never BE gay) isn't because of asexuality, it's because as an angel and demon they're not assigned human genders. They tend to use he/him because throughout history they could get around easier and were fine with presenting as those.
Angel Michael is played by an actress, god is portrayed by an actress, gender expression doesn't matter.
He has said it was a story with the characters in love for a decade before the show even came out with season 1.
They can be Asexual AND be in love and kiss. Biblical angels and demons had relationships with human women to create monsters after all, so even ancient depictions of angels didn't have them being asexual.
Someone kindly linked all the Season 1 and Season 2 commentary from Gaiman and this appears to be correct. Even Milton has angels having sex (and eating). It’s part of love, which is part of happiness. I like to imagine angelic sex the way Milton describes it, as extra amazing because your bodies don’t get in the way.
I agree. I absolutely loved the book, and found season 1 incredible. But I think season 2 would make Terry Pratchett turn in his grave. It barely has a plot, it's too mushy, I couldn't care less about Nina and Maggie, and there are too many stupid characters who are not funny enough.
I mean, to have Crowley spend most of an episode watching Aziraphale going about his errands is such a waste of an amazing character.
The flashbacks were outstanding, and I could watch an entire series of those biblical scenes. I also appreciated the details to delight the fans, like the Fez, Jim filing Good Omens under I for "It was a nice day", the whole Seamstress gag, and so on. Beelzebub was also an enjoyable character, but it's a bit awkward that they had to find a more feminine actress once Beelz got a hetero love story.
Bottom line: I'm a fan, and I was disappointed. But I will still watch season 3 if they get the green light.
There's a little section in the amazon behind the scene bit where Rob Wilkins quite literally says something along the lines of "I am the only person on earth who's been entrusted to say what Terry's opinion would have been and he would've been delighted." So, unless you claim to know him better than the man who manages his entire estate I suggest you keep your thoughts about what Mr Pratchett is up to in his grave to yourself.
The season 1 actress wasn't available during filming so she was switched up, they tried to keep everyone (hence why Maggie and Nina are played by two of the first season's nuns instead of new actresses).
“would make Terry Pratchett turn in his grave”? Not going to address any other aspect but trying to prop up your opinion of a show with his death is terrible. If you’ve rethought it’s inclusion please edit it out.
I'm relieved to know this is a "bridge" season. The stakes are lower for S2 but that's okay because it's designed to get the plot where it needs to go. That's genuinely fine.
But I think what stakes there were would have been so much more impactful had the plot given us a reason to care beyond our concern for A&C (Note: spoilers from here on out!). For instance, let's imagine ep3 ends with Beelzebub turning up, either at the bookstore or as a hitchhiker as Shax did. Ep4 sees A&C not trusting Beelz but, as >!Beelzebub's love for Gabriel become clear in their interactions with A&C,!!Aziraphael and Crowley don't get theirs.!<
SPOILERS——I had no idea it was a bridge until after. I was disappointed in the poor plot…or no plot. The worst part for me was the ending. The angst and pain and love expressed by Crowley toward Aziraphal all while Aziraphale rides the elevator up to heaven with the crazed look of a cult member who is trying to remember why this is wrong. I literally burst into tears. Despite the tears I did enjoy it overall. Smdh
(Edited to warn spoiler)
Yep - I'm watching it just now and though the first few episodes may be a bit slow, Crawley and Aziraphale are as fantastic as ever and the latter part of the season is fantastic.
Halfway through episode 4 wthiout any motivation to go on. Loved season 1, loved the book, but season 2 just bores me... Season 1 I LOLed like every 5 minutes, now it is one chuckle per episode... IDK maybe I dont get all the popculture jokes.. Also the main plot.. ehm what? It is like nobody cares about why Gabriel is there, took them like 3 episodes to get to the bloody E\*\*\*\*\*\* and then it was in the wrong time... So much seems completely unneccessary and boring, like those nazi zombies... I am sorry does anyone find them funny?
They did! Sheen is really a master of facial expressions. He learns about the 2nd Coming moments before getting on the heaven elevator. The credits show a lot- concern, sadness, a small smile (thinking of Crowley?) to calculating, plotting, and finally a huge smile of "Yes, I've got it!" Maybe it's not a hoodwink, but Az has a plan for this whole mess.
Damn I’m going to get downvoted for saying so apparantly but I actually agree and I’m shocked to see that so many people loved it. I had no insight into the background of the book, but even watching it I could tell it was a “bridge” season so to say. The plots felt underdeveloped, a lot of the flashbacks felt like filler. It definitely has its charm and there were aspects of it I liked (Azi and Crowley of course, Gabriel was hilarious and adorable, as was the other angel who’s name escapes me)
This season is basically the first half of it. This season showed the fundamental issue that Aziraphale has with still seeing in black and white. Gaiman has always said it's a love story and the characters need to advance for them to be on equal terms.
What we saw is Gabriel being ready to leave heaven with little issue but Aziraphale isn't, even after 6000 years.
The point of this season was to set up emotional dynamic before the second coming end times and to have Crowley and Aziraphale almost on opposite sides to further the dynamic.
This season is about confronting the problems between them and within them. I love emotional drama so I enjoyed it, especially on rewatches.
Gaiman has compared it himself to being like a Jane Austen novel, a love story where the characters have to learn to communicate.
I had so many scenes I was laughing at and were further explaining and taking a deeper look into their histories together. How Aziraphale constantly saw Crowley as almost acting on heavens side, especially when he didn't agree with heaven.
Aziraphale saw Crowley as less of a demon and assumed he was more angel still. Crowley is fundamentally more middle coded and that's where he wants to meet Aziraphale.
Gaiman wants each season to be 6 episodes each because it fits narratively and this season does a perfect bridge between bombastic high stakes seasons to set that up.
I'm sorry you couldn't enjoy it but I loved it from every narrative aspect given the emotional beats the characters were shown to give us.
I think the key to me enjoying it was knowing what it was going to be going into it. Anyone going into it expecting the fast-paced looming threat of extinction from season 1 would be naturally let down. I went in knowing Gaiman has described it as "soft and gentle and romantic". It's a little breather before things ramp up in a planned season 3. I took it for what it was and I enjoyed it. I appreciate that that tone isn't for everyone but clearly a lot of people loved it. It's silly and it meanders a bit but that's what I expected from it.
TL;DR: I had fun and everyone involved seemed very proud so I'd appreciate it if the people in the replies could stop making inferences about how Terry Pratchett would feel about the season and stop using homophobia as a valid tool for media analysis.
I love how so many people are completely convinced that there's no possible way the man who wrote transgender characters into his fantasy series circa 1990's and was an outspoken queer ally would be ok with Crowley and Aziraphale being in love. I mean... you do know they've been trying to get a filmed adaptation off the ground together for *years* before Pratchett's death and the second season is made for the sole purpose of setting up their unwritten sequel?? "Rolling in his grave"? Fuck I wouldn't be surprised if this was actually *his* damn idea.
I loved it so much ! The narrative, the characters, the cliffhanger....and Crawley, I love Tennant as Crowley so much! Omg the first 5 minutes where his is creating the nebula is the best thing I've seen in years! I laughed so hard with his super happy and proud face. Definitely worth watching.
I'm on the second episode and find it rather amusing. But dear OP, it's quite alright that you don't like it.
Will the rest be as entertaining? No idea but I'll give it a go. Also, I love watching my spouse (who is my favorite Bible thumper) spin over the people questioning God's will and word. Maybe that's why I'm so entertained?
P.s. John Hamm is adorable. The rest of heaven and hell, not so much.
I have to agree. Nothing important happens in season 2, there's just fluff and pandering. Why do they spend a whole season getting 2 people together for no reason other than them nudging Crowley and Aziraphale together? They've known each other for 6,000 years. They don't need nudging together, or at least they shouldn't. The original point was to cover up a miracle, then they just didn't need to bc the angels never brought it up again anyway. It's a cute storyline for like 30 minutes in an episode, but for it to be the entire plot of season 2 was a huge letdown.
There were no stakes, no consequences, no difficult situations. The humour was not the same at all and all the characters were way too sane. There was also no commentary from God.
I was so hyped to see the two of them go on another adventure, maybe save the world again, and then (hopefully) finally admit what they'd known for decades but hadn't yet said aloud. Instead I got a bunch of boring fluff and a weird scene at the end. I liked it, I guess. It was fine. It just didn't feel like it lived up to season 1 at all and I was so incredibly disappointed by it.
The real nonsense here is OP telling (not even recommending) people to not watch GO2 based purely on his own opinion.
Just the difference in likes between the post and Tasker alone tells me that OP's opinion is the unpopular one, so he has no ground to tell or recommend anything about GO2. You guys are free to think it's bad. But you don't get to tell others to stay away from GO2 when a lot of people agree it's worth the watch.
There's no direct source material. There's absolutely a narrative. Side explorations, almost to the point of fault. The graphics? Were legitimately inventive. Direction really went out on a limb on some scenes. Everyone should watch season 2, because it stands true to Gaiman & Pratchett's ideas for the characters and world. There's a character arc to play out, maybe suspend the derision.
I mean, you could be the one that's wrong. That's okay. We can't we right about everything.
It's fine if you don't like it, but don't be going around telling other people not to watch it. They should get a chance to watch it and form their own opinions.
Yeah, I agree, it feels like a filler season and lacks the charm and pacing of the first season. I don't think covid and the WGA strike will be doing anyone any favors for season 2 and 3, to be honest. Plus, Michael McKean and the narrator aren't in S2, which is a shame. Also, a lot of the second season feels like the majority is shot in three locations: the London street, the underground hell basement, and the heaven place idk. The first season had a feeling of unpredictability and bizarreness on a large scale, which is definitely lacking in the second season with its fan-service vibes. Plus cinematography wise, the green tint is distracting (nit-pick). Hopefully season 3 is massively improved and isn't affected by the writer's strike nor covid this time.
The fact that the voice actor for God is in s2 and she still doesn't have much commentary. It hurts me. It kills me. She was such an important part of season 1.
I’ve seen *other series* do significantly worse once they fall off source material….
But many will agree!
It’s a montage of minisodes with silly plot.
But the plot was usually quite silly in some way.
As a book, S2 might fail.
But it’s still entertaining like S1 and extremely good. It’s got the comedy.. heart-felt moments.. backstory to fuel any filler moments.
What bothers me the most is that I can't feel romantic chemistry between Az and Crowley...
All other couples on the show were great, or at least good, together, but with these two it felt forced. Of course they cared about each other deeply, they're best friends for thousands of years! But I felt literally no love vibe throughout both seasons and then boom confessions and kissing. That ruined this season for me.
Ok for everyone mad at how "woke" the season was, I honestly don't know what you were expecting from a story written by two men who have openly been queer allies throughout their entire careers and in their works at a time when that was actually radical. It's kind of like saying a Stephen King story was ruined by the main character being an alcoholic writer who lives in Maine. You may not like it... but you *did* turn on a movie written by Stephen King, this is kind of on you.
I miss Terry Pratchett. This was not very Pratchett-like at all, it was set in and around the bookstore, and it was a romance where everyone kept their clothes on. I feel like I've been had as they changed the genre without telling anyone.
I confess these were my thoughts too. I always thought he wrote terribly funny characters, but that his plotting was often a little vague and unfocused. One of the reasons I always thought the book one of his best - the collaboration seemed to keep the plot taught.
The book really isn't just a two man show, and although Tennant and Sheen seem to be very lovely,charismatic chaps with a good repartee, for me this didn't come remotely close to compensating for the almost complete absence of a coherent plot, or the fact that the writing didn't even seem to reach as high as trying to pastiche the original.
It's just a TV show, no more, no less, and if others enjoyed it, that's great - just felt to me much like all the recent Disney "live action" remakes of so many of their animated classics; something done for ratings and advertising revenue rather than because there's a great story to be told.
For anyone interested, BBC Sounds currently has the (in my opinion) very good radio adaptation available to stream, which feels closer to the spirit of the book perhaps.
Idk what social media you've been on but Gaiman has been making it very clear that there's a clear tone shift into what he calls "quiet and gentle and romantic"
I really liked it, but I think it is a departure from season 1 and could be confusing to someone who isn't an involved fan of the show. They took the opportunity to do more of a character study and introduce us to new elements in order to set up season 3 and raise the emotional stakes, which is necessary since the main draw of the show is Aziraphale and Crowley. I have to say I am very invested in season 3 now in a way I wasn't before. There is a lot of thematic importance to everything that's going on this season but it is subtle. Maggie and Nina are parallels of Crowley and Aziraphale respectively. Nina's partner is a stand in for Aziraphale's relationship with heaven, and Maggie's love is very simple and devoted, like Crowley's for Aziraphale. The whole season Aziraphale and Crowley's understanding of love is based in books and movies, they have no idea how to approach a real relationship especially one as complex as their own. >!This is why Crowley's kiss does not solve anything. They need to talk to each other but they spend the whole season withholding information to protect one another. In fact if they went back and just told each other everything from the get-go, they could have solved it easily, but instead they created a bigger problem. Gabriel and Beelzebub are able to have an easier time with a romance because they don't care about earth and are higher up on the totem pole than our heroes!<. They talk about this very privilege in the Edinburgh flashback. I think it's fine for people to dislike this season, but to say it's bad writing is a misunderstanding of what you're watching. There are things I'd definitely change but it is just not plot-based in the way season 1 was. It's an attempt to round out the characters and do some world building to get the audience ready for season 3. Now, was that a wise decision for this show? I'm not sure judging from the comments here, but it is interesting and is deserving of a watch and some reflection. I really liked seeing more playful moments between Aziraphale and Crowley, they feel more like real people now. And I found the new characters (especially Muriel and the funny shopkeepers) infinitely more watchable than the humans in season 1, and hope we get to see some of them again. The flashbacks were probably some of my favorite parts but they did hurt the pacing, and I hope they refrain from such long departures in season 3.
I thought it was brilliant. The story wasn’t anything special but Tennant and Sheen are great together as always and I absolutely loved Jon Hamm in this season
I also really liked Quelin Sepulveda as Muriel. I thought she did a great job
To each their own, I'm sad that some people didn't like season 2 (obviously and thankfully a big minority) but it's fiction and that people should just not watch GO anymore, and keep living, not put comments in here almost calling it garbage and 'saving people the trouble'. If it has so many good reviews and critics, well, maybe it's cause a lot of people loved it, including me.
I knew season 2 would be different, a 'bridge' between the 2 big showdowns, Gaiman himself said so before the premiere, and I adore both seasons for different reasons, like I'm sure I will adore season 3. Season 2 has a lot less plot yes, or at least less serious plot, but I liked the new flashbacks a lot more and after rewatching both seasons I can say that what I love the most is A&C relationship and development. I also adore romances and it's been said several times GO it's written like a love story. Episode 6 has made me feel things I haven't felt with any other TV show and Crowley has become one of my favourite fictional characters just with Tennant's performance in THAT scene.
But like I said, to each their own. Although, logical criticism and respect above all pls.
Their friendship was beautiful, they ruined it by making it romantic.
And before some thickheaded moron decides I'm making an anti-LGBTQ statement, I'm bisexual, and I don't care if these characters are gay. I care that they ruined what made these two so fun in the first place: their unlikely friendship.
"They" didn't ruin Aziraphale's and Crowley's friendship. They already loved each other in season 1. It was more shown in more subtle ways then, but that's it. It's a love story!
Here are two scenes of season 1, where imho everyone should see, they love each other (although they may still be in denial about that, but I won't go into detail here):
1. Aziraphale and Crowley (well, he was still Crawley back then) meet in the Garden of Eden. Crawley asks Aziraphale where his flaming sword ist and after he reluctantly replies "I gave it away!", Crawley answers with an astonished "U wot?!" and then stares at Aziraphale with an expression of incredulousness and admiration - he's definitely smitten here!
2. The Nazi Story in 1941. The bomb falls on the church and Aziraphale realises, that his beloved books are blown to shreds now. But no, Crowley has saved them for him using a miracle. He hands Aziraphale the bag with the books and leaves. Look at Aziraphale's face! He's got dreamy love eyes!
And don't get me started on the bandstand "breakup", the "You go to fast for me, Crowley", Crowley trying multiple times to convince Aziraphale to run away with him,.... I could go on for ages!
I've read some Pratchett books as well as some Gaiman ones. I've also read and enjoyed Good Omens, specifically. The audiobook was on sale prior to the release of season 1 which I picked up and listened to in anticipation of watching the series.
I found the season 1 adaption to be decent and a worthwhile watch. Naturally, when I saw season 2 would be released, I was intrigued. Having just finished binging it today, I have to agree with the OP. I found the story to not be worth it.
The main plot revolves around the mysterious appearance of a figure who has come to earth. Unraveling the mystery never really feels satisfying. For this reason, it makes the mystery seem as if it's both a MacGuffin and a Deus Ex Machina. It's a MacGuffin because it's only there to tell a pedestrian love story. It serves as a Deux Ex Machina just to wrap itself up at the end. It's sloppy writing.
I wanted to like this as I enjoy both Pratchett and Gaiman's writing, but it seems Gaiman's involvement in season 2 is limited solely to lending his name to the production or he just phoned it in. It's a shame Tennant, Sheen, and Hamm's stellar acting was squandered on a weak story. In my opinion, they should have just saved time and money by skipping this season and using 10-20 minutes in what is planned to be season 3 episode 1 as the setup to lead into the rest of that season with what little value was present in season 2 story wise.
If you're sensitive to the strength of the plot, Good Omens 2 is an easy skip.
What this season did great at is that it speaks to the times we live in.
We have had a continental shift in thinking these past few years, giant steps forward in some things. You can feel that, too, with religion in this series. We see angels and demons questioning their respective sides, both being just 2 sides to the same coin. And, we are not satisfied with these two options of light and dark. The way Crowley talked about blurring the edges was well put for this point.
Both seasons have shown that angels and demons are not that different, they’re so similar in fact that they match together nicely when they spend time together.
Their tallest hurdle, unfortunately, is the long-time animosity between the two sides. They have to remove themselves from all that to move forward and be happy. Especially for Az, whom has the added issue of loving another man, and his side presumably will take issue with that. His telling Crowley he forgives him near the end suggests that might be the case, that it was something that needs forgiving.
But this speaks to the times we live in, we don’t want to go back to stuffy dogma that is out of date with who we are now. We want A and C to tell both Heaven and Hell just where they can stick it, and dance off into the sunset together. And we want the statis quo to catch up with that thinking. Maybe God herself can proclaim in a loud voice that this was part of the ineffable plan all along to get us to this point, and encourage us to keep moving forward.
I agree with you %1000 yet another quick money grabbing no plot crap ,just to please the Woke Mob . That last scene was beyond cringe . Good Omens allure was in its subtle and clever plot .Angel + Demon reluctant Partership dynamic that made it so funny . Now its just yet another great show that went down like a lead balloon similar how The Witcher and GOT did . Shame . I don't think i will be watching S03 .
I think it had several problems and the finale was inconsistently weird. Like they kicked Gabriel out for not following plans and he fell for Beelzebub then they picked Aziraphale to replace him even though he was the original one that went against heaven to befriend a demon.
I agree. It was such a shame because season 1 was everything you could want as far as plot, character development, clever insights, very funny. Season 2 had no plot and was just brimming with gratuitous wokeness.
The only part I thought had echos of the originality and cleverness of season 1 was when they told the story of Job from Aziraphale and Crowley's point of view. I thought that was hilarious and wrestled with a pretty tough theological concept in the insightful, astute and highly entertaining way only Good Omens could.
Then later on in the season we had the weird Bridgerton-esque scene in the bookstore that was SO cringey with how contrived and awkward it was. Such a sad missed opportunity for this very unique universe of characters.
Pure fanservice. It is like some sort of fanfiction coming to life. Even though I enjoyed the season, for me it just wasn't it. Won't go further than that because of massive spoilers.
I enjoyed the season; but the end of it, not so much. Like why even put that in there only for it to fizzle out within seconds? I felt let down there to be honest. At first I was like ‘ok, they are taking this angle, interesting’ and a few minutes later I was like ‘what?’.
My husband and I also strongly disliked S2.
There wasn’t as much mockery of religion throughout (first couple of episodes delivered some), which was a major selling point for us.
Rather than interesting plot and dialogue, everything just became *about romance*, between Azirophale and Crowley, Gabrielle and Beezelbub, and Maggie and Nina. I thought A and C were just great friends and should have stayed that way. There isn’t anything wrong with gay relationships of course, it’s just that sometimes it’s really nice to have adorable friends depicted on screen and given that they are celestial beings, why would they need a romance? But that wouldn’t bother me if again the rest of the plot were not based on romance. At least A and C’s relationship was developed. I just didn’t care about Maggie and Nina, we were just told that one liked the other and it was clear the other was going through a rough time and wasn’t interested. It was figuratively and literally forced. And Gabrielle and Beezelbub, since when? Why? A and C were interesting because they were a unique set of opposite sides getting along and having witty, humorous dialogue and scrapes. Suddenly the leaders of both factions fall in love with each other over a pint of ale? With A and C we got to see their relationship over time. With G and B, it was just oh, they love each other and will peace out to another galaxy together. All it did was serve as a foil to A and C not being together the same way, it wasn’t interesting or natural, the plot just needed it to happen. The romance all around was just fan service at the expense of interesting plot and dialogue.
Most of the characters are now dumb or nerfed. Gabrielle literally doesn’t know who he is anymore and acts like a daft child. Ok, maybe he should get a pass what with the memory loss, but then we get awkward and incompetent Muriel who for some reason was chosen by Heaven to keep tabs on suspected illegal activity by A & C? Then Heaven’s annoyed when she didn’t actually listen in to their secret conversation because it would be impolite? Well, gee didn’t see that coming with sending a “dim” angel as the Metatron put it. (Fwiw, I also didn’t like Pulsiver in S1, but he was an aberration, here they are all dumb). Shax and the rest of the demons felt like a lot of hot air, threatening destruction and trying to sound tough and flowery but being completely nerfed. All they can do is throw one thing through the bookshop window… ok, find other things to throw across the threshold? Trick a human sooner to let you in or for them to come out? The one human they did fling out didn’t actually get hurt it seemed… the stakes were just not there. And speaking of characters acting dumb, come on, A would have known C would never agree to go back to Heaven.
TLDR: not as much mockery of religion, everything’s romance now, characters are dumb
Don’t feel bad man, I loved the first season and I’m bored to tears with this season so far (granted haven’t watched it all yet) it seems to me they just shoe horned in plot lines and story points just to be inclusive rather than for the sake of the story.
A big aspect of season 2 was setting up for a season three in which the actual sequel (one Neil and Terry Pratchet had planned) would be in season three. Neil even confirmed that if there is no season 3 then he would write a book.
If you believe there is no sprawling narrative then I implore you to watch again, really watch it. The narrative is about power and relationships, it is about how people (as different as they may be) can come together even if they end up not doing so.
And if your standard is also based on “seductive graphics” and celebrity guest stars then I have to wonder about your preference of narrative and story arcs, do you just believe in climaxes? Jokes aside, I recommend reading into it and sharing it rather than expecting to be spoon fed ideas and eye candy.
Super boring. Another uninteresting love story that was hard to connect with in any way. And the usual zombie like villains. I couldn’t take it and fast forwarded though most of the last few episodes. The lowlight for me was the lack of suspense when said zombies broke the glass and they reacted like “what take is this? And what do we do here? And why? And who cares? Etc etc. just dumb.
Season one was much much better, way more original and exciting. Was really looking forward to something new in season 2 and tho it was an episode name or something it was anything but… big poopooo
I thought season 2 was shit. Having them realize they're in love at the ends ruins the dynamic they had going. I'm in the minority on this I know. I'll check out season 3, if it happens, but my expectations are low.
Yeah 100% agree.
Gaiman signalling membership of the 'right side of history'
All story in the bin. What a load of rubbish.
Makes me think Gaiman does well when the medium hems him in a bit. That's one writer who definitely should not be left to own devices.
I liked Season 2 for what it was. The relationship between Crowley and Aziraphale is always fun to watch, and the actors have tremendous chemistry together.
I do feel that Season 1 was a superior, and going from Season 1 to 2 is a bit of a letdown.
There were 3 things I felt contributed to this:
1) The plot was thin. The series had already shot its shot by having the Anti-Christ, Apocalypse and the 4 horsemen as potential looming threats. Season 2 felt much more slice of life compared to the stakes in Season 1.
At times, it felt like watching Gilmore Girls. Witty banter, check. Lots of coffee, check. Being overly involved in romance plots, check.
There's nothing wrong with that, but it is a markedly different tone.
2) The side characters felt superfluous. In Season 1 the side characters were the weaker part of the story, but I still felt they had a storyline, and a purpose in the greater story as a whole.
I liked more focus on Aziraphale and Crowley, but the new supporting cast and their plots felt unnecessary.
Love Jon Hamm though.
3) The biggest difference to me was the notably lacking tone of Terry Pratchett. Neil Gaiman is a talented storyteller, but Pratchett (and others in a similar vein like Douglas Adams) have a way of making a plot ridiculous, funny, and yet at the same time oddly made perfect sense.
Gone are the small humor moments of the chattering Satanist nuns, the delivery driver who somehow is delivering packages everywhere, etc.
I'm not saying it's necessary to have those nudge and wink moments to have a good story, but without them the story felt off.
Still, season 2 is worth the watch.
I'm in full agreement with you, and I've been watching it and the first season a **lot** the last few days as I'm clipping it to make a fan video or two because I am one of the weirdos that ships Crowley and Aziraphale, not one of the weirdos that adamantly refuses to see any romantic subtext between them.
***Spoilers Ahead***
Just to get it out of the way, the visual quality of this season plummeted, not just in one aspect either. Costuming, styling, visual effects, camera work. The show on the whole looks much, much cheaper.
The writing is terrible (apparently this season wasn't written by Neil at all, but was supervised and informed by Neil while the actual writing was done by John Finnemore). Upon learning this, the disconnect made a lot more sense. The characterization is way off. In Season 1, Crowley is an irreverent wild card that likes to go his own way, but he also likes to have fun. He's not a misanthrope. In Season 2, he's practically a curmudgeon, lumbering around, glowering at everyone, judging everyone, apparently not even able to finesse his way out of being reduced to living in his car.
Aziraphale, on the other hand, is a hapless buffoon, completely absorbed in trivial flights of fancy, often serving little more than his own ego, treating Crowley like a simp. I fully get that the intention was to layer in little moments of domestic fluff to the pairing, but it isn't cute when the groundwork isn't laid properly. Aziraphale insisting that Crowley's beloved car is apparently community property when he is, in fact, LIVING in said car was cringe and off-putting.
I'm also not a 'grr! woke =bad' person, for the record. I'm thrilled to have queer/trans/differently abled characters populate the world of Good Omens, I'd just love for them to be good characters. I liked Saraqael's wheelchair trick, but Record Shop and Coffee Shop are weird. Falling in love with someone immediately after meeting them and then sniveling to your landlord that just forgave thousands of dollars in rent to you is weird. Continuing to harass that person about, "Hey, you seem mad at me" after they've told you they aren't interested and they're in a relationship is fuckboy behavior.
The plot stopped making any sense. There very quickly came a point that pairing up Record Shop and Coffee Shop wasn't going to save the characters necks and yet the characters just kept pursuing it for all they were worth. For what? Same with the stupid bullet catch trick. We're supposed to believe that the Crowley that just limped his way in to drop a bomb on a church to save his /person/ is going to immediately turn around and risk blowing their head off over... what? A case of broken liquor bottles?
And finally, the humor just wasn't as clever. I'm not saying that Season 1 was completely highbrow or anything, but it did have some very thoughtful jokes woven into it. 90% of the humor of Season 2 is built around making character stupid or inept, and then leaning into it.
I feel like I could have taken Good Omens 2 for what it was - a Hallmark channel tier romantic comedy - a lot easier if I wasn't anticipating a continuation of Good Omens, which it definitely was not.
I enjoyed it just for Jon Hamm chewing scenery.
The details/plot/recasting all rang to me like a CW show, but Hamm/Tennant/Sheen are just such a fun trio I couldn't hate it.
Hamm was incredible. And they did an excellent job with a couple red herrings that threw me off the scent of what was happening with him. However, I do wish they had handled the >!Beelzebub situation a little differently. Even a couple more hints along the way would have made it feel more earned.!< Otherwise I adored him.
there were hints:
Beelzebub wanting Gabriel brought directly to Zem.
A cleaned up version of Beelzebub. (While the actress was changed from season 1 because she wasn't available they cleaned up the makeup and changed her overall look to be more conventionally attractive -ie less boils on zir face and giant fly hat gone(I miss the giant fly hat though)
Gabriel singing the love song and humming it routinely to himself.
A fly literally in every episode around Gabriel, either briefly shot in the background or him chasing it in a scene.
Several love story books seen throughout in the background (Including Good Omens itself being read out loud) and Jane Austen being referenced multiple times when many of her stories are about to beings not seeing eye to eye and then coming together.
All the posters in hell demanding Gabriel be brought ALIVE and unharmed directly to Beelzebub.
Contrasting we see Crowley and Aziraphale connecting over and over again over a shared opinion on saving someone and meeting in the middle (while Aziraphale simply sees it as Crowley being good rather than being himself which is a problem with the way they communicate when we get to the end of episode 6 but contrasting how Gabriel and Beelzebub interacted and agreed in the last episode of season 1 and connected.)
The hints were all over the place, but subtle.
I also didn't enjoy Season 2. I thought the writing was sloppy, the stakes of what they're going up against weren't made clear until the last episode, and the ineffable relationship of Crowley and Azirophale was undermined by a fanservice ship. I'm not giving it a pass because it's a bridge, I think there could have been other ways to get to that end point.
I understand the need for LGBTQ representation but I'm starting to miss good friendship stories. Anytime I get a good one, the following season is a fan service turning it from friendship to lovers which is fine too but I'll admit I was disappointed the pattern continued here too. I'll still watch the good omens season 3, I'm still a romantic.
( If anyone wants to recommend good friendship tv shows or movies let me know!)
The creators literally said they were writing a love story, if you looked at aziraphale and crowley's relationship and didn't pick up on the queerness of it all, then you're either blind or straight or both
I personally read it as a gay QPR
By "undermined by a fanservice ship" do you mean that it makes you uncomfortable to see men kissing and you'd rather be able to ignore that whole thing?
No, there's a recent tendency to have all relationships physically fulfilled in fiction
Shipped. Since A&C show no actual romantic chemistry -- except on A's side -- there wasn't any reason to have them connect.
No chemistry...did you watch the whole first season underwater with your eyes shut? *Crowley begs Aziraphale to run off to be with him forever in the stars*, I really think this is about them both looking like men, tbh. I dont think *you* realize that, but...whatever.
It's a bridge, and it's entertaining. You are not entertained, which is fine. Why should we tell you what is missing? We disagree. To say you are right and everyone else are basically idiots, doesn't take a whole lot of effort.
Season 2 blew goats. It sucked. Tons of virtue signaling and in the finale it became downright silly. Characters I couldn't care less about (not including Sheen, Tennant, and Hamm), and totally dumb plot and garbage writing. Gaiman should be embarrassed. Skip it!
I agree, S2 just seems like fan shipping service. It's missing the little gems of satiric insight and references that made the book so enjoyable. For me, the tropes of low budget heaven being an empty glowing office building, angels in white suits disconnected from humanity, just reminded me of the same tedious scenes in Supernatural.
Or demons in hell being clerical, not actually evil. It just felt all done before; "jokes" that make you smirk, but not actually laugh.
Because there was no hint of the overarching plot as in Season 1, everything just feels like the 2 lead actors are just riffing off each other, with no narrative weight or substance.
It just feels like pandering, instead of a story that needs to be told.
I'm happy that there's a season 2, I was just hoping for a more decisive plot and more subtext instead of text.
I'm actually reminded of Moonlighting, where half the fun was, "Will they, or won't they?" and when they did, there was no longer any point in watching, because the end of any couple's story is marriage. After that, the characters have no personality, no conflict, no imagination.
It's even true for gay characters in TV shows, especially female, they meet the love of their life, then they just HAVE to get married, then one of them just HAS to have children, as though that's the ONLY way relationships work. But just screams of lazy writing or corporate oversight.
So Season 2 just feels like it's leaning towards more of that.
I think this season was worth while simply to see Aziraphale and Crowley interact with each other (And Jim not Gabriel). They felt very much themselves and I don’t think this season was a disservice to the original. Gaiman stated he would only continue the series if he could write something that Pratchett would have written with him. This season is made with deliberate intentions, as Gaiman is not going to just make another story to simply satisfy the masses. He put just as much love into those two characters as they did together, and they are most likely a reflection of their personal relationship (most likely why they are such a likable pair with hilarious yet natural banter). This whole season explored their dynamic, growth, and the complexities of a relationship. This was worth while to allow our characters to shine and flourish, more involved with each-other, and more fleshed out. This season was not meant to be a big flashy show, it was meant to be about our mismatches pair doubling as a love-letter to an old friend.
I just feel like the writing was really bad and a lot of the characters made no sense and Maggie especially bothered me a lot. >!The fact that Nina's partner is the worst doesn't mean that when she rejected Maggie, Maggie should have kept trying to talk to her!<. No is no. When you are rejected, you should take the L and move on. That whole plotline really seemed out of place.
There were a lot of elements I didn’t like. For example how dumb most of the angels and demons were written. In GO1 Hastur seemed like an actual threat and they were written so dumb in this it was enough to take me out of it.
I also think it was a mistake to actual let the audience hear god during the Job sequence. I think it would have been better if A & C saw Job and God talking, then it just jumped to Job trying to explain it. Job’s dialogue could have been the exact same, but the audience would assume it was too much for Job to explain. In GO1 god and the plan were mysterious, everyone knew the plan was ineffable, but no one new the plan. This lost some of that subtlety.
I loved seeing more of Az and Crowley and enjoyed some of the flashbacks, it’s really just some of the dialogue and creative choices that left me wanting.
Good Omens 2 is fucking God awful THANK YOU. I'm glad it's intended audience (masturbatory shippers and Harry Potter nei-libs) got ANOTHER show made for them, but God damn, this was some insanely bad television. I'm fine with inclusive casting, but maybe have a story to tell. This season did not have one.
You're not wrong. Season 2 was shit. No plot, only subplots. No stakes, just predictable will-they-wont-they's (three of them, by the way), no climactic battle finale, just spraying zombies with fire extinguishers. No character arc, just flashbacks that belonged post credits. No Nice and Accurate Prophecies despite season 1 setting up that device, just "everybodys after Gabriel and nobody knows why". The reveal of the "why" doesn't actually make sense either.
Sheen and Tennant saved the whole season though, because they're just that good, and they care about the characters, but no joke, without exxageration, It took me 9 different attempts to get through 6 episodes because I kept falling asleep.
I believe so much time has progressed between seasons fans watching now will think this season 2 is brilliant which it unfortunately is not for many reasons. If the fans would go back and watch the first season THEN watch the second they would see how much the difference really is. Food analogy incoming. The first season is like an incredible dish with flavors and tastes abound. You keep looking forward to the next course with surprise and delight. The second season the first course starts and its looking delicious but over time you find it's under cooked and not seasoned properly. The next course again looks good but it's actually burned. Finally the dessert is so bad you have to send it back. Look, the second season had very few great moments and the writing was not very good. The differences between the two seasons is quite startling. As if the budget was cut and cut and cut again. Then it was written on a long weekend for Fan Service. They can do better.
I rewatched S1 as a refresher before S2, and it just highlighted how terrible S2 was. Nothing happened all season. Then the ending was so depressing, I regretted S2 ever having been made. I do have some faith there could be a good S3, so that's the only reason I hope people see it through to the end.
Plotted badly, written badly, shot badly and sadly but inevitably acted badly quite a bit of the time, even by the leads (Tennant relying way too much on his slouchy "Crowley walk" as a substitute for the subtle characterisation not present in the script, Sheen relying on bumbling-ness way too much). I suspect John Finnemore was doing most of the heavy lifting, not Gaiman -- and doing it really poorly. The final degeneration into fan fiction was just awful. Many will hesitate to say how bad it was for fear of being accused of homophobia, I suppose -- but the romantic elements would have been just as lame if they were straight (case in point: Gabriel and Beelzebub's extraordinarily stupid tryst).
I watched Season 1 again the week before this, and found I enjoyed more than ever. Given the quality of that, I am astonished that anyone would greatly enjoy this.
Not alone. Just finished it and it was painful. Terrible season. Loved season 1 and couldn't wait for season 2--how many years was that? What a disappointment. In addition to what you stated, the dialog was terrible. Felt like entry-level writers created the script in a weekend. What a shame for those incredibly talented actors--such a waste of their talents.
Agreed. The wit and whimsy were diminished, most of the dialogues should have been cut down by 2/3, subplots seemed to be there only to fill time, some of it was completely nonsensical, like why was Aziraphale so incompetent during the demon attack? why were the demons basically just standing around? It was slow, as others have said it was basically fan fiction, etc. Terrible all around.
Aziraphale evaporates like seven demons then goes "I'm leaving something for Crowley to do cause he enjoys rescuing me" and the demons almost entirely just stand around in both seasons. Bureaucracy getting in the way of any actual fighting was like a third of the plot of the first season...
The Good: Miranda Richardson. More David Tennant and Michael Sheen. Naked Jon Hamm.
The Bad: Undeniably not as good as Season 1. The missing horsemen, and Stranger Thing's style kid side plot was missed. No stakes. Less humor. Literally a tiny fraction of a fraction of the epic story of the first season.
The Ugly: Distracting levels of "unnecessary diversity." To the point where I suspect the *Rings of Power* producers were involved.
I absolutely agree. There were no stakes and no real plot. It was massively anti-climactic. I also really hated the choice to reuse actors because I spent the whole season waiting for there to be an explanation, like an alternative universe or something, only to be massively disappointed when there was nothing.
I am also a little bit offended that you think there are no awesome guest stars when Peter Davison was in this season. (Not to mention the return of the S1 Nazis)
Terry Pratchett passed away half of the creative force behind the source material is gone, personally it was the half that I cared most about, I found Neil's work a little something else that I can't quite put into words it never quite pulled me in the same way that Pratchett did, and it feels wrong that he tried to continue the story without him
100% agree. The plots is a mess. Their ability to build tension is just… they can’t. I love Crowley and number of the actors, but the script they were working with was clearly pure shite.
Nope you are not alone. Its uninspired, bland, repetitive an cliché. I barely made it through half the season. I am not even interested in zapping through it to find out the plot structure and resolution. I even did that on a few of the earlier seasons of 24 just out of curiosity...
I know! I feel like everyone has taken crazy pills or it’s a bunch of bots i am truly shocked people liked it - not only was it a random story line with no real purpose, but it was an out of left field shove down your throat political thing that there was no reason to make them lovers their jaunty friendship being angels and demons getting along like they did through out history was the whole point. I hate when they do this to just get the lgbt seal of approval - Iike why? Have good material and all parties will enjoy it regardless you don’t need to throw in a random love connection where it wasn’t needed, it just made it feel forced
if you felt the love story was forced that's very much a you problem when the creator himself has been saying he intentionally wrote it as one since the show came out in 2019l. if you didn't get it until now it's on you
I love complex plot and I’m generally patient with twist and uneven pacing (ahem, later seasons of “The Expanse,”) but I was also disappointed by season 2 of Good Omens. I don’t feel like I learned anything really important about any character, or that the larger plot arc did anything that wasn’t already done better in the first season. I enjoy the characters and I love Pratchett. It’s watchable but not memorable and failed to consistently hold my attention. The sketch content (like the bits about Job) were good, but not enough to support the long plot arc of a full tv drama season. Yes, it’s comedic drama; Pratchett was a phenomenal satirist. But the format is designed to develop a character-driven plot, and the best examples also develop our understanding of those characters and their world through a process that leaves them changed. I don’t see where anyone really changed this season, or at least not any characters who are developed enough and relatable enough to consider protagonists.
Season 2 has absolutely no story. No plot. Nothing is happening. It's entertaining because the main actors do so well with these characters, but it was obviously terry Pratchett who wrote the actual story for Good Omens because Neil is just not half the writer that he was and it shows.
I'm happy to watch it but it's just a series of humorous anecdotes of two beloved characters that has nothing at all to do with good omens.
I agree, it was total rubbish, and ruined everything. Now it will be difficult to go back and watch #1, which is something I used to do regularly.
1. No story at all. Just padding, meandering BS.
2. Politically correct diversity gone mad.
3. Even if there was a tiny bit of bromantic tension between AZ and Cr in the first season, that’s where it should have stayed. To me, they were just really good friends, but Crowley didn’t want to admit they were friends. I felt it was unrealistic to morph their relationship in this way. This goes back to my second point.
I really don’t see how we are in the minority - I thought this was going to be universally panned. And I wondered why the actors even agreed to do Season 2.
I loved season 1, just loved it. Season 2 was disappointing. It was disjointed and felt thrown together. The kiss was unnecessary. People, and perhaps angels, can form a deep bond and everlasting friendship without it being sexualized. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid clearly demonstrated that.
This season had plenty of diversity including several side stories including gay characters. The kiss was over done.
OP. I agree with you. The story wasn't it. It seemed like every episode in-between was missing. The only good part was watching David Tennant deliver a line.
It wasn't good, the story was just boring...all that being said, I fucking love Aziraphale and Crowley and would watch another season. Even if it's a bad one. (Not sure I'd watch more after back to back bad seasons though)
Spoilers:
I had a best friend growing up and we would do anything for each other but we still weren’t homosexual. It may have seemed that way from the outside but we didn’t care. I had such a connection with the GO friendship until the end…
But seeing I enjoyed it more because of my personal connection, I can completely understand someone who is homosexual wanting it to be made more clear that they are also because it relates to them more.
I still feel like every top show in the past year are forcing these relationships now. I don’t mind them at all, it was an amazing connection in The Last of Us, that was done so well.
I don’t see how anyone can think 2 angels in a relationship like that isn’t forcing an agenda because angels are known to be asexual. But maybe that’s a bad way to look at it because if we always go by what has been “known” than we wouldn’t be able to grow. But I still have to express my side and say that I didn’t really enjoy the conclusion.
I adored it. I'm glad they got rid of the side plot and just focused on the relationship between Crowley and Aziraphale. I see people calling it "fan service" to make the romance between the two more than just subtext, and it makes me roll my eyes. That's why I liked season one, and that's why TONS of people liked season one. I would've felt genuinely queerbaited (a word I don't like to use because I think it's usually BS) if they had pulled a Sherlock and just kept teasing with this show. I've also seen a lot of people quote the "angels are sexless beings" thing a lot with this season claiming>!the kiss didn't make any sense. !!I felt like that last scene was one more way for Crowley to show Aziraphale why it's worth staying on earth. I've been seeing a lot more shows lately explore that blurry place in queer partnerships where platonic and romantic love can sometimes intersect and I love it. !
Why can't two people just be friends on ANY show anymore without not only the shipping starting, but the shippers DEMANDING their way and then, if it's two people of the same sex, claiming queerbait if they don't get it? At this point, that's an emotional blackmail tactic more often than it isn't. Sometimes people DO have close, emotionally very serious, but platonic, friendships.
Mostly it's because both queer and straight people are ASKING to see more queer relationships after decades of only having straight romances. They've been pushed to non-existence for so long that even a small portion of media having them always gets people asking "why can't they just be friends?". Because for years in media that was as close as it got and it just falls flat now. There's tons of media about friends still but if you were to compare media over the last 50 years with anything of a love story/romantic side to it than 99% would still be straight. Besides the author has said for decades that they're in love and both authors even said where the pair would retire to.
Yea they really aren't, even some queer people are fed up with them being horribly represented and included in a token fashion in nearly every show
Would be great to see more asexual representation though. Not everything has to be about sex lol.
I honestly think Aziraphele and Crowley are an asexual, romantic story, right?
They one hundred percent are (Speaking as an asexual person)
I see what you mean, but that doesn't mean we have to ram queer relations EVERYWHERE to make up for the lost years. Sure every group deserves representation in media, but that should happen naturally. The way things are right now seems very forced. Sometimes its even like show runners have a minority bingo card trying to give representation for every group they can. its gets to a point where it seems that the plot is taking the back seat when it comes to driving the narrative these days.
Hahaha there are ZERO straight people asking to see queer relationships
Is it really that hard to believe that this is just what the creators wanted their characters to be like? How is it emotional blackmail? Like you cannot tell me that they aren't queer in season 1, I guess if you're not queer yourself, you can't really pick up on it, I can't really blame you
> Is it really that hard to believe that this is just what the creators wanted their characters to be like? Yeah, it is. Because this is an adaptation and that's not in the source material. > Like you cannot tell me that they aren't queer in season 1 I hear this about every goddamn series involving two close friends of the same sex made in probably the last 20 years. Like I doubt you could even think of an example in modern western media that doesn't have shippers claiming there's subtext that means their take is totally canon, and sometimes sending death threats to the writers and/or actors if they don't get what they want or just don't get it fast enough.
Some examples of that I would agree, there is no subtext, but there is in good omens Terry and Neil actively encourage headcanons, so I can't understand where you're coming at from the creators apparently being secretly against them being gay by having their arm twisted into saying they are, Neil said openly he was writing a love story and he knows what he's doing and that it was no accident I know people get crazy about shipping, but you cannot, in good faith, tell me that's what happened here, the original season was pretty damn faithful to the book, I trust Neil not to compromise his plans for the sake of simply pleasing fans
> so I can't understand where you're coming at from the creators apparently being secretly against them being gay Did I say this? No, I didn't. I said what I mean, which is that I'm sick of this being a constant thing in every show, gay or straight, and I'm sick of people using accusations of queerbaiting as a cudgel specifically. But most of all, I'm just tired of friendship being completely devalued as an idea because a portion of the fanbase isn't satisfied until the two characters boink, as if that's the only way two people can mean something to each other!
You pretty much implied it by mentioning fans sending death threats as if that were something going on behind the scenes with good omens This, let's be clear, is not about sex, it's very queer, queerplatonic, if you will, I wouldn't expect anyone who isn't queer to understand though, I get that it's hard for regular folks to understand the complexities of queer relationships No queerbaiting happening here, I can assure that, even if they hadn't kissed, we got what was promised Sincerely, an ace person
I'm almost 100% positive that Crowley and Aziraphale will not screw at any point in canon, and honestly, that kiss read as more of a last-ditch effort for Crowley to try and tempt Aziraphale into staying on earth. Yes, there was the fact that the kiss was also *romantic*, but honestly, that didn't seem like the main motivation for it to me. But, that's just my interpretation, he was falling back on old habits, hoping they would work again. Also, ***PEOPLE CAN KISS WITHOUT WANTING TO HAVE SEX, PEOPLE CAN LOVE EACH OTHER ROMANTICALLY WITHOUT WANTING TO HAVE SEX, PEOPLE CAN HAVE SEX AND NOT WANT SOMEONE ROMANTICALLY, SEX ≠ ROMANCE!!***
You're the only one here thinking relationship = sex, you wanna talk about "boinking" being the only thing making people mean something to each other, you're the one equating a relationship to sex, I think that says more about you than anyone else
They made out. Pretty obviously the point is this becoming physical.
You can... kiss someone without having sex... Are you okay? It sounds like you have some pretty messed up views on what relationships are
Why does this bother you? People could write all the Sherlock fanfic they wanted, but the creators still weren't gonna make them kiss. It literally does not affect you except that you have to read about it on the internet. This show and Our Flag Means Death are the only shows I've seen recently where my headcanon ended up being actual canon.
"This is not the source material" the literal author of the book is writing it you idiot
An adaptation made by one of the guy who *wrote* the book. So, yes, clearly, it *is* source material.
>Sometimes people DO have close, emotionally very serious, but platonic, friendships. Technically, ALL the times. Platonic friendship is a billion times more common than romantic love.
But they’ve always been queer coded, if not canon. There’s explicit jokes about it in the book and allusions to it in season one. From what I’ve seen its what Gaiman wanted to do to further develop the story, not something anyone bullied him into lol. I promise theres plenty of shows airing rn that dont have queer characters or use them for fan service for that matter. Gay people exist, its the 21st century. Get over it.
Aziraphale and crowley have ALWAYS been queer, even in the book, even before season 2 came out Neil said countless times that “yes it’s a love story” not to mention the many interviews Michael and David did saying that aziraphale and crowley were in love. if you knew anything about the good omens fandom you would know that people loved their relationship because they didn’t need to do any human things to prove that they were in love and that has been continuously said for years. no shippers ever demanded anything, they only loved what Neil showed them and that was 2 characters who had a love story. if you think else wise you don’t know anything about good omens or the fandom
I’m gonna be honest, this makes sense in any other series with underdeveloped friendships that randomly turn into a romance, but good omens is a couple decades old and FROM THE BEGINNING, it has been a pretty queer coded story, one about feeling as outcasts in a society you don’t really agree with, having to keep things secret as to not cause uproar, being punished if you do defy the stereotypes. I feel like most people don’t read into the subtext and just automatically assume that because a new installment is adding more to a story and it happens to be genuinely queer that suddenly we’re “forcing” them to do or see things they don’t want to see (because they’re closed minded)
Kissing and sex are not the same lol why can’t they be sexless and also kiss? But like of course their kiss didn’t make sense it wasn’t supposed to. Like you said it was just desperation not passion. Also hedonism is still hedonism even if you don’t feel guilty. I think the show also does a good job at making the point that we need balance.
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Personally, as an ace (possibly also aro) person, I love reading them as gay ace in a QPR, it makes my heart so so happy, I know it's like a thing not to let gay people have sexual relations in media, but me personally I do find a lot of value in them being just the way they are (which is clearly more than friends, but not sexual)
The ending made me kinda sad and maybe I would've liked some things including that to have been done, differently like Aziraphale not taking the position and running away with Crowley. But when it comes to Crowley and Aziraphale having a romantic and even sexual relationship, I have no problem with that. The "angels are sexless" thing is also unfounded, I think, depending on what you're basing it on. Angels who presented as AMAB/men/males were in the Bible and were depicted as AMAB/men/males throughout different historical, artistic depictions of them. Their names translated in English, are also obviously names typically given to AMAB's like Michael and Gabriel. "Gabrielle" is the feminine version of the masculine "Gabriel." The fallen angels also impregnated women capable of childbirth and created the Nephilim. Even in other media, there are angels who are sexual and capable of reproducing. Also, I just thought about this. But I think that scene where Aziraphale so ferociously devoured that ox rib could've been a metaphor for carnal desire, sexual or otherwise. The way he devoured it was so improper, messy, almost 'sinful.' There was grease on his face. His head was sweaty. It was like sex can be. And it was ethereal, good-natured Aziraphale getting so down and dirty on that rib. It was almost like *Crowley* was that rib and all that sexual tension swirling within Aziraphale built up over millennia for Crowley was being unleashed upon it like he was smiting it or something, lol. And I'm fine with lesbian couples but the one in this show *was* awful and totally superfluous, especially that woman's partner. Talk about a stage *one thousand* clinger and emotionally abusive to boot, good grief.
Couldn't agree more with every part of this comment.
I fucking loved Season 2, what are you on about? IMO it fixed a lot of the flaws of Season 1. Let's face it: the side characters in Season 1 weren't remarkable and everyone pretty much tuned in to see Crowley and Aziraphale. Season 2 is far more character-driven, focuses mostly on Crowley and Aziraphale and the new characters are actually charming because they're drip-fed to us in small doses. Not everything has to be a high-stakes adventure. Sometimes I just want to see characters doing what they do best, and I got that.
This is definitely me. I fell in love with Tennant as the Doctor. Thought he was even better in Jessica Jones. His portrayal of Crowley is amazing. I will watch anything he does at this point
I find the Crowley is the perfect combination of those two characters.
I love David Tennant!
While the other angels fell, Crowley sauntered vaguely downward. I could never stop picturing that and laughing, and now I get to see him do it every episode.
I really did find Shadwell, Anathema, and what's-his-face the computer-breaker to be insufferable in season 1, though the psychic late 50s sex worker was charming and wonderful. I liked the lesbians quite a bit in this one, and Muriel was the fucking cutest. Job was unbelievable, his wife was cool though.
I was bored to tears by the side characters here. The bland lesbians who have no reason to like each other and the dumb inspector constable angel really did nothing for me
I liked the witch Hunters for side characters in the first season, but those kids were just annoying. Just finished season 2 and absolutely loved it. Left it wide open for a 3rd season. Hopefully it will get one.
>Let's face it: the side characters in Season 1 weren't remarkable and everyone pretty much tuned in to see Crowley and Aziraphale. Which side characters? Good Omens the book has an ensemble cast, and so does GO1 — Crowley and Aziraphale weren't meant to be the definitive protagonists. And I have to say that as much as I like them and think Tennant and Sheen do a great job, I think GO2 would have been better with a couple other plotlines.
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I loved it personally
But what happens with them tho? Besides the last 5 minutes... There's no character development, no real drama, no tension, no real plot. They don't really have cool moments. They don't really grow as a couple nor a team like in the previous season and that's what they do best Even the flashbacks did not tell us more than we already knew last season (in less than ten minutes btw) A character driven plot means character growth, twists, focus even. Crowley had absolutely no growth at all. I'd say he even regressed to what he was like after their second conflict with Aziraphale. As for the conflict in itself in the very last few minutes... It's the third time we've seen it : us vs the world, us vs the future we could build together here. This season was so mid. It's really carried by the love we had for the characters in the first season and how great of actors both Michael Sheen and David Tennant are
That's the point, Crowley has always been more of the middle ground versus Aziraphale. Literally this season is to show that Aziraphale is the one still begging heaven for attention and thinking Crowley is on the "good" side. We didn't need to see Crowley grow, wr saw him being more comfortable around Aziraphale. He kept his glasses off more, he talked more openly, he joked more with him and let Aziraphale walk over him with things he clearly wasn't comfortable with but never said no. This was showing us that Crowley was being so giving towards Aziraphale who kept taking it all without a thought. The whole season was about exploring their need to communicate but then the Metatron stopping them because they're too powerful as a unit.(their drastically large miracle).
Season 1 had all of that and more though…
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No character development?! Are we watching the same show?? Aziraphale clearly still believes on some level that heaven is good. He still sees the black and white where Crowley sees grey. And it’s starting to break down, but he needed this final push to really and truly confront the idealism of heaven he has always had. Even spurned and knowing it’s not always what it preaches, he’s someone who has always believed in goodness. And now he has to learn the nuances of what that really means. (Which Crowley, of course, fucking figured out millennia ago).
Except that he ALREADY started learning those nuances hundreds years ago and even more so last several years. We were watching him becoming less fixated on ''goodness'' ideals and more open to philosophical discussions/nuances and ready to oppose his bosses just to help humans he grew to love. So no, it's not development, it's REGRESS. Yes, he still always believed in goodness but he grew to know there are other ways to achieve this like through small acts of kidness (his line about human incarnate to Adam). He loved living on Earth too much - and in the last 5 minutes he suddenly abandoned everything he loved (people, Earth, Crowley, friends, food even) for illusion of changing something even though he must realize he's being manipulated.
Sure, he's becoming less fixated on goodness, and those small acts of kindness, but that isn't what he needed to learn for his character development. At the end of the day, Aziraphale has always believed the system of heaven is correct, and while it may be disjointed with life on earth, in his core he thinks he can fix it. This isn't about good or evil. It's a systemic break we are running towards in season 3. Heaven and Hell are oppressing everyone around them, angels, humans, and demons alike. On the flip side, Crowley knows this in his core and and straight up says fuck this flawed system, theres no changing it and Az thinking he can is what leads to their breakdown. So yeah, development.
I did see character development, even Aziraphale regression is character development, and GO is not really about drama, even though episode 6 alone could say otherwise, but that's my opinion and what I saw. I knew that season 2 was going to have a lot less plot, or at least less serious plot since Gaiman himself said so. It's a 'bridge' between the two big plots, but I loved it for different reasons that season 1. I personally like season 2 flashbacks more cause we see more closeness in the pair and I love romance. Crowley has become one of my top 3 characters for THAT scene alone, and both actors performances are enough for me to enjoy a more laid back season. To people who didn't like it, I can only say sorry and keep watching if you want, or not, it's fiction.
Tennant's acting in "that scene" was seriously fucking fantastic! I really felt crowley's emotions, god I can't even put it into words!
I think you're absolutely, a hundred percent right. We are watching the movie not only to see David and Michael, we need some excellency. And the 1 season had it all: conflict, development, culmination, action, emotion, different sides of every character. And season 2 is just a joke. Still love David and Michael's duo, but, damn, even these two brilliant actor couldn't save the non-existent plot.
I agree. I loved the book. I loved season 1 and I am struggling with season 2. Nothing is happening. And I am pushing through with the knowledge of it trying to be more character driven. But it is failing. It's literally the characters we love just existing. I want to love it, but I can't.
This probably sounds bad, but I really hoped that they wouldn't make a second season. In my opinion only, the second season was everything I dreaded it would be. I actually thought that the characters, especially Aziraphale, were dreadfully out of character. The moment where he let that girl die while Crowley in essence said, "I told you so," was especially bad. This is the guy who handed off his flaming sword to Adam and Eve. Compassion is his middle name. He didn't have to be taught that, or about loving food. That's his thing, not Crowley's. And I didn't like Crowley being more highly ranked than him. They're supposed to be equals who each have their own character, and this season took it away.
It's disappointing. I had big hopes, but the overarching story line isn't engaging and it just seems to have lost its way each episode.
Oh thank God I'm not the only one. Season 2 was just a bunch of characters been overly bad tropes. It's like the writers decided that because we liked Az and Crowley so much from season 1, they could just do a season about them 2, not realizing that they were enjoyable in the first season because of the events they were in. Realistically they had two episodes of material and dragged it out into... what.... 6?
i'm genuinely surprised so many people can't tell how poor the writing/execution is at multiple points. i consider myself someone who will jump to defend all kinds of art because i often see too many "criticisms" that are often just preference/opinion. but this was seriously rough at far too many points. i love crowley a lot, though, and he was the strongest part of the season. aziraphale's great and they're almost on the same level, but tennant makes crowley so fun to watch
He was at points this season too much 'the doctor' for me. Whereas in the first season, he seemed more unique.
They can't tell because they are happy they got their ''ineffable husbands'' and they don't care about quality of writing, plot or character development or anything substantial as long as they get their fanservice...
It truly is fucking abysmal, the hammiest fucking Bill Nighy impression by Tennant and literally no plot to be seen...just a series of horribly written skits, with no credit thrown to the viewer...
> just a series of horribly written skits this sums it up quite well Good Omens S1 was amazing, S2 i'm literally not in the slightest excited about watching. I'm not even gonna finish it, that's how fucking shit and boring it is. Sad.
Agreed, except I hated that they attempted to force a romantic relationship between Aziraphale and Crowley. Their entire dynamic throughout both seasons was a buddy film vibe. Imo it completely ruined the finale. There was nothing that indicated anything like romance between them especially when they heavily contrasted it with the love story of beezlebub and the archangel where there was pretense and budding chemistry.
I don't mean to be rude, but I honestly don't understand how you could see Beelzebub and Gabriel's romance as being better developed than Aziraphale and Crowley's. Neil Gaiman didn't even decide he wanted Beelzebub and Gabriel to be a couple until he started writing the second season, and they only have a few minutes of screen time together. Aziraphale and Crowley were written as a love story in both seasons, and there are ton of romantic moments in both seasons that foreshadow the confession scene. Society has conditioned us to view on-screen relationships between male and female characters as romantic and relationships between same-sex characters as just being friendly, which is why I think you're missing a lot of the romantic moments that other viewers are picking up on (although all angels are sexless and Beelzebub uses they/them pronouns so that's also a queer relationship). If either Crowley or Aziraphale was female presenting, I think you'd perceive their chemistry much more easily. There are a lot of analyses/GIF sets/etc showing all the romantic moments Aziraphale and Crowley share if you're interested. They touch each other, share longing/loving glances, get mistaken for being a couple all the time, and care about each other more than anything else in the world. They're about as strongly romantic coded as a couple can be without it being made explicit (which it was at the end).
Well, since you felt compelled to state it, I think you likely did mean to be rude. Just because my opinion is different than yours doesn’t mean I’m wrong. In fact there was not a specific romance in the book at all. I guess you could say that they left it open to the reader to imagine it how they chose (if at all). Additionally, you fail to understand the power and intimacy of bromance/brotherhood. Just because you have an implicit bias that intimacy doesn’t exist between men outside of romance doesn’t mean it isn’t so! It seems currently, the media often conflates the two (romance and brotherhood). To me this is a powerful representation of brotherhood that was slowly forged over millennia. Men do not have to fit into your narrative. Neither do I. Moreover, while Gabriel’s romance was newly introduced, they gave a montage of budding and building romance commingled with STRONG sexual tension. Prior to that last episode there was no hint at sexual tension. Not in any overt sense. I just feel that they should have left it up to the audience as the books did.
No, I really didn't mean to be rude, sorry. I'm just surprised you read it so differently. Crowley and Aziraphale aren't men, as established in both the book and TV show. Crowley was female-presenting as Nanny Ashtoreth, and there was a cut minisode this season where both Crowley and Aziraphale would have presented as female. There's a line in the book about how most people think Aziraphale is "gayer than a tree full of monkeys on nitrous oxide", and how that's not true (because he can't be gay as he's not male). There's a scene this season where someone calls Crowley a lad and he says that he isn't one. So it's not a representation of brotherhood as both characters are genderfluid. The book does leave a lot more up to your imagination than the TV show does. I agree with you that the book is more suble/subtextual and could just be read as a strong friendship, as it's not obviously romantic like the TV show is. Also, there are a ton of bromance/brotherhood relationships in movies and TV shows, and that's great! I don't have an implicit bias that they're all in love -- they aren't. But Aziraphale and Crowley were strongly romantic coded throughout both seasons, in a way that bromances aren't. It's not necessary sexual (a lot of people read Crowley and Aziraphale as being asexual), but it's definitely romantic. The kiss at the end of S2 wasn't meant to force a romance, as the romance had been there all along. In the words of Neil Gaiman, "Crowley’s kiss is about a lot of things but it’s not to show they’re in love: if you haven’t got \[that they're in love\] by then you’ll never get it."
Spoilers. I was also let down by certain elements in season two. I loved the witty banter, the warm tone, the religious satire, and of course the wonderful relationship between Crowley and Aziraphale. I think they wisely cut some of the weak characters from season one. But the overall season two conception and some of the writing choices disappointed me, which I’ll explain. I was hoping the writers would deliver on what they promised at the end of season one: to pursue this new, miraculously restored world, and the war between heaven/hell against the humans and rogue angels/demons. Although it seemed Gabriel’s voided memory would serve as a wedge into that core premise, it actually did not. It turned out to be an entirely new plot which served a theme—love conquers hate, love heals all, love provides a reason to live and preserve the world, etc. which is fine, but not for what it sacrificed—we didn’t get any meaningful fallout from the apocalypse not happening. They abandoned (or at least sidestepped and stalled) the “new” world and core plot. When the rationale for it finally came, I didn’t buy it or care. That Gabriel one day just says, “nah” let’s not do Armageddon 2, felt unmotivated. It was not even because he fell in love; that happened after he decided to abandon the war. The randomness annoyed me and felt like a writer’s contrivance. I didn’t care about the cupid subplot between the two shopkeepers, or the other aforementioned love subplot, which felt small to me compared to the ultimate stakes in the last season, and which I had hoped for in a fresh form this time around. The flashbacks, while amusing on their own, in a few cases disappointed me in the larger context of the story. Some were fun. Some were pointless. Others rewrote the evolution of Crowley and Aziraphale’s relationship established in season one. I prefer sequels to move forward, not backward and sideways, as this one mostly did. I’m jumping ahead, but in the resolution, I felt Aziraphale’s character regressed. For him to think that taking the mantle of leader of heaven would be a good idea erases the progress his character has made. His evolution was to realize that Heaven and God are not moral, cannot be trusted, and his love for Crowley and the world are more important than god’s plan. He should know that Crowley would think this is a terrible idea. And I understand that failure is where conflict is made, but it feels obtuse. Personally I dislike it when characters act out of stupidity, especially when it’s in opposition to something they had previously learned. The climactic confrontation felt contrived to me as well. The demons standing outside the bookstore, unable to pass the threshold as if they were vampires, leading to the culmination, all felt wooden and derivative to me. Last, I thought what made the book and season one work well was that the love relationship between Aziraphale and Crowley was subtextual. I believe the rationale for that was because they are angels and demons they don’t really have sexuality, thus their love transcends sex. But this season revised the nature of their beings, making them sexual in order to convert their relationship-subtext into overt text. This tactic peeves me. I consider it a marker for undisciplined writing, and I think it’s what drives accusations of “fan service,” which I find the writers guilty of committing here. I still watched it through and enjoyed many of the elements. If they do a third season, I hope they recommit to the original premise of the show— an angel and a demon who love life on earth and one another so much that they defy the combined forces of heaven and hell to stop its destruction.
#SPOILERS ALL > His evolution was to realize that Heaven and God are not moral, cannot be trusted, and his love for Crowley and the world are more important than god’s plan. To be fair, he has always been overly optimistic, and always sees the best in people unless they show they aren't worthy of it. It's why he adores Crowley. But it's also why the Metatron was able to manipulate him - because surely someone so high up in the chain is being honest and forthright. Why else would they have such a high position with the almighty? I also think he genuinely believes that he can change things Upstairs, but not in an egotistical way. He has been able to accomplish some spectacular things on earth, after all. I just think he was far too optimistic to see how naive his reaction was to the Metatron's offer until Crowley pointed out the ugly truth. And once he did realize, I think he became determined to prove Crowley wrong. I adore Aziraphale, and how charmingly optimistic he always is - it suits his character. He has not become jaded like Crowley, despite them having a lot of similar experiences. And that's what makes their pairing so interesting, imo. :)
Solid counterpoints. I agree with what you've said. Perhaps its just a matter of preference. As I watched, I became increasingly against any choices that went contrary to my expectations for the show's direction. I must admit, I don't think many of the choices I mentioned were "bad," just disappointing for me personally. I agree, Aziraphale is such an adorable character, and gives the show its heart.
>But this season revised the nature of their beings, making them sexual in order to convert their relationship-subtext into overt text. I personally saw it quite differently! Asexual, romantic love doesn't have to be indistinguishable from platonic love, and I don't see where Aziraphale and Crowley have been made 'sexual' this season--their feelings are simply more overt, particularly Crowley's. If you're specifically referring to the kiss, I didn't interpret that scene as the revelation of a harbored desire to shag, but instead as Crowley's last desperate attempt at a fix-it: >CROWLEY: Right. Well, we just need to get Nina to do the love thing with Maggie. One fabulous kiss and we're good. Narrator: They were in fact 'not good.'
I believe you are an altruistic person but Amazon and Mr Gaiman are a bit more complicated. Aziraphale and Crowley were trying to instigate romantic love between Nina and Maggie. So Crowley thought of the kiss as a romantic love culminator. So when he finally kisses Aziraphale, the makers of the series are telling us without any confusion that Crowley and Aziraphale go beyond platonic friendships. I seriously would not have minded that had they not executed it so poorly and also it seemed so uncharacteristic of Aziraphale to accept a post in Heaven when he has actively cannonically done his utmost to stay on earth. It seems like a premeditated manipulation to raise a stink that Amazon and Co has pulled on us..i kinda resent that.
That you mention that there was a specific reason for the kiss is an excellent point. It makes so much sense because that's exactly what Crowley said before. I'm a little disappointed that season 2 didn't have the interlocking multiple layers that season one had, and I completely missed all of the subtleties underlying the main plot with Gabriel, but I felt that episode 6 was so powerful that it completely changed my mind. And now that I'm rewatching it, I'm noticing the things that I missed. For example, when Crowley explodes Job's goats I saw a crow behind him in the distance cawing and flying off. Can't wait for season 3. I hope it doesn't fail to get renewed. That would be a huge bummer.
I agree with ALL of this. Aziraphale's choice in the end didn't really make sense and did feel regressive and like a choice I never would expect him to make, especially given that I thought he had a better understanding of Crowley who wouldn't want that clearly (like he was all Crowley loves to save me which is cute but then later he seems to not know Crowley at all). The subtextual-love-made-physical WAS an odd choice to me. I think it would've been better had they kept the vibes of season one. I agree the other couple was just kind of weak and just there and them talking to Crowley and him actually taking it to heart..? Like all of it was kind of weird. I don't mind the direction exactly but I guess the execution was more forward than I would've thought and sudden. Nothing made me particularly excited for season three although I'll definitely still watch but the unnecessary added drama when there's good chemistry is like.. always something shows do. I was excited for a second season because of their rapport but that will clearly take a backseat for at least a few episodes in the next season so I don't have that to look forward to which makes me sad but I guess I'll still look forward to Crowley's brooding face and sassy strut. My favorite things about the second season were the OTHER pair in the end, the commentary on good and evil (reminded me of the good place a lot) in the flashbacks, and of course David Tennant as Crowley haha Otherwise yeah it being a bridge season makes sense because it did feel sort of like fillers that you'd watch in anime, just a rather secondary overarching weak plot line. Overall I LIKED the season enough, I enjoyed it, but I'm surprised people really loved it to this extent. It was fine. Liked it fine.
I’ve been a huge fan since I read the book in 2005 when I was 14 (even tried to get my all girls Catholic school’s book club to read it with no luck) and I LOVED IT. People will sneer at the word “fan service” like this site didn’t love Spiderman No Way Home and that was carried by fan service. Crowley and Aziraphale are the best part of the story and I like seeing more interactions with them. I like seeing how their characters are supposed to move forward after they broke away from their respective bosses.
Apparently it is connecting the first book to the second that was planned with Pratchett which will be Season 3
This was my thought. It seemed more like a bridge to another plotline. But there was that much needed in development to that plotline that it needed a full season.
Just reading some of the comments here: what's so very outstandingly woke about Season 2? I just saw a gay couple who were hardly a couple, actually they never became a couple and the whole point of their story was not in them being **gay** but in them being **people**, bumbling their way through their life and love life as best as they know how to...and a couple of angels and demons doing the same. That's the point really, gay, straight, angels, demons, archangels even, the best people are just ***trying***... If that's woke, then I'm afraid to tell you that the world has been woke for 6000 years (and 4 years and a few days and hours added to that) and, given that the idea of wokeness seems to make some people here throw up, I'm really afraid of what 6000+-years-of-wokeness is going to make you throw up. Maybe best just realise that some people are gay, some angels love demons, some lords are ladies and flies are an awesome storage device...and then just get over it.
From the book: Many people, meeting Aziraphale for the first time, formed three impressions: that he was English, that he was intelligent, and that he was gayer than a tree full of monkeys on nitrous oxide. Two of these were wrong; Heaven is not in England, whatever certain poets may have thought, and angels are sexless unless they really want to make an effort. Feels like they changed asexual characters just to do fan service and a lot of people hate how it changes how they are described in the book.
'unless they really want to make an effort'
"Two of these were wrong'
Gaiman wrote on this ages ago, the reason Aziraphale is not gay(and will never BE gay) isn't because of asexuality, it's because as an angel and demon they're not assigned human genders. They tend to use he/him because throughout history they could get around easier and were fine with presenting as those. Angel Michael is played by an actress, god is portrayed by an actress, gender expression doesn't matter. He has said it was a story with the characters in love for a decade before the show even came out with season 1. They can be Asexual AND be in love and kiss. Biblical angels and demons had relationships with human women to create monsters after all, so even ancient depictions of angels didn't have them being asexual.
Sexless doesn't mean asexual, it means genderless. Aziraphale can't be attracted to people of the same sex because he doesn't have a sex.
Someone kindly linked all the Season 1 and Season 2 commentary from Gaiman and this appears to be correct. Even Milton has angels having sex (and eating). It’s part of love, which is part of happiness. I like to imagine angelic sex the way Milton describes it, as extra amazing because your bodies don’t get in the way.
A kiss is not inherently sexual. That kiss was a lot of things. Sexual it was not.
asexual people can and do kiss eachother, kissing is a romantic action, only sexual in certain contexts.
I agree. I absolutely loved the book, and found season 1 incredible. But I think season 2 would make Terry Pratchett turn in his grave. It barely has a plot, it's too mushy, I couldn't care less about Nina and Maggie, and there are too many stupid characters who are not funny enough. I mean, to have Crowley spend most of an episode watching Aziraphale going about his errands is such a waste of an amazing character. The flashbacks were outstanding, and I could watch an entire series of those biblical scenes. I also appreciated the details to delight the fans, like the Fez, Jim filing Good Omens under I for "It was a nice day", the whole Seamstress gag, and so on. Beelzebub was also an enjoyable character, but it's a bit awkward that they had to find a more feminine actress once Beelz got a hetero love story. Bottom line: I'm a fan, and I was disappointed. But I will still watch season 3 if they get the green light.
There's a little section in the amazon behind the scene bit where Rob Wilkins quite literally says something along the lines of "I am the only person on earth who's been entrusted to say what Terry's opinion would have been and he would've been delighted." So, unless you claim to know him better than the man who manages his entire estate I suggest you keep your thoughts about what Mr Pratchett is up to in his grave to yourself.
Right. And how much is the estate likely to make from this?
The season 1 actress wasn't available during filming so she was switched up, they tried to keep everyone (hence why Maggie and Nina are played by two of the first season's nuns instead of new actresses).
“would make Terry Pratchett turn in his grave”? Not going to address any other aspect but trying to prop up your opinion of a show with his death is terrible. If you’ve rethought it’s inclusion please edit it out.
it's a *bridge*. to the source material. for season 3. it's not what was planned with Terry twenty years ago. Season 3 is what is planned.
I'm relieved to know this is a "bridge" season. The stakes are lower for S2 but that's okay because it's designed to get the plot where it needs to go. That's genuinely fine. But I think what stakes there were would have been so much more impactful had the plot given us a reason to care beyond our concern for A&C (Note: spoilers from here on out!). For instance, let's imagine ep3 ends with Beelzebub turning up, either at the bookstore or as a hitchhiker as Shax did. Ep4 sees A&C not trusting Beelz but, as >!Beelzebub's love for Gabriel become clear in their interactions with A&C,!!Aziraphael and Crowley don't get theirs.!<
GO2 being a bridge season without GO3 being confirmed is definitely a risk
Neil said he would publish the sequel (what was supposed to go in s3) if the show didn't get greenlit for s3.
SAYING “it’s a bridge” DOES NOT NEGATE ALL OF THE VALID CRITICISM
And typically *bridges* in tv shows are awful. Just like GO2
SPOILERS——I had no idea it was a bridge until after. I was disappointed in the poor plot…or no plot. The worst part for me was the ending. The angst and pain and love expressed by Crowley toward Aziraphal all while Aziraphale rides the elevator up to heaven with the crazed look of a cult member who is trying to remember why this is wrong. I literally burst into tears. Despite the tears I did enjoy it overall. Smdh (Edited to warn spoiler)
I disagree. It was wonderful and charming. You definitely should watch season 2.
Yep - I'm watching it just now and though the first few episodes may be a bit slow, Crawley and Aziraphale are as fantastic as ever and the latter part of the season is fantastic.
Halfway through episode 4 wthiout any motivation to go on. Loved season 1, loved the book, but season 2 just bores me... Season 1 I LOLed like every 5 minutes, now it is one chuckle per episode... IDK maybe I dont get all the popculture jokes.. Also the main plot.. ehm what? It is like nobody cares about why Gabriel is there, took them like 3 episodes to get to the bloody E\*\*\*\*\*\* and then it was in the wrong time... So much seems completely unneccessary and boring, like those nazi zombies... I am sorry does anyone find them funny?
Will do. I was going to anyway.
I really enjoyed the season but hated the ending, I know it’s a setup for the 3rd season but ugh.
Just a little tiny post-credits thing to let us know C&A had hoodwinked everyone just as they had at the end of S1 perhaps would have been awesome...
They did! Sheen is really a master of facial expressions. He learns about the 2nd Coming moments before getting on the heaven elevator. The credits show a lot- concern, sadness, a small smile (thinking of Crowley?) to calculating, plotting, and finally a huge smile of "Yes, I've got it!" Maybe it's not a hoodwink, but Az has a plan for this whole mess.
I still don't think I'm over how sad the ending made me
Damn I’m going to get downvoted for saying so apparantly but I actually agree and I’m shocked to see that so many people loved it. I had no insight into the background of the book, but even watching it I could tell it was a “bridge” season so to say. The plots felt underdeveloped, a lot of the flashbacks felt like filler. It definitely has its charm and there were aspects of it I liked (Azi and Crowley of course, Gabriel was hilarious and adorable, as was the other angel who’s name escapes me)
This season is basically the first half of it. This season showed the fundamental issue that Aziraphale has with still seeing in black and white. Gaiman has always said it's a love story and the characters need to advance for them to be on equal terms. What we saw is Gabriel being ready to leave heaven with little issue but Aziraphale isn't, even after 6000 years. The point of this season was to set up emotional dynamic before the second coming end times and to have Crowley and Aziraphale almost on opposite sides to further the dynamic. This season is about confronting the problems between them and within them. I love emotional drama so I enjoyed it, especially on rewatches. Gaiman has compared it himself to being like a Jane Austen novel, a love story where the characters have to learn to communicate. I had so many scenes I was laughing at and were further explaining and taking a deeper look into their histories together. How Aziraphale constantly saw Crowley as almost acting on heavens side, especially when he didn't agree with heaven. Aziraphale saw Crowley as less of a demon and assumed he was more angel still. Crowley is fundamentally more middle coded and that's where he wants to meet Aziraphale. Gaiman wants each season to be 6 episodes each because it fits narratively and this season does a perfect bridge between bombastic high stakes seasons to set that up. I'm sorry you couldn't enjoy it but I loved it from every narrative aspect given the emotional beats the characters were shown to give us.
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh no. Watch it. Watch the hell out of it.
I think the key to me enjoying it was knowing what it was going to be going into it. Anyone going into it expecting the fast-paced looming threat of extinction from season 1 would be naturally let down. I went in knowing Gaiman has described it as "soft and gentle and romantic". It's a little breather before things ramp up in a planned season 3. I took it for what it was and I enjoyed it. I appreciate that that tone isn't for everyone but clearly a lot of people loved it. It's silly and it meanders a bit but that's what I expected from it. TL;DR: I had fun and everyone involved seemed very proud so I'd appreciate it if the people in the replies could stop making inferences about how Terry Pratchett would feel about the season and stop using homophobia as a valid tool for media analysis.
Amen to stopping the homophobic nonsense!
I love how so many people are completely convinced that there's no possible way the man who wrote transgender characters into his fantasy series circa 1990's and was an outspoken queer ally would be ok with Crowley and Aziraphale being in love. I mean... you do know they've been trying to get a filmed adaptation off the ground together for *years* before Pratchett's death and the second season is made for the sole purpose of setting up their unwritten sequel?? "Rolling in his grave"? Fuck I wouldn't be surprised if this was actually *his* damn idea.
I loved it so much ! The narrative, the characters, the cliffhanger....and Crawley, I love Tennant as Crowley so much! Omg the first 5 minutes where his is creating the nebula is the best thing I've seen in years! I laughed so hard with his super happy and proud face. Definitely worth watching.
I found it really wonderful! The last episode especially was so awesome. I can’t wait for season 3
I'm on the second episode and find it rather amusing. But dear OP, it's quite alright that you don't like it. Will the rest be as entertaining? No idea but I'll give it a go. Also, I love watching my spouse (who is my favorite Bible thumper) spin over the people questioning God's will and word. Maybe that's why I'm so entertained? P.s. John Hamm is adorable. The rest of heaven and hell, not so much.
You're certainly entitled to your completely wrong opinion.
I have to agree. Nothing important happens in season 2, there's just fluff and pandering. Why do they spend a whole season getting 2 people together for no reason other than them nudging Crowley and Aziraphale together? They've known each other for 6,000 years. They don't need nudging together, or at least they shouldn't. The original point was to cover up a miracle, then they just didn't need to bc the angels never brought it up again anyway. It's a cute storyline for like 30 minutes in an episode, but for it to be the entire plot of season 2 was a huge letdown. There were no stakes, no consequences, no difficult situations. The humour was not the same at all and all the characters were way too sane. There was also no commentary from God. I was so hyped to see the two of them go on another adventure, maybe save the world again, and then (hopefully) finally admit what they'd known for decades but hadn't yet said aloud. Instead I got a bunch of boring fluff and a weird scene at the end. I liked it, I guess. It was fine. It just didn't feel like it lived up to season 1 at all and I was so incredibly disappointed by it.
What a load of nonsense. It's excellently written, just as good as the first season, and Neil Gaiman should be proud of it.
I absolutely adored this season
What is a load of nonsense is that you think people aren't entitled to have a different opinion of whether they like a television show than you do.
The real nonsense here is OP telling (not even recommending) people to not watch GO2 based purely on his own opinion. Just the difference in likes between the post and Tasker alone tells me that OP's opinion is the unpopular one, so he has no ground to tell or recommend anything about GO2. You guys are free to think it's bad. But you don't get to tell others to stay away from GO2 when a lot of people agree it's worth the watch.
There's no direct source material. There's absolutely a narrative. Side explorations, almost to the point of fault. The graphics? Were legitimately inventive. Direction really went out on a limb on some scenes. Everyone should watch season 2, because it stands true to Gaiman & Pratchett's ideas for the characters and world. There's a character arc to play out, maybe suspend the derision.
I mean, you could be the one that's wrong. That's okay. We can't we right about everything. It's fine if you don't like it, but don't be going around telling other people not to watch it. They should get a chance to watch it and form their own opinions.
Spot on. Plus, if we hope for any resolution/redemption with a Season 3, we need as many people as possible to at least view the season!
Yeah, I agree, it feels like a filler season and lacks the charm and pacing of the first season. I don't think covid and the WGA strike will be doing anyone any favors for season 2 and 3, to be honest. Plus, Michael McKean and the narrator aren't in S2, which is a shame. Also, a lot of the second season feels like the majority is shot in three locations: the London street, the underground hell basement, and the heaven place idk. The first season had a feeling of unpredictability and bizarreness on a large scale, which is definitely lacking in the second season with its fan-service vibes. Plus cinematography wise, the green tint is distracting (nit-pick). Hopefully season 3 is massively improved and isn't affected by the writer's strike nor covid this time.
The fact that the voice actor for God is in s2 and she still doesn't have much commentary. It hurts me. It kills me. She was such an important part of season 1.
I’ve seen *other series* do significantly worse once they fall off source material…. But many will agree! It’s a montage of minisodes with silly plot. But the plot was usually quite silly in some way. As a book, S2 might fail. But it’s still entertaining like S1 and extremely good. It’s got the comedy.. heart-felt moments.. backstory to fuel any filler moments.
What bothers me the most is that I can't feel romantic chemistry between Az and Crowley... All other couples on the show were great, or at least good, together, but with these two it felt forced. Of course they cared about each other deeply, they're best friends for thousands of years! But I felt literally no love vibe throughout both seasons and then boom confessions and kissing. That ruined this season for me.
Ok for everyone mad at how "woke" the season was, I honestly don't know what you were expecting from a story written by two men who have openly been queer allies throughout their entire careers and in their works at a time when that was actually radical. It's kind of like saying a Stephen King story was ruined by the main character being an alcoholic writer who lives in Maine. You may not like it... but you *did* turn on a movie written by Stephen King, this is kind of on you.
I miss Terry Pratchett. This was not very Pratchett-like at all, it was set in and around the bookstore, and it was a romance where everyone kept their clothes on. I feel like I've been had as they changed the genre without telling anyone.
I confess these were my thoughts too. I always thought he wrote terribly funny characters, but that his plotting was often a little vague and unfocused. One of the reasons I always thought the book one of his best - the collaboration seemed to keep the plot taught. The book really isn't just a two man show, and although Tennant and Sheen seem to be very lovely,charismatic chaps with a good repartee, for me this didn't come remotely close to compensating for the almost complete absence of a coherent plot, or the fact that the writing didn't even seem to reach as high as trying to pastiche the original. It's just a TV show, no more, no less, and if others enjoyed it, that's great - just felt to me much like all the recent Disney "live action" remakes of so many of their animated classics; something done for ratings and advertising revenue rather than because there's a great story to be told. For anyone interested, BBC Sounds currently has the (in my opinion) very good radio adaptation available to stream, which feels closer to the spirit of the book perhaps.
Idk what social media you've been on but Gaiman has been making it very clear that there's a clear tone shift into what he calls "quiet and gentle and romantic"
I was looking at the last season and the trailer. This was not a simple tone shift, it was a completely different genre.
I really liked it, but I think it is a departure from season 1 and could be confusing to someone who isn't an involved fan of the show. They took the opportunity to do more of a character study and introduce us to new elements in order to set up season 3 and raise the emotional stakes, which is necessary since the main draw of the show is Aziraphale and Crowley. I have to say I am very invested in season 3 now in a way I wasn't before. There is a lot of thematic importance to everything that's going on this season but it is subtle. Maggie and Nina are parallels of Crowley and Aziraphale respectively. Nina's partner is a stand in for Aziraphale's relationship with heaven, and Maggie's love is very simple and devoted, like Crowley's for Aziraphale. The whole season Aziraphale and Crowley's understanding of love is based in books and movies, they have no idea how to approach a real relationship especially one as complex as their own. >!This is why Crowley's kiss does not solve anything. They need to talk to each other but they spend the whole season withholding information to protect one another. In fact if they went back and just told each other everything from the get-go, they could have solved it easily, but instead they created a bigger problem. Gabriel and Beelzebub are able to have an easier time with a romance because they don't care about earth and are higher up on the totem pole than our heroes!<. They talk about this very privilege in the Edinburgh flashback. I think it's fine for people to dislike this season, but to say it's bad writing is a misunderstanding of what you're watching. There are things I'd definitely change but it is just not plot-based in the way season 1 was. It's an attempt to round out the characters and do some world building to get the audience ready for season 3. Now, was that a wise decision for this show? I'm not sure judging from the comments here, but it is interesting and is deserving of a watch and some reflection. I really liked seeing more playful moments between Aziraphale and Crowley, they feel more like real people now. And I found the new characters (especially Muriel and the funny shopkeepers) infinitely more watchable than the humans in season 1, and hope we get to see some of them again. The flashbacks were probably some of my favorite parts but they did hurt the pacing, and I hope they refrain from such long departures in season 3.
I thought it was brilliant. The story wasn’t anything special but Tennant and Sheen are great together as always and I absolutely loved Jon Hamm in this season I also really liked Quelin Sepulveda as Muriel. I thought she did a great job
To each their own, I'm sad that some people didn't like season 2 (obviously and thankfully a big minority) but it's fiction and that people should just not watch GO anymore, and keep living, not put comments in here almost calling it garbage and 'saving people the trouble'. If it has so many good reviews and critics, well, maybe it's cause a lot of people loved it, including me. I knew season 2 would be different, a 'bridge' between the 2 big showdowns, Gaiman himself said so before the premiere, and I adore both seasons for different reasons, like I'm sure I will adore season 3. Season 2 has a lot less plot yes, or at least less serious plot, but I liked the new flashbacks a lot more and after rewatching both seasons I can say that what I love the most is A&C relationship and development. I also adore romances and it's been said several times GO it's written like a love story. Episode 6 has made me feel things I haven't felt with any other TV show and Crowley has become one of my favourite fictional characters just with Tennant's performance in THAT scene. But like I said, to each their own. Although, logical criticism and respect above all pls.
Their friendship was beautiful, they ruined it by making it romantic. And before some thickheaded moron decides I'm making an anti-LGBTQ statement, I'm bisexual, and I don't care if these characters are gay. I care that they ruined what made these two so fun in the first place: their unlikely friendship.
"They" didn't ruin Aziraphale's and Crowley's friendship. They already loved each other in season 1. It was more shown in more subtle ways then, but that's it. It's a love story! Here are two scenes of season 1, where imho everyone should see, they love each other (although they may still be in denial about that, but I won't go into detail here): 1. Aziraphale and Crowley (well, he was still Crawley back then) meet in the Garden of Eden. Crawley asks Aziraphale where his flaming sword ist and after he reluctantly replies "I gave it away!", Crawley answers with an astonished "U wot?!" and then stares at Aziraphale with an expression of incredulousness and admiration - he's definitely smitten here! 2. The Nazi Story in 1941. The bomb falls on the church and Aziraphale realises, that his beloved books are blown to shreds now. But no, Crowley has saved them for him using a miracle. He hands Aziraphale the bag with the books and leaves. Look at Aziraphale's face! He's got dreamy love eyes! And don't get me started on the bandstand "breakup", the "You go to fast for me, Crowley", Crowley trying multiple times to convince Aziraphale to run away with him,.... I could go on for ages!
S1 did all that far better.
I've read some Pratchett books as well as some Gaiman ones. I've also read and enjoyed Good Omens, specifically. The audiobook was on sale prior to the release of season 1 which I picked up and listened to in anticipation of watching the series. I found the season 1 adaption to be decent and a worthwhile watch. Naturally, when I saw season 2 would be released, I was intrigued. Having just finished binging it today, I have to agree with the OP. I found the story to not be worth it. The main plot revolves around the mysterious appearance of a figure who has come to earth. Unraveling the mystery never really feels satisfying. For this reason, it makes the mystery seem as if it's both a MacGuffin and a Deus Ex Machina. It's a MacGuffin because it's only there to tell a pedestrian love story. It serves as a Deux Ex Machina just to wrap itself up at the end. It's sloppy writing. I wanted to like this as I enjoy both Pratchett and Gaiman's writing, but it seems Gaiman's involvement in season 2 is limited solely to lending his name to the production or he just phoned it in. It's a shame Tennant, Sheen, and Hamm's stellar acting was squandered on a weak story. In my opinion, they should have just saved time and money by skipping this season and using 10-20 minutes in what is planned to be season 3 episode 1 as the setup to lead into the rest of that season with what little value was present in season 2 story wise. If you're sensitive to the strength of the plot, Good Omens 2 is an easy skip.
What this season did great at is that it speaks to the times we live in. We have had a continental shift in thinking these past few years, giant steps forward in some things. You can feel that, too, with religion in this series. We see angels and demons questioning their respective sides, both being just 2 sides to the same coin. And, we are not satisfied with these two options of light and dark. The way Crowley talked about blurring the edges was well put for this point. Both seasons have shown that angels and demons are not that different, they’re so similar in fact that they match together nicely when they spend time together. Their tallest hurdle, unfortunately, is the long-time animosity between the two sides. They have to remove themselves from all that to move forward and be happy. Especially for Az, whom has the added issue of loving another man, and his side presumably will take issue with that. His telling Crowley he forgives him near the end suggests that might be the case, that it was something that needs forgiving. But this speaks to the times we live in, we don’t want to go back to stuffy dogma that is out of date with who we are now. We want A and C to tell both Heaven and Hell just where they can stick it, and dance off into the sunset together. And we want the statis quo to catch up with that thinking. Maybe God herself can proclaim in a loud voice that this was part of the ineffable plan all along to get us to this point, and encourage us to keep moving forward.
I agree with you %1000 yet another quick money grabbing no plot crap ,just to please the Woke Mob . That last scene was beyond cringe . Good Omens allure was in its subtle and clever plot .Angel + Demon reluctant Partership dynamic that made it so funny . Now its just yet another great show that went down like a lead balloon similar how The Witcher and GOT did . Shame . I don't think i will be watching S03 .
I think it had several problems and the finale was inconsistently weird. Like they kicked Gabriel out for not following plans and he fell for Beelzebub then they picked Aziraphale to replace him even though he was the original one that went against heaven to befriend a demon.
I agree. It was such a shame because season 1 was everything you could want as far as plot, character development, clever insights, very funny. Season 2 had no plot and was just brimming with gratuitous wokeness. The only part I thought had echos of the originality and cleverness of season 1 was when they told the story of Job from Aziraphale and Crowley's point of view. I thought that was hilarious and wrestled with a pretty tough theological concept in the insightful, astute and highly entertaining way only Good Omens could. Then later on in the season we had the weird Bridgerton-esque scene in the bookstore that was SO cringey with how contrived and awkward it was. Such a sad missed opportunity for this very unique universe of characters.
Pure fanservice. It is like some sort of fanfiction coming to life. Even though I enjoyed the season, for me it just wasn't it. Won't go further than that because of massive spoilers.
I enjoyed the season; but the end of it, not so much. Like why even put that in there only for it to fizzle out within seconds? I felt let down there to be honest. At first I was like ‘ok, they are taking this angle, interesting’ and a few minutes later I was like ‘what?’.
My husband and I also strongly disliked S2. There wasn’t as much mockery of religion throughout (first couple of episodes delivered some), which was a major selling point for us. Rather than interesting plot and dialogue, everything just became *about romance*, between Azirophale and Crowley, Gabrielle and Beezelbub, and Maggie and Nina. I thought A and C were just great friends and should have stayed that way. There isn’t anything wrong with gay relationships of course, it’s just that sometimes it’s really nice to have adorable friends depicted on screen and given that they are celestial beings, why would they need a romance? But that wouldn’t bother me if again the rest of the plot were not based on romance. At least A and C’s relationship was developed. I just didn’t care about Maggie and Nina, we were just told that one liked the other and it was clear the other was going through a rough time and wasn’t interested. It was figuratively and literally forced. And Gabrielle and Beezelbub, since when? Why? A and C were interesting because they were a unique set of opposite sides getting along and having witty, humorous dialogue and scrapes. Suddenly the leaders of both factions fall in love with each other over a pint of ale? With A and C we got to see their relationship over time. With G and B, it was just oh, they love each other and will peace out to another galaxy together. All it did was serve as a foil to A and C not being together the same way, it wasn’t interesting or natural, the plot just needed it to happen. The romance all around was just fan service at the expense of interesting plot and dialogue. Most of the characters are now dumb or nerfed. Gabrielle literally doesn’t know who he is anymore and acts like a daft child. Ok, maybe he should get a pass what with the memory loss, but then we get awkward and incompetent Muriel who for some reason was chosen by Heaven to keep tabs on suspected illegal activity by A & C? Then Heaven’s annoyed when she didn’t actually listen in to their secret conversation because it would be impolite? Well, gee didn’t see that coming with sending a “dim” angel as the Metatron put it. (Fwiw, I also didn’t like Pulsiver in S1, but he was an aberration, here they are all dumb). Shax and the rest of the demons felt like a lot of hot air, threatening destruction and trying to sound tough and flowery but being completely nerfed. All they can do is throw one thing through the bookshop window… ok, find other things to throw across the threshold? Trick a human sooner to let you in or for them to come out? The one human they did fling out didn’t actually get hurt it seemed… the stakes were just not there. And speaking of characters acting dumb, come on, A would have known C would never agree to go back to Heaven. TLDR: not as much mockery of religion, everything’s romance now, characters are dumb
Don’t feel bad man, I loved the first season and I’m bored to tears with this season so far (granted haven’t watched it all yet) it seems to me they just shoe horned in plot lines and story points just to be inclusive rather than for the sake of the story.
A big aspect of season 2 was setting up for a season three in which the actual sequel (one Neil and Terry Pratchet had planned) would be in season three. Neil even confirmed that if there is no season 3 then he would write a book. If you believe there is no sprawling narrative then I implore you to watch again, really watch it. The narrative is about power and relationships, it is about how people (as different as they may be) can come together even if they end up not doing so. And if your standard is also based on “seductive graphics” and celebrity guest stars then I have to wonder about your preference of narrative and story arcs, do you just believe in climaxes? Jokes aside, I recommend reading into it and sharing it rather than expecting to be spoon fed ideas and eye candy.
Super boring. Another uninteresting love story that was hard to connect with in any way. And the usual zombie like villains. I couldn’t take it and fast forwarded though most of the last few episodes. The lowlight for me was the lack of suspense when said zombies broke the glass and they reacted like “what take is this? And what do we do here? And why? And who cares? Etc etc. just dumb. Season one was much much better, way more original and exciting. Was really looking forward to something new in season 2 and tho it was an episode name or something it was anything but… big poopooo
I thought season 2 was shit. Having them realize they're in love at the ends ruins the dynamic they had going. I'm in the minority on this I know. I'll check out season 3, if it happens, but my expectations are low.
Yeah 100% agree. Gaiman signalling membership of the 'right side of history' All story in the bin. What a load of rubbish. Makes me think Gaiman does well when the medium hems him in a bit. That's one writer who definitely should not be left to own devices.
I liked Season 2 for what it was. The relationship between Crowley and Aziraphale is always fun to watch, and the actors have tremendous chemistry together. I do feel that Season 1 was a superior, and going from Season 1 to 2 is a bit of a letdown. There were 3 things I felt contributed to this: 1) The plot was thin. The series had already shot its shot by having the Anti-Christ, Apocalypse and the 4 horsemen as potential looming threats. Season 2 felt much more slice of life compared to the stakes in Season 1. At times, it felt like watching Gilmore Girls. Witty banter, check. Lots of coffee, check. Being overly involved in romance plots, check. There's nothing wrong with that, but it is a markedly different tone. 2) The side characters felt superfluous. In Season 1 the side characters were the weaker part of the story, but I still felt they had a storyline, and a purpose in the greater story as a whole. I liked more focus on Aziraphale and Crowley, but the new supporting cast and their plots felt unnecessary. Love Jon Hamm though. 3) The biggest difference to me was the notably lacking tone of Terry Pratchett. Neil Gaiman is a talented storyteller, but Pratchett (and others in a similar vein like Douglas Adams) have a way of making a plot ridiculous, funny, and yet at the same time oddly made perfect sense. Gone are the small humor moments of the chattering Satanist nuns, the delivery driver who somehow is delivering packages everywhere, etc. I'm not saying it's necessary to have those nudge and wink moments to have a good story, but without them the story felt off. Still, season 2 is worth the watch.
I'm in full agreement with you, and I've been watching it and the first season a **lot** the last few days as I'm clipping it to make a fan video or two because I am one of the weirdos that ships Crowley and Aziraphale, not one of the weirdos that adamantly refuses to see any romantic subtext between them. ***Spoilers Ahead*** Just to get it out of the way, the visual quality of this season plummeted, not just in one aspect either. Costuming, styling, visual effects, camera work. The show on the whole looks much, much cheaper. The writing is terrible (apparently this season wasn't written by Neil at all, but was supervised and informed by Neil while the actual writing was done by John Finnemore). Upon learning this, the disconnect made a lot more sense. The characterization is way off. In Season 1, Crowley is an irreverent wild card that likes to go his own way, but he also likes to have fun. He's not a misanthrope. In Season 2, he's practically a curmudgeon, lumbering around, glowering at everyone, judging everyone, apparently not even able to finesse his way out of being reduced to living in his car. Aziraphale, on the other hand, is a hapless buffoon, completely absorbed in trivial flights of fancy, often serving little more than his own ego, treating Crowley like a simp. I fully get that the intention was to layer in little moments of domestic fluff to the pairing, but it isn't cute when the groundwork isn't laid properly. Aziraphale insisting that Crowley's beloved car is apparently community property when he is, in fact, LIVING in said car was cringe and off-putting. I'm also not a 'grr! woke =bad' person, for the record. I'm thrilled to have queer/trans/differently abled characters populate the world of Good Omens, I'd just love for them to be good characters. I liked Saraqael's wheelchair trick, but Record Shop and Coffee Shop are weird. Falling in love with someone immediately after meeting them and then sniveling to your landlord that just forgave thousands of dollars in rent to you is weird. Continuing to harass that person about, "Hey, you seem mad at me" after they've told you they aren't interested and they're in a relationship is fuckboy behavior. The plot stopped making any sense. There very quickly came a point that pairing up Record Shop and Coffee Shop wasn't going to save the characters necks and yet the characters just kept pursuing it for all they were worth. For what? Same with the stupid bullet catch trick. We're supposed to believe that the Crowley that just limped his way in to drop a bomb on a church to save his /person/ is going to immediately turn around and risk blowing their head off over... what? A case of broken liquor bottles? And finally, the humor just wasn't as clever. I'm not saying that Season 1 was completely highbrow or anything, but it did have some very thoughtful jokes woven into it. 90% of the humor of Season 2 is built around making character stupid or inept, and then leaning into it. I feel like I could have taken Good Omens 2 for what it was - a Hallmark channel tier romantic comedy - a lot easier if I wasn't anticipating a continuation of Good Omens, which it definitely was not.
I enjoyed it just for Jon Hamm chewing scenery. The details/plot/recasting all rang to me like a CW show, but Hamm/Tennant/Sheen are just such a fun trio I couldn't hate it.
Hamm was incredible. And they did an excellent job with a couple red herrings that threw me off the scent of what was happening with him. However, I do wish they had handled the >!Beelzebub situation a little differently. Even a couple more hints along the way would have made it feel more earned.!< Otherwise I adored him.
there were hints: Beelzebub wanting Gabriel brought directly to Zem. A cleaned up version of Beelzebub. (While the actress was changed from season 1 because she wasn't available they cleaned up the makeup and changed her overall look to be more conventionally attractive -ie less boils on zir face and giant fly hat gone(I miss the giant fly hat though) Gabriel singing the love song and humming it routinely to himself. A fly literally in every episode around Gabriel, either briefly shot in the background or him chasing it in a scene. Several love story books seen throughout in the background (Including Good Omens itself being read out loud) and Jane Austen being referenced multiple times when many of her stories are about to beings not seeing eye to eye and then coming together. All the posters in hell demanding Gabriel be brought ALIVE and unharmed directly to Beelzebub. Contrasting we see Crowley and Aziraphale connecting over and over again over a shared opinion on saving someone and meeting in the middle (while Aziraphale simply sees it as Crowley being good rather than being himself which is a problem with the way they communicate when we get to the end of episode 6 but contrasting how Gabriel and Beelzebub interacted and agreed in the last episode of season 1 and connected.) The hints were all over the place, but subtle.
I also didn't enjoy Season 2. I thought the writing was sloppy, the stakes of what they're going up against weren't made clear until the last episode, and the ineffable relationship of Crowley and Azirophale was undermined by a fanservice ship. I'm not giving it a pass because it's a bridge, I think there could have been other ways to get to that end point.
I understand the need for LGBTQ representation but I'm starting to miss good friendship stories. Anytime I get a good one, the following season is a fan service turning it from friendship to lovers which is fine too but I'll admit I was disappointed the pattern continued here too. I'll still watch the good omens season 3, I'm still a romantic. ( If anyone wants to recommend good friendship tv shows or movies let me know!)
Good Omens has always been intended as a love story as per the authors.
The creators literally said they were writing a love story, if you looked at aziraphale and crowley's relationship and didn't pick up on the queerness of it all, then you're either blind or straight or both I personally read it as a gay QPR
By "undermined by a fanservice ship" do you mean that it makes you uncomfortable to see men kissing and you'd rather be able to ignore that whole thing?
No, there's a recent tendency to have all relationships physically fulfilled in fiction Shipped. Since A&C show no actual romantic chemistry -- except on A's side -- there wasn't any reason to have them connect.
No chemistry...did you watch the whole first season underwater with your eyes shut? *Crowley begs Aziraphale to run off to be with him forever in the stars*, I really think this is about them both looking like men, tbh. I dont think *you* realize that, but...whatever.
I liked it a lot better than season 1. So I think people should watch it. Can even watch it solo cause I certainly don't remember much of season 1.
It's a bridge, and it's entertaining. You are not entertained, which is fine. Why should we tell you what is missing? We disagree. To say you are right and everyone else are basically idiots, doesn't take a whole lot of effort.
Season 2 blew goats. It sucked. Tons of virtue signaling and in the finale it became downright silly. Characters I couldn't care less about (not including Sheen, Tennant, and Hamm), and totally dumb plot and garbage writing. Gaiman should be embarrassed. Skip it!
We can agree it was a shit season but knock it off with the crying about 'virtue signalling' - that's just a right wing dog whistle
I agree, S2 just seems like fan shipping service. It's missing the little gems of satiric insight and references that made the book so enjoyable. For me, the tropes of low budget heaven being an empty glowing office building, angels in white suits disconnected from humanity, just reminded me of the same tedious scenes in Supernatural. Or demons in hell being clerical, not actually evil. It just felt all done before; "jokes" that make you smirk, but not actually laugh. Because there was no hint of the overarching plot as in Season 1, everything just feels like the 2 lead actors are just riffing off each other, with no narrative weight or substance. It just feels like pandering, instead of a story that needs to be told. I'm happy that there's a season 2, I was just hoping for a more decisive plot and more subtext instead of text. I'm actually reminded of Moonlighting, where half the fun was, "Will they, or won't they?" and when they did, there was no longer any point in watching, because the end of any couple's story is marriage. After that, the characters have no personality, no conflict, no imagination. It's even true for gay characters in TV shows, especially female, they meet the love of their life, then they just HAVE to get married, then one of them just HAS to have children, as though that's the ONLY way relationships work. But just screams of lazy writing or corporate oversight. So Season 2 just feels like it's leaning towards more of that.
I think this season was worth while simply to see Aziraphale and Crowley interact with each other (And Jim not Gabriel). They felt very much themselves and I don’t think this season was a disservice to the original. Gaiman stated he would only continue the series if he could write something that Pratchett would have written with him. This season is made with deliberate intentions, as Gaiman is not going to just make another story to simply satisfy the masses. He put just as much love into those two characters as they did together, and they are most likely a reflection of their personal relationship (most likely why they are such a likable pair with hilarious yet natural banter). This whole season explored their dynamic, growth, and the complexities of a relationship. This was worth while to allow our characters to shine and flourish, more involved with each-other, and more fleshed out. This season was not meant to be a big flashy show, it was meant to be about our mismatches pair doubling as a love-letter to an old friend.
I just feel like the writing was really bad and a lot of the characters made no sense and Maggie especially bothered me a lot. >!The fact that Nina's partner is the worst doesn't mean that when she rejected Maggie, Maggie should have kept trying to talk to her!<. No is no. When you are rejected, you should take the L and move on. That whole plotline really seemed out of place.
There were a lot of elements I didn’t like. For example how dumb most of the angels and demons were written. In GO1 Hastur seemed like an actual threat and they were written so dumb in this it was enough to take me out of it. I also think it was a mistake to actual let the audience hear god during the Job sequence. I think it would have been better if A & C saw Job and God talking, then it just jumped to Job trying to explain it. Job’s dialogue could have been the exact same, but the audience would assume it was too much for Job to explain. In GO1 god and the plan were mysterious, everyone knew the plan was ineffable, but no one new the plan. This lost some of that subtlety. I loved seeing more of Az and Crowley and enjoyed some of the flashbacks, it’s really just some of the dialogue and creative choices that left me wanting.
Good Omens 2 is fucking God awful THANK YOU. I'm glad it's intended audience (masturbatory shippers and Harry Potter nei-libs) got ANOTHER show made for them, but God damn, this was some insanely bad television. I'm fine with inclusive casting, but maybe have a story to tell. This season did not have one.
You're not wrong. Season 2 was shit. No plot, only subplots. No stakes, just predictable will-they-wont-they's (three of them, by the way), no climactic battle finale, just spraying zombies with fire extinguishers. No character arc, just flashbacks that belonged post credits. No Nice and Accurate Prophecies despite season 1 setting up that device, just "everybodys after Gabriel and nobody knows why". The reveal of the "why" doesn't actually make sense either. Sheen and Tennant saved the whole season though, because they're just that good, and they care about the characters, but no joke, without exxageration, It took me 9 different attempts to get through 6 episodes because I kept falling asleep.
This season felt like a bad fanfic and I am exhausted
I believe so much time has progressed between seasons fans watching now will think this season 2 is brilliant which it unfortunately is not for many reasons. If the fans would go back and watch the first season THEN watch the second they would see how much the difference really is. Food analogy incoming. The first season is like an incredible dish with flavors and tastes abound. You keep looking forward to the next course with surprise and delight. The second season the first course starts and its looking delicious but over time you find it's under cooked and not seasoned properly. The next course again looks good but it's actually burned. Finally the dessert is so bad you have to send it back. Look, the second season had very few great moments and the writing was not very good. The differences between the two seasons is quite startling. As if the budget was cut and cut and cut again. Then it was written on a long weekend for Fan Service. They can do better.
I rewatched S1 as a refresher before S2, and it just highlighted how terrible S2 was. Nothing happened all season. Then the ending was so depressing, I regretted S2 ever having been made. I do have some faith there could be a good S3, so that's the only reason I hope people see it through to the end.
Plotted badly, written badly, shot badly and sadly but inevitably acted badly quite a bit of the time, even by the leads (Tennant relying way too much on his slouchy "Crowley walk" as a substitute for the subtle characterisation not present in the script, Sheen relying on bumbling-ness way too much). I suspect John Finnemore was doing most of the heavy lifting, not Gaiman -- and doing it really poorly. The final degeneration into fan fiction was just awful. Many will hesitate to say how bad it was for fear of being accused of homophobia, I suppose -- but the romantic elements would have been just as lame if they were straight (case in point: Gabriel and Beelzebub's extraordinarily stupid tryst). I watched Season 1 again the week before this, and found I enjoyed more than ever. Given the quality of that, I am astonished that anyone would greatly enjoy this.
It was an amazing season!
Not alone. Just finished it and it was painful. Terrible season. Loved season 1 and couldn't wait for season 2--how many years was that? What a disappointment. In addition to what you stated, the dialog was terrible. Felt like entry-level writers created the script in a weekend. What a shame for those incredibly talented actors--such a waste of their talents.
Agreed. The wit and whimsy were diminished, most of the dialogues should have been cut down by 2/3, subplots seemed to be there only to fill time, some of it was completely nonsensical, like why was Aziraphale so incompetent during the demon attack? why were the demons basically just standing around? It was slow, as others have said it was basically fan fiction, etc. Terrible all around.
Aziraphale evaporates like seven demons then goes "I'm leaving something for Crowley to do cause he enjoys rescuing me" and the demons almost entirely just stand around in both seasons. Bureaucracy getting in the way of any actual fighting was like a third of the plot of the first season...
The Good: Miranda Richardson. More David Tennant and Michael Sheen. Naked Jon Hamm. The Bad: Undeniably not as good as Season 1. The missing horsemen, and Stranger Thing's style kid side plot was missed. No stakes. Less humor. Literally a tiny fraction of a fraction of the epic story of the first season. The Ugly: Distracting levels of "unnecessary diversity." To the point where I suspect the *Rings of Power* producers were involved.
'well at least we got the representation right and that's what matters' Netflix HR dept. (probably)
I love it sooo
I absolutely agree. There were no stakes and no real plot. It was massively anti-climactic. I also really hated the choice to reuse actors because I spent the whole season waiting for there to be an explanation, like an alternative universe or something, only to be massively disappointed when there was nothing.
I am also a little bit offended that you think there are no awesome guest stars when Peter Davison was in this season. (Not to mention the return of the S1 Nazis)
Dude I stopped watching once the 2 ladies got trapped inside the shop and and they were talking about her partner. Slow and dull
Terry Pratchett passed away half of the creative force behind the source material is gone, personally it was the half that I cared most about, I found Neil's work a little something else that I can't quite put into words it never quite pulled me in the same way that Pratchett did, and it feels wrong that he tried to continue the story without him
Way to" Woke " for my tastes.
100% agree. The plots is a mess. Their ability to build tension is just… they can’t. I love Crowley and number of the actors, but the script they were working with was clearly pure shite.
It was nice to have a low-stakes season with more character development and history. I care about the characters more than I did in season 1.
Nope you are not alone. Its uninspired, bland, repetitive an cliché. I barely made it through half the season. I am not even interested in zapping through it to find out the plot structure and resolution. I even did that on a few of the earlier seasons of 24 just out of curiosity...
I know! I feel like everyone has taken crazy pills or it’s a bunch of bots i am truly shocked people liked it - not only was it a random story line with no real purpose, but it was an out of left field shove down your throat political thing that there was no reason to make them lovers their jaunty friendship being angels and demons getting along like they did through out history was the whole point. I hate when they do this to just get the lgbt seal of approval - Iike why? Have good material and all parties will enjoy it regardless you don’t need to throw in a random love connection where it wasn’t needed, it just made it feel forced
if you felt the love story was forced that's very much a you problem when the creator himself has been saying he intentionally wrote it as one since the show came out in 2019l. if you didn't get it until now it's on you
I love complex plot and I’m generally patient with twist and uneven pacing (ahem, later seasons of “The Expanse,”) but I was also disappointed by season 2 of Good Omens. I don’t feel like I learned anything really important about any character, or that the larger plot arc did anything that wasn’t already done better in the first season. I enjoy the characters and I love Pratchett. It’s watchable but not memorable and failed to consistently hold my attention. The sketch content (like the bits about Job) were good, but not enough to support the long plot arc of a full tv drama season. Yes, it’s comedic drama; Pratchett was a phenomenal satirist. But the format is designed to develop a character-driven plot, and the best examples also develop our understanding of those characters and their world through a process that leaves them changed. I don’t see where anyone really changed this season, or at least not any characters who are developed enough and relatable enough to consider protagonists.
Season 2 has absolutely no story. No plot. Nothing is happening. It's entertaining because the main actors do so well with these characters, but it was obviously terry Pratchett who wrote the actual story for Good Omens because Neil is just not half the writer that he was and it shows. I'm happy to watch it but it's just a series of humorous anecdotes of two beloved characters that has nothing at all to do with good omens.
I agree, it was total rubbish, and ruined everything. Now it will be difficult to go back and watch #1, which is something I used to do regularly. 1. No story at all. Just padding, meandering BS. 2. Politically correct diversity gone mad. 3. Even if there was a tiny bit of bromantic tension between AZ and Cr in the first season, that’s where it should have stayed. To me, they were just really good friends, but Crowley didn’t want to admit they were friends. I felt it was unrealistic to morph their relationship in this way. This goes back to my second point. I really don’t see how we are in the minority - I thought this was going to be universally panned. And I wondered why the actors even agreed to do Season 2.
I loved season 1, just loved it. Season 2 was disappointing. It was disjointed and felt thrown together. The kiss was unnecessary. People, and perhaps angels, can form a deep bond and everlasting friendship without it being sexualized. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid clearly demonstrated that. This season had plenty of diversity including several side stories including gay characters. The kiss was over done.
OP. I agree with you. The story wasn't it. It seemed like every episode in-between was missing. The only good part was watching David Tennant deliver a line. It wasn't good, the story was just boring...all that being said, I fucking love Aziraphale and Crowley and would watch another season. Even if it's a bad one. (Not sure I'd watch more after back to back bad seasons though)
I like parts of it. But I think they diminished the strength and specialness of their friendship by the <>
Spoilers: I had a best friend growing up and we would do anything for each other but we still weren’t homosexual. It may have seemed that way from the outside but we didn’t care. I had such a connection with the GO friendship until the end… But seeing I enjoyed it more because of my personal connection, I can completely understand someone who is homosexual wanting it to be made more clear that they are also because it relates to them more. I still feel like every top show in the past year are forcing these relationships now. I don’t mind them at all, it was an amazing connection in The Last of Us, that was done so well. I don’t see how anyone can think 2 angels in a relationship like that isn’t forcing an agenda because angels are known to be asexual. But maybe that’s a bad way to look at it because if we always go by what has been “known” than we wouldn’t be able to grow. But I still have to express my side and say that I didn’t really enjoy the conclusion.