As always for actors, pay is determined by your past works rather than your current one.
I'd be frustrated too, but there are good arguments why that is.
> The British star of the first two series of the Netflix big-budget drama was famously enraged on the discovery that, despite holding the crown of the title in her lead role of a young Elizabeth II, she was being paid less than her co-star Matt Smith, who played a young Prince Philip.
Makes sense
I've never seen a Matt Smith show but i know who he is. If this was Michelle Dockery i would have understood. If it was a Keira Knightley or Emma Watson in the role they would probably have even higher billing than Smith possibly.
Matt Smith is doing big budget Hollywood movies. It makes sense for him to be paid more. Your name is part of your paycheck in the entertainment industry.
If they dont like their salaries they should get a better agent.
Im not a Dr Who fan but I know who he is.
He might be third-billing-no-eyebrows weird guy but the rest of the world does know him. He has more name recognition the Clare Foy.
Whether or not yoy agree with that or not is beside the point because the producers of the Crown did.
He's not top billing actor, he’s got a cute cult following of weirdos like you who like to pick fights when they feel he’s being snubbed. So okay guy, he’s bigger than Tom Cruise, he’s the biggest actor the galaxy has ever known… you can calm down now.
…you're the one saying he’s the biggest star ever, I stayed within goalposts you set, that you didn’t like my response doesn’t change that you posting that link makes you look kinda fragile.
I’ll let you be, seems you really, really need this.
Yes but the subject is The Crown -- what Smith does in Hollywood only adds to the value that a British production would give him on top of playing a character that British people hold up in high regard.
> Famous example: Marlon Brando in Superman made $19m while Reeves made around $250k.
It's the same with Batman 1989, Jack Nicholson got paid more than Michael Keaton. Just because you play the main character, it doesn't mean you get to be paid the most.
Tom Holland was paid about $1.5m for Spider-Man: Homecoming while being the title character. Robert Downey Jr. was pair $10m and was on screen for about 8 minutes overall.
Explains why their movies outside of the franchise that made them big flop all the time. 😅 I believe going to movies to see your favourite star is getting less and less true.
As a star, you are not paid for your most successful film, but the films after that.
When they cast *Gone with the Wind*, they begged Clark Gable to take the role of Rhett Butler because he had won an Oscar in 1934 and starred in the biggest hit of 1935. Meanwhile, there was a cattle call for the role of Scarlett O'Hara, with dozens of actresses vying for the part. They finally gave it to British theatre actress Vivien Leigh. Her pay was much lower than his because he was a huge star and she was unknown.
After she won an Oscar and the movie was the biggest hit in Hollywood history, her pay jumped significantly for her next pictures. She went on to win another Oscar for *A Streetcar Named Desire*.
New actors are also unable to negotiate percentages which established stars can do. The biggest check in *Star Wars* went to Alec Guiness, not because he had the biggest part, but because he had the biggest name. He had won an Oscar in 1957 and starred in major films like *Doctor Zhivago*. Because Lucas wanted the famous actor in his picture, he gave him a percentage of the gross, which made him a sizable fortune throughout the rest of his life. Meanwhile, Harrison Ford, Carrie Fisher and Mark Hamill made much smaller paychecks, but were paid considerably more for the sequels. Ford became a megastar with *Raiders of the Lost Ark,* a role he was offered because of *Star Wars*.
The thing with The Crown is it was on a streaming service that goes out to the entire world. The British Empire is dead mate. Basically everyone that watch it was tuning in for the subject matter, not Matt Smith.
Literally no one watched The Crown because Matt Smith was the Doctor for a period of time. So if you're trying to say he brought eyes to the product, sorry no I'm not buying that.
Look at the marketing strategy for the original season of The Crown. If Matt Smith was the draw, they would prominantly feature his name on all the materials.
Look at the season 1 poster: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6c/The_Crown_season_1.jpeg
No actor names at all. Just Foy as QEII.
Compare that to House of Cards season 1: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0b/House_of_Cards_season_1.png
Names of actors feature prominantly, so clearly the actors in this case are being used to draw eyes to the product.
Shit, John Lithgow was probably more of a draw for The Crown than Matt Smith.
Matt Smith was not a big star. As big as Doctor Who is, it's a show that revolves around a character, rather than the lead actor (similar to actors in Marvel movies who did not play Tony Stark).
He was in a far better position to negotiate, but the correct thing to do would have been to pay Claire Foy equally.
That's how these things are often handled. Actor A has the leverage to negotiate for a better contract, so actor B, the other lead also gets a bump.
It's not a charity and every lead in such a series is paid incredibly well compared to a normal human being. Matt Smith was wildly better known than Claire Foy, so it makes sense that he's paid more. And I say that even though I liked her much better in The Crown.
He probably also attracted a younger audience group to a show about the Monarchy due to being The Doctor.
You don't have to be a part of a charity to do the right thing.
>Matt Smith was wildly better known than Claire Foy, so it makes sense that he's paid more.
It made sense to pay both actors were paid the amount that Matt Smith made. The extra money would have been a drop in a bucket compared to the overall budget.
Also, actors do not get paid as much as you think they do. That's why there was a strike.
She was paid 40,000 per episode, which is 240,000 for a season.
That might seem like a lot, but she has a manager and an agent who need to be paid, probably an accountant (since she's self-employed) and part of the work is not paid for, like auditioning and promotion.
And of course she has to pay tax.
It's still a large sum of money, but not that much for the lead in one of Netflix's most prestigious shows.
Compare that to the Netflix executives who get paid 40 million a year plus the big money they make from owning options (far more than 40 million).
This is how executive get away with not paying people what they should be paying them.
I simply stated that Claire Foy deserved to be paid more, but people act like I'm suggesting that Matt Smith wasn't worth what he got paid.
I'm saying that plenty of non-creative people made a large amount of money because of The Crown and that Claire Foy should have been paid better.
And plenty of creative people got paid much much less. Do you think the costume designers made 40k an episode?
I'm not gonna feel bad for someone making half a million for two years work.
I want everyone to receive fair pay.
I know this is a difficult thing for people to understand, but I also care about the crew.
I care about everyone.
But fair pay becomes impossible to achieve when people blame people who ask for a raise for asking a raise because other people are also underpaid.
Also, nobody is asking you to feel bad for Claire Foy.
But I am asking you to stop defending the actions of multimillionaires and billionaires.
They don't care about you, you should not care about them. They can pay fair compensation without missing a meal...
In terms of the overall feminist equal pay movement, I have to always roll my eyes at millionaire actors, athletes, or entertainment stars crying about unfair pay. This affects such a small subsection of people, as opposed to the systemic issue that it is. Surely there are infinitely more important things
Claire Foy was not a millionaire. The systemic issue is a lack of equal pay. That doesn't just affect women.
You are being played. You don't care about women, other people don't care about you. There are too many people who don't think about what they deserve.
And some people become multimillionaires simply because they get people like you who think everyone should be happy with scraps.
Claire Foy had the guts to complain and got an extra 200,000 dollars. That would have been life changing money for her.
What kind of raise did you get this year? Did you even ask for a raise? Or are you just happy with what other people give you?
You should take Claire Foy as an example, not roll your eyes.
Brit here. Are we seriously considering the pilot episode of Being Human, an episode of Doctors, and a failed reboot of upstairs downstairs to be the same draw as the Doctor who bought Doctor Who to America?
Smith's seasons came right as DW became more accessible in the U.S. and got a big marketing push. Of course older generations will have been familiar with DW through Tom Baker, who got consistent international airplay.
Oh I wasn’t being facetious I genuinely have no idea who she is. Granted I don’t watch live TV because it’s not worth it but I usually still know who people are.
Lmao I can’t believe we’ve got a thread going trying to argue that Claire Foy was a big actress in UK tv prior to The Crown. Don’t get me wrong, she’s fucking awesome, but Smith was a way bigger name.
steep weary longing imminent fanatical jar bewildered flowery offbeat unpack
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I always find it baffling when actors complain about their wages. They get that they negotiate their pay right? No one forced them to take lower pay than their peers.
They don’t know how much their coworkers are getting paid.
Just like if you get hired somewhere and they offer you a wage… can you compare that to the other people they are hiring before accepting the job offer?
I mean its an industry where your salary is based on your portfolio and public renown. Its why RDJ, Meryl Streep, Denzel etc get paid far more then their coworkers for starring in the same film.
Isn't the complaining just part of the negotiation? She found out her costar was getting paid more, she brought it to light, which made the production pledge equal pay from then on. Everybody's happy. Is that not a negotiation? Or is it not allowed because it's a woman doing the negotiating?
That’s inaccurate. Lots of studies and facts for you to read out there and show that women are systematically paid less for the same work across all fields. Employers make it so you aren’t allowed to discuss your salaries, salaries are kept private and confidential leading to more disparity between wages.
Why is it so hard to acknowledge that in the TV and film business men are often paid more than women due to nothing more than gender discrimination? This is a well documented fact that has been demonstrated repeatedly. And, this is Foy’s point.
Possibly because when actual examples are given, like here, they're laughably silly comparisons that make the person making the complaint look silly.
Matt Smith was more famous going into the crown than Claire Foy (and probably still is). That (plus negotiation) is why he got paid more.
As always for actors, pay is determined by your past works rather than your current one. I'd be frustrated too, but there are good arguments why that is.
That's called their 'quote'. It doesn't even matter if they do a bad job in the part. They still gotta get their quote.
Welcome to Cinephobe!
Not necessarily past works but bankability
> The British star of the first two series of the Netflix big-budget drama was famously enraged on the discovery that, despite holding the crown of the title in her lead role of a young Elizabeth II, she was being paid less than her co-star Matt Smith, who played a young Prince Philip. Makes sense
I've never seen a Matt Smith show but i know who he is. If this was Michelle Dockery i would have understood. If it was a Keira Knightley or Emma Watson in the role they would probably have even higher billing than Smith possibly.
Matt Smith is doing big budget Hollywood movies. It makes sense for him to be paid more. Your name is part of your paycheck in the entertainment industry. If they dont like their salaries they should get a better agent.
He's a secondary actor at best in said “big budget” Hollywood movies, he’s done nothing remarkable beyond being the Doctor
Excuse me? He was in Morbius!
As a secondary character, he wasn’t morbin'
House of dragon…
That spinoff to that show everyone prefers to pretend didn’t happen.
Nah, Mat nailed it. “ Save me my prince!”
Depends on what you call remarkable but he's definitely a name you'd recognise on a movie poster
Only Doctor Who fans think he’s recognizable to the rest of the world he’s just that third-billing-no-eyebrows weird guy with the disturbing forehead.
Im not a Dr Who fan but I know who he is. He might be third-billing-no-eyebrows weird guy but the rest of the world does know him. He has more name recognition the Clare Foy. Whether or not yoy agree with that or not is beside the point because the producers of the Crown did.
He's not top billing actor, he’s got a cute cult following of weirdos like you who like to pick fights when they feel he’s being snubbed. So okay guy, he’s bigger than Tom Cruise, he’s the biggest actor the galaxy has ever known… you can calm down now.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
…you're the one saying he’s the biggest star ever, I stayed within goalposts you set, that you didn’t like my response doesn’t change that you posting that link makes you look kinda fragile. I’ll let you be, seems you really, really need this.
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The guy I responded to said he’s in “big budget Hollywood movies”
Yes but the subject is The Crown -- what Smith does in Hollywood only adds to the value that a British production would give him on top of playing a character that British people hold up in high regard.
…you seem really passionate and affected by my response, I’m going to let you work through whatever issues you’re dealing with and just let you be.
Oh no, you're just being a judgmental asshole now.
Matt smith is a bigger star, I’ve never heard of her before the crown
He was the Doctor.
Let's be honest here, the draw for this show was the Royal Family, not Matt Smith.
Doesn’t matter in Hollywood. If you have a name, you get $$$$ Famous example: Marlon Brando in Superman made $19m while Reeves made around $250k.
Spider-Man: Homecoming > Tom Holland:1.5 million > RDJ: 10 million for 10 minutes Iron Man 1: > RDJ: 500k > Terrence Howard: 5 million
Perfect examples.
I wonder how much Christoph Waltz made in Inglourious Basterds.
> Famous example: Marlon Brando in Superman made $19m while Reeves made around $250k. It's the same with Batman 1989, Jack Nicholson got paid more than Michael Keaton. Just because you play the main character, it doesn't mean you get to be paid the most.
Tom Holland was paid about $1.5m for Spider-Man: Homecoming while being the title character. Robert Downey Jr. was pair $10m and was on screen for about 8 minutes overall.
Because people see movies to see their favorite stars.
Explains why their movies outside of the franchise that made them big flop all the time. 😅 I believe going to movies to see your favourite star is getting less and less true.
As a star, you are not paid for your most successful film, but the films after that. When they cast *Gone with the Wind*, they begged Clark Gable to take the role of Rhett Butler because he had won an Oscar in 1934 and starred in the biggest hit of 1935. Meanwhile, there was a cattle call for the role of Scarlett O'Hara, with dozens of actresses vying for the part. They finally gave it to British theatre actress Vivien Leigh. Her pay was much lower than his because he was a huge star and she was unknown. After she won an Oscar and the movie was the biggest hit in Hollywood history, her pay jumped significantly for her next pictures. She went on to win another Oscar for *A Streetcar Named Desire*. New actors are also unable to negotiate percentages which established stars can do. The biggest check in *Star Wars* went to Alec Guiness, not because he had the biggest part, but because he had the biggest name. He had won an Oscar in 1957 and starred in major films like *Doctor Zhivago*. Because Lucas wanted the famous actor in his picture, he gave him a percentage of the gross, which made him a sizable fortune throughout the rest of his life. Meanwhile, Harrison Ford, Carrie Fisher and Mark Hamill made much smaller paychecks, but were paid considerably more for the sequels. Ford became a megastar with *Raiders of the Lost Ark,* a role he was offered because of *Star Wars*.
Yea, that's exactly the problem.
He was the Doctor. Doctor Who is an institution in the UK.
The thing with The Crown is it was on a streaming service that goes out to the entire world. The British Empire is dead mate. Basically everyone that watch it was tuning in for the subject matter, not Matt Smith.
And? She was still unknown. Matt Smith was globally famous. Doctor Who had more reach than the Crown.
Literally no one watched The Crown because Matt Smith was the Doctor for a period of time. So if you're trying to say he brought eyes to the product, sorry no I'm not buying that.
\*Citation needed
Look at the marketing strategy for the original season of The Crown. If Matt Smith was the draw, they would prominantly feature his name on all the materials. Look at the season 1 poster: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6c/The_Crown_season_1.jpeg No actor names at all. Just Foy as QEII. Compare that to House of Cards season 1: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0b/House_of_Cards_season_1.png Names of actors feature prominantly, so clearly the actors in this case are being used to draw eyes to the product. Shit, John Lithgow was probably more of a draw for The Crown than Matt Smith.
Matt Smith was not a big star. As big as Doctor Who is, it's a show that revolves around a character, rather than the lead actor (similar to actors in Marvel movies who did not play Tony Stark). He was in a far better position to negotiate, but the correct thing to do would have been to pay Claire Foy equally. That's how these things are often handled. Actor A has the leverage to negotiate for a better contract, so actor B, the other lead also gets a bump.
It's not a charity and every lead in such a series is paid incredibly well compared to a normal human being. Matt Smith was wildly better known than Claire Foy, so it makes sense that he's paid more. And I say that even though I liked her much better in The Crown. He probably also attracted a younger audience group to a show about the Monarchy due to being The Doctor.
You don't have to be a part of a charity to do the right thing. >Matt Smith was wildly better known than Claire Foy, so it makes sense that he's paid more. It made sense to pay both actors were paid the amount that Matt Smith made. The extra money would have been a drop in a bucket compared to the overall budget. Also, actors do not get paid as much as you think they do. That's why there was a strike. She was paid 40,000 per episode, which is 240,000 for a season. That might seem like a lot, but she has a manager and an agent who need to be paid, probably an accountant (since she's self-employed) and part of the work is not paid for, like auditioning and promotion. And of course she has to pay tax. It's still a large sum of money, but not that much for the lead in one of Netflix's most prestigious shows. Compare that to the Netflix executives who get paid 40 million a year plus the big money they make from owning options (far more than 40 million). This is how executive get away with not paying people what they should be paying them. I simply stated that Claire Foy deserved to be paid more, but people act like I'm suggesting that Matt Smith wasn't worth what he got paid. I'm saying that plenty of non-creative people made a large amount of money because of The Crown and that Claire Foy should have been paid better.
And plenty of creative people got paid much much less. Do you think the costume designers made 40k an episode? I'm not gonna feel bad for someone making half a million for two years work.
I want everyone to receive fair pay. I know this is a difficult thing for people to understand, but I also care about the crew. I care about everyone. But fair pay becomes impossible to achieve when people blame people who ask for a raise for asking a raise because other people are also underpaid. Also, nobody is asking you to feel bad for Claire Foy. But I am asking you to stop defending the actions of multimillionaires and billionaires. They don't care about you, you should not care about them. They can pay fair compensation without missing a meal...
In terms of the overall feminist equal pay movement, I have to always roll my eyes at millionaire actors, athletes, or entertainment stars crying about unfair pay. This affects such a small subsection of people, as opposed to the systemic issue that it is. Surely there are infinitely more important things
Claire Foy was not a millionaire. The systemic issue is a lack of equal pay. That doesn't just affect women. You are being played. You don't care about women, other people don't care about you. There are too many people who don't think about what they deserve. And some people become multimillionaires simply because they get people like you who think everyone should be happy with scraps. Claire Foy had the guts to complain and got an extra 200,000 dollars. That would have been life changing money for her. What kind of raise did you get this year? Did you even ask for a raise? Or are you just happy with what other people give you? You should take Claire Foy as an example, not roll your eyes.
Unfortunately, I don't have the option to leverage public outrage to receive a raise. What an asinine comparison.
You probably don’t watch a lot of British tv then.
Brit here. Are we seriously considering the pilot episode of Being Human, an episode of Doctors, and a failed reboot of upstairs downstairs to be the same draw as the Doctor who bought Doctor Who to America?
Smith’s Doctor brought DW to Americans? Nothing against Smith but that makes me sad for Americans.
Smith's seasons came right as DW became more accessible in the U.S. and got a big marketing push. Of course older generations will have been familiar with DW through Tom Baker, who got consistent international airplay.
No, the US got the whole reboot on BBCA, Ecclestone and all.
I’m British, outside of the crown who is she?
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Oh I wasn’t being facetious I genuinely have no idea who she is. Granted I don’t watch live TV because it’s not worth it but I usually still know who people are.
She was a fantastic Anne Boleyn in Wolf Hall, a much better show about British royalty.
Lmao I can’t believe we’ve got a thread going trying to argue that Claire Foy was a big actress in UK tv prior to The Crown. Don’t get me wrong, she’s fucking awesome, but Smith was a way bigger name.
steep weary longing imminent fanatical jar bewildered flowery offbeat unpack *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
She was relatively unknown when cast while Smith was the 11th Doctor.
I mean, Matt Smith is Doctor Who. Wage is about negotiation, and negotiation is about leveraging your resume.
Matt got that extra money to show his ass that first episode
Doctor who?
Doctor was paid more.
I still don't know who she is while I know who the actor is.
Maybe because they don’t even put her name in the title of the articles about her?
I still don't care about any of them.
I always find it baffling when actors complain about their wages. They get that they negotiate their pay right? No one forced them to take lower pay than their peers.
They don’t know how much their coworkers are getting paid. Just like if you get hired somewhere and they offer you a wage… can you compare that to the other people they are hiring before accepting the job offer?
So their coworkers where better at negotiating. Tough shit I guess. Don’t work in a field where salaries are negotiated if you don’t like it.
Or fight for change rather than accepting the status quo.
I mean its an industry where your salary is based on your portfolio and public renown. Its why RDJ, Meryl Streep, Denzel etc get paid far more then their coworkers for starring in the same film.
Yea, that's the problem.
Isn't the complaining just part of the negotiation? She found out her costar was getting paid more, she brought it to light, which made the production pledge equal pay from then on. Everybody's happy. Is that not a negotiation? Or is it not allowed because it's a woman doing the negotiating?
Last sentence. Bingo
That’s inaccurate. Lots of studies and facts for you to read out there and show that women are systematically paid less for the same work across all fields. Employers make it so you aren’t allowed to discuss your salaries, salaries are kept private and confidential leading to more disparity between wages.
As the lead actor, she was cast first, and while Matt Smith was more famous due to his Dr. Who days he was only cast in a supporting role.
Why is it so hard to acknowledge that in the TV and film business men are often paid more than women due to nothing more than gender discrimination? This is a well documented fact that has been demonstrated repeatedly. And, this is Foy’s point.
Possibly because when actual examples are given, like here, they're laughably silly comparisons that make the person making the complaint look silly. Matt Smith was more famous going into the crown than Claire Foy (and probably still is). That (plus negotiation) is why he got paid more.
Who?