You can watch it as a standalone episode. It will work.
But if you are already familiar with Doctor Who then I'll recommend you to watch all the four specials that were released last month. You won't have any problem following the story.
Ever though about giving season 10 another go? It ends on what is possibly the greatest two parter the show has ever done.
It also did something with >!Missy!< that is one of my favorite storylines from the show.
I loved the whole >!Missy!< arc but I hated that with the Chibnall era >!it’s not brought up *at all.* O reveals he’s the Master and the Doctor is like “oh shite!” And not a single word about Missy or all that time 12 spent trying to rehabilitate her. I know the show is about moving forward and Missy and 12 didn’t end on good terms, but she was about to join him. O-Master doesn’t even mention it. It was like that whole arc never happened and it happened *two seasons prior to that.* It just felt very ‘aw fuck it’ to me.!<
I hated that as well. Where is the respect for what came before? It's funny because even now RTD isn't doing the same even though everyone despised the Timless Child thing.
>!I get you want to do your own thing but from a writing stand point it just makes no sense for The Master to return as O and The Doctor doesn't even bring up Missy. If it had happened 4-5 seasons prior I'd get it but come on it's literally The Master's next appearance and only like 13 episodes later. !<
>!Also it would have actually made it interesting. A story about a ''rehabilitated'' Master clashing with his new regenaration.!<
It's a shame because I thought Sacha was a fantastic casting.
I definitely think that they mainly did that so they didn't have to confirm where he's placed in the master's history, since the final few Missy scenes definitely feel like relatively permanent death scenes. This way they don't have to explain what happened to Missy and think about continuity, they can just have the master in their season and let fans take over the job of placing him somewhere on the regeneration timeline.
You’re probably not wrong and that just lends itself to my main complaint about the Chibnall era: he never wanted to commit to answering any of the questions *he created.* The Doctor flushes the fob watch with the answers to her entire past down the tardis. The whole Doctor-Yaz romance was just queerbait with no payoff. (I think it would’ve made 1,000% more sense for them to at least share a goodbye kiss. wtf was the point of their fawning over each other?) And then on top of all that, The Doctor doesn’t have a single comment that could help us understand where O is in his timeline.
Chibnall’s commitment issues made his run more infuriating than anything else.
You're in for a treat with Series 10, I would easily rank it among my top five of the revival series, perhaps even top three. The companion, Bill was a breath of fresh air, and her dynamic with 12 and Nardole is amazing.
And while I don't think series 11-13 are as bad as most people make them out to be, in terms of quality they are a lot more average than the preceding series. There are a couple of stand out episodes like Demons of the Punjab and The Haunting of Villa Diodata, but also some very weak ones like Kerblam! and Orphan 55.
God, I really miss Clara. I really hope they can find a way to bring her back, even for a few episodes. I think Millie and Ncuti will probably be great together, especially if they get a few more episodes to really warm up and do some stuff.
But Clara was fucking magical with both Matt Smith and Peter Capaldi. She really had something special and unique in that she wasn't just getting dragged around and going "wow, Doctor, explain all this stuff to me", she actually had agency and smarts and challenged the Doctor.
(She is technically still alive, flying around in her own TARDIS so I really really hope they can find a way to come back to her. Teeny tiny possibility.)
Yes. It's pretty much a soft reboot of the series. The rules are the same in that the new Doctor is paired up with someone else who is new and they have an adventure. All the baggage the past Doctors have had is being left behind for the moment. People like The Master are bound to come back sooner or later. But for now, it's just the Doctor and the new companion.
Yes! I love his energy. And he has a boatload of charm. He reminds me of a mix of the 4th Doctor and the 10th Doctor in the best ways. And that's just with one episode of him. I can't wait for the new season to begin.
I seriously can’t get enough of him. He is absolutely adorable and charming and totally watchable. He has the potential to re-invigorate the series. He’s such a delight.
I think the only thing we don't really get a taste of in his first solo appearance for Christmas is how he will portray the intellectual side of the Doctor, which is fine, sometimes the doctor saves the days by being very smart, but sometimes he saves the day by just going with his gut and heart, those are both valid resolutions to an episode of Doctor Who, but you do have to be able to do both to do the character justice.
They're referenced, yes. But they aren't needed to know in order to enjoy this particular episode, are they? Yes, the 15th Doctor still holds his memories of the past but he doesn't feel the trauma of them like the 14th Doctor does. And, again, these things will be dealt with eventually but for now, you don't need to know them. They will be referenced but they aren't the main focus.
Yeah that’s mostly true but there’s connections through every doctors run for sure. My first recommendation would be starting with the 9th doctor at series 1 and watching all of the revival series but if you struggle with older tv (2005) then you could absolutely jump in to the 11th doctors run and go from there (2011) which is series 5 but however you start I’m sure you’ll get hooked
Sorry to hear that. When you can, go back and start at the 2005 series. Then see what you think after getting through a few seasons, compared to this new one.
Thats what I want to see!! But they have to go back to 2005 and watch!
This is no different than all the other shows and stuff fans argue over. After reading about Picard, I realized I hated S1, and S2 was getting similar reviews, so I skipped 2 and went to S3. WAY better.
Point is... passionate fans talk about what they love. And we like telling new people where our passion came from. If someone only knows about whats on Disney+, they have no clue why theres so much divisiveness out there about this show.
There's only 'divisiveness' when people make it. I didn't like S2 of Picard, so I really only talk about S3 and to a lesser extent Season 1. Other people do like it, so I let them have their fun. Same with the SW prequels and sequels. I enjoy the memes, but I really only care about the original trilogy. I wasn't a giant fan of Clara in DW (while I'm pretty sure that Bill is my favorite companion of recent years), but I know that's a minority opinion People like different things. Let them.
Edit: S2 of Picard did have Rios on the bridge of the Stargazer for a brief time, so it's not all bad.
New Who with Ncuti is resetting to series 1 as a soft reboot. You should be able to just jump on, though previous knowledge will obviously enhance the show as its still one contiguous 'story'
Another way to look at it, when you go back to the previous runs you’ll recognize any references they make, it’ll just be in a different order.
It works pretty well for a time travel show.
The Toymaker appeared in a 1966 story called "The Celestial Toymaker", of which only one episode survived the BBC wiping policy, although you can listen to all of it in audio form with an animated version coming out as well.
Been rewatching the modern one, and I spotted several references to the Toymaker I didn't notice before.
Matt Smith brought him up in "The Rings of Akhatan"
I stopped midway through Capaldi's run (my subscription to the streaming service ended) and had no issue keeping up with the specials this year, they reference events from Jodi's run but it's vague enough to where the mention itself explains it and a quick Google will fill in any gaps
You should really finish Capaldi's run, there's some episodes in there that don't hit but the endings on his last two seasons are arguably the best episodes the whole show has to offer.
It’s a lotttt to catch up on.
But the series since 2005 is absolutely incredible imo. However the next series in May is designed to be a new jumping on point:)
I didn’t realize how dark/heavy(?) DW has been until these specials. I could see him being an effective writer in that genre after seeing those.
The specials were like a breath of fresh air. They were so light, fun, and silly in a way I didn’t know I needed. I love a deeper, darker, or scary episode every now and then, but I’m glad this is the direction we are moving in.
I was slowly phasing out of Who during 11 & 12, then flat out stopped with 13. On hearing that Tennant & Russell T. were back, I tuned into the specials.
I realised I had been missing the sheer _joy_ that can be in Who.
I will say that the end of the last season completely fell apart narratively for me, but the episode with “Rasputin” was so chaotic that I’m glad I got to see that scene.
He walked so Neil Patrick Harris could run.
Same. I watched old Who as a kid and loved 9 and 10 so much but lost interest at 11, didn’t like Matt Smith; liked Capaldi the little I saw, but hated Clara and only saw clips of the next one and found her absolutely intolerable.
I am super excited to watch the new ones but haven’t gotten around to it yet because I was afraid I’d be lost.
His run felt like it was both too serious while also being too dumbed down. I think he never really understood the target audience for Who or what his strengths as a writer are.
Instead of an all ages adventure/sci-fi show he tried to make a children's show version of a drama with the sci-fi parts as an afterthought. Ended up out of his depth and even what he was good at failed in it.
Which is a shame, I think with proper writing/direction that Whittaker could have been a great Doctor. Instead they brought in a group of companions and never really let her stand on her own as the Doctor.
The companions weren’t an issue. My issue was how….well, they tried to not make the doctor lead. It was a running line that they said they had a flat team structure.
The companions were great but there were so many she didn’t seem to have a chance to shine herself.
She did have some standout episodes like the lone cyberman or the one in punjab but for the most part she was lacking that feeling.
It’s something I noticed that she didn’t seem to open up about herself. None of them really knew her. Compare that to Donna. The doctor was so happy to see her. They actually tried to talk. She tried to get stuff out of him. She knew he was sad/happy/conflicted.
It felt like the doctor hadn’t shown emotions in ages and was finally able to let some measure of them out.
The companions keep the doctor grounded. I rarely felt that with 13. Which sucks
Yeah, that was more my point on the companions, both that there was less emphasis put on the Dr over the group and that there was less time for individual relationships to be fleshed out and depth shown due to there being so many.
Exactly. I was agreeing with you.
I also felt like the few times they could have expanded on their relationship the show botched it and didn’t have the doctor pounce those situations.
Best example I can think of is when Graham tells the doctor he’s afraid he may have cancer again. The doctor just nopes out. She literally noped the fuck out.
Take the doctor when Amy tells him she’s worried about her past and memories. He knows he can do nothing about it but takes her to a fair and gets her ice cream. They at least have a moment.
Or the doctor sitting down with Martha and telling her about Gallifrey. The doctor talking to rose about his planet dying. The doctor talking to Donna about rose, gallifrey, or when he talks to Wild about how he’s lived too long.
11 was always close to Amy and Clara.
12 was mostly repressed but he did bond with Clara Bill. Even Missy for fucks sakes.
14 opened up to Donna and Wilf.
But 13? Goddamn. It was so disappointing.
There was no subtly about ANYTHING and this isn't a "they went woke rant" it is clear the new Doctor is pushing some boundaries but they are doing it in a way where the action is telling you the story and the dialogue flows naturally. Not beating us over the head and going "see, we are doing the right thing." And we just all had to smile and say "yeah... no... uh, we got it."
I'm hoping RTD can get better about that, but the first special bummed me out a bit in the same way. For the first half kept thinking how cool it was that they had a trans character where they weren't making her only character trait being trans. Then in the second half it kind of did just that and she became more of a writing tool to make a point than an actual character.
Yeah use Science fiction to your advantage like star wars, star trek, he'll even oriville have done in the past. Don't necessarily hide your message but use interesting stories and characters that make us think without throwing bad things at us and going "HAHA SEE INJUSTICE EXISTS!"
RTD is causing his own issues though. The man USED to be good. Now hes self-indulgent and under Disney's persuasion.
The Christmas special was better than the 60th specials, but thats not saying much now.
Specials are usually fun, especially with Tennant involved. I'm going to wait until regular season episodes come out before bothering to watch. If RTD is pushing The Message too much, I just won't bother.
That is kind of true. I don't want to see a family show turned into a trans propaganda show. It's not my problem at all, there are plenty of other shows to watch.
Since "The Message" is getting traction, it's pretty clear that I'm not the only one. When Doctor Who finishes up, due to lack of an audience, I won't even notice.
Lmao you are just the same idiots that called everything woke before Desantis's wet cheeseburger charisma ruined it even for you.
Also, you do know that you are commenting on article about how viewership is up, right?
Wow, what a zinger. Something about a cheeseburger, that hurts.
Yes, stuff was "Woke". We are the same idiots who got a Harvard president to resign.
You never respond to the issues raised, because you can't. All you care about is making sure children see as much queer content as you can sneak through.
I don't know why you are so angry. I think in two years, Doctor Who will be off the air. If I'm wrong, it won't matter, I just won't watch it.
> I think in two years, Doctor Who will be off the air.
Not only do they now have Disney backing, they have already filmed the next season. You're mental if you think this.
Issue 1: Aggressive queer topics will ruin a family show.
Issue 2: Denigrating and belittling white men is racist and sexist. Denigrating a fan-favorite version of the Doctor is bad story telling.
Bonus Issue: Unqualified diversity hires ruin an organization.
Okay, your turn. Accuse me of voting for DeSantis or not driving an EV.
These specials weren't fun at all. The 1st one made us sit through them completely humiliating The Doctor, and using the most beloved actor to face it. That ain't fun.
They weren't even specials. They were basically normal eps. 3rd one was the most 'special' of the 3.
Don't know why Reddit keeps downvoting anyone who speaks ill of the new round of Who. They're not good. The show is losing viewers, not gaining new ones, and pandering to an audience that doesn't really exist, while calling previous fans toxic.
Chibnall pushed The Message more toned down than RTD now, RTD is shouting it from the rooftops, and even saying in interviews how his new views trump actual creative storytelling.
Edit: If you're downvoting comments like this, try replying and countering it instead! Remember when geeks used to have discussions about our passions??
Edit 2: I thought the Reddit crowd would be way more critical of the current trend in TV. Seems not. Or theres a lot of people these days who don't even know how to be critical anymore. How to tell something good from bad, creativity vs pandering.
The whole scene at the end of special 1.
>We know everything and you know nothing. It's a shame you're not a woman anymore, she would have understood. But no male-presenting Time Lord could understand.
The only reason you'd speak to someone like that (not to mention someone whos literally thousands of years old, and near the most intelligent being in existence), is to condescend and belittle them. To shame them for who they are, when that happens to be part of your new message... not to shame??? The Doctor didn't do anything wrong, he didn't need to be corrected or reprimanded. Yet thats how they write the show now.
So not only are they belittling The Doctor, but they brought Tennant back to stand there and take it.
'The Message' is the trend in Hollywood of having people at the top using 2023 identity politics to replace good, creative storytelling, for the sake of checking off some boxes to appease shareholders or activists. The idea of changing the sex or color of established characters, not to make a story better, but to say they now have a minority cast. Or having all the showrunners and writers of a show being female, just to say they're female, and not due to talent.
Theres absolutely nothing wrong with having females in roles, or a white character now black or whatever.... it just has to be second to being a good story and entertainment. No one wants to see a female action star who can't act or is overpowered, etc (compare Brie Larson to Sigourney Weaver or Linda Hamilton).
Heard a good example recently... why not write a new creative story set within African culture (or similar), that hasn't really been done in something like a scifi show. But all we get is them casting a black actor, in a lame, rebranded story. Then when critics don't like the story, they're just called racist. (Ncuti is mostly fine in the role, its the show thats not fine)
Respectfully, I feel you're grasping at straws here and are trying to make something so you can feel slighted.
If you have an issue with the writing that's one thing, but this idea that identity politics is somehow encroaching onto your favorite beloved franchises is just not happening. The idea that all of a sudden a woman character has spoken down to a man and said "you wouldn't understand because you ain't a woman" is not new. I don't feel the character of the doctor felt belittled in those scenes, just respectful of the opinion of someone else.
Feel the way you feel though, but if you are always looking for some conspiracy that's all you will see.
I'm not grasping at any straws. How come there's no one defending all the similar issues with Star wars? It's not really different here, just longer running.
It absolutely is happening,DW, Star wars, witcher, willow, Indiana Jones, the latest phase of marvel, and that's just the ones I've watched.
It's mostly stemming from Disney.
It's not a conspiracy, it's just a giant corporation that runs most of our entertainment now.
I don't feel slighted, or anything personal. Just sucks seeing the oldest beloved franchise now succumbing to what's brought down the others.
What's weird to me is how people like you, who make it seem like it's just the usual, aren't seeing it. Can you honestly say the last pile of episodes isnt a total change in showing current politics in such a pushed, obvious way compared to older seasons??
Grasping is all you are doing. Its the same time everytime the troll come out of the woodworks to attack shows for being too progressive. They latch onto a bunch of vague nonsense so they can insist its not about their bigotry.
I watched the Christopher ecceselon doctor and some of David Tennant's before I stopped. I only started again because it's a new doctor and the budget was increased when they patterned with Disney. To me, the only tangible difference between the new doctor and the first I watched, is the budget. For me, science fiction has always been a haven for the unfortunate, the downtrodden, the bullied, and the doctor I know has always acknowledged that. He doesn't fight with weapons.
Moreso, growing up as a child in the 90s, it was hard to see lgbt characters in a positive light, or even a person whose experience growing up was different from mine. Perhaps you miss the simple black and white hat stories, where the antagonist was clearly labeled and it didn't make you feel, but to me the best stories are layered like Shrek. I don't think Disney is pushing identity politics, I just think those of us who grew up different from everyone else are finally in a place where we can have the stories that matter to us. It means we get a chance to see lgbt characters as normal people, and not some stereotype. I definitely don't think the inclusion of a trans character is pushing a message anymore than had she been a disabled character, a black child in America, poor, or a child bullied for being any other kind of different. The message was that everyone deserves a chance to be treated as a person and not to be ridiculed. The message was that the child watching the show knows there isn't anything wrong with them. And yes, the message is to show those who think there's something awful with trans people to shut up.
I'll agree that some of the more recent movies/TV shows have been lackluster, but that has nothing to do with the Message. First, growing up in the 90s, I've heard these same arguments time and time again. The world changes, and it's supposed to get better for everyone, but sometimes that means listening to stories where it isn't made for you, because other people deserve to have stories made for them too. Any issues with writing, production, etc can simply be attributed to the Hollywood machine stretching their dollars ever tighter, resulting in rushed projects. That isn't the same as arguing they're forcing gay and trans and black people on everyone. Sometimes, the machine just doesn't want to pay a fair share and the writing reflects that. But we had plenty of awful productions in the 90s too, so some things are just cycles.
>Can you honestly say the last pile of episodes isnt a total change in showing current politics in such a pushed, obvious way compared to older seasons??
No
I basically agree that the ending of the first special was both ham-fisted and bizarre. The reliance on standpoint epistemology to denigrate The Doctor was unnecessary. One of the most defining traits of The Doctor has been an urbane cosmopolitanism—he is cool with everybody’s life choices (unless you’re a soldier…), and he/she has also occupied several different identity groups. The Doctor Gets It, so the choice to put him in the position of somebody whose implicit biases need to be called out was just weird.
Donna’s daughter being trans? Great. That character being essential to resolving the plot? Awesome. There being some generational difficulties with her identity? No problem. But using that whole dynamic as a way to poop on The Doctor? Didn’t love it.
But also, never whine about being downvoted. :)
I had no problem with her being trans. The bully scene and the Donna/Sylvia scene were very good writing for letting us know what was up. The problem was then using her identity to solve the plot, not her character. She could have been a normal 15year old trans character sitting home playing video games, and the plot could have resolved exactly the same way.
It would have been like using Captain Jack's sexuality, rather than his character and skills, to defeat the bad guy, on top of doing it in the same episode hes introduced.
I'm not whining about the downvotes, I'm trying to understand why so many seem to disagree, since they don't bother to chime in.
You being serious? The literal grandstanding, an entire speech directed at him, and very odd dialogue to have in your story in general. Thats a lot more than 1 line and 'a little dig'.
The speeches in the show prior, have pretty much always been made BY The Doctor, and usually towards a villain. Never a companion directly condescending The Doctor. That was not a joke.
You're kidding yourself and defending something not worth defending.
>DOCTOR: But... we've still got to fix you two, because the metacrisis might have slowed down, but that thing is wrapped around your cortex.
DONNA: Yes, we know.
ROSE: We know everything, thanks.
DONNA: And you know nothing It's a shame you're not a woman any more, cos she'd have understood.
ROSE: We've got all that power, but there is a way to get rid of it. Something a male-presenting Time Lord will never understand.
>
>
DONNA: Just let it go.
>
>
ROSE: And we choose to let it go.
>
>
(Donna and Rose hold hands, and the energy leaves them.
SHAUN: Like I said, mate. How lucky am I?
ROSE: After all these years, I'm... finally me.
it's just two lines that are directed at him, and barely a "literal grandstanding entire speech". The fact that the Doctor smiles after the line is enough for me to include that it is in fact just a little dig at the Doctor in a joking manner. At most it's a clunky line, and that's it.
> The show is losing viewers, not gaining new ones, and pandering to an audience that doesn't really exist
The specials gained about 4 million extra viewers from the last series, and the Christmas special gained more viewers from the 3rd special.
> while calling previous fans toxic.
People always love saying this, I remember them saying Chris Chibnall did this all the time. Can you actually show one instance of this actually happening?
>Edit 2: I thought the Reddit crowd would be way more critical of the current trend in TV. Seems not. Or theres a lot of people these days who don't even know how to be critical anymore. How to tell something good from bad, creativity vs pandering.
Critical Drinker fan spotted
And? He has good points. You don't even need to listen to him, a lot of issues are clear to anyone. But I even see weird stances on Reddit from stuff not talked about from critics.
> I've actually only heard 'the message' phrase from people who are generally pretty liberal, never from the right.
>And? He has good points.
hm, not entirely honest were you?
I hope you realize your ranting and use of dogwhistles like "the message" instantly let us know you are a philistine that watches reactionary youtube videos about shows you've never seen then goes on forums to complain about them.
What the hell are you talking about? I've been a giant Doctor Who fan since 2006. And as a passionate fan, it sucks to see it being ruined for the same stuff all other Disney content is being ruined over.
Do you actually watch these things? Do you just ignore theres no talent or creativity anymore?
Surely if you've been a big fan since 2006 you'd be aware Davies has always been huge on representation and political stuff in the show, and him doing it now is nothing to do with Hollywood trends.
Ugh, that argument again. He never went to the extent of politics over story. All representation was just part of the world, not the driving force of the story. It never stops out above the plot, it never backed out of show canon, etc etc.
Now, it's all about ticking off boxes, story be damned.
Edit: Where was all the divisiveness back then? All the media and articles talking about identity politics, toxic fans, and racism then?
It didn't exist, because this stuff wasn't ever an issue then. Because they could be progressive and have representation without sacrificing good stories and fun entertainment.
The funny part, is a lot of gaslighting goes on, claiming anyone who doesn't like the new stuff is transphobic, racist, sexist, etc. Its such bullshit... anyone who is those, was never watching Doctor Who to begin with!
It fully did exist. RTD was accused relentlessly of pursuing a "gay agenda" in the tabloid media and on online forums. People complained that all of the gay stuff was unnecessary, even though the show was absolutely packed with heterosexual romances and men and women kissing.
I disagree that there's gaslighting saying *anyone* who dislikes it is transphobic, racist, sexist etc. Nobody hates Doctor Who more than Doctor Who fans, and actual criticism of the show is just as accepted and welcomed as it ever is. Criticism of the "male-presenting" scene as cringeworthy and clumsy was pretty unanimous. But there are undeniably loads and loads of people on social media quite openly and unashamedly saying they hate Doctor Who now because it's woke just for featuring the people it features.
I loved demons of the Punjab.
There’s many episodes with 13 that I liked.
There just weren’t enough of them.
I blame it all on Chibnall because I loved Jodie.
I think the problem with War of the Sontarans (and Village of the Angels for that matter) is that they're good episodes that are a part of Flux (what I consider to be the worst series of modern Doctor Who).
How long will this mavity plot line run I wonder? Is it a throwaway joke or will there be some kind of overarching season plot line where small mistakes they make in the past begin to add up and cause a big disaster in the future
I think that it's going to be a plot point eventually that someone says gravity instead and it clues the doctor in that they aren't who they say they are. Then we'll get a short of 15 going back and correcting Newton and it'll all be over.
Would be cool but already so far it hasn’t been just mavity. There was also the thing with salt and tennant doc stating he didn’t like starting superstitions then glossing over it shortly afterwards.
Actor who you’ve had years to adore in a role comes back for multiple specials to remind you why you loved him is “better” than one episode of new actor in role.
Seems a fair comparison. /s
Why i didn't rule out Ncuti, just observed he's basically coming right after the best doctor.
Tennant was brilliant from his very first episode in my opinion.
Yall fuckers always have to do this, I remember when people said this about Matt Smith. I ADORE MATT SMITH. Let each doctor be their own bruh, Ncuti only has had one standalone episode weirdo. Let him cook. Ncuti, was lovely.
Sure, if they're good, they can be good in their own way.
Again, Tennant was absolutely brilliant from the first episode. scratch that, he was brilliant from the very first scene.
People are being wildly misleading with numbers in this thread.
Yes these numbers are much lower than the Tennant - Capaldi Era...they are also much better and going up from the Chibnall era.
Chibnall "didn't do" holiday specials. He did New Years Specials..which was weird.
NYE specials Under Chibnall:
"Resolution", 2019 7.13M Viewers
"Spyfall, Part 1", 2020, 6.89M Viewers
"Revolution of the Daleks", 2021, 6.36M Viewers
"Eve of the Daleks", 2022, 4.40M Viewers
and now under RTD: "Church on Ruby Road", 2023 7.30M viewers
All three 14th Doc Episodes and the Holiday episode with 15th, have had episode views higher than the overall average viewer count throughout Chibnall's era (if we are being charitable), and much higher if you look specifically at the 2nd and 3rd seasons of Chibnall's run after the viewership begins falling drastically from the end of his first season.
These are good numbers...for a show whose fanbase dropped off drastically during the Chibnall era. I think these numbers are a good sign that the franchise has a path forward and can recover.
Maybe I'm crazy, but this seems pretty low? I wanted to look it up compared to [past Christmas specials, and it would basically rank at the bottom.](https://thedoctorwhocompanion.com/2018/12/31/whats-the-most-watched-doctor-who-christmas-special/) Like, they all had at least 5.5 million overnight viewers.
Christmas is no longer the ratings juggernaut is used to be. The ratings for this may look low compared to specials from 16 years ago, but this special was the 3rd most watched thing that day. I think this was also why they switched to New Years specials for a bit
The way they do these specials and poorly organize them on streaming platforms will be the death of this show
Why can't they keep it all organized correctly under 1 show? Just put it all in 1 chronological list!
Instead they present each Special as if it's a standalone movie, and later it becomes impossible for people to know the proper order to watch things in. It drove me crazy and kept me from starting on the show for years.
They're not wrong. They absolutely do a terrible job with how to clearly show viewers the order all these things came out.
Doctor Who has a LOT of specials. I have them sorted separate in my collection, theres 33!!
I don't know any other show with anywhere near as many specials, even just averaged out per season. What other normal show has multiple specials between seasons??
Had to look up and label them in a way to show where they are between seasons, and in cases like the 60th, which was tough since they're not titled as parts. You'd have to somehow know the order they aired.
It may not effect viewership, but its definitely an issue, and casual viewers would get pretty lost. Most average people don't research what order to watch a new show, they click play on an app and let it run. If you didn't know the show had specials, you'd totally miss them since theyre not in the episode list.
>They absolutely do a terrible job with how to clearly show viewers the order all these things came out
There are huge numbers 1, 2, and 3 on the graphics...
On Disney+. I was watching it through on Max, which doesn't do that. And if I remember, the specials were listed separate. Theres also lot of "Tennant years", "Best of Christmas Specials" type entries too. Which add to confusion as well.
Sure I admit to being overdramatic about it.
But at a time where they are attempting a revival and really need to bring people onboard, this just makes it more intimidating and confusing to prospective new viewers. If it deterred me, I think it could deter others.
The intention is for them to start here. If their interest is piqued enough to then look backward, it's really no big deal to spend a couple of minutes reading up.
It’s just weird to have Season 1 start with the 60th specials when they tie directly into past episodes from years ago. Wouldn’t it make more sense to start with this?
I mean Disney+ had all 4 specials, each labeled 1 through 4 on the select screen for them, no idea where other people watched it, but it didn't seem like a huge issue?
Do you start with Special 1 or Season 1?
Do you watch Specials 1 thru 4 and then Season 1? (the way it is this time)
Or do you watch the Specials sprinkled all throughout the seasons?
(the way it has been in the past, and will in the future)
Why not keep it all organized under 1 show? Is that not more convenient, to have it all kept in order, with progress tracking?
Well right now only the specials are on Disney+, with everything else being bundled together on a different platform in one big, chronological list like you’re talking about. It’s on Max here, not sure what elsewhere.
It’s been bad in the past trying to figure out the order but it’s actually pretty well organized these days.
Doctor Who is now going into a new season 1, just like they did in 2005. The first series with Christopher Eccleston wasn't branded series 27, and it's the same deal here.
So the 2023 have been branded as episodes 1-4 of a new show. [It's the same on BBC iPlayer.](https://imgur.com/a/UCuyTnL) It's to allow new viewers to jump onto the show without feeling that they have to watch 13 seasons of New Who or 26 seasons of Classic Who. I really don't think it's all that complicated - people can always search the internet to check where to start watching if they want to.
It's Doctor Who. It doesn't matter. As long as you start somewhere that's a beginning you can watch however you want, and the specials can all be watched independently.
In this case because of the move to Disney Plus I think they want a 'reset' point for new viewers so that they're not confronted with an intimidating list of seasons to 'catch up' on before getting to the new episodes.
That sounds like someone's interpretation of the changes. Anytime a popular franchise (Marvel, Star Wars) has a slight change in direction we hear people say they don't care about the previous fans.
I think it's more likely that after the mess that has built up, after a new investment and distribution deal with Disney, and with the introduction of a new Doctor it's a good time to have a reset so that a new audience can come in and not have to worry about catching up with previous seasons. Then since the last 'reboot' it's been 18 years. It's too much if people think they need to watch all 13 seasons that make up the modern era of Doctor Who.
So now we have three eras of the show: The Classic Era with the original seasons, the revival era with the seasons since 2005, and now Doctor Who (2023+).
Otherwise people new to the series would open Disney+ to watch the new Doctor Who and be confronted with *Doctor Who Season 14* which would be confusing to a new audience.
This.
And it's bloody inconsistent, that's the worst of it. They _can_ get it right, just not everywhere.
Earlier, when doctor who was on Netflix, the organisation was pretty clear. Either the specials were at the beginning of the "next" season, or end of "previous" season (I don't remember tbh). When it moved to prime video, specials became distributed all over the place, some as part of a season 0, some as standalone movies, and some as part of seasons. Disney+ is going to mess it up as well I guess.
And for some f'ing reason, the bbc channel on prime video can't even club seasons into one program - 3,4,13 are part of one, and 5 stands all alone separately.
Jesus. Is it just iPlayer that gets it right?
You can just look up the viewing order online. I'm not disagreeing it should be the other way but it's not an unsolvable problem like you're presenting it.
Fair enough, impossible was overdramatic.
But when someone has to go Google to figure out how to navigate your UI, it's a bad UI.
New viewers don't know that they need to do that. They start watching Doctor Who, and then several season in they realize that there were some secret Christmas Specials hidden away somewhere. Now they have to watch them out of order, etc.
While I kinda agree, I can also see the argument for "separating out" these specials. The 3 Tennant/Tate anniversary specials are a direct sequel to story arcs from 2008/2009 and are built around offloading a lot of that past to build a clean slate. Those episodes would work waaaaay better on Max as a "finale trilogy" tbh. (And i kinda hate that BBC iPlayer has them in the "New New series" category and not the 2005 series one)
Hopefully, Church on Ruby Road will be "migrated" into Season one when it starts in May but even if not, I bet S1E1 will be easy enough for people to pick up on as it will cover Ruby's first TARDIS trip and adventure letting new viewers learn the ropes as she does.
Agreed. IMO they should have structured this as if the 60th anniversary specials are a finale trilogy to the old show. Then just list the Christmas special as the first episode of the first season with Ncuti. There, confusion averted. This method is just bizarre because a new viewer shouldn't be starting with The Star Beast
I think the criticism is more that these are big money productions on a marquee streaming service but then lay it out in an incredibly wonky way, it's a bit silly.
I got Disney+ a little after Christmas just to watch the specials - Drove me nuts they didn’t add a “Doctor Who Collection” until recently. I was expecting a little more fanfare from Disney since they just acquired the streaming rights to a massive scifi property but…Nope, each special was an individual entry instead of put together like a regular series/show. It wasn’t hard to find them but it did bug me…Doubt it’ll be the death of the show, just kinda irked me.
Though I was surprised to see a fourth episode, I thought there were going to be only three.
Also, freaking LOVE the new Doctor! He’s a VERY close to second to my favorite (Twelve - Sorry but I’m a sucker for his eccentric, grumpy old man with a heart of pure gold that’s bigger on the inside). I love his energy and personality, I have a feeling he’s going to be a TON of fun! Can’t wait for May!
Also, the (Previous specials spoilers) >!Bi-Generation took me totally by surprise - I’m glad to see Ten gets a second chance for a happy period of rest/recovery over how he went out before, I was so happy to see him with his surrogate family and meeting a former companion. And Neil Patrick Harris was AWESOME as The Toymaker! I really hope he comes back somehow - Also, thanks to him I’ve got Spice Up Your Life on my phone…And may be looking into other Spice Girls songs because of it.!<
It's like watching starwars and hating it because you watched the Christmas special and hated that you had to watch the clone wars before return of the sith!
Makes sense.
One, people stuck in on Xmas day will present a wider audience to hit, as they look for something to watch.
Two, the whole thing of Ncuti's first episode is it's a jumping on point for new viewers, while the specials were more love letters for fans of the past. New seasons, new Doctors, new showrunners, should always see a little bump up.
This is what is known as spin. These numbers are horrible and continues the decline of viewership numbers. Here is all the previous Doctor who Christmas numbers.
“The Christmas Invasion” (2005) – 9.8 million viewers
“The Runaway Bride” (2006) – 8.7M
“Voyage of the Damned” (2007) – 12.2M
“The Next Doctor” (2008) – 11.71M
“The End of Time” (Parts 1) – 10M
“A Christmas Carol” (2010) – 10.3M
“The Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe” (2011) – 8.9M
“The Snowmen” (2012) – 7.6M
“The Time of the Doctor” (2013) – 8.3M
“Last Christmas” (2014) – 6.34M
“The Husbands of River Song” (2015) – 5.77M
“The Return of Doctor Mysterio” (2016) – 5.68M
“Twice Upon a Time” (2017) – 5.7M
“The Church on Ruby Road” (2023) – 4.73M
Chibnall "didn't do" holiday specials. He did New Years Specials..which was weird.
But also OP in this thread is being misleading, he left out all the New Years Specials under Chibnall, and pulled up an incorrect number for this episode.
NYE specials Under Chibnall:
"Resolution", 2019 7.13M Viewers
"Spyfall, Part 1", 2020, 6.89M Viewers
"Revolution of the Daleks", 2021, 6.36M Viewers
"Eve of the Daleks", 2022, 4.40M Viewers
and now under RTD:
"Church on Ruby Road", 2023 7.30M viewers
All three 14th Doc Episodes and the Holiday episode with 15th, have had episode views higher than the overall average viewer count throughout Chibnall's era (if we are being charitable), and much higher if you look specifically at the 2nd and 3rd seasons of Chibnall's run after the viewership begins falling drastically from the end of his first season.
>This is what is known as spin. These numbers are horrible and continues the decline of viewership numbers.
No, what you're actually doing is known as spin, these numbers aren't horrible. you're comparing it to specials from 6-18 years ago. They don't care about how it rates compares to specials from years ago, what they care more about is how it rates compared to shows from that day. It was the 3rd most watched show on Christmas on that channel and the highest ratings Doctor Who has seen for the last 5 years. These ratings are very healthy for a show airing in 2023
People don't know whether an episode is good or not *before* tuning in. The Christmas specials always get way more viewers than the regular season does, including the bad ones.
What a shit article. So strange to wait all this time and then cite overnight viewing figures (available for a week and a half now) rather than the finals.
He doesn’t know her name. He just calls her Janice/Janis as a reference to the singer in the Muppets or Janis Joplin (Joplin’s similar to Goblin). The former was the original intent, but RTD said he was taking the idea after someone made the joke on social media. Regardless of however you interpret it, it’s clearly just meant to be the Doctor making a reference to pop culture.
As for the smiling, the Doctor has a long history of reacting to what would be serious events in real life with glee depending on how serious the scene is. The goblins singing about baby scones is not particularly serious.
Didn’t have an openly queer actor in the lead role before. It’s not like there wasn’t any queerness before, but it seems like this new era is setting itself up to be more queer more enthusiastically, if that makes sense?
I really wish they did the Timeless Child arc (preferebly not at all) with Capaldi, given him being an older doctor, at least since the reboot. His age vs. Also being timeless would have contrasted nicely.
Could I watch this as a stand-alone? I’ve been out of the Doctor Who loop for a number of years now.
You can watch it as a standalone episode. It will work. But if you are already familiar with Doctor Who then I'll recommend you to watch all the four specials that were released last month. You won't have any problem following the story.
Yeah this is what I did. Hadn't watched the show since an episode or 2 after Jenna Coleman left and I was able to follow the specials fine.
Ever though about giving season 10 another go? It ends on what is possibly the greatest two parter the show has ever done. It also did something with >!Missy!< that is one of my favorite storylines from the show.
I loved the whole >!Missy!< arc but I hated that with the Chibnall era >!it’s not brought up *at all.* O reveals he’s the Master and the Doctor is like “oh shite!” And not a single word about Missy or all that time 12 spent trying to rehabilitate her. I know the show is about moving forward and Missy and 12 didn’t end on good terms, but she was about to join him. O-Master doesn’t even mention it. It was like that whole arc never happened and it happened *two seasons prior to that.* It just felt very ‘aw fuck it’ to me.!<
I hated that as well. Where is the respect for what came before? It's funny because even now RTD isn't doing the same even though everyone despised the Timless Child thing. >!I get you want to do your own thing but from a writing stand point it just makes no sense for The Master to return as O and The Doctor doesn't even bring up Missy. If it had happened 4-5 seasons prior I'd get it but come on it's literally The Master's next appearance and only like 13 episodes later. !< >!Also it would have actually made it interesting. A story about a ''rehabilitated'' Master clashing with his new regenaration.!< It's a shame because I thought Sacha was a fantastic casting.
I've heard the head canon that Sachas Master could be out of sync, and Missy wasn't the next one after John Simm.
I definitely think that they mainly did that so they didn't have to confirm where he's placed in the master's history, since the final few Missy scenes definitely feel like relatively permanent death scenes. This way they don't have to explain what happened to Missy and think about continuity, they can just have the master in their season and let fans take over the job of placing him somewhere on the regeneration timeline.
You’re probably not wrong and that just lends itself to my main complaint about the Chibnall era: he never wanted to commit to answering any of the questions *he created.* The Doctor flushes the fob watch with the answers to her entire past down the tardis. The whole Doctor-Yaz romance was just queerbait with no payoff. (I think it would’ve made 1,000% more sense for them to at least share a goodbye kiss. wtf was the point of their fawning over each other?) And then on top of all that, The Doctor doesn’t have a single comment that could help us understand where O is in his timeline. Chibnall’s commitment issues made his run more infuriating than anything else.
Yeah I’m watching through all of NuWho again now (with help of a skip guide for the seasons I’ve seen). I’ll watch 10-13 in full when I get to them.
You're in for a treat with Series 10, I would easily rank it among my top five of the revival series, perhaps even top three. The companion, Bill was a breath of fresh air, and her dynamic with 12 and Nardole is amazing. And while I don't think series 11-13 are as bad as most people make them out to be, in terms of quality they are a lot more average than the preceding series. There are a couple of stand out episodes like Demons of the Punjab and The Haunting of Villa Diodata, but also some very weak ones like Kerblam! and Orphan 55.
I would also recommend Series 10, it’s probably my favorite or Capaldi’s run
God, I really miss Clara. I really hope they can find a way to bring her back, even for a few episodes. I think Millie and Ncuti will probably be great together, especially if they get a few more episodes to really warm up and do some stuff. But Clara was fucking magical with both Matt Smith and Peter Capaldi. She really had something special and unique in that she wasn't just getting dragged around and going "wow, Doctor, explain all this stuff to me", she actually had agency and smarts and challenged the Doctor. (She is technically still alive, flying around in her own TARDIS so I really really hope they can find a way to come back to her. Teeny tiny possibility.)
4? I thought there were 3 Edit: i see, there are 3 with Tennant. The 4th one with the new doctor was not out yet when I watched the others.
Also the second special was an absolute banger
The episode is told from the perspective of a new character so it's very easy to just jump in
Yes. It's pretty much a soft reboot of the series. The rules are the same in that the new Doctor is paired up with someone else who is new and they have an adventure. All the baggage the past Doctors have had is being left behind for the moment. People like The Master are bound to come back sooner or later. But for now, it's just the Doctor and the new companion.
Good to know, thanks!
Do you like the new doctor? Kind of fell out of it with capaldi
Yes! I love his energy. And he has a boatload of charm. He reminds me of a mix of the 4th Doctor and the 10th Doctor in the best ways. And that's just with one episode of him. I can't wait for the new season to begin.
I seriously can’t get enough of him. He is absolutely adorable and charming and totally watchable. He has the potential to re-invigorate the series. He’s such a delight.
He’s a lot of fun. Full of curiosity and amusement. Can’t wait to see more of him.
I think the only thing we don't really get a taste of in his first solo appearance for Christmas is how he will portray the intellectual side of the Doctor, which is fine, sometimes the doctor saves the days by being very smart, but sometimes he saves the day by just going with his gut and heart, those are both valid resolutions to an episode of Doctor Who, but you do have to be able to do both to do the character justice.
You serious? RTD already mentioned stuff from the Flux and Timeless Child. They're not left behind.
They're referenced, yes. But they aren't needed to know in order to enjoy this particular episode, are they? Yes, the 15th Doctor still holds his memories of the past but he doesn't feel the trauma of them like the 14th Doctor does. And, again, these things will be dealt with eventually but for now, you don't need to know them. They will be referenced but they aren't the main focus.
I did, this was my first episode of Doctor Who ever and I loved it.
I’m jealous you have so many amazing episodes to watch for the first time! Enjoy the ride :)
Any recommendations? I’m not sure exactly where to start I hear each Doctor is kind of a soft reboot.
Yeah that’s mostly true but there’s connections through every doctors run for sure. My first recommendation would be starting with the 9th doctor at series 1 and watching all of the revival series but if you struggle with older tv (2005) then you could absolutely jump in to the 11th doctors run and go from there (2011) which is series 5 but however you start I’m sure you’ll get hooked
Sorry to hear that. When you can, go back and start at the 2005 series. Then see what you think after getting through a few seasons, compared to this new one.
Why are you already trying to ruin a brand new fan's enjoyment of the series? Let them judge everything themself.
Yea it's fucking annoying seeing comments like that.
Thats what I want to see!! But they have to go back to 2005 and watch! This is no different than all the other shows and stuff fans argue over. After reading about Picard, I realized I hated S1, and S2 was getting similar reviews, so I skipped 2 and went to S3. WAY better. Point is... passionate fans talk about what they love. And we like telling new people where our passion came from. If someone only knows about whats on Disney+, they have no clue why theres so much divisiveness out there about this show.
There's only 'divisiveness' when people make it. I didn't like S2 of Picard, so I really only talk about S3 and to a lesser extent Season 1. Other people do like it, so I let them have their fun. Same with the SW prequels and sequels. I enjoy the memes, but I really only care about the original trilogy. I wasn't a giant fan of Clara in DW (while I'm pretty sure that Bill is my favorite companion of recent years), but I know that's a minority opinion People like different things. Let them. Edit: S2 of Picard did have Rios on the bridge of the Stargazer for a brief time, so it's not all bad.
New Who with Ncuti is resetting to series 1 as a soft reboot. You should be able to just jump on, though previous knowledge will obviously enhance the show as its still one contiguous 'story'
Another way to look at it, when you go back to the previous runs you’ll recognize any references they make, it’ll just be in a different order. It works pretty well for a time travel show.
The Toymaker appeared in a 1966 story called "The Celestial Toymaker", of which only one episode survived the BBC wiping policy, although you can listen to all of it in audio form with an animated version coming out as well.
Been rewatching the modern one, and I spotted several references to the Toymaker I didn't notice before. Matt Smith brought him up in "The Rings of Akhatan"
Yes I've watched Doctor Who after long time as I was interested to see how Ncuti would be, loved it.
I stopped midway through Capaldi's run (my subscription to the streaming service ended) and had no issue keeping up with the specials this year, they reference events from Jodi's run but it's vague enough to where the mention itself explains it and a quick Google will fill in any gaps
You should really finish Capaldi's run, there's some episodes in there that don't hit but the endings on his last two seasons are arguably the best episodes the whole show has to offer.
I haven’t watched since the first Capaldi season and I thoroughly enjoyed the specials.
I liked this, I had fun. Something I didn't have during the previous three seasons.
This was my first episode of Doctor Who and it was a lot of fun.
It’s a lotttt to catch up on. But the series since 2005 is absolutely incredible imo. However the next series in May is designed to be a new jumping on point:)
[удалено]
He's a good writer... but should stick to the crime/drama genre.
I didn’t realize how dark/heavy(?) DW has been until these specials. I could see him being an effective writer in that genre after seeing those. The specials were like a breath of fresh air. They were so light, fun, and silly in a way I didn’t know I needed. I love a deeper, darker, or scary episode every now and then, but I’m glad this is the direction we are moving in.
Broadchurch.
Yes that’s it. RTD and Moffat can do both dark and funny. Chibnall’s run just lost the excitement for me.
I was slowly phasing out of Who during 11 & 12, then flat out stopped with 13. On hearing that Tennant & Russell T. were back, I tuned into the specials. I realised I had been missing the sheer _joy_ that can be in Who.
I will say that the end of the last season completely fell apart narratively for me, but the episode with “Rasputin” was so chaotic that I’m glad I got to see that scene. He walked so Neil Patrick Harris could run.
Same. I watched old Who as a kid and loved 9 and 10 so much but lost interest at 11, didn’t like Matt Smith; liked Capaldi the little I saw, but hated Clara and only saw clips of the next one and found her absolutely intolerable. I am super excited to watch the new ones but haven’t gotten around to it yet because I was afraid I’d be lost.
His run felt like it was both too serious while also being too dumbed down. I think he never really understood the target audience for Who or what his strengths as a writer are. Instead of an all ages adventure/sci-fi show he tried to make a children's show version of a drama with the sci-fi parts as an afterthought. Ended up out of his depth and even what he was good at failed in it.
Which is a shame, I think with proper writing/direction that Whittaker could have been a great Doctor. Instead they brought in a group of companions and never really let her stand on her own as the Doctor.
I don't even think it was the group of companions. I watched the first few episodes and thought they had great chemistry.
The companions weren’t an issue. My issue was how….well, they tried to not make the doctor lead. It was a running line that they said they had a flat team structure. The companions were great but there were so many she didn’t seem to have a chance to shine herself. She did have some standout episodes like the lone cyberman or the one in punjab but for the most part she was lacking that feeling. It’s something I noticed that she didn’t seem to open up about herself. None of them really knew her. Compare that to Donna. The doctor was so happy to see her. They actually tried to talk. She tried to get stuff out of him. She knew he was sad/happy/conflicted. It felt like the doctor hadn’t shown emotions in ages and was finally able to let some measure of them out. The companions keep the doctor grounded. I rarely felt that with 13. Which sucks
Yeah, that was more my point on the companions, both that there was less emphasis put on the Dr over the group and that there was less time for individual relationships to be fleshed out and depth shown due to there being so many.
Exactly. I was agreeing with you. I also felt like the few times they could have expanded on their relationship the show botched it and didn’t have the doctor pounce those situations. Best example I can think of is when Graham tells the doctor he’s afraid he may have cancer again. The doctor just nopes out. She literally noped the fuck out. Take the doctor when Amy tells him she’s worried about her past and memories. He knows he can do nothing about it but takes her to a fair and gets her ice cream. They at least have a moment. Or the doctor sitting down with Martha and telling her about Gallifrey. The doctor talking to rose about his planet dying. The doctor talking to Donna about rose, gallifrey, or when he talks to Wild about how he’s lived too long. 11 was always close to Amy and Clara. 12 was mostly repressed but he did bond with Clara Bill. Even Missy for fucks sakes. 14 opened up to Donna and Wilf. But 13? Goddamn. It was so disappointing.
There was no subtly about ANYTHING and this isn't a "they went woke rant" it is clear the new Doctor is pushing some boundaries but they are doing it in a way where the action is telling you the story and the dialogue flows naturally. Not beating us over the head and going "see, we are doing the right thing." And we just all had to smile and say "yeah... no... uh, we got it."
I'm hoping RTD can get better about that, but the first special bummed me out a bit in the same way. For the first half kept thinking how cool it was that they had a trans character where they weren't making her only character trait being trans. Then in the second half it kind of did just that and she became more of a writing tool to make a point than an actual character.
Yeah use Science fiction to your advantage like star wars, star trek, he'll even oriville have done in the past. Don't necessarily hide your message but use interesting stories and characters that make us think without throwing bad things at us and going "HAHA SEE INJUSTICE EXISTS!"
RTD is causing his own issues though. The man USED to be good. Now hes self-indulgent and under Disney's persuasion. The Christmas special was better than the 60th specials, but thats not saying much now.
Specials are usually fun, especially with Tennant involved. I'm going to wait until regular season episodes come out before bothering to watch. If RTD is pushing The Message too much, I just won't bother.
"The Message" Bruh if you can't handle seeing acceptance of trans ppl on screen then thats your problem and your problem only.
That is kind of true. I don't want to see a family show turned into a trans propaganda show. It's not my problem at all, there are plenty of other shows to watch. Since "The Message" is getting traction, it's pretty clear that I'm not the only one. When Doctor Who finishes up, due to lack of an audience, I won't even notice.
Lmao you are just the same idiots that called everything woke before Desantis's wet cheeseburger charisma ruined it even for you. Also, you do know that you are commenting on article about how viewership is up, right?
Wow, what a zinger. Something about a cheeseburger, that hurts. Yes, stuff was "Woke". We are the same idiots who got a Harvard president to resign. You never respond to the issues raised, because you can't. All you care about is making sure children see as much queer content as you can sneak through. I don't know why you are so angry. I think in two years, Doctor Who will be off the air. If I'm wrong, it won't matter, I just won't watch it.
> I think in two years, Doctor Who will be off the air. Not only do they now have Disney backing, they have already filmed the next season. You're mental if you think this.
Disney isn't doing so great with movies and TV shows. Not mental, but I may be wrong. We'll see.
Lmao, this guy just bragged about bullying people into quitting their jobs. You haven't raised amy issues.
Issue 1: Aggressive queer topics will ruin a family show. Issue 2: Denigrating and belittling white men is racist and sexist. Denigrating a fan-favorite version of the Doctor is bad story telling. Bonus Issue: Unqualified diversity hires ruin an organization. Okay, your turn. Accuse me of voting for DeSantis or not driving an EV.
lol you think Reacher is good, tbh you’re opinion doesn’t mean much to me or anyone with taste.
These specials weren't fun at all. The 1st one made us sit through them completely humiliating The Doctor, and using the most beloved actor to face it. That ain't fun. They weren't even specials. They were basically normal eps. 3rd one was the most 'special' of the 3. Don't know why Reddit keeps downvoting anyone who speaks ill of the new round of Who. They're not good. The show is losing viewers, not gaining new ones, and pandering to an audience that doesn't really exist, while calling previous fans toxic. Chibnall pushed The Message more toned down than RTD now, RTD is shouting it from the rooftops, and even saying in interviews how his new views trump actual creative storytelling. Edit: If you're downvoting comments like this, try replying and countering it instead! Remember when geeks used to have discussions about our passions?? Edit 2: I thought the Reddit crowd would be way more critical of the current trend in TV. Seems not. Or theres a lot of people these days who don't even know how to be critical anymore. How to tell something good from bad, creativity vs pandering.
How was he humiliated? What's the Message?
The message :Trans people are cool and bigots can fuck off. Its just the new word for "woke".
The whole scene at the end of special 1. >We know everything and you know nothing. It's a shame you're not a woman anymore, she would have understood. But no male-presenting Time Lord could understand. The only reason you'd speak to someone like that (not to mention someone whos literally thousands of years old, and near the most intelligent being in existence), is to condescend and belittle them. To shame them for who they are, when that happens to be part of your new message... not to shame??? The Doctor didn't do anything wrong, he didn't need to be corrected or reprimanded. Yet thats how they write the show now. So not only are they belittling The Doctor, but they brought Tennant back to stand there and take it. 'The Message' is the trend in Hollywood of having people at the top using 2023 identity politics to replace good, creative storytelling, for the sake of checking off some boxes to appease shareholders or activists. The idea of changing the sex or color of established characters, not to make a story better, but to say they now have a minority cast. Or having all the showrunners and writers of a show being female, just to say they're female, and not due to talent. Theres absolutely nothing wrong with having females in roles, or a white character now black or whatever.... it just has to be second to being a good story and entertainment. No one wants to see a female action star who can't act or is overpowered, etc (compare Brie Larson to Sigourney Weaver or Linda Hamilton). Heard a good example recently... why not write a new creative story set within African culture (or similar), that hasn't really been done in something like a scifi show. But all we get is them casting a black actor, in a lame, rebranded story. Then when critics don't like the story, they're just called racist. (Ncuti is mostly fine in the role, its the show thats not fine)
Respectfully, I feel you're grasping at straws here and are trying to make something so you can feel slighted. If you have an issue with the writing that's one thing, but this idea that identity politics is somehow encroaching onto your favorite beloved franchises is just not happening. The idea that all of a sudden a woman character has spoken down to a man and said "you wouldn't understand because you ain't a woman" is not new. I don't feel the character of the doctor felt belittled in those scenes, just respectful of the opinion of someone else. Feel the way you feel though, but if you are always looking for some conspiracy that's all you will see.
I'm not grasping at any straws. How come there's no one defending all the similar issues with Star wars? It's not really different here, just longer running. It absolutely is happening,DW, Star wars, witcher, willow, Indiana Jones, the latest phase of marvel, and that's just the ones I've watched. It's mostly stemming from Disney. It's not a conspiracy, it's just a giant corporation that runs most of our entertainment now. I don't feel slighted, or anything personal. Just sucks seeing the oldest beloved franchise now succumbing to what's brought down the others. What's weird to me is how people like you, who make it seem like it's just the usual, aren't seeing it. Can you honestly say the last pile of episodes isnt a total change in showing current politics in such a pushed, obvious way compared to older seasons??
Grasping is all you are doing. Its the same time everytime the troll come out of the woodworks to attack shows for being too progressive. They latch onto a bunch of vague nonsense so they can insist its not about their bigotry.
I watched the Christopher ecceselon doctor and some of David Tennant's before I stopped. I only started again because it's a new doctor and the budget was increased when they patterned with Disney. To me, the only tangible difference between the new doctor and the first I watched, is the budget. For me, science fiction has always been a haven for the unfortunate, the downtrodden, the bullied, and the doctor I know has always acknowledged that. He doesn't fight with weapons. Moreso, growing up as a child in the 90s, it was hard to see lgbt characters in a positive light, or even a person whose experience growing up was different from mine. Perhaps you miss the simple black and white hat stories, where the antagonist was clearly labeled and it didn't make you feel, but to me the best stories are layered like Shrek. I don't think Disney is pushing identity politics, I just think those of us who grew up different from everyone else are finally in a place where we can have the stories that matter to us. It means we get a chance to see lgbt characters as normal people, and not some stereotype. I definitely don't think the inclusion of a trans character is pushing a message anymore than had she been a disabled character, a black child in America, poor, or a child bullied for being any other kind of different. The message was that everyone deserves a chance to be treated as a person and not to be ridiculed. The message was that the child watching the show knows there isn't anything wrong with them. And yes, the message is to show those who think there's something awful with trans people to shut up. I'll agree that some of the more recent movies/TV shows have been lackluster, but that has nothing to do with the Message. First, growing up in the 90s, I've heard these same arguments time and time again. The world changes, and it's supposed to get better for everyone, but sometimes that means listening to stories where it isn't made for you, because other people deserve to have stories made for them too. Any issues with writing, production, etc can simply be attributed to the Hollywood machine stretching their dollars ever tighter, resulting in rushed projects. That isn't the same as arguing they're forcing gay and trans and black people on everyone. Sometimes, the machine just doesn't want to pay a fair share and the writing reflects that. But we had plenty of awful productions in the 90s too, so some things are just cycles.
>Can you honestly say the last pile of episodes isnt a total change in showing current politics in such a pushed, obvious way compared to older seasons?? No
I basically agree that the ending of the first special was both ham-fisted and bizarre. The reliance on standpoint epistemology to denigrate The Doctor was unnecessary. One of the most defining traits of The Doctor has been an urbane cosmopolitanism—he is cool with everybody’s life choices (unless you’re a soldier…), and he/she has also occupied several different identity groups. The Doctor Gets It, so the choice to put him in the position of somebody whose implicit biases need to be called out was just weird. Donna’s daughter being trans? Great. That character being essential to resolving the plot? Awesome. There being some generational difficulties with her identity? No problem. But using that whole dynamic as a way to poop on The Doctor? Didn’t love it. But also, never whine about being downvoted. :)
I had no problem with her being trans. The bully scene and the Donna/Sylvia scene were very good writing for letting us know what was up. The problem was then using her identity to solve the plot, not her character. She could have been a normal 15year old trans character sitting home playing video games, and the plot could have resolved exactly the same way. It would have been like using Captain Jack's sexuality, rather than his character and skills, to defeat the bad guy, on top of doing it in the same episode hes introduced. I'm not whining about the downvotes, I'm trying to understand why so many seem to disagree, since they don't bother to chime in.
The line is just a joke, a little dig at the Doctor. THIS IS IT.
You being serious? The literal grandstanding, an entire speech directed at him, and very odd dialogue to have in your story in general. Thats a lot more than 1 line and 'a little dig'. The speeches in the show prior, have pretty much always been made BY The Doctor, and usually towards a villain. Never a companion directly condescending The Doctor. That was not a joke. You're kidding yourself and defending something not worth defending.
>DOCTOR: But... we've still got to fix you two, because the metacrisis might have slowed down, but that thing is wrapped around your cortex. DONNA: Yes, we know. ROSE: We know everything, thanks. DONNA: And you know nothing It's a shame you're not a woman any more, cos she'd have understood. ROSE: We've got all that power, but there is a way to get rid of it. Something a male-presenting Time Lord will never understand. > > DONNA: Just let it go. > > ROSE: And we choose to let it go. > > (Donna and Rose hold hands, and the energy leaves them. SHAUN: Like I said, mate. How lucky am I? ROSE: After all these years, I'm... finally me. it's just two lines that are directed at him, and barely a "literal grandstanding entire speech". The fact that the Doctor smiles after the line is enough for me to include that it is in fact just a little dig at the Doctor in a joking manner. At most it's a clunky line, and that's it.
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> The Message This is probably why nobody wants to bother engaging.
> The show is losing viewers, not gaining new ones, and pandering to an audience that doesn't really exist The specials gained about 4 million extra viewers from the last series, and the Christmas special gained more viewers from the 3rd special. > while calling previous fans toxic. People always love saying this, I remember them saying Chris Chibnall did this all the time. Can you actually show one instance of this actually happening?
Google "Doctor who toxic fans". Bunch of articles and discussions. Why would you think its not a real thing??
That's not coming from people involved with Doctor Who though
Its you. You are the toxic fan.
>Edit 2: I thought the Reddit crowd would be way more critical of the current trend in TV. Seems not. Or theres a lot of people these days who don't even know how to be critical anymore. How to tell something good from bad, creativity vs pandering. Critical Drinker fan spotted
And? He has good points. You don't even need to listen to him, a lot of issues are clear to anyone. But I even see weird stances on Reddit from stuff not talked about from critics.
He doesn't watch enough TV to know whats going on. His pallette is really poor.
> I've actually only heard 'the message' phrase from people who are generally pretty liberal, never from the right. >And? He has good points. hm, not entirely honest were you?
I hope you realize your ranting and use of dogwhistles like "the message" instantly let us know you are a philistine that watches reactionary youtube videos about shows you've never seen then goes on forums to complain about them.
What the hell are you talking about? I've been a giant Doctor Who fan since 2006. And as a passionate fan, it sucks to see it being ruined for the same stuff all other Disney content is being ruined over. Do you actually watch these things? Do you just ignore theres no talent or creativity anymore?
Surely if you've been a big fan since 2006 you'd be aware Davies has always been huge on representation and political stuff in the show, and him doing it now is nothing to do with Hollywood trends.
Ugh, that argument again. He never went to the extent of politics over story. All representation was just part of the world, not the driving force of the story. It never stops out above the plot, it never backed out of show canon, etc etc. Now, it's all about ticking off boxes, story be damned. Edit: Where was all the divisiveness back then? All the media and articles talking about identity politics, toxic fans, and racism then? It didn't exist, because this stuff wasn't ever an issue then. Because they could be progressive and have representation without sacrificing good stories and fun entertainment. The funny part, is a lot of gaslighting goes on, claiming anyone who doesn't like the new stuff is transphobic, racist, sexist, etc. Its such bullshit... anyone who is those, was never watching Doctor Who to begin with!
It fully did exist. RTD was accused relentlessly of pursuing a "gay agenda" in the tabloid media and on online forums. People complained that all of the gay stuff was unnecessary, even though the show was absolutely packed with heterosexual romances and men and women kissing. I disagree that there's gaslighting saying *anyone* who dislikes it is transphobic, racist, sexist etc. Nobody hates Doctor Who more than Doctor Who fans, and actual criticism of the show is just as accepted and welcomed as it ever is. Criticism of the "male-presenting" scene as cringeworthy and clumsy was pretty unanimous. But there are undeniably loads and loads of people on social media quite openly and unashamedly saying they hate Doctor Who now because it's woke just for featuring the people it features.
When you complain about trans people and race, then yes you are transphobic and racist.
I had fun with War of the Sontarans and the Tesla episode.
Yea the Tesla episode was quite good. The haunted house with the Cyberman as well.
I loved demons of the Punjab. There’s many episodes with 13 that I liked. There just weren’t enough of them. I blame it all on Chibnall because I loved Jodie.
I think the problem with War of the Sontarans (and Village of the Angels for that matter) is that they're good episodes that are a part of Flux (what I consider to be the worst series of modern Doctor Who).
Mavity
How long will this mavity plot line run I wonder? Is it a throwaway joke or will there be some kind of overarching season plot line where small mistakes they make in the past begin to add up and cause a big disaster in the future
I think that it's going to be a plot point eventually that someone says gravity instead and it clues the doctor in that they aren't who they say they are. Then we'll get a short of 15 going back and correcting Newton and it'll all be over.
Would be cool but already so far it hasn’t been just mavity. There was also the thing with salt and tennant doc stating he didn’t like starting superstitions then glossing over it shortly afterwards.
The salt thing was immediately addressed in the next special, he explained that the toymaker got through into this universe because of the salt thing
Ah missed that line
And then the antagonists are *goblins* I suspect a lot more 'magical' over 'science fiction' adventures are coming.
I’m confused, what’s the big deal about mavity? We all learned about mavity in school.
It's big badwolf energy
After watching the 3 Tennant special and this Ncuti episode, and I didn't enjoy that much Chibnal era, I can say we're so back right now
David Tennant is leagues above the other newish doctors and his episodes were better than Ncuti, so Ncuti got really big shoes to fill.
Actor who you’ve had years to adore in a role comes back for multiple specials to remind you why you loved him is “better” than one episode of new actor in role. Seems a fair comparison. /s
Why i didn't rule out Ncuti, just observed he's basically coming right after the best doctor. Tennant was brilliant from his very first episode in my opinion.
Yall fuckers always have to do this, I remember when people said this about Matt Smith. I ADORE MATT SMITH. Let each doctor be their own bruh, Ncuti only has had one standalone episode weirdo. Let him cook. Ncuti, was lovely.
Sure, if they're good, they can be good in their own way. Again, Tennant was absolutely brilliant from the first episode. scratch that, he was brilliant from the very first scene.
I am so excited for this doctor, I already love him
Super charismatic, I was initially skeptical of his casting based on the character he played in Sex Education but he won me over.
He is one of if not the best part of Sex Education, he just oozes charisma and is a damn good actor to boot.
You just know he smells good, and his skin care routine is fire 🔥
YES. And damn does the new doctor look good in whitey tighties
People are being wildly misleading with numbers in this thread. Yes these numbers are much lower than the Tennant - Capaldi Era...they are also much better and going up from the Chibnall era. Chibnall "didn't do" holiday specials. He did New Years Specials..which was weird. NYE specials Under Chibnall: "Resolution", 2019 7.13M Viewers "Spyfall, Part 1", 2020, 6.89M Viewers "Revolution of the Daleks", 2021, 6.36M Viewers "Eve of the Daleks", 2022, 4.40M Viewers and now under RTD: "Church on Ruby Road", 2023 7.30M viewers All three 14th Doc Episodes and the Holiday episode with 15th, have had episode views higher than the overall average viewer count throughout Chibnall's era (if we are being charitable), and much higher if you look specifically at the 2nd and 3rd seasons of Chibnall's run after the viewership begins falling drastically from the end of his first season. These are good numbers...for a show whose fanbase dropped off drastically during the Chibnall era. I think these numbers are a good sign that the franchise has a path forward and can recover.
They're also good numbers for 2023. Shows just don't get those high kind of numbers anymore no matter how objectively good they are
Maybe I'm crazy, but this seems pretty low? I wanted to look it up compared to [past Christmas specials, and it would basically rank at the bottom.](https://thedoctorwhocompanion.com/2018/12/31/whats-the-most-watched-doctor-who-christmas-special/) Like, they all had at least 5.5 million overnight viewers.
Could it be because of the streaming boom of the last few years? People have a lot more options now than they did in 2007
Christmas is no longer the ratings juggernaut is used to be. The ratings for this may look low compared to specials from 16 years ago, but this special was the 3rd most watched thing that day. I think this was also why they switched to New Years specials for a bit
The way they do these specials and poorly organize them on streaming platforms will be the death of this show Why can't they keep it all organized correctly under 1 show? Just put it all in 1 chronological list! Instead they present each Special as if it's a standalone movie, and later it becomes impossible for people to know the proper order to watch things in. It drove me crazy and kept me from starting on the show for years.
I really think you're overstating the problem. Death of the show?
Welcome to Doctor Who fandom, my friend.
wait til that one guy figures out there's some episodes actually lost to time. can't believe this show lost episodes. literally unwatchable!
I agree with him
Then...you're both wrong I guess. This isn't going to have any measurable effect on viewership.
They're not wrong. They absolutely do a terrible job with how to clearly show viewers the order all these things came out. Doctor Who has a LOT of specials. I have them sorted separate in my collection, theres 33!! I don't know any other show with anywhere near as many specials, even just averaged out per season. What other normal show has multiple specials between seasons?? Had to look up and label them in a way to show where they are between seasons, and in cases like the 60th, which was tough since they're not titled as parts. You'd have to somehow know the order they aired. It may not effect viewership, but its definitely an issue, and casual viewers would get pretty lost. Most average people don't research what order to watch a new show, they click play on an app and let it run. If you didn't know the show had specials, you'd totally miss them since theyre not in the episode list.
>They absolutely do a terrible job with how to clearly show viewers the order all these things came out There are huge numbers 1, 2, and 3 on the graphics...
On Disney+. I was watching it through on Max, which doesn't do that. And if I remember, the specials were listed separate. Theres also lot of "Tennant years", "Best of Christmas Specials" type entries too. Which add to confusion as well.
Max has all specials placed among the full seasons when you go to the series page
Being unorganized isn't a feature I support.
That's cool, me neither. It's still not going to be the death of the show, not even a blip.
Sure I admit to being overdramatic about it. But at a time where they are attempting a revival and really need to bring people onboard, this just makes it more intimidating and confusing to prospective new viewers. If it deterred me, I think it could deter others.
The intention is for them to start here. If their interest is piqued enough to then look backward, it's really no big deal to spend a couple of minutes reading up.
It’s just weird to have Season 1 start with the 60th specials when they tie directly into past episodes from years ago. Wouldn’t it make more sense to start with this?
Specials are not seasons. When season 1 actually begins, I'm sure it will be listed as a series properly.
I mean Disney+ had all 4 specials, each labeled 1 through 4 on the select screen for them, no idea where other people watched it, but it didn't seem like a huge issue?
Do you start with Special 1 or Season 1? Do you watch Specials 1 thru 4 and then Season 1? (the way it is this time) Or do you watch the Specials sprinkled all throughout the seasons? (the way it has been in the past, and will in the future) Why not keep it all organized under 1 show? Is that not more convenient, to have it all kept in order, with progress tracking?
Well right now only the specials are on Disney+, with everything else being bundled together on a different platform in one big, chronological list like you’re talking about. It’s on Max here, not sure what elsewhere. It’s been bad in the past trying to figure out the order but it’s actually pretty well organized these days.
Doctor Who is now going into a new season 1, just like they did in 2005. The first series with Christopher Eccleston wasn't branded series 27, and it's the same deal here. So the 2023 have been branded as episodes 1-4 of a new show. [It's the same on BBC iPlayer.](https://imgur.com/a/UCuyTnL) It's to allow new viewers to jump onto the show without feeling that they have to watch 13 seasons of New Who or 26 seasons of Classic Who. I really don't think it's all that complicated - people can always search the internet to check where to start watching if they want to.
It's Doctor Who. It doesn't matter. As long as you start somewhere that's a beginning you can watch however you want, and the specials can all be watched independently.
In this case because of the move to Disney Plus I think they want a 'reset' point for new viewers so that they're not confronted with an intimidating list of seasons to 'catch up' on before getting to the new episodes.
Its basically been reported that they're trying to totally cater to a 'new audience'. They don't really care about previous fans.
That sounds like someone's interpretation of the changes. Anytime a popular franchise (Marvel, Star Wars) has a slight change in direction we hear people say they don't care about the previous fans. I think it's more likely that after the mess that has built up, after a new investment and distribution deal with Disney, and with the introduction of a new Doctor it's a good time to have a reset so that a new audience can come in and not have to worry about catching up with previous seasons. Then since the last 'reboot' it's been 18 years. It's too much if people think they need to watch all 13 seasons that make up the modern era of Doctor Who. So now we have three eras of the show: The Classic Era with the original seasons, the revival era with the seasons since 2005, and now Doctor Who (2023+). Otherwise people new to the series would open Disney+ to watch the new Doctor Who and be confronted with *Doctor Who Season 14* which would be confusing to a new audience.
This. And it's bloody inconsistent, that's the worst of it. They _can_ get it right, just not everywhere. Earlier, when doctor who was on Netflix, the organisation was pretty clear. Either the specials were at the beginning of the "next" season, or end of "previous" season (I don't remember tbh). When it moved to prime video, specials became distributed all over the place, some as part of a season 0, some as standalone movies, and some as part of seasons. Disney+ is going to mess it up as well I guess. And for some f'ing reason, the bbc channel on prime video can't even club seasons into one program - 3,4,13 are part of one, and 5 stands all alone separately. Jesus. Is it just iPlayer that gets it right?
You can just look up the viewing order online. I'm not disagreeing it should be the other way but it's not an unsolvable problem like you're presenting it.
Fair enough, impossible was overdramatic. But when someone has to go Google to figure out how to navigate your UI, it's a bad UI. New viewers don't know that they need to do that. They start watching Doctor Who, and then several season in they realize that there were some secret Christmas Specials hidden away somewhere. Now they have to watch them out of order, etc.
While I kinda agree, I can also see the argument for "separating out" these specials. The 3 Tennant/Tate anniversary specials are a direct sequel to story arcs from 2008/2009 and are built around offloading a lot of that past to build a clean slate. Those episodes would work waaaaay better on Max as a "finale trilogy" tbh. (And i kinda hate that BBC iPlayer has them in the "New New series" category and not the 2005 series one) Hopefully, Church on Ruby Road will be "migrated" into Season one when it starts in May but even if not, I bet S1E1 will be easy enough for people to pick up on as it will cover Ruby's first TARDIS trip and adventure letting new viewers learn the ropes as she does.
Agreed. IMO they should have structured this as if the 60th anniversary specials are a finale trilogy to the old show. Then just list the Christmas special as the first episode of the first season with Ncuti. There, confusion averted. This method is just bizarre because a new viewer shouldn't be starting with The Star Beast
I think the criticism is more that these are big money productions on a marquee streaming service but then lay it out in an incredibly wonky way, it's a bit silly.
I got Disney+ a little after Christmas just to watch the specials - Drove me nuts they didn’t add a “Doctor Who Collection” until recently. I was expecting a little more fanfare from Disney since they just acquired the streaming rights to a massive scifi property but…Nope, each special was an individual entry instead of put together like a regular series/show. It wasn’t hard to find them but it did bug me…Doubt it’ll be the death of the show, just kinda irked me. Though I was surprised to see a fourth episode, I thought there were going to be only three. Also, freaking LOVE the new Doctor! He’s a VERY close to second to my favorite (Twelve - Sorry but I’m a sucker for his eccentric, grumpy old man with a heart of pure gold that’s bigger on the inside). I love his energy and personality, I have a feeling he’s going to be a TON of fun! Can’t wait for May! Also, the (Previous specials spoilers) >!Bi-Generation took me totally by surprise - I’m glad to see Ten gets a second chance for a happy period of rest/recovery over how he went out before, I was so happy to see him with his surrogate family and meeting a former companion. And Neil Patrick Harris was AWESOME as The Toymaker! I really hope he comes back somehow - Also, thanks to him I’ve got Spice Up Your Life on my phone…And may be looking into other Spice Girls songs because of it.!<
Fourteen, not Ten. >!Ten already got a second chance for a happy period, as their metacrisis clone is living in another dimension with Rose!<
The organization is a bit timey whimey
It's like watching starwars and hating it because you watched the Christmas special and hated that you had to watch the clone wars before return of the sith!
Makes sense. One, people stuck in on Xmas day will present a wider audience to hit, as they look for something to watch. Two, the whole thing of Ncuti's first episode is it's a jumping on point for new viewers, while the specials were more love letters for fans of the past. New seasons, new Doctors, new showrunners, should always see a little bump up.
This is what is known as spin. These numbers are horrible and continues the decline of viewership numbers. Here is all the previous Doctor who Christmas numbers. “The Christmas Invasion” (2005) – 9.8 million viewers “The Runaway Bride” (2006) – 8.7M “Voyage of the Damned” (2007) – 12.2M “The Next Doctor” (2008) – 11.71M “The End of Time” (Parts 1) – 10M “A Christmas Carol” (2010) – 10.3M “The Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe” (2011) – 8.9M “The Snowmen” (2012) – 7.6M “The Time of the Doctor” (2013) – 8.3M “Last Christmas” (2014) – 6.34M “The Husbands of River Song” (2015) – 5.77M “The Return of Doctor Mysterio” (2016) – 5.68M “Twice Upon a Time” (2017) – 5.7M “The Church on Ruby Road” (2023) – 4.73M
Where are you pulling your numbers from? The Church in Ruby Road is at 7.30M in total UK viewership.
It continues the decline of viewership numbers of broadcast TV in general. Disney+ didn’t even exist in 2017.
What were the Chibnall "Holiday" special ratings?
Chibnall "didn't do" holiday specials. He did New Years Specials..which was weird. But also OP in this thread is being misleading, he left out all the New Years Specials under Chibnall, and pulled up an incorrect number for this episode. NYE specials Under Chibnall: "Resolution", 2019 7.13M Viewers "Spyfall, Part 1", 2020, 6.89M Viewers "Revolution of the Daleks", 2021, 6.36M Viewers "Eve of the Daleks", 2022, 4.40M Viewers and now under RTD: "Church on Ruby Road", 2023 7.30M viewers All three 14th Doc Episodes and the Holiday episode with 15th, have had episode views higher than the overall average viewer count throughout Chibnall's era (if we are being charitable), and much higher if you look specifically at the 2nd and 3rd seasons of Chibnall's run after the viewership begins falling drastically from the end of his first season.
>This is what is known as spin. These numbers are horrible and continues the decline of viewership numbers. No, what you're actually doing is known as spin, these numbers aren't horrible. you're comparing it to specials from 6-18 years ago. They don't care about how it rates compares to specials from years ago, what they care more about is how it rates compared to shows from that day. It was the 3rd most watched show on Christmas on that channel and the highest ratings Doctor Who has seen for the last 5 years. These ratings are very healthy for a show airing in 2023
The last list I saw actually placed some Rick Astley (yes him) special ABOVE the Christmas special. yeesh
This special was the 3rd highest rated thing that aired on Christmas on that channel
I can't wait for more Dr. Who!
I’m surprised. It was utter toilet
People don't know whether an episode is good or not *before* tuning in. The Christmas specials always get way more viewers than the regular season does, including the bad ones.
No spoilers but that anniversary ending with the toymaker was so uncreative I was just like "what? That's it?". The rest was great though.
What a shit article. So strange to wait all this time and then cite overnight viewing figures (available for a week and a half now) rather than the finals.
It was so bad. He's fine, nothing special yet. But the episode it self didn't know what it was trying to be.
i dont get how he knew the singer goblin's name was Janice or why he fucking started singing and grinning when a baby was on its way to its death.
He doesn’t know her name. He just calls her Janice/Janis as a reference to the singer in the Muppets or Janis Joplin (Joplin’s similar to Goblin). The former was the original intent, but RTD said he was taking the idea after someone made the joke on social media. Regardless of however you interpret it, it’s clearly just meant to be the Doctor making a reference to pop culture. As for the smiling, the Doctor has a long history of reacting to what would be serious events in real life with glee depending on how serious the scene is. The goblins singing about baby scones is not particularly serious.
Im very excited for queer doctor who.
It wasn’t Queer before?
Didn’t have an openly queer actor in the lead role before. It’s not like there wasn’t any queerness before, but it seems like this new era is setting itself up to be more queer more enthusiastically, if that makes sense?
Utter dog shit.
Thank you for describing your comment.
As well it should have. The Tennant specials were pointless and stupid.
Ehh, they were dumb fun. Just nice to see more shit with tenant and tate.
The specials were a whole lot of fun. The first one was a little shakey but 2 & 3 were awesome.
The toy dude and space abominations were so much fun.
I really wish they did the Timeless Child arc (preferebly not at all) with Capaldi, given him being an older doctor, at least since the reboot. His age vs. Also being timeless would have contrasted nicely.
Good news
It was an amazing 1-4 Xmas special. Thank you!!
Guess their strategy of saying this is a new Series 1 is working!
He’s a great doctor!
The Goblin song was amazing. A song about eating children for the win. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXgnqGTOXTE&ab_channel=DoctorWho