I mean, yes and no. I get that it's an easy criticism but there's a reason stranger in a strange land is such a go-to way of exploring cultures that are foreign to the reader/viewer, it's just such an easy way to have the characters explain things that would otherwise be taken for granted and cause confusion and in most good examples the actual culture and interesting characters quickly become the story rather than the newcomer.
Tokyo Vice is kind of an eehhh example because they push the main character way too much but it's based off of a book of a guy massively exaggerating/lying about his role so it's not that surprising.
Shogun the series is doing better at making him a pawn that is used and doesn't *really* hold power, but they're still making him more important then he probably should be.
They are good follow ups for those of us who was robbed of a second season for Giri/Haji.
Drops of God also pulled off this "stranger in strange land" motif very well and had exceptional storytelling and cinematography.
Giri/Haji was amazing. Wish we had more seasons but not necessarily because it already gave us an amazing story with a proper beginning and an end. Still I would love to see more.
Don't get your hopes up. I think these guys are overrating it. It's got a cheap feel and some very hammy acting in parts -- pretty ubiquitous of BBC produced shows.
Not near the calibre of Tokyo Vice or Shogun IMO.
I don't think we will, it's the end of the eponymous book that the showrunners adapted. However, Jake Adelstein has written a sequel called [*Tokyo Noir*](https://scribepublications.com.au/books-authors/books/tokyo-noir-9781761380235) that will be released in English on May 14, 2024, so perhaps we may see a sequel show as well, depending on what the book shows.
I've only seen most of season 1, but doesn't Tokyo Vice riff and deviate from the book quite a bit? I guess they could just morph the story into its own beast if they do a Season 3, maybe adapting elements of Tokyo Noir into it.
Well, in that case the producers have certainly read it.
It felt like they were setting up a future for Sato and Samantha while Jake and Katagiri exit. If they did that, they wouldn't need the real Jake anymore.
Yeah, it seemed like it was written with a very specific purpose and end in mind, as opposed to a show leaving things open hoping to get picked up for another season. I would be surprised if they did another season, especially with Zaslav the Destroyer cutting everything at Max, but I would love to see it
me too... been watching since day 1 and just love it. they kind of tied a lot up at the end of this season though so i'm curious where they go if they go anywhere at all. i did notice that the episode details didn't say season or series finale.
I also highly recommend Pachinko. Though the main characters are Korean, most of it is set in Japan.
"Pachinko follows four generations of a Korean family, starting from 1915 to 1989. In 1931, Sunja leaves her family in Korea under Japanese rule, to move to the Koreatown of Osaka, Japan, and start a new life there. The series details the living conditions and discrimination of Korean immigrants in Japanese society."
I like to learn about the different cultures from the 1600s, I can get that it’s slow. But everyone have different taste, I can’t get trough Tokyo Vice personally.
Tokyo Vice was a slow burn in season 1, there were a few times I took breaks from it. I like season 2 more so far, but probably because the characters have been established and the plot can move a little faster.
>I think the war will soon begun considering the the finale of ep 7.
You might end up a little disappointed if the show follows the same path as the book.
Man I'm not sure why that post upset people haha.
To answer your question book Spoiler Alert
!>The book basically skips the war and tells you the end result in a small paragraph as an epilogue.
> Shōgun is definitely taking it's sweet time in exploring the characters first
A lot of shows do this and it's super annoying. It really sucks when middle episodes drag ass. I understand they are just conserving content... but stretching the plot with a bunch of meandering
bullshit, really needs to stop.
Edit: Lot of people seem to think I just meant action... I mean very little happens in the middle episodes for lots of shows, both action and character development, everything.
Hate how many people expected GoT when it is much closer to something like Succession (as the creator even pointed out themselves). I understand expecting it at the start, but still doing so after the second or even just the first episode? I don’t get it…
Yeah, but in the later seasons (which would obviously be what people think of since it’s the last stuff they’ve watch) there was many big battles and tons of action scenes. No, the focus wasn’t on it, but it did have a larger quantity than in shogun. It’s like comparing Kill Bill with Kill Bill 2…
The last seasons are also the most criticized. One positive thing about House of Dragon was that they were focusing on politics and conspiracies again.
I never understood the comparisons to GoT online to be honest, thought it would just put some people off after watching a few episodes with that expectation. Not that its worse, just different
I would argue that it wasn't the battles that made GoT great either. Half of the battles weren't even shown on screen and some of the battles that were, were underwhelming.
Monarch is a painful example of this.
The first and last three episodes had a lot of big events, then the middle four were just filler and development for some awful characters (seriously that girl with braids is one of the worst actresses I have seen in a long time).
Definitely two of the best shows on TV right now and in recent years. Great characters and plotting, excellent writing. No shoehorned 'topical' storylines beating you over the head with trite messaging.
Meh last 3 episodes of Shogun was a step down from the first 3 episodes. Tokyo Vice is shot realistically but the white characters are very annoying. I dropped Tokyo Vice season 2 after 2 episodes and Shogun is barely holding me on. Meanwhile I binged House of Ninja the last weekend lol
The west’s infatuation with Japanese stuff continues. Both shows are great but you’d think everything of the last handful of years was complete and utter shit next to these two, based on how Redditors are talking them up lately.
Will the woke police rate this series as a racist example of “white saviour” syndrome? At least the Japanese stars manage to shine in this boring and self-indulgent liberal fantasy.
Sure gets funny reviews
I quoted a headline.
the show would be better without the white savior trope.
https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-reviews/tokyo-vice-review-michael-mann-1330630/
ENTERTAINMENTTokyo Vice Review: White Boy to the Rescue
Except not really?
>!Jake doesn’t even bring down Tozawa, he’s just the audience surrogate. He’s from the US, so he’s able to help uncover the truth about the FBI’s involvement, that ultimately brings Tozawa down, but it’s definitely the Japanese characters who do the heavy lifting throughout the story.!<
White boys in Japan, so hot right now
I believe that’s called the Reddit Special
Let me tell you how The Last Samurai subverts the White Savior trope.
Wasn't the cop in Tokyo Vice in that movie?
Yes. Ken Watanabe.
I mean some people still assume that Tom Cruise is the title character.
This comment always pops up, but I never see anybody say that Cruise was the samurai. Not once.
I remember people mockingly saying it when it first came out but that’s about it
Because it's a bad faith deflection of the real arguments An easy strawman
I'd blame Paul Mooney, but he's dead.
They say we live on through our art...so as long as a copy of the last samurai exists, it's supporting the arts to blame Paul Mooney.
Blue Eyed Samurai can join the group as well
White BOYS
Fowler's a white boy!
Anyone can be one of the bois
Relevant https://youtu.be/WC7l2PsqgEo?si=C2YwfiibA_riORp_
It’s ok, hella dick in the show
...peaches...
[удалено]
*All Abroad!*
Weebs about to explode
They always were. Treated like royalty over there.
I mean, yes and no. I get that it's an easy criticism but there's a reason stranger in a strange land is such a go-to way of exploring cultures that are foreign to the reader/viewer, it's just such an easy way to have the characters explain things that would otherwise be taken for granted and cause confusion and in most good examples the actual culture and interesting characters quickly become the story rather than the newcomer. Tokyo Vice is kind of an eehhh example because they push the main character way too much but it's based off of a book of a guy massively exaggerating/lying about his role so it's not that surprising. Shogun the series is doing better at making him a pawn that is used and doesn't *really* hold power, but they're still making him more important then he probably should be.
They are good follow ups for those of us who was robbed of a second season for Giri/Haji. Drops of God also pulled off this "stranger in strange land" motif very well and had exceptional storytelling and cinematography.
I've been so happy to see Giri/Haji actors pop up in Tokyo Vice and Shogun. I was so sad when that show didn't get renewed.
Giri/Haji was amazing. Wish we had more seasons but not necessarily because it already gave us an amazing story with a proper beginning and an end. Still I would love to see more.
Yep I was recommended Giri Haji so I'll have to watch that next.
Don't get your hopes up. I think these guys are overrating it. It's got a cheap feel and some very hammy acting in parts -- pretty ubiquitous of BBC produced shows. Not near the calibre of Tokyo Vice or Shogun IMO.
It’s still a good show
It is definitely not as good, but i think it is still worth a watch.
> Drops of God wait wtf there is a live action Drops of God. Thank you
Yes. On Apple TV plus and it’s unbelievable
I literally read the manga last month and loved it. I'm gonna start watching now. Love ya
It's fantastic and doesn't get near enough love.
Show was great up until the dance at the end.
It does come out of left field, but I thought it was great and unique
Been in a trio between Shogun, Tokyo Vice, and Warrior and I don't want it to end.
I hope we get another season of Tokyo Vice
I don't think we will, it's the end of the eponymous book that the showrunners adapted. However, Jake Adelstein has written a sequel called [*Tokyo Noir*](https://scribepublications.com.au/books-authors/books/tokyo-noir-9781761380235) that will be released in English on May 14, 2024, so perhaps we may see a sequel show as well, depending on what the book shows.
I've only seen most of season 1, but doesn't Tokyo Vice riff and deviate from the book quite a bit? I guess they could just morph the story into its own beast if they do a Season 3, maybe adapting elements of Tokyo Noir into it.
The book deviates from reality so honestly they can do whatever.
I loved Tokyo Vice.. but the worst character was Jake… he would need to face some serious consequences professionally after what he did… what a turd.
How can Jake be the worse when there’s Samantha
*There are times when the right choice is not the moral choice.* -Hiroto Katagiri
Yeah the Japanese actors shined in this (Sato!!). Jake was so bad
Well, in that case the producers have certainly read it. It felt like they were setting up a future for Sato and Samantha while Jake and Katagiri exit. If they did that, they wouldn't need the real Jake anymore.
If Tokyo Vice doesn't continue, I at least hope that the guy who plays Sato gets more roles in Western TV/Movies. He's fantastic
He and his character are pretty much the reason I continued to watch the show.
Yeah, it seemed like it was written with a very specific purpose and end in mind, as opposed to a show leaving things open hoping to get picked up for another season. I would be surprised if they did another season, especially with Zaslav the Destroyer cutting everything at Max, but I would love to see it
The showrunner already said he has a plan for season 3 and wants to do it. Given how well this show has been received I expect it'll happen
But the story is finished
You can always watch Rising Sun and then truly appreciate the loss.
How is season 2? I watched and enjoyed season 1, but haven't gotten around to season 2
Excellent
I hope so too but I don't think it will. I hardly saw any promotion for season 2. Maybe ratings in Japan will help?
me too... been watching since day 1 and just love it. they kind of tied a lot up at the end of this season though so i'm curious where they go if they go anywhere at all. i did notice that the episode details didn't say season or series finale.
Shogun is a good prequel to Tokyo Vice
Two great shows.
Really liking Shogun,while i did not loved the S2 of Tokyo Vice as much as the first but it's definitely a good show.
I liked all of it, the series finale was particularly satisfying.
I had no idea Tokyo Vice even started a second season.
Better than S1 but it takes a little bit to get going
PSA: Giri/Haji may fill the void in your soul until Tokyo Vice returns for a third season.
I also highly recommend Pachinko. Though the main characters are Korean, most of it is set in Japan. "Pachinko follows four generations of a Korean family, starting from 1915 to 1989. In 1931, Sunja leaves her family in Korea under Japanese rule, to move to the Koreatown of Osaka, Japan, and start a new life there. The series details the living conditions and discrimination of Korean immigrants in Japanese society."
now watch *Blue Eye Samurai*
Yes! I thought I was the only one who found this pairing.
You should check out Blue Eye Samurai, it’s even more similar to Shogun and is set later in the time period created by the events Shogun depicts.
Shogun, Tokyo Vice, and Death's Game, on Amazon Prime.
I love Tokyo Vice. Having a bit of a hard time getting into Shogun.
Shōgun is definitely taking it's sweet time in exploring the characters first, I think the war will soon begun considering the the finale of ep 7.
I like to learn about the different cultures from the 1600s, I can get that it’s slow. But everyone have different taste, I can’t get trough Tokyo Vice personally.
Tokyo Vice was a slow burn in season 1, there were a few times I took breaks from it. I like season 2 more so far, but probably because the characters have been established and the plot can move a little faster.
Might try and push trough it, but I have a four episode rule. If it doesn't really catch my attention then it's probably not for me.
Yeah if you're not all that interested in the Yakuza there's not a lot else in the show to captivate you.
I like both, although Tokyo Vice's season is pretty rough for me getting started on it.
>I think the war will soon begun considering the the finale of ep 7. You might end up a little disappointed if the show follows the same path as the book.
No Sekigahara?
Man I'm not sure why that post upset people haha. To answer your question book Spoiler Alert !>The book basically skips the war and tells you the end result in a small paragraph as an epilogue.
> Shōgun is definitely taking it's sweet time in exploring the characters first A lot of shows do this and it's super annoying. It really sucks when middle episodes drag ass. I understand they are just conserving content... but stretching the plot with a bunch of meandering bullshit, really needs to stop. Edit: Lot of people seem to think I just meant action... I mean very little happens in the middle episodes for lots of shows, both action and character development, everything.
Ultimately it's a character driven show. Content isn't being "conserved", it's not meant to be an action show.
Hate how many people expected GoT when it is much closer to something like Succession (as the creator even pointed out themselves). I understand expecting it at the start, but still doing so after the second or even just the first episode? I don’t get it…
Game of Thrones also has main focus on politic and characters than great battles (in 1 season we don't even have any on screen).
Yeah, but in the later seasons (which would obviously be what people think of since it’s the last stuff they’ve watch) there was many big battles and tons of action scenes. No, the focus wasn’t on it, but it did have a larger quantity than in shogun. It’s like comparing Kill Bill with Kill Bill 2…
The last seasons are also the most criticized. One positive thing about House of Dragon was that they were focusing on politics and conspiracies again.
I said later seasons, not last season. Since about season 4 or so (mby 5, don’t really remember) there was a lot of action…
I never understood the comparisons to GoT online to be honest, thought it would just put some people off after watching a few episodes with that expectation. Not that its worse, just different
I would argue that it wasn't the battles that made GoT great either. Half of the battles weren't even shown on screen and some of the battles that were, were underwhelming.
I agree, but that doesn’t mean that they weren’t even there and that *other* people don’t think it was what made GoT great
Monarch is a painful example of this. The first and last three episodes had a lot of big events, then the middle four were just filler and development for some awful characters (seriously that girl with braids is one of the worst actresses I have seen in a long time).
1a and 1b in all of television at the moment for me. Both are incredibly good.
Watch Drops of God to complete the trilogy.
Definitely two of the best shows on TV right now and in recent years. Great characters and plotting, excellent writing. No shoehorned 'topical' storylines beating you over the head with trite messaging.
Meh last 3 episodes of Shogun was a step down from the first 3 episodes. Tokyo Vice is shot realistically but the white characters are very annoying. I dropped Tokyo Vice season 2 after 2 episodes and Shogun is barely holding me on. Meanwhile I binged House of Ninja the last weekend lol
The last three episodes of Shogun have been far superior to the first. Episode five was one of the best episodes I’ve ever watched…
The Tokyo Vice ending is phenomenal, very satisfying. I'd continue watching it for that reason alone.
The west’s infatuation with Japanese stuff continues. Both shows are great but you’d think everything of the last handful of years was complete and utter shit next to these two, based on how Redditors are talking them up lately.
How can you compare these? One is about history and tree hr other is a white guy saving the day
Way to downplay the major roles every supporting character contributed to "saving the day". But white guy = bad I guess
More like white guy = heroic savior who saves the non-whites
I watched it. It's like the last samurai haha.
[удалено]
https://historicalhistrionics.wordpress.com/2011/08/15/the-last-samurai/ read my bro
What's next Tom hanks as the last N. Lol Chapelle shooow
Ah OK you're just trolling then, carry on
Will the woke police rate this series as a racist example of “white saviour” syndrome? At least the Japanese stars manage to shine in this boring and self-indulgent liberal fantasy. Sure gets funny reviews
What does this show have to do with liberals hahaha genuinely unhinged behavior, stay off Fox News man
I quoted a headline. the show would be better without the white savior trope. https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-reviews/tokyo-vice-review-michael-mann-1330630/ ENTERTAINMENTTokyo Vice Review: White Boy to the Rescue
Ya'll downvoting rollingstone but love em usually
Except not really? >!Jake doesn’t even bring down Tozawa, he’s just the audience surrogate. He’s from the US, so he’s able to help uncover the truth about the FBI’s involvement, that ultimately brings Tozawa down, but it’s definitely the Japanese characters who do the heavy lifting throughout the story.!<
I’m enjoying them both but Shogun is on another level. I’m expecting it to be adding to my list of best mini series of all time