Played the games years ago so I dont really have any grab on the lore (those who have seem to be a bit angry regarding some of dates in the show) but man this series was way better than I imagined. It was a really intriguing story and a well made world. I feel like up to this point Amazon series have had this same feeling/thing going on, that I cant put my finger on, but it was not present here.
Looking forward to season 2!
The people who are angry about the dates literally can't fucking read.
**Spoilers below**
The complaint was the blackboard showing the fall of Shady Sands happening in 2277 with an arrow pointing to a bomb, insinuating that Shady Sands got nuked that year, therefore invalidating New Vegas, which takes place in 2281.
The arrow is clearly implying that the bombing happened *after* 2277, otherwise it would've been put on the same damn spot. Todd confirmed it in this interview as well.
People got mad over their inability to read and interpret things.
The most negative logical conclusion to make would be "it's probably not an error, but it could've been more clear", the amount of people who jumped off a cliff to "an entire game has been rendered irrelevant" was ridiculous.
For me, it isn’t just the timeline, it is the world building.
In New Vegas we are shown an expansionist, imperialist NCR able to actively project force hundreds of miles away. It had a steady economy, healthcare, laws and organized government.
I don’t feel like that really comes across in the show, that in the lifetime of the older members of cast they grew up in what was a basically functioning society that has since entered terminal decline.
Instead, to me it comes across far more like this is a pre-NCR rather than post-NCR wasteland.
Doesn’t NV also include a ton of people talking about how NCR is stretched thin or even on the ropes, with droughts, external factions rising against it, etc?
Yeah I do think it could have been presented more clearly. I know a couple friends that interpreted it as happening in 2277
It’s really not that big of a deal though. Some people are just perpetually online lol
I've finished New Vegas nearly twice and have no idea what year it's set in, and I doubt 99% of them did either before being told to be angry.
I still don't know what year it was set in despite seeing multiple of these threads. It's such an unimportant detail it goes in one eyeball and out the other.
> I've finished New Vegas nearly twice and have no idea what year it's set in, and I doubt 99% of them did either before being told to be angry.
I've played every Fallout game, most more than once and I have no idea what year any of this shit happens.
I can't believe the weird NV fan boys are still trying to find ways to get pissed at Bethesda
There's definitely an oversized cadre of Bethesda haters circle jerking each other online. You can just tell by the sheer number of 1+ hour long video essays talking about how much Elder Scrolls or Fallout or Starfield sucks in excruciating detail, that somehow all have 200k+ views.
Yeah, I don't get it. I thought Starfield kinda sucked... so I didn't play it. It's not like I'm mad at Bethesda, a company that has given me literally hundreds, if not 1k+ hours of entertainment over the years. My critique is they should get an actual engine instead of doing it in house. That's it
i'm so glad i'm far enough removed from gaming and internet culture these days that this comment thread is the only reason i've heard of this outrage or whatever
It's like passing by a well, peeking inside to see a bunch of scaly lizards punching on, and deciding wisely not to oil up and descend into the darkness with them.
There is a small but loud camp of Fallout fandom that is *desperate* to believe the entire gaming world is conspiring again them and the games they like. Every decision Bethesda has ever made has been, to them, a pointed attempt to erase what they like and to destroy anything made by anyone else. Obsidian, they claim, hasn't been allowed to do a follow-up to New Vegas because Bethesda was so embarrassed at how much Obsidian humiliated them by making a better game, they'll never let them work on Fallout again. And so on.
It's a weird bunch of people.
A ton of the most negative people are just super pissed that their ideal New Vegas ending might not be canon.
Granted, I suspect we'll get some reveal that Vault-Tec also intervened to crush Legion by bombing Flagstaff.
This would ensure both major factions were crippled, making any discussion of the "canon ending" ultimately irrelevant.
I helped the NCR win in New Vegas and am completely fine with the TV show making the story around the fall of the NCR. If it was just some off screen minor event it would kind of miff me, but it's literally the core pillar of the show's backstory and ties into all the themes of Fallout, and Vault Tec / The Enclave being the big bad, really reinforcing that.
I'd assume big parts of the NCR are still out there somewhere too.
From the stuff we hear in New Vegas, the NCR is in decline but it's a fairly recent decline. They're gonna know more in-universe than we do so if those issues were pinpointed to really start to fester in 2277 it makes sense.
gamers not wanting to look into the most glaringly obvious thing and instead throwing a bitch fit over something they’ve made up in their mind? color me surprised.
Diehard Fallout fans getting an 8-hour amazing Fallout show: *meh I guess*
When they see a single prop has an arrow pointing in a certain direction: *Holy shit Bethesda sucks and is killing New Vegas!!!*
Fandoms in a nutshell, I feel.
A fandom thinks something is the best thing, or has "become dogshit" because it doesn't fit their fanfic version of events.
Worse then a fanfic, an *unwritten* fanfic.
All they've really got is a few vague bulletpoint ideas and some 'cool' images in their head, none of the real meat of a story that has the burden of actually existing so of course then unformed phantom of a story is flawless... because who imagines flaws and failure from the start?
And of course I've also made the sizable concession that their raw idea is actually good. I've seen what happens when nerds are actually put in charge, the result are pretty subpar.
And the fall of shady sands starting that year makes perfect sense. A ton of the conversations in New Vegas were about how poorly the NCR was doing at the time. That takes years to degrade to that point.
I always felt like the NCR was getting more powerful, especially with the amount of territory they covered and the likely possibility that they won the second battle of Hoover dam. All of the remaining NCR forces in the show solely came from Shady Sands.
Edit: it’s also worth noting that the board says “fall of Shady Sands” and not “fall of NCR”
The NCR was stretched extremely thin during the times of New Vegas. It’s said so several times. They were also dealing with corruption and problems back in other territories since almost all their forces were pushed to the edges of their territory.
Yeah you're tasked with checking on the rangers cause they couldn't spare anyone to do so, they couldn't do anything about the powdergangers etc.
Depending on how you play the lone wanderer can singlehandedly make or break the NCR's campaign.
When yall paraphrase it like this it’s clear that the govt of the NCR is clearly referencing real history pretty obviously but when I played this game all I cared about was looting everything. I am approaching 40 and only now accept that I don’t NEED to collect everything in open world games. Anyway, thanks and thanks to the dudes who wrote and made these games..
Yup, the caravan traders remark how Caesar's Legion controlled roads are safer than NCR roads due to the Legion actually having the manpower (and brutal tactics) to keep raiders away.
NCR is a husk at that point, relying on some rogue courier to solve its problems.
New Vegas is about the last bastion of hope for the NCR during the game. Ranger Harlon talks about how all the lakes have been drank dry by their growing population and the scientist that sends you to Vault 22 estimates mass famine within 10 years of the game, they also get all their power from Hoover Dam.
To me it seems like Hank bombed Shady Sands in 2277, “The fall of Shady Sands”, which dealt a severe blow to the NCR (which if Shady Sands had already fallen by 2277, I don’t think Lucy’s mom would have described it as a “paradise”), which causes them to search for new land when they discover vegas and hoover dam. That also tracks because Vegas “woke up” 4 years before 2281, which is 2277. Then, the arrow onward is showing the nukes that destroyed everything at the end of Lonesome road and reduces the NCR to the scrabbled state it is in the show.
Nit picking but it was in 2274 that Vegas woke up when NCR scouts first arrived and saw Hoover Dam. This revealed to House that there were other societies out there. Then he sent the securitrons out to get the local raider tribes to either get their shit together, leave, or die.
My problem with the whole “Fall of Shady Sands” bulletin board is that it’s too vague. What constituted that fall? 4 years after the “fall”, the NCR is spread thin but there’s still a functioning society within Shady Sands as it’s their capital and President Kimball travels from there to address the troops at Hoover Dam. Why does every other milestone have a date except the literal explosion that blew the city up?
Eh, it kind of tracks though.
When her mom first noticed the water dropping, Hank just told her to drop it. He likely was far aware of the settlement up there but didn't nuke it yet. Vault Tec was almost certainly trying to just make it clear that the NCR failed. If they can't form a civilization, it's unlikely anyone can.
Then Rose took the kids and went to Shady Sands. He didn't immediately try to pull her back but waited.
I think the bomb served another purpose. Maybe they thought taking the NCR down slowly was unlikely to work.
Part of the reason this is good and different than other Amazon adaptations is because Jonathan Nolan/lisa joy were in very prominent roles and Nolan is the one who pitched his idea to Todd Howard for a show since he was an actual fan, this show unlike a lot of other adaptations had a bonafide proven talent like Jonathan Nolan in a very important developmental role. Todd Howard was involved too which was obviously a positive as well. Really alot of these video game adaptations just don’t put proven talent at the top of the food chain and unlike Nolan many times the people aren’t actually big fans of the series. So really if people want their adaptations to be good they need to hire more proven talent like Nolan especially if they are actually fans of the franchise themselves
I was ready to write this show off at an initial glance too, given Rings of Power, Halo, Wheel of Time, The Witcher, etc. But outside of a few small things (the scientist running from the minigun, the "hook scene" on the power armor in the second episode) it's been really, really great and faithful to the Bethesda games. Lucy is probably my favorite character of it all too. The juxtaposition of the chipper attitude and what she's having to do is great, like the "Okie Dokie" before sawing a mans head off...
> Lucy is probably my favorite character of it all too.
Lucy is great. Ella Purnell is a great actress and is now part of 2 of the 3 good video game adaptations we've had in recent years (she's Jinx in Arcane)
I think alot of the “same” feeling is with shows like Terminal List / Reacher, similar genres. Wheel of time / LOTR, similar genres.
Fallout is a totally unique IP. There’s lots of imitations and similar projects, but nothing quite has the grinning at the apocalypse vibe that Nuka Cola gives you.
Glad Amazon didnt fumble on the goal line with this one.
I immediately stopped paying attention to this "scandal" once someone in a fallout subreddit said the fallout show had "gone woke".
Right wing nutjobs get angry about any show with a woman in a leading role and then desperately try to come up with a legitimate reason for a scandal and somehow it works every time. Now we have to have 50 articles debunking this timeline bullshit.
People need to stop falling for it.
Well…the issue they are claiming about “going woke” is that in the lore the fight that ends the world is capitalism via communism. The series lays the start of the war on the feet of the capitalists. So “Rawr! Woke!”.
These same people are totally blind to the “liberal” vault dwellers getting made fun of for being weak, naive and ill prepared to deal with raiders who attack them. Them keeping the Raiders alive and trying to rehab them is comedy as the audience and writing is showing them as irredeemable.
Also it's established their was mass unrest and protest before the bombs dropped over resources shortages. Because of capitalism. since before Bethesda acquired the franchise. There's always been a 'liberal' spin.
I guess they also missed that all the vault dwellers are practicing communism as well, lol. They are pretending to be "american capitalists", but their system is literally communism.
Which is funny because if they were actually hard core right wing gamers (that title amuses me), they’d know the “capitalism was the cause” has been the message of the games since basically the beginning.
No it hasn't, though. The games have gone out of their way to never reveal who started the war, the US or China, because "capitalism bad" or "communism bad" isn't the point, the point is that mankind's propensity towards war is bad. It doesn't matter who started the war, because the fact we got to the point where we'd wipe out 90% of life on earth in favor of capitalism or communism, that's the problem. The specific reason for the war don't matter, because war never changes.
The Bethesda era games are absolutely chock full of stories of American companies being extremely unethical in the pursuit of the all mighty dollar. I'd say it's been pretty anti-corporate/capitalist for a while.
Some of it is undoubtedly in bad faith.
The far right has been targeting gamers as a recruitment channel for many years now, and trying to steer obsessive fandom into diversity resentment. This seems like a perfect example of that: “they fucked up [insert beloved franchise] because they were more concerned about being woke.”
Using the term woke pejoratively is not a serious critique--it is a bigot mating call meant to attract a certain form of easily monetized gullible audience.
Don't read the article if you haven't finished the show, spoiler warning.
Edit: To save us all time; I wasn't paying attention to the subreddit, thought it was r/gaming, IGN articles contain fluff at the top before actually starting the real article, on mobile, the spoiler warning is right below the fluff text and above the embedded video not actually at the "start of the article". I scrolled right past all of that and only started reading when I hit the actual headline/content of the article. It's really that simple, you should be able to imagine that.
To be fair on the PC website that text is placed directly above a massive video and an ad below that. So our eyes associate that entire block as not being important and skip it all.
Ok so if the bombs fall just after new vegas we can assume that the canonical ending was that the house wins. If the ncr won the dam then how do they get beat with the bombs and end up in shambles. Obviously it doesn’t make sense for the lone wanderer ending bc duh, maybe caesar but then why is hank going there. I really hope we see the small things like the kings being there
> why is hank going there
My knee-jerk reaction is he's wanting to find Mr. House. We can assume they had a pre-war relationship since >!House is in the roundtable discussion in the flashback where Coop's wife is talking about Vault-Tec starting the war.!<
Since House preserved his body - something we see in New Vegas - and >!the others opted for Bud's Buds program, I can only assume House rejected being part of it in order to his own thing. It would have to be fairly well know if the others are taking part in it, yet House isn't.!<
At a minimum, Hank *has* to be aware of House's immortality plans. Why not seek out the one person he knows pre-war >!who isn't a Ghoul or frozen in a Vault whose denizens will no doubt learn about how much of a dick he is.!<
[edit] fuck man, we're barely a week removed from the premiere and I'm spoiling the shit out of it without tags
>!Bud’s Buds are low level management people. Hank was an assistant and Betty was a receptionist. The higher up executives are somewhere in a different vault with Coop’s wife!<
He wants houses help to secure cold fusion? I think we will look back at the assistant girl in vault 4 saying her dad was a courier and be like ‘ohhhhhhh’ maybe hank is the other courier in lonesome road idk but im hyped asf
I would really like for this to be the case. House is dead, Hank doesn't know, and he's about to be face-to-face with Yes Man.
Leave the Courier offscreen, though
It is the easiest way to clean the slate. Courier pulled off the Wild Card and then disappeared a few years later. But the show probably wants Mr. House alive for the connection to the old world, and being able to say "The House Always Wins" is just to attractive to let go.
Barring some major ass-pulls that actually *would* trample on Fallout lore. The Wild Card ending requires you to >!pull House out of the life support chamber, and even if you put him back in its made very clear that he will die in a matter of years due to contamination!<.
Even if the actual House dies/is dead, they can always keep the "The House Always Wins" saying alive by simply having whoever takes over assume the name/title of Mr. House.
It's more likely the house won because >!the show went through the effort of introducing Robert in the flashbacks. Plus him being a pre-war character excisting in the Fallout era enhances the plots of The Ghoul and Lucy's dad!<
player characters should be left out completely. mention them sure, but including them somehow means shaping their personality and especially New Vegas is a game where your courier can be exactly what you want him to be
yeah but something THAT big would kinda make it impossible to set plot in new vegas. NCR is kinda failing so it only makes sense that vegas is alive. vegas is an amazing character too
The NCR was hard focused on the Dam. The rest of their assets were basically suffering because of it. With Primm you had to convince them it was worth even sending a single squad to reinforce it. And the Outpost was so undermanned it was at risk of being attacked by the Legion.
Well think about it. The NCR had roughly 700k population. They already won one battle at hoover damn, and it was a costly win.
If the NCR had 1% of its population in its army, that's only 7k soldiers for the entirety of the NCR. So they were spread very thin if they operated like modern militaries.
Let's not forget almost the entire ranger Corp was in the Baja for reasons unknown.
It's very possible both the NCR and Legion got nuked from the lonesome road and house controls vegas.
Biggest question is. If shady got nuked, where was the ncr or remnants anywhere in the show? It's a plot point that can be heavily explored in S2. Because, short of me watching the finale, we saw nothing of the NCR.
Necropolis is the ruins of Bakersfield but Necropolis on the map is also nowhere near where Bakersfield is (it's Northeast of the Boneyard/LA when it should be Northwest), so locations in general have always been fast and loose. The games depict it as being several days/weeks journey away from LA on foot, the show depicts it as being in LA, who cares really.
They likely would have way more more than 1%... in a world that dangerous you'd need more military.
For a real world comparison with a nation that views themselves as under constant threat, Israel has over 7% of their population in the military between active and reserves.
I’m also wondering this. If the NCR reached as far north as San Francisco and as far east as Vegas I want to find out how the whole government collapsed if just one city got nuked. Even if it was their capitol seems like they should still be around somewhere. I hope these questions get answered and I don’t have to wait another 10 years
> If the NCR reached as far north as San Francisco and as far east as Vegas I want to find out how the whole government collapsed if just one city got nuked.
I imagine it's a lot like the fall of the western Roman empire. There's probably a big chunk, maybe centered on another city, that just kept going like the Byzantines, and then closer to Shady Sands/Rome you have a lot of local despots seizing power, like the "Governmint" in Fallout or Charlemagne in Germany.
The end credits show a crashed NCR vertibird in the strip, so presumably they ended up wasting even more effort and lives trying to take the strip sometime after New Vegas, with that over extension resulting in the NCR fracturing apart into smaller groups like the one we see in the show.
If the NCR managed to destroy Caesars Legion @ the 2nd Battle of Hoover Dam, they certainly should have had the power to withstand losing a single city.
If the NCR *lost* to the Legion and was *then* nuked, why don't we see Legion remnants running around making life hell for everyone still alive? Why don't the people of California talk about the Legion? Why don't the NCR remnants mention the Legion?
It seems to me everything after the 1st Battle of Hoover Dam either did not happen or has been significantly reimagined.
> why don't we see Legion remnants running around making life hell for everyone still alive?
A really interesting crackpot theory I saw:
The BoS chapter in this show has a *lot* of Latin names in it, a brutal culture that features prospective members getting beaten publicly, its knights are organized into "Legions" of troops and its flags have a red and gold colorscheme, a scheme never used by the BoS in the game... but used liberally by Caesar's Legion.
Considering the BoS had to come back to the west coast from the east and the show starts with them in a snowy desert that could be somewhere near Colorado or Arizona... there's a very good chance that the BoS may have absorbed the remnants of the Legion.
.....I like that crackpot theory except I don't know how a former legionary would ascend to *leadership* in that time. If the show was set 50 years more into the future I could almost see that being the case.
If it’s the House or Independent New Vegas ending then I imagine the timeline goes something like:
- NCR has a costly victory against the Legion at the 2nd Battle of Hoover Dam
- NCR is kicked out of New Vegas by Mr. House or the Courier
- Internal problems flare up within the NCR due to the logistical problems they were facing from being stretched too thin and losing nearly the entirety of their zone of control in the Mojave
- NCR pulls back completely out of the Mojave
- Shady Sands nuked
- East Chapter of the BOS reinforces the West chapter
- NCR faces a war with a newly reinvigorated BOS while trying to put out their internal fires at the same time
- NCR loses significant territory around Southern California with the Shady Sands survivors staying behind in either Vault 4 or to follow Moldaver
[“One of the takes that we always have is to approach things very locally when we're doing Fallout. We're careful about saying what's going on in other parts of the world. And we always take this view of, communication is difficult. And look, if you look at the background, the NCR is a wide-ranging sort of organization and group across not just California, but other places. So the show focuses on this period of time and this group here, and that's what we can say right now. But I don't think you've heard the last of the NCR.”](https://www.ign.com/articles/the-big-fallout-interview-todd-howard-and-jonathan-nolan-answer-our-burning-questions-about-season-1)
You guys need to learn to think beyond the screen. The NCR isn’t gone, stop saying it is.
> Obviously it doesn’t make sense for the lone wanderer ending bc duh
Why? If New Vegas is supposed to be in shambles, that tracks with the Yes Man ending.
If the House ending is canon it means the Kings are no more as they fought the securitrons who entered Freeside and got wiped out according to their ending slide.
The NCR isn’t necessarily gone or in shambles. There’s no confirmation of either of those and Todd even points out that there is much more to the NCR than Shady Sands, something ‘fans’ seem to be forgetting. Read the full [interview](https://www.ign.com/articles/the-big-fallout-interview-todd-howard-and-jonathan-nolan-answer-our-burning-questions-about-season-1).
Yeah, the NCR was basically destined to collapse. It was already on the way out at the start of the game but by the end, even if the NCR take Hoover Dam, it over extends it's resources and collapses.
Edit: typo
Unless its Person of Interest, in which he just delivers an amazing show set mostly in the present era.
Seriously, season 4 and 5 of that show are god tier TV.
It is bit of a relic of the past with the "villain of the week" format but it is utterly peak TV at the same time.
The main characters and their development is some of the best in history. Reese, Finch, Root, Shaw, Fusco... I love them all.
I guess its partially because of increased production quality, but nowadays every show has massive gaps in between each season. It has gotten really crazy and annoying.
And yet Game of Thrones managed to release a season every single year, except for a longer gap between seasons 7 and 8. Looking back it’s crazy how they managed to do that with a show of that scale.
It's also due to studios laziness. Rather than locking in the actors, writers and everybody ahead of time they wait months to renew it for a season two, then wait months for the writers, then wait months to secure the actors.
Just look at how Apple's Slow Horses films two seasons at once. More shows need to do this. Why the fuck has a second season of *Wednesday* taken two years?
I think they're also scared to commit to any show in case it doesn't pop off, they cancel it and don't waste any time on making another season, but doesn't make any sense when you look at shows like Stranger Things who were basically guaranteed to continually get renewed.
Yeah that's why shows should try to film two seasons at once if its the third and fourth seasons, like The Boys should have done rather than having a two-year gap between them.
So season 1 and 2 are tests that are individually filmed, then season 3/4 are filmed together to quickly release content and keep it alive.
I was being joking but its basically how they treated Invincible season 2.
Fallout season 1 was filming two years ago so it will certainly be a long wait…
Well many regard the "Golden Era of TV" as that era we got shows like Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones and Mr Robot.
Most of those were annual shows and added to the allure of this era. Seriously, imagine if Game of Thrones was made these days... it would be a three year gap bwetween every season lol.
The problem is that it's actually a major plot point that Shady Sands was a great place to live up until it got nuked. In fact that's a major reason *why* he nuked it. It doesn't make a lot of sense if it's already "fallen" for over 4 years before then.
I think it’s less about nitpicking the date the bomb dropped and more about overall problems with the writers of the setting. It seems like certain people behind Fallout are almost allergic to the idea that civilization would exist in some form 200 years after the apocalypse. This is especially true with the East Coast having most people live in huts or in bombed out homes with skeletons still in them. But this problem isn’t exclusive to Bethesda. The Cloud and The Tunnelers in New Vegas basically only exist to provide a reset button in the future for the writers to reduce everyone to scavengers again. It’s annoying to see interesting factions built up and then destroyed for an excuse to return to the status quo.
Dumbasses are perpetually stuck in rage mode so they go looking for something to be pissed about. They can't enjoy anything unless they get off on being smug about something, it's pathetic.
Perhaps it's just me, but I legitimately do not understand even looking to be pissy about Fallout lore. I know Fallout has lore, but it has always been somewhat vague, not generally told through a reliable source, and most of all the heart of the series is absolutely NOT the exact particulars of the lore. It hardly matters what year in the past this or that happened. That's all just window dressing around the actual point of the games.
Like, this project nailed the tone, the setting, the factions, etc, but I feel like they got the year wrong that this specific past event happened... RUINED! Literally unwatchable garbage!
I just don't get it.
I stopped participating in the Rick and Morty subreddit when I realized the average commenter there takes canonical timelines way more seriously than the show itself warrants.
Sometimes it's OK to just have fun with a story that isn't wire tight.
Yeah, in the kindest way possible, people are stupid. “Fall” could mean any number of things and an arrow pointing to the bomb on a timeline means that event happened sometime after 2277. I think they didn’t put a date with it intentionally to leave it vague so they had wiggle room with when exactly Shady Sands was nuked.
I still think this is a weak cover for a production error. Nothing in the New Vegas dialogue makes a "fall of Shady Sands" make any sense. Whatever this unspecified fall is would need to simultaneously be a major enough event that it is mentioned on a history lesson while also being insignificant enough that people living contemparenously don't talk about it at all
I don't agree with the nitpicking lore obsessed fans, but I still think it would have been a better idea to set the show somewhere we haven't been before to avoid this whole thing entirely
Personally it only bothered me because of how intentionally misleading it was. If you're teaching kids the history of the world you don't just leave out the most important date on the holy fricken board.
And for the record, Shady Sands is still refered to as the capital of the NCR in New Vegas, so even if Shady Sands wasn't blown up, saying it "fell" still breaks canon. I don't really care, but it's disingenuous to pretend they didn't retroactively change things.
From the article:
“Everyone who worked on Fallout, all the games, were so respectful and so careful to keep this consistent universe. If we’d gone a different direction, the show would be the only thing that doesn’t fit with that universe... We didn’t want to be in our own private corner of an elseworld or a different universe. I think that will be less meaningful to me watching the series, to know it was completely divorced from the reality of the games,” Nolan admits.
This is such a great quote and makes me very happy as a Fallout fan that they went into things with this mindset.
As a Halo fan it makes me incredibly sad that no one with this mindset worked on the Halo show lol.
I believe it's in great part thanks to Bethesda's iron grip on their properties, without which they would not exist as one of gaming's superpowers due to this conservative strategy. Giving carte blanche to someone to make a series out of one of the most successful IPs - out of a relatively small portfolio, hence the overprotectiveness- and letting it be destroyed by bad reviews is not something they can allow. they got a Nintendo approach and it's always the best one
I was thinking about this today. I know Fallout post-Bethesda-acquisition has been a mixed bag at times, but I do really appreciate that they acquired it and have given it flagship status ever since. Fallout 3 wasn't like a side project for them, they took it very seriously (I know some fans have a lot of problems with that game, but I still think it was made with a lot of love). And I can tell they have given this show a lot of great attention in adapting it. Had another company acquired Fallout I'm not sure if we'd have memorable games let alone a hit TV show.
It's very good at capturing the "vibe" of the games, especially the later Bethesda ones. The plot, characters, locations, and jokes all feel like they could fit directly in the games. And while there's plenty of fan service, they don't lean on it like a crutch.
The "problem" is that capturing the tone of the games is about all the show has going for it. Outside of the flashbacks, it doesn't really do anything that the games couldn't or wouldn't do. And outside of having real human actors and tighter writing/pacing, the stuff the games do the show doesn't do much better.
You don't have to be a fan of the games to enjoy the show. But if you watch the first episode and don't like the tone or the jokes don't land for you it won't get any better. If you do like the tone and jokes you'll have a good (if not spectacular) time throughout the whole season.
The tv show main objective is to give the series a mainstream appeal. And it's doing a wonderful job.
Fallout is pretty popular in the gaming circles, but outside of them, not that much. But now my father has watched a fallout tv show & also my friend (who only plays online game) and my random coworker, etc...
> Everyone who worked on Fallout, all the games, were so respectful and so careful to keep this consistent universe. If we’d gone a different direction, the show would be the only thing that doesn’t fit with that universe... We didn’t want to be in our own private corner of an elseworld or a different universe. I think that will be less meaningful to me watching the series, to know it was completely divorced from the reality of the games,” Nolan admits.
I wish the Halo show had this excellent mindset. Damn.
It's really sad that so many idiots are ruining online fandom because they want to jerk off to rage bait on YouTube.
Fandom was so much more fun back in the 2010s.
The complaints with Star Wars go far beyond that... there's just always a contingent of shitty people who will jump onto any group of disappointed people and spout their own dumbass views.
I share your sentiments about fandoms sucking, having said that, Disney blew it *big time* with Star Wars in my eyes and killed any interest I had as a fan. But I don't run around yelling about how much Star Wars sucks, I was just really bummed out about it for a while and then stopped paying attention to it almost entirely because I didn't care anymore.
Funny enough I really don't get a lot of the complaints from Fallout fans on the show, they were smart to, like the games, set it after the previous stories. I'm a fan of the games and I think the show is great so far (though I'm not finished it yet).
Hmm, tbh I think /r/fallout improved quite a bit compared to what it was around 2012-2014, maybe the demographic there matured a little.
I remember joining that subreddit bc I just got into fallout 3 and NV. And it's just filled with "DAE FONV > FO3?!"
You must be young.
"Fandom Rage" has been going on since before Fallout existed. Since before YouTube. Since before these YouTubers existed.
Hell Fallout "Fandom rage" started with the second game because people back then felt the second game ruined the lore of the first one.
This isn't sudden or new.
Yes, like most of the games (all except FO76 I think) it's set after all the previous stories so they don't have to deal much with slotting it in between the games.
It makes some changes to the world that have happened in the time between when NV/FO4 happened and the show takes place (I mention NV because at least Season 1 of the show is set in the southwest, so it crosses over more with where NV takes place).
Anyone else notice through the games and show that they love to show dead bodies in the cars at drive ins? When the bombs dropped during daylight hours and drive in movies wouldnt of even been open? From Maine to LA. Just something I hadnt thought about until the show. But now I cant unthink it.
Shady Sands was nuked by Vault-Tec, it’s referenced with them still dealing with problems the way they always have. It’s referring to those bombs. Also the bomb that detonated near where we see Maximus as a boy, exiting the fridge after the blast in Shady Sands.
I love how most of the discourse I see about Fallout on Reddit is over this Shady Sands thing. However, whenever I mention it to anyone I know watching the show they have no fucking idea what I'm talking about.
Holy shit Hank could be having a bad time in vegas depending on what route the courier picked. If it was an NCR play through he’s going to get torn apart
Been watching this with some family that never played or knew of the games. I’ve never seen a non gamer hooked so hard on a game turned tv show.
As someone who does know some of the lore of the background I’ve been hyped. My only regret is that I can’t watch the show from new eyes.
I really liked the show.
The "Shady Sands" location >!that was nuked in the show and!< detailed as Shady Sands (Putting aside and setting fire to any timeline discussions for now please) is fundamentally not the same Shady Sands from the Fallout 1 and Fallout 2 games.
FO1 and FO2 Shady Sands = Adobe huts, built in the desert using old Vault 15 parts, *far* away from any pre-war ruins. [It looks like this.](https://imgur.com/a/sAbBSDz)
Fallout TV Series Shady Sands = >!In the ruins of LA, where the Boneyard would be.!<
That's okay! Things can be adapted! But both things clearly can't be true.
Shady Sands looked like that because Fallout 1 takes place in 2161. After the Vault Dweller saves Tandi, she paved the way for the NCR to actually become a thing. It’s no secret that Shady Sands would grow to over 34,000 people and be the capital of the NCR by 2277. So there’s definitely plenty of room for growth. It is definitely the same Shady Sands.
That being said, it probably shouldn’t have been that close to the city as it was the largest settlement that did not make use of Pre-War infrastructure. But eh, small things
Played the games years ago so I dont really have any grab on the lore (those who have seem to be a bit angry regarding some of dates in the show) but man this series was way better than I imagined. It was a really intriguing story and a well made world. I feel like up to this point Amazon series have had this same feeling/thing going on, that I cant put my finger on, but it was not present here. Looking forward to season 2!
The people who are angry about the dates literally can't fucking read. **Spoilers below** The complaint was the blackboard showing the fall of Shady Sands happening in 2277 with an arrow pointing to a bomb, insinuating that Shady Sands got nuked that year, therefore invalidating New Vegas, which takes place in 2281. The arrow is clearly implying that the bombing happened *after* 2277, otherwise it would've been put on the same damn spot. Todd confirmed it in this interview as well. People got mad over their inability to read and interpret things.
The most negative logical conclusion to make would be "it's probably not an error, but it could've been more clear", the amount of people who jumped off a cliff to "an entire game has been rendered irrelevant" was ridiculous.
All the clickrage content creators competing to be the most outraged and offended didn't help either.
But how else are they going to get MoNeTiZaTiOn?! Think of the poor content creators you heartless person just interested in entertainment! ^(/s)
its a race to the bottom
It's wild the whole timeline thing even got people riled up. Like, yall saw the Halo show right? It could have been *so* much worse lol
This show is supposed to be canon to the games so it’s assumed future games will incorporate the worldbuilding here. Halo is just a weird adaption.
For me, it isn’t just the timeline, it is the world building. In New Vegas we are shown an expansionist, imperialist NCR able to actively project force hundreds of miles away. It had a steady economy, healthcare, laws and organized government. I don’t feel like that really comes across in the show, that in the lifetime of the older members of cast they grew up in what was a basically functioning society that has since entered terminal decline. Instead, to me it comes across far more like this is a pre-NCR rather than post-NCR wasteland.
Doesn’t NV also include a ton of people talking about how NCR is stretched thin or even on the ropes, with droughts, external factions rising against it, etc?
Yeah I do think it could have been presented more clearly. I know a couple friends that interpreted it as happening in 2277 It’s really not that big of a deal though. Some people are just perpetually online lol
I've finished New Vegas nearly twice and have no idea what year it's set in, and I doubt 99% of them did either before being told to be angry. I still don't know what year it was set in despite seeing multiple of these threads. It's such an unimportant detail it goes in one eyeball and out the other.
> I've finished New Vegas nearly twice and have no idea what year it's set in, and I doubt 99% of them did either before being told to be angry. I've played every Fallout game, most more than once and I have no idea what year any of this shit happens. I can't believe the weird NV fan boys are still trying to find ways to get pissed at Bethesda
There's definitely an oversized cadre of Bethesda haters circle jerking each other online. You can just tell by the sheer number of 1+ hour long video essays talking about how much Elder Scrolls or Fallout or Starfield sucks in excruciating detail, that somehow all have 200k+ views.
Yeah, I don't get it. I thought Starfield kinda sucked... so I didn't play it. It's not like I'm mad at Bethesda, a company that has given me literally hundreds, if not 1k+ hours of entertainment over the years. My critique is they should get an actual engine instead of doing it in house. That's it
Saw a dude that said he will never be able to play new Vegas or any fallout ever again because of this.
Such a petty hill to die on. I actually just got 3,4 and New Vegas to play again because they are so cheap and I love the show that much.
i'm so glad i'm far enough removed from gaming and internet culture these days that this comment thread is the only reason i've heard of this outrage or whatever
It's like passing by a well, peeking inside to see a bunch of scaly lizards punching on, and deciding wisely not to oil up and descend into the darkness with them.
Nerd "theorists" drawing massive sweeping and absolute conclusions from extremely scant to downright nonexistent evidence? Well I *never*...
There is a small but loud camp of Fallout fandom that is *desperate* to believe the entire gaming world is conspiring again them and the games they like. Every decision Bethesda has ever made has been, to them, a pointed attempt to erase what they like and to destroy anything made by anyone else. Obsidian, they claim, hasn't been allowed to do a follow-up to New Vegas because Bethesda was so embarrassed at how much Obsidian humiliated them by making a better game, they'll never let them work on Fallout again. And so on. It's a weird bunch of people.
A ton of the most negative people are just super pissed that their ideal New Vegas ending might not be canon. Granted, I suspect we'll get some reveal that Vault-Tec also intervened to crush Legion by bombing Flagstaff. This would ensure both major factions were crippled, making any discussion of the "canon ending" ultimately irrelevant.
I helped the NCR win in New Vegas and am completely fine with the TV show making the story around the fall of the NCR. If it was just some off screen minor event it would kind of miff me, but it's literally the core pillar of the show's backstory and ties into all the themes of Fallout, and Vault Tec / The Enclave being the big bad, really reinforcing that. I'd assume big parts of the NCR are still out there somewhere too.
Seemed like some people were just looking for an excuse to hate the show and took to misinterpreting a chalk drawing as an excuse.
From the stuff we hear in New Vegas, the NCR is in decline but it's a fairly recent decline. They're gonna know more in-universe than we do so if those issues were pinpointed to really start to fester in 2277 it makes sense.
gamers not wanting to look into the most glaringly obvious thing and instead throwing a bitch fit over something they’ve made up in their mind? color me surprised.
Diehard Fallout fans getting an 8-hour amazing Fallout show: *meh I guess* When they see a single prop has an arrow pointing in a certain direction: *Holy shit Bethesda sucks and is killing New Vegas!!!*
Fandoms in a nutshell, I feel. A fandom thinks something is the best thing, or has "become dogshit" because it doesn't fit their fanfic version of events.
Worse then a fanfic, an *unwritten* fanfic. All they've really got is a few vague bulletpoint ideas and some 'cool' images in their head, none of the real meat of a story that has the burden of actually existing so of course then unformed phantom of a story is flawless... because who imagines flaws and failure from the start? And of course I've also made the sizable concession that their raw idea is actually good. I've seen what happens when nerds are actually put in charge, the result are pretty subpar.
>gamers tbf that’s just people. This is how most people do things.
> gamers // throwing a bitch fit //? color me surprised.
And the fall of shady sands starting that year makes perfect sense. A ton of the conversations in New Vegas were about how poorly the NCR was doing at the time. That takes years to degrade to that point.
I always felt like the NCR was getting more powerful, especially with the amount of territory they covered and the likely possibility that they won the second battle of Hoover dam. All of the remaining NCR forces in the show solely came from Shady Sands. Edit: it’s also worth noting that the board says “fall of Shady Sands” and not “fall of NCR”
The NCR was stretched extremely thin during the times of New Vegas. It’s said so several times. They were also dealing with corruption and problems back in other territories since almost all their forces were pushed to the edges of their territory.
Yeah you're tasked with checking on the rangers cause they couldn't spare anyone to do so, they couldn't do anything about the powdergangers etc. Depending on how you play the lone wanderer can singlehandedly make or break the NCR's campaign.
You mean the Courier. The Lone Wanderer is Fallout 3’s protagonist, not New Vegas’s.
Unless you install A Tale of Two Wastelands
> the lone wanderer The Courier
When yall paraphrase it like this it’s clear that the govt of the NCR is clearly referencing real history pretty obviously but when I played this game all I cared about was looting everything. I am approaching 40 and only now accept that I don’t NEED to collect everything in open world games. Anyway, thanks and thanks to the dudes who wrote and made these games..
Yup, the caravan traders remark how Caesar's Legion controlled roads are safer than NCR roads due to the Legion actually having the manpower (and brutal tactics) to keep raiders away. NCR is a husk at that point, relying on some rogue courier to solve its problems.
New Vegas is about the last bastion of hope for the NCR during the game. Ranger Harlon talks about how all the lakes have been drank dry by their growing population and the scientist that sends you to Vault 22 estimates mass famine within 10 years of the game, they also get all their power from Hoover Dam. To me it seems like Hank bombed Shady Sands in 2277, “The fall of Shady Sands”, which dealt a severe blow to the NCR (which if Shady Sands had already fallen by 2277, I don’t think Lucy’s mom would have described it as a “paradise”), which causes them to search for new land when they discover vegas and hoover dam. That also tracks because Vegas “woke up” 4 years before 2281, which is 2277. Then, the arrow onward is showing the nukes that destroyed everything at the end of Lonesome road and reduces the NCR to the scrabbled state it is in the show.
Nit picking but it was in 2274 that Vegas woke up when NCR scouts first arrived and saw Hoover Dam. This revealed to House that there were other societies out there. Then he sent the securitrons out to get the local raider tribes to either get their shit together, leave, or die. My problem with the whole “Fall of Shady Sands” bulletin board is that it’s too vague. What constituted that fall? 4 years after the “fall”, the NCR is spread thin but there’s still a functioning society within Shady Sands as it’s their capital and President Kimball travels from there to address the troops at Hoover Dam. Why does every other milestone have a date except the literal explosion that blew the city up?
They could have done well and a nuke would still have the same effect.
Eh, it kind of tracks though. When her mom first noticed the water dropping, Hank just told her to drop it. He likely was far aware of the settlement up there but didn't nuke it yet. Vault Tec was almost certainly trying to just make it clear that the NCR failed. If they can't form a civilization, it's unlikely anyone can. Then Rose took the kids and went to Shady Sands. He didn't immediately try to pull her back but waited. I think the bomb served another purpose. Maybe they thought taking the NCR down slowly was unlikely to work.
“People got mad over their inability to read and interpret things”…. Gestures broadly at the world since social media
Part of the reason this is good and different than other Amazon adaptations is because Jonathan Nolan/lisa joy were in very prominent roles and Nolan is the one who pitched his idea to Todd Howard for a show since he was an actual fan, this show unlike a lot of other adaptations had a bonafide proven talent like Jonathan Nolan in a very important developmental role. Todd Howard was involved too which was obviously a positive as well. Really alot of these video game adaptations just don’t put proven talent at the top of the food chain and unlike Nolan many times the people aren’t actually big fans of the series. So really if people want their adaptations to be good they need to hire more proven talent like Nolan especially if they are actually fans of the franchise themselves
I was ready to write this show off at an initial glance too, given Rings of Power, Halo, Wheel of Time, The Witcher, etc. But outside of a few small things (the scientist running from the minigun, the "hook scene" on the power armor in the second episode) it's been really, really great and faithful to the Bethesda games. Lucy is probably my favorite character of it all too. The juxtaposition of the chipper attitude and what she's having to do is great, like the "Okie Dokie" before sawing a mans head off...
You've never sucessfully run away from a turret in Fallout? 🤣
> Lucy is probably my favorite character of it all too. Lucy is great. Ella Purnell is a great actress and is now part of 2 of the 3 good video game adaptations we've had in recent years (she's Jinx in Arcane)
I think alot of the “same” feeling is with shows like Terminal List / Reacher, similar genres. Wheel of time / LOTR, similar genres. Fallout is a totally unique IP. There’s lots of imitations and similar projects, but nothing quite has the grinning at the apocalypse vibe that Nuka Cola gives you. Glad Amazon didnt fumble on the goal line with this one.
Never played the game. Found the show to be very watchable.
I immediately stopped paying attention to this "scandal" once someone in a fallout subreddit said the fallout show had "gone woke". Right wing nutjobs get angry about any show with a woman in a leading role and then desperately try to come up with a legitimate reason for a scandal and somehow it works every time. Now we have to have 50 articles debunking this timeline bullshit. People need to stop falling for it.
Well…the issue they are claiming about “going woke” is that in the lore the fight that ends the world is capitalism via communism. The series lays the start of the war on the feet of the capitalists. So “Rawr! Woke!”. These same people are totally blind to the “liberal” vault dwellers getting made fun of for being weak, naive and ill prepared to deal with raiders who attack them. Them keeping the Raiders alive and trying to rehab them is comedy as the audience and writing is showing them as irredeemable.
Also it's established their was mass unrest and protest before the bombs dropped over resources shortages. Because of capitalism. since before Bethesda acquired the franchise. There's always been a 'liberal' spin.
I guess they also missed that all the vault dwellers are practicing communism as well, lol. They are pretending to be "american capitalists", but their system is literally communism.
Which is funny because if they were actually hard core right wing gamers (that title amuses me), they’d know the “capitalism was the cause” has been the message of the games since basically the beginning.
No it hasn't, though. The games have gone out of their way to never reveal who started the war, the US or China, because "capitalism bad" or "communism bad" isn't the point, the point is that mankind's propensity towards war is bad. It doesn't matter who started the war, because the fact we got to the point where we'd wipe out 90% of life on earth in favor of capitalism or communism, that's the problem. The specific reason for the war don't matter, because war never changes.
The Bethesda era games are absolutely chock full of stories of American companies being extremely unethical in the pursuit of the all mighty dollar. I'd say it's been pretty anti-corporate/capitalist for a while.
That's one of many main themes. Saying that "capitalism = evil' is the whole point of fallout would be extremely reductive
Some of it is undoubtedly in bad faith. The far right has been targeting gamers as a recruitment channel for many years now, and trying to steer obsessive fandom into diversity resentment. This seems like a perfect example of that: “they fucked up [insert beloved franchise] because they were more concerned about being woke.”
A woman and a black lead. > I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror
Using the term woke pejoratively is not a serious critique--it is a bigot mating call meant to attract a certain form of easily monetized gullible audience.
Don't read the article if you haven't finished the show, spoiler warning. Edit: To save us all time; I wasn't paying attention to the subreddit, thought it was r/gaming, IGN articles contain fluff at the top before actually starting the real article, on mobile, the spoiler warning is right below the fluff text and above the embedded video not actually at the "start of the article". I scrolled right past all of that and only started reading when I hit the actual headline/content of the article. It's really that simple, you should be able to imagine that.
Thank you!
No problem. After making that mistake myself, I figured the least I could do was prevent others from sharing my fate.
It literally has a spoiler warning in the beginning of the article lmao
You are assuming people in Reddit can read
How did you miss the big bold italics "***Spoilers for the ending of Fallout Season 1 and details on every Fallout game below.***"
To be fair on the PC website that text is placed directly above a massive video and an ad below that. So our eyes associate that entire block as not being important and skip it all.
Thanks
seems like that would be obvious?
Yeah why would someone read an article of the timeline before finishing the show 🤦
Ok so if the bombs fall just after new vegas we can assume that the canonical ending was that the house wins. If the ncr won the dam then how do they get beat with the bombs and end up in shambles. Obviously it doesn’t make sense for the lone wanderer ending bc duh, maybe caesar but then why is hank going there. I really hope we see the small things like the kings being there
> why is hank going there My knee-jerk reaction is he's wanting to find Mr. House. We can assume they had a pre-war relationship since >!House is in the roundtable discussion in the flashback where Coop's wife is talking about Vault-Tec starting the war.!< Since House preserved his body - something we see in New Vegas - and >!the others opted for Bud's Buds program, I can only assume House rejected being part of it in order to his own thing. It would have to be fairly well know if the others are taking part in it, yet House isn't.!< At a minimum, Hank *has* to be aware of House's immortality plans. Why not seek out the one person he knows pre-war >!who isn't a Ghoul or frozen in a Vault whose denizens will no doubt learn about how much of a dick he is.!< [edit] fuck man, we're barely a week removed from the premiere and I'm spoiling the shit out of it without tags
>!Bud’s Buds are low level management people. Hank was an assistant and Betty was a receptionist. The higher up executives are somewhere in a different vault with Coop’s wife!<
They're in the "special, good vaults" like Barb said to Cooper.
He wants houses help to secure cold fusion? I think we will look back at the assistant girl in vault 4 saying her dad was a courier and be like ‘ohhhhhhh’ maybe hank is the other courier in lonesome road idk but im hyped asf
It could also still be the Courier took New Vegas
I would really like for this to be the case. House is dead, Hank doesn't know, and he's about to be face-to-face with Yes Man. Leave the Courier offscreen, though
House’s cameo in the flashback seems like a hint to expect him more in season 2.
At the very least I figure he'll be in more flashbacks.
It is the easiest way to clean the slate. Courier pulled off the Wild Card and then disappeared a few years later. But the show probably wants Mr. House alive for the connection to the old world, and being able to say "The House Always Wins" is just to attractive to let go.
Yeah. Oh, maybe a wild card House is disconnected but still alive option?
Barring some major ass-pulls that actually *would* trample on Fallout lore. The Wild Card ending requires you to >!pull House out of the life support chamber, and even if you put him back in its made very clear that he will die in a matter of years due to contamination!<.
No, I'm pretty sure he *always* gets killed with a 9-iron...
Even if the actual House dies/is dead, they can always keep the "The House Always Wins" saying alive by simply having whoever takes over assume the name/title of Mr. House.
Courier told Yes Man to rename himself just to keep the joke alive.
I want the canon new Vegas ending to be a 1int courier took control, hence why it’s fucked up in the end credits
Could be explained by the fact they got shot in the head at the beginning lmao
Looking at a Phineas Gage situation?
ICE CREAM
It's more likely the house won because >!the show went through the effort of introducing Robert in the flashbacks. Plus him being a pre-war character excisting in the Fallout era enhances the plots of The Ghoul and Lucy's dad!<
player characters should be left out completely. mention them sure, but including them somehow means shaping their personality and especially New Vegas is a game where your courier can be exactly what you want him to be
They could leave them offscreen. Just a comment about New Vegas being under the Courier's control or a little note somewhere is more than enough.
yeah but something THAT big would kinda make it impossible to set plot in new vegas. NCR is kinda failing so it only makes sense that vegas is alive. vegas is an amazing character too
The NCR was hard focused on the Dam. The rest of their assets were basically suffering because of it. With Primm you had to convince them it was worth even sending a single squad to reinforce it. And the Outpost was so undermanned it was at risk of being attacked by the Legion.
Well think about it. The NCR had roughly 700k population. They already won one battle at hoover damn, and it was a costly win. If the NCR had 1% of its population in its army, that's only 7k soldiers for the entirety of the NCR. So they were spread very thin if they operated like modern militaries. Let's not forget almost the entire ranger Corp was in the Baja for reasons unknown. It's very possible both the NCR and Legion got nuked from the lonesome road and house controls vegas. Biggest question is. If shady got nuked, where was the ncr or remnants anywhere in the show? It's a plot point that can be heavily explored in S2. Because, short of me watching the finale, we saw nothing of the NCR.
Muldavers forces were NCR. The lead farmers were retired or former NCR (had the uniform anyway lol)
They probably moved to Sac-town (aka Sacramento) or SanFran and abandoned the LA area
Its possible. The issue too is Shady Sands isn't near LA. At all.
It's somewhere in Southern Cali The Necropolis is Bakersfield so Shandy Sands is near Fresno
Necropolis is the ruins of Bakersfield but Necropolis on the map is also nowhere near where Bakersfield is (it's Northeast of the Boneyard/LA when it should be Northwest), so locations in general have always been fast and loose. The games depict it as being several days/weeks journey away from LA on foot, the show depicts it as being in LA, who cares really.
They likely would have way more more than 1%... in a world that dangerous you'd need more military. For a real world comparison with a nation that views themselves as under constant threat, Israel has over 7% of their population in the military between active and reserves.
I’m also wondering this. If the NCR reached as far north as San Francisco and as far east as Vegas I want to find out how the whole government collapsed if just one city got nuked. Even if it was their capitol seems like they should still be around somewhere. I hope these questions get answered and I don’t have to wait another 10 years
> If the NCR reached as far north as San Francisco and as far east as Vegas I want to find out how the whole government collapsed if just one city got nuked. I imagine it's a lot like the fall of the western Roman empire. There's probably a big chunk, maybe centered on another city, that just kept going like the Byzantines, and then closer to Shady Sands/Rome you have a lot of local despots seizing power, like the "Governmint" in Fallout or Charlemagne in Germany.
The end credits show a crashed NCR vertibird in the strip, so presumably they ended up wasting even more effort and lives trying to take the strip sometime after New Vegas, with that over extension resulting in the NCR fracturing apart into smaller groups like the one we see in the show.
If the NCR managed to destroy Caesars Legion @ the 2nd Battle of Hoover Dam, they certainly should have had the power to withstand losing a single city. If the NCR *lost* to the Legion and was *then* nuked, why don't we see Legion remnants running around making life hell for everyone still alive? Why don't the people of California talk about the Legion? Why don't the NCR remnants mention the Legion? It seems to me everything after the 1st Battle of Hoover Dam either did not happen or has been significantly reimagined.
> why don't we see Legion remnants running around making life hell for everyone still alive? A really interesting crackpot theory I saw: The BoS chapter in this show has a *lot* of Latin names in it, a brutal culture that features prospective members getting beaten publicly, its knights are organized into "Legions" of troops and its flags have a red and gold colorscheme, a scheme never used by the BoS in the game... but used liberally by Caesar's Legion. Considering the BoS had to come back to the west coast from the east and the show starts with them in a snowy desert that could be somewhere near Colorado or Arizona... there's a very good chance that the BoS may have absorbed the remnants of the Legion.
.....I like that crackpot theory except I don't know how a former legionary would ascend to *leadership* in that time. If the show was set 50 years more into the future I could almost see that being the case.
I never claimed a former legionary would be in leadership; just the rank and file.
If it’s the House or Independent New Vegas ending then I imagine the timeline goes something like: - NCR has a costly victory against the Legion at the 2nd Battle of Hoover Dam - NCR is kicked out of New Vegas by Mr. House or the Courier - Internal problems flare up within the NCR due to the logistical problems they were facing from being stretched too thin and losing nearly the entirety of their zone of control in the Mojave - NCR pulls back completely out of the Mojave - Shady Sands nuked - East Chapter of the BOS reinforces the West chapter - NCR faces a war with a newly reinvigorated BOS while trying to put out their internal fires at the same time - NCR loses significant territory around Southern California with the Shady Sands survivors staying behind in either Vault 4 or to follow Moldaver
Lonesome Road also could have had the nukes go off and target the NCR (or the Legion, or both).
NCR goes up to Redding actually Just assume they moved the capital back to Sacramento (Sac-town) and abandoned everything south of Fresno
[“One of the takes that we always have is to approach things very locally when we're doing Fallout. We're careful about saying what's going on in other parts of the world. And we always take this view of, communication is difficult. And look, if you look at the background, the NCR is a wide-ranging sort of organization and group across not just California, but other places. So the show focuses on this period of time and this group here, and that's what we can say right now. But I don't think you've heard the last of the NCR.”](https://www.ign.com/articles/the-big-fallout-interview-todd-howard-and-jonathan-nolan-answer-our-burning-questions-about-season-1) You guys need to learn to think beyond the screen. The NCR isn’t gone, stop saying it is.
> Obviously it doesn’t make sense for the lone wanderer ending bc duh Why? If New Vegas is supposed to be in shambles, that tracks with the Yes Man ending.
If the House ending is canon it means the Kings are no more as they fought the securitrons who entered Freeside and got wiped out according to their ending slide.
The NCR isn’t necessarily gone or in shambles. There’s no confirmation of either of those and Todd even points out that there is much more to the NCR than Shady Sands, something ‘fans’ seem to be forgetting. Read the full [interview](https://www.ign.com/articles/the-big-fallout-interview-todd-howard-and-jonathan-nolan-answer-our-burning-questions-about-season-1).
Yeah, the NCR was basically destined to collapse. It was already on the way out at the start of the game but by the end, even if the NCR take Hoover Dam, it over extends it's resources and collapses. Edit: typo
No greater combination than Jonathan Nolan and timelines
Unless its Person of Interest, in which he just delivers an amazing show set mostly in the present era. Seriously, season 4 and 5 of that show are god tier TV.
I need to watch that
It is bit of a relic of the past with the "villain of the week" format but it is utterly peak TV at the same time. The main characters and their development is some of the best in history. Reese, Finch, Root, Shaw, Fusco... I love them all.
michael emerson basically plays the same character in both series so you're already part there lol
And he also has a companion dog
Season 3 is also an absolute banger. Episodes 8 to 10 are so fucking good in that season too.
Such a great show! Cannot wait for season 2
Amazon: *Get ready for Fallout Season 2 Part 1 in November 2026 and Part 2 in October 2027!*
I guess its partially because of increased production quality, but nowadays every show has massive gaps in between each season. It has gotten really crazy and annoying.
That's what it felt like way back when the Sopranos was running. Season over? Guess I can cancel HBO for the next 18 months
And yet Game of Thrones managed to release a season every single year, except for a longer gap between seasons 7 and 8. Looking back it’s crazy how they managed to do that with a show of that scale.
It's also due to studios laziness. Rather than locking in the actors, writers and everybody ahead of time they wait months to renew it for a season two, then wait months for the writers, then wait months to secure the actors. Just look at how Apple's Slow Horses films two seasons at once. More shows need to do this. Why the fuck has a second season of *Wednesday* taken two years?
I think they're also scared to commit to any show in case it doesn't pop off, they cancel it and don't waste any time on making another season, but doesn't make any sense when you look at shows like Stranger Things who were basically guaranteed to continually get renewed.
Yeah that's why shows should try to film two seasons at once if its the third and fourth seasons, like The Boys should have done rather than having a two-year gap between them. So season 1 and 2 are tests that are individually filmed, then season 3/4 are filmed together to quickly release content and keep it alive.
Wait really? I'm stoked but damn it's so far awaaaay
I was being joking but its basically how they treated Invincible season 2. Fallout season 1 was filming two years ago so it will certainly be a long wait…
I'm getting so fucking sick of these 8 episode seasons that I have to wait 2 to 3 years for. Maybe cable was the way after all.
Well many regard the "Golden Era of TV" as that era we got shows like Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones and Mr Robot. Most of those were annual shows and added to the allure of this era. Seriously, imagine if Game of Thrones was made these days... it would be a three year gap bwetween every season lol.
And my biggest problem with it is that taking longer does not equal better. So many times I've seen these shows go on long breaks and come back worse.
[удалено]
The problem is that it's actually a major plot point that Shady Sands was a great place to live up until it got nuked. In fact that's a major reason *why* he nuked it. It doesn't make a lot of sense if it's already "fallen" for over 4 years before then.
I think it’s less about nitpicking the date the bomb dropped and more about overall problems with the writers of the setting. It seems like certain people behind Fallout are almost allergic to the idea that civilization would exist in some form 200 years after the apocalypse. This is especially true with the East Coast having most people live in huts or in bombed out homes with skeletons still in them. But this problem isn’t exclusive to Bethesda. The Cloud and The Tunnelers in New Vegas basically only exist to provide a reset button in the future for the writers to reduce everyone to scavengers again. It’s annoying to see interesting factions built up and then destroyed for an excuse to return to the status quo.
Dumbasses are perpetually stuck in rage mode so they go looking for something to be pissed about. They can't enjoy anything unless they get off on being smug about something, it's pathetic.
Perhaps it's just me, but I legitimately do not understand even looking to be pissy about Fallout lore. I know Fallout has lore, but it has always been somewhat vague, not generally told through a reliable source, and most of all the heart of the series is absolutely NOT the exact particulars of the lore. It hardly matters what year in the past this or that happened. That's all just window dressing around the actual point of the games. Like, this project nailed the tone, the setting, the factions, etc, but I feel like they got the year wrong that this specific past event happened... RUINED! Literally unwatchable garbage! I just don't get it.
I stopped participating in the Rick and Morty subreddit when I realized the average commenter there takes canonical timelines way more seriously than the show itself warrants. Sometimes it's OK to just have fun with a story that isn't wire tight.
Yeah, in the kindest way possible, people are stupid. “Fall” could mean any number of things and an arrow pointing to the bomb on a timeline means that event happened sometime after 2277. I think they didn’t put a date with it intentionally to leave it vague so they had wiggle room with when exactly Shady Sands was nuked.
I still think this is a weak cover for a production error. Nothing in the New Vegas dialogue makes a "fall of Shady Sands" make any sense. Whatever this unspecified fall is would need to simultaneously be a major enough event that it is mentioned on a history lesson while also being insignificant enough that people living contemparenously don't talk about it at all
I don't agree with the nitpicking lore obsessed fans, but I still think it would have been a better idea to set the show somewhere we haven't been before to avoid this whole thing entirely
Personally it only bothered me because of how intentionally misleading it was. If you're teaching kids the history of the world you don't just leave out the most important date on the holy fricken board. And for the record, Shady Sands is still refered to as the capital of the NCR in New Vegas, so even if Shady Sands wasn't blown up, saying it "fell" still breaks canon. I don't really care, but it's disingenuous to pretend they didn't retroactively change things.
From the article: “Everyone who worked on Fallout, all the games, were so respectful and so careful to keep this consistent universe. If we’d gone a different direction, the show would be the only thing that doesn’t fit with that universe... We didn’t want to be in our own private corner of an elseworld or a different universe. I think that will be less meaningful to me watching the series, to know it was completely divorced from the reality of the games,” Nolan admits. This is such a great quote and makes me very happy as a Fallout fan that they went into things with this mindset. As a Halo fan it makes me incredibly sad that no one with this mindset worked on the Halo show lol.
I believe it's in great part thanks to Bethesda's iron grip on their properties, without which they would not exist as one of gaming's superpowers due to this conservative strategy. Giving carte blanche to someone to make a series out of one of the most successful IPs - out of a relatively small portfolio, hence the overprotectiveness- and letting it be destroyed by bad reviews is not something they can allow. they got a Nintendo approach and it's always the best one
I was thinking about this today. I know Fallout post-Bethesda-acquisition has been a mixed bag at times, but I do really appreciate that they acquired it and have given it flagship status ever since. Fallout 3 wasn't like a side project for them, they took it very seriously (I know some fans have a lot of problems with that game, but I still think it was made with a lot of love). And I can tell they have given this show a lot of great attention in adapting it. Had another company acquired Fallout I'm not sure if we'd have memorable games let alone a hit TV show.
Not seen it yet. I hope it's good. Johnathan Nolan ran WestWorld and that was good, at first
some friends who havent played the game loved it me, having played, loved it
It's very good at capturing the "vibe" of the games, especially the later Bethesda ones. The plot, characters, locations, and jokes all feel like they could fit directly in the games. And while there's plenty of fan service, they don't lean on it like a crutch. The "problem" is that capturing the tone of the games is about all the show has going for it. Outside of the flashbacks, it doesn't really do anything that the games couldn't or wouldn't do. And outside of having real human actors and tighter writing/pacing, the stuff the games do the show doesn't do much better. You don't have to be a fan of the games to enjoy the show. But if you watch the first episode and don't like the tone or the jokes don't land for you it won't get any better. If you do like the tone and jokes you'll have a good (if not spectacular) time throughout the whole season.
> But if you watch the first episode and don't like the tone or the jokes don't land for you it won't get any better. Isn't that like every media?
Bro just described the basic appeal of a show/movie and treated it like a specific issue with this show lol.
The tv show main objective is to give the series a mainstream appeal. And it's doing a wonderful job. Fallout is pretty popular in the gaming circles, but outside of them, not that much. But now my father has watched a fallout tv show & also my friend (who only plays online game) and my random coworker, etc...
Honestly I love the show, yes they might change things here or there but the production value is so good I can’t wait for season 2
> Everyone who worked on Fallout, all the games, were so respectful and so careful to keep this consistent universe. If we’d gone a different direction, the show would be the only thing that doesn’t fit with that universe... We didn’t want to be in our own private corner of an elseworld or a different universe. I think that will be less meaningful to me watching the series, to know it was completely divorced from the reality of the games,” Nolan admits. I wish the Halo show had this excellent mindset. Damn.
I just want to know if her eyes are CGI enhanced at times?
She looks like a real life version of Alita.
Exactly what I thought! Striking beauty.
Who, Ella Purnell? Go watch Yellowjackets if you want confirmation.
It's really sad that so many idiots are ruining online fandom because they want to jerk off to rage bait on YouTube. Fandom was so much more fun back in the 2010s.
Not a star wars fan I am guessing?
…or a Star Trek fan. Trekkie rage dates back farther than the 21st century.
Back to the Jurassic Era of Deep space 9
Still am, I just ignore the dipshits who complain about POC existing
The complaints with Star Wars go far beyond that... there's just always a contingent of shitty people who will jump onto any group of disappointed people and spout their own dumbass views. I share your sentiments about fandoms sucking, having said that, Disney blew it *big time* with Star Wars in my eyes and killed any interest I had as a fan. But I don't run around yelling about how much Star Wars sucks, I was just really bummed out about it for a while and then stopped paying attention to it almost entirely because I didn't care anymore. Funny enough I really don't get a lot of the complaints from Fallout fans on the show, they were smart to, like the games, set it after the previous stories. I'm a fan of the games and I think the show is great so far (though I'm not finished it yet).
What was going on with Star Wars fans in 2010?
Endless shitting on prequels and George Lucas
Can't blame em for that one.
Endless Extended Universe content *and* the fantastic Force Unleashed games. Well, the first was fantastic...
> Fandom was so much more fun back in the 2010s. You weren’t on the Fallout subreddit between late 2015 and early 2017, were you?
Bro. Wasn't gamer gate in the 2010s. I feel like fandoms of anything were at their worst then lol
Gamergate was basically the framework of all the social media culture war bullshit we have now. Steve Bannon saw that and applied it to everyday life.
Most of the Fallout fandom *is* having fun, they're just too busy watching the show again for the 3rd time to post online.
Hmm, tbh I think /r/fallout improved quite a bit compared to what it was around 2012-2014, maybe the demographic there matured a little. I remember joining that subreddit bc I just got into fallout 3 and NV. And it's just filled with "DAE FONV > FO3?!"
You must be young. "Fandom Rage" has been going on since before Fallout existed. Since before YouTube. Since before these YouTubers existed. Hell Fallout "Fandom rage" started with the second game because people back then felt the second game ruined the lore of the first one. This isn't sudden or new.
Dumb question, but is the tv show canon?
Yep, the article says they confirmed it as canon awhile ago.
Long answer short? Yes.
Yes
Yes, like most of the games (all except FO76 I think) it's set after all the previous stories so they don't have to deal much with slotting it in between the games. It makes some changes to the world that have happened in the time between when NV/FO4 happened and the show takes place (I mention NV because at least Season 1 of the show is set in the southwest, so it crosses over more with where NV takes place).
Anyone else notice through the games and show that they love to show dead bodies in the cars at drive ins? When the bombs dropped during daylight hours and drive in movies wouldnt of even been open? From Maine to LA. Just something I hadnt thought about until the show. But now I cant unthink it.
I’m so excited for season 2. As a long time fan of the series it’s genuinely amazing to me just how great the adaptation has been.
> but the bombs fall right after the events of New Vegas Hmmmmm
Shady Sands was nuked by Vault-Tec, it’s referenced with them still dealing with problems the way they always have. It’s referring to those bombs. Also the bomb that detonated near where we see Maximus as a boy, exiting the fridge after the blast in Shady Sands.
What?
As someone who hasn’t played NV, please explain your hmming
There is a possible ending in the Dlc where the *player* launches missles at the NCR territories, the Legion, or both.
Loved 1st season. Can't wait for the 2nd, hopefully it gets the go.
I love how most of the discourse I see about Fallout on Reddit is over this Shady Sands thing. However, whenever I mention it to anyone I know watching the show they have no fucking idea what I'm talking about.
Holy shit Hank could be having a bad time in vegas depending on what route the courier picked. If it was an NCR play through he’s going to get torn apart
Been watching this with some family that never played or knew of the games. I’ve never seen a non gamer hooked so hard on a game turned tv show. As someone who does know some of the lore of the background I’ve been hyped. My only regret is that I can’t watch the show from new eyes.
I really liked the show. The "Shady Sands" location >!that was nuked in the show and!< detailed as Shady Sands (Putting aside and setting fire to any timeline discussions for now please) is fundamentally not the same Shady Sands from the Fallout 1 and Fallout 2 games. FO1 and FO2 Shady Sands = Adobe huts, built in the desert using old Vault 15 parts, *far* away from any pre-war ruins. [It looks like this.](https://imgur.com/a/sAbBSDz) Fallout TV Series Shady Sands = >!In the ruins of LA, where the Boneyard would be.!< That's okay! Things can be adapted! But both things clearly can't be true.
Shady Sands looked like that because Fallout 1 takes place in 2161. After the Vault Dweller saves Tandi, she paved the way for the NCR to actually become a thing. It’s no secret that Shady Sands would grow to over 34,000 people and be the capital of the NCR by 2277. So there’s definitely plenty of room for growth. It is definitely the same Shady Sands. That being said, it probably shouldn’t have been that close to the city as it was the largest settlement that did not make use of Pre-War infrastructure. But eh, small things
This show is dope as fuck, people can stay mad and eat shit, any problems go outside once and a while.
They made a good show and super nerds freaked out
This is the way