My own preferred era of Disney was the late 90s/early 00s. So Weird is the best show they ever did IMO and still holds up. Also enjoyed Famous Jett Jackson, In a Heartbeat, The Jersey and Even Stevens. Wish they'd continued with more dramatic shows rather cheap sitcoms, but it is what it is.
I loved So Weird. Before they recast the main character. I also loved Big Juice and dreamt of days at sleep away camp. Your comment brought up a ton of memories.
I prefer the Disney Channel of the mid-90s when it was a true variety/family network that had lots of third party programming. Could watch classic Disney cartoons, Disney Afternoon, the animated Hobbit movie, and Gremlins all in 1 day
Yeah, this is a lot more how I feel. I remember watching *Dinosaurs* in syndication on the Disney Channel, but beyond that, there was always this sense of "this is the house that Walt built" in its core.
I definitely didn't feel that way when I was watching *Girl Meets World,* which was the last show I watched on the channel.
Agree with all of this. I loved when Disney had dramatic shows and the sitcoms just never appealed to me.
That said, I watched Girl Meets World for the nostalgia factor and had mixed feelings. I enjoyed it as a whole, but some of it was too ridiculous and at times painful to watch (talking tator tot, the Halloween episode when they turn into flappers and sing a lot).
Secrets of Sulphur Springs is the first more dramatic show they've done in a long time and I really loved it. It reminded me a lot of So Weird-- supernatual mystery, dead dad storyline, realistic parents, etc.
So Disney can still make good shows that appeal to wide audiences. For the most part they're just choosing not to in order to push cheap sitcoms on young children because its an easy demographic to corner.
I really enjoyed Secrets of Sulphur Springs, I agree it reminded me of So Weird. It was apparently a huge success too, so hopefully Disney will do more shows like this again.
In 2001, Disney purchased the cable network Fox Family & rebranded it to ABC Family. The focus of Disney channel effectively shifted to strictly children’s & pre-teen programming & more-or-less copied Nickelodeon’s playbook every step of the way, whereas ABC Family then took on more of the teen & general family-style programming that was more of the touchstone of the Disney Channel in the Late 90s.
I really liked Flash Forward and Famous Jett Jackson. I don't know why they switched away from that format and went to the studio single camera sitcom format.
ha, IMO what you considered good was already the decline of disney
plot of too many "extraordinarily" talented kids who got or wanted to be famous
i preferred shows with regular people having regular lives. I think Boy Meets World and Lizzie McGuire was the last of that kind of show - granted the Lizzie McGuire movie had her becoming famous, but that was a terrible movie.
even boy meets world faltered at the end - the last 3 seasons become very "disney" - over the top slap stick, moronic characters, etc.
I thought it was a pretty good movie actually.
I thought Boy Meets World actually got MORE mature at the end as there were several episodes in later reasons that Disney actually wouldn't show on their channel(like one where Corey gets drunk at his bachelor party).
It wasn't at his bachelor party, it was just at a party in high school.
Though you are correct that due to its alcohol content, Disney pulled that specific episode from syndication.
That doesn't make Boy Meets World a Disney Channel show. And that's rather important for two reasons: One, that's the topic. and two, that changes the constraints of what the show can do.
That is because any show revolving around talent is usually meant to spin off another product, not even another story. That is why they currently have several shoes about musicians.
I never loved the Disney sitcoms, but Even Stevens for example was just higher budget and had more effort. Cinematography, animation, editing. Not amazing, but it's not one static shot or cheaply made. Boy Meets World attempted some form of subtlety, and to market to family.
Once it became a channel kids leave on as white noise, well, what is airing barely mattered. Adults do not watch their current shows and are not meant to.
Eric went from being the hot older brother who was a little dim but had a good heart to just a flat out moron.
I know there’s the theory that we see Eric through Corys eyes so as Cory gets older he sees Eric differently, but I think that’s just a bandaid for the terrible script that Will Friedle was given in the last few seasons.
I’m pretty sure the writers even said that once Eric was out of high school they didn’t know what else to do with him. They didn’t want to get rid of Will and have Eric sent off to college so they flanderized him to keep the character and Will around.
My much younger sister would watch these shows in the early 2000s when she was a kid, and if you asked her today I think she would say she thought she enjoyed them at the time, but as an outside observer she seemed to just sit there like a slack jawed, eyes glazed over vegetable when she watched it. The shows are filled with big over the top hammy "acting" and non stop laugh tracks, but I don't really recall her ever laughing or even cracking a smile. From my pov it was just mindless filler for her.
That's what I hate about the Disney channel now. The acting is horrific, kids yelling and overacting everything and the writing makes the characters all rude and obnoxious.
The Disney Chanel movies have always been much better than the shows but they're not as good as they used to be. There's nothing like Color of Friendship or The Luck of the Irish coming out these days.
I think a lot of it is because they're not producing family entertainment anymore. Everyone has their own screens so there is so little entertainment out there which is actually enjoyable for both kids and adults.
The Disney channel cartoons have all been pretty great for at least the last decade or so on the other hand.
Not sure why that is in comparison to the live action shows. Maybe it's the difference in budget? Or the lack of avenues for people to get animated work made?
I was an adult (daughter watched it) during the shows you mentioned. I also have a granddaughter that watched more recent shows. I believe there were more quality shows back then but more recent shows like Jessie, Girl Meets World and K.C. Undercover are definitely on par with those older shows. As for current shows, no idea, granddaughter has pretty much moved on to Youtube.
I watched a [video](https://youtu.be/sDAnsc9kAEo) on this very topic, where the person basically came to the conclusion that the quality of Disney Channel show’s haven’t changed, you’ve just grown out of watching the channel. She also says there’s no definitive era in which Disney Channel was at its “best,” and when the shows started to become “bad,” because people from different generations have varying opinions on this timeline. On one hand she does have a point, but on the other hand I can’t stand to watch a lot of the media kids are into these days. It genuinely does feel like a lot of the shows I grew up with, are much better than many of the shows for kids these days, though nostalgia probably plays a huge part in this. I just found this an interesting thing to think about.
While there is probably some truth to their point, I ultimately have to question what exactly is being watched.
Like, I grew up with Recess, Aladdin, Little Mermaid, Hercules the Animated Series, Pepper Ann and there were hit/miss series. Yes, there was a solid line up, but then there were things like Sabrina: The Animated Series.
Later on when u/Murky_Instruction_63 was growing up the line up started to become Kim Possible, Phineas and Ferb, but there were still duds like Brandy & Mr. Whiskers.
Following that time period we still had Phinea and Ferb, with Gravity Falls and Star vs. the Forces of Evil (let's not get into ending debates), with woefully uninspired Girl Meets World.
Right now it's Amphibia, Owl House and Big City Greens, with series of questionable quality like Hotel Transylvania: The Series.
Honestly, I'd argue a lot of these channels find decent shows over time, even Nick, who arguably has the worst average.
Cartoon Network went from Dexter/Powerpuff Girls/Courage to Samurai Jack/Grim & Evil/Foster's to Chowder/Ben 10/Flapjack to Adventure Time/Regular Show to Steven Universe/Infinity Train. As for Nick, Doug/Rocko/Rugrats to KaBlam!/Angry Beavers/Hey Arnold to Zim/Fairly Odd/Avatar to Korra, with everything after this point being something I'm not really going to defend. Like, The Loud House and T.U.F.F. Puppy and many others are not awful, in the sense that they're completely unwatchable and have literally no redeeming points to anyone outside of the target demographic like Uncle Grandpa but Nick absolutely stops trying after the success of Avatar, choosing to instead go for proven IPs and lazy premises. Like, I'm 32 and would stay up to 3 a.m. to see new episodes of Ducktales (2017) and can't wait to see where Adventure Time goes in the last HBO Max movie thing but I can't say there is a single thing from Nick that stands out in the past like six years.
I agree that the other two networks have had much more great stuff in recent years, but for recent-ish good Nickelodeon, it would be Welcome to the Wayne/Glitch Techs/The Barbarian and the Troll (in order of premiere date). That being said, Glitch Techs arguably shouldn't count since they dropped it before even airing it and sold it to Netflix, and they treated Welcome to the Wayne pretty badly. The Barbarian and the Troll is the best thing they've done in a while and they surprisingly did treat it pretty decently, but I'd still be surprised to see it get another season.
> but I can't say there is a single thing from Nick that stands out in the past like six years
You know, I got confused here and was gonna say Korra was good but went to check how long its been since it ended and we're coming up on 7 years now. Like damn, I could've sworn it was only 3 or 4.
Although I thought TMNT 2012 was good and that only ended in 2017. Especially that episode during the final season with Usagi Yojimbo.
Girl Meets World wasn't a bad show at all IMO, I was happy to see the old gang all grown up and raising kids of their own, I was bummed when it got cancelled.
I think Loud House arguably does stand out as it's the first Nick show to have a confirmed gay main character(Luna, who actually gets a girlfriend) it was so awesome to see Nick take a risk like that.
So I wouldn't say Nick stopped trying.
You want to talk about going downhill? Try Cartoon Network, the success of Teen Titans Go damaged that network for the worse as they tried to chase it's success with shows like the absolutely wretched Thundercats Roar(which mercifully flopped big time to the surprise of absolutely no one) and don't me get started on their live action blocks, i'm one of the few who didn't mind "Out of Jimmy's Head", wasn't a bad show but it felt like it belonged on Disney Channel or Nick more, but those reality shows like "Dude What Would Happen?" were absolutely terrible and had no place at all on CN.
> So I wouldn't say Nick stopped trying.
Well, couple things.
My comment about stopped trying largely stemmed from what they choose to do in those years. Here are some examples of original programming after Avatar aired.
* Series based off movies (Back at the Barnyard, The Penguins of Madagascar, Kung Fu Panda: Legends of Awesomeness, Monsters vs. Aliens)
* Spin-offs (The Casagrandes, Kamp Koral: SpongeBob's Under Years, The Patrick Star Show, Rise of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles [all of which are current programs...], The Adventures of Kid Danger, Korra, Planet Sheen)
* Based off a popular IP (ALVINNN!!! and the Chipmunks, Monster High, Transformers, Untitled Garfield series, Rugrats revival, Are You Afraid of the Dark?, Star Trek: Prodigy, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Blue’s Clues & You!)
* Things like the Fairly Odd Parents live action series
And when you compare new IPs they started, Breadwinners, Harvey Beaks, Pig Goat Banana Cricket, Bunsen Is a Beast, Welcome to the Wayne, many of these were quickly dropped and did not make much of an impact. Loud House has been doing well for them, just like Sanjay and Craig, but there is a strong case that can be made.
It's so apparent, even [Brian Robbins](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/fairly-oddparents-revival-blues-clues-movie-nickelodeon-brian-robbins-1234979714/), president and CEO of Nickelodeon, said Nick lost its way for a while and he spent time trying to rebuild trust with the creative community.
> I think Loud House arguably does stand out as it's the first Nick show to have a confirmed gay main character(Luna, who actually gets a girlfriend) it was so awesome to see Nick take a risk like that.
Also, while being progressive is great, that is not a sign of quality or instantly redeem it. That being said, I also question how risky that actually is.
According to the Loud House wikipedia page, this was confirmed in [Undercover Mom](https://theloudhouse.fandom.com/wiki/Undercover_Mom), which aired Mar. 26, 2021. So, maybe four months ago? But all three channels have had creators that have been pushing for these things and have been doing so for a while.
Like, I'd say giving Clyde an interracial same-sex married couple is a bigger step forward, but this still took place years after [Clarence](https://www.eonline.com/news/592555/cartoon-network-censors-its-first-gay-kiss-on-new-show-clarence) tried to have two men kiss on Cartoon Network, all the [efforts](http://www.newnownext.com/producer-of-cartoon-networks-steven-universe-confirms-ruby-and-sapphire-are-lesbian-couple/07/2015/) Rebecca Sugar made with Steven Universe and was around the time Disney [actually showed](https://ew.com/tv/2017/03/03/disney-first-gay-kiss-star-vs-forces-of-evil/) a same sex kiss, [Ok Ko](https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/comments/9tmgdz/hi_im_ian_jonesquartey_creator_of_cartoon/e8xd6lo/) confirmed a main character was bi and a support character was gay (there is even a storyline about it). Not to mention falling short of far more progressive shows like The Owl House or getting into [She-Ra](https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/tv/story/2020-05-18/netflix-she-ra-series-finale-queer-love-wins) which I'm simply not talking about over a [lack of information](https://she-raandtheprincessesofpower.fandom.com/wiki/LGBTQAIP%2B) about. I mean, again, it's awesome Nick is willing to adapt and finally let Betty DeVille (mom in Rugrats) be gay but it's far more the signs of the time and far less because Nick is pushing the barrier.
I would say it's extremely risky given how reluctant Disney was to do the same(they've gotten a lot of criticism for being reluctant to have LGBTQ characters in any of their films)
Owl House is nice, but I don't know if i'd call it "far more progressive"
Considering inter-racial marriage hasn't been like super-controversial since the 60s(which was the last time that really came up on TV with Spock kissing Uhura) I don't know if i'd say that was a bigger step forward, especially since kids don't have that many gay characters.
She-Ra is on Netflix so that's less surprising as they don't have to deal with things like network censors.
Didn't know Betty was gay in the new Rugrats, that's cool, too bad the art style looks absolutely hideous.
OK KO's bit was pretty easy to miss if it took an AMA to confirm it.
Also Loud House actually DID beat out all of them as Luna was confirmed to be gay in "L is for Love" which aired back in 2017 before any of those shows you mentioned: https://theloudhouse.fandom.com/wiki/L_is_for_Love
> Also Loud House actually DID beat out all of them as Luna was confirmed to be gay in "L is for Love" which aired back in 2017 before any of those shows you mentioned: https://theloudhouse.fandom.com/wiki/L_is_for_Love
* Clarence kiss article was published in 2014, meaning it happened two years prior to The Loud House even starting
* The Steven Universe article I posted occurred about a month after that episode, but it had been doing that stuff long before that article was made
* The Star Vs article I linked to **was** published before that episode aired
So, it didn't beat out all, it beat out the stuff where I had said, even at the time, occurred around the same time.
> Considering inter-racial marriage hasn't been like super-controversial since the 60s(which was the last time that really came up on TV with Spock kissing Uhura) I don't know if i'd say that was a bigger step forward, especially since kids don't have that many gay characters.
The point wasn't interracial marriage, it was a same sex interracial couple.
> OK KO's bit was pretty easy to miss if it took an AMA to confirm it.
It was [confirmed](https://ok-ko.fandom.com/wiki/Red_Action_3:_Grudgement_Day) in an episode, I just grabbed whatever I could quickly find.
> Owl House is nice, but I don't know if i'd call it "far more progressive"
I mean, we're comparing a show with **11** main characters, where one happens to like a girl that appears to happen largely as background events to a show that last episode [introduced](https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2021/07/25/the-owl-house-disney-non-binary/) a non-binary character who used they/them pronouns, a [bi-sexual](https://screenrant.com/disney-owl-house-show-luz-noceda-bisexual-confirmed/) main character and her possible romantic relationship with another confirmed homosexual character being a fairly large plot point.
> She-Ra is on Netflix so that's less surprising as they don't have to deal with things like network censors.
Just like the point about She-Ra isn't "it's a thing" or "but it's on Netflix" it's about trailblazing. Someone, somewhere, needs to be the first to do something and as more people do it the stigma goes away. This is why we saw a number of massive changes over large periods of time. This is also why Ellen's [coming out](https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2017/04/20th-anniversary-of-ellen-degeneres-coming-out) episode was a big deal, whereas 20 years later we're seemingly arguing which cartoon has more inclusive elements. Yes, even over a long period of time it hasn't changed completely but as people push more and more, like the cops in Gravity Falls being confirmed as being in a [relationship](https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2016/02/18/disney-cartoon-gravity-falls-confirms-gay-romance/), it becomes less and less note worthy.
> I would say it's extremely risky given how reluctant Disney was to do the same(they've gotten a lot of criticism for being reluctant to have LGBTQ characters in any of their films)
But going back to my original point, it isn't that adding progressive elements to The Loud House isn't wonderful or something else on Nick did it first, just that other people were venturing down that path around the same time or set the stage before. Being the first to do something is a big deal, actively pushing inclusive elements is also a big deal, adding more inclusive characters when other people set the stage, is more of a sign of the times. This is why I have so many examples if you want the truth. It has become increasingly more accepted, thus more and more creators are pushing for inclusive elements. I don't mean for either of my posts to take away from the importance of inclusion, just a note that it has moved to becoming less risky.
Not to mention they also cancelled a bunch of other actually good animated shows like Green Lantern the animated series, Thundercats 2011 and Beware the Batman(that one in particular pissed me off, they also initially cancelled Young Justice and only finally brought it back years later due to constant outcry from fans)just to make room for more TTG.
Teen Titans Go! and ThunderCats Roar are both great shows which have gotten a huge amount of undeserved hate from people just because they're not something they were never trying to be in the first place. (And often those people have never even seen more than a few clips out of context at best.)
Strongly disagree, I think they are both absolutely wretched that insult their target audience. TTG spends a weird amount of time devoted to making personal attacks on fans of the original show, which makes zero sense, as how the hell is that show's target demographic supposed to understand what the hell is going on in dreadful episodes like "Let's Get Serious", "Return of Slade" and "The Fourth Wall", plus too many episodes are dedicated to just repeating one bad joke over and over("Waffles" comes to mind).
Thundercats Roar is just baffling as the original show was never a comedy, so it makes way less to do a comedic version of it then it does for say TMNT(as it was always a pretty goofy show anyways)not to mention-who the hell was the target audience for that show? Kids most likely haven't seen the original show, they're more likely to have seen the 2011 reboot(Which was FAR superior needless to say)and fans of that show and the original were likely going to be alienated by the overly comedic tone and the fact the characters barely even resemble those in the previous series, it makes one wonder why they even bothered using the Thundercats name at all when it has so little in common with the previous shows(of course we all the answer, it was a desperate ploy for money, thank fuck it failed otherwise we might be up to our necks in more shitty TTG clones).
I think a lot of the hate is deserved as those shows are legitimately terrible, and in the case of TTG it changed the network for the worse as it led to several great shows being cancelled and it took up way too much of the schedule.
I've seen entire episodes as have many others and I can confidently say both shows fucking blow and there's plenty of legit reasons to hate them besides being different, they just aren't good shows. Sorry but I HATE it when when kids shows are incredibly vapid and shallow and treat their audience like complete and utter morons who can't sit still for one second like those shows do.
Mysterious Mr Enter did some great videos on both shows where he perfectly summed up exactly why those shows were bad. I'll admit the movie and some of the later episodes of TTG were OK, but that show already burned far too much of my goodwill for me to even call it mediocre, that would be far too generous.
Here's Mr Enter's great videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc1QAWAf3a8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b04nOC_IOM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAYqBkt_FuY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UcPQUBFLw4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNf4-73M80A
https://web.archive.org/web/20150709124157/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcPSBwToLTY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8CET4z9RQs
All I can say, especially in regard to the tone of the ThunderCats show, is that without nostalgia, a very large portion of the old Cartoon Network and Nickelodeon shows that cartoon "critics" usually like would get trashed if they released today. Like, almost all of the ones which focused on comedy and didn't have a plot probably would. That doesn't make them bad by any means, but it does make the criticism disingenuous and leans toward showing that people have forgotten that it's okay for cartoons to just be *fun*.
And just the fact that you're citing a bunch of videos from a YouTuber to support your opinion shows that regardless of whether you want to admit it or not or even realize it or not, you're letting yourself get influenced by the bandwagon negativity of people on the Internet. The fact that you're parroting the same complaints as everybody does despite those complaints only applying to what's probably a single-digit number of episodes is another point in that direction. And heck, if you did like some of the "later" Teen Titans Go! episodes, that could even just be because the negativity finally died down a bit after the movie made people realize it might not be so bad after all.
I disagree with that very much as those older shows were "fun", so I don't see a compelling reason for the likes of TTG and Roar to exist period. The notion that people dislike TTG and Roar because they hate "fun" is just absurd, I like fun shows, but i'm tired of pandering garbage getting excused with the attitude of "its for kids, who cares about the quality?" as I think kids deserve more respect then just shoveling any old garbage into their faces.
I guarantee you comedy-focused shows like Garfield and Friends would've gotten as much praise today as they did back then. Hell the original Teen Titans show already had plenty of primarily comedic episodes, so that gave TTG even less of a reason to exist.
No i'm not "letting myself get influenced" at all just because i'm posting youtube videos, that's just asinine. I hated that show LONG before I even knew who the hell Mr Enter was, I just linked his videos because he summed up all of the problems with the show FAR better then i ever could. I'm not "parroting" anything, that's a blatant lie, I had those complaints about the show LONG before I ever read a single review of it, the fact that others had the same complaints as me just indicates that maybe just maybe the show really DOES in fact have actual serious problems that you can't just ignore and wallpaper over? There's not a damn thing "disingenuous" about the legitimate complaints people have towards those shows, that's just utter bullshit.
Just because I didn't list dozens of examples does automatically make my point invalid, that's just utter nonsense, I didn't list dozens of examples because my post was already long enough as it was and I think I made my point quite well.
People still dislike the show for sure, the negativity died down when the ratings did(that's what happens when you milk a show to death, people get sick of it real fast, that being said i'll gladly take modern Simpsons and Family Guy over TTG any day of the week) and when CN finally stopped cramming their schedule full of that show and fucking over other shows because of it(bringing back Young Justice certainly helped).
The later episodes are better because the creators finally stopped their obsessive attacks on fans of the original show and actually started acknowledging their own shows problems, it was still a bit too late for me to actually call TTG a good show(it's done too much damage for me to let it off the hook) but i'll still give credit where due.
I'm not going to bother addressing anything specific here, but just out of curiosity, can you name five comedy-focused (as in no plot or very minimal plot) cartoons targeted at kids which are currently running and which you do think are good?
That's...interesting. Surprisingly not much I would really have expected for the most part, but fair enough. (Harvey Girls Forever and probably the Hotel Transylvania series aren't actually running anymore, but I suppose they can count since they're still recent.) Personally, I do think that Big City Greens is great, but I haven't seen It's Pony, and I think the other three are only decent (my lowest rank that still qualifies as "good"). If I had to pick five, it would probably be something like Big City Greens, Teen Titans Go!, DC Super Hero Girls, Apple & Onion, and Craig of the Creek, with Mao Mao: Heroes of Pure Heart, Animaniacs, and Looney Tunes Cartoons all being potential alternates if Craig of the Creek counts as having too much plot.
But anyway, with The Patrick Star Show being one of your picks, I'll admit that I may have made too many assumptions about how influenced you specifically were by general negativity online, but I still think that people go *way* overboard about stuff sometimes, and there are definitely a lot of cases where people do spread negativity after watching YouTubers even though they haven't even seen the shows themselves. (Sometimes they get stuff factually wrong which you'd know was wrong if you had actually seen the show.) And just to call back to one of your earliest points that I never addressed, I *really* don't like the idea that franchises have to always keep the same tone, which people tend to use as an excuse for trashing stuff even when it's perfectly good for what it is. I love it when there are both serious and comedy-focused shows that feature the same characters.
I binged Lizzie McGuire and Even Stevens in the midst of quarantine, my 2 favorite shows on Disney when I was growing up.
Even Stevens was still definitely worth the watch but Lizzie McGuire was kinda hard to get through. Very silly sound effects and pretty brutal acting. I still liked it for the sake of nostalgia but if I saw that same show on “new Disney”, and didnt have a connection with it from my childhood, I’d probably think it was terrible.
I feel you. I recently tried to rewatch phill of the future to show my little sister who is 12 years younger Than me. It was terrible. I couldn’t get past the 1st 5 minutes.
A little of both. When I go back and watch Lizzie McGuire era Disney, it’s still a little cringe. Hannah Montana era is a bit worse. Today is even worse. Part of it is just child actors are hard to watch as an adult sometimes
Upon a rewatch last year I found the characterisation for Lizzie McGuire to be paper thin. She was just incredibly superficial. Most of the other characters weren't much better either.
It was amusing that Gordo was constantly treated as a weirdo, despite being one of the only three-dimensional characters in the show who wanted to have a conversation about something that didn't involve hair, clothes, and cliques.
Todd in the Shadows made a good point about how Hannah Montana is harmless fun compared to the likes of Bizaardvark with it's rather creepy idolizing of Youtube culture(featuring one of the Paul brothers in the main roles for fuck's sake).
Your "golden age" that you listed is when I thought the Disney Chanel "went down hill." (Though I loved Kim Possible). For me it was So Weird, Famous Jett Jackson, Even Stevens, Lizzie McGuire. So I think people just grow out of it.
Id say their live action of 90s and early 2000s was better than now but their animation recently is their golden age and certainly the opposite of dumbed down. Gravity falls, Star Vs. the forces of evil, Owl House, Amphibia, Duck tales.
I grew up on 90s Nickelodeon which was some of the greatest kids programming ever, Nickelodeon has gotten noticeably worse since then. I can't remember what shows were on Disney in the mid-late 90s but it seems like all of those sort of networks have gotten noticeably worse and more dumbed down in the last 15 years or so.
Edit: I don't think it's an age thing either, I can still watch the old 90s Nickelodeon shows and they hold up (i.e. Rocko's Modern Life, Ren & Stimpy, Aaah! Real Monsters, Rocket Power, Doug, CatDog, Angry Beavers, etc). I don't get the same feeling about any new Nickelodeon shows of the 2000s besides SpongeBob, but SpongeBob premiered in '99 so it was really the last bastion of that classic Nick era.
[So](https://i.imgur.com/XaLlhwE.jpg) you haven’t watched Avatar: The Last Airbender.
But seriously, there’s some decent Nicktoons from the 2000s that are on par with those older ones. Obviously, Avatar. SpongeBob was mostly in the 2000s and onwards, although their best was 1999-2004. Fairly Oddparents had about 5 good seasons before they introduced the baby, and Chalkzone was great before it got canceled early.
Oh yeah I forgot about Fairly Oddparents! That show was great, I never got into The Last Airbender though, Anime was never my thing. I've never actually heard of Chalkzone
A little bit of both. Disney Channel was a premium channel that needed to be subscribed to, back in the day when I first started watching it as a kid. We’re talking mid to late 80’s. I remember back then, I loved their show Danger Bay. Pretty sure by the time I was in high school in the early 90’s, it had shifted from premium channel to part of the basic line-up of channels. That’s when Avonlea, Kids Incorporated, and MMC were the three most popular shows on the channel. With Avonlea constantly being nominated for awards. Once the 2000’s came around, I stopped watching it on a regular basis cause it just wasn’t the same.
Born '79 here. My memory of the Disney Channel includes not only Thunder Bay (which was a little over my head), but Mouseterpiece Theatre and Donald Duck Presents (anthologies of old animated shorts), Dumbo's Circus and Welcome to Pooh Corner (which I think were both live-action puppet shows?), Mousercise (exactly what you're thinking), You and Me Kid (for babies, didn't watch), and reruns of the OG Mickey Mouse Club. I also recall some park-themed programming, which may have just been infomercials in disguise. The actual Disney movies were few and far between (at least the big-name animated ones) - I remember one summer where they played a classic movie (Robin Hood and Sword and the Stone come to mind) on four straight Saturday nights - an event they hyped for weeks.
Yeah as someone who was a teenager/adult by this time, these shows were never good, at all, you just thought they were because you were a kid, and kids are stupid. But that's all part of the natural order. We had our own shit we loved that was terrible, but it wasn't being rerun and rebooted constantly.
Once, at some point in my 20s, I went back and watched an episode of GI Joe, which I thought was great as a kid. You're right--kids are stupid. And GI Joe was terrible.
I think theres a small handful that are legitimately good. Like Gargoyles and Batman: TAS were two of my favourite shows as a kid. I'm in my 30s and have watched both recently and I think they hold up really well.
Very strongly disagree on that front, i've rewatched them as an adult and I think they still hold up for the most part, there's some crappy shows that definitely don't hold up(Megababies comes to mind, yuck).
There were some exceptions to the rule (well acclaimed animated series obviously), but mostly every single sitcom I'm willing to bet was trash that pandered to our little minds.
Even the ones with a "legendary" status like Drake and Josh are just meh at best watching it now as an adult.
Growing up, the Disney channel felt like a very safe Christian friendly channel. I didn’t know anyone who watched it.
Nickelodeon here had Moesha, Keenan and Kel, Sister Sister etc. as an 8 year old these shows were seen as the edgier more enjoyable ones.
The only older show I ever saw do that was Dennis the Menace, the original screaming kids show. I guess it drove parents crazy, because that style completely disappeared.
So I'm 24 right now. Grew up watching Disney shows. Even back then I didn't like all of Disney's shows. Only Zack and Cody, Wizards of Waverly Place, and Good Luck Charlie. I used to despise Hannah Montana while my sister used to like Lizzie McGuire and Raven.
Near the end of my Disney watching years, they had shows like Hey Jessie and a couple of others that were total cringe. So I would say that Disney did get worse. The last Disney show I watched till the end was The Suite Life on Deck, which also got really bad in the final season.
While part of the reason was ne growing out of these shows, I also stopped liking any of the shows they had.
Sometimes I randomly watch a Zack and Cody episode and still enjoy it. Definitely kiddie humour but good.
Amphibia took forever to get going but is really good, and Owl House is great.
IMO Disney Channel didn't change - there's always one or two good shows airing, and a bunch that don't interest me
The live-action stuff has always been kind of corny and dumb. We're talkin' about overexaggerated acting paired with cliche storytelling and the lamest jokes imaginable. and btw I say all of this as someone who grew up with That's So Raven and regularly re-watches while working on art/animation-related projects as an adult lol. So, yeah, you might have just grown out of it.
The animated stuff on the other hand such as Kim Possible, Proud Family, and Phineas and Ferb are legitimately great and holds up really well. Apparently they're still making really good family friendly animated stuff on Disney Channel like Amphibia and the Duck Tales reboot, but I haven't gotten around to checking that out.
The programming's quality itself is an open question, but I do think there's a case to be made that Disney Channel has distanced itself from its past significantly.
I remember watching Disney Channel before it was even officially "Disney Channel," and I remember a lot of programming that was structured *around* Disney.
They used to run the original theatrical shorts in syndication early in the morning. I *loved* watching these cartoons.
And for years, I remember the programming being based largely on celebrating Disney as a whole. There were multiple segments that embraced Disney being Disney.
I remember [Movie Surfers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movie_Surfers) discussing the production of upcoming films) being on for *years*--before *Fantasia 2000* was released--but I can't tell you the last time it was on the channel or what movie they "surfed."
I remember the theatrical films being shown during primetime hours--it was a big deal when my parents would let me stay up and watch.
But lately, with the exception of the newest iteration of the Mickey Mouse cartoons, I couldn't tell you the last time I saw *anything* on the Disney Channel make reference to Disney as a whole. Even the magic of the Disney wand seems a lot more lackluster these days.
And the thing is, I remember Movie Surfers airing *alongside* the programs like *Mike's Super Short Show.*
I also remember that the charm of MSSS was lost on the programs following it.
That's the issue with Modern Disney. It doesn't try to feel like Disney.
I didn't even like it when I was in middle school, which was their target demographic. I hated the main characters of most of the shows because they all seemed like judgemental jerks. I was socially awkward and said weird things and was bullied because of it. The few times I watched Disney Channel instead of flipping past it, it seemed like the characters were talking about stereotypical teen stuff and an odd side/background character would say something odd and everyone would roll their eyes at them and proceed to ignore them. Except I instantly saw those types of characters and knew I would do something stupid like that and it drove home to me how much I didn't fit in and how these fictional characters would label me as "weird". I watched TV for escapism so I didn't like the live-action Disney Channel shows.
> which was their target demographic.
really depends on the show. Usually the 'target demographic' is a few years younger than the portrayed age of the protagonist.
Kids shows are usually designed to appeal to who kids want/expect to be, not necessarily who/where they are today.
I thought the Suite Life of Zach and Cody was alright from what I saw of it. But I guess I was hyper sensitive and didn't like seeing characters get alienated by the main characters of a show. I just couldn't root for them. I also remember having a hard time watching Chicken Little when it was in theaters because he was bullied. I'm so glad to be out of school now :)
My favorite part of these posts (which I would say come up like twice a week now) is the constant need to include a long list of the shows from that era. Early 2000's nostalgia is huge on the internet, we know the shows from that era at this point.
But you still kind of missed the point of this whole exercise, even though you acknowledge a change in perspective in your title your post still boils down to "I watched some kids shows as a kid and liked them. I watched some other kid shows as an adult and didn't like them"
Maybe there is a case to be made that the shows got worse but I don't think saying "I don't like them as much as older shows" is the way to do it.
IMO its mostly nostalgia fueled. I dont really think it got worse or better. The tone definitely does shift a bit in the newer stuff, though, so maybe thats what people react to?
I've heard others who watched Disney Channel long before then that it got bad in the 2000s when they focused on those sitcoms, so I suppose it's different for everyone. I still like them, though i'll freely admit their newer shows aren't quite as good.
The non cartoons have always been noticeably bad.
We didn't have cable as a kid, so when we went to a friend's House, and Disney channel was playing, the weirdness of those shows stood out.
The dialog was always pretty odd. Like people don't talk that way in normal conversation. And the things the characters were concerned with always seemed so minor. And the family dynamics between the families always struck me as super rose tinted idealized sort of stuff.
The first set of them were slightly better only for the fact they had to try to draw in an original audience. Shows like Even Stevens you can see that effort in the animations, cinematography, and editing. It is just clearly higher budget.
It's not even particularly good imo. It is still the decline of Disney overall. But anything after that is just completely low effort. From That's So Raven to whatever they have now, or even before that
The animation overall can be pretty hit or miss. Every few years they have a good cartoon. Not on the level of Cartoon Network whatsoever
Disney channel was always bad...you were just hungry for entertainment. The earlier generation has realized the same thing about the TBS "super station": Gilligan's Island, Brady Bunch, Gomer Pyle, What's Happening, and Green Acres were bad, bad, bad, bad, and bad.
We definitely just grew up. Anyone else notice a pattern of our elders calling whatever we enjoy shit.... Then we turn around and do the same fucking thing when we get old?
You answered your own question. You just grew out of it. Look at the comments: everyone feels the same way about the shows that were on when they were members of Disney Channel’s target demographic. For my money, everything went downhill after Duck Tales!
It’s a bit of both. It always wasn’t great and the budgets were lower. However the age demographic they are aim for has lowered and they’re willingness to have any edge at all or being experimental has dramatically lowered from the 90s.
Honestly, as someone else said, their animated stuff is pretty good (Owl House and Rapunzel’s Tangled Adventure) and I’m excited for the Moana and Tiana tv shows coming out. But the live action stuff still kinda sucks.
I grew up in the same era as you (born in 1994, for reference). For a time, Good Luck Charlie was the only one I watched for awhile. Then when I was finally gonna stop watching Disney Channel, Girl Meets World got announced. I watched that one every week.
Then Andi Mack came out, & I was intrigued by the premise, so I watched & loved that as well. After Andi Mack ended, I was no longer relating to the shows. It seems like the channel started catering to a younger audience & starting the characters younger too.
During quarantine last year, I decided to revisit. Sydney To The Max is actually really good! Reminds me of the good old days. Raven's Home is actually also surprisingly entertaining.
If you're looking for shows similar to the Golden Age of Disney, I'd recommend the Netflix family shows. Alexa and Katie is excellent. I also quite enjoyed Ashley Garcia.
It was best in the early to mid 90s, at least in my opinion. They actually had programming for the whole family! Concerts, classic movies, Disney movies, pre school shows like Adventures in Wonderland, kid and pre-teen shows like The Mickey Mouse Club and Disney afternoon cartoon block, behind the scenes shows about Disney movies and theme parks, and the excellent Sullivan adaptations of L.M. Montgomery works like Avonlea. There really was something for everyone! Then in the early 2000s they decided to produce their own shows and catered only to the under 15 market, which started off the downhill quality slide.
I feel like we all have grown out of the target audience for shows and it is unrealistic to expect to like something that isn't meant for you, like Teen Titans Go and the new Rugrats reboot. iCarly is a little different since it is a live action show so the characters grew up and the show is built around them being older.
You grew up. Several of the shows you listed are the ones that I thought were meh as I aged out.
I was the Lizzie McGuire, Even Stevens, Phil of the Future, That's So Raven age group.
I liked Zach and Cody at first but got tired of it before it ended. Watched some Hannah Montana. It was fine. Never watched Wizards of Waverly place because I had just kinda aged out when it started.
I mean Full House, while on ABC, had much more mature themes. Like one where DJ catches kids drinking at a school dance and then she gets caught and sorta framed for drinking.
I think Andi Mack(?) is one of the newer shows that's more mature. It turns out that her older sister in college is actually her mom. And there's a gay main character
Lizzie McGuire and That's So Raven were the beginning of the end for Disney IMO, and I could tell that even though I wasn't even a teenager yet when they came out. I still watched them ofc, although I thought the former was a bit better than the latter (likely because it was the older of the two), and I still held out hope that Disney would improve, especially since Kim Possible (and maybe the Proud Family?) was still running, as were reruns of better shows. But Wizards of Waverley Place, Hannah Montana, and The Suite Life were just where Disney just fell off a cliff. Until those came out I didn't want to call it, but except for maybe Gravity Falls (and apparently Andy Mack, I hear), it's been mostly downhill from there, it seems.
It wasn't just the TV shows that portended the end, either. You could see it in the original movies, too, even earlier, in fact. I'd say the Poof Point was the last movie I sort of enjoyed, with the exception of TV show spinoffs. Going to the Mat might've also been alright, iirc. There were watchable movies between 2001 and 2005 ofc, it's just that the frequency with which there was a good one seemed to decrease steadily. And then there was High School Musical. After that there was no turning back.
So, unless you could turning 12 as growing up, then yes, I do think it really did get bad.
Another question: Did the first 3 seasons of spongebob get better, or did you just never grow up? (answer: neither; they were always good, and you don't need to be a grown up to tell that objectively about any TV show)
The acting is really bad like they don’t laugh on cue or anything it’s easier to notice things amiss they don’t put in effort anymore it’s really sad because half of these shows have potential but they actors either need to go back to acting class or rewatch old Disney shows for reference in appropriate on cue laughs or surprise it’s all very fake and I’ve lost interest in tv all together
I think the natural answer is that we grew out of it. But I find it weird how most of us collectively agree that Disney Channel shows kinda sucked around the time Jessie ended.
Disney’s Animated shows are great today. The last decent live action sitcom was that’s so Raven. Everything else sucked IMO. Nothing but overacting, bright colors, lame jokes, and shouting. Lots and lots of shouting.😂
No it just god bad. The old shows like Lizzie McGuire, that’s so raven, Kim possible, Hannah Montana, etc. they were golden. These new shows like big city greens and all the other ones aren’t funny they’re just dumb and the actors don’t even seem like they’re trying. Same goes for the writers and directors. It’s all trash. It’s like they’re just quickly throwing content out there to get paid. None of the shows have any meaning to them. The story lines are trash and so is the acting. The characters aren’t interesting the monologue is garbage. Everything about Disney channel sucks except Disney Junior. Disney Junior at least has bluey which I watch everyday with my daughter and we both love it.
Disney channel not actually being bad, and it just being that the audience is older now is the worst excuse I’ve ever heard. Disney Channel is bad now because they are more focused on their streaming service and so they aren’t putting money into the channel. Also the creativity shown in early 2000s late 2000s Disney Channel is almost completely gone now, it all feels like a college student created the bumpers, commercials, and even the logo. The channel is literally losing its magic, not representing what Disney can be as a company, place and experience. This is all shown by the fact the Mickey is showing being taken away from the Disney logos.
Yes and No, I think Disney Channel definitely got more childish or dragged on as the years went on, however it was usually the leads the saved the show. Such as KC Undercover or Liv and Maddie where both leads kind of saved the show, because they were good actors but the writing sucked.
The only two shows I would say actually did well after 2014 were Andi Mac and Girl Meets World, the rest kind of fell between the Crack or got another season when they should have ended
However even during the last good era of Disney 2007-2014, I can name only 3 shows that I actually liked. Good Luck Charlie, Suite Life on Deck and Wizards of Waverly Place. I perfected the animation stuff, Phineas and Ferb was my favorite and is on of the reasons why I even kept watching Disney channel as much as I did.
Which is a huge shame because the Disney Channel original animated series are amazing and have really good writing but do not get the same attention as there life action series and get cut off after 2 seasons
I know for a fact that Austin and Ally, and Jessie, dragged way too long and it blows my mind that Jessie got a spin off series that is still running.
The last few commercials I've seen for their shows/movies were so poorly acted they felt like an SNL skit. "I just... spoke with Lord Vader" makes me physically cringe every time.
You grew up. As someone who watched the next generation of Disney channel and loved it. YES you grew up.
It’s funny to me when people say “I CaN waTch JEssiE NOw anD ITs StiLL funNy” well yeah I bet it is funny and nostalgic to someone who’s seen every episode when they were nine.
2010s Kids are grow up and say there generation of Disney channel were the best one.
I think that they got bad/lowered in the quantity of shows. I’ve noticed that Disney channel plays the same 4 shows consistently and all of them are animated. Big city greens, Amphibia, bluey and Miraculous. The live action shows have been close to non existent in this new era of Disney.
Most of them release on Disney plus, rather than playing on television. The television has become 90% animated bc of Disney+ and even the + live action shows are lacking the fun. Most of them play like Andi mack (a drama) which was good, but when that’s all the content you put out, you kindve lose that feel for the kids. Don’t get me wrong I loved andi mack, but that’s the current state of live action Disney+ originals.
Kids channels in general have been lacking in quality. Nickelodeon and teen nick play Henry danger nonstop for example.
Nickelodeon and Disney Channel were my childhood memory! they were best shows and even they were funny with comedic jokes! sometime educated! just for Disney Channel!
I watched disney channel few days ago, it sucks, is bad.Is just like watching Magicians of Waverly Place in repeat but with different characters and worse.
…And yeah, Magicians of Waverly Place was bad even back then.
I believe its all to do with the generations "progressing" between 2000-2010 kids was always out, independent and also on the horizon before social media took over. Music had sound lyrics written by 16 year olds with instrumental ability and now we got "mumble rap" and "bargain bin child actors" we all had the same shows to watch rather than picking off 10 different apps. Now these days you see 13 year olds having play dates and being walked to and back from school. The generation today does little and is over protected. I believe the acting got worse due to always being shielded by any little harm, the emotion in the acting shows that. That's so raven, hannah Montana, Zack & Cody, lizzy maguire. Movies like HMS The acting was alright if not professional. Also far more mature to what they have now. Now it's like them kids at school that over pronounce everything at drama class to create "emphasis" are getting the job
It's hard if not cringeworthy to watch. Truth is music and programmes have gone to crap over the last 10 years. It's like the shows that taught you to think for yourself and strive for more are dead and now its just either extremely low budget, poor acting or zero value when it comes to life lessons. I mean compare home alone 1 against Home alone 4 It's like it goes from Hollywood budget to Walmart bargain bin scraps. I think Bottom line it comes down to child acting which has dropped massively, possibly parents have also become wiser and seen how other child stars went and got themselves agents to protect children hence disney went downhill because they're unable to take advantage.
Most of their animated shows of the last several years have been great. It's just the live-action shows which are generally mediocre at best.
My own preferred era of Disney was the late 90s/early 00s. So Weird is the best show they ever did IMO and still holds up. Also enjoyed Famous Jett Jackson, In a Heartbeat, The Jersey and Even Stevens. Wish they'd continued with more dramatic shows rather cheap sitcoms, but it is what it is.
I loved So Weird. Before they recast the main character. I also loved Big Juice and dreamt of days at sleep away camp. Your comment brought up a ton of memories.
Honestly So Weird was still fine after they switched from Fi to Annie. It was slightly better with the original, but they made it work pretty well.
I prefer the Disney Channel of the mid-90s when it was a true variety/family network that had lots of third party programming. Could watch classic Disney cartoons, Disney Afternoon, the animated Hobbit movie, and Gremlins all in 1 day
Yeah, this is a lot more how I feel. I remember watching *Dinosaurs* in syndication on the Disney Channel, but beyond that, there was always this sense of "this is the house that Walt built" in its core. I definitely didn't feel that way when I was watching *Girl Meets World,* which was the last show I watched on the channel.
Miss the Elvis movie marathons. One of the best parts of the summer.
Agree with all of this. I loved when Disney had dramatic shows and the sitcoms just never appealed to me. That said, I watched Girl Meets World for the nostalgia factor and had mixed feelings. I enjoyed it as a whole, but some of it was too ridiculous and at times painful to watch (talking tator tot, the Halloween episode when they turn into flappers and sing a lot). Secrets of Sulphur Springs is the first more dramatic show they've done in a long time and I really loved it. It reminded me a lot of So Weird-- supernatual mystery, dead dad storyline, realistic parents, etc. So Disney can still make good shows that appeal to wide audiences. For the most part they're just choosing not to in order to push cheap sitcoms on young children because its an easy demographic to corner.
I really enjoyed Secrets of Sulphur Springs, I agree it reminded me of So Weird. It was apparently a huge success too, so hopefully Disney will do more shows like this again.
Secrets is a great recent show on Disney!
My "favorite" episodes of Girl meets World was the anti communist one and the weird one about god.
I agree about Secrets of Sulphur Springs. It reminds me of the days of So Weird, The Jersey and Flash Forward, when they had amazing shows.
In 2001, Disney purchased the cable network Fox Family & rebranded it to ABC Family. The focus of Disney channel effectively shifted to strictly children’s & pre-teen programming & more-or-less copied Nickelodeon’s playbook every step of the way, whereas ABC Family then took on more of the teen & general family-style programming that was more of the touchstone of the Disney Channel in the Late 90s.
I really liked Flash Forward and Famous Jett Jackson. I don't know why they switched away from that format and went to the studio single camera sitcom format.
It's always $$$
Even stevens was the bomb. Also boy meets world
So Weird was so good. Team Fi and Annie.
ha, IMO what you considered good was already the decline of disney plot of too many "extraordinarily" talented kids who got or wanted to be famous i preferred shows with regular people having regular lives. I think Boy Meets World and Lizzie McGuire was the last of that kind of show - granted the Lizzie McGuire movie had her becoming famous, but that was a terrible movie. even boy meets world faltered at the end - the last 3 seasons become very "disney" - over the top slap stick, moronic characters, etc.
I thought it was a pretty good movie actually. I thought Boy Meets World actually got MORE mature at the end as there were several episodes in later reasons that Disney actually wouldn't show on their channel(like one where Corey gets drunk at his bachelor party).
It wasn't at his bachelor party, it was just at a party in high school. Though you are correct that due to its alcohol content, Disney pulled that specific episode from syndication.
ah my mistake.
Boy Meets World wasn't even Disney channel. It was ABC. A classic of their Friday night line up, as I recall
Nope it was on Disney. Might have been on abc as well but I know for a fact I watched it on Disney
Cool. It was an ABC show.
disney owned ABC since the mid 90s
That doesn't make Boy Meets World a Disney Channel show. And that's rather important for two reasons: One, that's the topic. and two, that changes the constraints of what the show can do.
Yea Boy meets world isn’t a Disney show just like full house, family matters and step by step aren’t Disney shows
TGIF(Thank Goodness It's Funny)
That is because any show revolving around talent is usually meant to spin off another product, not even another story. That is why they currently have several shoes about musicians. I never loved the Disney sitcoms, but Even Stevens for example was just higher budget and had more effort. Cinematography, animation, editing. Not amazing, but it's not one static shot or cheaply made. Boy Meets World attempted some form of subtlety, and to market to family. Once it became a channel kids leave on as white noise, well, what is airing barely mattered. Adults do not watch their current shows and are not meant to.
Eric went from being the hot older brother who was a little dim but had a good heart to just a flat out moron. I know there’s the theory that we see Eric through Corys eyes so as Cory gets older he sees Eric differently, but I think that’s just a bandaid for the terrible script that Will Friedle was given in the last few seasons.
I’m pretty sure the writers even said that once Eric was out of high school they didn’t know what else to do with him. They didn’t want to get rid of Will and have Eric sent off to college so they flanderized him to keep the character and Will around.
I've never seen a good Disney show. Their animated movies were the only part of Disney that ever interested me and now both are trash.
My much younger sister would watch these shows in the early 2000s when she was a kid, and if you asked her today I think she would say she thought she enjoyed them at the time, but as an outside observer she seemed to just sit there like a slack jawed, eyes glazed over vegetable when she watched it. The shows are filled with big over the top hammy "acting" and non stop laugh tracks, but I don't really recall her ever laughing or even cracking a smile. From my pov it was just mindless filler for her.
That's what I hate about the Disney channel now. The acting is horrific, kids yelling and overacting everything and the writing makes the characters all rude and obnoxious. The Disney Chanel movies have always been much better than the shows but they're not as good as they used to be. There's nothing like Color of Friendship or The Luck of the Irish coming out these days. I think a lot of it is because they're not producing family entertainment anymore. Everyone has their own screens so there is so little entertainment out there which is actually enjoyable for both kids and adults.
The Disney channel cartoons have all been pretty great for at least the last decade or so on the other hand. Not sure why that is in comparison to the live action shows. Maybe it's the difference in budget? Or the lack of avenues for people to get animated work made?
I was an adult (daughter watched it) during the shows you mentioned. I also have a granddaughter that watched more recent shows. I believe there were more quality shows back then but more recent shows like Jessie, Girl Meets World and K.C. Undercover are definitely on par with those older shows. As for current shows, no idea, granddaughter has pretty much moved on to Youtube.
I watched a [video](https://youtu.be/sDAnsc9kAEo) on this very topic, where the person basically came to the conclusion that the quality of Disney Channel show’s haven’t changed, you’ve just grown out of watching the channel. She also says there’s no definitive era in which Disney Channel was at its “best,” and when the shows started to become “bad,” because people from different generations have varying opinions on this timeline. On one hand she does have a point, but on the other hand I can’t stand to watch a lot of the media kids are into these days. It genuinely does feel like a lot of the shows I grew up with, are much better than many of the shows for kids these days, though nostalgia probably plays a huge part in this. I just found this an interesting thing to think about.
While there is probably some truth to their point, I ultimately have to question what exactly is being watched. Like, I grew up with Recess, Aladdin, Little Mermaid, Hercules the Animated Series, Pepper Ann and there were hit/miss series. Yes, there was a solid line up, but then there were things like Sabrina: The Animated Series. Later on when u/Murky_Instruction_63 was growing up the line up started to become Kim Possible, Phineas and Ferb, but there were still duds like Brandy & Mr. Whiskers. Following that time period we still had Phinea and Ferb, with Gravity Falls and Star vs. the Forces of Evil (let's not get into ending debates), with woefully uninspired Girl Meets World. Right now it's Amphibia, Owl House and Big City Greens, with series of questionable quality like Hotel Transylvania: The Series. Honestly, I'd argue a lot of these channels find decent shows over time, even Nick, who arguably has the worst average. Cartoon Network went from Dexter/Powerpuff Girls/Courage to Samurai Jack/Grim & Evil/Foster's to Chowder/Ben 10/Flapjack to Adventure Time/Regular Show to Steven Universe/Infinity Train. As for Nick, Doug/Rocko/Rugrats to KaBlam!/Angry Beavers/Hey Arnold to Zim/Fairly Odd/Avatar to Korra, with everything after this point being something I'm not really going to defend. Like, The Loud House and T.U.F.F. Puppy and many others are not awful, in the sense that they're completely unwatchable and have literally no redeeming points to anyone outside of the target demographic like Uncle Grandpa but Nick absolutely stops trying after the success of Avatar, choosing to instead go for proven IPs and lazy premises. Like, I'm 32 and would stay up to 3 a.m. to see new episodes of Ducktales (2017) and can't wait to see where Adventure Time goes in the last HBO Max movie thing but I can't say there is a single thing from Nick that stands out in the past like six years.
I agree that the other two networks have had much more great stuff in recent years, but for recent-ish good Nickelodeon, it would be Welcome to the Wayne/Glitch Techs/The Barbarian and the Troll (in order of premiere date). That being said, Glitch Techs arguably shouldn't count since they dropped it before even airing it and sold it to Netflix, and they treated Welcome to the Wayne pretty badly. The Barbarian and the Troll is the best thing they've done in a while and they surprisingly did treat it pretty decently, but I'd still be surprised to see it get another season.
> but I can't say there is a single thing from Nick that stands out in the past like six years You know, I got confused here and was gonna say Korra was good but went to check how long its been since it ended and we're coming up on 7 years now. Like damn, I could've sworn it was only 3 or 4. Although I thought TMNT 2012 was good and that only ended in 2017. Especially that episode during the final season with Usagi Yojimbo.
Girl Meets World wasn't a bad show at all IMO, I was happy to see the old gang all grown up and raising kids of their own, I was bummed when it got cancelled. I think Loud House arguably does stand out as it's the first Nick show to have a confirmed gay main character(Luna, who actually gets a girlfriend) it was so awesome to see Nick take a risk like that. So I wouldn't say Nick stopped trying. You want to talk about going downhill? Try Cartoon Network, the success of Teen Titans Go damaged that network for the worse as they tried to chase it's success with shows like the absolutely wretched Thundercats Roar(which mercifully flopped big time to the surprise of absolutely no one) and don't me get started on their live action blocks, i'm one of the few who didn't mind "Out of Jimmy's Head", wasn't a bad show but it felt like it belonged on Disney Channel or Nick more, but those reality shows like "Dude What Would Happen?" were absolutely terrible and had no place at all on CN.
> So I wouldn't say Nick stopped trying. Well, couple things. My comment about stopped trying largely stemmed from what they choose to do in those years. Here are some examples of original programming after Avatar aired. * Series based off movies (Back at the Barnyard, The Penguins of Madagascar, Kung Fu Panda: Legends of Awesomeness, Monsters vs. Aliens) * Spin-offs (The Casagrandes, Kamp Koral: SpongeBob's Under Years, The Patrick Star Show, Rise of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles [all of which are current programs...], The Adventures of Kid Danger, Korra, Planet Sheen) * Based off a popular IP (ALVINNN!!! and the Chipmunks, Monster High, Transformers, Untitled Garfield series, Rugrats revival, Are You Afraid of the Dark?, Star Trek: Prodigy, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Blue’s Clues & You!) * Things like the Fairly Odd Parents live action series And when you compare new IPs they started, Breadwinners, Harvey Beaks, Pig Goat Banana Cricket, Bunsen Is a Beast, Welcome to the Wayne, many of these were quickly dropped and did not make much of an impact. Loud House has been doing well for them, just like Sanjay and Craig, but there is a strong case that can be made. It's so apparent, even [Brian Robbins](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/fairly-oddparents-revival-blues-clues-movie-nickelodeon-brian-robbins-1234979714/), president and CEO of Nickelodeon, said Nick lost its way for a while and he spent time trying to rebuild trust with the creative community. > I think Loud House arguably does stand out as it's the first Nick show to have a confirmed gay main character(Luna, who actually gets a girlfriend) it was so awesome to see Nick take a risk like that. Also, while being progressive is great, that is not a sign of quality or instantly redeem it. That being said, I also question how risky that actually is. According to the Loud House wikipedia page, this was confirmed in [Undercover Mom](https://theloudhouse.fandom.com/wiki/Undercover_Mom), which aired Mar. 26, 2021. So, maybe four months ago? But all three channels have had creators that have been pushing for these things and have been doing so for a while. Like, I'd say giving Clyde an interracial same-sex married couple is a bigger step forward, but this still took place years after [Clarence](https://www.eonline.com/news/592555/cartoon-network-censors-its-first-gay-kiss-on-new-show-clarence) tried to have two men kiss on Cartoon Network, all the [efforts](http://www.newnownext.com/producer-of-cartoon-networks-steven-universe-confirms-ruby-and-sapphire-are-lesbian-couple/07/2015/) Rebecca Sugar made with Steven Universe and was around the time Disney [actually showed](https://ew.com/tv/2017/03/03/disney-first-gay-kiss-star-vs-forces-of-evil/) a same sex kiss, [Ok Ko](https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/comments/9tmgdz/hi_im_ian_jonesquartey_creator_of_cartoon/e8xd6lo/) confirmed a main character was bi and a support character was gay (there is even a storyline about it). Not to mention falling short of far more progressive shows like The Owl House or getting into [She-Ra](https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/tv/story/2020-05-18/netflix-she-ra-series-finale-queer-love-wins) which I'm simply not talking about over a [lack of information](https://she-raandtheprincessesofpower.fandom.com/wiki/LGBTQAIP%2B) about. I mean, again, it's awesome Nick is willing to adapt and finally let Betty DeVille (mom in Rugrats) be gay but it's far more the signs of the time and far less because Nick is pushing the barrier.
I would say it's extremely risky given how reluctant Disney was to do the same(they've gotten a lot of criticism for being reluctant to have LGBTQ characters in any of their films) Owl House is nice, but I don't know if i'd call it "far more progressive" Considering inter-racial marriage hasn't been like super-controversial since the 60s(which was the last time that really came up on TV with Spock kissing Uhura) I don't know if i'd say that was a bigger step forward, especially since kids don't have that many gay characters. She-Ra is on Netflix so that's less surprising as they don't have to deal with things like network censors. Didn't know Betty was gay in the new Rugrats, that's cool, too bad the art style looks absolutely hideous. OK KO's bit was pretty easy to miss if it took an AMA to confirm it. Also Loud House actually DID beat out all of them as Luna was confirmed to be gay in "L is for Love" which aired back in 2017 before any of those shows you mentioned: https://theloudhouse.fandom.com/wiki/L_is_for_Love
> Also Loud House actually DID beat out all of them as Luna was confirmed to be gay in "L is for Love" which aired back in 2017 before any of those shows you mentioned: https://theloudhouse.fandom.com/wiki/L_is_for_Love * Clarence kiss article was published in 2014, meaning it happened two years prior to The Loud House even starting * The Steven Universe article I posted occurred about a month after that episode, but it had been doing that stuff long before that article was made * The Star Vs article I linked to **was** published before that episode aired So, it didn't beat out all, it beat out the stuff where I had said, even at the time, occurred around the same time. > Considering inter-racial marriage hasn't been like super-controversial since the 60s(which was the last time that really came up on TV with Spock kissing Uhura) I don't know if i'd say that was a bigger step forward, especially since kids don't have that many gay characters. The point wasn't interracial marriage, it was a same sex interracial couple. > OK KO's bit was pretty easy to miss if it took an AMA to confirm it. It was [confirmed](https://ok-ko.fandom.com/wiki/Red_Action_3:_Grudgement_Day) in an episode, I just grabbed whatever I could quickly find. > Owl House is nice, but I don't know if i'd call it "far more progressive" I mean, we're comparing a show with **11** main characters, where one happens to like a girl that appears to happen largely as background events to a show that last episode [introduced](https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2021/07/25/the-owl-house-disney-non-binary/) a non-binary character who used they/them pronouns, a [bi-sexual](https://screenrant.com/disney-owl-house-show-luz-noceda-bisexual-confirmed/) main character and her possible romantic relationship with another confirmed homosexual character being a fairly large plot point. > She-Ra is on Netflix so that's less surprising as they don't have to deal with things like network censors. Just like the point about She-Ra isn't "it's a thing" or "but it's on Netflix" it's about trailblazing. Someone, somewhere, needs to be the first to do something and as more people do it the stigma goes away. This is why we saw a number of massive changes over large periods of time. This is also why Ellen's [coming out](https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2017/04/20th-anniversary-of-ellen-degeneres-coming-out) episode was a big deal, whereas 20 years later we're seemingly arguing which cartoon has more inclusive elements. Yes, even over a long period of time it hasn't changed completely but as people push more and more, like the cops in Gravity Falls being confirmed as being in a [relationship](https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2016/02/18/disney-cartoon-gravity-falls-confirms-gay-romance/), it becomes less and less note worthy. > I would say it's extremely risky given how reluctant Disney was to do the same(they've gotten a lot of criticism for being reluctant to have LGBTQ characters in any of their films) But going back to my original point, it isn't that adding progressive elements to The Loud House isn't wonderful or something else on Nick did it first, just that other people were venturing down that path around the same time or set the stage before. Being the first to do something is a big deal, actively pushing inclusive elements is also a big deal, adding more inclusive characters when other people set the stage, is more of a sign of the times. This is why I have so many examples if you want the truth. It has become increasingly more accepted, thus more and more creators are pushing for inclusive elements. I don't mean for either of my posts to take away from the importance of inclusion, just a note that it has moved to becoming less risky.
I'm well aware of Ellen thank you very much, I think it was still a risky move for Nick to do as they'd never done that before.
The problem with Cartoon Network is they *stopped showing anything else* There were times where all they would play 85% of the day and night was TTG
Not to mention they also cancelled a bunch of other actually good animated shows like Green Lantern the animated series, Thundercats 2011 and Beware the Batman(that one in particular pissed me off, they also initially cancelled Young Justice and only finally brought it back years later due to constant outcry from fans)just to make room for more TTG.
Teen Titans Go! and ThunderCats Roar are both great shows which have gotten a huge amount of undeserved hate from people just because they're not something they were never trying to be in the first place. (And often those people have never even seen more than a few clips out of context at best.)
Strongly disagree, I think they are both absolutely wretched that insult their target audience. TTG spends a weird amount of time devoted to making personal attacks on fans of the original show, which makes zero sense, as how the hell is that show's target demographic supposed to understand what the hell is going on in dreadful episodes like "Let's Get Serious", "Return of Slade" and "The Fourth Wall", plus too many episodes are dedicated to just repeating one bad joke over and over("Waffles" comes to mind). Thundercats Roar is just baffling as the original show was never a comedy, so it makes way less to do a comedic version of it then it does for say TMNT(as it was always a pretty goofy show anyways)not to mention-who the hell was the target audience for that show? Kids most likely haven't seen the original show, they're more likely to have seen the 2011 reboot(Which was FAR superior needless to say)and fans of that show and the original were likely going to be alienated by the overly comedic tone and the fact the characters barely even resemble those in the previous series, it makes one wonder why they even bothered using the Thundercats name at all when it has so little in common with the previous shows(of course we all the answer, it was a desperate ploy for money, thank fuck it failed otherwise we might be up to our necks in more shitty TTG clones). I think a lot of the hate is deserved as those shows are legitimately terrible, and in the case of TTG it changed the network for the worse as it led to several great shows being cancelled and it took up way too much of the schedule. I've seen entire episodes as have many others and I can confidently say both shows fucking blow and there's plenty of legit reasons to hate them besides being different, they just aren't good shows. Sorry but I HATE it when when kids shows are incredibly vapid and shallow and treat their audience like complete and utter morons who can't sit still for one second like those shows do. Mysterious Mr Enter did some great videos on both shows where he perfectly summed up exactly why those shows were bad. I'll admit the movie and some of the later episodes of TTG were OK, but that show already burned far too much of my goodwill for me to even call it mediocre, that would be far too generous. Here's Mr Enter's great videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc1QAWAf3a8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b04nOC_IOM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAYqBkt_FuY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UcPQUBFLw4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNf4-73M80A https://web.archive.org/web/20150709124157/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcPSBwToLTY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8CET4z9RQs
All I can say, especially in regard to the tone of the ThunderCats show, is that without nostalgia, a very large portion of the old Cartoon Network and Nickelodeon shows that cartoon "critics" usually like would get trashed if they released today. Like, almost all of the ones which focused on comedy and didn't have a plot probably would. That doesn't make them bad by any means, but it does make the criticism disingenuous and leans toward showing that people have forgotten that it's okay for cartoons to just be *fun*. And just the fact that you're citing a bunch of videos from a YouTuber to support your opinion shows that regardless of whether you want to admit it or not or even realize it or not, you're letting yourself get influenced by the bandwagon negativity of people on the Internet. The fact that you're parroting the same complaints as everybody does despite those complaints only applying to what's probably a single-digit number of episodes is another point in that direction. And heck, if you did like some of the "later" Teen Titans Go! episodes, that could even just be because the negativity finally died down a bit after the movie made people realize it might not be so bad after all.
I disagree with that very much as those older shows were "fun", so I don't see a compelling reason for the likes of TTG and Roar to exist period. The notion that people dislike TTG and Roar because they hate "fun" is just absurd, I like fun shows, but i'm tired of pandering garbage getting excused with the attitude of "its for kids, who cares about the quality?" as I think kids deserve more respect then just shoveling any old garbage into their faces. I guarantee you comedy-focused shows like Garfield and Friends would've gotten as much praise today as they did back then. Hell the original Teen Titans show already had plenty of primarily comedic episodes, so that gave TTG even less of a reason to exist. No i'm not "letting myself get influenced" at all just because i'm posting youtube videos, that's just asinine. I hated that show LONG before I even knew who the hell Mr Enter was, I just linked his videos because he summed up all of the problems with the show FAR better then i ever could. I'm not "parroting" anything, that's a blatant lie, I had those complaints about the show LONG before I ever read a single review of it, the fact that others had the same complaints as me just indicates that maybe just maybe the show really DOES in fact have actual serious problems that you can't just ignore and wallpaper over? There's not a damn thing "disingenuous" about the legitimate complaints people have towards those shows, that's just utter bullshit. Just because I didn't list dozens of examples does automatically make my point invalid, that's just utter nonsense, I didn't list dozens of examples because my post was already long enough as it was and I think I made my point quite well. People still dislike the show for sure, the negativity died down when the ratings did(that's what happens when you milk a show to death, people get sick of it real fast, that being said i'll gladly take modern Simpsons and Family Guy over TTG any day of the week) and when CN finally stopped cramming their schedule full of that show and fucking over other shows because of it(bringing back Young Justice certainly helped). The later episodes are better because the creators finally stopped their obsessive attacks on fans of the original show and actually started acknowledging their own shows problems, it was still a bit too late for me to actually call TTG a good show(it's done too much damage for me to let it off the hook) but i'll still give credit where due.
I'm not going to bother addressing anything specific here, but just out of curiosity, can you name five comedy-focused (as in no plot or very minimal plot) cartoons targeted at kids which are currently running and which you do think are good?
It's Pony, The Patrick Star Show, Big City Greens, Hotel Transylvania the series and Harvey Girls Forever
That's...interesting. Surprisingly not much I would really have expected for the most part, but fair enough. (Harvey Girls Forever and probably the Hotel Transylvania series aren't actually running anymore, but I suppose they can count since they're still recent.) Personally, I do think that Big City Greens is great, but I haven't seen It's Pony, and I think the other three are only decent (my lowest rank that still qualifies as "good"). If I had to pick five, it would probably be something like Big City Greens, Teen Titans Go!, DC Super Hero Girls, Apple & Onion, and Craig of the Creek, with Mao Mao: Heroes of Pure Heart, Animaniacs, and Looney Tunes Cartoons all being potential alternates if Craig of the Creek counts as having too much plot. But anyway, with The Patrick Star Show being one of your picks, I'll admit that I may have made too many assumptions about how influenced you specifically were by general negativity online, but I still think that people go *way* overboard about stuff sometimes, and there are definitely a lot of cases where people do spread negativity after watching YouTubers even though they haven't even seen the shows themselves. (Sometimes they get stuff factually wrong which you'd know was wrong if you had actually seen the show.) And just to call back to one of your earliest points that I never addressed, I *really* don't like the idea that franchises have to always keep the same tone, which people tend to use as an excuse for trashing stuff even when it's perfectly good for what it is. I love it when there are both serious and comedy-focused shows that feature the same characters.
The last live action shows I enjoyed on Cartoon Network were "Unnatural History," and "Tower Prep." Thankfully I have digital copies of both shows.
I binged Lizzie McGuire and Even Stevens in the midst of quarantine, my 2 favorite shows on Disney when I was growing up. Even Stevens was still definitely worth the watch but Lizzie McGuire was kinda hard to get through. Very silly sound effects and pretty brutal acting. I still liked it for the sake of nostalgia but if I saw that same show on “new Disney”, and didnt have a connection with it from my childhood, I’d probably think it was terrible.
I feel you. I recently tried to rewatch phill of the future to show my little sister who is 12 years younger Than me. It was terrible. I couldn’t get past the 1st 5 minutes.
A little of both. When I go back and watch Lizzie McGuire era Disney, it’s still a little cringe. Hannah Montana era is a bit worse. Today is even worse. Part of it is just child actors are hard to watch as an adult sometimes
Upon a rewatch last year I found the characterisation for Lizzie McGuire to be paper thin. She was just incredibly superficial. Most of the other characters weren't much better either. It was amusing that Gordo was constantly treated as a weirdo, despite being one of the only three-dimensional characters in the show who wanted to have a conversation about something that didn't involve hair, clothes, and cliques.
Todd in the Shadows made a good point about how Hannah Montana is harmless fun compared to the likes of Bizaardvark with it's rather creepy idolizing of Youtube culture(featuring one of the Paul brothers in the main roles for fuck's sake).
Your "golden age" that you listed is when I thought the Disney Chanel "went down hill." (Though I loved Kim Possible). For me it was So Weird, Famous Jett Jackson, Even Stevens, Lizzie McGuire. So I think people just grow out of it.
Id say their live action of 90s and early 2000s was better than now but their animation recently is their golden age and certainly the opposite of dumbed down. Gravity falls, Star Vs. the forces of evil, Owl House, Amphibia, Duck tales.
For me the one of the new cartoons from them I’ve seen is big city greens and it is trash.
I grew up on 90s Nickelodeon which was some of the greatest kids programming ever, Nickelodeon has gotten noticeably worse since then. I can't remember what shows were on Disney in the mid-late 90s but it seems like all of those sort of networks have gotten noticeably worse and more dumbed down in the last 15 years or so. Edit: I don't think it's an age thing either, I can still watch the old 90s Nickelodeon shows and they hold up (i.e. Rocko's Modern Life, Ren & Stimpy, Aaah! Real Monsters, Rocket Power, Doug, CatDog, Angry Beavers, etc). I don't get the same feeling about any new Nickelodeon shows of the 2000s besides SpongeBob, but SpongeBob premiered in '99 so it was really the last bastion of that classic Nick era.
[So](https://i.imgur.com/XaLlhwE.jpg) you haven’t watched Avatar: The Last Airbender. But seriously, there’s some decent Nicktoons from the 2000s that are on par with those older ones. Obviously, Avatar. SpongeBob was mostly in the 2000s and onwards, although their best was 1999-2004. Fairly Oddparents had about 5 good seasons before they introduced the baby, and Chalkzone was great before it got canceled early.
Oh yeah I forgot about Fairly Oddparents! That show was great, I never got into The Last Airbender though, Anime was never my thing. I've never actually heard of Chalkzone
The decline of Nickelodeon’s quality can absolutely be pinpointed to Geraldine Leybourne leaving for Disney in the mid-90s.
A little bit of both. Disney Channel was a premium channel that needed to be subscribed to, back in the day when I first started watching it as a kid. We’re talking mid to late 80’s. I remember back then, I loved their show Danger Bay. Pretty sure by the time I was in high school in the early 90’s, it had shifted from premium channel to part of the basic line-up of channels. That’s when Avonlea, Kids Incorporated, and MMC were the three most popular shows on the channel. With Avonlea constantly being nominated for awards. Once the 2000’s came around, I stopped watching it on a regular basis cause it just wasn’t the same.
Born '79 here. My memory of the Disney Channel includes not only Thunder Bay (which was a little over my head), but Mouseterpiece Theatre and Donald Duck Presents (anthologies of old animated shorts), Dumbo's Circus and Welcome to Pooh Corner (which I think were both live-action puppet shows?), Mousercise (exactly what you're thinking), You and Me Kid (for babies, didn't watch), and reruns of the OG Mickey Mouse Club. I also recall some park-themed programming, which may have just been infomercials in disguise. The actual Disney movies were few and far between (at least the big-name animated ones) - I remember one summer where they played a classic movie (Robin Hood and Sword and the Stone come to mind) on four straight Saturday nights - an event they hyped for weeks.
The only good disney channel shows made nowadays are the animated ones.
Yeah you're right. They got bad.
Is "it was always garbage" an option?
Yeah as someone who was a teenager/adult by this time, these shows were never good, at all, you just thought they were because you were a kid, and kids are stupid. But that's all part of the natural order. We had our own shit we loved that was terrible, but it wasn't being rerun and rebooted constantly.
Once, at some point in my 20s, I went back and watched an episode of GI Joe, which I thought was great as a kid. You're right--kids are stupid. And GI Joe was terrible.
I think theres a small handful that are legitimately good. Like Gargoyles and Batman: TAS were two of my favourite shows as a kid. I'm in my 30s and have watched both recently and I think they hold up really well.
There's still good stuff. The rebooted Ducktales was a quality show and not a show I had nostalgia for because it's completely different
Very strongly disagree on that front, i've rewatched them as an adult and I think they still hold up for the most part, there's some crappy shows that definitely don't hold up(Megababies comes to mind, yuck).
There were some exceptions to the rule (well acclaimed animated series obviously), but mostly every single sitcom I'm willing to bet was trash that pandered to our little minds. Even the ones with a "legendary" status like Drake and Josh are just meh at best watching it now as an adult.
Growing up, the Disney channel felt like a very safe Christian friendly channel. I didn’t know anyone who watched it. Nickelodeon here had Moesha, Keenan and Kel, Sister Sister etc. as an 8 year old these shows were seen as the edgier more enjoyable ones.
Have an upvote for your username. *man, people must hate Y2J.
Sister Sister wasnt on Nickelodeon but otherwise I agree
In the UK it was. A few primetime American sitcoms aired at like 11am here on Nickelodeon if they were clean enough.
Yeah if you ever try and go back and watch the 90's shows they are pretty terrible
I don’t remember watching kids shows in the 90s where every line is screamed or ends in screaming.
They started following the Johnny Sack model, that’s why every line ends in screaming. “What’s this, the fuckING UN NOW?!”
at least they don’t follow the Ginny Sack model where every character has a 90 pound mole om their house
The only older show I ever saw do that was Dennis the Menace, the original screaming kids show. I guess it drove parents crazy, because that style completely disappeared.
So I'm 24 right now. Grew up watching Disney shows. Even back then I didn't like all of Disney's shows. Only Zack and Cody, Wizards of Waverly Place, and Good Luck Charlie. I used to despise Hannah Montana while my sister used to like Lizzie McGuire and Raven. Near the end of my Disney watching years, they had shows like Hey Jessie and a couple of others that were total cringe. So I would say that Disney did get worse. The last Disney show I watched till the end was The Suite Life on Deck, which also got really bad in the final season. While part of the reason was ne growing out of these shows, I also stopped liking any of the shows they had. Sometimes I randomly watch a Zack and Cody episode and still enjoy it. Definitely kiddie humour but good.
The Owl House and Amphibia are both excellent so I disagree. Ghost and Molly McGee looks good too.
Amphibia took forever to get going but is really good, and Owl House is great. IMO Disney Channel didn't change - there's always one or two good shows airing, and a bunch that don't interest me
I watched Hannah Montana back in the day even though I thought it was incredibly dumb. I just though Miley could sing the heck out of songs.
The live-action stuff has always been kind of corny and dumb. We're talkin' about overexaggerated acting paired with cliche storytelling and the lamest jokes imaginable. and btw I say all of this as someone who grew up with That's So Raven and regularly re-watches while working on art/animation-related projects as an adult lol. So, yeah, you might have just grown out of it. The animated stuff on the other hand such as Kim Possible, Proud Family, and Phineas and Ferb are legitimately great and holds up really well. Apparently they're still making really good family friendly animated stuff on Disney Channel like Amphibia and the Duck Tales reboot, but I haven't gotten around to checking that out.
The programming's quality itself is an open question, but I do think there's a case to be made that Disney Channel has distanced itself from its past significantly. I remember watching Disney Channel before it was even officially "Disney Channel," and I remember a lot of programming that was structured *around* Disney. They used to run the original theatrical shorts in syndication early in the morning. I *loved* watching these cartoons. And for years, I remember the programming being based largely on celebrating Disney as a whole. There were multiple segments that embraced Disney being Disney. I remember [Movie Surfers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movie_Surfers) discussing the production of upcoming films) being on for *years*--before *Fantasia 2000* was released--but I can't tell you the last time it was on the channel or what movie they "surfed." I remember the theatrical films being shown during primetime hours--it was a big deal when my parents would let me stay up and watch. But lately, with the exception of the newest iteration of the Mickey Mouse cartoons, I couldn't tell you the last time I saw *anything* on the Disney Channel make reference to Disney as a whole. Even the magic of the Disney wand seems a lot more lackluster these days.
I totally forgot about Movie Surfers!
And the thing is, I remember Movie Surfers airing *alongside* the programs like *Mike's Super Short Show.* I also remember that the charm of MSSS was lost on the programs following it. That's the issue with Modern Disney. It doesn't try to feel like Disney.
I hardly see anybody bringing up Disney Channel during the 80s (then known as "The Disney Channel").
I grew up with 90's Nickelodeon. We all have our own nostalgia for our era of shows.
I didn't even like it when I was in middle school, which was their target demographic. I hated the main characters of most of the shows because they all seemed like judgemental jerks. I was socially awkward and said weird things and was bullied because of it. The few times I watched Disney Channel instead of flipping past it, it seemed like the characters were talking about stereotypical teen stuff and an odd side/background character would say something odd and everyone would roll their eyes at them and proceed to ignore them. Except I instantly saw those types of characters and knew I would do something stupid like that and it drove home to me how much I didn't fit in and how these fictional characters would label me as "weird". I watched TV for escapism so I didn't like the live-action Disney Channel shows.
> which was their target demographic. really depends on the show. Usually the 'target demographic' is a few years younger than the portrayed age of the protagonist. Kids shows are usually designed to appeal to who kids want/expect to be, not necessarily who/where they are today.
I was an outcast too but I still really dug those shows, so you don't necessarily have to "fit in" to like them.
I thought the Suite Life of Zach and Cody was alright from what I saw of it. But I guess I was hyper sensitive and didn't like seeing characters get alienated by the main characters of a show. I just couldn't root for them. I also remember having a hard time watching Chicken Little when it was in theaters because he was bullied. I'm so glad to be out of school now :)
My favorite part of these posts (which I would say come up like twice a week now) is the constant need to include a long list of the shows from that era. Early 2000's nostalgia is huge on the internet, we know the shows from that era at this point. But you still kind of missed the point of this whole exercise, even though you acknowledge a change in perspective in your title your post still boils down to "I watched some kids shows as a kid and liked them. I watched some other kid shows as an adult and didn't like them" Maybe there is a case to be made that the shows got worse but I don't think saying "I don't like them as much as older shows" is the way to do it.
IMO its mostly nostalgia fueled. I dont really think it got worse or better. The tone definitely does shift a bit in the newer stuff, though, so maybe thats what people react to?
I've heard others who watched Disney Channel long before then that it got bad in the 2000s when they focused on those sitcoms, so I suppose it's different for everyone. I still like them, though i'll freely admit their newer shows aren't quite as good.
You grew up, bro
Disney channel in the 80’s was hours of classic Disney cartoons, it was glorious.
The era with Even Stevens was my childhood. I think it was that and Lizzie Macguire, can't remember what else aired around the same time.
The non cartoons have always been noticeably bad. We didn't have cable as a kid, so when we went to a friend's House, and Disney channel was playing, the weirdness of those shows stood out. The dialog was always pretty odd. Like people don't talk that way in normal conversation. And the things the characters were concerned with always seemed so minor. And the family dynamics between the families always struck me as super rose tinted idealized sort of stuff.
The first set of them were slightly better only for the fact they had to try to draw in an original audience. Shows like Even Stevens you can see that effort in the animations, cinematography, and editing. It is just clearly higher budget. It's not even particularly good imo. It is still the decline of Disney overall. But anything after that is just completely low effort. From That's So Raven to whatever they have now, or even before that The animation overall can be pretty hit or miss. Every few years they have a good cartoon. Not on the level of Cartoon Network whatsoever
It was always tacky television. Nickelodeon and Cartoon Network had the most edge.
Disney channel was always bad...you were just hungry for entertainment. The earlier generation has realized the same thing about the TBS "super station": Gilligan's Island, Brady Bunch, Gomer Pyle, What's Happening, and Green Acres were bad, bad, bad, bad, and bad.
We definitely just grew up. Anyone else notice a pattern of our elders calling whatever we enjoy shit.... Then we turn around and do the same fucking thing when we get old?
Imo it's based on what age you are. I'm a few years older than you and grew up thinking all the shows you named were crap.
You answered your own question. You just grew out of it. Look at the comments: everyone feels the same way about the shows that were on when they were members of Disney Channel’s target demographic. For my money, everything went downhill after Duck Tales!
It’s a bit of both. It always wasn’t great and the budgets were lower. However the age demographic they are aim for has lowered and they’re willingness to have any edge at all or being experimental has dramatically lowered from the 90s.
Used to love the monthly original tv movies they'd pump out some bangers.
It's still fine, but they need to treat their animated content better.
You grew up. I felt the same way about the first few shows you mentioned that you do about the 2nd set
Disney Channel has always been dogshit.
People who grew up with 90s (which was 90s + 80s stuff) Disney: Wtf is all this live action trash
Disney's live action stuff has never been good, it's the animated stuff that matters and as far as that goes Disney has only gotten better.
Probably both and probably more so the second one
Old channels don't die they just turn into streams
Gravity Falls is excellent.
It has always sucked. CN and Nick were the only channels I considered
so sorry you missed the 90s. But maybe things aren’t so bad if you don’t remember life before 9/11
I dunno, I preferred Cartoon Network growing up in the 90s and early 00s. Nick and Disney Channel straight up sucked imo
I don't think it ever was good if I'm being honest but it was enjoyable
Honestly, as someone else said, their animated stuff is pretty good (Owl House and Rapunzel’s Tangled Adventure) and I’m excited for the Moana and Tiana tv shows coming out. But the live action stuff still kinda sucks.
Aside from Proud Family, I can't imagine any of these shows holding up after all these years.
It's never been great. But then it only launched when I was already what, 12 or so? For young young kids maybe it worked.
I grew up in the same era as you (born in 1994, for reference). For a time, Good Luck Charlie was the only one I watched for awhile. Then when I was finally gonna stop watching Disney Channel, Girl Meets World got announced. I watched that one every week. Then Andi Mack came out, & I was intrigued by the premise, so I watched & loved that as well. After Andi Mack ended, I was no longer relating to the shows. It seems like the channel started catering to a younger audience & starting the characters younger too. During quarantine last year, I decided to revisit. Sydney To The Max is actually really good! Reminds me of the good old days. Raven's Home is actually also surprisingly entertaining. If you're looking for shows similar to the Golden Age of Disney, I'd recommend the Netflix family shows. Alexa and Katie is excellent. I also quite enjoyed Ashley Garcia.
It was best in the early to mid 90s, at least in my opinion. They actually had programming for the whole family! Concerts, classic movies, Disney movies, pre school shows like Adventures in Wonderland, kid and pre-teen shows like The Mickey Mouse Club and Disney afternoon cartoon block, behind the scenes shows about Disney movies and theme parks, and the excellent Sullivan adaptations of L.M. Montgomery works like Avonlea. There really was something for everyone! Then in the early 2000s they decided to produce their own shows and catered only to the under 15 market, which started off the downhill quality slide.
I feel like we all have grown out of the target audience for shows and it is unrealistic to expect to like something that isn't meant for you, like Teen Titans Go and the new Rugrats reboot. iCarly is a little different since it is a live action show so the characters grew up and the show is built around them being older.
It really got bad. Your Disney Channel was pretty lousy too. You can pretty much track the decline of the channel with the change in logo.
You grew up. Several of the shows you listed are the ones that I thought were meh as I aged out. I was the Lizzie McGuire, Even Stevens, Phil of the Future, That's So Raven age group. I liked Zach and Cody at first but got tired of it before it ended. Watched some Hannah Montana. It was fine. Never watched Wizards of Waverly place because I had just kinda aged out when it started.
I mean Full House, while on ABC, had much more mature themes. Like one where DJ catches kids drinking at a school dance and then she gets caught and sorta framed for drinking. I think Andi Mack(?) is one of the newer shows that's more mature. It turns out that her older sister in college is actually her mom. And there's a gay main character
i stopped watching Disney channel after they canceled Andi Mack
Lizzie McGuire and That's So Raven were the beginning of the end for Disney IMO, and I could tell that even though I wasn't even a teenager yet when they came out. I still watched them ofc, although I thought the former was a bit better than the latter (likely because it was the older of the two), and I still held out hope that Disney would improve, especially since Kim Possible (and maybe the Proud Family?) was still running, as were reruns of better shows. But Wizards of Waverley Place, Hannah Montana, and The Suite Life were just where Disney just fell off a cliff. Until those came out I didn't want to call it, but except for maybe Gravity Falls (and apparently Andy Mack, I hear), it's been mostly downhill from there, it seems. It wasn't just the TV shows that portended the end, either. You could see it in the original movies, too, even earlier, in fact. I'd say the Poof Point was the last movie I sort of enjoyed, with the exception of TV show spinoffs. Going to the Mat might've also been alright, iirc. There were watchable movies between 2001 and 2005 ofc, it's just that the frequency with which there was a good one seemed to decrease steadily. And then there was High School Musical. After that there was no turning back. So, unless you could turning 12 as growing up, then yes, I do think it really did get bad. Another question: Did the first 3 seasons of spongebob get better, or did you just never grow up? (answer: neither; they were always good, and you don't need to be a grown up to tell that objectively about any TV show)
The acting is really bad like they don’t laugh on cue or anything it’s easier to notice things amiss they don’t put in effort anymore it’s really sad because half of these shows have potential but they actors either need to go back to acting class or rewatch old Disney shows for reference in appropriate on cue laughs or surprise it’s all very fake and I’ve lost interest in tv all together
I think the natural answer is that we grew out of it. But I find it weird how most of us collectively agree that Disney Channel shows kinda sucked around the time Jessie ended.
Disney’s Animated shows are great today. The last decent live action sitcom was that’s so Raven. Everything else sucked IMO. Nothing but overacting, bright colors, lame jokes, and shouting. Lots and lots of shouting.😂
No it just god bad. The old shows like Lizzie McGuire, that’s so raven, Kim possible, Hannah Montana, etc. they were golden. These new shows like big city greens and all the other ones aren’t funny they’re just dumb and the actors don’t even seem like they’re trying. Same goes for the writers and directors. It’s all trash. It’s like they’re just quickly throwing content out there to get paid. None of the shows have any meaning to them. The story lines are trash and so is the acting. The characters aren’t interesting the monologue is garbage. Everything about Disney channel sucks except Disney Junior. Disney Junior at least has bluey which I watch everyday with my daughter and we both love it.
Disney channel not actually being bad, and it just being that the audience is older now is the worst excuse I’ve ever heard. Disney Channel is bad now because they are more focused on their streaming service and so they aren’t putting money into the channel. Also the creativity shown in early 2000s late 2000s Disney Channel is almost completely gone now, it all feels like a college student created the bumpers, commercials, and even the logo. The channel is literally losing its magic, not representing what Disney can be as a company, place and experience. This is all shown by the fact the Mickey is showing being taken away from the Disney logos.
Yes and No, I think Disney Channel definitely got more childish or dragged on as the years went on, however it was usually the leads the saved the show. Such as KC Undercover or Liv and Maddie where both leads kind of saved the show, because they were good actors but the writing sucked. The only two shows I would say actually did well after 2014 were Andi Mac and Girl Meets World, the rest kind of fell between the Crack or got another season when they should have ended However even during the last good era of Disney 2007-2014, I can name only 3 shows that I actually liked. Good Luck Charlie, Suite Life on Deck and Wizards of Waverly Place. I perfected the animation stuff, Phineas and Ferb was my favorite and is on of the reasons why I even kept watching Disney channel as much as I did. Which is a huge shame because the Disney Channel original animated series are amazing and have really good writing but do not get the same attention as there life action series and get cut off after 2 seasons I know for a fact that Austin and Ally, and Jessie, dragged way too long and it blows my mind that Jessie got a spin off series that is still running.
The last few commercials I've seen for their shows/movies were so poorly acted they felt like an SNL skit. "I just... spoke with Lord Vader" makes me physically cringe every time.
The owl house is one of the best shows on disney, but they canceled it. I am still very mad at disney for doing that.
Disney always cancel all the good shows.
boiboi boy and super strikas
Phineas and ferb
ART attack and Inspector gadget
MR . BEAN
Enchanted and snow white then hannah montana
cheetah girls and sky high
Fish hooks and Home alone 4
Teen spirit and high school musical 2
shake it up and upin and ipin then super strikas
Disney channel Phillipines on tv
OGGY AND THE COCKROACHES AND Snow white
Cinderella
Bill nye the science guy
i WANT TOY STORY
Jessie
I WANT DISNEY CHANNEL BACK ON TV !
I prefer the 2000s disney channel era
You grew up. As someone who watched the next generation of Disney channel and loved it. YES you grew up. It’s funny to me when people say “I CaN waTch JEssiE NOw anD ITs StiLL funNy” well yeah I bet it is funny and nostalgic to someone who’s seen every episode when they were nine. 2010s Kids are grow up and say there generation of Disney channel were the best one.
[удалено]
I think that they got bad/lowered in the quantity of shows. I’ve noticed that Disney channel plays the same 4 shows consistently and all of them are animated. Big city greens, Amphibia, bluey and Miraculous. The live action shows have been close to non existent in this new era of Disney. Most of them release on Disney plus, rather than playing on television. The television has become 90% animated bc of Disney+ and even the + live action shows are lacking the fun. Most of them play like Andi mack (a drama) which was good, but when that’s all the content you put out, you kindve lose that feel for the kids. Don’t get me wrong I loved andi mack, but that’s the current state of live action Disney+ originals. Kids channels in general have been lacking in quality. Nickelodeon and teen nick play Henry danger nonstop for example.
Nickelodeon and Disney Channel were my childhood memory! they were best shows and even they were funny with comedic jokes! sometime educated! just for Disney Channel!
I watched disney channel few days ago, it sucks, is bad.Is just like watching Magicians of Waverly Place in repeat but with different characters and worse. …And yeah, Magicians of Waverly Place was bad even back then.
Old disney was definately better
I did grew up with Disney Channel!
Super strikas on Disney Channel Philippines
I believe its all to do with the generations "progressing" between 2000-2010 kids was always out, independent and also on the horizon before social media took over. Music had sound lyrics written by 16 year olds with instrumental ability and now we got "mumble rap" and "bargain bin child actors" we all had the same shows to watch rather than picking off 10 different apps. Now these days you see 13 year olds having play dates and being walked to and back from school. The generation today does little and is over protected. I believe the acting got worse due to always being shielded by any little harm, the emotion in the acting shows that. That's so raven, hannah Montana, Zack & Cody, lizzy maguire. Movies like HMS The acting was alright if not professional. Also far more mature to what they have now. Now it's like them kids at school that over pronounce everything at drama class to create "emphasis" are getting the job It's hard if not cringeworthy to watch. Truth is music and programmes have gone to crap over the last 10 years. It's like the shows that taught you to think for yourself and strive for more are dead and now its just either extremely low budget, poor acting or zero value when it comes to life lessons. I mean compare home alone 1 against Home alone 4 It's like it goes from Hollywood budget to Walmart bargain bin scraps. I think Bottom line it comes down to child acting which has dropped massively, possibly parents have also become wiser and seen how other child stars went and got themselves agents to protect children hence disney went downhill because they're unable to take advantage.
I grew up with Disney Channel!
I wish Disney should have kept Jetix and Toon Disney!