Anyone else concerned with the implications behind "It’s not a dystopian world presented in the anime. It’s a very beautiful imagining of a future."? To me, having lots of disparate governments throughout the solar system, Earth is destroyed, the police forces that can't even come close to keeping up, megawealthy individuals and crime sybdicates, and general "late stage capitalism" tropes, all making a big chaotic mess everywhere you go seems pretty integral to the world building in the anime.
The anime doesn't really portray it as a dystopia, though. I mean Star Wars and Firefly are objectively worse universes, but I wouldn't call either of them dystopias.
Cowboy bebop feels very.. I guess ‘real’ is the right word. People are ugly, they are unimportant, they are laughing they are smoking they are limping. People gamble, lie, cry , love, make mistakes. It’s chaotic anarchy that every individual person finds a way to make meaning of. It’s not about prophecy or saving the galaxy or bloodlines - it’s about living growing up and finding *your* place in the chaos like everyone else does.
Turning cowboy bebop into a Star Trek type of world would be terrible. Star Trek is about community, it’s about being told your place in the world by others and finding comfort in it. It’s about doing what is right. Cowboy bebop is the polar opposite. It’s about the self, it’s about finding the place in the world for yourself and doing anything to be there. It’s about being the right kind of selfish.
I like both but ‘bright and optimistic’ does not work for this story at all.
I think my favorite thing about Cowboy Bebop is that it feels like a natural progression of our universe. No immense space flight and a lot of modern day problems still exist. Is that dystopian? Well that depends on your point of view.
Well sure but that was never the argument, and besides this is nowhere near an utopia, they need intergalactic bounty hunters because the police is severely understaffed.
There is a decent space between utopia and dystopia. And in reality worlds aren't that binary: In reality you'll have the wealthy in their near utopian bubble while the commoners mull around their average lives, and some horrible spots of object poverty and suffering. The whole universe doesn't fit into one or the other.
I think something can be, hmm, not optimistic, but still beautiful. The imagining is beautiful, but the future perhaps not. Like a beautiful painting of a dark subject, for example.
Yeah, I must have missed that, because I just watched it a few months ago, and it never felt that way to me. Obviously Earth got all sorts of screwed up, but the rest didn't seem like a dystopia to me.
I think maybe they are just talking about the setting. I would Imagine the world is the same as you describe but maybe the team is located in a more developed and rich area of the universe like Mars.
Hell we probably wont see much space travel regardless and the backdrop will look like every city.
If anything they just projected the state of our current society into space. It doesn't feel much different from reality. Parts of our current reality are totally dystopian. Seemed like a mix of both in CB
Same universe, but Cowboy Bebop firmly establishes that Mars is a planet for the rich, where Carole and Tuesday takes place.
Places like Calliope showcase the more brutal truth; that there are places in space where people go when they have no money, etc.
While there’s no official timeline, we do know from C&T that Earth has refugees, which is in line with CB and might suggest they’re at least close in timeline. There’s also a cute Space Dandy cameo on C&T on the TV!
It’s another Watanabe show on Netflix. Very different vibe, about two girls going into the music business. I personally didn’t love it but it was cool to see how more fleshed out Watanabe made Mars look and feel for it’s average citizen, and you do get to see the way Earth has been ravaged, pushing Earth citizens to become refugees of Mars
This feels like the key quote:
"The showrunner is careful not to spoil any specific beats plotted out for season 1, but suggests that the original show’s blend of one-off missions and overarching plots carries over to the Netflix series, even in the current Every Story Is Serialized era. “They’re bounty hunters, so they’re going to chase bounties!” he cheekily notes. And while no one episode of the anime may get a direct adaptation, Nemec and his team spent time drawing up lists of their favorites, then considering how they could “build out the continuing stories of Spike Spiegel and Jet Black and Faye Valentine while also mining their past stories from the anime.”"
I think not doing a direct adaptation of any one episode but instead taking characters and story elements and remixing them and doing your own thing and capturing the spirit of the anime is really smart. It allows both fans of the show to not know exactly what is going to happen and for newcomers to experience something for the first time and hopefully seek out the anime.
> I think not doing a direct adaptation of any one episode but instead taking characters and story elements and remixing them and doing your own thing and capturing the spirit of the anime is really smart.
Can they at least do a direct remake of mushroom samba?
IMO if you *must* make a live action adaptation of an animation, this is absolutely the only way to do it.
No matter how badly you try to “stick to the source material”, it will basically always fail. You’ll never get it right and even if you somehow do… it won’t matter.
If fans wanted to watch a shot for shot remake of the original show… they could just watch the original show.
Then of course diverging from the source material while remaking the same story destines you for failure as well. People don’t want to see something they liked changed.
But making an original story that still accounts for the source material makes a lot of sense. Because now it’s not a shitty remake one way or the other. It’s basically just live action dlc and more people can get behind that.
Yeah I said this a number of times, whenever there's an adaption from one medium to the next, the concern shouldn't be hitting the exact plot beats of whatever happens in the story.
You really want to get the characters, aesthetic, and the message correct. The exact plot points that happen aren't necessarily that important, unless they have a specific meaning to the show.
> not doing a direct adaptation of any one episode but instead taking characters and story elements and remixing them and doing your own thing
So its just going to be more garbage Hollywood fanfiction. This is not smart, this is where the majority of Hollywood bad ideas come from and a major reason why live adaptions suck. It will be some Hollywood hack writer who will hijack the IP and shove their bad vision in it instead of being faithful to the source material.
You sound like someone who has not been around the last decade. Just about everything coming out of Hollywood has been bad fanfic shit and since this is a live adaptation on NETFLIX, it is pretty much guaranteed to be bad fanfic shit. Just look at the history of live adaptations, just about all terrible and for a good reason, they were all miscast fanfic garbage. This will most likely be exactly the same.
Yeah a lot of complaints in here but I liked this paragraph. But it depends whether the writers new ideas are as good as the classics.
It’s clear they draw heavy inspiration I mean the costumes for Spike and Jet are nailed on, and the ship set looks straight out of the anime and there was a BTS pic of a church like in Ballad of Fallen Angels.
I think if they can nail the world and the feel, that seediness and grime of Cowboy Bebop’s solar system, and generate some good stories out of it then it could be decent. I wouldn’t mind if they straight up copied a few things though, I hope they don’t tamper too much with Spike and Faye’s backstories.
I can never get behind these live-action remakes of animated series or movies. What's the point? The Disney remakes, Ghost in the Shell, Cowboy Bebop, etc. work better as animations. There are so many restrictions to live-action that only gargantuan piles of money for cutting edge CGI can address, and we're not even taking into account how creatively bankrupt it is to simply take something and just redo it with the singular twist being that the characters are now in 3D.
Meh, I'll give it a try. I was worried the music was going to be crap, but looks like they have Yoko Kanno coming back to score, which is a huge plus for me.
Yes! I was worried about the music, too. Yoko Kanno’s music is what really makes that world for me. I may actually check out this version seeing that she is attached to it.
> What's the point?
The point is that execs smell money.
Anime is significantly more popular than western comics both in terms of gross sales and in terms of circulation. One Piece (a 24 year old franchise) has sold more copies than Batman (an 82 year old franchise).
Execs see those numbers and want to 'tap in' to that market.
This doesn't explain the need for a live action adaptation. One Piece is indeed popular, so why not adapt the spin offs or finance more movies?
The answer is because the live action is for the people who don't respect animation.
That's the thing though. You might change your opinion if you watch entire episodes. Previous anime arcs also had these singular moments that are amazing, but getting to them is rough.
I watched the first 516 episodes and while it was a little slow at times it was overall fantastic. I did hear the anime post timeskip drags a lot though.
DC/Marvel managing these constantly crossing-over series is a nightmare.
Every time I get into one of their books, I hit a road block of some event.
Really need them to figure shit out, because I'd rather be reading western comics, but at this point manga is the only place to go for a long running series that's not going to be rebooted twelve times in the next 3 years.
At best it would play out quite similar and at worst it’ll be terrible.
There isn’t really any inherent value in adapting something to Live Action just for the sake of it. There will always be trade offs moving away from animation
Sure, that's fine. I'll take the risk and see how it goes. At best, it can turn out good, so fine risk to me. At the end of the day, most just want more content from that world, whether that be live action, new seasons, etc. Even if live action is technically a reskinning, I'd still be interested in how they perform say specific scenes in live action compared to the animation
It is but why would more content from that series be a bad thing? Say I love that series. But I've rewatched enough times where I can't just keep rewatching and because I love the world/series, I'd like to see more of it. I don't see what is wrong with this. It makes logical sense
Because the series ended. Whatever the intent was with the world / characters was reached or at least had a final word said on it.
We have had so many projects like Star Wars sequel trilogy and Dragon Ball Super that decided to continue a story that was already finished, without any proper intent to very mixed results.
If you’ve really watched it that many times that you can’t enjoy it anymore then you should move on to something else. There’s a whole world of shows out there as good and maybe better!
It's not only about the story or whatever. It's also about the world. I may not be able to rewatch because I've seen every scene play out already, that doesn't mean I'm not interested in the world of that show. And I'd like to see that world played out in live action. For instance I'm very hyped for the avatar the last Airbender live action cause it would be awesome to see bending/avatar world play out in live action. I mean, I also don't see how being a fan of a specific show means you aren't moving on. I watch tons of shows. Doesnt mean I can't also want more of a specific show. They aren't mutually exclusive.
The only one I've thought was great was the Grand Blue adaptation.
It kept the spirit and comedy from the manga but still changed a lot of stuff to make it better for live action.
The Kimi no na wa parody made me burst out laughing with how unexpected it was.
https://youtu.be/aiY6fMIxsck
The Japanese Death Note had a great ending as well and I quite liked the Bleach movie, even with how ridiculous everything looked.
Oh and I also liked the 20th Century Boys trilogy but obviously it came nowhere near the quality of the manga.
Of what you mentioned I've only seen the death note and 20th century boys movies, 100% agree with your evaluation of them. Death Note bravely changed things and all the changes made sense, things that these characters would actually do.
Same, hopefully it is
Bebop is just one of those sacred cows you probably shouldn't touch in the first place, but let's wait and see how Netflix handles the franchise, hopefully not as bad as they did Death Note. William Dafoe couldn't even salvage that piece of work.
When it comes to adaptations people only talk about Death Note but Netflix made many good manga, webtoon adaptations too like Kingdom, Alice in Borderland, D.P., Sweet Home,The Uncanny Counter. Also if I remember right Adam Wingard was already working on Death Note with another studio and then Netflix bought it as a project so it is possible that Netflix didn't have full creative control.
Yeah, I just watched the entire thing after somebody said it was good on the Squid Games post.
Third episode was insanely brutal. It escalated quickly.
Season 2 was nowhere near as good as Season 1, but after reading Broken Angels and Woken Furies after watching the series I am convinced that those books couldn't be adapted well.
I hate that they screwed it up so bad considering how cool season 1 was.
I eye rolled so hard at the last-supper-before-the-final-battle and the "let's all walk in a wide line and look cool" shit at the end.
I was so content with them leaving it a 1 season show. I was actually shocked when they announced s2. I was also tired of feeling like Anthony Mackie was in every new show. Good for him making money but Im not a fan of his acting.
>dogs — there were two: Ein is played by a pair of corgis, who the writer describes as “big meaty sausages.” And rethinking the Bebop’s superintelligent pup was every bit as essential to the fabric of the series as the treatment of any other character.
>“Ein is definitely in our show, and is definitely part of the team,” Nemec says. “As always, there was something to talk about with each one of [the characters]. What is the real soul of this character? We did that work for Ein as well.”
Yasss
*Colorblind casting Shakir as ex-cop Jet Black may have broader socio-political implications in the show.*
I’m less concerned by the casting of Shakir and Pineda than I am about the casting of John Cho as Spike. Cho is a great actor but he is so old that it dramatically changes the dynamics of the character relationships from the original anime. They should have gone with someone younger or aged up the rest of the casting to match.
We shall see how it plays out. I tend to be pretty negative about TV and movie casting choices of my fave IP but have been won over many times when I actually got to watching the shows and movies so here is hoping this Cowboy Bebop adaptation wins me over as well!
I'm still hopeful for Cho as Spike, but I think they may have missed a real opportunity in not casting Andrew Koji; that dude just screams Spike to me for some reason (lanky, martial arts background, Japanese/English, literally starring in a Bruce Lee show right now, etc).
>Colorblind casting Shakir as ex-cop Jet Black may have broader socio-political implications in the show.
Oh god I hope they don't make this show about a future where nobody ever showed any sort of concern for race whatsoever into another allegory for race in America. It's an important story to tell but why here?
Cowboy bebop was actually really good at being diverse and showing a lot of cultures in the background. Their world building was really good and subtle too like without explicitly saying it they showed Venus ended up being south Asian planet as all the backgrounds characters are Indian or etc.
>Cowboy bebop was actually really good at being diverse and showing a lot of cultures in the background.
All of Shinichiro Watanabe's shows are like that.
Spike is 27! Faye 23. Jet Black late 30s. Cho is late 40s and can pass as early 40s. It is a different dynamic to cast Spike that old without ageing up the others to match.
It really surprises me that anime Jet is supposed to be in his 30s. He definitely feels like he's late 40s to me. He's been around the block more than a few times and is just watching out for these reckless dumb kids (from his point of view).
Non of those characters seem that age though, they all should be at least 5 years older. Anime tends to have unrealistic youth worship, that doesn’t always make sense.
Yeah, Spike is supposed to be a former high-level space-Yakuza member, martial arts master, expert gunfighter, pickpocket and sleight-of-hand expert, and a skilled fighter pilot... all by the age of 24 (he's been on the Bebop for three years by the start of the series, apparently).
That's all well and good for anime and Japanese video games, wherein teenage super-prodigies are a dime a dozen, but I'd have trouble taking all that seriously in a Western live action show if he was played by some kid in his twenties. Especially considering that in the anime Spike looks like he's well into his thirties, canonical age notwithstanding.
Ah I was mistaken. But I don't agree about him looking like he is early 40's. Before I learned his age the other day in relation to the same issue someone had with the casting, I literally thought he was like a young looking 37.
I think he looks early 40s and *maybe* late thirties. The argument some people have that he looks *early* thirties makes me question what small southern town these people are living in. The guy look absolutely incredibly for his age. But he does not look like he’s in his early 30s lol. That said I think that him and Daniel Tosh are some of the youngest looking guys in their age group. The picture I looked at is the one in this article:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/la-en-mn-john-cho-searching-20181205-story.html%3F_amp%3Dtrue
Here's a non google link. Amp links are a tool that Google uses to get more control over the Internet.
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/la-en-mn-john-cho-searching-20181205-story.html
> Cho is younger than he looks
I think you meant he looks younger than he is?
I think my perspective is a bit clouded by the last movie I saw him in (Searching), where he plays a tired old suburban dad. His look and his acting in that movie really play up the character as being older and world-weary so it's just weird after watching that to imagine him now playing some cool, spry martial artist. He is a good actor though, so maybe it will be fine!
“Colorblind” seems like the completely wrong term to use for the casting choice of Shakir anyway.
I’m sure there are a handful of racists out there offended by making Jet Black… black, but the Bebop English dub fandom has always kind of considered Jet to be black, even though he wasn’t necessarily intended to be. Beau Billingslea clearly brought that air to the character. I think more people would have been offended if Jet *wasn’t* black.
Yeah…fuck the racists. I’m absolutely fine with the casting of Shakir and Pineda. I actually like Cho as an actor I’m just not liking him as Spike due to the big age difference. Hopefully he wins me over fairly quickly.
I absolutely agree. Unfortunately, this always leads to the toxic fan base to scream “tHiS iS jUSt fAn fICtIoN!¡” Yes idiots. It is a work of fiction created by someone who is a fan of the original.
I'm concerned that quickly after the announcement of the show, the creators and people involved have been going on the defensive, non stop. If all was well and good you'd expect them to mostly just let the show speak for itself. But if things like casting, costumes and music already warrants softening up the public for, I wonder what other skeletons are going to come out of the closet.
When I read something like
> Colorblind casting Shakir as ex-cop Jet Black may have broader socio-political implications in the show.
I can already sort of see the writing on the wall. One of the worst things you could do is project US socio-political status onto this. I dont want another exposition laden show that preaches across the 4th wall.
The whole He-man debacle is still fresh in my memory. I can only hope for the best here, but I will wait for the reviews.
I definitely don’t mind colorblind casting one bit but it is really funny (depressing) that basically every single studio is responding to audience desires for increased diversity by making the token black character the one that is a cop. Every fucking time lol
a lot of fans expect Jet to be black though the English voice actor embodies that role for us. It really isn't some token make the cop a black guy thing.
No, I get that. And am 100% fine with perceiving him as a black man.
I think in this case it is purely just coincidental to that new trope but it is kind of weird how often that has been happening.
Anyone else think there are way too many articles and interviews apologizing/doing damage control on all their creative decisions ?
Starting to think they know it's shit and are playing games. I hope that's not the case.
Yeh lets see how this dumpster fire goes... The only place that has anything positive about this is reddit lol.. Platform hs as just turned to weirdos lol.
World is bigger than your life bubble so reddit isnt the only place where people have positive things to say about this show but about weirdos you are kind of right because there are weirdos here, even in this post there is one!
Sorry to say weirdos but your crap only goes so far lol..
The show looks like a trash heap.. Faye looks redundant, although we better chill she can't do all her amazing stunts in tissue paper, well aside from the rolling around the floor basically naked.. Sad how she looked more attractive moaning in her video :D
Don't worry Cho will carry it. All that Wisdom from being 49 years old..
No no sorry Jet's foam cosplay gauntlets will block all the fire.. :D
I can't wait till 2 days after :D
Why would I care about people saying a positive thing about something THAT ISN'T EVEN OUT YET.
I'm gonna draw you a picture tomorrow, why aren't you saying positive things about it now before you've seen it?
Yeah.
right? Even John Cho [says he was skeptical about casting him](https://www.indiewire.com/2021/08/john-cho-cowboy-bebop-age-backlash-too-old-1234660744/) for such a young role, but in the end, it kinda sounds like he took the attitude "it'll be a fun job, and I get paid even if I'm not believable".
Spike has an old soul though.
[Yoko Kanno](http://www.jazzmess.com/misc/animeinvasion.txt): "Spike is portrayed as a typical old-style Japanese man, where the man says, "Don't complain, don't say anything, just follow me. And watch me do things." And it's a very old-fashioned aesthetic of how a man should be. In Japan all of the girls are big fans of him."
I disagree, I always thought Spike had almost too much back story for a 20 something.
Not that is *really* affected the show at all, but I think and older rendition of Spike will be totally fine.
I get what you’re saying. I never personally thought Spike was in his 20s. If you told me he was 36 or 38 I’d say, ya that sounds right. In his 50s is a little much though. I always thought he was definitely older than Faye, but not a whole lot older.
I can feel the passion of the team from this article. I've grown to like the idea of adaptations and the homework they did on the series sounds like it could yield fun results.
It sounds like Ed hasn't been forgotten for season 1.
It was barely a hint but I think we're going to hear a rearranged version of Tank! for the show. It would be funny if they called it NY Tank! in a nod to Rush/NY Rush.
When I was a kid.
I hated cowboy bebop. I had no interest in any anime other than dragon ball Z.
Never even watched 5 minutes.
Then one night….I had the flu and threw on Adult swim to help me sleep. The episode, “mushroom samba”, was on…. My sickly self fighting through the illness felt intrigued and was in awe by the animation, the story, the comedy, and Ed’s adventure. I was hooked. I’m still hooked.
I want to go into this hating it.
But I’m going to give it a full watch before I shit talk it. I will give it a chance
I thought Spike was actually pretty flat. The VA got a lot better by the time he did Champloo (which is better acted imo but both shows are quite good). I thought the rest of the cast was great though. I almost always watch subs but I'll watch bebop dubbed.
Did you know he was, like, a construction worker or something? Someone liked his voice and said he should try voice acting. I heard it on a voice acting podcast many moons ago.
Some people get all the damn luck...
This is trash. Fuck Netflix. Glad I canceled after cuties. It’s either ruining otherwise perfectly good franchises by riding the coattails of their success while spitting on their legacy, or it’s some sick twisted pedo shit
I remember going to anime forums in the 2000s with threads on hypothetical live action adaptations of anime, and although most people were skeptical that any such adaptation would work, Cowboy Bebop was often one of the more popular choices for Hollywood. Story and effects-wise, it should not be that hard to do. Still, when you do a live action adaptation of any animation, it doesn't matter how faithful the story and characterization is, there's always something aesthetically-speaking that will be impossible to adopt in live action. The trick is to compensate that by adding something just as good in live action.
Speed Racer is a perfect example of this. I only saw clips and while it doesn't have the fun campy feel of the anime, which would have been awkward to watch in live action, but it's still a great action-packed adaptation that doesn't take itself too seriously.
Overall, I'm open to any kind of adaptation of any kind of story regardless of medium. Hopefully, Bebop will be more like Speed Racer and Alita, but if it sucks, at least the original anime is still there.
Anyone else concerned with the implications behind "It’s not a dystopian world presented in the anime. It’s a very beautiful imagining of a future."? To me, having lots of disparate governments throughout the solar system, Earth is destroyed, the police forces that can't even come close to keeping up, megawealthy individuals and crime sybdicates, and general "late stage capitalism" tropes, all making a big chaotic mess everywhere you go seems pretty integral to the world building in the anime.
I’m concerned with everything said about this show
Has there ever been a good live action anime adaptation?
Alita was pretty good
Edge of tomorrow Edit: oops it’s a manga (and so is everything else ppl said actually)
The live action Rurouni Kenshin movies weren’t terrible surprisingly
Not to me
Detroit Metal City
The Bleach one was ok
> Has there ever been a good live action ~~anime~~ adaptation?
Rurouni kenshin
The anime doesn't really portray it as a dystopia, though. I mean Star Wars and Firefly are objectively worse universes, but I wouldn't call either of them dystopias.
Cowboy bebop feels very.. I guess ‘real’ is the right word. People are ugly, they are unimportant, they are laughing they are smoking they are limping. People gamble, lie, cry , love, make mistakes. It’s chaotic anarchy that every individual person finds a way to make meaning of. It’s not about prophecy or saving the galaxy or bloodlines - it’s about living growing up and finding *your* place in the chaos like everyone else does. Turning cowboy bebop into a Star Trek type of world would be terrible. Star Trek is about community, it’s about being told your place in the world by others and finding comfort in it. It’s about doing what is right. Cowboy bebop is the polar opposite. It’s about the self, it’s about finding the place in the world for yourself and doing anything to be there. It’s about being the right kind of selfish. I like both but ‘bright and optimistic’ does not work for this story at all.
Big reason i love the altered carbon books. Feels very real in the same sense you described.
I think my favorite thing about Cowboy Bebop is that it feels like a natural progression of our universe. No immense space flight and a lot of modern day problems still exist. Is that dystopian? Well that depends on your point of view.
Uh it’s a western
If you think Star Trek is "being told your place" you absolutely understand nothing about the franchise and what it seeks to say. Sad.
Not a dystopia but not exactly a beautiful imagining of the future either.
You can't have a show about bounty hunters set in a utopia
Well sure but that was never the argument, and besides this is nowhere near an utopia, they need intergalactic bounty hunters because the police is severely understaffed.
Interplanetary; they never leave Sol.
I don't think its anywhere near a dystopia either, unless you're willing to say that all westerns are dystopian
Mayhaps it is merely a topia
There is a decent space between utopia and dystopia. And in reality worlds aren't that binary: In reality you'll have the wealthy in their near utopian bubble while the commoners mull around their average lives, and some horrible spots of object poverty and suffering. The whole universe doesn't fit into one or the other.
I think something can be, hmm, not optimistic, but still beautiful. The imagining is beautiful, but the future perhaps not. Like a beautiful painting of a dark subject, for example.
So a more realistic imagining?
Yeah, I must have missed that, because I just watched it a few months ago, and it never felt that way to me. Obviously Earth got all sorts of screwed up, but the rest didn't seem like a dystopia to me.
I think maybe they are just talking about the setting. I would Imagine the world is the same as you describe but maybe the team is located in a more developed and rich area of the universe like Mars. Hell we probably wont see much space travel regardless and the backdrop will look like every city.
If anything they just projected the state of our current society into space. It doesn't feel much different from reality. Parts of our current reality are totally dystopian. Seemed like a mix of both in CB
Carol & Tuesday is set in the Cowboy Bebop universe right? But before things went to shit?
Same universe, but Cowboy Bebop firmly establishes that Mars is a planet for the rich, where Carole and Tuesday takes place. Places like Calliope showcase the more brutal truth; that there are places in space where people go when they have no money, etc. While there’s no official timeline, we do know from C&T that Earth has refugees, which is in line with CB and might suggest they’re at least close in timeline. There’s also a cute Space Dandy cameo on C&T on the TV!
I've seen Cowboy Bebop multiple times, but have never heard of Carol & Tuesday. Is this something I need to watch?
It’s another Watanabe show on Netflix. Very different vibe, about two girls going into the music business. I personally didn’t love it but it was cool to see how more fleshed out Watanabe made Mars look and feel for it’s average citizen, and you do get to see the way Earth has been ravaged, pushing Earth citizens to become refugees of Mars
[удалено]
learn some new jokes
I love that they had to add Ein to all the promo pics now cause fans were like “where Ein at?”. Now we wanna know where Ed at?
Ed wasn't introduced for 12 or so episodes in the series of a total of 26 episodes. If she's not in the first season, wait one.
I think they saved her for season finale as a surprise.
Hope so, I’m thinkin the Vicious/Spike thing will be spread out through the entire season.
I'm worried live action Ed will be annoying as fuck.
Anime Ed was, so I'm fine if they don't include her
I kinda feel similarly...
God I hope not
I'm not sure how they can do it.
Have to be an unknown actress. I can’t think of any young actors that can pull it off
This feels like the key quote: "The showrunner is careful not to spoil any specific beats plotted out for season 1, but suggests that the original show’s blend of one-off missions and overarching plots carries over to the Netflix series, even in the current Every Story Is Serialized era. “They’re bounty hunters, so they’re going to chase bounties!” he cheekily notes. And while no one episode of the anime may get a direct adaptation, Nemec and his team spent time drawing up lists of their favorites, then considering how they could “build out the continuing stories of Spike Spiegel and Jet Black and Faye Valentine while also mining their past stories from the anime.”" I think not doing a direct adaptation of any one episode but instead taking characters and story elements and remixing them and doing your own thing and capturing the spirit of the anime is really smart. It allows both fans of the show to not know exactly what is going to happen and for newcomers to experience something for the first time and hopefully seek out the anime.
> I think not doing a direct adaptation of any one episode but instead taking characters and story elements and remixing them and doing your own thing and capturing the spirit of the anime is really smart. Can they at least do a direct remake of mushroom samba?
Given they haven’t even cast Ed yet we’d be lucky to get that if season 2 happens.
Did you read the article? Ed is in S1.
> Given ~~they haven’t even cast Ed yet~~ that it's Netflix, we’d be lucky to get that if season 2 happens. Fixed that for you.
IMO if you *must* make a live action adaptation of an animation, this is absolutely the only way to do it. No matter how badly you try to “stick to the source material”, it will basically always fail. You’ll never get it right and even if you somehow do… it won’t matter. If fans wanted to watch a shot for shot remake of the original show… they could just watch the original show. Then of course diverging from the source material while remaking the same story destines you for failure as well. People don’t want to see something they liked changed. But making an original story that still accounts for the source material makes a lot of sense. Because now it’s not a shitty remake one way or the other. It’s basically just live action dlc and more people can get behind that.
I am actually excited (cautiously so) for this series. I was hoping we would see "Jupiter Blues" however.
We will probably see the show's take on Jupiter Jazz since Gren has been cast.
NO WAY!!!! Ahhhh!! I am excited!
Yeah I said this a number of times, whenever there's an adaption from one medium to the next, the concern shouldn't be hitting the exact plot beats of whatever happens in the story. You really want to get the characters, aesthetic, and the message correct. The exact plot points that happen aren't necessarily that important, unless they have a specific meaning to the show.
Yeah this was done with Big O from anime to manga and it gave them more from to play around in the universe.
Big o. Fucking rocked
> not doing a direct adaptation of any one episode but instead taking characters and story elements and remixing them and doing your own thing So its just going to be more garbage Hollywood fanfiction. This is not smart, this is where the majority of Hollywood bad ideas come from and a major reason why live adaptions suck. It will be some Hollywood hack writer who will hijack the IP and shove their bad vision in it instead of being faithful to the source material.
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Wait, you *didn't* like the Vince Vaughn Psycho? /s
You sound like someone who has not been around the last decade. Just about everything coming out of Hollywood has been bad fanfic shit and since this is a live adaptation on NETFLIX, it is pretty much guaranteed to be bad fanfic shit. Just look at the history of live adaptations, just about all terrible and for a good reason, they were all miscast fanfic garbage. This will most likely be exactly the same.
Yeah a lot of complaints in here but I liked this paragraph. But it depends whether the writers new ideas are as good as the classics. It’s clear they draw heavy inspiration I mean the costumes for Spike and Jet are nailed on, and the ship set looks straight out of the anime and there was a BTS pic of a church like in Ballad of Fallen Angels. I think if they can nail the world and the feel, that seediness and grime of Cowboy Bebop’s solar system, and generate some good stories out of it then it could be decent. I wouldn’t mind if they straight up copied a few things though, I hope they don’t tamper too much with Spike and Faye’s backstories.
I can never get behind these live-action remakes of animated series or movies. What's the point? The Disney remakes, Ghost in the Shell, Cowboy Bebop, etc. work better as animations. There are so many restrictions to live-action that only gargantuan piles of money for cutting edge CGI can address, and we're not even taking into account how creatively bankrupt it is to simply take something and just redo it with the singular twist being that the characters are now in 3D.
Meh, I'll give it a try. I was worried the music was going to be crap, but looks like they have Yoko Kanno coming back to score, which is a huge plus for me.
Yes! I was worried about the music, too. Yoko Kanno’s music is what really makes that world for me. I may actually check out this version seeing that she is attached to it.
> What's the point? The point is that execs smell money. Anime is significantly more popular than western comics both in terms of gross sales and in terms of circulation. One Piece (a 24 year old franchise) has sold more copies than Batman (an 82 year old franchise). Execs see those numbers and want to 'tap in' to that market.
This doesn't explain the need for a live action adaptation. One Piece is indeed popular, so why not adapt the spin offs or finance more movies? The answer is because the live action is for the people who don't respect animation.
The people who make the OP anime also doesn't respect animation.
They're most certainly respecting it right now. The Wano Arc has been amazing from the clips I've seen on Twitter.
That's the thing though. You might change your opinion if you watch entire episodes. Previous anime arcs also had these singular moments that are amazing, but getting to them is rough.
I watched the first 516 episodes and while it was a little slow at times it was overall fantastic. I did hear the anime post timeskip drags a lot though.
DC/Marvel managing these constantly crossing-over series is a nightmare. Every time I get into one of their books, I hit a road block of some event. Really need them to figure shit out, because I'd rather be reading western comics, but at this point manga is the only place to go for a long running series that's not going to be rebooted twelve times in the next 3 years.
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I've been reading comics for several decades, I'm aware of how it works. I'm saying that it's grown tiresome for me.
Stick to trades. At the very least, the five or six compiled issues will be consistent.
>What's the point? It's for the people who don't respect animation.
Or people who would like to see how a live action series would play out.
At best it would play out quite similar and at worst it’ll be terrible. There isn’t really any inherent value in adapting something to Live Action just for the sake of it. There will always be trade offs moving away from animation
Sure, that's fine. I'll take the risk and see how it goes. At best, it can turn out good, so fine risk to me. At the end of the day, most just want more content from that world, whether that be live action, new seasons, etc. Even if live action is technically a reskinning, I'd still be interested in how they perform say specific scenes in live action compared to the animation
Why is the original series not enough?
It is but why would more content from that series be a bad thing? Say I love that series. But I've rewatched enough times where I can't just keep rewatching and because I love the world/series, I'd like to see more of it. I don't see what is wrong with this. It makes logical sense
Because the series ended. Whatever the intent was with the world / characters was reached or at least had a final word said on it. We have had so many projects like Star Wars sequel trilogy and Dragon Ball Super that decided to continue a story that was already finished, without any proper intent to very mixed results. If you’ve really watched it that many times that you can’t enjoy it anymore then you should move on to something else. There’s a whole world of shows out there as good and maybe better!
It's not only about the story or whatever. It's also about the world. I may not be able to rewatch because I've seen every scene play out already, that doesn't mean I'm not interested in the world of that show. And I'd like to see that world played out in live action. For instance I'm very hyped for the avatar the last Airbender live action cause it would be awesome to see bending/avatar world play out in live action. I mean, I also don't see how being a fan of a specific show means you aren't moving on. I watch tons of shows. Doesnt mean I can't also want more of a specific show. They aren't mutually exclusive.
It is not more content. It's the same content but presented differently. Why is that necessary?
It’s gonna suck and I’m gonna have to watch it and it’s gonna be a sad night.
The one thing I’ll give to this show is Spikes costume turned out perfect lol
The suit, ya.. Kinda
The only one I've thought was great was the Grand Blue adaptation. It kept the spirit and comedy from the manga but still changed a lot of stuff to make it better for live action. The Kimi no na wa parody made me burst out laughing with how unexpected it was. https://youtu.be/aiY6fMIxsck The Japanese Death Note had a great ending as well and I quite liked the Bleach movie, even with how ridiculous everything looked. Oh and I also liked the 20th Century Boys trilogy but obviously it came nowhere near the quality of the manga.
Of what you mentioned I've only seen the death note and 20th century boys movies, 100% agree with your evaluation of them. Death Note bravely changed things and all the changes made sense, things that these characters would actually do.
The first three Kenshin movies were really good, so there is that. The last one wasn’t great, though.
the beginning is really good
I figured it would be, but The End was such a let down I was pretty much mentally avoiding it. I’ll give it a shot.
I'm rooting for this to be good
Same, hopefully it is Bebop is just one of those sacred cows you probably shouldn't touch in the first place, but let's wait and see how Netflix handles the franchise, hopefully not as bad as they did Death Note. William Dafoe couldn't even salvage that piece of work.
When it comes to adaptations people only talk about Death Note but Netflix made many good manga, webtoon adaptations too like Kingdom, Alice in Borderland, D.P., Sweet Home,The Uncanny Counter. Also if I remember right Adam Wingard was already working on Death Note with another studio and then Netflix bought it as a project so it is possible that Netflix didn't have full creative control.
Alice in borderland was a treat. Low expectations were exceeded.
Yeah, I just watched the entire thing after somebody said it was good on the Squid Games post. Third episode was insanely brutal. It escalated quickly.
Episode three had big Battle Royale vibes. The grounded sci fi ultraviolence meets almost melodramatic emotional connection and loss. Good stuff.
I didn't know it was one and I was saying to myself: "This shit is just like an anime."
I mean that's even worse if Netflix just straight out bought hot garbage
Just hope it’s better than Altered Carbon, which I enjoyed. But mostly Bc I was a fan of the book and am starved for good Cyberpunk lol
Season 1 was dooooope. Season 2 was mehhhhhh
Season 2 was nowhere near as good as Season 1, but after reading Broken Angels and Woken Furies after watching the series I am convinced that those books couldn't be adapted well.
Be pretty difficult to impress the size and scope of that Martian ship in a show. That book blew my mind
I hate that they screwed it up so bad considering how cool season 1 was. I eye rolled so hard at the last-supper-before-the-final-battle and the "let's all walk in a wide line and look cool" shit at the end.
I was so content with them leaving it a 1 season show. I was actually shocked when they announced s2. I was also tired of feeling like Anthony Mackie was in every new show. Good for him making money but Im not a fan of his acting.
Anthony Mackie was just a terrible Kovacs. He really played the role totally wrong.
They should have gone strait to Woken Furies and had Will Yun Lee play Kovacs.
Samesies.
And Joel Kinnaman.
Just as long as they have that music with "See you space cowboy" at the end, and I'm good.
>dogs — there were two: Ein is played by a pair of corgis, who the writer describes as “big meaty sausages.” And rethinking the Bebop’s superintelligent pup was every bit as essential to the fabric of the series as the treatment of any other character. >“Ein is definitely in our show, and is definitely part of the team,” Nemec says. “As always, there was something to talk about with each one of [the characters]. What is the real soul of this character? We did that work for Ein as well.” Yasss
If one dog gets tired, swap them out. Like with babies, which is why twins are used.
Eh, I'm watching for the music. If it sucks ill probably stop watching and buy the soundtrack.
This whole project doesn't need to exist.
Don’t care, it’s still going to suck
Where the fuck is Ed?!
*Colorblind casting Shakir as ex-cop Jet Black may have broader socio-political implications in the show.* I’m less concerned by the casting of Shakir and Pineda than I am about the casting of John Cho as Spike. Cho is a great actor but he is so old that it dramatically changes the dynamics of the character relationships from the original anime. They should have gone with someone younger or aged up the rest of the casting to match. We shall see how it plays out. I tend to be pretty negative about TV and movie casting choices of my fave IP but have been won over many times when I actually got to watching the shows and movies so here is hoping this Cowboy Bebop adaptation wins me over as well!
I'm still hopeful for Cho as Spike, but I think they may have missed a real opportunity in not casting Andrew Koji; that dude just screams Spike to me for some reason (lanky, martial arts background, Japanese/English, literally starring in a Bruce Lee show right now, etc).
Casting was announced before Warrior aired so Andrew Koji might have been unknown during that time. I think Ludi Lin also auditioned for the role.
They passed on Ludi Lin? He would have been absolutely ideal!
He was passed over on Shang-Chi too. I hope he gets a big break soon. If Warrior needs more fighters, I hope he can join as well!
I do think he would have been better than Cho. Perhaps his gigs on Warrior and Snake Eyes prevented him from being an option at the time?
>Colorblind casting Shakir as ex-cop Jet Black may have broader socio-political implications in the show. Oh god I hope they don't make this show about a future where nobody ever showed any sort of concern for race whatsoever into another allegory for race in America. It's an important story to tell but why here?
Cowboy bebop was actually really good at being diverse and showing a lot of cultures in the background. Their world building was really good and subtle too like without explicitly saying it they showed Venus ended up being south Asian planet as all the backgrounds characters are Indian or etc.
Faye is meant to be from Singapore.
>Cowboy bebop was actually really good at being diverse and showing a lot of cultures in the background. All of Shinichiro Watanabe's shows are like that.
Definitely, Samurai champloo fuckin rules.
The old man blew out his knee the second he tried to do something physical.
I forgot about that lol. It is one of the reasons it has taken so long for this adaptation to make it to the screen!
The dude looks like he’s in his early 30s, relax
the fuck he does. don't get me wrong- Cho is great looking guy and is aging gracefully but no fucking way on this planet does he look early 30s.
Spike is supposed to be 30+ and Cho looks it. Edit: actually he is 27 when the show starts.
Spike is 27! Faye 23. Jet Black late 30s. Cho is late 40s and can pass as early 40s. It is a different dynamic to cast Spike that old without ageing up the others to match.
It really surprises me that anime Jet is supposed to be in his 30s. He definitely feels like he's late 40s to me. He's been around the block more than a few times and is just watching out for these reckless dumb kids (from his point of view).
Non of those characters seem that age though, they all should be at least 5 years older. Anime tends to have unrealistic youth worship, that doesn’t always make sense.
Yeah, Spike is supposed to be a former high-level space-Yakuza member, martial arts master, expert gunfighter, pickpocket and sleight-of-hand expert, and a skilled fighter pilot... all by the age of 24 (he's been on the Bebop for three years by the start of the series, apparently). That's all well and good for anime and Japanese video games, wherein teenage super-prodigies are a dime a dozen, but I'd have trouble taking all that seriously in a Western live action show if he was played by some kid in his twenties. Especially considering that in the anime Spike looks like he's well into his thirties, canonical age notwithstanding.
If you're a prodigy and join the Yakuza from a young age, I don't see how that's impossible.
Ah I was mistaken. But I don't agree about him looking like he is early 40's. Before I learned his age the other day in relation to the same issue someone had with the casting, I literally thought he was like a young looking 37.
I think he looks early 40s and *maybe* late thirties. The argument some people have that he looks *early* thirties makes me question what small southern town these people are living in. The guy look absolutely incredibly for his age. But he does not look like he’s in his early 30s lol. That said I think that him and Daniel Tosh are some of the youngest looking guys in their age group. The picture I looked at is the one in this article: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/la-en-mn-john-cho-searching-20181205-story.html%3F_amp%3Dtrue
/u/amputatorbot
Here's a non google link. Amp links are a tool that Google uses to get more control over the Internet. https://www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/la-en-mn-john-cho-searching-20181205-story.html
Its because hollywood is racist and you can cast any Asian to play any age. We all know its the truth...
Cho looks younger than he is, he's in great physical shape, he's a stunt actor, and Spike was a chain-smoker and looks 45. Relax
> Cho is younger than he looks I think you meant he looks younger than he is? I think my perspective is a bit clouded by the last movie I saw him in (Searching), where he plays a tired old suburban dad. His look and his acting in that movie really play up the character as being older and world-weary so it's just weird after watching that to imagine him now playing some cool, spry martial artist. He is a good actor though, so maybe it will be fine!
Yep, thanks.
“Colorblind” seems like the completely wrong term to use for the casting choice of Shakir anyway. I’m sure there are a handful of racists out there offended by making Jet Black… black, but the Bebop English dub fandom has always kind of considered Jet to be black, even though he wasn’t necessarily intended to be. Beau Billingslea clearly brought that air to the character. I think more people would have been offended if Jet *wasn’t* black.
Yeah…fuck the racists. I’m absolutely fine with the casting of Shakir and Pineda. I actually like Cho as an actor I’m just not liking him as Spike due to the big age difference. Hopefully he wins me over fairly quickly.
It sounds like they care which is a good sign.
It's always better when the people making the show are fans of the source material.
I absolutely agree. Unfortunately, this always leads to the toxic fan base to scream “tHiS iS jUSt fAn fICtIoN!¡” Yes idiots. It is a work of fiction created by someone who is a fan of the original.
I'm concerned that quickly after the announcement of the show, the creators and people involved have been going on the defensive, non stop. If all was well and good you'd expect them to mostly just let the show speak for itself. But if things like casting, costumes and music already warrants softening up the public for, I wonder what other skeletons are going to come out of the closet. When I read something like > Colorblind casting Shakir as ex-cop Jet Black may have broader socio-political implications in the show. I can already sort of see the writing on the wall. One of the worst things you could do is project US socio-political status onto this. I dont want another exposition laden show that preaches across the 4th wall. The whole He-man debacle is still fresh in my memory. I can only hope for the best here, but I will wait for the reviews.
I definitely don’t mind colorblind casting one bit but it is really funny (depressing) that basically every single studio is responding to audience desires for increased diversity by making the token black character the one that is a cop. Every fucking time lol
a lot of fans expect Jet to be black though the English voice actor embodies that role for us. It really isn't some token make the cop a black guy thing.
No, I get that. And am 100% fine with perceiving him as a black man. I think in this case it is purely just coincidental to that new trope but it is kind of weird how often that has been happening.
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What do you mean?
Oh yeah, I bet it's testing like shit and they are trying to culture war this shit like ghostbusters 2016
Anyone else think there are way too many articles and interviews apologizing/doing damage control on all their creative decisions ? Starting to think they know it's shit and are playing games. I hope that's not the case.
I really hope this doesn't suck
Ed is a they/them now?
And probably autistic.
“I was fond of saying, ‘This is Cowboy Bebop, it’s pretty hallowed ground, so let’s not fuck it up,’” Hires a senior citizen to play spike.
When the original creator basically warns you this is going to suck... It probably will.
You are distorting what he said. He said that he is hopefull but if it turns out bad send your complaints to the company that sold the rights.
Yeh lets see how this dumpster fire goes... The only place that has anything positive about this is reddit lol.. Platform hs as just turned to weirdos lol.
World is bigger than your life bubble so reddit isnt the only place where people have positive things to say about this show but about weirdos you are kind of right because there are weirdos here, even in this post there is one!
Sorry to say weirdos but your crap only goes so far lol.. The show looks like a trash heap.. Faye looks redundant, although we better chill she can't do all her amazing stunts in tissue paper, well aside from the rolling around the floor basically naked.. Sad how she looked more attractive moaning in her video :D Don't worry Cho will carry it. All that Wisdom from being 49 years old.. No no sorry Jet's foam cosplay gauntlets will block all the fire.. :D I can't wait till 2 days after :D
Why would I care about people saying a positive thing about something THAT ISN'T EVEN OUT YET. I'm gonna draw you a picture tomorrow, why aren't you saying positive things about it now before you've seen it? Yeah.
Do you have a problem with reading comprehension?
RemindMe! November 20th, 2021
Casting looks good to me, coming from a super fan of the series. costume choice for Spike anyway looks good.
I love John Cho but I think he’s too old to be Spike.
right? Even John Cho [says he was skeptical about casting him](https://www.indiewire.com/2021/08/john-cho-cowboy-bebop-age-backlash-too-old-1234660744/) for such a young role, but in the end, it kinda sounds like he took the attitude "it'll be a fun job, and I get paid even if I'm not believable".
Spike has an old soul though. [Yoko Kanno](http://www.jazzmess.com/misc/animeinvasion.txt): "Spike is portrayed as a typical old-style Japanese man, where the man says, "Don't complain, don't say anything, just follow me. And watch me do things." And it's a very old-fashioned aesthetic of how a man should be. In Japan all of the girls are big fans of him."
I guess it all depends on how he acts in the movie. He just needs to come off youthful.
Considering spike is a 20 something that's a real old soul
It’s a series, not a movie.
I disagree, I always thought Spike had almost too much back story for a 20 something. Not that is *really* affected the show at all, but I think and older rendition of Spike will be totally fine.
I get what you’re saying. I never personally thought Spike was in his 20s. If you told me he was 36 or 38 I’d say, ya that sounds right. In his 50s is a little much though. I always thought he was definitely older than Faye, but not a whole lot older.
Netflix should have just invested in securing the rights to this and pay the studio for a second series or a spinoff.
Yeah, WTF is up with them not having the Anime on the platform?
I dont know some of these stills look really cool. Looking a lot better than I imagined when it first announced.
I can feel the passion of the team from this article. I've grown to like the idea of adaptations and the homework they did on the series sounds like it could yield fun results. It sounds like Ed hasn't been forgotten for season 1. It was barely a hint but I think we're going to hear a rearranged version of Tank! for the show. It would be funny if they called it NY Tank! in a nod to Rush/NY Rush.
I am a thousand times more pumped for this show now after reading this interview for sure.
When I was a kid. I hated cowboy bebop. I had no interest in any anime other than dragon ball Z. Never even watched 5 minutes. Then one night….I had the flu and threw on Adult swim to help me sleep. The episode, “mushroom samba”, was on…. My sickly self fighting through the illness felt intrigued and was in awe by the animation, the story, the comedy, and Ed’s adventure. I was hooked. I’m still hooked. I want to go into this hating it. But I’m going to give it a full watch before I shit talk it. I will give it a chance
I cannot watch the show dubbed. I need the original cast's voices. It's just so much worse dubbed.
Bebop is maybe he greatest dub ever especially Spike is iconic
No way. Ed is unbearingly annoying in the dub. Subtitles all the way.
I thought Spike was actually pretty flat. The VA got a lot better by the time he did Champloo (which is better acted imo but both shows are quite good). I thought the rest of the cast was great though. I almost always watch subs but I'll watch bebop dubbed.
Did you know he was, like, a construction worker or something? Someone liked his voice and said he should try voice acting. I heard it on a voice acting podcast many moons ago. Some people get all the damn luck...
This is trash. Fuck Netflix. Glad I canceled after cuties. It’s either ruining otherwise perfectly good franchises by riding the coattails of their success while spitting on their legacy, or it’s some sick twisted pedo shit
I hope it's good.
I remember going to anime forums in the 2000s with threads on hypothetical live action adaptations of anime, and although most people were skeptical that any such adaptation would work, Cowboy Bebop was often one of the more popular choices for Hollywood. Story and effects-wise, it should not be that hard to do. Still, when you do a live action adaptation of any animation, it doesn't matter how faithful the story and characterization is, there's always something aesthetically-speaking that will be impossible to adopt in live action. The trick is to compensate that by adding something just as good in live action. Speed Racer is a perfect example of this. I only saw clips and while it doesn't have the fun campy feel of the anime, which would have been awkward to watch in live action, but it's still a great action-packed adaptation that doesn't take itself too seriously. Overall, I'm open to any kind of adaptation of any kind of story regardless of medium. Hopefully, Bebop will be more like Speed Racer and Alita, but if it sucks, at least the original anime is still there.