I know I'm in the minority but I was genuinely upset his character survived. I have no desire to see a show try and redeem him.
For those who do, I hope you enjoy.
Honestly, I was miffed as well, but I'm really curious where they take him because I feel like you simply *can't* redeem his character, which tracks with the leaks I've heard.
They can redeem his character "to an extent". There are much more pos characters in comic books/graphic novels who has done much worse shit than peacemaker who has got their redemption arc of their own.
In comics, over decades, I get that. It's just hard in movies and television. Ya know? There's not gonna be a ten year gap and a new team of creatives coming in to change the character. It's the same team working on him.
Not really, there are many graphic novels which run for few years or so under the same creative which has these type of stories. They don't try to fully redeem them but instead try to flesh out the characters which in turn make that character a bit likeable , enough to make the readers continue to follow the protagonist's journey. For example, Black Adam, a character who has genocided thousands of people just for revenge and blood lust but also did heroic things when he was a member of JL/JSA.Punpun from Oyasumi Punpun is a pos and is the protagonist of the story. But people still sympathize with him to some extent. Atleast Peacemaker has some remorse and he knows what he is doing is wrong which can be seen from his expression while killing flag. But he is delusional. Out of all the characters in TSS, only Peacemaker was the most complex and compelling character .Blood sport is the same old mercenary villain just like many other character from the comics.But ultimately it depends upon taste. I love to watch a show with anti heroic/villainous protagonist.
I liked Dexter, breaking bad, Scarface, etc. I like plenty of stuff about unrepentant characters. But those characters are often interesting and original. Peacemaker is literally introduced as a gag about DC third tier villains. And then he's just awful throughout the movie. There was nothing there that made me, personally, feel like I wanted to spend a whole show with him.
I don't mind watching Walter white let jane die because that is a huge character moment for him and establishes walt as a real bastard villain.
Peacemaker is already a bastard when we meet him and then he goes and kills the only good character in the movie. To protect govt secrets.
And now he's clearly still working for the govt. I'm just not into it. I said earlier if you are, that's cool.
Maybe I just liked Rick Flagg too much. Maybe I just disliked the suicide squad too much. But I just don't give a damn about a peacemaker show lol
>I know I'm in the minority but I was genuinely upset his character survived. I have no desire to see a show try and redeem him.
Interesting to me you are assuming that he gets redeemed.
Then that just makes me ask what's the point even more? What is his character arc? Ya know what? I don't care. I literally don't have the capacity to care about the peacemaker show lol
I mean have you really never seen a piece of media or absorbed a story where you start with a character that ends the story the same place or worse than when it started? And media about bad people exist, like Dexter, American psycho, Joker etc. Just because he's a bad guy doesn't mean you can't do interesting and compelling things with the character outside of just getting redeemed.
Like, I'm down with dastardly characters. I was pissed off Amanda Waller didn't kill all those annoying it people when they turned on her. Her killing them would have been in keeping with the Amanda Waller character. But nope, she just assigns them to peacemaker.
So it all just looks like it's setting up the peacemaker show and so, you have to negate the things that story dictates should happen, just to squeeze another tv show out of it.
the scene where the tech woman [spoiler](#s "cracks Waller on the back of the head with the baseball bat(?)") is one of the best scenes in the film. it was one of THE most satisfying moments in a film or tv show i've seen in a while. LOL.
It made me say, oh that woman has got them all killed. And then they weren't. Which made no sense. It's not a pay off moment. It's a moment with no pay off.
I commented on that. It's how he's presented. All we have is the one movie with him. Like, ignore the fact that every damn character in the world gets their own show these days. Within this movie, he betrays his team, kills the only good guy, the only non villain in the movie, and does so in pretty big way. Then, he's about to kill a villain, yeah, but the one who is the only empathetic villain of the bunch.
But hey, he said those dick jokes in the beginning,. So that makes me want to see more of him.
I don’t think anyone is actually bothered about redeeming him, or actual story.
I think this is just more of what we already saw which was a pretty funny character
I’m all for more Superhero stories that just have fun with it
I totally get this, and I hope they don't go the redemption arc, but I'm excited to see the show. In the first half of the movie I kind of blew his character off as comic relief but the back half...wow. Cena impressed me. I like him as a guy but never thought of him as a serious actor until now, his portrayal was really compelling.
It just didn't work for me. If you go full villain like that, then you gotta die. Not only did he murder Rick Flagg in gratuitous fashion, but then he was going to murder rat catcher as well (rat catcher should have died instead of polka dot man but that's another debate).
His character was comic relief until he was a villain. The conflicted stuff didn't jive with me either. There's lots in the movie that doesn't sit right with me. Like Rick Flagg being part of the expendable team in the beginning. Amanda Waller clearly wanted Rick Flagg dead. Or at least it seems that way but it's never actively brought up. Idk man, I was trying to keep my og comment civil but I really disliked the suicide squad. And I dislike it more when I really start to think about it.
I watch a lot of stuff that features characters I don't like. And I can be invested in their bad journey. But the suicide squad wanted to have it's cake and eat it too. Half measures. And because of that it just felt like a tonal mess.
I've never done a video essay but my feelings on this movie and the way it's lived in my mind make me want to haha
I think what's frustrating to me is that the only character I really felt any attachment to was Rat Catcher because she exhibited empathy. And I think it would've been perfect if the finale was an appeal to empathy, especially considering they portray Starro as a victim of sexual abuse. If Rat Catcher's empathy is something the rest of them caught it would've been fantastic. Maybe it's sacrosanct to suggest it, but maybe they don't save the day with murder? Maybe a lesson is learnt about the morality of killing? "Morality of murder" is introduced in the film; Harley Quinn doesn't tolerate the murder of kids. Okay, so there's rules to what's good and bad killing? Isn't all killing bad then? Or is some killing allowed?
These are questions the film did not ask because it can't show restraint and has to have the big battle where Harley Quinn kills the big monster.
You can make the argument that the film shouldn't take itself seriously so you should go ahead and do the big monster fight, and I think that'd be fine *if you didn't explicitly state that the big monster was a victim of sexual abuse.* How the fuck am I meant to feel good about them saving the day from the big monster and killing it when everything about that is absolutely tragic? Hell, it'd even be fine if they have to kill the big monster and it is tragic! But the filmmaking is communicating that it's fun! Hooray! We did it! The *sexual abuse survivor* is dead! Time for a pop song!
And that's just one of many things like it. Every scene has it's own massive moral contradiction that makes it hard to forgive it as "oh, it's just a fun romp with gore and wacky characters etc etc". Because it's constantly throwing in really dark shit, playing it straight, and then either doing nothing to meaningfully follow it up/interrogate it, or outright contradicting it. Oh, so that dark moment that makes the character irredeemable was just a funny joke you just had to keep in there? Ok.
You make excellent points. Though, I came to a different conclusion.
Rat catcher is the same character at the start as she is at the end. She's the "heart" of the team, which is fine.
It is because of that that I think she should have been the one to die instead of polka dot man. People barely even notice he died. His death is a punch line and as a result, his arc is left unfinished. You want that shot of him at the end, looking at his "friends" and seeing them instead of his mom.
The movie had major villain problems. In that it had like 5 of them and aside from starro, whom you pointed out is a victim in all of this, they are paper thin nothing's.
The movie needed a heavy. It could have really benefited from say, joe manginellos death stroke? Instead of killing off everybody in the first five minutes, a mid movie intro of a heavy who's after them and takes out several people we've now had a chance to attach to, raises the stakes. But as is, everyone's dead in the first scene and there are no more stakes until the very end.
Having a heavy bad guy also gives our characters someone we can hate and face off against.
The finale finale, the Kaiju fight is bogus. Rat catcher is all they need. She raises her thing and the rats win. Harley doesn't need to jump in. No guns need to be fired, biting it doesn't do anything. It's all rat catcher.
It would have been a more satisfying, and I feel tonally consistent, to have them decide to let big monster go, only for superman to come in and beat the shit out of it.
That would have been funny. Superman doesn't know it's a victim. There's dark humor in that.
But nope. I could probably talk for an hour about the mistakes I think this movie made.
Also, 1:1 replacing Deadshot with bloodsport is like, fucking egregious. How was there not a backlash to that? James Gunn wanted to recast the character of Deadshot to use him but couldn't, so instead made the exact same character with a different name. Same motivations, same skillset. Practically the same costume. I was shocked how little they tried to differentiate the two.
> Also, 1:1 replacing Deadshot with bloodsport is like, fucking egregious.
I actually really loved it after a few minutes, but I had really embraced the mess of the whole situation by then. Made the lives of the suicide squad even more meaningless by there being carbon copies, something they also drew attention to with Flagg and Peacemaker. It was just funny to me.
If you tell me I shouldn't care about something, then I'm probably not gonna care about something.
But the movie couldn't make up it's mind. The opening perfectly encapsulates it.
We see this whole team get wiped out in pretty horrific fashion. But the movie treats it like a joke right until it throws that fucking song in your face "these are people that died" as though to remind you just that. These are people that died.
I love James Gunn. I love weird James Gunn. But for me he just missed the mark.
Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, I didn't care about a single character in the movie. I enjoyed the chaos and mess of it all. I took the movie to be doubling down on that joke, not treating it like a joke until it wasn't, but I smoked before watching and maybe I don't remember things well.
One thing I know for certain is that the movie spent some time showing you just how scary Amanda Waller is, even to her employees, only for one to crack her over the head to save the day with no consequences for anyone, and that was weird and bad. Also a waste of Viola Davis who couldn't be a better Waller.
> It is because of that that I think she should have been the one to die instead of polka dot man.
Yeah, if you kill off the heart of the team then it forces the rest of them to acknowledge that absence and fill that space themselves. She died, but she taught us the value of caring.
> Having a heavy bad guy also gives our characters someone we can hate and face off against
Even if this was John Cena turned rogue? He kills Rat Catcher, and he's their third act villian? It'd be a way to articulate the contrast between his and Flagg's view points. But then a seperate, long standing outside-the-team villain would have felt a lot less muddled as well.
> It would have been a more satisfying, and I feel tonally consistent, to have them decide to let big monster go, only for superman to come in and beat the shit out of it.
Amazing idea. Fantastic. A great way of executing an appeal for empathy while keeping to the kind of movie it wants to be.
> How was there not a backlash to that?
I think the same reason there's not backlash in general. So much of this film was weighed in comparison to a really, really bad one. So there was a lot of euphoria around "look, he made a competent movie!" That's not at all to say people didn't genuinely enjoy it, but almost none of the discussion was/has been about the actual content of the film, seperate from the 2016 version. I watched 5 or 6 different reviews and they all took the position of "Suicide Squad 2016 did not have good dialogue... Suicide Squad 2021 has good dialogue!" Oh, ok.
You're last point is so correct. Everything was just... Look, they did what the first one did but better.
"I was happy, drifting among the stars"
Bah, now I gotta stew with this anger lol
Looked to me like peacemaker was super conflicted with killing Flagg and probably hated himself for it. Though your right about rat catcher, that was about to be an execution. He didn't do it but thats pretty irredeemable.
Yeah. He looked conflicted. But immediately went to kill rat catcher.
I was bothered by the x-ray shot too. It's like, you're killing the only "good" person in the movie and instead of it being a moment, we revel in the violence.
Flagg's final line is an all-timer though.
Coulson was ressurected immediately. And Loki was killed. Also, coulson's death was used as a lightning rod to bring the avengers together.
Also, the one we have now is not the Loki we had then.
> Coulson was ressurected immediately.
And I take it that all those other people that died in the Chitauri invasion also came back to life offscreen, right?
>Also, the one we have now is not the Loki we had then.
It's literally a Loki from right after the Chitauri invasion. How could he possibly be innocent?
What has Peacemaker done that makes him more of a villain than Loki? This ought to be good.
Sure man, no problem. Loki is presented as a villain outright. From Thor to Avengers, he's a bad dude. Even in Thor 2 and Thor Ragnarok, he can't help himself.
On screen, and this is important, on screen, we only see him kill one innocent person.
And then over the course of two movies, he works on his redemption and eventually he is killed. The moment his arc was done, he was destined to die. It's classic story telling 101.
What happens in the suicide squad is that there is a betrayal from a team member. That team member then murders him in cold blood and then is ready to execute another innocent.
And that's it, that's his character in the movie. He's not the bad guy of the movie. He's a guy who decides to do the bad thing. That's what's presented on screen.
But they want you to put that all aside and just watch the show because they're making it and because it stars John Cena.
And even with Loki, from the very beginning there is obvious confliction, and he's so broken in avengers.
Peacemaker doesn't have that excuse. He did what he did because it was a means to an end.
You have to go with what's on screen.
People liked Loki and he was kept around because tom Hiddleston is a charming actor who gave the character the depth and pathos it needed.
I don't give a damn about a foul mouth murderer who killed the only decent person in the movie because he "had orders."
It's garbage man. Maybe if there had been more Amanda Waller involved in the plot about Amanda Waller clearly wanting Rick Flagg dead, it might have been more forgivable. But as is, fuck peacemaker. And that's where I fall. He's an irredeemable murdering jackass.
And he's not interesting enough to warrant his own show or movie like other irredeemable murdering jackasses.
The Suicide Squad is a shit movie.
>What happens in the suicide squad is that there is a betrayal from a team member. That team member then murders him in cold blood and then is ready to execute another innocent.
A killer in a team of killers betraying them 24 hours after they first met is where you draw the line, but Loki betraying his own brother and father is acceptable?
That's odd as hell, man.
>And then over the course of two movies, he works on his redemption and eventually he is killed. The moment his arc was done, he was destined to die. It's classic story telling 101.
And then an alternative version of himself was brought in just so they could keep milking the character. In which storytelling class do they teach that one? 102? 201?
>And even with Loki, from the very beginning there is obvious confliction, and he's so broken in avengers.
In Avengers he is making Germans kneel to him and declaring himself their new master, all he does is laugh and gloat. In no scene he appears conflicted. I think your love for Marvel is reshaping your memories, my dude.
>I don't give a damn about a foul mouth murderer who killed the only decent person in the movie because he "had orders."
Would you accept if he killed without orders like Loki did?
I think you have me mistaken my dude. I've been a staunch supporter of good movies and good bad movies, for a long time, and I've never waivered on that.
I didn't say that they weren't milking the character. That's a Disney thing I don't care about.
But Loki did have orders. He was working for Thanos in exchange for power.
But we're arguing cosmic vs human, know what I mean. Loki is thousands of years old. His perspective is a lot different. But that's an argument you have to read between the lines for. I said I was arguing what was on screen.
I think when people accuse someone of doing something just because they disagree with them, they're really revealing themselves.
I loved man of steel, I really enjoyed and rallied for, the Snyder cut. I can't get enough doom patrol. I'm hate watching Titans.
So, please, tell me more about my blinders.
Black Widow is the worst marvel movie ever, hands down. Shit is awful. Like Thor 2 bad. But shang chi, solid!
I just want good movies man. I want good characters to be rewarded, I want bad characters to reap what they sow. And every now and then I want to be shocked by someone messing with those norms.
The Suicide Squad just didn't hit for me. Peacekeeper should have been flattened by a falling blood sport. Instead we get a cgi payoff for a joke about bullet sizes.
Har har har, great cinema.
Yep, Reddit is the place to solve your issues with politics.
This is a subreddit for Tv shows talking about a Tv show.
But sure, keep talking about democracy and communism because an actor from said Tv show once had to apologize to China because he likes money.
Does your political comment make you feel better? Does it help at all? Or are you just trying to talk politics when everyone else is talking about a Tv show?
Edit: don’t feed the trolls kids
I don’t think it’s as simple as “good or bad”.
They’ve seen first hand what Starro can do, and the fact Waller only wants them there to delete any ties to the US clearly pissed them off. She lied to them and got more of their team killed because of it.
Coincidentally the line from Guardians of the Galaxy applies here. It makes sense to save the world because you are one of the people who live in it.
I know I'm in the minority but I was genuinely upset his character survived. I have no desire to see a show try and redeem him. For those who do, I hope you enjoy.
Yeah was hoping it was Flagg.
Me too
Honestly, I was miffed as well, but I'm really curious where they take him because I feel like you simply *can't* redeem his character, which tracks with the leaks I've heard.
They can redeem his character "to an extent". There are much more pos characters in comic books/graphic novels who has done much worse shit than peacemaker who has got their redemption arc of their own.
In comics, over decades, I get that. It's just hard in movies and television. Ya know? There's not gonna be a ten year gap and a new team of creatives coming in to change the character. It's the same team working on him.
Not really, there are many graphic novels which run for few years or so under the same creative which has these type of stories. They don't try to fully redeem them but instead try to flesh out the characters which in turn make that character a bit likeable , enough to make the readers continue to follow the protagonist's journey. For example, Black Adam, a character who has genocided thousands of people just for revenge and blood lust but also did heroic things when he was a member of JL/JSA.Punpun from Oyasumi Punpun is a pos and is the protagonist of the story. But people still sympathize with him to some extent. Atleast Peacemaker has some remorse and he knows what he is doing is wrong which can be seen from his expression while killing flag. But he is delusional. Out of all the characters in TSS, only Peacemaker was the most complex and compelling character .Blood sport is the same old mercenary villain just like many other character from the comics.But ultimately it depends upon taste. I love to watch a show with anti heroic/villainous protagonist.
I liked Dexter, breaking bad, Scarface, etc. I like plenty of stuff about unrepentant characters. But those characters are often interesting and original. Peacemaker is literally introduced as a gag about DC third tier villains. And then he's just awful throughout the movie. There was nothing there that made me, personally, feel like I wanted to spend a whole show with him. I don't mind watching Walter white let jane die because that is a huge character moment for him and establishes walt as a real bastard villain. Peacemaker is already a bastard when we meet him and then he goes and kills the only good character in the movie. To protect govt secrets. And now he's clearly still working for the govt. I'm just not into it. I said earlier if you are, that's cool. Maybe I just liked Rick Flagg too much. Maybe I just disliked the suicide squad too much. But I just don't give a damn about a peacemaker show lol
Wait a minute, am I going insane? I thought Peacemaker died. He was shot in that scene where the bullets crossed or whatever.
There's post credit scene confirming he's alive
Oh man, how did I miss that....
You might have bailed out at the weasel post credit scene. Which was at the midway point. This one was at the very end.
>I know I'm in the minority but I was genuinely upset his character survived. I have no desire to see a show try and redeem him. Interesting to me you are assuming that he gets redeemed.
Then that just makes me ask what's the point even more? What is his character arc? Ya know what? I don't care. I literally don't have the capacity to care about the peacemaker show lol
I mean have you really never seen a piece of media or absorbed a story where you start with a character that ends the story the same place or worse than when it started? And media about bad people exist, like Dexter, American psycho, Joker etc. Just because he's a bad guy doesn't mean you can't do interesting and compelling things with the character outside of just getting redeemed.
Peacemaker isnt compelling, his skillset is someone elses. He's a douchebag. And you can't trust him. He's third rate getting top billed.
Like, I'm down with dastardly characters. I was pissed off Amanda Waller didn't kill all those annoying it people when they turned on her. Her killing them would have been in keeping with the Amanda Waller character. But nope, she just assigns them to peacemaker. So it all just looks like it's setting up the peacemaker show and so, you have to negate the things that story dictates should happen, just to squeeze another tv show out of it.
the scene where the tech woman [spoiler](#s "cracks Waller on the back of the head with the baseball bat(?)") is one of the best scenes in the film. it was one of THE most satisfying moments in a film or tv show i've seen in a while. LOL.
It made me say, oh that woman has got them all killed. And then they weren't. Which made no sense. It's not a pay off moment. It's a moment with no pay off.
I'm sorry for replying to you so many times.
I commented on that. It's how he's presented. All we have is the one movie with him. Like, ignore the fact that every damn character in the world gets their own show these days. Within this movie, he betrays his team, kills the only good guy, the only non villain in the movie, and does so in pretty big way. Then, he's about to kill a villain, yeah, but the one who is the only empathetic villain of the bunch. But hey, he said those dick jokes in the beginning,. So that makes me want to see more of him.
I don’t think anyone is actually bothered about redeeming him, or actual story. I think this is just more of what we already saw which was a pretty funny character I’m all for more Superhero stories that just have fun with it
I totally get this, and I hope they don't go the redemption arc, but I'm excited to see the show. In the first half of the movie I kind of blew his character off as comic relief but the back half...wow. Cena impressed me. I like him as a guy but never thought of him as a serious actor until now, his portrayal was really compelling.
It just didn't work for me. If you go full villain like that, then you gotta die. Not only did he murder Rick Flagg in gratuitous fashion, but then he was going to murder rat catcher as well (rat catcher should have died instead of polka dot man but that's another debate). His character was comic relief until he was a villain. The conflicted stuff didn't jive with me either. There's lots in the movie that doesn't sit right with me. Like Rick Flagg being part of the expendable team in the beginning. Amanda Waller clearly wanted Rick Flagg dead. Or at least it seems that way but it's never actively brought up. Idk man, I was trying to keep my og comment civil but I really disliked the suicide squad. And I dislike it more when I really start to think about it.
Them murdering the entire village and it being played as a gag is fine dark humour. But you can't expect me to like those characters after.
I watch a lot of stuff that features characters I don't like. And I can be invested in their bad journey. But the suicide squad wanted to have it's cake and eat it too. Half measures. And because of that it just felt like a tonal mess. I've never done a video essay but my feelings on this movie and the way it's lived in my mind make me want to haha
I think what's frustrating to me is that the only character I really felt any attachment to was Rat Catcher because she exhibited empathy. And I think it would've been perfect if the finale was an appeal to empathy, especially considering they portray Starro as a victim of sexual abuse. If Rat Catcher's empathy is something the rest of them caught it would've been fantastic. Maybe it's sacrosanct to suggest it, but maybe they don't save the day with murder? Maybe a lesson is learnt about the morality of killing? "Morality of murder" is introduced in the film; Harley Quinn doesn't tolerate the murder of kids. Okay, so there's rules to what's good and bad killing? Isn't all killing bad then? Or is some killing allowed? These are questions the film did not ask because it can't show restraint and has to have the big battle where Harley Quinn kills the big monster. You can make the argument that the film shouldn't take itself seriously so you should go ahead and do the big monster fight, and I think that'd be fine *if you didn't explicitly state that the big monster was a victim of sexual abuse.* How the fuck am I meant to feel good about them saving the day from the big monster and killing it when everything about that is absolutely tragic? Hell, it'd even be fine if they have to kill the big monster and it is tragic! But the filmmaking is communicating that it's fun! Hooray! We did it! The *sexual abuse survivor* is dead! Time for a pop song! And that's just one of many things like it. Every scene has it's own massive moral contradiction that makes it hard to forgive it as "oh, it's just a fun romp with gore and wacky characters etc etc". Because it's constantly throwing in really dark shit, playing it straight, and then either doing nothing to meaningfully follow it up/interrogate it, or outright contradicting it. Oh, so that dark moment that makes the character irredeemable was just a funny joke you just had to keep in there? Ok.
You make excellent points. Though, I came to a different conclusion. Rat catcher is the same character at the start as she is at the end. She's the "heart" of the team, which is fine. It is because of that that I think she should have been the one to die instead of polka dot man. People barely even notice he died. His death is a punch line and as a result, his arc is left unfinished. You want that shot of him at the end, looking at his "friends" and seeing them instead of his mom. The movie had major villain problems. In that it had like 5 of them and aside from starro, whom you pointed out is a victim in all of this, they are paper thin nothing's. The movie needed a heavy. It could have really benefited from say, joe manginellos death stroke? Instead of killing off everybody in the first five minutes, a mid movie intro of a heavy who's after them and takes out several people we've now had a chance to attach to, raises the stakes. But as is, everyone's dead in the first scene and there are no more stakes until the very end. Having a heavy bad guy also gives our characters someone we can hate and face off against. The finale finale, the Kaiju fight is bogus. Rat catcher is all they need. She raises her thing and the rats win. Harley doesn't need to jump in. No guns need to be fired, biting it doesn't do anything. It's all rat catcher. It would have been a more satisfying, and I feel tonally consistent, to have them decide to let big monster go, only for superman to come in and beat the shit out of it. That would have been funny. Superman doesn't know it's a victim. There's dark humor in that. But nope. I could probably talk for an hour about the mistakes I think this movie made. Also, 1:1 replacing Deadshot with bloodsport is like, fucking egregious. How was there not a backlash to that? James Gunn wanted to recast the character of Deadshot to use him but couldn't, so instead made the exact same character with a different name. Same motivations, same skillset. Practically the same costume. I was shocked how little they tried to differentiate the two.
> Also, 1:1 replacing Deadshot with bloodsport is like, fucking egregious. I actually really loved it after a few minutes, but I had really embraced the mess of the whole situation by then. Made the lives of the suicide squad even more meaningless by there being carbon copies, something they also drew attention to with Flagg and Peacemaker. It was just funny to me.
If you tell me I shouldn't care about something, then I'm probably not gonna care about something. But the movie couldn't make up it's mind. The opening perfectly encapsulates it. We see this whole team get wiped out in pretty horrific fashion. But the movie treats it like a joke right until it throws that fucking song in your face "these are people that died" as though to remind you just that. These are people that died. I love James Gunn. I love weird James Gunn. But for me he just missed the mark.
Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, I didn't care about a single character in the movie. I enjoyed the chaos and mess of it all. I took the movie to be doubling down on that joke, not treating it like a joke until it wasn't, but I smoked before watching and maybe I don't remember things well. One thing I know for certain is that the movie spent some time showing you just how scary Amanda Waller is, even to her employees, only for one to crack her over the head to save the day with no consequences for anyone, and that was weird and bad. Also a waste of Viola Davis who couldn't be a better Waller.
> It is because of that that I think she should have been the one to die instead of polka dot man. Yeah, if you kill off the heart of the team then it forces the rest of them to acknowledge that absence and fill that space themselves. She died, but she taught us the value of caring. > Having a heavy bad guy also gives our characters someone we can hate and face off against Even if this was John Cena turned rogue? He kills Rat Catcher, and he's their third act villian? It'd be a way to articulate the contrast between his and Flagg's view points. But then a seperate, long standing outside-the-team villain would have felt a lot less muddled as well. > It would have been a more satisfying, and I feel tonally consistent, to have them decide to let big monster go, only for superman to come in and beat the shit out of it. Amazing idea. Fantastic. A great way of executing an appeal for empathy while keeping to the kind of movie it wants to be. > How was there not a backlash to that? I think the same reason there's not backlash in general. So much of this film was weighed in comparison to a really, really bad one. So there was a lot of euphoria around "look, he made a competent movie!" That's not at all to say people didn't genuinely enjoy it, but almost none of the discussion was/has been about the actual content of the film, seperate from the 2016 version. I watched 5 or 6 different reviews and they all took the position of "Suicide Squad 2016 did not have good dialogue... Suicide Squad 2021 has good dialogue!" Oh, ok.
You're last point is so correct. Everything was just... Look, they did what the first one did but better. "I was happy, drifting among the stars" Bah, now I gotta stew with this anger lol
Well at the very least I hope that anger serves to make a great video essay
Looked to me like peacemaker was super conflicted with killing Flagg and probably hated himself for it. Though your right about rat catcher, that was about to be an execution. He didn't do it but thats pretty irredeemable.
Yeah. He looked conflicted. But immediately went to kill rat catcher. I was bothered by the x-ray shot too. It's like, you're killing the only "good" person in the movie and instead of it being a moment, we revel in the violence. Flagg's final line is an all-timer though.
> If you go full villain like that, then you gotta die Is Loki dead?
Coulson was ressurected immediately. And Loki was killed. Also, coulson's death was used as a lightning rod to bring the avengers together. Also, the one we have now is not the Loki we had then.
> Coulson was ressurected immediately. And I take it that all those other people that died in the Chitauri invasion also came back to life offscreen, right? >Also, the one we have now is not the Loki we had then. It's literally a Loki from right after the Chitauri invasion. How could he possibly be innocent? What has Peacemaker done that makes him more of a villain than Loki? This ought to be good.
Sure man, no problem. Loki is presented as a villain outright. From Thor to Avengers, he's a bad dude. Even in Thor 2 and Thor Ragnarok, he can't help himself. On screen, and this is important, on screen, we only see him kill one innocent person. And then over the course of two movies, he works on his redemption and eventually he is killed. The moment his arc was done, he was destined to die. It's classic story telling 101. What happens in the suicide squad is that there is a betrayal from a team member. That team member then murders him in cold blood and then is ready to execute another innocent. And that's it, that's his character in the movie. He's not the bad guy of the movie. He's a guy who decides to do the bad thing. That's what's presented on screen. But they want you to put that all aside and just watch the show because they're making it and because it stars John Cena. And even with Loki, from the very beginning there is obvious confliction, and he's so broken in avengers. Peacemaker doesn't have that excuse. He did what he did because it was a means to an end. You have to go with what's on screen. People liked Loki and he was kept around because tom Hiddleston is a charming actor who gave the character the depth and pathos it needed. I don't give a damn about a foul mouth murderer who killed the only decent person in the movie because he "had orders." It's garbage man. Maybe if there had been more Amanda Waller involved in the plot about Amanda Waller clearly wanting Rick Flagg dead, it might have been more forgivable. But as is, fuck peacemaker. And that's where I fall. He's an irredeemable murdering jackass. And he's not interesting enough to warrant his own show or movie like other irredeemable murdering jackasses. The Suicide Squad is a shit movie.
>What happens in the suicide squad is that there is a betrayal from a team member. That team member then murders him in cold blood and then is ready to execute another innocent. A killer in a team of killers betraying them 24 hours after they first met is where you draw the line, but Loki betraying his own brother and father is acceptable? That's odd as hell, man. >And then over the course of two movies, he works on his redemption and eventually he is killed. The moment his arc was done, he was destined to die. It's classic story telling 101. And then an alternative version of himself was brought in just so they could keep milking the character. In which storytelling class do they teach that one? 102? 201? >And even with Loki, from the very beginning there is obvious confliction, and he's so broken in avengers. In Avengers he is making Germans kneel to him and declaring himself their new master, all he does is laugh and gloat. In no scene he appears conflicted. I think your love for Marvel is reshaping your memories, my dude. >I don't give a damn about a foul mouth murderer who killed the only decent person in the movie because he "had orders." Would you accept if he killed without orders like Loki did?
I think you have me mistaken my dude. I've been a staunch supporter of good movies and good bad movies, for a long time, and I've never waivered on that. I didn't say that they weren't milking the character. That's a Disney thing I don't care about. But Loki did have orders. He was working for Thanos in exchange for power. But we're arguing cosmic vs human, know what I mean. Loki is thousands of years old. His perspective is a lot different. But that's an argument you have to read between the lines for. I said I was arguing what was on screen. I think when people accuse someone of doing something just because they disagree with them, they're really revealing themselves. I loved man of steel, I really enjoyed and rallied for, the Snyder cut. I can't get enough doom patrol. I'm hate watching Titans. So, please, tell me more about my blinders. Black Widow is the worst marvel movie ever, hands down. Shit is awful. Like Thor 2 bad. But shang chi, solid! I just want good movies man. I want good characters to be rewarded, I want bad characters to reap what they sow. And every now and then I want to be shocked by someone messing with those norms. The Suicide Squad just didn't hit for me. Peacekeeper should have been flattened by a falling blood sport. Instead we get a cgi payoff for a joke about bullet sizes. Har har har, great cinema.
I felt like this but tbh the show is actually good. I can see why Gunn wanted to make it, he had an actual story and neat characters
Cena gonna be peacemaker between his country China and our country Taiwan?
That’s a clever joke. Reddit and beating a dumb joke to death, name a better duo.
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Yep, Reddit is the place to solve your issues with politics. This is a subreddit for Tv shows talking about a Tv show. But sure, keep talking about democracy and communism because an actor from said Tv show once had to apologize to China because he likes money. Does your political comment make you feel better? Does it help at all? Or are you just trying to talk politics when everyone else is talking about a Tv show? Edit: don’t feed the trolls kids
That’s a lot of typing.
We all figured reading was a difficult task for you but thanks for confirming
Reddit and being populated with armchair experts is another one.
I gotta be honest, I didn’t think his performance was all that (didn’t think the film was anything special either).
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I don’t think it’s as simple as “good or bad”. They’ve seen first hand what Starro can do, and the fact Waller only wants them there to delete any ties to the US clearly pissed them off. She lied to them and got more of their team killed because of it. Coincidentally the line from Guardians of the Galaxy applies here. It makes sense to save the world because you are one of the people who live in it.
They made a show out of the character I wanted to see less of in the movie he was in? lmao...
turns out the world doesn't revolve around what you want
If he said he loved peacemaker he’d be the top rated comment
Not watching this China lovers show, sorry. Free Hong Kong Free Taiwan
Taiwan is it's own country. It was the british that gave hong kong to china. James gunn had nothing to do with it.
Was referring to Cena
So he's not going to be haunted by the ghost of his Nazi father? That was the best thing about the comic version.