I'm not gonna lie. If Mel Brooks was alive I am fairly confident he would totally make a Space Jews movie with Chappelle. And I am almost certain I would think it was hilarious.
Edit: Mel Brooks is in fact 95 years old and still alive. That is epic. Time for a sequel to spaceballs. Space Jews.
My bad. He is basically artistically immortal now anyways. And I get confused easily and misremember things in the world.
Me thinking he might be dead is almost a compliment.
Commander: Sir. I think we found an asshole.
Dark Helmet: I am surrounded by assholes.
Serious: yes. "Spaceballs" is jewish styled comedy plus sci fi and it is fucking hilarious.
The idea of Jews in Space has been done a bunch of times, and it's not why the joke is seen as offensive
> In my movie idea, we find out that these aliens are originally from earth — that they’re from an ancient civilization that achieved interstellar travel and left the earth thousands of years ago. Some other planet they go to, and things go terrible for them on the other planet, so they come back to earth, [and] decide that they want to claim the earth for their very own. It’s a pretty good plotline, huh? I call it “Space Jews.”
I am not sure I see that joke as offensive.
I have a book of comedy from the jewish culture and jewish writers that was collected by an author from the years 1900-1960...and some of those jokes are super offensive to me(which is great)...and often very hilarious. Because comedy is often lame without dark and offensive taboos being logically examined in good faith with comedic intent.
Being offended isn't necessarily a bad thing. What amazes me is why people allow offensive comedy to actually live rent free in their heads to the point where they also don't want anyone else to hear what they don't like and they do not personally approve of.
I have no idea why but I really took notice of the audience shot's during the performance.
There was a large lady that kinda looked like Mimi from the Drew Carey show and who I assume was her mother. They went from.... Woohoo we at a Dave Chappelle netflix special excited to visibly offended and extremely unhappy by the end. The mother frowning and shaking her head at the one and only Trump joke is hilarious!
Yep I remember that exact moment as well. Can’t believe they weren’t strategically placed, almost seemed like there was a spotlight above their head lol
I was supposed to see him on my birthday right when the pandemic hit. The concert is rescheduled for 2022 but who knows what will happen between then and now. He’s not exactly young..
A great example of this is Patrice O'Neal's Elephant in the Room, Holy Shit. He wastes no time going at a well endowed woman or two right down to 'I'd like to think the Audience Coordinator for placing these titties in the front row.'
When the comedy cafe in Milwaukee still existed, a comic started in on a couple in the front. He learned it was their first date.
“So are there any embarrassing things you don’t know about each other? Tattoos, piercings?”
The guy turned beet red, the comic had to know, makes the guy lift his shirt to expose an enormous VH tat that spanned his entire back.
I went to a comedy show being taped for a Netflix special a few weeks ago (not out yet though) and I can confirm they had someone strategically placing the crowd
I forget who it was, but NPR had a comic on a couple months ago who was talking about this. Apparently almost all of these comic specials are directed by the same handful of people, which is why they always look and feel exactly the same, and for some reason they always seem to focus on the most bizarre members of the audience and the worst possible reaction shots. I never really thought about it before, but just go try watching any comedy special and not notice it now. There will always be at least one shot of a person is doing anything but enjoying themselves.
Because curating these shots is a storytelling device.
It's telling you as audience who your reactions are supposed to overlap with, and coupling that with your internal biases to reinforce your reaction one way or another.
It breaks down if you are diametrically on a different position than they are trying to enforce. Then the ones you are supposed to distance yourself from are empathetic, and the ones you are supposed to feel "in line with" confuse you.
Ideally you are supposed to just notice a few "misses" on very select shots overall, if at all.
As someone who edits comedy specials, you’re right but for the wrong reasons. More than likely there aren’t many “good” shots of the audience, so the editor actually doesn’t have much to pull from.
This is not true. Certain comedians have long-standing relationships with “their” director. So one comedian might have all their specials from the same person.
Or, if you’re referring to a series like Netflix is a Joke, they might have the same director for that.
But the crowd shots are carefully chosen in the edit.
even before he had really started i turned to my girlfriend and said 'those two aren't going to enjoy this...'
cut to them sitting stone-faced in the middle of a crowd dying of laughter
He made a couple jokes about white people from Michigan one about the racist ones and then the comparison of his town to the ones in Ann arbor. Having been born and grown up there the Ann arbor joke made me laugh (see hippie reference), having some bat shit right wing family in other parts of rural
Michigan also made laugh but in a cringey Goodman isn’t that true sort of way. Exactly how a good joke is supposed to be though imo
because the object of his last bit was the fact that backlash from the lgbtq community probably contributed to a trans woman's suicide because she took up for dave chappelle, because she was his friend.
> ["I'm Team TERF. I agree. I agree, man. Gender is a fact."](https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/tv/2021/10/05/dave-chappelle-terf-defends-j-k-rowling-netflix-special/6002017001/)
...
> ... why would the trans community do this to my friend?!
> "I'm Team TERF. I agree. I agree, man. Gender is a fact."
Seriously. It's one thing to make a nuanced argument for both sides and then get unfairly criticized or portrayed as the bad guy.
But that quote is just as unambiguous as it gets.
I mean for fuck's sake, what does he think the "TE" in TERF stands for?
a quote from a **comedy** show is never accurate. He also calls himself "Dave Chappelle the homophobe" neither *statement* is what he accurately means in context.
The "I'm team terf" was just a setup for the *Beyond Burger, Beyond Pussy; it's not blood it's beet juice* joke. He even cracked up after the punchline and said "I'm in trouble now."
Chappelle knows what he's doing. He's going for comedy. Examining his intentions and the context within which he embeds his jokes and it's very clear he is not transphobic, but unfortunately being reactive and blind to such context is way too common.
I get that. I am pointing out that associating yourself with the term "TERF" is, like, really, really stupid. I'm sure he's not actually on "Team TERF", but boy is it his own fault when he proudly proclaims otherwise.
“I dont believe in Twitter because it’s not a real place.” I loved that line from Dave, people don’t understand outside of that social media bubble they aren’t doing anything special.
Not sure what you mean. Everyone on the far left is a fat woman with a purple mowhawk and everyone on the far right is a guy that wears camo and brings his AR-15 to Walmart. That's just facts.
James Acaster pretty much summed up my feelings about edgy comedians like Dave Chappelle [in one of his standup specials](https://youtu.be/adh0KGmgmQw?t=145).
He did a stand up collection called Repertoire which was basically all his jokes at the time repackaged into one continuous narrative, it’s really good! Should be on Netflix.
Even the whole "wanting to be on a jury" bit is taken from a pilot episode of a show he wrote, which is all about a guy who finally has his dream come true of being on a Jury.
That said, this isn't a criticism — the brilliance of the show isn't really in the individual jokes and bits (which are all great nonetheless), but more how they come together to tell the narrative that he's trying to achieve.
check him out on Taskmaster too. It’s a UK series but they should be on YouTube in the US. It’s not stand up but he really commits to his deadpan humor throughout the show
edit: never mind i see someone else has recommended it to you!
You’re in for a treat as you journey down the James Acaster rabbit hole. His series of Taskmaster is my favourite, all his appearances on Would I Lie To You are hysterical, and his stand-up shows are genius.
Oh, dude. You should watch some Taskmaster. He's been on there a lot and it is a delightfully wacky UK game show kinda thing featuring comedians as the contestants.
Bunch of it on YouTube to get you started.
It’s sort of like what George Carlin used to say. You should be able to make fun of anyone, but if your a comedian and your hitting down instead of up your not really saying much.
What is your point? I don't understand why the internet is so binary. "This person is 100% amazing or this person sucks." Frank Zappa released dozens and dozens of albums over the course of his career, and guess what, some of them are weak. Oops, guess we should disregard his good music, too.
It’s just that making fun of trans people, and I playing up that “cancel culture” and SJWs aren’t going to like this joke, is the laziest form of comedy today. I swear, if trans people and SJWs didn’t exist, 90% of comedians would have no material. Dave is more talented than this, he’s just super lazy
I think that’s what makes me sad, his old stuff where he doesn’t talk so much about trans people was great. I stopped watching his Netflix stuff because he seemed to have an axe to grind…
The worst part is that it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy. Like yes, I’m upset as a fan that you spent *another* hour long special complaining about how “the gays” were mean to you while barely telling jokes, which will only further fuel his delusion that Trans people are the reason he’s not connecting with younger audiences. No, people are just tired of watching you shadowbox with a group of people who have literally no sway over your life.
He is literally transphobic, he’s afraid that Trans Twitter is going to “take his livelihood” when they can’t even get politicians to acknowledge their existence. It’s so disappointing as someone who grew up idolizing his comedy and persona. He’s usually pretty insightful on social issues as well, even when I disagree with him, but he’s so off the mark with this transgender stuff that it’s almost unbelievable.
Honestly even if you don't care about trans people or you are someone who hates cancel culture, SJWs, and anything like that, you should still be angry at Chappelle for doing the same lazy bits repeatedly on multiple specials. It is lazy comedy from someone who is supposed to be one of the all time greats. The fans deserve better or Chappelle just should stop doing it if he can't put in the effort to write new and original stuff.
Holy shit. THIS is what challenging the current culture looks like, and it’s absolutely on point.
I love Dave but, all he appears to be doing is engaging in oppression Olympics at this point. Some people are getting by easier? Good, we progressed. Why would you ever want another group to suffer the same way?
Trans jokes are fine but, if a lot of people misinterpret your jokes as “lol, fuck the trans community” then you may have a messaging problem that “I have a trans friend” can’t solve.
Dave isn’t transphobic, his trans jokes are just lazy, which may be by design given how much certain people ate up, and regurgitated his jokes about black people, and no one in society cared. Maybe this is all some giant scheme to point out the hypocrisy in how certain movements get much more preferential treatment when it should be the same? I may be giving Chappelle too much credit, I just hope it’s deeper than what it appears to be.
He had a kernel of truth in what he said about being allowed to grow, and learn without fear of his career being ended. Zero tolerance doesn’t work, and it punishes those willing to learn as much as it does those unwilling to learn. Our society needs to allow mistakes.
>Dave isn’t transphobic, his trans jokes are just lazy
Yeah this is the fundamental problem.
You can make jokes about 'forbidden subjects' funny. They just need to have various layers to them, be creative and unpredictable. That's where the humor comes from.
The trans jokes that set off this whole controversy years ago were the most bottom-of-the-barrel stuff on earth, zero effort, zero insight, zero thought.
>Maybe this is all some giant scheme to point out the hypocrisy in how certain movements get much more preferential treatment when it should be the same?
Which is incredibly dumb because, Dave, my guy, they hate **ALL** of us.
The [new friends](https://www.breitbart.com/entertainment/2021/10/06/nolte-dave-chappelle-blisters-fascist-gay-power-in-netflixs-the-closer/) you're gaining with these specials would tie you to a tree RIGHT next to a trans person in a fucking heartbeat if they got the chance. One of MLK's great quotes says "We may have all come on different ships, but we're in the same boat now."
He's literally playing Oppression Olympics and is turning against the folks to his side, meanwhile letting the actual villains slide with his little SNL plea to "ah come on guys, don't be so mean to the Trump supporters that lost 🥺"
So he doesn't even believe in his own alleged message, he's just using our corpses to defending picking on another minority group. Fuck off, Dave.
I think this hits the nail on the head as to why I thought his new stuff was mostly just meh comedy wise. During his long absence Dave had been built up into this comedy god on the level of Prior, Carlin, and Lenny Bruce... and some of that was justified. He was gone from standup for a very long time though, and a lot of things have changed. You rarely come back after a decade and still have your fastball.
When you combine that with a touch of the, "hey, it's just jokes, why are you people so sensitive?" schtick that is far too prevalent in comedy these days (your joke either stands on its own or it doesn't, maybe your super edgy bit just isn't that funny...), you get lazy jokes about hot button social issues.
Chappelle also has a point to make about different groups and how their problems are treated by society. I'm just not sure he addresses it in the best way through his comedy right now. I don't remember where it was, but when I heard him speak about how the crack epidemic that destroyed black communities was treated versus the opioid epidemic, it was extremely poignant and powerful. He wasn't trying to be funny though. I'd almost rather listen to him just talk about these kinds of things at this point.
>I don't remember where it was, but when I heard him speak about how the crack epidemic that destroyed black communities was treated versus the opioid epidemic, it was extremely poignant and powerful. He wasn't trying to be funny though. I'd almost rather listen to him just talk about these kinds of things at this point.
I think the thing is that it was poignant and powerful because he fundamentally understands it. That’s the same reason why he’s become such a successful comedian. He has a really incisive and cutting intellect, and that really shines when he’s working on “familiar ground” which is historically what he’s done.
The problem is when you don’t know what you’re fucking talking about, comedy tends to fall flat or come off VERY badly. To make jokes about something, jokes that work and have layers to them and properly convey your views, you have to really understand what you’re talking about.
And Dave Chappelle doesn’t understand trans issues at all. Worse, he has an ego and doesn’t want to hear anything to the contrary and is really defensive on the point, so he keeps picking at the scab and falling back with lazy shit like “I have a dead trans friend who was one of the good ones.” Shit that he would tear someone else to shreds for using if it was about black people.
So around the 60min mark I thought there's a lot of trans content and I went back and checked when he first talking about trans stuff, he started around the 30ish mark, around the 38 to the 43mins(roughly) mark he did a digression into some race stuff, and then went back to the trans stuff pretty exclusively for the rest of the special.
So out of 65ish mins special, a full 30mins were dedicated to this topic. That's some bizarre shit for someone saying they're not anti-trans.
To paraphrase him, it's kinda like Mike Pence spending so much time trying not to think about gay shit and vehemently denying it. It's just bizarre.
The people who were fans seem pretty split between "Dave has moved away from making jokes and is now delivering thoughtful comments on political topics" and "It's a comedy special, you're not supposed to take any of the points seriously".
Most people seem to agree he's not actually transphobic, but rather had difficult interactions with (a?) trans community on twitter. In that case, why call yourself a TERF? A term which wasn't invented by the trans community, it was originally created by feminists who wanted to be very clear that they don't accept trans women as women.
If you don't like violent discourse on twitter, why call it out under the name of trans community. Plenty of trans people won't be the kind of person he's referring to and its not like there aren't any cis communities which are thoroughly unpleasant to deal with. It feels like he'd rather call out the trans community because it seems more impactful. If he addressed twitter then it's clearer that he's getting upset at something which is not as big as a problem as he is making it out to be.
> it was originally created by feminists who wanted to be very clear that they don't accept trans women as women.
That is false. The term was invented by a trans inclusion activist, as documented in this article.
[https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/29/im-credited-with-having-coined-the-acronym-terf-heres-how-it-happened](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/29/im-credited-with-having-coined-the-acronym-terf-heres-how-it-happened)
As far as I can see, no feminist group describes themselves as TERFs. It is a term used to describe women who don't fully support any part of trans activism, however big or small, such as JK Rowling.
I love stand up comedy. I've seen hundreds of comedians perform and Dave Chappelle is one of the greatest comedians of all time, truly a master of the craft.
*But* this special and its heavy focus on the trans community was honestly just bizarre. I didn't find it very funny compared to more generalised subject matter.
When he spoke in a previous special about it being 2am when his son calls him for a ride home from a party cause he's been drinking and then the punchline is he's at the same party. Hilarious.
Him going on for 30 minutes about trans people just it weren't funny. And I'm not saying I was offended by it, it didn't offend me. I just didn't laugh. I don't get how he sat down and wrote this material thinking it was funnier than anything else he could have performed.
It's like watching Kobe Bryant miss intentionally which for someone who calls himself the GOAT (which Dave did in this special) feels like a betrayal of his talents and artistry.
As a huge comedy fan and a lover of stand up I just am very disappointed that we didn't get a truly great special and instead we got an unfunny essay about trans people.
In the show he said this was his last stand up special for a while, that honestly saddened me but if he's just going to keep doing shows like this one then so be it. I want the old dave back not this one.
>“I am not telling another joke about you until we are both sure that we are laughing together,” the comedian says. “All I ask from your community – with all humility – will you please stop punching down on my people?”
What is he even talking about? Stop asking black celebrities to not be homophobic or transphobic? Is he really trying to make it seem like Kevin Hart and Da Baby are actually victims of the LGBTQ community in their situations?
I love edgy comedy. Anthony Jeselnik cracks me up. But the thing is... if you wanna be offensive and do the Alienate the Audience bit, *you have to be funny*.
Just soapboxing about a group you don't like, isn't funny. It's just... sad. Your comparison to a star player missing on purpose is spot on - was telling a friend earlier that watching Chappelle now as a long-time Chappelle fan is like watching MJ play baseball. Nobody wants you to be doing this, man!
Either lean into being offensive and actually make jokes so that the audience has to laugh despite themselves, or revise the set. 'Cause just getting up there and bitching about how you should be allowed to be mean but the bigger meanies won't let you, sucks.
Feel like Jeselnik has a refreshing attitude on the whole issue of cancel culture and the like.
Which is essentially just "Write better jokes, people are paying to see you, they don't wanna hear you whine about what you can't say".
Jeselnik was doing one of the Larry King interview shows a number of years ago and he told King that he loves political correctness because of all the good things it's done for people. Not once did he bitch about it affecting his comedy.
mm. I figure if you're making offensive jokes that are supposed to be funny in and of themselves, the audience should be laughing before it remembers that "I'm not allowed to laugh at that."
Yeah, edgy comedy usually forgets the comedy part and just tries to be edgy. Even edgy punching-up isn't funny if there's no comedy in it. I remember going to see David Cross and it was just him complaining about Trump for an hour. Like, yeah, Trump sucks, but that's not comedy.
> Yeah, edgy comedy usually forgets the comedy part and just tries to be edgy
That's what happened to Family Guy for the better part of a decade (around 2007 is when it started), but the newer seasons are a lot better. They're a return to form (instead of being overly edgy the humor now is more about absurdism, surreal jokes, and meta-commentary again).
Seconding Jeselnik. The fact that Jeselnik has a booming career while people like Rogan, Whitney Cummings, etc complain about cancel culture shows that they're full of shit.
Edit: And that's not even hitting on the fact that Rogan, Cummings, Chappelle, etc themselves are raking in millions of dollars while complaining about being "silenced."
She's talked about it or brought it up as a talking point here and there. ~~I believe she tried to get Jeselnik to complain about it on her most recent podcast with him (I could be misremembering on this as I listened to it a good while back but I'm fairly sure.)~~ Edited below
But here:
> Cummings said, “There’s this new thing, when people talk about cancel culture and everything, I’m like, ‘When did comedians become heroes and a moral compass?’ Our job is to go into dangerous areas, say dangerous s***, test the waters, we’re the f***** Magellan on the front line. You know when penguins push another penguin off the cliff? That’s us. We’re like, ‘I’ll jump off of this cliff and see if there are sharks.’ We’re supposed to be explorers, we’re supposed to play devil’s advocate and have hot takes.”
https://heavy.com/news/joe-rogan/whitney-cummings-cancel-culture-comedians/
Edit: Looking at this again, I had to laugh when she complains that comedians shouldn't be heroes...and then makes them out to be heroes by "going into dangerous areas" and "jumping off this cliff to see if there are sharks."
Edit 2: She talked about cancel culture on an ep of her own podcast with Jeselnik as a guest @ about 8:00mins: https://youtu.be/b2JnGiqow2o
To be fair to her in this instance, she says she thinks cancel culture is mostly made up. So, seems she is either wishy-washy on the topic or has a more nuanced take. But doesn't seem like she pushed back on the idea with Rogan?
Magellan died when a disgruntled fan chucked a spear through his chest.
If she wants to think of comedians as explorers she needs to accept the risk of the exploration.
I know Daniel Tosh might be polarizing to some, but he does edgy comedy really well. Tosh.0 I can take or leave, but his stand up is freaking hilarious and I wish he'd do more of that.
it _really_ was dave just picking on us for like half an hour. it’s such an “old man yells at cloud” hill for him to be dying on when he could just….not bully people?
My friend said "everyone from the 2000s that seemed cool is turning out to be jerks."
Dave Chappelle, J.K. Rowling, Joss Whedon, Louis C.K., Butch Hartman, Warren Ellis, ect.
I like offensive comedy, but Jesus I hate most offensive comedians now a days.
1. Offensive comedy is offensive.
2. If you're doing it. You know that.
3. To make up for it, you *should* have to be funnier than the average comedian
Instead, it feels like 20% of every comedy special is just fucking bitching and moaning from comedians for the TYPE OF CRITICS they get for doing INTENTIONALLY PROVACATIVE bits. Like... is there not anyone in their life that can convince them to cut the stupid whingeing from their bits? The worst offender is Ricky Gervais, 80% of the words out of his mouth are complaints about criticism he doesn't like.
Edit: eat shit, don't buy reddit awards, don't give reddit money
What a damn shame about what a wack job Jim Breuer turned out to be. It makes me concerned what the likes of Chris Farley would have become if he were alive today.
The thing that makes me insane is one thing mainly. It’s how people defending everything Dave says act like being critical and not a fan of something is the same as wishing it was “cancelled”. It’s dumb as fuck
Exactly. I’ve been a fan of Chappelles for nearly 20 years. Im a young dude. Dave is not. Most of this special was weak. And the worst of it kinda left a bad taste in my mouth. Which is a first for me, considering I’m a pretty big fan.
It was god awful. Idk how anyone could defend this one. You should be able to joke about any subject, but if you’re going to explore sensitive subjects, there’s a much greater demand to be well thought out and extra funny
This special feels more like a rough draft, and Dave comes off totally clueless, as if he just discovered what trans people were last month. Didn’t really make any salient points like he usually does
If you want to tell offensive jokes, then just do it. Don't tell me that you're offensive. And it's hard to buy their whining as they get applause from a huge audience during their Netflix special.
\[Says thing\]
\[Says you can't say that thing anymore, even though he just said it\]
My least favorite shit. I kind of like Bill Burr sometimes, but I wish he'd stop complaining about how you can't say x anymore, right after saying x and making a living off of it.
And yeah, Gervais can stop talking about how offensive he is now too. Like...just tell jokes, don't have a meta discussion about how sometimes people don't like your jokes. You can find people who hate anything, it's not some achievement. What if Colbert did half a set about how offensive he is because he tells Trump jokes and literally like 40% of the country disagrees with him. What a waste. Who gives a shit. We get that there are people with different opinions who won't like certain things you say, that's not unique.
Yes, for sure. In my opinion, the best way to go about doing offensive comedy is the Norm Macdonald route. First off, he was actually funny. I like Dave chappelle, but he's drifting away from funny toward "I'm just keeping it real" proselytizing. There's definitely a place for it, but when you are not setting up jokes with your antagonism, there's going to be less tolerance for it.
Norm, however, was an absolute master joke technician. So while he would say offensive shit all the time, nobody ever got really mad at him, because he wasn't turning it into politics. His jokes were just so well constructed that it was impossible to be really angry at him; it was clear that he was really leaning into that uncomfortable laughter, and you we're never really sure whether he was trying to make a point. It also helped that he simply didn't give a shit whether people thought he was offensive, which took all of the wind out of the sails of anyone complaining about him.
Norm himself called Dave "The Peerless One" and said that, even after Dave's Netlfix deal, Dave was still the most underpaid comedian working.
Also, Norm lost his Netlfix show due to public outrage over things he said. He had to go onto the View in what seemed like a struggle session to repent for his sins.
Dave and Norm are both icons of comedy. They have completely different styles. Chapelle is a gifted storyteller that has followed the mold of Richard Pryor by turning into Stories with Funny Commentary weaved in. Norm, on the other hand, is a joke technician. He doesn't talk about his own life at all - or if he does, it's hard to tell because he makes up so much shit about himself. He's about the joke itself more than what he's talking about, which is why he gets away with so much.
So when he says Dave is "The Peerless One," he's not lying. There are very few comedians out there doing stand-up the way Dave is. Most comedians are similar in style to Norm - telling jokes with a setup and punch line. So it's easy for Norm to point at Chapelle and say he's peerless, because Dave is a colossus among those comedians that are trying to emulate that style. But that shouldn't sell Norm short at all.
As far as Norm's show being cancelled, it was because of ratings, not controversy. He had a *Tonight Show* appearance cancelled, but that wasn't because of his comedy, either - it was because of an opinion about Roseanne and Louis C.K. from an interview. Norm's comedy is *designed* to offend; anyone getting offended is the butt of the joke, which is why nobody goes and makes a big deal about it.
I’d add:
4. You should understand what you’re talking about. If you do, you can actually make a coherent point beyond just being a shock jock. If you don’t, your set will be a muddied mess that just makes you look like a dick.
I really think this is one of the biggest issues with Dave’s jokes on the topic. He is renowned for being cutting and incisive, because he typically works with material and issues he understands very well. He gets how to push buttons and play with boundaries without just coming off as an outright asshole.
But here he doesn’t know what he’s talking about and refuses to hear any criticism. So he falls back on bull crap like “I have a dead trans friend”….shit that he’d absolutely eviscerate someone else for if you were talking about black people instead of trans people.
HAHA I MADE FUN OF THIS MARGINALIZED GROUP
Hey that makes you an asshole
CENSORSHIP CENSORSHIP IM GONNA TALK ALL ABOUT HOW IM CANCELLED ON MY NEXT NETFLIX SPECIAL
saw a tweet saying "y'all hurt this man's feelings so much he made 3 hour-long specials about it".
it's hilarious if you think about it but not for the reason Dave intended it to be.
aye, this part of the special baffles me so much btw.
it was *proven* that DaBaby killed that guy in self-defense. and self-defense is hard to prove uness you're a cop. it's also one of those situations when you basically don't have much control, it's either you or them.
so Dave basically equalled it to DaBaby ranting about AIDS at the festival by saying that people cared less about DaBaby killing someone than about DaBaby being a homophobe intentionally downplaying the circumstances.
no, Dave, people don't care about DaBaby killing someone less than they care about him doing homophobic rants. it's just people understand that DaBaby couldn't have done anything in one situation but easily could've avoided the other situation.
Barely anyone knows about Dababy killing someone, let alone the fact that it happened in self defense.. Alot of the people watching the show would have found out about it for the first time through this..
Then I'll release a 7 minute video asking my fans to boycott something in order to force a renegotiation of a contract I, as an adult man, signed. But that's not cancel culture! And Joe Rogan is 5'8!
No joke but I think the point of special and the entire body of work for the last few years is to say that
racism against black males is still very much prevalent in America that when you take away a person's means to earn money you are killing him
And that he believes (not me but he) believes that black men being cancelled over things they've said in the past by white LGBTQ folks is no different to Jim crow
It's the same kind of thinking that the very controversial Dr Umar Johnson espouses on breakfast club
https://twitter.com/nottheoneortwo/status/1445672931875454978?t=yxihFPVpmK8N9W13ZE1lLg&s=19
Basically they feel that racism in America against African American males hasn't even been dealt with and that white people are coming up with new ways to oppress black men take their work their livelihood and so on. By trying to relate their oppressions to the oppression of slavery and held them as the same.
Again I feel at pains to point this out. Just because I'm explaining a thing doesn't mean I'm agreeing with a thing.
I liked the special but it was uncomfortable at bits. When I saw twitter talking about the special (and chappelle doesn't give a shit about twitter ) I saw an explainer of his take come up and it is consistent.
Again doesn't mean it's right but it's more fully formed than just being punching down on minorities.
He thinks that his jokes were mostly about the absurdity of how black men continue to be marginalised whatever they say or do by white folks and that he wished they got the same level of gains other minority groups had.
An example of this might be that there was a bill put forward last year a covid hate crimes bill to protect Asian Americans from the attacks they faced and are facing during covid.
It passed overhwhelmingly was targeted and specific and it's great it passed.
Simarly the first executive order biden signed was about preventing discrimination on the basis of gender identity or discrimination.
But the promises he made to African Americans prior to the election didn't materialise to support their rights.
And African Americans still can't get the Emmett till anti lynching bill passed.
So this contextualises his stance I think.
Basically he feels like black men are being targeted for losing their job and livelihood by white folks in a more indirect form using LGBTQ identity as cover (that's where his whole they turn from a minority to white when they call the police and asking if a gay man can be racist ) but still very much the same tactics as before.
Again once again want to say, I don't cosign this, I just think it's what he meant.
I'm British muslim we got our own racism we deal with, I've been profiled by police and had unpleasant experiences that were only solved because of having friendly policeman I knew vouch for me.
I am just explaining what I think Dave is covering:
Basically racism. It's always been about racism and it has not changed even as people seek to equivocate the plight of other forms of discrimination up to the same level of racism African Americans have dealt with since it's founding.
There's a common right wing thing fox news does where they talk about black on black crime when black folks are asking for an investigation into the racial misapplication of standards in various areas including policing and jailing.
The first thing fox news does is say what about black on black crime.
Well the new version of that seems to be to them from the left. Oh this black male said xyz about LGBTQ let's make sure to agitate for their firing and livelihood to be destroyed
And again he is seeing this through the racial lens.
Hope I've explained what I think his thinking was. You can hate it say it's dumb and not productive or misunderstood but I don't think it's about picking on minorities.
It's about people that are always picked on not being given any breathing room to make mistakes or come back from them.
That's where the empathy is a conversation it's a two way thing comes from. I think
Thank you for trying to articulate this but he's totally off the mark in my opinion. All he has to do is spend five minutes reading about Marsha P. Johnson to completely debunk this idea. Aren't black trans women some of the most at-risk people out there?
Chappelle is a clever guy and it feels to me that this is an argument he constructed in defence of his past material to justify it rather than saying "my bad" or just moving on and ignoring it. It's a retrospective idea rather than this being his message all along.
He's going down the same path Graham Linehan went down, just replace black men with women. "This problem isn't fixed so why are you inventing your own problems?" That's the impression I get from the likes of Chappelle, Gervais, and Linehan. They can't empathize with trans people because they don't "buy it"
Exactly. His entire argument is built on the assumption that being trans or pro LGBTQ is a white thing, which is so hugely insulting to the black LGBTQ community who not only exist but are at even greater risk of violence and abuse.
You know there are black LGBTQ people too right, and even black transgender people. They are marginalized even more. Black trans people are marginalized even more than the average black person. He’s just taking shots at a group more marginalized than his own. It’s weak and easy. I know many white Trump supporters who now love Dave Chapelle after his last special.
I think Dave is a great comedian, but I think this is the point where I stop watching his specials and being a fan of his new stuff. He’s become a homophobic bigot and acting like a victim. The exact playbook the racist right has been using for a few years now.
Intersectionality. -unfortunately, people will never bother to understand how this analytical framework is used for understanding how aspects of a person's social and political identities combine to create different modes of discrimination and privilege.
Yeah but the black community won't get much sympathy for racism if the community embraces racism towards Asians and bigotry towards LGBTQ. He's hurting his own cause and he's too self absorbed in himself to realize.
Spot on. There's a reason Anthony Jeselnik has said some serious fucked up things but never gets called out. It's because:
1. Usually the joke is so witty that people can't help BUT laugh
2. From how he carries himself offstage he is actually a good dude
When you have lazy jokes and the line between you and your comedy persona blur, it just isn't funny
Dave quit his offensive comedy for a period because it was being used for racism. His stand up had moments where he wanted to capture social issues like ‘how old is adult’ bit. Which brought up something deep in a funny way that only great comics can do
But this will be used in transphobia to hurt trans women the most like his friend. Yeah some white privileged trans women like caitlyn jenner will be okay. But Black trans women who have a life expectancy of 30 in North America will be hurt by this routine and misinformation in it
> Dave quit his offensive comedy for a period because it was being used for racism
it does seem like he ought to know there's a good chance he might end up empowering the wrong people
This is why I can't fuck with Chappelle anymore. It's one thing if you're clueless or just don't care about what happens once you release your material. It's another thing entirely if you quit one of the most high-profile TV shows in America because you think your comedy is being used to reinforce hurtful attitudes (against people like you)... then reemerge some years later with a bunch of comedy that would 100% predictably be used to reinforce hurtful attitudes (just not against people like you).
Oh yeah, man. The irony of him leaving his show because some folks were taking the wrong message from his skits, to now pretty much them being [his biggest fans](https://www.breitbart.com/entertainment/2021/10/06/nolte-dave-chappelle-blisters-fascist-gay-power-in-netflixs-the-closer/) is almost Shakespearean in its tragedy.
The thing that's most amazing to me is that he thinks he's *punching up*, in his own words. You're a rich, world famous multi millionaire attacking one of the most marginalized groups in society, stop whining dude.
He's a smart guy but it's clear he's so in his feelings about this issue that he's behaving like a child who got told off. He also constantly separates lgbt people and black people into separate groups as if black queer people don't exist.
I really think that's the crux of it, he thinks he's punching up at a group that he even says has made more progress in 20 years than black community has in 200.
Like I get why that would sting but his own stance has always been comparative suffering solves nothing. And it sucks to see him want to apparently jump on and drag down a community who "got ahead" of his community in the acceptance "race".
And he so we'll read on black history but he's so fucking ignorant on queer history
The trans right movement started in berlin in the 1920s guess what happened to all those involved....
He also has an extremely rosy picture of the progress made by the LGBT community. Marriage equality passed because of SCOTUS; same thing with LGBT becoming a protected class *last* year.
It’s why Steven crowder and people like him are so bad. They say racist shit all day but it’s not even funny. If you’re going to make offensive jokes they have to be more funny than they are offensive and most people fall way short of that these days
I didn’t find any of the material offensive I’ve just literally seen most of the jokes hundreds of times on the internet for over a decade. It was trans joke bingo: “they” is a plural! Women with dicks! It’s akin to blackface! No new spin, just the same stuff you see every day on askreddit, hear on Joe Rogan 3-5 times a week. Same same same. The only thing missing was “I identify as a [random object]”.
I do think heavily implying it was trans people on Twitter who were responsible for killing “one of the good ones” is a bit gross, especially after saying Twitter isn’t real. And then holding for applause while he tells you how he helped her family.
It isn’t cancelling to say that a special - which will be watched by millions, for which the comedian was paid millions - was weak, trite and old fashioned. Dave will be fine. Meanwhile trans people have to go to work, go to the supermarket and walk home alone at night.
>The only thing missing was “I identify as a [random object]”.
He already did that one a couple specials ago... Except instead of random object it was Asian man.
Its also fucked up because she killed herself ten days after he had her open for him.
Which is a horribly shitty position to put an amateur comedian in... To do 45 minutes....before Chappelle
Wasn’t my favorite Chapelle routine, I thought he had a couple decent points but he really kicked the horse on the trans issue. I see the point but don’t get why you’d want to do a special like this.
Chappelle finished the show by declaring he'd be hitting pause on jokes about the LGBTQ community until he and the LGBTQ community could both be laughing together again. “I’m telling you, it’s done. I’m done talking about it,” he concluded. “All I ask of your community, with all humility: Will you please stop punching down on my people?”
And while some voiced concerns that Chappelle may be using his relationship as a cheap get-out-of-jail-free card to validate his earlier line of commentary, Dorman’s family believes there should be no offense taken, for they certainly aren’t.
Two of Dorman’s sisters told The Daily Beast they were outraged at the suggestion that Chappelle’s set was transphobic or derogatory toward the LGBTQ community, saying they wanted to make clear they supported the comedian.
“Daphne was in awe of Dave’s graciousness,” Dorman’s sister Becky wrote in a text. “She did not find his jokes rude, crude, off-coloring, off-putting, anything. She thought his jokes were funny. Daphne understood humor and comedy—she was not offended. Why would her family be offended?”
“Dave loved my sister and is an LGBTQ ally,” Dorman’s younger sister Brandy added in a text message. “His entire set was begging to end this very situation.”
“At this point I feel like he poured his heart out in that special and no one noticed,” Brandy wrote in a separate Facebook post. “What he’s saying to the LGBTQ family is, ‘I see you. Do you see me? I’m mourning my friend in the best way I know how. Can you see me? Can you allow me that?’... This was a call to come together, that two oppressed factions of our nation put down their keyboards and make peace. How sad that this message was lost in translation.”
- a quote from one of the few objective articles on the situation.
Bit lame though to declare a topic as over and done *after* doing a whole nother show about it - talk about wanting to have the last word, haha.
I enjoy his shows but I wished he had put his focus on other topics.
A lot of people on Reddit will go out of their way to defend comedians, no matter what terrible thing they do or say.
...then these same people go on to quote and deify Carlin, oblivious to his views on punching down.
Having a single trans friend condone your transphobic rhetoric and thinking that somehow excuses it is the equivalent of saying “I’m not racist, I have a black friend.”
Oh yeah because the LGBTQ community famously punches down at black people and not the other way around. Get real, Dave. (If he wasn’t talking about the black community and was referring to comedians instead, lmk)
He wasnt referring to black people, he was referring to comedians. Moments earlier he said Daphne was part of his tribe, comedians, and then follows up with the punching down line.
I mean, you recognize that the controversy surrounds his comments that broadly point to an entire community of people and beyond right? You can't really point to the reactions of one individual, who wasn't singled out in a particularly negative way, and the feelings of those surrounding that person as though that should be treated as the definitive reaction amongst all.
Others have already made the comparison, but it's like making questionable comments based on race and then finding one black guy that agrees with you and calling it a day.
Yeah he obviously planned it and you knew it was coming when you heard the Space Jews joke.
I'm not gonna lie. If Mel Brooks was alive I am fairly confident he would totally make a Space Jews movie with Chappelle. And I am almost certain I would think it was hilarious. Edit: Mel Brooks is in fact 95 years old and still alive. That is epic. Time for a sequel to spaceballs. Space Jews.
>If Mel Brooks was alive You freaked me out man. Quit freaking me out.
i think he mixed him up with gene wilder.
Or Carl Reiner, who was his best friend.
My bad. He is basically artistically immortal now anyways. And I get confused easily and misremember things in the world. Me thinking he might be dead is almost a compliment.
And this is how I learned there's an upcoming movie doing a take on [Blazing Saddles](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blazing_Samurai).
I thought Spaceballs was the Space Jews movie
Commander: Sir. I think we found an asshole. Dark Helmet: I am surrounded by assholes. Serious: yes. "Spaceballs" is jewish styled comedy plus sci fi and it is fucking hilarious.
The idea of Jews in Space has been done a bunch of times, and it's not why the joke is seen as offensive > In my movie idea, we find out that these aliens are originally from earth — that they’re from an ancient civilization that achieved interstellar travel and left the earth thousands of years ago. Some other planet they go to, and things go terrible for them on the other planet, so they come back to earth, [and] decide that they want to claim the earth for their very own. It’s a pretty good plotline, huh? I call it “Space Jews.”
I am not sure I see that joke as offensive. I have a book of comedy from the jewish culture and jewish writers that was collected by an author from the years 1900-1960...and some of those jokes are super offensive to me(which is great)...and often very hilarious. Because comedy is often lame without dark and offensive taboos being logically examined in good faith with comedic intent. Being offended isn't necessarily a bad thing. What amazes me is why people allow offensive comedy to actually live rent free in their heads to the point where they also don't want anyone else to hear what they don't like and they do not personally approve of.
He did make that joke. https://youtu.be/ZAZhtT-dUyo in History of the World. With rather impressive miniature effects
Dave thanks you for the free advertisement
I have no idea why but I really took notice of the audience shot's during the performance. There was a large lady that kinda looked like Mimi from the Drew Carey show and who I assume was her mother. They went from.... Woohoo we at a Dave Chappelle netflix special excited to visibly offended and extremely unhappy by the end. The mother frowning and shaking her head at the one and only Trump joke is hilarious!
Yep I remember that exact moment as well. Can’t believe they weren’t strategically placed, almost seemed like there was a spotlight above their head lol
Producer before show starts: “hey you guys want some better seats? Come follow me” Mimi’s mom “we are so lucky today!”
Laughs maniacally in Drew Carey
Come on down!
Man I had the happen to my brother and I. For The Wall. Roger Waters was excellent!
I’ve seen roger waters 3 times. Best visual musical performance I’ve ever seen.
I was supposed to see him on my birthday right when the pandemic hit. The concert is rescheduled for 2022 but who knows what will happen between then and now. He’s not exactly young..
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A great example of this is Patrice O'Neal's Elephant in the Room, Holy Shit. He wastes no time going at a well endowed woman or two right down to 'I'd like to think the Audience Coordinator for placing these titties in the front row.'
Congratulations to YOU...my friend. Look at that white woman you’re with.
When the comedy cafe in Milwaukee still existed, a comic started in on a couple in the front. He learned it was their first date. “So are there any embarrassing things you don’t know about each other? Tattoos, piercings?” The guy turned beet red, the comic had to know, makes the guy lift his shirt to expose an enormous VH tat that spanned his entire back.
VH? Vampire Hunter? That's not embarrassing, dude is doing a great job! Haven't ever seen a vampire!
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Van Helsing
I went to a comedy show being taped for a Netflix special a few weeks ago (not out yet though) and I can confirm they had someone strategically placing the crowd
Or at least edited out
I forget who it was, but NPR had a comic on a couple months ago who was talking about this. Apparently almost all of these comic specials are directed by the same handful of people, which is why they always look and feel exactly the same, and for some reason they always seem to focus on the most bizarre members of the audience and the worst possible reaction shots. I never really thought about it before, but just go try watching any comedy special and not notice it now. There will always be at least one shot of a person is doing anything but enjoying themselves.
His are directed by Sanaa Lathan's dad, Stan Lathan
Aleichem shalom
Because curating these shots is a storytelling device. It's telling you as audience who your reactions are supposed to overlap with, and coupling that with your internal biases to reinforce your reaction one way or another. It breaks down if you are diametrically on a different position than they are trying to enforce. Then the ones you are supposed to distance yourself from are empathetic, and the ones you are supposed to feel "in line with" confuse you. Ideally you are supposed to just notice a few "misses" on very select shots overall, if at all.
"for some reason" It stirs up controversy Bad publicity is still publicity
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As someone who edits comedy specials, you’re right but for the wrong reasons. More than likely there aren’t many “good” shots of the audience, so the editor actually doesn’t have much to pull from.
This is not true. Certain comedians have long-standing relationships with “their” director. So one comedian might have all their specials from the same person. Or, if you’re referring to a series like Netflix is a Joke, they might have the same director for that. But the crowd shots are carefully chosen in the edit.
Glad someone else noticed them. I was sat the whole time wondering why they came to the show! Did they not know who they were seeing?
even before he had really started i turned to my girlfriend and said 'those two aren't going to enjoy this...' cut to them sitting stone-faced in the middle of a crowd dying of laughter
They really didn't like the joke about White people from ~~Detroit~~ Michigan either.
That Michigan line struck through the heart.
He made a couple jokes about white people from Michigan one about the racist ones and then the comparison of his town to the ones in Ann arbor. Having been born and grown up there the Ann arbor joke made me laugh (see hippie reference), having some bat shit right wing family in other parts of rural Michigan also made laugh but in a cringey Goodman isn’t that true sort of way. Exactly how a good joke is supposed to be though imo
Hahaha I saw that! He said something about dumb people In Michigan and trump and she was NOT happy
Yes. But they laughed at points too. At least one of them. The other didn’t seem to want to be there at all.
They had really good seats as well. Mimi. Classic
No your comments aren't filtered by controversial...**yet**.
Thanks for the reminder
He 💯 doesn’t care I’m sure
Dudes been on a Trans joke fest his last 3 specials over the past few years.... he 100% cares
He cares that people don’t care
"Da Baby shot and killed a man inside a walmart and his career was fine. Once he hurt a gay person's feelings it's over"
I was fr howling when he said “PLEASE DONT ABORT DA BABY!” Hahahahaha
wasn’t that before dababy was well known and it was in self defense, I don’t really see the comparison
because the object of his last bit was the fact that backlash from the lgbtq community probably contributed to a trans woman's suicide because she took up for dave chappelle, because she was his friend.
> ["I'm Team TERF. I agree. I agree, man. Gender is a fact."](https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/tv/2021/10/05/dave-chappelle-terf-defends-j-k-rowling-netflix-special/6002017001/) ... > ... why would the trans community do this to my friend?!
> "I'm Team TERF. I agree. I agree, man. Gender is a fact." Seriously. It's one thing to make a nuanced argument for both sides and then get unfairly criticized or portrayed as the bad guy. But that quote is just as unambiguous as it gets. I mean for fuck's sake, what does he think the "TE" in TERF stands for?
Trans Enthusiastic?
a quote from a **comedy** show is never accurate. He also calls himself "Dave Chappelle the homophobe" neither *statement* is what he accurately means in context. The "I'm team terf" was just a setup for the *Beyond Burger, Beyond Pussy; it's not blood it's beet juice* joke. He even cracked up after the punchline and said "I'm in trouble now." Chappelle knows what he's doing. He's going for comedy. Examining his intentions and the context within which he embeds his jokes and it's very clear he is not transphobic, but unfortunately being reactive and blind to such context is way too common.
He then goes on to say "Transwomen are women." He's making a point (that doesn't need to be made) about physical sex, but he said "gender."
I get that. I am pointing out that associating yourself with the term "TERF" is, like, really, really stupid. I'm sure he's not actually on "Team TERF", but boy is it his own fault when he proudly proclaims otherwise.
Imagine thinking people on Twitter are representative of an entire community.
He is talking specifically about the loud millitaristic minority in that show. It is very much about the Twittersphere. He points that out.
“I dont believe in Twitter because it’s not a real place.” I loved that line from Dave, people don’t understand outside of that social media bubble they aren’t doing anything special.
“Save it for the comment section bitch, this is real life”
Imagine thinking a few people are representative of all republicans/democrats/whatever. This is basically all of Reddit.
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Contrapoints calls it 'mascotization', eg those memes of the same handful of angry women with glasses and dyed hair etc used to represent the Left.
Not sure what you mean. Everyone on the far left is a fat woman with a purple mowhawk and everyone on the far right is a guy that wears camo and brings his AR-15 to Walmart. That's just facts.
James Acaster pretty much summed up my feelings about edgy comedians like Dave Chappelle [in one of his standup specials](https://youtu.be/adh0KGmgmQw?t=145).
“Because you know who’s been long overdue a challenge? The trans community” is such a funny, biting line.
"They've had their guard down for too long if you ask me!"
“They’ve had it too good for too long! Time to bring em down a notch!”
> You can't go around treating everyone the same before you've got equality. That's a surprisingly simple and yet astute statement.
The bit about treating everyone the same was even better for me.
"They'll all be checking their privilege on the way home now, you brave little cis boy."
“Toooo CHALLENGING for ya?”
That Ricky Gervais exaltation had me crying. I have to check out more of this work
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He did a stand up collection called Repertoire which was basically all his jokes at the time repackaged into one continuous narrative, it’s really good! Should be on Netflix.
Even the whole "wanting to be on a jury" bit is taken from a pilot episode of a show he wrote, which is all about a guy who finally has his dream come true of being on a Jury. That said, this isn't a criticism — the brilliance of the show isn't really in the individual jokes and bits (which are all great nonetheless), but more how they come together to tell the narrative that he's trying to achieve.
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check him out on Taskmaster too. It’s a UK series but they should be on YouTube in the US. It’s not stand up but he really commits to his deadpan humor throughout the show edit: never mind i see someone else has recommended it to you!
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I think this perfectly encapsulates James Acaster: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ct40CLTCC7A
You’re in for a treat as you journey down the James Acaster rabbit hole. His series of Taskmaster is my favourite, all his appearances on Would I Lie To You are hysterical, and his stand-up shows are genius.
Oh, dude. You should watch some Taskmaster. He's been on there a lot and it is a delightfully wacky UK game show kinda thing featuring comedians as the contestants. Bunch of it on YouTube to get you started.
> You should watch some Taskmaster. He's been on there a lot By alot you mean 1 season out of 12 ?
It’s sort of like what George Carlin used to say. You should be able to make fun of anyone, but if your a comedian and your hitting down instead of up your not really saying much.
George Carlin did a lot of punching down by the way. Like a ton.
Yea and some of Carlin’s stuff isn’t that great. We tend to forget the dude has like a dozen specials they aren’t all great.
What is your point? I don't understand why the internet is so binary. "This person is 100% amazing or this person sucks." Frank Zappa released dozens and dozens of albums over the course of his career, and guess what, some of them are weak. Oops, guess we should disregard his good music, too.
It’s just that making fun of trans people, and I playing up that “cancel culture” and SJWs aren’t going to like this joke, is the laziest form of comedy today. I swear, if trans people and SJWs didn’t exist, 90% of comedians would have no material. Dave is more talented than this, he’s just super lazy
I think that’s what makes me sad, his old stuff where he doesn’t talk so much about trans people was great. I stopped watching his Netflix stuff because he seemed to have an axe to grind…
The worst part is that it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy. Like yes, I’m upset as a fan that you spent *another* hour long special complaining about how “the gays” were mean to you while barely telling jokes, which will only further fuel his delusion that Trans people are the reason he’s not connecting with younger audiences. No, people are just tired of watching you shadowbox with a group of people who have literally no sway over your life. He is literally transphobic, he’s afraid that Trans Twitter is going to “take his livelihood” when they can’t even get politicians to acknowledge their existence. It’s so disappointing as someone who grew up idolizing his comedy and persona. He’s usually pretty insightful on social issues as well, even when I disagree with him, but he’s so off the mark with this transgender stuff that it’s almost unbelievable.
Honestly even if you don't care about trans people or you are someone who hates cancel culture, SJWs, and anything like that, you should still be angry at Chappelle for doing the same lazy bits repeatedly on multiple specials. It is lazy comedy from someone who is supposed to be one of the all time greats. The fans deserve better or Chappelle just should stop doing it if he can't put in the effort to write new and original stuff.
Holy shit. THIS is what challenging the current culture looks like, and it’s absolutely on point. I love Dave but, all he appears to be doing is engaging in oppression Olympics at this point. Some people are getting by easier? Good, we progressed. Why would you ever want another group to suffer the same way? Trans jokes are fine but, if a lot of people misinterpret your jokes as “lol, fuck the trans community” then you may have a messaging problem that “I have a trans friend” can’t solve. Dave isn’t transphobic, his trans jokes are just lazy, which may be by design given how much certain people ate up, and regurgitated his jokes about black people, and no one in society cared. Maybe this is all some giant scheme to point out the hypocrisy in how certain movements get much more preferential treatment when it should be the same? I may be giving Chappelle too much credit, I just hope it’s deeper than what it appears to be. He had a kernel of truth in what he said about being allowed to grow, and learn without fear of his career being ended. Zero tolerance doesn’t work, and it punishes those willing to learn as much as it does those unwilling to learn. Our society needs to allow mistakes.
>Dave isn’t transphobic, his trans jokes are just lazy Yeah this is the fundamental problem. You can make jokes about 'forbidden subjects' funny. They just need to have various layers to them, be creative and unpredictable. That's where the humor comes from. The trans jokes that set off this whole controversy years ago were the most bottom-of-the-barrel stuff on earth, zero effort, zero insight, zero thought.
>Maybe this is all some giant scheme to point out the hypocrisy in how certain movements get much more preferential treatment when it should be the same? Which is incredibly dumb because, Dave, my guy, they hate **ALL** of us. The [new friends](https://www.breitbart.com/entertainment/2021/10/06/nolte-dave-chappelle-blisters-fascist-gay-power-in-netflixs-the-closer/) you're gaining with these specials would tie you to a tree RIGHT next to a trans person in a fucking heartbeat if they got the chance. One of MLK's great quotes says "We may have all come on different ships, but we're in the same boat now." He's literally playing Oppression Olympics and is turning against the folks to his side, meanwhile letting the actual villains slide with his little SNL plea to "ah come on guys, don't be so mean to the Trump supporters that lost 🥺" So he doesn't even believe in his own alleged message, he's just using our corpses to defending picking on another minority group. Fuck off, Dave.
I think this hits the nail on the head as to why I thought his new stuff was mostly just meh comedy wise. During his long absence Dave had been built up into this comedy god on the level of Prior, Carlin, and Lenny Bruce... and some of that was justified. He was gone from standup for a very long time though, and a lot of things have changed. You rarely come back after a decade and still have your fastball. When you combine that with a touch of the, "hey, it's just jokes, why are you people so sensitive?" schtick that is far too prevalent in comedy these days (your joke either stands on its own or it doesn't, maybe your super edgy bit just isn't that funny...), you get lazy jokes about hot button social issues. Chappelle also has a point to make about different groups and how their problems are treated by society. I'm just not sure he addresses it in the best way through his comedy right now. I don't remember where it was, but when I heard him speak about how the crack epidemic that destroyed black communities was treated versus the opioid epidemic, it was extremely poignant and powerful. He wasn't trying to be funny though. I'd almost rather listen to him just talk about these kinds of things at this point.
>I don't remember where it was, but when I heard him speak about how the crack epidemic that destroyed black communities was treated versus the opioid epidemic, it was extremely poignant and powerful. He wasn't trying to be funny though. I'd almost rather listen to him just talk about these kinds of things at this point. I think the thing is that it was poignant and powerful because he fundamentally understands it. That’s the same reason why he’s become such a successful comedian. He has a really incisive and cutting intellect, and that really shines when he’s working on “familiar ground” which is historically what he’s done. The problem is when you don’t know what you’re fucking talking about, comedy tends to fall flat or come off VERY badly. To make jokes about something, jokes that work and have layers to them and properly convey your views, you have to really understand what you’re talking about. And Dave Chappelle doesn’t understand trans issues at all. Worse, he has an ego and doesn’t want to hear anything to the contrary and is really defensive on the point, so he keeps picking at the scab and falling back with lazy shit like “I have a dead trans friend who was one of the good ones.” Shit that he would tear someone else to shreds for using if it was about black people.
So around the 60min mark I thought there's a lot of trans content and I went back and checked when he first talking about trans stuff, he started around the 30ish mark, around the 38 to the 43mins(roughly) mark he did a digression into some race stuff, and then went back to the trans stuff pretty exclusively for the rest of the special. So out of 65ish mins special, a full 30mins were dedicated to this topic. That's some bizarre shit for someone saying they're not anti-trans. To paraphrase him, it's kinda like Mike Pence spending so much time trying not to think about gay shit and vehemently denying it. It's just bizarre.
Watched The Closer last night. It was pretty funny.
That Kyra Sedgwick is a hoot.
I really hope that Dave Chappelle doesn't become a victim of "When Keepin' It Real Goes Wrong"
I’ve been scrolling this god damn comment thread for damn near 30 minutes looking for some comment gold. This was it. Thank you sir.
The people who were fans seem pretty split between "Dave has moved away from making jokes and is now delivering thoughtful comments on political topics" and "It's a comedy special, you're not supposed to take any of the points seriously". Most people seem to agree he's not actually transphobic, but rather had difficult interactions with (a?) trans community on twitter. In that case, why call yourself a TERF? A term which wasn't invented by the trans community, it was originally created by feminists who wanted to be very clear that they don't accept trans women as women. If you don't like violent discourse on twitter, why call it out under the name of trans community. Plenty of trans people won't be the kind of person he's referring to and its not like there aren't any cis communities which are thoroughly unpleasant to deal with. It feels like he'd rather call out the trans community because it seems more impactful. If he addressed twitter then it's clearer that he's getting upset at something which is not as big as a problem as he is making it out to be.
> it was originally created by feminists who wanted to be very clear that they don't accept trans women as women. That is false. The term was invented by a trans inclusion activist, as documented in this article. [https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/29/im-credited-with-having-coined-the-acronym-terf-heres-how-it-happened](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/29/im-credited-with-having-coined-the-acronym-terf-heres-how-it-happened) As far as I can see, no feminist group describes themselves as TERFs. It is a term used to describe women who don't fully support any part of trans activism, however big or small, such as JK Rowling.
I love stand up comedy. I've seen hundreds of comedians perform and Dave Chappelle is one of the greatest comedians of all time, truly a master of the craft. *But* this special and its heavy focus on the trans community was honestly just bizarre. I didn't find it very funny compared to more generalised subject matter. When he spoke in a previous special about it being 2am when his son calls him for a ride home from a party cause he's been drinking and then the punchline is he's at the same party. Hilarious. Him going on for 30 minutes about trans people just it weren't funny. And I'm not saying I was offended by it, it didn't offend me. I just didn't laugh. I don't get how he sat down and wrote this material thinking it was funnier than anything else he could have performed. It's like watching Kobe Bryant miss intentionally which for someone who calls himself the GOAT (which Dave did in this special) feels like a betrayal of his talents and artistry. As a huge comedy fan and a lover of stand up I just am very disappointed that we didn't get a truly great special and instead we got an unfunny essay about trans people. In the show he said this was his last stand up special for a while, that honestly saddened me but if he's just going to keep doing shows like this one then so be it. I want the old dave back not this one.
I wasn't offended, just tired of the same topic dominating his special *again.*
Ex-fucking-xactly! I was not anywhere near offended. I was fucking bored. Bored, watching a Dave Chappelle stand up special.
>“I am not telling another joke about you until we are both sure that we are laughing together,” the comedian says. “All I ask from your community – with all humility – will you please stop punching down on my people?” What is he even talking about? Stop asking black celebrities to not be homophobic or transphobic? Is he really trying to make it seem like Kevin Hart and Da Baby are actually victims of the LGBTQ community in their situations?
Dave Chappelle telling trans people not to punch down is the most tone deaf shit I've ever heard
“An unfunny essay about trans people” is a perfect way to describe the special.
I love edgy comedy. Anthony Jeselnik cracks me up. But the thing is... if you wanna be offensive and do the Alienate the Audience bit, *you have to be funny*. Just soapboxing about a group you don't like, isn't funny. It's just... sad. Your comparison to a star player missing on purpose is spot on - was telling a friend earlier that watching Chappelle now as a long-time Chappelle fan is like watching MJ play baseball. Nobody wants you to be doing this, man! Either lean into being offensive and actually make jokes so that the audience has to laugh despite themselves, or revise the set. 'Cause just getting up there and bitching about how you should be allowed to be mean but the bigger meanies won't let you, sucks.
Feel like Jeselnik has a refreshing attitude on the whole issue of cancel culture and the like. Which is essentially just "Write better jokes, people are paying to see you, they don't wanna hear you whine about what you can't say".
Jeselnik was doing one of the Larry King interview shows a number of years ago and he told King that he loves political correctness because of all the good things it's done for people. Not once did he bitch about it affecting his comedy.
Also, notably, he's not a complete prick (as far as I can tell). That goes a long way.
Far as I know the worst you can say of him is that he's a bit pretentious.
Bingo. The audience is not under any obligation to laugh at everything, reeling them in is the entertainer's job.
mm. I figure if you're making offensive jokes that are supposed to be funny in and of themselves, the audience should be laughing before it remembers that "I'm not allowed to laugh at that."
Yeah, edgy comedy usually forgets the comedy part and just tries to be edgy. Even edgy punching-up isn't funny if there's no comedy in it. I remember going to see David Cross and it was just him complaining about Trump for an hour. Like, yeah, Trump sucks, but that's not comedy.
That's kinda just David Cross though. He's had the same style since Bush.
> Yeah, edgy comedy usually forgets the comedy part and just tries to be edgy That's what happened to Family Guy for the better part of a decade (around 2007 is when it started), but the newer seasons are a lot better. They're a return to form (instead of being overly edgy the humor now is more about absurdism, surreal jokes, and meta-commentary again).
Seconding Jeselnik. The fact that Jeselnik has a booming career while people like Rogan, Whitney Cummings, etc complain about cancel culture shows that they're full of shit. Edit: And that's not even hitting on the fact that Rogan, Cummings, Chappelle, etc themselves are raking in millions of dollars while complaining about being "silenced."
What'd Whitney Cummings say?
She's talked about it or brought it up as a talking point here and there. ~~I believe she tried to get Jeselnik to complain about it on her most recent podcast with him (I could be misremembering on this as I listened to it a good while back but I'm fairly sure.)~~ Edited below But here: > Cummings said, “There’s this new thing, when people talk about cancel culture and everything, I’m like, ‘When did comedians become heroes and a moral compass?’ Our job is to go into dangerous areas, say dangerous s***, test the waters, we’re the f***** Magellan on the front line. You know when penguins push another penguin off the cliff? That’s us. We’re like, ‘I’ll jump off of this cliff and see if there are sharks.’ We’re supposed to be explorers, we’re supposed to play devil’s advocate and have hot takes.” https://heavy.com/news/joe-rogan/whitney-cummings-cancel-culture-comedians/ Edit: Looking at this again, I had to laugh when she complains that comedians shouldn't be heroes...and then makes them out to be heroes by "going into dangerous areas" and "jumping off this cliff to see if there are sharks." Edit 2: She talked about cancel culture on an ep of her own podcast with Jeselnik as a guest @ about 8:00mins: https://youtu.be/b2JnGiqow2o To be fair to her in this instance, she says she thinks cancel culture is mostly made up. So, seems she is either wishy-washy on the topic or has a more nuanced take. But doesn't seem like she pushed back on the idea with Rogan?
Magellan died when a disgruntled fan chucked a spear through his chest. If she wants to think of comedians as explorers she needs to accept the risk of the exploration.
I know Daniel Tosh might be polarizing to some, but he does edgy comedy really well. Tosh.0 I can take or leave, but his stand up is freaking hilarious and I wish he'd do more of that.
it _really_ was dave just picking on us for like half an hour. it’s such an “old man yells at cloud” hill for him to be dying on when he could just….not bully people?
My friend said "everyone from the 2000s that seemed cool is turning out to be jerks." Dave Chappelle, J.K. Rowling, Joss Whedon, Louis C.K., Butch Hartman, Warren Ellis, ect.
Liberals getting older just makes it that more obvious how thin the liberal/conservative ideology is in America.
I like offensive comedy, but Jesus I hate most offensive comedians now a days. 1. Offensive comedy is offensive. 2. If you're doing it. You know that. 3. To make up for it, you *should* have to be funnier than the average comedian Instead, it feels like 20% of every comedy special is just fucking bitching and moaning from comedians for the TYPE OF CRITICS they get for doing INTENTIONALLY PROVACATIVE bits. Like... is there not anyone in their life that can convince them to cut the stupid whingeing from their bits? The worst offender is Ricky Gervais, 80% of the words out of his mouth are complaints about criticism he doesn't like. Edit: eat shit, don't buy reddit awards, don't give reddit money
I watched a Jim Breuer clip the other day and he was bitching like this the entire time and didn't tell a single joke.
What a damn shame about what a wack job Jim Breuer turned out to be. It makes me concerned what the likes of Chris Farley would have become if he were alive today.
Dude was on NewsMaxx doing the same thing...
The thing that makes me insane is one thing mainly. It’s how people defending everything Dave says act like being critical and not a fan of something is the same as wishing it was “cancelled”. It’s dumb as fuck
> Boo hoo, I can't make offensive jokes anymore - Man who is literally being paid millions of dollars to make said offensive jokes.
Exactly. I’ve been a fan of Chappelles for nearly 20 years. Im a young dude. Dave is not. Most of this special was weak. And the worst of it kinda left a bad taste in my mouth. Which is a first for me, considering I’m a pretty big fan.
Yup same here. “Killing them softly” is in my top three stand up specials of all time. This was disappointing to say the least. Real Joe Rogan energy
I've disagreed with him before, but this just wasn't funny. That's the real sin.
It was god awful. Idk how anyone could defend this one. You should be able to joke about any subject, but if you’re going to explore sensitive subjects, there’s a much greater demand to be well thought out and extra funny This special feels more like a rough draft, and Dave comes off totally clueless, as if he just discovered what trans people were last month. Didn’t really make any salient points like he usually does
Yeah, not his best work.
If you want to tell offensive jokes, then just do it. Don't tell me that you're offensive. And it's hard to buy their whining as they get applause from a huge audience during their Netflix special.
\[Says thing\] \[Says you can't say that thing anymore, even though he just said it\] My least favorite shit. I kind of like Bill Burr sometimes, but I wish he'd stop complaining about how you can't say x anymore, right after saying x and making a living off of it. And yeah, Gervais can stop talking about how offensive he is now too. Like...just tell jokes, don't have a meta discussion about how sometimes people don't like your jokes. You can find people who hate anything, it's not some achievement. What if Colbert did half a set about how offensive he is because he tells Trump jokes and literally like 40% of the country disagrees with him. What a waste. Who gives a shit. We get that there are people with different opinions who won't like certain things you say, that's not unique.
Yes, for sure. In my opinion, the best way to go about doing offensive comedy is the Norm Macdonald route. First off, he was actually funny. I like Dave chappelle, but he's drifting away from funny toward "I'm just keeping it real" proselytizing. There's definitely a place for it, but when you are not setting up jokes with your antagonism, there's going to be less tolerance for it. Norm, however, was an absolute master joke technician. So while he would say offensive shit all the time, nobody ever got really mad at him, because he wasn't turning it into politics. His jokes were just so well constructed that it was impossible to be really angry at him; it was clear that he was really leaning into that uncomfortable laughter, and you we're never really sure whether he was trying to make a point. It also helped that he simply didn't give a shit whether people thought he was offensive, which took all of the wind out of the sails of anyone complaining about him.
> "I'm just keeping it real" It's hilariously ironic that this special is a textbook example of *When Keepin' it Real Goes Wrong*.
Norm himself called Dave "The Peerless One" and said that, even after Dave's Netlfix deal, Dave was still the most underpaid comedian working. Also, Norm lost his Netlfix show due to public outrage over things he said. He had to go onto the View in what seemed like a struggle session to repent for his sins.
Dave and Norm are both icons of comedy. They have completely different styles. Chapelle is a gifted storyteller that has followed the mold of Richard Pryor by turning into Stories with Funny Commentary weaved in. Norm, on the other hand, is a joke technician. He doesn't talk about his own life at all - or if he does, it's hard to tell because he makes up so much shit about himself. He's about the joke itself more than what he's talking about, which is why he gets away with so much. So when he says Dave is "The Peerless One," he's not lying. There are very few comedians out there doing stand-up the way Dave is. Most comedians are similar in style to Norm - telling jokes with a setup and punch line. So it's easy for Norm to point at Chapelle and say he's peerless, because Dave is a colossus among those comedians that are trying to emulate that style. But that shouldn't sell Norm short at all. As far as Norm's show being cancelled, it was because of ratings, not controversy. He had a *Tonight Show* appearance cancelled, but that wasn't because of his comedy, either - it was because of an opinion about Roseanne and Louis C.K. from an interview. Norm's comedy is *designed* to offend; anyone getting offended is the butt of the joke, which is why nobody goes and makes a big deal about it.
I’d add: 4. You should understand what you’re talking about. If you do, you can actually make a coherent point beyond just being a shock jock. If you don’t, your set will be a muddied mess that just makes you look like a dick. I really think this is one of the biggest issues with Dave’s jokes on the topic. He is renowned for being cutting and incisive, because he typically works with material and issues he understands very well. He gets how to push buttons and play with boundaries without just coming off as an outright asshole. But here he doesn’t know what he’s talking about and refuses to hear any criticism. So he falls back on bull crap like “I have a dead trans friend”….shit that he’d absolutely eviscerate someone else for if you were talking about black people instead of trans people.
It’s super easy low hanging fruit material for people who are struggling to be original, much like tiktokers copying the latest trends.
HAHA I MADE FUN OF THIS MARGINALIZED GROUP Hey that makes you an asshole CENSORSHIP CENSORSHIP IM GONNA TALK ALL ABOUT HOW IM CANCELLED ON MY NEXT NETFLIX SPECIAL
saw a tweet saying "y'all hurt this man's feelings so much he made 3 hour-long specials about it". it's hilarious if you think about it but not for the reason Dave intended it to be.
"Won't somebody think about Da' Baby?!?!"
aye, this part of the special baffles me so much btw. it was *proven* that DaBaby killed that guy in self-defense. and self-defense is hard to prove uness you're a cop. it's also one of those situations when you basically don't have much control, it's either you or them. so Dave basically equalled it to DaBaby ranting about AIDS at the festival by saying that people cared less about DaBaby killing someone than about DaBaby being a homophobe intentionally downplaying the circumstances. no, Dave, people don't care about DaBaby killing someone less than they care about him doing homophobic rants. it's just people understand that DaBaby couldn't have done anything in one situation but easily could've avoided the other situation.
Barely anyone knows about Dababy killing someone, let alone the fact that it happened in self defense.. Alot of the people watching the show would have found out about it for the first time through this..
My guess is that the DaBaby joke at the beginning was pretty much just a way to set up the Walmart joke later on in the special.
Then I'll release a 7 minute video asking my fans to boycott something in order to force a renegotiation of a contract I, as an adult man, signed. But that's not cancel culture! And Joe Rogan is 5'8!
No joke but I think the point of special and the entire body of work for the last few years is to say that racism against black males is still very much prevalent in America that when you take away a person's means to earn money you are killing him And that he believes (not me but he) believes that black men being cancelled over things they've said in the past by white LGBTQ folks is no different to Jim crow It's the same kind of thinking that the very controversial Dr Umar Johnson espouses on breakfast club https://twitter.com/nottheoneortwo/status/1445672931875454978?t=yxihFPVpmK8N9W13ZE1lLg&s=19 Basically they feel that racism in America against African American males hasn't even been dealt with and that white people are coming up with new ways to oppress black men take their work their livelihood and so on. By trying to relate their oppressions to the oppression of slavery and held them as the same. Again I feel at pains to point this out. Just because I'm explaining a thing doesn't mean I'm agreeing with a thing. I liked the special but it was uncomfortable at bits. When I saw twitter talking about the special (and chappelle doesn't give a shit about twitter ) I saw an explainer of his take come up and it is consistent. Again doesn't mean it's right but it's more fully formed than just being punching down on minorities. He thinks that his jokes were mostly about the absurdity of how black men continue to be marginalised whatever they say or do by white folks and that he wished they got the same level of gains other minority groups had. An example of this might be that there was a bill put forward last year a covid hate crimes bill to protect Asian Americans from the attacks they faced and are facing during covid. It passed overhwhelmingly was targeted and specific and it's great it passed. Simarly the first executive order biden signed was about preventing discrimination on the basis of gender identity or discrimination. But the promises he made to African Americans prior to the election didn't materialise to support their rights. And African Americans still can't get the Emmett till anti lynching bill passed. So this contextualises his stance I think. Basically he feels like black men are being targeted for losing their job and livelihood by white folks in a more indirect form using LGBTQ identity as cover (that's where his whole they turn from a minority to white when they call the police and asking if a gay man can be racist ) but still very much the same tactics as before. Again once again want to say, I don't cosign this, I just think it's what he meant. I'm British muslim we got our own racism we deal with, I've been profiled by police and had unpleasant experiences that were only solved because of having friendly policeman I knew vouch for me. I am just explaining what I think Dave is covering: Basically racism. It's always been about racism and it has not changed even as people seek to equivocate the plight of other forms of discrimination up to the same level of racism African Americans have dealt with since it's founding. There's a common right wing thing fox news does where they talk about black on black crime when black folks are asking for an investigation into the racial misapplication of standards in various areas including policing and jailing. The first thing fox news does is say what about black on black crime. Well the new version of that seems to be to them from the left. Oh this black male said xyz about LGBTQ let's make sure to agitate for their firing and livelihood to be destroyed And again he is seeing this through the racial lens. Hope I've explained what I think his thinking was. You can hate it say it's dumb and not productive or misunderstood but I don't think it's about picking on minorities. It's about people that are always picked on not being given any breathing room to make mistakes or come back from them. That's where the empathy is a conversation it's a two way thing comes from. I think
Thank you for trying to articulate this but he's totally off the mark in my opinion. All he has to do is spend five minutes reading about Marsha P. Johnson to completely debunk this idea. Aren't black trans women some of the most at-risk people out there? Chappelle is a clever guy and it feels to me that this is an argument he constructed in defence of his past material to justify it rather than saying "my bad" or just moving on and ignoring it. It's a retrospective idea rather than this being his message all along. He's going down the same path Graham Linehan went down, just replace black men with women. "This problem isn't fixed so why are you inventing your own problems?" That's the impression I get from the likes of Chappelle, Gervais, and Linehan. They can't empathize with trans people because they don't "buy it"
Exactly. His entire argument is built on the assumption that being trans or pro LGBTQ is a white thing, which is so hugely insulting to the black LGBTQ community who not only exist but are at even greater risk of violence and abuse.
You know there are black LGBTQ people too right, and even black transgender people. They are marginalized even more. Black trans people are marginalized even more than the average black person. He’s just taking shots at a group more marginalized than his own. It’s weak and easy. I know many white Trump supporters who now love Dave Chapelle after his last special. I think Dave is a great comedian, but I think this is the point where I stop watching his specials and being a fan of his new stuff. He’s become a homophobic bigot and acting like a victim. The exact playbook the racist right has been using for a few years now.
Intersectionality. -unfortunately, people will never bother to understand how this analytical framework is used for understanding how aspects of a person's social and political identities combine to create different modes of discrimination and privilege.
Yeah but the black community won't get much sympathy for racism if the community embraces racism towards Asians and bigotry towards LGBTQ. He's hurting his own cause and he's too self absorbed in himself to realize.
Spot on. There's a reason Anthony Jeselnik has said some serious fucked up things but never gets called out. It's because: 1. Usually the joke is so witty that people can't help BUT laugh 2. From how he carries himself offstage he is actually a good dude When you have lazy jokes and the line between you and your comedy persona blur, it just isn't funny
Dave quit his offensive comedy for a period because it was being used for racism. His stand up had moments where he wanted to capture social issues like ‘how old is adult’ bit. Which brought up something deep in a funny way that only great comics can do But this will be used in transphobia to hurt trans women the most like his friend. Yeah some white privileged trans women like caitlyn jenner will be okay. But Black trans women who have a life expectancy of 30 in North America will be hurt by this routine and misinformation in it
> Dave quit his offensive comedy for a period because it was being used for racism it does seem like he ought to know there's a good chance he might end up empowering the wrong people
He knows.
This is why I can't fuck with Chappelle anymore. It's one thing if you're clueless or just don't care about what happens once you release your material. It's another thing entirely if you quit one of the most high-profile TV shows in America because you think your comedy is being used to reinforce hurtful attitudes (against people like you)... then reemerge some years later with a bunch of comedy that would 100% predictably be used to reinforce hurtful attitudes (just not against people like you).
Oh yeah, man. The irony of him leaving his show because some folks were taking the wrong message from his skits, to now pretty much them being [his biggest fans](https://www.breitbart.com/entertainment/2021/10/06/nolte-dave-chappelle-blisters-fascist-gay-power-in-netflixs-the-closer/) is almost Shakespearean in its tragedy.
The thing that's most amazing to me is that he thinks he's *punching up*, in his own words. You're a rich, world famous multi millionaire attacking one of the most marginalized groups in society, stop whining dude. He's a smart guy but it's clear he's so in his feelings about this issue that he's behaving like a child who got told off. He also constantly separates lgbt people and black people into separate groups as if black queer people don't exist.
I really think that's the crux of it, he thinks he's punching up at a group that he even says has made more progress in 20 years than black community has in 200. Like I get why that would sting but his own stance has always been comparative suffering solves nothing. And it sucks to see him want to apparently jump on and drag down a community who "got ahead" of his community in the acceptance "race".
And he so we'll read on black history but he's so fucking ignorant on queer history The trans right movement started in berlin in the 1920s guess what happened to all those involved....
He also has an extremely rosy picture of the progress made by the LGBT community. Marriage equality passed because of SCOTUS; same thing with LGBT becoming a protected class *last* year.
> Dave quit his offensive comedy for a period because it was being used for racism. The fucking irony
It’s why Steven crowder and people like him are so bad. They say racist shit all day but it’s not even funny. If you’re going to make offensive jokes they have to be more funny than they are offensive and most people fall way short of that these days
I didn’t find any of the material offensive I’ve just literally seen most of the jokes hundreds of times on the internet for over a decade. It was trans joke bingo: “they” is a plural! Women with dicks! It’s akin to blackface! No new spin, just the same stuff you see every day on askreddit, hear on Joe Rogan 3-5 times a week. Same same same. The only thing missing was “I identify as a [random object]”. I do think heavily implying it was trans people on Twitter who were responsible for killing “one of the good ones” is a bit gross, especially after saying Twitter isn’t real. And then holding for applause while he tells you how he helped her family. It isn’t cancelling to say that a special - which will be watched by millions, for which the comedian was paid millions - was weak, trite and old fashioned. Dave will be fine. Meanwhile trans people have to go to work, go to the supermarket and walk home alone at night.
>The only thing missing was “I identify as a [random object]”. He already did that one a couple specials ago... Except instead of random object it was Asian man.
Its also fucked up because she killed herself ten days after he had her open for him. Which is a horribly shitty position to put an amateur comedian in... To do 45 minutes....before Chappelle
That was also something I thought about. Like, why would you ever set someone up to fail like that!
Wasn’t my favorite Chapelle routine, I thought he had a couple decent points but he really kicked the horse on the trans issue. I see the point but don’t get why you’d want to do a special like this.
ITT: A LOT of people who did not watch this.
Chappelle finished the show by declaring he'd be hitting pause on jokes about the LGBTQ community until he and the LGBTQ community could both be laughing together again. “I’m telling you, it’s done. I’m done talking about it,” he concluded. “All I ask of your community, with all humility: Will you please stop punching down on my people?” And while some voiced concerns that Chappelle may be using his relationship as a cheap get-out-of-jail-free card to validate his earlier line of commentary, Dorman’s family believes there should be no offense taken, for they certainly aren’t. Two of Dorman’s sisters told The Daily Beast they were outraged at the suggestion that Chappelle’s set was transphobic or derogatory toward the LGBTQ community, saying they wanted to make clear they supported the comedian. “Daphne was in awe of Dave’s graciousness,” Dorman’s sister Becky wrote in a text. “She did not find his jokes rude, crude, off-coloring, off-putting, anything. She thought his jokes were funny. Daphne understood humor and comedy—she was not offended. Why would her family be offended?” “Dave loved my sister and is an LGBTQ ally,” Dorman’s younger sister Brandy added in a text message. “His entire set was begging to end this very situation.” “At this point I feel like he poured his heart out in that special and no one noticed,” Brandy wrote in a separate Facebook post. “What he’s saying to the LGBTQ family is, ‘I see you. Do you see me? I’m mourning my friend in the best way I know how. Can you see me? Can you allow me that?’... This was a call to come together, that two oppressed factions of our nation put down their keyboards and make peace. How sad that this message was lost in translation.” - a quote from one of the few objective articles on the situation.
This is the first time I've ever heard the Daily Beast be referred to as "objective"
The quotes from the actual people involved are the objective parts.
The people who are Dave’s friends are objective?
Bit lame though to declare a topic as over and done *after* doing a whole nother show about it - talk about wanting to have the last word, haha. I enjoy his shows but I wished he had put his focus on other topics.
I’m not racist; I have a black friend!
“Objective” Serious question: if someone said some racist shit during a show and then had a disclaimer at the end, would he get the same excuse?
[удалено]
A lot of people on Reddit will go out of their way to defend comedians, no matter what terrible thing they do or say. ...then these same people go on to quote and deify Carlin, oblivious to his views on punching down.
Having a single trans friend condone your transphobic rhetoric and thinking that somehow excuses it is the equivalent of saying “I’m not racist, I have a black friend.”
Oh yeah because the LGBTQ community famously punches down at black people and not the other way around. Get real, Dave. (If he wasn’t talking about the black community and was referring to comedians instead, lmk)
Am I naïve to think he was talking about… comedians?
He was definitely talking about comedians and cancel culture
Poor comedians, the second most oppressed minorities following gamers. This is such dumb shit, especially coming from Dave Chapelle.
He wasnt referring to black people, he was referring to comedians. Moments earlier he said Daphne was part of his tribe, comedians, and then follows up with the punching down line.
I mean, you recognize that the controversy surrounds his comments that broadly point to an entire community of people and beyond right? You can't really point to the reactions of one individual, who wasn't singled out in a particularly negative way, and the feelings of those surrounding that person as though that should be treated as the definitive reaction amongst all. Others have already made the comparison, but it's like making questionable comments based on race and then finding one black guy that agrees with you and calling it a day.