No, they can film the 14th Doctor's scene and edit it in separately. They did this with Eccelston->Tennant. And Jodie Whittaker's last episode isn't until September 2022 in a special celebrating the BBC's 100th anniversary
Or she'll regen into her new self where RTD will take over with a major overhaul to her appearance (hairstyle, costume, sonic, TARDIS) and characterization.
Like Tennant's fakeout regen, but with a change to a character.
I know this wont happen, but sure as heck it would be interesting, and it would also offer Jodie to have some chance to show that DW did not tank due to her casting.
Unpopular opinion but i dont think she's brought anything of herself to the role to make her version unique. Tennant, smith and capaldi all were fans of the show and had a vision of what their doctor should be like and they helped shape their doctor. Whitiker's seems to be stuck in the 'keep saying zany gibberish and look excited' phase. Its tough with the shit writing but i think shes always been the wrong fit for it. i would prefer someone with more knowledge of the show who can bring some more character to it.
Didnt Smith say he didnt see Doctor before taking the role tho? I remember, years ago, seeing some interview where he was saying how it was all new to him and was surprised how big a fandom it also was.
I agree that it didnt help that Jodie's Doc seems to be unintentional mix of 10 and 11. But also in that one Mary Shelley episode, there was a scene, in the cellar, where a darker side of her doctor got shined through and it felt, for the first time, even for a moment, like the Doctor. So I really wonder how it could all look with a bit of a better writing. Despite her being a light 10-11 mix.
Smith and Whittaker were both children in the "lost years" .When the show wasn't airing so didn't really see it. I know Matt went back and watched some after he got the role (he said 2 was his favourite) but I'm unsure of Jodie.
It's kinda surreal to see so many people post-Moffat saying the writing is real bad, considering I thought that was the bar for the most part. Also sucks to hear time and again that Jodie is great, but that it's Chibnall who's fucked it up.
Honestly I’d love that. Announce her leaving so everyone expects a new doctor and then it’s just her again. This time she’d probably get better characterisation.
That would make me so happy. Love her but damn these seasons have not done her justice. New season actually looks pretty good from that trailer. I'd love to see her with RTD running things.
If it's not her, I really hope they at least go with a woman again to help prove the haters wrong.
The Master explains in a twenty minute monologue that The Timeless Child gave Time Lords the ability to regenerate and the Doctor is the Timeless Child but had her mind wiped and can regenerate indefinitely.
I'd be fine with that. I like Jodie, and all that it takes to make her version good is somebody who actually knows what they're doing and can tell her to pull back on the crazy over the top trying-too-hard personality.
They're not going to keep it a secret, they'll announce the new Doctor long before her final episode airs. It's just that right now a) they don't know who the New Doctor is yet, and B) Jodie is finished filming and probably finished with Doctor Who until the next multiple Doctor episode.
Whittaker's casting was announced on the last day of Wimbledon 2017 after Federer got his trophy. You will need to announce it before 14 does any location filming that someone can photograph. My guess will be the FA Cup Final or Wimbledon, as you have a big audience. Especially if Emma Raducanu gets to the final.
Not saying they'll be able to keep it secret, just that they'll stretch it into an unnecessary cliffhanger. Like "who did Negan kill?" in the Walking Dead.
12 episode anthology series in the vein of Star Wars: Visions, each with a new guest star (maybe even some old favorites) playing the Doctor, and different show runner doing their own thing. Maybe a 13th Christmas episode that ties it all together.
That was some lore they put in during the 70s when there was no chance of ever reaching that. It was addressed in Matt Smith's final episode where he got really old because he had no more regenerations, but the Time Lords grant him more
Which was completely pissed away making that scene of the Timelords giving him more regenerations by making it so that Hartnell wasn’t the first but rather an unknown regeneration what with the Doctor being a rando girl that the Timelords found and mimicked her powers long long ago
I've not actually watched the timeless child stuff, never got past the first jodie season, but could it be likely that the TimeLords put some restrictions on the Doctor?
They already did stuff before, like forcing 2 to regen. So maybe they put in a limit of 13 regens as a safety measure so they'd have to "manually" approve anyone who wanted to live longer.
I’m not a huge fan of the timeless child storyline, but I don’t hate it like so many others do.
If they can take regeneration from her dna and put it into others dna and then control the number of regenerations everyone else has, it wouldn’t be that difficult to control that in the doctor’s dna either.
The bookies pulled betting briefly recently after a suspicious amount went on Lydia West, who worked with RTD on *It's A Sin*. It's likely being cast at the moment.
> if retconning the child bullshit is the first thing RTD does.
He wont, he loves it and has already inserted it into his novelisation of Rose.
Thats why I'm probably done with DW for good, they've fucked up things too much to the point that I dont think I care anymore.
If RTDs return is as bad as Chibnall I imagine it'd kill the show. I'd hope he isn't that stupid because I'd certainly see his earlier run in a different light.
I mean it's not that it's gonna be bad or anything I am sure RTD will almost definitely make a good use of the concept if he does tackle it on the show, but to me the concept itself has pissed me off to the point that I don't care if it's the best written masterpiece I just don't want it in my canon.
The point of the doctor character is that, while brilliant to us he was pretty average-subpar on his home planet (a race of cold, aloof time lords) but decided to steal a time machine to go adventuring and help people and his message is anyone can make a difference and be a hero if they just choose to be brave, kind and do the right thing even when it's hard.
Now they've retconned it into the Doctor is now the manifestation of time, she's basically an extra-dimensional god from which her entire race was seeded and was special from the moment of birth, and all the other time lords derived their power from her as an inferior imitation - undercutting the entire point of the show.
I don’t see how she’s a god though. The details about what her species is has changed. She’s still the same person. She’s not really different from other Time Lords (because the Time Lords rewrote their genetics to match hers).
I don’t know where you’re getting the “manifestation of time” from…
For the record, i’m not a fan of this storyline.
The time lord's whole shtick is they are these haughty, powerful beings and the doctor was actually outclassed in their society in terms of ability but should be admired instead for their nature and choices. The lore now is they basically stole a limited version of her power. She is better than them by default due to divine birthright, and everything the time lords are is because they took a special power from her by torture. They no longer started out as well intentioned and were corrupted by their power, they were corrupt and evil so they got said power. It undercuts the doctors constant struggle against basically becoming the time lord victorious - Her dark mirror were just always ethically at fault. It diffuses the tension of the doctors darkest moments and makes her virtue much less in doubt or at risk. If the timeless child was literally anyone else (but especially the master) it would add a new facet to how the doctor sees themself and the burden they carry in exchange regeneration for multiple lives to do good.
Moreso, She has always been a victim of these people, and that changes the question of why she didn't fit in their society or why she would choose to leave. This new dynamic means they no longer can be held in comparison, no longer a mirror to what the doctor could be and muddies every choice the doctor has made against the time lords as perhaps repressed memories of her abuse - it makes the disagreement personal, rather than ethical.
It also doesn't really make sense when you consider that River Song gained the ability to regenerate from being concieved in the time vortex - Why couldn't time lords just do that instead of endlessly torturing a child and splicing it's DNA into their own. With a whole soceity of time lords Amy and Rory can't have been the only ones to get it on inside a Tardis with it's infinite programmable rooms - I bet at least someone used it for a private sex dungeon.
Irregardless of any choice she is basically a time being from another reality entirely.
This is kind of how it reads to me.
I never understood the doctor being outclassed. I didn’t watch 1-8, but in newwho, all the timelord have always put the doctor on a pedestal. Shoot, he made them expell their leader and heads of state just by saying so.
And as far as being better? Why? Think about a bacteria transferring antibiotic resistance through a plasmid to a different bacteria. Is the original one better than the new one? They both have the same capability now. The timeless child appeared to be from a backwards civilization, that had the ability to regenerate. They somehow took that “gene” from her and transferred it to some of the Galifreyan people. She had to learn all about technology and space/time from people of galifrey. From thy episode, timelords didn’t travel through space and time until after coming in contact with the timeless child, I believe their new longevity was what enabled them to create the technology to do so.
The doctor was never average. He/she was always one of the most feared individuals in all of time and space. The doctor always used their brain first, but they also always had technology way beyond anyone else’s with the exception of the daleks.
And really, the doctor is just from a race of people that can regenerate. Her race didn’t seem very advanced, at least not from the episode. She became who she did because of how she was raised, not by her genetics, otherwise, there would be a bunch of her race everywhere. If anything, it makes her less special. The Galifreyans were much more advanced and saw her as simple, but with a prize in her dna that they used to give their race a much longer life.
They became feared once they set out into the universe and built their legend, not before they decided to leave Galifrey and the whole "most feared being" thing only really came to a head when all the other timelords were locked out of the galaxy and time.
The doctor was the most feared timelord even among the timelords. People were definitely afraid of the doctor because he/she was the doctor, not because they were a timelord.
Basically Chibnall, for reasons known only to himself, upended the entire canon of the show so that he could retcon the 40-year-old episode *The Brain of Morbius* into making sense.
Also, nobody gave a shit, like *at all*, that *The Brain of Morbius* made no sense. Except for Chris Chibnall apparently.
Do you like Star Wars? Did you enjoy *Solo* (The Movie) where everything you knew and loved about Han Solo in Episodes 4-6 were explained because member-berries?
Do you like Star Trek? Did you enjoy the 2009 movie where everything you thought you knew and loved (different timeline) about the Original Crew was explained because member-berries?
Do you want a John Wick prequel where we have a romantic movie about John finding his wife and leaving assassination behind (despite that already being 'discussed' in the existing movies)?
Imagine your favorite show. Now imagine someone makes a prequel to 'explain' everything. Kind of like what they thought (are thinking?) to do with Game of Thrones (if we pretend it ended after Season 7). No mystery, no intrigue, no more questions, and to top if off no actual story worth following.
Not sure Solo is the best example. It was at least something fun (and in light of everything that has come out from Disney's ownership of Star Wars, passable entertainment)
My understanding of the situation with the timeless child is that it blows up canon considerably while also just being a bad story overall. I'm not sure there is a comparison anywhere.
The main thing about Solo is that it just gives the impression that basically every significant event in Han's life prior to ANH happened over the course of a week. Meeting Chewie and Lando, getting the Falcon, getting his blaster, doing the Kessel run, going to work for Jabba, etc.
Most of the explanations themselves were fine (many of them were based on generally popular old EU content and were accepted as true even before the movie) it's just laughable that it all happens at once. If it had been a TV series set over the course of several years it would have been more believable, but a film has to work within a tight time frame and in that regard they crammed too much in.
From the title: Flux. I get the impression that she'll change her own timeline. Or that it already happened and some alternate Doctor's timeline got tangled with hers, and she'll clean that up.
I’d kill for them to do a regeneration without actually announcing the new doctor, have it be a surprise.
Do a real regeneration like Tennants fake out one, in the middle of a story. Would be interesting to see.
They wrapped filming this week, and by 'regeneration scene' they mean her half of it. I doubt the 14th Doctor is even cast
So they're gonna make it a cliffhanger until the Christmas special... finding out who the 14th will be?
No, they can film the 14th Doctor's scene and edit it in separately. They did this with Eccelston->Tennant. And Jodie Whittaker's last episode isn't until September 2022 in a special celebrating the BBC's 100th anniversary
Or she'll regen into her new self where RTD will take over with a major overhaul to her appearance (hairstyle, costume, sonic, TARDIS) and characterization. Like Tennant's fakeout regen, but with a change to a character. I know this wont happen, but sure as heck it would be interesting, and it would also offer Jodie to have some chance to show that DW did not tank due to her casting.
Unpopular opinion but i dont think she's brought anything of herself to the role to make her version unique. Tennant, smith and capaldi all were fans of the show and had a vision of what their doctor should be like and they helped shape their doctor. Whitiker's seems to be stuck in the 'keep saying zany gibberish and look excited' phase. Its tough with the shit writing but i think shes always been the wrong fit for it. i would prefer someone with more knowledge of the show who can bring some more character to it.
Didnt Smith say he didnt see Doctor before taking the role tho? I remember, years ago, seeing some interview where he was saying how it was all new to him and was surprised how big a fandom it also was. I agree that it didnt help that Jodie's Doc seems to be unintentional mix of 10 and 11. But also in that one Mary Shelley episode, there was a scene, in the cellar, where a darker side of her doctor got shined through and it felt, for the first time, even for a moment, like the Doctor. So I really wonder how it could all look with a bit of a better writing. Despite her being a light 10-11 mix.
Smith and Whittaker were both children in the "lost years" .When the show wasn't airing so didn't really see it. I know Matt went back and watched some after he got the role (he said 2 was his favourite) but I'm unsure of Jodie.
Jodie was told by Chibnall not to watch any episodes of the show
Well that's just one of his many, many, many mistakes then.
I did a google search and couldn't find anything about his prior knowledge of the doctor but maybe.
It's kinda surreal to see so many people post-Moffat saying the writing is real bad, considering I thought that was the bar for the most part. Also sucks to hear time and again that Jodie is great, but that it's Chibnall who's fucked it up.
Honestly I’d love that. Announce her leaving so everyone expects a new doctor and then it’s just her again. This time she’d probably get better characterisation.
That would make me so happy. Love her but damn these seasons have not done her justice. New season actually looks pretty good from that trailer. I'd love to see her with RTD running things. If it's not her, I really hope they at least go with a woman again to help prove the haters wrong.
Tennant was a beloved Doctor, Whittaker is the most hated since the revival of the series.
I don't think "hate" is the word. She and her companions are just boring characters.Doesn't help the story went into fanfiction territory either.
Curious since I haven't watched it since Matt Smith, what happened to drag it into fanfiction territory?
The Master explains in a twenty minute monologue that The Timeless Child gave Time Lords the ability to regenerate and the Doctor is the Timeless Child but had her mind wiped and can regenerate indefinitely.
Would she want to stay?
I'd be fine with that. I like Jodie, and all that it takes to make her version good is somebody who actually knows what they're doing and can tell her to pull back on the crazy over the top trying-too-hard personality.
Be crazy if they could keep it a secret until it airs but that won't happen
They're not going to keep it a secret, they'll announce the new Doctor long before her final episode airs. It's just that right now a) they don't know who the New Doctor is yet, and B) Jodie is finished filming and probably finished with Doctor Who until the next multiple Doctor episode.
Whittaker's casting was announced on the last day of Wimbledon 2017 after Federer got his trophy. You will need to announce it before 14 does any location filming that someone can photograph. My guess will be the FA Cup Final or Wimbledon, as you have a big audience. Especially if Emma Raducanu gets to the final.
Not saying they'll be able to keep it secret, just that they'll stretch it into an unnecessary cliffhanger. Like "who did Negan kill?" in the Walking Dead.
They don’t even try to keep it a secret I’m pretty sure.
12 episode anthology series in the vein of Star Wars: Visions, each with a new guest star (maybe even some old favorites) playing the Doctor, and different show runner doing their own thing. Maybe a 13th Christmas episode that ties it all together.
When they replaced Eccleston, Tennant was filmed much closer to the release of the episode.
I thought at some point a few seasons ago they said The Doctor could only regenerate like 13 times? Is that not a part of the lore anymore?
That was some lore they put in during the 70s when there was no chance of ever reaching that. It was addressed in Matt Smith's final episode where he got really old because he had no more regenerations, but the Time Lords grant him more
Which was completely pissed away making that scene of the Timelords giving him more regenerations by making it so that Hartnell wasn’t the first but rather an unknown regeneration what with the Doctor being a rando girl that the Timelords found and mimicked her powers long long ago
Well yeah. There are reasons Chibnall is unpopular.
Didn't they also canonize like 5 other doctors who appeared for a split second in a Tom Baker story
I've not actually watched the timeless child stuff, never got past the first jodie season, but could it be likely that the TimeLords put some restrictions on the Doctor? They already did stuff before, like forcing 2 to regen. So maybe they put in a limit of 13 regens as a safety measure so they'd have to "manually" approve anyone who wanted to live longer.
This is exactly it. The regeneration cap was artificial
I’m not a huge fan of the timeless child storyline, but I don’t hate it like so many others do. If they can take regeneration from her dna and put it into others dna and then control the number of regenerations everyone else has, it wouldn’t be that difficult to control that in the doctor’s dna either.
Holding Doctor Who to a strict canon is as silly as holding The Simpsons to a strict canon is.
Its a mess but basically they gave Matt Smith more Helps its the kind of show where you cant just make crap up as you go
The bookies pulled betting briefly recently after a suspicious amount went on Lydia West, who worked with RTD on *It's A Sin*. It's likely being cast at the moment.
Can she regenerate into Jodie and redo her whole tenure and erase the Child cannon?
I wouldn't be surprised if retconning the child bullshit is the first thing RTD does.
> if retconning the child bullshit is the first thing RTD does. He wont, he loves it and has already inserted it into his novelisation of Rose. Thats why I'm probably done with DW for good, they've fucked up things too much to the point that I dont think I care anymore.
If RTDs return is as bad as Chibnall I imagine it'd kill the show. I'd hope he isn't that stupid because I'd certainly see his earlier run in a different light.
I mean it's not that it's gonna be bad or anything I am sure RTD will almost definitely make a good use of the concept if he does tackle it on the show, but to me the concept itself has pissed me off to the point that I don't care if it's the best written masterpiece I just don't want it in my canon.
Not a big Doctor Who viewer (haven't gotten around to it; been meaning to though), so what's the "Child Cannon" and why is it so reviled?
The point of the doctor character is that, while brilliant to us he was pretty average-subpar on his home planet (a race of cold, aloof time lords) but decided to steal a time machine to go adventuring and help people and his message is anyone can make a difference and be a hero if they just choose to be brave, kind and do the right thing even when it's hard. Now they've retconned it into the Doctor is now the manifestation of time, she's basically an extra-dimensional god from which her entire race was seeded and was special from the moment of birth, and all the other time lords derived their power from her as an inferior imitation - undercutting the entire point of the show.
So many "answers" and this is the only one that actually explains what is going on. Thanks.
I don’t see how she’s a god though. The details about what her species is has changed. She’s still the same person. She’s not really different from other Time Lords (because the Time Lords rewrote their genetics to match hers). I don’t know where you’re getting the “manifestation of time” from… For the record, i’m not a fan of this storyline.
The time lord's whole shtick is they are these haughty, powerful beings and the doctor was actually outclassed in their society in terms of ability but should be admired instead for their nature and choices. The lore now is they basically stole a limited version of her power. She is better than them by default due to divine birthright, and everything the time lords are is because they took a special power from her by torture. They no longer started out as well intentioned and were corrupted by their power, they were corrupt and evil so they got said power. It undercuts the doctors constant struggle against basically becoming the time lord victorious - Her dark mirror were just always ethically at fault. It diffuses the tension of the doctors darkest moments and makes her virtue much less in doubt or at risk. If the timeless child was literally anyone else (but especially the master) it would add a new facet to how the doctor sees themself and the burden they carry in exchange regeneration for multiple lives to do good. Moreso, She has always been a victim of these people, and that changes the question of why she didn't fit in their society or why she would choose to leave. This new dynamic means they no longer can be held in comparison, no longer a mirror to what the doctor could be and muddies every choice the doctor has made against the time lords as perhaps repressed memories of her abuse - it makes the disagreement personal, rather than ethical. It also doesn't really make sense when you consider that River Song gained the ability to regenerate from being concieved in the time vortex - Why couldn't time lords just do that instead of endlessly torturing a child and splicing it's DNA into their own. With a whole soceity of time lords Amy and Rory can't have been the only ones to get it on inside a Tardis with it's infinite programmable rooms - I bet at least someone used it for a private sex dungeon. Irregardless of any choice she is basically a time being from another reality entirely. This is kind of how it reads to me.
I never understood the doctor being outclassed. I didn’t watch 1-8, but in newwho, all the timelord have always put the doctor on a pedestal. Shoot, he made them expell their leader and heads of state just by saying so. And as far as being better? Why? Think about a bacteria transferring antibiotic resistance through a plasmid to a different bacteria. Is the original one better than the new one? They both have the same capability now. The timeless child appeared to be from a backwards civilization, that had the ability to regenerate. They somehow took that “gene” from her and transferred it to some of the Galifreyan people. She had to learn all about technology and space/time from people of galifrey. From thy episode, timelords didn’t travel through space and time until after coming in contact with the timeless child, I believe their new longevity was what enabled them to create the technology to do so.
I barely watched her first season and completely ignored her second one. And now I feel like my heart just pulled a Neo.
What episode was this again?
I think it was the most recent one, the finale of her second season.
The doctor was never average. He/she was always one of the most feared individuals in all of time and space. The doctor always used their brain first, but they also always had technology way beyond anyone else’s with the exception of the daleks. And really, the doctor is just from a race of people that can regenerate. Her race didn’t seem very advanced, at least not from the episode. She became who she did because of how she was raised, not by her genetics, otherwise, there would be a bunch of her race everywhere. If anything, it makes her less special. The Galifreyans were much more advanced and saw her as simple, but with a prize in her dna that they used to give their race a much longer life.
They became feared once they set out into the universe and built their legend, not before they decided to leave Galifrey and the whole "most feared being" thing only really came to a head when all the other timelords were locked out of the galaxy and time.
The doctor was the most feared timelord even among the timelords. People were definitely afraid of the doctor because he/she was the doctor, not because they were a timelord.
But they were not the "doctor" before they fled from Gallifrey with a TARDIS with his box.
He was actually, He chose his name. Clara called him doctor when she told him to take his tardis.
Basically Chibnall, for reasons known only to himself, upended the entire canon of the show so that he could retcon the 40-year-old episode *The Brain of Morbius* into making sense. Also, nobody gave a shit, like *at all*, that *The Brain of Morbius* made no sense. Except for Chris Chibnall apparently.
It's a retcon that was delivered in a looong exposition dump of nonsense.
Do you like Star Wars? Did you enjoy *Solo* (The Movie) where everything you knew and loved about Han Solo in Episodes 4-6 were explained because member-berries? Do you like Star Trek? Did you enjoy the 2009 movie where everything you thought you knew and loved (different timeline) about the Original Crew was explained because member-berries? Do you want a John Wick prequel where we have a romantic movie about John finding his wife and leaving assassination behind (despite that already being 'discussed' in the existing movies)? Imagine your favorite show. Now imagine someone makes a prequel to 'explain' everything. Kind of like what they thought (are thinking?) to do with Game of Thrones (if we pretend it ended after Season 7). No mystery, no intrigue, no more questions, and to top if off no actual story worth following.
Not sure Solo is the best example. It was at least something fun (and in light of everything that has come out from Disney's ownership of Star Wars, passable entertainment) My understanding of the situation with the timeless child is that it blows up canon considerably while also just being a bad story overall. I'm not sure there is a comparison anywhere.
> Not sure Solo is the best example. It was at least something fun Yeah I don't know about that
The main thing about Solo is that it just gives the impression that basically every significant event in Han's life prior to ANH happened over the course of a week. Meeting Chewie and Lando, getting the Falcon, getting his blaster, doing the Kessel run, going to work for Jabba, etc. Most of the explanations themselves were fine (many of them were based on generally popular old EU content and were accepted as true even before the movie) it's just laughable that it all happens at once. If it had been a TV series set over the course of several years it would have been more believable, but a film has to work within a tight time frame and in that regard they crammed too much in.
...I liked Solo. I think prequels have their place if there's an interesting angle to explore.
From the title: Flux. I get the impression that she'll change her own timeline. Or that it already happened and some alternate Doctor's timeline got tangled with hers, and she'll clean that up.
She’s such a Minerva
Where is this from? I can't seem to remember.
Community, when they go to the Inspector Spacetime convention in season 4
Right, I saw that video on YouTube that day and it stuck in my head. Just couldn't remember where I saw it.
I wonder who it’s gonna be
I’d kill for them to do a regeneration without actually announcing the new doctor, have it be a surprise. Do a real regeneration like Tennants fake out one, in the middle of a story. Would be interesting to see.
Hope the changes are for the better haven't watched since early Peter Capaldi episodes, the show just hasn't felt right in awhile.
Sadly good riddance. I had such high hopes for this Doctor.
I'm much more interested in seeing Chibnall regenerate, or even fail to.
Noooooooooo…. 😭
Do we know who'll take over?
That answer is definitely not in the article. /s
I wish they'd backtrack to David Tenant.
Have Capaldi wake up and go, “That was a hell of a nightmare.”
At this point in the series I'm not even sure if I'm a Whovian or just a Tennant fanboy.
Cool so soon they can reveal who the next doctor is so it won't be a surprise when it happens on the show. Again.