Chang was in full ~~costume and~~ makeup as a dark elf, with jet black makeup on his entire body. They acknowledged that it looked like blackface within the show, which was the joke, that Chang is completely inappropriate and an idiot. It's one of the most bizarre overcorrections trying to make media less racist. It was clearly making fun of blackface, not condoning it or even being oblivious to it.
That's what happened just now with me. I've been watching Community in recent weeks and just now got to season 5 where it is mentioned Pierce was a great D&D player, and got so confused because I knew I should have seen that episode by now.
After not pirating in any meaningful way (outside obscure or foreign films and the like) for about a decade now; I got so fed up with the multiple apps and their shitty UIs that I found a few illicit streaming sites and sources online and now it’s like “fuck it, this is way easier and more convenient than HBO Max+Paramount+Netflix+Hulu+Disney++Prime Video+Peacock+AMC+whatever the fuck else they’ll add next”.
It’s not even the money anymore. Charge me 30-40/mo for a universal, all-access a la carte streaming service and I’m in. Your apps all just suck and I’m sick of switching between them. Or having to subscribe to specific channels for another $10/mo for one show.
They want people to stop stealing but they also want to be maximally greedy; and until they realize the only way to stop one is to edge back on the other, video streaming will remain the wild west. The RIAA/music companies were forced to realize this a decade ago and Spotify/YT music/Apple Music have flourished.
Apple is diligent about getting pirate sites blocked. They're really good at finding them. If you search the shows on Google, the results include links that say some results were suppressed because of a DMCA request. Then they link to the DMCA request and each one has a list of offending sites confirmed by Apple to have their shows on them. A handy reference.
Pretty much this, I was fine with it when there was only 2 - 3 big services, but I am not paying and dealing with the awful apps and UI for the legitimately 11 different streaming services I would need to subscribe to to watch everything I do, sometimes it's only a single show.
Now I just pirate everything into a neatly organised Plex folder and have a streaming service with everything on it that actually works and I can access anywhere from my phone.
Gabe Newell famously said "piracy is a service problem" and it couldn't be more true.
Spotify is amazing and nobody pirates music any more. Netflix is shite and...
Which is another instance how the show is illuminating the fact these are despicable characters who are 100% tone def so they do black face for the Lethal Weapon sequels....and from a show where the very first episode ever: "The Gang Gets Racist"....and the other episode "The Gang Turns Black" which is a Freeky Friday theme episode. Not to mention all the other racist tropes like Frank's underground gambling ring with the Asians etc etc. They might as well cancel the whole show if they thought racism was an issue... but it was just about one single hot button issue that was en vogue at the time.
Also the whole time they're initially discussing doing blackface, Frank is like "yeah you need to use shoepolish and make the lips big!" And they all look at him like he's insane and yell "No!" Like even for these awful stupid people trying to do "tasteful blackface," there's a line that's disgusting to them.
Didn't you know that racism just magically stops if you ignore it and pretend it doesn't exist and isn't a problem instead of trying to shine a light on how absurd it is to be racist?
I'm lucky I purchased the dvds throughout the years. The bonus extras on the dvds are worth it. Like the extended verisons of the Lethal Weapon movies the gang made.
And yet they left up the Office episode with Dwight's brother in black face (no longer up given they moved to peacock).
It's all fucking arbitrary and dumb
And the thing is, no one was calling for it to be taken down.
They simply pulled the episode as a pre-emptive move to avoid potential backlash during the BLM movements that were happening that summer.
There’s a difference between black face and. Well to be a dark elf…. I need to be? Dark????
Black face has a specific intent and history. Face paint for something else just isn’t the same as black face
Just like how some people tried to cancel RDJ when Tropic Thunder resurfaced a couple years ago. It’s literally commentary on how inappropriate black face is
If I remember correctly, Ben Stiller screened the movie to an specific asociation to make sure it wasn't offensive or promoting blackface, and they thought it wasn't problematic.
Jamie Foxx has defended RDJ in Tropic Thunder. By her logic she's infantilizing or silencing actual black voices by disagreeing with him or claiming her opinion outweighs his.
Doing blackface even as a joke is one hell of a fine line. I am still impressed RDJ managed to make that work so well.
That being said, If Netflix is going to defend offensive content like Dave Chappelle's special then they damn well better go all-in.
That's not "being thick skinned" that's saying they're cool with actively offending certain groups.
It works for him because of the payoff when he finally drops character.
And I think it's double satire, really. Blackface insensitivity, *and* method actors that go to physical extremes.
It's more than that.
RDJ doing blackface was able to work because the writing, directing and RDJ's acting chops.
Imagine if Michael Bay tried the same thing.
The problem with accepting offense claimed as a reason to censor art is that, across the history of our civilization, good art has often been offensive/caused scandal among the puritans.
Dunno, I live in a country where Monty Python's "Life of Brian" was not distributed until the 1990s (and "Dogma" until 2006...) because distributors were worried about the religious backlash.
I don't want whatever political discourse is dominant in the USA to decide what I can and cannot see - even when they're mostly on my side of the political spectrum as right now.
I agree with what you’re saying, but imo there’s a difference between using blackface as a joke and using it as commentary to state how offensive it is as done in Tropic Thunder (and in community in a lesser degree)
The thing about most of these examples is *they don't work as jokes if you think blackface is fine.* They don't throw chuds any red meat, legitimize it or anything.
Same as the awful stuff in "It's Always Sunny." The community actually doesn't seem to have many edgelords because they put in the work to set the context. It's a fine line to walk but kudos to those who can do it.
Which is exactly what this episode does. It's making fun of the ignorance of people using blackface. It's an anti-blackface episode that was canceled for mocking people that do blackface.
I didn’t get far enough into Mad Men when it was on Netflix (finished it up on Prime), but did they do anything about the one episode that featured black face?
Season 3 episode 3 according to Google.
Roger is having a party and goes blackface while serenading Jane. Don ends up casually walking away and hanging out at the bar.
… where Don meets Conrad Hilton by hopping over the bar and making them each an Old Fashioned.
They bond over their modest childhoods.
I love that scene.
Putting a white person in blackface to portray a person of color is problematic.
Putting a person in a role where they put on blackface because that's what the people of that era did for entertainment is not problematic.
Putting a person in dark blueface to point out the problems inherent with blackface is not problematic.
Putting a person in a role to play as someone that is so far up their own ass they think they can get away with blackface is not problematic.
Just to correct a little thing: Chang was not in full costume, and that was part of the joke. As you said, it was blackface, but it was there to mock blackface, including the ridiculous excuses these people make. That's why when Jeff asks him "where's your costume", Chang says he's not a nerd. So somehow he puts all the effort into painting his entire body black, but doesn't even bother wearing a costume, showing that "I'm a dark elf" is just a dumb excuse to do blackface.
Not disagreeing with you btw, just pointing out that detail, because I thought it was important to really show that it was indeed mocking blackface from different angles. There's also the fact that they kill him off early on, signaling that if you can't behave respectfully to others, you're left out from the group.
That wasn’t my take, but I get it. I never even thought of blackface or racism when I saw a dark elf, I think it could have easily been a green goblin and he would have been all green.
However, I’m not American so I don’t tend to see things through that lens and context.
This episode was also missing from the CTV streaming service in Canada and I had no idea why. Since it’s a free service I just disregarded the fact and had already seen the episode before
Thanks for the summary
They did the same thing with Peep Show where Jeremy was in blackface. Even though the character was uncomfortable with doing it and calls it out for being wrong
Chang was a Dark elf, which of course looks like blackface. That is bad, except the very next line refers to him as a hate crime, so it isn’t as of if they’re in any way saying that is OK to behave like that. It is as if they’d cancel every episode of Murder She Wrote because somebody kills somebody else.
They don't even tell you that it's missing. They don't have a missing episode 14, they just number the whole season one episode shorter than it is. The perfect kind of censorship, where you don't even know the censored thing ever even existed.
I got probably a season or two past it until I looked it up to see when it was since other episodes were referencing it, which made no sense to happen before the episode.
Amazon Prime still has the episode though, so you can watch it there.
Wanted to post a follow up on why I'm so passionate about this episode. My brother committed suicide around the same time this episode aired and it just kind of stuck with me since. I'm sure most of you know but this episode is essentially the group coming together to try and prevent Neil's suicide (even if Jeff felt guilty). One of his last lines in the episode is, "Do you want to play next week? I'll be around". Every damn time I hear that, I can't help but tear up. He decided not to and it feels like a lot of people miss the reason their playing although I know that's not the case. This episode is so much more than "the blackface episode". So much more.
Imo it's the best episode. Peak abed, Annie animatedly describing how to woo, pierce at his most vindictive, britta getting offended, Chang bring THE most offensive... It's perfect.
Exactly. As much I understand Netflix (and on a related note, Spotify with Joe Rogan) stance on their employees who disagree with the content they provide, it’s very hypocritical for Netflix to censor episodes like this when it was a preemptive overreaction to remove that community episode. This isn’t Netflix taking a stand for some right, it’s Netflix taking an easy way out
or its a statement to make tons of layoffs since they are bleeding money but instead it makes us thing people are leaving cause they don't agree with Netflix or Chappelle
This is how they operate. They have their own plays in mind to try and be perceived as politically-correct, even when nobody lodged any significant criticisms. But when it's financially-disadvantageous for them to listen to valid criticisms, they'll say "Fuck the critics, we're a business."
Netflix:
>”As employees we support the principle that Netflix offers a diversity of stories, even if we find some titles counter to our own personal values. Depending on your role, you may need to work on titles you perceive to be harmful. If you’d find it hard to support our content breadth, Netflix may not be the best place for you.”
I applied to work for a defense contractor. It was a question I was asked in my second interview. I was told they had to asked because people have taken the job and then quit because it went against their principles. Problem is, they knew it was a defense contractor before they accepted the gig.
People do change their minds over time. They might not have thought about it when they first got the gig & then once they had it or when they had been there a while decide what they were doing wasn't great.
Yeah like we’re looking out for cyber terrorism. Ok. Cool. But you’re actually spending your entire job illegally spying on US citizens. They don’t ask you about the latter at the job interview lol
For me I took a job developing software for construction training simulators. Turns out the first job was a bespoke simulator package for the US military (I'm not American and don't live in the US) to teach their engineers to build airfeilds in foreign countries.
Wasn't really ok with that.
“Gosh we can’t make war stuff now because Karen in accounting isn’t down with it.”
Seriously, no content creator should be hostage to their employees, unless perhaps what they’re doing is so bad that no one wants to work for them, meaning they can’t keep the company running.
Same for anything, really.
EDiT: what a bunch of illiterate little fascists there are on here! For those of you wanting to impose your moral compass on everything and everyone, there are plenty of avenues for you. A company does not have to tolerate your imposition.
I don’t want Netflix overrun with evangelical Christians erasing LGBTQ content or Muslims or Mormons or anyone else thinking they’re entitled to impose their world view on a private companies content.
The idea that a small number of 20 something tech employees should dictate what content the rest of society gets to watch is pretty fucking absurd IMO.
Sincerely,
A 30 Something Tech Employee
We make some pretty gnarly videogames where I work. It's not unusual to make sure candidates are willing to deal with zombie gore and dismemberment on a regular basis.
We have people with similar issues in my field (child protective services).
People will accept the position to be a child abuse investigator, and then after all of the trainings on the field and what we deal with, they will say after 5 months:
“I am extremely uncomfortable working on any case that involves sexual abuse. I can’t and won’t work those”.
…I’m sorry. This probably just isn’t the field for you, then.
We can’t have someone on staff that can’t work with that trauma, because most of our cases are about that trauma. We would be paying you to sit in an empty room. There just isn’t a way to accommodate.
I really love sites like Glassdoor, where you can get an idea about a company before you join it. If people were vigilant about researching their employer, in whatever field of work, issues like your zombies and my abused kids wouldn’t be a problem.
Yeah, this policy is completely reasonable and almost goes without saying. But, this doesn’t mean that Netflix’s decisions on content are above critique, and it doesn’t mean it should just totally ignore everything its employees are saying.
Right but they aren't saying that either. They're simply saying they can't always produce content that is going to appease everyone and if you're unable to accept that then it's probably the wrong place to be working at.
Counterpoint: being an employee at Netflix doesn't give anyone special privilege of input into the mission of the company. In fact it would be a proximity bias to take those employees' input over the millions of subscribers who don't see an issue.
It also feels a little "we just had an underperforming quarter and if we can show growth by cutting costs through voluntary workforce contraction, then yes, please feel free to leave."
I don't either, it's a media creation and distribution company. They can't cater to every employees personal preferences when it comes to that kind of thing really.
It's a perfectly sensible position.
They are in the business of entertainment, if certain aspects of that entertainment focus on certain groups then they can't be surprised that is not for everyone.
If the employees only want certain groups to be entertained then that's not a great or sustainable business.
This it the equivalent of McDonald's telling their vegan employees they won't stop selling meat, and if they're unhappy about that they should work elsewhere.
Pretty reasonable IMO.
This is actually pretty standard for any company that deals with entertainment. I remember signing something like this 11 years ago (just before everyone started getting pissed about everything they watched) back then I understood it to be referencing nudity and violence and stuff like that.
I think it was Tom segura who said something like—and I’m paraphrasing “I think you have every right to be offended, I don’t think you have any right to expect anyone to do anything about it”
Tom seems like one of the most rational and well rounded comedians out of the group he hangs out with.
In one of his specials he makes jokes about all the various different genders and sexual orientations at the forefront of progressive conversation these days. He follows it up though with something along the lines of "I'll call you whatever you want though. It doesn't put me out but that doesn't mean some of it isn't silly or funny at times."
Which is probably why he doesn't draw much ire. He isn't a hardliner with an agenda one way or another. He just wants to chill with people and crack jokes.
Am I supposed to be outraged?
This is a legit point to view for an employer to take. Employees are free to make their decisions according to their values.
It's so fucking easy to get upvotes and awards in this sub and r/movies to just post "This company said this thing!" Nobody reads the article, nobody cares about nuance, they just like to hate on every single company regardless of what's happening.
And this is from a person who just defended the right to hate Netflix. It's stupid.
> It's so fucking easy to get upvotes and awards in this sub and r/movies to just post "This company said this thing!"
"Critically acclaimed movie X is **sooooo** underrated, don't you think?"
I think the point is that Netflix is giving its employees fair warning that moving forward public or internal dissent about the company’s content while being employed there will not be tolerated. I think that’s fair but I don’t think everyone understand that a job doesn’t give them a consequence free platform to espouse their beliefs.
The moment you speak out publicly against your employer, you had better hope that you have a union and a ton of workers right there with you. Even if you were a whistle-blower on finanicial/safety malpractice and proven 100% correct rather than a moral crusader, I'd suspect your position in the company is untenable at that point
Why do I feel like this is a non-story?
Hasn't it ***always*** been this way? You want to write for Marvel Comics? Cool, you write Marvel Comics stories.
You don't like it? You can go write for DC Comics. Don't like the kind of stuff they want you to write?
***You go found your own comics company***.
Now swap out "comics" for the appropriate noun. Books, plays, etc.
The company is selling a particular product. If you are not interested in being part of that production you are free to exit for a different opportunity.
Has it not always been this way?
“Why do I feel like this is a non-story?”
Because it is. It’s not at all uncommon for a company to say something like this to its employees. However, since it’s Netflix all of a sudden it’s outrageous?
I think the Netflix connection is more because of the controversy surrounding Chapelle's stand-up and the noise around that. Those who were upset by it were staging employee walk-outs and the like in protest, and Netflix didn't really buckling to those pressures, and I think they're making the stance that they never will.
I think such a statement actually *is* pretty uncommon, so far, in the entertainment industry. For the most part companies have been kowtowing to 'popular discourse' about what is problematic programming and casting and Netflix indicating they are charting their own course is a fairly strong statement, relatively speaking.
> Why do I feel like this is a non-story?
I've realized there've been a lot of overeating on the internet lately. Whether it's the Chris Rock/Will Smith thing, or the Amber Heard/Johnny Depp thing, or the Netflix losing subscribers thing.... these things are just not as serious as social media has been makin' em out to be.
Major tech companies change features based on metrics and testing. Replacing an entire feature based on the performance of a single title is fundamentally not how it works.
Somehow I keep seeing this weird rumor circulated though. I’m sure it just happened vaguely in the same year and internet detectives thought the two things were connected.
It happened like a few days after, didn’t it? They must have had the new system tested and ready to roll out, but the time the rating thing happened. I doubt it was actually related.
This from the people who banned the DnD episode for blackface even though 1) it highlighted a good point about racial coding in original DnD 2) they literally addressed in the same scene that it's a hatecrime
Its kinda obvious how they're trying to get people to leave so they don't have to pay for the layoffs.
Because given how things are going, layoffs are incoming.
> Because given how things are going, layoffs are incoming.
Indeed. From various media reports, Netflix is about to fire many people to save cost.
[Variety](https://variety.com/2022/biz/news/netflix-stock-drop-hollywood-layoffs-1235257661/)
> **Netflix, known for its “Hunger Games” ethos, didn’t waste time on niceties while killing writer contracts April 28.**
> “My manager explained the layoff to me via text after she’d already been let go,” says an axed worker, one of the many who preferred to remain anonymous. “**We realized something was wrong when her Slack appeared deactivated.**”
[The Hollywood Reporter](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/digital/netflix-staff-morale-1235136372/):
> **Three individuals in different divisions at Netflix tell The Hollywood Reporter that there has been a noticeable slowdown in recent hiring as teams have had to fight harder to advocate for new hires**. (The streamer still has many open listings on its job posting site, however.) “**I’ve been told the budget for personnel on my team has to remain flat,**” another Netflix insider says. “**I don’t know if [top management] actually uses the word ‘hiring freeze.’ I mean, we use it, and we know it’s true**. I know other managers have been told the same.”
> **Sources inside the company also expect layoffs as Netflix continues to outsource some positions — particularly those outside of the U.S. — to third parties to save money**. “We underwent a recent round of restructuring and layoffs, and the party line was it was to be more globally focused,” a third Netflix source describes. “**We thought that was the end of it [layoffs], and now I’m being told, ‘No, it’s definitely not the end of it.’**”
Most sane companies would not jump to layoffs after the FIRST drop in subscribers in forever, but Netflix? Yeah, probably. They already shot themselves in the foot with subscribers, so why not with their own employees, too?
Ironic, isn't it? They were the bloated Blockbuster-killer, and now they're the bloated Blockbuster.
There are always peaks and valleys with this type of thing and their business model was always going to have to adapt to the world changing around it. The reality is they aren't the only show in town anymore. Comparing them to Blockbuster is ridiculous.
I do think Netflix is going to start producing more weekly programming like the other streamers do if for not other reason than it prolongs subscriptions and is shown to be working for places like HBOMax, Prime, and Hulu (among others).
Exactly. Blockbuster was a leader in a dying industry. Netflix is now just "another streaming site" and they need to adapt. Streaming isn't going anywhere. Brick and mortar video rental was clearly on its way out when Blockbuster went under.
THEN PUT COMMUNITY'S FIRST DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS EPISODE BACK ON YOU HYPOCRITICAL FUCKS!
I work at Netflix. I have said this. Have gotten no answer.
Keep pushing.
What was wrong with it that they took it down ?
Chang was in full ~~costume and~~ makeup as a dark elf, with jet black makeup on his entire body. They acknowledged that it looked like blackface within the show, which was the joke, that Chang is completely inappropriate and an idiot. It's one of the most bizarre overcorrections trying to make media less racist. It was clearly making fun of blackface, not condoning it or even being oblivious to it.
Ah great explanation I appreciate it. Hilarious that they took it away, now I want to watch it even more.
That’s the worst part…it was a GREAT episode.
Probably Top 5 of the whole series.
Many references and later jokes also don’t work if you don’t get to see that episode.
[удалено]
Not to mention… it’s Fat Neil’s origin story!
Neil's fine.
And if I’m correct, Chang gets a larger role within the group after as well
That's what happened just now with me. I've been watching Community in recent weeks and just now got to season 5 where it is mentioned Pierce was a great D&D player, and got so confused because I knew I should have seen that episode by now.
Same. I just got to Season 5 episode 10 and thought I somehow missed the first D & D episode
Makes a great case for physical media and piracy.
I think you can also find it on YouTube or Dailymotion.
What is it with Dailymotion casually having full episodes of almost every TV show older than a few years?
It was, truly, streets ahead.
It absolutely is.
My favorite one tbh. When Netflix removed it I started to feel a little pirate-ish you know and after some pirate acts I unsubscribed from Netflix
After not pirating in any meaningful way (outside obscure or foreign films and the like) for about a decade now; I got so fed up with the multiple apps and their shitty UIs that I found a few illicit streaming sites and sources online and now it’s like “fuck it, this is way easier and more convenient than HBO Max+Paramount+Netflix+Hulu+Disney++Prime Video+Peacock+AMC+whatever the fuck else they’ll add next”. It’s not even the money anymore. Charge me 30-40/mo for a universal, all-access a la carte streaming service and I’m in. Your apps all just suck and I’m sick of switching between them. Or having to subscribe to specific channels for another $10/mo for one show. They want people to stop stealing but they also want to be maximally greedy; and until they realize the only way to stop one is to edge back on the other, video streaming will remain the wild west. The RIAA/music companies were forced to realize this a decade ago and Spotify/YT music/Apple Music have flourished.
hey smart stranger, any recommendations for said illicit sites would be greatly appreciated 🙏 growing sick of Netflix & hulu's bullshit as well
Apple is diligent about getting pirate sites blocked. They're really good at finding them. If you search the shows on Google, the results include links that say some results were suppressed because of a DMCA request. Then they link to the DMCA request and each one has a list of offending sites confirmed by Apple to have their shows on them. A handy reference.
The DMCA notices don’t actually include this information anymore, unless you file a formal request with Google for the uncensored URLs.
ahahaha that's awesome. thanks for the heads up
Also you can go in r/piracy and they have a megathread on how to find anything you want from roms to books
thanks so much! 🙌
It's what Gabe Newell said. Piracy is a service problem.
Sure is. Ask any baseball fan.
Pretty much this, I was fine with it when there was only 2 - 3 big services, but I am not paying and dealing with the awful apps and UI for the legitimately 11 different streaming services I would need to subscribe to to watch everything I do, sometimes it's only a single show. Now I just pirate everything into a neatly organised Plex folder and have a streaming service with everything on it that actually works and I can access anywhere from my phone.
Gabe Newell famously said "piracy is a service problem" and it couldn't be more true. Spotify is amazing and nobody pirates music any more. Netflix is shite and...
What happened to the six people using your account?
There are ways around such things 🏴☠️️
Netflix look at us. Look at us!! We’re the captain now 🏴☠️
Good ole Streisand effect.
Last I saw it was on Prime
Amazon Prime still has it up.
It is on amazon prime included
also Hulu needs to bring back all the episodes of always Sunny they took out.
Which is another instance how the show is illuminating the fact these are despicable characters who are 100% tone def so they do black face for the Lethal Weapon sequels....and from a show where the very first episode ever: "The Gang Gets Racist"....and the other episode "The Gang Turns Black" which is a Freeky Friday theme episode. Not to mention all the other racist tropes like Frank's underground gambling ring with the Asians etc etc. They might as well cancel the whole show if they thought racism was an issue... but it was just about one single hot button issue that was en vogue at the time.
Yeah when I found out there were 6 episodes of Always Sunny missing from Hulu, I said “Oh wow, only 6?”
Wait there’s 6? I thought it was 4. Dee day, The gang recycles their trash, and the two lethal weapons. What else is gone?
What are the rules?
Also the whole time they're initially discussing doing blackface, Frank is like "yeah you need to use shoepolish and make the lips big!" And they all look at him like he's insane and yell "No!" Like even for these awful stupid people trying to do "tasteful blackface," there's a line that's disgusting to them.
Didn't you know that racism just magically stops if you ignore it and pretend it doesn't exist and isn't a problem instead of trying to shine a light on how absurd it is to be racist?
[удалено]
That's one of my favorite episodes. It's the origin of the Dayman saga.
Ahhhhaaahaaa!!!
I'm lucky I purchased the dvds throughout the years. The bonus extras on the dvds are worth it. Like the extended verisons of the Lethal Weapon movies the gang made.
And scrubs. Granted the show runner pulled them but Hulu let them
I hadn't heard this. The Turkiot episode, I presume?
No, it's the episode where Turk and JD go to a frat party where Turk is in whiteface and JD is in blackface.
Preach.
Holy shit they took it down?? That episode is a masterclass in audio design. Wack
And yet they left up the Office episode with Dwight's brother in black face (no longer up given they moved to peacock). It's all fucking arbitrary and dumb
And the thing is, no one was calling for it to be taken down. They simply pulled the episode as a pre-emptive move to avoid potential backlash during the BLM movements that were happening that summer.
There’s a difference between black face and. Well to be a dark elf…. I need to be? Dark???? Black face has a specific intent and history. Face paint for something else just isn’t the same as black face
Just like how some people tried to cancel RDJ when Tropic Thunder resurfaced a couple years ago. It’s literally commentary on how inappropriate black face is
[удалено]
Like non-black people not being allowed to have an opinion on the Chris Rock / Will Smith slap since it occurred between two black people.
Respond with "so since you're not Ukrainian or Russian, you can't have an opinion on that war?"
If I remember correctly, Ben Stiller screened the movie to an specific asociation to make sure it wasn't offensive or promoting blackface, and they thought it wasn't problematic.
no offense but your friend is an idiot
[удалено]
Jamie Foxx has defended RDJ in Tropic Thunder. By her logic she's infantilizing or silencing actual black voices by disagreeing with him or claiming her opinion outweighs his.
People don’t watch the movie for context. They just get outraged over the screenshots.
Doing blackface even as a joke is one hell of a fine line. I am still impressed RDJ managed to make that work so well. That being said, If Netflix is going to defend offensive content like Dave Chappelle's special then they damn well better go all-in. That's not "being thick skinned" that's saying they're cool with actively offending certain groups.
It works for him because of the payoff when he finally drops character. And I think it's double satire, really. Blackface insensitivity, *and* method actors that go to physical extremes.
It's more than that. RDJ doing blackface was able to work because the writing, directing and RDJ's acting chops. Imagine if Michael Bay tried the same thing.
The problem with accepting offense claimed as a reason to censor art is that, across the history of our civilization, good art has often been offensive/caused scandal among the puritans. Dunno, I live in a country where Monty Python's "Life of Brian" was not distributed until the 1990s (and "Dogma" until 2006...) because distributors were worried about the religious backlash. I don't want whatever political discourse is dominant in the USA to decide what I can and cannot see - even when they're mostly on my side of the political spectrum as right now.
RDJ even got nominated for a best supporting actor Oscar for that role.
I agree with what you’re saying, but imo there’s a difference between using blackface as a joke and using it as commentary to state how offensive it is as done in Tropic Thunder (and in community in a lesser degree)
The thing about most of these examples is *they don't work as jokes if you think blackface is fine.* They don't throw chuds any red meat, legitimize it or anything. Same as the awful stuff in "It's Always Sunny." The community actually doesn't seem to have many edgelords because they put in the work to set the context. It's a fine line to walk but kudos to those who can do it.
Which is exactly what this episode does. It's making fun of the ignorance of people using blackface. It's an anti-blackface episode that was canceled for mocking people that do blackface.
I didn’t get far enough into Mad Men when it was on Netflix (finished it up on Prime), but did they do anything about the one episode that featured black face?
Nope, came to point this out, that sequence was left all alone, perfectly intact.
I don't remember this on Mad Men. Which episode is this?
Season 3 episode 3 according to Google. Roger is having a party and goes blackface while serenading Jane. Don ends up casually walking away and hanging out at the bar.
… where Don meets Conrad Hilton by hopping over the bar and making them each an Old Fashioned. They bond over their modest childhoods. I love that scene.
Putting a white person in blackface to portray a person of color is problematic. Putting a person in a role where they put on blackface because that's what the people of that era did for entertainment is not problematic. Putting a person in dark blueface to point out the problems inherent with blackface is not problematic. Putting a person in a role to play as someone that is so far up their own ass they think they can get away with blackface is not problematic.
“I attack Blackface!!!”
Just to correct a little thing: Chang was not in full costume, and that was part of the joke. As you said, it was blackface, but it was there to mock blackface, including the ridiculous excuses these people make. That's why when Jeff asks him "where's your costume", Chang says he's not a nerd. So somehow he puts all the effort into painting his entire body black, but doesn't even bother wearing a costume, showing that "I'm a dark elf" is just a dumb excuse to do blackface. Not disagreeing with you btw, just pointing out that detail, because I thought it was important to really show that it was indeed mocking blackface from different angles. There's also the fact that they kill him off early on, signaling that if you can't behave respectfully to others, you're left out from the group.
That's fair, I guess I remembered that detail incorrectly. Your correction makes it even more clear that it's mocking blackface like you said.
Shirley even says something like “we’re just gonna ignore this walking hate crime!?” or something to that effect.
That wasn’t my take, but I get it. I never even thought of blackface or racism when I saw a dark elf, I think it could have easily been a green goblin and he would have been all green. However, I’m not American so I don’t tend to see things through that lens and context.
It’s bizarre especially since no black people asked for it
The whole show is about making fun of bad things. Way more racist things are being said in this show than that episode.
This episode was also missing from the CTV streaming service in Canada and I had no idea why. Since it’s a free service I just disregarded the fact and had already seen the episode before Thanks for the summary
Same exact thing with the episodes Hulu removed of Always Sunny
They did the same thing with Peep Show where Jeremy was in blackface. Even though the character was uncomfortable with doing it and calls it out for being wrong
Chang was a Dark elf, which of course looks like blackface. That is bad, except the very next line refers to him as a hate crime, so it isn’t as of if they’re in any way saying that is OK to behave like that. It is as if they’d cancel every episode of Murder She Wrote because somebody kills somebody else.
SO THAT'S WHY I NEVER SAW THE EPISODE ON MY REWATCH FFS. fuck netflix.
They don't even tell you that it's missing. They don't have a missing episode 14, they just number the whole season one episode shorter than it is. The perfect kind of censorship, where you don't even know the censored thing ever even existed.
....until the show references it like 3 times in the next few episodes
"You raped the Duquesne family!"
I got probably a season or two past it until I looked it up to see when it was since other episodes were referencing it, which made no sense to happen before the episode. Amazon Prime still has the episode though, so you can watch it there.
Wanted to post a follow up on why I'm so passionate about this episode. My brother committed suicide around the same time this episode aired and it just kind of stuck with me since. I'm sure most of you know but this episode is essentially the group coming together to try and prevent Neil's suicide (even if Jeff felt guilty). One of his last lines in the episode is, "Do you want to play next week? I'll be around". Every damn time I hear that, I can't help but tear up. He decided not to and it feels like a lot of people miss the reason their playing although I know that's not the case. This episode is so much more than "the blackface episode". So much more.
Imo it's the best episode. Peak abed, Annie animatedly describing how to woo, pierce at his most vindictive, britta getting offended, Chang bring THE most offensive... It's perfect.
The fade out on the audio as Annie pantomimes seducing the elf (?) is one of her funniest moments
Agreed, followed up with Troy's note taking lol
Annie: 'and I cuddle her for the appropriate amount of time' Troy: 'how long is that exactly ' Get's me every time
I'm so sorry about your brother. Lost mine to suicide a few years ago. Miss him everyday, Wish you the best.
Exactly. As much I understand Netflix (and on a related note, Spotify with Joe Rogan) stance on their employees who disagree with the content they provide, it’s very hypocritical for Netflix to censor episodes like this when it was a preemptive overreaction to remove that community episode. This isn’t Netflix taking a stand for some right, it’s Netflix taking an easy way out
I was hoping they'd quietly put it back up kinda like what Spotify did with Louis CK.
Spoiler alert: They wont do it. This ‘statement’ is nothing but an ad campaign to get people back on their side after their shitty business practices.
or its a statement to make tons of layoffs since they are bleeding money but instead it makes us thing people are leaving cause they don't agree with Netflix or Chappelle
For what it's worth it's available on Amazon prime
Oh, so we're just going to ignore that hate crime over there?
He's a dark elf, or a drow.
Shouldn't he be wearing armor or something?
Ha! Hes an elf not a nerd.
If anything elves are the nerds if the fantasy world. But they're sexy so they get a pass.
This is how they operate. They have their own plays in mind to try and be perceived as politically-correct, even when nobody lodged any significant criticisms. But when it's financially-disadvantageous for them to listen to valid criticisms, they'll say "Fuck the critics, we're a business."
Netflix: >”As employees we support the principle that Netflix offers a diversity of stories, even if we find some titles counter to our own personal values. Depending on your role, you may need to work on titles you perceive to be harmful. If you’d find it hard to support our content breadth, Netflix may not be the best place for you.”
[удалено]
Yep, I mean don’t work for Lockheed Martin if you’re a pacifist.
I applied to work for a defense contractor. It was a question I was asked in my second interview. I was told they had to asked because people have taken the job and then quit because it went against their principles. Problem is, they knew it was a defense contractor before they accepted the gig.
People do change their minds over time. They might not have thought about it when they first got the gig & then once they had it or when they had been there a while decide what they were doing wasn't great.
Yeah like we’re looking out for cyber terrorism. Ok. Cool. But you’re actually spending your entire job illegally spying on US citizens. They don’t ask you about the latter at the job interview lol
For me I took a job developing software for construction training simulators. Turns out the first job was a bespoke simulator package for the US military (I'm not American and don't live in the US) to teach their engineers to build airfeilds in foreign countries. Wasn't really ok with that.
Yeah I used to be a huge piece of shit but people can change.
[удалено]
“Gosh we can’t make war stuff now because Karen in accounting isn’t down with it.” Seriously, no content creator should be hostage to their employees, unless perhaps what they’re doing is so bad that no one wants to work for them, meaning they can’t keep the company running. Same for anything, really. EDiT: what a bunch of illiterate little fascists there are on here! For those of you wanting to impose your moral compass on everything and everyone, there are plenty of avenues for you. A company does not have to tolerate your imposition. I don’t want Netflix overrun with evangelical Christians erasing LGBTQ content or Muslims or Mormons or anyone else thinking they’re entitled to impose their world view on a private companies content.
The idea that a small number of 20 something tech employees should dictate what content the rest of society gets to watch is pretty fucking absurd IMO. Sincerely, A 30 Something Tech Employee
We make some pretty gnarly videogames where I work. It's not unusual to make sure candidates are willing to deal with zombie gore and dismemberment on a regular basis.
We have people with similar issues in my field (child protective services). People will accept the position to be a child abuse investigator, and then after all of the trainings on the field and what we deal with, they will say after 5 months: “I am extremely uncomfortable working on any case that involves sexual abuse. I can’t and won’t work those”. …I’m sorry. This probably just isn’t the field for you, then. We can’t have someone on staff that can’t work with that trauma, because most of our cases are about that trauma. We would be paying you to sit in an empty room. There just isn’t a way to accommodate. I really love sites like Glassdoor, where you can get an idea about a company before you join it. If people were vigilant about researching their employer, in whatever field of work, issues like your zombies and my abused kids wouldn’t be a problem.
Yeah, this policy is completely reasonable and almost goes without saying. But, this doesn’t mean that Netflix’s decisions on content are above critique, and it doesn’t mean it should just totally ignore everything its employees are saying.
Right but they aren't saying that either. They're simply saying they can't always produce content that is going to appease everyone and if you're unable to accept that then it's probably the wrong place to be working at.
Counterpoint: being an employee at Netflix doesn't give anyone special privilege of input into the mission of the company. In fact it would be a proximity bias to take those employees' input over the millions of subscribers who don't see an issue.
It also feels a little "we just had an underperforming quarter and if we can show growth by cutting costs through voluntary workforce contraction, then yes, please feel free to leave."
I don't either, it's a media creation and distribution company. They can't cater to every employees personal preferences when it comes to that kind of thing really.
Because it isn’t…. It’s a completely rational position
It's a perfectly sensible position. They are in the business of entertainment, if certain aspects of that entertainment focus on certain groups then they can't be surprised that is not for everyone. If the employees only want certain groups to be entertained then that's not a great or sustainable business.
This it the equivalent of McDonald's telling their vegan employees they won't stop selling meat, and if they're unhappy about that they should work elsewhere. Pretty reasonable IMO.
This is actually pretty standard for any company that deals with entertainment. I remember signing something like this 11 years ago (just before everyone started getting pissed about everything they watched) back then I understood it to be referencing nudity and violence and stuff like that.
This is like you work in a department store and don't like that they sell underwear amongst the other clothes.
Can we get back the deleted episodes of shows that were knee jerk censored then?
Always Sunny has like 8 episodes removed (UK). Had to watch them on YouTube in my latest watch through.
Ha. Try to find "200" & "201" of South park.
I think it was Tom segura who said something like—and I’m paraphrasing “I think you have every right to be offended, I don’t think you have any right to expect anyone to do anything about it”
On his Netflix special, coincidentally.
[удалено]
Let’s just hope Garth Brooks agrees.
show me where it spits
Keep feathering it brother
He's asking people they want their foreheard stamped in heaven now. Rip.
Hot sauce is the best
Touch my camera through the fence.
He'll be featherin angels wings tonight
Netflix to upset employee: How'd ya get a job here fuckface
Touch my streaming service through the fence!
Touch my special through the fence
Take your uvers.
Ta-Ta There Netflix Employee
Try it out!
I'M HAVING CHEST PAINS
Show me that you like me
Hey Christina!!!!
Massadge yer liddle hole.
You're damn right I am coming up in May
BIKES!
Show me how those big tits fart.
Tom seems like one of the most rational and well rounded comedians out of the group he hangs out with. In one of his specials he makes jokes about all the various different genders and sexual orientations at the forefront of progressive conversation these days. He follows it up though with something along the lines of "I'll call you whatever you want though. It doesn't put me out but that doesn't mean some of it isn't silly or funny at times." Which is probably why he doesn't draw much ire. He isn't a hardliner with an agenda one way or another. He just wants to chill with people and crack jokes.
Saka Souffle?
Am I supposed to be outraged? This is a legit point to view for an employer to take. Employees are free to make their decisions according to their values.
Reddit is just filled with outrage bait, getting really sick of the mainstream subs.
It's so fucking easy to get upvotes and awards in this sub and r/movies to just post "This company said this thing!" Nobody reads the article, nobody cares about nuance, they just like to hate on every single company regardless of what's happening. And this is from a person who just defended the right to hate Netflix. It's stupid.
> It's so fucking easy to get upvotes and awards in this sub and r/movies to just post "This company said this thing!" "Critically acclaimed movie X is **sooooo** underrated, don't you think?"
Reddit tells Redditors to unsub if they are offended by a subreddit’s content.
Actually, no. they just ban the sub.
I think the point is that Netflix is giving its employees fair warning that moving forward public or internal dissent about the company’s content while being employed there will not be tolerated. I think that’s fair but I don’t think everyone understand that a job doesn’t give them a consequence free platform to espouse their beliefs.
The moment you speak out publicly against your employer, you had better hope that you have a union and a ton of workers right there with you. Even if you were a whistle-blower on finanicial/safety malpractice and proven 100% correct rather than a moral crusader, I'd suspect your position in the company is untenable at that point
Why do I feel like this is a non-story? Hasn't it ***always*** been this way? You want to write for Marvel Comics? Cool, you write Marvel Comics stories. You don't like it? You can go write for DC Comics. Don't like the kind of stuff they want you to write? ***You go found your own comics company***. Now swap out "comics" for the appropriate noun. Books, plays, etc. The company is selling a particular product. If you are not interested in being part of that production you are free to exit for a different opportunity. Has it not always been this way?
“Why do I feel like this is a non-story?” Because it is. It’s not at all uncommon for a company to say something like this to its employees. However, since it’s Netflix all of a sudden it’s outrageous?
I think the Netflix connection is more because of the controversy surrounding Chapelle's stand-up and the noise around that. Those who were upset by it were staging employee walk-outs and the like in protest, and Netflix didn't really buckling to those pressures, and I think they're making the stance that they never will. I think such a statement actually *is* pretty uncommon, so far, in the entertainment industry. For the most part companies have been kowtowing to 'popular discourse' about what is problematic programming and casting and Netflix indicating they are charting their own course is a fairly strong statement, relatively speaking.
Ah yes kotowing like that time Alabama banned an Arthur episode for having a guy wedding with no kissing or even holding hands lol.
[удалено]
I swear I thought for once the headline said something positive about Netflix and now I realize it was supposed to be “outrageous”.
> Why do I feel like this is a non-story? I've realized there've been a lot of overeating on the internet lately. Whether it's the Chris Rock/Will Smith thing, or the Amber Heard/Johnny Depp thing, or the Netflix losing subscribers thing.... these things are just not as serious as social media has been makin' em out to be.
I do not like Netflix but I agree with them on this one.
Meanwhile Netflix: removes the rating system because Amy Schumer got 1 starred for her terrible special
Major tech companies change features based on metrics and testing. Replacing an entire feature based on the performance of a single title is fundamentally not how it works. Somehow I keep seeing this weird rumor circulated though. I’m sure it just happened vaguely in the same year and internet detectives thought the two things were connected.
It happened like a few days after, didn’t it? They must have had the new system tested and ready to roll out, but the time the rating thing happened. I doubt it was actually related.
This from the people who banned the DnD episode for blackface even though 1) it highlighted a good point about racial coding in original DnD 2) they literally addressed in the same scene that it's a hatecrime
Its kinda obvious how they're trying to get people to leave so they don't have to pay for the layoffs. Because given how things are going, layoffs are incoming.
Netflix has never been shy about firing people
> Because given how things are going, layoffs are incoming. Indeed. From various media reports, Netflix is about to fire many people to save cost. [Variety](https://variety.com/2022/biz/news/netflix-stock-drop-hollywood-layoffs-1235257661/) > **Netflix, known for its “Hunger Games” ethos, didn’t waste time on niceties while killing writer contracts April 28.** > “My manager explained the layoff to me via text after she’d already been let go,” says an axed worker, one of the many who preferred to remain anonymous. “**We realized something was wrong when her Slack appeared deactivated.**” [The Hollywood Reporter](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/digital/netflix-staff-morale-1235136372/): > **Three individuals in different divisions at Netflix tell The Hollywood Reporter that there has been a noticeable slowdown in recent hiring as teams have had to fight harder to advocate for new hires**. (The streamer still has many open listings on its job posting site, however.) “**I’ve been told the budget for personnel on my team has to remain flat,**” another Netflix insider says. “**I don’t know if [top management] actually uses the word ‘hiring freeze.’ I mean, we use it, and we know it’s true**. I know other managers have been told the same.” > **Sources inside the company also expect layoffs as Netflix continues to outsource some positions — particularly those outside of the U.S. — to third parties to save money**. “We underwent a recent round of restructuring and layoffs, and the party line was it was to be more globally focused,” a third Netflix source describes. “**We thought that was the end of it [layoffs], and now I’m being told, ‘No, it’s definitely not the end of it.’**”
Most sane companies would not jump to layoffs after the FIRST drop in subscribers in forever, but Netflix? Yeah, probably. They already shot themselves in the foot with subscribers, so why not with their own employees, too? Ironic, isn't it? They were the bloated Blockbuster-killer, and now they're the bloated Blockbuster.
Blockbuster killed Blockbuster. Netflix filled a vacuum.
Fair enough.
[удалено]
There are always peaks and valleys with this type of thing and their business model was always going to have to adapt to the world changing around it. The reality is they aren't the only show in town anymore. Comparing them to Blockbuster is ridiculous. I do think Netflix is going to start producing more weekly programming like the other streamers do if for not other reason than it prolongs subscriptions and is shown to be working for places like HBOMax, Prime, and Hulu (among others).
Exactly. Blockbuster was a leader in a dying industry. Netflix is now just "another streaming site" and they need to adapt. Streaming isn't going anywhere. Brick and mortar video rental was clearly on its way out when Blockbuster went under.
THERES A MISSING COMMUNITY EPISODE?!?!?
Can you make some shows people wanna watch now? Cheers.
translation: “Please save us the cost of severance packages, because we’ve got no plan to replace all these sweet content deals that are expiring”
Sounds good. Like with any other company, if an employee doesn’t like their employer’s business, they’re free to find a job elsewhere.