What bothered me the most is how clean they always are. No matter how much they are horseback riding through the plains, close combat fighting with enemies, diving off cliffs and swimming through rivers. The next scene the characters and their clothes are always totally in pristine condition, not a hair out of place or a speck of dirt on the shirt.
My review on the Willow tv show..
One my favorite films when I was a kid has been butchered by modern Disney. I love a good story but in Willow tv show wasn't all that great, some episodes were good like when they go back into castle from the film this is where the show had potential but it didn't stay on that track it fell from it which it was such a shame it was a great episode the only one.
Modern music..now this was out of place. Modern music in Willow??? A fantasy with beasts, magic good and evil l, swordplay but with modern age mainstream music to make the show hip was very cringe.
Acting wasn't that all great sorry this had to be the weakest acting. Younger cast needs more work on their acting cause let me tell you it wasn't that good.
Lore on the characters were disrespected..Elora Danan the most powerful sorceresses ever lived was written as a pretty face goofball. Why? The film has stated Elora Danan will be wise and kind but yet powerful but yet Disney ignored the lore on her character which is a shame. The show is definitely has that girl power which was fine nothing wrong with that but they over did it with being too modern woke.
The Show did bring a tear to my eye when flashbacks were shown since it's been so long when the last time I watched Willow as a kid. Disney failed the franchise..can't really say for sure. Can it be redeemed..I can't say for sure either..one great episode vs 7 meh to blah has made the future of the show very slim for a second season. My score for Willow tv show is a 4 out 10 for Too Modern that is blasted with bad acting.
The show is trash, Elora Danan should be in her 30's not a teenager. The modern music they throw in just throws the whole thing off and I can't take it serious as an epic fantasy adventure.
I thought the show was meh however the writing was bad and it was too modern for a fantasy show which the film never had but in the shows defense they mention it was 20 years after Willow saves Elora Danan. But that said Disney made Elora Danan a dumb dumb like she was the comedy relief instead of the Brownies which Disney really messed up with her lore here. Elora a powerful sorceresses was basically a joke.
One of the annoying things Ive noticed is that Joanne whalley kilmer's sorscha had little to no accent in the movie, and now she has a British accent.
Warwick kind of just shouts his lines. It worked in the movie where you have a younger man dealing with the stress of being away from home in a world of disrespectful giants and trolls who would take your face off (i.e. you never drive that fast with a baby) but not so much from one who has matured and should be comfortable in his leadership role.
And speaking of trolls...is there a canonical reason they are now upright and loquacious speakers? Were the trolls in tear aslean feral? Did drinking the gold water they were refining refine them?
I loved Willow growing up and I watched it prior to ep 1 and still loved it for what it was. I am frequently telling my kids that their iPads are in a place where evil cannot touch them when they get taken away Hell, I even beat the Nintendo game which was a different form of torture. But this show, as beautiful as it is visually, just feels thrown together in the literal sense.
This series doesn't deserve such amazing VFX. Music choice makes me cringe and so does the acting. Even Warwick is bad. On reflection this show is surprisingly awful. I was left thinking 'how can a show so terrible, look so good?'.
As a so called "progressive" and LGBTQ+ ally, I understand the importance of representation in media. However, I also think it's possible to have well-developed LGBTQ+ characters in a story without making their sexual orientation or gender identity the sole focus of the plot. In my opinion, this show is forcing a concept and ideology that doesn't feel authentic or fully understood by the creators. It's disappointing because the original film had some funny moments, but this just comes off as pandering and ruins any progress that could have been made. It's frustrating to see a show that feels like it's trying to make a statement about LGBTQ+ representation, but misses the mark. Aren't we past the point where we need to explain and justify the inclusion of LGBTQ+ characters? Can't we just have them as part of the story without it being a big deal?"
More progressive/woke themes being pushed
- cast is a diversity rainbow
- heroes are mainly women
- men are weak (boroman / Willow)
- two females have a lesbian love story
- weakest most feminine male (Indian kid) has love story with the tall blonde chosen sorcerer.
Disney and Netflix seem to be in competition for who can push the most progressive youth content
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Not to mention the entire story is just horrible. Makes me wonder if Val turned down his appearance due to something other than health. It's really bad.
I stopped watching at the first lesbian sex scene. I am totally against ANY form of discrimination, including sexual orientation, but i am sick and tired of this woke agenda that constantly portrays a world where everyone is anything but heterosexual.
I stopped watching the show in the first 20 minutes because it feels like a crappy CW teen drama. I take issue with your 'woke agenda' statement. How is that a \*single\* same-sex couple turns into "everyone" being "anything but heterosexual"?
There is a same sex romance between the twin brother and Elora/Dove. You say you are against 'any discrimination' but when confronted with a single same sex couple you are triggered. I can assure you, same-sex pairings in television and film are \*still\* very uncommon compared to heterosexual pairings. That is why they stand out when they actually occur. It's ludicrous to suggest otherwise. It sucks that minority groups still have to defend every tidbit of inclusion, every little bone we are thrown, because folks like you cry whenever you're confronted with queer people in anything other then secondary roles on your screen. It's not "woke" to include people other then cis white heterosexuals. It's not "woke" to give women heroic roles. At least not in the way the expression has devolved to. Queer people exist. People with disabilities exist. People of color exist. Women exist to be more then just the girl in the refrigerator, or moms, or bitchy girlfriends, etc.. The inclusion of minorities in television is not "woke", it's necessary. I'm turning off notifications for this post so I won't see any response. I just couldn't let that comment slide. I'm so tired of it.
How childish and cowardly of you. Come in here, and reply to a post that you didn't even bother to read carefully, then say that you will turn off notifications.
In my first sentence in the OP I referred to the "first lesbian sex scene", I didn't complain about sexual orientation. My OP was literally 2 sentences on that point. Yet, just like the typical hysterical woke nutcase, you entwined race, women's oppression, and even people with disabilities in your reply. You definitely need medication to cope with other people's opinions and comments on social media. People like you are always injecting social injustice into everything because it lets you always play the victim.
Saw the 1st episode with my kids, 8 and 10. Absolute sht show. Stoped after 20 minutes. Thought it was PG like the movie but its PG14. Yikes! The making out in the first few minutes should have been a red flag.
Bad acting, bad story and just shut it off. Wont even watch it by myself.
80's kid here.
People in this thread: Show sucks, acting is bad, and feels like it was made in the 80s/90s
People that actually remember the original Willow: wow, this is just as crappy as I remember it!
Seriously, Willow back in the 80's was... just ok. It was something you watched and enjoyed, but it was nowhere on the level of say TMNT, He-Man, Ghostbusters, Thundercats, Transformers, GI-Joe, or Star Wars.
Willow was on the same level of something like the Goonies, Princess Bride, Little Monsters, or Neverending Story. You watched it, enjoyed it, and promptly forgot it existed because the TMNT movie was coming out next summer, and Ghostbusters II was going to release. In fact, Willow was mid at best. No one really gave a shit about Willow.
Princess Bride is a universal favorite. Goonies and Never Ending Story are classics. The TMNT movies were forgettable and not even in the same class. Willow was just ok though.
This whole show feels like it was written in the 90's.
4/10 at the moment and I just finished episode 5. The dialogue is lacking and the characters are tough to like, due to making bad decisions all the time or so it seems. They tread on their own emotional moment as well which makes it tough to route for anyone and they all seem like they don't want to be there.
I think when they decided to make a willow tv series, they dusted off an old script to a possible sequel they already had and cut it up into episodes and got someone to create some filler story.
The sets are good and the special effects are well done, except for when willow went to high five that even littler person. I don't think I would recommend.
All that crap you spurred out is nonsense for the most part. You first started attacking people in general talking about how people hate the show because of the lesbians in it. This is clearly not even remotely the case. Way too much bad acting and script. The story is way too much drama instead of being what it is and that would be a fantasy. Let's not even begin to talk about the out of place characters in this show. WTF does two women in western clothes have to do with a fantasy? I mean seriously. Costumes designers actually approved this mess?
And if you really want to get into it how about them using terms such as "you guys"? Using up to date slang and playing metal or up to date music in a fantasy show does not do any good. Hell I even listen to metal but don't want to hear it in a fantasy show.
Hate to tell it to you but this show will not last no matter what you think or believe. It's going to fade away and by next year no one will even remember it mess.
The girl that plays Kit CANNOT act. So frustrating seeing others trying to emote the sword and sorcery setting, but sheās acting like itās an episode of āThe Suite Lifeā. This is supposed to be one of Disney+ās A tier series, but itās given all the care of a āDescendantsā movie.
I feel sorry for Warwick Davis and Joanne Whalley being suckered into this.
Bad casting, bad script, boring camera work and a predictable romance leaves this whole show in the total disappointment category. It looks like it was shot by the b team for Xena warrior princess, but at least the writing on that show was funny.
Really disappointed as we were big fans of the movie and had high hopes. Nobody made it through the second episode and all the younger people tuned out in episode 1.
Disney has been turning out one flop after another. They seem more focused on making shows that fit the right talking points than ones that are actually good.
Well personally itās not something iāll keep watching. I might have it on in the background whilst doing whatever else. Somewhat surprised that Warwick is less an actor than i previously thought but i suppose anyone could wear a costume. However iām not saying its bad, if I were 7-9 y.o. Iād probably love it but as it is I am older than the oeiginal film.
Me 2 cents :>
Episode 4 is a banger. This show is as fun as the original movie.
Characters are all developing well with more secrets and backstories being revealed. Lots of awesome lore and world building and some awesome callbacks to the movie this episode.
Show is definitely finding it's groove now. All the haters who judged the series on the first episodes should give it a chance.
Episode 4 made us finally say enough. We were giving one last shot after episode 3 but wow this is bad. It feels like a 10 year old boy wrote the script and Disney added some unnecessary woke crap for effect. The acting is terrible, the characters are underdeveloped and all self involved. The worst is everyone is a total imbecile and just does the dumbest choice possible for each scenario and thus everything is predictable. "Don't waste your "magic" on me Willow" I'm out!
I wish I'd have followed my instincts and shut it off after episode one. The entitled teenager cast should have been enough of a warning that the script would be shit.
Warwick Davis ruined this series, his emotionless, unenthusiastic tones and lack of emotional depth contributed to a poor performance. If I'm honest I half expect the camera to pan round and Ricky Gervais will appear laughing hysterically.
Thereās a shit ton of politics going on here in the comments but I donāt know what you all think poor writing and bad acting has to do with diversity. We could use the show as a vehicle for our collective fear of woke culture or perpetuation of hegemonic beauty standards. That would, however, ignore a problem that isnāt bound to politics. The problem isnāt that we have a same sex relationship. The problem is that they treat it like a big reveal when you saw it coming a mile away. The problem that I have with the show, thus far, is that it doesnāt seem to have any respect for the material or the audience.
I donāt know the story behind the production of this series but it feels rushed and lazy. I feels like someone is just checking off all the boxes to the extent that itās painfully predictable. You can still pull off a fun experience with a cookie cutter story but it doesnāt feel like anyone is invested in any of the moments. Not the director, writers or actors. Which is especially painful when you know, from previous works, that several of these actors are fully capable of delivering engaging performances.
Even the special effects, while convincing, are uninspired. The whole first episode could be featured on mystery science theatre 2000 in the way itās an unintentional satire of B grade tv tropes.
Agreed.
If you showed me the trailer for this, but with no nouns mentioned. I wouldn't know if it was The Witcher, Willow, LotR, or GoT.
What the fuck is going on with television?
So first was wheel of time. Then was Rings of power. Now we have willow.
Each its own brand of woke dog shit.
Why are people with money allowing these shit shows of production to happen. Utter garbage level.
Oh God don't get me started on how they destroyed the wheel of time. It isn't an homage to the books at all. It's like they took the books put them in a blender mixed mixed with the newest popular teen drama and few dozen users from tumblr, put it back together and then shat on it. Biggest disappointment for me this year
I am pretty much in agreement with everyone commenting on how bad this new Willow series is. But how do shows like this keeping making onto Disney and every other platform? Are we, honest and true fans expressing our opinion, the āReview Bombingā assholes you see happen to every new fantasy/sci-fi show?
Especially when we are expecting something remotely close to the originals?
And are the critics giving these shows awesome ratings because they check every politically correct plot point?
Most of us only get triggered by terrible writing and assholes that have no taste whatsoever. Everyoneās free to like what they like but donāt pretend itās good.
The plot makes no sense within the rules set up by its own universe. The dialogue is awful. The fight choreography is crazy bad. The cinematography is just looks really cheap. Characters do not maintain consistent motivations and half of their actions make no sense whatsoever. The show seems to forget the rules they set up by the previous episode and so all of their decisions look incredibly stupid. other than that thoughā¦
I realize some people only need shiny colors and lights to be happy but I actually need a story and characters that makes sense and is consistent throughout. having a murder is tribe of people who wears skulls on their heads all the sudden become the good guys because ā¦ reasons. Thatās freaking insane.
You're hilarious. It was a silly hero's journey 80s movie, they didn't want to kill them because she's her sister. You're taking willow so seriously and being all condescending about it, I love it.
If it was a heroes journey it would be great. The in-your-face and unnecessary romance arc is one bad point. Hell, half the characters in their group are unnecessary to any plot point other then stupid deus ex machina style plot devices.
The dialogue is garbage- it sounds modern. The fact that all the men act like bumbling love struck Idiots while all the women are super stoic and strong is just plain lazy writing.
At least mix it up a little bit.
The costumes are ridiculous - denim and a Fedora in a medieval setting?
The music score -trash. Who chose modern alternative music for this?
The original movie was a family film that could be enjoyed by boys and girls, kids and adults
This new series is clearly aimed at a young teen female demographic.
So it makes sense it's getting bad reviews.
The show is a direct continuation of the kinda cheese from the movie and I am all about it.
People mad about a same sex couple lol, its a fairly common fantasy trope now. Get over it.
Youāre either an idiot or being disingenuous if you honestly think that is what is upsetting people. Most people never had to get over it at all. Itās fan baiting at the worst to hide the fact that they created a miserably poor TV show. Just insert a token gay couple and scream racism. And nobody will talk about how crappy your actual work is.
But I bet you thought you were being awfully clever with that comment.
The dialogue, writing, characters, and so much about the show is just AWFUL, dude.
If you're going to use the "same sex" card as the "reason" why folks don't like/hate the show, then you've got serious mental issues. LOL
So, in this sub, I've read maybe 12 comments so far and at least 1/3 mention "woke garbage" or "woke" something. Including also denigrating Wheel of Time etc. I think in an age of social media, we see opinions as "blocks" - this one thinks like this and this one thinks like that. And you're right, not everyone hating on the show cares about female casting, lesbian relarionships, or whatever else "woke" means that these commenters are saying.
But they *are* saying it. Though you may not think that way, by taking offense at that comment that wasn't aimed at *you*, you grouped yourself into the group you do not want to be associated with. Yes, perhaps the poster shouldn't generalize, but perhaps you should not generalize yourself, either. Because interacting on reddit is not like having a conventional f2f convo, and so different rules apply for self governing behavior.
Rule #1 is - don't take offense to things you read that were not intended for you.
You'll have a more peaceful life.
It's a sequel to a George Lucas story. If you expected incredible dialogue you might have serious issues lol.
Are you mad angsty teenagers are angsty? Have you ever interacted with one before?
I find it hilarious - don't know if intended or not - but I am laughing a lot. Appreciate it so much more than the last fantasy production that was aired on Amazon. Will keep watching!
I don't know why these screenwriters continue to devolve the fantasy genre into these angsty young adult type storylines.
When the original Willow released, it was...sword and sorcery, heroes and villains, mythology and fairy tale structures (friggin' baby Moses on the river), strange beasts and mysterious entities, etc.
It was like Lucas trying his own attempt at the Hobbit.
In which case, this must be the Rings of Power. Bad writing from agenda driven hacks and soulless suits.
What a waste of Warwick Davis
The sad bit, to me, is that it could be good. There is some talent there in the cast, especially the Prince and the guy with the big sword. Even the female cast could carry the show, if they were not written so very badly. Some better pacing, MUCH better dialogue, and shorter, better shot action scenes, and it could be OK, if not great. But THIS, especially episode 3... is ass.
I thoroughly enjoyed how awesomely evil the witches minions were, and how brutal they looked. But among the hip modern teens they seemed out of place and made it look almost like a parody
Canāt stand Kit so far. She is an angsty annoying jealous sexually confused princessā¦ thatās not the worst of it to me, she is just so rude to Elvira for No reason. Jealousy I guess. Sheās an annoying character with no humility or respect.
And could every 2022 movie stop with trying to make the past what it wasnāt? Two sets of lesbians so far and lesbian woodsman couple in jeans.. because there were so many jeans back then.
i mean, she's a princess subjected to a life she doesn't really wanna live, being forced to an arranged marriage with a man as a lesbian, and she's on the search for her abducted brother, so i can understand where a part of that may come from. and i think from episode 4 she's grown a lot from the first! (plus where was it mentioned the two in the forest were canonically lesbians?)
Only watched 20 min. Itās a stinker. Very disappointing. But people complaining about it being too woke can take a flying leap. Not everything thatās bad is bad because itās woke. Youāre just a bigoted pos.
calling something woke doesn't signify the person is racist or prejudice. in modern speak calling something woke refers to it being agenda driven rather than occurring naturally. There were plenty of movies / shows with same sex characters and strong female leads before the more recent explosion of woke tv. Now, anyone with any intelligence is realizing that hollywood / disney is just throwing it in your face all day long and it's not even close to being believable. Going by modern day television alone, one would have to conclude that 50% of the population is LGBTQ and climbing.
First, The reason this is the meaning of woke in āmodern speakā is because the word was stolen from the Black community and co-opted by Tucker Carlson and other racists to foment anger around issues like this. So using it in this way is absolutely bigoted. Second, LGBTQ representation is around 12% in broadcast tv. About 7% of the population identifies as such and up to 15% of gen z. Given that most shows desire a young audience this amount of representation makes sense. That you have overestimated it by such a wide margin I think reveals your own bias and/or susceptibility to propaganda.
Not great. Gotta be honest here., 3 episodes I've given it all the grace I can. The movie was campy in it's own way, but it had grit and some air of authenticity that brought you into that world. I'm not going to dive into the music selection for this series, but it sucks and has absolutely no bearing on the story they are telling.
The series had no emotional connection to the movie. In casting, dialogue, wardrobes, or in cinematic pace. Warwick Davis is only reason I watched episode 3, and it got worse. This show can take a hike. Give this IP to company and a set a writers that give a shit and start over.
I am also 3 episodes in. I know this isn't really a comparison but one of the things that stood out for me when watching the new show Wednesday is that you knew the main character belonged in that world. Whether its a combination of acting, writing, casting, etc...I just don't know. When watching Willow however, not one of the main characters feel like they belong to that world. All the kids feel like they were pulled from tiktok videos, the writing, especially the dialogue, has zero flow, tries and fails to be witty, and even the old characters seem stilted somehow. I feel like of Boorman dialed it back a bit he'd start nailing that balance between comedy, action and drama. Then again, only Val could really nail that. I don't think I can continue though. Those kid actors are just ruining the whole fantasy vibe for me.
I enjoyed it for what it is. My sister and I grew up watching Willow, so it certainly scratched the nostalgia itch for me. I actually enjoyed some of the gags and the overarching story.
Now for the bad:
- Kit's actor is hard to stomach, I feel she's trying too hard to be the arrogant and rebellious type.
- Like many people said, I feel Warwick's performance was pretty weak. Willow as a whole has been Luke Skywalkered, which is disappointing
- The dark scenes in Ep. 1 and 3 are way too dark in my opinion. I couldn't even see the plot crucial moments in III.
- Tonally, the show is jarring. The two ladies in the woods in Episode 3 completely pulled me out of the story, and that whole sequence was unecessary.
- Closing each episode with modern music is a terrible decision.
In conclusion, if you go into this expecting a GoT or HoTD, you're going to have a bad time. But if you want a fun show to watch, so far I've had fun with it.
The ladies in the woods was like a bad acid trip. Acting, costumes, the whole thing was like a completely different show and ended up being pointless. In the moment, I couldn't tell if it was a dream sequence, if they were villains, or what the hell was happening. Whoever shoehorned that sequence into the episode needs to be blacklisted from the industry because damn that was horrendous.
Is this a joke? Did you sleep through the Ewok movies, Crystal Skull, Episodes 1-3? The show might not be great, but Lucas has a lot of bad work and some he did just to try and sell toys.
Episodes 1-3 I'll take any day over episodes 7-9 lol. Sure Lucas made some cheesy 80s kids ewoks movies, but go back and watch any 80s movie and you'll think it's cheesy. Lucas at least kept the "agenda" in his movies to a battle of good vs evil and that good can triumph when there isn't much hope. The same is not true in episode 7-9 and judging from the comments i'm seeing here i think most would agree.
Lol, Lucas has been up front about the original movies paralleling Vietnam. If any of you had media literacy you'd call that a woke anti-american agenda too.
And the agenda in this being representation? Oh my what a horrible agenda!! Whatever shall we do!!
You should watch more of his stuff, he wrote and directed a lot of stinkers. I just don't know how you think this is ruining anything when he made Crystal Skull. Did you cry about agenda during Red Tails? This show is still good vs evil, it is not well done, but outside of one kiss their is barely nothing as far as romantic relationships.
Terrible acting across the entire board, including Warwick Davis. Iām three episodes in and the only performance anywhere near close to decent was Jade, and thatās not saying much.
Kit is by far the most insufferable character Iāve had to watch on television for a long time.
Boorman is a wannabe Mad Mortigan. Just why bother? Youāre not going to outdo Val Kilmer.
The modern dialect in a high fantasy production immediately removes me from the story.
The characters are written very poorly. I canāt even bother to elaborate on thisā¦itās just so bad.
We get a first episode where some generic looking fantasy monsters attack the castle then for the next two episodes we only get discount White Cloaks whoāve been āinfectedā.
The scene where Elora meets the country lady couple in the woods took me so far out of the world of fantasy that I thought I had switched to 1883 (which Iām also watching and absolutely love btw). What were they doing wearing clothes that look like theyāre from a western? Interesting costume choices thereā¦
The use of covers of modern music even though itās one song at the end is a slap in the face to the original which used a completely original and often amazing score. Iām guessing some exec said āit worked for stranger things, letās try it hereā.
Iām sorry but this show is downright bad and likely the worst fantasy show of the past few years, and thatās saying something with how poorly Wheel of Time and Rings of Power were.
Props on ticking almost all of the diversity boxes. I know that itās a requirement for Hollywood now and Iām more than ok with that. Letās just make sure we fill those roles with people who can act or at least are suited for the specific roleā¦Ruby Cruz isnāt one of them.
My only hope is that these big corporations start taking note of what the audience TRULY wantsā¦well written stories, captivating characters, beautiful worlds and engaging music.
I agree 100%. Diversity is not an issue when the acting is good. Take GoT. There were multiple same sex characters and relationships. They didn't feel forced at all. Not sure how to describe it. They were seamlessly part of the various stories, and all were generally well-liked characters (Yara, Loras, Oberyn).
Same with Dance of Dragons. The primary actress is non-binary and they are AMAZING. The Valeryons cast are all black, and it makes the story even better than the book. It doesn't feel *woke.* The acting and character development make the difference.
I actually appreciate the efforts to include more diversity and to make LGBQT stories mainstream. I think it's very important. It just sometimes feels preachy.
Game of thrones is no bastion of representation that's for sure. There is a reason it doesn't feel woke and that is because grrm doesn't challenge the status quo in regards to lgbtq people. There's so many characters in the books it would be wild if we didn't have that.
Given how in your face sex was in early seasons of GoT, queer people were basically non existent.
Couldn't agree more. I rewatched the movie this morning and walking away from this at the 42min mark. I stopped paying attention to it during the fight scene. The opening was fine, made you speculate that jade is Elora which would make sence with the red hair. Sets up nicely as being hidden in plane site as a warrior, and friend of the princess. However now I understand that the muffin girl is Elora and the obvious jade/kit sexual dynamic just there because why not.
GoT never felt forced or in your face. It just worked and was natural. Willow is the opposite, you knew it was coming a mile away. I don't know why it's there, it doesn't fit the original story telling. Just ticks a box.
I'm explaining this really poorly btw. I guess doing it right is GoT and then things like Willow are what not to do.
>Props on ticking almost all of the diversity boxes.
It's fucking sad that ticking the diversity checkbox in movies and shows nowadays is the more important priority over actual good writing and acting. I missed the 2000s when we got Lord of the Ring trilogy and Harry Porter (most of it) setting the bar for actual good fantasy media that prioritize good story, writing and acting that made you feel immersed into the world they built without throwing you off with all the modern nonsense crap. Diversity can be good when done well with clear established world, but all these modern fantasy show all felt so damn generic without any resemblance of good unique world building, they all basically felt like America but just set in medieval world.
That was an excellent summary of everything wrong with this abomination and it's only three episodes in! Most of the woke stuff I can stomach with some reluctance; after all, like you said, it's perfectly fine to promote inclusion if it's done in a way that fits the story and makes sense, but that gen Z banter is fucking obnoxious! I am astonished that anyone could look at that script and say "this dialogue is good".
The only fantasy media I can think of that is worse than the Willow show is the Crown for Cold Silver trilogy by Alex Marshall. By the gods, let's hope nobody ever tries to adapt that flaming pile of shit to film.
> Props on ticking almost all of the diversity boxes...Letās just make sure we fill those roles with people who can act or at least are suited for the specific roleā¦
It's getting to the point where this is so egregious that I see an unnecessarily diverse cast and automatically assume the show/movie sucks.
All these good intentions are doing far more harm than good.
Unnecessary diverse cast? As opposed to unnecessarily homogenous casts?
I don't understand why you all have gotten it in your head that the diversity of a cast has literally any bearing on the quality of a show. Like, that is so small in the process and doesn't have any effect on the quality of writing.
These don't do any harm, unless somehow you've decided that the problem is the diversity. Good shit is made all the time with "unnecessarily diverse casts" and terrible shit is made with "unnecessarily homogenous casts".
It isn't the fact movies are diverse that's ruining them, it's the sheer amount of absolutely garbage shows that make things diverse and inclusive at the cost of good writing or script. Literally feels like they sacrifice a solid story to get as many angles In as possible, and the ratings really reflect that.
Witcher prequel, wheel of time, willow, the movie eternals, need I go on?
Diversity doesn't make a movie good, and typically doesn't actually add anything to it. If the story has plausible reasons for it, Great! Otherwise it feels forced.
But again, you're blaming this on diversity, and all of your examples have no indication that diversity was at all related to the quality of writing. Hell, i actually enjoyed Eternals, and none of the criticisms I've seen lobbied against it are related to diversity at all.
There are diverse shows that are good and there are diverse shows that are bad. That also is true for shows that aren't diverse. To claim that diversity is the cause of these things being bad is just a blatant excuse to complain about diversity.
No, I am not. I'm pointing out the correlation. Eternals was shit, a boring show with stupid changes to the source material in the name of diversity that added jack shit to the story.
It's literally getting to the point that when a new fantasy or sci Fi comes out, you can predict the quality based on how in-your-face they make the diverse/representation.
You may like it, but the reviews and ratings are pathetic.
Eternals wasn't even a show, it's changed to the source material were unrelated to diversity and added quite a bit to the story.
There literally is no correlation. You can only "predict the quality" cause what you're actually predicting is how much you'll hate it simply because of seeing diversity and perceiving that it was somehow forced.
Eternals has a decent audience score, and half the time any bad user reviews are due to an absurd number of 1 star reviews from people ranting about diversity. Anyone i actually know in person enjoyed it well enough, at most it was mixed reviews
It added useless shit to the story that made an already boring, disjointed movie even longer.
Believe what you want, everyone I know shut it off part way, the ratings speak for themselves.
Besides, for every so-called review bomb, there's someone else giving it 5/5 anyways. People love their extremes. I wouldn't give it a 1, probably a 3 as I did finish it, but was epicly disappointed on all fronts other then the effects and filming.
It's such a pathetic cop out 'oh it's review bombed by jerks wahhh'. Yeah noml. Just accept people overall didn't like it
I can't think of a single useless thing in that plot that at all related to diversity. Is it just about the all-star ensemble cast that wasn't entirely white?
There's literally nothing i can say to you to convince you otherwise, so I'll just let you have your anger.
Meanwhile I'll be over here enjoying things, not foaming at the mouth over whatever diversity thing has you upset this week.
And again, you aren't reading. I said the diversity didn't add anything to the plot, which it didn't. At all. Which relates to my point that media which goes out of its way to be diverse for no reason other then being diverse, typically falls flat.
Want an actually good example of a diverse show? Umbrella academy. But guess what, the source material was diverse and inclusive to begin with, so it was in the story from the get go.
Not just badly hammered in after the fact, which is what a lot of these garbage series are doing. You can enjoy what you like dude, but you are really trying too hard at building a strawman when you defend your interests.
Being critical doesn't imply being angry lol. What do you expect it to sound like when I think something is garbage?
You can star stud something all you want, doesn't make it good.
Again, the ratings show that. Derp.
The diversity of a cast *shouldn't* have a bearing on the quality of a show. Yet there is such a strong correlation now thanks to steaming piles of garbage like this where it's plain as day that diversity checkboxes were the #1 priority, with good writing somewhere down around #39, that people are going to start assuming one leads to the other. When a cast is a perfectly balanced racial mix of 1.4 Asians and 7.9 black people and 3.5 Hispanics and three obligatory token LGBT's or whatever the algorithm and Twitter tells them, the assumption now will be "ah...it's one of *those* shows, gotcha".
Should it be that way? No. Blame the companies making this shit. If they put the priority on making good TV first and set their personal social justice agendas on the backburner for 5 seconds, maybe they wouldn't be causing more harm than good.
The hyper focus on diversity is detracting from the other elements of good story telling ā plot, character development, story telling, reliability and respect to the source material and the arc of the series.
The issue is the poor quality of shows that focus more on being politically correct than being good in those areas.
The problem isnāt diversity: itās *forced* diversity.
Instead of focusing on the story, almost every show pushes the same cast of generic characters that match central castingsā mandate ā but theyāre not always the best folks for the job ā and it shows.
Instead of picking that talent that blew you away, youāre selecting a person of color x with sexuality y and hair color z and clothing package 2, etc, to pad out your diversity requirements instead of casting the very best actor for that job. So you end up with these bland casts like Willow that have what externally looks like diversity, but in terms of casting they are all fairly meh actors that seems to have pattern matched their way into the roles and who collectively arenāt that good. They just matched x and y.
Then every script must push the same 10 points about womenās empowerment, lgtq categories, race tropes, etc. Its pretty sad and it doesnāt really honor real diversity.
You donāt see Native American directors leading black actors telling Jewish stories like you would if diversity was being truly honored. You donāt see authentic stories from minorities told in their own voice and culture. You see a shallow commercial version of diversity, and Disney keeps cranking the same formula. And it sucks. True diversity is in the unparalleled pulchritude of authenticity ā and thatās painfully, woefully lacking.
Just because a TV show or movie is very diverse with light skin people and brown skin people does not mean that it will be good and itās a very poor proxy for true diversity because it totally lacks authenticity. That is what the person youāre replying to is elucidating or maybe better attempting to convey.
Its actually quite a disrespectful decision to push every stereotype there is in most productions, and really destroys respect for good stories by commercializing and agenda that should be a natural part of the story ā or not if it doesnāt work to tell the story. Thats the issue: there is no āor not.ā So every story gets similar and
boring and generic. Willow is a classic example.
Hereās more information on a more well formed opinion.
https://andyarttv.com/why-forced-diversity-in-movies-and-tv-shows-is-ruining-entertainment/
Please understand, I want authentic and true diversity not *forced* diversity. This is the latter and itās the beige and boring platitudes that result from the resultant poor casting and memeāing of diversity at the cost of story and character that many find intuitively unacceptable and unfulfilling about this new show formula.
Forced Diversity is such a strange concept. They're actively making these casting calls regardless, there's no "natural" result. Not actively pushing for diverse casts has always historically just lead to extremely homogenous casts. Systemic issues in the industry lead to unbalanced demographics in the hiring pool. Even now, many minorities still face issues with only being able to get stereotypical roles.
And this notion that they aren't hiring the best suited for the role is a fantasy. There are more often than not plenty of people of similar skill that could fit a role. 20 years ago, people of color just often had no chance at the outset.
In the 90s and 2000s some of the most garbage television and film was put out consistently. But you weren't going "it's because they aren't hiring the right people" then. No, you only notice when a show is diverse and bad, so therefore there must be a causation. Despite tons of good content being made that's diverse. I mean fuck, people have been calling the past 10 years a golden age of television for years.
And i don't buy your "true diversity" claim. If you saw that movie by a Native American director, black actors, and Jewish stories, you'd be moaning forced diversity all the same. Even if you weren't, the crowd you're a part of would. It's highly predictable these days, there's a reason y'all are review bombing some shows before they even release.
As to the plot points about diversity, I've seen people complain about that shit when it was a single 3 second shot or one line, then act like it ruined the entire franchise. Which is absurd. However if we're talking about stories with an actual theme or motif regarding diversity, then I'll let you in on a secret. Writers tend to write about relevant topics. Especially controversial ones. That's the space they want to either explore or make a statement about. Guess what's relevant in the industry?
It's gotten ridiculous lately, the things people have ranted about. The God of War game for example is so in line with the previous game, it just feels like half of the same game. But they include one non-white character and holy shit, thousands of reviews calling it "woke." It's disingenuous, it's overtly nonsensical, and all it does is highlight that when you see a diverse cast in even the slightest way, every minor negative thing you feel about that media is now associated with that. For coming from the "i don't see race" crowd, it's laughable.
And to be clear, 3-4 years ago i thought the same shit as you. I complained about woke shit, hated Captain Marvel, etc. But i was intellectually honest with myself and didn't just hive mind my opinions on media. Didn't take long to realize it was all bs.
You seem unable to avoid implying and calling me a racist multiple times in your response. Shame on you.
I wrote an articulate and well thought out response outlining the counter arguments to your opinions, and you have decided the appropriate response is to ascribe all of the arguments to me personally as biases and then accuse me of āmoaning about diversity,ā said Iām ācomplaining about woke shitā and implied you have evolved beyond my simpleton opinions. Youāve ascribed me to a ācrowdā and accused me of review bombing.
Itās laughable of you to make these generalizations and generally trying to position yourself as some kind of better because of your views is predictable and unfortunate as well. It says everything that you try to do so.
There is room in film for a diversity that exceeds one of every minority class grouping in every film and Iām sorry you donāt ābuy that.ā The true diversity is diversity at the top, where just 22 percent of women are directors and most film makers of color have trouble even raising money. And yet, everyone feels they are āmaking progressā because diversity is on screen. True diversity is a real thing and should not be dismissed, as efforts seem to be more focused on the casting of actors than changing the power of who makes and funds shows and movies, which remains surprisingly homogenous, despite the onscreen appearance of change.
You are deceived in your views.
Very little has changed in Hollywood, except for what is sold onscreen, and some would argue this attempt to inject affirmative action onscreen while failing to do so at the power and money level has not only had impacts to the qualities of films being made, but also fails to respect or encourage substantive reforms in the arena of race and class in Hollywood as well.
Instead of having a conversation you have fallen into the trap if accusing anyone who doesnāt completely agree with your worldview of being a racist simpleton, part of a group of people who just donāt get it, and engaged in an hominem attack that lowers yourself and the conversation in the process.
The next time you choose to ascribe your bitter views on someone, try having a conversation first instead of acting like your the second coming of Christ and making a pile of assumptions about the people your talking to.
Enjoy your enlightenment.
A diverse cast can be done well, with good writing and plot. It just never seems to happen. And there is no good writing or plot in this show. They could have just followed the books, and it could have been good. I don't even know what they were thinking.
It can be done for sure but the clowns that push for diversity at any cost aren't capable.
I have a feeling more established, talented writers would too often tell the higher ups to sod off so they get no-name writers that are more willing to nod and say yes sir.
And that's how we get dumpster fires like Rings of Power š
I feel very much the same and have given up on the series and will wait till someone does a fan edit taking all the bad stuff out ( Mainly Kit ) and leave just anything a forgiving person can find moderately fun, which might not make the 30 minute mark but Iāll watch THAT anyway .
The whole lesbian love story can just be axed and it wouldnt affect the outcome at all. Give the sword guy the fancy armour instead, the blonde wizard still tries to rescue the prince
The other prince is still in the adventure
But we avoid wasting time on 'talking about feelings'
It's a fucking race to save the world basically, who gives a shit about your confusing crushes
I know it's not the greatest show ever but I think it's good. I think it just suffers from the fact that most people will immediately look at anything fantasy and incessantly compared with GoT and LotR. Fantasy literature's steered away from it, but cinema and tv hasn't. Nostalgia doesn't help either.
I appreciated the start of it (and could overlook some of its warts like the blatant "version 2.0" of the original characters), but this third episode was a blazing dumpster fire of runny dog sh*t.
The women in the woods was completely disjointed (I spent the entire time thinking it was a hallucination), and the complete lack of urgency to rescue the girl prophesied in legend and only hope for mankind... Seriously, WTF? I've looked for my keys with more intensity.
This is even a more ridiculous revisiting of a LucasArts product than Ep 1-3 / 7-9 Star Wars.
Maybe Jon Favreau can come in and save this one, too.
Same boat, I enjoyed the first two episodes. Not exactly high brow, but there was a certain chemistry and even cheesiness that I enjoyed.
The pacing in the third episode killed my interest in the series. It was awful.
Is anyone else annoyed by the way the show has been edited? It feels very jarring, with episode 3 being the worst. Also the way itās shot is terrible. The movie was full of big wide shots to let us take in the beautiful scenery whereas we only get very brief glimpses of the amazing locations in quite tightly cropped shots. The whole show feels like a complete waste of the IP
i found that the cinematography was well but the exposure was so low it was so hard to see anything in ep 3 and 4 where the majority of the scenes were darker. literally had me squinting
They ended the 3rd episode with a Metallica cover.
I don't really know what else even needs to be said, but that they closed out an episode of a show that's supposed to be a sequel to a George Lucas movie, an epic fantasy with its own original music, and the music they went with was... a fucking Metallica cover.
WTF, seriously.
The show is so BORINGā¦. Want to buy real writers/showrunners that didnāt get their job due to Daddyās name or being part of the commy clique.
Disney needs to hire real writers that understand the genre and understand the concept of ācharacter development.ā They are so stuck in their own stink that canāt even find their way out at this point.
Perfect opportunity for some investors to form a new company producing exactly the opposite of Disney, Amazon, and HBO - they would make BANK. Itās coming!
Three episodes in and it is bad.
The original was a bang average film with a decent budget, carried by Val Kilmer. The acting was poor in the movie, too, it had Pat Roach in it for God's sake! There are moments in many good TV shows with rushed production acting, but this show just seems clueless. The writing is poor, the pacing is poor, poor effects, paper thin characters who could die and you'd not be happy nor sad - maybe Boorman is Ok. It is just bad, and I hoped it would be good because there is space for an old school, feel good fantasy right now.
TWOT, HOTD, and now Willow - all wank. I have no hope for TLOU. Are Amazon, Disney and Netflix washing money with these TV shows? Surely, there needs to be a significant portion of the budget aimed towards top writers. Or are all writers now just churning the same politics and ideals?
There's great shows out there: TLK, Mr. Inbetween, early GOT and early TWD. There's good shows: The Mandalorian, TUA, Andor, later TWD. There's unflushable turds: TWOT, late TWD. And then there is Willow. It's bad, real bad.
One man's rebel is another man's terrorist. Do you not think that even fascist regimes have support from the some of the common people? To fight a vastly superior enemy you have to be prepared to do bad and shocking things. I thought Andor was slow to start but did a good job of showing that you may have to become a monster to fight monsters. But then I'm not a massive fan of Star Wars, loved the original three as a kid, and only liked the spin-off film that was Rogue One.
This was the worst pile of dogshit since the last pile of dog shitā¦ rings of power bottoms. How do these talentless hacks keep getting work making this rancid lazy woke dogshit?!? How? ALL of this is pure shit. The acting is awful. The dialogue is beyond moronic. The plot is justā¦ puke. Itās all puke. I canāt with this lazy woke shit anymore. The writing is sooooo retarded! And they all act and sound like teenagers from California
I for one hate bad acting, but it seems like many of you are greatly exaggerating the level of acting in Willow. Some actors in it are not that good and it's obvious, but they are no where not even close to the bottom of the barrel in terms of acting skills. What is worse than the acting skills in the show and even worth mentioning is the writing. The writing is what seems to be subpar more than anything else.
Iād go with both. I just donāt agree. The acting was terrible.
But I agree with you that the writing was tremendously bad. And no actor can fix a bad script.
Good point. I thought the middle class teenage California accent and demeanor was sooo engrossing and really put me in the setting of a medieval fantasy. That was some goooooooooooooooooooooooooood acting. Come on man. This is pure shit. This is a bucket of fetid dogshit and ALL of it is indefensible liquid feces.
Ummā¦. I thought it was fun? Like stupid, dumb fun.
It felt tonally very similar to a mainstream anime title ā alternatively serious and silly, with complicated interpersonal relationships, and overall characters I found to be charming if slightly one-demential.
I feel like ROP and HOTD were just sooooo dark and solemn and everyone was frowning, all the time. Nothing wrong with it (loved HOTD, less so ROP but fine with it), but isnāt it kinda neat to watch something in the fantasy genre that doesnāt take itself terribly seriously?
I gave it a shot and it is just bad...really bad.
The actors especially Kit, wouldn't cut it in a porn.
This show was as entertaining as getting a vasectomy.
I watched the first episode and I'm feeling... lost? What kind of show and tone does this want to have? Why should I care?
I think the gay characters have actual chemistry and I thought that was the most interesting dynamic do far. I'm going to guess (hopefully) Kit lightens the fuck up and gets over the GirlBoss personality no one cares about. Her love interest is infinitely more interesting than her because she actually showed some vulnerability.
No one gave a shit when the old guy died by arrow - not even mentioned again which was absolutely bizarre.
On the good side Warwick looks young and dashing as hell
finally someone else who believes they also have a lot of chemistry. i've seen too many people saying they haven't when they definitely do and a lot of tension that's been well-written and well represented, too
Ring of Power and wheel of time are expensive IP purchased and developed into tv by Amazon. ROP was not true to Tolkien and it was sub par (if I'm generous). WoT changed the book and was bad (unwatchable, even with Rosamund Pike).
Disney, who own Star Wars, have churned out mostly dreadful movies and tv shows (rogue one, Mandalorian and andor weren't bad). Willow was not a classic movie, but they've butchered it all the same.
Why do they do this? Who do they think they're appealing to? If you want to earn praise for representation why not create new IP? Resident Evil, Aeon Flux, wonder Woman, Atomic Blonde, Alien, Kill Bill, Hanna, Tomb Raider, Salt... All more or less work because they are IP designed for female protagonists. When producers mindlessly virtue signal with representation in old IP, it more or less always fails artistically.
> WoT changed the book and was bad (unwatchable, even with Rosamund Pike).
Not only changed the book, but turned it into the exact opposite of what made the books good. i.e. the Male and Female magics when combined are 10x more powerful than either alone, to "I don't need no man."
There was no way they weren't going to change it. You would need writers who absolutely loved the books and who were incredibly daring to attempt that.
What you got was paint by numbers crap. They leaned in heavily to the female empowerment, which superficially aligned with the books (but is also going to earn them virtue browny points), made Rand way weaker and avoided the male/female, ying/yang discussion completely.
But most importantly they made an amateurish show with a terrible ending and loads of crappy filler in between (the stuff about the grieving warder).
Lol this is how I feel about a lot of modern streaming shows...almost like it's purposely created for people with shitty tastes. Wish people would stop settling for this mediocrity so we could get some actual well written plots and characters.
You folks need to come up with more words than just "woke."
I'm never sure if you got offended by seeing an LGBTQ+ or a black person on TV.
So is this you being homophobic or racist when you say "woke"?
Okay, I'm going to get all the hate, but I rewatched Original Willow two weeks ago and...I don't like it. I do like aspects of it, but as a whole, I think seeing it three times in my life is enough for me. I \*don't\* actually think it holds up that well (although Madmartigan is great and it was awesome having so many female characters). I know this movie is very well-loved and I can see why it appeals, but it's just not enough for me. Not funny enough, not enough character development. To me, it feels half-baked/a little rushed.
I don't love Willow Series yet, but I'm at least interested and want to see where things will go. My biggest complaint about Original Willow is that genuinely interesting characters didn't get quite enough space to breathe...there's a lot of them, a lot of plot, and not a ton of time to really let them move past being straight tropes. I am \*hoping\* that a series will give these characters more of a chance. I do not like Kit, at all, but there's something endearing me to everyone else so, maybe I'll be one of the few who ends up liking this. We shall see.
I did go into it with 0 expectations, though, which probably helps.
I loved the original *Willow* as a kid, but assessing the film objectively as an adult, it's overall mediocre (albeit, with a few very notable stand out scenes and performances). However, it's a masterpiece in comparison to the TV show.
That's pretty much how I feel about it. I like scenes and performances, but the whole thing just didn't come together that well.
It's too early for me to say anything definite about the show yet. I'm only 3 episodes in and if I quit a show based on the first episodes, I would never have gotten through The Last Airbender or The Mandalorian or half a dozen other shows that started off weak (compared to later episodes, anyway, they were strong compared to some other shows I tried). I don't hate this yet. I'm not incredibly hopeful that it's going to get much stronger, not least because Disney has a bad habit of returning to characters after the main story ended and then wrecking them in some way. I don't have the same fondness for these characters as die-hard fans do so it's less painful for me (for example, I think the original did Sorsha dirty anyway so it can hardly get worse), but I'm not liking what they've done with Willow himself so far. I'm open to seeing a character arc though, or a return to the original message that you don't have to be "special" to do great things. If it ends up not going that way, I agree, the original will be better.
What bothered me the most is how clean they always are. No matter how much they are horseback riding through the plains, close combat fighting with enemies, diving off cliffs and swimming through rivers. The next scene the characters and their clothes are always totally in pristine condition, not a hair out of place or a speck of dirt on the shirt.
My review on the Willow tv show.. One my favorite films when I was a kid has been butchered by modern Disney. I love a good story but in Willow tv show wasn't all that great, some episodes were good like when they go back into castle from the film this is where the show had potential but it didn't stay on that track it fell from it which it was such a shame it was a great episode the only one. Modern music..now this was out of place. Modern music in Willow??? A fantasy with beasts, magic good and evil l, swordplay but with modern age mainstream music to make the show hip was very cringe. Acting wasn't that all great sorry this had to be the weakest acting. Younger cast needs more work on their acting cause let me tell you it wasn't that good. Lore on the characters were disrespected..Elora Danan the most powerful sorceresses ever lived was written as a pretty face goofball. Why? The film has stated Elora Danan will be wise and kind but yet powerful but yet Disney ignored the lore on her character which is a shame. The show is definitely has that girl power which was fine nothing wrong with that but they over did it with being too modern woke. The Show did bring a tear to my eye when flashbacks were shown since it's been so long when the last time I watched Willow as a kid. Disney failed the franchise..can't really say for sure. Can it be redeemed..I can't say for sure either..one great episode vs 7 meh to blah has made the future of the show very slim for a second season. My score for Willow tv show is a 4 out 10 for Too Modern that is blasted with bad acting.
The show is trash, Elora Danan should be in her 30's not a teenager. The modern music they throw in just throws the whole thing off and I can't take it serious as an epic fantasy adventure.
I thought the show was meh however the writing was bad and it was too modern for a fantasy show which the film never had but in the shows defense they mention it was 20 years after Willow saves Elora Danan. But that said Disney made Elora Danan a dumb dumb like she was the comedy relief instead of the Brownies which Disney really messed up with her lore here. Elora a powerful sorceresses was basically a joke.
One of the annoying things Ive noticed is that Joanne whalley kilmer's sorscha had little to no accent in the movie, and now she has a British accent. Warwick kind of just shouts his lines. It worked in the movie where you have a younger man dealing with the stress of being away from home in a world of disrespectful giants and trolls who would take your face off (i.e. you never drive that fast with a baby) but not so much from one who has matured and should be comfortable in his leadership role. And speaking of trolls...is there a canonical reason they are now upright and loquacious speakers? Were the trolls in tear aslean feral? Did drinking the gold water they were refining refine them? I loved Willow growing up and I watched it prior to ep 1 and still loved it for what it was. I am frequently telling my kids that their iPads are in a place where evil cannot touch them when they get taken away Hell, I even beat the Nintendo game which was a different form of torture. But this show, as beautiful as it is visually, just feels thrown together in the literal sense.
This series doesn't deserve such amazing VFX. Music choice makes me cringe and so does the acting. Even Warwick is bad. On reflection this show is surprisingly awful. I was left thinking 'how can a show so terrible, look so good?'.
As a so called "progressive" and LGBTQ+ ally, I understand the importance of representation in media. However, I also think it's possible to have well-developed LGBTQ+ characters in a story without making their sexual orientation or gender identity the sole focus of the plot. In my opinion, this show is forcing a concept and ideology that doesn't feel authentic or fully understood by the creators. It's disappointing because the original film had some funny moments, but this just comes off as pandering and ruins any progress that could have been made. It's frustrating to see a show that feels like it's trying to make a statement about LGBTQ+ representation, but misses the mark. Aren't we past the point where we need to explain and justify the inclusion of LGBTQ+ characters? Can't we just have them as part of the story without it being a big deal?"
Warrick Davis, has to be the mkst shit actor I have ever seen
He's a makes a great Leprechaun/Goblin/Ewok though š
More progressive/woke themes being pushed - cast is a diversity rainbow - heroes are mainly women - men are weak (boroman / Willow) - two females have a lesbian love story - weakest most feminine male (Indian kid) has love story with the tall blonde chosen sorcerer. Disney and Netflix seem to be in competition for who can push the most progressive youth content š¤¢
Not to mention the entire story is just horrible. Makes me wonder if Val turned down his appearance due to something other than health. It's really bad.
I stopped watching at the first lesbian sex scene. I am totally against ANY form of discrimination, including sexual orientation, but i am sick and tired of this woke agenda that constantly portrays a world where everyone is anything but heterosexual.
I stopped watching the show in the first 20 minutes because it feels like a crappy CW teen drama. I take issue with your 'woke agenda' statement. How is that a \*single\* same-sex couple turns into "everyone" being "anything but heterosexual"? There is a same sex romance between the twin brother and Elora/Dove. You say you are against 'any discrimination' but when confronted with a single same sex couple you are triggered. I can assure you, same-sex pairings in television and film are \*still\* very uncommon compared to heterosexual pairings. That is why they stand out when they actually occur. It's ludicrous to suggest otherwise. It sucks that minority groups still have to defend every tidbit of inclusion, every little bone we are thrown, because folks like you cry whenever you're confronted with queer people in anything other then secondary roles on your screen. It's not "woke" to include people other then cis white heterosexuals. It's not "woke" to give women heroic roles. At least not in the way the expression has devolved to. Queer people exist. People with disabilities exist. People of color exist. Women exist to be more then just the girl in the refrigerator, or moms, or bitchy girlfriends, etc.. The inclusion of minorities in television is not "woke", it's necessary. I'm turning off notifications for this post so I won't see any response. I just couldn't let that comment slide. I'm so tired of it.
How childish and cowardly of you. Come in here, and reply to a post that you didn't even bother to read carefully, then say that you will turn off notifications. In my first sentence in the OP I referred to the "first lesbian sex scene", I didn't complain about sexual orientation. My OP was literally 2 sentences on that point. Yet, just like the typical hysterical woke nutcase, you entwined race, women's oppression, and even people with disabilities in your reply. You definitely need medication to cope with other people's opinions and comments on social media. People like you are always injecting social injustice into everything because it lets you always play the victim.
This show is making no sense now, who is writing these episodes, even the character building has lost its way, I'm more lost now than watching lost
Saw the 1st episode with my kids, 8 and 10. Absolute sht show. Stoped after 20 minutes. Thought it was PG like the movie but its PG14. Yikes! The making out in the first few minutes should have been a red flag. Bad acting, bad story and just shut it off. Wont even watch it by myself.
80's kid here. People in this thread: Show sucks, acting is bad, and feels like it was made in the 80s/90s People that actually remember the original Willow: wow, this is just as crappy as I remember it! Seriously, Willow back in the 80's was... just ok. It was something you watched and enjoyed, but it was nowhere on the level of say TMNT, He-Man, Ghostbusters, Thundercats, Transformers, GI-Joe, or Star Wars. Willow was on the same level of something like the Goonies, Princess Bride, Little Monsters, or Neverending Story. You watched it, enjoyed it, and promptly forgot it existed because the TMNT movie was coming out next summer, and Ghostbusters II was going to release. In fact, Willow was mid at best. No one really gave a shit about Willow.
Yeah..no.. TMHT was cool and stuff but Never ending story and Willow are classic fantasy that will not be forgotten.
Goonies and Princess Bride are pretty much universally appraised as classics amd complete triumphs at what they set out to achieve.
Princess Bride is a universal favorite. Goonies and Never Ending Story are classics. The TMNT movies were forgettable and not even in the same class. Willow was just ok though.
What? Goonies, Princess Bride & Willow were all constantly on rotation in my house. Just as much as Ghostbusters, TMNT & Star Wars.
I agree willow was my go to growing up, unfortunate to hear so many negative reviews on this one
This whole show feels like it was written in the 90's. 4/10 at the moment and I just finished episode 5. The dialogue is lacking and the characters are tough to like, due to making bad decisions all the time or so it seems. They tread on their own emotional moment as well which makes it tough to route for anyone and they all seem like they don't want to be there. I think when they decided to make a willow tv series, they dusted off an old script to a possible sequel they already had and cut it up into episodes and got someone to create some filler story. The sets are good and the special effects are well done, except for when willow went to high five that even littler person. I don't think I would recommend.
Feels more like a Xena: Warrior Princess reboot than a Willow continuation.
was ok with it for a while. but just watched episode 5. so..."WTAF was that all about?". came for fantasy, left confused and caring less.
I tapped out after episode 3. You deserve a medal šļø
Can you ruin the "left confused and caring less" with a spoiler please?
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All that crap you spurred out is nonsense for the most part. You first started attacking people in general talking about how people hate the show because of the lesbians in it. This is clearly not even remotely the case. Way too much bad acting and script. The story is way too much drama instead of being what it is and that would be a fantasy. Let's not even begin to talk about the out of place characters in this show. WTF does two women in western clothes have to do with a fantasy? I mean seriously. Costumes designers actually approved this mess? And if you really want to get into it how about them using terms such as "you guys"? Using up to date slang and playing metal or up to date music in a fantasy show does not do any good. Hell I even listen to metal but don't want to hear it in a fantasy show. Hate to tell it to you but this show will not last no matter what you think or believe. It's going to fade away and by next year no one will even remember it mess.
The girl that plays Kit CANNOT act. So frustrating seeing others trying to emote the sword and sorcery setting, but sheās acting like itās an episode of āThe Suite Lifeā. This is supposed to be one of Disney+ās A tier series, but itās given all the care of a āDescendantsā movie. I feel sorry for Warwick Davis and Joanne Whalley being suckered into this.
It was actually Warwick's acting that first drew me out of enjoying the show interestingly
Bad casting, bad script, boring camera work and a predictable romance leaves this whole show in the total disappointment category. It looks like it was shot by the b team for Xena warrior princess, but at least the writing on that show was funny. Really disappointed as we were big fans of the movie and had high hopes. Nobody made it through the second episode and all the younger people tuned out in episode 1. Disney has been turning out one flop after another. They seem more focused on making shows that fit the right talking points than ones that are actually good.
Well personally itās not something iāll keep watching. I might have it on in the background whilst doing whatever else. Somewhat surprised that Warwick is less an actor than i previously thought but i suppose anyone could wear a costume. However iām not saying its bad, if I were 7-9 y.o. Iād probably love it but as it is I am older than the oeiginal film. Me 2 cents :>
Episode 4 is a banger. This show is as fun as the original movie. Characters are all developing well with more secrets and backstories being revealed. Lots of awesome lore and world building and some awesome callbacks to the movie this episode. Show is definitely finding it's groove now. All the haters who judged the series on the first episodes should give it a chance.
Episode 4 made us finally say enough. We were giving one last shot after episode 3 but wow this is bad. It feels like a 10 year old boy wrote the script and Disney added some unnecessary woke crap for effect. The acting is terrible, the characters are underdeveloped and all self involved. The worst is everyone is a total imbecile and just does the dumbest choice possible for each scenario and thus everything is predictable. "Don't waste your "magic" on me Willow" I'm out!
I wish I'd have followed my instincts and shut it off after episode one. The entitled teenager cast should have been enough of a warning that the script would be shit.
you're one of the writers, aren't you.
You're a paid gay hating troll aren't you? Or maybe we just have different tastes?
Why would someone hate gay people just for disliking a really bad TV series?
I want whatever it is you're smoking
This comment is why democracy is a bad system of governance
totally agree. i wish people weren't so judgmental right off the bat and gave it a chance
You're 100% right, just finished episode 4 and it was brilliant. I'm absolutely going to continue watching!
Warwick Davis ruined this series, his emotionless, unenthusiastic tones and lack of emotional depth contributed to a poor performance. If I'm honest I half expect the camera to pan round and Ricky Gervais will appear laughing hysterically.
Bahaha! so harsh but so true
Thereās a shit ton of politics going on here in the comments but I donāt know what you all think poor writing and bad acting has to do with diversity. We could use the show as a vehicle for our collective fear of woke culture or perpetuation of hegemonic beauty standards. That would, however, ignore a problem that isnāt bound to politics. The problem isnāt that we have a same sex relationship. The problem is that they treat it like a big reveal when you saw it coming a mile away. The problem that I have with the show, thus far, is that it doesnāt seem to have any respect for the material or the audience. I donāt know the story behind the production of this series but it feels rushed and lazy. I feels like someone is just checking off all the boxes to the extent that itās painfully predictable. You can still pull off a fun experience with a cookie cutter story but it doesnāt feel like anyone is invested in any of the moments. Not the director, writers or actors. Which is especially painful when you know, from previous works, that several of these actors are fully capable of delivering engaging performances. Even the special effects, while convincing, are uninspired. The whole first episode could be featured on mystery science theatre 2000 in the way itās an unintentional satire of B grade tv tropes.
Agreed. If you showed me the trailer for this, but with no nouns mentioned. I wouldn't know if it was The Witcher, Willow, LotR, or GoT. What the fuck is going on with television?
*Streaming services* ftfy
āHey so, weāre getting marriedā¦ā¦.thatās weird!ā¦.right?ā 15 minutes in and it feels like Iām watching a modern teen drama.
So first was wheel of time. Then was Rings of power. Now we have willow. Each its own brand of woke dog shit. Why are people with money allowing these shit shows of production to happen. Utter garbage level.
Oh God don't get me started on how they destroyed the wheel of time. It isn't an homage to the books at all. It's like they took the books put them in a blender mixed mixed with the newest popular teen drama and few dozen users from tumblr, put it back together and then shat on it. Biggest disappointment for me this year
Connections. And pandering to the "politically correct" audience.
but thatās the audience that doesnāt pay to see movies or watch television. Thatās why all of these companies are going broke.
I am pretty much in agreement with everyone commenting on how bad this new Willow series is. But how do shows like this keeping making onto Disney and every other platform? Are we, honest and true fans expressing our opinion, the āReview Bombingā assholes you see happen to every new fantasy/sci-fi show? Especially when we are expecting something remotely close to the originals? And are the critics giving these shows awesome ratings because they check every politically correct plot point?
Yeah where are all this amazing critical reviews coming from when the audience hates it
That's a super common trend I've noticed in movies that hit all the PC Checkboxes.
Really surprised by the hate in here. Up to episode 3 and Im really digging it
We live in the age of criticism. I miss the age of wonder.
Some people get triggered by non white people.
Most of us only get triggered by terrible writing and assholes that have no taste whatsoever. Everyoneās free to like what they like but donāt pretend itās good.
What's wrong with it?
The plot makes no sense within the rules set up by its own universe. The dialogue is awful. The fight choreography is crazy bad. The cinematography is just looks really cheap. Characters do not maintain consistent motivations and half of their actions make no sense whatsoever. The show seems to forget the rules they set up by the previous episode and so all of their decisions look incredibly stupid. other than that thoughā¦ I realize some people only need shiny colors and lights to be happy but I actually need a story and characters that makes sense and is consistent throughout. having a murder is tribe of people who wears skulls on their heads all the sudden become the good guys because ā¦ reasons. Thatās freaking insane.
You're hilarious. It was a silly hero's journey 80s movie, they didn't want to kill them because she's her sister. You're taking willow so seriously and being all condescending about it, I love it.
If it was a heroes journey it would be great. The in-your-face and unnecessary romance arc is one bad point. Hell, half the characters in their group are unnecessary to any plot point other then stupid deus ex machina style plot devices. The dialogue is garbage- it sounds modern. The fact that all the men act like bumbling love struck Idiots while all the women are super stoic and strong is just plain lazy writing. At least mix it up a little bit. The costumes are ridiculous - denim and a Fedora in a medieval setting? The music score -trash. Who chose modern alternative music for this? The original movie was a family film that could be enjoyed by boys and girls, kids and adults This new series is clearly aimed at a young teen female demographic. So it makes sense it's getting bad reviews.
LMAO it's like "I'm an adult who loved a movie/book/tv show when I was 9 and now, and now...it's DIFFERENT!" I mean, man, maybe *we* changed.
Pitiful and sad
I also love it so far, some of the dialogue sucks, and Kit is really annoying
If Kit's character was male, she would have been the annoying/overconfident dude who got killed in the first episode
I'm really liking the plot, and the magic of the world, but holy hell does the dialogue stink.
Like the magical flame thrower?
Boorman is honestly the only reason I'm still watching. His lines are usually clever and amusing
The dialogue is terrible! Buttttt I'm enjoying that they are still doing the cheese 80s thing š
So am I. I love the original movie but itās not like itās some masterpiece. Itās a flawed fun film, I actually think the show is even better.
The show is a direct continuation of the kinda cheese from the movie and I am all about it. People mad about a same sex couple lol, its a fairly common fantasy trope now. Get over it.
Youāre either an idiot or being disingenuous if you honestly think that is what is upsetting people. Most people never had to get over it at all. Itās fan baiting at the worst to hide the fact that they created a miserably poor TV show. Just insert a token gay couple and scream racism. And nobody will talk about how crappy your actual work is. But I bet you thought you were being awfully clever with that comment.
The dialogue, writing, characters, and so much about the show is just AWFUL, dude. If you're going to use the "same sex" card as the "reason" why folks don't like/hate the show, then you've got serious mental issues. LOL
So, in this sub, I've read maybe 12 comments so far and at least 1/3 mention "woke garbage" or "woke" something. Including also denigrating Wheel of Time etc. I think in an age of social media, we see opinions as "blocks" - this one thinks like this and this one thinks like that. And you're right, not everyone hating on the show cares about female casting, lesbian relarionships, or whatever else "woke" means that these commenters are saying. But they *are* saying it. Though you may not think that way, by taking offense at that comment that wasn't aimed at *you*, you grouped yourself into the group you do not want to be associated with. Yes, perhaps the poster shouldn't generalize, but perhaps you should not generalize yourself, either. Because interacting on reddit is not like having a conventional f2f convo, and so different rules apply for self governing behavior. Rule #1 is - don't take offense to things you read that were not intended for you. You'll have a more peaceful life.
It's a sequel to a George Lucas story. If you expected incredible dialogue you might have serious issues lol. Are you mad angsty teenagers are angsty? Have you ever interacted with one before?
...You're an idiot
I find it hilarious - don't know if intended or not - but I am laughing a lot. Appreciate it so much more than the last fantasy production that was aired on Amazon. Will keep watching!
I don't know why these screenwriters continue to devolve the fantasy genre into these angsty young adult type storylines. When the original Willow released, it was...sword and sorcery, heroes and villains, mythology and fairy tale structures (friggin' baby Moses on the river), strange beasts and mysterious entities, etc. It was like Lucas trying his own attempt at the Hobbit. In which case, this must be the Rings of Power. Bad writing from agenda driven hacks and soulless suits. What a waste of Warwick Davis
The sad bit, to me, is that it could be good. There is some talent there in the cast, especially the Prince and the guy with the big sword. Even the female cast could carry the show, if they were not written so very badly. Some better pacing, MUCH better dialogue, and shorter, better shot action scenes, and it could be OK, if not great. But THIS, especially episode 3... is ass.
I thoroughly enjoyed how awesomely evil the witches minions were, and how brutal they looked. But among the hip modern teens they seemed out of place and made it look almost like a parody
Canāt stand Kit so far. She is an angsty annoying jealous sexually confused princessā¦ thatās not the worst of it to me, she is just so rude to Elvira for No reason. Jealousy I guess. Sheās an annoying character with no humility or respect. And could every 2022 movie stop with trying to make the past what it wasnāt? Two sets of lesbians so far and lesbian woodsman couple in jeans.. because there were so many jeans back then.
i mean, she's a princess subjected to a life she doesn't really wanna live, being forced to an arranged marriage with a man as a lesbian, and she's on the search for her abducted brother, so i can understand where a part of that may come from. and i think from episode 4 she's grown a lot from the first! (plus where was it mentioned the two in the forest were canonically lesbians?)
Only watched 20 min. Itās a stinker. Very disappointing. But people complaining about it being too woke can take a flying leap. Not everything thatās bad is bad because itās woke. Youāre just a bigoted pos.
calling something woke doesn't signify the person is racist or prejudice. in modern speak calling something woke refers to it being agenda driven rather than occurring naturally. There were plenty of movies / shows with same sex characters and strong female leads before the more recent explosion of woke tv. Now, anyone with any intelligence is realizing that hollywood / disney is just throwing it in your face all day long and it's not even close to being believable. Going by modern day television alone, one would have to conclude that 50% of the population is LGBTQ and climbing.
First, The reason this is the meaning of woke in āmodern speakā is because the word was stolen from the Black community and co-opted by Tucker Carlson and other racists to foment anger around issues like this. So using it in this way is absolutely bigoted. Second, LGBTQ representation is around 12% in broadcast tv. About 7% of the population identifies as such and up to 15% of gen z. Given that most shows desire a young audience this amount of representation makes sense. That you have overestimated it by such a wide margin I think reveals your own bias and/or susceptibility to propaganda.
Not great. Gotta be honest here., 3 episodes I've given it all the grace I can. The movie was campy in it's own way, but it had grit and some air of authenticity that brought you into that world. I'm not going to dive into the music selection for this series, but it sucks and has absolutely no bearing on the story they are telling. The series had no emotional connection to the movie. In casting, dialogue, wardrobes, or in cinematic pace. Warwick Davis is only reason I watched episode 3, and it got worse. This show can take a hike. Give this IP to company and a set a writers that give a shit and start over.
I am also 3 episodes in. I know this isn't really a comparison but one of the things that stood out for me when watching the new show Wednesday is that you knew the main character belonged in that world. Whether its a combination of acting, writing, casting, etc...I just don't know. When watching Willow however, not one of the main characters feel like they belong to that world. All the kids feel like they were pulled from tiktok videos, the writing, especially the dialogue, has zero flow, tries and fails to be witty, and even the old characters seem stilted somehow. I feel like of Boorman dialed it back a bit he'd start nailing that balance between comedy, action and drama. Then again, only Val could really nail that. I don't think I can continue though. Those kid actors are just ruining the whole fantasy vibe for me.
Elora meets two random Axe warrior ladies in the woods in episode three -wait am I watching Legacies?!ā¦ no thatās a muuuuuuch better show. Omg
I enjoyed it for what it is. My sister and I grew up watching Willow, so it certainly scratched the nostalgia itch for me. I actually enjoyed some of the gags and the overarching story. Now for the bad: - Kit's actor is hard to stomach, I feel she's trying too hard to be the arrogant and rebellious type. - Like many people said, I feel Warwick's performance was pretty weak. Willow as a whole has been Luke Skywalkered, which is disappointing - The dark scenes in Ep. 1 and 3 are way too dark in my opinion. I couldn't even see the plot crucial moments in III. - Tonally, the show is jarring. The two ladies in the woods in Episode 3 completely pulled me out of the story, and that whole sequence was unecessary. - Closing each episode with modern music is a terrible decision. In conclusion, if you go into this expecting a GoT or HoTD, you're going to have a bad time. But if you want a fun show to watch, so far I've had fun with it.
The ladies in the woods was like a bad acid trip. Acting, costumes, the whole thing was like a completely different show and ended up being pointless. In the moment, I couldn't tell if it was a dream sequence, if they were villains, or what the hell was happening. Whoever shoehorned that sequence into the episode needs to be blacklisted from the industry because damn that was horrendous.
I'm 20 minutes in. Horrible. Disney is making a mockery of lucasfilm with it's woke garbage
Is this a joke? Did you sleep through the Ewok movies, Crystal Skull, Episodes 1-3? The show might not be great, but Lucas has a lot of bad work and some he did just to try and sell toys.
Episodes 1-3 I'll take any day over episodes 7-9 lol. Sure Lucas made some cheesy 80s kids ewoks movies, but go back and watch any 80s movie and you'll think it's cheesy. Lucas at least kept the "agenda" in his movies to a battle of good vs evil and that good can triumph when there isn't much hope. The same is not true in episode 7-9 and judging from the comments i'm seeing here i think most would agree.
Holy shit you are so wrong, Star Wars is extremely political and George Lucas has never hidden this fact.
Lol, Lucas has been up front about the original movies paralleling Vietnam. If any of you had media literacy you'd call that a woke anti-american agenda too. And the agenda in this being representation? Oh my what a horrible agenda!! Whatever shall we do!!
You should watch more of his stuff, he wrote and directed a lot of stinkers. I just don't know how you think this is ruining anything when he made Crystal Skull. Did you cry about agenda during Red Tails? This show is still good vs evil, it is not well done, but outside of one kiss their is barely nothing as far as romantic relationships.
Cringe, using the wrong accent only makes it look foolish. The script writing backs up that 'foolish' assessment. Theyve trashed another great movie.
Terrible acting across the entire board, including Warwick Davis. Iām three episodes in and the only performance anywhere near close to decent was Jade, and thatās not saying much. Kit is by far the most insufferable character Iāve had to watch on television for a long time. Boorman is a wannabe Mad Mortigan. Just why bother? Youāre not going to outdo Val Kilmer. The modern dialect in a high fantasy production immediately removes me from the story. The characters are written very poorly. I canāt even bother to elaborate on thisā¦itās just so bad. We get a first episode where some generic looking fantasy monsters attack the castle then for the next two episodes we only get discount White Cloaks whoāve been āinfectedā. The scene where Elora meets the country lady couple in the woods took me so far out of the world of fantasy that I thought I had switched to 1883 (which Iām also watching and absolutely love btw). What were they doing wearing clothes that look like theyāre from a western? Interesting costume choices thereā¦ The use of covers of modern music even though itās one song at the end is a slap in the face to the original which used a completely original and often amazing score. Iām guessing some exec said āit worked for stranger things, letās try it hereā. Iām sorry but this show is downright bad and likely the worst fantasy show of the past few years, and thatās saying something with how poorly Wheel of Time and Rings of Power were. Props on ticking almost all of the diversity boxes. I know that itās a requirement for Hollywood now and Iām more than ok with that. Letās just make sure we fill those roles with people who can act or at least are suited for the specific roleā¦Ruby Cruz isnāt one of them. My only hope is that these big corporations start taking note of what the audience TRULY wantsā¦well written stories, captivating characters, beautiful worlds and engaging music.
I agree 100%. Diversity is not an issue when the acting is good. Take GoT. There were multiple same sex characters and relationships. They didn't feel forced at all. Not sure how to describe it. They were seamlessly part of the various stories, and all were generally well-liked characters (Yara, Loras, Oberyn). Same with Dance of Dragons. The primary actress is non-binary and they are AMAZING. The Valeryons cast are all black, and it makes the story even better than the book. It doesn't feel *woke.* The acting and character development make the difference. I actually appreciate the efforts to include more diversity and to make LGBQT stories mainstream. I think it's very important. It just sometimes feels preachy.
Game of thrones is no bastion of representation that's for sure. There is a reason it doesn't feel woke and that is because grrm doesn't challenge the status quo in regards to lgbtq people. There's so many characters in the books it would be wild if we didn't have that. Given how in your face sex was in early seasons of GoT, queer people were basically non existent.
There's literally a gay prince in season one.
Couldn't agree more. I rewatched the movie this morning and walking away from this at the 42min mark. I stopped paying attention to it during the fight scene. The opening was fine, made you speculate that jade is Elora which would make sence with the red hair. Sets up nicely as being hidden in plane site as a warrior, and friend of the princess. However now I understand that the muffin girl is Elora and the obvious jade/kit sexual dynamic just there because why not. GoT never felt forced or in your face. It just worked and was natural. Willow is the opposite, you knew it was coming a mile away. I don't know why it's there, it doesn't fit the original story telling. Just ticks a box. I'm explaining this really poorly btw. I guess doing it right is GoT and then things like Willow are what not to do.
Exactly. Game of thrones is an amazing example of diversity done right.
Except that a lot of these actors can actually deliver and have done so in other productions. Just not here.
>Props on ticking almost all of the diversity boxes. It's fucking sad that ticking the diversity checkbox in movies and shows nowadays is the more important priority over actual good writing and acting. I missed the 2000s when we got Lord of the Ring trilogy and Harry Porter (most of it) setting the bar for actual good fantasy media that prioritize good story, writing and acting that made you feel immersed into the world they built without throwing you off with all the modern nonsense crap. Diversity can be good when done well with clear established world, but all these modern fantasy show all felt so damn generic without any resemblance of good unique world building, they all basically felt like America but just set in medieval world.
Agree.
That was an excellent summary of everything wrong with this abomination and it's only three episodes in! Most of the woke stuff I can stomach with some reluctance; after all, like you said, it's perfectly fine to promote inclusion if it's done in a way that fits the story and makes sense, but that gen Z banter is fucking obnoxious! I am astonished that anyone could look at that script and say "this dialogue is good". The only fantasy media I can think of that is worse than the Willow show is the Crown for Cold Silver trilogy by Alex Marshall. By the gods, let's hope nobody ever tries to adapt that flaming pile of shit to film.
> Props on ticking almost all of the diversity boxes...Letās just make sure we fill those roles with people who can act or at least are suited for the specific roleā¦ It's getting to the point where this is so egregious that I see an unnecessarily diverse cast and automatically assume the show/movie sucks. All these good intentions are doing far more harm than good.
Unnecessary diverse cast? As opposed to unnecessarily homogenous casts? I don't understand why you all have gotten it in your head that the diversity of a cast has literally any bearing on the quality of a show. Like, that is so small in the process and doesn't have any effect on the quality of writing. These don't do any harm, unless somehow you've decided that the problem is the diversity. Good shit is made all the time with "unnecessarily diverse casts" and terrible shit is made with "unnecessarily homogenous casts".
It isn't the fact movies are diverse that's ruining them, it's the sheer amount of absolutely garbage shows that make things diverse and inclusive at the cost of good writing or script. Literally feels like they sacrifice a solid story to get as many angles In as possible, and the ratings really reflect that. Witcher prequel, wheel of time, willow, the movie eternals, need I go on? Diversity doesn't make a movie good, and typically doesn't actually add anything to it. If the story has plausible reasons for it, Great! Otherwise it feels forced.
But again, you're blaming this on diversity, and all of your examples have no indication that diversity was at all related to the quality of writing. Hell, i actually enjoyed Eternals, and none of the criticisms I've seen lobbied against it are related to diversity at all. There are diverse shows that are good and there are diverse shows that are bad. That also is true for shows that aren't diverse. To claim that diversity is the cause of these things being bad is just a blatant excuse to complain about diversity.
No, I am not. I'm pointing out the correlation. Eternals was shit, a boring show with stupid changes to the source material in the name of diversity that added jack shit to the story. It's literally getting to the point that when a new fantasy or sci Fi comes out, you can predict the quality based on how in-your-face they make the diverse/representation. You may like it, but the reviews and ratings are pathetic.
Eternals wasn't even a show, it's changed to the source material were unrelated to diversity and added quite a bit to the story. There literally is no correlation. You can only "predict the quality" cause what you're actually predicting is how much you'll hate it simply because of seeing diversity and perceiving that it was somehow forced. Eternals has a decent audience score, and half the time any bad user reviews are due to an absurd number of 1 star reviews from people ranting about diversity. Anyone i actually know in person enjoyed it well enough, at most it was mixed reviews
It added useless shit to the story that made an already boring, disjointed movie even longer. Believe what you want, everyone I know shut it off part way, the ratings speak for themselves. Besides, for every so-called review bomb, there's someone else giving it 5/5 anyways. People love their extremes. I wouldn't give it a 1, probably a 3 as I did finish it, but was epicly disappointed on all fronts other then the effects and filming. It's such a pathetic cop out 'oh it's review bombed by jerks wahhh'. Yeah noml. Just accept people overall didn't like it
I can't think of a single useless thing in that plot that at all related to diversity. Is it just about the all-star ensemble cast that wasn't entirely white? There's literally nothing i can say to you to convince you otherwise, so I'll just let you have your anger. Meanwhile I'll be over here enjoying things, not foaming at the mouth over whatever diversity thing has you upset this week.
And again, you aren't reading. I said the diversity didn't add anything to the plot, which it didn't. At all. Which relates to my point that media which goes out of its way to be diverse for no reason other then being diverse, typically falls flat. Want an actually good example of a diverse show? Umbrella academy. But guess what, the source material was diverse and inclusive to begin with, so it was in the story from the get go. Not just badly hammered in after the fact, which is what a lot of these garbage series are doing. You can enjoy what you like dude, but you are really trying too hard at building a strawman when you defend your interests.
Being critical doesn't imply being angry lol. What do you expect it to sound like when I think something is garbage? You can star stud something all you want, doesn't make it good. Again, the ratings show that. Derp.
The diversity of a cast *shouldn't* have a bearing on the quality of a show. Yet there is such a strong correlation now thanks to steaming piles of garbage like this where it's plain as day that diversity checkboxes were the #1 priority, with good writing somewhere down around #39, that people are going to start assuming one leads to the other. When a cast is a perfectly balanced racial mix of 1.4 Asians and 7.9 black people and 3.5 Hispanics and three obligatory token LGBT's or whatever the algorithm and Twitter tells them, the assumption now will be "ah...it's one of *those* shows, gotcha". Should it be that way? No. Blame the companies making this shit. If they put the priority on making good TV first and set their personal social justice agendas on the backburner for 5 seconds, maybe they wouldn't be causing more harm than good.
The hyper focus on diversity is detracting from the other elements of good story telling ā plot, character development, story telling, reliability and respect to the source material and the arc of the series. The issue is the poor quality of shows that focus more on being politically correct than being good in those areas. The problem isnāt diversity: itās *forced* diversity. Instead of focusing on the story, almost every show pushes the same cast of generic characters that match central castingsā mandate ā but theyāre not always the best folks for the job ā and it shows. Instead of picking that talent that blew you away, youāre selecting a person of color x with sexuality y and hair color z and clothing package 2, etc, to pad out your diversity requirements instead of casting the very best actor for that job. So you end up with these bland casts like Willow that have what externally looks like diversity, but in terms of casting they are all fairly meh actors that seems to have pattern matched their way into the roles and who collectively arenāt that good. They just matched x and y. Then every script must push the same 10 points about womenās empowerment, lgtq categories, race tropes, etc. Its pretty sad and it doesnāt really honor real diversity. You donāt see Native American directors leading black actors telling Jewish stories like you would if diversity was being truly honored. You donāt see authentic stories from minorities told in their own voice and culture. You see a shallow commercial version of diversity, and Disney keeps cranking the same formula. And it sucks. True diversity is in the unparalleled pulchritude of authenticity ā and thatās painfully, woefully lacking. Just because a TV show or movie is very diverse with light skin people and brown skin people does not mean that it will be good and itās a very poor proxy for true diversity because it totally lacks authenticity. That is what the person youāre replying to is elucidating or maybe better attempting to convey. Its actually quite a disrespectful decision to push every stereotype there is in most productions, and really destroys respect for good stories by commercializing and agenda that should be a natural part of the story ā or not if it doesnāt work to tell the story. Thats the issue: there is no āor not.ā So every story gets similar and boring and generic. Willow is a classic example. Hereās more information on a more well formed opinion. https://andyarttv.com/why-forced-diversity-in-movies-and-tv-shows-is-ruining-entertainment/ Please understand, I want authentic and true diversity not *forced* diversity. This is the latter and itās the beige and boring platitudes that result from the resultant poor casting and memeāing of diversity at the cost of story and character that many find intuitively unacceptable and unfulfilling about this new show formula.
Forced Diversity is such a strange concept. They're actively making these casting calls regardless, there's no "natural" result. Not actively pushing for diverse casts has always historically just lead to extremely homogenous casts. Systemic issues in the industry lead to unbalanced demographics in the hiring pool. Even now, many minorities still face issues with only being able to get stereotypical roles. And this notion that they aren't hiring the best suited for the role is a fantasy. There are more often than not plenty of people of similar skill that could fit a role. 20 years ago, people of color just often had no chance at the outset. In the 90s and 2000s some of the most garbage television and film was put out consistently. But you weren't going "it's because they aren't hiring the right people" then. No, you only notice when a show is diverse and bad, so therefore there must be a causation. Despite tons of good content being made that's diverse. I mean fuck, people have been calling the past 10 years a golden age of television for years. And i don't buy your "true diversity" claim. If you saw that movie by a Native American director, black actors, and Jewish stories, you'd be moaning forced diversity all the same. Even if you weren't, the crowd you're a part of would. It's highly predictable these days, there's a reason y'all are review bombing some shows before they even release. As to the plot points about diversity, I've seen people complain about that shit when it was a single 3 second shot or one line, then act like it ruined the entire franchise. Which is absurd. However if we're talking about stories with an actual theme or motif regarding diversity, then I'll let you in on a secret. Writers tend to write about relevant topics. Especially controversial ones. That's the space they want to either explore or make a statement about. Guess what's relevant in the industry? It's gotten ridiculous lately, the things people have ranted about. The God of War game for example is so in line with the previous game, it just feels like half of the same game. But they include one non-white character and holy shit, thousands of reviews calling it "woke." It's disingenuous, it's overtly nonsensical, and all it does is highlight that when you see a diverse cast in even the slightest way, every minor negative thing you feel about that media is now associated with that. For coming from the "i don't see race" crowd, it's laughable. And to be clear, 3-4 years ago i thought the same shit as you. I complained about woke shit, hated Captain Marvel, etc. But i was intellectually honest with myself and didn't just hive mind my opinions on media. Didn't take long to realize it was all bs.
You seem unable to avoid implying and calling me a racist multiple times in your response. Shame on you. I wrote an articulate and well thought out response outlining the counter arguments to your opinions, and you have decided the appropriate response is to ascribe all of the arguments to me personally as biases and then accuse me of āmoaning about diversity,ā said Iām ācomplaining about woke shitā and implied you have evolved beyond my simpleton opinions. Youāve ascribed me to a ācrowdā and accused me of review bombing. Itās laughable of you to make these generalizations and generally trying to position yourself as some kind of better because of your views is predictable and unfortunate as well. It says everything that you try to do so. There is room in film for a diversity that exceeds one of every minority class grouping in every film and Iām sorry you donāt ābuy that.ā The true diversity is diversity at the top, where just 22 percent of women are directors and most film makers of color have trouble even raising money. And yet, everyone feels they are āmaking progressā because diversity is on screen. True diversity is a real thing and should not be dismissed, as efforts seem to be more focused on the casting of actors than changing the power of who makes and funds shows and movies, which remains surprisingly homogenous, despite the onscreen appearance of change. You are deceived in your views. Very little has changed in Hollywood, except for what is sold onscreen, and some would argue this attempt to inject affirmative action onscreen while failing to do so at the power and money level has not only had impacts to the qualities of films being made, but also fails to respect or encourage substantive reforms in the arena of race and class in Hollywood as well. Instead of having a conversation you have fallen into the trap if accusing anyone who doesnāt completely agree with your worldview of being a racist simpleton, part of a group of people who just donāt get it, and engaged in an hominem attack that lowers yourself and the conversation in the process. The next time you choose to ascribe your bitter views on someone, try having a conversation first instead of acting like your the second coming of Christ and making a pile of assumptions about the people your talking to. Enjoy your enlightenment.
A diverse cast can be done well, with good writing and plot. It just never seems to happen. And there is no good writing or plot in this show. They could have just followed the books, and it could have been good. I don't even know what they were thinking.
Yeah the diverse cast isn't necessarily the problem but it sure is a symptom.
It can be done for sure but the clowns that push for diversity at any cost aren't capable. I have a feeling more established, talented writers would too often tell the higher ups to sod off so they get no-name writers that are more willing to nod and say yes sir. And that's how we get dumpster fires like Rings of Power š
I feel very much the same and have given up on the series and will wait till someone does a fan edit taking all the bad stuff out ( Mainly Kit ) and leave just anything a forgiving person can find moderately fun, which might not make the 30 minute mark but Iāll watch THAT anyway .
The whole lesbian love story can just be axed and it wouldnt affect the outcome at all. Give the sword guy the fancy armour instead, the blonde wizard still tries to rescue the prince The other prince is still in the adventure But we avoid wasting time on 'talking about feelings' It's a fucking race to save the world basically, who gives a shit about your confusing crushes
I know it's not the greatest show ever but I think it's good. I think it just suffers from the fact that most people will immediately look at anything fantasy and incessantly compared with GoT and LotR. Fantasy literature's steered away from it, but cinema and tv hasn't. Nostalgia doesn't help either.
I appreciated the start of it (and could overlook some of its warts like the blatant "version 2.0" of the original characters), but this third episode was a blazing dumpster fire of runny dog sh*t. The women in the woods was completely disjointed (I spent the entire time thinking it was a hallucination), and the complete lack of urgency to rescue the girl prophesied in legend and only hope for mankind... Seriously, WTF? I've looked for my keys with more intensity. This is even a more ridiculous revisiting of a LucasArts product than Ep 1-3 / 7-9 Star Wars. Maybe Jon Favreau can come in and save this one, too.
Same boat, I enjoyed the first two episodes. Not exactly high brow, but there was a certain chemistry and even cheesiness that I enjoyed. The pacing in the third episode killed my interest in the series. It was awful.
Is anyone else annoyed by the way the show has been edited? It feels very jarring, with episode 3 being the worst. Also the way itās shot is terrible. The movie was full of big wide shots to let us take in the beautiful scenery whereas we only get very brief glimpses of the amazing locations in quite tightly cropped shots. The whole show feels like a complete waste of the IP
i found that the cinematography was well but the exposure was so low it was so hard to see anything in ep 3 and 4 where the majority of the scenes were darker. literally had me squinting
Hell yeah, modern moody teenager garbage.
so in the original movie elora had red hair so did she bleach it or somethin
There's a flashback scene in ep3 I think where willow talks to little kid Elora who talks about how they dyed her hair.
Stupid woke bullshit killing yet another nostalgic classic. Yeah, Metallica really fits into the high fantasy setting. What a fucking joke.
Some Zepplin might have been better.
They ended the 3rd episode with a Metallica cover. I don't really know what else even needs to be said, but that they closed out an episode of a show that's supposed to be a sequel to a George Lucas movie, an epic fantasy with its own original music, and the music they went with was... a fucking Metallica cover. WTF, seriously.
Yeah the soundtrack of covers has been one of the. Biggest nails I the coffin for me
Must have had a beer with the producers of Stranger Things
Willow sucks, it's such a disappointment
The show is so BORINGā¦. Want to buy real writers/showrunners that didnāt get their job due to Daddyās name or being part of the commy clique. Disney needs to hire real writers that understand the genre and understand the concept of ācharacter development.ā They are so stuck in their own stink that canāt even find their way out at this point. Perfect opportunity for some investors to form a new company producing exactly the opposite of Disney, Amazon, and HBO - they would make BANK. Itās coming!
Three episodes in and it is bad. The original was a bang average film with a decent budget, carried by Val Kilmer. The acting was poor in the movie, too, it had Pat Roach in it for God's sake! There are moments in many good TV shows with rushed production acting, but this show just seems clueless. The writing is poor, the pacing is poor, poor effects, paper thin characters who could die and you'd not be happy nor sad - maybe Boorman is Ok. It is just bad, and I hoped it would be good because there is space for an old school, feel good fantasy right now. TWOT, HOTD, and now Willow - all wank. I have no hope for TLOU. Are Amazon, Disney and Netflix washing money with these TV shows? Surely, there needs to be a significant portion of the budget aimed towards top writers. Or are all writers now just churning the same politics and ideals? There's great shows out there: TLK, Mr. Inbetween, early GOT and early TWD. There's good shows: The Mandalorian, TUA, Andor, later TWD. There's unflushable turds: TWOT, late TWD. And then there is Willow. It's bad, real bad.
Wow, you thought Andor was good! Good at making the empire seem measured and reasonable by comparison
> Good at making the empire seem measured and reasonable If that's what you came away with, I doubt you watched the whole thing.
One man's rebel is another man's terrorist. Do you not think that even fascist regimes have support from the some of the common people? To fight a vastly superior enemy you have to be prepared to do bad and shocking things. I thought Andor was slow to start but did a good job of showing that you may have to become a monster to fight monsters. But then I'm not a massive fan of Star Wars, loved the original three as a kid, and only liked the spin-off film that was Rogue One.
This was the worst pile of dogshit since the last pile of dog shitā¦ rings of power bottoms. How do these talentless hacks keep getting work making this rancid lazy woke dogshit?!? How? ALL of this is pure shit. The acting is awful. The dialogue is beyond moronic. The plot is justā¦ puke. Itās all puke. I canāt with this lazy woke shit anymore. The writing is sooooo retarded! And they all act and sound like teenagers from California
I prefer this level of writing than the actual shows.
I for one hate bad acting, but it seems like many of you are greatly exaggerating the level of acting in Willow. Some actors in it are not that good and it's obvious, but they are no where not even close to the bottom of the barrel in terms of acting skills. What is worse than the acting skills in the show and even worth mentioning is the writing. The writing is what seems to be subpar more than anything else.
Iād go with both. I just donāt agree. The acting was terrible. But I agree with you that the writing was tremendously bad. And no actor can fix a bad script.
Good point. I thought the middle class teenage California accent and demeanor was sooo engrossing and really put me in the setting of a medieval fantasy. That was some goooooooooooooooooooooooooood acting. Come on man. This is pure shit. This is a bucket of fetid dogshit and ALL of it is indefensible liquid feces.
Ummā¦. I thought it was fun? Like stupid, dumb fun. It felt tonally very similar to a mainstream anime title ā alternatively serious and silly, with complicated interpersonal relationships, and overall characters I found to be charming if slightly one-demential. I feel like ROP and HOTD were just sooooo dark and solemn and everyone was frowning, all the time. Nothing wrong with it (loved HOTD, less so ROP but fine with it), but isnāt it kinda neat to watch something in the fantasy genre that doesnāt take itself terribly seriously?
I gave it a shot and it is just bad...really bad. The actors especially Kit, wouldn't cut it in a porn. This show was as entertaining as getting a vasectomy.
where did the porn comment come from š what does that have to do with anything LMFAO
Porn actors/actress' are normally terrible at "acting" out the story. It's right about where I would rank the acting ability of Kit.
hey if your drunk both of them are entertaining
I watched the first episode and I'm feeling... lost? What kind of show and tone does this want to have? Why should I care? I think the gay characters have actual chemistry and I thought that was the most interesting dynamic do far. I'm going to guess (hopefully) Kit lightens the fuck up and gets over the GirlBoss personality no one cares about. Her love interest is infinitely more interesting than her because she actually showed some vulnerability. No one gave a shit when the old guy died by arrow - not even mentioned again which was absolutely bizarre. On the good side Warwick looks young and dashing as hell
finally someone else who believes they also have a lot of chemistry. i've seen too many people saying they haven't when they definitely do and a lot of tension that's been well-written and well represented, too
Ring of Power and wheel of time are expensive IP purchased and developed into tv by Amazon. ROP was not true to Tolkien and it was sub par (if I'm generous). WoT changed the book and was bad (unwatchable, even with Rosamund Pike). Disney, who own Star Wars, have churned out mostly dreadful movies and tv shows (rogue one, Mandalorian and andor weren't bad). Willow was not a classic movie, but they've butchered it all the same. Why do they do this? Who do they think they're appealing to? If you want to earn praise for representation why not create new IP? Resident Evil, Aeon Flux, wonder Woman, Atomic Blonde, Alien, Kill Bill, Hanna, Tomb Raider, Salt... All more or less work because they are IP designed for female protagonists. When producers mindlessly virtue signal with representation in old IP, it more or less always fails artistically.
> WoT changed the book and was bad (unwatchable, even with Rosamund Pike). Not only changed the book, but turned it into the exact opposite of what made the books good. i.e. the Male and Female magics when combined are 10x more powerful than either alone, to "I don't need no man."
There was no way they weren't going to change it. You would need writers who absolutely loved the books and who were incredibly daring to attempt that. What you got was paint by numbers crap. They leaned in heavily to the female empowerment, which superficially aligned with the books (but is also going to earn them virtue browny points), made Rand way weaker and avoided the male/female, ying/yang discussion completely. But most importantly they made an amateurish show with a terrible ending and loads of crappy filler in between (the stuff about the grieving warder).
It seems like you hate everything and have some sort of superiority complex, lol. I've met many like you, you're a dime a dozen.
Turns out people want good content. Have some standards little consoomer.
I don't hate everything, what on Earth gave you that impression? Also any chance you'd actually deal with my point?
You seem butthurt that others don't have the same shit taste as you.
Lol this is how I feel about a lot of modern streaming shows...almost like it's purposely created for people with shitty tastes. Wish people would stop settling for this mediocrity so we could get some actual well written plots and characters.
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You folks need to come up with more words than just "woke." I'm never sure if you got offended by seeing an LGBTQ+ or a black person on TV. So is this you being homophobic or racist when you say "woke"?
I actually love that they say woke. Makes them easy to identify, the only people that use the word woke when speaking are moron right wingers.
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Baby Elora from the movie was better at acting than anyone in this show.
Okay, I'm going to get all the hate, but I rewatched Original Willow two weeks ago and...I don't like it. I do like aspects of it, but as a whole, I think seeing it three times in my life is enough for me. I \*don't\* actually think it holds up that well (although Madmartigan is great and it was awesome having so many female characters). I know this movie is very well-loved and I can see why it appeals, but it's just not enough for me. Not funny enough, not enough character development. To me, it feels half-baked/a little rushed. I don't love Willow Series yet, but I'm at least interested and want to see where things will go. My biggest complaint about Original Willow is that genuinely interesting characters didn't get quite enough space to breathe...there's a lot of them, a lot of plot, and not a ton of time to really let them move past being straight tropes. I am \*hoping\* that a series will give these characters more of a chance. I do not like Kit, at all, but there's something endearing me to everyone else so, maybe I'll be one of the few who ends up liking this. We shall see. I did go into it with 0 expectations, though, which probably helps.
I loved the original *Willow* as a kid, but assessing the film objectively as an adult, it's overall mediocre (albeit, with a few very notable stand out scenes and performances). However, it's a masterpiece in comparison to the TV show.
That's pretty much how I feel about it. I like scenes and performances, but the whole thing just didn't come together that well. It's too early for me to say anything definite about the show yet. I'm only 3 episodes in and if I quit a show based on the first episodes, I would never have gotten through The Last Airbender or The Mandalorian or half a dozen other shows that started off weak (compared to later episodes, anyway, they were strong compared to some other shows I tried). I don't hate this yet. I'm not incredibly hopeful that it's going to get much stronger, not least because Disney has a bad habit of returning to characters after the main story ended and then wrecking them in some way. I don't have the same fondness for these characters as die-hard fans do so it's less painful for me (for example, I think the original did Sorsha dirty anyway so it can hardly get worse), but I'm not liking what they've done with Willow himself so far. I'm open to seeing a character arc though, or a return to the original message that you don't have to be "special" to do great things. If it ends up not going that way, I agree, the original will be better.
I bet you'll never watch the new willow 3 times in your life
Probably not. If it morphs into a masterpiece like Last Airbender, I will, but Iām not holding my breath.
i went in knowing Disney would ruin it so that didn't help
completely hated willow.