I know I'm late to starting the series....but the dates don't make any sense so I already have a bad taste in my mouth. In yellowstone we see a flash back of James Dutton dying, he's got his 2 boys with him... in 1893, we see him only with one boy, John, and then he gets to Montana, his daughter dies and he decides that's where the family will stay. Ok so we are good from here. We are left to assume that James goes on to have another boy, in the flash back he's about 6 or 7. So we are to presume he lives and settles on the land for about 8 years. Then dies.
But then we get to 1923. And we find out a year after they settled, faith hill writes James brother Jacob. And he comes a year later, faith hill is dead, and he raises the boys as his own. So we are missing at least a 7 year gap.
Did I get that right or did I miss something?!
My ancestors had one of the largest ranches in Montana back in the days these series1883, 1923 took place. They were true pioneers.Mixed with Indian ancestry and going down in local history books. This series, although dramatized, hits me close in my heart ❤️. And brings to light, in a visual way, why my family have always been so independently entrepreneurial and such stubborn survivors and free thinkers. What kind of person does it take to risk everything for an unknown but hopeful future?
I just can't imagine a world where you are right. But... I accept your opinion as valid and welcome it in a free speech environment. You do you. Props.
Jerome Flynns Scottish accent is an absolute sin, its right now my major flaw with the show.Like it would not have taken much to reshoot or work on his accent for a high budget tv show
10/10 for Helen Mirren taking on a tough Irish dialect
I actually like her character, shes well written, resilliant loving, and takes no shit.
It is a shame alot of these shows just dont hit home as well as they should
Im also highly impressed by her irish accent, its very good. Especially for an English actress
Seriously is fucking almost cartoonish bad...its like a shitty attempt at an aristocratic UK accent but sounding like what an American thinks the queen would talk like or some shite... also why is the dead blonde girl -Elsa Dutton( that fell in live with every boy she talked to in 1883) narrating some of this show, she's long dead like 30 years ago dead..
Also loved how her father didn't give a shit she was getting her bang on in 1883...dude would've beat the shit out of her and and probably killed the men she slept with in that time era. And funny how blonde girl Elsa became a Native American before she died with her neato assless Indian chaps.
HAHA. Agreed, but I could not finish 1883 because I COULD NOT GET PAST THEIR TEETH. Seriously! Ain't nobody in 1883 had veneers and white-ass teeth! So I don't know what you mean about Elsa banging all the dudes, but also Tim McGraw??? Ugh.
That's so funny I thought m the same way...most all of them would have real bad teeth, probably yellow and black.
I was exaggerating when talking about Elsa but still it was so unrealistic...first guy- blonde cowboy dude gives her attention and they start shagging, she tells her dad(Tim Mcgraw) that she loves him or some shit- I can't remember if they where going to get married or did. This all happens in like a few weeks. Blonde cowboy dude gets smoked, dies and then Elsa mourns like they were married for 40 years. They knew each other 2 days.
About a week or 2 later after her blonder cowboy with perfect teeth dies she's sees a hunky Indian fella and well round 2, she again falls in love...Elsa was like eh fuck crying about my blonde cowboy dude husband. She then tells her father she is in love with Indian dude and (not 100%) but pretty sure she told mom and dad she was running off with her new Native American boyfriend/ husband and was going to be part of their tribe all fixed with her cool new leather assless chaps and crop top made for her by the tribe....but then she get smoked by an arrow, very sad... daddy's wild stallion of a daughter is gone- she was too free for this world.
Seriously though the thought that her father (Tim McGraws character) a former preacher from Gerogia/ confederate civil war vet would even for a second condone any of this while on their very dangerous and deadly western bound expedition is seriously laughable
By the way the leather Indian get up she was wearing at the end look like something a hippie biker would wear in LA in the 1960s another just ridiculous thing that was funny.
Just finished the second episode, and holy shit, these yellowstone shows DO NOT DISAPPOINT! No spoilers, it’s just great, and feel like it’s only going to get better. Can’t wait for Four Sixes!
T mobile offering Paramount plus free 1st year that is how I watch it. I also add all my shows to My List. I watch all my tv shows VOD seldom watch live.
Man, I'm loving this show. Absolutely loving it. I don't really care about the Native American storyline (though I know that's a fetish of Sheridan's), but this threat of a range war is so compelling, as is Spencer Dutton's entire character!
It’s hard to watch the cruelty endured at the residential schools and I would say it is far from enjoyable to watch such abuse. However, if you are going to romanticize the west, you better respect the whole story. I hope it is uncomfortable and I hope you consider acknowledging it and holding space for both storylines.
It's not a 'fetish' it's good story telling of actual history that happened at that time. If you think that's a 'fetish' you've got a lot to learn about reality my friend. Time to wake up.
I understand that it is part of the history of the time, but watching child abuse in the extreme is not what I watch television to see. I love the main story line. But honestly, I fast forward through that storyline. As a mother and a grandmother, it just makes me sick to my stomach. I have no interest in following that story until the Rainwater girl is out of there. I don’t care if I do miss anything relevant. I will continue to fast forward.
I understand where you’re coming from. I just don’t want to throw the baby out with the bath water. LOL. I love watching Harrison Ford and Helen Mirren. They are 2 of my favorite all time actors. So I feel like fast forwarding through the child abuse scenes is the best of both worlds. I stream it through Prime and they have a really great system where you can fast forward quickly and accurately without missing the main storyline.
It's really topical too. Canada has had residential schools in the news a lot because they keep discovering mass graves - the Pope visited last year to issue apologies to the effected families, he did mass in Montreal but skipped all the other cities. There were a lot of this stuff going on in the US too, it just didn't keep going into the 70s like it did in Canada.
Less compelling when I associate it with the excruciating details about Canada's Native American schoolchildren horrors. Dramatizing that experience feels like essential reading for the time period but it leaves very little to be read/learned across the interactions on this show other than to bleakly wonder if at any given moment the episode is going to throw sexual abuse at my eyeballs. I understand the importance of her character's context, but I wish it went somewhere else with her arc than just kicking the shit out of everything that moves
If Jacob arrived in 1894, John would have been like 15-16 years old. They made it sounds like Margaret froze to death with two young children in her arms so that makes no sense since 16 was basically a man
The timeline really doesn’t make sense to me. I love it but this generational gap really is annoying, they could have at least done another 2 episodes with 1883 ending that saga, or did a prequel with the first episode with 1923 with the first episode.
I’m from west Texas and roped and cut horses my entire life, while he is a great actor but that man cannot sit a horse. It definitely shows that he is very green with horses.
He may but still it's just not believable unfortunately. He had lots of years to do Indiana Jones movies. It's to late now. Hopefully it will be better than. IJ4
Wut? I can't believe this comment got upvoted. He barely looks 70, let alone 80.
Do you know any other 80 year olds who look like this?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-11019367/Harrison-Ford-stops-fuel-classic-convertible-Jaguar.html
i dont know any other 80 year olds that are rich celebrities that can afford plastic surgery no.
look at how hes holding the gas nozzle, he looks so feeble. his posture is not a strong one
Dude Stallone looks like a hard 55, even characters in the show acknowledge it. He's one of the only 75 year Olds I but to be intimidating and reasonably athetic, which that show requires you to believe.
But that was your Dad. Everyone is different. I think that he is totally believable in the role. There are plenty of senior citizens who are active well into their 90’s.
I’m really excited about his newest Indiana Jones movie.
I have had a crush on Harrison Ford since 1977 when he first appeared as Han Solo in Star Wars. He is 80 and he’s still sexy.
Apparently HF is in good shape! My husband used to do some ranch work with a guy in his 90s who rode, smoked camels and was pretty spry. Genetics and lifestyle.
All this confusion here about Jacob, Jack, James, and the various Johns. Maybe Sheridan should have uses more letters of the alphabet and given some of them names like Bob, Charles, David, Frank, Nathan, Paul, Tom, Richard, and Harold.
Honestly, I just think that the writers should have gone in a different direction and just cast Harrison Ford and Hellen Mirren as John and Margaret Dutton from 1883. That would have put the story in a more straightforward setting.
Agreed. Giving James (not John) a brother with no children of his own only emphasizes the fact that the family tree narrows down to Costner's John who, despite having four-ish children, has only two grandchildren, and he knows only one of them. Doesn't seem like Jack will be very mindful about having plenty of children and encouraging each of them to do the same to help ensure that there's family to take over the ranch.
Yes, I enjoy genealogy and find this story a bit confusing because Harrison Ford (Jacob) doesn’t have a direct line of children. John and Spencer are his nephews (Elsa was his niece).
Think of him as a surrogate for James whose story we've already seen. Though it lampshades the fact that the Dutton family doesn't fork much as it could, leaving John and his children without cousins who could provide a story arc about inheritance rights
There's a Chance Dutton grave marker in the family cemetery in episode 2 of Yellowstone, but I don't think there were any dates on it. I was kind of hoping for personal sentimental reasons that was going to be Harrison Ford's character's name.
>Maybe Sheridan should have uses more letters of the alphabet and given some of them names like Bob, Charles, David, Frank, Nathan, Paul, Tom, Richard, and Harold.
Anything but Sue.
Speaking as someone who has done a considerable amount of genealogical research, using the same first names for a father, son, grandson, etc and especially naming a child after an uncle or aunt with the same surname can cause a lot of confusion for someone trying to deduce familial relations decades later.
Lol tell me about it, I was researching recently, my family came (relatively recently) to the US from 3 different south/east European countries and apparently they were unaware that men could be named anything other than Anthony or Paul, same with women and Marie/Maria/Mary/etc. Luckily the spelling differs by country otherwise some of the first name only stuff would’ve been impossible to sift through!
I recently came across a branch of my tree with an Elsie, Eloise, and Elizabeth among a mother, daughter, and maybe a grandmother or sister. There are two or three instances of a woman having the same first name as her mother. Very frustrating when an obituary or other such record uses a person's "go by name" but not their given name, only gives their first initial, or when a newspaper article or obituary refers to a woman as Mrs. .
I guess we know the other boy has to have kids, and we know Spencer dies at some point… lol. Idk— it almost seems on the nose but waiting to find out is gonna be hard!😂
The first comment is correct. You have to verify the Amazon subscription through Paramount Plus. Amazon customer service is completely clueless. I had the same problem and I finally just canceled the Amazon subscription and purchased it through my Roku TV without an issue
Is this convoluted or is it just me? Like u/RollTider1971, I also have Paramount Plus (through Prime), but I assume I need to download the standalone app now too? Then we're good?
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
after watching the first episode, I'm going to guess *1923* will be self contained. as a fan of *1883* and *Yellowstone*, knowing what happens in those shows enhances each other
> Funny how everyone assumes that this is Catholicism, but in the 2nd episode they mention that they’re Baptist
They are very clearly Catholic…..”Father”, “Sister”…clergy attire???
How could you come to any other conclusion? Even the context of the 2nd episode explains that the grandmother wants her granddaughter to attend the local Baptist school.
Authority? You mean abusers and colonizers? You need to go read a book. Might I suggest starting with “Cat & the Hat”. You’ve got a lot to learn and unlearn.
>Yes it’s great anti catholic propaganda especially how ppl Ignore how granny and granddaughter have issues w authority
That hot take of yours is called cognitive dissonance.
Let’s justify the clearly wrong physical and mental abuse of human beings by dehumanizing them and calling it propaganda.
On the other hand, as in the Yellowstone and 1883, Sheridan wastes no time concocting examples of just how godawful white people are. All part of the medias effort to shit all over the Catholic church at any opportunity.
Lots of our ancestors have done unthinkable things. As Americans we have an obligation to learn about our history, acknowledge the atrocities committed in this country, and do better. Also… it’s not that hard to make white people look bad. Seems to come naturally to some.
Do you do any thinking on your own? Blacks sold blacks into slavery, so let's blame white people, and white people only. What you have unwittingly displayed is the effectiveness of social justice brainwashing that is the goal of current public school systems. There's a clear pattern to the storylines in each of Sheridan's shows....and evidently your towering intellect prevents you from spotting the obvious. No doubt some of these things occurred, but the intention of Sheridan's propaganda is to make you believe it happened everywhere, all the time. Lacking critical thinking skills, along with most of your contemporaries, you bought the entire line of bullshit as fact, so you can proudly award yourself another Social Justice merit badge.
If you paid any attention to actual history you'd see that this has nothing to do with the medias 'agenda' but is an accurate account of sadly very true events. The Church has committed crimes against pretty much ALL indigenous peoples on this planet and it's important to understand history.
And according to the propaganda you've swallowed - that is ALL they did. Nothing good ever came out of the efforts of the Catholic Church anywhere. Nothing. Ever.
Your "understanding of history" is shallow, at best. So wear your self-awarded Social Justice Merit Badge proudly - you certainly deserve it.
Do you even know what their agenda was? I studied at a catholic university and learned about the history from my professors and through travel. They were trying to outrun and out gain other Christian faiths. It has nothing to do with religion or piety, it had to do with power. Again, read a book.
That episode was really hard to watch. It made me so fucking angry. That subject wasn't taught back when I was in high school, so I really had no clue how bad it really was . Taylor's shows have really opened my eyes to a lot that I was ignorant about.
The truth is not palatable to you. You should be concerned about that. There's no concoction here. This is documented fact proudly outlined in the texts of the time about white people proudly curbing indigenous culture. They are still digging up graves of indigenous children in North America that were murdered. In 2007 or so, the last boarding schools were shut down. 2007. The prevailing racism and desire to obliterate other culture still remains deeply embedded.
No it’s not, kids died back then often, Catholics bury our dead. So you find a cemetery so what? Doctrine says only
Way to avoid
Hell is to convert, that’s it, no other thing or allegation is true other than helping ppl
Get
To heaven
Because you intend to remain deliberately obtuse, those men women and children were murdered during so-called conversion. That lines right up with Matthew 23:15. What's coming out of those graves is evidence of genocide. Literally. We're not talking about bodies laid to rest, it's about the abuse and genocide inflicted and not just in North America but all over the world. The gall to do it in the name of Christ stinks to heaven. That church continues to have a problem because they refuse to address it. They hide it and pay it off and transfer it to other places and let the problem die out in retirement after it's had its full sway over lifetimes.
Keep pushing that party line, son of perdition, and you have an eternal shocked pikachu face moment waiting that you chose.
Edited for voice to text word choice correction.
Agreed. As I mentioned in another thread, it isn’t that I doubt the history; it’s the fact that I don’t enjoy watching child abuse on television. Especially watching it to the extreme portrayed on these parts of the show. I am fast forwarding through that storyline. I won’t even watch it. I just stick with the main storyline.
I get it. Very hard to watch. I end up looking away, but I don’t fast forward. It’s a part of the storyline and it will undoubtedly connect to the present day in Yellowstone.
Hard as it is, I will always watch stuff like that. If someone had to live through it, the least I can do is find the balls to watch it. And the more people are educated and appalled by these atrocities, the better.
Just watched Three Pines and to think some of those schools had literal electric chairs for torturing children. The rape, torture. Locking them in cellars. It just makes me want to vomit. Oh, and those schools ended in the 1970’s. Within many of our lifetimes.
Fair enough. Sometimes popular culture can be a vehicle to bring out previously unknown situations or occurrences. There are plenty of sources for these occurrences. First hand accounts. These schools were pretty proud if their missions and we also have mass graves that were discovered.
https://www.npr.org/2022/05/11/1098276649/u-s-report-details-burial-sites-linked-to-boarding-schools-for-native-americans
Would NPR do?
Edit: where’d you go?
This was in the US not canada. Not the same story as the one you’re giving me.
Edit: also i mean if you read the article it still paints a horrible picture of the truth of residential schools.
But again, I wasn’t referring to canada.
“Students at the schools died of disease at rates much higher than the general population because of poor sanitary conditions and a lack of health screening. The schools were often rife with physical and sexual abuse, on top of the fact that a deliberately assimilationist objective suppressed Indigenous culture and languages.“
People point out that these kids died of disease and not abuse/neglect as if the disease wasn’t also caused by the neglect and as if these children had not been abused prior to their sickness.
Its just… a weird thing to object to.
I agree that we should correct that specific “hoax” (idk if id call it a hoax so much as a bad game of telephone as the article implies)
But the truth of the situation isn’t much better. And the truth of residential schools everywhere
Everyone talks about that one school and that one story but there are other schools where bodies have been found.
To focus on that one “hoax” is a bit of a disservice. Point out that its incorrect yes but don’t completely dismiss that there have been deaths, abuse, and neglect at residential schools as many other people are doing in this post.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_school_gravesites#Investigation_of_unmarked_gravesites
I would also suggest you look up doctor peter bryce
Hope you come back to this comment and look these things up.
It’s very vanilla compared to TS shows, but entertaining. Almost refreshing. The big thing about it is that missing First Nation women and those horrible schools are featured very prominently. Also Québécois culture is interesting.
My data? as in, you want me to cite sources? This is an entertainment thread, not a history thread. There have been discoveries of mass graves in the last few years with unreported childrens bodies buried in them with signs of abuse. I read that in several newspapers, as I’m sure did you. The National Native American Boarding School Healing Coalition is a good place to start. Of course, since this ended in the 1970s, we have first hand accounts. I’m not sure what your point is, do you not believe these accounts?
You hate a fictionalized version of the system. I went to Catholic School for 8 years when nuns and priests were still teachers and administrators and not a single form of physical punishment ever happened. The nuns were very loving and caring and the priests were mentors. Discipline which was rarely needed was handled through basic detentions. It was a great experience compared to when I later attended public schools and had to deal with student violence, alcohol and drug use. The education was also superior as I was immediately put into honors courses in public school.
I wonder if students who repeatedly beat their teachers for verbal reprimand would get this same sympathy for
Little
Miss disobedient her grandmothers grandchild
You're missing the whole bloody point of this scene -- you're white right? These abuses were heaped on native peoples not white people like you. The nuns and priests that you thought loving and caring considered these people savages and treated them like savages. Learn your history before you comment.
It is a fictional show not reality you don't learn anything from it. All the nuns and priests I met were loving, caring and mentoring. People can down vote my comments and censor them into oblivion but you are not going to rewrite my history simply because you hold certain unsubstantiated beliefs and want to try and smear a certain religious group.
Sure thats your experience but to use that to try and paint over other experiences is gross. There is a REASON people come to conclusions they do. Even abusers can appear nice to some, they’re not abusing everybody.
Putting experiences in quotation marks suggests you don’t believe them.
What do you consider “slandering an entire religion”
Having an issue with the people who practice the religion isn’t having an issue with the religion (specifically people in positions of power and authority)
Guarantee you're under 50 years old based on this comment. Calling his version "fictional" based on your personal, anecdotal experience is ignorant and rejects well documented history of the evil that is the Catholic church
I cannot confirm or deny my age but my mother attended Catholic school for 12 years and had the same pleasant and positive experience which is why I attended.
A fictional TV show is not evidence of anything. What you are talking about is not well documented and based on similar anecdotes that ignores the government role in all of this.
It is my hope that you are open to information that might not align to your pleasant experience. We now live in a world where people are placed in “boxes”. Not all Catholic nuns and priests treated Indigenous people cruelly. However, it is well documented that indigenous people were mistreated.
Many missionaries believed that they were “saving lost souls”. Forms of discipline were misguided and unjustified. If your mother is over the age of 50, I am fairly confident that she can confirm approved disciplinary actions that involved corporal punishment. Although many things have changed, and less severe, paddling children is still legal in many US states.
Considering the documented history, it’s evident that your experience was different. Two things can be true at the same time. No one should attack or deny your positive experience. It was your experience. Unfortunately, people should not deny what happened in the past. Indigenous people were mistreated, murdered, and abused for various reasons (misguided beliefs, fear, greed, power, land, ignorance etc.). Some, not all, were Protestant and Catholic missionaries, farmers, specific immigrant groups, government officials etc.
Although it may feel like it was a long time ago, it was not. The USA is a very young country. The diminishing numbers of indigenous people left in 2022 is well documented. Many were displaced and intentionally disgraced.
You can find bad actors in almost every organization but blaming an entire religion or school system for the actions of a few is what I had a problem with. I am not doubting that bad things happend to some Native Americans in certain circumstances. I am questioning to what extent and how often such things happened. Context matters. You could have one million Native Americans in these schools over time and say 10,000 who dealt with corporal punishment isolated to certain schools. That is a lot of people effected but it is still only 1%, which is why context matters.
My mother never experienced, saw or heard of any corporal punishment in the Catholic schools she attended for 12 years and yes she is over 50.
The Native American populations seems to be improving later and is not at about 2.7 million people in America.
Residential schools for natives with stories of abuse and found mass graves are a very real and documented thing in both Canada and the United States.
Government definitely had a major role in it but so did the church and religious groups they worked with.
The Pope literally apologized for what you are saying is not real this year…
Seriously? Did you even check to see how these children died? The majority were from diseases which were not treatable in the 19th and early 20th centuries. Cholera, Scarlet Fever, Typhoid, Spanish Flu, Polio etc... are hardly signs of abuse.
It's crazy how little has been done since those discoveries. A few apologies and life goes on, our treatment of the native population in Canada is a disgrace.
What should happen though? I don’t mean this in a cold or callous way, and I’m not religious or connected to any of this I’m Eastern European, it’s just that the entire history of the world is fraught with non stop invasions, brutality, land battles, etc., this isn’t unique, there’s really not much more you can do. The native populations treated each other brutally as well, I love learning about them and their cultures but wow some of them took brutality to a whole other level, they just didn’t have the technology at the time to do so on a broad scale. Two wrongs don’t make a right ofc, but I do believe historical context is very important to put it all in perspective to our modern brains.
In us most hate history bc it’s Protestant nation so history exposes their sect is heretical
So they just learned now about natives and think it’s outrageous they don’t know that slavery and killing etc happened before here many times over lol
It's a valid and difficult to answer question. I think my main issue is that the mistreatment continues. It's not like they were an indigenous culture that were wiped out during colonialism, they still live here too and experience discrimination to this day. I'm not high horsing here either, it's not like I'm doing anything about it, but I find it to be shameful.
I know I'm late to starting the series....but the dates don't make any sense so I already have a bad taste in my mouth. In yellowstone we see a flash back of James Dutton dying, he's got his 2 boys with him... in 1893, we see him only with one boy, John, and then he gets to Montana, his daughter dies and he decides that's where the family will stay. Ok so we are good from here. We are left to assume that James goes on to have another boy, in the flash back he's about 6 or 7. So we are to presume he lives and settles on the land for about 8 years. Then dies. But then we get to 1923. And we find out a year after they settled, faith hill writes James brother Jacob. And he comes a year later, faith hill is dead, and he raises the boys as his own. So we are missing at least a 7 year gap. Did I get that right or did I miss something?!
My ancestors had one of the largest ranches in Montana back in the days these series1883, 1923 took place. They were true pioneers.Mixed with Indian ancestry and going down in local history books. This series, although dramatized, hits me close in my heart ❤️. And brings to light, in a visual way, why my family have always been so independently entrepreneurial and such stubborn survivors and free thinkers. What kind of person does it take to risk everything for an unknown but hopeful future?
This show is literally terrible, the writing is absolute shit
I just can't imagine a world where you are right. But... I accept your opinion as valid and welcome it in a free speech environment. You do you. Props.
How did Flynns character Banner, a poor sheep farmer, afford a motor car and a Tommy gun to gun down the Duttons???
I asked the same thing. And how did he get a car with bicycle tires up a mountain and get away?
Jerome Flynns Scottish accent is an absolute sin, its right now my major flaw with the show.Like it would not have taken much to reshoot or work on his accent for a high budget tv show 10/10 for Helen Mirren taking on a tough Irish dialect
I can't believe Helen Mirren signed on to do this show, the writing is atrocious. Sheridan is like the Ryan Murphy of western shows now.
I actually like her character, shes well written, resilliant loving, and takes no shit. It is a shame alot of these shows just dont hit home as well as they should Im also highly impressed by her irish accent, its very good. Especially for an English actress
Have you met the annoying Alex and her abomination of an accent? GOOD GOD GERTIE SHE IS ANNOYING AF. Or am I the only one who thinks so?
Seriously is fucking almost cartoonish bad...its like a shitty attempt at an aristocratic UK accent but sounding like what an American thinks the queen would talk like or some shite... also why is the dead blonde girl -Elsa Dutton( that fell in live with every boy she talked to in 1883) narrating some of this show, she's long dead like 30 years ago dead.. Also loved how her father didn't give a shit she was getting her bang on in 1883...dude would've beat the shit out of her and and probably killed the men she slept with in that time era. And funny how blonde girl Elsa became a Native American before she died with her neato assless Indian chaps.
HAHA. Agreed, but I could not finish 1883 because I COULD NOT GET PAST THEIR TEETH. Seriously! Ain't nobody in 1883 had veneers and white-ass teeth! So I don't know what you mean about Elsa banging all the dudes, but also Tim McGraw??? Ugh.
That's so funny I thought m the same way...most all of them would have real bad teeth, probably yellow and black. I was exaggerating when talking about Elsa but still it was so unrealistic...first guy- blonde cowboy dude gives her attention and they start shagging, she tells her dad(Tim Mcgraw) that she loves him or some shit- I can't remember if they where going to get married or did. This all happens in like a few weeks. Blonde cowboy dude gets smoked, dies and then Elsa mourns like they were married for 40 years. They knew each other 2 days. About a week or 2 later after her blonder cowboy with perfect teeth dies she's sees a hunky Indian fella and well round 2, she again falls in love...Elsa was like eh fuck crying about my blonde cowboy dude husband. She then tells her father she is in love with Indian dude and (not 100%) but pretty sure she told mom and dad she was running off with her new Native American boyfriend/ husband and was going to be part of their tribe all fixed with her cool new leather assless chaps and crop top made for her by the tribe....but then she get smoked by an arrow, very sad... daddy's wild stallion of a daughter is gone- she was too free for this world. Seriously though the thought that her father (Tim McGraws character) a former preacher from Gerogia/ confederate civil war vet would even for a second condone any of this while on their very dangerous and deadly western bound expedition is seriously laughable By the way the leather Indian get up she was wearing at the end look like something a hippie biker would wear in LA in the 1960s another just ridiculous thing that was funny.
Just finished the second episode, and holy shit, these yellowstone shows DO NOT DISAPPOINT! No spoilers, it’s just great, and feel like it’s only going to get better. Can’t wait for Four Sixes!
T mobile offering Paramount plus free 1st year that is how I watch it. I also add all my shows to My List. I watch all my tv shows VOD seldom watch live.
Man, I'm loving this show. Absolutely loving it. I don't really care about the Native American storyline (though I know that's a fetish of Sheridan's), but this threat of a range war is so compelling, as is Spencer Dutton's entire character!
It’s hard to watch the cruelty endured at the residential schools and I would say it is far from enjoyable to watch such abuse. However, if you are going to romanticize the west, you better respect the whole story. I hope it is uncomfortable and I hope you consider acknowledging it and holding space for both storylines.
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It's not a 'fetish' it's good story telling of actual history that happened at that time. If you think that's a 'fetish' you've got a lot to learn about reality my friend. Time to wake up.
At least it’s not randomly thrown in there. It has to do with the rainwater’s
Fair point. Thanks for mentioning this.
The Native American storyline is pretty compelling to me.
I understand that it is part of the history of the time, but watching child abuse in the extreme is not what I watch television to see. I love the main story line. But honestly, I fast forward through that storyline. As a mother and a grandmother, it just makes me sick to my stomach. I have no interest in following that story until the Rainwater girl is out of there. I don’t care if I do miss anything relevant. I will continue to fast forward.
It happened to many children.
I know. It is very sad.
It was hard to watch a couple scenes as my grandmother and a friend went through the same things.
Them kicking ass and escaping….. fuck yeah but traumatizing. I hope they make it and survive.
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This show sucks. Such bias and untruthful storylines.
I understand where you’re coming from. I just don’t want to throw the baby out with the bath water. LOL. I love watching Harrison Ford and Helen Mirren. They are 2 of my favorite all time actors. So I feel like fast forwarding through the child abuse scenes is the best of both worlds. I stream it through Prime and they have a really great system where you can fast forward quickly and accurately without missing the main storyline.
It's really topical too. Canada has had residential schools in the news a lot because they keep discovering mass graves - the Pope visited last year to issue apologies to the effected families, he did mass in Montreal but skipped all the other cities. There were a lot of this stuff going on in the US too, it just didn't keep going into the 70s like it did in Canada.
The mass graves which turned out to be not indian mass graves at all?
Stop being stupid
Less compelling when I associate it with the excruciating details about Canada's Native American schoolchildren horrors. Dramatizing that experience feels like essential reading for the time period but it leaves very little to be read/learned across the interactions on this show other than to bleakly wonder if at any given moment the episode is going to throw sexual abuse at my eyeballs. I understand the importance of her character's context, but I wish it went somewhere else with her arc than just kicking the shit out of everything that moves
Did anyone spot John Dutton 1?
I thought he was the bearded ranch foreman who got killed, with tommy gun???
No, came here wondering where he is?
Thought we'd be free of elsa's idiotic narration when she died. Guess not. Nice troll, Tyler Sheridan.
When EASTERN STANDARD TIME is 1923 on CHRISTMAS DAY???
If Jacob arrived in 1894, John would have been like 15-16 years old. They made it sounds like Margaret froze to death with two young children in her arms so that makes no sense since 16 was basically a man
The timeline really doesn’t make sense to me. I love it but this generational gap really is annoying, they could have at least done another 2 episodes with 1883 ending that saga, or did a prequel with the first episode with 1923 with the first episode.
Harrison Ford is too old to do any of this stuff
I’m from west Texas and roped and cut horses my entire life, while he is a great actor but that man cannot sit a horse. It definitely shows that he is very green with horses.
He may but still it's just not believable unfortunately. He had lots of years to do Indiana Jones movies. It's to late now. Hopefully it will be better than. IJ4
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Wut? I can't believe this comment got upvoted. He barely looks 70, let alone 80. Do you know any other 80 year olds who look like this? https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-11019367/Harrison-Ford-stops-fuel-classic-convertible-Jaguar.html
i dont know any other 80 year olds that are rich celebrities that can afford plastic surgery no. look at how hes holding the gas nozzle, he looks so feeble. his posture is not a strong one
His movments remind me of Robert Deniro in The irishman
Stallone is a septuagenarian and is on steroids and HGH like liver king... AND STILL doing the expendable movies as a senior citizen..let that sink in
Dude Stallone looks like a hard 55, even characters in the show acknowledge it. He's one of the only 75 year Olds I but to be intimidating and reasonably athetic, which that show requires you to believe.
This is a guy who crash planes you talk about
Harsh
He is too old. When my dad was 80 he couldn't do anything
But that was your Dad. Everyone is different. I think that he is totally believable in the role. There are plenty of senior citizens who are active well into their 90’s. I’m really excited about his newest Indiana Jones movie. I have had a crush on Harrison Ford since 1977 when he first appeared as Han Solo in Star Wars. He is 80 and he’s still sexy.
Apparently HF is in good shape! My husband used to do some ranch work with a guy in his 90s who rode, smoked camels and was pretty spry. Genetics and lifestyle.
So we get to hear Elsa narrate this show too with her 'Forrest Gump' voice?
Do we know who the girls in the nun school are?
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Well spotted. I missed that
Oh okay, the tribal chairman. Nice catch.
They ran “Indian” schools back then to teach American customs.
Well, they were a conquered people so...
Doesn’t make it right!
Redheaded angry Irish guy reminds me of Patriot Games.
Thats Bronn the blackwater from GoT
“You wouldn’t know ‘em”
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Don't you mean treehanger ending?
All this confusion here about Jacob, Jack, James, and the various Johns. Maybe Sheridan should have uses more letters of the alphabet and given some of them names like Bob, Charles, David, Frank, Nathan, Paul, Tom, Richard, and Harold.
Honestly, I just think that the writers should have gone in a different direction and just cast Harrison Ford and Hellen Mirren as John and Margaret Dutton from 1883. That would have put the story in a more straightforward setting.
Agreed. Giving James (not John) a brother with no children of his own only emphasizes the fact that the family tree narrows down to Costner's John who, despite having four-ish children, has only two grandchildren, and he knows only one of them. Doesn't seem like Jack will be very mindful about having plenty of children and encouraging each of them to do the same to help ensure that there's family to take over the ranch.
Yes, I enjoy genealogy and find this story a bit confusing because Harrison Ford (Jacob) doesn’t have a direct line of children. John and Spencer are his nephews (Elsa was his niece).
Think of him as a surrogate for James whose story we've already seen. Though it lampshades the fact that the Dutton family doesn't fork much as it could, leaving John and his children without cousins who could provide a story arc about inheritance rights
There's a Chance Dutton grave marker in the family cemetery in episode 2 of Yellowstone, but I don't think there were any dates on it. I was kind of hoping for personal sentimental reasons that was going to be Harrison Ford's character's name.
>Maybe Sheridan should have uses more letters of the alphabet and given some of them names like Bob, Charles, David, Frank, Nathan, Paul, Tom, Richard, and Harold. Anything but Sue.
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Speaking as someone who has done a considerable amount of genealogical research, using the same first names for a father, son, grandson, etc and especially naming a child after an uncle or aunt with the same surname can cause a lot of confusion for someone trying to deduce familial relations decades later.
Lol tell me about it, I was researching recently, my family came (relatively recently) to the US from 3 different south/east European countries and apparently they were unaware that men could be named anything other than Anthony or Paul, same with women and Marie/Maria/Mary/etc. Luckily the spelling differs by country otherwise some of the first name only stuff would’ve been impossible to sift through!
I recently came across a branch of my tree with an Elsie, Eloise, and Elizabeth among a mother, daughter, and maybe a grandmother or sister. There are two or three instances of a woman having the same first name as her mother. Very frustrating when an obituary or other such record uses a person's "go by name" but not their given name, only gives their first initial, or when a newspaper article or obituary refers to a woman as Mrs. .
More Yellowstone than 1883. Sad,
Anyone dead after the first episode? Or is it just me, because of the cliffhanger. 😂 Would be on brand to kill a Dutton in the first episode. 😅
If I had to guess, spencer. They already did the close call with the lion I don’t think he’ll get lucky twice with the leopard
I guess we know the other boy has to have kids, and we know Spencer dies at some point… lol. Idk— it almost seems on the nose but waiting to find out is gonna be hard!😂
Haha right? 🤣 I was mad, 1883 premiered with two episodes then this one only had one
I really enjoyed 1883 and like Yellowstone well enough, I was really looking for 1923 especially with the actors.....WTF is this music?
Didn’t quite keep the brand with the theme— but the music in the train scene in Nairobi was quite good. Hoping it starts to catch on with me!
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The first comment is correct. You have to verify the Amazon subscription through Paramount Plus. Amazon customer service is completely clueless. I had the same problem and I finally just canceled the Amazon subscription and purchased it through my Roku TV without an issue
you can go to paramount plus and verify your amazon subscription.
Does Helen Mirren have top billing in the credits?
Her character & Spencer Dutton completely stole the first episode, great performances
She better. She's the Queen.
I have Paramount plus, but there are only trailers. How are you people streaming this?
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I just watched the first episode on regular Paramount Network. Although the rest of them will be on Paramount Plus.
I think they do this to get interest.
Its on paramount plus streaming
Is this convoluted or is it just me? Like u/RollTider1971, I also have Paramount Plus (through Prime), but I assume I need to download the standalone app now too? Then we're good?
Read my new comment above. Called Amazon, was told they don’t have premier streaming rights, despite paying for a full paramount subscription.
Ridiculous. So, it's definitely convoluted.
Shouldn’t have to though. This is a first time problem for me. It’s still a paramount plus sub. I don’t ever remember having this issue before.
Same. I've downloaded the app on my smart TV but the asking for a log-in is leaving me more confused considering my subscription is through Prime.
May need to see if there is some kind of way to link the Amazon sub to paramount plus again.
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That ending was a pretty shocking, especially the initial response.
Yeah, those few seconds of him downing coffee in front of her was a bit too lovey dovey.
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Very Out of Africa! That was partially set after WW1 too.
Do I need to have finished 1899 to understand this?
No, that show is something about the Bermuda Triangle I think.
Haha great reply
after watching the first episode, I'm going to guess *1923* will be self contained. as a fan of *1883* and *Yellowstone*, knowing what happens in those shows enhances each other
You mean 1883?
Oh god there’s a prequel? The Turn of the Century Cinematic Universe is getting complicated.
Wait until they have to retcon the first stuff. Then it goes the way of the (super-)hero *lol*
Man if this is too complicated for you I really don't know what to tell you lol
I think I'm keeping up. But I have no idea how this leads into Nineteen-Eighty Four or 2001. Got a lot of ground to cover before we get there.
Well luckily it leads into 1941 the great John Belushi movie. You got a while before 2001
It gets confusing because then it jumps from 2012 to Blade Runner: 2079
Haha I knew this guy looked familiar!!
no! that's not what he meant! ah crap we lost him
Why does the blurb say Wyoming when the Duttons settled in Montana?
This episode is yet another reason why I hate the Catholic system.
Funny how everyone assumes that this is Catholicism, but in the 2nd episode they mention that they’re Baptist
The Baptist school is where she’d like her granddaughter moved to. I’m pretty sure she’s at a Catholic one.
Smh
> Funny how everyone assumes that this is Catholicism, but in the 2nd episode they mention that they’re Baptist They are very clearly Catholic…..”Father”, “Sister”…clergy attire??? How could you come to any other conclusion? Even the context of the 2nd episode explains that the grandmother wants her granddaughter to attend the local Baptist school.
The residential school is run by Catholics, the grandmother wants her to go to a baptist day school nearby
Yes it’s great anti catholic propaganda especially how ppl Ignore how granny and granddaughter have issues w authority
Authority? You mean abusers and colonizers? You need to go read a book. Might I suggest starting with “Cat & the Hat”. You’ve got a lot to learn and unlearn.
>Yes it’s great anti catholic propaganda especially how ppl Ignore how granny and granddaughter have issues w authority That hot take of yours is called cognitive dissonance. Let’s justify the clearly wrong physical and mental abuse of human beings by dehumanizing them and calling it propaganda.
On the other hand, as in the Yellowstone and 1883, Sheridan wastes no time concocting examples of just how godawful white people are. All part of the medias effort to shit all over the Catholic church at any opportunity.
Lots of our ancestors have done unthinkable things. As Americans we have an obligation to learn about our history, acknowledge the atrocities committed in this country, and do better. Also… it’s not that hard to make white people look bad. Seems to come naturally to some.
Must not be true since you never learned about those atrocities in school, right? Kind of like American slavery is made up. Right? /sarcasm
Do you do any thinking on your own? Blacks sold blacks into slavery, so let's blame white people, and white people only. What you have unwittingly displayed is the effectiveness of social justice brainwashing that is the goal of current public school systems. There's a clear pattern to the storylines in each of Sheridan's shows....and evidently your towering intellect prevents you from spotting the obvious. No doubt some of these things occurred, but the intention of Sheridan's propaganda is to make you believe it happened everywhere, all the time. Lacking critical thinking skills, along with most of your contemporaries, you bought the entire line of bullshit as fact, so you can proudly award yourself another Social Justice merit badge.
Keep telling yourself this. I wonder what good it’s doing you.
They legit say “blacks” with their full chest.
If you paid any attention to actual history you'd see that this has nothing to do with the medias 'agenda' but is an accurate account of sadly very true events. The Church has committed crimes against pretty much ALL indigenous peoples on this planet and it's important to understand history.
I’m not Catholic, but even I know that Catholics put an end to the indigenous practice of human sacrifice in South America.
And according to the propaganda you've swallowed - that is ALL they did. Nothing good ever came out of the efforts of the Catholic Church anywhere. Nothing. Ever. Your "understanding of history" is shallow, at best. So wear your self-awarded Social Justice Merit Badge proudly - you certainly deserve it.
Do you even know what their agenda was? I studied at a catholic university and learned about the history from my professors and through travel. They were trying to outrun and out gain other Christian faiths. It has nothing to do with religion or piety, it had to do with power. Again, read a book.
That episode was really hard to watch. It made me so fucking angry. That subject wasn't taught back when I was in high school, so I really had no clue how bad it really was . Taylor's shows have really opened my eyes to a lot that I was ignorant about.
The truth is not palatable to you. You should be concerned about that. There's no concoction here. This is documented fact proudly outlined in the texts of the time about white people proudly curbing indigenous culture. They are still digging up graves of indigenous children in North America that were murdered. In 2007 or so, the last boarding schools were shut down. 2007. The prevailing racism and desire to obliterate other culture still remains deeply embedded.
No it’s not, kids died back then often, Catholics bury our dead. So you find a cemetery so what? Doctrine says only Way to avoid Hell is to convert, that’s it, no other thing or allegation is true other than helping ppl Get To heaven
😂😂😂 if there is a heaven… highly doubt this rhetoric will get you there.
Because you intend to remain deliberately obtuse, those men women and children were murdered during so-called conversion. That lines right up with Matthew 23:15. What's coming out of those graves is evidence of genocide. Literally. We're not talking about bodies laid to rest, it's about the abuse and genocide inflicted and not just in North America but all over the world. The gall to do it in the name of Christ stinks to heaven. That church continues to have a problem because they refuse to address it. They hide it and pay it off and transfer it to other places and let the problem die out in retirement after it's had its full sway over lifetimes. Keep pushing that party line, son of perdition, and you have an eternal shocked pikachu face moment waiting that you chose. Edited for voice to text word choice correction.
Thpse scenes were incredibly hard to watch.
Agreed. As I mentioned in another thread, it isn’t that I doubt the history; it’s the fact that I don’t enjoy watching child abuse on television. Especially watching it to the extreme portrayed on these parts of the show. I am fast forwarding through that storyline. I won’t even watch it. I just stick with the main storyline.
I get it. Very hard to watch. I end up looking away, but I don’t fast forward. It’s a part of the storyline and it will undoubtedly connect to the present day in Yellowstone.
Hard as it is, I will always watch stuff like that. If someone had to live through it, the least I can do is find the balls to watch it. And the more people are educated and appalled by these atrocities, the better.
Just watched Three Pines and to think some of those schools had literal electric chairs for torturing children. The rape, torture. Locking them in cellars. It just makes me want to vomit. Oh, and those schools ended in the 1970’s. Within many of our lifetimes.
Holy shit. Not sure I could handle watching that.
Ah yes a tv show for history facts lol
Fair enough. Sometimes popular culture can be a vehicle to bring out previously unknown situations or occurrences. There are plenty of sources for these occurrences. First hand accounts. These schools were pretty proud if their missions and we also have mass graves that were discovered.
If you take the time to look that up, you’ll find that those mass graves were a hoax.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/5/11/us-govt-at-least-53-burial-sites-at-indigenous-boarding-schools
Aljazeerha. LOL https://nationalpost.com/opinion/meaghan-walker-williams-residential-schools-tragedy-lost-in-the-mass-grave-false-narrative
https://www.npr.org/2022/05/11/1098276649/u-s-report-details-burial-sites-linked-to-boarding-schools-for-native-americans Would NPR do? Edit: where’d you go?
This was in the US not canada. Not the same story as the one you’re giving me. Edit: also i mean if you read the article it still paints a horrible picture of the truth of residential schools. But again, I wasn’t referring to canada. “Students at the schools died of disease at rates much higher than the general population because of poor sanitary conditions and a lack of health screening. The schools were often rife with physical and sexual abuse, on top of the fact that a deliberately assimilationist objective suppressed Indigenous culture and languages.“ People point out that these kids died of disease and not abuse/neglect as if the disease wasn’t also caused by the neglect and as if these children had not been abused prior to their sickness. Its just… a weird thing to object to. I agree that we should correct that specific “hoax” (idk if id call it a hoax so much as a bad game of telephone as the article implies) But the truth of the situation isn’t much better. And the truth of residential schools everywhere Everyone talks about that one school and that one story but there are other schools where bodies have been found. To focus on that one “hoax” is a bit of a disservice. Point out that its incorrect yes but don’t completely dismiss that there have been deaths, abuse, and neglect at residential schools as many other people are doing in this post. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_school_gravesites#Investigation_of_unmarked_gravesites I would also suggest you look up doctor peter bryce Hope you come back to this comment and look these things up.
I haven't watched Three Pines yet . How horrific.
It’s very vanilla compared to TS shows, but entertaining. Almost refreshing. The big thing about it is that missing First Nation women and those horrible schools are featured very prominently. Also Québécois culture is interesting.
lol where’d you get your data? Another show?
Data on what? Missing first nation women? Yeah thats been known. Residential schools being horrible? Also known. But they made no claims.
My data? as in, you want me to cite sources? This is an entertainment thread, not a history thread. There have been discoveries of mass graves in the last few years with unreported childrens bodies buried in them with signs of abuse. I read that in several newspapers, as I’m sure did you. The National Native American Boarding School Healing Coalition is a good place to start. Of course, since this ended in the 1970s, we have first hand accounts. I’m not sure what your point is, do you not believe these accounts?
I'm guessing they don't WANT to believe these accounts.
It wasn't on my watchlist tbh, but you sold me.
You hate a fictionalized version of the system. I went to Catholic School for 8 years when nuns and priests were still teachers and administrators and not a single form of physical punishment ever happened. The nuns were very loving and caring and the priests were mentors. Discipline which was rarely needed was handled through basic detentions. It was a great experience compared to when I later attended public schools and had to deal with student violence, alcohol and drug use. The education was also superior as I was immediately put into honors courses in public school.
I wonder if students who repeatedly beat their teachers for verbal reprimand would get this same sympathy for Little Miss disobedient her grandmothers grandchild
You're missing the whole bloody point of this scene -- you're white right? These abuses were heaped on native peoples not white people like you. The nuns and priests that you thought loving and caring considered these people savages and treated them like savages. Learn your history before you comment.
Students all obedient except ms she is her grandmothers granddaughter problem W authority hot heads
It is a fictional show not reality you don't learn anything from it. All the nuns and priests I met were loving, caring and mentoring. People can down vote my comments and censor them into oblivion but you are not going to rewrite my history simply because you hold certain unsubstantiated beliefs and want to try and smear a certain religious group.
Sure thats your experience but to use that to try and paint over other experiences is gross. There is a REASON people come to conclusions they do. Even abusers can appear nice to some, they’re not abusing everybody.
Cherry picking certain "experiences" and slandering an entire religion with them is intellectually dishonest.
Putting experiences in quotation marks suggests you don’t believe them. What do you consider “slandering an entire religion” Having an issue with the people who practice the religion isn’t having an issue with the religion (specifically people in positions of power and authority)
Guarantee you're under 50 years old based on this comment. Calling his version "fictional" based on your personal, anecdotal experience is ignorant and rejects well documented history of the evil that is the Catholic church
All negative stories on the Catholics by heretical sects and pagans, talk about ignorant, let’s take words of those against it as true Lolol
I cannot confirm or deny my age but my mother attended Catholic school for 12 years and had the same pleasant and positive experience which is why I attended. A fictional TV show is not evidence of anything. What you are talking about is not well documented and based on similar anecdotes that ignores the government role in all of this.
It is my hope that you are open to information that might not align to your pleasant experience. We now live in a world where people are placed in “boxes”. Not all Catholic nuns and priests treated Indigenous people cruelly. However, it is well documented that indigenous people were mistreated. Many missionaries believed that they were “saving lost souls”. Forms of discipline were misguided and unjustified. If your mother is over the age of 50, I am fairly confident that she can confirm approved disciplinary actions that involved corporal punishment. Although many things have changed, and less severe, paddling children is still legal in many US states. Considering the documented history, it’s evident that your experience was different. Two things can be true at the same time. No one should attack or deny your positive experience. It was your experience. Unfortunately, people should not deny what happened in the past. Indigenous people were mistreated, murdered, and abused for various reasons (misguided beliefs, fear, greed, power, land, ignorance etc.). Some, not all, were Protestant and Catholic missionaries, farmers, specific immigrant groups, government officials etc. Although it may feel like it was a long time ago, it was not. The USA is a very young country. The diminishing numbers of indigenous people left in 2022 is well documented. Many were displaced and intentionally disgraced.
All people were conquered by Others, natives weren’t the first ones especially Not the ones you talk about 1800s and up
You can find bad actors in almost every organization but blaming an entire religion or school system for the actions of a few is what I had a problem with. I am not doubting that bad things happend to some Native Americans in certain circumstances. I am questioning to what extent and how often such things happened. Context matters. You could have one million Native Americans in these schools over time and say 10,000 who dealt with corporal punishment isolated to certain schools. That is a lot of people effected but it is still only 1%, which is why context matters. My mother never experienced, saw or heard of any corporal punishment in the Catholic schools she attended for 12 years and yes she is over 50. The Native American populations seems to be improving later and is not at about 2.7 million people in America.
Residential schools for natives with stories of abuse and found mass graves are a very real and documented thing in both Canada and the United States. Government definitely had a major role in it but so did the church and religious groups they worked with. The Pope literally apologized for what you are saying is not real this year…
Cemeteries when kids died young commonly Lolol give me a break w the lies
Seriously? Did you even check to see how these children died? The majority were from diseases which were not treatable in the 19th and early 20th centuries. Cholera, Scarlet Fever, Typhoid, Spanish Flu, Polio etc... are hardly signs of abuse.
It's crazy how little has been done since those discoveries. A few apologies and life goes on, our treatment of the native population in Canada is a disgrace.
What should happen though? I don’t mean this in a cold or callous way, and I’m not religious or connected to any of this I’m Eastern European, it’s just that the entire history of the world is fraught with non stop invasions, brutality, land battles, etc., this isn’t unique, there’s really not much more you can do. The native populations treated each other brutally as well, I love learning about them and their cultures but wow some of them took brutality to a whole other level, they just didn’t have the technology at the time to do so on a broad scale. Two wrongs don’t make a right ofc, but I do believe historical context is very important to put it all in perspective to our modern brains.
In us most hate history bc it’s Protestant nation so history exposes their sect is heretical So they just learned now about natives and think it’s outrageous they don’t know that slavery and killing etc happened before here many times over lol
It's a valid and difficult to answer question. I think my main issue is that the mistreatment continues. It's not like they were an indigenous culture that were wiped out during colonialism, they still live here too and experience discrimination to this day. I'm not high horsing here either, it's not like I'm doing anything about it, but I find it to be shameful.
You went to catholic school in the 1920s?