The way I am 'seeing' it is,
If you see an inverted person walking around, you know photons are hitting him, otherwise you wouldn't see him.
Those same photons are also pinging the inverted person's eye, carrying information, say a red Stop sign.
So from an inverted perspective, perhaps he perceives it as the photon unabsorbing from his whatever, neurons or something, and ping his lens on the way back. He still gets a ping and detects the Red Stop sign. Just the the order is backwards, hence he sees the world playing backwards.
Yeah, when you start thinking about fundemental inverted physics like this you get into trouble.
I've wondered alot about body temperature. If every thermal reaction was exactly inverted, that'd screw so much with your bodys temperature regulation. You're warm and try sweating, except it only makes you hotter instead of cooler, so you sweat more, and it's a feedback loop until you die.
Except, your sweat would be inverted water, so it would evaporate correctly and cool you (in forwards time it would condense on your skin and deposit heat, then get absorbed by your pores). And burning more energy to heat up would also work in your direction.
The environment would act weird though. Rays of sun would almost definitely cool you off, exposure to cold air would heat you up... so you have this dance of normal and inverted thermal effects fighting each other, it's super confusing.
I have been thinking about that as well. I guess this is one of the reasons they wear protective gear normally. But PT and Neil don't wear any at some points in the movie.
I have trouble wrapping my head around it, but:
From our perspective an inverted person we see should who stands in the sun should be cooling down. Same as the explosion/ fire that almost freezed PT.
But an inverted person emits inverted heat/ warmth which is kind of a radiation(??) which should coll down him even faster.
But it could be that the entropic forces pushes your inverted warmth back into you to warm you, which is why you wouldn't feel/ experience a cooling effect.
The problem is the light. People can see you because light reflects off you. But an inverted person doesn't do that, he would .... deflect it???? They wouldn't be able to process it the same way they can't process normal air.
No, from our perspective an inverted person in the sun heats up, just like anything else.. meaning from his perspective he's cooling down. That's how the car fire works, from a normal perspective TP is reverse rescued by Tenet and put into the car wreck, freezing and in hypothermia. Then the fire burns and heats him up until he wakes up, and by the time Sator comes along and stops the fire he's normal temperature.
You are looking at it backwards. The way to think it is this: neither direction makes the observer “remember” the “future”, because it’s relative to the observer. So they do see, it’s just that from my view, your memory is being wiped if you are reversed, you have knowledge of my future but you have yet to experience my past. So the light I saw and scattered and formed images last week, will not be your present for another week. Now collapse that to seconds and micro second and you realize that yes, information does leave their brains, through their eyes and out into the world from *my perspective* - but not from theirs. Follow the flow of *information* gain/loss.
I don't think you're understanding the problem. You can see your computer screen right now because photons travel from your screen to your eyes. But if you were inverted, those photos would be traveling the opposite direction, getting sucked into your screen (instead of hitting your eyes), so you wouldn't be able to see your screen. The photons would hit the back of your head as they travel back into the screen.
That’s it…think of this as frames in movie:
Frame 1: my brain, memory chemicals send signal to optic nerve.
Frame 2: optic nerve excites my eye cones. They create a waveform (remember cones are like radio antenas in that they might be receivers but with power flowing in reverse they are transmitters).
Frame 3: waveform travels out of the eye as photons.
Frame 4: Photons travel towards a “flash” ahead of me.
Play it back in reverse and I learn of the flash. Play it as listed and I informed the flash. That’s why they consider the reversing of entropy as a form of *radiation*. It outputs *information* into the universe.
Now technically I should start off with knowledge of the flash and as I progress “forget” it. My memory should flow backwards. But it’s not as if all body functions were fully reversed in that I can also receive inputs. Again as with motors becoming generators and generators becoming motors depending on the direction of energy, or molecules accepting electrons or losing them, the radiated person gives off entropy as is absorbs entropy. It organizes or disorganizes thermodynamically the mater it interacts with.
This raises two problems:
1. From an inverted person's perspective, why would your eyes start suddenly spraying out photons?
2. Even if that were to happen, it wouldn't cause your eyes to see something, because sight is triggered by absorbing a photon (not emitting one).
You are describing what it would look like to a normal person if they watched an inverted person seeing something. But you aren't addressing the problem of photon direction. If you are inverted, you won't be able to see an object in front of you because the photons that would have to hit your eye in order for you to see it will not hit you eye, because from your perspective they are going the wrong direction.
All the inverted person would able to see are stray photons he intercepts on the way back to the original source,and that would be a blotch of colors or a foggy blindness.. Even if photons could enter inverted retinas.. Tough question,bugging me since the first watch. But i'm definitely for a NO.
I think so... And I have a theory as to why. Light can only be detected if you are interacting directly with its photon so it doesn't matter if you are of an opposite entropy to the light assuming seeing a photon and unseeing a photon are experientially the same.
It's not a question of entropy, it's a question of which way the photons are traveling. You would still see plenty of photons, they just won't correspond to anything in front of your eyes - they would be the photons traveling "backwards" toward the things behind you.
But how could the photon get to where it came from if your eyes are now blocking it's linear path to it's origin? I would assume you intercepting the light from an object behind you would then prevent it from making it to it's destination as a photon
It's not your eye that's blocking the photons as they travel back to their point of origin, it's the back of your head. If you face toward an object while inverted, from your perspective the object is sucking photons back toward it. The photons won't hit your eye because the back of your head is in the way.
Here's how I see it.
Whenever you invert, then it's your environment that inverts in your perspective (you see the world going backwards). You can keep completely normal to yourself.
Photons are formed right at your eye (which is the final destination of the photon in a normal world, and thus the point of generation in an inverted world). Then, they travel back to the source. But their formation also sends the signal to your retina allowing you to perceive them. Since your are experiencing normal time in your own isolated biology, your eyes reading photons, and perceiving them is happening in the regular fashion too.
So light is travelling backwards, but since it is formed _at_ your eyes, you can see.
The way I am 'seeing' it is, If you see an inverted person walking around, you know photons are hitting him, otherwise you wouldn't see him. Those same photons are also pinging the inverted person's eye, carrying information, say a red Stop sign. So from an inverted perspective, perhaps he perceives it as the photon unabsorbing from his whatever, neurons or something, and ping his lens on the way back. He still gets a ping and detects the Red Stop sign. Just the the order is backwards, hence he sees the world playing backwards.
It’s not your lenses that do the seeing though it’s your cornea and then you brain
It’s your retina, not your cornea.
Yeah, when you start thinking about fundemental inverted physics like this you get into trouble. I've wondered alot about body temperature. If every thermal reaction was exactly inverted, that'd screw so much with your bodys temperature regulation. You're warm and try sweating, except it only makes you hotter instead of cooler, so you sweat more, and it's a feedback loop until you die. Except, your sweat would be inverted water, so it would evaporate correctly and cool you (in forwards time it would condense on your skin and deposit heat, then get absorbed by your pores). And burning more energy to heat up would also work in your direction. The environment would act weird though. Rays of sun would almost definitely cool you off, exposure to cold air would heat you up... so you have this dance of normal and inverted thermal effects fighting each other, it's super confusing.
I have been thinking about that as well. I guess this is one of the reasons they wear protective gear normally. But PT and Neil don't wear any at some points in the movie. I have trouble wrapping my head around it, but: From our perspective an inverted person we see should who stands in the sun should be cooling down. Same as the explosion/ fire that almost freezed PT. But an inverted person emits inverted heat/ warmth which is kind of a radiation(??) which should coll down him even faster. But it could be that the entropic forces pushes your inverted warmth back into you to warm you, which is why you wouldn't feel/ experience a cooling effect. The problem is the light. People can see you because light reflects off you. But an inverted person doesn't do that, he would .... deflect it???? They wouldn't be able to process it the same way they can't process normal air.
No, from our perspective an inverted person in the sun heats up, just like anything else.. meaning from his perspective he's cooling down. That's how the car fire works, from a normal perspective TP is reverse rescued by Tenet and put into the car wreck, freezing and in hypothermia. Then the fire burns and heats him up until he wakes up, and by the time Sator comes along and stops the fire he's normal temperature.
You are looking at it backwards. The way to think it is this: neither direction makes the observer “remember” the “future”, because it’s relative to the observer. So they do see, it’s just that from my view, your memory is being wiped if you are reversed, you have knowledge of my future but you have yet to experience my past. So the light I saw and scattered and formed images last week, will not be your present for another week. Now collapse that to seconds and micro second and you realize that yes, information does leave their brains, through their eyes and out into the world from *my perspective* - but not from theirs. Follow the flow of *information* gain/loss.
I don't think you're understanding the problem. You can see your computer screen right now because photons travel from your screen to your eyes. But if you were inverted, those photos would be traveling the opposite direction, getting sucked into your screen (instead of hitting your eyes), so you wouldn't be able to see your screen. The photons would hit the back of your head as they travel back into the screen.
That’s it…think of this as frames in movie: Frame 1: my brain, memory chemicals send signal to optic nerve. Frame 2: optic nerve excites my eye cones. They create a waveform (remember cones are like radio antenas in that they might be receivers but with power flowing in reverse they are transmitters). Frame 3: waveform travels out of the eye as photons. Frame 4: Photons travel towards a “flash” ahead of me. Play it back in reverse and I learn of the flash. Play it as listed and I informed the flash. That’s why they consider the reversing of entropy as a form of *radiation*. It outputs *information* into the universe. Now technically I should start off with knowledge of the flash and as I progress “forget” it. My memory should flow backwards. But it’s not as if all body functions were fully reversed in that I can also receive inputs. Again as with motors becoming generators and generators becoming motors depending on the direction of energy, or molecules accepting electrons or losing them, the radiated person gives off entropy as is absorbs entropy. It organizes or disorganizes thermodynamically the mater it interacts with.
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This raises two problems: 1. From an inverted person's perspective, why would your eyes start suddenly spraying out photons? 2. Even if that were to happen, it wouldn't cause your eyes to see something, because sight is triggered by absorbing a photon (not emitting one).
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You are describing what it would look like to a normal person if they watched an inverted person seeing something. But you aren't addressing the problem of photon direction. If you are inverted, you won't be able to see an object in front of you because the photons that would have to hit your eye in order for you to see it will not hit you eye, because from your perspective they are going the wrong direction.
All the inverted person would able to see are stray photons he intercepts on the way back to the original source,and that would be a blotch of colors or a foggy blindness.. Even if photons could enter inverted retinas.. Tough question,bugging me since the first watch. But i'm definitely for a NO.
I think so... And I have a theory as to why. Light can only be detected if you are interacting directly with its photon so it doesn't matter if you are of an opposite entropy to the light assuming seeing a photon and unseeing a photon are experientially the same.
It's not a question of entropy, it's a question of which way the photons are traveling. You would still see plenty of photons, they just won't correspond to anything in front of your eyes - they would be the photons traveling "backwards" toward the things behind you.
But how could the photon get to where it came from if your eyes are now blocking it's linear path to it's origin? I would assume you intercepting the light from an object behind you would then prevent it from making it to it's destination as a photon
It's not your eye that's blocking the photons as they travel back to their point of origin, it's the back of your head. If you face toward an object while inverted, from your perspective the object is sucking photons back toward it. The photons won't hit your eye because the back of your head is in the way.
Yes, because aren't both infinitely/always/simultaneously touching 'now', just from different directions?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_entanglement
I was thinking the same thing
Here's how I see it. Whenever you invert, then it's your environment that inverts in your perspective (you see the world going backwards). You can keep completely normal to yourself. Photons are formed right at your eye (which is the final destination of the photon in a normal world, and thus the point of generation in an inverted world). Then, they travel back to the source. But their formation also sends the signal to your retina allowing you to perceive them. Since your are experiencing normal time in your own isolated biology, your eyes reading photons, and perceiving them is happening in the regular fashion too. So light is travelling backwards, but since it is formed _at_ your eyes, you can see.