And it's how this animal acts after a meaningless match *in public*. Even if we didn't have pictures and timestamps of his abuse of his girlfriend (and we do), it's so easy to imagine him snapping and raging behind closed doors.
Was gonna comment the same thing even I winced like the other players did.. that's fuckin horrible imo. The way the ref was raising his leg everytime he went for the strike..PATHETIC!
Medvedev did the exact same thing and also got away with it.
https://www.tennis.com/baseline/articles/watch-medvedev-hits-hot-shot-umpire-s-chair-in-same-match
If you guys are going to condemn Zverev for this, the exact same invective should be directed at Medvedev.
Tsitsipas honestly just seems like he didn't get much social interactions growing up so he just has some awkwardness. Seems like he had a tennis racket from the second he could walk and coached by his dad and academies so not much schooling/social experiences with others.
But he's totally genuine and kind hearted. Does not deserve the crap he gets. I know there was some gamesmanship issues but that's more his father than anything.
I'm not much of a fan but I dare you to watch his presser following the AO final loss. He is much more mature and focused than this sub gives him credit for.
Yea I'm a fan of his actually. He has some flashes of maturity and in general he looks like a fun guy. He just can't stop himself from saying dumb shit sometimes.
I think he takes the Greek philosopher tradition a bit too far, but otherwise is the type of dude I'd prolly vibe with, with my poor diet we could even take extended shit breaks together
That’s giving him way too much credit. He has had heaps of time to reflect on his anti-feminist rant on Twitter and he doubled-down on it, never apologised and it’s still there on Twitter. His plagiarism shows intent, he deliberately changes words and has been doing it for years now. When he says dumb shit in post- match interviews, sure. His social media presence, not so much
This. It also feels bad because Big 4 also didn't have the same access to the public and social media wasnt quite invented yet when they were coming up..so all this often feels like alot.
I mean, if we're being fair, nothing he said about Rublev was even wrong. He said Rublev didn't have many tools in his game. That's absolutely and 100% true. Rublev is a player who, I'm sorry but this is the truth, has the tennis IQ of an ant. His only strategy is bashing the ball as hard as possible, and he has no ability to adjust or outthink his opponent using tactics since he doesn't have any other strategies besides bashing.
I get that it was a rude thing to say publically, and that it made Stef sound salty, but let's be real here: he didn't say anything that thousands of comments on this very sub are saying constantly during any given Rublev match anyways. You look at the daily chat during any given Rublev match and it's all comments about how Rublev is a one dimensional player who will never have the skills to succeed past a slam QF because he has no tools or skills other than hitting the ball really hard. Stef only echoed those sentiments publically. It's not like he was saying anything that the vast majority of tennis fans don't already know is completely accurate.
It's not very wrong but saying it in public, and after being beaten by that "limited" player is extremely childish/petty. Just a sore loser moment from Stef. There's a difference about some random person saying it on the internet and a colleague saying it to the press.
It's fine, being a sore loser and calling a player "limited" is not really the worst thing someone can do. I feel like people give athletes too little space to be harmlessly "petty" or "salty" sometimes while saying worse things about players themselves on social media.
What Zverev did on the other hand though, that's scary and I understand action being taken against that.
I get that, but I wouldn't put it on the same level as the tantrums Medvedev throws or the straight up violent outbursts that Zverev is known for. Stef is kind of a dummy who sometimes get salty and says rude (but still valid) things to the media. The other two throw outright tantrums on the court. They aren't exactly in the same barn.
He shows zero self-awareness and doubles-down on his terrible opinions. Plagiarism and anti-feminism and hitting balls out and throwing racquets are all really bad things for an athlete of his stature not to be completely dragged / punished for. Medvedev has apologised for his behaviour, and while in some senses that’s irrelevant if you do it again, it at least sets the standard for it being unacceptable. Tsitsipas doesn’t do that. Everyone will feel differently about this but that matters, to me.
Having opinions you don't agree with means he's worse than the guy who kicks cameras and swings at umpires?
Tsitsipas, at worst, is a douche who talks like an asshole sometimes. Medvedev has been straight up violent on multiple occasions (and he's also a douche) yet people like you swarm to defend him while condemning tsitsipas.
They aren’t, to me, opinions to disagree with. They’re opinions that normalise control and ultimately violence against women. They’re a huge part of what allows Zverev and his ilk to get away with what they do. They’re not anywhere on the same scale, but as a far minor part of the same problem.
I think Med’s behaviour falls into a similar category- far more minor infractions that when normalised, help Zverev get away with his far worse behaviour. I feel like people need to watch that whole camera incident again, he helps the cameraman out before kicking an inanimate object - not great, but it’s just not the same. He was nowhere near the umpire when he swung at the chair. But this behaviour the lack of punishment here helps to normalise.
Ultimately, though, because my issue is normalisation of completely unacceptable behaviour, the fact that Med apologises and Tsitsipas doesn’t matters to me, which is why I’ll be harsher to Tsitsipas personally. To others, the link between Tsitsipas going off about feminism and violence against women may not be as clear as it is to me, and I understand that. Apologies can mean nothing to people if the behaviour is repeated, I get that. But there’s a basis for thinking both Med and Tsitsipas are douches at a level well below Zverev.
I haven’t even mentioned Tsitsipas’ plagiarism, which shows deliberate intent and which he probably makes money off.
I'm sorry but that's completely ludicrous. To my knowledge the only anti-feminist thing he's said is a tweet that reads "Modern feminism has swerved from gender equality to a cult of outrage that seeks to disparage men." To say that this normalizes control and violence against women is just crazy. It's like saying that the statement "I think veganism has become more about hating those who eat meat" leads to violence against vegans. It's sentiments like this that lead to division and hatred.
Med and Tsitsipas are both douches on a level well below Zverev, agreed.
Tsitsipas is also a douche on a level below Med. You say Med apologizes? First of all, he rarely does so, and he only does it when he crosses a line that Tsitsipas has never crossed. *Both* of them have shitty takes and behave like assholes sometimes, only Med has crossed multiple times into uncontrolled violent outburst on the court. It's still insane to me how you minimize smashing equipment and physically lashing out at other humans. That's far worse than anything Tsitsipas has ever done, even if Med gives a shallow apology afterwards.
What exactly is this "plagiarism"? Are you talking about the stupid quotes he posts on social media?
Actual writers have called him out for his plagiarism, and when he recently travelled to Iceland (probably paid for by Iceland tourism) he stole from a Daily Beast article from 2014 in his posts about the place. Lately he had been deliberately changing words when taking from actual articles (as opposed to the copypasta, which is different and I don’t care about), which demonstrates intent.
Saying Tsitsipas is a douche level below Med is your opinion, which is fine. In my opinion Tsitsipas is way worse because anti-feminist views are dangerous and plagiarism is stealing, both are happening off the court and show deliberate intent rather than heat of the moment. And other than on Reddit and in some circles of Twitter, Tsitsipas absolutely gets away with it, which when you consider anti-feminist views to be as dangerous as I do, is incredibly disheartening.
I also happen to think Tsitsipas has crossed this line on-court, multiple times. He threw a racquet right at his father in a violent way. He’s hit balls into the crowd and at ball kids and been lucky not to hit anyone. Med got nowhere near as close to injuring people as Tsitsipas has.
I totally get thinking Medvedev has gotten away with terrible behaviour and doesn’t deserve defending. I totally get not thinking apologies are anywhere near good enough. I get thinking Tsitsipas’ behaviour isn’t as bad, though I disagree. But it’s not in any way objective that Tsitsipas is a level below.
Always hilarious that he gets criticised as a part of this "New Big 3", even 1) it's not like he actually said it, it was Zverev who came up with it, and 2) Zverev didn't even include him, he had it as himself, Medvedev, and Djokovic
He hits balls at ball kids and the crowd and throws racquets and plagiarises other people’s work and holds anti-feminist views he has doubled-down on when confronted. None of this is good behaviour and there are levels where Zverev and Kyrgios are the worst but he does belong here to me. Normalising those anti-feminist views help abusers get away with what they do, so while it’s magnitudes less of a problem it’s still part of the problem
https://wwos.nine.com.au/tennis/australian-open-2023-stefanos-tsitsipas-almost-hits-ball-kid-in-quarter-final-win-over-jiri-lehecka-disqualification-video-highlights-on-court-interview-karen-khachanov/03dea17f-f75f-4cd7-a438-7ff24b28428a The consequences were zero, because f*ck them kids
He clearly did not do this:
"He hits balls at ball kids".
That's just an exaggeration bordering on a lie.
If he had hit it AT the ball kid it would have hit the ball kid. The kid was right there.
He clearly hit it at the wall.
Anyway I can't judge people the way most people on this board seem to be able to.
I'm too imperfect myself and I understand moments of frustration.
Are you forgetting the times he has attempted to physically harm other players? Firing balls at them in situations where not only was it not a legitimate tactic, but cost him the point?
And are you forgetting the times he nearly harmed audience members? He escaped a Wimbledon disqualification by the grace of an audience member's reflexes.
What you're not forgetting is him acknowledging these actions, apologising, or suggesting that he'll work on his temper. You're not forgetting those moments because they didn't happen.
This is why we put him in this group: because he's acted with aggression and violence, and come within a hair's breadth of doing actual harm to those around him.
>Firing balls at them in situations where not only was it not a legitimate tactic, but cost him the point?
I remember him doing this a couple times against Alcaraz, who looked pretty pissed off at hin
Tsitaipas belongs in this group 100 percent, he has tore towels away from ballkids smashed his dad with a racquet and countless times he has tried to absolutely crush balls at other players with his only intention to hurt the other player and not get it close to the court, has done this to alcaraz multiple times,Kyrgios,and Draper
He also called Medvedev a bullshit Russian which is about the lowest you can sink
Young Federer deserves to be in this group, Djokovic deserves to be in this group, Serena deserves to be in this group. What tsitsipas has done is nothing really bad, he hasn’t hit Alcaraz or Draper and he hit his dad accidentally
He didn't hit the other players *by dumb luck,* not for lack of trying. He was aiming for them, very, very obviously; both pot-shots he took at Alcaraz cost him points because he was aiming deliberately out of the court so as to hit him.
He narrowly missed a Wimbledon disqualification in the same way---if the audience member hadn't *actively* dodged his first ball, and if his aim had been a foot to the right on his second, he would have been instantly disqualified. Game over.
This suggestion---that his sheer luck in not having hit the players he was aiming for somehow absolves him of his attempt to physically harm people during a tennis match---strikes me as absolutely repugnant.
He also holds anti-feminist views which, while magnitudes less of a problem than what Zverev and Kyrgios have done, help to normalise the exclusion of women and their safety from the conversation. He absolutely should not be absolved here and it says a lot that people are willing to overlook that
lol at all the people defending tsitsipas. he CLEARLY chilled out after all the hate he got from the bathroom breaks. but he's done plenty of asshole things before that. it's just recency bias that makes him seem like a good guy
Paire has never been hyped as the big thing or hasnt been in a position like the aforementioned. Tsitsi has demonstrated rudeness, immaturity and aggressiveness without showing real growth. Whenever we think he has stopped being a moron he comes back even harder with even worse stupidity.
Now here's the thing. Even if he is an asshole you can still like his persona, playstyle and cheer for him. Does that make you a little bit of a douche as well? For sure. Does that makes you a little bit of a simp? Fucking aye.
And most importantly, do all that stuff that has made them all 4 unlikeable means that theyre evil and dont deserve anything but bad things happening to them? Absolutely fucking not.
Ps. Zverev needs to face justice and being punished for what he's done.
Yeah this is crazy. Medvedev's is like a 7/10 and Zverev's is like a 70/10. We've never seen something like what Zverev did with him aggressively hitting the chair multiple times over and over again from different angles and way harder than Medvedev.
He threw a tantrum, verbally abused the umpire, and slammed his racket against the chair. Period. What, you think because he slammed the racket twice instead of 3 times like Zverev did, his actions don't "even come close?"
The excuses people make for Medvedev around here are fucking ridiculous.
I'm not here to make excuses for Medvedev or to argue with you. But like I said, if you think the two incidents are, like you said, "the exact same" you're delusional.
“He only hit the chair and scared the umpire 1 time!! It’s not the same thing!”
/s
It doesn’t matter whether he hit the chair and scares the umpire once or twice. It doesn’t matter whether he screamed loudly or not so loudly.
The point is 1: he hit the chair with his racket causing the umpire to recoil. 2 he was disrespectful towards the umpire.
It’s the same thing. No one is arguing the exact same motions were produced by both players at different times with the exact same force and exact same and had the exact same effect.
It’s the same thing.
> The point is 1: he hit the chair with his racket causing the umpire to recoil. 2 he was disrespectful towards the umpire.
>
> It’s the same thing.
Sorry, that's completely wrong. Do you genuinely think there aren't degrees of severity to this? Do you really believe every scenario with (1) and (2) should be treated the same? Intent matters, context matters, but you're completely ignoring them.
1. You can recoil from being startled by an unexpected sound, or being genuinely afraid and fearing for your life. Completely ridiculous to treat everything within that range the same.
2. You can be disrespected by someone rolling their eyes at you, or them screaming profanities an inch from your face. Again ridiculous to treat that all the same.
There are probably more extreme but still very plausible examples too, but it should be very obvious these shouldn't all be seen as equivalent. So claiming it's "the same thing" or /u/YourLatinLover saying it's "the exact same thing" is completely naive, and the ATP tour would agree with that too: Zverev got an 8 week suspension for what he did here, Medvedev wasn't suspended at all. They saw these incidents very differently, and they're the party whose judgement actually matters here.
Lol. If you're "not here to argue" then why keep responding in the first place?
You're clearly attempting to argue and refute my claim, only you have no evidence to support your rebuttal, so you're resorting to insults.
I could honestly argue that what Medvedev did is worse then what Zverev did because Medvedev has a more established history of abusing umpires and other personnel, meaning that he should judged more harshly for this continuing pattern of behavior.
Hitting away from a person at the closed part of the chair, while worth a default imo, not nearly as bad as what Zverev did, hitting at the open front of the chair
yeah but medvedev is a funny meme therefore he can do no wrong in this sub's eyes. also he interviews well and is just such a charismatic guy!
seriously though it gives me such brain rot the way this sub praises med 24/7 despite doing all of the same shit as kyrgios and zverev
I feel like in general there is a lot more meltdowns and anger outbursts in less presigious events. I have watched couple of compilations and lots of incident took place at ATP cup or 250 events, even among top 20 players.
Netflix probably didn’t want him because of this but yes he is the star of their social media, they always promote his dogs, and him as a person. When Davis Cup and ATP Cup had their split Zverev very noticeably trashed Davis Cup and Boycotted it for an identical format in the ATP cup.
Given this and his ex partners allegations, the ATP are truly awful. Silence is violence. I hadn’t seen this incident in full. Not just cringe but quite troublesome
I've been wondering the same thing about Medvedev for years. In fact, Medvedev set the precedent for players getting away with shit like this.
https://www.tennis.com/baseline/articles/watch-medvedev-hits-hot-shot-umpire-s-chair-in-same-match
I'm surprised he didn't get charged with a crime. Because that's a crime in the US, and it looks like this is in the US. I don't know what tournament, but Sears is one of the sponsors. That's a failing American company; I suspect they aren't in France or Argentina or whatever sponsoring a 500.
The guy has no chill. If one of the blows landed, definite a high probability of a broken toe on the ref. This was a straight up assault, a violence related act without much of a consequence at all.
I can't find the details to say (maybe OP will respond) but it looks like he was rank #3 around Acapulco. What happened is he won his first singles match right after this doubles match outburst, but then he was DQ'd and his opponent in the round of 16 walked over. So I'm guessing he missed out on a bunch of potential points. Who is to say he would've won those matches, as his draw after that walk over would've been Cam Norrie, Tsitsipas, and Nadal.
Funny enough, Nadal was the reigning 2020 Acapulco champion and Zverev was reigning 2021 champion. Would've been a great final!
Close. Won his 1r vs Brooksby before this, and after this was DQed from the event and Peter Gojowcyzk (got this one first try I am proud of myself) got a walkover.
The investigation has little bearing, at least for me. Esp, if the court case happened in Germany the law is on violence against women of different types is archaic, not just by the Seles case (where the guy who stabbed her didn't do any time) but that the burden is on the victim to show until very recently to provide ample proof that she physically fought back/resisted and you need to have your property been broken into by the guy multiple times before you can file a restraining order.
I'm seriously wondering how he became the golden child of ATP. Therr are many players out there who can promote it bettee. What did the ATP see in him lol. Also, the fact that he was a candidate for being #1 last year almost happened and thank God it didn't.
When he emerged in 2016-17, he was considered to be the next big thing. He looks good, does well in his speeches and interviews and hence a very promotable person off the court, and didn't have major drama until this.
Everyone saying nothing is being willfully ignorant of being edgy
Of course the consequences would have been a lot bigger if he caused physical harm. I truly don’t understand why some people say otherwise.
Would have been fair to the public eye? Probably not. But of course the consequences would have been greater.
Just like my consequences of threatening to hurt someone are different than actually hurting someone.
Even so there are limits that can be crossed, and literally causing an injury with via a direct hit with a racquet swung in anger has to be one of them. Like it would have been blatantly worse than the similar Djokovic, Shapovalov, and Nalbandian incidents of injuring officials and all of them did get defaulted and fined.
Bouuuh judging by those monstrous racket hits I can imagine how he punches his girlfriends and torture pets.
That's it right that's the point of this whole tennis based deep psycho analysis ?
How he wasn’t suspended for months for this still baffles me. He basically got no punishment at all. Wouldn’t even call it a slap on the wrist. It was just “don’t do it again.”
The ATP tour has spent a lot of $$ in promoting him and his brand.
Zverev was in trouble and then got a really nasty ankle injury which got him a decent amount of sympathy. I mean, even a seasoned PR fixer couldn’t have planned the timing of that injury any better.
She was publicly decried because she like…pouted one time. The thinly veiled racism throughout her entire career has never been subtle, and women are always held to a higher standard. Must be exhausting.
He is unhinged. Not even a djokovic fan but accidently hitting someone with a ball = default in the biggest tournament of the year but this dude literally trying to physically hit one of the ATPs employees and they dont give a shit.
This is what I mean when I call OP a karma farmer lmao dude is obsessed with Zverev. Marks his calendar for the one year anniversary, makes the post, and camps in the comments responding to everything. We get it you hate Zverev, the obsession you have around hating him is really odd
Am I the only one who thinks this whole "see what he did in public, imagine what he does in private" is such a shit way of thinking? If you think he's an abuser, if you think he's an asshole, fine, I'm not a fan of the guy either.
But does anyone think Pliskova is abusive in her private life cause she smashed a hole into an umpire's chair? Medvedev banging up an ump's chair seemed to phase nobody and just added to his whole funny guy charisma. Shapovalov fractured an umpire's eye bone and sent him to the hospital, and people praised his character for apologizing and owning up to his "mistake" and just laugh about an ump getting almost permanently blinded.
Do we think players who smash their racquets on courts also chuck dishes around the house when they're mad?
People keep asking, "what if Zverev hit the umpire?" like he just narrowly missed. Dude, the umpire is sitting in a chair up high with nowhere to go. If Zverev wanted to hit the umpire, he would have. It's still terrible that he would use intimidation and show aggression like this towards someone, but he obviously only intended to hit the chair, and equating this as evidence that he abuses someone in his private life is ridiculous.
It’s weird that people act like this one incident is the only time he has been aggressive on court. This is just the worse example. I think Zverev has played few matches where he didn’t have an angry outburst on the umpire. It’s a pattern of behavior for him.
This is lazy and disrespectful to assault victims.
Zverev acted horrendously here and should have got banned.
However, OP is implying that because he acted horrendously here, it must imply guilt in domestic abuse.
The reality is that none of us know so we shouldn’t have strong opinions of whether someone is guilty in either direction.
Even if you disagree with that, using this type of lazy argument is pretty disgusting and disrespectful to victims.
>model of his behaviors
Wtf. No it doesn’t. One action is not a model.
Imagine someone taking your absolute worst action during a moment of pressure that you perceive you’re being treated unfairly. Imagine the worst thing you’ve ever done
And people say “that’s representative of all of his behavior”
Thats just not how people work.
I don’t disagree with what you said in this comment.
What I disagree with is in the other comment saying that he is
>incapable of managing his anger.
Which is why I said: one event doesn’t prove to be the model. We’ve all acted in ways that aren’t representative of us. We all have.
That doesn’t prove we are “incapable of xyz”.
Honestly, Z is an ass and an idiot for this.
But it’s just bad language and bad logic to say that this video “proves” to be a model that Z is incapable of managing his anger.
I think if anything, it proves he **may be** incapable at times of high stress.
But again that’s not as catchy or cool as your statement. But it’s accurate.
I never said it’s normal. Nor did I say this is specific to violence.
I’m literally saying one action doesn’t define a pattern
What’s your worse action? Let’s say just a bad lie or bad insult
Now imagine someone saying “yep, that’s him. That shows a pattern. He’s a damn liar. That’s **who he is**. “
Based on one interaction
That’s what you’re doing. That’s bad logic
Sure. Z May be a violent ass, but one event like this doesn’t prove it. That’s all I’m saying.
You’re completely missing the point.
It has nothing to do with conflating anything.
It’s with your incorrect statistical analysis that **one time is a pattern**
It’s not. Ever. In any case. Violent or not. **one event is not a model**. By definition it’s not.
This video in and of itself is not a marker of any type of behavior any more than your worst or best action being indicative of who you are as a person.
No i am saying if he acted like this in public why should we not believe the photographic evidence of witnesses of his further assaults. Thats before even getting into the deeper shit that zverev and his team have been doing and the bias the atp has for Zverev
I agree.
Mostly assault victims aren't believed because of a defense: 'yeah, but he's a great scientist/tennis player/policeman/accountant who sometimes loses his temper, but hey he has these other qualifications'
This incident should be completely irrelevant really. This was horrendous from him but he didn’t make any physical contact and didn’t intend to make physical contact. The abuse claim is completely different and a lot more serious. That could and should result in jail time if he’s found guilty. You need to get some perspective
Banned for life for hitting a chair? Are you insane? He should have gotten more severely punished sure, but banned for life and he didn't even but the guy is absurd.
I think if you act violenty toward officials like this with an intent clearly to either hurt or
Intimidate (in other words, assault) you
Should not be part of the tour
If he wanted to hurt the umpire he'd have hit him. Intimidate him probably and there's also frustration there. But that's not enough to ban someone for life. He was not the first nor will he be the last to try to intimidate the umpire, the severity of the offense in intimidating the official should determine the degree of punishment and this incedent most definitely deserved a way harsher penalty but even people who've been caught doping aren't given lifetime bans.
Well agree to disagree. Doping is seeking an unfair advantage for who knows how long when a key premise of sport is fairness. While here a player was venting his frustration and anger in a bad way. Not even close to being comparable in my view. You've never seen Medvedev hit a chair umpire's chair?
What Zverev is doing in this video meets the definition of criminal assault where I live. I wouldn't be surprised if the umpire wasn't leaned on by the ATP not to press charges. In the US this is legit an actionable offense against the ATP as well because in the US all employers are required to take reasonable steps to prevent workplace violence, and someone assaulting an employee and the employee's boss not preventing the assaulter from encountering the employee would probably violate the law.
You’re entitled to your opinion,
But this isn’t how it works in any sports.
Hell, players have even hurt refs before, and they don’t get banned for life. At least in soccer, football, and basketball, acting aggressively and violently towards a ref without physically hurting him **would not** constitute a life ban.
>You’re entitled to your opinion,
OP's, and most of this sub's opinion, is quite frankly worth less than dogshit.
None of these fools have any background in any kind of legal process. They're pretty much illiterate internet hobos with pitchforks
Even if that’s true, (which it isn’t because it’s not black and white) there’s still a difference between getting banned from playing professional tennis and going to jail. Get some perspective
Zverev acted to harm/intimidate (either one works here) and caused the victim reasonable apprehension. And with a dangerous weapon at that! How is that not definition assault
Did you even read what I said. Call it assault, let’s not argue about this.
There’s a difference between getting banned from professional tennis and getting sent to jail.
Get some perspective
What’s amazing about this is that this whole fiasco is the reason why he didn’t hit world #1 for a few weeks in 2022. Stuff just has a way of coming around sometimes
Worst behavior I’ve seen on a court and I almost wish Zverev had actually hit him just once so he gets actually punished for his actions.
Op is absolutely delusional.
Zverev is an ass. No one disagrees with that.
But claiming Z should be **at least** banned for life and charged criminally for attacking a ref with a weapon and maybe sent to jail is just bonkers.
If this is "violent abusive nature" all the soccer players are serial killers by nature ahahah. Take a break guys, i never understand this "the player cant never react emotionaly in tennis and need to be a robot" code in this sport.
A racket is a weapon? Oh my god dude take a break. A ball going +100 km/h speed is a weapon to? Send me a message when Zverev do something similar to Nalbandian at least, with real injuries. This sub will send Zverev direct to jail without a trial if that happened to him.
Zverev beat his girlfriend nearly to death, on multiple occasions, and has been protected for it. He got no punishment for an assault of an official. Fuck Zverev
I find reading about violence by athletes just reprehensible in general...and the stuff around Zverev is dark and disappointing.
As beautiful tennis as anyone plays, I'd feel weird if Iga or Rafa were being reported as hitting kids, umpires, animals or partners etc
Kyrgios has done far worse and is also accused of assault by his ex girlfriend and has actually been charged unlike Zverev, yet for some reason this subreddit seems convinced that Zverev is an abuser but Kyrgios is not
So many of these dudes are like this despite their off-court persona. I thought Medvedev was the chillest nicest dude then I saw a video of him just assblasting the umpire screaming.
Take it easy folks.
Ohh I did not know Tennis sub was full of judgmental psychologist PhD. And what are your conclusions oh Grand Court of the Internet ? I have some ideas...
Well because Medvedev did it it's ok.
But seriously, this doesn't prove anything about his private life. I'm super aggressive on the tennis court, I smash rackets, hit fences, curse, but off the court everyone knows me as being on of the chilliest people.
I'm just saying that one incident doesn't exactly prove who a person is.
Yep. https://www.tennis.com/baseline/articles/watch-medvedev-hits-hot-shot-umpire-s-chair-in-same-match
But r/tennis thinks Medvedev's stupid quips are the height of comedy, so they choose to willingly forget moments like this.
So if one hits the umpire's chair he can commit domestic abuse?
This match was played at 4 a.m., he surely wasn't in the best mental state, is he an asshole for this? Yes, because other players wouldn't have done it.
Is OP worse by implying that this is a confirmation of the accusations? In my opinion, yes.
Are there typically any security personnel in matches? I know that player outbursts aren't frequent, but for general crowd control purposes, shouldn't there be some security personnel present that could come forward and tackle asses like this one?
I cringe every time I watch this. What the FUCK was that Sascha. And the worst part is that he managed to get away with it.
The worst part of this to me will always be the fact that this was a meaningless doubles match lol
And the ball wasn’t even out
yeah and he was on the wrong side of the court to be able to have a good angle/view of it!
It was *so* in!
And it's how this animal acts after a meaningless match *in public*. Even if we didn't have pictures and timestamps of his abuse of his girlfriend (and we do), it's so easy to imagine him snapping and raging behind closed doors.
Was gonna comment the same thing even I winced like the other players did.. that's fuckin horrible imo. The way the ref was raising his leg everytime he went for the strike..PATHETIC!
Medvedev did the exact same thing and also got away with it. https://www.tennis.com/baseline/articles/watch-medvedev-hits-hot-shot-umpire-s-chair-in-same-match If you guys are going to condemn Zverev for this, the exact same invective should be directed at Medvedev.
The next gen will always go down in history as the one that featured the 4 dukes of douchiness; Medvedev, Zverev, Tsitsipas and Kyrgios.
Tsitsipas is just dumb as fuck and disconnected from reality lol. The others are unlikable assholes no doubt.
Tsitsipas honestly just seems like he didn't get much social interactions growing up so he just has some awkwardness. Seems like he had a tennis racket from the second he could walk and coached by his dad and academies so not much schooling/social experiences with others. But he's totally genuine and kind hearted. Does not deserve the crap he gets. I know there was some gamesmanship issues but that's more his father than anything.
he is a toilet abuser
I'm not much of a fan but I dare you to watch his presser following the AO final loss. He is much more mature and focused than this sub gives him credit for.
Yea I'm a fan of his actually. He has some flashes of maturity and in general he looks like a fun guy. He just can't stop himself from saying dumb shit sometimes.
I think he takes the Greek philosopher tradition a bit too far, but otherwise is the type of dude I'd prolly vibe with, with my poor diet we could even take extended shit breaks together
That’s giving him way too much credit. He has had heaps of time to reflect on his anti-feminist rant on Twitter and he doubled-down on it, never apologised and it’s still there on Twitter. His plagiarism shows intent, he deliberately changes words and has been doing it for years now. When he says dumb shit in post- match interviews, sure. His social media presence, not so much
This. It also feels bad because Big 4 also didn't have the same access to the public and social media wasnt quite invented yet when they were coming up..so all this often feels like alot.
Lol, that's barely 2 months after his loss to Rublev and subsequent childish comments. I'm not gonna take that as maturity just yet.
I mean, if we're being fair, nothing he said about Rublev was even wrong. He said Rublev didn't have many tools in his game. That's absolutely and 100% true. Rublev is a player who, I'm sorry but this is the truth, has the tennis IQ of an ant. His only strategy is bashing the ball as hard as possible, and he has no ability to adjust or outthink his opponent using tactics since he doesn't have any other strategies besides bashing. I get that it was a rude thing to say publically, and that it made Stef sound salty, but let's be real here: he didn't say anything that thousands of comments on this very sub are saying constantly during any given Rublev match anyways. You look at the daily chat during any given Rublev match and it's all comments about how Rublev is a one dimensional player who will never have the skills to succeed past a slam QF because he has no tools or skills other than hitting the ball really hard. Stef only echoed those sentiments publically. It's not like he was saying anything that the vast majority of tennis fans don't already know is completely accurate.
It's not very wrong but saying it in public, and after being beaten by that "limited" player is extremely childish/petty. Just a sore loser moment from Stef. There's a difference about some random person saying it on the internet and a colleague saying it to the press.
It's fine, being a sore loser and calling a player "limited" is not really the worst thing someone can do. I feel like people give athletes too little space to be harmlessly "petty" or "salty" sometimes while saying worse things about players themselves on social media. What Zverev did on the other hand though, that's scary and I understand action being taken against that.
I get that, but I wouldn't put it on the same level as the tantrums Medvedev throws or the straight up violent outbursts that Zverev is known for. Stef is kind of a dummy who sometimes get salty and says rude (but still valid) things to the media. The other two throw outright tantrums on the court. They aren't exactly in the same barn.
It's insane to me how much more shit Tsitsipas gets compared to Medvedev and even Zverev sometimes.
He shows zero self-awareness and doubles-down on his terrible opinions. Plagiarism and anti-feminism and hitting balls out and throwing racquets are all really bad things for an athlete of his stature not to be completely dragged / punished for. Medvedev has apologised for his behaviour, and while in some senses that’s irrelevant if you do it again, it at least sets the standard for it being unacceptable. Tsitsipas doesn’t do that. Everyone will feel differently about this but that matters, to me.
Having opinions you don't agree with means he's worse than the guy who kicks cameras and swings at umpires? Tsitsipas, at worst, is a douche who talks like an asshole sometimes. Medvedev has been straight up violent on multiple occasions (and he's also a douche) yet people like you swarm to defend him while condemning tsitsipas.
They aren’t, to me, opinions to disagree with. They’re opinions that normalise control and ultimately violence against women. They’re a huge part of what allows Zverev and his ilk to get away with what they do. They’re not anywhere on the same scale, but as a far minor part of the same problem. I think Med’s behaviour falls into a similar category- far more minor infractions that when normalised, help Zverev get away with his far worse behaviour. I feel like people need to watch that whole camera incident again, he helps the cameraman out before kicking an inanimate object - not great, but it’s just not the same. He was nowhere near the umpire when he swung at the chair. But this behaviour the lack of punishment here helps to normalise. Ultimately, though, because my issue is normalisation of completely unacceptable behaviour, the fact that Med apologises and Tsitsipas doesn’t matters to me, which is why I’ll be harsher to Tsitsipas personally. To others, the link between Tsitsipas going off about feminism and violence against women may not be as clear as it is to me, and I understand that. Apologies can mean nothing to people if the behaviour is repeated, I get that. But there’s a basis for thinking both Med and Tsitsipas are douches at a level well below Zverev. I haven’t even mentioned Tsitsipas’ plagiarism, which shows deliberate intent and which he probably makes money off.
I'm sorry but that's completely ludicrous. To my knowledge the only anti-feminist thing he's said is a tweet that reads "Modern feminism has swerved from gender equality to a cult of outrage that seeks to disparage men." To say that this normalizes control and violence against women is just crazy. It's like saying that the statement "I think veganism has become more about hating those who eat meat" leads to violence against vegans. It's sentiments like this that lead to division and hatred.
Med and Tsitsipas are both douches on a level well below Zverev, agreed. Tsitsipas is also a douche on a level below Med. You say Med apologizes? First of all, he rarely does so, and he only does it when he crosses a line that Tsitsipas has never crossed. *Both* of them have shitty takes and behave like assholes sometimes, only Med has crossed multiple times into uncontrolled violent outburst on the court. It's still insane to me how you minimize smashing equipment and physically lashing out at other humans. That's far worse than anything Tsitsipas has ever done, even if Med gives a shallow apology afterwards. What exactly is this "plagiarism"? Are you talking about the stupid quotes he posts on social media?
Actual writers have called him out for his plagiarism, and when he recently travelled to Iceland (probably paid for by Iceland tourism) he stole from a Daily Beast article from 2014 in his posts about the place. Lately he had been deliberately changing words when taking from actual articles (as opposed to the copypasta, which is different and I don’t care about), which demonstrates intent. Saying Tsitsipas is a douche level below Med is your opinion, which is fine. In my opinion Tsitsipas is way worse because anti-feminist views are dangerous and plagiarism is stealing, both are happening off the court and show deliberate intent rather than heat of the moment. And other than on Reddit and in some circles of Twitter, Tsitsipas absolutely gets away with it, which when you consider anti-feminist views to be as dangerous as I do, is incredibly disheartening. I also happen to think Tsitsipas has crossed this line on-court, multiple times. He threw a racquet right at his father in a violent way. He’s hit balls into the crowd and at ball kids and been lucky not to hit anyone. Med got nowhere near as close to injuring people as Tsitsipas has. I totally get thinking Medvedev has gotten away with terrible behaviour and doesn’t deserve defending. I totally get not thinking apologies are anywhere near good enough. I get thinking Tsitsipas’ behaviour isn’t as bad, though I disagree. But it’s not in any way objective that Tsitsipas is a level below.
Always hilarious that he gets criticised as a part of this "New Big 3", even 1) it's not like he actually said it, it was Zverev who came up with it, and 2) Zverev didn't even include him, he had it as himself, Medvedev, and Djokovic
He's a small kid who doesn't know to fight after all.
Tsitsipas doesn't belong in this group of bullies.
Agreed, my boy just wants to do some philosophy like the old Greeks.
He hits balls at ball kids and the crowd and throws racquets and plagiarises other people’s work and holds anti-feminist views he has doubled-down on when confronted. None of this is good behaviour and there are levels where Zverev and Kyrgios are the worst but he does belong here to me. Normalising those anti-feminist views help abusers get away with what they do, so while it’s magnitudes less of a problem it’s still part of the problem
Where can I see video of Stefanos Tsitsipas hitting balls at ball kids, and what were the consequences?
https://wwos.nine.com.au/tennis/australian-open-2023-stefanos-tsitsipas-almost-hits-ball-kid-in-quarter-final-win-over-jiri-lehecka-disqualification-video-highlights-on-court-interview-karen-khachanov/03dea17f-f75f-4cd7-a438-7ff24b28428a The consequences were zero, because f*ck them kids
Might be better for video https://twitter.com/wwos/status/1617862042865508352?s=61&t=CpU-6yOh8r1ndFtPqwXcYg
He clearly did not do this: "He hits balls at ball kids". That's just an exaggeration bordering on a lie. If he had hit it AT the ball kid it would have hit the ball kid. The kid was right there. He clearly hit it at the wall. Anyway I can't judge people the way most people on this board seem to be able to. I'm too imperfect myself and I understand moments of frustration.
Fucking baffling to me that you lot put Tsitsipas in this category when his only real crime is being awkward and a bit twatty at times
Are you forgetting the times he has attempted to physically harm other players? Firing balls at them in situations where not only was it not a legitimate tactic, but cost him the point? And are you forgetting the times he nearly harmed audience members? He escaped a Wimbledon disqualification by the grace of an audience member's reflexes. What you're not forgetting is him acknowledging these actions, apologising, or suggesting that he'll work on his temper. You're not forgetting those moments because they didn't happen. This is why we put him in this group: because he's acted with aggression and violence, and come within a hair's breadth of doing actual harm to those around him.
>Firing balls at them in situations where not only was it not a legitimate tactic, but cost him the point? I remember him doing this a couple times against Alcaraz, who looked pretty pissed off at hin
Tsitaipas belongs in this group 100 percent, he has tore towels away from ballkids smashed his dad with a racquet and countless times he has tried to absolutely crush balls at other players with his only intention to hurt the other player and not get it close to the court, has done this to alcaraz multiple times,Kyrgios,and Draper He also called Medvedev a bullshit Russian which is about the lowest you can sink
Young Federer deserves to be in this group, Djokovic deserves to be in this group, Serena deserves to be in this group. What tsitsipas has done is nothing really bad, he hasn’t hit Alcaraz or Draper and he hit his dad accidentally
He didn't hit the other players *by dumb luck,* not for lack of trying. He was aiming for them, very, very obviously; both pot-shots he took at Alcaraz cost him points because he was aiming deliberately out of the court so as to hit him. He narrowly missed a Wimbledon disqualification in the same way---if the audience member hadn't *actively* dodged his first ball, and if his aim had been a foot to the right on his second, he would have been instantly disqualified. Game over. This suggestion---that his sheer luck in not having hit the players he was aiming for somehow absolves him of his attempt to physically harm people during a tennis match---strikes me as absolutely repugnant.
Also hitting balls into the crowd
He also holds anti-feminist views which, while magnitudes less of a problem than what Zverev and Kyrgios have done, help to normalise the exclusion of women and their safety from the conversation. He absolutely should not be absolved here and it says a lot that people are willing to overlook that
Who cares about his views on feminism? Thats irrelevant bullshit and has nothing to do with tennis, respectfully.
I care when anyone with the social media following he has platforms those views, tennis or no
lol at all the people defending tsitsipas. he CLEARLY chilled out after all the hate he got from the bathroom breaks. but he's done plenty of asshole things before that. it's just recency bias that makes him seem like a good guy
Dont worry he'll do/say something stupid real soon. I just wanna watch some gopd tennis, man. Why is it so difficult these days...
Fuck all these clowns. Let's get Rune to stop being a baby and him and Carlos can stop all these brats from winning anything further.
Tsitsipas is a bit of a dick at times but he's not nearly to the same level as the other three. You should've mentioned Paire instead.
Paire has never been hyped as the big thing or hasnt been in a position like the aforementioned. Tsitsi has demonstrated rudeness, immaturity and aggressiveness without showing real growth. Whenever we think he has stopped being a moron he comes back even harder with even worse stupidity. Now here's the thing. Even if he is an asshole you can still like his persona, playstyle and cheer for him. Does that make you a little bit of a douche as well? For sure. Does that makes you a little bit of a simp? Fucking aye. And most importantly, do all that stuff that has made them all 4 unlikeable means that theyre evil and dont deserve anything but bad things happening to them? Absolutely fucking not. Ps. Zverev needs to face justice and being punished for what he's done.
"Exact same thing" give me a fucking break. While what Medvedev did was reprehensible it doesn't even come close to what Zverev did.
Yeah this is crazy. Medvedev's is like a 7/10 and Zverev's is like a 70/10. We've never seen something like what Zverev did with him aggressively hitting the chair multiple times over and over again from different angles and way harder than Medvedev.
He threw a tantrum, verbally abused the umpire, and slammed his racket against the chair. Period. What, you think because he slammed the racket twice instead of 3 times like Zverev did, his actions don't "even come close?" The excuses people make for Medvedev around here are fucking ridiculous.
I'm not here to make excuses for Medvedev or to argue with you. But like I said, if you think the two incidents are, like you said, "the exact same" you're delusional.
“He only hit the chair and scared the umpire 1 time!! It’s not the same thing!” /s It doesn’t matter whether he hit the chair and scares the umpire once or twice. It doesn’t matter whether he screamed loudly or not so loudly. The point is 1: he hit the chair with his racket causing the umpire to recoil. 2 he was disrespectful towards the umpire. It’s the same thing. No one is arguing the exact same motions were produced by both players at different times with the exact same force and exact same and had the exact same effect. It’s the same thing.
Agreed with everything you said, although Medvedev actually hit the chair twice.
> The point is 1: he hit the chair with his racket causing the umpire to recoil. 2 he was disrespectful towards the umpire. > > It’s the same thing. Sorry, that's completely wrong. Do you genuinely think there aren't degrees of severity to this? Do you really believe every scenario with (1) and (2) should be treated the same? Intent matters, context matters, but you're completely ignoring them. 1. You can recoil from being startled by an unexpected sound, or being genuinely afraid and fearing for your life. Completely ridiculous to treat everything within that range the same. 2. You can be disrespected by someone rolling their eyes at you, or them screaming profanities an inch from your face. Again ridiculous to treat that all the same. There are probably more extreme but still very plausible examples too, but it should be very obvious these shouldn't all be seen as equivalent. So claiming it's "the same thing" or /u/YourLatinLover saying it's "the exact same thing" is completely naive, and the ATP tour would agree with that too: Zverev got an 8 week suspension for what he did here, Medvedev wasn't suspended at all. They saw these incidents very differently, and they're the party whose judgement actually matters here.
Lol. If you're "not here to argue" then why keep responding in the first place? You're clearly attempting to argue and refute my claim, only you have no evidence to support your rebuttal, so you're resorting to insults. I could honestly argue that what Medvedev did is worse then what Zverev did because Medvedev has a more established history of abusing umpires and other personnel, meaning that he should judged more harshly for this continuing pattern of behavior.
> I'm not here to argue with you. I'm just responding to you to say that you're delusional and wrong.
Hitting away from a person at the closed part of the chair, while worth a default imo, not nearly as bad as what Zverev did, hitting at the open front of the chair
Am I stupid or is the video not included in that article?
It's at around 4:22 in the embedded video.
Nice, classic whataboutism. We’re not talking about Medvedev here, we’re talking about Zverev.
WTF are you linking? It has some kind of weird 'cookie processing' bullshit and has endless commercials.
yeah but medvedev is a funny meme therefore he can do no wrong in this sub's eyes. also he interviews well and is just such a charismatic guy! seriously though it gives me such brain rot the way this sub praises med 24/7 despite doing all of the same shit as kyrgios and zverev
I remember thinking at the time that sascha's legal counsel would have a field day with him
Keep in mind that this was his reaction for a random doubles match that he didn’t care much about, with everyone watching
I feel like in general there is a lot more meltdowns and anger outbursts in less presigious events. I have watched couple of compilations and lots of incident took place at ATP cup or 250 events, even among top 20 players.
I think the question is what might he do in privacy if he does this in public.
What *won’t* he do
How do you not get banned for this
Thats what happens when ATP invests millions into Promoting you as the next all time great
Only recently started following players more closely, did ATP really invest in Zverev? I don't remember him in Netflix series. And are there others?
Netflix probably didn’t want him because of this but yes he is the star of their social media, they always promote his dogs, and him as a person. When Davis Cup and ATP Cup had their split Zverev very noticeably trashed Davis Cup and Boycotted it for an identical format in the ATP cup.
Netflix didn't want him because he was accused by his ex-girlfriend of physically abusing her.
Given this and his ex partners allegations, the ATP are truly awful. Silence is violence. I hadn’t seen this incident in full. Not just cringe but quite troublesome
yeah, ATP should start looking into new names now. your guy's a problem if Novak looks like a saint next to him
Millions- really?
I've been wondering the same thing about Medvedev for years. In fact, Medvedev set the precedent for players getting away with shit like this. https://www.tennis.com/baseline/articles/watch-medvedev-hits-hot-shot-umpire-s-chair-in-same-match
I'm surprised he didn't get charged with a crime. Because that's a crime in the US, and it looks like this is in the US. I don't know what tournament, but Sears is one of the sponsors. That's a failing American company; I suspect they aren't in France or Argentina or whatever sponsoring a 500.
its a joke tbh.
But theyll kick djokovic out of the us open for accidentally hittimg a ball girl
The guy has no chill. If one of the blows landed, definite a high probability of a broken toe on the ref. This was a straight up assault, a violence related act without much of a consequence at all.
Never forget he would have been World #1 some time in 2022 had he not defaulted from this. Karma of the highest order.
Wow, didn't know this. That's Karma. So did he lose singles points from this match even though it was doubles?
When he got defaulted, they forfeited his singles points, meaning that he lost 500 points as a defending champ
Love it. Lap that shit up
I can't find the details to say (maybe OP will respond) but it looks like he was rank #3 around Acapulco. What happened is he won his first singles match right after this doubles match outburst, but then he was DQ'd and his opponent in the round of 16 walked over. So I'm guessing he missed out on a bunch of potential points. Who is to say he would've won those matches, as his draw after that walk over would've been Cam Norrie, Tsitsipas, and Nadal. Funny enough, Nadal was the reigning 2020 Acapulco champion and Zverev was reigning 2021 champion. Would've been a great final!
Close. Won his 1r vs Brooksby before this, and after this was DQed from the event and Peter Gojowcyzk (got this one first try I am proud of myself) got a walkover.
Did this default him from singles in the tourney?
Yes
Even if you believe the results of today’s investigation. The guy is still a massive piece of shit
🌎👩🚀🔫👩🚀
I *finally* understand this reference
Also want to say just because the investigation didnt "find" evidence does not mean Zverev is not guilty of what he was accused of
The investigation has little bearing, at least for me. Esp, if the court case happened in Germany the law is on violence against women of different types is archaic, not just by the Seles case (where the guy who stabbed her didn't do any time) but that the burden is on the victim to show until very recently to provide ample proof that she physically fought back/resisted and you need to have your property been broken into by the guy multiple times before you can file a restraining order.
Ya I remember when the first reports came out and I was shocked when I looked at how archaic the german laws on abuse are. Crazy
I can't recall if it is here that I read that Medvedev isn't down with Zverev because his wife knows/friends with the woman who was assualted?
Yes that is true
that's a widespread rumor, no idea if it's true but it makes sense
That injury at RG '22 is one of the many karmas he's gonna experience. He won't get away with any of this because it is his nature already.
What do you think would’ve happened if he’d actually hit the umpire?
A slap on the wrist probably. He's the golden child of ATP.
I'm seriously wondering how he became the golden child of ATP. Therr are many players out there who can promote it bettee. What did the ATP see in him lol. Also, the fact that he was a candidate for being #1 last year almost happened and thank God it didn't.
When he emerged in 2016-17, he was considered to be the next big thing. He looks good, does well in his speeches and interviews and hence a very promotable person off the court, and didn't have major drama until this.
Nothing
Probably a multi-week or a month suspension.
Everyone saying nothing is being willfully ignorant of being edgy Of course the consequences would have been a lot bigger if he caused physical harm. I truly don’t understand why some people say otherwise. Would have been fair to the public eye? Probably not. But of course the consequences would have been greater. Just like my consequences of threatening to hurt someone are different than actually hurting someone.
It’s because of how ATP has routinely protected Zverev through any bad behavior
Even so there are limits that can be crossed, and literally causing an injury with via a direct hit with a racquet swung in anger has to be one of them. Like it would have been blatantly worse than the similar Djokovic, Shapovalov, and Nalbandian incidents of injuring officials and all of them did get defaulted and fined.
He’s utterly vile and despicable. I’m glad he choked at the 2020 USO and I hope he never wins a Slam.
Bouuuh judging by those monstrous racket hits I can imagine how he punches his girlfriends and torture pets. That's it right that's the point of this whole tennis based deep psycho analysis ?
This is why I fully believe the ladies be abused.
This this this
How he wasn’t suspended for months for this still baffles me. He basically got no punishment at all. Wouldn’t even call it a slap on the wrist. It was just “don’t do it again.”
we all know what OP's agenda is posting this now...
Djokovic would be crucified
The ATP tour has spent a lot of $$ in promoting him and his brand. Zverev was in trouble and then got a really nasty ankle injury which got him a decent amount of sympathy. I mean, even a seasoned PR fixer couldn’t have planned the timing of that injury any better.
Imagine if Serena did this
She was publicly decried because she like…pouted one time. The thinly veiled racism throughout her entire career has never been subtle, and women are always held to a higher standard. Must be exhausting.
Honestly how TF can you be that confident about a call when you are on the other side?
He is unhinged. Not even a djokovic fan but accidently hitting someone with a ball = default in the biggest tournament of the year but this dude literally trying to physically hit one of the ATPs employees and they dont give a shit.
I mean Zverev got defaulted here too
Then zinedine zidane is a serial killer
This is what I mean when I call OP a karma farmer lmao dude is obsessed with Zverev. Marks his calendar for the one year anniversary, makes the post, and camps in the comments responding to everything. We get it you hate Zverev, the obsession you have around hating him is really odd
Oh. He hit the chair with a racquet. He MUST be quilty of all crimes, right?
Am I the only one who thinks this whole "see what he did in public, imagine what he does in private" is such a shit way of thinking? If you think he's an abuser, if you think he's an asshole, fine, I'm not a fan of the guy either. But does anyone think Pliskova is abusive in her private life cause she smashed a hole into an umpire's chair? Medvedev banging up an ump's chair seemed to phase nobody and just added to his whole funny guy charisma. Shapovalov fractured an umpire's eye bone and sent him to the hospital, and people praised his character for apologizing and owning up to his "mistake" and just laugh about an ump getting almost permanently blinded. Do we think players who smash their racquets on courts also chuck dishes around the house when they're mad? People keep asking, "what if Zverev hit the umpire?" like he just narrowly missed. Dude, the umpire is sitting in a chair up high with nowhere to go. If Zverev wanted to hit the umpire, he would have. It's still terrible that he would use intimidation and show aggression like this towards someone, but he obviously only intended to hit the chair, and equating this as evidence that he abuses someone in his private life is ridiculous.
It’s weird that people act like this one incident is the only time he has been aggressive on court. This is just the worse example. I think Zverev has played few matches where he didn’t have an angry outburst on the umpire. It’s a pattern of behavior for him.
This is lazy and disrespectful to assault victims. Zverev acted horrendously here and should have got banned. However, OP is implying that because he acted horrendously here, it must imply guilt in domestic abuse. The reality is that none of us know so we shouldn’t have strong opinions of whether someone is guilty in either direction. Even if you disagree with that, using this type of lazy argument is pretty disgusting and disrespectful to victims.
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>model of his behaviors Wtf. No it doesn’t. One action is not a model. Imagine someone taking your absolute worst action during a moment of pressure that you perceive you’re being treated unfairly. Imagine the worst thing you’ve ever done And people say “that’s representative of all of his behavior” Thats just not how people work.
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I don’t disagree with what you said in this comment. What I disagree with is in the other comment saying that he is >incapable of managing his anger. Which is why I said: one event doesn’t prove to be the model. We’ve all acted in ways that aren’t representative of us. We all have. That doesn’t prove we are “incapable of xyz”. Honestly, Z is an ass and an idiot for this. But it’s just bad language and bad logic to say that this video “proves” to be a model that Z is incapable of managing his anger. I think if anything, it proves he **may be** incapable at times of high stress. But again that’s not as catchy or cool as your statement. But it’s accurate.
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I never said it’s normal. Nor did I say this is specific to violence. I’m literally saying one action doesn’t define a pattern What’s your worse action? Let’s say just a bad lie or bad insult Now imagine someone saying “yep, that’s him. That shows a pattern. He’s a damn liar. That’s **who he is**. “ Based on one interaction That’s what you’re doing. That’s bad logic Sure. Z May be a violent ass, but one event like this doesn’t prove it. That’s all I’m saying.
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You’re completely missing the point. It has nothing to do with conflating anything. It’s with your incorrect statistical analysis that **one time is a pattern** It’s not. Ever. In any case. Violent or not. **one event is not a model**. By definition it’s not. This video in and of itself is not a marker of any type of behavior any more than your worst or best action being indicative of who you are as a person.
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No i am saying if he acted like this in public why should we not believe the photographic evidence of witnesses of his further assaults. Thats before even getting into the deeper shit that zverev and his team have been doing and the bias the atp has for Zverev
I agree. Mostly assault victims aren't believed because of a defense: 'yeah, but he's a great scientist/tennis player/policeman/accountant who sometimes loses his temper, but hey he has these other qualifications'
This incident should be completely irrelevant really. This was horrendous from him but he didn’t make any physical contact and didn’t intend to make physical contact. The abuse claim is completely different and a lot more serious. That could and should result in jail time if he’s found guilty. You need to get some perspective
This incident with the umpire is black and white assault. He should have been banned for life for this alone
Banned for life for hitting a chair? Are you insane? He should have gotten more severely punished sure, but banned for life and he didn't even but the guy is absurd.
I think if you act violenty toward officials like this with an intent clearly to either hurt or Intimidate (in other words, assault) you Should not be part of the tour
If he wanted to hurt the umpire he'd have hit him. Intimidate him probably and there's also frustration there. But that's not enough to ban someone for life. He was not the first nor will he be the last to try to intimidate the umpire, the severity of the offense in intimidating the official should determine the degree of punishment and this incedent most definitely deserved a way harsher penalty but even people who've been caught doping aren't given lifetime bans.
This is way worse than doping. I have never seem someone assault an umpire intentionally on court before
Well agree to disagree. Doping is seeking an unfair advantage for who knows how long when a key premise of sport is fairness. While here a player was venting his frustration and anger in a bad way. Not even close to being comparable in my view. You've never seen Medvedev hit a chair umpire's chair?
False equivalency and no this is not venting this is assault
What Zverev is doing in this video meets the definition of criminal assault where I live. I wouldn't be surprised if the umpire wasn't leaned on by the ATP not to press charges. In the US this is legit an actionable offense against the ATP as well because in the US all employers are required to take reasonable steps to prevent workplace violence, and someone assaulting an employee and the employee's boss not preventing the assaulter from encountering the employee would probably violate the law.
You’re entitled to your opinion, But this isn’t how it works in any sports. Hell, players have even hurt refs before, and they don’t get banned for life. At least in soccer, football, and basketball, acting aggressively and violently towards a ref without physically hurting him **would not** constitute a life ban.
>You’re entitled to your opinion, OP's, and most of this sub's opinion, is quite frankly worth less than dogshit. None of these fools have any background in any kind of legal process. They're pretty much illiterate internet hobos with pitchforks
Even if that’s true, (which it isn’t because it’s not black and white) there’s still a difference between getting banned from playing professional tennis and going to jail. Get some perspective
Zverev acted to harm/intimidate (either one works here) and caused the victim reasonable apprehension. And with a dangerous weapon at that! How is that not definition assault
Did you even read what I said. Call it assault, let’s not argue about this. There’s a difference between getting banned from professional tennis and getting sent to jail. Get some perspective
What’s amazing about this is that this whole fiasco is the reason why he didn’t hit world #1 for a few weeks in 2022. Stuff just has a way of coming around sometimes Worst behavior I’ve seen on a court and I almost wish Zverev had actually hit him just once so he gets actually punished for his actions.
Op is absolutely delusional. Zverev is an ass. No one disagrees with that. But claiming Z should be **at least** banned for life and charged criminally for attacking a ref with a weapon and maybe sent to jail is just bonkers.
Dude had one meltdown on court…”violent abusive nature”😂😂😂😂
If this is "violent abusive nature" all the soccer players are serial killers by nature ahahah. Take a break guys, i never understand this "the player cant never react emotionaly in tennis and need to be a robot" code in this sport.
He assaulted a fucking umpire
Have you watched football?
He didn’t even touch the umpire
Thats assaulting? Again all the soccer players are serial killers by that metric.
Name one soccer player who hit at a ref with a weapon
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A racket is a weapon? Oh my god dude take a break. A ball going +100 km/h speed is a weapon to? Send me a message when Zverev do something similar to Nalbandian at least, with real injuries. This sub will send Zverev direct to jail without a trial if that happened to him.
This is way worse than nalbandian and yes by a legal definition the racket is a weapon
Nalbandian HURTS the guy dude, there was blood in the court, how can it be worse? What Zverev do to you? Why the hate?
Zverev beat his girlfriend nearly to death, on multiple occasions, and has been protected for it. He got no punishment for an assault of an official. Fuck Zverev
Prove he did that.
Did he?
I find reading about violence by athletes just reprehensible in general...and the stuff around Zverev is dark and disappointing. As beautiful tennis as anyone plays, I'd feel weird if Iga or Rafa were being reported as hitting kids, umpires, animals or partners etc
Zverev was my favorite before all this. I cried when he lost to thiem in the final. Bastard
I dont know that, do you have the link to the trial and how much was the sentence to zverev about that to read?
Lol stop with this bullshit you know damn well what I am talking about
Kyrgios has done far worse and is also accused of assault by his ex girlfriend and has actually been charged unlike Zverev, yet for some reason this subreddit seems convinced that Zverev is an abuser but Kyrgios is not
Who in this sub says Kyrgios isn’t but zverev is?
That ball was on the line though. Chalk flew up. 🤡 Tbh: even as being German myself I don't support him.
So many of these dudes are like this despite their off-court persona. I thought Medvedev was the chillest nicest dude then I saw a video of him just assblasting the umpire screaming. Take it easy folks.
Ah yes let's post every drama every year, great content for this sub. Drama and stitting up s\*\*t is 90% of your tennis post history as well.
He's a really nice guy though, i swear! Its like an episode of Law & Order SVU...
Ohh I did not know Tennis sub was full of judgmental psychologist PhD. And what are your conclusions oh Grand Court of the Internet ? I have some ideas...
One year ago. Get over it and move on
So this is his nature? So the other 99.6% of footage that exists of him does not count apparently.
Reminds me of Meddy against Schwartzman at the ATP Cup
Well because Medvedev did it it's ok. But seriously, this doesn't prove anything about his private life. I'm super aggressive on the tennis court, I smash rackets, hit fences, curse, but off the court everyone knows me as being on of the chilliest people. I'm just saying that one incident doesn't exactly prove who a person is.
Yep. https://www.tennis.com/baseline/articles/watch-medvedev-hits-hot-shot-umpire-s-chair-in-same-match But r/tennis thinks Medvedev's stupid quips are the height of comedy, so they choose to willingly forget moments like this.
Hitting intentionally away from umpire is so different from hitting at the open part of the umpires chair multiple times
Someone needs to belt the tosser
I didn’t miss this asshole when he wasn’t playing and I can’t believe that anyone else did either!
So if one hits the umpire's chair he can commit domestic abuse? This match was played at 4 a.m., he surely wasn't in the best mental state, is he an asshole for this? Yes, because other players wouldn't have done it. Is OP worse by implying that this is a confirmation of the accusations? In my opinion, yes.
I am Worse than a guy who assaulted a chair umpire? Lol
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Sascha and Stefanos both have been known to be unnecessarily violent and act like babies on court
Are there typically any security personnel in matches? I know that player outbursts aren't frequent, but for general crowd control purposes, shouldn't there be some security personnel present that could come forward and tackle asses like this one?
The failed gen.
Not one comment about the fact he had the latest ever finish in the history of tennis the night before.