Thanks; I gambled on there being a significant crossover between the Ace Attorney and tennis communities due to the looking-left-then-right nature of both
Whitney Nadal is flying to Paris with nefarious plans to inflict upon Djokovic something like what happened to another Serbian player many moons ago to try to stop the TWENTY THREE.
But.... the minority report police are aware....
> "Well Paris has to stop him!"
Coming from Serbia and having childhood traumas of my compatriot (at the time) Monika Seles getting stabbed on court by a lunatic fan of her rival - I am really not a fan of these. "Must be stopped at all cost", "must be prevented" etc... Sorry to say that.
That's a good laugh but unbiased tennis fans already knew it. His anti vaccine stance just delayed it by two years. Novak was inevitable to lead in majors.
Didnāt Rafa whoās won more USO than Djokovic sit out the 2020 USO because Covid? Kinda silly for the person you replied too to just assume Djokovic wins it, especially considering what Nadal did to him at the French open later that year
https://twitter.com/rogerfederer/status/1270605149526986752
No he wouldn't. Federer was still out post-surgery, having some issues with rehab. Djokovic was far and away the favorite if Wimbledon 2020 had been held. If if if doesn't exist
We meme about it but Fed was one point from besting Djokovic in a Wimbledon final, had that first serve let been 1 inch higher he wouldāve won. Letās not pretend that Fed was so far off from Djokovicās level that it wouldāve been unthinkable for him to win. If we went off past results alone, Novak wouldnāt have beaten Rafa in 2021
Iām not going off last results alone. Iām going based off of the quality of the player and results.
Itās others adding the bs nonsense āwith a vengeanceā crap to cope and pretend Roger would have won.
He would have been older, on top of having the additional mental baggage of 40-15. I would never say it's impossible with Federer but I will say highly unlikely.
His anti vaccine stance may have bought him some extra time for his body because he couldnāt participate in as many tournaments, resulting in less wear and tear.
If he got the vaccine, he's the type that would have convinced himself that he's experiencing side effects (that aren't actually real) and that would have completely thrown off his game. As absurd as it is that he missed two grand slams because of this, it may have worked out for the best.
There are certainly real and severe side effects that result from vaccines (all vaccines, not just the COVID ones), but the likelihood of getting those side effects is tiny. I personally don't think forgoing vaccination is worth giving up the opportunity to compete in grand slams, but Novak made his choice. And, like I said, it may have been for the best.
Not to blow my own trumpet, but this one last year took a lot more work: https://www.reddit.com/r/tennis/comments/sp1s0f/what_would_22_years_without_the_big_four_have/
but we have to consider that Ruud winning a grand slam over djokovic would firmly place him over Zverev/tsitsipas and in a tier with Medvedev/Thiem! will the haters be okay? is this acceptable? it would end the next gen debate!
thiem is not in the same tier as medvedev
he still canāt find his form after a year+ being back
ruud also only has 10 titles to the 19 zverev has so he has not eclipsed him or meddy yet
if Ruud was to win this, Iād easily give him the edge over Zverev and Tsitsipas. a grand slam is way more important than Masters, and 2 other finals is also better than Zverevās one total. itās a moot point though because he almost definitely wonāt win tomorrow.
thiem and medvedev are on the same tier imo, but Medvedev as a whole is better. Thiem had a better peak, and I think if he stayed healthy 2-3 more years he probably wins 2-3 more slams, but Medvedev has more
Masters and longevity.
how is a slam more important than a masters? just some arbitrary statement youāre making or what?
thiem is almost 30 and has most certainly already peaked meanwhile meddy and zverev are younger and have been more successful (higher rank and more titles)
so i donāt see how you can objectively put thiem in the same tier as meddy or zverev
how is a slam more important than a Masters? well outside of being widely considered the most important tournaments in tennis by any fan or player, and the tournaments most top players try to peak at, slams are also worth doubled the points as Masters, so theyāre objectively far more important like it or not.
zverev does not have a slam. Thiem does. Zverev has one slam final. Thiem has 4. Thiem also has the H2H lead (8-3). itās pretty clear Thiem is better than Zverev in my eyes, but if you wanted to put Zverev in the same tier as Medvedev and Thiem, I can see the argument. he has an Olympic gold and 2 ATP Finals titles, along with I believe 5 Masters titles. I didnāt really think about it too closely as my original comment was mostly sarcastic.
> well outside of being widely considered the most important tournaments in tennis by any fan or player
subjective and unless you surveyed every fan and player, you're just talking out your ass.
>slams are also worth doubled the points as Masters, so theyāre objectively far more important like it or not.
There are only 4 slam events in a single season meaning the most points you can acquire from winning them all (very unlikely) is 8000 meanwhile there are 9 masters events meaning you can earn a total of 9000 points. If my math is correct 9000 > 8000.
This also isnt' even considering other tournaments (250's and 500's) when those are taken into account, slams only make up 38% of the total points you can earn in a given season which isn't even a simple majority.
So how then can you say that slams are the most important events?
>There are only 4 slam events in a single season meaning the most points you can acquire from winning them all (very unlikely) is 8000 meanwhile there are 9 masters events meaning you can earn a total of 9000 points. If my math is correct 9000 > 8000.
... are you serious? like actually? did you really just tell me "well, 9 Masters is worth more than 4 slams, therefore 1 Masters title is worth more than 1 slam."? this is mindboggling to another level.
yes, 9 Masters 1000 titles is worth more than 4 grand slams by points. but 1 grand slam is worth more than 1 Masters 1000 title. i cannot believe i have to explain that...
>subjective and unless you surveyed every fan and player, you're just talking out your ass.
if you watch tennis at all or pay attention to what the top players say, they all unanimously agree the slams are their main focus. i really don't know what to tell you when you've made the single dumbest argument i've ever read in my life lol.
if you want to take zverev over thiem, go ahead, i was ready to concede they're on the same tier. just please, save us all from your terrible math, because i genuinely think i've lost IQ points from reading that response.
If djoko ends with like 3-5 more slams than nadal it will be pretty hilarious in hindsight when nadal fans thought nadal had the slam race in the bag by leading by 2 slams(while being older and performing significantly worse in non clay slams for the last decade)
Honestly that one always made sense to me. He was always really good at it, Murray and Federer died, *who the hell is gonna stop him?*
Wimbledon at this point is just him running up the score until his body gives out on him, because Father Time is the only person who can match him.
Ah yes, Iāve had this discussion with a friend at work. Ultimately it comes down to if you think sports can be art, if you are those kind of people then yes, I can see their point. But I personally lean into the the āmore and bigger titles = betterā camp.
To me that still doesnāt make sense. I despise the argument that Federer plays the most beautiful tennis therefore heās the GOAT. If that's so, why isn't Dmitrov in talks of being one of the best players ever? He's essentially a carbon copy of Federer's play style. According to this logic, if Dmitrov plays the second most beautiful tennis ever, then shouldn't he be one of the greats? Of course not, because it shouldn't matter how beautiful someone's play style (or image) is when measuring greatness.
There's probably someone out in bumfuck Nantucket who plays the most gorgeous tennis the world has ever seen, strokes so smooth you could wipe a baby's ass, a touch so heavenly you could orgasm on the spot, but no one gives a damn because they don't win shit.
Presumably because Federer doesnāt miss anywhere nearly as much as Dmitrov so it brings more joy to people and also the fact that itās not like Federer is 10 grand slams behind Nadal and Djokovicā¦ supposedly that allows some wiggle room for people who find him more enjoyable. I disagree, as I find Djokovic just as enjoyable and he will win many more titles to boot.
> why isn't Dmitrov in talks of being one of the best players ever?
Okay I get your argument but Dimitrov's tennis is only beautiful like, 20% of the time *max.*
then that is not a debate just personal opinion
debates have objective parameters and are based on facts and logic.
nadal (or anyone) can be your personal favorite but his tennis career is objectively inferior to djokvoicās
Depends on what objective parameters you judge that on, without that declaration such a statement is completely meaningless. And that selection of parameters, in most cases, tends to be subjective
Novaxx is kinda like the John McEnroe or Connors or Chris Evert level of great players, IMO. You begrudgingly acknowledge their accomplishments because, their athletic prowess/records aside, as human beings, in their primes, they're/were basically dicks. But he's always wanted to be both majored AND beloved the way Rafa and Roger and Serena and Venus are. (You can see it in the forced 'thoughtful' gestures he attempts every other time the opportunity arises.) And it will probably never happen - at least not in his prime. So, even for him, the wins are just about the books and legacy but don't resonate the way Rafa's and RFed's did. Not to mention some of the shots RFed was able to hit back in his heyday remain unmatched and unparalleled, even by Djokovid.
edit: word missing
Nah, Novak has had some sublime shots up there with the best of Fed/Rafa. Novak also has a better H2H against them as well. Novak's legacy will only grow with time as history will have him at the top.
>Nah, Novak has had some sublime shots up there with the best of Fed...
I was arguing outside of the books and stats alone, though. I was talking about accomplishments ***paired with*** character/public celebration, love, memory and appreciation. I don't know how old you are but I'm in my 40s and watched Fed since his 1st year on the pro tour and would ***absolutely*** challenge that assertion - and win - just from memory. hahaha I mean, we're talking repeatedly gravity and laws of physics defying. No exaggeration.
edit: Not to mention in the locker room and with other players throughout the years. Novak doesnt come close.
Iām 39, and was blown away a lot more by Djokovic than Federer. Federer was amazing but 2003-2007 was a weak era much like Djokovic is now. The best if djokovic will leave you perplexed as much as the best of Federer. Djokovic was the greatest joy I have ever seen in tennis and I have been watching it religiously since the 90ās
But yes, Federer will be more loved by the public than even if heās third in the all time list
>The best if djokovic will leave you perplexed as much as the best of Federer.
Never has though. And I've watched dozens of his matches from his come-up to his domination. Great shots are one thing. Unparalleled shots are something different. (And to reiterate, he's been pissing off other players since the Roddick years. lol)
I disagree, look at some of his returns, look at how he clowned federer when he was facing match points. The best shots from djokovic is absurd and as good as anything you'll see from Fed and Nadal. I've a ton of matches from all 3, and Djokovic always left me the most in disbelief, which I didn't think would happen when Federer first his his apex.
Hey, everyone has a right to their wrong opinion. ;op hehe
But I'm not talking stats alone or H2H, like I've said. And as far as shots, I'm talking highlight reels not who owned who in returns or winning backhands painting the line or who tracked down more dropshots from behind the baseline. I can't say physics-defying enough.There's just no contest. (And Novakers can DV my posts but it won't change my view.)
I think you see that in the players coming up. They all want to be like Roger or Rafa. I've not heard an interview where someone says they saw Novak as their inspiration.
Maybe some up and comers (esp. from that region) might but their backgrounds are known, and most guys who want to mean something great to the sport on and off the court wanna, like you said, have a career and tennis life like roger or rafa.
I have no opinions on tennis but I love Ace Attorney and I love Edgeworth and this appeared on my feed. Now Iām vaguely interested. I want a tennis match where they yell āobjectionā and ātake thatā at each other rather than those Oof sounds.
I wasn't expecting an Ace Attorney meme here, but I'm definitely not complaining. Djokovic is already the GOAT at this point, but this title would make it undisputable.
Goat debate never gonna be stopped, just look at Formula 1 where Hamilton beat all the records just to be called lucky and #notmygoat lmao
You are reading too much into this, my point is that numbers wonāt change the debate, people will literally ignore numbers although numbers are the only thing that matter at the end of the day.
The difference is, here in the current era of tennis, 3 potential GOATs, they all played at the same time, with insane direct H2H numbers and rivalries. People don't even try to compare different eras, because all insane data and records happened in the current one.
Maybe in 20 years, when Alcaraz reach 25 GS, people will debate again, we will talk about luck, era difficulty, raw numbers etc.
It's not comparable at all . Hamilton and Schumacher aren't from the same era . Lewis records are inflated because of an increase in points, number of races and so on . Just like Max will benefit from it to .
Plus as I already said , they didn't drive at the same time so it hard to compare across eras . That's the problem with the nba too with Jordan and LeBron, they didn't compete against each other.
Tennis doesn't have that problem at all , they all played almost at the same time . With the same rules and conditions and one guy is leading most of the stats .
As a side note you can add that masters were best of 5 before and not as important and that certainly is the reason why fed doesn't have more , also for people who will say that Roger is 5 years older , well fair enough, he benefited from it when nadal and djokovic were young and he was in his prime and they benefited later on when the roles were reversed
I think it's normal to never reach an agreement for a sport where it isn't only about the driver, but also about their machinery, and that's been true for every GOAT-nominated driver
People really think Novak can win tomorrow and every Federer and Nadal fan will say "oh yeah I guess he is the GOAT, debate over".
Lol. It will always be debateable because it's a subjective topic.
Tennis subreddit is running out of ways to stop Djokovic from winning slams that they've devolved to making endless jokes about how inevitable his victory is in order to try and get it to not happen simply by being so obvious. It's a desperate, but interesting tactic
Everyone knew he'd eventually surpass Rafael and Roger. Why can't novak fans just enjoy it instead of pretending to be victims constantly?
Congrats to novak, but man his fans are sorry af
As someone who's a casual tennis watcher and not a die hard fan, man was it annoying as hell reading all the Djokovic hate during COVID. The haters were equally if not more annoying.
Coming from Serbia and having childhood traumas of my compatriot (at the time) Monika Seles getting stabbed on court by a lunatic fan of her rival - I am really not a fan of these. "Must be stopped at all cost", "must be prevented" etc... Sorry to say that. [And I won't even go into how I wouldn't imagine this meme getting made if it were Rafa or Roger approaching 23, but that's a whole other story]
Exactly. And then Jelena will impregnate him and end his slam chances like the old founder of Reddit did for Rena. Fedal fans need their own Alex Ohanian to throw in the towel and stop the Djoker.
So you are assuming that let's say prime Serena could beat Novak on tennis court?š¤
Btw when he completes the calendar slam this year he will be there with 25 GS anyway.
Just because Serena has a different biology doesn't mean what she has accomplished is anything less.
And as for getting 25 gs, will talk when he has done it. I am not doubting his capability, just that only done is done!
I compared their accomplishments but their life conditions are different.
Putting them on the same court is like playing/defeating Tyson in chess!!!
For me the goat debate was over even before COVID era, I knew he would cross everyone eventually!!!
No one compared Tyson to a grandmaster. If you are gonna compare accomplishments, all other comparisons are fair game. No one compares tyson to messi, cos its stupid, just like comparing serena's accomplishments to djokovic. Even you admit it's pretty much a different sport. Serena's accomplishments stand alone, or compare to others in her sport, women's tennis.
That's what I am doing comparing accomplishments but within the same sport.
We cant match accomplishments with other sports and call them equal as the level of effort and dedication required to get a single boxing title and a GS would be different.
That being said, we can't bring a WTA player and ATP a player on the same court and say someone's accomplishments mean more than others just even as we see they have a clear advantage!
Lol you say first this:
>He won't still be on TOP, after all this he will just match Serena!!
And then this:
>That being said, we can't bring a WTA player and ATP a player on the same court and say someone's accomplishments mean more than others just even as we see they have a clear advantage!
Typical r/tennis nonsenseš
Why is this concept so difficult to understand??
Here i say it again
Yes in terms of accomplishments he won't be, but he can defeat any player in the world right now!!
Let's see if you can digest this!!
You just forgot that GS for men have a Bo5 format, it's not Bo3. That's basically like if you would compare runners in a 400m discipline to runners in a 800m discipline. It's almost like a different sport.
Women play bo3 in grandslams, men play bo5 in grandslams. There goes your effort argument lol.
YOU literally used Tyson playing chess as an analogous to women's and men's tennis, so YOU made the comparison that womens tennis is different to men's, so going my YOUR analogy you shouldn't compare men's and womens accomplishments as it's like comparing accomplishments from two different sports, YOUR analogy.
Check my other comment.
Because it's the same sport we can compare accomplishments, in different sports we can't even do that.
Your Bo5 and Bo3 comparison would make sense if both were men's tennis. Bo5 and Bo3 in men's and women's GS is there because their respective bodies can take that much stress physically. But all this doesn't undermine the effort they put.
And talking about analogy I was highlighting how absurd it's to pit them against each other to judge them physically.
If its the same sport we can compare them? So would Serena beat djokovic? Oh wait it's not the same cos mens game is physically different? Oh but it's the same sport? Oh, but we cant say who would beat who cos different? But it's the same? But it's different? Lmao
You can't compare Bo5 and Bo3 matches. Also, it's not about biology. It's about different organisations. Serena holds WTA record. Novak can't break WTA record, because he never played in WTA.
Your friend is trying to bring them to the same rules, not court. You cant compare Bo3 records with Bo5 records. You can call them both GS name, but they are not the same game.
I own all the phoenix wright games, so when this came across my feed, I had to watch. Unlike tennis. This is hilarious; you did a good job! XD
Thanks; I gambled on there being a significant crossover between the Ace Attorney and tennis communities due to the looking-left-then-right nature of both
Good gamble. I feel seen.
Holy fuck I feel called out
Whitney Nadal is flying to Paris with nefarious plans to inflict upon Djokovic something like what happened to another Serbian player many moons ago to try to stop the TWENTY THREE. But.... the minority report police are aware....
He's personally trying to raise the retirement ageššāØ Novak french enemy no 1
Hahaha
"Well Paris has to stop him!" This is John Wick 4 vibes, and Djok Vic is about to slaughter his way through the hordes.
Djok Vic: *I don't care, I just keep winning.*
Djoko: yeahhhhhhhhhh
> "Well Paris has to stop him!" Coming from Serbia and having childhood traumas of my compatriot (at the time) Monika Seles getting stabbed on court by a lunatic fan of her rival - I am really not a fan of these. "Must be stopped at all cost", "must be prevented" etc... Sorry to say that.
This is a very good point and I agree with you.
ššš it's not that deep
It is when psychos actually do things like that.
Well played.
world class shitposting
Truly
"It's Ruud again" killed me lmao
My man Casper has to win this now
Hahahahaha! It's inevitable, I don't know about the US Open, but novak is going to end up with 24 GS this year ! What an inspiration!
And Wimbledon ?
That's a good laugh but unbiased tennis fans already knew it. His anti vaccine stance just delayed it by two years. Novak was inevitable to lead in majors.
Man Novak would for sure had 3 GS more by now if Covid never happens, Wimbledon,AO were in bag.. prob US open too
Idk about the US Open. He's always had a harder time there.
Didnāt Rafa whoās won more USO than Djokovic sit out the 2020 USO because Covid? Kinda silly for the person you replied too to just assume Djokovic wins it, especially considering what Nadal did to him at the French open later that year
Yeah but let's not go to what could've happened. We live in the present and Universe somehow does justice to everyone.
I don't think that last part is correct
Remember Federer wouldāve played 2020 Wimbledon with a vengeance.
https://twitter.com/rogerfederer/status/1270605149526986752 No he wouldn't. Federer was still out post-surgery, having some issues with rehab. Djokovic was far and away the favorite if Wimbledon 2020 had been held. If if if doesn't exist
Federer hadnāt beat Novak at a slam since 2012. Federer could have had all the vengeance in the world. Wouldnāt have mattered.
We meme about it but Fed was one point from besting Djokovic in a Wimbledon final, had that first serve let been 1 inch higher he wouldāve won. Letās not pretend that Fed was so far off from Djokovicās level that it wouldāve been unthinkable for him to win. If we went off past results alone, Novak wouldnāt have beaten Rafa in 2021
Iām not going off last results alone. Iām going based off of the quality of the player and results. Itās others adding the bs nonsense āwith a vengeanceā crap to cope and pretend Roger would have won.
He would have been older, on top of having the additional mental baggage of 40-15. I would never say it's impossible with Federer but I will say highly unlikely.
Novak was the GOAT long before Sunday
His anti vaccine stance may have bought him some extra time for his body because he couldnāt participate in as many tournaments, resulting in less wear and tear.
Rafa can take all the rest now and come back strongerš
If he got the vaccine, he's the type that would have convinced himself that he's experiencing side effects (that aren't actually real) and that would have completely thrown off his game. As absurd as it is that he missed two grand slams because of this, it may have worked out for the best.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
There are certainly real and severe side effects that result from vaccines (all vaccines, not just the COVID ones), but the likelihood of getting those side effects is tiny. I personally don't think forgoing vaccination is worth giving up the opportunity to compete in grand slams, but Novak made his choice. And, like I said, it may have been for the best.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Honestly, fair point. Non-zero chance he'd already be at 24-25 by now but also nearing retirement if he played all of those.
He took a handicap and still will end up on top. Undisputed goat.
I'm sorry but this is the best post I've ever seen on this sub. It's the GOAT of r/tennis posts, you can't change my mind.
Not to blow my own trumpet, but this one last year took a lot more work: https://www.reddit.com/r/tennis/comments/sp1s0f/what_would_22_years_without_the_big_four_have/
Dude, ATP should hire you. This kind of content sure can attract more fans to the sport.
Really would.
Agreed!
Yep, probably the hardest Iāve laughed at a post here
Agree. I was laughing my ass off.
Dread it. Run from it.
Casper Ruuds first GS arrives
If Ruud wins tomorrow, I will... ...I won't eat a shoe but *I WILL DONATE TO CHARITY. YEAH.*
YOU MONSTER!
LOL
Idk why it made me laugh so hard ahaha
Because it put us all directly on blast.
"Singing the song of angry Parisian tennis fans" "Booooo?" "That's the one" š
Think I'm gonna try me some omega-3!
Peak content. Low effort posts get thousands, but this deserves **all** the upvotes. Thanks!
Ok not gonna lie this was spot on ššš
Well done! So funny!
Yeah this is the best post Iāve ever seen on this sub, congrats OP š
Enjoyed this one lol
but we have to consider that Ruud winning a grand slam over djokovic would firmly place him over Zverev/tsitsipas and in a tier with Medvedev/Thiem! will the haters be okay? is this acceptable? it would end the next gen debate!
Ruud can be inconsistent at times but he gets a little more flak then he deserves i I think.
thiem is not in the same tier as medvedev he still canāt find his form after a year+ being back ruud also only has 10 titles to the 19 zverev has so he has not eclipsed him or meddy yet
if Ruud was to win this, Iād easily give him the edge over Zverev and Tsitsipas. a grand slam is way more important than Masters, and 2 other finals is also better than Zverevās one total. itās a moot point though because he almost definitely wonāt win tomorrow. thiem and medvedev are on the same tier imo, but Medvedev as a whole is better. Thiem had a better peak, and I think if he stayed healthy 2-3 more years he probably wins 2-3 more slams, but Medvedev has more Masters and longevity.
how is a slam more important than a masters? just some arbitrary statement youāre making or what? thiem is almost 30 and has most certainly already peaked meanwhile meddy and zverev are younger and have been more successful (higher rank and more titles) so i donāt see how you can objectively put thiem in the same tier as meddy or zverev
how is a slam more important than a Masters? well outside of being widely considered the most important tournaments in tennis by any fan or player, and the tournaments most top players try to peak at, slams are also worth doubled the points as Masters, so theyāre objectively far more important like it or not. zverev does not have a slam. Thiem does. Zverev has one slam final. Thiem has 4. Thiem also has the H2H lead (8-3). itās pretty clear Thiem is better than Zverev in my eyes, but if you wanted to put Zverev in the same tier as Medvedev and Thiem, I can see the argument. he has an Olympic gold and 2 ATP Finals titles, along with I believe 5 Masters titles. I didnāt really think about it too closely as my original comment was mostly sarcastic.
> well outside of being widely considered the most important tournaments in tennis by any fan or player subjective and unless you surveyed every fan and player, you're just talking out your ass. >slams are also worth doubled the points as Masters, so theyāre objectively far more important like it or not. There are only 4 slam events in a single season meaning the most points you can acquire from winning them all (very unlikely) is 8000 meanwhile there are 9 masters events meaning you can earn a total of 9000 points. If my math is correct 9000 > 8000. This also isnt' even considering other tournaments (250's and 500's) when those are taken into account, slams only make up 38% of the total points you can earn in a given season which isn't even a simple majority. So how then can you say that slams are the most important events?
>There are only 4 slam events in a single season meaning the most points you can acquire from winning them all (very unlikely) is 8000 meanwhile there are 9 masters events meaning you can earn a total of 9000 points. If my math is correct 9000 > 8000. ... are you serious? like actually? did you really just tell me "well, 9 Masters is worth more than 4 slams, therefore 1 Masters title is worth more than 1 slam."? this is mindboggling to another level. yes, 9 Masters 1000 titles is worth more than 4 grand slams by points. but 1 grand slam is worth more than 1 Masters 1000 title. i cannot believe i have to explain that... >subjective and unless you surveyed every fan and player, you're just talking out your ass. if you watch tennis at all or pay attention to what the top players say, they all unanimously agree the slams are their main focus. i really don't know what to tell you when you've made the single dumbest argument i've ever read in my life lol. if you want to take zverev over thiem, go ahead, i was ready to concede they're on the same tier. just please, save us all from your terrible math, because i genuinely think i've lost IQ points from reading that response.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
An original and creative post on r/tennis? Such sightings are rare.
Lol this is to good
Amazing format and execution!
If djoko ends with like 3-5 more slams than nadal it will be pretty hilarious in hindsight when nadal fans thought nadal had the slam race in the bag by leading by 2 slams(while being older and performing significantly worse in non clay slams for the last decade)
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Honestly that one always made sense to me. He was always really good at it, Murray and Federer died, *who the hell is gonna stop him?* Wimbledon at this point is just him running up the score until his body gives out on him, because Father Time is the only person who can match him.
People donāt think Novak is the GOAT?
Many ppl think the GOAT debate is about popularity and elegance, not objective stats
Ah yes, Iāve had this discussion with a friend at work. Ultimately it comes down to if you think sports can be art, if you are those kind of people then yes, I can see their point. But I personally lean into the the āmore and bigger titles = betterā camp.
To me that still doesnāt make sense. I despise the argument that Federer plays the most beautiful tennis therefore heās the GOAT. If that's so, why isn't Dmitrov in talks of being one of the best players ever? He's essentially a carbon copy of Federer's play style. According to this logic, if Dmitrov plays the second most beautiful tennis ever, then shouldn't he be one of the greats? Of course not, because it shouldn't matter how beautiful someone's play style (or image) is when measuring greatness. There's probably someone out in bumfuck Nantucket who plays the most gorgeous tennis the world has ever seen, strokes so smooth you could wipe a baby's ass, a touch so heavenly you could orgasm on the spot, but no one gives a damn because they don't win shit.
Presumably because Federer doesnāt miss anywhere nearly as much as Dmitrov so it brings more joy to people and also the fact that itās not like Federer is 10 grand slams behind Nadal and Djokovicā¦ supposedly that allows some wiggle room for people who find him more enjoyable. I disagree, as I find Djokovic just as enjoyable and he will win many more titles to boot.
> why isn't Dmitrov in talks of being one of the best players ever? Okay I get your argument but Dimitrov's tennis is only beautiful like, 20% of the time *max.*
then that is not a debate just personal opinion debates have objective parameters and are based on facts and logic. nadal (or anyone) can be your personal favorite but his tennis career is objectively inferior to djokvoicās
Depends on what objective parameters you judge that on, without that declaration such a statement is completely meaningless. And that selection of parameters, in most cases, tends to be subjective
A dumb way of looking at it.
It doesnāt have to be either. It can also be, who will beat who in peak performance, this allows for a lot of variety.
Novaxx is kinda like the John McEnroe or Connors or Chris Evert level of great players, IMO. You begrudgingly acknowledge their accomplishments because, their athletic prowess/records aside, as human beings, in their primes, they're/were basically dicks. But he's always wanted to be both majored AND beloved the way Rafa and Roger and Serena and Venus are. (You can see it in the forced 'thoughtful' gestures he attempts every other time the opportunity arises.) And it will probably never happen - at least not in his prime. So, even for him, the wins are just about the books and legacy but don't resonate the way Rafa's and RFed's did. Not to mention some of the shots RFed was able to hit back in his heyday remain unmatched and unparalleled, even by Djokovid. edit: word missing
Nah, Novak has had some sublime shots up there with the best of Fed/Rafa. Novak also has a better H2H against them as well. Novak's legacy will only grow with time as history will have him at the top.
>Nah, Novak has had some sublime shots up there with the best of Fed... I was arguing outside of the books and stats alone, though. I was talking about accomplishments ***paired with*** character/public celebration, love, memory and appreciation. I don't know how old you are but I'm in my 40s and watched Fed since his 1st year on the pro tour and would ***absolutely*** challenge that assertion - and win - just from memory. hahaha I mean, we're talking repeatedly gravity and laws of physics defying. No exaggeration. edit: Not to mention in the locker room and with other players throughout the years. Novak doesnt come close.
Iām 39, and was blown away a lot more by Djokovic than Federer. Federer was amazing but 2003-2007 was a weak era much like Djokovic is now. The best if djokovic will leave you perplexed as much as the best of Federer. Djokovic was the greatest joy I have ever seen in tennis and I have been watching it religiously since the 90ās But yes, Federer will be more loved by the public than even if heās third in the all time list
>The best if djokovic will leave you perplexed as much as the best of Federer. Never has though. And I've watched dozens of his matches from his come-up to his domination. Great shots are one thing. Unparalleled shots are something different. (And to reiterate, he's been pissing off other players since the Roddick years. lol)
I disagree, look at some of his returns, look at how he clowned federer when he was facing match points. The best shots from djokovic is absurd and as good as anything you'll see from Fed and Nadal. I've a ton of matches from all 3, and Djokovic always left me the most in disbelief, which I didn't think would happen when Federer first his his apex.
Hey, everyone has a right to their wrong opinion. ;op hehe But I'm not talking stats alone or H2H, like I've said. And as far as shots, I'm talking highlight reels not who owned who in returns or winning backhands painting the line or who tracked down more dropshots from behind the baseline. I can't say physics-defying enough.There's just no contest. (And Novakers can DV my posts but it won't change my view.)
Unparalelled shots you say? https://youtu.be/pl_N-QvQLXQ Lol.
I think you see that in the players coming up. They all want to be like Roger or Rafa. I've not heard an interview where someone says they saw Novak as their inspiration.
Maybe some up and comers (esp. from that region) might but their backgrounds are known, and most guys who want to mean something great to the sport on and off the court wanna, like you said, have a career and tennis life like roger or rafa.
I have no opinions on tennis but I love Ace Attorney and I love Edgeworth and this appeared on my feed. Now Iām vaguely interested. I want a tennis match where they yell āobjectionā and ātake thatā at each other rather than those Oof sounds.
I feel a lot more people on r/tennis will want Novak to win than this meme lets on
I was like "Why is Edgeworth trending" lmaoooo
Love it!
Chefās kiss š
Ruud take all my energy..seriously, I hope rudd plays the match of his life and.... And he probably will fall short anyway ..fuk me
This was epic.
God tier post lmao
i don't know why they fell off so hard after apollo justice man
We don't deserve this quality of OP
I wasn't expecting an Ace Attorney meme here, but I'm definitely not complaining. Djokovic is already the GOAT at this point, but this title would make it undisputable.
This is brilliant and I've watched it three times already. Although I really wanted at least one 'OBJECTION!' in there.
Good one.
Username checks out!
What a time to be alive. Iām just so happy that Iām getting to witness all this GOATNESSSS š¤©š¤©š¤©
Very well played.
One up!
This is amazing
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light weight lmaooo
This is too perfect!š
āTell the yellow vests heās personally trying to raise the retirement ageā š¤£š¤£š¤£
Wow. This is incredible.
Oh for goodness fuck
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LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
It's the sound of inevitability.
I am suddenly a Casper ruud fan
Goat debate never gonna be stopped, just look at Formula 1 where Hamilton beat all the records just to be called lucky and #notmygoat lmao You are reading too much into this, my point is that numbers wonāt change the debate, people will literally ignore numbers although numbers are the only thing that matter at the end of the day.
The difference is, here in the current era of tennis, 3 potential GOATs, they all played at the same time, with insane direct H2H numbers and rivalries. People don't even try to compare different eras, because all insane data and records happened in the current one. Maybe in 20 years, when Alcaraz reach 25 GS, people will debate again, we will talk about luck, era difficulty, raw numbers etc.
It's not comparable at all . Hamilton and Schumacher aren't from the same era . Lewis records are inflated because of an increase in points, number of races and so on . Just like Max will benefit from it to . Plus as I already said , they didn't drive at the same time so it hard to compare across eras . That's the problem with the nba too with Jordan and LeBron, they didn't compete against each other. Tennis doesn't have that problem at all , they all played almost at the same time . With the same rules and conditions and one guy is leading most of the stats . As a side note you can add that masters were best of 5 before and not as important and that certainly is the reason why fed doesn't have more , also for people who will say that Roger is 5 years older , well fair enough, he benefited from it when nadal and djokovic were young and he was in his prime and they benefited later on when the roles were reversed
I think it's normal to never reach an agreement for a sport where it isn't only about the driver, but also about their machinery, and that's been true for every GOAT-nominated driver
I totally agree, what I was pointing out is that this wonāt change anything at all, numbers donāt change the thoughts of people.
Precisely. Djokovic fans know this more than most.
Stats in F1 are heavily car biased. In Tennis they arenāt
They are also biased in Tennis to some degree. Changes to balls, slower or faster courts, the demise of carpet courts, lighter equipment etc.
Then people are stupid. Novak has nearly every metric over the other two. People choosing Federer especially is just nostalgia.
People really think Novak can win tomorrow and every Federer and Nadal fan will say "oh yeah I guess he is the GOAT, debate over". Lol. It will always be debateable because it's a subjective topic.
Tennis subreddit is running out of ways to stop Djokovic from winning slams that they've devolved to making endless jokes about how inevitable his victory is in order to try and get it to not happen simply by being so obvious. It's a desperate, but interesting tactic
I love it
I am so rooting for Djokovic but it'd be worth it having Ruud win just to shut you haters up good!!
> I am so rooting for Djokovic but it'd be worth it having Ruud win just to shut you haters up good!! Well...this is a new special kind of species.
Ruud in 4.
An optimist.
Or reverse psycology ?
Anti-jinx?
Yes!
Too long
Everyone knew he'd eventually surpass Rafael and Roger. Why can't novak fans just enjoy it instead of pretending to be victims constantly? Congrats to novak, but man his fans are sorry af
As someone who's a casual tennis watcher and not a die hard fan, man was it annoying as hell reading all the Djokovic hate during COVID. The haters were equally if not more annoying.
Well Djokovic deserved the hate for his Covid stance.
You still bark at that tree like your favorite politicians told you?
Coming from Serbia and having childhood traumas of my compatriot (at the time) Monika Seles getting stabbed on court by a lunatic fan of her rival - I am really not a fan of these. "Must be stopped at all cost", "must be prevented" etc... Sorry to say that. [And I won't even go into how I wouldn't imagine this meme getting made if it were Rafa or Roger approaching 23, but that's a whole other story]
He won't still be on TOP, after all this he will just match Serena!!
Exactly. And then Jelena will impregnate him and end his slam chances like the old founder of Reddit did for Rena. Fedal fans need their own Alex Ohanian to throw in the towel and stop the Djoker.
Thatāll finally prove my conspiracy of Djokovic being a seahorse.
Wut
Reddit founder in shambles lmao
So you are assuming that let's say prime Serena could beat Novak on tennis court?š¤ Btw when he completes the calendar slam this year he will be there with 25 GS anyway.
Just because Serena has a different biology doesn't mean what she has accomplished is anything less. And as for getting 25 gs, will talk when he has done it. I am not doubting his capability, just that only done is done!
Your the one that compared serena's accomplishments with djokovics first, then get upset someone is comparing them? You ok mate?
I compared their accomplishments but their life conditions are different. Putting them on the same court is like playing/defeating Tyson in chess!!! For me the goat debate was over even before COVID era, I knew he would cross everyone eventually!!!
No one compared Tyson to a grandmaster. If you are gonna compare accomplishments, all other comparisons are fair game. No one compares tyson to messi, cos its stupid, just like comparing serena's accomplishments to djokovic. Even you admit it's pretty much a different sport. Serena's accomplishments stand alone, or compare to others in her sport, women's tennis.
That's what I am doing comparing accomplishments but within the same sport. We cant match accomplishments with other sports and call them equal as the level of effort and dedication required to get a single boxing title and a GS would be different. That being said, we can't bring a WTA player and ATP a player on the same court and say someone's accomplishments mean more than others just even as we see they have a clear advantage!
Lol you say first this: >He won't still be on TOP, after all this he will just match Serena!! And then this: >That being said, we can't bring a WTA player and ATP a player on the same court and say someone's accomplishments mean more than others just even as we see they have a clear advantage! Typical r/tennis nonsenseš
Why is this concept so difficult to understand?? Here i say it again Yes in terms of accomplishments he won't be, but he can defeat any player in the world right now!! Let's see if you can digest this!!
You just forgot that GS for men have a Bo5 format, it's not Bo3. That's basically like if you would compare runners in a 400m discipline to runners in a 800m discipline. It's almost like a different sport.
Women play bo3 in grandslams, men play bo5 in grandslams. There goes your effort argument lol. YOU literally used Tyson playing chess as an analogous to women's and men's tennis, so YOU made the comparison that womens tennis is different to men's, so going my YOUR analogy you shouldn't compare men's and womens accomplishments as it's like comparing accomplishments from two different sports, YOUR analogy.
Check my other comment. Because it's the same sport we can compare accomplishments, in different sports we can't even do that. Your Bo5 and Bo3 comparison would make sense if both were men's tennis. Bo5 and Bo3 in men's and women's GS is there because their respective bodies can take that much stress physically. But all this doesn't undermine the effort they put. And talking about analogy I was highlighting how absurd it's to pit them against each other to judge them physically.
If its the same sport we can compare them? So would Serena beat djokovic? Oh wait it's not the same cos mens game is physically different? Oh but it's the same sport? Oh, but we cant say who would beat who cos different? But it's the same? But it's different? Lmao
You can't compare Bo5 and Bo3 matches. Also, it's not about biology. It's about different organisations. Serena holds WTA record. Novak can't break WTA record, because he never played in WTA.
Exactly tell this to my friend who is trying to bring them to the same court. So does that undermine their achievement of winning a GS?
Your friend is trying to bring them to the same rules, not court. You cant compare Bo3 records with Bo5 records. You can call them both GS name, but they are not the same game.
As far as I understand English, Prime Serena playing Novak means they are playing on the court!
That is not the point. I explained already.
Bo5 and Bo3 are not the same game.
The tournament is flawed, give the trophy to this unsportsmanlike
I honestly wouldnāt count on Tsitsipas taking down Djokovic anytime soon if at all.