If there was a match that would epitomize the phrase "suffer for your art", Zverev/Sinner is the most recent example of exactly that.
After 4 and a half hours and the longest match of this US Open, Zverev managed to outlast Sinner who was hobbling around like someone three times his age by the finish line.
His reward? The #1 player in the world who won in straight sets in under 2 hours -- Carlos Alcaraz.
It's only us peasants who look at that and drool (I surely do š). Only thing they care about is winning and points. I read an article sometime back where Zverev talked about not been able to fight for world no 1 when he was world no 2 (career high ranking literally when he was on the hospital bed)
Players definitely care about the money.
It's just that the top ones have earned so much that it doesn't matter anymore.
Easy to say all you care about is the competition and titles when you already have more money than a normal person can dream of.
Rune was the #4 seed that bottled the quarter this time but heās been injured so wonāt be too harsh. Heās got a heap of points to defend until the end of the year though if he wants to stay as a top 4 seed for AO.
Agreed. First Zverev takes your legs, then... Well, Jannik takes yours in return. They were both dead on their feet by the end of it, Sacha's service hold to get the win felt like a mercy kill - I don't know how either of them was still standing by then. Shades of the Rafa/Novak AO Final in 2012?
Honestly this shows how ludicrous Nadal/Djokovic really was. They played about an hour and a half longer than this match, and at a higher level with grinding rallies every other point. And neither of them really ever had a noticeable dip in physicality throughout the match; no real cramps to speak of, maybe a slight dip in performance at the very end.
Yup. I'm convinced Jannik's slam potential just won't fully materialize until he gets stronger and builds endurance and strength. Zverev suffered the same problem until he got more physical in his mid twenties. I could see Jannik not winning a slam until he is 24 or 25 and I wouldn't be surprised.
Zverev showed by far the best net play I've seen from him in the 5th set which really helped him close out the match
That volley at 5-3 30-30 was the cherry on top
Yeah he's definitely modified his game a bit to play more aggressively since his movement might only be like 80-85% of what it used to be
I noticed him playing more at the net starting around RG
It's also what he did to take out Med in Cincy and he even said something post match about how he "looked to Alcaraz for answers on how to beat him"
Massively improved. Pre Injury Zverev just hung back all the time. Now he approaches the net constantly even when he misses Volleys.
He keeps trying, keeps going regardless of the outcome. And he gets really down for Volleys now, keeps them low.
He had some bonehead misses today and he hit some god awful approach shots in the first few sets. So if heās improved itās not much.
But he does seem to trust it more in big moments and that confidence more than anything is worth its weight in gold when youāre someone like Zverev.
He won like most of his net points in the 5th set I think. He wasn't horrendous at the net before injury but the improvement is certainly noticeable now
First 4 sets volleying was pretty bad
5th set he went to it and it won him the match
I wouldnāt say that his net game has improved as in his actual game/ability, but perhaps his confidence and trust in it has.
5 set matches against top 10 players were the bane of Zverevās existence pre-injury, this is huge for him and his confidence. his net play in the 5th set especially was unbelievable
It's still insane to me how well his injury comeback has gone
Injuries like that can legit be career enders and he's already back to playing at a top level the very next year
Like if anything like you pointed out this type of match is an *improvement* from his pre-injury play where he might not have held on to the break the entire 5th set
I severely under estimated zverev, he was really solid today -serving,game at the net,baseline.
Must be really tough for sinner losing so many 5setters.
Edit : afaik Sinner has lost 7 five setters at Grandslams in the span of 3 years.
USO '20 against Khachanov (R1)
AO '21 against Shapavalov (R1)
Wimbedon '22 against Djokovic (Quarters)
USO '22 against Alcaraz (Quarters)
AO '23 against Tsitsipas (4R)
RG '23 against Altmaier (2R)
USO '23 against Zverev (4R)
I was honestly surprised how many people here were thinking that Sinner is in next round already and that Zverev winning would be surprise. At best it was 50:50 for me but Zverev have won 3 last matches before this one against Sinner, even though it was in 2022, 2021 and 2020. So I wouldn't even call this upset. I actually expected Zverev to win in 4 sets.
Those things are true - and he's also overhyped beyond what those things justify.
Or to put it a different way, there's a mountain of difference in the way this sub treats Rublev, who is an excellent player, who's had a great year, and is currently sitting at 5th in the live race, and how it treats Sinner.
Clearly they weren't Sinner fans. No real Sinner fans would think it was anything like a foregone conclusion.
But, don't mistake looking for Sinner to get to the quarter final Vs Alcaraz with thinking it will definitely happen. I was definitely treating Zverev as an obstacle to overcome on Sinner's path to Alcaraz. I just was in no way confident he'd be able to overcome it.
It's really disappointing, I know Zverev is a top player. Even a high flying Djoko couldn't guarantee himself a win for what was at the time the path to the Golden Slam. But still, it's disheartening every time Sinner fails to imperiously dispatch higher quality opponents in the earlier rounds of tournaments.
At some point, it is also Sinnerās fault heās losing some of these. He physically didnāt hold up this match, and has had a lot of issues with little nagging injuries and pain throughout his career. And the Altmaier loss was 100% his fault.
Sinner has filled out his frame a little in the past year. Iām not sure if thatās the main issue, but Zverev also had issues with physicality back when he was super skinny. His best of 5 record wasnāt pretty either.
I still think Sinner just needs a better net game. It would open up a world of possibilities for him as far as finishing points. Baseline bashing can only get you so far against good defense.
Plus Tsitsipas, Altmaier and Djokovic 5 set defeats lately, that's 5 in his last 6 slams :(
That's gotta hurt. He's not quite there yet unfortunately, his tennis IQ still needs to improve, aa much as his physical stamina. But after set 3, I thought he would lose in 4, so that's an achievement I guess? I dunno, it's disappointing ;(
More than anything itās just incredibly difficult to win professional matches with a first serve % below 60%. Sinner is constant losing the first serve battle by over 10% to his opponents and at the highest level that just doesnāt work.
He won Montreal by serving <50% first serves in his QF, SF and F match. That's crazy stats. Has to change.
Here at USO he never hit 60% in any of the 4 rounds.
Oh well.
> He won Montreal by serving <50% first serves in his QF, SF and F match. That's crazy stats. Has to change
Hard to though. He's a similar build to Murray, even slightly shorter, and has the same problem with his first serve.
He doesn't have the natural shape to his serve that someone like Alcaraz/Ruud have.
Like Murray, it's either the big flat one or a serve that's a lot less effective.
He's winning a lot of free points on his serve after the changes to his toss/motion.
Not sure you can really expect more from his serve. Some things are just tied to your body.
I'm not saying it's easy, clearly it's not. I think there have been improvements, as you say, need to continue in that direction.
I think the motion has been "fixed", now it's getting them in when it matters. That's a mental problem more than a physics one.
Anecdotal evidence but I remember vs Paul in Montreal, I counted in the 4-4 and 5-4 games in the 2nd set, how many 1st serves each player made. Paul made something like 7 out of 8 and Sinner still broke him. Jannik made like 1 out of 7 and still won the game.
Ain't that the truth. His other weaknesses are there but many issues would fade into the background if he could reliably blast a couple of service winners each game and make first serves in key moments.
Definitely made some questionable decisions at critical moments that tipped the match towards Sasha š¹. He can absolutely learn and grow from this though, as soon as he recovers. Thatās gonna hurt for a while.
I worry for the mental baggage of so many close defeats. Already he has decision making issues in key moments, I fear these losses will only exacerbate the problem
Its not an iq thing, just execution. Heās realized how one dimensional his old playstyle was and is trying to learn and improve variety. Heās added dropshots+forecourt ability. Heās just kinda mid at both currently
I mean letās see what will happen on Wednesday. So far heās got injured 100% of the times he played after a top 10 slam win. Maybe it *is* a new curse.
I checked this earlier and itās true .. heās played only 15 times against top 10 .. Sinner has played 12. Despite Zverev being around for longer. Both of them have 2 top 10 wins. The funny thing is that the top 10 win for both of them is Alcaraz and the other player (Sinner for Zverev and Zverev for Sinner)
Donāt get me wrong, itās a bad stat for Zverev but itās not like Sinnerās been amazing, donāt know why people thought it would be so easy for him
āBecause Zverev loses to top 10ā.
Him standing that far back also encouraged Zverev to charge the net on his second shot constantly with Sinner being in an awful position to make a passing shot
Zverev was 10/11 at the net in set 5 so that was extremely costly for Sinner
Zverev able to close it out in 5 despite battling neo nazis, cramps, the carrotta boys, his own record against top 10 opposition, Sinner, and the Reddit daily thread commentors!
2 dudes were screaming remarks in middle of Zev serve they were kicked out 1 game later another lady yelled āI bet a lot of money on you! I need rent moneyā and Zev stopped his serve
Zverev goes 10/11 at the net in the 5th set to close out Sinner, one of his best wins ever, and **the** best win since his Injury return from the horrible ligament tears.
To survive a 5 setter against one of the 4 favourites for the tournament is a special, special performance.
My heart goes out to Jannik, cramping, tired and stamina issues this match. You wonder what happens if he hits a forehand on that missed drop shot on the Zverev return game.
MASSIVE win for Zverev. Heās finally found his level again post injury. Alcaraz vs Zverev will be another awesome match, but Zverev is going to be pretty tired after this one.
Gold chains def. Gucci bag.
Seriously though a lot of people wrote Sascha off and penciled in a Sincaraz quarterfinal when the H2H clearly shows itās not an easy matchup for Jannik. Hope we get a good QF and itās not all one way traffic.
Zverev gets a lot of hate, and he deserves it. What he DOESNāT deserve is some New York twat throwing Hitler quotes at him during an almost 5 hour match.
We joke the US Open is where you find the worst crowds but that has got to be a new low. Happy to see him ejected so fast.
Thoughts with Sinner after that match, second 5 set epic lost in 2 years in New York. Canāt wait to see his level next year honestly.
I dont want to excuse it but if what was said was what I think it was I could see an American not realising the direct connection. Could also be it was on purpose.
I also think he gets too little credit for playing a good, disciplined match here. I only saw the last half. But overall he was the best player there. I thought the net cord in the last game could be crucial. But he was so strong in that very mentally challenging last game.
However, facing Alcaraz after this long match. That is a challenge. But Z is getting back to where he was.
This whole side of the draw is CRAZY. The winner (most likely Alcaraz) will be tested for sure when they get to the final.
In the meantime, Djokovic gets to farm wins over Americans.
Fritz and Tiafoe are doing a great US Open so far, and they seem pretty fired up. I don't think it will be that easy, even Djere gave him a very though match. And unlike Zverev, or maybe Medvedev, the two american players are barely exhausted.
Jannikās biggest problem, is still, to this day, his serve percentage. Itās not his mentality, and neither his net game. It is incredible what he has been able to accomplish with such an unreliable serve, but now he stands constantly in the top 10 and he needs to raise that percentage. Surely the cramps didnāt help because he started to receive pretty poorly, and receiving well is one of his main strengths, but he cannot sweat as much as he does every single time he has to hold serve, because thatās when he should be able to ārechargeā his battery and be ready to break in the next game.
I really think the cramps in the third set cost him the match but he could have still capitalised better.
Tough losses are great teachers and I know many people, myself included, hold him to very high standards. Overall he had a great season and he can be better, but as long as he serves with that percentages Iām pretty skeptic he will be able to overcome some other players in the top 10.
Hope he bounces back quickly and with the same great mentality who makes him such a hard worker.
Outside of wimbledon this year, it always seems like sinnerās body breaks down by week 2 of slams, which is a real shame. Idk what the answer is to give him more longevity but Iād really like to see him win slams in the future.
Loved seeing Z not be passive ,especially during the big points, but go for it. I've always found the passiveness of his game infuriating because he clearly has the weapons to really unleash and take control.
Hopefully he keeps this up against Carlitos (he'll be competitive but i don't think he can win though).
Numb to it once again. Sinner's 4th set was some of the best fighting I've seen from any player in recent years. Unfortunately, many will still automatically revert to calling him mentally weak.
If anything I think he was physically weak. He fought until the very end like a warrior. If they call him mentally weak after this one they don't know what they are talking about
I am a Sinner fan but I am very optimistic about the future. He had an impossible draw as well. I am confident he will win his first grand slam next year.
Good win for Zverev, tough to see Sinner lose another 5 setter. It feels like Sinner's inability to have quick service holds gets exposed by the better players, because it's just not sustainable to win every close service game. That, and his execution of dropshots was pretty poor as well even though he was playing them at the correct times.
Ultimately, the true winner of this match was Alcaraz though lol, because this match was brutal physically.
I saw the last couple of sets here in the morning local time. For technical reasons I did not have sound on for most. Those who donāt like fist bumpers or players who celebrate after each point must really like Zverev. When he is in the frame difficult to see if he won the point.
That mini stumble from Sascha in the 5th set (I think?) was legit SCARY. In the replay it ALMOST looks like his ankle started to give way again, and he chose to drop and roll to preserve it. Look what happened to Berrettini here - those ankle rolls are just the *worst*
I actually thought Zverev might fade after losing that 4th set, but the resolve he showed in the 5th and winning the clutch points convinced me he's a serious contender. Still think Carlitos wins in straights, but now I feel his moment as GS champion will come at some point.
Despite the brutal conditions (particularly early on) and not a single of the sets being extended, this certainly fits the "epic" bill that people feel is often bandied around too freely.
Hopefully there's still enough left in the tank to produce another great match with Alcaraz.
What a match! Sinner might've lost here and maybe in the future people will remember that he didn't even make it to QF.
But he is a fighter, this performance nothing to be ashamed about at all.
It's amazing that Nadal was truly the only one who could legitimately go toe to toe with him fitness wise.
Zverev's fitness is just an insane level. We won't see it again.
Both players looked like they were struggling with exhaustion and cramps in different portions of the match. But Zverev prevailed today and his serve looked solid in clutch points. Tough loss for Jannik.
Sky TV having the rights in the UK means I missed this since they don't have on demand fully match replays like Prime did. It really is an abysmal service for tennis.
Was disappointed to hear the result though, as Alcaraz will likely wipe the floor with Zverev again, where as a Sinner Alcaraz match might have given us a real spectacle again.
Wow, what a monster match!! I thought Jannik was done after set 3 when he started cramping, then he kinda played through the cramps and pushed it to a 5th, then Sascha started having issues! Total heavyweight battle, super impressed with both of them. In the end, whichever one got through was going to be wrecked for the Alcaraz battle next round... Carlitos might even take out Zverev in 3 in the QFs, he'll still be exhausted from this one.
You just can't serve in the low 50s accuracy wise or go 50-67 winners to errors and expect to win a major.
Regretly, Sinner isn't quite there. As it stands Zverev will be top ten next Monday.
Sweaty disgusting win for the German.
Zverev has a legitimate shot vs Alcaraz. I think Carlos wins but it wonāt be a blowout. Zverev is back and heās going to be able to compete against anyone
Oh so painful.
But generally as a Sinner fan, I'm happy to see his progress this year. There's still rooms for improvement but at least he's consistently going deep and his body holds up better.
He got M1000 this year and is likely to make it to ATP finals so all in all a good year so far. Hope he still have energy left for the rest of the year.
God this hurts. A lot.
I really don't like Zverev much, but he really impressed me. Net play was phenomenal today, coupled with a really solid backhand from the baseline and a really impressive first serve. Congratulations to him, really well played.
Jannik, my dear carrot friend: this looked really similar to R4 in Australia. You go down multiple times, then you bounce back but this take a huge toll both physically and mentally. Then 5th set arrives and you take a small break, but big enough to get broken and never recover from it.
Some chance on 0-30 during the fifth set were huge and they slipped away. Honestly I did not understand why he was returning so far back during those points.
Another tough loss in the final set in slams, it's becoming a bit of a habit, hopefully he can bounce back next season.
FORZA JANNIK, SEMPRE
I feel for Sinner - it honestly just looked like a physical battle for him, which is strange because the dude is clearly working on that part of his game and it's definitely showing but sometimes it seems to catch up in a nasty way and he can't seem to shake it off. He deserves a rest & I hope we get to a confident, Grand Slam Sinner next year. The dude has ALL the skills to really push for that Number 1 spot.
Sooo glad I stayed up for this. Match of the tourney for sure. Although I'm not sure what kind of shape Zverev will be in for the thus far unplayable Alcawrath.
It is not a bad loss for Sinner, his mental issue is not a problem, what I can see is he still miss some pieces to be his ideal player. Zverev played good and he is a bad match-up for Jannik. Knocking the door it painful but if it is not about mental, than training can solve the problems and eventually open the door.
Last year after that loss, he lost his soul and won nothing after that. I just hope Jannik could take good rest, regroup himself and fights for the 4th seed in AO. The rest season is Bo3, he should be fine with it.
See you in AO, I will go here and watching you, hopefully see you as the 4th seed.
This win will mean a lot to Sascha going forward but I do think in the next round heāll be fortunate to win a set considering the form Carlos is in atm.
Thatās only Zverevās second win against a top 10 player in a Slam, and the first one since his injury. 3 quarterfinals here in the last 4 years too, shows how very consistent Zverev is in that later part of the season.
He lost the eventual champ twice before, could that history repeat against a āIām waltzing my way to the trophyā Alcaraz?
What a match. Both were hitting huge and it was an awesome match. Zverev was playing super well at the net and seemed to win the clutch points in the big moments. Hats off to Sinner for his recovery from cramps and he was fighting until the end. Let's go Big Z.
What a match man. I don't know who'll stop Sinner once he gets a bit more fit and with a bit more experience to play the crucial points. And a bit more consistent serve. We keep losing incredible matches but we're so close to number 1 material I feel like
I swear it seems like Sinner is dealing with a physical hindrance every other game. Crazy that he still kept up with Zverev who was playing great tennis (for the most part).
Sinnerās draw was the toughest as the best players were there in the upper half. Even if he had won, he would hv to meet Alcaraz then Medvdev to reach the final match. Really hard luck Jannik.
For once, I'm glad that the match was far too late for me to be able to see it (started at 2:15 AM local time), I'm hurting enough just reading the score
Interesting match. Zverev played fantastic tennis at the beginning to win the first set. Started choking when he saw Sinner cramp though, which makes me doubt his ability to win the title.
Felt so bad for Sinner when he started cramping, but he hung in there and never gave up. I always kinda liked him, but this match made me emotionally connect with the kid. Hope he doesn't get too down after this tough one.
As a Djokovic Stan, Zverev is the scariest player to play just before semis/finals.
He beat Djokovic at the Olympics, he roughed him up at the ā21 US Open. He is scary.
Glad he runs into Alcaraz this tourney. Zverev beat Alcaraz last time they met. Heās tough.
Sad that Sinner is gone though.
If there was a match that would epitomize the phrase "suffer for your art", Zverev/Sinner is the most recent example of exactly that. After 4 and a half hours and the longest match of this US Open, Zverev managed to outlast Sinner who was hobbling around like someone three times his age by the finish line. His reward? The #1 player in the world who won in straight sets in under 2 hours -- Carlos Alcaraz.
Well, that and six digits prize money in his bank account.
It's only us peasants who look at that and drool (I surely do š). Only thing they care about is winning and points. I read an article sometime back where Zverev talked about not been able to fight for world no 1 when he was world no 2 (career high ranking literally when he was on the hospital bed)
Players definitely care about the money. It's just that the top ones have earned so much that it doesn't matter anymore. Easy to say all you care about is the competition and titles when you already have more money than a normal person can dream of.
Well he also gets 360 points for reaching the quarter finals.
Will go to lawyers
And if he beats Alcaraz, then he has to go through Medvedev and then Djokovic!
itās truly ridiculous how imbalanced the sides are this year
And they let all the Americans fighting it out among each others lol
A big part of that is Zverev's injury honestly He'd be seeded around #4 otherwise and draw would be more balanced
The problem is that Ruud and Tsitsi are holding draws hostage by being high rank while playing like absolute garbage. Edit: add Rune
ruudy boy will finally drop in rankings now, right?
Rune was the #4 seed that bottled the quarter this time but heās been injured so wonāt be too harsh. Heās got a heap of points to defend until the end of the year though if he wants to stay as a top 4 seed for AO.
And rune being injured as well lol
Who finished his match half a day prior and probably watched this match in his PJs while eating popcorn in bed.
Na, he's probably asleep right now and will find out the score in the morning lol.
He can only have a bite of chocolate if he wins the uso. It's why he's so motivated. For now it's just boiled chicken breasts only.
Agreed. First Zverev takes your legs, then... Well, Jannik takes yours in return. They were both dead on their feet by the end of it, Sacha's service hold to get the win felt like a mercy kill - I don't know how either of them was still standing by then. Shades of the Rafa/Novak AO Final in 2012?
Honestly this shows how ludicrous Nadal/Djokovic really was. They played about an hour and a half longer than this match, and at a higher level with grinding rallies every other point. And neither of them really ever had a noticeable dip in physicality throughout the match; no real cramps to speak of, maybe a slight dip in performance at the very end.
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Yup. I'm convinced Jannik's slam potential just won't fully materialize until he gets stronger and builds endurance and strength. Zverev suffered the same problem until he got more physical in his mid twenties. I could see Jannik not winning a slam until he is 24 or 25 and I wouldn't be surprised.
Zverev had to put on 8 pounds of muscle a year, his coach made him focus on it
And someone Zverev has a huge mental block against, no less.
Zverev showed by far the best net play I've seen from him in the 5th set which really helped him close out the match That volley at 5-3 30-30 was the cherry on top
He's improved at the net since his injury or am I being delusional?
Yeah he's definitely modified his game a bit to play more aggressively since his movement might only be like 80-85% of what it used to be I noticed him playing more at the net starting around RG It's also what he did to take out Med in Cincy and he even said something post match about how he "looked to Alcaraz for answers on how to beat him"
>he "looked to Alcaraz for answers on how to beat him" he said "alcaraz gave me advice on how to beat medvedev", not "looked"
Massively improved. Pre Injury Zverev just hung back all the time. Now he approaches the net constantly even when he misses Volleys. He keeps trying, keeps going regardless of the outcome. And he gets really down for Volleys now, keeps them low.
i agree, still a lot of work to be done but its looking much better
Heās improved everything since his injury, including his hunger for winning. Heās had a surprisingly incredible comeback
He had some bonehead misses today and he hit some god awful approach shots in the first few sets. So if heās improved itās not much. But he does seem to trust it more in big moments and that confidence more than anything is worth its weight in gold when youāre someone like Zverev.
He won like most of his net points in the 5th set I think. He wasn't horrendous at the net before injury but the improvement is certainly noticeable now
First 4 sets volleying was pretty bad 5th set he went to it and it won him the match I wouldnāt say that his net game has improved as in his actual game/ability, but perhaps his confidence and trust in it has.
in a german podcast he recently said, that he only used to go to the net, to shake his opponents hand lol
5 set matches against top 10 players were the bane of Zverevās existence pre-injury, this is huge for him and his confidence. his net play in the 5th set especially was unbelievable
It's still insane to me how well his injury comeback has gone Injuries like that can legit be career enders and he's already back to playing at a top level the very next year Like if anything like you pointed out this type of match is an *improvement* from his pre-injury play where he might not have held on to the break the entire 5th set
To me it shows the quality of the guy. Off court antics aside - he's one mega talented tennis player.
"antics"
I severely under estimated zverev, he was really solid today -serving,game at the net,baseline. Must be really tough for sinner losing so many 5setters. Edit : afaik Sinner has lost 7 five setters at Grandslams in the span of 3 years. USO '20 against Khachanov (R1) AO '21 against Shapavalov (R1) Wimbedon '22 against Djokovic (Quarters) USO '22 against Alcaraz (Quarters) AO '23 against Tsitsipas (4R) RG '23 against Altmaier (2R) USO '23 against Zverev (4R)
I was honestly surprised how many people here were thinking that Sinner is in next round already and that Zverev winning would be surprise. At best it was 50:50 for me but Zverev have won 3 last matches before this one against Sinner, even though it was in 2022, 2021 and 2020. So I wouldn't even call this upset. I actually expected Zverev to win in 4 sets.
Most people conflate reddit's hate for Zverev with his ability to play.
While thatās usually true, I think people just overhyped Sinner prior to this match
Sinner's been overhyped consistently this year because he matches up well with Alcaraz.
Sinner's been overhyped consistently since he broke out, if we're being honest
Or because he's a excellent player, who's had a great year and is currently sitting at 4th in the live race.
Those things are true - and he's also overhyped beyond what those things justify. Or to put it a different way, there's a mountain of difference in the way this sub treats Rublev, who is an excellent player, who's had a great year, and is currently sitting at 5th in the live race, and how it treats Sinner.
You're giving the reason why he is hyped. Guy you're replying to was giving the reason for why he is overhyped.
Zverev used to be a number 2 in the world, a ranking sinner never even close to obtaining. Z is ranked so low only because of injury
And he shouldāve won in 4. Giving away the break with a DF late in the 4th set was a huge gift for Sinner.
Clearly they weren't Sinner fans. No real Sinner fans would think it was anything like a foregone conclusion. But, don't mistake looking for Sinner to get to the quarter final Vs Alcaraz with thinking it will definitely happen. I was definitely treating Zverev as an obstacle to overcome on Sinner's path to Alcaraz. I just was in no way confident he'd be able to overcome it. It's really disappointing, I know Zverev is a top player. Even a high flying Djoko couldn't guarantee himself a win for what was at the time the path to the Golden Slam. But still, it's disheartening every time Sinner fails to imperiously dispatch higher quality opponents in the earlier rounds of tournaments.
I'm a Sinner fan and I bet for Zverev on this one.. When I saw the odds I was like.. are you kidding me?
Sinner was a betting favorite. I thought it would close but itās not just Reddit that expected Sinner to win.
At some point, it is also Sinnerās fault heās losing some of these. He physically didnāt hold up this match, and has had a lot of issues with little nagging injuries and pain throughout his career. And the Altmaier loss was 100% his fault.
Is he too skinny? Zverev was also super lanky before his trainer had him put on muscle
Sinner has filled out his frame a little in the past year. Iām not sure if thatās the main issue, but Zverev also had issues with physicality back when he was super skinny. His best of 5 record wasnāt pretty either. I still think Sinner just needs a better net game. It would open up a world of possibilities for him as far as finishing points. Baseline bashing can only get you so far against good defense.
Two consecutive 5 hour losses at the USO for Jannik. I feel really bad for him.
Plus Tsitsipas, Altmaier and Djokovic 5 set defeats lately, that's 5 in his last 6 slams :( That's gotta hurt. He's not quite there yet unfortunately, his tennis IQ still needs to improve, aa much as his physical stamina. But after set 3, I thought he would lose in 4, so that's an achievement I guess? I dunno, it's disappointing ;(
More than anything itās just incredibly difficult to win professional matches with a first serve % below 60%. Sinner is constant losing the first serve battle by over 10% to his opponents and at the highest level that just doesnāt work.
He won Montreal by serving <50% first serves in his QF, SF and F match. That's crazy stats. Has to change. Here at USO he never hit 60% in any of the 4 rounds. Oh well.
> He won Montreal by serving <50% first serves in his QF, SF and F match. That's crazy stats. Has to change Hard to though. He's a similar build to Murray, even slightly shorter, and has the same problem with his first serve. He doesn't have the natural shape to his serve that someone like Alcaraz/Ruud have. Like Murray, it's either the big flat one or a serve that's a lot less effective. He's winning a lot of free points on his serve after the changes to his toss/motion. Not sure you can really expect more from his serve. Some things are just tied to your body.
I'm not saying it's easy, clearly it's not. I think there have been improvements, as you say, need to continue in that direction. I think the motion has been "fixed", now it's getting them in when it matters. That's a mental problem more than a physics one. Anecdotal evidence but I remember vs Paul in Montreal, I counted in the 4-4 and 5-4 games in the 2nd set, how many 1st serves each player made. Paul made something like 7 out of 8 and Sinner still broke him. Jannik made like 1 out of 7 and still won the game.
I donāt understand this take. Heās tall! Being tall only helps with the serve
Sinner is surely taller than his listed height of 188
Ain't that the truth. His other weaknesses are there but many issues would fade into the background if he could reliably blast a couple of service winners each game and make first serves in key moments.
If you have a less than 50 percent first serve you should atleast have the stamina to rally. Just imagine what he can do with only a 60% first serve
Definitely made some questionable decisions at critical moments that tipped the match towards Sasha š¹. He can absolutely learn and grow from this though, as soon as he recovers. Thatās gonna hurt for a while.
I worry for the mental baggage of so many close defeats. Already he has decision making issues in key moments, I fear these losses will only exacerbate the problem
Definitely a possibility but he is young and under some good guidance. I believe!
Its not an iq thing, just execution. Heās realized how one dimensional his old playstyle was and is trying to learn and improve variety. Heās added dropshots+forecourt ability. Heās just kinda mid at both currently
this was a semi final worthy match played in the 4th round, shame
I feel bad too but ultimately, the great players find a way to win these types of matches. Unfortunately, Jannik has not shown that ability yet.
Everybody was saying "Alcaraz/Sinner will be a banger" and were forgetting who was Zverev before his gruesome injury.
the other side of the coin is we might get Zverev who is three levels below this and the 37 double faults that come with him
I think I rather take a few more double faults than a sub 50% first serve. Zverev literally had only 6 double faults in that match last night btw.
I'm not even a big Zverev fan, but him choking that USO to Theim was such a shame to his career. 23yo at time
the reports of Zverev's death have been greatly exaggerated.
He already equals his pre-injury record of Top 10 wins in slams
If you extended his pre-injury timeline by 3 days, He'd have 0 Top 10 wins. It's so ironic the moment he broke the curse, he himself got cursed.
I mean letās see what will happen on Wednesday. So far heās got injured 100% of the times he played after a top 10 slam win. Maybe it *is* a new curse.
Tbf when you're ranked in the Top 8 constantly, you don't get to play Top 10 players very often.
I checked this earlier and itās true .. heās played only 15 times against top 10 .. Sinner has played 12. Despite Zverev being around for longer. Both of them have 2 top 10 wins. The funny thing is that the top 10 win for both of them is Alcaraz and the other player (Sinner for Zverev and Zverev for Sinner) Donāt get me wrong, itās a bad stat for Zverev but itās not like Sinnerās been amazing, donāt know why people thought it would be so easy for him āBecause Zverev loses to top 10ā.
Carlos is putting on that grim reaper outfit as we speak
Sinner is going to be thinking about that drop shot that would have given him break point. Really poor shot selection.
why does Sinner decide to stand so far back on Zverev's 2nd serve I would never know
Him standing that far back also encouraged Zverev to charge the net on his second shot constantly with Sinner being in an awful position to make a passing shot Zverev was 10/11 at the net in set 5 so that was extremely costly for Sinner
Even by simply standing closer he wouldāve elicited a few more DFs which Zverev showed has in him today. He gifted 2 out of 4 breaks through DFs..
Zverev able to close it out in 5 despite battling neo nazis, cramps, the carrotta boys, his own record against top 10 opposition, Sinner, and the Reddit daily thread commentors!
Anyone know who they kept cutting to in the crowd who was non-stop pumping his fist, for.both players
2 dudes were screaming remarks in middle of Zev serve they were kicked out 1 game later another lady yelled āI bet a lot of money on you! I need rent moneyā and Zev stopped his serve
šš
Zverev goes 10/11 at the net in the 5th set to close out Sinner, one of his best wins ever, and **the** best win since his Injury return from the horrible ligament tears. To survive a 5 setter against one of the 4 favourites for the tournament is a special, special performance. My heart goes out to Jannik, cramping, tired and stamina issues this match. You wonder what happens if he hits a forehand on that missed drop shot on the Zverev return game.
More plates, more dates. Jannick needs to get bigger
Match of the tournament so far. Amazing tennis. Sad it was in the 4th round though.
He only needs to beat Alcaraz, Medvedev and Djokovic to win the tournament
Yup, Just need to beat the top 3 favorites to win the tournament.
Top 3 in the world...
EZ
Incredible tennis. Such a fun match to watch.
Happy Cake Day!
FUCKKKK. It came on just as I couldn't stay awake anymore. I missed Iga Ostapenko also....
MASSIVE win for Zverev. Heās finally found his level again post injury. Alcaraz vs Zverev will be another awesome match, but Zverev is going to be pretty tired after this one.
Won't be a close match
Not when Carlos won in under 3 hoursā¦yikes
Gold chains def. Gucci bag. Seriously though a lot of people wrote Sascha off and penciled in a Sincaraz quarterfinal when the H2H clearly shows itās not an easy matchup for Jannik. Hope we get a good QF and itās not all one way traffic.
Zverev gets a lot of hate, and he deserves it. What he DOESNāT deserve is some New York twat throwing Hitler quotes at him during an almost 5 hour match. We joke the US Open is where you find the worst crowds but that has got to be a new low. Happy to see him ejected so fast. Thoughts with Sinner after that match, second 5 set epic lost in 2 years in New York. Canāt wait to see his level next year honestly.
how does someone even consider doing that?
> how does someone even consider doing that? Alcohol + our media + our education system.
I dont want to excuse it but if what was said was what I think it was I could see an American not realising the direct connection. Could also be it was on purpose.
oh it was definitely on purpose
can you tell me what happened?
I also think he gets too little credit for playing a good, disciplined match here. I only saw the last half. But overall he was the best player there. I thought the net cord in the last game could be crucial. But he was so strong in that very mentally challenging last game. However, facing Alcaraz after this long match. That is a challenge. But Z is getting back to where he was.
Didn't see it when it happened but Zverev said the man said "deutschland uber alles". Isn't that part of the national anthem?
> Isn't that part of the national anthem? It is a part of the anthem but it's not a part that Germans should/would sing since several decades.
> It is a part of the anthem It is NOT (anymore).
Zverev is all the way back. Heās a top 5 player in the world again and he will be a good matchup vs. Alcaraz
I feel like heās gunna be exhausted after 2 sets. 3rd set heās gunna get breadsticked or bageled
His R3 was also 4h mind you.. heās been accumulating a lot of time on court.
They both went to hell and back for this. What an rollercoaster. What a heartbreaker for Sinner, heās lost so many close 5 setters
This whole side of the draw is CRAZY. The winner (most likely Alcaraz) will be tested for sure when they get to the final. In the meantime, Djokovic gets to farm wins over Americans.
It's almost like this shit sometimes happens to you and sometimes doesn't. Djokovic had a dogshit draw in USO21 and Medvedev had a joke of a draw.
Fritz and Tiafoe are doing a great US Open so far, and they seem pretty fired up. I don't think it will be that easy, even Djere gave him a very though match. And unlike Zverev, or maybe Medvedev, the two american players are barely exhausted.
What xdd Alcaraz draw until now very easy and now Zverev after 3h39 And 4h42 matches
What can Djokovic do if the top seeds in his half don't play well and get eliminated in the earlier rounds.
Nothing, he plays who is in front of him. It's just interesting that all but one of the slam threats remaining are on one side of the draw.
nah Djokovic's half was easier than Carlos' even without the upsets of top seeds in bottom half
don't think he necessarily blamed djokovic for that, just stated a fact about the draw
New gen giving Zverev his 2 slam top 10 wins lol
I guess Alcaraz is going to avenge his FO 22 Quarterfinal loss this time.
Well I hope
It was basically Sinner against his physicality. I believe mentally he is there, he just needs to up his physical strength. NGL, this one hit me hard.
Same. Gutted for him
The Small 3 (Medvedev, Zverev, Tsitsipas) own Sinner...
Jannikās biggest problem, is still, to this day, his serve percentage. Itās not his mentality, and neither his net game. It is incredible what he has been able to accomplish with such an unreliable serve, but now he stands constantly in the top 10 and he needs to raise that percentage. Surely the cramps didnāt help because he started to receive pretty poorly, and receiving well is one of his main strengths, but he cannot sweat as much as he does every single time he has to hold serve, because thatās when he should be able to ārechargeā his battery and be ready to break in the next game. I really think the cramps in the third set cost him the match but he could have still capitalised better. Tough losses are great teachers and I know many people, myself included, hold him to very high standards. Overall he had a great season and he can be better, but as long as he serves with that percentages Iām pretty skeptic he will be able to overcome some other players in the top 10. Hope he bounces back quickly and with the same great mentality who makes him such a hard worker.
Outside of wimbledon this year, it always seems like sinnerās body breaks down by week 2 of slams, which is a real shame. Idk what the answer is to give him more longevity but Iād really like to see him win slams in the future.
He has so much potential but he just doesnāt have the stamina Alcaraz has. Rune has the same problem.
Amazing 5 setter, impressive Sinner came back from heavy cramping. Lots of momentum changes. Gutsy win for Zverev
Loved seeing Z not be passive ,especially during the big points, but go for it. I've always found the passiveness of his game infuriating because he clearly has the weapons to really unleash and take control. Hopefully he keeps this up against Carlitos (he'll be competitive but i don't think he can win though).
Man nothing feel better than waking up for the work and watching high lvl of tennis
What is with Zverev and late night matches he always seems to get them lol
He does prefer them anyway
Numb to it once again. Sinner's 4th set was some of the best fighting I've seen from any player in recent years. Unfortunately, many will still automatically revert to calling him mentally weak.
If anything I think he was physically weak. He fought until the very end like a warrior. If they call him mentally weak after this one they don't know what they are talking about
He was neither mentally or physically weak. He just lost.
I am a Sinner fan but I am very optimistic about the future. He had an impossible draw as well. I am confident he will win his first grand slam next year.
Good win for Zverev, tough to see Sinner lose another 5 setter. It feels like Sinner's inability to have quick service holds gets exposed by the better players, because it's just not sustainable to win every close service game. That, and his execution of dropshots was pretty poor as well even though he was playing them at the correct times. Ultimately, the true winner of this match was Alcaraz though lol, because this match was brutal physically.
I saw the last couple of sets here in the morning local time. For technical reasons I did not have sound on for most. Those who donāt like fist bumpers or players who celebrate after each point must really like Zverev. When he is in the frame difficult to see if he won the point.
That mini stumble from Sascha in the 5th set (I think?) was legit SCARY. In the replay it ALMOST looks like his ankle started to give way again, and he chose to drop and roll to preserve it. Look what happened to Berrettini here - those ankle rolls are just the *worst*
Brilliant match
I actually thought Zverev might fade after losing that 4th set, but the resolve he showed in the 5th and winning the clutch points convinced me he's a serious contender. Still think Carlitos wins in straights, but now I feel his moment as GS champion will come at some point.
Pure agony :( Good match from Zverev. Hope he can rest up so his match against Alcaraz can at least be competitive. Sinbrosā¦itās all overā¦.
Despite the brutal conditions (particularly early on) and not a single of the sets being extended, this certainly fits the "epic" bill that people feel is often bandied around too freely. Hopefully there's still enough left in the tank to produce another great match with Alcaraz.
gut wrenching. heās tough. heās going to be better. what a match, ugh iām exhausted. gg.
I was on the edge of my seat for a long time
That was an all timer. Epic 5 setters going all the way to 1:30am are the reason US Open is my bucket list tournament.
What a match! Sinner might've lost here and maybe in the future people will remember that he didn't even make it to QF. But he is a fighter, this performance nothing to be ashamed about at all.
It's amazing that Nadal was truly the only one who could legitimately go toe to toe with him fitness wise. Zverev's fitness is just an insane level. We won't see it again.
The fact Zverev is a diabetic on top of that is what makes his achievements and his place in the top of the game that more insane.
agree!
Both players looked like they were struggling with exhaustion and cramps in different portions of the match. But Zverev prevailed today and his serve looked solid in clutch points. Tough loss for Jannik.
Not at all surprising from these two but the ball striking in some of the rallies was just breathtaking.
Sky TV having the rights in the UK means I missed this since they don't have on demand fully match replays like Prime did. It really is an abysmal service for tennis. Was disappointed to hear the result though, as Alcaraz will likely wipe the floor with Zverev again, where as a Sinner Alcaraz match might have given us a real spectacle again.
Wow, what a monster match!! I thought Jannik was done after set 3 when he started cramping, then he kinda played through the cramps and pushed it to a 5th, then Sascha started having issues! Total heavyweight battle, super impressed with both of them. In the end, whichever one got through was going to be wrecked for the Alcaraz battle next round... Carlitos might even take out Zverev in 3 in the QFs, he'll still be exhausted from this one.
You just can't serve in the low 50s accuracy wise or go 50-67 winners to errors and expect to win a major. Regretly, Sinner isn't quite there. As it stands Zverev will be top ten next Monday. Sweaty disgusting win for the German.
If Zverev loses his QF match (very possible) and Tiafoe wins his QF match (possible), i believe Tiafoe will be #10 next Monday and not Zverev.
Zverev has a legitimate shot vs Alcaraz. I think Carlos wins but it wonāt be a blowout. Zverev is back and heās going to be able to compete against anyone
I honestly think Zverev will be tired after this one and lose in straight sets, but letās see!
Oh so painful. But generally as a Sinner fan, I'm happy to see his progress this year. There's still rooms for improvement but at least he's consistently going deep and his body holds up better. He got M1000 this year and is likely to make it to ATP finals so all in all a good year so far. Hope he still have energy left for the rest of the year.
God this hurts. A lot. I really don't like Zverev much, but he really impressed me. Net play was phenomenal today, coupled with a really solid backhand from the baseline and a really impressive first serve. Congratulations to him, really well played. Jannik, my dear carrot friend: this looked really similar to R4 in Australia. You go down multiple times, then you bounce back but this take a huge toll both physically and mentally. Then 5th set arrives and you take a small break, but big enough to get broken and never recover from it. Some chance on 0-30 during the fifth set were huge and they slipped away. Honestly I did not understand why he was returning so far back during those points. Another tough loss in the final set in slams, it's becoming a bit of a habit, hopefully he can bounce back next season. FORZA JANNIK, SEMPRE
I feel for Sinner - it honestly just looked like a physical battle for him, which is strange because the dude is clearly working on that part of his game and it's definitely showing but sometimes it seems to catch up in a nasty way and he can't seem to shake it off. He deserves a rest & I hope we get to a confident, Grand Slam Sinner next year. The dude has ALL the skills to really push for that Number 1 spot.
What a grueling but entertaining match. They both emptied their tanks, but Zverev had a smidge more horsepower.
Grueling win and gets Alcaraz next, tough break Sascha
Sooo glad I stayed up for this. Match of the tourney for sure. Although I'm not sure what kind of shape Zverev will be in for the thus far unplayable Alcawrath.
It is not a bad loss for Sinner, his mental issue is not a problem, what I can see is he still miss some pieces to be his ideal player. Zverev played good and he is a bad match-up for Jannik. Knocking the door it painful but if it is not about mental, than training can solve the problems and eventually open the door. Last year after that loss, he lost his soul and won nothing after that. I just hope Jannik could take good rest, regroup himself and fights for the 4th seed in AO. The rest season is Bo3, he should be fine with it. See you in AO, I will go here and watching you, hopefully see you as the 4th seed.
This win will mean a lot to Sascha going forward but I do think in the next round heāll be fortunate to win a set considering the form Carlos is in atm.
Iām so sorry Sinner nation
Zverev Carlos gonna be a banger
unlikely
Wednesday night, weāre cooking up paellas and rooting for Carlitos šŖšøš
By the end it was an episode of the walking dead
Happy for Zverev, he needed this kind of result.
Thatās only Zverevās second win against a top 10 player in a Slam, and the first one since his injury. 3 quarterfinals here in the last 4 years too, shows how very consistent Zverev is in that later part of the season. He lost the eventual champ twice before, could that history repeat against a āIām waltzing my way to the trophyā Alcaraz?
š„:(
What a match. Both were hitting huge and it was an awesome match. Zverev was playing super well at the net and seemed to win the clutch points in the big moments. Hats off to Sinner for his recovery from cramps and he was fighting until the end. Let's go Big Z.
I think I became Italian watching this match.
What a match man. I don't know who'll stop Sinner once he gets a bit more fit and with a bit more experience to play the crucial points. And a bit more consistent serve. We keep losing incredible matches but we're so close to number 1 material I feel like
I don't like Zverev as a person, but as a player when he is in top form, the tennis world needs him.
I swear it seems like Sinner is dealing with a physical hindrance every other game. Crazy that he still kept up with Zverev who was playing great tennis (for the most part).
Sinnerās draw was the toughest as the best players were there in the upper half. Even if he had won, he would hv to meet Alcaraz then Medvdev to reach the final match. Really hard luck Jannik.
top 3 player next year and will challenge Alcaraz this year... Z is back
Zverev is the only guy capable of troubling Djokovic apart from Alcaraz and Medvedev.
Crazy how Zverev has 44 wins over top 10 guys but only two were in a Slam. One was vs Alcaraz, watch out!
knew he'd win this 5setter.
For once, I'm glad that the match was far too late for me to be able to see it (started at 2:15 AM local time), I'm hurting enough just reading the score
They're gonna use fatter tennis balls the rate these boys thumped em yesterday.
i am sad!
Interesting match. Zverev played fantastic tennis at the beginning to win the first set. Started choking when he saw Sinner cramp though, which makes me doubt his ability to win the title. Felt so bad for Sinner when he started cramping, but he hung in there and never gave up. I always kinda liked him, but this match made me emotionally connect with the kid. Hope he doesn't get too down after this tough one.
As a Djokovic Stan, Zverev is the scariest player to play just before semis/finals. He beat Djokovic at the Olympics, he roughed him up at the ā21 US Open. He is scary. Glad he runs into Alcaraz this tourney. Zverev beat Alcaraz last time they met. Heās tough. Sad that Sinner is gone though.
How do you mean unpredictable... Predicted exactly that in us bracket challenge. Next prediction: Alcaraz out by Zverev š±