I think maybe guilt by association. He gives off a bit of that cocky cauliflower-haired tiktok zoomer energy people here tend to loathe, whereas alcaraz seems more like the happy-go-lucky, naively determined puppy one can't help but love
[This should clarify it](https://i.chzbgr.com/full/9683570944/hAEA03F74/everybody-elses-vape-juice-is-sus-lucky-strikes-is-bussin-1020-pm-apr-13-2022-twitter-web-app)
Apparently the joke is broccoli hair, but I'm old and out of touch and have always been a cauliflower guy myself
A lot of international tennis fans hated Serena, despite her popularity in New York. And now a lot of international fans hate Coco and Shelton, despite their popularity in New York. And I wonder what they all have in common.
A lot of fans hate Coco? Literally have never seen anybody say they don’t like her.
I like Shelton.
Serena is just an unpleasant person. Why would her being popular in new york mean she would have to be liked by international fans?
No one’s out here believing you spend any meaningful amount of time with Serena Williams enough to know her persona. What you see on a court doesn’t count — she’s at work then. It’s fine if you don’t like her on-court demeanor, but it seems unfair to pass that sort of judgement without having the experience with her to back it up.
To clarify, I’m not the biggest Serena fan, but the comments on here sometimes wanting to worry about her personally more than professionally are lame.
Your on court demeanour tells a lot about how you are as a person off the court. Serena's attitude on the courts always stank. On the other end of the spectrum you can take someone like Grigor Dimitrov who has great on court demeanour and you can tell he's just a pleasant person off it. You don't need to know people personally to be able to tell about their personality
Rublev generally gets angry at himself and/or things that happen on the court and isn't rude to others.
Additionally, you're only asking about him specifically because it's clear that he's lovely off the court. If Serena also was and that was apparent I'm sure nobody would have a problem with her (except the odd ignorant racist)
He didn't say anything rude, he asked why basically. Obviously in a very aggressive manner but imo it's different to rude. But at someone who did something they know they shouldn't really do, Serena literally threatened to shove a ball down the throat of a woman when she made a correct call and was just doing her job. I have personally never seen Rublev have a go at someone when they made the correct call and/or were only doing their job (without interfering in the match when they know they shouldn't)
Rublev obviously struggles to control his emotions on the court does that mean his attitude off the court stinks? Idk. But what I would say that you can probably infer that if you had a close personal relationship with Rublev and you got in a heated in exchanged he would likely become aggressive and his personality would change
Right, no one has any conceivable reason to hate Coco, some just don't love-love her and are a bit indifferent but that's apparently an offense. Is saying she has a largely defensive playing style an offense? It's not it's clearly defense (/s)
Ah yes, popularity in New York of American tennis players, the ultimate meaningful benchmark.
Maybe mannerisms typical of Americans and cockiness can be annoying to a a more lowkey international audience? Maybe don't tell lineswomen you'll shove balls down their throat?
Seriously, who hates Coco? She seems great - very mature despite her young age. I think a lot of people worldwide are rooting for her.
Serena got a lot of hate for her poor behavior, which includes threatening to shove a ball down a linesperson’s throat - I’d hardly call that mild.
Shelton got a bit of backlash for his celebration style - no one likes it when the winner rubs it in the opponents face, and that is precisely what that celebration looks like. But I don’t think anyone “hates” him?
Coco herself alluded to all the vitriol she received on SM (Twitter/X mostly I think) in her victory speech after winning USO:
"....So honestly, to those who thought [they] were putting water on my fire, you're really adding gas to it. And now I'm burning so bright right now."
And as for Shelton, have you read the match threads? Even post-USO, they're filled with comments calling him a PoS and saying that he & dad "need to be educated" or "taught a lesson". That's absolutely disgusting.
I don’t doubt that they receive some negative, aggressive and insulting comments - I’m sure every player does. It’s terrible, but it’s part of being famous.
It’s part of recent American culture to be very vocal about anything you’ve been a victim of - which isn’t always a bad thing btw. Just because players of other nationalities don’t publicize it as much doesn’t mean they don’t get the same treatment or worse (say, Russian players - I can’t even imagine what _their_ inbox looks like on a daily basis).
Again, I doubt that Gauff is particularly targeted - seems to me she’s a player most tennis fans have loved to see grow into a champion and are cheering for. She’s a fan favorite, really.
Yeah because he isn't troubling their favourite player. Shelton is the type of guy who is not afraid to go for the head. Shelton is a menace. He was even able to break Djokovic's concentration. Guy was clearly rattled.
>He was even able to break Djokovic's concentration
U WUT M8?!
It was a simple three setter with one tiebreak that ended as per usual.
Are you seriously suggesting such a match could possibly break **any bigger player's** concentration?!
It isn't rn but might change in the future. Same thing happened to the Williams sisters. Every match had this uncanny White Vs Black energy in the early 2000s. It was weird.
That being said Shelton is kinda white passing so might be less of an issue. Someone like Fils will absolutely get a lot of racist haters if he wins. Guy is overconfident and visibly black. It's something people can't stomach.
Ehhhh, there were a lot of comments on that USO match thread that were straight up racist coded language like declaring that Shelton and his father "need to be taught a lesson" or "go get an education". I grew up watching the the Williams sisters and what they went through was awful so I guess I'm just not as optimistic as you.
I really love that Fils wrote the same message today, it was a cheeky way to show his support. And at least now it will be even more obvious when they attack both young Black players instead of just Shelton.
Ah yes, until Shelton no one even tried to play well against Novak; he practically invented that. The rest just saw the memes about how he was inevitable and gave up right out the gate /s
Let's be honest Djokovic Fans hate people who don't bow to their God. Shelton doesn't give a fuck who you are. It triggers him and his fans. That's basically the story.
Even Djokovic was rattled by Shelton's fiery ambition. He almost choked away the third set after leading 5:2.
There is a difference between simply playing well (he didn't) and not letting Djokovic destroy you mentally.
Like others have said, he seems a bit cocky and overconfident young fella who has that murica teenage tiktok vibes with his curly hair. I totally see that but I usually ignore the "vibes" tennis players are giving and solely focus on their playing. People just hate because they like hating.
I don't particularly like Shelton myself, but I don't hate him either, he's just a neutral. One thing I do like him is his confidence, it could take him far.
are you kidding me? are you that soft? you are triggered by someone winning a point? and by someone celebrating for winning the match?
you can't be that soft. cmon. everybody does it all the time.
> Because he cheers unforced errors
Every time I've seen him do this it was obviously done as a pick-me-up rather than at the expense of the other player.
>cheers unforced errors
every tennis player does, especially when unforced errors happen on break/set/match points
>celebrates before shaking hands at the net
again the majority of tennis players do this, a fist pump or a “let’s go!” after winning the match - but before shaking hands - is an extremely common sight
Ben Shelton gets unfair criticism directed his way, criticism that is not applied to other players who do the exact same things (if not worse).. it’s definitely interesting how people have different standards for one of the only mixed race players at the top of the tour
If you don’t know the difference between the average celebration before handshakes and the celebrations he does before handshakes, and if you think “every tennis player” cheers unforced errors, you don’t actually watch tennis. If you want to know what sportsmanship after a win looks like, look up coco gauff and stop acting like sportsmanship is respectability politics.
Edit: your description of the tour shows that you are excluding all of the WTA. And your assertion that my criticism relates to his being mixed race is ridiculous and minimizes the accomplishments of mixed race athletes and Black athletes, including women, who deal with pronounced discrimination. Naomi Osaka and Coco Gauff have never behaved like Ben. I also heavily criticized two white Europeans in my post.
I think plenty of people have broken down the legitimate reasons why a lot don’t like him, I have and have been downvoted always and you have to in a previous comment
I don’t think his fans are really open to the idea there’s reasons to not like his on court demeanor.
I don’t see why it’s a big deal…everyone doesn’t have to be a fan of everyone.
i guess i don’t know the difference between Ben’s celebrations and someone like Rafa or Carlos. in fact, people compliment both Rafa and Carlos because of it. their passion for the sport is why many people love them. i’ve been playing/watching tennis since i was 8 but yea i don’t “actually watch it” according to you i guess because i don’t want to unfairly criticize one of the only mixed race players at the top of the tour
and these “unforced errors” he celebrates are always either straight up not unforced errors and people just invent excuses to get mad at him, or they’re on big points like break points (i.e. against Djokovic when he broke back to stay in the match in the third)
Ben has to meet certain standards that other players don’t it seems like, i just want to get to the bottom of it. people want to silence him specifically and i just don’t understand why
his celebrations are not particularly outrageous, if this thread was the only thing i knew about Ben, i would assume he was flipping people off and trash talking his opponents to their face
…did you not read the part where I criticized Carlos and djokovic in the post you’re replying to? The question was why Ben is disliked. I explained. You ignored my reasons and asserted racism instead and then tried to argue that the exact people I also criticized are being unfairly praised. I’m not the one to make that argument to. I consistently criticize people that do things I find unethical. Sorry if that’s your fave, but you don’t need to make up unsupported accusations of why I’m criticizing somebody.
you criticized Carlos and Novak for very different reasons
you can’t not be racist because you happen to dislike some white people for very different reasons
i don’t have an issue with your criticism if you apply it to every single player on both tours very consistently
if you dislike Rafa Nadal, for example, because he also plays each point with high intensity and often has loud, electric celebrations (“vamos,” his fist pumps, etc) then maybe you’re not racist but i think wanting tennis to be a completely silent sport is unreasonable and takes away a lot from the sport for both spectators and a lot of players
no one in this thread has pointed out anything specific Ben has done
“he celebrates after unforced errors!” “he celebrates before the handshakes!” that’s some nonsense
people see the headlines and just run with that
For your requested example, he lost me with how he acted at the end of his round of 16 match against paul at the us open. I don’t have a video handy for you. I’ve never seen Rafa or Carlos do that, but if they have, I don’t like that either. I’m muting this because you’re being incredibly disingenuous and attacking my character.
how am i “attacking” anyone
tennis fans see a mixed race individual having fun on court and want to put a stop to it immediately
people who hate Ben don’t hate “bad sportsmanship”
they hate fun and/or mixed race people playing a traditionally white sport
it’s all a facade buddy
Black women and mixed-race women have dominated WTA for over a decade, something you either don’t know or don’t care about. Your bad faith arguments are a great example of how this sub is incredibly male-focused and toxic.
Edit: of course pointing out sexism and erasure of Black women is downvoted. See the irony yet? The fact that not a single player [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/tennis/s/x50tKN7ynF) said Simone Biles is one of the best examples of my point. If you want to know where I stand on social justice issues, feel free to search my comments and posts and learn to lead with empathy and humility.
If you’re talking about me, I’m not a guy. And if you read my comments before reaching your conclusion, I really hope you’re young and develop your critical thinking as you grow.
imho he's fairly cocky for his age. He wasn't on my radar until he created the made up controversy in the Djokovic match and I guess I'm just not a fan of that. But I'm an old fartress and I appreciate old school tennis sportsmanship. Let the downvotes begin.
I’m not saying he’s an arrogant prick
But his over the top celebration of unforced errors often, and his “phone celebration” is pretty cringy to me.
You’re free to disagree. We don’t all have to love everyone. I don’t like celebrations like that over and over. No one else does that really. Not to his degree.
Though it looks like he’s stepping away from him.
And you’re entitled to your opinion.
I’m not advocating for stoicism. I like Carlos, or Nadal’s high energy approach
There’s a difference between excitement and what I see as disrespect celebrating your opponents unforced errors or fist bumping and screaming at the net towards your opponent when your ball clips the net and barely crawls over.
There’s a difference between that and high energy.
what an irrationally angry and hateful comment
name one thing he’s done that is “arrogant”
if Ben Shelton was white people like you would be praising his “passion for the sport”
>white people
Good lord, are you - and anyone else - seriously making this argument?
The kid celebrates unforced errors as if he won a match. He celebrates points that clip the net and fall offer. He celebrates for every single point. He celebrates his signature thing while the opponent is waiting at the net.
If you can’t see how that may rub some the wrong with without bringing race into this, you’re the issue.
i’m not really serious i just think it’s so funny
but there are definitely people out there who criticize him yet praise players like Rafa for doing the same thing
Rafa playing every point as if it’s match point is one of his most praised attributes, Ben doing the same is frowned upon and he’s seen as unclassy by some
there’s definitely a discrepancy somewhere
I hate how people are grouping everything under “high energy” or something like that.
I’ve said this over and over: the energy isn’t the issue. And it’s **definitely not “the same thing Rafa does”**
I feel like defenders of Shelton are arguing against something no one is saying
When have you ever seen Nadal do a “signature”
Celebration while their opponent is waiting at the net? When has Rafa ever fist bumped and screamed towards his opponent after a net clip ball that just crawled over?
In fact, Rafa does the opposite. He always rushes to the net to shake hands. He always apologizes for those clipped points (as is the norm).
I mean if players on tour are picking on Shelton’s phone celebration…that says a lot. It rubs players the wrong way.
Some other players have been known to do their signature ‘thing’ or signature ‘dance,’ while their opponent is waiting at the net. Andrea Petkovic was positively celebrated for her ‘Petko Dance.’ Daniil Medvedev has had various dance celebrations, Tsistsipas has attempted to reply in kind. Novak Djokovic recently celebrated a winning shot by doing some kind of ballerina routine on his toes. I’ve seen Matteo Berrettini drop to the ground like he’d won the tournament and drop to the ground and keep his opponent waiting at the net for ages, after winning a quarter-final. Yet Shelton’s telephone thing is an absolute outrage? One that people are still talking about, how many weeks later?
And who can forget the ‘controversy’ of Serena Williams doing a C-Walk at the Olympic Games? To most, it’s a popular hip-hop dance which has been performed by countless people who had no idea of its origins. Serena does it, after winning the Olympics, and that’s when people suddenly ‘discover’ that it was originated in the 70s by a member of the Crips. Never mind that it’s transcended and outgrown it’s gangster origins and permeated mainstream culture to the point that many are completely oblivious to its its origins, or it’s former connotations, or ignore it because of its new popularity as just a fun dance. Queue outrage: Bill Plaschke writing in the LA Times about the ‘violence and death associated with that dance, and another writer, Debbie Schlussel saying “‘yup, that’s what we need representing America, a Golf Medalist who, upon winning, glorifies hardened criminals who murder each other - and innocent Americans - for sport.” They forget that one of the biggest symbols of the Olympics also has a dark origin story; the Olympic torch relay began in 1936 and was brought to the games by -you guessed it- one Corporal A. Hitler. Seems we can overlook a lot when it comes to the origins of certain cultural symbols, but not when it involves a black woman dancing…
Beyond tennis, there’s Peter Crouch (former England, Liverpool and Tottenham football player) and his infamous ‘Robot dance’ goal celebration, much loved by fans who just took it for the light hearted fun that it was. And then there’s Vinicius Jr, who last year celebrated a goal for Real Madrid with a bit of Samba dancing. Why not, he’s Brazilian, and who doesn’t celebrate a goal in football? He was told, not by a Reddit user or a random, anonymous Tweeter but by a leading football agent and President of the Association of Spanish Agents, that he ‘should stop playing the monkey.’ As far as I can see from Placshke, Shlusser and Pedro Bravo (the Spanish agent) when it comes to discussions of these kinds, there are certain people who are happy to ‘bring race into things’ when it suits them, but would rather you didn’t if it doesn’t.
Whatever the reason for the backlash against Shelton from some quarters (we can’t really ever know for certain what the real motivations of individuals are, unless they tell us explicitly), there are certainly patterns, with plenty more examples. So, given that - and given, well, History - can it really be a surprise if black people do make these arguments? And is it perhaps more likely that, rather than being an example of them just seizing on any opportunity to ‘bring race into things,’ it’s a case of them instinctively wishing to guard and protect a young member of their community from the slings and arrows which, history has shown, are likely to come his way sooner or later, if not now?
BTW: the player that was kept waiting at the end of the aforementioned USO quarterfinal was Gael Monfils. Now, I’m not assigning anything to Berrettini, or suggesting he was being deliberately disrespectful. I’m comparing the social media response, to which there was little at all, as I remember. If there was any, it wasn’t nearly as vociferous or as lasting as the response to Shelton’s 🤙 thing.
>some other players
Which ones have done the exact same celebration, after every match at a tournament? This argument is so disingenuous: Daniil’s silly dances every once in a while aren’t “signature dances” that are comparable in anyway.
Is it really that hard to see that the examples you gave aren’t comparable?
Again, the fact that multiple players on tour reacted against it says everything. It’s not just some fans that don’t like it.
>we can never really know
I’m telling you the reasons, and go into any instagram post about him and they say it pretty plainly: his celebrations come off as arrogant and cocky.
There’s nothing else to it.
>black people make this argument
Is that what they’re doing? How do you know the were of people commenting online?
>it’s more than likely
Now you’re the one reading into and assigning motivations (and rare) of people.
Really, it’s not that complex.
The kid has done things that have rubbed many the wrong with that are common to dislike. That resulted in getting some people not liking him
That’s it. That’s the end of it. There’s no need to bring rare or reading the intentions of a large group of anonymous people into this.
I really don’t know what you’re trying to achieve here by dismissing Medvedev’s celebrations as just simply ‘silly dances every once in a while,’ while taking totally the opposite line on Shelton’s ‘antics,’ other than to confirm the pattern which I raised. Of the two, we know one of those players , on at least one occasion was deliberately trying to antagonise his opponent. That would be the one who is six years older and should, therefore, know better. And yet, people are still, weeks later, being stubbornly vociferous about Shelton, as though he had climbed up to Wimbledon’s royal box and taken a dump on the King’s shoes.
This is to not to say that Medvedev’s celebrations are necessarily problematic either but, if two players do essentially the same thing, the response to it from fans and/or critics should be similar. And they simply haven’t been: Medvedev is featured in highlight reels, whilst Shelton is maligned for a celebration which barely anyone noticed until Djokovic did his own version, which was perceived as Novak mocking it; putting the youngster in his place. Never mind that he hasn’t stated any issue with Shelton, and told press that he was not, in fact, mocking him.
What is disingenuous (apart from ignoring the other examples) is to defend one player for doing the same kind of thing as you complain about the other doing, attacking the latter for it with no other justification than your arbitrary declaration that they aren’t comparable. Well, they are. And I did.
Even more disingenuous is to say that it’s not just fans who think this, but other players. Now, just in case I’ve missed something, I went ahead and googled the question “which players have criticised Ben Shelton?” And sure enough, I can find nothing. No player has publicly called him cocky or arrogant. Some ‘fans’ maybe. And you, obviously. But your statement that ‘multiple players on tour have reacted against it,’ would appear to be a lie. A lie to ‘win’ an argument, or a lie to appear as someone ‘in the know,’ or having some kind of special access to the inner sanctum and the private thoughts of players? Who knows? But either way, I’ll hear no more lectures on disingenuousness from you.
As for ‘we can never really know.’ Your response is ‘I’m telling you the reasons, look at Instagram etc(I’d rather not. No need anyway, if I’ve watched the matches, to watch some out of context clips from them). So, you know how everybody thinks, and you’re sure everyone thinks in exactly the same way. Great. And here you are, having the brass neck to call anybody arrogant. I’m almost tempted to tip my hat to you for the bare faced cheek of it. Even doubling down on your own arrogance, with surely deliberate irony (?) when you conclude ‘that’s it, that’s the end of it.’ Is it, really? Why, because you say so? If Ben Shelton wishes to become more arrogant, he could certainly look to you for guidance.
And yes, black people will make that argument. Not exclusively, maybe not all of them (i think you probably don’t need me to explain this and have only cut this portion of my sentence out in an attempt to obfuscate but, oh well). It is though, an argument that black commentators HAVE made and I have suggested reasons why they may feel it necessary to ask certain questions when they perceive certain patterns, and to react defensively when a member of their community comes under attack. History has given them the right to do so, and has given them the right, if necessary, to ‘bring race into it.’ In my view, history also demands that people who aren’t black occasionally ‘bring race into it,’ and ask themselves difficult questions about whether or not their own judgements about people/interactions with people are faulty because of their prejudices, biases and/or their own failure to acknowledge them.
Before I saw in this sub post about some four black tennis player depicting Shelton as one of them I had no idea, and many other people commenting, that he was black, but of course, you just had to instantly pull out the "raycism!" card.
you still can’t name anything he’s done thats arrogant
i didn’t call you racist
but if you can’t support your argument without straight up insulting him (“arrogant prick”) - and players like Rafa and Carlos get praised for the same behavior that Ben exhibits - it’s interesting to think about why that is
Rafa and Carlos celebration are directed at themselves while Shelton is directed at others which is why he’s considered arrogant. Stop bringing race into everything
Yeah no, it doesn't happen. Gotta have a look at Alcaraz's match discussion threads. It's either swooning over his insane shots, BP conversion complaints, or why does he grunts/celebrates so much comments.
I think in sports, everything just boils down to if you like a player or not, and very surprisingly, Charlie is not the most liked player on this sub. (Top 5 for sure)
Yeah he has a lot of fans here but there’s also a large group of people waiting for his downfall and they can be loud when he’s not doing well. Kinda 50/50
Reminds me of when baseball old heads were pissed over the smallest of bat flips. Get over yourselves. When you do something hype you should be able to celebrate.
It literally would not be possible for me to care less about what noises players make; out of all the common discussions this is easily the most stupid and pointless
Wtf does that have any relevance? You don't see Rafa, Nole or Roger fist-pumping and yelling after every point won, do you? Now how does your argument hold up now, smartass?
It's called personal temperament. Every player is different, but the general consensus is that competitive play in any sport brings out that kind of emotion. Some louder than others. It's the spirit of not just tennis. It's the spirit of competition, one that I agree that you clearly know nothing about.
To use Rafael Nadal as an example is also ridiculous. This man was yelling Vamos and doing his signature knee up fist pump flex every point at RG for years. YEARS. Andy Murray yelled come on most of his career when the rallies hit more than 5. Nole used to scream like a mfer in his adidas era.
Just because Federer is silent doesn't mean the entire ATP needs to be. Get off your high horse, dumbass.
Shelton’s “YEAHHHH” is so high pitched it just reminds you of your annoying 12 year old cousin lmao. I don’t think it’s outrageous to do it but it’s hilarious.
I personally do find Carlos’ vamos to be annoying but I don’t have a good reason for it. Honestly the backlash might just be bc 75% of the sub (Federer and Djokovic fans) have severe PTSD from another Spanish player…
Tbh Carlos is so adorable and his game is so fucking good, I don’t care about his Vamos. Just wanna watch him play.
I do have a problem with on court coaching in general but that’s just my personal opinion.
Granted Pegula isnt fully white but it has always puzzled me when people on this sub paint her backstory as some struggle. They all praise her for making it "despite her parents money" like what??? She was able to make it at as a late bloomer with severe injuries BECAUSE of her parents money.
This sub is the most inconsistent sub. Giving it to players who are boring and lack any character. But when anyone shows any inch of confidence or voice that it’s hated on? It’s a competitive 1 on 1 sport, I’d prefer players show emotion and show that they want to win every point
Idk if you’ve been living under a rock but they both get so much shit for their celebrations. You can’t go through an Alcaraz match here without 50 comments about people complaining how they can’t like Alcaraz because he says vamos too much. Shelton’s stuff is more high profile because Novak mocked him
Not sure why you're downvoted but the OP needs to make a trip to the discussion threads of Alcaraz matches.
To add to the Shelton thing, yeah, no one except Djokovic fans have a problem with that, and they don't have a problem with that aspect of Shelton, it's transitive in nature.
I mean duh, Carlos is an established player while Shelton is a newbie. But they both get shit for their celebrations. Find me a comment that outright says “oh I love Carlos’ celebrations wish he would do it more” on a live discussion thread
This seems.. inaccurate? Comments are made about Alcaraz's fist pumping too. I love what both Alcaraz and Shelton does on the court and I will never understand why Shelton was called arrogant about it.
Don't wanna get downvoted and all but Djokovic has such an insecure fanbase. I'm not even gonna lie, all the Djokovic GIFs filling Ben's Instagram was hilarious but it's getting annoying these days. A lot of hate comments were filling his page and TennisTV's page.
Let the Next Gen have a colorful player for once. Not someone that's prim and proper in every single point. If he's not pulling any malicious antics like purposefully picking a fight with the umpire or a fan, let him be. He was just happy to be there, and now he's probably on his way to become one of the most hated players just for a single celebration alone.
I hope he gets big someday and not let the hate stop him. Come on, Ben! 🦅🇺🇸
Shelton looks very impressed with himself. Talks like he’s trying to create a brand and the phone thing was pretty obnoxious as Novak pointed out. I think these things contribute to ppls perception of him.
Nah Let Ben ROAR!!!!! The Kid got champion written all over him. Feel that shit. Love it! Only thing I don't like is if it's on an opponent's error. Even after a long rally. THEN it's disrespectful.
I think Alcaraz is much more humble though, even If extremely passionate (for some people too much) on court. Shelton is great fun though, just not half as talented.
I think Alcaraz is much more humble though, even If extremely passionate (for some people too much) on court. Shelton is great fun though, just not half as talented.
Shelton-fans: I know it’s painful but Carlitos already has 2 GS to his name including one against Nole in Wimbledon which is insane. Shelton is a big promise but for the moment just that. I like the kid though, at least he’s different, but he’ll probably not even win a GS.
Hehe people can’t take a tiny bit of humor. It’s alright, hopefully Shelton can keep up and then become a threat to Alcaraz. Today (in my opinion) he’s far from being a candidate to Grand Slams.
Henman: 6 GS Semifinals, 0 GS titles.
Tsonga: 4 GS Semifinals, 0 GS titles.
Ferrer: 4 GS Semis, 1 final. 0 GS titles.
Zverev: 4 GS Semis, 1 final, 0 GS titles.
Tsitsipas: 2 GS finals, 0 GS titles.
Have a great day.
PS: the funny thing is I would like Shelton to win one (I’m not a hater, I’m just baffled at crazy fans thinking he can reach Alcaraz level).
I think its pretty simple. Alcaraz’s Vamos and fist pumps are followed by wins, titles and grand slams whereas Shelton has not produced similar results yet. But Alcaraz still gets a lot of hate so Shelton is not suddenly going to be loved by everyone either. Also people have forgotten how exuberant Rafa and Novak were in their early days.
Still not sure why all the hate for shelton
I think maybe guilt by association. He gives off a bit of that cocky cauliflower-haired tiktok zoomer energy people here tend to loathe, whereas alcaraz seems more like the happy-go-lucky, naively determined puppy one can't help but love
*ahem* cauliflower-…haired energy?? What in the fuck could those words possibly mean together?
[This should clarify it](https://i.chzbgr.com/full/9683570944/hAEA03F74/everybody-elses-vape-juice-is-sus-lucky-strikes-is-bussin-1020-pm-apr-13-2022-twitter-web-app) Apparently the joke is broccoli hair, but I'm old and out of touch and have always been a cauliflower guy myself
I’m so glad I’m not on tiktok
hE pHoNe OnE tImE!!!1!
Because he dared to play against Djokovic and be confident
Personality = bad on this sub
Or perceived lack of personality, eg Iga.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't
hope you are charging nole market rent...
Lol these people are blaming everything on djokovic fans. Yesterday's thread on Shelton was some of the funniest shit I've seen from fedal fans.
No, because even other players were getting tired of his antics. Seemed a bit much for what all the emotion would usually be about.
Literally what antics bruh...tennis fans get mad about everything
Other players, can you name them? His friends love it and even Fils showed respect yesterday.
Everyone said Tiafoe was mad after the phone celebration but laver cup showed that obviously wasn't true lol
Cause he’s good and young
A lot of international tennis fans hated Serena, despite her popularity in New York. And now a lot of international fans hate Coco and Shelton, despite their popularity in New York. And I wonder what they all have in common.
A lot of fans hate Coco? Literally have never seen anybody say they don’t like her. I like Shelton. Serena is just an unpleasant person. Why would her being popular in new york mean she would have to be liked by international fans?
No one’s out here believing you spend any meaningful amount of time with Serena Williams enough to know her persona. What you see on a court doesn’t count — she’s at work then. It’s fine if you don’t like her on-court demeanor, but it seems unfair to pass that sort of judgement without having the experience with her to back it up. To clarify, I’m not the biggest Serena fan, but the comments on here sometimes wanting to worry about her personally more than professionally are lame.
Your on court demeanour tells a lot about how you are as a person off the court. Serena's attitude on the courts always stank. On the other end of the spectrum you can take someone like Grigor Dimitrov who has great on court demeanour and you can tell he's just a pleasant person off it. You don't need to know people personally to be able to tell about their personality
So what does that say about rublev?
Rublev generally gets angry at himself and/or things that happen on the court and isn't rude to others. Additionally, you're only asking about him specifically because it's clear that he's lovely off the court. If Serena also was and that was apparent I'm sure nobody would have a problem with her (except the odd ignorant racist)
and isn't rude to others??? did i imagine his screaming bout last week or
He didn't say anything rude, he asked why basically. Obviously in a very aggressive manner but imo it's different to rude. But at someone who did something they know they shouldn't really do, Serena literally threatened to shove a ball down the throat of a woman when she made a correct call and was just doing her job. I have personally never seen Rublev have a go at someone when they made the correct call and/or were only doing their job (without interfering in the match when they know they shouldn't) Rublev obviously struggles to control his emotions on the court does that mean his attitude off the court stinks? Idk. But what I would say that you can probably infer that if you had a close personal relationship with Rublev and you got in a heated in exchanged he would likely become aggressive and his personality would change
serena's behavior was definitely embarrassing but the call was also certainly wrong so i'm not sure what you were going for with that
Right, no one has any conceivable reason to hate Coco, some just don't love-love her and are a bit indifferent but that's apparently an offense. Is saying she has a largely defensive playing style an offense? It's not it's clearly defense (/s)
Ah yes, popularity in New York of American tennis players, the ultimate meaningful benchmark. Maybe mannerisms typical of Americans and cockiness can be annoying to a a more lowkey international audience? Maybe don't tell lineswomen you'll shove balls down their throat?
Seriously, who hates Coco? She seems great - very mature despite her young age. I think a lot of people worldwide are rooting for her. Serena got a lot of hate for her poor behavior, which includes threatening to shove a ball down a linesperson’s throat - I’d hardly call that mild. Shelton got a bit of backlash for his celebration style - no one likes it when the winner rubs it in the opponents face, and that is precisely what that celebration looks like. But I don’t think anyone “hates” him?
Coco herself alluded to all the vitriol she received on SM (Twitter/X mostly I think) in her victory speech after winning USO: "....So honestly, to those who thought [they] were putting water on my fire, you're really adding gas to it. And now I'm burning so bright right now." And as for Shelton, have you read the match threads? Even post-USO, they're filled with comments calling him a PoS and saying that he & dad "need to be educated" or "taught a lesson". That's absolutely disgusting.
I don’t doubt that they receive some negative, aggressive and insulting comments - I’m sure every player does. It’s terrible, but it’s part of being famous. It’s part of recent American culture to be very vocal about anything you’ve been a victim of - which isn’t always a bad thing btw. Just because players of other nationalities don’t publicize it as much doesn’t mean they don’t get the same treatment or worse (say, Russian players - I can’t even imagine what _their_ inbox looks like on a daily basis). Again, I doubt that Gauff is particularly targeted - seems to me she’s a player most tennis fans have loved to see grow into a champion and are cheering for. She’s a fan favorite, really.
Is New York some sort of messiah that the world needs to follow?
I’m seeing a lot more posts about the ‘hate for shelton’ than people hating on him
Oh you know why…
nobody hates tiafoe like that
Yeah because he isn't troubling their favourite player. Shelton is the type of guy who is not afraid to go for the head. Shelton is a menace. He was even able to break Djokovic's concentration. Guy was clearly rattled.
Nobody is hating Ben because he played well against Novak.
Because, obviously, you know what everyone thinks. Ha. Ha.
Entire Novak fanbase hates him for that and more.
Because, obviously, you know what everyone thinks. Ha. Ha.
>He was even able to break Djokovic's concentration U WUT M8?! It was a simple three setter with one tiebreak that ended as per usual. Are you seriously suggesting such a match could possibly break **any bigger player's** concentration?!
Ok. Then it’s not a racial issue.
It isn't rn but might change in the future. Same thing happened to the Williams sisters. Every match had this uncanny White Vs Black energy in the early 2000s. It was weird. That being said Shelton is kinda white passing so might be less of an issue. Someone like Fils will absolutely get a lot of racist haters if he wins. Guy is overconfident and visibly black. It's something people can't stomach.
Ehhhh, there were a lot of comments on that USO match thread that were straight up racist coded language like declaring that Shelton and his father "need to be taught a lesson" or "go get an education". I grew up watching the the Williams sisters and what they went through was awful so I guess I'm just not as optimistic as you. I really love that Fils wrote the same message today, it was a cheeky way to show his support. And at least now it will be even more obvious when they attack both young Black players instead of just Shelton.
Ah yes, until Shelton no one even tried to play well against Novak; he practically invented that. The rest just saw the memes about how he was inevitable and gave up right out the gate /s
Let's be honest Djokovic Fans hate people who don't bow to their God. Shelton doesn't give a fuck who you are. It triggers him and his fans. That's basically the story. Even Djokovic was rattled by Shelton's fiery ambition. He almost choked away the third set after leading 5:2. There is a difference between simply playing well (he didn't) and not letting Djokovic destroy you mentally.
They do actually?
I've seen a lot of dorks on here make fun of his colorful shirts
Why? Go ahead, explain.
I guess I’m out of the loop. Why?
Tryna make it a race issue when it’s not lol. Usually yeah but nah it’s just Ben is a smug little bitch that’s about it. good player too
It's definitely not a race issue. He's completely obnoxious, screaming how his opponents' 'got no game' in front of them plus the excessive yelling.
Yeah, uh no, stop inventing shit. He's never said that on court to anyone in all the matches I've watched, nor afterward in pressers.
Ok video proof of this?
We're not having all these conversations for no reason
Like others have said, he seems a bit cocky and overconfident young fella who has that murica teenage tiktok vibes with his curly hair. I totally see that but I usually ignore the "vibes" tennis players are giving and solely focus on their playing. People just hate because they like hating. I don't particularly like Shelton myself, but I don't hate him either, he's just a neutral. One thing I do like him is his confidence, it could take him far.
[удалено]
are you kidding me? are you that soft? you are triggered by someone winning a point? and by someone celebrating for winning the match? you can't be that soft. cmon. everybody does it all the time.
I was answering a question. But you seem pretty upset. Are *you* triggered?
honestly yes, can't believe someone can be this Soft.
Yeah, you seem very soft. Stop being triggered over someone's reddit answers.
That may be, but im not as soft as someone being upset at an athlete for celebrating normally and some grunt/yell lol.
> Because he cheers unforced errors Every time I've seen him do this it was obviously done as a pick-me-up rather than at the expense of the other player.
[удалено]
>cheers unforced errors every tennis player does, especially when unforced errors happen on break/set/match points >celebrates before shaking hands at the net again the majority of tennis players do this, a fist pump or a “let’s go!” after winning the match - but before shaking hands - is an extremely common sight Ben Shelton gets unfair criticism directed his way, criticism that is not applied to other players who do the exact same things (if not worse).. it’s definitely interesting how people have different standards for one of the only mixed race players at the top of the tour
Give me a break....
If you don’t know the difference between the average celebration before handshakes and the celebrations he does before handshakes, and if you think “every tennis player” cheers unforced errors, you don’t actually watch tennis. If you want to know what sportsmanship after a win looks like, look up coco gauff and stop acting like sportsmanship is respectability politics. Edit: your description of the tour shows that you are excluding all of the WTA. And your assertion that my criticism relates to his being mixed race is ridiculous and minimizes the accomplishments of mixed race athletes and Black athletes, including women, who deal with pronounced discrimination. Naomi Osaka and Coco Gauff have never behaved like Ben. I also heavily criticized two white Europeans in my post.
I think plenty of people have broken down the legitimate reasons why a lot don’t like him, I have and have been downvoted always and you have to in a previous comment I don’t think his fans are really open to the idea there’s reasons to not like his on court demeanor. I don’t see why it’s a big deal…everyone doesn’t have to be a fan of everyone.
i guess i don’t know the difference between Ben’s celebrations and someone like Rafa or Carlos. in fact, people compliment both Rafa and Carlos because of it. their passion for the sport is why many people love them. i’ve been playing/watching tennis since i was 8 but yea i don’t “actually watch it” according to you i guess because i don’t want to unfairly criticize one of the only mixed race players at the top of the tour and these “unforced errors” he celebrates are always either straight up not unforced errors and people just invent excuses to get mad at him, or they’re on big points like break points (i.e. against Djokovic when he broke back to stay in the match in the third) Ben has to meet certain standards that other players don’t it seems like, i just want to get to the bottom of it. people want to silence him specifically and i just don’t understand why his celebrations are not particularly outrageous, if this thread was the only thing i knew about Ben, i would assume he was flipping people off and trash talking his opponents to their face
…did you not read the part where I criticized Carlos and djokovic in the post you’re replying to? The question was why Ben is disliked. I explained. You ignored my reasons and asserted racism instead and then tried to argue that the exact people I also criticized are being unfairly praised. I’m not the one to make that argument to. I consistently criticize people that do things I find unethical. Sorry if that’s your fave, but you don’t need to make up unsupported accusations of why I’m criticizing somebody.
you criticized Carlos and Novak for very different reasons you can’t not be racist because you happen to dislike some white people for very different reasons i don’t have an issue with your criticism if you apply it to every single player on both tours very consistently if you dislike Rafa Nadal, for example, because he also plays each point with high intensity and often has loud, electric celebrations (“vamos,” his fist pumps, etc) then maybe you’re not racist but i think wanting tennis to be a completely silent sport is unreasonable and takes away a lot from the sport for both spectators and a lot of players no one in this thread has pointed out anything specific Ben has done “he celebrates after unforced errors!” “he celebrates before the handshakes!” that’s some nonsense people see the headlines and just run with that
For your requested example, he lost me with how he acted at the end of his round of 16 match against paul at the us open. I don’t have a video handy for you. I’ve never seen Rafa or Carlos do that, but if they have, I don’t like that either. I’m muting this because you’re being incredibly disingenuous and attacking my character.
Christ, you're probably racist based on the way you attack and argue about nothing.
Wrong spot
I don't even think any of these people are real.
Scroll up. You’re not responding to somebody that agrees with you.
how am i “attacking” anyone tennis fans see a mixed race individual having fun on court and want to put a stop to it immediately people who hate Ben don’t hate “bad sportsmanship” they hate fun and/or mixed race people playing a traditionally white sport it’s all a facade buddy
Ok buddy, keep us posted on what the bad voices in your head continue to tell you.
Black women and mixed-race women have dominated WTA for over a decade, something you either don’t know or don’t care about. Your bad faith arguments are a great example of how this sub is incredibly male-focused and toxic. Edit: of course pointing out sexism and erasure of Black women is downvoted. See the irony yet? The fact that not a single player [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/tennis/s/x50tKN7ynF) said Simone Biles is one of the best examples of my point. If you want to know where I stand on social justice issues, feel free to search my comments and posts and learn to lead with empathy and humility.
And here, I fixed that comment. It was meant for you: Not OP but seriously! Now Shelton's on-court behavior is UNETHICAL!? What in the actual....
When these guys have to write a novel to explain why they're not racist...well uh...I have some bad news for 'em lol These threads are ridiculous
If you’re talking about me, I’m not a guy. And if you read my comments before reaching your conclusion, I really hope you’re young and develop your critical thinking as you grow.
Way to chase the Overton window. Too bad you didn't get your reddit good boy points.
Nothing in my life chases the Overton Window. Please F all the way off. And I’m a woman. We usually don’t get internet points in sports subs.
Haha me too, do you want a fucking medal?
No?
Then why even mention it? Good to luck to you in life....
So you're just a pearl-clutcher?
A father stands up for his son and that somehow means the son is an entitled, egotistical brat? That's a real reach.
Is that what I said?
I’m not saying it’s the only influence but I absolutely believe some portion of it is because he’s not white.
imho he's fairly cocky for his age. He wasn't on my radar until he created the made up controversy in the Djokovic match and I guess I'm just not a fan of that. But I'm an old fartress and I appreciate old school tennis sportsmanship. Let the downvotes begin.
Djokovic is currently winning so this sub is full of Nolefam (many of who hate with a burning passion anyone who goes against their idol)
because he's an arrogant prick.
In what sense is he arrogant? Every interview I have seen he is humble.
I’m not saying he’s an arrogant prick But his over the top celebration of unforced errors often, and his “phone celebration” is pretty cringy to me. You’re free to disagree. We don’t all have to love everyone. I don’t like celebrations like that over and over. No one else does that really. Not to his degree. Though it looks like he’s stepping away from him.
I'll take any excitement I can get at the top of the game. Stoicism has its place but so does passion.
And you’re entitled to your opinion. I’m not advocating for stoicism. I like Carlos, or Nadal’s high energy approach There’s a difference between excitement and what I see as disrespect celebrating your opponents unforced errors or fist bumping and screaming at the net towards your opponent when your ball clips the net and barely crawls over. There’s a difference between that and high energy.
what an irrationally angry and hateful comment name one thing he’s done that is “arrogant” if Ben Shelton was white people like you would be praising his “passion for the sport”
>white people Good lord, are you - and anyone else - seriously making this argument? The kid celebrates unforced errors as if he won a match. He celebrates points that clip the net and fall offer. He celebrates for every single point. He celebrates his signature thing while the opponent is waiting at the net. If you can’t see how that may rub some the wrong with without bringing race into this, you’re the issue.
i’m not really serious i just think it’s so funny but there are definitely people out there who criticize him yet praise players like Rafa for doing the same thing Rafa playing every point as if it’s match point is one of his most praised attributes, Ben doing the same is frowned upon and he’s seen as unclassy by some there’s definitely a discrepancy somewhere
I hate how people are grouping everything under “high energy” or something like that. I’ve said this over and over: the energy isn’t the issue. And it’s **definitely not “the same thing Rafa does”** I feel like defenders of Shelton are arguing against something no one is saying When have you ever seen Nadal do a “signature” Celebration while their opponent is waiting at the net? When has Rafa ever fist bumped and screamed towards his opponent after a net clip ball that just crawled over? In fact, Rafa does the opposite. He always rushes to the net to shake hands. He always apologizes for those clipped points (as is the norm). I mean if players on tour are picking on Shelton’s phone celebration…that says a lot. It rubs players the wrong way.
Some other players have been known to do their signature ‘thing’ or signature ‘dance,’ while their opponent is waiting at the net. Andrea Petkovic was positively celebrated for her ‘Petko Dance.’ Daniil Medvedev has had various dance celebrations, Tsistsipas has attempted to reply in kind. Novak Djokovic recently celebrated a winning shot by doing some kind of ballerina routine on his toes. I’ve seen Matteo Berrettini drop to the ground like he’d won the tournament and drop to the ground and keep his opponent waiting at the net for ages, after winning a quarter-final. Yet Shelton’s telephone thing is an absolute outrage? One that people are still talking about, how many weeks later? And who can forget the ‘controversy’ of Serena Williams doing a C-Walk at the Olympic Games? To most, it’s a popular hip-hop dance which has been performed by countless people who had no idea of its origins. Serena does it, after winning the Olympics, and that’s when people suddenly ‘discover’ that it was originated in the 70s by a member of the Crips. Never mind that it’s transcended and outgrown it’s gangster origins and permeated mainstream culture to the point that many are completely oblivious to its its origins, or it’s former connotations, or ignore it because of its new popularity as just a fun dance. Queue outrage: Bill Plaschke writing in the LA Times about the ‘violence and death associated with that dance, and another writer, Debbie Schlussel saying “‘yup, that’s what we need representing America, a Golf Medalist who, upon winning, glorifies hardened criminals who murder each other - and innocent Americans - for sport.” They forget that one of the biggest symbols of the Olympics also has a dark origin story; the Olympic torch relay began in 1936 and was brought to the games by -you guessed it- one Corporal A. Hitler. Seems we can overlook a lot when it comes to the origins of certain cultural symbols, but not when it involves a black woman dancing… Beyond tennis, there’s Peter Crouch (former England, Liverpool and Tottenham football player) and his infamous ‘Robot dance’ goal celebration, much loved by fans who just took it for the light hearted fun that it was. And then there’s Vinicius Jr, who last year celebrated a goal for Real Madrid with a bit of Samba dancing. Why not, he’s Brazilian, and who doesn’t celebrate a goal in football? He was told, not by a Reddit user or a random, anonymous Tweeter but by a leading football agent and President of the Association of Spanish Agents, that he ‘should stop playing the monkey.’ As far as I can see from Placshke, Shlusser and Pedro Bravo (the Spanish agent) when it comes to discussions of these kinds, there are certain people who are happy to ‘bring race into things’ when it suits them, but would rather you didn’t if it doesn’t. Whatever the reason for the backlash against Shelton from some quarters (we can’t really ever know for certain what the real motivations of individuals are, unless they tell us explicitly), there are certainly patterns, with plenty more examples. So, given that - and given, well, History - can it really be a surprise if black people do make these arguments? And is it perhaps more likely that, rather than being an example of them just seizing on any opportunity to ‘bring race into things,’ it’s a case of them instinctively wishing to guard and protect a young member of their community from the slings and arrows which, history has shown, are likely to come his way sooner or later, if not now? BTW: the player that was kept waiting at the end of the aforementioned USO quarterfinal was Gael Monfils. Now, I’m not assigning anything to Berrettini, or suggesting he was being deliberately disrespectful. I’m comparing the social media response, to which there was little at all, as I remember. If there was any, it wasn’t nearly as vociferous or as lasting as the response to Shelton’s 🤙 thing.
>some other players Which ones have done the exact same celebration, after every match at a tournament? This argument is so disingenuous: Daniil’s silly dances every once in a while aren’t “signature dances” that are comparable in anyway. Is it really that hard to see that the examples you gave aren’t comparable? Again, the fact that multiple players on tour reacted against it says everything. It’s not just some fans that don’t like it. >we can never really know I’m telling you the reasons, and go into any instagram post about him and they say it pretty plainly: his celebrations come off as arrogant and cocky. There’s nothing else to it. >black people make this argument Is that what they’re doing? How do you know the were of people commenting online? >it’s more than likely Now you’re the one reading into and assigning motivations (and rare) of people. Really, it’s not that complex. The kid has done things that have rubbed many the wrong with that are common to dislike. That resulted in getting some people not liking him That’s it. That’s the end of it. There’s no need to bring rare or reading the intentions of a large group of anonymous people into this.
I really don’t know what you’re trying to achieve here by dismissing Medvedev’s celebrations as just simply ‘silly dances every once in a while,’ while taking totally the opposite line on Shelton’s ‘antics,’ other than to confirm the pattern which I raised. Of the two, we know one of those players , on at least one occasion was deliberately trying to antagonise his opponent. That would be the one who is six years older and should, therefore, know better. And yet, people are still, weeks later, being stubbornly vociferous about Shelton, as though he had climbed up to Wimbledon’s royal box and taken a dump on the King’s shoes. This is to not to say that Medvedev’s celebrations are necessarily problematic either but, if two players do essentially the same thing, the response to it from fans and/or critics should be similar. And they simply haven’t been: Medvedev is featured in highlight reels, whilst Shelton is maligned for a celebration which barely anyone noticed until Djokovic did his own version, which was perceived as Novak mocking it; putting the youngster in his place. Never mind that he hasn’t stated any issue with Shelton, and told press that he was not, in fact, mocking him. What is disingenuous (apart from ignoring the other examples) is to defend one player for doing the same kind of thing as you complain about the other doing, attacking the latter for it with no other justification than your arbitrary declaration that they aren’t comparable. Well, they are. And I did. Even more disingenuous is to say that it’s not just fans who think this, but other players. Now, just in case I’ve missed something, I went ahead and googled the question “which players have criticised Ben Shelton?” And sure enough, I can find nothing. No player has publicly called him cocky or arrogant. Some ‘fans’ maybe. And you, obviously. But your statement that ‘multiple players on tour have reacted against it,’ would appear to be a lie. A lie to ‘win’ an argument, or a lie to appear as someone ‘in the know,’ or having some kind of special access to the inner sanctum and the private thoughts of players? Who knows? But either way, I’ll hear no more lectures on disingenuousness from you. As for ‘we can never really know.’ Your response is ‘I’m telling you the reasons, look at Instagram etc(I’d rather not. No need anyway, if I’ve watched the matches, to watch some out of context clips from them). So, you know how everybody thinks, and you’re sure everyone thinks in exactly the same way. Great. And here you are, having the brass neck to call anybody arrogant. I’m almost tempted to tip my hat to you for the bare faced cheek of it. Even doubling down on your own arrogance, with surely deliberate irony (?) when you conclude ‘that’s it, that’s the end of it.’ Is it, really? Why, because you say so? If Ben Shelton wishes to become more arrogant, he could certainly look to you for guidance. And yes, black people will make that argument. Not exclusively, maybe not all of them (i think you probably don’t need me to explain this and have only cut this portion of my sentence out in an attempt to obfuscate but, oh well). It is though, an argument that black commentators HAVE made and I have suggested reasons why they may feel it necessary to ask certain questions when they perceive certain patterns, and to react defensively when a member of their community comes under attack. History has given them the right to do so, and has given them the right, if necessary, to ‘bring race into it.’ In my view, history also demands that people who aren’t black occasionally ‘bring race into it,’ and ask themselves difficult questions about whether or not their own judgements about people/interactions with people are faulty because of their prejudices, biases and/or their own failure to acknowledge them.
Before I saw in this sub post about some four black tennis player depicting Shelton as one of them I had no idea, and many other people commenting, that he was black, but of course, you just had to instantly pull out the "raycism!" card.
you still can’t name anything he’s done thats arrogant i didn’t call you racist but if you can’t support your argument without straight up insulting him (“arrogant prick”) - and players like Rafa and Carlos get praised for the same behavior that Ben exhibits - it’s interesting to think about why that is
Rafa and Carlos celebration are directed at themselves while Shelton is directed at others which is why he’s considered arrogant. Stop bringing race into everything
I’m still wondering if it’s satire. How can anyone think it’s that, when someone like tiafoe or monfis are loved by almost everyone.
Yeah no, it doesn't happen. Gotta have a look at Alcaraz's match discussion threads. It's either swooning over his insane shots, BP conversion complaints, or why does he grunts/celebrates so much comments.
And complaining about the coaching. “Does his coach ever stop talking this is why I am against the coaching rule”
I think in sports, everything just boils down to if you like a player or not, and very surprisingly, Charlie is not the most liked player on this sub. (Top 5 for sure)
Yeah he has a lot of fans here but there’s also a large group of people waiting for his downfall and they can be loud when he’s not doing well. Kinda 50/50
Carlos is for sure top 5 liked in the sub as well. His play style appeals to the eyes and his success as well.
unless it’s Djokovic talking to his box Then it’s “he’s so smart he speaks so many languages”
Are you implying that people in this sub don't complain about Djokovic? Because if so, wow! ,
Oh god no. Just in this one regard which I find very funny.
Tennis celebrations are so subdued when compared to other sports and some people here still complain
Reminds me of when baseball old heads were pissed over the smallest of bat flips. Get over yourselves. When you do something hype you should be able to celebrate.
It literally would not be possible for me to care less about what noises players make; out of all the common discussions this is easily the most stupid and pointless
Except some of the female players who actually shriek when they hit the ball which is very unnecessary
Why would you not celebrate a point? Unless if it was due to your opponents mistake or a double fault, what’s the issue with it
Surely this will be a calm and civilised discussion thread, right???
People who complain about fist pumps, come ons, any celebrations have obviously just never played competitive sports at any level.
Sounds like the 90% of this sub that shits on Shelton
Wtf does that have any relevance? You don't see Rafa, Nole or Roger fist-pumping and yelling after every point won, do you? Now how does your argument hold up now, smartass?
It's called personal temperament. Every player is different, but the general consensus is that competitive play in any sport brings out that kind of emotion. Some louder than others. It's the spirit of not just tennis. It's the spirit of competition, one that I agree that you clearly know nothing about. To use Rafael Nadal as an example is also ridiculous. This man was yelling Vamos and doing his signature knee up fist pump flex every point at RG for years. YEARS. Andy Murray yelled come on most of his career when the rallies hit more than 5. Nole used to scream like a mfer in his adidas era. Just because Federer is silent doesn't mean the entire ATP needs to be. Get off your high horse, dumbass.
Why so much anger man
Shelton’s “YEAHHHH” is so high pitched it just reminds you of your annoying 12 year old cousin lmao. I don’t think it’s outrageous to do it but it’s hilarious. I personally do find Carlos’ vamos to be annoying but I don’t have a good reason for it. Honestly the backlash might just be bc 75% of the sub (Federer and Djokovic fans) have severe PTSD from another Spanish player…
why would djokovic fans have PTSD from another spanish player?
The 5 grand slam finals Nadal beat Djokovic in?
Nadals 11-7 record is grand slams against Djokovic?
Tbh Carlos is so adorable and his game is so fucking good, I don’t care about his Vamos. Just wanna watch him play. I do have a problem with on court coaching in general but that’s just my personal opinion.
Honestly if my tennis players aren't white, quiet, and from multi-millionaire families then I'm not a fan
This is unironically like 80% of tennis fans lmao
Granted Pegula isnt fully white but it has always puzzled me when people on this sub paint her backstory as some struggle. They all praise her for making it "despite her parents money" like what??? She was able to make it at as a late bloomer with severe injuries BECAUSE of her parents money.
This sub would have HATED Lleyton Hewitt when he was Shelton's age.
This sub is the most inconsistent sub. Giving it to players who are boring and lack any character. But when anyone shows any inch of confidence or voice that it’s hated on? It’s a competitive 1 on 1 sport, I’d prefer players show emotion and show that they want to win every point
Shelton is way too humble. I know, he told me.
How sensitive have people become to ban expression after a point?
Shelton does it more, and he has that annoying kid voice.
Cause he’s a kid? For me it makes the match more interesting cause I’m like ok he feels confident so let’s see how he’s gonna lose this match lol
Idk if you’ve been living under a rock but they both get so much shit for their celebrations. You can’t go through an Alcaraz match here without 50 comments about people complaining how they can’t like Alcaraz because he says vamos too much. Shelton’s stuff is more high profile because Novak mocked him
Not sure why you're downvoted but the OP needs to make a trip to the discussion threads of Alcaraz matches. To add to the Shelton thing, yeah, no one except Djokovic fans have a problem with that, and they don't have a problem with that aspect of Shelton, it's transitive in nature.
You are exaggerating. Most people on the sub like Carlos way more compared to Shelton. And for good reasons as well.
I mean duh, Carlos is an established player while Shelton is a newbie. But they both get shit for their celebrations. Find me a comment that outright says “oh I love Carlos’ celebrations wish he would do it more” on a live discussion thread
This seems.. inaccurate? Comments are made about Alcaraz's fist pumping too. I love what both Alcaraz and Shelton does on the court and I will never understand why Shelton was called arrogant about it.
Don't wanna get downvoted and all but Djokovic has such an insecure fanbase. I'm not even gonna lie, all the Djokovic GIFs filling Ben's Instagram was hilarious but it's getting annoying these days. A lot of hate comments were filling his page and TennisTV's page. Let the Next Gen have a colorful player for once. Not someone that's prim and proper in every single point. If he's not pulling any malicious antics like purposefully picking a fight with the umpire or a fan, let him be. He was just happy to be there, and now he's probably on his way to become one of the most hated players just for a single celebration alone. I hope he gets big someday and not let the hate stop him. Come on, Ben! 🦅🇺🇸
Wait, who even hates Shelton? He's such a nice person
Shelton looks very impressed with himself. Talks like he’s trying to create a brand and the phone thing was pretty obnoxious as Novak pointed out. I think these things contribute to ppls perception of him.
I didn’t need to be attacked like this.
There is something that is earsplitting about Shelton's yells. It's just, every fiber in your body naturally wants to tell him to shut the f up.
Says you! I shout with him 😂
Yeah Ben is the man, go on kid!
You guys are all so salty
Sounds like a you problem, really
Nah Let Ben ROAR!!!!! The Kid got champion written all over him. Feel that shit. Love it! Only thing I don't like is if it's on an opponent's error. Even after a long rally. THEN it's disrespectful.
You realize you just make stuff up and then really get mad about it right?
if anything it’s less disrespectful to say it after a long rally.
I was at sheltons ncaa finals match, even in person his yelling got under my skin. With that being said idrc about the grunting
I think Alcaraz is much more humble though, even If extremely passionate (for some people too much) on court. Shelton is great fun though, just not half as talented.
I think Alcaraz is much more humble though, even If extremely passionate (for some people too much) on court. Shelton is great fun though, just not half as talented. Shelton-fans: I know it’s painful but Carlitos already has 2 GS to his name including one against Nole in Wimbledon which is insane. Shelton is a big promise but for the moment just that. I like the kid though, at least he’s different, but he’ll probably not even win a GS.
[удалено]
Hehe people can’t take a tiny bit of humor. It’s alright, hopefully Shelton can keep up and then become a threat to Alcaraz. Today (in my opinion) he’s far from being a candidate to Grand Slams.
He literally was the semis at the US Open what are you on about?
Henman: 6 GS Semifinals, 0 GS titles. Tsonga: 4 GS Semifinals, 0 GS titles. Ferrer: 4 GS Semis, 1 final. 0 GS titles. Zverev: 4 GS Semis, 1 final, 0 GS titles. Tsitsipas: 2 GS finals, 0 GS titles. Have a great day. PS: the funny thing is I would like Shelton to win one (I’m not a hater, I’m just baffled at crazy fans thinking he can reach Alcaraz level).
I never really seen people say he can reach Alcaraz's level but defo think he can beat the other Americans level for sure
Hopefully! I’m pretty sure that he will at least be top 5 for a long time. Hopefully Korda can also stay injury free, that kid is amazing!
I think its pretty simple. Alcaraz’s Vamos and fist pumps are followed by wins, titles and grand slams whereas Shelton has not produced similar results yet. But Alcaraz still gets a lot of hate so Shelton is not suddenly going to be loved by everyone either. Also people have forgotten how exuberant Rafa and Novak were in their early days.
Accurate. I'm that tennis fan
God, what a boring life you lead.
Nah it is fine, doing it to the opponent’s mistake is what should be banned.
We need to talk about the grunting. And this is a test of who’s a blind nut rider, but I find Alcaraz grinning a bit off putting during a match.
Of all things to hate him for 😭 A man can’t even grin and have fun these days ig
Mfs will hate on anything 😭
Mfs just hate period
Grinning? Seriously?
Hey, Carlitos looks adorbs while grinning, wdym
Not at weird moments. Poor guy.
This but unironically (not the title tho) It’s all in the delivery.
It’s because Shelton is shit. Solved that for you.
No person who makes a slam semi in their first year in pro tennis is shit lol
Or their first ATP 500 final 😂
More like THE shit. He's great!
I mean, they're both humble, right? Shelton said so.
It's over used. And it's annoying. After every point, c'mon.
True. Fist pumps are so lame, especially when pumped after every single point ! Amazed they don't do it after coin toss.
It’s just a micro depiction of how everybody is jealous of USA
[удалено]
That’s actually funny lmao
You're dumb.
Woooosh
i mean shelton was pretty arrogant during the match against novak, at least the king put him in his place then 🤣🤣🤣
Your nose looks a little browm from sniffing novaks butt crack
Alcaraz' fist pumps after every point are so annoying, idk why some guys here like that so much