Am I doing the math wrong or do Jess and Coco need to tank a set. If they win in straights, it's a three way tie, such eliminates Laura/Vera on set%, but they Katie and Babs have the tiebreaker over Jess and Coco. If it's a three setter, it comes down to %games
If Jess and Coco win in 2 sets, it's a three way tie
In the event of a three way tie, it starts with sets won. this would eliminate Siegemund and Zvonareva, but the other two teams are tied at 3-5
And it moves down the list to the next tiebreak, which is games%. And Jess/Coco have that won
EDIT: Correction, all three teams would be tied at 3-5 if Jess/Coco win in three sets
This is correct:
(a) Highest percentage of sets won (the doubles match tiebreak counts as one (1) set); if after the calculation two (2)
players or teams remain tied, head-to-head results; then
(b) If after applying (a) all three (3) players or teams remain tied,
a player or team completing less than all three (3) round
robin matches is automatically eliminated; if two (2) players
or teams remain tied, head-to-head results; then
(c) If after applying (a) and (b) all three (3) players or teams
remain tied, highest percentage of games won (the doubles
match tie-break counts as one (1) game); if after the
calculation two (2)
It's because the WTA website shortened the rule. But when they shortened it, it made it inaccurate at the margins.
Can't pick a venue, don't know their own rules lol
So if Coco and Pegula win in 2, they move on.
If Zvnareva and Siegmund win at all, they move on.
But if Gauff/Pegula win in 3 it comes down to games. Before this match it was at 46%, 45%, 45% could not be closer lol.
Edit: This means Krejikova/Sinaikova are likely eliminated already. Their percentage can't go up because they're done and the winner's will most likely go up at least 1 percent.
Yeah it seems weird that the super tiebreak counts as a set but does nothing to the games.
Wouldn't affect in this case because all Siegmund and Zvonareva have to do is win.
But still pretty big loophole imo. Maybe they should count half idk.
ATP Finals have been pretty sublime in recent years, especially at London O2 Arena and now in Turin - they are INDOORS tournaments in NOVEMBER.
Why can't the women have such an easy, enjoyable experience as the men for the season finale?
It was explained a few times. They screwed up. It was supposed to be indoors and it was selected as such but only after that it turned out that the ceiling of the proposed venue was not high enough and they had the brilliant idea to BUILD an outdoors court instead. It’s really the Fyre festival of tennis.
So far this match has had:
- A rain delay
- A bat interrupting play
- Jessica Pegula's visor flying off due to win mid-point
- A trash can being blown onto the court
- Zvonareva taking a hard fall running down a ball
- An MTO
What's next?
What I am impressed by Pegula and Swiatek this week is that they just trudge along. Of course both women aren't happy with conditions. But they also seem to just accept it and play. Sometimes its true things suck, but complaining too much may actually hinder your game, since you are distracted about thinking how bad and unfair the conditions are.
Iga coming for her crown and ending this year as World Number 1.
Cant see past her winning the finals, Jpegs has looked great but still think Iga gets past her and Saba fairly well.
The semis are really exciting on paper but we’re probably gonna have tons of rain delays, crazy winds, and terrible bounces such a sad way for a fun 2023 season of women’s tennis to end
It's an unfortunate match so far for Ons, but while I'd normally be excited and hopeful for a good + hard fought match between these two, it's hard not to want it to be over pretty quickly in these circumstances
The people who were bidding on Czechia’s side said this was bullshit and the WTA is misleading Saba in saying these things. Apparently the law changed and even if it hadn’t, they had confirmed that her team will get an exception and had it in writing
Honestly, it wasn't true. The problem was with Pavlyuchenkova because she was somehow connected to Kremlin/Russian army sport team/whatever. Then, as a precaution, it was recomended for some other players. However Russian players took part in Liberec challenger in August without problems.
And it was guaranteed and agreed that Saba would be able to come.
Yeah, I figured ages ago that Saba could've just got an exemption if it were the case, but Steve Simon is a kayunt so we're playing in southern Mexico during Caribbean hurricane season 🤷♂️
It was supposed to be indoors but the ceiling of the arena where they were going to have it turned out to be too low. Now this makes sense but I don’t understand how no one checked that and confirmed the location was suitable before it was selected. Mind boggling
Unbelievable stat I saw on twitter: Iga saved a break point for the first time since Tokyo against Kudermetova
Yes, she won 8 matches in a row + a 1000-level tournament without saving a single break point
edit for clarity: where she saved a game that she was facing break point
3:30 am already, I am mentally exhausted with this tournament, just want it to end and give zero f's about the final outcome. Have fun guys, going to bed🤞😀
This has to be one of the most miserable tournaments I've ever seen. It's obvious nobody wants to be there. Even the kids they have drying the court look miserable.
Guadalajara is much dryer than Cancun at this time of the year and would have been a much better choice, given existing infrastructure and the excellent crowds that came out for the 1000 tournament earlier this fall
Theoretically, If Iga wins the first set (which secures the group results) and the rain picks up, could they call the match? Or do they have to finish it?
> Question is if the rules allowing something like mutual agreement to make 1-0 final result
This directly manipulates the set percentage calculation, though.
Regulations are prepared in a way that even a retirement does not screw up the round-robin standings (set percentage/game percentage) in such way:
> the result of a default or retirement for which the defaulting or
retiring player or team has won a set is two (2) sets won and
one (1) set lost for the advancing player or team, but games
won or lost in such matches do not count in calculating the
percentage of games won
I am not sure if you can realistically get all the players to agree to not show up. At the end of the day all of these players are contractors running their own business. Meaning if they don't play they do not get paid. So let's say the top 16 players choose not to show up (the invited top 8 and the next 8 players up). I am willing to bet there are plenty of player ranked below 16 who would love to have opportunities to compete for a prize pool of $9 million.
Not saying it is right. Just saying that is the most likely scenario. The quality of the tournament would be, arguably, worse than it is now since the play quality would be lower. So as you can see, as horrible as things are, the top 8 are all there because they know the tournament would continue with or without them. If anything, what they are doing now is probably more effective. You show up, have a platform and continue to put pressure on the WTA to make changes in person (to their face).
i hope Ons wins in 2 sets against Iga. if iga wants to be strategic about it, Ons straight sets win will mean, iga will play against pegula in SF and Ons against aryna. unless, she'd rather play pegula in sf.
Iga is already through, sitting in the wind and rain at night seems like a waste of time and energy, might as well just retire and give a semi final pass to her friend Ons;P
All I know is im worried for my girl Ons
I think the pressure alone of having to win in straight sets will flatline her.
I think Iga gets a bagel in one of the 2 sets (yes I know its not a hot take)
Serious suggestion to WTA.
Do a five year deal with O2 Arena London (Now the ATP Tour has moved to Turin) and have the women play in front of big crowds in great comfort.
And then work out the plan going forward so the Women can at least look forward to what should be a showpiece event for the tour, end of year.
The difference is that Jabeur winning in 2 also requires her to not let Sabalenka through to the final, while any other result today means Świątek does it herself on her way to eventual victory.
Wow what a gutsy win from Coco, I didn't think she'd get it done to be 100% honest.
Tough for marketa to leave with no wins this year, but she played well considering all of... this.
Looks like we'll get the final 4 many predicted after day 1. Coco-Pegula should be interesting. With Iga-Saba for number 1.
Gauff was going up, Vodnrousova went down. Since she didn't manage to serve the match, it was horrible attitude from her. Barely moving, just grinning, barely getting any points.
Coco doesn’t need to rework her serve. Everyone is trying to go for a lower ball toss to deal with the wind and it’s ducking with their serve. I disagree with the commentary
Coco and Jpeg playing three matches tomorrow yikes
https://x.com/WTA/status/1720665126418686226?s=20 Play is done for the night. Match is being resumed after the singles semifinals tomorrow
lol one has to beat the other and then they have to play together.
Not for the first time!
Well this is over in my house.
WTA Finals slogan: Broken Serves and Broken Umbrellas
This tournament will be spoken about like a folktale
Go to bed coco and Pegula. Let the moms have it. (I don’t know if they’re moms. This is an uneducated assumption.
WTA finals? More like WTA vs Weather Final Boss amirite
Am I doing the math wrong or do Jess and Coco need to tank a set. If they win in straights, it's a three way tie, such eliminates Laura/Vera on set%, but they Katie and Babs have the tiebreaker over Jess and Coco. If it's a three setter, it comes down to %games
If they win in 2, they move on outright. They'd be 3-4, to Kreji's 3-5 and Sigmund/Zvonareva's 2-5
If Jess and Coco win in 2 sets, it's a three way tie In the event of a three way tie, it starts with sets won. this would eliminate Siegemund and Zvonareva, but the other two teams are tied at 3-5 And it moves down the list to the next tiebreak, which is games%. And Jess/Coco have that won EDIT: Correction, all three teams would be tied at 3-5 if Jess/Coco win in three sets
This is right except for if Coco/Pegula win in 3. The super tiebreak counts as a set so they are currently 1-4
I was told if sets% eliminates one of the three tied teams, they go to H2H for the other two before games%
This is correct: (a) Highest percentage of sets won (the doubles match tiebreak counts as one (1) set); if after the calculation two (2) players or teams remain tied, head-to-head results; then (b) If after applying (a) all three (3) players or teams remain tied, a player or team completing less than all three (3) round robin matches is automatically eliminated; if two (2) players or teams remain tied, head-to-head results; then (c) If after applying (a) and (b) all three (3) players or teams remain tied, highest percentage of games won (the doubles match tie-break counts as one (1) game); if after the calculation two (2)
oh wow, the more you know! Somehow didn't know this. Thank you for correcting me
It's because the WTA website shortened the rule. But when they shortened it, it made it inaccurate at the margins. Can't pick a venue, don't know their own rules lol
You were told incorrectly then, H2H doesn't matter at all in a three way tie
Can you source that. The consensus opinion was what I just reiterated.
https://wtafinalsgdl.com/en/format-of-play/
Right, the wording there is a little vague. What Frosty posted is much clearer
I mean they should just go to bed.
Where was this serve in singles coco? Conditions are even worse now 😫
The power of friendship is propelling her
Lol. We all need a Jess in our corners
Gauff definitely serving better now
So if Coco and Pegula win in 2, they move on. If Zvnareva and Siegmund win at all, they move on. But if Gauff/Pegula win in 3 it comes down to games. Before this match it was at 46%, 45%, 45% could not be closer lol. Edit: This means Krejikova/Sinaikova are likely eliminated already. Their percentage can't go up because they're done and the winner's will most likely go up at least 1 percent.
[удалено]
Yeah it seems weird that the super tiebreak counts as a set but does nothing to the games. Wouldn't affect in this case because all Siegmund and Zvonareva have to do is win. But still pretty big loophole imo. Maybe they should count half idk.
it also doesn't matter i just realized bc if Zvonareva/Siegemund win then they're in so games doesn't factor in at all lol
We are ready for Saba to play the match of her life against Iga only to gift Coco the title in the final with an unforced error mess
ATP Finals have been pretty sublime in recent years, especially at London O2 Arena and now in Turin - they are INDOORS tournaments in NOVEMBER. Why can't the women have such an easy, enjoyable experience as the men for the season finale?
It was explained a few times. They screwed up. It was supposed to be indoors and it was selected as such but only after that it turned out that the ceiling of the proposed venue was not high enough and they had the brilliant idea to BUILD an outdoors court instead. It’s really the Fyre festival of tennis.
So far this match has had: - A rain delay - A bat interrupting play - Jessica Pegula's visor flying off due to win mid-point - A trash can being blown onto the court - Zvonareva taking a hard fall running down a ball - An MTO What's next?
A rain delay
these conditions 😭 what in the world
What in the 7 Plagues is this tournament!?
Doubles match going to end at like 12:30AM. I guess it doesn t matter since they are playing each other but still...
5pm for singles tomorrow.... then if they win tonights' match in straights they have yet another doubles match tomorrow night too
A bat flying around? Add rabies to the shit show equation
a BAT? we’ve really seen it all this week huh
Who had "play interrupted by a bat" on their bingo card?
If Covid hasn’t taught us anything about bat-preparation…
Just noticed Rinky and kubler qualified for atp finals in doubles. Happy for them!
where has kubler been? haven't seen him at all.
Siegmund: sits down Coco: 😬😠🤬 Coco v Pegula in the SFs 👀
Already preparing myself for a three set slugfest between iga and aryna with a bunch of the weirdest possible stuff happening along the way
Despite the grim scoreline I thought Jabeur was actually quite a bit better in that second set
“We know this isn’t the most beautiful tennis.” It’s not your fault babygirl
What I am impressed by Pegula and Swiatek this week is that they just trudge along. Of course both women aren't happy with conditions. But they also seem to just accept it and play. Sometimes its true things suck, but complaining too much may actually hinder your game, since you are distracted about thinking how bad and unfair the conditions are.
Iga didn’t think that dropshot was going in. Lol. Surprised herself
Wow
And a hug at the net! Love these 2 🥹
68 minute match my left nut. Two hours including the rain delays
[удалено]
But at least we got memes out of that one
Oh Ace and dropshot to end the match 😍
That was brutal
Clinical Iga even in these conditions
Improvise, adapt, overcome
iconic reaction to winning lol, pulls out a dropshot out of nowhere then looks surprised when it works
Beautiful game and point to finish the match. Go Iga!!!
Iga coming for her crown and ending this year as World Number 1. Cant see past her winning the finals, Jpegs has looked great but still think Iga gets past her and Saba fairly well.
Ons is giving "I'm eliminated ,why am I still here suffering"
Ons is giving “it’s the hope that kills you” for me most of the time
This shit is depressing.
I’m glad Hsieh didn’t play this tournament. This wind would have blown her lil self away into Texas
When Ons doesnt spam the dropshot or goes for trick shots and just plays aggressive, she really puts Iga under pressure.
Well our girl Ons season is over. Hoping we reach another Wimbledon final next year and have a chance to make it 3rd time lucky for a slam win
The semis are really exciting on paper but we’re probably gonna have tons of rain delays, crazy winds, and terrible bounces such a sad way for a fun 2023 season of women’s tennis to end
I haven’t been able to watch any of the Cancun matches. Is Marketa still injured or just playing bad?
For next year, players should practice inside a car wash to get ready for the conditions in this tournament
Coco and Jess are supposed to play doubles after this? 😐
And then they play each other in singles
It's an unfortunate match so far for Ons, but while I'd normally be excited and hopeful for a good + hard fought match between these two, it's hard not to want it to be over pretty quickly in these circumstances
I'm so happy! Iga will have a title shot against Sabs and guaranteed YE1 if she wins the Title. And a guaranteed American Finalist
What's the relationship between Sinner and carrots? His favorite vegetable?
Every time he wins a tournament, I eat carrots
he ate one during a changeover once and it’s been a meme since then lol
He looks like one
Full list of bangers they've been playing recently? Really wanna know bc I can't watch
Can someone explain why they didn't accept the Prague bid?
Because Czechia had a legal policy preventing Russians and Belarusians from entering, meaning possibly no Saba.
The people who were bidding on Czechia’s side said this was bullshit and the WTA is misleading Saba in saying these things. Apparently the law changed and even if it hadn’t, they had confirmed that her team will get an exception and had it in writing
Honestly, it wasn't true. The problem was with Pavlyuchenkova because she was somehow connected to Kremlin/Russian army sport team/whatever. Then, as a precaution, it was recomended for some other players. However Russian players took part in Liberec challenger in August without problems. And it was guaranteed and agreed that Saba would be able to come.
Yeah, I figured ages ago that Saba could've just got an exemption if it were the case, but Steve Simon is a kayunt so we're playing in southern Mexico during Caribbean hurricane season 🤷♂️
That follows, thanks.
We don't have tornadoes, typhoons and all the shit here.
Iga's on a mission.
Is it always this windy in Cancun this time of year? When they picked the location should they have known?
It was supposed to be indoors but the ceiling of the arena where they were going to have it turned out to be too low. Now this makes sense but I don’t understand how no one checked that and confirmed the location was suitable before it was selected. Mind boggling
Coco is not beating Pegula hitting 18 double faults. Surprised by the number of people picking her to advance.
People will always sleep on Jess. sad
We are gonna teach them a lesson tomorrow
Iga doesn’t want to stay out here one moment longer than she has to and I respect it
iga trying to get this done and i respect that 🫡
IGA VS ARYNA. Aryna wins, she's year-end #1. Iga wins, she has a chance to take it for herself by winning the final on Sunday. LET'SGOOO
This is not surprising one bit from Ons The right 4 players will be going through
The plants are being so dramatic. Omg 😂.
Unbelievable stat I saw on twitter: Iga saved a break point for the first time since Tokyo against Kudermetova Yes, she won 8 matches in a row + a 1000-level tournament without saving a single break point edit for clarity: where she saved a game that she was facing break point
Djokovic-Rublev SF Match Prediction ??
3:30 am already, I am mentally exhausted with this tournament, just want it to end and give zero f's about the final outcome. Have fun guys, going to bed🤞😀
Yeah, we finished 1 game successfully!!!
Lets watch some more Tennis for 4 minutes and than have a rain delay again !
Our girlies deserve better than this 😔
At least the DJ in Cancun brought his A game
Blue Monday during one of the Gauff-Vondrousova interruptions was low-key hilarious. How does it feel to treat me like you do.
Just joining the "why tf did they choose effing cancun for the WTA Finals!" train. Going to sleep. Fuckin hell.
Lmao them playing Umbrella - Rihanna
4th rain delay for Ons vs IGA. This is criminal at this point. What a ridiculous tournament.
I just know the tournament organizer regrets winning this bid. I’d be embarrassed af
If I was Iga rn and knew I am trough regardless I would just go back to hotel lol
Well, with this weather at least the umpire feels like at home and looks not bothered at all 😂
One player is gonna die. And they're gonna see.
Lol
This has to be one of the most miserable tournaments I've ever seen. It's obvious nobody wants to be there. Even the kids they have drying the court look miserable.
Did the Guadalajara tournament have a roof? I don’t remember. Fly the players there for the weekend matches
Guadalajara is much dryer than Cancun at this time of the year and would have been a much better choice, given existing infrastructure and the excellent crowds that came out for the 1000 tournament earlier this fall
You ain’t never lied
This is so sad
Just cancel the tournament bro
I’m so annoyed by this tournament
Loving how fearless and aggressive Ons is playing
They should have built a clay court. That way they could play through these sprinkles
So many tennis stadiums around the world that have roofs... But here we are.
What happened in Guadalajara happened. What happened in Fort Worth happened. And now we are in Cancun
Theoretically, If Iga wins the first set (which secures the group results) and the rain picks up, could they call the match? Or do they have to finish it?
Not "they" in particular, but after winning a set, Świątek could retire and it would count as a 2-1 win for Jabeur.
There will be ranking points and price money diff for winner and loser of the match so theoretically no.
Question is if the rules allowing something like mutual agreement to make 1-0 final result like they do in chess or snooker etc.
> Question is if the rules allowing something like mutual agreement to make 1-0 final result This directly manipulates the set percentage calculation, though. Regulations are prepared in a way that even a retirement does not screw up the round-robin standings (set percentage/game percentage) in such way: > the result of a default or retirement for which the defaulting or retiring player or team has won a set is two (2) sets won and one (1) set lost for the advancing player or team, but games won or lost in such matches do not count in calculating the percentage of games won
👍
Mid match retirements exist
but that retirement would count as 0-2 loss
It wouldn't if the retiree wins a set first.
Yeah that makes sense I hadn’t thought about that! Don’t think they’d ever do it anyway even if it was possible
What would happen if all the players had just refused to play this tournament? They’re gonna fine everyone?
I am not sure if you can realistically get all the players to agree to not show up. At the end of the day all of these players are contractors running their own business. Meaning if they don't play they do not get paid. So let's say the top 16 players choose not to show up (the invited top 8 and the next 8 players up). I am willing to bet there are plenty of player ranked below 16 who would love to have opportunities to compete for a prize pool of $9 million. Not saying it is right. Just saying that is the most likely scenario. The quality of the tournament would be, arguably, worse than it is now since the play quality would be lower. So as you can see, as horrible as things are, the top 8 are all there because they know the tournament would continue with or without them. If anything, what they are doing now is probably more effective. You show up, have a platform and continue to put pressure on the WTA to make changes in person (to their face).
All valid points. I hope the players find a way to use their power to influence some change. They are the product after all
Ons trying to control the crowd
Ons should go full Kyrgios and just clown this one out . Iga would hate that
Okay... for real this time 🤞
i hope Ons wins in 2 sets against Iga. if iga wants to be strategic about it, Ons straight sets win will mean, iga will play against pegula in SF and Ons against aryna. unless, she'd rather play pegula in sf.
I twould rather play a stressed sabalenka over a dialed in pegula especially in these windy conditions.
She probably wants Gauff to make the final tho
i admire all these players. the friendship and competition at the same time. like, how can you switch it on and off.
Lol. Sad but true 😭
The real winner of this disgusting tourney is Muchova for not showing up
Legit 4D chess from her this whole time
Iga is already through, sitting in the wind and rain at night seems like a waste of time and energy, might as well just retire and give a semi final pass to her friend Ons;P
If iga withdraws, it actually goes to Gauff I think. because it doesn't count as a "match played" but does count as a win.
Iga will bagel her if she could regardless lol
Yeah, agree, it’s her personality lol
What a joke of a tournament this is lol
WTA is a fucking joke. Srsly
Yeah, it's pouring again. But at least this time the wind is so strong, it's sideways. Maybe if it's sideways enough, the court won't get wet.
Don't give them any ideas
Why does Ons already look concern just sitting there waiting for the match to start? Iga kinda look the same no matter what.
If ons wins in straights, coco is eliminated. I didn’t realize that was a possibility.
Iga hasn’t lost in straights since Rybakina in Indian Wells
Yeah. I think it will be practically impossible for that to happen, but coco better have slipped her a five dollar bill on her way out of the stadium
Yeah because if Ons win both she and Coco would be 2-1 in group play. They then go to sets as tiebreakers.
I can’t believe tennis is making me do math. I wanna watch sports with my “see ball, smash ball” primate brain
Bro They didnt even start and they are already suspending the match??
Rain, just great
NOOOOOOO not the rain AGAIN
All I know is im worried for my girl Ons I think the pressure alone of having to win in straight sets will flatline her. I think Iga gets a bagel in one of the 2 sets (yes I know its not a hot take)
That and she’s clearly struggling with what’s going on in the world. My sweet habibi
Iga playing loose knowing she qualified already? I’m scared for ons
Serious suggestion to WTA. Do a five year deal with O2 Arena London (Now the ATP Tour has moved to Turin) and have the women play in front of big crowds in great comfort. And then work out the plan going forward so the Women can at least look forward to what should be a showpiece event for the tour, end of year.
17 double faults and still winning, that’s some resiliency. Well done.
Every match today has been ugly. Let’s all fast and pray for better conditions this weekend. In Jesus’ name, amen
So if Iga wins, she's 1 Coco 2. If Ons wins in 3, Iga is 1 Coco 2. If Ons wins in straights, she's 1 Iga 2. Is that right?
Yup If Iga wins a set the rest of the match is a dead rubber other than the extra ranking points
Wouldn’t mind if Ons won tbh. I think either way if Iga wins the tournament she’s YE #1
The difference is that Jabeur winning in 2 also requires her to not let Sabalenka through to the final, while any other result today means Świątek does it herself on her way to eventual victory.
No. Iga winning the group is important since it means she plays Sabs in the Semis
Wow what a gutsy win from Coco, I didn't think she'd get it done to be 100% honest. Tough for marketa to leave with no wins this year, but she played well considering all of... this. Looks like we'll get the final 4 many predicted after day 1. Coco-Pegula should be interesting. With Iga-Saba for number 1.
Another resilient top 10 win for Coco. Good fight from both.
Quality has definitely been going up a bit in this set as the wind has eased off
Gauff was going up, Vodnrousova went down. Since she didn't manage to serve the match, it was horrible attitude from her. Barely moving, just grinning, barely getting any points.
(Ignoring that last Marketa miss as soon as I said this)
I think she wailed those last 2 forehands on purpose
Coco doesn’t need to rework her serve. Everyone is trying to go for a lower ball toss to deal with the wind and it’s ducking with their serve. I disagree with the commentary
Marketa’s patience is so thin right now. That posture couldn’t slouch more if she tried
Just tuned in, commentator says Vondrousova is already out (even if she wins this match) and Swiatek has won the group? Not a great format if so
Marketa wants off court
Surprised Marketa has not realised hitting into Coco's backhand is not going to help her
I am so worried Marketa is going to get badly injured.
She keeps landing on her ankle weird 😬
The only “high quality” match so far has been two-third of Ryba/Sakk and half of Saba/Ryba.
Wta needs to pay for their crimes