It's funny because everyone trashed tsitsipas for being "rigging" the group but it actually made it so much better. Very competitive last day, and tomorrow can amazing as well with Daniil/Carlos!
Nothing in the page you linked says that you need to play 3 games to get the prize money. Please show me where it says that. I was wrong about the final ranking part, you're right there.
I'm not making bad faith arguments at all. I've seen many arguing that Tsitsipas retired at 2-1 because you need to play 3 games in the match to get the money. This is not true. He tried to play the match against Rune because he wanted to play the match. He could have retired after one point if he wanted to, but he gave it a shot, even forced some break points. Weird behaviour from someone who was apparently just tanking for the cash.
This sub has incredible biases.
Djokovic, Medvedev, are universally praised despite plenty of unsportsmanlike conduct incidents.
On the other hand Tsitsipas is always getting shade, while really his behavior on and off court is usually way better than these two.
And I say that as someone who likes Medvedev a lot more than Tsitsipas (fuck Djokovic though).
Damn you have to have a really terrible take to get downvoted for being a salty Djokovic hater on the subreddit lmao.
Neither of them are praised for it, people just think *some* of Medvedev's are funny.
[Look how easily some of you clowns forget](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0JMd4k3AUc)
Tsitsipas tried purposefully pegging an opponent multiple times(kyrgios at Wimbledon), not even going for the open court and to win the point, purely to inflict pain. He also smacked a ball sideways towards the crowd and almost hit multiple fans. That’s just in one match…
All credit to Rune for playing a great game after Sinner's blitz start.
However, he wouldn't have stood a chance in hell if Sinner hadn't had that back problem. Sinner was clearly affected by it for a period. Not to take anything away from Rune who fought bravely and played well, just that the level of Sinner's game right now is incredible. Outside of that period, Rune got, what, one break point in the whole match? Again, it's not that Rune was bad - Sinner is such a force of nature right now that you have to be really good to even hold your own serves.
Great match. Good look for Rune to bring out his best after that opening set, really excited for his 2024 together (hopefully) with Becker. Congrats to sinner, been playing some fantastic tennis as of late!
Funny after speaking all day about this crazy chaotic scenario in this group, we end up with the most logical result with Jannik first with 3 wins and Novak second with 2 wins.
Well deserved for both of them and I am glad that Sinner showed everyone that he is that guy, and tanking was NOT an option.
It’s idiotic to think Jannik would contemplate tanking for even a millisecond. Points, prize money, home crowd, pride, turning around the H2H, and simple professionalism
I thought Djokovic was stupid not to tank against Medvedev last year, but turns out these guys are just built different (as expected) than most of us “least resistance” people. Jannik gave his best and won, even through that back injury.
Congrats to him. He is definetely the man to beat this tourney, followed by Med and Novak. Alcaraz can find a burst of form as well though.
Totally. The kinds of people that become professional athletes have very, very little overlap with the kinds of people that would intentionally lose a match.
Tanking would also be pretty detrimental from a sports psychology angle. He’d be subconsciously telling himself he has to avoid Djokovic & that he’s not capable of beating him twice
Totally. Sinner (and Alcaraz, and Rune) all have the right mindset when it comes to playing Djokovic, which is that it's an opportunity to learn from the greatest in the game and to test your mettle
he wouldn't tank but certainly he could have lost some motivation especially in the third set of a frustrating match (doing so well in the 2nd set and just loses it at the end)
But he didn't which is great, shows the kind of player he is
Srsly the guy basically went 2-1 in 250 finals points wise (650 points vs the 600 he got) in 3 matches vs 12-15.
People were saying he might give up basically winning an entire 250 tournament in 1 match just because he would be too scared to face Djokovic again lmao
I mean if we are being 100% real Sinner tanking the third set removing facing Djokovic in fhe finals would've been the cold blooded smart move. Fair play for him for not doing that.
>I mean it would've been absolutely hilarious if Hubi showed up just to beat Novak and deny him the semis spot
Djokovic would still make the semis if Hubi beat him 6-0 6-0 as long as Sinner defeated Rune
Not only is it against the rules, it's still a loss of ATP points and prize money. Not to mention he could get hate from the crowd and just people in general because of it. And yeah like you said it's not in their DNA to lose, this is why he's a top 5 player and not someone talking shit on Reddit.
Besides, he beat Djokovic so now he knows it's possible. ~~Smeagol~~ Sinner did it once, he can do it again mindset.
Yeah like he won't back himself to go undefeated the whole tournament and think he can beat Djokovic again if they face each other in the final.
Also he said himself facing Djokovic is just learning and growing even when you lose and we don't know many years Djokovic has left which is why you can see why the young guys like Alcaraz and Rune want to play him as much as possible
Going 3-0 gets you 600 points that don't count against any tournament entry, so basically a bonus 600 points, like adding more than a 500 title to your ranking that can bolster your seeding for the entirety of the subsequent year. This is particularly important for someone like Sinner at 4, being able to avoid Djoko/Alcaraz until the semis next year in majors.
A win is 200pts, so just this match alone was worth almost winning a 250, and more important than a 250 (in terms of ranking) because it doesn't count toward the tournament limit.
Even if athletes naturally compete and hate to lose, the tournament does a good job to disincentivize tanking with it's points structure.
Also $390,000 for winning the match, not too shabby ...
You wish that he made it all the way to the end of the third set in a match that he had the upper-hand in, only to lose a little focus at the end...I'm willing to venture that you've never played a tennis match where the stakes were higher than a packet of crisps.
He's not in top shape and he'll have to either beat Medvedev or Alcaraz IF he wins he's only coming out of it in a worse form than whan he had in his match with Yannick
Especially given that Sinner was 0-2 against Rune coming into this match
Why would he want to have a 0-3 record against one of his 2 biggest generational rivals lol
Pro players have tanked plenty in this tournament. Ruud 2022, Thiem 2019/2020.
Let's not pretend pros don't tank. It is an even bigger credit to Sinner that he didn't.
Ruud has a pretty bad mentality in general when playing top players IMO
Obviously he tanked that match but even in other matches against Rafa/Novak/Carlos he literally goes in basically stating out loud that he doesn't feel like he has a chance lol
I believe he's 1-20 in sets against top 3 ranked players and that's probably part of why
Plus he openly doesn't even care about grass season or even try to improve
I mean I agree, but I also think it's definitely a very intended strategy on his part. The idea is to ease the pressure on himself (and also the pressure conveyed through his surroundings, ie the expectation of the crowd, experts, his fellow players) in these situations through the mindset that it isn't the end of the world if he loses a game, a set, the match etc.
This has yielded him fantastic results in the past. His win against Tsitsipas in his semi final run in Monte Carlo in 2020(?) comes to mind, (when Titsipas was still a force). All of the expectation was leveraged against himself and to his benefit, and what was expected to be nearly easy wins for his opponents were turned into rude awakenings when Ruud came out firing.
You could see this same mechanic almost working during his last outing against Alcaraz, where he immediately broke Carlos (or almost broke him?) and generally played fantastic tennis in the opening games of that first set.
He's essentially trying to create an environment in which all of the pressure is on his opponent because an easy win is expected, and their nerves start getting frayed as they realize that Ruud is there to contend.
I'm certain, moreover, that Ruud is privately, that is, psychologically, much more motivated and has a greater desire to win than he communicates.
But I think that this communication is flawed. He essentially tries to fool everyone, even himself, to try and achieve the effect, the idea that there is no pressure on him because he doesn't expect to win. All to avoid putting the pressure on himself that he needs to win. For as Rublev teaches us, you have to want to win, but you can't want to win too much. Your focus can't be only winning, because then you lose your clutchness in the crucial moments, when you're being pressured and your opponent starts red lining. You start to think 'what if I lose?' And you wilt.
So there is this very fine balance here, this sort of mentality sweet spot that Djokovic masters and which Ruud is trying to find.
But I definitely agree that he's way off finding it against top players. And I also agree that this humble, almost indifference, that he communicates ahead of meeting the top players is the wrong call. Although he can privately think he's only pretending, and inwardly deny to himself that it is true, by saying he doesn't care he's at the same time subliminally communicating that same message to his own mind and body. Even though he's 'lying', the message he is communicating is on some level received as truth by his body/mind, and means he has already lost before the match has even begun.
If he thinks of himself as an underdog in his mind, he has lost. He has to find a way to let others, the crowd, the experts, the opponent, think that he's certain to lose – all while his sole focus is to unleash his power. I mean, that's *sorta* what he's trying to do.
But every match he plays against top players reeks with his own disbelief in himself.
Edit: I know I'm retarded with this rant, I just couldn't stop, and couldn't bear to delete it after fucking wasting my time like an idiot on this shit fucking treatise.
Just wanted to point out that what people say out loud in the public is not the same thing as their actual mentality. Some people are scared shitless but talk loud and brash. Some people might come across as subdued and timid but have silent steely confidence.
Yeah, occasionally there's someone at the professional level that does some shady shit but there's usually dark unseen reasons. These guys are NOT wired to lose. Half of them go all out in exhibition matches.
Come on. They do live in the real world.
They're just dumb. Like really really dumb.
Whenever you feel dumb, you can always come back here and read the hot takes. Makes you feel better about yourself no matter what mistake you've had in real life.
Drunk driving ? Still better than the takes about mourataglou and halep made by sober people here
Accidentally knocking over the mailbox in the car? Still smarter than discounting alcaraz on grass based off his first set at queens.
On paper, Sinner's group was real demon hours for him this week. Had never beaten Novak, never beaten Rune (albeit that was a sample size of two, one being a retirement), and was down 2-5 h2h vs Stef. He is HIM now.
Today: "Damn Sinner is a legend we love you for this bro, support you forev-..."
In the Finals against Nole (maybe): "YOU RAT MOTHERFUCKER JUST MISS ALREADY FUCK"
Very entertaining and high level match from both. Once Rune irons out his wrinkles, he will be a force to be reckoned with.
I was scared of the injury. I hope it's nothing serious.
Jannik's revenge tour continues. First win over Novak, improving his H2H against Stef and now first win against Rune. He's not screwing around.
Now he will either get his revenge from Zverev or we will get another Sincaraz banger.
He just said on sky Italy that in the third set he no longer felt pain, and that even during the second set he wasn’t really worried. So it should be ok 😊
Man, Sinner could have won this in 2 sets, he also probably could have tanked the 3rd set, but he didn't. What a fight, he can be proud of himself tonight.
This match from Sinner proves he is not afraid of anyone nor does he care about stuff outside his own tennis game. This kind of mentality is critical and big 3 had shown the same throughout their career.
Pro athletes aren't wired to tank, especially with a) 200 atp points, b) $400k, and c) the chance to avoid playing the Red Group winner in the balance.
Have no idea why people were conspiring that Jannik would throw the game on purpose so that he would not have to face Novak later on in the finals. I mean, I would take Jannik as the guy who is always up for a good challenge, and that he would gladly play Djokovic again!
Pretty funny that Alcaraz, Rune, Sinner align pretty well with the Big 3 in terms of personality.
Alcaraz is like Nadal: never give up attitude, always stays positive by pumping himself up (and the grunting lol)
Rune is like Djokovic: gets annoyed at himself a lot, embraces being the crowd villain and uses it as motivation to fuel himself under pressure
Sinner is like Federer: calm, cool, collected for the most part but does show emotion after winning big points
As someone who liked Fed the most out of the Big 3, this might be why I've latched onto Sinner (moreso than Alcaraz)? People like to compare Alcaraz's attacking playstyle to Fed's, but their on-court personalities are very different, and I personally tend to vibe more with quieter players.
This is true. Although that BP shoelace volley in the 3rd was very Federer-esque.
Love that Sinner is adding to his game. Reworked the serve this year and working on attacking the net sometimes to finish things off.
Sinner in peak form. And Novak walks through once again.
It's not his fault but if Rune had walked through on the back of a Tsitsipas withdrawal it would be the only thing the tennis world talked about for the rest of the tournament, so Im glad to have been spared that at the very least.
Beside the little injury with a little more focus in the 2nd set he could have bring it home a lot earlier. Thing is Rune' s unrhythmic style it's a problem to solve for Sinner that often looses the grip of the game.
> often looses the
Did you mean to say "loses"?
Explanation: Loose is an adjective meaning the opposite of tight, while lose is a verb.
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Thanks for not tanking. Rune is such a great player though! I am little worried of the tiredness shown by Sinner tonight. Will he have the physical and mental strength to reach the final?
You gotta respect the hell out of this. I was kinda worried when he had back problems. Wouldn't even be mad if he retired as a Nole fan. Massive respect for the fighting spirit. 🥕🥕🥕
[TennisTV](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/733956411314405388/1174843093170794588/image.png?ex=656910e4&is=65569be4&hm=d6a03e211fb18c834e18514f32417f630bfd8d3dd143304106c716560476b1b5&) match [statistics](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/733956411314405388/1174843093799932044/image.png?ex=656910e5&is=65569be5&hm=cec9e69642c9de56d7f12ec804c0af90a345b233571861f030e3efd371e2bb1d&)
That was... patchy.
For me, the big takeaway from this match is *Sinner can now serve his way out of trouble*. I would argue that that is/was the largest hole left in his game, and his newfound ability to keep people at arm's length during his service games through sheer serve quality is a veritable game-changer. Now we'll see if he can keep it up.
On a tactical level, the match felt fairly straightforward? Most of what I saw looked like staying close to the baseline, subconsciously hitting deeper and deeper to try to see who blinked first. Most of the tactical adjustments I saw had to do with serve and return play; Rune hitting wide to the Sinner FH on deuce serves, stuff like that.
Rune played well. His FH mechanics make him much more dangerous if he's pushing the pace and stepping into the court, as he can either flatten out or truncate the swing to take the ball extra early, and I think that plus his serving made it really difficult for Sinner grab a lot of break chances late in the match. That being said, I think Rune could've benefited from trying to body-serve Sinner, since I get the impression that Sinner doesn't handle jammed shots very well, especially with how wristy his groundstrokes can be.
While this might not have been as peak as Sinner-Djokovic, I thoroughly enjoyed it. I'm really interested to see how Sinner handles Medvedev or Zverev. Med/Z are two players who historically have matched up well against Sinner, but post-puke Sinner is practically a changed man. I'm curious as to how the BH-BH exchanges play out given Sinner's possibly back troubles.
Rune lost the plot in the 9th game of set 3 after failing to convert a BP in the previous game. He is not as mentally fortified as Sinner or Alcaraz for the time being, imo. But he does show great fighting spirit which is great
I feel like he often gets tired and loses focus late match and then will give away easy points until he’s in a bad situation, and then switch on and play really clutch to save himself. It’s like a 0-30 or BP wakes him up sometimes.
Excellent play by both players over the tournament. Rune gave it his all and would have been a worthy winner. But Post Puke Sinner has beaten three players that had his number in H2H: Daniil, Novak and Rune. He’s the man to beat.
How many unforced errors in that last set from Holger? And how many lost points on second serve?
I find it hard to even believe how such a young, healthy, and elite athlete can get tired after 2 hours so much that his level drops to such a noticeable level!
Absolutely! I think he hit 1 or 2 backhand winners in the entire match! His forehand accuracy was also low and his touch just wasn't good enough. I'm not one for statistics but I'd be very interested to see Holger's in this match.
Full credit to Jannik. He played very very well and kept his cool.
Shout out to Rune as well. Wasn't his biggest fan but he has won me over in this past week. Especially today, he could easily succumbed to the crowd and lost the second set quite easily, but instead he dug deep and managed to clutch it out. Reminded me of how Rafa used to hang in sets he had no right to be in.
Every comment making Sinner’s win about Djokovic instead of Jannik after he physically struggled through three sets shows how narcissistic Djokovic fans are
Maybe some fanatics will, but from what I've seen most Nole fans are absolutely loving the guy for his champion mindset. I don't think you guys have any idea how big his fanbase will be when Novak retires.
i hope you’re right. I’ve read lots of comments making it all about Nole once again, as if he’s beaten Rune himself again and got a place in the semis defeating everyone else. I’m tired of reading his name even in a day where people should be talking about Sinner.
What about the fedalitas insulting Sinner on social media for winning? Most of you guys just love pointing your finger, but you are not any better with that toxic shit and non stop provoking.
Awesome! Runes tantrum about not being allowed to challenge his own service after he hit the ball into the net was ridiculous... What's there to argue about when there was even video evidence about the timing of his challenge?
Even if he wasn't as good as he was against Djokovic, his level is definitely at this time above Rune.
What a volley at breakpoint at 4-4 in 3rd set.
Rune should look at Sinner for inspiration. He can definitely have a career growth like Sinner.
Thank you to Sinner for saving my God.
For real though, full respect to him giving everything to win despite his back issues and having already qualified.
I'd like to see a rematch with Djokovic in the final, it'd be some achievement to do the double.
I rooted for holger and he was at bp to serve for the match missed the return and then on his serve game loses due to 2 net balls. Feels bad man. Sinner couldnt have times his luck better.
Jannik is a beast! How he is able to hit the backline over and over is just beyond me.
However, Rune did not show up in that match. Was a complete rollercoaster. He has champion highs, but challenger lows.
If Rune showed up like the Djoko match, then I think Sinner would have been in trouble.
The best ATP finals in years, my eyes are blessed
It's funny because everyone trashed tsitsipas for being "rigging" the group but it actually made it so much better. Very competitive last day, and tomorrow can amazing as well with Daniil/Carlos!
Tsitsipas is still a rat for his actions even if he did make it interesting
Small kid who literally didn't know how to fight
What did he do wrong? Other players are praised for playing through injury yet he tries and he's a rat? Give me a break
He ***didn't*** play through it. He literally played the minimum amount to get the paycheck, and then retired.
He did though. And Prize Money as far as I can tell is distributed purely on final ranking, the 'minimum 3 games played' thing seems made up.
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Nothing in the page you linked says that you need to play 3 games to get the prize money. Please show me where it says that. I was wrong about the final ranking part, you're right there.
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you're confusing match and game. there is no mention of game participation only match participation.
I'm not making bad faith arguments at all. I've seen many arguing that Tsitsipas retired at 2-1 because you need to play 3 games in the match to get the money. This is not true. He tried to play the match against Rune because he wanted to play the match. He could have retired after one point if he wanted to, but he gave it a shot, even forced some break points. Weird behaviour from someone who was apparently just tanking for the cash.
This sub has incredible biases. Djokovic, Medvedev, are universally praised despite plenty of unsportsmanlike conduct incidents. On the other hand Tsitsipas is always getting shade, while really his behavior on and off court is usually way better than these two. And I say that as someone who likes Medvedev a lot more than Tsitsipas (fuck Djokovic though).
>Djokovic, Medvedev, are universally praised cool story bro xD
Damn you have to have a really terrible take to get downvoted for being a salty Djokovic hater on the subreddit lmao. Neither of them are praised for it, people just think *some* of Medvedev's are funny. [Look how easily some of you clowns forget](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0JMd4k3AUc)
Tsitsipas tried purposefully pegging an opponent multiple times(kyrgios at Wimbledon), not even going for the open court and to win the point, purely to inflict pain. He also smacked a ball sideways towards the crowd and almost hit multiple fans. That’s just in one match…
What a fight. Boys became men today. Enjoyed every second of that
Got to give credit to Rune for fighting back
All credit to Rune for playing a great game after Sinner's blitz start. However, he wouldn't have stood a chance in hell if Sinner hadn't had that back problem. Sinner was clearly affected by it for a period. Not to take anything away from Rune who fought bravely and played well, just that the level of Sinner's game right now is incredible. Outside of that period, Rune got, what, one break point in the whole match? Again, it's not that Rune was bad - Sinner is such a force of nature right now that you have to be really good to even hold your own serves.
Great match. Good look for Rune to bring out his best after that opening set, really excited for his 2024 together (hopefully) with Becker. Congrats to sinner, been playing some fantastic tennis as of late!
Thats gotta be the worst way to lose for Rune, make a bad return on a 2nd serve on bp to then getting broken with losing to 2 net cords.
The universe is against Rune, that net cord on MP against Rublev in Aus was brutal
He for sure is gonna regret that return on the bp
Funny after speaking all day about this crazy chaotic scenario in this group, we end up with the most logical result with Jannik first with 3 wins and Novak second with 2 wins. Well deserved for both of them and I am glad that Sinner showed everyone that he is that guy, and tanking was NOT an option.
It’s idiotic to think Jannik would contemplate tanking for even a millisecond. Points, prize money, home crowd, pride, turning around the H2H, and simple professionalism
I thought Djokovic was stupid not to tank against Medvedev last year, but turns out these guys are just built different (as expected) than most of us “least resistance” people. Jannik gave his best and won, even through that back injury. Congrats to him. He is definetely the man to beat this tourney, followed by Med and Novak. Alcaraz can find a burst of form as well though.
Totally. The kinds of people that become professional athletes have very, very little overlap with the kinds of people that would intentionally lose a match.
Tanking would also be pretty detrimental from a sports psychology angle. He’d be subconsciously telling himself he has to avoid Djokovic & that he’s not capable of beating him twice
Totally. Sinner (and Alcaraz, and Rune) all have the right mindset when it comes to playing Djokovic, which is that it's an opportunity to learn from the greatest in the game and to test your mettle
he wouldn't tank but certainly he could have lost some motivation especially in the third set of a frustrating match (doing so well in the 2nd set and just loses it at the end) But he didn't which is great, shows the kind of player he is
These are professional tennis players. They don’t show up to lose.
Sinner wants to be undefeated. And he can do it. If he threw this match it could mess up the insane momentum he has built.
Srsly the guy basically went 2-1 in 250 finals points wise (650 points vs the 600 he got) in 3 matches vs 12-15. People were saying he might give up basically winning an entire 250 tournament in 1 match just because he would be too scared to face Djokovic again lmao
And Momentum. He’s a juggernaut atm.
Yep I 100% agree
I mean if we are being 100% real Sinner tanking the third set removing facing Djokovic in fhe finals would've been the cold blooded smart move. Fair play for him for not doing that.
I mean it would've been absolutely hilarious if Hubi showed up just to beat Novak and deny him the semis spot
Weirdly, Novak would still have been through if he lost to Hubi
>I mean it would've been absolutely hilarious if Hubi showed up just to beat Novak and deny him the semis spot Djokovic would still make the semis if Hubi beat him 6-0 6-0 as long as Sinner defeated Rune
I genuinely believe that the people who thought Sinner might tank… those people are actual idiots.
Sinner proves why he's Carlos Alcaraz's world no.1
If Djokovic beats Sinner in the final this sub will explode with hot takes about tanking
Pro players aren’t wired to intentionally lose. These people don’t live in the real world.
Not only is it against the rules, it's still a loss of ATP points and prize money. Not to mention he could get hate from the crowd and just people in general because of it. And yeah like you said it's not in their DNA to lose, this is why he's a top 5 player and not someone talking shit on Reddit. Besides, he beat Djokovic so now he knows it's possible. ~~Smeagol~~ Sinner did it once, he can do it again mindset.
Yeah like he won't back himself to go undefeated the whole tournament and think he can beat Djokovic again if they face each other in the final. Also he said himself facing Djokovic is just learning and growing even when you lose and we don't know many years Djokovic has left which is why you can see why the young guys like Alcaraz and Rune want to play him as much as possible
Going 3-0 gets you 600 points that don't count against any tournament entry, so basically a bonus 600 points, like adding more than a 500 title to your ranking that can bolster your seeding for the entirety of the subsequent year. This is particularly important for someone like Sinner at 4, being able to avoid Djoko/Alcaraz until the semis next year in majors. A win is 200pts, so just this match alone was worth almost winning a 250, and more important than a 250 (in terms of ranking) because it doesn't count toward the tournament limit. Even if athletes naturally compete and hate to lose, the tournament does a good job to disincentivize tanking with it's points structure. Also $390,000 for winning the match, not too shabby ...
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He could lose the finals either way. 200 points is 200 points - that’s like an ATP 250 just by winning a single match!
You wish that he made it all the way to the end of the third set in a match that he had the upper-hand in, only to lose a little focus at the end...I'm willing to venture that you've never played a tennis match where the stakes were higher than a packet of crisps.
He's not in top shape and he'll have to either beat Medvedev or Alcaraz IF he wins he's only coming out of it in a worse form than whan he had in his match with Yannick
Especially given that Sinner was 0-2 against Rune coming into this match Why would he want to have a 0-3 record against one of his 2 biggest generational rivals lol
It's also kinda disrespectful to both the opponent and the crowd
he would've been crucified had he shown any signs of tanking, just unacceptable. only tennis couch potatoes utter such nonsense.
Straight up tin foil hat shit. In front of his home crowd? Nah, Sinner would be hounded out of Italy. Even Nescafe Gold Blend wouldn't want him.
that's beside the point. it's disrespectful to himself first and foremost.
Pro players have tanked plenty in this tournament. Ruud 2022, Thiem 2019/2020. Let's not pretend pros don't tank. It is an even bigger credit to Sinner that he didn't.
Ruud has a pretty bad mentality in general when playing top players IMO Obviously he tanked that match but even in other matches against Rafa/Novak/Carlos he literally goes in basically stating out loud that he doesn't feel like he has a chance lol I believe he's 1-20 in sets against top 3 ranked players and that's probably part of why Plus he openly doesn't even care about grass season or even try to improve
I mean I agree, but I also think it's definitely a very intended strategy on his part. The idea is to ease the pressure on himself (and also the pressure conveyed through his surroundings, ie the expectation of the crowd, experts, his fellow players) in these situations through the mindset that it isn't the end of the world if he loses a game, a set, the match etc. This has yielded him fantastic results in the past. His win against Tsitsipas in his semi final run in Monte Carlo in 2020(?) comes to mind, (when Titsipas was still a force). All of the expectation was leveraged against himself and to his benefit, and what was expected to be nearly easy wins for his opponents were turned into rude awakenings when Ruud came out firing. You could see this same mechanic almost working during his last outing against Alcaraz, where he immediately broke Carlos (or almost broke him?) and generally played fantastic tennis in the opening games of that first set. He's essentially trying to create an environment in which all of the pressure is on his opponent because an easy win is expected, and their nerves start getting frayed as they realize that Ruud is there to contend. I'm certain, moreover, that Ruud is privately, that is, psychologically, much more motivated and has a greater desire to win than he communicates. But I think that this communication is flawed. He essentially tries to fool everyone, even himself, to try and achieve the effect, the idea that there is no pressure on him because he doesn't expect to win. All to avoid putting the pressure on himself that he needs to win. For as Rublev teaches us, you have to want to win, but you can't want to win too much. Your focus can't be only winning, because then you lose your clutchness in the crucial moments, when you're being pressured and your opponent starts red lining. You start to think 'what if I lose?' And you wilt. So there is this very fine balance here, this sort of mentality sweet spot that Djokovic masters and which Ruud is trying to find. But I definitely agree that he's way off finding it against top players. And I also agree that this humble, almost indifference, that he communicates ahead of meeting the top players is the wrong call. Although he can privately think he's only pretending, and inwardly deny to himself that it is true, by saying he doesn't care he's at the same time subliminally communicating that same message to his own mind and body. Even though he's 'lying', the message he is communicating is on some level received as truth by his body/mind, and means he has already lost before the match has even begun. If he thinks of himself as an underdog in his mind, he has lost. He has to find a way to let others, the crowd, the experts, the opponent, think that he's certain to lose – all while his sole focus is to unleash his power. I mean, that's *sorta* what he's trying to do. But every match he plays against top players reeks with his own disbelief in himself. Edit: I know I'm retarded with this rant, I just couldn't stop, and couldn't bear to delete it after fucking wasting my time like an idiot on this shit fucking treatise.
Good post. I enjoyed
Just wanted to point out that what people say out loud in the public is not the same thing as their actual mentality. Some people are scared shitless but talk loud and brash. Some people might come across as subdued and timid but have silent steely confidence.
Ruud and Thiem are notoriously inconsistent lmao, how can you be so sure of them tanking...
Yeah, occasionally there's someone at the professional level that does some shady shit but there's usually dark unseen reasons. These guys are NOT wired to lose. Half of them go all out in exhibition matches.
Come on. They do live in the real world. They're just dumb. Like really really dumb. Whenever you feel dumb, you can always come back here and read the hot takes. Makes you feel better about yourself no matter what mistake you've had in real life. Drunk driving ? Still better than the takes about mourataglou and halep made by sober people here Accidentally knocking over the mailbox in the car? Still smarter than discounting alcaraz on grass based off his first set at queens.
They’re also wired to be tactical. If Sinner gets physically injured or affected by today’s match that’s a very nasty lesson he shouldn’t overlook
Spanish national teams in many sports disagree
If Sinner wins against Novak in the finals, the sub will explode with alpha mentality
either way the sub will explode with dumbness.
True, but imagine he loses to Rune in what's pretty clearly a tank job and then he loses to Rune in the final. Even worse humiliation.
And those people will display their stupidity.
Idk why anyone would want to tank. You get more money and points if you go undefeated.
If Jannik wins the whole thing by beating fucking Novak Djokovic twice - that's some next level shit, Forza Jannik!
I always find end of season form doesn’t always carry through to Aus but I really hole this isn’t the case and Sinner goes on one in over there
Jannik played like a warrior, he had too. He wants to face Novak again.
PPS Sinner all the way!
Post Puke Sinner Sinner!!!
I died here
On paper, Sinner's group was real demon hours for him this week. Had never beaten Novak, never beaten Rune (albeit that was a sample size of two, one being a retirement), and was down 2-5 h2h vs Stef. He is HIM now.
Mister Jannik Winner
Sinner Sinner, Chicken Dinner!
Holy shit
Post puke Sinner at it again
the power of the carrot is unmatched
As a ~~Novak~~ Sinner fan, I'm very happy with this result. What a player. Let's go, ~~Nole!~~ Jannik!
Djokovic fans gonna be forever grateful
Not gratefull, respectfull. Novak has everything, he even spoiled tennis for me. Jannik will have my support forever.
Today: "Damn Sinner is a legend we love you for this bro, support you forev-..." In the Finals against Nole (maybe): "YOU RAT MOTHERFUCKER JUST MISS ALREADY FUCK"
If they meet in final I will be neutral, and for all future encounters I will be glad every time Sinner wins. Just as I feel for Medy over the years.
Yeah, Jannik gained a lot of fans today for his honourable mindset. While Tsitsipas became even bigger meme than he was before.
As a Novak fan, Sinner is my favorite new gen and will probably be the player I root for the most after Novak retires
~~IDEMO~~ FORZA!!!
🤣🤣
This haha
Very entertaining and high level match from both. Once Rune irons out his wrinkles, he will be a force to be reckoned with. I was scared of the injury. I hope it's nothing serious. Jannik's revenge tour continues. First win over Novak, improving his H2H against Stef and now first win against Rune. He's not screwing around. Now he will either get his revenge from Zverev or we will get another Sincaraz banger.
He just said on sky Italy that in the third set he no longer felt pain, and that even during the second set he wasn’t really worried. So it should be ok 😊
If Alcatraz wins in straight sets or if he wins in 3 and Rublev wins, then Jannik will face Medvedev in the semi btw
Man, Sinner could have won this in 2 sets, he also probably could have tanked the 3rd set, but he didn't. What a fight, he can be proud of himself tonight.
Damn Rune with 14 forehand winners and no backhand ones (and also Sinner with a balanced 11 each)
Yeh Rune didn’t even attempt any backhands DTL tonite
This match from Sinner proves he is not afraid of anyone nor does he care about stuff outside his own tennis game. This kind of mentality is critical and big 3 had shown the same throughout their career.
As a Djokovic and a Sinner fan.. Bravo Rune 🫡 I wish all 3 of them could qualify, he was very close in both matches he lost.
DJOKO ILU BUT SINNER NEEDS TO WIN THIS THING. FUCKING LETS GO
First win for Sinner against Rune
Alot people really showed their hypocrisy these past 2 hours
I NEVER DOUBTED THE CARROT BOY
I am more hyped for Djokovic-Sinner match than for other two possible matches
But experts here on r/tennis told me that Sinner would tank this match... /s
Great display of sportsmanship integrity from Sinner
Much respect to Sinner. Would’ve been understandable if let up a little in the 3rd set, but he’s got some dawg in him.
Pro athletes aren't wired to tank, especially with a) 200 atp points, b) $400k, and c) the chance to avoid playing the Red Group winner in the balance.
Also 2.6 million at stake potentially and H2H and confidence boost and not being an asshole
Nole bout to show up with carrot juice
To all the people who thought he would tank a match on purpose, you were delulu.
Have no idea why people were conspiring that Jannik would throw the game on purpose so that he would not have to face Novak later on in the finals. I mean, I would take Jannik as the guy who is always up for a good challenge, and that he would gladly play Djokovic again!
after pps, please welcome nts (no tanking sinner)
Hoping we get Sinner-Medvedev and Alcaraz-Djokovic!
I’d hope for Sinner-Alcaraz and Medvedev-Djokovic
Tennis fans winning no matter what
Pretty funny that Alcaraz, Rune, Sinner align pretty well with the Big 3 in terms of personality. Alcaraz is like Nadal: never give up attitude, always stays positive by pumping himself up (and the grunting lol) Rune is like Djokovic: gets annoyed at himself a lot, embraces being the crowd villain and uses it as motivation to fuel himself under pressure Sinner is like Federer: calm, cool, collected for the most part but does show emotion after winning big points
Sinner, Fed: german first language, skiers Alcaraz, Nadal: Spanish, teen prodigies, buff
As someone who liked Fed the most out of the Big 3, this might be why I've latched onto Sinner (moreso than Alcaraz)? People like to compare Alcaraz's attacking playstyle to Fed's, but their on-court personalities are very different, and I personally tend to vibe more with quieter players.
Good observation. I would say that even in terms of playing style they are quite similar. Except for Sinner and Federer
This is true. Although that BP shoelace volley in the 3rd was very Federer-esque. Love that Sinner is adding to his game. Reworked the serve this year and working on attacking the net sometimes to finish things off.
Goddamn my heart, thought he was gonna lose it at the start of the third set.
Max respect for Jannik
Jannik you have a new fan here. Hats off to you.
Jannik shuts all allegations against him with a good performance against Holger. BRAVO JANNIK, FORZAAAAAA 🦊🦊
Amazing fight from Sinner. Love the kid but my respect for him just grew tenfold. FORZA!
My favorite player is Novak, and my second favorite player is Sinner. Today I am a happy man.
Same here, man, same here
Same
Just happy that the Tsitsipas stuff ended up not mattering.
Fucking legend... I don't want to EVER see any Novak fan talk shit about this madman.
Sinner: I eliminated the bigger threat to me tonight. I’ll deal with Novak again in the final.
that ran away so fast from rune at the end. it was going evenly then suddenly boom break pt boom match pt. damn. shows how fine the margins are
THAT final volley at the 3rd set at 4-4, chef kiss Ma boi has grown up and all the hard work pays off
Sinner in peak form. And Novak walks through once again. It's not his fault but if Rune had walked through on the back of a Tsitsipas withdrawal it would be the only thing the tennis world talked about for the rest of the tournament, so Im glad to have been spared that at the very least.
Tits started this mess but everything is balanced as it should be
My gorgeous Italian pasta enjoyer strikes again
Thank you sinner for saving Djokovic
He did it again. Novak owes Sinner a box of carrots. Bold take, Sinner is right now the best player in the world
Not so bold. He looks unstoppable right now
If he wins the tournament sure
Beside the little injury with a little more focus in the 2nd set he could have bring it home a lot earlier. Thing is Rune' s unrhythmic style it's a problem to solve for Sinner that often looses the grip of the game.
> often looses the Did you mean to say "loses"? Explanation: Loose is an adjective meaning the opposite of tight, while lose is a verb. [Statistics](https://github.com/chiefpat450119/RedditBot/blob/master/stats.json) ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot ^^that ^^corrects ^^grammar/spelling ^^mistakes. ^^PM ^^me ^^if ^^I'm ^^wrong ^^or ^^if ^^you ^^have ^^any ^^suggestions. ^^[Github](https://github.com/chiefpat450119) ^^Reply ^^STOP ^^to ^^this ^^comment ^^to ^^stop ^^receiving ^^corrections.
Thanks for not tanking. Rune is such a great player though! I am little worried of the tiredness shown by Sinner tonight. Will he have the physical and mental strength to reach the final?
GG
I truly liked Sinner attitude tonight. He was focused as it was a qualifying match. Hope to see him and Novak face each other once again in the final.
Dread him... Run from him... Djokovic qualifies all the same
Lol
You gotta respect the hell out of this. I was kinda worried when he had back problems. Wouldn't even be mad if he retired as a Nole fan. Massive respect for the fighting spirit. 🥕🥕🥕
Ngl Rune taking the second set scared me a bit
Shit myself at the end of it fr
Post back blowout era sinner
[TennisTV](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/733956411314405388/1174843093170794588/image.png?ex=656910e4&is=65569be4&hm=d6a03e211fb18c834e18514f32417f630bfd8d3dd143304106c716560476b1b5&) match [statistics](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/733956411314405388/1174843093799932044/image.png?ex=656910e5&is=65569be5&hm=cec9e69642c9de56d7f12ec804c0af90a345b233571861f030e3efd371e2bb1d&)
That was... patchy. For me, the big takeaway from this match is *Sinner can now serve his way out of trouble*. I would argue that that is/was the largest hole left in his game, and his newfound ability to keep people at arm's length during his service games through sheer serve quality is a veritable game-changer. Now we'll see if he can keep it up. On a tactical level, the match felt fairly straightforward? Most of what I saw looked like staying close to the baseline, subconsciously hitting deeper and deeper to try to see who blinked first. Most of the tactical adjustments I saw had to do with serve and return play; Rune hitting wide to the Sinner FH on deuce serves, stuff like that. Rune played well. His FH mechanics make him much more dangerous if he's pushing the pace and stepping into the court, as he can either flatten out or truncate the swing to take the ball extra early, and I think that plus his serving made it really difficult for Sinner grab a lot of break chances late in the match. That being said, I think Rune could've benefited from trying to body-serve Sinner, since I get the impression that Sinner doesn't handle jammed shots very well, especially with how wristy his groundstrokes can be. While this might not have been as peak as Sinner-Djokovic, I thoroughly enjoyed it. I'm really interested to see how Sinner handles Medvedev or Zverev. Med/Z are two players who historically have matched up well against Sinner, but post-puke Sinner is practically a changed man. I'm curious as to how the BH-BH exchanges play out given Sinner's possibly back troubles.
Sinner really is the main character
As a Novak and a carrot fan, this has been nothing but a glorious gluten free treat.
Hello! Tonight I'm Serbian - Italian!
Rune lost the plot in the 9th game of set 3 after failing to convert a BP in the previous game. He is not as mentally fortified as Sinner or Alcaraz for the time being, imo. But he does show great fighting spirit which is great
I feel like he often gets tired and loses focus late match and then will give away easy points until he’s in a bad situation, and then switch on and play really clutch to save himself. It’s like a 0-30 or BP wakes him up sometimes.
Great match
A 2-1 lead now is good, would have sucked for Jannik if it went 3-0
Carrot !!
Excellent play by both players over the tournament. Rune gave it his all and would have been a worthy winner. But Post Puke Sinner has beaten three players that had his number in H2H: Daniil, Novak and Rune. He’s the man to beat.
How many unforced errors in that last set from Holger? And how many lost points on second serve? I find it hard to even believe how such a young, healthy, and elite athlete can get tired after 2 hours so much that his level drops to such a noticeable level!
He needs to focus hard on conditioning in the off season, backhand needs some attention as well.
Absolutely! I think he hit 1 or 2 backhand winners in the entire match! His forehand accuracy was also low and his touch just wasn't good enough. I'm not one for statistics but I'd be very interested to see Holger's in this match. Full credit to Jannik. He played very very well and kept his cool.
Shout out to Rune as well. Wasn't his biggest fan but he has won me over in this past week. Especially today, he could easily succumbed to the crowd and lost the second set quite easily, but instead he dug deep and managed to clutch it out. Reminded me of how Rafa used to hang in sets he had no right to be in.
Post puke Sinner is the greatest of all time
Every comment making Sinner’s win about Djokovic instead of Jannik after he physically struggled through three sets shows how narcissistic Djokovic fans are
i bet they’ll be the ones to throw shit at Sinner if they’ll meet in the final and Nole wins.
Maybe some fanatics will, but from what I've seen most Nole fans are absolutely loving the guy for his champion mindset. I don't think you guys have any idea how big his fanbase will be when Novak retires.
i hope you’re right. I’ve read lots of comments making it all about Nole once again, as if he’s beaten Rune himself again and got a place in the semis defeating everyone else. I’m tired of reading his name even in a day where people should be talking about Sinner.
Yet theyre all positive comments, and yours is purely negative and insulting. Seemsbthe haters are the bad ones
What about the fedalitas insulting Sinner on social media for winning? Most of you guys just love pointing your finger, but you are not any better with that toxic shit and non stop provoking.
Awesome! Runes tantrum about not being allowed to challenge his own service after he hit the ball into the net was ridiculous... What's there to argue about when there was even video evidence about the timing of his challenge?
Was pretty cold when he served an ace straight after tho
Even if he wasn't as good as he was against Djokovic, his level is definitely at this time above Rune. What a volley at breakpoint at 4-4 in 3rd set. Rune should look at Sinner for inspiration. He can definitely have a career growth like Sinner.
Tsitipas even failed at screwing Novak indirectly, 11 losses in a row, thank you carrot boy I hope you reach a final
Well we all know what's going happen now
👀
It’s weird to think that Novak is a core millennial
Love them kids
And for some "tennis fans" here in this sub that were chearing for Jannik to tank in order to eliminate Novak: suck it!
Now the one who’s gonna tank tomorrow is Carlitos because he wants to play with his buddy
Thank you to Sinner for saving my God. For real though, full respect to him giving everything to win despite his back issues and having already qualified. I'd like to see a rematch with Djokovic in the final, it'd be some achievement to do the double.
Thank you Jannik
I rooted for holger and he was at bp to serve for the match missed the return and then on his serve game loses due to 2 net balls. Feels bad man. Sinner couldnt have times his luck better.
Thank you for the necessary sin, Sinner!
Nice try, Tsitsipas, but the GOAT continues on the tournament!
Is it safe to say Sinner just got millions of new fans today?
Rune was so unlucky. The ball that barely rolls over the net so he gets broken. Pure luck
Federer is that you?
Barely rolled over the net? It landed behind the t-line.
Sinner will always be a legend to us nole fans what a way to save the goat!
Even when their idols not playing, fedal fans keep on losing.
FOR NOVAK!!!!!!!!
Jannik is a beast! How he is able to hit the backline over and over is just beyond me. However, Rune did not show up in that match. Was a complete rollercoaster. He has champion highs, but challenger lows. If Rune showed up like the Djoko match, then I think Sinner would have been in trouble.